What does the future hold for the LGBTQ patrons of businesses?
Last month, the Supreme Court ruled that a Christian web designer could legally refuse service to same-sex couples, in what critics have called a disastrous blow to LGBTQ rights in the United States.
The nation’s highest court ruled 6-3 in favor of Lorie Smith, a Christian web designer from Colorado who believes that marriage should only be between one man and one woman. Smith was never actually asked by a gay couple to design a wedding website; instead, she challenged the law preemptively, just in case.
Perhaps emboldened by the Court's decision, more business owners with anti-LGBTQ beliefs are now announcing their intentions not refuse service to LGBTQ customers.
Not Very Kosher
Among them is a Jewish bakery in New Jersey that made headlines after canceling two rainbow-colored cakes for a local synagogue’s Pride celebration.
West Orange Bake Shop co-owner Yitzy Mittel, an Orthodox Jew, had made similar cakes in years past. But he put his foot down on this most recent order, believing that celebrating the LGBTQ community is “antithetical to what we stand for” and “something which is against Torah.”
“I didn’t want to be making that cake,” he stated. He told the synagogue they’d have to go elsewhere for their cake this year.
Although the order was declined before the recent Supreme Court ruling, Mittel received immediate legal validation for his decision.
Despite his apparently legal justification, the backlash from his own community has been fierce. Local rabbis accused the cake shop of bigotry, and some West Orange locals have pledged not to support the shop in the future.
“I was comfortable drawing conclusions that meant that I was going to take my purchasing elsewhere. It seems clear that the bakery has made the decision that Pride is not something they want to support,” said Rabbi Julie Schwarzwald. “It’s their choice, it’s their legal right, and I can choose to spend my dollars wherever I want.”
The Anti-Pronoun Salon
Following in those footsteps, a hair salon in Michigan recently announced they would not serve LGBTQ customers – or, apparently, anyone who uses pronouns.
In a now-deleted Facebook post, Studio 8 Hair Lab owner Christine Geiger made her beliefs clear.
“If a human identifies as anything other than a man/woman please seek services at a local pet groomer. You are not welcome at this salon. Period,” she wrote. “This is America; free speech. This small business has the right to refuse services. We are not bound to any oaths… regarding discrimination.”
Shortly after the post gained traction online, it was deleted, and the business’s Instagram page, which declares that it “does not cater to woke ideologies,” was set to private.
In a post on the ‘Overheard in Traverse City’ Facebook group, Geiger explained her anti-LGBTQ philosophy further, saying that she is “not willing to play the pronoun game or cater to requests outside of what I perceive as normal,” and encouraged any pronoun-using potential clients to patronize a different salon.
Many residents of Traverse City called her out on that page. “Imagine someone already struggling with how they are feeling and being on the edge and then reading that they should go to a dog groomer?! How awful!” wrote one.
“Such vile behavior,” said another. “May karma be their fate.”
With the recent Supreme Court ruling seemingly granting businesses the legal right to discriminate against LGBTQ clientele, many worry that this is just the beginning.
What do you think? Should religious wedding vendors have the right to discriminate against LGBTQ couples? What about non-wedding businesses?
What does this mean for the future of LGBTQ rights in America?
195 comments
-
Michael Holland
Money is money, people need to get over themselves! And yes LGBTQ should be able to turn away customers, turn about is fair play!
-
Geoffrey C. Olive
Particularly christians and other religious bigots!
-
Theodore Conrad Desmarais
True
-
-
-
Michael Hunt
Sadly this is to be expected after the SCOTUS ruling. What a massive step backwards we have taken towards ending discrimination.
-
Russel A. Kester
I recently watched some YouTube channel talking about gays in Germany during the rise of Hitler and the Nazis. If I understood it correctly, they went after gay men first and after getting no pushback then proceeded to go after other groups. It doesn't feel very good to think I just might be the human equivalent to the proverbial cannery in a cage.
-
Joe Stutler
Bigots who blame their deity for their bigotry are a big part of what's wrong with America.
-
Ahmed Abduljabar Al-Hujazi
I think you can include the entire world on that score. Gays were among those persecuted and murdered by the Nazis.
-
Sherrell K Zitting
Bi-go-try, hmmm.
-
-
Charlene Bisordi
The U.S. didn’t allow this discrimination against Black Americans, why are LGBTQ Americans being treated differently?
-
Colleen McAllister
Oh but they did. I am old enough to remember whites only signs
-
Rev. MichaelRS
Because being black is not pr0scribed in the Bible.
And it's not generalized services that are being refused it is specific services celebrating any aspect of the alphabet community.
For example, Baker in the Colorado Baker case with not refusing to bake gay people a birthday cake or any of that sort you just didn't want to participate in the sacrament of gay marriage which is against his faith
-
Deborah Lynn Strafuss
But the ruling applies to birthday cakes and anything else......
-
Amy Varela
If baking and selling a cake is participating in a marriage then producing and selling a gun is participating in a murder.
-
Rev. MichaelRS
I see you are not strong on the legal theory behind the ruling so let me help you.
If the baker had baked a cake that was sitting in his display case and a gay couple came in and saw the cake and wanted to buy it for their wedding, the baker in good conscience could sell it to them because he did not design and bake the cake for the express purpose of a same-sex wedding.
So if the same sex couple comes in and buys the generic wedding cake and they add their two grooms or two brides to the top that has nothing to do with the baker or his faith practices.
Likewise a gun manufacturer is NOT guilty of murder if they did not purposely make a gun to give to the criminal to go murder somebody.
They are no more guilty of participating in a murder than would be the makers of baseball bats or axes or tire irons or any number of other items that are manufactured and offered to sell to the general public but have been misused to murder people.
-
-
-
-
Colleen McAllister
Call it what you will. Discrimination and bigotry is still discrimination and bigotry no matter what you try to hide it behind.
-
Mark Fay
you watch CNN and vote democrat, don't you? Disagreeing with someones lifestyle and not wanting to have any part of it is not bigotry it is having the right to a personal belief... Do you support minor attracted people and child molesting as well? because that's where this is going, as is evident by current events.
-
Amy Varela
If I had the only grocery store for 50 miles and I hung up a sign that said No Christians Allowed, what do you think would happen? I would have the legal right to refuse service to christians because I do not agree with their lifestyle and I do not want any part of their bigotry.
And Mark, you seem to be kind of in the dark about things, but the biggest perpetrators of child molestation are straight men, especially straight religious men. Maybe stop being ignorant.
Believe whatever nonsense you want to, but 1. your freedom ends where mine begins, and 2. your religion prohibits does not prohibit me from doing anything. It prohibits you.
-
-
-
David Messenger
Well, I guess LGBTQ people have the same rights as to whether or not they choose to serve a straight person in their establishment
-
Rev. Mike Eggleston
I guess we all have the right to refuse to serve Christian bigots.
-
David Messenger
Comment removed by user.
-
James Richard Norby
Comment removed by user.
-
-
Douglas Robert Spindler
Sad the REAL STORY IS NOT BEING TOLD HERE - THIS IS A CASE OF FRAUD A Christian groups headed by Lori Smith provided FALSE evidence and fabricated the entire case in their presentation to the Supreme Court. They duped the court into making a ruling based on lies and deceived the court.
BEFORE COMMENTING ON THIS CASE - SEE HOW THE CHRISTIANS and Lori Smith got the court to make a ruling based on lies. https://youtu.be/oHXTxg8Lnk0
-
Rev. MichaelRS
To believe that you would have to believe that the Supreme Court is that dumb and there was nobody on the other side arguing for the alphabet people and exposing the "lies" before the Court ruled.
-
Douglas Robert Spindler
@ Rev. MichaelRS I take this to mean you are so lazy and/or blinded by religion you can’t fact check the claim even when given to you. It’s lies and hateful statements made by Christian’s like you that is causing young people top hate and distrust Christians today. They want nothing to do with people how lie and spread hate.
-
Rev. MichaelRS
Particular individuals make little to no difference.
The the general point here is that the forces of darkness (you can call it the devil or demons or a banana if you want to) don't like to have their sin called out and rejected.
As a result the young people that are misguided under such influences have hardened hearts against truth and light and instead would rather wallow in hedonistic sin and personal degradation.
What's causing young people to hate and distrust Christians is the sinful information they are indoctrinated with by those that have succumbed to the Father of lies before them is outlined in John 8:44.
But as Matthew 18:6-9 tells us, a special fate awaits those that lead young people astray as is happening today.
-
Deborah Lynn Strafuss
Oh Michael - I am so sad for you.
-
Donald R. Wooster
Deborah, you're not sad for Michael. At all. You're sad, because you KNOW he's correct in what he stated. At least be honest, if not with him, then yourself.
-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Conservatives always imagine themselves the voice of everyone and everything.
Today's conservatives are unable to appreciate anybody else's view but their own.
-
-
Rev. MichaelRS
There's nothing to feel sad about. I'm right with the Lord according to scripture.
Doesn't mean I'm perfect and do not sin, but at least I don't do it on purpose or make said sin part of my lifestyle.
-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Love thy neighbor.
-
Rev. MichaelRS
Yes, love your neighbor,
but there's nothing that says you have to love your neighbor's sin by encouraging it or pretending it does not exist or participating in it.
-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
I'm sorry, does it say love thy bigotry? Love thy prejudice? Love thy condemnation?
Looks like the 'forces of darkness' already won.
-
Rev. MichaelRS
The Bible, or let's just talk the New Testament, is not any one scripture verse. When Jesus said he was giving us a new commandment he didn't say all the others were void, he meant in addition to.
If you will read further books in the scriptures you'll find that authors were constantly calling out the sinful way of their fellow Christians and urging them to repent from it.
But they were not doing so from a position of self-importance or assumed perfection of themselves.
As just one example of this I urge you to read Romans chapter 1, most particular starting with verse 18.
As Servants of God it is Our obligation to recognize sin within ourselves and try correct it to keep ourselves on the right path and also to recognize others and help them back on the correct path when they have lost.
It is not required that we come from a position of perfection in order to do this.
-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
I get it.
I can see you are a kind person, who cares about others, and wants to do the right thing.
But there is this oooold book that tells you to dislike certain people, and it also says that it is the absolute truth and if anybody tries to tell you different they are trying to entice you into eternal torture.
So, as much as you want to be kind and open-minded and loving to others, your hands are tied, because the book says different.
With luck we can be prejudiced, bigoted, and oppressive for another 2000 years - maybe even longer! One can hope, can't one.
-
Rev. MichaelRS
You obviously do NOT get it.
The scriptures do NOT tell us to dislike, or hate, anyone.
But neither does it tell us to be blind to or tolerant or accepting of what is clearly defined as wrong doing. AKA "sin".
And the "right thing" in this case is try to encourage those people to repent and come back to a point where God is directing their life instead of their own internal desires and lust.
And certainly to put up a wall to where they are not enticing children down that same dark path.
-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Gotta hate the gays, but don't get between a fundamentalist and his BBQ pork ribs.
SO dishonest.
-
Minister Raymond Butterworth
Rev m.rs
I know this is an old post but I hope you're still here. You put things ina most true and understandable way. Im saddened deeply by the attitude people have toward Jesus. The end is near, maybe not in my life but not to far off.
Thank you
-
Rev. MichaelRS
Thank you, but I feel it's nothing remarkable. The scriptures are pretty straightforward.
Plus, it's like I have said in other posts; if I'm "off" somewhat in my understanding of scriptures, then I am the one that will be chastised after death.
Beyond that if i'm totally wrong, because there is no God or Jesus or anything else, as some other "ministers", though I don't know of what, here have said. Then when I die I will never know it for there will be nothingness.
But if others are wrong, in both their understanding of scriptures and/or the existence of God and what is required for salvation... well, eternity is a long time to have to think about and regret it.
May the Lord bless you and keep you.
-
-
-
Amy Varela
There is no truth or light in religion. Truth is based on facts and evidence, and there is none of either for the existence of any of the hundreds of gods that have been worshiped by millions of people for thousands of years. No evidence at all.
You're worshiping a character in a collections of myths and fairy tales.
-
Russel A. Kester
Amy, a bit harsh against the affirmative, universal term religion. There can be truth in religion because not all truth is based on facts. The moral of a story can tell truths about values and character for example. A person can express a feeling which is a truth but not a scientific fact that can be measured by anyone but the speaker. Religion can promote these kinds of truths.
-
-
-
-
-
-
Wallace da Silva Santiago
I believe that gays, lesbians and the like They are people who pay their taxes love and are loved They are sinners like everyone else because it is written (...all have sinned and are far from the glory of God...)
They deserve respect, live in peace, love and be loved, and deserve salvation in Jesus Christ by grace (because only by grace are we saved because God looked down on the earth and found none righteous)
As far as being gay or lesbian is wrong or a sin, only God is sovereign in judging... I am a sinner like any other, full of defects, and I ask God for mercy on me and my family in these very violent times...
-
Colleen McAllister
Amen
-
Lionheart
You've been reading too many books of fiction. Try reading the Harry Potter books, if you truly enjoy believing fiction, there is less infanticide, and it's not as bloodthirsty. The stories are great to believe, if that's what you really want to do.
🦁♥️
-
-
James Riggle-Johnson
Let me act with shock and surprise although I’ll admit I thought it would take longer. Some people will argue this isn’t discrimination, they have the right to refuse service to anyone, but let me ask you this. Would they get away with it if they said no Jews aloud? The Supreme Court ruled in one week that universities could no longer use race to consider applicants, and then said it’s okay to hang a sign that says no gays aloud.
Soon it will be you can’t work here because you are gay. You can’t live here because you are trans. We will soon be back 50 years when people were denying employment or housing based on the persons LGBT status. The supreme court is waiting for the right case to come along to reverse same sex marriage. They won’t hesitate to do it. Two of them have already said as much. I don’t recognize our country anymore.
-
Warren Calvin Wall
So, as long as the Jews and gays stay quiet it's ok? What about Muslims? Do they have to be quiet too? Speaking of Muslims, why aren't they being vilified by LGBTQIWXYZ+++++? Lets ask their views on being required to cater to LGBTQIWXYZ+++++ patrons. Also, I take great offense at the LGBTQIWXYZ+++++ movement being compared to the Black American's civil rights plight. They are most assuredly not the same! When pride marches are assaulted with water cannons and police beating them to death in the streets with riot batons, hit me up.
-
Mary Theresa Usrey
What exactly is lgbtqiwxyz? And yes discrimination is discrimination whether black or gay. Hate is hate. Sounds like you yourself are a bully. Making fun of people unlike yourself makes you a bully. Now I ask you; how does that fit into your Christian beliefs? Love is love. Pure and simple. The book of laws in the Bible was written by man not God. God wrote 10 commandments. None of them aimed at being gay. The Jesus said Love another and forgive one another. Again no mention of being gay. The same chapter on homosexuality also says women should be shunned during menstration, people shouldn’t eat shellfish or animals with cloven feet. What about that? So we can just choose our religion a la carte Good to know. Sounds hypocritical to me though.
-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Gotta hate the gays, but don't get between a fundamentalist and his BBQ pork ribs.
-
-
Russel A. Kester
Warren, the LGB community didn't have to worry about police with water cannons because there were plenty of straight a**holes already killing us across the nation. We didn't need to congrats in a march either because they sought us out wherever they could find us. And blacks of that era weren't sent to prison legally just for being black, but gays were, mostly or almost exclusively men. So, not during the time your to which you refer, it wasn't the same, gays didn't have recourse to the protections and rights blacks did. Most of the nation saw what some extremely ignorant and abusive d*cks did to blacks. It took the nation awhile longer to see it the same way for gays.
-
James Riggle-Johnson
You missed the White riot in ’79 when police marched into the Castro district of San Francisco, pulled gay men out into the streets and beat them. What is wrong with you. We can hide easier than black people, but the struggle is the same. When our secret was out we were arrested, fired from jobs, and evicted from our homes. Don’t preach to me when you’ve missed the parts of the bible that say do not judge others. That isn’t your job, it’s whatever God you worship.
-
-
-
Rev. MichaelRS
All this is a direct reaction to the alphabet and gender identity activist trying to push all that stuff down mainstream America's throat when they don't care for it at all.
The vast majority of Americans are tolerant and operate on a live and let live philosophy. But this stuff now about going after the children on so many levels and basically telling people if you're not flying up pride flag you must be a bigot who wants to see all alphabet people dead is ridiculous.
People are just tired of it and they are starting to fight back.
So yeah, vote with your dollars. It's very effective as the Bud Light, Target and other people have found out.
Lastly, It is not the idea of two genders that is a social construct. For thousands of years of human history there have only been two genders in fact and in the lexicon of human language.
What IS the social construct is this idea in recent years that there is more than two and in fact probably dozens. It's a weird mental illness for people that are, for whatever reason, unsettled in their own minds.
-
Nathaniel Robert Hunt
Vedism/Hinduism and many of the old Native Faiths recognized "the 3rd gender" that covered the whole spectrum gays, bi, ace, trans . So its our religious right to welcome these people and preform marriages for them no matter how much christians scream about it. On a personal note I refuse service and help to all trump christians and magas now.
-
Rev. MichaelRS
Well you're missing the nuance of the whole situation.
It is NOT generalized services that are being reconfused to people of the alphabet community, it is those services which would constitute a celebration of some aspect which is proscribed in the Bible.
For example, in the famous Colorado Baker case, the baker did not refuse to serve gay people he refused to serve them in a capacity that help celebrate same-sex marriage.
If you were a gay person who wanted a birthday cake without the gay symbolism, he would happily do it for you
However your refusal to service Trump supporters and such is not based on any historical religious understanding or belief
-
Nathaniel Robert Hunt
" refusal to service Trump supporters and such is not based on any historical religious understanding or belief" We are a private church ran store and can do as we see fit , since maga's tend to hate the charity work with the homeless we do , we can refuse them
-
Rev. MichaelRS
Well, that's kind of a silly, moot point.
I really don't know anything about your church, however, based on your statements here, I'm pretty sure that conservatives, be they MAGA people or not, are not going to be around your church or it's store for you to have the opportunity to refuse them service. Unless they somehow wander in accidentally.
But I still think you're confusing hating the sin and not acting in support of it, versus loving the sinner.
-
Nathaniel Robert Hunt
We are not Christians and don't have a concept of "sin" so that phrase has no power to us
-
Minister Raymond Butterworth
The power will be displayed at the end of this life and before the next, whether or not you believe.
-
Nathaniel Robert Hunt
Likewise, I never got anything praying to Jesus or the biblical God, I prayed to older Gods and got responses
-
Minister Raymond Butterworth
One does not pray to Jesus just to get something. One prays for health, for the wellbeing of others, maybe even for rain. Prayer is also for giving thanks for what we have and for the good things that happen to us in life. And it is good for just talking to God, as a friend and confidant. We should use prayer for all of this, praying every day multiple times. One can't just pray for a lamborghini for instance, and really expect to get it. God knows our hearts and the power of our prayers are dependent on our faith. God also recognizes those who are devout in their prayers, the more you pray to God, the more potent your prayers will become,as long as your heart is in the right place and your faith is strong.
One of the 🔟 commandments; thou shall have no other Gods before me.
Perhaps your faith in God is shaky. I say this because you referenced praying to OTHER gods. There are none older.
I will pray for you to gain a greater understanding of God, and his teachings.
-
Nathaniel Robert Hunt
I tried talking to "God" it was like no one was there, nothing not even a feeling, tried that for years, then when I turned to other Gods, I got a feeling and once I dropped all the Christian baggage my life improved
-
Minister Raymond Butterworth
Enjoy life on earth to the fullest.
-
-
Deborah A Boyle
Based on your reply we should hate the sins of everyone, as we all sin. I hate your sin of judgement towards others. Will you refrain from judgement or is this part of your lifestyle? Looks as though it is. You are no better or worse than any sinner. Get a grip and follow your Christian values of love.
-
Rev. MichaelRS
Christians are not required to be blindly loving while ignoring habitual, overt sin.
Because if we are not able to judge what is sin how are we ever able to avoid it within ourselves and to repent from it much less help lead others out of it?
But it's not a matter of being perfect and it's not a matter of never sinning. It's a matter of the conscious choices you make to wallow in that sin or not.
And what Jesus talking about in Matthew 7:2-5 is not judging or calling out sin period. It's about doing so while you are wallowing in it yourself.
-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Funny bigotry isn't a sin. Funny [prejudice isn't a sin. Funny dogmatic thinking isn't a sin.
Moses wasn't very thorough, he forgot the 11th commandment: "All knowledge is static, all morality authoritarian and irrational."
-
-
-
Rev. Miche'al Yosef Dixon
What I find interesting 🤔 is that in all this Trump and Biden are singled out and attacked like they are the sole cause when this issue has been around openly since at least the 1960s. Those two puppet clowns are getting all this free campaign attention and other candidates that would actually give a hoot about the issue are sweep under the rug. If this is still "land of the Free" then business owners have the right to be bigoted twats and refuse service and lose money. With shoe on other foot Disney just broke our contract (technically it was with Lucasfilms before the buyout) for a book deal because my characters aren't LGBTQ+ enough. (I didn't make Leia openly lesbian.) Now, should I get my panties in a bunch over it? or except that's their business choice? Maybe I should sue them for discrimination that I'm a white married to a woman heterosexual christian male. 6-3 Supreme Court Justices should back it according to this ruling. And by the way; how would a salon employee know someone is LGBTQ+? unless they're displaying it and shoving it in their face. See, that's where they making no sense with their arguments. They say they oppressed yet late 60s-90s they were all in media entertainment some even leads. Women, Blacks and LGBTQ+$ had shows with them front and center; Rhoda, Mary Tyler Moore, Laverne and Shirley; Jeffersons, Good Times, Webster, ; Allie McBeal, Cagney and Lacey, two men and a baby, Anything but Love, Hail to the Chief (gay president). In the 1930s even two serials; Byng Ho! & Queue For Song. But type in on Googlie and you only get a list back to 2006 and claim nothing before that.
-
Amber Fry
Long before the 60s. It just became a notable legal specific matter around then.
-
-
-
-
Rev. Miche'al Yosef Dixon
You missing the point. If Marriage is a "religious exercise therein, then the Government has not a shadow of right to interfere" -James Madison on polygamy to Congress 1812. This is a church matter not government matter. Regardless Our believe on the matter if Religion is involved the United States government has no jurisdiction in the matter.
-
Amber Fry
If it were just a church matter then the state wouldn't need to issue licenses. It's both. It gives the right of the spouse to claim anything should one of the two die, and it gives the state jurisdiction to help deal with the legal side of belongings should a divorce occur. It also helps to keep track of taxes in households. The religious part is to bless the marriage and any children as well as to support it within the religious community.
-
-
-
Amber Fry
No, it's about people not just letting others live their lives. It's about demanding everyone else fit into a very specific, tiny little Christian Nationalist box. As in any religion the goal should be to live your life as you see fit in accordance to your own beliefs and letting others do the same as long as nobody is getting physically forced into things or harmed. You don't have to like who or what they are. That's your prerogative. You are not allowed to force them to live by your beliefs. That's a serious and severe overreach, both by religion and by constitution.
-
Rev. MichaelRS
Absolutely right. Let them live their lives as they want to.
At the same time.... Let me and mine live our lives and stop trying to force gender ideology or sex ideology on us.
If I had still had kids in elementary school I'd be ****ed upset to find out they were handed a pride flag and marched through rainbow decorated hallways in a mini Pride parade.
And stop having biological men, who are basically cosplaying at being female, ruin the sports experience for high school and college young women.
Everything that is happening now on the right is a direct reaction to the extremism over this issue on the left. MOST people in America are very tolerant and do have a live and let live philosophy, but the left has gone too far and now they're seeing the reaction to that
-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Yes! Everything happening on the right IS the result of the propaganda campaign designed to rile the conservative voters into catapulting conservative politicians into power.
And once they are there, sure, they'll take rights away from the LGBTQ - and from you too - but they won't tell you about that, so you'll be none the wiser.
-
-
-
-
Brien
If your going to open business in public to service the public, then shut up and do your job. You may still have your opinions. Now, if you're involved with the rainbow community, stop supporting business that hate you. There are PLENTY of others that don't hate you. But small towns don't have a lot of business... ridiculous. Small towns don't have a lot of anything, the answer is... MOVE. There are plenty of towns that will welcome you. You cannot force people to work for you, used to call that slavery. If you want to be free to live and believe as you wish, YOU MUST ALLOW OTHERS THE SAME RIGHT. The idea of a business refusing money is stupid, and will lead to them shutting down. Word of mouth is very powerful. But this is a dumb conflict that doesn't need to exist.
-
Nicholas J Page
Discrimination against the LGBTQ community. What people are they are leave them alone.
-
Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
I visited West Virginia (Mingo County) about 40 years ago, and tried to enter, what appeared to be, an open to the public tavern.
A local female had invited me to join her there
As I entered (I’m a white guy) what I assumed to be an employee of this tavern, asked me for my membership card; to which I responded “I’m just visiting” so how do I become a member?.
To which this employee responded “as a white guy you’re eligible to become a member, so give me $5.00 and you’ll become a member.
This was (is) West Virginia, which separated from Virginia, over the side Virginia was taking, during the war of Northern Aggression (AKA, the Civil War) West Virginia strayed loyal to the USA, while Virginia wanted to continue to practice slavery.
Bottom line: Businesses who won’t serve all of the public — should become private clubs, that aren’t open to the general public.
And, that’s that.
-
Pamela Kay Waters
Any business has the right to refuse service to anyone. So stop screaming discrimination. It's been this way for years
-
Michael Hunt
So I suppose "Whites only" signs in storefronts is okay then?
-
Pamela Kay Waters
What if the signswere flipped. NO WHITES ALLOWED. NO NATIVE AMERICANS ETC. It will never end
-
-
-
Matthew Mastrogiovanni
When a business denies a customer, they lose a customer. When a host of people boycott a business, the business closes.
-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
The Lorie Smith SCOTUS decision is a bigoted right-wing power grab - and it is going to hurt conservatives most.
dis·crim·i·na·tion [dəˌskriməˈnāSHən] NOUN the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of ethnicity, age, sex, or disability:
The Lorie Smith SCOTUS decision is by definition prejudicial and unjust, and absolutely justifies boycotts from the LGBTQ community and all people of legitimate empathic morality.
Look at the smirk on the Picture of Lorie Smith. She is SO pleased with herself now that she has won the 'legal right' to look down on other people - and that is exactly what this is really about, is the all the small-minded bigots who just can't stand the thought that the entire country isn't their own personal safe space where they can spit on anybody who makes different life choices than they do.
-
Daniel Ginther
You must have a mental disorder. There are 2 sexes : Heterosexual and Homosexual..And 95% of the entire world population is Heterosexual and we are sick of your crap !
You don't like America, please move to France.
-
Douglas Robert Spindler
@ Daniel Ginther You are so wrong. For nearly 200 years we have know there are many more that 2 sexes. Currently we know of 27 sexes in humans. Out of curiosity what is your definition of a women and a man?
-
Russel A. Kester
Daniel, dude, I believe Kenneth is straight. And don't attack him personally because that isn't cool. But I am gay, and really don't care that you are tired of civil rights for everyone. And if you don't like that, well, I don't care about that either.
-
Theodore Conrad Desmarais
Physical Dimension: Male / Female = eggs and sperm, period Mental Dimension: Gender: cultural identity: ie: roles, occupations, make up, etc spectrum of lmale to female behaviors etc. in short gender is completely variable native american often had four designations . Spiritual Dimension : NO sex or gender at all , all is spirit, genderless, one can reincarnate as either physical sex.
-
Russel A. Kester
Theodore, I had to really think about your post to determine why I found myself not quite agreeing. I think it's because our souls (spirits) just might have gender preferences. Those who've researched and written about this have indicated that sould might incarnate as a particular sex bodily as much as 70% of the time of not higher. And it seems our spirit guides generally present themselves to us as a male or female whichever they prefer. If I'm correct, this would certainly explain gender dysphoria as a female soul incarnating into a male body or vice-versa.
-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Spirit, by definition, is: "The vital animating essence of something."
Spirit is not about physicality, it is about essence. It is not physical, it is metaphysical - literally, "Beyond the physical".
Does this mean there is a spirit of sexuality? Absolutely! Does this mean there is a spirit beyond sexuality? Absolutely!
People are always trying to shoehorn souls and spirituality into a physical context, but it isn't. It's literally beyond the physical. It's not WHAT you're looking at, it's HOW you're looking at it.
-
-
-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
DG...
https://www.nature.com/articles/518288a
-
-
-
Rev Ned
Then businesses should be allowed to refuse service to Trumpanzees or anyone wearing MAGAt stuff.
-
Theodore Conrad Desmarais
True
-
-
Adrian Wills
Does anyone think lies are from Jesus? These people are not following the examples set by Christ. Therefore; NOT Christian!
-
Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Man oh man. I wish I owned a business, so that I could turn away Christians.
-
Rev. MichaelRS
In the US you could, IF your religious faith had a historical prohibitions against Christianity AND what the Christians were asking you to do was participate in their religion through your business.
That is at the meat of the decision. NOT just that the person does not like gay people
-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Do you actually believe yourself?
-
Rev. MichaelRS
I believe the word of God over the amoral hedonists dancing nearly naked in the street performing faux sex acts in public in "celebration" of their sexuality.
-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
So you are offended by joy and human bodies.
How very 'Garden of Eden' of you.
-
Rev. MichaelRS
When that joy is from a source in direct and active opposition to the word of God, yes I am against it.
-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
The 'word of God' that's in that old book you have no choice but to believe, because it tells you to.
But I don't actually believe that. I know what I see - and what I see is that there is a certain mentality that finds looking down on other people and spitting on other people incredibly validating and fulfilling.
Some people are saying, "I love a person, and I want to marry that person" and you reply that you will do everything in your power to deny that union, because you are BETTER than them, and you KNOW better than them, and through your Divine Busybody powers will decide what they can or cannot do with THEIR lives, because you DO NOT APPROVE of them and their life choices.
These are the choices YOU make.
-
Rev. MichaelRS
Nope, none of that is my position at all.
How others approach the subject is their business. As far as I'm concerned, in a secular world, love who you want, marry who you want go to swinger parties if you want, sleep with 10,000 people a year if you want and so on and so forth.
Just don't pretend that it has anything to do with God, judeo-christian scriptures or Christianity.
And yes, not caring what their sexual orientation is (meaning they could be 110% straight), I absolutely look down and spit on individuals that are parading around nearly naked dancing lewdly and/or performing performing faux sex acts in public and those that try to corrupt children.
And you're right. That definitely is MY choice to feel contempt and revulsion for the people that do those things.
Other than that as 2 or 32 consenting ADULTS be as deviant or kinky as you want in the privacy of your own home. THAT is between you and God. But make a public spectacle of it, that's when it becomes the business of others.
-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Conservatives LOVE playing the "Save the children!" card - but in reality that doesn't really matter at all.
it's just a convenient justification for hate.
What conservatives REALLY want they betray every time.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2200169
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Rev Dr Matthew Cramer
First they can try but they wont do it bc They can get sued if they LGBTQ+ we have rights as well and we take them very seriously
-
Lionheart
Of course LGBTQ people have rights. They have the right to try and find another cake maker that will serve their needs. They also have the right to pick up a cookbook and learn how to make their own cakes……plus…wash dishes, scrub floors, do the ironing, learn how to knit, cook a meal, clean the toilets etc., just like my mother used to do while my father went to work to provide for us all working down the coal mine…….damaging his nails 💅🤭
🦁❤️
-
Douglas Robert Spindler
Our country is doomed. No one cares the highest court in our country was duped and told lies to promote a Christian is just one reason there is so much crime in our country.
-
Amber Fry
Not yet. Not if the majority make a point to seriously vet candidates and vote accordingly.
-
Douglas Robert Spindler
@Amber Fry. Are you aware of the group of Christians who duped the highest court in our country into hearing fake evidence and a made up individual to make a ruling in favor of Christians allowing them to discriminate and spread hate. https://youtu.be/oHXTxg8Lnk0
-
-
-
Julie Armstrong
Your Private business, Your Right. Restaurants ALL HAVE THE RIGHT TO REFUSE. What's the big deal go someplace else
-
Theodore Conrad Desmarais
True
-
-
Charles Wesley Fuller
every individual on this planet discriminates in one form or another.you are supposed to be free to do whatever it is that you want,as long as you don't physically harm someone or their property.I don't understand why very few people understand that.unless you are a corporation that has asked a government to be one(Walmart,Target,etc.),you are free(supposed to be,anyway) to sell or nor,serve or not anyone that you choose.and no,getting a sales tax certificate is not the same.if you don't like discrimination against certain people or things,then don't do it,just stop trying to tell everyone else that they can't.
-
Theodore Conrad Desmarais
Thumbs up, we need to define parameters.
-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Prejudice against people who have done no harm to anybody is itself a harm.
Why is that so hard to understand?
There is a certain mentality that just wants to look down on and spit on others. Should that be a right?
We need to look MUCH CLOSER at this issue.
-
-
Tom Herman
Bigotry and discrimination for ethnicity, gender, race, religion and sexual orientation is wrong. If this trend continues we will be back to the days of Jim Crow or women not being able to vote or own property. Women already do not have autonomy over their own bodies. I've seen some of the old "whites only" signs in the south. Disgusting that we did that to people in only the last century. As a society we are going backwards instead of forward. It is the quality of a person's character that counts.
-
Robin Anne Hannon
Tom we are on the same page. I've said exactly this before.
-
Theodore Conrad Desmarais
Misunderstanding of parameters.
-
Theodore Conrad Desmarais
OF course Universal equality is critical, your correct, not comprehending the spectrum in geography, culture and local circumstances. Unity has polarities, and parameters of correct functionality. Specifics are the only correct judgement, generalities cannot and are divisive.
-
-
-
Robin Anne Hannon
I have said this before but when you start doing this to one group of people, other groups follow. So next it could be Jews, or Blacks, Asians, who knows? Give an inch and this bigotry takes a mile.
-
Angelic Realms
My main thought is WHY do you want someone, who clearly is uncomfortable with you, to make YOUR food? It makes no sense. Like treating a waiter like crap and being surprised they spit in your food.
I just would stick with those that celebrate me, and want to be in my network, and referrels. This way you can feel safe with recommending them. They will find their people, and you find yours. Anything else constitutes harassment in my book. You're not "teaching them a lesson". You have no authority or place doing that. You're just a potential customer. .
-
Warren Calvin Wall
Are there no gay bakers? That just seems odd to me. If you are a gay baker, open a bakery. Refuse to make wedding cakes for heterosexual couples. Easy peasy 🤷♂️
-
Rev. MichaelRS
Philosophically I agree with you, but the problem with that is that there is no established religious history demonstrating a conviction against heterosexual relationships in general or marriage in particular.
-
Sherrell K Zitting
Comment removed by user.
-
Sherrell K Zitting
Comment removed by user.
-
Sherrell K Zitting
Warren:
Gay bakers? Most bakers are happy.
-
-
-
Brian H. Miller
Nobody should be forced into doing anything they don't want to do.
-
Steven Ferrell
Funny I never see any gays go to try and force a Muslim baker to make them a gay wedding cake, or go to a Muslim florist, or name whatever business you want, to try and force them to do whatever they want done for a gay wedding. Why is the attack strictly against Christians?
You cannot FORCE people to accept and go along with your personal beliefs.
But the bigger question is, WHY would you want to even do business with a company that does not support your views and there are other companies out there that do support them?
WHY would you want to support their business and help them make money?? If a company is obviously against my views, I sure as heck don’t want to line their pockets with my money. I go to a business more in line with my beliefs.-
Warren Calvin Wall
Exactly. I have carried a gun professionally and privately for all of my adult life. I have been a firearms instructor for over 35 years. I an establishment has a "No Guns" sign, I walk away and take my business elsewhere. I do not go on in and berate the employees about their company's policies. It's their right. Just as it is my right to carry a gun. You have the right to your lifestyle that has somehow become confused with gender. I have the right to refuse to participate. I personally treat everyone with respect until they prove to me that they are disrespectful. If they turn out to be disrespectful, I simply refuse to interact with them.
-
-
Maria Elisa Koch
I said it before and I'll say it again. What happened to love thy neighbor? Christ did not see color when he preached. The extreme MAGA and right are teaching this and they call themselves Christians?
-
Rev. MichaelRS
That does not mean that you also love and encourage your neighbor's sin or that you participate in celebrating it.
-
-
John Dickson
As the owner of several business for the past 50 years, reagardless, you are black, white, gay, or straight, you are a CUSTOMER! As a customer, your money is green. Refusing to do business is stupid.
Personaly, I am open mined. Some things in life I don't agree with but, thats my business. What others do with there life's is there business.
-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Now you've done it - now the conservatives will boycott you for WOKE IDEOLOGY.
-
-
Florencio Guevara
This is exactly the pattern of public behavior that ushered in the Nazis, Communists, and the Inquisition. We are entering, sadly, a Second Inquisition---the Protestant Inquisition. The GOP Inquisition....
-
Nicholas John Stricker
When you own a business you have the right to refuse service to anyone....left...right...gay...non gay.... Democrats... Republicans.....it's your business.....
-
Michael Holland
Yes but be prepared, turn about is fair play!
-
Claire Echo Blackmoon
I wish had hadn't read most of the comments in here, regurgitation of hateful rhetoric against an already marginalized minority. Do better.
As a Member here I feel sad know so many of you would see me dead.
I am a Divine Feminists, trans woman, lesbian, Cosmic Creatrix, Catalyst for Love. I believe God is an Patriarchal Distortion manifestation of Source Goddess. She is Love, All there is, and Loves All. Always and in All ways.
Any one person who wants to judge, defame, deny service, denigrate Me or Any other reflection of Divine Source, is blatantly exposing and projecting their own internalized issues. "let he is without sin throw the first stone." John 8:7 "...for you are all one in Christ Jesus" Ephesians 5:20
I thought this was the church of unity honoring All... . . . disappointed
-
Russel A. Kester
Claire, don't be so disappointed. We do acknowledge each other's right to believe whatever they want to believe, but we seem to also acknowledge the right to argue about it. Kind of like making sausage. For example, I found your post fascinating because there are things you mentioned to which I cheer and cry out a lot 'yes.' And SO MUCH I want to 'discuss' because I see things very differently. But that the wonderful thing about this place, I would otherwise probably never meet and dialogue with someone like you. Your presence enlargens (if that's a word) this space.
-
ServantOfJudgement
Can an atheist design a meaningful pro Christian website? Is a pro abortionist able to make a cake to celebrate the overturning of RvsW? Will a pro Hillary Clinton graphics designer be able to design a Trump victory billboard? Can these people do these jobs in clear conscience and with due diligence to the would be customer? Some will say yes and some will say no. If a company can not perform the job in the way the paying customer expects then that that company is obligated to decline the job. This reality of the business world unfortunately is a toe in the door for declining work because of racism or bigotry. My heart goes out to the dog that never got groomed, poor little critter just needed a hair cut.
-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
"You're going to Hell unless you join our club!"
"Hurray gestational slavery!"
"Vote for bigotry, prejudice, and making the poor poorer and rich richer!"
There you go - no charge.
-
ServantOfJudgement
Kenneth,
Can a government legislate inspiration? If a company isn't inspired to make a Trump 2024 billboard can the government force the artist who hates Trump to be inspired by him for a good quality billboard that will help him win the election? Or would the billboard picture of trump have a hitler mustach under his nose? Probably, from a liberal artist, probably. This is what were talking about. You cannot legislate inspiration.
-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
I disagree. I think it self-evident Trump inspires me a great deal.
-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Also:
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a47407/american-nazi-party-supports-trump/
-
Warren Calvin Wall
As you say. But, this does not mean that Trump supports the ANP. In fact, if you really take a look at Trump's past actions and statements you will see, unequivocally, that Trump does not in fact support NAZIS of any nation. Nor does he support any racism. In fact, over his entire adult life, he has been very supportive of equal rights and especially supportive of Blacks in America.
-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Right-wing media has reported how good he is to everybody.
Do you suppose that's why the racists support him?
Because this information isn't so much about Trump as the FACT THAT THE RACISTS SUPPORT TRUMP.
HOW in the world do you look at that and just shrug it off? WHY would it matter what Trump says about it??? THE RACISTS SUPPORT TRUMP. Are you getting it? Is anything penetrating? YOU support a person who is SUPPORTED by THE racists, the NAZIS and the KKK AND at the time the Taliban!! Doesn't that concern you in the least??? Aren't you at least curious WHY that might be so? FFS!
-
Warren Calvin Wall
Well, for one thing, I am not a Trump supporter. I haven't voted for him nor will I. I am simply stating the results of research. You see, I actually research for myself into the backgrounds of any candidates that I may decide to support for any elected office, or decide to oppose for that matter. Your assumption is offensive. I'm not even a Republican or a Democrat for that matter. They are equally offensive to me. Neither has the interests of the People in mind nor do they support the Constitution in any significant manner. They both simply work to find ways to circumvent the Constitution to accomplish their goals. There are a TON of things that ALL politicians do that concerns me but that isn't what this discussion is about, is it?
-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Funny, you completely agreed with what Trump said in your previous post, even though there are "very fine people on both sides".
And you do know every time an American expresses doubt in our government, Putin, Xi, and Kim Jong Un laugh their rears off, right?
Are you okay?
-
Warren Calvin Wall
Well, I'm not Christian so there's that. I also have no problems with anyone being gay or trans, it's their business. The problem that I have is trying to make it my business and the attempts to insert inappropriate materials into the classrooms. If it can't be broadcast during daytime television it doesn't belong in our schools. If it can't be viewed in a theater by children below a certain age, it doesn't belong in our schools. The whole problem is the attempt to force sexual materials into our schools. There is NO place for any of such materials in our schools. Your rights end when they infringe the rights of others. Our right to exclude such abhorrent materials from our children's classrooms is every bit as legitimate as excluding religious materials in the classroom. It will be fought against with great vigor and it may eventually become violent in nature if it goes that far. Perversion does not belong in education. Period.
-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
There it is. Anyone not just like you is "perversion".
You have just self-defined yourself as the ultimate and definitive human. There is no 'other' - there is only "perversion".
Have you ever wondered if humanity might be bigger than you? That all the diversity we see in nature might be reflected in us too? That's a laugh, isn't it.
You've been watching too much right-wing media, because that is exactly the kind of paranoia and hate they perpetuate.
By definition half of all people are below average intelligence. That's the bad news. The good news is the other half can actually see beyond the tip of their nose - and the middle isn't too dumb either.
Yours is the exact same mentality that burned witches. You are on the wrong side of science, the wrong side of morality, and the wrong side of history.
-
-
-
-
Theodore Conrad Desmarais
True , you cannot legislate inspiration, morality, etc etc.
-
-
-
-
Daniel Ginther
This is America, take it or leave it
-
Theodore Conrad Desmarais
Not. .............America : Make IT !
-
-
William Moses
Should there be a difference between a sincerely held belief (regardless of how misguided) and a gut reaction without an accompanying faith based belief? IOW - if I never go to church or practice my religion in any way, can I still justify a religious exemption?
-
Gary L Hamann
right wrong or indifferent.... the owner of abusiness should have the right to refuse service to anybody they please
-
Theodore Conrad Desmarais
Like EVERYTHING, there is a spectrum a range with limited parameters, of correct functioning. Hot / Cold , Dark / Light, and so on, everything ( note: Universal Spirituality, Zen,etc comprehension of UNITY of the Universe : there is only ONE thing, IE: there is no such thing as cold , only lack of heat ({ heat is infinite: Large Hadron Accelerator hottest recorded temp: 9.9 trillion degrees, cold is no heat : -273.15c : absolute zero) and there is no such thing as Dark there is only lack of light : photons or no photons , examples excluded for brevity. and so on with EVERYTHING.
This relates directly to everything as well , such as today's LBGTQ+ etc issues. The businesses on a small , local scale must be able to descriminate based on values. Large businesses and global, national, scales must NOT. that is of course a very simplified answer for brevity, Freedom ( my home is my castle ) is the basis of correct living, Freedom ( the world must accommodate multiculturalism ) is the other end of the spectrum , we must , must, must understand the parameters and the correct application legally of the PLACE ON THE SPECTRUM, each circumstance and each contingency is to correctly judge a particular case. We must stop thinking in dualisms, The Universe is a Unity.
-
William Patrick Benedict
It's not n the way.
-
Sam Prater
NEVER! Period.
-
Carol J VanderMiller
To remove each individuals individual freedoms of choice is wrong. Each individual whether they own a business or not should have an individual right to make their own decisions. There are many other places people have options to do business with - & again that individuals choice. Our individual freedoms are being taken away from us which makes us look more like Russia, China & other countries that are communist or fascists & reserving individual freedom of choice is what goes to make up America. Each person has an individual God given right to express their point of view which should be allowed to happen regardless if another person does not like it because that person thinks differently. Just because a person thinks different from another is not a judgement but just again, part of their individual right to freedom.
To force by anger, crimes against another, slander, harming another, etc. should not be allowed under any circumstances. Destruction of an individuals personal belongings or business should never be allowed. Bringing harm because of a belief to another is again like China, Russia, etc. so is that what we really want to see in our America?
-
West Warren
You should be allowed to do business with whoever you like. Unless you receive government aid. Tax breaks, subsidized loans, and any form of capital you gain from the government in any form. As well if you are publicy traded you should not have the right to refuse service.
-
Kevin W Titus
As reality is"To Each their Own". But it is in the Bible, a Sin. God gave us many wonderful things in Life,Choice is one.but he will not interfere with our will. God will have to figure this out,not us,not Me. But there are many Religious objections .I also understand. That is Their Right to stand up too. Science also supposedly knows the facts of Life? We all are on this Planet as God;s gift of Life,a very short time it is really? Your Beliefs are your Beliefs,whether they are not reality or not. I enjoy marrying two people who truely love each other,but there are Laws and Religious Objections as well,that must be also respected by all ,as well. They have the Right to Not service whom they want. The other side can also choice to find,another who will?
-
Gregory W. Edwards
No Homosexuals rights are not being threatened! Zero! It is not even about sexual preferences or marriage rights. It is about rights in the sense that the vendor has the right to serve or refuse to serve anyone and those rights are being violated when they are forced to serve someone because of "ta da" "mental disorder"! FYI using the LBGTQ+ whatever acronym is just as bogus as the pronouns games. If it's not heterosexual or an earthworm it is homosexual... If they use the LBGTQ+ to include everyone why did they leave out the "H" for heterosexual?
-
Canadian Yankee
If I can refuse to buy from any vendor for any or even no reason, why it is right to demand the vendor not to have the same rights when choosing their customers?
-
John Dickson
As the owner of several businesses for the past 50 years, regardless, you are black, white, gay, or straight, you are a CUSTOMER! As a customer, your money is green and you will be treated with respect. Refusing to do business is stupid. Due to my business, as a tattoo artist, I have been discriminated against several times. While in Searcy, Ar, I stopped at the Kentucky Chicken for dinner. They called the police and had me escorted off the property. They refused to sell me chicken. Similar things have happened over the years.
Personally, I am open mined. I don't agree with some things in life, but that's my business. What others do with their lives is their business.
A customer once told me that I was racist. I said YES, I am, but no more than you. He asks, what do you mean? I said you used the words "hunkey or cracker" more often than I used the N-word. He turned out to be a nice guy. He bought a $200.00 tattoo and after 15 years, we are still friends.
-
Gerard J Babin
Like it or not; this country was founded on CHRISTIAN Values and Christian LAW. THe LGBTQAA+ or minus what ever it is calling itself are condemned to hell unless they remove themselves from this sick and disturbed lifestyle - it is and was non negotiable. GOD loves the sinner but hates the sin - so don't lecture me on Jesus hung out with the dregs of society- he did it for one reason and one reason only- too turn them back to GOD. Under the law any business has the right to refuse service for any reason, an the Government has no authority to say otherwise. Seems like a bunch of liberals are getting their feelings hurt. GOD's word is law. Holding artificial services in fake churches does not make you a queer christian, it makes you one of the condemned there is no way around it. Man nor Government can make any law that goes against GOD's law without being doomed for it. In all faiths- Christian or otherwise to GO Against your GOD, is blasphemy and condemns one to burn or wander eternally. As a history scolar I can tell you without a doubt that this is fact. Male and Female he made them to fill the world with life. No man or woman can alter this with any written law.
-
Sherrell K Zitting
Yuh, I like how they try to be all inclusive:
LGBTQAATHR4G%/4%:**%^FRGJUG55YC.
We can learn from that.
-
Russel A. Kester
Gerard, you wrote that God's word is law which I suppose leads you to say the many ugly things you did. First, any religion's holy writings are not God's word, but are words about the writer's thoughts and ideas about God. There was no divine dictation. These writings also show the prejudices of the time in which they were written. Secondly, to whom does this God of yours apply? Certainly not to anyone who doesn't ascribe to your religions beliefs. Thirdly, being gay is a sexual orientation with growing scientific evidence and understanding of how it comes about not a chosen lifestyle. And, finally, there is nothing immoral or perverse in being gay. There is, however, great shame in uninformed, ignorant tyraids by grown adults.
-
Minister Raymond Butterworth
No, God didn't write the Bible. He did however help. God put his word in the hearts and minds of those who wrote it. The word and the law of God applies to all persons regardless of whether or not they want it to. No matter what science or any other worldly influence may have to say, being gay is immoral. This doesn't mean that we should hate,ridicule, be hostile to nor alienate homosexuals in any way. Thats not the behavior of a true Christian. Love the sinner, hate the sin. Hatred breeds more hatred and it feeds on itself and grows out of control. Love is the way and Jesus is love. I will leave you with this, the shame, the real shame is lost souls. And once gone its to late. So let's stop the hate and use love to start saving souls instead of destroying the souls of others, because the price is our own soul.
-
-
-
Sherrell K Zitting
All sex is immoral, saith the Lord (Matt. 5:28). I don't care if it is gay sex or "faithful" Christian. To lust for anyone, even your wife, is the true definition of adultery. Our Lord says so right there (Matt. 5:28).
All who partake of the forbidden fruit in the midst of your garden (groin, midway between your crown and your feet), shall die, saith the Lord (Gen. 2:17).
Only those who become virgins shall live and be redeemed, saith the Lord (Rev. 14:4).
That said, Christians now proven guilty, will not refuse service to others. ""(S)he who is without sin, let them cast the first stone"", for all have sinned, saith the Lord. To lead is to serve. True Christians are "servants", of God, and to serve, even as God Himself feeds us all. All people have need to be served and nourished and shined upon by the daily light.
If Christians object, they reject the Word and Way of God who serves ALL, and shines His light upon all. ""Let your light so shine, that all may see your good works and glorify God"". Nothing wrong with a rainbow. It is manifest in the very heavens. It's the sex that kills, and all have sinned.
-
Rev. MichaelRS
That is silly. There's a verse prior to Matthew 5:28 where it's talking about adultery and obviously hedonistic desire for a woman outside of marriage.
Satan, or whatever you wish to call him, is known to twist the words of God starting from Genesis 3:4-5. This is no different.
-
Minister Raymond Butterworth
Matt.5-28 " But I say unto you, that who so ever Looks at a woman to lust after her Hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." It doesn't mention ones wife. How one reads gen. 2-17 and gets anywhere near the groin truly baffles me. I would like to know how you reached that conclusion. It seems like your putting all emphasis on sex as the main issue. Rev 14-4 does not say one must be a virgin to be redeemed. They are referring to 12000 male virgins from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. These men were sealed by angels to be servants to God. This can be seen in rev 7. Man and wife are supposed to desire one another. God intended man and wife to want each other. Most important, the only way to redemption if thru Jesus christ. Jesus is the only way to redemption.
-
Sherrell K Zitting
Minister Raymond Butterworth says: Jul 24, 2023 at 10:04 am Hello, I am a Christian minister. It is my belief that all this hate is not going to help anyone. So many people are so full of hate and use Christianity as a platform to release that hate. A true Christian is to hate the sin.
Well put.
-
Sherrell K Zitting
Minister Raymond:
Gay bakers? Matt. 5:28 ""Whosoever looks at a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery"". Is your wife a woman? Yes. So you committ adultery. It doesn't matter how much a pervert seeks to justify his crime. The crime remains, until the sex offender repents.
Gen. 2:17 Yes, sex is the main issue from the Garden of Eden until now. We are the children of God, His kindergarden, and just as it says in 3:3: But of the fruit of the tree which is IN THE MIDST of the garden (us), God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. Where is the midst, or midway, between the crown of our head and the soles of our feet? THE GROIN.
Then as 2:17 says clearly: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: For in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Man is a tree with branches, as is his decendants a genealogical tree, and God here is speaking to the man and his wife. Knowledge between them is carnal knowledge (sex), even as it says so (Gen 4:4): Adam KNEW Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain.
See, God put all emphasis on sex as the main issue, purity over corruption. Virginal is better than vaginal.
1 Cor. 3: 1. And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
For ye are yet carnal.
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
Rev 14: 1. And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
- These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
""REDEEMED, FOR THEY ARE VIRGINS"". We all know what virgins are: No sex, for perverts, "they who defile women", have no place with God. But sex addicts are like alcohol addicts, forever justifying their addiction and crime, while casting aside the Word of God (Christ), as is plainly given in Gen. 3:3, Matt. 5:28, 1 Cor. 3:17, Rev. 14, and more, from Genesis to Revelation.
As you just said, the only way of redemption is through Christ the Word (John 1:1), which He plainly gives us here: These are the redeemed, for they are virgins, not defiled with women.
Christ cannot be more clear than that.
-
Minister Raymond Butterworth
It was a tree in the garden of eden. Gen 2;8-9. There is no mention of the crown of your head nor the soles of your feet nor your groin. It was the tree of knowledge of good and evil and they did eat of it and did not die. They were exiled. When this was first commanded eve hadn't yet been created and when they were exiled eve was the only woman on earth. Who then i wonder was there to lust after. God said be fruitful and multiply. Is that perverted? Man should leave father and mother and cleave to his wife and they twain shall be one flesh. Matt 19-5. Of course Adam knew his wife. They were a couple. Theres nothing perverted in man and wife wanting each other. So, getting to the point, sex is not the main issue. God commanded Adam to not eat from the tree and he and eve did. The issue is disobedience to the word of God. Sex and lust outside of the marriage are sins. This is true. But the MAIN issue is our failure to follow the commandments given us by God. This is what we have to work on. Your clearly are an intelligent person sherrell, and quite interesting to communicate with. Were on the same side, just with a few differing opinions. May Gods light shine on you.
-
Sherrell K Zitting
PART 1:
YOU SAY: It was a tree in the garden of eden. Gen 2;8-9. There is no mention of the crown of your head nor the soles of your feet nor your groin.
Look at the Hebrew for "Tree" for this very verse. It is "Atsah" (6095), "To close the eyes". So by partaking of that forbidden fruit in the midst of your garden (as Gen. 3:3 specifically states), midway between the soles of your feet and the crown of your head being your groin (sex), your eyes are closed, exactly as the Jewish tongue says (Atsah: "To close the eyes", end quote).
The dignity of the Word of God chooses to call it a "Tree", and not a groin or a pee pee? So quit doing it. It makes you go blind. Again, to close your eyes to the mysteries of the Kingdom of God, for look at this: The Word of God is in parables, as is "Tree" a parable, just as He says:
Matt. 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:” See. His Word is ONLY in parables, and Tree in Hebrew: "To close your eyes".
Mark 4:34 He did not tell them anything without using a parable. But privately He would explain all things to His own disciples (which are few, for few there be of the higher intelligence, that find it or conceive it (Matt. 7:14).
Matt. 13:10 10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath (the spirit of truth or germ of life), to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear.
In preparation for the return of the King of kings, and His Prince Michael, the world after 6,000 years is now reverting back FROM the Tree of (carnal) Knowledge, through tribulation,TO the Tree of Life and its Paradisiacal Glory as before, in Eden, and they have their minister.
THEN YOU SAY: It was the tree of knowledge of good and evil and they did eat of it and did not die. They were exiled.
See, knowledge and consequence of good by avoiding it, and of evil by partaking, and in that very day they did die, not only spiritually, but also physically. Adam was 930 years old when He died. One day in the Lord is a 1,000 years:
2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
So He died before a single day was finished, and all of humanity who committ or continue in this fatal crime of original sin die of the spirit of life and intelligence within their own bodies. Their immunity is shot, and finally in this generation the Lord brings upon them pandemic without remedy.
THEN YOU SAY: When this was first commanded eve hadn't yet been created and when they were exiled eve was the only woman on earth. Who then i wonder was there to lust after.
See, there she was, exiled just as you just say, a woman to lust after, so that the family of God may fall into sin and learn to overcome the sin, to become virgins and thus the way to be redeemed (Rev. 14:4). You only speak to justify your sin, but the pervert shall not see God nor heaven. The sex offender dwells not in purity, for God is pure.
THEN YOU SAY: God said be fruitful and multiply. Is that perverted? Man should leave father and mother and cleave to his wife and they twain shall be one flesh.
You misread that. Finish the quote, and don't just take pieces out of context to justify the crime of a sexual pervert. What it actually says is this (Gen. 1:28):
""Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, AND SUBDUE IT"", end quote.
Your body is clay, dirt, of the dust of this earth. SUBDUE it, the immoral passions of the body, and cease defiling and shaming and dishonoring your companion, and adulterating the marriage covenant of purity. ""Whosoever lusts for a woman has committed adultery"" period (Jesus Christ: Matt. 5:28). ""Only they who become virgins shall be redeemed"" period (Rev. 14:4).
-
Sherrell K Zitting
PART 2:
THEN YOU SAY: Matt 19-5. Of course Adam knew his wife. They were a couple. Theres nothing perverted in man and wife wanting each other.
"Nothing perverted"??? They were given the death penalty for it, and died that very day as promised, a spiritual death, which spirit once gave life to the body which now dies away.
YOU CONTINUE: So, getting to the point, sex is not the main issue. God commanded Adam to not eat from the tree and he and eve did.
They did, partake, AND were cast out, and died spiritually and physically in that very day of the Lord, which is a 1,000 years (Adam living 930 years), and brought death to all of humanity to follow. And only by repenting and becoming virgins shall they be redeemed from that death (Rev. 14:4). See, sex is INDEED the main issue of human life.
YOU CONTINUE "The issue is disobedience to the word of God". Sex and lust outside of the marriage are sins. This is true. But the MAIN issue is our failure to follow the commandments given us by God. This is what we have to work on.
Correct. Well put, putt putt: The issue is the Word and commandment of God: Gen. 3:3 ("the fruit in your midst": groin). Matt. 5:28 ("all sexual lust is adultery"). "Thou shalt not commit adultery" (Ex. 20:14 & Matt. 5:27). "You are a temple of God. If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy" (1 Cor. 3:17). "Only they who become virgins shall live, and be redeemed" (Rev. 14:4)... and much more of the actual Word of God, the issue at hand, and ""what you have to work on"", as you well put. So obey and live, or disobey and die.
YOU CONTINUE Your clearly are an intelligent person sherrell, and quite interesting to communicate with. Were on the same side, just with a few differing opinions. May Gods light shine on you.
Diametrically opposite sides (for now). Yes, may God's light shine on YOU. If I am ""clearly intelligent"", as you confess, light is intelligence, so God's light clearly shines upon me, as clearly given in His Word, clearly stated above.
Chokmah of the Tree of Life, which the world (reserved for the faithful to inherit) is now reverting back to (from 6,000 years of the tree of carnal knowledge), this chokmah is the primordial wind, wisdom, energy, or Word, Jesus Christ, which you have continued to deny, but you are learning the mysteries of the Kingdom, the very reason for coming to this earth.
This Chokmah blows over the lake of all life form, which is Binah of the Tree of Life, Prince Michael, son of the King of kings or Chokmah, and all of Michael's (Adam's) family, the primordial lake of all life form including humanity.
As this primordial wind or wisdom of God is blowing on all life form, through media and nature and innumerable agencies, visible effects of the invisible manifest (including the dawning of the light upon dark and lost souls), for those souls which become free of the dark and evil prejudice (or lust) of the ages, and are therefore open to the truth (Tiferet of the Tree of Life).
There is yet gentleness and forbearance toward brooding inferiors, as a bird's foot over a fledgling. This produces joy in actual obedience to God, creating the basis for mutual confidence and achievements in the Order of God. The light giving power must work to quicken a hollow egg from the outside, but there must be a germ of with within, if life is to be awakened and sustained. Then a living rapture and good fortune.
Only those, the more intelligent of humanity, who become virgins shall live (Gen. 3:3), and be redeemed unto God (Rev. 14:4). The harvest of the earth is underway, and then the burning (Matt. 9:37, 13:40, Jer.8:20).
Here is the Tree of Life, the road map to heaven:
https://www.geneseo.edu/yoga/sefirot-tree-life
https://medium.com/hermetic-academy/kabbalah-introduction-to-the-tree-of-life-d87d32a793ba
-
Minister Raymond Butterworth
Sherrell, You are clearly intelligent but in my perception your blinded by sex. Anyone can have there own beliefs and find ways to make the scriptures fit them. Gen 3.3 does not mention the groin no matter how much you try to make it. Thats the only example ill use tho there are more. You seem to be obsessed with sex and stretching the scriptures to fit your ideologies. I know your strongly set in your ideology and nothing i can say will change that. I believe you should read the Bible again and take it's words as they are without trying to squeeze or stretch them. I hope you find peace. I will pray for you. Goodbye.
-
Sherrell K Zitting
Sherrell Zitting: AN EDIT: Change "with" for the word "LIFE", in the previous post:
The light giving power must work to quicken a hollow egg from the outside, but there must be a germ of LIFE within, if life is to be awakened and sustained. Then a living rapture and good fortune.
Ray is suggestive of light, as a ray of light, butt butter not so much. Yes, God and His agents are obsessed with one task only, the saving of His children from a fall that occurred 6,000 years ago in Eden, when the Father/God of His human family fell THAT MAN MIGHT BE, by partaking of the tree of carnal knowledge, or of a man "KNOWING" his wife, which we all know is nothing more or less than sex.
The Gods and their true agents are indeed "obsessed" with that learning correction for His children, reverting from that Tree of (carnal) Knowledge given in Genesis in parable, the very beginning of the scriptures and of life on earth, back to that Tree of Life also given in Genesis in parable. For the Word of God to fallen man is only in parable, as shown in the above scriptures of Matthew. That reversion and redemption are brought about by becoming virgins, as shown in this very end of the scriptures and of evil life and evil living on this earth, in Revelation (14:4), which again is "sex obsessed", as you put it, in God's decree that only virgins shall be redeemed.
That first book says man must die if they continue to partake (Gen. 3:3), and that last book says that man will live by ceasing to partake, to become virgins (Rev. 14:4). And Christ Himself declaring that all who lust for a woman, any woman, IS an adulterer. All about sexual purity unto life, or sexual perversion unto death, and now you must choose your obsession.
Christ Himself was conceived by immaculate or clean conception. The angel/God did not touch the mortal flesh of the 12 year old girl Mary, for He is pure, even as Christ commanded the woman Mary Magdolene to "Touch me not" (Jn 20:17).
Are the Gods and the Prophets in their obsession for purity, "blinded by sex", as you say, while you insist on sex? Very telling. The scripture "does not mention groin", as you say, because of the dignity that dwells with God, and the corruption with man. So He must speak to you in parables:
MATT. 13 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
How can honorable and intelligent beings "take the words as they are" as you put it, when God deliberately spoke them all in parables as He says, "because of the grossness of your heart" and desire to rape and defile women (Matt. 13:15 & 5:28). Talk about being "sex obsessed"!!!
Then you seek to flee from the truth of the conversation by saying "Goodbye", as if to end your suffering. I do wish you well. Humanity, the children of Prince Michael, came to this earth for this express purpose to take a body and learn eventually to "Subdue it" (Gen. 1:28). IE, self control, true self, Tiferet of the Tree of Life.
-
Sherrell K Zitting
Comment removed by user.
-
Sherrell K Zitting
We are God's children, or His Kindergarten. Kinder means "children", as in kinder-garten or garden. Etymology: German: Childrens' Garden. Thus the Garden of Eden''s reference to The "Tree of (carnal) Knowledge in their midst of the garden (Gen. 3:3), or in YOUR midst, midway between the crown of your head and the soles of your feet. Midway is the groin. Therefore:
GEN. 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
-
Minister Raymond Butterworth
Hello sherrell. WOW!! I just came back to read over things again and what do I see. You've written a book. Where to begin; A person is born a virgin. This condition, Once Lost, can not be regained. You can be born again in christ and your slate will be wiped clean, but you cant become a virgin. The memory's we have will not be erased nor will the earthly psychical consequences of our actions. rev 14-4 YOU SAY "in Gods decree that only virgins shall be redeemed. " then YOU SAY from the same verse "and Christ himself declaring that all who lusts for a woman, is an adulterer. All about sexual purity unto life or sexual perversion unto death. And now you must choose your obsession." Are you not the same person who once admonished me for changing words or not using the whole passage? Now it would seem that its my turn to say that to you. Rev 14-4 " These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the lamb.". It doesn't say only virgins shall be redeemed nor does it say anything about lust etc. Please allow me to direct your attention to the last line of Rev 14-4. It DOES say that these redeemed were the firstfruits unto God and to the lamb. So the way i understood this is maby they were redeemed first but we all have the same opportunity. This is many times shown in the Bible. The TREE of knowledge. Gen 2;8-9. Says God "planted a garden" and out of the ground he made to grow every tree. Also it says God put adam in this garden. It is easy to love and worship one when there is only one. God put the TREE in the garden of eden because he wanted adam to choose him, to pick him over all else, that is why that tree was there. It is not anything to do with the groin. You mentioned Gods dignity of words when speaking of the groin. Check deut:23:1.there are plenty ways to say something in a dignified manner and im sure God knows all about them. I must go now but I will finish The second part of this response tomorrow. thank you for your patience.
-
Minister Raymond Butterworth
The original sin was disobedience, the failure to follow the word of God. Fornication is a sin. No doubt about that whatsoever. The covenant of marriage between a man and a woman makes all things carnal between them clean and pure and its no longer a sin. This is clearly stated in the Bible. One example of this would be in the teachings of Paul. 1cor7:1-5. YOU SAY "only those, The more intelligent of humanity, who become virgins shall live and be redeemed unto God." Im asking for clarification here. Are you saying that a person Who is not intelligent cannot be redeemed unto the Lord. Thank you very much. I just need clarification before I can figure out how to respond to this one.
-
Sherrell K Zitting
YOU: The original sin was disobedience, the failure to follow the word of God. Fornication is a sin. No doubt about that whatsoever. The covenant of marriage between a man and a woman makes all things carnal between them clean and pure and its no longer a sin. This is clearly stated in the Bible. One example of this would be in the teachings of Paul. 1cor7:1-5.
ME: See, disobedience to the command of a holy God to NOT PARTAKE of carnal knowledge in your midst (groin), to NOT BE UNHOLY, all "clearly stated in the Bible" (Gen. 3:3, 1 Cor. 3:17, Matt. 5:28, Rev. 14:4, etc...). The original marriage covenant is a covenant of sexual purity. Something carnal and filthy is not "pure and no longer a sin".
2 TIM 2: 19 The foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
22 Flee also youthful lusts (Matt 5:27), but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
YOU: YOU SAY "only those, The more intelligent of humanity, who become virgins shall live and be redeemed unto God." Im asking for clarification here. Are you saying that a person Who is not intelligent cannot be redeemed unto the Lord. Thank you very much. I just need clarification before I can figure out how to respond to this one.
ME: God dwells in the light, and light is intelligence, so you are correct in that only the more intelligent can dwell in the light of heaven, or with God. To dicifer and live the parable of scripture, the mysteries of the Kingdom, is intelligence, obedience to God and acceptance of God. Only sexual purity can dwell with God, for God is pure.
2 Peter 2:19 - While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
Galatians 6:8 - For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
2 Peter 1:4 - Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15 - For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. (Read More...)
Romans 8:21 - Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
John 16:33 - These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
Revelation 2:2 - I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Acts 13:34-37 - And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. (Read More...)
Acts 2:27 - Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Romans 12:2 - And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
-
Sherrell K Zitting
ADDENDUM
YOU SAY: The original sin was disobedience, the failure to follow the word of God. Fornication is a sin. No doubt about that whatsoever. The covenant of marriage between a man and a woman makes all things carnal between them clean and pure and its no longer a sin. This is clearly stated in the Bible. One example of this would be in the teachings of Paul. 1cor7:1-5.
JOB 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.
PS. 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
The world has had this God-given problem for 6,000 years, since the women tempted Eve at Eden, to develop the spirits of His children. But now, Christ cometh to seize the government of this world from Lucifer. So now, the world is being transitioned from carnal knowledge, sexual corruption, toincorruptible, and those who obey shall live.
1 JOHN 3 3 Every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. .
ROM. 5 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.
17 For if by one man's offence, death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness (through obedient repentance) shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ). .
EPH. 2 1 you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Saved by grace in good works (repentance in obedience to Christ), not for boasting, but for His grace and acceptance:
8 By grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
-
Minister Raymond Butterworth
And just for clarification on my part, are you saying that sex and desiring ones spouse is dirty, wrong, a sin?
-
Sherrell K Zitting
YOU: And just for clarification on my part, are you saying that sex and desiring ones spouse is dirty, wrong, a sin?
PART 1
ME: That is correct, and not just any sin. It is the ultimate sin. It is murder, and carries for you the death penalty, and is the original crime that brought death to this entire world, to wit:
GEN. 3 1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, LEST YE DIE.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die (IE, YOU CALL GOD A LIAR).
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
GEN 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for IN THAT DAY that thou eatest thereof thou SHALL SURELY DIE.
See, you are not only this very day DEAD to the Spirit, unless you repent in order to gain consciousness of the life of spiritual matters, but your very body shall soon die also, and not only soon die, but REMAIN DEAD for a 1,000 years, while the obedient and righteous are now to live and reign with Christ on this earth during this 1000 years. Only then, after the glorious 1,000 year paradise on this earth for the obedient and faithFUL, shall you then have the resurrection of Christ (since He indeed died so that all may be resurrected to His eternal judgment), but then you DIE AGAIN to His judgement of an eternal Hell, while the righteous live on from eternity to eternity, to wit:
REV. 14 ""FOR THEY ARE VIRGINS""
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; FOR THEY ARE VIRGINS. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth (eternity to eternity). These were REDEEMED from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
So now, this is the harvest of the earth that is now before us, to harvest the select few unto eternal salvation, since "Few there be that find it", 144,000 (Matt. 7:13):
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and MANY there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it.
PRESENT DEATH, A CATACLYSMIC BURNING (prior to the 2nd death, damned to Hell, after the glorious 1,000 year reign of Christ):
REV. 8 6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
For verse 7, Strongs Concordance of the Bible shows the exact meaning of "Trees" in this particular parable, as all scripture is parable:
TREES (1167: Hebrew word BAAL): Husbands, babblers, and all who are confederate with the wicked, dreamer, those to whom a furious judgment is due.
As in the Tree of carnal Knowledge in the midst of you, God's garden or kindergarten (Gen. 3:3).
The Greek tongue for Strongs 1167 adds more details, in defining the Trees that will very soon be burnt: "The timid, fearful, dreadful, strange, faithless", end quote.
Buy the book. See it for yourself: https://www.amazon.com/Strongs-Exhaustive-Concordance-James-Strong/dp/0785250565/ref=asc_df_0785250565/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312721175982&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14352009528256547391&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9060325&hvtargid=pla-435489850448&psc=1
-
Sherrell K Zitting
PART 2
In that immoral state of mind and body, you are Babylon, not Christian, and certainly not a minister of Christianity, unless you are able to find it, this Gospel of repentance, of Jesus Christ, and come to accept His law by separating yourself from your Tree of carnal knowledge, the sex of a corrupt pervert, which has no place with Christ, but is burnt up. Do you have ears to hear, and the intellect to accept you Lord God?
MATT. 13 15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
May God be with you.
-
Sherrell K Zitting
ADDENDUM: SEX PLANTS THE SEEDS OF IMMEDIATE DEATH
When the brain shuts down, you die, right? Science has discovered that sexual arousal actually shuts down the brain, immediately compromising your immunity and opening you up to disease and death, to wit:
https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/braingasm-sex-and-your-synapses/
I'll quote it directly:
"It is a cliché that the brain is the “largest sex organ,” but the repetition of the phrase doesn’t make it any less true. The mechanics of its role during sex are less obvious and less well understood than that of the body’s other sex organs, but by using brain imaging scans, neuroscientists have begun to get a sense of what parts of the brain light up during sex...
"In his Big Think interview, Rutgers psychologist Barry Komisaruk, a pioneer of neuroscientific sex studies... says one early study of orgasms, suggests that the SUBJECTIVE experience of orgasm (or any arousal) is very similar between men and women. Despite having different anatomies, men and women seem to be hard-wired to experience sexual pleasure in the same way. He found A DECREASE IN VIGILENCE, the activity of the amygdala, the seat of vigilance and fear...
BRAIN DEAD: Newer brain imaging technology has allowed neuroscientists to test just this. In 2003 Dutch neuroscientist Gert Holstege used brain scans to see what parts of the brain were activated in both men and women during orgasm. And he found that brains go mysteriously silent during orgasm (BRAIN DEAD). In particular, the left lateral orbitofronal cortex and the dorsomedial prefrontal cortex, areas involved in self-control and social judgment, respectively, are deactivated. Brain activity also fell in the amygdala, suggesting a similar, albeit more drastic, drop in vigilance..."
So, IMMEDIATE DEATH of the brain at that very moment, planting the seed of compromise of immunity, disease, and death of the body, as well as spiritual death, dead to God and to all spiritual matters, therefore not seeing and understanding the Word and Law of God, but always questioning it and justifying the crime against yourself and your partners, and against society.
DEFILED TEMPLE IS DESTROYED THEN, when you soon pass away, leaving your defiled temple body, you REMAIN DEAD during the 1,000 year paradisical glory and reign of Christ and His obedient saints. THEN the wicked masses are resurrected from that death, but only to be judged to ANOTHER DEATH, an eternal Hell, while the faithful few continue life from one eternity to the next.
1 COR. 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. Let no man deceive himself.
Make your choice. Separate yourself from the tempter and live now and forever, or continue to reject Christ and die, now and forever.
-
Sherrell K Zitting
PART 1
YOU: Hello sherrell. WOW!! I just came back to read over things again and what do I see. You've written a book. Where to begin;
ME: See? You're lost from the get-go.
YOU: A person is born a virgin. This condition, Once Lost, can not be regained. You can be born again in christ and your slate will be wiped clean, but you cant become a virgin. The memory's we have will not be erased nor will the earthly psychical consequences of our actions.
ME: That is the beauty of the Gospel of Repentance from your sex crimes. You become clean again. What you are saying is that once you roll in the mud, you are eternally brown and are not allowed to take a bath (baptism). How desperate of a psyche and gospel is that? The true Gospel sequence is Faith, Repentance, Baptism, and then the gifts and talents of the Holy Spirit.
Only that is the Way, which is Christ, to be born again, by cleaning up to a clean or virgin state. If one could "never become virgin", as you fallacious say, and all beings have sinned (Rom. 3: see below), then you are saying that there is no such thing as redemption, because all are eternally dirty and damned. Redemption is for all who become clean, virgin, see, by faith and repentance (M & Y). Then immersion in Christ's Word and promise (H & N). Then the gifts of the Holy Spirit (T). Then the Grace of Christ (K). These are the sefirot of the Tree of Life, making you righteous:
Rom. 3 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
So as it states here, "THROUGH FAITH". So, believe it (v. 22). You are short in the shorts (v. 23), butt repentance justifies you (check your Bible index on "repentance". It is from Genesis to Revelation). Justifying yourself in sin and corruption does just the opposite of justifying you.
YOU: rev 14-4 YOU SAY "in Gods decree that only virgins shall be redeemed. "add then YOU SAY from the same verse "and Christ himself declaring that all who lusts for a woman, is an adulterer. All about sexual purity unto life or sexual perversion unto death. And now you must choose your obsession."
Are you not the same person who once admonished me for changing words or not using the whole passage? Now it would seem that its my turn to say that to you. Rev 14-4 " These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the lamb.". It doesn't say only virgins shall be redeemed nor does it say anything about lust etc.
ME: See, the whole passage is the whole package. It just confirms what is quoted before in that passage, that all who become clean by faith and repenting of their corruption, obtain all that follows in this passage. That simple. For then we qualify for resurrection prior to the millennial reign of Christ, to live with Him on this earth for a 1,000 years of His millennial reign as King of kings (ie, "First Fruits"), while the unrepentant masses must wait for a 1,000 years during Christ's reign to be resurrected unto His judgment after His reign (last fruits: rotten apples). See? "So simple that a child (being innocent) can understand it". You are either subject to understand, or you are subject to underpants.
No, Rev. 14:4 "says nothing about lust", as you say, but virgin precludes lust, does it not? And Christ DOES INDEED talk about the damnation of all who LUST for a wife or for any other woman (Matt. 5:28). So why do you insist on remaining a pervert and damned? There is a better way, son, repentance and obedience unto Christ: "Thou shalt not committ adultery", Lust. (Matt. 5:27).
-
Sherrell K Zitting
PART 2
YOU: The TREE of knowledge. Gen 2;8-9. Says God "planted a garden" and out of the ground he made to grow every tree. Also it says God put adam in this garden. It is easy to love and worship one when there is only one.
ME: Love and worship not at all, except for God alone, or else you are an idle worshipper AND a pervert.
YOU: God put the TREE in the garden of eden because he wanted adam to choose him, to pick him over all else, that is why that tree was there. It is not anything to do with the groin. You mentioned Gods dignity of words when speaking of the groin.
ME: Again, the Word of God is always in parable (Matt. 13:3): And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Repent. Then you become worthy to see and hear and know the mysteries. In this passage (Gen. 3), the mystery is this: It does indeed parable the groin, to wit:
You are trying to be subtle, to justify your crimes against women...
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is IN THE MIDST of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die (IE, "God is a liar").
See? WE are God's garden, as His children (kinder-GARTEN), and your MIDST just happens to be YOUR GROIN, for it is exactly MIDWAY between your crown and your feet. Finally, you know the parable, one of the many mysteries of the Kingdom of God. Deny NOT your Lord Jesus Christ, who proclaims most directly and emphatically that "All who lust for any woman IS AN ADULTERER " (Matt. 5:28).
YOU: Check deut:23:1.there are plenty ways to say something in a dignified manner and im sure God knows all about them. I must go now but I will finish The second part of this response tomorrow. thank you for your patience.
ME: Well put, putt putt. See, God can be very direct, for you, as need be. But He also maintains dignity by using parables to hide the mysteries of the Kingdom from the unworthy, as He saith:
(Matt. 13:3): And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
SIMPLE: But only for the innocence of a child:
MATT. 11:25 24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
1 PET. 1:13 13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
After 6,000 years of the reign of Lucifer and death in the Tree of carnal Knowledge (sex), the world is now transitioning to the reign of Christ and life in the Tree of Life (the holiness of virginity: Rev. 14:4). Virginal is better than vaginal: "They twain shall be ONE FLESH", no more death, division, or consciousness of male and female (TWO FLESH), but a consciousness of ONE FLESH, unisex (no more male vs female). IE, no more THOUGHT of lusting, as male and female, of bodily functions, but now a holy conscience strictly of spiritual matters.
MATT 5:28 (the very THOUGHT is adultery): ""Whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart"", saith the Lord.
GOD BLESS.
-
Minister Raymond Butterworth
Lost? Me? I think not. You've misread me just like so many of the Bible verses that you quote. Only those, the more intelligent of humanity who become virgins shall live and be redeemed unto God. This is basically what you said. So...what of all those who lived from AD all the way until science advanced far enough to do all the brain scans you quote so often. Did people for 2000 yrs just not have a chance because they weren't intelligent enuf to create the technology? Hm. Redemption has naught to do with intelligence. It has everything to do with faith. To get to heaven one must believe in Jesus as the Son of God, who died To pay for our sins. One must invite him in to there Heart and ask forgiveness of their sins and fully accept him as Lord and savior. Thats how to be saved. Gal2:20. John3:16. Acts3:19. 2pet3:9. Heb9:15.Psalm111:9. Rom10:9-10. Thats salvation. I can reference several more examples if needed. Btw, tell me where in the bible it says to become a virgin. Ty. First fruits first, and then rotten apples as you pointed out but there are 5000 plus yrs worth of good Christians souls to be harvested after the first fruits and before rotten apples. You put all Emphasis on fornication as humanity's primary problem. There are 10 commandments. Fornication is one. Hm. Had we not been Disobedient to the word of God, fornication would not have been an issue anyway. Repetitiously you say, sex and desire between man and wife is dirty and sinful. Check mat 19:5 and mark 10:7-8 and gen 2:24 and eph 5:31-32. The most telling examples 1cor 7:1-5 and heb 13:4. Theres the truth, rite from the Bible.period.
-
-
-
-
Sherrell K Zitting
My post on July 26, 7:44am was not supposed to start with "Gay bakers", and it won't delete. So screwed up. But now you have a clear and concise answer.
-
Sherrell K Zitting
That last post was not supposed to start with "Gay bakers", and it won't delete. So screwed up. But now you have a clear and concise answer.
-
-
-
Sherrell K Zitting
University studies prove that all sex stresses the brain, causing mini strokes, thus compromising the entire body.
https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/braingasm-sex-and-your-synapses/
-
David Bisel
People have the right to choose there own beliefs and the people who don't like it must be gay or know someone who is it there right to have there opinion and there beliefs too so why don't we all just mind our own business and move on like me this is my opinion an belief to say something and I really don't care
-
Steven Mihok
I am a Christian, I read the Bible , not as much as I should. I'll keep my opinion to myself. If anyone else that reads the Bible, you'll probably have the same opinion, just saying. Christ be with you.
-
Steven Mihok
We become weary as we journey through this broken world and sometimes feel there is no safe place to land. Fortunately, God has blessed us with spiritual friends and family to take us in when we need shelter. We comfort one another in times of sorrow and sing praises to the Lord in times of joy. We even provide discipline when required. God has taken care of our every needs and we must make sure we are providing for our friends and family as well.
-
Richard Lee Cornell
These people need to have signs in their business telling that all others should stay away that only selected members of her faith need to enter her business. That way us Americans need not bother her.
-
Daniel Todd Kamm
Anyone can bake a cake. Most people can find a way to create a basic website Most people can take photos...and post them. Most people can find and dress themselves in something nice. No one has to subscribe to these people who want to make a big deal about their personal beliefs. We are all entitled to our beliefs. But no one has to patronize them or put up with them because Anyone can bake a cake. Most people can find a way to create a basic website Most people can take photos...and post them. Most people can find and dress themselves in something nice.
Stop wasting time, energy and money on these people. Why sue in biased right wing courts?
Get 'em where the gettin' is good... in their wallets. And when they need it most, their right wing compatriots will get them when when they need public assistance.
No pain, all gain.
-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
I see so many people talking about the Lorie Smith SCOTUS decision, saying over and over, "But that's legalized discrimination!"
Yes, it is. Conservatives, particularly religious conservatives, desperately WANT to discriminate. They find openly looking down on and spitting on other people incredibly validating, and don't care what facts they have to ignore or what morals they have to burn to do it.
-
Minister Raymond Butterworth
Hello, I am a Christian minister. It is my belief that all this hate is not going to help anyone. So many people are so full of hate and use Christianity as a platform to release that hate. A true Christian is to hate the sin but love the sinner. The Bible says to love all people. What's this massive hate supposed to accomplish? Wheres it taking the world. What's the end result expected? The Bible says love thy neighbor. It says thou shall not judge "luke 6-37". To me, it seems like those of you who are spreading hate and dissension need to step back and evaluate your position and your soul. Love all people and let God handle judgment and all else. And just for the record, we are living in the new testament under the grace of God, for those of you who didn't know.
-
Luke Michael Weston
Well I don't think that's very nice!
-
Charles E Rogers
The Truth is hard to except in this world, which is control by satan and men and the truth will become even more harder to except in the coming months
-
Lionheart
Your comment about truth is actually fallacious because there is no demonstrable evidence that Satan is real, so suggesting something called satan is controlling anything is far from the truth, unless your claim can be substantiated with evidence of its existence/reality.
🦁❤️
-
Sherrell K Zitting
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1). Try to have the heart of a lion.
-
-
-
Minister Raymond Butterworth
Luke, just wondering, what do you not think nice?
-
Sherrell K Zitting
Ray's comment is actually quite nice. Read Luke, Luke (6:27).
-
Unfortunately, this behavior is a sign of the times as tRump and MAGA began to set the stage. Roe Vs Wade overturned, affirmative action, next will be same sex marriages and interacial marriges. Now we have "christian identity" legalized by the Mi. court, projecting whites as superior to all other races.
The supreme courts decisions are absolutely wrong, and unconstitutional. The parameter of nationwide absolutist laws obstructing freedom must be reversed. Adding new members , congressional oversight, removing justices,all to restore the court from the corruption, lying, and incorrect understandings must proceed immediately. The parameter of Global/National, freedom is at stake . The local /personal is also totally misunderstood and in danger.