In a 5-4 decision on Tuesday, the Supreme Court upheld President Trump's controversial travel ban which prohibits travel to America from seven countries: Iran, Yemen, Libya, Syria, Somalia, Venezuela and North Korea.
After being announced back in January 2017, the travel ban sparked immediate national outrage and led to raucous protests at airports across the country. Opponents of the policy denounced it as a de facto "Muslim ban" and accused the president of intentionally discriminating against Islamic peoples. Although there were several non-Muslim countries on Trump's list, critics insisted the policy was motivated by a clear hostility toward Muslims. As evidence, they pointed to his harsh anti-Muslim rhetoric during the presidential campaign.
After numerous states mounted legal challenges, a lower court eventually ruled the travel ban was unconstitutional. However, this latest Supreme Court ruling overturns that decision, and the White House is now free to prevent people traveling to the U.S. from the countries in question.
Religious Leaders Ask: "Is This Justice?"
Reactions to the Supreme Court decision were predictably split along partisan lines. But one contingent was especially vocal in the wake of the ruling: evangelical leaders. The president of World Relief, an evangelical-run refugee organization, issued a strong statement following the news:
"While we respect the authority of the Supreme Court on these matters, we also believe it is vital that we, as a nation, affirm our core commitment to religious liberty for all people. Though the court may have found these restrictions to be lawful, that does not necessarily mean they are right or just A person's religious tradition should not disqualify them, explicitly or implicitly, from being considered for a visa to enter the United States."
Evangelical activist Lisa Sharon Harper also weighed in against the policy, saying:
"Law and policy serve as sacred documents for the secular world; reflecting back to society what it believes are good and just ways to live together in the world. What message does it send to our Muslim neighbors, many of whom are fleeing persecution, when U.S. law declares that it is fine to break families and purge people groups and let them die based on fear of the other?"
"Matter of National Security"
However, some evangelical leaders backed the decision, arguing that the Bible's message of "love thy neighbor" is not a mandate to let whoever wants to enter America do so. Barring people from coming to the U.S especially potential Islamic extremists is simply a matter of public safety, they point out.
Among the groups that voiced support for President Trump was the Faith & Freedom Coalition, which released a public statement on the matter:
"The over 1.8 million members and supporters of the Faith & Freedom Coalition support the Trump administration's policy of strictly vetting foreign nationals from countries plagued by civil war, terrorism and radical Islamic extremism that pose a danger to our national security."
Evangelicals Unfriendly Toward Immigration
Amid the heated immigration debate of recent years, an interesting phenomenon has been observed: despite espousing common Christian values such as compassion for others and helping the less fortunate, studies show that evangelicals are among the groups most opposed to immigration.
A recent poll from Pew Research Center found that over 2/3 of white evangelicals believe the U.S. has no responsibility to accept refugees. A similar poll conducted in February 2017 showed that 76% of white evangelicals approved of Trump's travel ban.
These results beg the question: what's driving the hostility toward immigrants? Is it simply a matter of economic and job issues? Safety concerns? Or perhaps there's something deeper at play: an underlying fear of "the other" whether that be people of a different religion, a different language, or a different nationality.
Are religious groups right to oppose immigration, or does this stance conflict with the moral foundations on which their faith is built?
91 comments
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Robert Messmer
We could always simply admit the fact that the travel ban is not about religion but is designed for national security. It may not actually improve our national security but that is the motive behind the ban. Iran, Yemen, Libya, Syria, Somalia, Venezuela and North Korea what per cent of the populations of either Venezuela or North Korea is Muslim? I would bet you would be hard pressed to find even a single individual in either country that is Muslim. The other 5 countries have large populations of Muslims. That is true but Indonesia has more Muslims than all 5 of those countries put together. There are about 50 Muslim majority countries in the world so you are talking about 10% of the total. What kind of ban only applies to a tiny part of the total? Back during the days of segregation the signs saying "No Coloreds" did not apply to only a few - those signs meant that if you were not white they didn't care where you came from, stay out.
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Reb TK
Every immigrant group that has ever come to this country has faced some sort of opposition. There have always been people to fan the flames of mistrust. At the same time there have always been people who welcome centerall comers in peril, as it says on the Statue of Liberty. That said, every group has those it accepts and those who are viewed as untouchables or worse.
Oddly the one held in contempt by one group may be held in the very highest esteem among others.
A matter of perspective.
Recently I have been dismayed at the increased reporting in the media of worried whites reporting even very minor concerns about people of colour to legal authorities...children selling bottles of water... someone wore socks at a pool... whatever. I a not sure why all of a sudden these indignities have caught the medias' attentions...because these indignities have been going on for a very, very, very, long time....
Fear, a sense of otherness, a sense of scarcity and that someone is going to take something away from us or somehow victimize us...these are the demons that racists and fascists and other social miscreants prey upon and exploit.
There is a very interesting piece in the most recent issue of The Smithsonian about a region of France that has, for a long time, not only welcomed, but even put themselves at risk for "the other" the oppressed, Protestants fleeing Catholic oppression back in the day, Jews and others persecuted under the Nazis and even now , immigrants and others at risk....
And they have done this for generations and continue to do so.
I have been inspired, I am in the process of finding out what I, myself, can do to sponsor immigrants from other lands who are at risk.
But once here... would they be at bigger risk from the racists and the fascists in our "free" country?
Perhaps if it is worth the risk to them, it is worth the risk to me... and to all of us.
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Richard Cornell
Under Shari Law a non-Muslim is a pig and an ape.So all who are on this site. Oink! You want people who come to the US to be check out ahead of time.To have an education so as being able to get a decent job. People with money helps. Want people who are healthy not old and will go on medicare/medicaid. Want people who can pay taxes. How many of you folks would like a person with TB to breath the same air in a room with you. Ever hear about Ebola still with us, but not in the US. A person going to Mexico from Africa that has been infected with Ebola will not show symptoms anywhere from 2-21 days. After that time Heel breaks lose.
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Gwendolyn Lord
Now here is an easy answer to the question of immigrants in Amerika.... 1. If you are not a Native American, then your family were immigrants, whether by choice or force. 2. Last I looked in the Bible Jesus was all-inclusive. He never turned folk away. And as to separating children from their mothers! "Suffer the little children to come unto me." would seem to indicate compassion and tenderness towards little ones, not oppression, brutality and heartlessness.
If we spent less money on corporate ass-kissing, taxed the rich, and disengaged from foreign wars, we could feed the WORLD, let alone provide for care for those here..Then Amerika could become America.
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM
Absolutely Gwendolyn!
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Lady Ananya
This sounds more political than religious. Than why do you consider yourselves clergy? What happened to acts of kindness? Love thy neighbor... and harm ye none.......in other words “What you put out comes back”. Put yourselves in check!!! Get over yourself. We are clergy to do God or Goddess’s work. Otherwise resign!
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM
Yes!!!!!
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Tom
Thank goodness the travel ban was upheld. Muslims are the most sensitive, whiney group of freedom haters ever. Try to be anything but muslim and heterosexual in a muslim country and see what happens.
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Christian
Open minded mythology has little to do with Nation-State policies on national security designed to reduce the risks of criminal and terrorist activities.
That said, what needs FIXED are the failed governments of troubled nation states.
It is INSANE to think people must literally ESCAPE their home country and travel thousands of miles at great risk just to find a job.
People should not have to come to USA. If those other countries focused on the TWO great ideals : God is Love, Love LOVE, Love your neighbor and yourself. They would have less problems.
Also, USA does not hold Patents on the BILL OF RIGHTS and on capitalism.
ANY country is welcome to COPY the USA system in whole or in part.
IF failing countries adopted Better rights and better economics - they could reproduce successful results there, at home, for themselves.
NO ONE should have to hop in boats or hide in trucks to 'Escape'. What they need is more real world success right there at home, and then avoid dangerous long journeys.
What can we all do to help other cpuntries adopt the very best practices in Love, Faith, Hope, Economics, Business, Medicine, infrastructure, water, utilities, etc.
Any success stories from Asia or USA or Russia or Europe can also be duplicated in struggling areas!
Never give up Hope !
Always Hold on to Love!
Have FAITH and HOPE in LOVE.
The TRUTH sets us all Free!
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Lady Ananya
Thank you!
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Rev. Lul Admasachew
Moses has led people out of Egypt to a desert. It was the people themselves, after living for 40 years in the desert, that have led themselves to the land of milk and honey.
The Europeans have migrated to America, being led by the messages of the discovery of the land by Christopher Columbus and Amerigo Vespusi. No matter, the native Indians were the original inhabitants of the continent. Generally, given the sparsely populated nature of the land, it was possible to accomadate the newly arriving immigrants. Similar stories can be found regarding Australia, the European migration and the original inhabitants that are known as the Aborigionists.
The world is now overpopulated. Ecoscide and ethocide is therefore unethical. The dictums of diversity can also be transmitted by using technology and the internet. Thus, migration of any nature is really unreasonable. Virtual educational hubs and tourism do also enable people to cross boarders in a new and empowering way. Medical and other service orientated innovations are entering new markets as well, contributing to egalitarianism. The bottomline is to support the millenium development goal and to enable people to reeneter their ethnic enclaves and nothing else. Man made facets such as war that create push factors in migration and image creation that do not expose the challenges of migration to developed or Arab league countries such as hard labour, being deskilled and modern day slavery should be discouraged. Immigration can expose many to the violation of their culture and way of being anyway due to misconception, rascism and labour anomalies that exert themseves in the form of caring capitalism.
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Rev. Lul Admasachew
I need to add that the title of the blog is somewhat strong. No matter, it is a matter of not only opinion but also experience which shapes up the principles that we follow regarding immigration. Supporting potential migrants within their own soil is kindness too. Developed nations have their own impoverishment including cultural incompetence, homepesssness, joblessness, service malpractice as well as social sercurity sanction. Thus, opening our eyes to the grim reality and acting out faith is a must.
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Duane Smith
Brothers and Sisters, I am not going to argue about the president, he is who was elected. The issue is about open immigration to the USA. We need better background checks and to stop worrying about what can't go around. If the country you are fleeing is so bad, change it and don't run away like a Coward. First Americans, what a laugh. The evidence shows there were whites here over 10,000 years ago who were wiped out by the other migraters.
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM
Really? Smith, take your racist and ignorant self elsewhere. We do not need your vitriol here on our minister's site. You are not a brother/sister in any way to diss us First Americans, Pilgrim. Your "evidence" is ridiculous and not evidence at all. Goodbye.
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Ian Shaw
I'm speaking of Australia. I was raised in an education system which taught, Captain James Cook discovered Australia Australia wasn't empty it was already owned and managed by one of the oldest communities on earth. I accept that if the James Cook hadn't come here the country would have been taken soon after by another race that possessed superior weapons. Without prejudice, so was America, It's only in the past 50 years that the white people have began recognising our original inhabitants and still to slowly.
Our now dominating imported population rules. Enough is enough. No discrimination. Persons or communities in other countries facing discrimination and/or displacement for any reason, colour religion or ethnicity deserve support in their place from our world resources'.
All countries deserve to settle and create enough time that immigrants who come can assimilate. We can all learn much from the recent work our world performed in Thailand.
God Bless,
Reverend Ian
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Glenville Phillips
In The U.K The volume of immigration has all but destroyed the 'Welfare State'. Present levels cannot be supported. The U.K seems to be the dustbin of Europe.
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John Owens
I mourn the loss of England to the invaders, through the treachery of the Bilderburgers and such.
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George
My daughter was on Obamacare and after her third stay at the hospital they refused to pay the bill.
the hospital told me no insurance money, no treatment. They handed me a bill for $45,000, and I could pay the bills and keep her in the hospital or not pay it and take her home.
I ran out of money, after spending $350,000 and the hospital ran out of rooms. Toni was discharged, two weeks later she passed.
Don't talk to me about Obamacare, when it cost to much they quit paying. And I know others recieved the same type of treatment.
Don't get upset because someone hasn't do what you wanted them to do.
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John Owens
Thank you for writing of this, George. I am very sorry about your daughter. A great injustice.
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George
I think of what they're afraid of is the country will be overrun and we'll not be able to support everyone.
On a second note, if we're not careful some individuals might slip in and blow or shoot up your church.
And after all the jobs are taken, that no white person wants, what happens to the excess people ? How do they get a job? Then I guess it's OK for them to steal from those that have more than they do. Which means the may just hit your church and everyone in ot.
That's what I think they're worried about. I would be worried, wouldn't you be?
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George
What has Trump done now that I'm not aware of?
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Rev. Cosimo
For starters this headline was poorly chosen. God never hates that is an emotion mankind has made on its own. The next thing I see here is that this ban is supposedly on Iran, Yemen, Libya, Syria, Somalia, Venezuela and North Korea which generally has a lot of the extremists and trouble cells. I do not agree with how we are going about handling this but, there does need to be a system in place. However since it is being ran with greed and corruption, it makes things tougher to do this in a just manner. We don't need a wall that is just ignorant on all levels. We need a serious and just way to attempt to filter the kind of people we allow in, not just Muslims since there are radical Christians, Jews, etc. Media has really ruined this country along with the lack of education and understanding of the big picture. Have a Policy? Yes. Have a system for people coming here? Yes.
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John Owens
Well, Rev Cosimo, just what kind of filter do you have in mind, and how do we keep people from coming in who have not been filtered? That was one of the problems with the countries on the moratorium list-- inadequate background information and cooperation from their authorities. Their religious persuasion is not more than an incidental factor. Oh, and please explain the big picture for us. Some here may not have grasped it, being less enlightened than you are.
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John A Anderson, CD, CIF Mons ON
Legality =/= morality. Slavery was legal, genocides were legal (Native Americans, Armenian, Ukrainian, Jews/Romani). What must be learned is that these lessons must NOT be repeated. If the evangelicals cannot adapt, they will die out. That's one of the basic tenets of evolution (I know, that's accepted scientific theory, but it fits all the evidence presently available). Unfortunately, they currently hold sway in political circles, because of the power GIVEN to them. If the common people were to seize that power back, en masse, they would lose their grip on power, but how many would need to die to allow that to happen? Unfortunately, in the modern world, everything SEEMS to be financially based. And John Q Public doesn't have the funding to make a difference by himself, so he thinks that there's nothing to be done. However, if ALL got involved, they would see the difference they could make. A single drop of water falling into an ocean does nothing but cause ripples, but if the ripple gets big enough, it hits the opposite shore as a tsunami (An oversimplification, but being used to prove a point).
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Rev. Brien
Look, like it or not, this country is a majority rule. If you do not like what is happening in the government, VOTE THEM OUT. This has NOTHING to do with religion, faith, or freakin Santa Claus. I sit back and I watch and listen to both sides, great choice I have here, a jackass or some nasty elephant. BOTH of you are the reason why this once beautiful country is turning into a toilet. You refuse to work together on ANYTHING. So, with all due respect, shut your vile, self righteous, self serving pie holes. You lack of compassion and intelligence makes me sick. Your refusal to work together just proves that this country is heading for another civil war. I hope that you all choke on your words. Instead of bitching about it, WORK TOGETHER AND SOLVE THE ISSUES.
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John Owens
The President was at all times well within the parameters of his powers as described in the Constitution. The courts who said he was not were absolutely wrong and only catering to the President's and the country's enemies. Now the Supreme Court has settled it. I think now the Justice Dept. should prosecute all who interfered from the start. That is not my decision to make, lucky for them.
The pastors should be free to say pretty much anything they like short of sedition, as long as they are speaking within their own congregations, but when they come outside and become political, they are subject to any laws like anyone else, and their opinion is of no greater or lesser importance than anyone else.
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Roy L. Patterson
Agree 100% with your comments.
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The Rev. Brother Robert Barker
Pastors are very much aware of they're being subject to the law. Many protesting pastors are non-violently arrested and charged when they non-violently resist unjust, inhumane laws.
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George
What laws are unjust, inhumane ?
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Carl Elfstrom
It still being legal to hit your wife with a stick the size of your thumb.
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John Owens
Right now, George, anything they can try to use to make the present administration look bad. They weren't inhumane or unjust 4 years ago, just now.
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The Rev. Brother Robert Barker
Usurper, authoritarian Trump, who thinks he is a king responsible to no one but himself, has continuously violated his constitutional oath of office since he took it. He has violated all the accepted norms of being president or even a candidate; eg. refusing to release his tax returns.
"The pivots from precedent have gone far beyond policy shifts. The 45th president has done things the first 44 never considered.
He refused to set aside business interests, questioned the legitimacy of judges whose rulings he disagreed with and railed at a free press. He’s warned of conspiracies in his own government. He’s turned a friendly face toward Russia while pressuring NATO allies, and demanded jail for his main political rival while urging an open mind toward white supremacists.
His vulgar and scornful description of developing countries last week was only the latest instance of harsh rhetoric toward immigrants, fueling a sense that he’s removed some stigma from xenophobia and racism.
At the United Nations, he threatened to 'totally destroy North Korea' and mocked its reclusive leader as 'Rocket Man' after a series of missile tests. In the face of withering criticism about his mental state, Trump declared himself a 'very stable genius.' From the Dallas News, Jan 14, 2018.
From the Los Angeles Times, April 4, 2017; By Max Boot "He is the first president to:
• Be elected with the help of a hostile foreign power. The U.S. intelligence community released a unanimous assessment on Jan. 6 that concluded that "Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered "influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election, and that Putin "aspired to help President-elect Trump's election chances."
• Be investigated by the FBI for possible collusion with that same hostile foreign power. FBI Director James B. Comey has confirmed that his agents are looking into "the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government."
• So fulsomely express admiration for a Russian dictator — Trump has praised Putin for being "very smart," "strong" and a real "leader," while dismissing any concerns about Putin's numerous human rights violations by saying, "You think our country is so innocent?"
• Lie so regularly and brazenly, and often about matters, such as the size of his inauguration crowds, that are of little consequence. PolitiFact reports that only 17% of Trump's statements are "true" or "mainly true," with the rest ranging from "half true" to "pants on fire."
• Accuse his predecessor of "Watergate/Nixon" crimes by supposedly putting a "tapp" on his phones, and to then be publicly called out on his lies by his own FBI and National Security Agency directors, who testified that they know of no evidence that President Obama tapped Trump.
• Rely so prominently on his family in government. After John F. Kennedy made his brother attorney general, Congress passed an anti-nepotism law in 1967. Based on a questionable legal interpretation, however, the administration claims the statute doesn't apply to White House staff. Trump is giving his daughter Ivanka a security clearance and a West Wing office without forcing her to give up ownership of her clothing company, while making her husband, Jared Kushner, "lead adviser" on relations with China, Mexico, Canada and the Middle East, all subjects on which he has no background.
• Have so many blatant conflicts of interest. Since winning the presidency, Trump has doubled membership fees at his "Winter White House," Mar-a-Lago in Florida, to $200,000 and won valuable trademark protections from China. He has not placed his ownership of the Trump Organization into a blind trust. His sons, who are running his real estate empire, continue to pursue lucrative deals with dubious, politically connected tycoons from Turkey, Dubai, Malaysia and other countries. It's hard to track all of the conflicts of interest, because of course Trump is also the first president in decades to not release his taxes.
• Appoint his former campaign chairman to the National Security Council's Principals Committee in spite of his lack of national security credentials. True, President Reagan made campaign manager William J. Casey his CIA director, but Casey had previously served in the OSS — the agency's predecessor — and in senior government positions. By contrast, Stephen K. Bannon formerly ran Breitbart News, a white-nationalist website, before being granted rank comparable to Defense secretary or secretary of State.
• Fire his first national security advisor, Michael Flynn, after only 24 days in office, because Flynn lied about making contact with the Russian ambassador. The shortest previous tenure on record was Richard Allen, who lasted nearly a year at the beginning of the Reagan administratio
• Alienate so many allies so quickly. Since taking office, Trump has offended the heads of state in Mexico, Australia, Germany, Sweden, France and the United Kingdom.
• Leave so many executive branch jobs vacant. Of 553 key positions, Trump has failed to fill 488 of them — 88%. At the departments of State and Defense, the only confirmed appointees are the Cabinet members.
• So vitriolically attack the judiciary. Trump attacked a federal judge who put a hold on his executive order on immigration as a "so-called judge" who issued a "terrible decision" that will result in "many very bad and dangerous people … pouring into our country." Even Trump's Supreme Court nominee, Neil M. Gorsuch, called the president's attacks "demoralizing" and "disheartening."
• Publicly denounce the media as "the enemy of the American people." He regularly castigates the "fake news media" for reporting truthfully on his administration, with special venom for the "failing New York Times," whose stock has risen 30% since the election.
• Be so ignorant of public policy. According to New York Times columnist Roger Cohen, citing a "senior European diplomat," at his recent meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, "Trump knew nothing of the proposed European-American deal known as the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, little about Russian aggression in Ukraine or the Minsk agreements, and was so scatterbrained that German officials concluded that the president's daughter Ivanka, who had no formal reason to be there, was the more prepared and helpful."
• See two of his signature initiatives — an attempt to limit Muslim immigration and to repeal Obamacare — defeated so early in his first term."
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John Owens
You see? The sheer volume of your vitriol argues against its veracity.
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George
If this was a recording and I closed my eyes I would say I was listening to CNN.
It does appear that you are following the same talking points that the far left democrats are constantly pushing.
Are you actually telling me that Trump hasn't done anything good; not one thing that you would agree with that deserve one iota of positive credit?
Is that what you're saying? Now remember no lying as you're a man of God .
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George
I agree Trump isn't the standard political leader. He's a business person and one of the promises made was to down size politics. He said early on that he wouldn't fill all seats previously filled by past presidents.
Glut yesterday doesn't mean gluttony is required to run the country today.
Even the first lady has streamlined her personal aids far lower than any other past first lady.
Do yourself a favor and research those areas that you feel Trump has failed the country and create your own thoughts.
When you're putting together a sermon do you ask another minister his opinion then create your sermon based on his words and not your own? I think not so why do it with politics?
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The Rev. Brother Robert Barker
I am trying to subscribe to this blog but it doesn't seem to be working. I tried posting a comment here but it didn't post. What is happening?
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John Owens
Looks like you just posted. Sometimes there is a delay between the time you hit enter and the time it shows up.
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM
Welcome!
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George
Rev. Barker, Perhaps God doesn't approve of your comments. Just thinking out loud.
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The Rev. Brother Robert Barker
Right wing extremist white people, Trumpsters, which include fundi evangelicals, are running scared because they see the demographic writing on the wall; the population of America is threatening to turn to from a majority white population to people of color; red, yellow, brown, and black. Whites could lose their exalted position of powerl over the levers of control in society. These frightened whites are trying to erect a “fire wall” against further immigration of non-whites to slow inevitable loss of being the majority race in good ole’ Merica’.
When one becomes an ordained clergy, which I have been for 30 years as a former Lutheran and now as one now in both the Spiritual Humanist Church and the Universal Life Church, one does not lose their rights as spelled out in the Bill of Rights, including FREEDOM OF SPEECH. As a clergy in the conservative Lutheran church I exercised my right of Free Speech in writing letters to the editor in opposition to the Iraq War and marched in many anti-war, anti-“W” demonstrations. I also spoke and wrote out against those who every winter solstice season ramped up their phony “War on Christmas.” I posted campaign posters and other messages on my own private property where I lived. I never endorsed candidates from the pulpit which would be inappropriate but I did speak about issues of morality and human rights which I had and have every right to do as a clergyman under my Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech.
I oppose and resist the current usurper of the Presidency and his regime, Donald Trump who willingly allowed his campaign to be co-opted by V. Putin and the Russians who also interfered with the 2016 Presidential election to put their useful idiot into the Presidency for the purpose of undermining and destroying our democratic republic of the U.S.A. Trump is a fascist, un-American traitor who deserves to hang. Trump is a racist, homophobic, xenophobic, misogynistic and narcissistic MINORITY ELECTED phony president. As a clergy I do and shall use my freedom of speech to speak out against the obscenity holding power in the White House.
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM
Here, here! Well stated, I am with you and am also a very old protester from way back. Our voices must be loud and clear to remove the most evil and nasty regime since the 1830's and return to some level of civility diplomacy and humanity.
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The Rev. Brother Robert Barker
Thank you Catherine. Yes, we must continue to RESIST the fascist Trump and the now fascist RethugliCON Party!
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kim
LOL!!!! .I needed a good laugh! Thank You!!!! And I'm NOT a Republican or Conservative. Just someone with a brain that works!
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kim
Good....let the your wonderful illegals burglarize YOUR home, as they did mine, then see how much you just love it when the cops cover it up to protect them...not you! And then let them murder one of your ex neighbors and burry them in an abandoned field, as they did mine. Bet you're gonna love that too!
Oh...but that doesn't count, does it?
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Rev. John D. Partin
Kim, would you be against all white people, instead of illegal aliens, if the burglars of your home or the murderers of your ex-neighbors had been white? Or don't you think that white people ever burglarize or kill other white people? Let me remind you of some "little" occurrences called the Holocaust, the Manson family murders, the Richard Speck killings of nurses in Chicago, Ted Bundy's murders of women, the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, and the Lincoln and Kennedy assassinations. Also, we took this country away from the Native Americans who were already here and invaded their country and illegally immigrated. So, should they all hate all of us (that is, more than many of them already do)? Nobody is saying that you should love those specific people who burglarized your home or killed your ex-neighbors and buried them in an abandoned field, but just that you shouldn't lump them in with other people because they have the same color and come from the same places and hate them all! That is called bigotry!!!
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM
Kim, my 10 year old cousin was kidnapped, raped and murdered by 2 White men. She was left in the woods in NJ. Should I hate all white people? According to the way you have presented yourself, I should be justified to do so. Well, guess what, I do not hate white people but I am certainly untrusting of them. After all, they still believe they had a right to kidnap our children, send them off to boarding schools to"Kill the Indian, Save the Man" where they were beaten and starved for speaking our languages. This after stealing our homes, our lands and everything which was ours. We watch carefully as tribal people how descendants of Pilgrims and those who followed, behave toward the current indigenous people seeking asylum. Shameful, shameful attitudes and behavior.
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John Owens
I think you have it almost backwards. The white liberals are the ones who are scared, because they want open borders and a socialist welfare granny state and they see that it is being delayed. People on the Left keep talking about Right Wing Extremist people, trying to fool others into thinking they are a factor. The only thing that will make most Right Wing people seem "extremist" is if the Left keeps trying to move FURTHER left. The Left are the extremists, obviously and undoubtedly. Your speech alone should make that obvious to a rational mind.
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM
My comment is not directed to anyone so please don't get your pants twisted up and start throwing daggers. Must people be so divisive? This is a humanitarian crisis. And unfortunately, some would like it to be an us vs. them issue. "Welfare granny state" is an interesting ideology. The first welfare recipients were those invader greedy Pilgrims who never left and we will not forget what came after. What goes around comes around. The chickens have come home to roost. The Central American indigenous people are returning. The border was artificially created by thieves. When we are divided into left vs right, liberal vs conservative, we lose our humanity. I am none of these but I am a Native humanitarian who tires of the rhetoric and inaction from both sides. I care about my fellow humans, even when they are misguided by hat, ignorance and fear. I much prefer to feed the hungry and help the homeless, rather than sell weapons of mass destruction to foreign nations or give millions to other countries for their "security" out of our hard earned money, as is the norm. The Military Industrial Complex is gloated with tax payer dollars, pilfered by thieves like Lockheed Martin, who continues to gouge taxpayers and Congress does nothing but continue to reward them with more multimillion dollar contracts. Our priorities as a nation is screwed up and we are on the losing end. Being Spiritual and/or religious means caring for others and when we dehumanize certain segments of the world population, we have abandoned love for our neighbors and ourselves. If you don't like what I say, too bad, get over it as I will not engage in an argument or defense of my values.
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John Owens
I understand humanitarianism. I do not want anyone to suffer. At the same time, there are people in countries where there are food shortages and drought and war and oppression who actually wish to harm us and have no intention of assimilating. That is an incontrovertible FACT.
The people who have been granted asylum in Europe and England have no intention of assimilating, wish to live on the government dole, and think it is acceptable to riot and burn and loot when their crime sprees are interrupted.
The filthy rich congresspeople, movie stars, and industrialists do not have to worry much about these people, because they do not travel in the same circles as normal people, so they WANT to appear as if they really care about them.
As I have stated elsewhere, I AM my Brothers' keeper. I am not everyone else's brothers' keeper.
This ban concerns specific countries which give us little or no background information on prospective immigrants and they have been PROVEN to be high risk.
It is perfectly within the President's Constitutional purview to ban anyone for any reason and this is not unreasonable. It is unreasonable to be unrealistic about realizing there are people who have no intention of becoming good citizens of this country and do not share our values.
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Angela
Where were you for tbe days if President Obama? Border wall is a. Issue for security and protection. Do you ever go to Mexico, Germany, Canada? Why the goverment of tbose country dont assume their responsibilities and take care of tbeir own. America got law reslect it. And if you live here respect it. Be grateful!President Trump was elected by tbe american people! As was Obama, was Bush And Clinton!
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM
Sorry Angela, Trump was not elected by the populace of the US. The electoral college put him in. I live in AZ, there is no need for another wall. I have lived near the border for years and have had USBP agents and supervisors as clients, so I get info from the "horse's mouth". This is propaganda and people who are ignorant, buy the lies. Also, check your facts. The people coming here are seeking asylum from regimes in war-torn countries in Central America, which is not Mexico, and supported by our own CIA trained military who are the heads of drug cartels. Please get educated with facts.
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John Owens
Actually, after everything was counted, and the illegal votes discarded, Trump won by over 700,000 votes, but that is irrelevant, since we DO elect our Presidents and Vice-Presidents by the electoral college.
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The Rev. Brother Robert Barker
Right wing extremist white people, Trumpsters, which include fundi evangelicals, are running scared because they see the demographic writing on the wall; the population of America is threatening to turn to from a majority white population to people of color; red, yellow, brown, and black. Whites could lose their exalted position of powerl over the levers of control in society. These frightened whites are trying to erect a “fire wall” against further immigration of non-whites to slow inevitable loss of being the majority race in good ole’ Merica’.
When one becomes an ordained clergy, which I have been for 30 years as a former Lutheran and now as one now in both the Spiritual Humanist Church and the Universal Life Church, one does not lose their rights as spelled out in the Bill of Rights, including FREEDOM OF SPEECH. As a clergy in the conservative Lutheran church I exercised my right of Free Speech in writing letters to the editor in opposition to the Iraq War and marched in many anti-war, anti-“W” demonstrations. I also spoke and wrote out against those who every winter solstice season ramped up their phony “War on Christmas.” I posted campaign posters and other messages on my own private property where I lived. I never endorsed candidates from the pulpit which would be inappropriate but I did speak about issues of morality and human rights which I had and have every right to do as a clergyman under my Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech.
I oppose and resist the current usurper of the Presidency and his regime, Donald Trump who is a whose campaign was co-opted by V. Putin and the Russians who interfered with the 2016 Presidential election to put their useful idiot into the Presidency for the purpose of undermining and destroying our democratic republic of the U.S.A. Trump is a fascist, un-American traitor who deserves to hang. Trump is a racist, homophobic, xenophobic, misogynistic and narcissistic MINORITY ELECTED phony president. As a clergy I do and shall use my freedom of speech to speak out against the obscenity holding power in the White House.
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George
Funny how some people keep yelling Russian Collusion when to date none has been proven after over a year. OK, ok, you're right because someone is running around yelling the sky is falling, or in this case, "Empeach 45", it must be true because some bigwigs in the Democrat Party says so even before the investigation is over.
If the democratic party has the ability to see into the future why aren't you asking them for next week's winning lottery numbers.
Instead of making groundless, to this point, accusations about the other side why don't you take the energy expended in furthering the democratic agenda to do some research into those areas you feel he has wronged the people.
You just might suprise yourself and discover that what you're saying isn't factual. Even if you found that most of what you've been told or seen on TV was wrong you wouldn't change you stand because your friends may not like you anymore. And that's the way of Group Thinking and being to much of a coward to oppose your fair weather friends. So, so sad.
Oh. One more point. You mention that Trump and the Russians are undermining and destroying our democratic republic of the USA.
What do you think your misguided rhetorics are doing. How did the Russians put their idiot Trump into the presidency? After you think about it for longer then its takes you to ask someone, check out what Trump has done to Russia and then tell me they're friends and Trump is Putin's puppet.
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kim
There WAS Russian Collusion.....they're just looking at all the wrong people and party! If they were looking at the right people, this entire farce would be over and the correct people would be on their way to prison. Probably Mueller included! (And I'm not a Republican)
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John
What a racist comment! "Right wing extremist white people." Really? Your rhetoric is no different from those you are talking against. It's just pointed in another direction. Yes you have the right to your opinion and This Country gives you freedom of speech. But don't forget even though we may have freedom of speech, we also have a moral responsibility to our fellow citizens, and there is no place for hate speech.
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Wendy
If it were truly a ban on Muslims it would include all Muslim countries. It doesn't. If it were a ban on Muslims it would include Venezuela or North Korea. It's a ban on people from a handful of countries that refuse to cooperate with the US vetting policies. Chad was on the original list. Now it isn't because they started cooperating with US policies, just like the vast majority of other countries in the world.
The media and liberals are trying to spin this in the way that makes Trump look as bad as possible because they have a political agenda. It serves their purpose to lie about it.
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John McAllister
I need a little help here. Venezuela and North Korea are not Islamic nations. Venezuela, last I checked, was Catholic in majority. Perhaps it is my thinking, but shouldn't we welcome those fleeing oppression in North Korea?
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George
What do you mean when you say, "shouldn't we welcome those fleeing oppression in North Korea? "?
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George
Let South Korea take them in not the US.
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KEITH MARTIN
GOD CREATED ALL LIFE ON THIS EARTH. FROM THE LOWLY WORM TO ELEPHANT. RDNA. WAS LONG PROVED THAT ALL WOMEN ON THIS EARTH. CARRY THE SAME GENE MARKERS. SO AN EVE OF THIS HUMAN RACE . WAS BORN AND ALL HUMANITY IS HER DESCENDANTS. REJOICE AND TREAT EACH OTHER AS YOUR FAMILY MEMBERS. NONE BETTER BY SKIN COLOR . ONLY BY THEIR OWN ACTIONS. .
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John McAllister
Wisdom to live by. Alas, I know the US judges many by their looks, language, dress, and then any mistakes they made, not any good actions they may have made intentionally. Dress in all black, except for the Church, and the police stop you for being a shooter or Satanist. If you have long hair, a beard, and otherwise look like a Hippie, regardless of what Jesus looked like, they stop you. If you don't speak English, you're a terrorist or illegal. And, perhaps worse, one mistake in your youth will forever be held against you, even after you have paid for it in prison.
The fact that two of different skin colors have have children proves we are all the same. Sadly, too many let colors distract them rather than seeing them as part of a colorful world.
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George
Not being a very educated person would you please rephrase your comment so I could understand what you mean. Thanks
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ordained mh
its not about color or religion or where you come from . to me its like having a sinking ship and you have the only lifeboat . if everyone on that ship wants to get into your life raft and you let them , then common sense says we are going to drown because the liferaft cant support everyone on that ship . Sad yes but true just like our nation , everyone from all nations want to get on the usa life raft and be happy and safe and succselful , the usa doesnt have the resources to save the WORLD thats why GOD created the WORLD in the beginning and not just the USA . I UNDERSTAND what I would want to do if I was poor and persecuted in another country . . I DONT HATE ANYONE I TRY NOT TOO. but our LIFE RAFT IS TOO FULL NOW
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Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM
Would you be so kind as to explain how "our LIfe Raft is too full now"? Is this statistics which you have uncovered or an emotional statement?
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George
Catherine, I'm surprised the life boat analogy slipped over your head.
Let use another story that is true. You may have even witnessed it your self.
My dog gave birth to a litter of 8 and only had six feeding slots. For some reason the mother kept pushing one puppy away from feeding. At first I felt the pup just crawled away or lost mom, you know an accident.
Once again I noticed a pup off to the side. Without being able to distinguish one pup from another I put a drop of red nail polish on the tip of the pup's tail and replaced him back into the feeding position with the rest of the pups.
An hour the same pup was again out of the nest; so to speak. I put the pup back for the third time and the little guy started eating as though he was starving.
I sat down, a little bit away and watched to see how or why the pup became detached from the other pups. To my suprise mom pushed the same pup out of the nest and after a few seconds the pup started to mew trying to find the shelter, food, and comforting love of mom.
A short time later I buried the pup. I asked my self why. Was it because she had more pups then tests. No that wasn't it because she would rotate the pups to insure they all ate. I decided that only two possible answers were plausible. 1) mom knew she wouldn't have enough milk to feed 8 but she could manage 7. Possible. But what if she knew, somehow, that the pup was sick and pushed it away so as not to waste her precious milk.
Then it could have been a combination of the two a sickly runt consuming food that may be wasted on a pup that may be dying. Then there's the obsurd reason of vengeance towards that particular pup because he caused mom the most discomfort during her pregnancy. We both know the last comment was stupid. Yet when you look for reasons becsuse the comments don't sync with your premise we resort to stupidity.
Let's look at America as being the mother. Now mom (America) doesn't care how many pups (immigrants) she has as long as she can care for each one, by having enough food, shelter, proper care, and love for each and every one of her pups.
If the life raft can safely hold six and it contains 7 and now the life raft is sitting dangerously low in the water and every small wave is washing over the side and as long as everyone bails the life raft stays afloat .
Now an 8th person wants into the life raft and those in the raft know that one more person will cause the raft to sink and everyone will drown.
If you were one of those individuals in the raft would you help the 8th person into the raft and be responsible for the death of all 8 people.
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John Owens
None of this is about skin color.
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The Rev. Brother Robert Barker
George and Mark. Your "life raft" comparison is BS. The United States is not too full! As I said in my post below: "Right wing extremist white people, Trumpsters, which include fundi evangelicals, are running scared because they see the demographic writing on the wall; the population of America is threatening to turn to from a majority white population to people of color; red, yellow, brown, and black. Whites could lose their exalted position of powerl over the levers of control in society. These frightened whites are trying to erect a “fire wall” against further immigration of non-whites to slow inevitable loss of being the majority race in good ole’ Merica’."
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John Owens
Great Scot! What kind of cartoons are you watching?
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James Stark
Mr. Barker...who was it that settled this land. Is your home open to whomever wishes to move in and without your consent?
You call yourself a Rev. Please use the knowledge of the Old Testament when God himself told Israel NOT TO MIX with those who might come in and lead them astray.
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kim
An at one time having lived in an area that had lots of illegal farm workers and being burglarized by them,.as were other people in the area, and local state troopers trying to cover it up...going so far as "forgetting" to turn in my report (as we found out 2 weeks later), and now just recently, in the same area, another illegal just murdered someone and buried the person in a field not far from where my home was, I say ENOUGH!
When "immigrants" who shouldn't even be here, are PROTECTED when they commit crimes, and victims are thrown to the wayside as every single one of us were (the cops didn't even want to talk to the person who thought they could provide info about the people who broke into my home, nor did they want a few things that I found in my home, that the illegals left behind), this country is on its way to being done. Oh..and this happened when I was living in NYS....surprise...surprise....
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Bobbus Bertram
Nice Story.. any verifiable facts you can steer us towards? or are you just full of hate and hot air?
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John Owens
How is it hate and hot air when someone tells events from their own life?
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Judith Keairns
Rev., Very well said. And you are correct. It is sad that the others here do not or can not see this.
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Barry
Separation of church and state. Churches should stay out of this issue. Let the powers that be handle things.
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Roy L. Patterson
Agree 100% with ban
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Marcel French
This is beyond petty and stupid since I know for a fack the God and Goddess have no interest in your corrupt politics and religion. They both hate ignorance and blind faith. They also hate the constant attempts by human religion to deny their duality. Borders like religion are purely a human construct. The ban on Muslim immigration much like the drive to put an end to open borders is about national security. All because of the unpredictable and frequent evil perpetuated by humans against other humans that don't share such narrow minded world views.
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John Owens
The "God and Goddess" also appreciate an instinct for self-preservation and shake their heads when they see their children who do not display any of that instinct. I agree with your last two statements.
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Janmac
I totally agree with the self-preservation aspect and the sheepishness of organized religions. Faith is a personal thing not a preached at thing. That said I agree that we all pay taxes and have input. I think that all immigrants (just like my grandparents) should integrate to our laws and society not segregate themselves. I think that is a large part of our problems. Open borders without respecting our constitution and morals will never work. Would that all could be converted to the older ways - life would be so much simpler I think. Blessed Be all
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John Owens
Good comment, Jan. Societies cannot exist without boundaries.
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James
Separation of church and state. Mind your own business.. Churches don't pay taxes, and don't have poop to say about border law. State don't tell the church what to poach over. So respect the separation or else bad things will take place. Like communism!
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George
Churches may not pay taxes but the members do and the church speaks the voice of the majority of its members.
So in retrospect, churches do have the right to express their collective voice.
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The Rev. Brother Robert Barker
Churches don't necessarily speak for the majority of members. Of course there are the sheeple who will follow the preacher no matter what he says (I deliberately use the pronoun he because most fundi churches only allow males to be preachers). Fundi members don't really think for themselves or think through their beliefs because they are too damn lazy. "Just tell me what to believe preacher, take responsibility for my life, make my decisions for me, and tell me I am forgiven, saved, sanctified, and headed for heaven. And don't challenge my beliefs or how I live."
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George
How true. That's why I dislike orginized religon . The leader has way to much control over his flock of sheep.
Back in 62 when we got married I asked the minister about birth control and he became upset; no, he became angry. He said any form of birth control is against God's will and I (mesning he) will not be a part of anything like that, and you must donate 10% of your income to be a member and receive his sermons as they come directly from God. I mean he didn't skip a beat slipping the payment part in to the conversation
My new wife was mortified when I got up, gave the minister the finger saying there wasn't a single word that he had uttered that I would pay a dime for let alone 10%.
Of course we were thrown out of the church. Didn't the idiot realize that my gesture and comments were my statement of resignation.
Not to be political here but I just realized that my attitude an actions kind of parallels some of the people on the left by not realizing that all churches are the same, yet they can differ by context.
My wife and I have moved around a bit and always gravated towards smaller churches not by denomination, but how good the material and preacher.
Both political parties should understand that unlike a church, you can offer suggestions to your government and at times, if many like minded individuals make the same statement, it will be heard and acted upon.
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Patrick Gordon Connors
Amen to that Brother!!
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Gary Nicholson BFA
I really do not understand the inability to see that "God's" intent is to unify all of humanity; regardless of belief system (religion) or national border. We are ALL in God's body. Christ, Muhammad, Buddha and all Teachers are in God's body. Do you think God's intent is to divide; to sever a limb or a leg or heart or brain from the One body? Can you imagine if all culture's shared their arts and sciences? What progress truly means? The world will ultimately unify in total. This is the PLAN. Borders will never last. History proves this. No one prophet is the ONLY one. Humanity is still immature. It is a hope that we will mature. It is the World View that is important.
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Eddie
I understand your sentiment, but if that is truly "God's" intent, he or she sucks at communication. Not one of the monotheistic religions I know of has much patience for the others.
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Paula
God hates no one. It’s people who hate. If it’s in your heart to love then you shall love and be loved. If it’s in your heart to hate ,, then you will hate and be hated.
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Jennings R Dail
Please educate yourself on the proper application of the 1st amendment. You will not find any such law as to the church (Bride of Christ) be removed from the state (Citizens of USA). The church is a living organism of human beings who are transformed by God's grace. To truly separate the church from the state you would have to give each elected representative a religious test which is unconstitutional. The continued perpetuation of false information doesn't make it true.
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ordained mh
WASNT I COUNTRG BUILT ON SPERATION OF CHURCH and State , ? Rligious faith in my opinion is different than , protecting citizens against possible terrorist actions, many hide behind faith to cause harm , wasnt it said the devil can disguise himself as the lord , same as many people of faith use religion to gain monitarily on those unaware. Not saying all who live in other countries or use the services of the church are evil or thieves unfortunately , who can reall tell now adays, Its Trumps job to keep America safe not decide what anyones religious beliefs are,
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This article is so very misleading...it is not a ban, that is the title given by the media to promote an agenda. Under this action people from the seven countries can still travel to the United States, the action is an extra ninety days to vet the applications. This article is another example of yellow journalism and we as leaders need to read through the misleading information. We have to be smarter and not get the people directed down the wrong path, Wisdom is key and if we don't take the time to be wise and to properly lead our people then we are sinners.