Christiany apology to gays

“I used to believe that God condemns homosexuals, but I was wrong,” explained the pastor leading the campaign.


The last thing you’d expect to find at the end of a Gay Pride parade is a throng of apologetic Christians looking to make amends on behalf of their religion.

And yet unsuspecting LGBTQ marchers in Marikina City’s annual parade in the Philippines were greeted with exactly that. A group of Christians holding signs just outside the stadium, one declaring: “I’ve rejected and hurt your family in the name of ‘family values,'” others claiming “God loves you, so do we,” and “I used to be a Bible-banging homophobe Sorry!!”

“My heart really felt light upon seeing them,” recounts 19-year-old Jamilah Salvador, who was walking in her first-ever Pride parade. “I stopped when I saw them and read all of their messages and immediately felt goose bumps all over my body, then my tears started to build up. Some hugged and talked to these Christians. Some took photos, like what I did, and others just stood there in awe.”

The photos Salvador snapped and then posted on Twitter quickly went viral:

Former homophobes apologizeAllies to the Cause

Members of the Evangelical and Pentecostal Church of Freedom in Christ Ministries (FICM) who greeted Salvador were no strangers to Gay Pride. Pastor Val Paminiani has been attending for the last four years, part of the organization’s “I’m Sorry” campaign.

“I used to believe that God condemns homosexuals,” he told BuzzFeed News, “but when I studied the Scriptures, especially the ones that we call ‘clobber Scriptures’ that are being cherry-picked from the Bible to condemn LGBT people, I realized that there’s a lot to discover, including the truth that God is not against anyone. God does not discriminate against people based on gender.”

By setting the example, Paminiani is hopeful other Christians won’t hijack the Scriptures to condemn. “We pray that more and more Christians will act, speak, and love the LGBT people like Jesus would,” he said.

Christian Compassion

While the Philippines might be ranked amongst the most gay-friendly nations in Asia, it’s no secret that Christians have not been very good to the LGBT community the globe over. In fact, highly conservative denominations have been complicit in several anti-gay laws that have led to their persecution in countries like Uganda, Nigeria and Russia.

And yet for every terrible law there is a compassionate pastor who will remind Christians what their religion is truly all about. As Archbishop Desmond Tutu once declared: “I would not worship a God who is homophobic. I am as passionate about this (LGBT Rights) campaign as I ever was about apartheid. For me, it is at the same level.”

In an age where too many Christians have hardened their moral opposition toward gays and sided with those who refuse to recognize, accept or even serve them, it’s nice to see an example of a pastor who is speaking to the better angels of his congregation.

We could certainly use more Val Paminianis in this world. After all, is there anything more powerful in the Christian faith than asking for forgiveness?

 

104 comments

  1. Rev Dr Valerie A Ward says:

    In light of everything going on in my country, this is a beautiful ray of sunshine. My hope and faith are renewed! Blessed Be.

    1. Rev. THEO KLEBES says:

      I agree. Thank you for your ray of sunshine.

      1. The Rev. Robert Barker says:

        Totally agree.

        1. Reverand Raymond Smith says:

          Totally agree. Awsome post and message

    2. John Vidmosko says:

      I cannot believe the reaction of so-called Christians who are embracing this movement of LGBT and the like–it IS IMMORAL and you all just sweep the Bible under the rug and want to become France in 1798–Sodom & Gomorrah all over again–If you have not learned from History–you haven’t learned anything at all….Judgment is coming–I suggest you avoid the EMOTION and get your doctrine right. Without doctrine–you have a free-for-all and the end is not pretty.

      1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, OM says:

        “LGBT Movement”??? Why do you care so much about this issue and how people love each other? Sodom & Gomorrah>>> Seriously, what year do you live in and better yet, what country do you reside? Get over it and yourself. You do not have the answer nor special hotline to the Creator.You are brainwashed by mythological stories from the middle East. Live in peace, love and embrace diversity just like the lord and savior you profess to follow…you will be happier and healthier.

        1. bob fluetsch says:

          Catherine: ‘ . . . peace, love and e brace diversity just like the lord and savior . . ..”
          The savior NEVER approved of sin of any kind. And, according to His Father the practice of homosexuality is an abomination!

          The love/diversity crap is another word for ‘toleration’ and ‘anything goes’. The righteous and forgiving God is unchangeable and eternal and calls a ‘spade a spade’. He hates sin of all kinds . . . . . including unnatural, wretched, homosexual acts.

          1. John D. Partin says:

            Bob, if Jesus NEVER approved of sin of any kind, that means that He didn’t approve of the sin of bigotry (which is what homophobia is), either, back in His time and doesn’t approve of it in you and other people today. Before you condemn other people’s “sins”, you should look at yourself honestly and see what sins you have. “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye” (Matthew 7:3-5). Loving your neighbor as yourself isn’t “the love/diversity crap”, but is just what your supposed “Lord and Savior” (but we would never know that by your thinking here and actions elsewhere!) told you to do, if you want to claim to be any kind of “follower of Jesus”, other than just on your terms and when it suits you. You want people to accept you as you are, with all of your faults and sins, but refuse to do the same for gay people and others because of their “sins” (in your view, anyway). That is a double standard and hypocrisy and not doing unto others as you would have them do unto you (another commandment and teaching of Jesus). Homophobia is bigotry, the same as racism, religious or ethnic bigotry, or any other kind of hatred of entire groups of people, indiscriminately. If you see the wrong in all those kinds of bigotry, why don’t you see it in homophobia, too? Different isn’t evil or wrong or abomination, but just different, that’s all, because, otherwise, we would all have to be warmed over versions of Bob Fluetsch in order to be “right” and “good” people. Variety is the spice of life, not the curse of life (as you and many other people “think”). Live and let live. There is room in this world for everyone to live, as long as they aren’t personally hurting you and you aren’t sticking your nose into other people’s business where it doesn’t belong. That is the truly Godly attitude and way to live. Bigotry, such as yours, is unnatural and wretched. People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. Let him who is without sin among you cast the first stone. Mind your own business! Physician, heal thyself!

        2. Minister Raymond says:

          AMEN…

        3. William Waugh says:

          Catherine. I’m trying to cover your back here. I have discovered that many people evoking “the law”, using the old testement for justification, is just another example of “cherry picking. Jesus said, let the innocent among you be first to judge……….and these books were written when human comprehension (at least for most) was severely limited. Grown men had to be told proper disposal routine for feces, they thought a dogs tail was functually useless, and that the heart was where the mind was (the head was just a useless backside to the face) I mean, make up your mind; god is perfect and does not make mistakes! Oops, …..that means homosexuals were born created equal.

      2. bob fluetsch says:

        Right on!

      3. Rev. Ned says:

        Read Ezekiel 16:49.

  2. Joe says:

    Apologize for yourself if you need to. Don’t speak for me.

    1. James says:

      Amend bro

      1. George says:

        Joe, James, I take it you have something against gays. What may I ask?

        1. bob fluetsch says:

          It matters not whether I have something against homosexuals . . . . it DOES, though, matter what the eternal, righteous, forgiving God feels about practicing homosexuality. He hates it, terms it an abomination and considers it reprehensible and unnatural.

          Homosexuality is not a disease, nor genetically inherited. The practice is disgusting, a scourge and its adherents to be pitied.

          1. T'Keren Valmaz says:

            Vile as ever I see Bob flatulence. You are a perfect example of why the old archaic and corrupted faiths need to be brought to an end for the betterment of the world.

          2. John D. Partin says:

            Bob, how do you know that God hates homosexuality, terms it an abomination, and considers it reprehensible and unnatural, and that those words weren’t just put into God’s mouth by Bible writers, who wanted to sanctify their own bigotry by making “God say it”, as though God were a big ventriloquist’s dummy sitting on their laps and they could make Him say whatever they wanted to, thereby gaining power and control over other people? Are you here only to read your own words and listen to people who already think the same as you do or to consider other points of view and questions and broaden your mind, instead of narrow it? If the former, then just go off somewhere and talk to yourself; if the latter, then consider this question and see if it sounds reasonable and possible to you. I’m here even to consider your and other bigots’ points of view and then answer them and tell you why all of that is wrong. Are you here to consider any other viewpoint than your own and answer questions from more obviously enlightened people than yourself or just go through life and this discussion with blinders on? Is bigotry disgusting and a scourge and should its adherents be pitied? What do you think?

          3. Richard Bryant says:

            I am with you brother and I see that other people in this post don’t actually read or understand the Bible and one person actually said it could be the writers of the Bible’s opinion apparently they do not understand god wrote the Bible and it clearly clearly states passages about homosexuality and then why was it sodom and gamora was destroyed. This worlds religious values are starting to curve toward the line of Satan and people who follow that path with pay with eternal damnation

          4. Norma Battes says:

            bob fluetsch
            July 6, 2018 at 7:51 pm
            ” …the eternal, righteous, forgiving God feels about practicing homosexuality. He hates it,… ”

            ” The practice is disgusting, a scourge and its adherents to be pitied. ”

            A little less hate. A little more forgiving.

        2. Joe says:

          Quite the contrary.
          I have not judged or offended anyone. I see no need to apologise for anyone else’s actions.
          By apologizing for Christians they are apologizing for me which implies that I am some part of their transgressions.

          1. Lori Mongillo says:

            I don’t think the apology in this article needs to be taken personally or defensively, if you’re truly free of transgressions. Some Christian walk the walk. The apology seemed more a means of breaking down the walls of hatred and letting the LGBT community know that they are supported through the Christian message of love. It’s those little things that can touch the heart.

          2. T'Keren Valmaz says:

            Joe blow it out your arse, I can assure you that you are no real disciple of the man that was called the messiah by those that truly followed his teachings.

    2. Carl Elfstrom says:

      Why would anyone apologize for your wickedness, Joe. That’s something you need to do on your own.

      1. Joe says:

        By apologizing for Christians they are tagging all Christians as anti-gay.
        This mentality is the root of bigotry.

    3. John A Anderson, CD says:

      Joe,
      A challenge for you. Find me ONE verse in the first 3 books of the New Testament (Matthew, Mark, Luke), or ANY of the non-canonical Gnostic gospels, which says anything about LGBT individuals, for or against. The reason why these three canonical books: they supposedly were dictated to scribes by men who PERSONALLY knew Yeshua ben David (who you call Christ). John lived about 40 yrs after his crucifixion, and Saul of Tarsis didn’t get involved in Christianity until after that same crucifixion, so he didn’t know the man, either, and brought the Jewish interpretation of the Torah (or, as you call it, the Old Testament) into the mainstream of the new belief structure.
      I already know you will likely not succeed, simply because Yeshua could have cared less about who someone loved. His gospel WAS love, for EVERYONE. If you cannot grasp that, then there is a problem with YOUR interpretation, because of the fact that the Bible suffered numerous translations and times of censorship, as well as copyings. The language originally used was Aramaic, which was translated into Greek. Then came the Nicene council, which was gathered at the request of the Caesar, which wrote him into being YHWH’s representative on Earth (thereby establishing the divine right of kings), that decided which of the many books of the Bible would be canon, and translated from Greek to Latin. Following that was the medieval period, where the books were copied by relatively illiterate scribes, although they did wonderful work, over and over again. At the end of the medieval period, the books were translated into the national vernaculars from the Latin, and we have the King James version, in English, which purged passages again, to satisfy what the scholars thought HE would want. This then became the standard for English works, even though the language has been updated in more modern versions. I can understand Latin, but Aramaic is beyond my abilities personally, because I am not a native Semitic speaker. Can you understand it or do you just repeat what you have been taught?

      1. John Owens says:

        Interesting that you limit your scope to certain books. I don’t have a dog in this hunt, but I could challenge a person on any subject, and limit their search like you have here, and they could not meet the challenge, because I precluded anything that might back their position. Just pointing that out. The practice of most modern Christian believers is to limit the relevancy of the scriptures to only those scriptures which do not obviously contradict their teachings. Sort of a pretense at belief and faith. Just saying.

      2. Allen says:

        Hey people in control, where is my answer to Joe and John A Anderson, CD’s request? Why is it not posted after 24 hours?

        1. Allen Tobolewski says:

          Joe, John A Anderson,
          I couldn’t let this go. Here is a nutshell version.
          It is a little involved but here is the proof of Yahushua against lgbt.
          Yahushua was instructed by YHWH to only teach what Moshe taught, The Torah. Deu 18:18 ‘I (YHWH) shall raise up for them a Prophet like you(Moshe) out of the midst of their brothers. And I shall put My Words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. (His Instructions/Torah.)
          Yahushua was the living word of YHWH John 1:1-… / the Torah.
          Yahushua taught the Word of YHWH / the Torah. Mat 19:17 And He said to him, “… except One – Elohim. But if you wish to enter into (eternal) life, guard the Torah.”
          There it is. One of numerous quotes.
          Yahushua was the Torah, and taught the Torah, and the Torah of YHWH says that same sex relations are abominations, meaning: complete hatred toward YHWH.)
          More:
          Mat 15:3 But He answering, said to them, “Why do you also transgress the Torah of Elohim1 because of your tradition? (Written Torah against the Oral Torah.
          Mar 7:13 nullifying the Word of Elohim through your tradition which you have handed down.
          Luk 8:21 And He answering, said to them, “My mother and My brothers are those who are hearing the Word of Elohim and doing it.”
          The list goes on and on about Yahushua teaching the Torah, and the Torah of YHWH says lgbt is hatred toward YHWH. Good luch with that.
          This is outside of; 1-3 but, 1Jn 3:4 Everyone doing sin also does lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. Hebrew translation of lawlessness, is NO-TORAH.
          Rev 22:15 “But outside are the dogs and those who enchant with drugs, and those who whore, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and all who love and do falsehood.1 1.Falsehood means not Torah.
          I do not apologize for YHWH’s Torah.
          You are both welcome, Shalom Allen

      3. Allen Tobolewski says:

        I couldn’t let this go. Here is a nutshell version.
        It is a little involved but here is the proof of Yahushua against lgbt.
        Yahushua was instructed by YHWH to only teach what Moshe taught, The Torah. Deu 18:18 ‘I (YHWH) shall raise up for them a Prophet like you(Moshe) out of the midst of their brothers. And I shall put My Words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. (His Instructions/Torah.)
        Yahushua was the living word of YHWH John 1:1-… / the Torah.
        Yahushua taught the Word of YHWH / the Torah. Mat 19:17 And He said to him, “… except One – Elohim. But if you wish to enter into (eternal) life, guard the Torah.”
        There it is. One of numerous quotes.
        Yahushua was the Torah, and taught the Torah, and the Torah of YHWH says that same sex relations are abominations, meaning: complete hatred toward YHWH.)
        More:
        Mat 15:3 But He answering, said to them, “Why do you also transgress the Torah of Elohim1 because of your tradition? (Written Torah against the Oral Torah.
        Mar 7:13 nullifying the Word of Elohim through your tradition which you have handed down.
        Luk 8:21 And He answering, said to them, “My mother and My brothers are those who are hearing the Word of Elohim and doing it.”
        The list goes on and on about Yahushua teaching the Torah, and the Torah of YHWH says lgbt is hatred toward YHWH. Good luch with that.
        This is outside of; 1-3 but, 1Jn 3:4 Everyone doing sin also does lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. Hebrew translation of lawlessness, is NO-TORAH.
        Rev 22:15 “But outside are the dogs and those who enchant with drugs, and those who whore, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and all who love and do falsehood.1 1.Falsehood means not Torah.
        I do not apologize for YHWH’s Torah.
        You are both welcome, Shalom Allen

    4. bob fluetsch says:

      Right on! NO need to apologize to a fringe group of ‘he-shes’ engaging in disgusting, immoral, sinful, decadent, abominable and unnatural practices. Pity ’em, love ’em and God have mercy on ’em!

      1. Lori Mongillo says:

        Wow. And here is a perfect example of the true Christian spirit. This is a message that uplifts and shows how Jesus would respond to the needs of others………………NOT

        1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW says:

          With you Lori, what an abomination in the eyes of his Lord and Savior. Jesus would probably whip the you know what out of him.

      2. John D. Partin says:

        So, Bob, you are, obviously, one of those so-called “Christians” that haven’t been very good or friendly or accepting to the gay community, for whom these protestors are apologizing on your behalf, since you aren’t moral or conscientious or strong or brave enough to do that for yourself! It is the same as if you had committed any other sin (and not loving and accepting your gay neighbor, the same as your straight neighbor, as you do yourself is a sin) and you refused to ask forgiveness or apologize for that, and other people had to apologize and ask forgiveness on your behalf for that. Bigotry is disgusting, immoral, sinful, decadent, abominable and unnatural, which we know from Jesus’ having condemned the bigoted and self-righteous Pharisees and saying nothing against homosexuality. You are part of a fringe group.

      3. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW says:

        Wow, you are not serious are you? You certainly do not sound like a Christian. Shocking display of hate and total ignorance. Shameful!

      4. T'Keren Valmaz says:

        Spoken like the degenerate you are. I suspect you are guilty of truly heinous things that you justify through perverting a faith founded on love and acceptance of all.

        1. Willard says:

          Somebody def needs a hug.

      5. Rev. THEO KLEBES says:

        So sad to see so much hate on this beautiful blog for the goodness and love it is created for.

      6. REV GRACE says:

        I agree with you, i will not apologize to them, but will go on loving on them and showing them that their life styles is an act of disgusting and immorality the worst thing condemed by the scripture.
        Apologizing in front of the world is encouraging the young brethren who are seeking to grow spiritually, that they too can engage into this Gay community and be right with God. No way that can be right. That’s a huge way in throwing the whole church into hell confusion.
        If the gays community are right, the the church is said to be wrong on what we believe.
        Lord help us…have mercy.

    5. T'Keren Valmaz says:

      Funny Joe, the same could be said about Jesus suffering for others sins.Based on what your saying here he clearly did not suffer for yours and you therefore must forever be damned in this world and whatever lays beyond it

    6. Kathleen Heseltine says:

      No problem Joe.. the haters are always going to hate in spite of Jesus command that we should love one another, that we should not judge, that we should love our neighbors as OURSELVES. If you feel better as a hater, you go right ahead and hate … the only person it hurts is YOU..

      1. Joe says:

        Again, just for you.
        The problem I have with this apology is that it groups all Christians as anti-gay.
        Saying that I didn’t need to apologise was meant to be more collective. Most of us don’t need to apologise because we have no problem with gays.

  3. Atatakai says:

    It is wonderful to see some people waking up regarding treating one another in kindness instead of disdain and ignorant bigotry.

    Thank you for this article! I hope it can open a few hearts/minds as well as the thinking processes of those who still hate.

  4. Larry copeland says:

    Love the sinner HATE the SIN

    1. Carl Elfstrom says:

      Or love both the sin and the sinner.

    2. Carl Elfstrom says:

      It’s wrong for us to hate anything. It is wrong to even hate hatefulness. Get your mind off hate and think about its opposite, which is love. Don’t dwell on the things you don’t like which incites your hate but think only of what you love and experience joy from it.

      1. Lori Mongillo says:

        Exactly Carl! But it’s not always easy.

      2. bob fluetsch says:

        Carl, why the gross ,ambiguous generalization “. . . .wrong to hate anything.”
        The curse of drugs on society, the violence of home invasions, political corruption resulting in starvation, murder, etc. No, Carl, let’s love these actions, behavior.
        Then, maybe you are better than and have loftier concepts than our Heavenly Father Who hates Proverbs 6:16-19; Malachi 2:16; Deuteronomy 16:22.
        And Jesus has the same viewpoint, since He said He and His Father are one.
        And in Ephesians 4:29 we find there is a provision for being ‘angry’.

        1. Lori Mongillo says:

          Pagans aren’t concerned with Proverbs and Deuteronomy. They’re more concerned with tolerance and diversity, internal growth and environmental concerns.

          1. bob fluetsch says:

            Very well said!

    3. The Rev. Robert Barker says:

      Yes, Larry Copeland; We love you in spite of your bigotry and homophobia. Repent!!

    4. The Rev. Robert Barker says:

      Yes, Larry Copeland. We GLBTQ people love you but hate your sin of bigotry, homophobia, and hate. God bless you.

    5. Lori Mongillo says:

      And do you consider yourself a sinner, Larry? The last thing Jesus did on earth was die for our sins. Isn’t that how the story goes. Aren’t we all sinners?

      1. The Rev. Robert Barker says:

        Yes, Larry Copeland. We love you in spite of your hate, bigotry, and homophobia. Love the sinner, hate the sin.

  5. Willie34 says:

    All you religious nut cases ought to wake up.
    Be Spiritual and not religious. More people have been tortured and killed in the name of God, all false gods.
    There is only One Source which is Energy. Which we are and Every thing else is created by and through and is Energy. All other gods have been created by the different religions according to their belief system because people first needed a crutch/religion before the could walk alone.So wake up! If you brain does not understand Quantum Physics yet or String Theory at least read the book “The crucifixion of Truth”, contriving to deceive or “The Bible Fraud” or any of Tony Bushby’s books! Or many other books that have researched the bible or in archaeology for that matter. Or on YouTube for that matter! Quit getting brain washed and think for you self and do some of fashioned reading and studying! Wake up, what you don’t use, you loose!

    1. George says:

      Willie34 is on his string theory quantum physics again. His knowledge on either was displayed with the few scientific words he used. Even that didn’t make any sense. Perhaps, Willie, you should try some new important sounding words as anyone reading a few of your columns recognizes the same pattern as you previously used. Borrrring.

      1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW says:

        Nasty and hopeless. Willie34, ignore the obvious.

      2. Lori Mongillo says:

        George, you’re a dinosaur. You just don’t (or can’t) get it. It’s too bad folks like you cling to the BS they’ve been handed. It gets passed down from generation to generation and the receivers truly believe that that’s the way it is. Someday someone in your genetic line will break free and gain a bit of insight. Dinosaurs are very borrring. Their brains were the size of walnuts.

    2. John Owens says:

      So, you’re saying, the religious nut-cases need to wake up. Are you saying that people who are NOT religious are NOT nutcases? Or, that they ARE, or MAY BE, but that they do NOT need to wake up? Or, that they are nut-cases but are already awake? Does reading Tony Bushby’s writings make one more astute, and inoculate one against brain-washing? I’m trying to get the real gist of what you are saying here, Willie.

      1. John Owens says:

        Oh, and what about religious people who aren’t nut-cases? Do they also need to awaken? Or can they just snooze? A lot of really vague innuendo here.

  6. Carl Elfstrom says:

    I’m in awe by this, and am speechless. That’s a first for me. I will say one thing. Although it may be slow, I bet this will have a domino effect around the world. Blessed be! And since this is July, “Merry Christmas!”

  7. Carl Elfstrom says:

    Hermes Trismegistus explained it perfectly thousands of years ago. Read the Kybalion by Three Initiates. It’s about time I did so again too, followed by Way Of The Shaman. I’ll try to do so before posting another comment. I might even take another spirit quest. Blessed be !

    1. Lori Mongillo says:

      Thanks Carl. I have read the Kybalion, but not Way Of The Shaman. I will check that out.

  8. James says:

    So crushing all religions is your answer .Sounds communist to me. Yet, I don’t need an apology, or to apologize to anyone that I know of. As for the Christian Bible, it does call sexual immorality an abomination. Kind of sums that up. One person’s emotional feelings doesn’t represent anyone else. Doctrine is just that, faith, belief and fellowship are the same. Yet, energy in doesn’t equal the same energy out. Because the body loses mass upon death, unexplainablely. The closest thing a nonbelieve has came up with is that it is information returning to the “universe” . Now the most famous scientist “hawking” admitted God exists. So why would an engineer design something with the intention of malfunctioning? Right, sexual things desires are changeable.. Self control is capable Insanity is not curable. No more pearls before swine!

  9. Willie34 says:

    Here are some links you can look up on YouTube if you don’t know what to look for.
    🌺🎶😍🙏

    1. Willie34 says:

      Since I am being blocked from giving name look on YouTube for astrophysicists, cellular biologist, resonance theory, and quantum physics.🙏🌺

      1. Carl Elfstrom says:

        The ancients knew what scientists are beginning to understand.

      2. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW says:

        Thank you Willie34 and those enlightened people here.

      3. George says:

        I understand the science of energy and how it affects life. If it wasn’t for the Higgs-Boson partical (the God partical) all that energy would still be just that, waves and particle without mass.

        And it doesn’t matter (pun intended) what or who created man. I just have one question if you studied the bible you would know that there are hundreds of commandmentd not just 10.

        Those other commandments address such things as not to touch a dead body then a living one without cleaning the hands, donot place your bodily waste close to where you live but far in the field and bury it. The same holds true for animal blood and entrails.

        The question is, How did Moses know this? Who gave him this information hundreds of years before scientist even new germs existed? You don’t suppose God had that info and shared it with us do you? OK so I can’t count.

        1. T'Keren Valmaz says:

          actually Georgina all the discovery of the HBP did was verify the existence of the Unified Particle Field. Which actually makes a sci fi fantasy faith like The Force in star wars make more sense then any so called Real Faith through history.

          To paraphrase Master Yoda.

          Life creates it ( studies of light quanta and how light waves only act as particles when observed would seem to fit right here)

          Makes it grow ( Light becomes matter through the simple yet almost magical route of plants. Every day about 80 tons of plant matter grow on our world, Many of the elements on our planet were not part of its original materials but came into being through bio chemical reactions with the early plant life several billions years ago).

          Its energy surrounds us and binds us( the Unified particle field fits nicely here)

          Luminous beings are we not this crude matter( at the sub atomic level everything is the same basic energy or light quanta as good ol Albert E called them.)

          You must feel the Force around you( The warmth of the sun on your skin is a perfect example of feeling that energy)

          Between you and me ( get in a pool and have a friend cannonball in a few feet from you, You are feeling the energy between you)

          So one might say George Lucas was more right about the nature of our universe when he had Yoda say those things, then pretty much any established religion ever has been when trying to explain the whats whens wheres whys and whose of existence.

          Which is why I prefer to describe myself as a Meta Physicist and spiritual counselor rather then a minister etc.

      4. Lori Mongillo says:

        Thank you.

  10. Tom says:

    It is good to see the appeal for forgiveness, with the love….Tom

  11. Ben says:

    I just don’t get it. Didn’t Jesus say “:Love your neighbor as yourself”? There weren’t any exceptions to that. Then there was the whole judge not, lest ye be judged thing.
    That said, shouldn’t all Christians be tolerant?

    As long as I’m opining, wasn’t Christ the Prince of Peace? Why are our Christian leaders always keeping us at war?

    1. bob fluetsch says:

      Your ‘love’ bit sound good in a general sense. BUT, Jesus judged behavior and attitudes. And we, too, are to be perceptive, wary, and discerning of people’s motives, actions, etc. The Scriptures support this readily.

      1. John D. Partin says:

        Bob, did Jesus judging of behavior and attitudes keep Him from showing love even for a Pagan Roman soldier, who came to Him for help in healing his sick and near death servant or did He heal that servant, anyway, through the Roman’s faith (Matthew 8:8)? If anyone’s motives, actions, behavior, attitude, etc. were going to prevent Jesus from showing love to someone, it would certainly have been those of a Pagan Roman soldier! All of that judging of motives, actions, behavior, attitudes, etc. (even supposing that Jesus authorized any of that judging, which He didn’t), therefore, doesn’t come before His teaching that we should love other people. Jesus didn’t say “By your judging of other people’s motives, actions, attitudes, and behavior will all men know that you are my disciples”, but “By your love for one another will all men know that you are my disciples” (John 13:35). So, Jesus Himself put love first, not judging people’s motives, attitudes, behavior, and actions, which, very often, gets in the way of our loving them, and it isn’t loving gay people to call them “disgusting” and “unnatural” as you have done. God doesn’t even consider homosexuality to be disgusting or abominable or reprehensible or unnatural, as you have claimed, but those words were merely put into His mouth by Bible writers who wanted to make Him say whatever they wanted Him to say and, thereby, gain power and control over people and “sanctify” their bigotry, as I wrote you in another message.

        1. bob fluetsch says:

          Typical of you ‘lovers’ / ‘tolerators’, John, to focus on the one side of the coin. AND I did NOT call the LBGT?XYZ people ‘disgusting’ and ‘unnatural’ as you wrongly claimed. I referred to their practice and behavior as such.
          Since you’re quoting Jesus . . . He said ‘love for one another’, NOT love for their sinful behavior. As He did, we too can love the person, but abhor their practice.

          1. John D. Partin says:

            Bob, by your standard, can people also refer to your behavior and homophobic bigoted “thinking” as disgusting and unnatural and abhor your practice of all that, while still trying to show love to you as a person? By the way, calling the LBGT community “the LBGT?XYZ people” is insulting to them personally, not just to their behavior, the same as someone’s calling you and your family and ethnic group (I assume Germans) “Flush” or “Krauts” or some other ridiculing and insulting term would be. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you, which means don’t ridicule or belittle them if you wouldn’t want that done to you. Also, you still haven’t answered or shown why the verses in the Bible against homosexuality couldn’t just have been put there, into God’s mouth, by homophobic writers, in order to make “God” agree with them and sanction their views. If you could find any absolute proof that that isn’t what happened, I and many others here (and in the world) would be very happy to read it!!!

          2. John D. Partin says:

            Bob, love isn’t just “one side of the coin”, but the whole coin, because Jesus said, in answer to what is the great commandment in the law: “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets” (Matthew 22:36-40) and “By this will everyone know that you are my disciples, if you love one another” (John 13:35). So, it is all about love, and calling people “the LBGT?XYZ people” and, thereby, insulting them, when you wouldn’t want that done to you, isn’t love!! “God is love” (1 John 4:8) and so, obviously, whatever isn’t love, in the Bible or anywhere else, isn’t God or from God. Homophobia is hatred and bigotry and so, logically, it isn’t love or from God. That is a basic proposition of logic: something can’t be A and non-A at the same time. Homophobia is contrary to the love of God and love of neighbor, which Jesus says are the basis of the whole law. You still haven’t proven that gay people’s behavior is something that should be condemned by you or anyone else because it is actually sinful, instead of just “sinful” according to homophobic bigots who made and make God “agree” with them and you. I’m waiting for that proof. Until then, love gay people and everyone else the same as you love yourself and give them the same rights and freedoms that you enjoy, as Jesus commands.

    2. Lori Mongillo says:

      These are really good questions. Are there any real Christians out there listening? It seems that so many are filled with anger. Isn’t it suppose to be love. The Pastor in this article is presenting Christianity as it should be. With love for all. Sometimes it’s hard to believe that Jesus is truly the focus with all the hostility that comes through. I wonder if these people ever take the time to think about what they’re saying.

      1. Willard says:

        I doubt it Lori.

        1. Willard says:

          Angry, hating Christians are worse than atheists.

          1. Lori Mongillo says:

            They are.

          2. Tom says:

            Willard…respectfully, all comparisons are judgments, and we do not progress spiritually through judgments; only through love and compassion…what we perceive as negative actions are part of the karma of others, and if it affects us it is part of our karma…what appears to be “bad” or “good” appears to us to be that way through judgment…the more we are loving and compassionate, the less we see “bad”…Peace…Tom

      2. Allen Tobolewski says:

        1, Your quote, Yahushua said, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” is only 1/2 the teaching. It is not credible to only use part of a verse or part of a teaching.You don’t get it because you only used part of the verse you sort-of quoted.
        2, there were exceptions, read on.
        1, You will notice that it takes a whole new meaning when you use complete verses of the teaching.
        Mat 22:36 “Teacher, which is the great command in the Torah?” 37 And יהושע Yahushua, said to him, “ ‘You shall love יהוה YHWH, your Elohim with all your heart, and with all your being, and with all your mind.’ Quoting Deut 6:5.
        38 “This is the first and great command. “And the second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ “On these two commands hang all the Torah and the Prophets.”
        Mat 19:17 …But if you wish to enter into (eternal) life, guard the commands.”
        So, Yahushua taught the Torah and it says no lgbt actions will be in the Kingdom of YHWH.
        3, Prince of peace???
        Well, Yahushua said this too.
        Mat 10:34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword,1 Footnote: 1In Lk. 12:51 the word “division” is used, while “sword” has the same meaning here. for I have come to bring division, a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law – and a man’s enemies are those of his own household. “He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me, and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
        Torah of YHWH states in Lev 18:22 ‘And do not lie with a male as with a woman, it is an abomination. Etc.”
        I do not believe any lgbt approached Yahushua on this, do you? He was teaching against Oral laws of the Jews and all other trespasses against the written Torah of YHWH.
        Church christians must follow the preachers if they say be tolerant of sin against YHWH, True christians follow Yahushua and therefore YHWH’s instructions.
        Shabbath shalom

    3. John A Anderson, CD says:

      Unfortunately, Ben, because the leader are more often than not worshiping power, rather than whatever deity they profess to follow. And, as a result, they become more and more corrupt.

    4. bob fluetsch says:

      As usual, you ‘lovers’ are generalizing into the wind. We are to hate and avoid sinful PRACTICES. God hates sin and the practice of the same. But, loving the PERSON is appropriate. The same with judging: the Scriptures contain numerous admonitions to be perceptive, discerning, and judging (as was Jesus) when it come to behavior, lifestyle and practice. Not judging the person or practitioners of abhorrent, unnatural, and sinful activities.

      1. T'Keren Valmaz says:

        Actually no Bob The man called the Messiah never once said to hate not once in any of the texts that likely came from his lifetime. The portions you cling to are either old testament which Jesus abhorred and condemned as the old covenant that was to be left in the past, or by selectively edited and intentionally mistranslated versions written many centuries after his time.

        Whatever it is you think you are, you are not an actual follower of the man that some refer to as the Christ.

        1. Allen Tobolewski says:

          T’Keren Valmaz , I don’t have a clue what “bible” you are reading from, It can’t be the famous one, The word of YHWH.
          ​If you are using the famous one then, please show us one verse where Messiah states that He “abhorred and condemned” HIS Father’s words.
          In the mean time I will show you that He could not change one word of YHWH but instead taught it.
          Deu 18:18 “I shall raise up for them a Prophet like you out of the midst of their brothers. And I shall put My Words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him.”
          One more time adding the names. Deu 18:18 ‘I YHWH, shall raise up for them, Jews, a Prophet,Yahushua, like you, Moshe, out of the midst of their brothers, tribe of Yahudah/Judah. And I shall put My Words, the Torah, in His mouth, and He, Yahushua, shall speak, teach, to them,Jews, all that I command Him.
          Yahushua’s miracles also matched Moshe’s at least 50 times, as witnessed in Matt, Mark, Luke and John. Both of these proved that He was the right guy to 10,000 Jews. These Jews left Judaism’s Oral Torah and repented/returned to the written Torah. This was the “Salvation from Sin.”
          More proof:
          Yahushua said,
          Mat 15:3 But He answering, said to them, “Why do you also transgress the Torah of Elohim because of your tradition/Oral-Torah/minhagim?
          Mat 22: 37 And יהושע Yahushua, said to him, “ ‘You shall love יהוה YHWH, your Elohim with all your heart, and with all your being, and with all your mind.’ (Quoting Deut 6:5.) 38 “… “And the second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commands hang all the Torah and the Prophets.”
          Jas 2:8 If you truly accomplish the sovereign Torah according to the WRITTEN, “You shall love your neighbour as yourself,” …,
          Mat 19:17 …But if you wish to enter into (eternal) life, Keep the commands.”
          Jas 2:12 So speak and so do as those who are to be judged by a Torah of freedom.
          1Jn 5:3 For this is the love for Elohim, that we guard His commands,1 and His commands are not heavy,
          The teachings of Yahushua go on and on, but the church christians never teach.
          So, Yahushua taught the Torah. No abomination toward YHWH from Him.
          So do you follow Yahushua the messiah?
          Shalom, Allen

        2. bob fluetsch says:

          T’Keren: NO where in the Bible is there a mention of Jesus abhorring or condemning God’s Word.. NO where!

    5. Allen Tobolewski says:

      Hey people in control, where is my answer to Ben?

    6. Allen Tobolewski says:

      Ben,
      1, Your quote, Yahushua said, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” is only 1/2 the teaching. It is not credible to only use part of a verse or part of a teaching.You don’t get it because you only used part of the verse you sort-of quoted.
      2, there were exceptions, read on.
      1, You will notice that it takes a whole new meaning when you use complete verses of the teaching.
      Mat 22:36 “Teacher, which is the great command in the Torah?” 37 And יהושע Yahushua, said to him, “ ‘You shall love יהוה YHWH, your Elohim with all your heart, and with all your being, and with all your mind.’ Quoting Deut 6:5.
      38 “This is the first and great command. “And the second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ “On these two commands hang all the Torah and the Prophets.”
      Mat 19:17 …But if you wish to enter into (eternal) life, guard the commands.”
      So, Yahushua taught the Torah and it says no lgbt actions will be in the Kingdom of YHWH.
      3, Prince of peace???
      Well, Yahushua said this too.
      Mat 10:34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword,1 Footnote: 1In Lk. 12:51 the word “division” is used, while “sword” has the same meaning here. for I have come to bring division, a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law – and a man’s enemies are those of his own household. “He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me, and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
      Torah of YHWH states in Lev 18:22 ‘And do not lie with a male as with a woman, it is an abomination. Etc.”
      I do not believe any lgbt approached Yahushua on this, do you? He was teaching against Oral laws of the Jews and all other trespasses against the written Torah of YHWH.
      Church christians must follow the preachers if they say be tolerant of sin against YHWH, True christians follow Yahushua and therefore YHWH’s instructions.
      Shabbath shalom Allen

  12. Rev. THEO KLEBES says:

    Amen.

  13. Willard says:

    All I can add to this “discussion” is that it degraded into typical internet cowboy type derogatory comments……so……..sad.

    Un-Christian. Un-believeable.

    1. Dr. Hogan says:

      Wow, this was just like the gossip Facebook but with more religious over tones but the same content still focused on “I’m right and you are wrong” theme. I was expecting a healthy and informative discussion, but quickly disappointed about the direct blows to the LGBT community. Seriously, if someone is really serious about saving another would it be better to speak with kindness than sharpness? Is bullying “really” going to change a person, if that is necessary? Psychologically, a person will only change it they are willing to change. I see too many “religious” people harbor negative feelings that contradict the alleged doctrine they swear by, to only cherry pick what they want to support their views and attack others, taking the path of least resistance and removing the focus from themselves. We are all stuck on this planet till we die, we need to be more open and accepting as Christ was open and accepting of other.

      1. Rev. THEO KLEBES says:

        Thank you!!!!

      2. Lori Mongillo says:

        Yes……Thank you. Many people are simply acting on what they’ve been taught or what they’ve heard from others. Thinking for themselves and becoming aware of the wonders in this world requires work and heart. It’s too bad so many people are trapped in a prison of their own making. They have chosen to be close minded. It’s easier. You don’t have to grow.

        1. Tom says:

          Lori…i feel you have made many insightful comments…this particular one (7/16 at 5:35 am) is very accurate for almost everyone…they think it is the world resisting them, when it is actually the opposite…in a sense they choose the “opposition” of the world, over the effort to be loving and compassionate…it seems easier, even though long range (through their many lifetimes) it prolongs their lives here…while karma is an absolute, it still leaves room for elected growth, but we have to make the effort…Peace…Tom

          1. Lori Mongillo says:

            Peace to you, Tom, and blessed be!

          2. Tom says:

            Lori…thank you…Peace…Tom

  14. Jeff says:

    Homosexuality and transgender activity is a sin, no questions there. However, judge the sin, not the sinner. It is our mission, as Christians, to tend to sinners and provide a Godly example for them. They should be invited into our churches and into our lives. But they should also be counselled as to their sin. Now with all of this said, why is there a need for a Gay Pride Parade or celebration? I have many gay friends and relatives and they all make one comment, “we just want to be accepted like everyone else.” Well, here is a revelation, to be accepted you do not have a parade about your difference, you do not call attention to your lifestyle. Heterosexuals do not need a parade to validate their lifestyle. If the gay community is holding a parade to show they are special, apart from heterosexuals, then they are in fact using heterosexuality as the norm and as such are celebrating their difference from the norm…in other words they are saying they are not normal, or abnormal. Isn’t this what they do not want? To be abnormal? Then stop the parades and celebrate something we all can relate to.

    1. bob fluetsch says:

      Outstanding comment, Jeff. Objective, factual, logical and persuasive. Good on you!

    2. John D. Partin says:

      First of all, Jeff, you haven’t proved that homosexuality and transgender activity are sins, just because it says so in some verses of the Bible. No matter what kind of Tower of Babel, Mount Olympus, and Mount Everest combined (and more!) pedestal that you have the Bible up on, the plain truth is that it was written by human beings, no matter how “divinely inspired”, and human beings just don’t get it right all of the time or even get right what other human beings are saying. So, how could they possibly get everything that God is saying right all of the time? Impossible! The Inquisition, Crusades, Conquistadores in the New World, imprisonment of Galileo, belief in a flat earth, “holy” wars, fighting between Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland, pogroms and genocides and ethnic cleansings down through history, the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center, etc. ad infinitum prove that human beings don’t even understand what God is telling them or they couldn’t have done all of those things—-and still be doing them! I wouldn’t trust you or any of your ilk to give me directions across town or across the street, much less to tell what God is saying or how to get to Heaven!!! If the Holy Spirit didn’t prevent people from doing all of those things and saying wrong things, He wouldn’t prevent them from writing wrong things (their own prejudices and stupid ideas) in the Bible, either, instead of your view that the Bible alone, out of everything else in the world, is the one place where people could never say anything wrong. The evidence doesn’t support that view because, then, we would have to say that Paul’s statement that “Cretans are always liars, evil wild beasts, idle bellies” (Titus 1:12) was the truth, instead of the obvious prejudice and bigotry against Cretans that it was, and we would have to say that Deuteronomy 22:11 forbidding the wearing of wool and linen together was a reasonable prohibition from God, instead of, obviously, the human idea and prejudice that it was, which was put into God’s mouth, and that the mass killings of Midianites and other ancient peoples, committed by Moses and the Israelites, and the command to stone to death adulterers, fornicators, homosexuals (the same as Nazis gassed homosexuals along with Jews and others), etc. were actually what God told them to do, instead of, obviously, just what they wanted to do and then made “God” sanction it by “commanding” it. The Bible is full of this kind of thing! If Paul and other people could put their obvious prejudices into God’s mouth, so as to sanction them by saying “God said it”, how do you know that they didn’t put their prejudices into God’s mouth about homosexuality, to forbid it and “justify” and sanction their bigotry against homosexuality? You don’t! If they could–and did–write their own bigoted views about other things in the Bible, they could (and probably did) write their own bigoted views about homosexuality there, too. If they could do one, they could do the other. Secondly, what do you mean that people who want to be accepted as “normal” don’t have a parade? What about the St. Patrick’s Day Parade for Irish people (and everyone else who claims to be “Irish” that day)? What about the Rose Bowl Parade, which isn’t even about a group of people, but a football game, for Pete’s sake?! What about the Thanksgiving Day Parade? What about the Easter Parade? What about the Million Man March on Washington D.C.? What about other Civil Rights marches and the historic one where Dr. Martin Luther King spoke his “I Have A Dream” speech in front of the Lincoln Memorial? What about the demonstrations and marches against Trumpelstiltskin now being led in front of the White House and across the country because of his stupid betrayal of America in his summit with Vladimir Putin on Monday? In short, what about all marches, parades, and demonstrations down through history? All of these people wanted—and want—to be accepted by society and yet proclaim their difference from others in society at the same time. Why should all of them have the right and obligation to do so, but gay people alone (according to you) don’t have that same right and obligation to proclaim their difference from others in society, while still wanting to be accepted by society? Demonstrating and parading for your rights and to celebrate your differences from others is the only way that your rights and those differences EVER!!! get accepted by the rest of society, as black people and Hispanic people and many others can tell you! We don’t have to be able to relate to everything else that everyone else is doing (or we would have to be able to relate to Nazi Party and Ku Klux Klan or “Christian” conservative gatherings and “thinking”, too), but we do have to allow other people freedom of speech and expression. That is why I and others here tolerate even you and Bob Fluetsch and your ilk.

      1. John D. Partin says:

        As an addenda, Jeff, in anticipation of your objection to my statement that homophobic writers of the Bible just put those verses in it that condemn homosexuality in order to make “God agree with them” and sanction and “justify” their own bigotry against gay people: “If we say that these Bible verses didn’t come from God, but were just put into God’s mouth by writers of the Bible, we make the Bible the word of man, instead of the Word of God”, I have to say: Not at all! It doesn’t make all money counterfeit when we recognize counterfeit money and don’t treat it the same as real money or try to spend it. Likewise, it doesn’t make the whole Bible wrong because we recognize that there are wrong ideas and stupid prejudices in the Bible and don’t treat them the same as truly Godly teachings and practices. The result of treating garbage homophobic prejudices in the Bible as though they were actually from God and the truth is homophobic bigots’ pointing to the Bible to “justify” their own idiocy and all of the violence, discrimination, and injustice committed against gay people down through history and today “in the name of God”! Short of a gigantic hand’s coming out of the sky and having written everything in the Bible, in front of millions of witnesses (and nobody claims that that is how the Bible was written!), it was actually just written by human beings and human beings always put their two cents in on anything that is being done or written. Let’s just not accept these Bible writers’ “two cents” contribution to the Bible, while still recognizing and accepting what is of actual value and truly from God in it, namely, LOVE AND ACCEPTANCE OF OTHER PEOPLE!!! Homophobia and all other hateful ideas in the Bible or anywhere else that don’t promote love and acceptance are, quite obviously, from man and can be safely ignored and discarded!!!! “Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets” (Matthew 22:36-40).

    3. Lori Mongillo says:

      Jeff, I’m guessing you really don’t get the picture as to why the gay community has parades and is voicing who they are. In the good old days, as well as today, they have been brutally beaten and verbally abused for being different in the eyes of homophobic Christians, whether they practiced homosexuality or not,( mainly those that have not been able to hide that they’re different). They’re in a consent battle with the heterosexual world. They were created the way they are, by “God”. It’s not a choice. It’s a real physical difference they are experiencing, (you should take the time to look into it). Most people recognize this, unless they are ignorant and, as I said earlier, not able to grow beyond their own closed mindedness and lack of compassion.
      Through these parades, and by voicing who they are, they make the world aware that they exist, that they have suffered for a very long time at the hands of homophobic people and that they are not going away. They are also opening the door to those who suffer in hiding because of judgement’s made by family and the faith community (who really have no right to judge, as some Christian folk have professed). If the gay community didn’t have to deal with all the resistance they wouldn’t be having parades and such.
      What you consider normal is all in your mind, because there really is no such thing. Everyone is different. Those that refer to the word “normal” , in speaking of others, (and I’m not talking about people that cause harm. I’m referring to those that don’t harm other through their actions) are simply referring to their own little homophobic world that exists inside their head. It’s all about giving life to the fear of acceptance of something that does not need to be feared. Those like you are cut off from reality and cannot see beyond themselves.

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