The Tennessee legislature has passed a bill which would allow parents who hold anti-LGBTQ+ views to adopt LGBTQ+ children.
Typically, parents who hold beliefs that contradict the identities of children up for adoption can be deemed unfit for a match.
But the new law would prohibit adoption groups from discriminating against potential adoptive parents for their religious beliefs about sexual orientation or gender identity.
The bill now heads to the governor's desk for signing.
Faith groups rejoiced, calling the move another step forward for religious rights in Tennessee.
Meanwhile, LGBTQ+ rights advocates in the state are incensed, arguing that the bill puts the lives and livelihoods of LGBTQ+ kids at risk by potentially placing them with non-affirming parents.
Does This Help Kids?
Should Senate Bill 1738 be signed into law, adoptive services would be prohibited from “[establishing] a standard, rule, or policy that precludes consideration of a parent for a placement based, in whole or in part, upon the parent's sincerely held religious or moral beliefs regarding sexual orientation or gender identity.”
“Such beliefs do not create a presumption that any particular placement is contrary to the best interest of the child,” it reads.
In other words: adoptive services cannot prevent anti-gay parents from adopting gay kids. It's in contrast to many other states, which bar anti-LGBTQ+ parents from adopting LGBTQ+ children for fear they will be discriminated against by their adoptive parents.
Nevertheless, supporters argue that the bill will actually benefit LGBTQ+ kids. As bill co-sponsor State Rep. Mary Littleton put it:
“Every child deserves a home where their health and well-being are supported in a positive way. Forcing a foster parent to affirm the idea that a child – who is already vulnerable and in distress – was born in the wrong body or is flawed is extremely harmful and misguided. My hope is that this bill increases successful placements and lowers re-placements within the DCS system. Imposing ideological litmus tests as other states have done, is unjust to [adoptive] parents, and needlessly limits the pool of available families, and is the exact opposite of what kids in the foster system need.
Legislating Discrimination?
Not everyone is convinced this bill was crafted with the best intentions of LGBTQ+ kids in mind.
Tennessee State Rep. Justin Jones of Nashville delivered an impassioned speech against the bill on the House floor, arguing that the bill is simply anti-LGBTQ+ discrimination “cloaked under the guise of religion.”
“This bill says that children can be placed in environments that are hostile to them, that they are not affirmed, that they are not welcome, that they are not treated with dignity because of who they love or how they identify,” he argued. “This is just trying to legislate discrimination.”
“I just think that you shouldn’t be able to deny somebody’s basic existence because you say it affronts your religious or moral beliefs,” argued State Sen. Raumesh Akbari. “That is between you and your god. It should not be something that potentially makes a child feel unwelcome and challenges who they are to their very core.”
Critics have pointed to an earlier adoption-related law as proof that the Tennessee state legislature is discriminating against the gay community. In 2020, Tennessee passed a law which allowed adoption agencies in the state to legally discriminate against gay couples and deny them the right to adopt if allowing these adoptions would violate the agency's "religious or moral convinctions."
What do you think? Is the state wrongly imposing “ideological litmus tests” based on religious beliefs, as the bill’s sponsor argues?
Or does the state have a duty to ensure LGBTQ+ kids are placed with families that will affirm and support their identities?
186 comments
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Echo
Failure to see best interest of the child, lets instill bullying. That's the proper term for this. Letting parents bully children. Umm NO! Not on my watch!
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Lawrence A. Benson
Tennessee continues to receed back to the dark ages. Commom sense has completely disappeared from governing and the only "right" that's upheld is the "God Given Right" to carry a gun.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
In other words, they're now making it legal for parents to force LGBTQ+ teens to stay in homes that HATE them and are cruelly abusing them for being LGBTQ+
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Scott Smith
Back to the 1950s!
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Yep, complete with forced "Conversion Therapies" and "Exorcisms" that basically means the kids having the sh** beaten out of them day and night, and being told they are worthless and evil. And being told that they are "going to hell" and "need to conform".
This should be absolutely forbidden. That if they dislike LGBTQ+ individuals, they cannot adopt LGBTQ+ children.
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shiningwolf9
YES !!! THIS !
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Rev. Alyssa Cutler, Spiritual Healer
Exactly! They (the adopters), don't have to be part of the lgbtq+ community, but at least be supportive or accepting of who they are. Everyone should have the right & feel safe enough to live their life the way they see fit, as long as they're not causing harm to themselves or anyone else, & live their most authentic life.
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Michael Holland
Where is the reasoning in this decision? Why would Anti LGBTQ parents want to adopt a gay child, only to send it to deprogramming classes offered by your non descript church? This makes zero sense! This is a trainwreck waiting to happen!
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James Riggle-Johnson
@Michael, that is exactly what they want to do. They want to gay children to learn shame again. They want LGBTQ children to be erased. To put them back into the closet and close the door. It has nothing to do with religious freedom. It is simply another attempt to get rid of them. Once again, they think the can pray away the gay. It’s child abuse. They claim to be pro-life, but they don’t care what happens to the child after it’s born.
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Asa William Sprague, II
It does seem like discrimination. I mean, currently, Tennessee gives adoption agencies the right to only allow heterosexual adoptions for moral or religious reasons.
If this bill is meant to short circuit religious discrimination, I can't help but wonder why this new law does not prohibit adoption agencies from denying LGBTQ+ parents the right to adopt.
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Russel A. Kester
Ada, the difference I see is that in one situation the issue is the religious beliefs of individual persons and in the other it's those of religiously affiliated organizations. They're not quite the same though closely related.
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shiningwolf9
What ? Same thing ! Anti.... Usually are affiliated with a group/groups, including, and paramount, so called churches, and so called "christ-like" Cult followers.
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Michael Hunt
This is child abuse, clear and simple.
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Nathaniel Joseph Merritt
I'm sure these anti-LGBTQ would be parents say they are motivated by "God's Love" but I fail to see anything here but a dark desire to "fix" LGBTQ kids. This is a very bad idea by a clearly fundamentalist Tennessee legislature.
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James Thomas Mann III
I am motivated by the love of my children. Giving “rights “ concerning minors is dangerous ground.
I am anything but fundamentalist but what is possibly wrong with waiting until they are adults and have a much better understanding of themselves to make such decisions?
I am afraid that the children are being lost in a controversy caused by so many on every side with an axe to grind.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Did you wait until you were over 18, to discover or act upon your sexual identity? No, you didn't. Now please sit back and afford others the rights that you had.
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Danny D. Maynard
Only religious fanatic parents have an axe to grind and to chop!
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Theresa C. Marquess
Where would that be different from a home with anti-LGBTQ+ views having a biological child with LGBTQ+ tendencies? Let's not condem would-be adoptive parents just because of their philosophies. There are people with a great capacity for love that would overlook the child's propensity to be LGBTQ+. Children should be given every possible chance at adoption. It is far worse for them to linger alone and not have parents who would love them and encourage them to achieve all that they can. By the way, people, I am from Tennessee, I don't carry a gun, and I would never have turned away any child in need.
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Robert James Ruhnke
It’s far worse being raised by people who take every turn to invalidate your existence and do every mean thing in the book to “groom” a person straight. These anti-lgbtq+ shouldn’t be allowed to have their own kids, let alone someone else’s. What part of Anti-LGBTQ+ don’t you understand? It’s part of the “no love like Christian hate,” problem.
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Danny D. Maynard
Robert is correct!
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Theresa C. Marquess
What part of being an understanding, loving parent do you not understand? If I adopted a child, do you think that I would try to change it? If you do, you are as wrong as the days are long. My family of now grown children was a blended family. Our large family brought people of all persuasions to our table to sit down to eat meals with us and to stay under our roof. In all honesty, I don't think that I am the only Christian left who feels that people are entitled to be whatever they will be. I cared deeply for all of them, regardless of who or what they were or what they believed themselves to be. I would no more invalidate a person's existence or try to 'groom them to be straight!' I am not nor have I ever been prejudice..Yes, I am a Christian. Jesus preached to us to love one another...what kind of people would we be if we didn't follow His example and teachings. We wouldn't be able to call ourselves Christians. I'm a proud Christian who loves all of my family! You folks have the idea that being LGBTQ+ is viewed as a bad thing by straight people. Oh,my how wrong you are!
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Robert James Ruhnke
What people claim vs. how they really are will forever be two different situations. How you treat them vs. how someone else treats them won’t be the same either. PLUS. This is the internet idk you from Eve. An so far I’m not impressed. I give one counter example and you take it personal. Oh. And it’s not straight folks I have problem with. It’s straight conservative Christians who seek to control or erase LGBTQ+ people. We don’t need your saving, and we don’t need your Jesus. We just want to carve out lives for ourselves by our terms, not your religion's. Nothing more. I’ve read enough adoption and foster horror cases to turn your hair white, ma’am. One event the mother truly believed she was loving her children as she tortured them. It’s why I don’t trust adoptive eager beaver Christians who seek to convert more people against their will or their consent. Too often do you Christians use and misuse food and shelter as tools to recruit. I’m cautious ma’am. I have to be. Don’t take it too personally.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, you make a serious mistakes when you write what 'we' want or think or write on behalf of LGB persons. You are expressing your own personal views or thoughts not those of others, not even if they are contained in label you used to identify so many different types of persons. I am gay, and we disagree quite strongly on these issues. So, please, don't presume to speak on my behalf.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, you made no such disclaimer in your previous posts; therefore, you were trying to speak on behalf of an entire groups. It's nice to read that you are narrowing the scope of your comments, though even at that, you are not an authorized representative of even that smaller group. You may only speak for yourself or anyone who has given such agency to you. So the use of the word 'we' in your writings is still inappropriate and an illegitimate use of the word. The word your looking for is 'I.'
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Robert James Ruhnke
Thing is, I am expressing shared views of the entire community outside the gated community of of the conservative lgb, y’all are the full of closet white supremacists, christo-fascists, and their sacrificial tokens/pawns. I was never speaking for you. The lgb is nothing without the TQ+. Passing for straight gay men and women who try to throw others, no matter how gently, of the community at large under the bus, don’t really have any valid opinions up their sleeves when it comes to the Golden Rule or human rights. 🤷🏻♂️
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shiningwolf9
Don't need to fan your flame; you're HOT !!! HA
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Danny D. Maynard
Now, show us the evidence! You make claims without any evidence.
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shiningwolf9
You, my dear, are an exception, and should be highly held Thing is, so many more are not like you, who would rather torture, mentally, and/or physically. This, also, is a verifiable fact. Sad but true.
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Donald J Rothschild Jr
And yet the state allows adoption agencies to discriminate and not allow LGBTQ+ parents to adopt ANY child. Talk about a double standard.
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Theresa C. Marquess
It has always been difficult to adopt a child, no matter what the situation. There are so many children who would ordinarily be adopted if the laws were more amicable to people wanting to adopt. I was grateful to learn that the state of Tennessee is allowing would-be parents to adopt regardless of the child's sexual persuasion. A home with loving parents is far better than a lonely existence. All I want to see is people who would open their hearts and homes to adopt...no matter the color, nationality, or sexual identity of the child.
I've read quite a few of your comments, I am not a bigot, I am not prejudiced against anyone. I am a Christian who has had LGTBQ+ close family members. In our home, we loved them all and always will. Did we ever try to change anyone...the answer to that is a definite NO! We accepted them as they were, and are. Why is it so hard for all of you to understand that we as a family, loved everyone in our family, and our friends in the LGTBQ+ community, no matter what they believed or how they lived?
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Patricia Ann Gross
Theresa, You obviously don't understand the issue. Anti-LGBTQ+ means that the parents already believe that the child is defective. To say that "Any " family is better than "No" family only tells me that you don't know what it is like to be ridiculed and bullied every day of your existence. This is putting the child in an abusive situation. Would you also advocate for the Grand Dragon of the KKK to adopt a Black or Hispanic child? This child would fare no better. Why would someone looking for a child who has radical homophobic views adopt a child who is already certain they are LGBTQ+? Answer: To change the child and make sure they don't end up in hell. The child will be living in hell with this family, and somehow you think that is better than living in a supportive foster or group home environment. God help us all.
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shiningwolf9
I am hoping you are not as dumb as your post leaves everyone to believe. Parents having a child who knows themselves different from others is one topic, but a person/couple, who is totally against the belief that a person, as a child, can have these perfectly normal feelings for themselves, and has bigoted religious beliefs about the issue, should be seen as a detrimental threat when wanting to adopt children who already know their sexual Identity, regardless their outward appearance. Why else would a person(s) that have these hateful antagonizing feelings toward this issue of LGBTQ+ be willing to adopt children with these tendencies, except for the purpose of inflicting torture upon innocent children who try to be just who they are?!
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, your argument assumes how the adoptive parents would behave and act. Your assumptions might well be wrong.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Hardly, Kester. 25 even 20 years ago, you’d have a point. Conservatism is no longer the same beast it was. It become more feral and more clearly more destructive. If they’re anti-LTBTQ+ (like you are in part with your ridiculous pro LGB stance), they can be as seemingly nice and sweet as pie, but still try and force their children to not be who they are in many ways. I’ve seen it. I’ve seen it in many of the young people scarred from their upbringings. You’re too busy throwing trans people under the bus to notice.
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ServantOfJudgement
I'm delighted Robert.
Absolutely delighted. My primary post on this article says you would do what you just did before you did it.
You've got a vocal pro LGB Christian in front of you. That's never good enough for the woke hive mind. It wants 100% agreement with its mantra or it get ridiculed and become anti lgbtqia++.
You'd better start thinking of how you're going to handle it when the hive mind tells the world and you it's lgbtqia++map or you're a homophobic right winger.
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Robert James Ruhnke
MAP isn’t part of the community SOJ. And nobody in the community accepts it as such. That’s yalls copyright, not ours. Considering it’s right wing Christians who keep pushing for the acceptance of child marriages in the name of Jesus.
Homophobia, Queerphobia, Transohobia, all manners of fear and hate can be internalized, and I see a lot of right wing gays and gay Christians doing it all the time. They’re also the portion of the community who are lime light hogs, and have real issues with closeted racism. You completely ignoring that this gay Christian is also a right winger who runs his mouth all day long about conservative causes. Gay conservatives put politics before human rights. lol it’s why we don’t get along. It’s why I’m so vocal in countering his Bible thumping every chance I get. He’s no better than his straight counterparts when it comes to bigotry.
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Danny D. Maynard
This reminds me of the old adage: "Religion poisons everything."
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, I don't think I'm throwing anyone under the bus. I am acknowledging that persons with gender identity issues are quite different from sexual orientation. You are right that people on the right today are not the same as 25 years ago. There much better and more tolerant with those who disagree with them. Witness how many blacks, Latinos, and gays are now on that side of the great divide. Not because they changed their personal opinions or views but because the left has shifted very far indeed. Opposing a view, perspective, opinion, position, or belief is not the same as working to shame them or get them fired or cancelled. At least not from what I've seen from the right. You know if those are the practices of the left. Parents who truly love their child can and do do remarkable things to defend and protect their children.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Russel, no they arent, that’s just you lying to yourself in order to function. You’re too busy playing a savior figure to notice who you’re throwing under the bus. Conservatives aren’t what you’re projecting, firing, canceling, shaming? Sweetpea you’re so used to conservatives doing all those things, that when liberals started doing it, it shocked your very delicate sensibilities. So of course you can’t cope and go to the make believe they produce. Dixie chicks got fired for talking out against Bush, prior to that Ellen Degeneress was canceled for coming out. For a very long time nobody could come out of the closet due to Christian conservatism. In many conservative right to work states you can still be fired for coming out. Many on the right are still trying to do away with marriage equality, especially after what they did to Roe. I see a lot of panderers and grifters trying to appease their wannabe masters. Nothing more. These same conservatives are the ones protecting and not punishing their predators, Russell. These same conservative Christians when presented with the opportunity to get rid of child marriage laws, don’t. They don’t protect children, they just exploit their harm to make a quick buck. Child Weddings and gun sales for tots are big business to them. Whilst orientation, gender, and sex are all different, they’re all coinciding and synchronizing. Typically can’t have one without the others.
This isn’t just a matter of simple disagreement, toppings on pizza can be disagreed upon. Human rights are not the same, and that’s what you’re doing, gently arguing for the erasure of those who don’t fit your cookie cutter ideals. I’m just confronting you with this reality, not the hunky dory projection you’re trying to push.
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Robert Gagnon
This all an overreaction to a theoretical situation. Religious families were excluded from any adoptions in some states if they refused to bow to the trans lunatic requirements. Just on the off chance that a conservative orphan may switch to the trans gang at a later date. But a TQ promoting set of parents could adopt a straight religious orphan with no intent of reinforcing their beliefs or taking them to church or church functions. It is up to the agency to assess the home environment and match adoptions for the best possible outcome. You seem to think that some religious parents are on a mission to convert kids. Were this true they would fear a T or Q child as a possible contamination to other children in their house hold. Fanatical ravings and attacks on reasonable people including LGB as the enemy is not productive or reasonable.
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Danny D. Maynard
Now there is the wild claim, that being Gay (LGBT+) is contagious. It is not. The superstitious nature of religion makes religious fanatics unfit to be parents. Why, you ask? Well, their children come in all sorts of flavors, colors and swishes. And they will predictably force their children to be what they, the parents, impose as their required way of living. How robotic and militaristic. Do they still sing "Onward Christian Soldiers" in your church or temple?
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Robert Gagnon
My point was people out to intentionally convert children would fear their possible influence on others in their home. Sort of an exorcism gone wrong situation. I agree that no fanatic should be a parent. Both conservative and liberal fanatics disgust me. And the assumption that everyone is a fanatic and has to pick a side is a pretty dim view of humanity.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Robert, you can’t teach gay, you are born that way. Religion is taught. You are not born religious. I agree that some Christian families would raise an LGBTQ child with love and acceptance, but this law is makes it possible that the adoptive parent would refuse the support the LGBTQ child and be able to adopt them anyway. It’s cruel.
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Robert Gagnon
It still comes down to the agencies placement of children. Straight christian children placed in a morally liberal environment would be just as cruel. We can't assume possibilities will become probabilities.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Gags, no one is born religious, that fact alone undermines your argument. No one is born liberal or conservative. Meaning children don’t really have politics either. Unless you’ve brainwashed them with your religious nonsense. Using made up crap to justify your awful views is why nobody listens really.
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Robert Gagnon
Not born that way, that's a faulty theory. Somewhere in the beginning some infants become fixated on an attraction. That's just the way it works for everybody on this earth. Sometimes it happens later in childhood when they find an attraction towards another human being which may or may not be of the same sex. Some learn it may not be in their interest to not be hetero and either keep it deep inside, on the down low or just say screw it and not care what others think. Others hate that part of themselves and become fanatics for or against anything LGB. But born that way is a myth.
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Robert James Ruhnke
It’s not a myth, it’s metaphor. Y’all believe in talking snakes, but born gay is too much. lol. Hypocrites with your silly views. Sexual orientation is influenced by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental factors. It’s goes the same for straight and not straight. Born this way is just an affirmation of acceptance, nothing more.
Those who reject it outside of the LGBTQ+ community are those like yourself Gagsnon who want us to stay in that limbo of closeted shame where we don’t need to be. People are feeling the need to do that less and less all the time.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, you said many things in your comment which were quite emotionally driven. At the end, you sum up your perspective that I am guilty of gently erasing those who do not fit my cookie cutter ideals. I don't see that at all. I am in favor of robust exchanges of ideas and beliefs. Are you? I don't see conservatives out with bull horns yelling in people's ears, or demanding that networks or companies fire people because a joke they told triggered them. These any many more are the actions of woke activists. It is they, and you, who seek to erase people who do not fit your cookie cutter simile. I don't think you have a clue the costs we paid in the 70s and 80s to simply be visible. But that was in the past. Times have changed. Today it is those on the left who have become intolerant and seek to harm those who disagree with them. My hope is that as ULC ministers we are able to dialog about issues and not simply throw arrows at one another as the world does. That said, you wrote that this is about human rights. What human right do you think is being denied if loving parents adopt an LGB child even if their faith holds a less than enlightened view on homosexuality? How do you know God isn't using that child to open the hearts and minds of the parents? Children do and behave in many ways in opposition to their parents' beliefs and values. It doesn't mean the parents love them any less.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Yes they are Kester lol, but for the sake of argument you’ll gladly act innocent or obtuse, even though you’ve proven your obtuseness isn’t an act. Your pontification on the innocence of conservatives is proof enough you don’t mean what you say about ULC members not using arrows against each other. You have the tone of a wolf in lamb’s wool, you don’t fool me. You don’t fool anyone with eyes or knowledge of how soft hearted tyrants speak. You’ve already denied, and now your reversing roles of victim and offender. lol it’s called DARVO, it’s a narcissistic based tactic at messing with people. It’s how I know you’re deeply manipulative. The left doesn’t seek harm, that’s another of your lies and projections. Because your god doesn’t work like that. Because too many conservative parents have been throwing their queer kids out of the house or worse since the 50’s. Because behind closed doors one doesn’t need a mega phone to be a monster. Just a Bible and a general dislike, hatred, and non acceptance of who they are. how do I know? I’ve witnessed it. I’ve seen too many coffins of people who died from neglect of all kinds. It’s why when it comes to conservatives adopting LGBTQ+ (which there’d be no LGB, without the TQ+ throwing the first brick), I’m against it. They’re trying to erase all queer people, and somehow the deeply naive like yourself think they’re special and won’t be put on the chopping block, when history shows you’ll be the first one there.
I grew up around it. I’m not blind Kester. I grew up in a small town where people’s mentalities were still in the 50’s. Don’t you dare tell me what I don’t understand about visibility. I was one of 4 queer kids growing up in small town Kansas. If I acted a certain way I was bullied for it. If I behaved in a non straight manner I was hit for it. Others wanted to do worse. The only reason it stopped was because at puberty I shot up to six foot four and people couldn’t push me around as they used to. They all went to church on Sundays to boot. So don’t you dare try to pull the “I’m an elder gay I survived AIDS making your experience invalid,” on me.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, it seems we both survived the AIDS epidemic. For that we can be thankful to God. Loosing friends and loved ones that way was horrible. And thank God for the minds of the scientists who developed the drugs that saved the life of my partner who was 5 years older than me and long before good information became readily available.
I read in your post above that you are still fighting those battles of yesteryear. We all experienced pain in those days. I had a fundamentalist family that tossed me out at 17. I went into the Army and was discharged for being gay. I've had a dear friend beat to death by horrible homophobic thugs. But I haven't let those experiences define me or prevent me from thinking as critically as I can about the wonderfully diverse topics this ULC website puts before us to search our beliefs and be better prepared to talk with those who might seek us out. It's a new day.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, you are making unsubstantiated claims. Gay men who were at Stonewall at the time of the police raid are on video describing the events and tell us that the trans person you speak of didn't arrive on the scene until later. Claims to the contrary are revisionist history. So, no lesbians and gays are not indebted to trans persons for starting a gay revolution. Resistance with the police also occured elsewhere in America and in Canada by gays and lesbians. You would give credit where it is not deserved. Trans persons were a part. But only a part. And perhaps a small part at that. Harvey Milk and Kathy Kozachenko were arguably two of the most influential persons associated with gay pride and liberation. Neither was trans.
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Robert James Ruhnke
It’s not a matter of yester year when those things you just described are still going on and still going on in ever greater frequency. I see a portion of our community trying to sever a portion of our greater community as a whole off as a means of selfish self protection. It’s cowardice dressed up as sick attempts at altruism, truly the worst out community at large can offer, regardless of being LGB or LGBTQ+ Your life would not be what it is without the sacrifices of Trans people and those of us who support, love and respect them. I’m sorry you lost friends. But so will I if the conservative gay Christians get their way. Your friends are gone. Shaming mine from being who they are will kill them, just as it killed so many gay and lesbian youths who were not allowed to live authentically. Do not gaslight me. Those battles never go away, war never changes, only the faces behind them. i read in your posts you’ve drawn a line in the sand hoping those same fundie Christians you’re supporting won’t come after you. They will.
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Danny D. Maynard
Those anti-Gay religious fanatic parents will not work out like you think they will! How sad the result, too!
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John Chester
That's why they should do welfare checks on they parents better than abortion! Right
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
So LBGTQ people can't adopt in many states, but they're going to basically allow Nazis to adopt Jews? Absolutely insane.
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William Lewis Vass
Could have gone all day without hearing about Nazis but I get what you're saying.
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Patricia Ann Gross
My thoughts exactly.
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Steven Ferrell
The alphabet group cry about discrimination because of how they believe, yet they want to discriminate against others for how they believe.
If the alphabet group want to adopt a non alphabet child, they want that right, yet they don’t want to extend that same right to others who are opposite them.
They are damaging a child who is not alphabet by taking them if you use their logic.-
Patricia Ann Gross
Clearly not the same thing, and your argument doesn't track. They are talking about children old enough to have identified as LGBTQ+, not the myriad of children and toddlers that constitute most adoptions. Finding an affirming or gay couple to adopt an older child is probably harder than a straight couple that is willing to take on a child who has already determined that they are "different" than the others. (BTW, all children are different than the others, as each individual is miraculously unique, but I digress). Unfortunately that is the only part of this bill that makes any sense, however, putting a child into a situation that is very likely to become abusive is not the solution, either. It is more likely for the child to try to be enlightened by the parents through therapies that don't work and have been outlawed in most states than for the child to enlighten parents that are set in their ways. I know gay couples who have adopted and raised kids who were straight, mostly because the parents were progressive enough to allow the child to be the person that God intended.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
How is "you are an abomination and I will never love you the way you were born" even remotely like "I'll love you no matter what happens"?
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shiningwolf9
Steven You are SSOOOO screwed up in the head. I would ask you to re-read your post, but that is laughable.
You need to look in the mirror, and the "mirror" of your like. People with your mind-set discriminate daily, everyday, especially against those who use the acronym you so mock. (Sorry, look up: a c r o n y m).
If, and when, an Anti-LGBTQ+ seeks adoption of a child/young adult, who is knowing within themselves they have inner feelings different than most of society (or religious zealots), it is usually understood it is in "saving their soul", even to the point of torturing/killing their physical body.
The opposite situation is so very different and pure. It is a person, or couple, who know they will never have a child the normal way, yet yearn for that which they feel missing. And, maybe partly (or more), in knowing what, and how it feels to be mistreated, mentally/physically, because of who/what they are, they would never project that torture on a child, but nurture, and protect the child from hate, and abuse.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Steven Farrell, this isn’t about the “alphabet” group discriminating. This is about parents adopting a child that have stated they will not support them if they are LGBTQ. Those are the parents who should not adopt a gay child.
Nobody is saying a loving, accepting, Christian family should not adopt. The adopting parents of a gay child should support that child. They should not be allowed to shame them.
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David Arthur Lewis
Who Would Jesus Hate?
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William Lewis Vass
I don't know but his "church" has no problem hating literally anything that doesn't fit their agenda.
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ServantOfJudgement
David, according to the words of Jesus, he'd hate someone who harmed a child.
I guess the parents and doctors that cut breasts and penises from children will find out the hard way if Jesus considers that sort of thing harming a child. Same can be said about parents and doctors that refuse to do that to a child.
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Danny D. Maynard
Your imagination about "chopping anything" from a trans child is dead wrong. The child must be 18 years old to have the "CHOP!"
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
You're a servant? Then serve. Sit back quietly until you need to serve someone, but servants don't have opinions.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Servant, they do NOT chop off anything on a child. They don’t even do it to adults until they are satisfied that the person knows the permanence of what they are doing. People don’t just decide one day to make an appointment to have reassignment surgery. You can’t walk in and say chop it off. Where do you get this stuff?
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Rev. Rory
Sooooooo, the point is to give adults an avenue to "convert" children? Interesting. It doesn't sound healthy.
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William Lewis Vass
That's law is ludicrous to say the least. It's like saying it's ok to take a child from a loving family and placing them in the home of an abusive family and saying that is in the child's best interest. It's completely insane. I myself am in no way religious and I feel we're rapidly moving backwards towards the dark ages where the so called church was the governing power. All these "wins" for the religious community are nothing more than another way for them to maintain power and control by pressuring lawmakers to enact ignorant laws that fit their agenda. You want peace in this world then you need to do away with all religions and people accept and respect the rights of others to be who and what they are.
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Daniel Gray
Deal with the SCOTUS as they said its legal and constitutional. And dont expect it to change anytime soon as to change the decision you would either have to have SCOTUS reverse itself and there is a very slim chance of that happening as they have only done it 11 times in their whole existence, or have 3/4ths of BOTH Houses of Congress vote to overturn the decision and there is even less chance of that happening then of SCOTUS reversing itself.
So my apologies, but what you posted is your OPINION and nothing more. In fact it makes about as much sense as a speck of dust being bounced around in a hurricane claiming that it wanted a change. Or as my fav character in Babylon 5 TV series said "Once the avalanche starts its too late for the pebble to vote".
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Marion Sowerby
To me this says that the rights of the adult who wants to adopt are more important than the rights of the children that they 'want' to adopt. It is no more, and no less.
Also reminds me of the times that various churches decided to open orphanages for children from Indigenous peoples (who generally had their own parents, but they were the wrong sort of parents for the churches).
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Ari Joseph Bertine
This is going to kill children. Literally kill them dead. These hypocrites care about nothing but money and clout, and now they prove that the lives of the most vulnerable of our citizens mean nothing to them.
May the blood of those sacrificed to the gears of the political machine choke and drown those who forsake them to primitive, animal hatred.
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Robert Gagnon
This is in response to cutting adaptions from good people with religious values because they refuse to play into the gender over rides all theory. Simply because of the possibility that an adopted child may decide to switch genders and the adoptive parents will not go for that at a later date, they are being excluded from the adoption process. By the same token a religious orphan could easily be adopted by gung ho everything goes parents. An obviously more mentally damaging situation. It is still up to the agency to find the best match for child and family. The way they wrote it removes these barriers.
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Danny D. Maynard
Saying that religion is the solution to the world of parenting is dead wrong!
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Robert Gagnon
By the same token people brought up in an ordinary (not fanatical) religious environment are one fourth as likely to commit suicide. So which is mentally healthier? Is an imaginary identity worth hating your body, depression, believing your birth body (therefore you) is a mistake because of the wrong body. All the chemicals and surgeries in the world can not change your sex. Dr Victor Frankenstein performed similar surgeries and look what he got. As pretty as a monster may be it is still a monster.
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Robert James Ruhnke
People who are trans kilo themselves because of bullying monsters like yourself, Gags. All the prayers and scriptures you read don’t make you a better person, Gags. Your comments prove that every time. The difference between Frankenstein’s monster and the avg. trans person, Trans people are real, and have been on this earth well before Mary Shelly created science fiction.
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Robert Gagnon
I have never been a bully, as a kid or an adult, haven't prayed since I was 12. I believe in reality and facts. To alter ones appearance to the point of changing the bodies function and/or purpose is unnatural. To do this on purpose is to create the unnatural. Unnatural = monster, look it up. Like it or not it is true. Now I'm gonna be direct: The world will never change, different gets bullied and always will. Try having the courage to accept this reality. Aggression towards others will never placate the self loathing you exhibit.
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shiningwolf9
You need to go visit an asylum, like..., the rest of you life.
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Russel A. Kester
What's really at issue here? I doubt it's about the gay and lesbian kids. I suspect it's really about those kids some persons claim are trans. The trans activists are upset that these parents would not provide the affirmative health care that trans activists and their allies believe these kids should be given. The psychological issues associated with the trans debates should be treated by psychologists not medical doctors. I know that in my own personal experience having grown up in a very fundamentalist environment that there were still those persons in my church who, even knowing that I was a young gay kid when I didn't, were very kind and loving to me in ways that surprise me still to this day.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Oh no, not affirming their pronouns and letting them dress a certain way, which is all gender affirming care is for trans youth. The hormones and blockers usually aren’t allowed till late puberty or early adulthood.. Those of course can be reversed with time. Trans is complex situation that is a matter of biology and psychology. In speaking of mental health, go get your narcissism that’s associated with gay men checked out before you make a nasty veiled comment about trans people.
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William Lewis Vass
Well said Robert!
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Robert Gagnon
Great lies you got there. Learn that from trump, just keep saying it over and over, then say "but everybody Knows"!
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Robert James Ruhnke
Trump? I don’t need trump to read medical articles and studies. Lies are your area of expertise Gagsnon. It’s why you’re such a radical whatever you are. Lol.
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Robert Gagnon
Same method, equal intelligence. Using faulty surveys that align with a predetermined agenda. One thing learned when young was that people never change. A coward no matter how big they grow will melt away at someone their own size or larger. Making fun of someones name is so childish, specially when there is one well known hero in my family. Let's see 6'4 tutu and makeup, sounds like buffalo bill in silence of the lambs. Really can't find anything to respect or acknowledge in that mental image. Give me a little thrill with some of your childhood nicknames.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Awe. You know all about being coward. I have never done Ballet, done a lot farm and security work though. A Hero whose shadow you live in im absolutely sure. No wonder you’re so bristly. You can’t live up to the Hero’s lore and it’s away are away at you leaving you nothing but bitter disappointment.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, your statement about youth who thinks they're trans not getting puberty blockers or surgery is simply wrong. I watched one of the main doctors from OHSU describe the procedures he personally performed on children at OHSU in a video to Congress. The Cass Report out of the UK refutes your statements. And the testimony of a growing number of detransitioning youth are filled with horror stories of how they and their parents were pushed into so called gender affirming care. Other studies show that if left alone up to 80% of these kids understand that they are gay or lesbian. What is truly revealing in your comment was that you stated gay men are narcissistic simply because they do not buy into the trans activist narratives. That's not narcissism, that reality. I made no nasty comments about those persons you label trans to the best of my knowledge. Simply stating that one cannot change their gender (sex) is not a nasty comment. It's a simple truth. I truly fail to understand why any man can believe that he is capable of knowing what it is to be a woman when even Standford University recently came out with a report that men and women understand and respond to reality very differently. Stanford is a pretty woke institution these days. So there's no way a person born a man will know what reality is like for a woman let alone be a woman. It's biology.
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Danny D. Maynard
One doctor from OSU or the UK does not a case make. Your argument is specious logically and needs more empirical data.
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Russel A. Kester
Danny, "The report was accompanied by 9 studies (8 of which were systematic reviews of evidence) supporting the recommendations. Within hours, NHS England responded, thanking Dr. Hilary Cass and her team for “stepping up to lead such a complex review.” https://segm.org/Final-Cass-Report-2024-NHS-Response-Summary#:~:text=The%20report%20was%20accompanied%20by,lead%20such%20a%20complex%20review.%E2%80%9D
So why do you think that a report from an esteemed pediatrician and published by the UK government summarizing the findings of many reports is somehow logically specious?
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Robert James Ruhnke
Gay men are narcissistic because men in this society regardless of orientation are man babied and are rarely held responsible for their actions. Many gay men right now are angry that the lime light isn’t on them anymore and they’re yesterday’s oppressed flavor of the day. I’m being facetious of course, but there is a ring of truth to what I’ve said. Lots of gay men and lots of lesbians aren’t the center of the attention they used to be. So I order to compensate the more insane of the group are applauding the poorly done report that had zero to do with the community it was reporting on. As in, nobody consulted those who’d been studying trans biology the last 20 or so years. The same report that’s ignored the findings of the last 20 years. Like how your response also ignores the other orientations like Bi, Pan, Ace or Queer. Your lot push queer erasure in general, so I’m not surprised. People can be trans and gay, or trans and lesbian, get over it. You’re not standing up for human rights by throwing ours under the bus in the name of reality or biology, you’re just making yourself look like a soft voiced tyrant. When it comes to orientation and Lol notice how I said, veiled comment, due keep up. You make lots of nasty veiled comments like your conservative Christian counterparts and when confronted, go strait to denial. All it takes to understand someone is two ******* eyes, an ounce of empathy, and a mind free gender mystique biases. Those who say one cannot understand another’s pain. Are those who preach division and separateness for the sake of exploitations.
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James Riggle-Johnson
It's really not about being out of the limelight, or the oppressed flavor, it’s about fear. Fear that we are going to lose what has taken decades to achieve. We “gay men” are sitting precariously on the edge of one SCOTUS decision that allowed us to be married and receive the same Federal Government rights as our CIS counter parts. We are afraid that the justices who want that reversed are simply waiting for the right case to come along. We are afraid of those attorney generals in conservative states passing a law that will be challenged and go to SCOTUS. They’ve done it to abortion rights and it’s only a matter of time before it happens to us. I don’t want attention. I am just afraid.
Also, we find ourselves pushed back into focus every June when so many conservatives lose their minds over Pride Month. Just sayin.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, again you expressed a lot of emotion and opinions. And again tried to insult me or any you think are of my ilk. As I said, I don't believe that I have been insulting to you or those who hold positions like yours. I do disagree with those opinions. I have offered reasons for my positions. You made an interesting statement when you claimed that my lot was pushing for queer erasure. It's interesting because it is queer theory that pushes the erasure of clear sexual categories with made up terms which you listed. It's a common practice in post-modern deconstruction ideologies. It's intended to confuse boundaries and categories in order to replace them with new terms which confuse or queer them thus making no distinctions at all. Yes, I adamantly oppose such queering efforts. Clear, clean categories and terms make for better communication. You wrote that this makes me guilty of preaching division and separation for the purpose of exploitation which is Marxist terminology and ideology. So your Marxist and post-modern deconstructionist theories are guilty of erasing peoples legitimate identities not me or mine.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, I reread my above comments to you and never once called you a Marxist or a commie that I could see. I did point out that you were using Marxist terminology and theories to try to make your point. Your statement that logic cannot exist without emotion is astounding to say the least. Emotional expletives are not logical statement or premises. There is also the logic used by computers. Are you saying computers are now emotional? As for the community you describe as our community, it is composed of individuals who have independent thoughts and ideas. We don't all simply fall into lockstep with the latest directives from some would be a self-appointed potentate. I will again point out that I haven't called you names or tried to either belittle or bully you. Can you honestly say the same?
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Robert James Ruhnke
Never directly Kester, your lot are far too cowardly to be that direct. It would destroy the carefully created guise and veil you’ve constructed to hide the more sinister parts of your personality and agenda. Youll, deny, make bogus claim, or attack, then reverse the order of victim and offender. This entire time you’ve been dictating to me that the TQ+ cannot be LGB, when I know too many lesbians, gays, and bis are who are trans or queer, and no it has nothing to do with the politics you’re projecting. Accusing any one of using Marxist language is a way to dirty any argument in this country. You know that. Kester. Only cis men, gay or straight, with everything handed to them and everything catered to them, including monopolizing of certain “manly” emotions as being logical, would try to separate emotion and logic, as you cannot have one without the other. We are talking about people, who are not computers, your false equivalency is noted. If you are all logic, any evil thing can be justified, if you’re all emotion, then nothing moves forward or gets done. I do recognize that. I’ve directly insulted you because I don’t play the game of veiled insults only. Meanwhile you say plenty of insulting false things about me and the people I care about and act like you’re doing us a favor.
Lol you need to read more on emotion and logic that’s mot from a conservative source.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, gay men or lesbians who are also trans? In future articles where this would be appropriate, it will be interesting to understand how you got to that opinion.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Kester cut the pearl clutching. We are talking about LGBTQ+ people. I know many gay and lesbian trans people. Again Kester I don’t live my life erasing or telling people who they are or aren’t.
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Robert Gagnon
Oh great and wise self proclaimed spokesperson for the TQ community TuTu Ruhnke: Please explain how these labels work. Gay or lesbian that are also trans? If a trans female (biological male) has relations with a male does that make them gay or straight? At which point does the self imposed gender identity over ride the reality of male/male, (hence gay) interactions. The sensible way to label orientation is to use the biological markers not imaginary ones. Please break this down Oh wise one. p.s. Still waiting on childhood nick names.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Those nicknames like most of your comments are irrelevant, Gags. As always you’re operating on a database thats incomplete. Gender Identity and Sexual Orientation are different for everyone. No two ever match up or synchronize the same. No two people have the same tastes. There are biological happenings that occur in trans individuals that can be found in the brain and in the endocrine system. Even if you don’t believe the evidence. It’s still there.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Kester, again you try to gaslight me for having or expressing emotions, when all you’ve done is pontificate from the emotions that drive your cult of conservative Christianity. Logic cannot exist without emotion, because when people are defining the rules within which they will perform their logical thinking, they have already used their emotional responses to define the values and assumptions that go into any logical system. As in, you’re trying to gas light me for what you’re also doing. Hypocrite.
I’m not a Marxist, that’s just a dirty word you’re using to also gaslight me because I don’t bow before your silly sense of superiority. Theres no such thing as a legitimate identity, like there is no such thing as perfect. the very notion that you think there are tells me you could use a little deconstruction in your life. Show me a perfect man and I’ll show you a plucked chicken. Diogenes came up with that 560 years before Christ was put on the cross, my ideas are older than Marx. My ideas have better influences than Marx. Marx was a homophobic lazy whiner who perverted his wives better ideas to make a fast buck. If I were to espouse any leftist theory it would be Peter Kroptkin, his conquest of bread was his own doing and well thought out.
The terms are clearly defined, you willfully misunderstanding them doesn’t change that, and only adds to my comment that you’re obtuse. The only reason you lot want distinction is to exploit it for your own personal gain. Even though you yourself don’t belong to the distinguished who’ve written you off as a deviant and are not accepted. Give it one law mandate from a new christo fascist regime and you’ll not ne spared, Kester. That’s reality you choose to deny.
You’re so out of touch with our community no wonder you’re trying force the rest of us into capitulating to your foolish standards. An now that I’m still arguing with you, the big guns have finally come out. Well, intellectual pea shooters really. Y’all whine so much about name calling but never hesitate with commie, Marxist, post modern, all kinds of things that just never stick. All I need for you is bigot. A very soft spoken, and well intended bigot, but still a bigot 😉.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, the rules of logic are not based on emotions. They are more akin to the rules of mathematics. If A, then B. If B, then C. Therefore, if A, then C is a logical argument and has nothing to do with emotions.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Humans are complex beings that have many different interests, or “dimensions of being human,” that are equally important to them. These “aspects of being” include empirical (or logical), aesthetic, emotional, spiritual or religious, moral or ethical aspects.
With that in mind, all of these dimensions or aspects should be balanced out, but people are messy. Some let their emotions cloud their logic. You’ve let your religious aspect cloud your logic and emotions. A religious aspect can make people jump to some horrific conclusions especially when the emotions of pride, fear, and anger are involved. I see your pride and I see your fear. Your anger is just beneath the surface, where all conservative Christians keep it. The rules of mathematics are always changing as we learn more of the universe. The rules of logic also change as we learn more about ourselves. There’s so much ignored already by those who let their faith in a book and prayer blind them to our rich reality.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, when you wrote that "aspects of being included empirical (or logical) ... aspects," you erred because, as written, you equated empirical experience with logic. They are not the same. They are very different. The rules of logic have, therefore, nothing to do with how we as persons experience life, understand life, or it's changes. A good book on sentential, predicate, or categorical logic will acquaint you with the rules of logic. Logical rules determine well formed statements from those that are not. And tell us how various connectives in logical arguments operate. How to establish if an argument form is valid or invalid and if valid whether or not it is sound. None of this has even a whiff of emotion. I don't know where you learned than our emotions are logic but your sorely misinformed.
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Daniel Gray
They wont be doing this again after the SCOTUS decision....
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Robert James Ruhnke
They said the same thing about me he Roman senate, then the Goths sacked Rome. lol. The SCOTUS can and will be changed or replaced, it’s only a matter time.
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Daniel Gray
And sadly for you it will never happen in your lifetime.
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Russel A. Kester
Danny, there is much more to find than the two EXAMPLES I put forth above. This is a blog, not a site to write a dissertation. However, I'm confident you can find and read/watch the sources I mentioned above and find more as well. I might also mention that the Cass Report as well as other reports make it clear that the data to perform any of the procedures now being practiced was bad information and relied more on theories than empirical data.
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Robert James Ruhnke
You religious and political fanatics are ignoring imperial data for gender mystiques and religious superstitions that aren’t based in science. The cass report is unfinished garbage that is being misused by a group of people being manipulated against their own community. It’s extremely sad, Kester.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, should I trust an eminent pediatrician and the UK government or you. I'm gonna go with the former.
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Robert James Ruhnke
You shouldn’t trust the hype behind the crappy interpretations of medical research. I’ve read the report and the conclusions drawn by anti trans pushing loonies are just projected nonsense based on outdated data and cultural positions, not actual biology. Im going to trust the multitudes of scientists and researchers who can with very little problem, explain the science behind the inner workings of trans individuals. I’m also going to trust the psychiatric communities over all finding that trans isn’t a mental illness as you so hope it is. I used think like you too, Russel. I grew out of that sad and limited way of thinking.
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Pamela Kay Waters
Stupid is Stupid does
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Robin Anne Hannon
I think that any child that is LGBTQ in an environment of nonacceptance, hatred, or revulsion for who and what they are would not thrive. This is not just true in adoptions. What if they are the biological parents? I'm assuming if a child is mistreated then child services will get involved. So, what is the motive to put these children in that sort of home? What comes to mind is forced "conversion" and trying to squeeze a square peg into a round hole. Not too long-ago children were subject to psychiatric wards, torture, boot camps, and electroshock therapy. It destroyed these children and their lives. This is just despicable.
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James Mounts
Easy decision. Nobody who espouses LGB..... should be allowed within a mile of any child.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Except kids themselves could be LGBTQ+ They know. No one teaches them to be such, they just KNOW.
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James Mounts
Yes, you are correct. I remember when I was a chilf, I was an Indian Brave, Nobody taught me, I just knew. Fortunately for me there were no Indian Brave couples willing to adopt me.
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Danny D. Maynard
You attempt at obfuscation and "reductio ad absurdum" failed miserably!
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James Mounts
As I have said before, one should never use a thesaurus without a dictionary
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James Mounts
*child
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Robert Gagnon
LGB may know but, TQ choose to deny the realty of their physical vessel in this world. Same way flat earthers feel the need to project their beliefs.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Oh gags, trans and queer people know the earth is round. A vessel isn’t the soul, and our vessels Change with time. In reality, the only reason y’all don’t like trans people isn’t because of god, it’s because we challenge every aspect of your sad little reality. We don’t just challenge, we defy your sense of reality and you seek to shame us out of it. The only reason projection is part of your dictionary now is because you’ve told that’s what you do so much you got it into your head to start misusing it because you’re lacking any real substance behind your claims, so now you have to sound like you know what you’re talking about. lol. It’s hilarious.
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Robert Gagnon
Your reality may be sad, mine is interesting. I find joy in everything even your childhood memories you've mentioned. When you attack myself or others I see the blatant fear and insecurity you exhibit. You think fanaticism is the justification of your existence? Dr. Cass report has invalidated every argument you use as justification of your cause. Just as the abused become the abusers to justify their actions, you have come to represent the same.
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James Riggle-Johnson
If you are using The Cass report as hard factual evidence, you should read the opposing views of that report. It is flawed. It is incomplete.
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Robert Gagnon
Strict analysis has been used in Cass report compared to faulty methods in contrary reports. Only 2 of 103 three contrary reports could be validated by equal scientific method. Difference behind science fact and opinion based arguments based on weak evidence. Easy to say flawed and incomplete, impossible to prove at this time. Just cause you doesn't like the science, doesn't make it any less true.
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Robert James Ruhnke
The Cass Report didn’t actually. It is however being misrepresented by illiterate fools who try to take every opportunity to misrepresent science with their lunacy. The cass Report was interesting, but was hardly the blow you anti science dorks want it to be. The only sad uninteresting fanatic here is you, Gags. Insecurity? You enjoy the suffering of the bullied. That’s probably the most insecure thing one can do. You accuse me of becoming an abuser while you yourself were abused and did the same thing. Hypocrite. Lol. I’m a survivor, I know your predator’s tricks, Gags. Project all you want, but we see you. Lol.
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Robert Gagnon
On of my favorite sayings as a kid was "You really don't have a reason to live do you"? Half a century ago I would have offered such wisdom out of kindness. Why fight the darkness when you choose to live in it your whole life? Name calling and empty accusations are not indicative of a philosopher or the intellectual you pretend to imitate. In old Asian society people would never tolerate living in such shame and lack of purpose..
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Robert James Ruhnke
Trying to be sinister now? Lmfao. Oh Gags. It’s pathetic. I was born of the loam, neither dark nor light, a place where both are needed to live. My reason to live is simple. An it’s none of your business, and there’s great beauty in that. Name calling? Lol honey you just admitted to wanting me dead, and that I should commit suicide. Thats a lot worse than name calling. Ya hypocrite. Old Asian societies was the dead five away there. Due try better.
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Robert Gagnon
Only fear keeps some going and that's fine, go for it. A true brave soul takes on all adversity no matter how big their adversaries. How cowardly the one that waits to outgrow or out size their opponents before standing up for themselves. I would never wish ill on anyone knowing that they must live to suffer.
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Russel A. Kester
James, that position is not well informed and is quite offensive because it has a hidden premise that LGB persons are a danger to children. That is not the case. Straight men have proven to be far more dangerous to children than either LGB persons or women. Should no man be allowed within a mile of any child? Your statement is prejudicsm at its worst.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Russell, it’s LGBTQ+, not LGB, there’s more to our community than just your cis Hetero confirming nerdery.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, as I've written elsewhere, everything after the B belongs elsewhere as they have very different issues. The T has gender dysphoria that is not a sexual orientation. The the Q which stands for queering all identities is a radical, woke ideology that also has nothing to do with sexuality. So it's LGB.
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Russel A. Kester
James, as I said above. LGB has completely different concerns than those who suffer gender dysphoria. And since I promote the concerns of lesbians, gays, and bisexuals how do you perceive that as being heterosexually normative? How is being gay, lesbian, or bisexual heterosexually normative? It isn't. It was wrong to add trans to the other groups. We just didn't know what they were talking about at the time and needed to work on other priorities first. We have. And now the true agenda of trans activists is apparent for all to see and many of us are saying, uhhh no. That's not us.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Kester, I used to be just like you… I couldn’t understand why the T or Q had to be added to our community. They had nothing to do with sexual orientation. Then one day a light bulb went off. If I couldn’t explain how I could be gay, knowing that I just knew. Then how could I question someone else just knowing they were different in another way. I can’t explain why a Trans person feels they were born into the wrong body no more than I can explain why I was born gay. I just knew. Who am I to deny them their existence.
As to why the T and Q being added to the LGB, it was because at the time we thought we were such a small portion of the population. We began accepting that a very small portion of people who also knew they were different. That didn’t feel they were what society said they should be. We the Lesbian, Gay, and Bi orientation group thought the Trans identity, and the Q, which stood for Questioning at the time, should be added to ours.
I’m surprised you don’t know that. I guess I was fortunate to be in San Francisco, ground zero when all of this was new.
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Russel A. Kester
James, I too lived in San Francisco during these times and continued to live there for over 30 years. I do know that the Q originally meant questioning and that it now means queer or queering. So, I guess that I too am lucky to have been in San Francisco during these formative times. Perhaps that is the crux of the matter. Those were formative times and quite fluid. But things have solidified and we now understand that the T and Q are very different creatures that the LGBs. Just accept the divorce papers.
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James Mounts
I'm glad to hear it. Good for you. Good luck.
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James Mounts
Russel, my premise was not hidden. It would be hard to make it more obvious.Your premise, however, that we should permanently physically alter our children because, after all there are other dangers, is as ridiculous as your statement that straight men have been proven to be far more dangerous. Show me the studies.
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Russel A. Kester
James, from the website Community Advocates for Family and Youth:
"Most often, sexual abusers know the child they abuse but are not relatives. In fact, about 60% of perpetrators are nonrelative acquaintances, such as a friend of the family, babysitter, or neighbor. About 30% of those who sexually abuse children are relatives of the child, such as fathers, uncles, or cousins. Strangers are perpetrators in about 10% of child sexual abuse cases. Men are found to be perpetrators in most cases, regardless of whether the victim is a boy or a girl. However, women are found to be perpetrators in about 14% of cases reported against boys and about 6% of cases reported against girls." https://www.cafyonline.org/get-help/survivor-resources/survivor-resources-parents-victims/perpetrators-child-sexual-abuse/
Their statements agree with my own observations from having written sexual abuse insurance coverage for churches, schools, and other nonprofit organizations for over 30 years.
As for your comment that I advocate the permanent, physical alterations to a child's body, I certainly do not as my ongoing conversations with Robert make clear, I oppose so-called gender affirming care.
Finally, yes, the premise I indicated was a hidden premise. To have made it not hidden one would have written:
No persons who are harmful to children should be allowed within a mile of any child. LGB persons are harmful to children. Therefore, LGB persons should not be allowed within a mile of a child..
Your post omitted the first two premises. But it was the omission of the second premises to which I referred as it is the premise that I wished make clear and then offer a counter example which your conclusion which you subsequently refused to acknowledge, but to which I've given additional information to support it.
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James Mounts
Show me the studies that demonstrate that, per capita, straight males are the prime physical damagers. The rest is just so much blather. As for my "hidden" premise", you may be right since you missed the premise entirely. I am not concerned here with other kinds of harm people do to children. I am speaking about the physical and emotional harm done in furtherance of someone's fantasy ego trip.
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Danny D. Maynard
I feel the same about the religious fanatics too!
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James Mounts
So do I
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G. W. Simmons Jr.
@James Mounts
❝Easy decision. Nobody who espouses LGB..... should be allowed within a mile of any child.❞
Gaysagainstgroomers
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James Mounts
I'm sorry, but I have no idea what that means.
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shiningwolf9
You need to go visit an asylum, like..., the rest of you life.
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Rolando Couce
WTF man this is complete madness every since the Democrats took over the white cocaine house it has been a mad house a mad house
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Rev. Rory
Are you okay? This is an article about Tennessee. What are you talking about?
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James Thomas Mann III
Amen (at the risk of upsetting some).
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William Lewis Vass
Please go ahead and upset them. I have never heard such idiotic babel. The white house and the democrats have absolutely nothing to do with the conversation at hand. James and Rev. Rory thank you for addressing the ignorance.
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James Thomas Mann III
Actually there is enough ignorance in these ULC blogs to start a landfill.
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ServantOfJudgement
If a person says a trans chick is a dude, or if that person wouldn't permit a child to get their genitals destroyed by a doctor, that person becomes anti-lgbtqia++ according to the woke hive mind. That same person can be associated with gay people, hire them, travel with them and build a friendship with them. In all ways a seamless and friendly relationship is overlooked. The inclusive crowd has a hard line. You either agree with them 100% or you're a hating anti lgbtqia++ homophobic scumbag.
It's not likely wanting parents would be hurtful to adopted children though it happens. It's a human condition you'll find in straight and gay people. What constitutes being hurtful to the right and left is sadly diametrically opposed when it comes to gender and sex. Cutting breasts from a girls little body or destroying a boys ability to reproduce is very loving to some, to others it's very hurtful.
The future choices of these precious children are ripped from their souls, lovingly or not.
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Daniel Gray
So which do you want to do? You whine and cry about Pro Life people needing to adopt and care for babies, and when they do now you are whining and crying because you got your wish?
I guess then your heads must REALLY be exploding when the US Supreme Court just approved and said the Idaho Bill (now law) that bans all treatments for Transgendered kids (according to their parents) until they reach the age of maturity (18) and that the Parents would have to pay for the treatments if they want it to continue. That means that EVERY states now can make laws like this and they cannot be challenged. Idaho legislators passed the bill, called the Idaho Vulnerable Child Protection Act, last May. The law bans puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones and certain surgeries for transgender adolescents. Idaho doctors who prescribe those treatments to transgender youth can face up to 10 years in prison. Now you have the usual circus making idiotic claims but how can you defeat the law when the SCOTUS already said it was legal and constitutional?
https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/docketfiles/html/public/23a763.html No. 23A763 Title: Raul Labrador, Attorney General of Idaho, Applicant v. Pam Poe, By and Through Her Parents and Next Friends, Penny and Peter Poe, et al. Docketed: February 21, 2024 Lower Ct: United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit Case Numbers: (24-142)
Hmm I hear heads exploding clear over here.
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Patricia Ann Gross
Head is not exploding, because I agree with part of something you said. When and how to start treatments for a child is a process, and it often progresses into the age when a child has the option to choose to start treatments themselves. At the same time, I don't think this is something that should be legislated, as some are more aware of their identities much earlier than others, as some of the adults have already replied in this post. I am acutely aware of the process, and when it is followed, it leaves little room for error. There are also times when the the process includes NOT moving forward with treatments. For the most part, puberty blockers and hormone treatments can be reversed, but the surgeries can't. This should be something that should be regulated only to the point that the process of evidence based best practices that includes gender therapy being done first, before any hormone or blocking treatments. The doctors, therapists, and parents (while the child is still a minor) should be the ones in control, not the legislators who have no clue about what it is like to live in a skin that doesn't fit.
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Daniel Gray
The heads that are exploding are the people who out of one side of their mouths tear into people who dont believe their world view, and then when their view comes true then they start having conniption fits not seemingly understanding whats going on. For instance all we heard about was the people who were for abortions demanding that the people against them then adopt the kids. Now when they ARE adopting the kids, these same people complaining earlier and now complaining because what they wanted came to fact!
Thats why I included the SCOTUS decision to tweak and increase the pressure on these kinds of people and am clearly enjoying the popping of the heads I hear 24/7 when they finally understand that the Hobbs decision didnt sprinkle fair dust and make everything sunshine and rainbows.
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Patricia Ann Gross
You miss an important point. Adopting babies is far different than adopting a child old enough to understand gender, even at an elementary level.
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Daniel Gray
Not really Patrica, they are both available for adoption and in childrens homes. So would you rather we leave them there or take them into a home and a family?
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Richard Albright
I believe the whole idea of being LGBTQ or transgender is a travesty to humanity.
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Patricia Ann Gross
And I respect your right to believe that, even though I believe that God made and loves all people (humanity) regardless of how they present as a gender and who they love. Can you respect my belief as well, so long as neither of us try to force it on the other?
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Daniel Gray
I can Patricia, thank you for your common sense and decency
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Patricia Ann Gross
You're welcome, Daniel.
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
Not a good idea.
A lot of foster children are already abused WITHOUT their being a major hatred towards them…I’ve known several while growing up and dating.
The abuse is unbelievable.
I can’t even IMAGINE what someone with intense hatred towards a child put in their custody will do.
This is DUMB.
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RAYMOND BENITEZ
LET SEE WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS The most commonly quoted Bible verses are Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13, which state that it is an abomination for a man to lie with another man as he would with a woman. In Romans 1:26-27, Apostle Paul says that homosexuality is contrary to God's natural order and results from rejecting God.
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Russel A. Kester
Raymond, your quote from the old testament sits next to other abominations which you ignore with impunity. You are quoting from an ancient law which included many cultural values not just religious. I believe there is a verse in which Jesus speaks of divorce and says that Moses permitted it. He didn't say that God permits it. He said Moses permitted it. Those laws in Leviticus are made by men, products of their time with all of their prejudices and faults. Similar thinking goes for Paul. These were his thoughts and beliefs. And homosexual acts cannot be contrary to God's natural order as it is found virtually everywhere in nature. And his reasoning is spurious when he claims homosexuality results from rejecting God. Many people who reject God do not instantly become gay or lesbian. Scripture must be understood in its historical context. And God's word isn't just contained in a book for that would be a death. God's word is the living word and speaks today through new knowledge from scientists, psychology, and many other sources. The writers of the Christian Bible wrote as they felt inspired to write but were still products of their environment and simply got some things wrong. Or as the Catholic Church might put it, revelation is ongoing in the church and opens our understanding of the truths contained in Holy Scripture.
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Nicholas J Page
How can a child be able to decide if they are gay or straight thought you had to be an adult to choose which path to follow .
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Russel A. Kester
Nicholas, we are born gay or straight it's not a decision one makes upon reaching adulthood. Yes, even as a very young kid I was attracted to guys who were already teenagers which I thought made them awesome. So the child does not decide, the child just is straight or gay. If you're straight, then I'm quite confident you never made the decision to be straight. You've just always been straight.
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Daniel Gray
You still have yet to prove that Russel, so until you can state that its YOUR opinion
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Russel A. Kester
Daniel, that is not my opinion, it is my experience. But not just mine. It is the experience of hundreds of millions of gay persons throughout history. Anecdotal evidence can be given credence when something is experienced by so many people. Personal testimonies like this are even admitted in courts of law. There are also studies which have included finding differences in parts of brain structure and how information is processed.
Please do tell us about the day you decided to be straight. What were your thoughts and feelings while you determined that you would be attracted to girls from now on and not to other guys.
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Danny D. Maynard
Believe me when I say we know! And many times, the parents and grandparents know long before the child does.
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James Thomas Mann III
I n my own life I am admittedly bisexual. When my 14 year old daughter declared herself gay I had to point out to her that, in my house, until she was 18 she was abstaining from any sort of permanent decisions. Including things like tattoos. (At 14 we had agreed to allow one piercing in each ear)
These days sex can cause a lifetime of dealing with an STD, if not an outright death from a pregnancy. After we discussed this she agreed that there was plenty of time to make the choice with my blessings.
My love for her is unconditional but it is my duty as a loving father to do my dead level best to protect her. Both of these things she accepts as the gospel truth. I am fortunate that I have a very intelligent young lady to look after.
Sometimes, not always, but sometimes it is the way you bring them up.
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Danny D. Maynard
Lesbians do not have anal sex, and so they do not have the same problems that gay and bisexual men have. You need to learn about the world of Lesbians, and perhaps, locate a trusted mentor for your daughter. At 14, she knows!
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Daniel Gray
And seemingly you dont know what you are talking about. lesbians use the exact same (though not all of them) item that resembles the male anatomy as they are called "strap ons" and you should read this from the left side of the political fence and educate yourself. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/lesbians-anal-sex_n_578e65d3e4b07c722ebc6506
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James Thomas Mann III
Do you live for my posts to make some stupid comments or do you just live to be a gadfly?
I lived with and had many dear friends over the years that were lesbian and if you really think that lesbians are somehow immune to HIV then you are gravely mistaken. I am very very tired of burying loved ones because of stupid people’s opinions. I am quite certain that I know exactly what I am talking about.
As for MY daughter; mind your ODB. Surgery cordoned castrating children and other sick beliefs are child abuse and the product of the criminally insane.
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Danny D. Maynard
You imagination is going into overdrive. I expect that you will drive her away from you with your attitude and convictions! My husband and I have helped several Lesbian ladies who were tossed out by a raging anti-Gay Daddy and a always-follow-daddy Mommy! We do understand the situation. They are not the only ones, but they are the applicable cases.
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James Thomas Mann III
See my final answer to another of you postcards from oblivion above. But I did show what you had to say to my daughter… I am afraid we will have to have another conversation about that. (Us… not you) suffice it to say she has an opinion about you even lower than mine.
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Daniel Gray
so you want to take your ball and run home I see. Guess it proves that you play stupid games you win stupid prizes, and in this case you make stupid statements and you get shown how stupid they were.
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Felicia Smith
i am apart of the lgbt community and this bill should not be passed in the lgbt community alot of people commit suicide because of discrimination like this allow them to be happy allow them to be who they are God created everyone the way they are for a reason this is 2024 times need to change God says that we must love everyone and not to judge or condemn any one
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
brought to you by cris chins who hate, courtesy of cristo-fascist theology
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John Chester
Parents means Dad And a mom, it will not promote suicide rates, it only means they will go into a loving family that will love them and not want to give them up, it's better than murdering them at 9 months old Which is unlawful
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Robert James Ruhnke
Wrong. Too many kids with both sets of parents have wound up offing themselves because their parents were scumbags who thought about themselves and not their kid’s wellbeing. Parents means any responsible adult caring for a child all their lives. Gender doesn’t matter. I know too many right wing Christian couples what want to raise drones and breeders at all costs for their cults for your statement to be true. “No love like Christian hate,” after all.
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John Chester
All rights should be taught be only in a loving family Whom Dad should be a man And a mom should only be a woman, What does parents mean, yes caring and loving but also means Man and a woman! A son or a daughter should be rose ways they should go not the opposite, and another thing, why are we so clinging or apose on adoption but fight for abortion which is unlawful, dad to say these days we fight for more for murder then we do life these days which is sad but true, were just to layback or to relaxed to start a revolution so instead we fight for evolution which promotes murder, even the heathens say I love should faith love more
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Joseph P Aleks
Children aren't LGBTQ. Neither are adults. These are dangerous myths. To suggest that a child might be LGBTQ is child abuse far worse than physical molestation. And the transgender beliefs and behaviors are even worse than pedophilia. These dangerous myths are not what any church should be promoting.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Wrong Aleks. I knew at a young age I wasn’t straight. As do many other LGBTQ+. You promote Bronze Age myths that have been used to to justify the killing of people for the last 2000 years. Your myths are what are dangerous. Not a group of people with behaviors far older than your imaginary friend.
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James Earl Watson
I think most people are missing the mark here. Just because they are anti LGBQT doesn't mean that they will be placed in a hostile home. The children need to be taught both sides of the spectrum and then they can make up their minds on how they choose to live. If you believe in the Bible you know it's wrong to live the LGBTQ lifestyle and you know that you will not be in heaven. It's time for Christian people to stand for what is right. Not be mean,rude, or hateful about it but rather in love teach the young kids the right, biblical way to live.
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James Earl Watson
Why delete my comment?
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
For those claiming there are only TWO genders and that being LGBTQIA+ is "unnatural", "evil", that kids are being "forced to be it", etc. WRONG.
Genetically speaking, there are over 50 human gender variants, though outwardly, a person's gender can be born to show one of four physical appearances.
1) Born appearing to be male.
2) Born appearing to be female.
3) Born hermaphroditic, i.e. showing both gender traits.
4) Born genderless, showing no gender traits.
Now, that being said, it's not unusual for the PARENTS to choose their children's gender if they are born hermaphrodite or genderless. However, what the parents choose may NOT be what the gender of the child actually is. Nor does their outward appearance always show their true gender as well.
Allow me to explain.
You see, genetically speaking, as I stated earlier, there are multiple human genders, and there are many, many MORE gender variants. You can appear to be female by birth, and yet, genetically, be male. Internally, at the genetic level, your DNA shows that you are actually "wired" to be male, as it were.
You can appear to be male, by birth, and yet, genetically, be female. Internally, at the genetic level, your DNA shows you are actually "wired" to be female.
So, despite what some individuals may espouse and claim, there are FAR more than two human genders. Hell, even by birth, you can physically be one of four outward appearances. And it is, I assure you, all completely natural. There is no "god" factor with this, or a "devil" factor, or anything supernatural involved. For those who believe in such a thing.
It all comes down to how your DNA came together before you were ever born. So for those saying individuals who are LGBTQ+ are "unnatural", and those disparaging Trans individuals as "refusing their birth-right", you're wrong. It's completely natural. And, in fact, an individual transitioning to the other gender may, in fact, be simply gaining the physical appearance they were meant to have all along.
https://genetic.org/variations/
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John R
"Just because they are anti LGBQT doesn't mean that they will be placed in a hostile home."
The only reason someone who is anti-gay would seek to adopt a gay child is to harm that child. Sure, they won't bake a cake for a gay person ... but they will take them as defenseless children and raise them up with love.
Don't know if the religious right realizes they don't have credibility anymore. Jesus is not with them.
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James Thomas Mann III
There’s nothing like freedom of speech is there? (Happens to me all the time.) 😇😎
I fail to see how allowing anti-LGBTQ+ adults to adopt LGBTQ+ children is in any way in the best interest of those children! Children deserve homes where they will be loved for who and what they are, and certainly not forced to hide who they are or be forced into cruel therapies which are shown to not work - and increase the instance of depression and suicide.
That's why they should do an a welfare check on the On the adoption Parents, better then abortion, Right? I would say so
Exactly! I think this bill would do more harm than good. Children should never have to live in fear that they’ll be ridiculed or loved any less by parents who don't support, or are at least accepting of, their unique circumstances and challenges. It's hard enough for any kid in the system. Lets not add this to the mix. A child should be adopted by an individual or couple that will love & support them unconditionally who they are, not who they choose to love or be.