A Christian student expelled for sharing his views on homosexuality won an appeal in his ongoing battle with the University of Sheffield.
The university booted social work student Felix Ngole from his master's course in 2015 after he voiced his sympathy for then-Kentucky-county-clerk Kim Davis. Davis refused to grant marriage licenses because of her religious objection the legalization of same-sex marriage. "Same-sex marriage is a sin whether we like it or not" Ngole wrote on Facebook, adding that "man's sentiments would not change [God's] words."
A 2017 High Court decision upheld the university's right to expel him after the university deemed his views on gays and lesbians derogatory. But now, a three-justice appeal panel sided unanimously with the 41-year-old student, granting him a new hearing.
Judgment Day
In their recent judgment, the three-judge appeals panel said that the Health and Care Professions Council does not prohibit the use of social media to share personal views and opinions. However, it does say that the school might have to take action 'if the comments posted were offensive, for example, if they were racist or sexually explicit.'
The ruling stated: "In the present case, there was positive evidence to suggest that the Appellant had never discriminated on such grounds in the past and was not likely to do so in the future (because, as he explained, the Bible prohibited him from discriminating against anybody)."
When he was originally dismissed, Ngole accused the university of displaying a "double standard". The university allowed a professor widely-known as an LGBT activist to chair the panel that removed him. Deputy High Court Judge Rowena Collins Rice eventually ruled in the university's favor. She stated that they must look at religious speech "in a regulated context from the perspective of a public readership."
But after hearing all the arguments, the Court of Appeals overturned the original ruling. They ordered a new hearing with a new panel - one that wouldn't be "flawed and unfair to the Appellant".
A Watershed Moment for Christians
Ngole insisted the ruling was "great news" for anyone who truly cares about freedom of speech. He said that God calls Christians "to care for and serve others, and publicly and privately we must be free to express our beliefs, especially when asked, without fear of losing our livelihoods."
The appeals panel stressed that the university "wrongly confused the expression of religious views with the notion of discrimination." That said, the court also found Ngole's argument that the university "had no business" interfering with his right to express his religious views, and how he'd carry on "whatever the disciplinary consequences" to be equally untenable.
But the panel's criticism of Ngole didn't stop the Christian Legal Centre that represented Ngole from taking a victory lap, hailing the landmark decision as a "watershed case for Christians." Said Christian Legal Centre CEO Andrea Williams: "Due to Felix's sacrifice, Christians and others now know that it is their legal right to express Biblical views on social media or elsewhere without fear for their professional careers."
Now, years later, Ngole will get a second hearing, where the school will determine if his religious beliefs will influence his care of LGBT individuals.
What do you think? Should Christians be able to express their views on gay marriage without fear of it impacting their career? Or could this decision further embolden those who hide behind religion to spread hate online?
85 comments
-
Lionheart
Everyone should be able to express their views in this country of freedom and liberty, whether they are religious or not.
?♥️
-
kimberly
Even me puddin? lol
-
Lionheart
Absolutely, Cherub.
?♥️
-
The Doctor
When we assume we can have an honest conversation about our differences of opinion with a zealot we are making a couple very dangerous mistakes. First we are elevating the beliefs and goals of those zealots to the level of civil discourse.Thats a bad idea. No its worse than a bad idea. That is morally abhorrent. If you are on one side of the table arguing that regardless of race,gender, sexuality, ability whatever.
And on the other side the person across from you believes that certain people are inferior and deserving of persecution and death as Kim here has for homosexuals, then whats in the middle?
Where do you compromise with someone who rejects the very concept of human rights? Perhaps you think you can persuade them of how wrong they are?
Thats where the second mistake comes in; assuming that the zealot sitting across the table from you is any less committed to their ideals than you are to yours.
Lots of people have this idea that people only disagree with us because they have not seen what we have seen, that they do not know what we know. That a zealot only thinks their religion is right and true because they have not gotten to know enough. That they only want to establish a biblical State because they just do not know any better.
And sure sometimes that is the case, people who have come to their senses and recognized that a book is just a book,
But more often then not we see through history this just is not true, from the inquisition, to the crusades, to holy wars and jihads and brutal colonization in the name of one god or another. There was no room for a high road to try and reason with those perpetuating these acts.
You do not defeat such by arguing with them, they have heard such arguments many times and will never be persuaded by them. They must be fought against. That does not always mean with violence, but sometimes it does. Some people will always find that abhorrent.
What it does mean though is they must always be actively opposed, working to thwart their attempts to accumulate power and influence.
If we do not resist evil we go along with it. We do not have to imagine how bad things under a zealot regime. we have seen it all before.
You cant put faith in the reason and humanity of zealots. If their reason and humanity functioned properly they wouldnt be zealots in the first place.
Being nice to them, engaging them in intellectual discourse and appeasing their desire to be an equal platform does not work. You have to resist them at every turn.To deny them the chance to be viewed as legitimate. Otherwise you are giving them what they want. You are giving in to evil.
-
Wanda
EVERYONE is allowed to express their views in this country of freedom and liberty, whether they are religious or not, even zealots. You can describe zealots anyway you want, but it is just your opinion while you clearly seek to stifle any dissenters. NO, it doesn't work that way.
The Bible is NOT just a book, it's first five volumes are a spoken transcripts of family history and 613 loving recommendations to the family. The other 61 volumes are commentary on those first five. You can try to minimize it's importance and disparage it's believers, but you will ultimately NOT be successful in your endeavor. Long after you are gone, every word in the Bible will remain important and your views will be forgotten.
Congratulations on your transparency! Your rhetoric is unreasonable and smacks of fascism.
-
kimberly
Wanda....the Bible is patriarchal. NOT familial. Big diff
-
The Doctor
So fun fact my above is actually a highly praised article written by a rabbi during the rise of the nazi party in response to a famous speech made by Prof Cadbury who said jews resisting the nazis only made things worse for themselves. I only had to change the word nazi to zealot and slightly rephrase a few sentences but ultimately it is the same statement and one must also admit that nazism is just another breed of zealotry.
I did this to test a theory and was right a statement made literally in opposition of the most infamous and hated fascists zealots in modern history is being called a fascist statement by those who feel it applies to them.
FYI the right to free speech is not a personal right concerning what you and I say to each other, its a right for citizens in general to speak out against the government to help resist would be tyrants. You know like how Cadet Bone Spurs Drumpf keeps calling those who call him out fake news. That is what the freedom of speech exists to protect people from, a president that seeks to become a tyrant.
Shutting down, and denying ignorant bigots a platform and denying them legitimacy is resistance of the non violent variety. Yet now that is being called as bad as those who use violence and intimidation to spread a message of hate based on bigotry a position that renders their views invalid and unworthy of any forum of debate.
-
-
Susan
The Bible was written and edited by men during a time when women were deemed sinful and were considered property. IT WAS NOT WRITTEN BY GOD.
The new testament was rewritten some where around 300 AD to include the concept of original sin when a pope kept having wet dreams.
I think if a supreme being - god, goddess whatever had written a text it would be filled with love, acceptance and FREE of any judgment.
-
Lionheart
You are right on, Susan. I really don't know what is so hard for people to grasp that. Indoctrination can be a real curse for many, clouding their ability to think clearly and beyond their piousness.
Having gone through recovery myself from religious dogma, I know it's not easy, but it is so worth it.
?♥️
-
kimberly
Quite the oppo9.....the bible is a book of condemnation to be used against humanity in the day of judgement.
-
kimberly
The bible is valid....religion which has taken it for their own agenda is not.
-
Lionheart
Yes, the Bible, Harry Potter, and Alice In Wonderland are all valid books. I've seen and read them. The Bible book is more gruesome than the others, and hasn't been written very well. Too many authors is the problem. The other two are much better for children to read and understand.
?♥️
-
kimberly
The bible does not say women are sinful. It is highly patriarchal but only from the perspective of salvation originating from THE Patriarch through men of faith to the faith of Jesus (NOT faith in Jesus), revealed to be the firstborn Son. One flesh....not master/slave.
-
-
-
-
Cynthia Kukler Smith
100%
-
Aron100
Actually Lionheart this all happened in the UK, the laws here are quite different when it comes to what is or is not considered hate speech.
-
kimberly
hate speech is protected speech.
-
Stephen Oder
You again? Are you trying to make trouble, or are you really this stupid? I just have this nagging feeling that it's both.
-
kimberly
I'm fellowshipping.
-
Lionheart
Praise be to the Holy Elf. Thank you Kim.
?♥️
-
-
Aron100
Perhaps down there in your swamp Kimberly, but not in the civilised world.
-
kimberly
The U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that hate speech is legally protected free speech under the First Amendment. The most recent Supreme Court case on the issue was in 2017, when the justices unanimously reaffirmed that there is effectively no "hate speech" exception to the free speech rights protected by the First Amendment.
-
Aron100
And again I bring your attention to the fact that this has nothing to do with US courts, it happened in the UK. There’s a big world outside the bubble you live in Kim, please try to keep up.
-
kimberly
That "big world" is a dangerous place Aron. Fortunately, we live here and don't have to be overly concerned about what happens in other locations. The miserable conditions around the planet are why people try to come here.
-
-
Rev. John D. Partin
Comrade Kimberly, just try walking through a black neighborhood shouting the hate speech of the N word and "I hate black people!" and see how "protected" your speech or you yourself are!! Try going into a synagogue and shouting "Kike" and other antiSemitic slurs and comments and see if your right to that hate speech is "protected" or the congregation there don't actually throw you out or beat you up and call the cops on you and have you arrested---for saying "protected speech"!! Try going into a Klan or Nazi Party gathering and shouting "Down with Hitler!" or "I love black people and Jews!" and see if even they think that your "hate" speech, to them, is "protected" and don't actually throw you out or beat you up and have you arrested, too, for "hate" speech against them!! The crazy man who shot up the synagogue in Squirrel Tree outside Pittsburg, PA was also voicing hate speech (with actions, not just words!), but the congregation and cops there didn't agree with him that his speech was "protected"!! There are just so many other examples of people's not being able to say and get away with saying whatever in the Hell they feel like saying to other people, no matter what the courts officially have ruled (since the courts and cops won't always or ever be with you to protect and save you when you say those things!!), for anyone to seriously believe or say that "hate speech is protected speech"!! Some people have to learn the hard way, though, and so go and find out for yourself if it's "protected" speech!!
-
-
-
-
kimberly
The guy wasn't spreading hate. That statement is a logical leap by the moderator.
-
Rev. John D. Partin
Any time someone is poking their nose into someone else's business, instead of minding their own, and commenting on how they live their life (so long as they aren't physically hurting or abusing someone), that person is practicing hate speech and deserves whatever beating or verbal assault they get for poking their nose in where it doesn't belong!!
-
kimberly
voicing one's convictions is NOT hate speech you dingle berry. and advocating physical attacks on those who do is the height of bigotry.
-
-
-
Carla Soderberg
In this distrust-filled political climate, LGBTQQ people are now targets for discrimination by "christians". My word for the "christians" is Religicist--meaning they wrongfully use their beliefs to discriminate in the same vein as racists. Their "morally superior" stance is wrong, vulgar, and evil.
Jesus, if he walked with us today, would have an LGBTQQ person or two following him as disciples. He most certainly not go into churches--unless the churches welcomed EVERYONE as members.
-
Carl Elfstrom
One or two, you say. He had twelve of them. They all left their wives to be with him. And they never wanted a woman again.
-
kimberly
Twisting the scriptures into BS is hardly a sign of credibility or cognitive ethics.
-
Carl Elfstrom
What scriptures? I was talking about that book of christian fairytales written by delusional schizophrenics.
-
Carl Elfstrom
Who's trying to be credulous or ethical? I'm just trying to get my point across, and you're doing a good job of paying attention.
-
-
-
-
Russ
This is neither homophobia nor a victory over “anti-Christianity.” It was a correction of a bad decision. Expressing a view is not hate, even if it is a negative view. I completely disagree with his views, but his words do not threaten the lives of anyone. Conversely, Christianity is not under attack in the West. Aside from a handful of counties, Christians enjoy the benefits of majority status. This was the right decision in a case that centers on a person’s views, not a government policy.
-
Carl Elfstrom
Only Christians think they're part of a majority. The rest of us know it isn't true. Most Christians, like most of the rest of us, don't preach their religion in public. That's the only reason why they aren't verbally attacked in this country. That's the majority. However, atleast a few of them have tried to preach to me, and I've always been quick to tell them where to shove Jesus, and his gay apostles!
-
-
kimberly
Nonsense....people don't give a sh*t about pervs unless and until those pervs get militaristic.
-
Rev. John D. Partin
Is your getting militaristic about your perversion of bigotry why people are giving a sh*t about you and opposing your nonsense, Kim?! It certainly is!!
-
kimberly
Responding to militant perverts by correcting their lies is my right. You should try it rather than spouting PC rhetoric.
-
Carl Elfstrom
Sounds like you've been finding more things to defend yourself and your twisted ways about around here lately, Kimmy.
-
Rev. John D. Partin
Comrade Kim, correct your own lies and militant perversions and clean up your own house first before you worry about anyone else's "lies" and "militant perversions"!! Didn't they teach you that in the Socialist Training Academy?! First remove the beam from your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye and let him who is without sin among you cast the first stone.
-
-
-
-
Carl Elfstrom
People who frequently talk bad about one thing in particular often have something to hide.
-
Carl Elfstrom
When people call others perverts, especially those who say it often, it usually means they think of themselves as perverts but don't want anyone to know it, so by calling others perverts they think they won't be thought of as being perverted, too.
-
Helen Brown
believe God loves all of us and if we are gay he loves us, people who have businesses should not be there if they can not serve all. God is our judge, not your fellow man, I know God loves me does he love you.
-
kimberly
Perverts are perverts dear.
-
Bill Fox
God's love is conditional. God loves people who obey his Law. (NASB) 1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
-
Lionheart
That's the problem with your god, he has one huge ego. "Do as you are told or else!" He's such a Dom!
I'm not impressed by what I've read about him. He has one huge anger management issue, and also needs to deal with his jealousy.
?♥️
-
kimberly
Does the clay tell the potter what to make Lion. The commandment is to love God. Not the other way around.
-
Lionheart
How can something that doesn't exist declare a commandment Kim?
?♥️
-
kimberly
Why would think you're noticeable enough to warrant a personal declaration of any kind from an entity powerful enough to create an entire universe?
-
Lionheart
Het, looking at your last post I want whatever you are drinking. ? It's not 5 o-clock here yet, but I'm up for it.
I'm actually more noticeable than your mythical deity. At least I'm messaging you on here which your very illusive god seems incapable of doing, so he can't be that omnipotent. Your usual fallacious statement that he created the entire universe is a bit of a stretch if he doesn't even know how to show up to set us all straight.
If you really need a deity try worshipping the sun, at least it shows up every day, unless you live in England, in which case you could worship the rain. Just a thought to help you get through life!
?♥️
-
kimberly
I worship the sun as the sun. That doesn't make it a deity
-
Lionheart
The sun has more validity to be worshipped than your very illusive deity because we know it's there, and bless its little heart, it shows up every day.
?♥️
-
The Doctor
Get it through your head, what you think or believe does not equal what every one else does. When you constantly push your views as the truth when there is nothing to support them as true you come across as a blind zealot bound by dogmatic thinking.
You also prove yourself a true traitor of the ideals that the U.S. of A. were founded upon. Oh and I am older then your Potter I am not clay, I am composed of the energy that gave birth to your pathetic weakling of a so called deity.
I am the Lord of Demonkind, The void before existences was our playground, the universe our game board, and the gods and worlds and creatures upon them our game pieces.
Deny me if you wish but it wont chalnge the truth that I am greater then your fangless cowardly baby killing deity.
-
-
-
-
-
Rev. Jim
Expression of a viewpoint is part of debate.Trying to impose your viewpoint on others is unacceptable. It can be a fine line depending on the situation.
-
kimberly
To all.....If you're offended by anything said on a site like this then you've got issues. I suggest getting a life.
-
Lionheart
Let me attempt to translate Kim’s comment into something a little more appropriate, and understandable. She sometimes finds it very difficult to say what she really means, bless her.
Anyone who disagrees with comments on this blog, we welcome your comments, and thoroughly appreciate the time you spend in responding.
?❤️
-
kimberly
OMG......was I speaking in tongues again Lion dear?
-
Lionheart
It's okay, his Holiness, the king Elf, has blessed me with the gift of translation. ?
-
-
-
-
-
John
Love thy neighbor..... still the best words to live by. A wise person once told me. "you can do anything you want in life just don't be an a**hole." KInd of her version of the golden rule.
-
Gar Reed
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:12); “Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18). Just 2 biblical references that might raise an eyebrow or two. The Bible is replete with these, smashing babies even.
-
Wanda
It's important to know which volumes are commentary and which ones aren't. Paul's writings are a collection of his letters written to specific communities and people. These were written from his viewpoint regarding issues those specific communities were facing. His advice was not meant to be literally applicable to all people, at all times in every place.
It's really important to know the historical basis for each volume and it's author, in order to appropriately understand and apply it's message.
-
kimberly
Wanda...you are correct about this passage...it's a shame you don't apply such good logic to those passages you do like.
-
-
-
Daniel
A friend of mine recently had a son who passed away. When talking to a Christian family member about the memorial service the non-christian mother said she didn't want the service to to turn into a sermon. The REAL Christian relative pointed out that regardless of her beliefs her, and her church ALWAYS respected the wishes of the family and that the basic Christian faith was about service to others- even if they weren't Christian. She also noted that though her beliefs were against LGBT practices their church had still performs LGBT weddings as a Christian act of service that other "Christian" churches in her town refused to do. For me, this shows that some Christians ARE able to not agree yet go beyond non-discrimination to actual help who they may disagree with. I wish more Christians could do the same.
-
pops
Does anyone really care about non-issues when the United States is being destroyed by the fool who can't shut his mouth?
-
Reb TK
Some of my Christian friends would say to "render unto Caesar" and "render unto G-d... ." et al. Sometimes we need to delve a bit deeper into the motivations of others and our own. Sometimes a picture says a thousand words, to wit: et tu Brute?
But, as a practitioner of Social Work for over 30 years, I can say that this young man has no future in our profession, and the school was right to question whether he was up to the standards of a social work professional, regardless of his personal beliefs.
If you don't like our professional standards, don't enter our profession. Don't make yourself out a victim. Stop trying to make a name for yourself until you've earned it.
Which reminds me of a story: because I always have one. Many years ago, I had a co-worker with similar attitudes as the young man in question here. He was always talking about his faith at work, and he was always in other peoples faces for an argument.
When he learned I was Jewish, he just couldn't let it go. He always wanted to question (aka for me to justify myself) and was always ready for an argument.
The fact that I was openly gay just egged him on harder...so to speak.
Finally the day came... and he confronted me in front of our co-workers : "Who do you (Jews) turn to as your personal savior?"
I said "Nobody... because we're the 'Chosen People. And you ain't."
Which shut his mouth until he was eventually fired for doing a crappy job.
I suspect the young man in this other debate will melt into the past as well... narcissistic, and no doubt "unsatisfied."
-
Secretary3rd
Walk into a gay bar and ask truthfully how many people in that bar are marry to a another sex! How many are fathers and mothers? The show of hands would disturb many church leaders since gays are parents Most fems in a marriage can wipe up a large cake with all the trimmings on it. I can get a great cake by going to a large supermarket and they will show their best in making one.
-
angel
I could care less what he thinks and what he spouts on social media. HOWEVER, here IS my concern. He is studying to be a social worker and they work in public services. Because his views are so strong, he may actually discriminate against gay couples when he enter's the work force.I would hate for him to abuse his power as a social worker and call CPS on a family simply because the parents are gay! or to deny services or help to a person in need because they are gay or support people who are. We already had this experience with a doctor who denied my daughter help because she is transgender. The most he did was give her a referral and that was ONLY because I threatened to report him to the state license board! But my daughter was on hormone therapy and had been for awhile and he denied giving her a medication bridge reguardless of the effects not having them would have on her. Again, I am a firm believer that you can believe whatever the hell you want, but if your in the health field and are unwilling to work with a specific group of people because of your own bias, then you have no buissness doing what you do. When your at work, your religious beliefs need to be left at home, and you need to do what you were hired to to...take care of PEOPLE!
-
Ed
The shortest book in the bible is a letter from Peter to a Christian slave owner, about owning his Christian slave. Paul does not say that Christians do not own people, what he says is how Christians own people. So if the bible [god,because supposedly he wrote it] got that wrong what are the odds the bible [god] got everything else wrong?
-
Lionheart
The Bible god, (which of course is many people writing what they believe the voice in their head told them, called schizophrenia) messed up in many places, but that was to be expected.
Amazingly, people were just as dumb as the authors because they even believed it, but they were illiterate anyway so relied on clerics to tell them what the Bible said, along with their interpretation, and that’s where another error crept in. If they believed what they were being told they were told it was the Holy Spirt confirming its truth, and that right there is the final nail in the coffin of indoctrination.
?❤️
-
kimberly
The holy ghost isn't God. It was the breath of holiness given to men to speak of God. It isn't given today....no reason for it
-
Lionheart
You are too funny Kim. You always brighten my day with your hilarious comments. You have seen way too many comedy shows.
?♥️
-
kimberly
And when he had said this, he BREATHED on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost (BREATH of Holiness):
-
Lionheart
???Stop it! Stop it! I can’t stop laughing. ???
-
-
-
-
kimberly
The word slave is only used twice in the Bible and it wasn't Peter who used it
-
Lionheart
Kim is right. The word used in the KJV for people who were owned as property was Servant. Same as slave, different name.
?♥️
-
kimberly
not quite right Lion. Servant in the Bible was an indentured servant and/or one who was made subject to another as punishment for a crime. There were no racial slaves in those days....most "servants" were of the same race as those to whom they were subject to. Big diff from what happened in the early days of the United States. And it was Christians who protested the racial slavery of those time leading up to the civil war.
-
Lionheart
I’m aware they were mostly of the same race, they were still, however, owned property, and they could be beaten with no repercussions as long as they didn’t die within the first 1 or 2 days. As designated by a very weird mythical god.
?❤️
-
kimberly
Lion. Don't be stupid. You've watched Django unchained too many times. And if you haven't you should. That's slavery as we think it. Not as it was with Israel. And consider who built the pyramids...until they dropped dead. Or Viking rowers who sat in their shit until their butts rotted off.
-
-
Lionheart
I merely state what's in the book you believe in Kim:
"And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money."
Exodus 21:20-21
?♥️
-
kimberly
wrong Lion...you attempted to equate that passage with racial slavery.
-
Lionheart
Wrong, no I didn’t. I never mentioned race at all.
?❤️
-
kimberly
Lion...I'm not convinced others here aren't thinking slave as in Django Unchained vs servitude as described in the Bible. The two are vastly different. One could be sold into servitude for not paying one's bills in those days. Had nothing to do with racial inequality and the morality of "human rights". You and the rest of these bozos were inferring that it did. I just hate it when people trying to insinuate today's PC culture into ancient civilizations.
-
Lionheart
I know you are not convinced Kim, so you'll just have to hate it and suck it up, because that's what it was. Slaves have always been treated badly no matter which generation they were born into. The sad thing is, your loving god approved of it, and listed the rules of the punishments/beatings. Keep apologizing for him Kim, but your brutal god not worth worshiping.
?♥️
-
kimberly
Silly Lion....tricks are for kids. God restricted inhumane treatment of not only servants but animals.....Even to the point of forbidding the ox to be muzzled as it ground grain.
-
-
-
-
Yes
No. Yes yes. No no.