Children's Characters in Front of LGBT Flag
LGBT representation is increasing in children's media.

Evangelical Christians are afraid that there are some letters beyond the ABCs that Sesame Street will be teaching children soon: LGBTQ.

The controversy is over openly-gay Broadway star Billy Porter’s upcoming appearance on the long-running children’s show’s 51st season, and his decision to wear a velvet Christian Siriano tuxedo gown while talking with Big Bird, Elmo, Bert, and Ernie.

It's prompted conservative detractors to once again bemoan the appearance of LGBTQ individuals on children’s media. For his part, Billy Porter suggests that “if you don’t like it, don’t watch it.”

Instead of changing the channel, some politicians are calling for public funding cuts to PBS.

“Do you approve of your taxpayer dollars being used to promote the radical LGBTQ agenda?” questioned 47-year-old Arkansas Republican state senator Jason Rapert on Facebook. “I object to PBS and AETN rebroadcasting any LGBTQ activist programming using public funds. Not the right time or the right place.”

A Danger to Children?

Many evangelical Christians were similarly incensed. Evangelical website LifeSiteNews circulated a petition against Sesame Street, which they accused of trying to “sexualize children using drag queens” and claimed Porter’s appearance would leave “psychological scars” for children that are tantamount to “abuse”.

“Let children be children, and stop trying to force this corrupting and dangerous influence on the youth of America,” it states.

Porter, meanwhile, has questioned how these critics can conclude he's having some kind of “perverted demon sex” based solely on his wardrobe choices.

“Like, what about me singing with a penguin [on Sesame Street] has anything to do with what I’m doing in my bedroom? The really interesting thing for me is that that’s what it’s all about when it comes to LGBTQ people — the first thing everyone wants to talk about is how we having sex. Stay out of my bedroom and you will be fine.”

Of course, this debate goes far beyond one man in one dress.

More Children’s Shows Getting Inclusive

Last May, we wrote about how Alabama Public Television refused to air the season premiere of PBS' famed children's television show Arthur simply because it featured a same-sex marriage between two characters, reasoning that broadcasting it "would take away the choice of parents who feel it is inappropriate."

More recently, the conservative group One Million Moms has targeted PBS’s Clifford the Big Red Dog for introducing a character with two moms. “There was no disclaimer at the beginning of the episode where their relationship is explained,” noted the advocacy group, who then formally blasted PBS' inclusivity, as if ignoring the reality that LGBTQ families actually exist. “Many families have already discovered that PBS KIDS, largely supported by federal funds, is anything but family friendly."

‘Onward’ to Representation

Privately companies, meanwhile, seem less beholden to such criticisms. Disney/Pixar is set to release Onward, its first animated children's film to feature an openly LGBT character, a lesbian police officer and Cyclops named Officer Specter.

Contrary to the notion that radical LGBTQ activists have somehow infiltrated the media and are now determined to indoctrinate our children, movie producer Kori Rae explains that art often imitates life. “It just kind of happened. The scene, when we wrote it, was kind of fitting and it opens up the world a little bit, and that’s what we wanted.”

And that seems to be the case on Sesame Street, Clifford, and Arthur as well. There is no promotion of some shadowy ‘gay agenda’... unless you count depicting gay people as existing as some sort of agenda. The lesbian mothers on Clifford, for example, are shown in one episode as simply making dinner for their child. Officer Specter in Onward has a single line about how her girlfriend’s kid has got her “pulling her hair out.”

Are these benign depictions of completely normal LGBTQ people seriously worth getting worked up over?

64 comments

  1. Dan Anderson's Avatar Dan Anderson

    Personally, I find it offensive that anyone would make a big "stink" about homosexuality in human society. It is found throughout nature to exist in more than 1500 different mammalian species. I think the major problem is that most people are taking older writings and make the terminology of modern definition. If one reads the historicity and culture of the Biblical writings, one would see that so many people who may claim about homosexuality, in fact, does NOT say anything about it.

    Let's learn and grow, creating harmony and ceasing divisionism.

    1. flugo's Avatar flugo

      'dunderson': Only the intellectually ignorant or willfully biased will suggest that the Bible is silent on the subject of sexuality. The loving God hates homosexuality. His righteous wrath abides over these practicing sexual misfits. He has a horrible hell awaiting those who subvert and assault His original Genesis concept of the male and female union. You trivialize and try to explain away these truths at your own peril.

      1. Stephanie A Willey's Avatar Stephanie A Willey

        A loving God does not hate. A spiteful vengeful god hates.

        1. flugo's Avatar flugo

          'step on willy': Obviously, you do not know the God of the Bible . . . .His awesome love, nor His fierce wrath.

      2. Vern Dee Wall's Avatar Vern Dee Wall

        The bible explicitly lists the things God hates. There are six, and none is a person.

        Hell is a hole is a grave. Check any dictionary. Everybody goes there. There is no awareness.

        1. flugo's Avatar flugo

          'vd wail': You obviously do NOT know the Bible. God DOES hate people! Psalm 10:3 the coveter; 11:5 the wicked; Proverbs 16:18 false witness & :19 discord sower. These are just a few of many! You ought to do your homework before embarrassing yourself!

          1. Vern Dee Wall's Avatar Vern Dee Wall

            flugo, you need to learn better manners.

          2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

            Flugo, I know the Bible very well, and condemn it. I lead a Bible study group when I was fifteen years old, but less than two years later I was saved by Paganism, and was initiated into Wicca. Then, when I was eighteen, I peed on my Bible, and through it in the trash. Now, at 57 my sentiments remain unchanged.

            1. flugo's Avatar flugo

              'sea bee elf': Wow! And what has your disjointed, wayward, irrational and futile history proven?! That you're on the broad road that leads to eternal disaster. That your spiritual journey has led you to a 'forever dead end'. That only by realizing your present awful lifestyle offends a loving, holy God. That only His Son -Jesus- is your sole salvation from everlasting torment.

          3. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

            flugo, face it! The Bible sucks!!!

          4. Rodney Knight's Avatar Rodney Knight

            What do you think you just did flugo sow discord

      3. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

        Flugo Marx, for the 10,000th time!!!, neither homophobes' words put into God's mouth in the Bible, in order to make "Him" go along with them and confirm and reinforce their views about homosexuality nor your and other homophobes' words today, claiming to be "from God" for the same reason, actually tell us the view of God about homosexuality, but only what you have made "Him" say to suit yourselves about that, as though God were a big ventriloquist's dummy sitting on your laps!! Your problem with homosexuality is your problem with it, not God's!! You don't speak for God and the Bible doesn't speak for God when both of you are espousing bigotry, narrow-mindedness, persecution, oppression, repression, and hate, since God isn't any of those things and doesn't want people to be practicing them on other people!! God is love, as that Bible that you and other homophobes are always thumping tells even you, though you refuse to listen and accept it!!! Whatever is contrary to love is contrary to God and not of God. Homophobia is contrary to love and so contrary to God and not of God!! Your trying to twist things again and say that you are "warning gay people against the spiritual dangers and Hellfire that they are facing if they don't repent, out of love for them" still doesn't make any of your homophobic bigotry God's view of homosexuality and is only proof of your own bigotry and attempt to justify it to yourself and others, as other hateful bigots have also always tried to do about their bigotry, claiming "it is from God"!! God's curse is especially on you and all others who do that and misrepresent Him!!

        1. flugo's Avatar flugo

          'jonny fartin': You touted: 'God is love' You've conveniently (willfully or ignorantly) presented only one side of the coin. God HATES! John 3:36 His wrath on the unbeliever; Psalm 10:3 the coveter; 11:5 the wicked; Proverbs 6:18 the false witness & :19 the discord sower. These are a few of many instances of His hatred for people/groups. In the future you'd do well to do your homework before embarrassing yourself.

          1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

            Flugo Marx, you would do much better than you're doing by actually reading and understanding my and other people's posts here (which is beyond your ability, but anyway) before embarassing yourself and making a bigger fool of yourself in everyone's eyes here than you already are!! The instances of "God's hatred for people and groups" that you refer to are all examples of people's (that is, Bible writers) putting their words into God's mouth to make Him agree with them and reinforce their views, which I just told you about in my post above!! Do you have a short term memory loss, as well as mental incapacity and disorder?!! To make it clearer to you and all the other people here in the cheap seats, there are NO!!!! instances in the Bible of God's actually hating anyone or any groups, but only of Bible writers putting their words into God's mouth and making Him express their hatred for people or groups. Only the love in the Bible is actually from God, while all of the hate in the Bible is from people who just made God say all of that in order to "justify" themselves, since otherwise God would just be an overblown version of you and all other bigots and hypocrites and religious phonies, such as yourself, which would be very disrespectful for anyone to believe and is very disrespectful for YOU!!! to believe about God!! The Scriptures themselves tell us that God doesn't think the same things or feel the same way about things that people do (which He would be doing if He hated just as we hate!) in Isaiah 55:8-9, which says: "'For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways' declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so My ways are higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts...". None of that would be true if God hates just like human beings hate!! So, is God's not thinking and acting and feeling as human beings do, as these verses just said, the truth or is God's hating just as human beings do the truth because you can't have it both ways!!! Either this Scripture is true or God's hating like people do is true. Which is it?!! Also, you are always making up your retarded distortions of my and other people's names in here, which proves you to be a very immature, disrespectful, and unreasonable person, anyway!! So, how could something like you possibly know or understand what God thinks or feels or the truth about God when you don't even know the truth about yourself?!! Grow up, as I told you before!!

      4. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

        Flugo Marx, only the intellectually ignorant or willfully biased will suggest that the homophobia in the Bible actually came from God, instead of, quite obviously, from the men who wrote the Bible and put their words into God's mouth!! Come out of that darkness, thou vile sinner and repent of it and be cleansed of it!! I cast you out, unclean spirit!!! Do you like it as much receiving that as giving it? If so, I can give you a lot more of it! Just let me know.

      5. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

        Then, Miss Thing, there was Jesus and St.Judas. They were quite a hot number, and turned your old testament god into a liar, who needs to bow down to me, so I can wash his mouth out with soap!

    2. flugo's Avatar flugo

      The Bible has much to say about sexuality and relationships. Only the willfully biased or academically ignorant would deny this. God has a man/woman design originating in Genesis and amplified elsewhere.The misfits of the LGBTQXYZ ilk are abusing and insulting the Holy Loving God with their lifestyle.

      1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

        Flugo Marx, it is actually you and other misfits like you who are abusing and insulting the Holy Loving God with your lifestyle of actually practicing hate, while pretending to yourselves and others that you are being "loving"!! But then, that is what you Pharisees have always done, anyway, and will always do, which is why Jesus called your kind "whited sepulchres, clean on the outside, but inside full of dead men's bones and all corruption" and "a brood of vipers" and asked "how shall you escape damnation?". I don't expect to ever be able to get through to something like you, anymore than Jesus was ever able to get through to the scribes and Pharisees, because your heart is too hardened against the truth and love, just as their hearts were! If he couldn't get through to your kind, what chance do I have of getting through to a Pharisee such as you today? But it isn't necessary for me to ever get through to you in order for you to still know that I and other people here are wise to you and on to your games and you aren't fooling anybody with all of that, except yourself and other easily fooled and conned people here!! Then, just go ahead and play all the games with yourself and them that you want and convince yourselves of any nonsense that you like, as such immature, unrealistic, and unreasonable people as all of you have always done and will always do!! Knock yourselves out!!

    3. BE's Avatar BE

      Dan

      Probably should check Romans 1 and Leviticus 18

      1. flugo's Avatar flugo

        'be': Excellent and pertinent reference

      2. flugo's Avatar flugo

        Excellent !

  1. Alan Meunier's Avatar Alan Meunier

    It is 2020, either change with the times or find yourself extinct. Survival of those who can adapt.

  1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

    The way things are going in a really strange way nowadays I am surprised there are no pedophile characters yet in children’s media. All in good time I guess, after all, it is 2020 and sadly extreme liberalism appears to be on the rise.

    🦁❤️

    1. rev.heidianne's Avatar rev.heidianne

      I found your comment about pedophilia characters in the media disgusting, rude, and horrible to put it mildly. Homosexuality is found in animals and us human animals and does not hurt any one, while pedophilia hurts children. The LGBTQ community doesn't hurt anyone! I'm surprised that someone who I thought was an educated and compassionate person, is an ass. I don't think you or funny either. I don't know what made you decide to belong to this community to begin with. I guess, it's like the LGBTQ and the reason why you joined, it's none of my business. I do hope you decide either realize your stupid comment and apologize.

      1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

        Thank you heidianne for your comment. In reality, Pedophilia only hurts children if that love of children is acted upon. Like homosexuality, people either act upon it, or they remain closeted. There could be more people affected by pedophilia, or homosexuality, or those who fall into the category of LGBTQrs than any of us realize. All need our love and understanding, don’t you think?

        I’m totally okay with you objecting to any of my comments. It would of course be wonderful if we had a utopian society of everyone agreeing with everybody else, but I guess that is never going to happen, so if we do disagree it would be nice if we could all do so with love.

        🦁❤️

    2. Quinn's Avatar Quinn

      Attempting to make a link from pedophiles to LGBT Americans is really ignorant and petty.

      1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

        It’s a tongue-in-cheek remark Sir Quinn. Having said that, I am sure that 50 years ago someone could have made the same remark as yourself in trying to link LGBT with mainstream religion, or children’s characters, it would have been unheard of. So what will the future really hold? Only time will tell!

        🦁❤️

        1. Quinn's Avatar Quinn

          Nothing tongue-in-cheek about it, it is rude hurtful and ignorant. You are tying the crime of pedophilia with individuals that are LGBT, you are further attempting to make a connection between pedophilia and “liberalism“ in an attempt to denigrate as many groups as you can in one comment.

          1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

            Im sorry you see it that way Quin. Pedophilia isn’t a crime of course. There are many who are afflicted with those thoughts and never act upon them. Just like there are many people affected by feelings of homosexuality, and equally don’t act upon their feelings. I apologize if I hit on a nerve of yours in anyway.

            Peace!

            🦁❤️

      2. flugo's Avatar flugo

        'go in': There IS a link between the LGBTQXYZ-ers and pedophiles! Both their practices insult the original designs of Almighty God. Both lifestyles are sinful and an abomination that a loving, righteous God abhors. To trivialize this; to rationalize this; to scoff at this idea is to court eternal disaster. But, our loving God has the only solution . . . . Jesus!

        1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

          Are you talking about that same loving god with anger management issues that killed little children, pregnant women, and condoned slavery, and stoning people to death?

          🦁❤️

  1. Tom's Avatar Tom

    Lionheart...Respectfully...as i have said before, i respect most of your well thought out opinions, including the humorous ones...however, i feel that in this instance you and the "evangelicals" are missing the point as to the best way for us to live in this world, which is with love, compassion and understanding; not prejudice and bias...and, as has been said, sex is a limited aspect of the lives of everyone; it usually does not define the quality of people...there is nothing wrong with the media reflecting life as it is; these programs are doing just that...in a reserved, tasteful way...sadly, once again the "evangelicals" are trying to control everyone else...Peace...Tom B

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      I am actually in total agreement with you Sir Thomas. My comment, as you will see from my clarification above, was not meant to portray prejudice and bias. Love, compassion, understanding, and of course humor, is also my philosophy for getting through this life. Peace ✌🏼 to you also, my friend.

      🦁❤️

  1. Quinn's Avatar Quinn

    I could care less what Evangelicals think. I lost interest in them when they began to denigrate LGBT Americans, and widely support a bigoted misogynistic President.

  1. Lori Mongillo's Avatar Lori Mongillo

    It's always wonderful to see how such very Christian people are so filled with love for all humanity. These evangelical people live in a deep dark hole and can't see past their little narrow opening. Love is what connects, hate divides.

    1. flugo's Avatar flugo

      'lo mo': Your misuse of the words 'hate' and 'love' is ludicrous. Your comments epitomize the deluge of the 'tolerate', 'accept', 'love everybody', inclusive' blather so prevalent today. Christians following their Heavenly Father will 'hate' as He does. And, nowhere in the Bible does it suggest 'loving' someone's sinful lifestyle such as the LGBTQxyz-ers.

    2. flugo's Avatar flugo

      You epitomize the popular blather about 'hate' and 'love'. Your concept reeks of inclusiveness, toleration, and 'everybody love everybody'. We Christians though, who follow God's example, hates as He hates; loves as He loves. The Bible is replete with examples of this. The LGBTQXYZ-er is severely warned as to the eternal peril of their continued active lifestyle!

      1. Lori Mongillo's Avatar Lori Mongillo

        Wow. Your arrogance in your projection of who God is, is truly coming from your own hatred. No one KNOWS who God is and how God thinks. In even saying that you do violates everything Jesus taught. It is obvious you ARE in that deep dark hole. I hope you find your way out. I will pray for you.

      2. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

        But again, Flugo Marx, you have no proof that God hates homosexuality just because of words that were put into His mouth thousands of years ago by homophobic bigots, the same as yourself, to make Him agree with them and reinforce their views! You don't love as God loves, either, because He makes his rain to fall on the evil and the good and makes His sun to shine on the just and the unjust (that is, loves everyone equally, whether that fits into your ideas and theology about Him or not!). Your "warning gay people about their spiritual danger and Hellfire, if they don't repent, out of love for them" is your trying to have your cake and eat it, too, and have it both ways, and actually practice hate, while pretending to be practicing love. Love for all people sounds "soft" and "weak" to you because it wouldn't allow you to practice the actual hate, disguised as "love", that you want to do! Jesus even showed love and concern for a Pagan Roman soldier and his sick and dying servant and for the Samaritan woman at the well and for the other Samaritan woman who came to him asking help for her daughter and said "even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from the master's table", in response to his seeming indifference in order to test her, which if he had believed as you do, he wouldn't have done! The Pharisees, the same as you, covered over their hatefulness and indifference to other people with a show and pretence of "godliness"! Read the 13th chapter of 1st Corinthians, sometime, and try to actually understand it!!

        1. flugo's Avatar flugo

          'jonny fartin': Your arduous, unwieldy and contorted diatribe is a personification of 'academic masturbation', where ONLY YOU get any pleasure/benefit from your lame pseudo-academic blather. Wake up and smell the coffee!

          1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

            Flugo Marx, anything that you're too afraid and don't want to consider or take a chance of its getting through to you is automatically called or considered "arduous, unwieldy, and contorted" and "academic masturbation" and "lame pseudo-academic blather" by you as an evasion of listening to it and letting it get through to you!! You are still using retarded distortions of my and other people's names, which is just more evidence against you every time of your immaturity and stupidity!! It isn't intelligent at all for you to keep confirming our opinion of you and giving us more proof that it is true and to not know or care that you are being insulted!!

          2. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

            Flugo Marx, all of your "arduous, unwieldy, contorted, academic masturbation, lame pseudo-academic blather" BS is just your evasion of answering any of the questions and points in my post to you, though I have no doubt that any post longer than "if" to you is too much for you to understand!! Why won't you answer the question of how God can hate, the same as human beings hate, when Isaiah 55:8-9 says: "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so My ways are higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts"? You don't answer the question because even something as unreasonable as you knows that there is no sensible answer to how God could hate and still be above human feelings and actions, and you just use all of your EVASIVE BLATHER!!! to avoid answering the question!! You don't answer any of the questions or points in my posts to you because you can't answer them and so you just, like the coward you are, evade answering them!! You are also still using your retarded distortions of my and other people's names, which only proves further that you are a very immature, unreasonable, and stupid person!!

      3. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

        Interestingly though, we still have no conclusive proof any god exists. Deism appears to be all wrapped up in fables and myth, so it’s pointless addressing passages from an old book. We might as well point to passages in Harry Potter, and in fact there are some very interesting points made about life by Professor Dumbledore that I much prefer, and possibly are just as valid than from any old book written by men (or women) hundreds of years ago.

        🦁❤️

        1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

          Lionheart, I'm as much of a disbeliever in the mythology and fables and fairy tales in the Bible and other religions and "holy" books as you are, but no belief in any of that is necessary in order to believe in love and the basic and intricate ordering of the universe, which a totally mindless and indifferent nature is incapable of doing for itself, anymore than it is necessary to believe that Time is an old man with a long gray beard and a scythe, in order to know that time exists. The calibration, synchronization, coordination, and symmetry in the universe (our being just the right distance from the sun for life to even be possible here, which it wouldn't be if the Earth were a million miles closer or farther away, etc.) just aren't and can't be the work of an unthinking and uncaring universe. Even a motor and propeller in a microscopic creature points to some intelligent power's putting it there because if motors don't happen among human beings until some human being designs and builds them, that same consistent logic should apply to a motor and propeller in a microscopic creature. These and many other similar evidences are the proof of God's existence, if we will only consider them and use deductive reasoning and logic, without its being necessary for God to part the clouds, stick his enormous head down through them, and scream at the world that He exists in order to convince us that He or She or It exists. This has nothing to do with "Virgin Births", "Immaculate Conceptions", "walking on water" "talking snakes or mules", or any other mythological elements in religion, which I agree can and should be dismissed as irrational. They were never meant to be taken literally, anyway, and were only symbolic and poetic expressions and reinforcements of faith, which many people ran off the end of the earth with and took as "actual occurences".

          1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

            It’s an interesting thought Sir John. At first glance one could look at our planet and say that because its cosmological geometry within the solar system, that sustains life as we know it, a deity must have had a hand in it. That of course is pure supposition and of course is fallacious. If the earth was not at its current location/distance from the sun it couldn’t sustain life as we know it, just like all the other planets in fact don’t. Out of the billions of celestial objects in our universe one could say that it’s pure synchronicity that there has to be at least one place where everything eventually falls into place. Place an eternal monkey in front of a typewriter and it could eventually type a sentence or even a sonnet. That wouldn’t mean a deity made it do it. It means it just eventually had to happen sometime in the billions of years it had time to type it.

            The truth of the matter is that no one knows for certain how the universe ever came into existence no matter how complex it appears to be. Religionists will say a deity was involved because it helps to justify their faith, and that’s ok, but mankind still doesn’t know for sure.

            It could be said that your motor/propeller philosophy could in many ways be more complex in its design than trillions of just “spherical” objects in the universe of matter/gas. Thanks for your post though. Peace!

            🦁❤️

            1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

              Lionheart, I appreciate your reply to my post and you are very welcome. However, I must still object to your surmise that an eternal monkey might, eventually, after billions or trillions of years, be able to type a sentence or even a sonnet, as an alternative to any God's having created the universe, when we all know that no average or even extraordinary monkey could even put one word together by typing, much less an entire sentence or a sonnet, even in trillions of trillions of years or any amount of time that you or anyone could ever conceive of! But even if, by some miracle (which you don't believe in), a monkey could type one word or sentence in eternity, that wouldn't enable him to do all the coordination, synchronization, calibration, and attunement which are necessary to interlink the functions of a universe, and would require a trillion genius monkeys, all miraculously getting it right, consulting and coordinating with each other to get it even close to right! So, that scenario is infinitely less reasonable and realistic than just saying that a Divine Mind (call it "God" or whatever you like) had to have created the universe and synchtonized and coordinated all of these aspects of it. You object to the idea of God because of the lies and fairy tales that have been spread about this Power by people in ancient times and today, who made "Him" command or do or say whatever they wanted "Him" to do, but this Power doesn't stop people from lying about it or care what they say about it, except that it hurts themselves. God never ordered the extermination or enslavement of any group or any of the vile actions that have been attributed to "Him", but people who wrote the Bible and other religious books and put their words into God's mouth have ordered all of these things through "Him"! So, why hold God responsible and reject the idea of a God because of what these people have done and said about Him, anymore than hating movie stars and celebrities mentioned in The National Enquirer because of the lies told about them in that tabloid?! Yes, nobody can know exactly how the universe, which is billions of years old, began, but if you come to a clearing in a forest and see a house standing there, it isn't reasonable or realistic to think that it sprouted up out of the ground and that no intelligence had any part in the construction and design of it. Neither is it reasonable or realistic to think that the calibration, synchronization, and coordination in the universe just happened without a Divine Intelligence (above all of the lies and fairy tales told about it) having a very big part in the construction and design of it and we should just follow suit from the example of the house in the clearing and think consistently and logically about this.

              1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

                I actually believe I am thinking clearly and logically when I state that there is still no demonstrable evidence to support a God exists. My logic and reasoning in not believing a god exists has nothing to do with what is written in the Bible but purely based on the lack of evidence of religious claims that a God exists.

                If I saw a house, or a car engine, or some other complex structure floating around in the Universe I would say that some logical intelligence put them together. When I see random molecules and atoms forming themselves together due to their mass, and chemical structure, along with all their physical constraints, with very little form whatsoever other than what they have themselves formed throughout the history of the universe I don’t see any reason to assume that a logical intelligence put them all together or created them.

                If there was some omnipotent and omniscient supreme being of super high intelligence, I very much doubt he would be interested and telling mankind that foreskins need to be removed off penises, or infants need to die because of his anger towards someone else that he was powerless to control. Though that might sound to be a rather stupid statement can you see how ridiculous religion has become? Thank goodness these are all fables and fiction that mankind has tried to turn into truth

                Thanks for your input though.

                🦁❤️

                1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                  Lionheart, I'm honestly not here to convert you or anyone to my thinking or to argue with people, but only to listen to other points of view, so long as they are respectful of others (unlike Flugo Marx and some others) and to broaden my thinking and correct it when it is wrong, believe it or not! It seems like a contradiction in terms and illogical, frankly, to me that a mindless universe could still come up with all of these intelligent laws for itself and interlink everything (how could intelligence come out of unintelligence and mindlessness?!), but if that makes sense to you, whatever floats your boat, different strokes for different folks, and all that! It's difference of opinion that makes horse races, as Mark Twain said, and makes life interesting. The world is never going to have very many reasonable people in it or have all of the unreasonable people just in religion, anyway. I agree with you 1,000 % that some omnipotent and omniscient supreme being wouldn't be interested in or telling mankind to cut foreskins off penises or saying that infants need to die because of his anger towards someone else, which is why I don't believe that he ever did any of that and that Bible writers just made all of that up about "Him" and made "Him" say and do whatever they wanted to suit themselves. The "God" of the Bible is a fictional character, absolutely, and an overwhelming amount of religion is just ridiculous and fables and stupid and fiction, as you say, but I still maintain that none of that has anything to do with the actual reality behind the universe. I believe that you don't just reject "God" because of the fables in the Bible, but also because of your perception, at least, of "lack of evidence for God's existence" in the universe to support religious claims. But still have to wonder why you would keep bringing up the fables in the Bible, which we have already agreed are lies and nonsense and everyone else really knows, inside, are lies and nonsense, if that has nothing or much less to do with your rejection of God's existence? Anyway, peace and be well!

                  1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

                    I think we are on similar paths John. The only reason I raise the Bible in my comments is for others who might just be reading our comments for the first time. I’m glad we are both in agreement on the Bible.

                    Just let me address one if your statements:

                    “It seems like a contradiction in terms and illogical, frankly, to me that a mindless universe could still come up with all of these intelligent laws for itself and interlink everything (how could intelligence come out of unintelligence and mindlessness?!), but if that makes sense to you, whatever floats your boat.....”

                    It actually doesn’t float my boat. I have no answers whatsoever as to how this could all come about. Yes, we could say that some intelligent being/entity could have done it, but in reality we still just don’t know. We can presume and assume anything we want to, but of course in reality at the end of the day we just don’t know. From a solipsist point of view it just might be that all this is a dream and the only people that are really here in this world are me and you.🤪

                    🦁❤️

        2. Vern Dee Wall's Avatar Vern Dee Wall

          Our God is the God of rightness. If you don't follow rightness it doesn't matter much what you do instead.

          1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

            What in fact is “a god of rightness”? Doesn’t it state in your book that your mythical god killed the first born children due to his anger management issue with Pharaoh? He also condoned slavery and even listed how they were to be punished. He also condoned stoning people to death. It doesn’t get much brutal than that, so I’m just left wondering where you got your term of “a god of rightness” from? He’s certainly not the type of deity I would ever follow, if there was one. Someone needs to punch him on his nose for his brutality. Just saying!

            🦁❤️

            1. Vern Dee Wall's Avatar Vern Dee Wall

              You are talking about a time of war. That means breaking things and killing people. It is not right to lose a war.

              1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

                No I am not talking about a time of war Vern. Your god instructed someone to stone a man to death for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

                Your god could easily have dealt with Pharaoh in a personal way if he so wished without having to kill little children. That was so totally unnecessary. It seems to me that your god has very poor morals. If that’s the best your omnipotent, and omniscient god can come up with to solve problems no wonder this world of ours is in a mess. He seems to be devoid of good ideas. Tell him to come and see me if he wants any sensible solutions 🤪

                🦁❤️

          2. flugo's Avatar flugo

            Right on!

  1. Rodney Knight's Avatar Rodney Knight

    Well here we go again a few ultra Christian folks trying to tell other how to live as Quinn said I care nought what the evangelicals say many people on here have made good and valid points me personally I tend to treat people as they treat me I care jot what they do in there own house bedroom or what ever and I tend to like the Vulcan philosophy "Infinate diversity in Infinate combination" Ill say one last thing this kind of thing really bugs me and I have and will always rail against it no matter what it is hate is hate it has no shades if you can't live with people move to an island the moon Outer Mongolia I don't care but don't expect me to sit quietly while you spuy your hate.

  1. Vern Dee Wall's Avatar Vern Dee Wall

    Aside from your feelings on the subject, any change in public morality is a symptom of impending cultural collapse. Symptoms have been showing since shortly after WW2 and getting more numerous. It's not that we should be worried about the children, that is merely a distraction. We should be worried about the nation.

  1. Chris's Avatar Chris

    Frankly, I don't care about the 'Murkan Christian Agenda. They cry and moan when not allowed to push their "beliefs" into law or persecute people for not living in a way they want others to live. It was Christians who killed people for saying the Earth revolves around the Sun. Christians killed people for being different, for believing something else, for any reason at all. And any time someone dares stand up to them they complain about some war against them.

    Look, it's simple. You don't like gay people, don't watch the shows. Don't read the books. Take your closed little minds elsewhere. Despite what you want not everyone follows your deity. Keep your hatred and discrimination out of my life because my life isn't affecting yours in any way, shape, or form.

  1. Vern Dee Wall's Avatar Vern Dee Wall

    The biggest problem is that few people know what the words mean. Love is defined in Luke 10:25-37. It is when you are aware of a need and you take care of it. According to Genesis chapter 2, a man needs companionship from a woman. People who suggest that a same-sex relationship can take care of that need are not advocating love, they are suggesting a lousy substitute. It's not that it is a sin, it's that the substitute is not good enough to maintain a healthy society.

    Some people protest that a gay relationship is this that and the other. Well, I offer freedom: go build your society someplace else and show us what you can do. That is what we straight people did and we want to keep our society the way it is.

    1. flugo's Avatar flugo

      'vd wail': 'None is a person', you said (04 Mar). You need to learn how to post comments that are factual; that show scholarship; that evidence maturity.

      1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

        Are you suggesting that your comment starting with: ‘vd wail’ evidences maturity? Could it be said that you too need to learn how to post comments with maturity? Just asking!

        Will your reply to me, if you do, start with the same level of immaturity?

        🦁❤️

        1. flugo's Avatar flugo

          'lying fart'; 'Immaturity'? What a narrow-minded, childish observation! Ever heard of 'creativity'?

    2. flugo's Avatar flugo

      Purty darn good summation!

  1. Mark Hannon's Avatar Mark Hannon

    Shut the show off if you don't like it. Otherwise open your mind to the fact that the entire population can be represented in the media.

  1. Ilmenheru Terikson's Avatar Ilmenheru Terikson

    Evangelicals are about as far from actual follwoers of the ancient faith that arose in the middle east roughly 2,000 years ago. That faith was built on 100% pacifism. They would not even resist when rounded up and thrown into the arena's with lions. They wouldnt even defend themselves from the beasts. We also know that they were pretty close to what we now call vegans, as they avoided eating living creatures. Their diet was largely bread, eggs, cheese and fruits and vegetables. This is in part because christians at that time rejected all the old testament ways. Thus the entire idea of the new covenant. Jesus himself was said to have argued with the rabbinical scholars in his youth, seeing the inherent flaw in the moral of the story of Cain and Abel. That God showing favor for an offering of meat but not for grain was itself creating discord between the brothers.

    Jesus or at least the earliest writings of those early christians, paint a very clear picture that Jesus saw the old jewish faith as terribly flawed and fostering of an us versus them view of the world.

    Now for some reason many modern wannabe splinter groups of the christian faith seem to not even grasp the actual history of the faith, and seem to gravitate towards basically acting like a jewish splinter cult instead, talking about armed violence against those they see as sinful and worshipping false idols and the devil and other such nonsense and the tripe they spew is built upon personal bias and willful ignorance. Which they need to improve their view of themselves. its only by tearing down others that they can build up their own pulpit to look down from and pretend they are flawless.

Leave a Comment

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:
Don't have an account yet? Create Account
Have a question? Ask us now!
Welcome. If you have any questions, I'm happy to help.