Most flight delays get met with sighs, a scroll through Instagram, or a muttered complaint to the stranger in the next seat. Whitney Lynn apparently met hers by standing up in the aisle and preaching a sermon to her fellow passengers.
On July 30, Alaska Airlines Flight 708 sat at the gate in Orlando, bound for San Diego, when Lynn rose and told the cabin that the delay was no accident, that it might even be sparing everyone from danger, and that Jesus loved them. Less than a minute in, a flight attendant's call button chimed in the background of the video she was recording.
Soon after, a crew member asked her to gather her things and leave the plane, telling her the crew did not feel safe with her aboard.
Lynn later received an email from Alaska Airlines placing a hold on her ability to fly the airline and its sister carriers, Hawaiian Airlines and Horizon Air, while her recent travel is reviewed. She was issued a flight credit she currently has no way to use. She described the ordeal as an act of spiritual warfare, said she plans to consult an attorney, and has told reporters she intends to keep preaching on planes.
Where Does Sharing Faith End and Cornering Strangers Begin?
This was not Lynn's first time turning a cabin into a pulpit. In a clip posted after an earlier flight landed in San Diego, she spent close to a minute addressing sin, Hell, redemption and Jesus while passengers around her stayed fixed on their phones and bags. She captioned that video, "I just love a captive audience."
Lynn is not alone in the practice. Brett Raio, a 24-year-old musician from Maine, told The Washington Post he preaches on flights whenever he feels God prompting him, reasoning that a missed moment could be a missed chance to reach someone before it is too late. "God had you there for that specific opportunity, and you missed your shot," he said of ignoring that prompt.
Airlines have little formal recourse against passengers who argue that they are merely evangelizing, rather than threatening or disrupting, which is part of why sky-bound sermons have become a small, recurring genre of viral video this year.
However, not every Christian voice is cheering the trend. Rodney Kennedy, a retired pastor who writes as a self-described progressive preacher, has argued that faith shared without relationship, trust or permission usually lands poorly. He has suggested that cornering strangers tends to confirm whatever suspicions they already carried about Christians, rather than soften them. It is a case less against faith than against forcing it on people who never agreed to listen, a distinction some evangelists on these flights seem less interested in drawing.
What Do Jesus and Other Faiths Teach About This?
Evangelists who preach on planes often cite Jesus's final instruction to his followers: go into the world and make disciples of every nation. But they often skip the followup... those same Gospels also record what he told them to do when a message went unwelcome: Leave the house or town, and shake the dust from their feet rather than linger and insist. The mandate to spread the word came paired with the direction to walk away.
Other traditions draw an even firmer line than Lynn does. The Quran calls believers to invite others with wisdom and gracious speech, a standard many Muslim scholars read as explicitly ruling out pressure, alongside its own declaration that there is no compulsion in religion. Judaism has generally avoided seeking converts at all; tradition holds that a rabbi should turn away a would-be convert three times before taking their interest seriously, nearly the opposite of chasing down a captive audience.
A Recurring Question in a New Setting
The irony is that Alaska Airlines itself once handed out Psalm-quoting prayer cards to first class passengers during meal service, a practice the carrier dropped roughly a decade ago. What has not gone away is the underlying tension: a captive audience is not the same as a willing one, whether the pulpit is a cabin aisle, a sidewalk, or the back seat of a rideshare.
ULC's blog has followed that same tension into a Supreme Court case over a Mississippi street preacher and into the rise of drivers proselytizing their own passengers. Each case asks a version of the same question: at what point does someone's freedom to witness run into someone else's freedom to simply get where they are going.
Lynn does not appear to see it that way. She has framed her removal as persecution rather than a boundary crossed, and nothing about the ban seems likely to change her approach. On her instagram profile she continues to post videos of herself evangelizing in trams, gyms, elevators, and even Chipotle. That leaves the rest of us, on this flight and the next one, to decide where we land on the question ourselves.
What do you think separates a genuine act of faith from an unwanted one? Should airlines write explicit policies on in-flight preaching, the way they do for other disruptive behavior? And does filming the sermon for social media change its purpose?
107 comments
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Justin Adam Kalm
I wonder if she's mentally ill or just extremely committed to an attention-grabbing, money-making schtick. I don't know whether to feel sorry for her or loathe her. A little of both, I guess.
I wish people would understand that the right to freedom of speech is not and was never meant to be absolute. It's also not a right to be heard. You only have the right to speak on a street corner if others on that corner have the right to walk away if they don't want to listen to you. The inside of a public conveyance is a shared space, one that relies upon us respecting other's boundaries to function safely. People who choose to take advantage of those spaces to deliver uninvited speeches should be censured and removed, if possible, no matter the content of their speeches.
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Keith D
Perfectly said, Justin.
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Maria Elisa Koch
What if I'm not a Christian? What if I'm Jewish or another religion, what right did she have to preach to a captive audience? I would've stood up and praise Satan!!He was a falling angel.
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Rev. Miche'al Yosef Dixon
This is one of those events I'm divided as I'm glade and supporting of anyone who publicly declares Yeshua (Jesus) Gospel to as commanded. Yet, this is where she should have remembered as the article pointed out, our Savior commanded us let them walk away, and in that situation the others didn't have that opportunity. An Air plane is private property as much as someone's house and must be treated with the respect Yeshua commanded us to give. Preach the Gospel proudly but with wisdom and tack.
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Dr Dennis Chevalier, MDiv, PhD, DDvin, ULC honorary DD
Just to much hatred ...all of you are lost and are hopeless! All by your choice. When will you learn to forgive and not label, blame and stop cruelity?
Dr. D
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Rev. BH
Dr Dennis Chevalier, MDiv, PhD, DDvin, ULC honorary DD, etc. etc,
"Just to much hatred ...all of you are lost and are hopeless! All by your choice. When will you learn to forgive and not label, blame and stop cruelity?"
All of us? All but you?? And yet you always seem so willing to repudiate those of us you disagree with. Find some peace.
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Father Johnson
i agree with you and also understand were you! are coming from its like we all don't stick together as clergy every man and woman for themselves
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Dr Dennis Chevalier, MDiv, PhD, DDvin, ULC honorary DD
Amen Father
Dr. D
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Keith D
🤣🤣🤣
It's not hate, guys--speaking to Dennis and Fr Johnson. Refusing an imposition, and defending that rejection, is boundaries, and you guys can't stand that!
Think about what that says about your own psyches. And Metanoia.
Don't foist it. It's really very simple.
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Father Johnson
This all comes back to pastoral care; it's not about anything else at this point. When you have the gift and responsibility to offer pastoral care, you don't just focus on the negative or look for reasons to judge someone.
Refusing to offer grace or failing to understand that is a problem on your end, not mine—and it's not a problem on Dennis's end either. Both Dennis and I can offer real pastoral care without all the drama and insults, but it seems that is something you struggle to do
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Patricia Ann Gross
Fr. Johnson,
Pastoral care is a strange thing to hide behind as a justifcation for what this person was doing. As a trained Chaplain (i.e., one whose primariy vocation is pastroal care), I was NEVER allowed to force religion on anybody. In fact, I was required to ask permission before praying with a patient in the hospital, hospice AND the homeless shelter I served in. Otherwise, I was in serious conflict with my professional ethics, and I find this behavior to a CAPTIVE audience to be offensive and unprofessional (among other things.) And for those that would say this has nothing to do with safety concerns has never been on a plane or any other crowded space when an argument or fight broke out. By being disrespectful to the captives, she was asking for someone to try and shut her up, and interfering with the safety briefing by the flight attendants.
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Father Johnson
I appreciate your perspective as a trained chaplain, and I completely agree with the core principle you stated: true pastoral care requires consent, respect for boundaries, and situational awareness.
Where we differ is not on whether her actions breached standard protocol—they clearly did. An airplane aisle during a safety briefing is not the appropriate setting for a sermon, and respect for a captive audience is essential.
My point from the beginning has been about how we respond to a young minister who makes a serious error in judgment out of misguided zeal. Professional ethics call for correction, but Christian grace calls us to offer that correction through guidance and mentorship rather than public condemnation. Recognizing a breach of protocol does not require us to abandon pastoral care for the individual who made the mistake.
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Patti Anne Lisenbee
If I had been there I would have told her to shut up and sit down, I want to hear the safety briefing the cabin personnel are trying to give! I would do the same thing if it were a rideshare driver, someone in an elevator or even on a street corner. Keep your beliefs to yourself.
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Rev Ned
When people start doing what the voices in their heads tell them to, nothing good results. That said, the exception is, as Thomas Magnum called it, “that little voice in the back of your head”. When it’s warning you not to do something stupid, listen.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
- What do you think separates a genuine act of faith from an unwanted one?
Wherher it's wanted by everyone within a closed environment is what makes that distinction.
- Should airlines write explicit policies on in-flight preaching, the way they do for other disruptive behavior?
If it disrupts people then it's disruptive, it's not complicated.
- And does filming the sermon for social media change its purpose?
Filming it for social media reveals its purpose. Clearly its purpose is content creation.
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Jay Summers
I'm a Commercial Airline Pilot as well as an Ordained Minister. Any passenger interfering with the flight's safety or security including creating a disruption or distraction to other passengers is a serious safety and security concern. I don't care whether it's religion (any faith), politics (any party), peace to all men, death to our enemies, rowdy partiers or the rantings of a disturbed individual. Sorry, Not Sorry, you're off my plane. I will not compromise the safety and security of any flight to accommodate such disruption. Distraction, Disruptions and Disorderly Conduct IS a Safety & Security Concern in Airline Travel.
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Rev “D”
Preach it Rev Pilot Summers! Thank you to think of all the passengers. 100% agree.
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Carl Edward Gerdes
Good for Alaska Airline staff for booting her off the airplane, bless her heart. The USA is a religiously free nation, not a Christian nation. Each of us can believe in the god, or gods, or no god as our conscience teaches us. We use our intelligence to determine what faith, if any, and what values we choose to embrace. Someone preaching their version of god or gods requires the prior consent of the listener. Just as touch requires the prior consent of the person to be touched. Standing on a plane and speaking loudly without the prior consent of every single person on that plane is wrong and not to be condoned.
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William Angus Steadman II
One might consider that doing "good" for selfish reasons is not being "good." It is simply being good at being selfish.
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Rev. Mojo
She felt she needed to be heard and the only "audience" she could find was a plane on the runway....someone needs to help the poor lady. tongue-in-cheek
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sanctuary
Amen to that. I view her “preaching “ as unwelcome personal invasion. She appears to be seeking attention for herself with little regard for others.
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Rev “D”
Agreed
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Hector Luis Moctezuma
Faith cannot be imposed. And let us not forget, America is a land of freedom of religion, and freedom from religion. Theists and nonTheists both have protections under the law. One can always preach one’s faith to others, without words. With our acts. Posting on the Internet for likes, as she had done before, is an embarrassment to her spiritual tradition.
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Roy S. Thorpe
When you're spreading the WORD and are so moved to share, you may NOT interfere in others lives! Holding you audience captive is not God's way and is against man's law also! Did Jesus lock his followers in? NO! Creating hostile listeners is not a good way to share anything and will turn more people against you and your message!
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Geoffrey C. Olive
Isn’t that exactly what JC did when he wrecked the Temple of Jerusalem?
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Justin Adam Kalm
I don't know what version of the Gospels you've been reading, but in the translations I've seen, Jesus was supposed to have found the Temple defiled, and all he did was drive out the defilers and overturn the tables of those selling wares inside the Temple. Surely that's not the same thing as wrecking the Temple.
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Rev. BH
G.C.O. No.
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Keith D
Come on GC Olive,
I agree that she was flat wrong, coercing others to hear sermonizing that probably annoyed many. My inclination is same as yours: tell her to STFU.
And yes, to those who huffed at you that they hope you aren't clergy, as if their ears woukd melt on tgat word, I am 'clergy.' But think of me as more like Pale Rider than the kind that can't see Jesus defending a sacred space.
And that's the big difference. She was not in a sacred space. Or if she was, it was a sovereign, rightly 'leave me alone' space of a sort of secular collective, and she was tromping across rightful boundaries.
Jesus was defending the boundaries of a space consecrated and ordained for sacred action, not crass commercialization and demeaning of sacred actions.
The situations aren't remotely similar.
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Matthew Krebs
To anybody/everybody who supports what this person did, I challenge you to think about how you would have felt if it would have been a muslim man who stood up in the middle of the plane and started preaching in Arabic. Would you have felt safe? Would you have felt comforted? Would you think "Thank God (Allah), someone is here to praise Him, and share his good works and protections with me"? Or would you have felt uncomfortable that a religious zealot, who was sure they would be going to Heaven, was standing up in the middle of a crowded metal tube you were all about to be trapped in at 35,000 feet and telling you that you needed to accept their Saviour and Prophet before your death? Aside from the annoyance factor...
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Kenton Sherman McManigal
She was rude, but not a "safety concern".
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Gary
Any disruptive behavior on an airplane, and her behavior was disruptive, is a safety concern.
The flight attendants are responsible for the safety of everyone on board that aircraft. They cannot afford anyone potentially interfering with their duties, and she was interferring.
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Joseph Grieco
Her whole point was she claimed because they were HER "captive audience" she had the G_d-given right to preach to them. She was refusing to comply with the Cabin Crew's instructions. She was "Preaching" while the Flight Attendants were trying to give the pre-flight safety brief. She was the walking definition of what the FAA defines as a Safety Concern. After she was escorted off the plane, she should have been escorted to the Orange County Detention Center for booking and arraignment for Disturbing the Peace, and Creating a Public Nuisance.
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Lester
Wrong. Her obnoxious behavior could easily trigger someone to act violently.
I myself would have told her to STFU.
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Walter Abington
She’s not persecuted. She’s a self-entitled snob.
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Father Johnson
I reached out to Whitney Lynn and expressed my feelings about this whole situation. While I understand the rules and the airline's perspective on maintaining order, we also have to look at things from her point of view.
One of the things she mentioned may very well have been true: that flight delay could have been God protecting His sheep from danger, even though we will never know for sure. I also noted that she was on her way to give a sermon. Most clergy I know are always happy to get a chance to preach because it fuels the urge to spread the word even more, regardless of how well they already do their job.
Having reached out to this standing preacher of the faith, I stand by her. What I do not agree with or stand by is disrespect toward her calling, her faith, her outreach, or her ministry.
As for Whitney Lynn, keep up the good work. As she said, keep the word of the Gospel in your heart, for we are in the last days and we will be persecuted for the name of Jesus.
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Donald Frank Cowan
You are the very kind of person who makes people turn away from religion, and are no better than she is!
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Alexander Clarke
AMEN!
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Father Johnson
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Rev “D”
The only ones persecuted was that “captive audience” forced to listen to a zealot that thinks it’s okay to terrorize others while speaking about her personal beliefs on god’s actions. It seems like yesterday, a few other zealots espoused their beliefs too on what they believed was god’s actions. Thousands died shortly after. Anyone gets up on a airplane talking about or on behalf of their god, should be immediately be removed for safety & security reasons. Zealots & extremists come from every religion, can be both male and female. We can’t risk another of god’s 9/11.
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Gary
Father Johnson,
Her behavior provoked the response she is getting. And as she has provoked the negative response that she is getting, exactly how did her inappropriate conduct advance her ministry?
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Father Johnson
her behavior did not seem to provoke anyone I'm sure that someone would have told in their own words to sit down and stop what she was doing but being i spoke to her and found out the whole the whole story versus just taking the word of this platform (no offence to ulc)
but just because all of you don't understand her or the culture of her minstrel duty's and acts then that dose make it wrong, and the lack of understanding that you all shown is the only thing that is wrong in this case i as i may have said in my first comment i understand that she was on a plane on a a ir line but as i also said the one thing that she said may have been true in what she was preaching to them
the delay may have been God protecting them from something that very well would have been bad
just as you would NOT want someone to criticize you every move in ministry you should treat this the same way as we are instructed to do because it seems that we are not following one thing that us as clergy are supposed to do and that is look out for others who share the same pastoral authority
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Father Johnson
but i do apologize if this has offended you anyone and hope you stick together and men and woman of God
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Keith D
Fr Johnson,
If you got something from her that makes the reporting here, by ULC, inaccurate, I would personally welcome credible upgrade on the info.
That's a little hard to fathom, though, as this isn't her first rodeo with captive audience.
I agree that it may be true what she said about delay possibly protecting from worse problems. There are a million ways we can turn that, too, including the sparing of some vulnerable person where she was going--sparing them of her influence. Ya never know who's protected in a synchronicity.
So yeah, if the story is inaccurate, please share.
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Father Johnson
Keith,
What I have shared is based on knowing her personally and knowing her heart as a fellow minister—not on internet outrage or sensationalized reporting.
She was genuinely excited to serve and give a sermon, plain and simple. What is missing from the public narrative is basic context, intent, and grace. Spinning cynical theories about "protecting people from her influence" is unnecessary and completely misses the point of pastoral care.
My goal here is not to argue online reports line-by-line, but to remind us as Christians that our role is to extend guidance, mercy, and support—especially to young clergy—rather than jumping to destroy their character.
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Keith D
Oh my. So no real updates, and it's ok because she was just 'too excited.'
You like to refer to pastoral care. Shoving anything down anyone's throat is not that. And here you are supporting it. It's why I walked away from Christianity decades ago, this narcissism painted as zeal.
My spirituality is perhaps Christian, but no one post-Irinaeus would recognize it as such. I'm not sure too many of the Gnostic crew would call me Christian, either.
I am, however, ordained, active and called. I am often of service in many ways that transcend anything I see from your writings that you can conceive.
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Father Johnson
Keith,
First off, I am sorry that you walked away from the Church—whatever its origin was—and the faith you held at that time.
However, that does not give you the right to blame me, add to your reasons for leaving, or project that bitterness onto someone else.
I preach God's love, grace, mercy, humility, and everything the Gospels call us to do. If it were you on that plane, I would not have treated you the way you have treated others. I would have stepped in and told you directly that what you did wasn't right.
Let me explain this so you can understand:
I would have said, "That plane is not an appropriate place for what you are trying to offer. They have their own rules in place—not to target you specifically, but because that is how that environment operates. But the good news is there are many other places outside of an airplane where people would be more than happy to listen and engage with you. A plane is just not the right venue. If you'd like, I can give you some next steps on where to go from here—like visiting nursing homes or retirement communities, where residents would welcome the company and the environment is far better suited for it."
In those settings, many of the elderly often feel like they have no one to care for them in the way a priest, pastor, or clergy member would. Frequently, they feel like they only have God. If you meet someone in those care homes, they will be more than happy to receive you so you can care for them spiritually and offer restoration where needed—just remember to be gentle with them, because they are our elders.
See? That is pastoral care. It does not endorse the wrong action, nor does it excuse the mistake. It corrects the issue directly through "firm but soft mentoring."
Do you understand better now?
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Justin Adam Kalm
Did you happen to ask her why she felt entitled to preach to a group of people who hadn't invited her to preach to them, who were locked in an aluminum tube with her, with no way to leave?
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Father Johnson
Was I not clear after giving the reason the first three times?
She was on her way to give a sermon for a church, which is not an everyday opportunity for clergy in our age bracket. Even I myself, Father Johnson, have not yet had the opportunity to preach a full sermon for a church. When we are given the chance to preach, we are filled with joy—not only because we get to share the Good News of the Gospel, but because it is something we love deeply, just as Jesus loves us even when we fall short.
As I keep saying, she was not trying to hurt or offend anyone. Stop trying to portray her as someone with bad intentions just to fit your narrative.
Instead of tearing her down and making her out to be something she is not, learn how to apply real pastoral care to this situation. Show her mercy, support, and guidance where there is uncertainty. For all of you who call yourselves pastors, reverends, or ministers: let us actually act like it and offer guidance instead of destruction.
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Geoffrey C. Olive
Had I been on that plane I would’ve been deeply offended! You would probably be offended if an atheist had stood up and promoted atheism! Her invasion of anybody’s privacy in a public situation is not something you should try to justify because of your religious belief! It would be the same if it was political, so I suggest that you keep your religion to yourself! As a person who has already been indoctrinated you should understand that!
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Father Johnson
Geoffrey,
In a way, I could reverse this on you—because you, in particular, cannot seem to keep your views to yourself, often coming off as disrespectful and condescending, among other things.
As I have said in past statements—let me break this down for you in case you did not understand, being that you love correcting grammar so much—this is not a matter of "keeping views to yourself" when it comes to me.
I simply told one person on this thread that my "view" is simple: just because someone kicks a person while they are down doesn't mean we have to join in. In fact, we can stop it instead of letting that action continue.
Maybe this will help you understand better, Mr. English Enforcement.
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Justin Adam Kalm
I hear your frustration, and I apologize if I’m seeming deliberately obtuse, but I sincerely do not understand. You recognize what a special thing it is to be invited to preach, lamenting that you yourself have never been invited to give a sermon to a church. I think it’s a special thing to be invited because it’s not something that’s owed to us. It’s a sacred gift and nothing to be trifled with. It’s special because people who don’t have to listen to us are telling us that they want to listen to us, because they think we have something valuable to say. But it’s only special if we believe in the value of obtaining consent. If we believe that we can sermonize to whoever we want whenever we want, the value of being invited is nil. So, if you and Whitney Lynn understand the importance of being invited, why would you want to seize what you know needs to be freely given?
It’s even more difficult to understand in Whitney Lynn’s case, where she was on her way to deliver a sermon in a church where she had been invited to speak. Having been given that gift, why would she try to steal it from others along the way? It’s like winning a barbecue grill from Lowe’s and stopping by Home Depot to shoplift one on your way to pick up your prize.
I’m not in a position to offer Whitney Lynn pastoral care, but if I were, I would want to help her to understand consent and boundaries, and I would remind her that Jesus drew his flock to him. He sought a willing audience, not a captive one.
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Father Johnson
Justin,
Unlike many others here, I truly appreciate your thoughtful response.
I understand where you are coming from, and you make valid points about boundaries and consent. But my main point throughout all of this hasn't been about excusing her mistake—it’s about how we treat a sister in Christ when she makes one. We all make mistakes; I know I certainly do. But when someone stumbles, our calling is to respond with love, patience, and guidance, rather than rash judgment or hostility.
You seem to be one of the few people in this thread who actually understands the importance of constructive dialogue. Why can’t we focus on giving helpful, restorative advice instead of acting like we have the right to hand down a final verdict on someone's character when we don't?
Thank you again for bringing a respectful, measured voice to this conversation.
Father Johnson
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Justin Adam Kalm
Thank you. I’m reminded of Jon Ronson’s book, “So You’ve Been Publicly Shamed,” which showed some of the damage that can come from the mass public shamings so easily facilitated in our digital age, and sustained by algorithms that reward rage. Whether deserved or not, the shaming tends to be way out of proportion to the alleged misbehavior, and offers no way to be rehabilitated. It also seems to do nothing to prevent recurrences of the sorts of behavior being shamed, making it the worst of both worlds, a punishment that is cruel and ineffectual.
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Father Johnson
I wholeheartedly thank you for bringing that up, because it highlights the fundamental question we should all be asking: where is the justice? You are the first person here who seems willing to look at the bigger picture with me, and I deeply admire that, my brother.
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Geoffrey C. Olive
Believe what FJ posts and you’ll believe anything! PS FJ, please learn something about punctuation!
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Father Johnson
once again, this this comment could be kept to yourself
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Geoffrey C. Olive
Why? Is there a good reason why your messages lack proper punctuation? Although this is not a text book, I would be very wary of trusting information that was lacking correct grammar and punctuation!
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Father Johnson
I didn't realize I was speaking to an English teacher. Unless you're grading my paper or fining me for my choice of words, stop correcting me—it’s completely unnecessary.
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Dr Dennis Chevalier, MDiv, PhD, DDvin, ULC honorary DD
Father, it's what they do when they realize their argument doesn't hold water. They start picking on things that have nothing to do with the initial remark.
Dr. D
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Father Johnson
yeah, I'm seeing that...what a shame
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Geoffrey C. Olive
Aha! So you can create a correctly punctuated message after all! Was that so difficult? Why not do that in the first place to avoid nitpicking criticisers like me! LOL! BTW I am Welsh, not English, and can only create someone’s “personality” and hidden emphasis from their written language in this method of communication! For example, using all capital letters is considered shouting! Lacking or incorrect grammar and spelling sends a message that is not always very complementary towards the sender’s education and/or understanding of the subject matter! So yes, I am grading the value of your paper which in turn tells me a lot about you and your points of view!
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Father Johnson
As a young priest, my calling is to heal contrite hearts and minister to people where they are—not to worry about pleasing internet critics who sit in judgment over punctuation.
You admitted yourself that you are grading a paper to make assumptions about me. But real ministry looks past outer details to see what is in a person's heart. I will continue to focus on grace, mercy, and supporting young clergy, regardless of how you choose to grade my writing.
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Geoffrey C. Olive
Lack of punctuation is indicative of a lack of communication knowledge!
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Keith D
Fr Johnson,
Right attitude. Now apply it to standing up amid a csptivecaudience and preaching.
Exact.same.annoyance.
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Father Johnson
instead of trying to correct someone that has more experience than you, perhaps master something that is called pastoral care i think that is something you and this other need to take a class in or two
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Keith D
Yet another grandstand on 'pastoral care.' An appeal to authority fallacy, too. ('More experience.' You have no clue what is my experience. Nor I yours.)
Philosophy first teaches thinking and logic, getting fallacies out of your thinking and seeing them in others' commentary. This is not like playing grammar nazi. I'm criticizing your thinking, your mind and your heart. Tge substance, not the form of your presentation.
Your heart should tell you that captives should not be assailed as she assailed them. That is exceedingly basic heart orientation.
And no one should gloat about having a captive audience! That's what set me off about her. Her heart is vile. And you're sympathetic. Wow. Know thyself!
Then maybe you can care in a pastoral way. Then maybe, if you're still inclined, you can trot out that phrase in a way that doesn't lose its meaning before the words are formed.
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Father Johnson
Keith D,
You want to challenge me?
It seems to me that you can't even offer sympathy, and you reprimand others for doing so. Whether you like it or not, I stand by what I said to you last.
If you call yourself ordained in a denomination, most clergy who preside over a church or institution have some kind of ethics behind providing care, love, humility, grace, and soft-but-firm mentorship.
Just because you would rather kick this person while she is down instead of offering some form of sympathy while providing next steps on how to overcome this and avoid repeating her mistakes, that does not mean I am wrong. It means you are the one who needs to work on yourself.
I'm not sure how many times I have to say this to others on this thread, but I did not endorse her when she got on that plane and preached (or as someone on this post said, "pontificated"—love that wording, by the way, being that I'm Catholic).
But does that mean I should treat her harshly? No. Why? Because that's not how I would want to be treated if that were me.
So don't try to take a jab at me just because you have different views, because doing so only contradicts the very preaching you have done here.
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Patricia Ann Gross
Fr. Johnson,
Thank you for giving us her "rear-view mirror" version of how she is trying to justify what she did. It is only intensifying that she is grasping for the preverbial straw, to garner good graces from everyone she inconvenienced. I guess we'll never know whether there was some object temporarily in the path of the plane that she saved it from colliding with or some person on the plane she saved from being in a car accident due to the delay. Perhaps we need a time machine to figure it all out. For lack of any "real" justification, she had to revert to something that could never be proven one way or another.
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Father Johnson
Patricia,
Sarcasm aside, no one is trying to rewrite what happened or claim divine intervention for a flight delay.
She made an error in judgment—plain and simple. The question for clergy and mature believers isn't whether she was wrong in her timing, but whether we respond with instruction and grace or endless cynicism. I choose to offer guidance so she can learn from this and grow.
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Patricia Ann Gross
Fr. Johnson,
Your "I stand by her" comment contradicts this. How do you expect to get through to her? Did you explain to her that her conduct was reprehensable? How did she respond? My guess, if you even confronted her behavior, is that she clapped back, or gave some half-a$$ed apology.
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Father Johnson
As I mentioned in my previous comments, I know her personally. When we spoke, there was no need for her to apologize to me, nor was there any reason for a "clapback"—unlike many in this space, she understands that I am not against her.
As for the details of what was discussed, I choose to keep our conversation private. There was never an agreement or expectation that our private discussion would be aired on this platform.
Blessings,
Fr. Johnson
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Patricia Ann Gross
Fr. J,
I will end this discussion, as I don't want to infringe on any clergy ethics. I agree with your previous statement about responding with instruction and grace, as there are ways to approach this behavior with compassion. My hope and prayer is that she responded positively when you pointed out her "error in judgement" rather than deny it. There's no need to respond, per your previous desire to keep it private.
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Lester
"I offend and harass you! In the name of Jesus!"
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Sickening comnent.
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Patricia Ann Gross
All she is doing is looking for Instagram clicks and a lawsuit payday windfall. She should be charged with interfering with the safety of the flight and I don't see any lawsuit going anywhere. She admits that she "loves a captive audience," so she is not doing it for the evangelism, she's doing it for the attention. If she were as charismatic as she thinks she is, her audience would NOT have to be captive. What happens to her if she gets arrested for disorderly conduct and tries the same thing in a jail cell? Oops, she wouldn't have her phone to record it then, so no attention, so she would likely keep her mouth shut. (Sorry for the silly question).
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Father Johnson
I hear your opinion, but I completely disagree. She wasn't looking for a payday or attention—she saw people who needed hope during a frustrating delay and took an opportunity to share the Gospel.
As clergy, we are called to spread the Word regardless of whether the world finds it convenient. Honestly, I would have done the exact same thing: being bold in my faith, bold in my preaching, and making my presence and outreach known. Standing up for Jesus in public takes real courage. I stand with Whitney Lynn 100% in her mission, and I won't mock or condemn someone who is bold enough to put their faith on display.
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Gary
You are free to worship whoever and whenever you want. You do NOT have a right to impose that on others.
And as I am of a different faith tradition than yours, I would find your doing what this person did to be rude, disrespectful and obnoxious. Perhaps as a member of the clergy (not too mention a human being) you should think about your behavior that others percieve to be rude, disrespectful and obnoxious.
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Dr Dennis Chevalier, MDiv, PhD, DDvin, ULC honorary DD
Gary,
"You are free to worship whoever and whenever you want. You do NOT have a right to impose that on others."
Well, What do you think you're doing?
Dr. D
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Father Johnson
OOPPSS you got em there lol
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Male bovine fecal matter. She’s just a religious nut job looking for clicks.
If you stand with you can both ride the bus once you get on the no-fly list.
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Alexander Clarke
Oh horse feathers! People need to keep their religious beliefs to themselves unless asked to pontificate.
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Patricia Ann Gross
I would agree with you if the people who did NOT want to hear her pontificate had a place to escape to. Her audience was captive, and therefore she was forcing her perception and beliefs on people whether they wanted to hear it or not. Would you tie people down to beds and make them listen to your sermons too, if you were assigned/employed by a psych hospital? Most clergy ethics statements have rules about coersion, and those that don't follow them area defrocked. This was simply a nut case looking for attention or a payday (or both).
If you have the right to say something disrespectful to me, I have the right to disrupt what you are saying, inform you that you are being disrespectful and give you the chance to stop. If you don't stop, then things are bound to escalate, which was what she was doing.
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Geoffrey C. Olive
Father, I would have said exactly the same to you, pasta or not!
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Father Johnson
and you have been ignored, just like other say they don't want to preaching i don't want to hear complaining or negative feelings
blessings
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Dr Dennis Chevalier, MDiv, PhD, DDvin, ULC honorary DD
Amen father
Dr. D.
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Keith D
Father J,
That's not bold. Especially once there was a claim, a request, to be spared the lecture, it is diagnosably narcissistic.
As far as I can discern, she took annoyance of delay to a level of annoyance far beyond.
Her then defiance just kept escalating the tension.
I'll bet not one person was comforted by her words especially when she turned them all captive.
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Father Johnson
At this point, you're just giving the same mundane comment as everyone else, and it is not effective at this point. It's about what is in her heart. She was on her way to give a sermon—and being that I know this young woman, even though we are not far in age, she was glad and grateful to be giving a sermon because it's not every day that we (between us both) can even give a sermon for a church or chapel.
At this point, I don't think any of you are clergy, because this whole thing is lacking pastoral care, which is vital to this calling of service. None of you can even show grace and mercy as we should have done.
One thing I hear my brother in the priesthood say as well as pledge: "We are sent to heal the contrite hearts," meaning we help them, not further break them down like others are doing.
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Keith D
Fr Johnson,
"Mundane" and "not clergy"... what am I supposed to do here? Cower at your ... ... superiority? 🤣
You advocate imposing your need (her need) to preachify as legitimate, and the multiple others' needs not to be bothered as inapplicable. No, I don't buy that 'God said.' It's a parasitical energy that takes advantage of others' disadvantage to get off on preachifying....or any other domineering nonsense.
A genuine Divinity would comfort without imposing. Would let energy flow that lightens everyone and serves as a beacon for the curious. ...without driving any sense of ego-gratifying 'preaching at.'
Perhaps some want to tear her down. I don't. I want her (and you) to learn and move into a genuine sovereignty of spirit, that has no need to bend everyone else. ...or anyone else.
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Father Johnson
Keith, this is my final comment to you.
After doing some deep, heavy thinking and prayer, I find that your actions and words directly contradict what you claim to stand for. You called me out on several things, yet you fail to practice the very principles you tried to lecture me about. That is the definition of hypocrisy.
You speak as though you are a minister who knows best, masking insults behind a persona of "tough love"—when there is no love in it at all. You accuse me of being domineering and mockingly ask if you should "cower at my superiority," yet you are the one using hostility, insults, and crude language to force your point on others.
Instead of comparing yourself to a fictional character like "Pale Rider," why not compare yourself to Jesus? A "tough guy" persona online easily breaks down when placed next to the Gospel.
I don't know what kind of ministry you claim, but I strongly encourage you to reflect on whether your approach aligns with God’s teachings. I would even suggest taking a course in pastoral care so you are better equipped to handle situations like this in the future with true grace and maturity.
In 2 Timothy, Scripture clearly defines the standard for clergy:
"And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Opponents must be gently instructed..."
You have not put that into practice here.
Despite everything, I wish you the best in hopes that you grow for the betterment of yourself and those you serve. May the Almighty Father bless you and keep you.
Father Johnson
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Dr Dennis Chevalier, MDiv, PhD, DDvin, ULC honorary DD
Father, Keith is a bully. He is doing what bullies do.
Dr. D
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Keith D
FR Johnson
OMG. Another 'God said.' You appear to suppose you're the only one who connects to the Divine... but seriously, if 'God said' that shoving things down others' throats is a goid thing, check it! You're talking to something other than the Monad.
What did Jesus do with the moneychangers? Do you think he was kind and gentle to his opposition? Get real. Do you prefer THAT model, being Jesus instead of Pale Rider? It's really the same, isn't it? What do you think the whip was for? How do you suppose the moneychangers 'felt' when he was done? D'ya think Paul would approve, after the Timothy quote??
😂
And 'Dr' Knight ('Chevalier'). That's rich. No, I'm no bully, but I am plainspoken, not masking my disgust behind fake 'kind' words.
I take issue with those who make a captive audience. THAT is bullying. Any who support it join in that bullying. I'm a defender against such. And yes, defenders are often treated as the bad guy. Whatever.
Funny how it's always bullies, by any mask or not, who project that assessment onto me, onto any defender or enforcer of even the most beneficent rules, because I/we don't tolerate their bullying.
Knight: facts, points and logic. Your million post-name letters really don't mean anything if you still can't see yourself clearly.
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Justin Adam Kalm
You say "she saw people who needed hope during a frustrating day and took an opportunity to share the Gospel." And you say you would have "done the exact same thing." With all due respect, you and Whitney Lynn aren't seeing the whole picture. While it's certainly possible that some of the people on the plane appreciated the preaching, can you see how for others on the plane her preaching just added to any feelings of hopelessness and frustration they might have had?
There is a certain vein of Christianity that the threat of eternal hellfire is so dire that we must do everything in our power to save others, even if it causes their discomfort, suffering, or, in the case of assorted violent crusades, death. I honestly don't know how to reach such people and convince them that a little humility is warranted when we seek to express and impose beliefs that are based on unprovable assumptions. If anyone else has some suggestions, I'd love to hear them.
In Whitney Lynn's case, the challenge may be insurmountable, given the number of followers she would likely lose if she moderated her behavior and message. As Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
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Nicholas J Page
Not everyone wants to hear preaching on a plane or anywhere else keep your prayers to the church or at home.
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Justin Adam Kalm
And just in case anyone is unclear on the concept, that means your church and your home. We don't want people to appear in our homes at our bedsides and start preaching to us, please.
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Colleen McAllister
I am an Evangelical Born-again Christian. That sort of "captive preaching" makes ME crazy. I would not break into a sermon at every random spot. Jesus spoke when appropriate and in the spots designated for such oratory moments. This kind of spontaneous preaching serves no one but the speakers ego.
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David W. Dube
She did it for clicks on her failing social media. Watch and hear her hesitance after being asked nicely to "follow me". No respect, its all about her mental instability.
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Gary
When you are on an airplane, the flight crew (pilots) and cabin crew (flight attendants) are responsible for your safety and the safety of everyone on that airplane. Any behavior that is not normal is a potential safety issue as far as they are concerned. And under federal law, they have absolute authority to ask anyone to leave the plane.
If you want to pray, wonderful. That is between you and who you pray to. That is not for public spectacle on an airplane.
By preaching as this woman did, her behavior was deemed to be disruptive to the flight, and therefore a potential safety risk.
And as an additional note, the gate agents when you show your ticket to enter the jetway, have the legal authority to ban you from a flight if they have concerns about your behavior.
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Geoffrey C. Olive
Yes. I was a British Airways flight attendant in the 1960s and luckily never had any issues with unruly passengers. In those days people treated air travel as a privilege rather than just like getting on a bus or train! As Gary mentioned the flight crew had the legal authority to have an unruly passenger removed but that was rather unpractical mid flight! LOL!
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Geoffrey C. Olive
I would just shout, “Shut the f*** up and sit down!”
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James Richard Munro
Dear Olive. There is a time and place for everything. You shouting the F word is just as wrong as the lady preaching to a captive audience. Aren't you glad you just thought of saying that? Pastor Jim PS. Please tell me you're not clergy.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Nope, you have to get the message across to the religiously delusional. She needed to get kicked off. Zero tolerance. No-fly list for a year.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
James Richard Munro please stop your preaching.
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Geoffrey C. Olive
She obviously doesn’t understand a civil request to be quiet and sit down! Ignorance doesn’t deserve respect!
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Geoffrey C. Olive
Munro, I am not clergy because I don’t want to support and propagate something that doesn’t make common sense!
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Rev. Miche'al Yosef Dixon
In Louisiana prison i met a man that was serving 5 years for saying the "f" word to his wife in an AppleBe in Monroe, Louisiana. LA.RS 14:106 obscenity and its a sex offense and registration as sex offender treated as pedophile for life.
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Rev.Dr.Dennis Chevalier, Ph.D
Nope. Here is the actual penalty....
(3) Except as provided in Paragraph (5) of this Subsection, on a (((third or subsequent conviction)))), the offender shall be imprisoned with or without hard labor for not less than two years nor more than five years, and in addition may be fined not less than five thousand dollars nor more than ten thousand dollars.
https://legis.la.gov/Legis/Law.aspx?d=78258
So, 3 convictions can get you up to 5 years. He did much more than say the F word. Then again convicted criminals rarely say the real reason they're behind bars.
40 yrs as a L.E. officer tells me he did way more... If you know his real full name and date of birth, I can give you his full, real reason for being behind bars. And I'll post it here if you wish.
Dr. D
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Keith D
MY Dixon,
Wow. I suppose that what exactly he said coukd have bearing. Spoken as GC Olive expressed earlier, it makes zero sense. If it was like that, and I sat on the jury, I would say not guilty. It would be a case ending in jury nullification.
I suspect it was more like a real threat that your storyteller spoke, not a mere epithet.
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OMg - "The last days" bit again. Check this out (scroll down to chart):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events