Student Holds Up Sign That Says 'Make BYU Gay Again'
The school's stunning about-face on their acceptance of LGBTQ students sparked mass protests on campus.

Brigham Young University, the private, Mormon college based in Utah, can’t seem to make up its mind on whether or not it will accept LGBTQ students. Their total about-face on whether they will tolerate same sex relationships on campus has many of its LGBTQ students feeling both betrayed and exposed.  

"It was whiplash — total, complete traumatic whiplash."

Those words, spoken by a vulnerable 21-year-old bisexual student Tiauna Lomax, came after her fellow gay classmates celebrated changes to Brigham Young University's Honor Code that removed a clause prohibiting "all forms of physical intimacy that give expression to homosexual feelings" less than a month ago. That meant LGBTQ couples could now hold hands on campus, for example, without fear of retribution. The news emboldened Lomax to come out to her parents, relieved dating women would no longer get her suspended from the private university. "I felt like I had an institution that supported me."

Church Elders 'Clarify' Brief Tolerance

But BYU’s tolerance was short-lived.

More recent "clarifications" have since walked back those remarks, flaming on-campus protests and a larger rally in front of the church's headquarters in Salt Lake City, where BYU students chanted: "Let all students date!" while singing Mormon hymns.

Church Educational System Commissioner Elder Paul V. Johnson's statement reasoned as follows: "Same-sex romantic behavior cannot lead to eternal marriage, and is therefore not compatible with the principles of the Honor Code."

Except current and former BYU students had been given the impression that as long as gay couples followed Church chastity rules and didn't have sex outside a heterosexual marriage, they could openly date and show affection on campus.

That is no longer the case.

LGBTQ Students Consider Leaving

The university's run-around means more LGBTQ students might transfer out for good.

Summer Lee-Corry, a 21-year-old queer student who transferred to Utah Valley University last year, insists BYU was no longer "a healthy place" for her, what with fears she'd be reported to the Honor Code Office and punished for maintaining even platonic relationships with other female students. "I've had several friends die by suicide. If I had stayed at BYU, I would have been one of those statistics."

Lee-Corry still attends church, and she's made it a point to insist BYU's attitude toward students like her remains at odds with her Mormon faith.

"What I learned within the Christian religion was that Jesus sat with people who nobody else would sit with. How can we call BYU 'the Lord's University' when I know that Jesus would have been part of our protest, loving and accepting the queer students there?"

While Corry may have a point, the fact is the LDS Church has continued to ostracize the LGBTQ community, even while updating its own General Handbook to encourage "kindness, inclusiveness, love for others, and respect for all human beings" and allowing gay men to serve in senior church roles... on the condition they remain chaste.

Case in point: only this year, the Mormon Church officially severed its century-old relationship with the Scouts BSA, a move many believe had plenty to do with that group's decision to welcome transgender boys, as well as openly gay youth members and adult volunteers, to shore up its own dwindling membership.

What Will BYU Do?

But then, Brigham Young University is a private institution, technically free to enact whatever rules it feels are becoming of its members and in keeping with their faith. That also means its LGBTQ students are free to leave- something that probably won’t bode well for a church looking to remain relevant with its far more liberal and progressive youth.

That is the push and pull. Question is, will the LDS Church adapt to a changing society, or double down on its antiquated beliefs?

63 comments

  1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

    I find it extremely strange that people join religions and groups knowing full well what their stance is on homosexuality, and then once they join they now decide that the religion or group must change their whole belief system to accommodate the protestors.Just because the courts say you can get married does not make it a law that a group or business or school or religion has to change their rules to fit you. You dont like the rules of the religion or group, then dont join or dont give them your business. If you join or give them your business then you are nothing more then a hypocrite and as such should not be paid attention to to start with. KD Lang used the rules of Country Music to become famous and did a very good song called Constant Cravings which had country music playing it in the endless cycles or rotation. She had it all, fame fortune and a fantastic career. Then she suddenly decided that she was gay and then demanded the Country Music Association in Nashville at the Grand Old Opry, just give her a spot there when you have to EARN a spot there. And when they didnt she went all crazy accusing them of not jumping her to the front of the line just because she was gay now. Seems it backfired on her just like this is going to backfire on the supposed LGBTQ students there. And where is KD Lang? She isnt even cycled on Canadian Radio and they have a law in Canada that 45% of all music played on Canadian Radio must be by Canadian artists. This is no different then the Homosexual couples that sued cake makers instead of just going somewhere else, and they lost when it went to the US Supreme Court. The University should tell the LGBTQ students that they knew what the rules were before they came to the University, so its too late in the river to start whining about wanting to be on another boat.

    1. Brien's Avatar Brien

      I fully agree. Why would ANYONE wish to join any organization that openly states it is against their life style choices? They knew the rules of this PRIVATE organization up front. Do not join an organization if you dislike the rules.

      1. Timothy Ramsey's Avatar Timothy Ramsey

        You lost me at "life style choice",

        What age were you when you decided to be hetrosexual and cisgendered?

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          Ok PROVE IT what age were the people who suddenly decided to be gay or cisgendered? Were any of them below the age of 10? Nope not a one. Nice try but major fail

    2. Paolo Federico Manfrini's Avatar Paolo Federico Manfrini

      As a Libertarian minister, I fully agree with Daniel Gray. I would go even further: it is none of the government's business to meddle into the private lives of its citizens. No government should be involved in the matters of marriage. Marriage is a private contract between two (or more) individuals, and it should be administered by non-governmental organizations chosen by those individuals themselves, such as churches. If one church does not cater to same-sex couples, then that couple should go to one that does, and not force any organization to change its rules to fit their needs.

    3. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

      So, Daniel Gray, we meet again and I have to ask you, then, how would any injustices or inequalities in a school or university or anywhere else ever be addressed, challenged, and changed if only people who agree with and submit to and follow wrong policies in that organization should ever join that organization?!! The people who are already there aren't going to do it because they are just going along with those wrong policies; otherwise, they would have done it already! This idea of not joining an organization when you don't agree with their policies or intend to follow them would have kept black students out of segregated schools and black and other minority people out of workplaces and hotels and restaurants and sports, etc. that discriminated against them. Fighting against these wrong attitudes in and practices by people is the very sensible and necessary reason why people would join organizations when they don't agree with or intend to follow their policies and so that is why gay people would join Brigham Young University and other homophobic universities and organizations, despite knowing their bigoted policies beforehand, in order to challenge and change that wrong thinking!! That is how any change of any wrong thinking and elimination of evils (slavery, discrimination, anti-Semitism, racism, misogyny, etc.) ever happens!! What's wrong with that and why, according to you and your ilk, shouldn't that be happening?!!

      1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

        You need to answer the original question first. If the students knew what the rules were and had no intention of following them, then why should the university have to change to fit them? If the school or business does not follow your views then if you still get employed there or want to attend, you have no one to blame but yourself when it does not fit what you believe. Sorry but the kids are in the wrong here. And please dont start with the minorities crap as there are universities that are as a whole made up of minority women or minorities for the student body. And they have refused to let anyone else in that does not fit that outlook. So if you want to start with the name calling then you have already lost the argument.

        1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

          Daniel Gray, you wrote "And please don't start with the minorities crap as there are universities that are as a whole made up of minority women or minorities for the student body. And they have refused to let anyone else in that does not fit that outlook". First of all, your calling talking about minorities "crap" sounds pretty racist! Secondly, it isn't only black and other minority schools or women's responsibility to deal with and fight against racism, homophobia, and all other bigotry!! It is all of our responsibility and we can't pass the buck and evade that responsibility by pushing all of that off on to minority schools and tell them to do the whole job by themselves! Otherwise, there wouldn't have been integration of schools or the need for that. Thirdly, these schools' "refusing to let anyone else in that doesn't fit that outlook" (where that has actually happened and isn't just your skewed perspective and propaganda about them!!) doesn't validate your or anyone's doing the same back to them, tit for tat, and we should be operating on a much more mature level than that!! Two wrongs don't make a right. If they jumped off the roof stiff-legged, would you do the same? And all that!! As for answering the original question of why, if the students knew what the rules were and had no intention of following them, should the university have to change to fit them, it's because they are part of the student body and the university is for them, too, and not just for the loyal little clique of lapdogs, ass kissers, brown nosers, and suckups who wag their tails and obediently follow everything they are told and listen to their Master's voice and because it's the only way, as I wrote before, that injustices and wrongs and inequalities ever get corrected. Change is a good thing, not a bad thing, and variety is the spice of life, not the curse of life, as you and other conservatives "think"! I'm not going to start with the name calling because I can win this debate entirely by logic, reason, truth, and the facts!! So, if you start with the name calling toward me, then, by your own standard and rule, you have lost the argument!!

          1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

            Typical, instead of debating the issue, you start by calling names. And by doing so destroys whatever point you think you just made.

            1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

              You obviously just see "name calling" everywhere and in everything anybody says to you, as a means of avoiding considering anything that they have said to you and so not having to answer or respond to it, because I said absolutely nothing against you at all, except to someone who sees "name calling" in everything. That's just another evasion and smokescreen on your part. I've read your posts to other people here accusing them of "name calling", too, when they had actually said nothing about you, and this explains why you did that! Write back when you actually want to answer the points and questions in my post and not evade answering them again and hide behind more accusations of "name calling", which only exists in your own mind!!

              1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                Did you or did you not call racism, homophobia, and all other bigotry, and yet you get your knickers in a knot when I tell you not to call names? I am feeling sorry for you as common sense does not visit you very often

      2. Vern Dee Wall's Avatar Vern Dee Wall

        ??? But that is exactly what LGBTQ demand when they invade straight groups. "Do it our way or get lost!"

  1. Lori L Rich's Avatar Lori L Rich

    It plainly states in my King James Bible we are supposed to multiply and replenish the earth! So with that how are LGBTQ supposed to do that of their own bodies? America has became null to Gods word and ways! Yes God is love but he’s also wrath! His way is Not our way nor our thoughts as his! America needs to repent!

    1. Timothy Ramsey's Avatar Timothy Ramsey

      So... in your world, those who are sterile are not allowed to marry?

      I have some good friends (in Utah, of all places) who have 3 kids between them. Both are awesome mothers to their children, thanks to a local sperm bank.

  1. Rodney Knight's Avatar Rodney Knight

    They will continue on blindly as they always have just as most other churches have through history

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      I would rephrase that and say just like “all” churches have throughout history.

      🦁❤️

  1. JKM's Avatar JKM

    😂 The Bible isFake News

  1. JKM's Avatar JKM

    Can’t imagine why they would want to go there.

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      Because they believe in someone called Jesus Christ who they believe as their savior, like many Christians do that attend other parochial schools. All having different standards to attend.

      🦁❤️

      1. JKM's Avatar JKM

        You do not suddenly decide to be gay. What a ridiculous statement. And yes, she should have expected the ignorance and poor treatment she got from that crowd. It was brave of her to show that side of who she is, but c’mon.

        I do agree that someone in the LGBT should not expect a backwards, regressive, patriarchal bunch of ignorant hypocrites to change their views. It’s the same as someone living the conservative “Christian” lifestyle going to a Pride parade and expecting to have a float spewing all of their superstitious nonsense. If you decide to live the conservative “Christian” lifestyle, stay out of the pride parade. If you are LGBT, stay out of the conservative “Christian” churches.

        1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

          Yes I totally understand. Religion has a lot to answer for doesn’t it? Best to stay away from it!

          🦁❤️

        2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          Oh really? Tell that nonsense to Elton John who was not only straight the vast majority of his life and almost got married, who is now gay? Tell that to Anne Hasche who suddenly decided that she was gay so she could hang around with Ellen. Tell that to Melisa Raney a CNN reporter who didnt decide she was gay until she was well into her 30's And she ADMITS it. Or Demi Lovato or Dan Levy or Lil Nas X or Miley Cyrus or Sam Smith or Ellen Page or Julianne Hough or Sarah Paulson or SARA GILBERT and a host more of so called celebs who decided they were gay. And sorry but there is no medical proof or scientific proof of a gay gene so you cannot claim you were born this way. And in fact you actually have gay people admitting that they were not born this way https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20160627-i-am-gay-but-i-wasnt-born-this-way So the person making the idiotic statement of being born this way or that you cant choose to be gay is the one who is speaking from medical ignorance and a lack of scientific education. So where exactly does that leave you?

          1. JKM's Avatar JKM

            Medical ignorance? Such a funny little man you are. Elton John? Have you read his biography? He was pretending to be straight. The few people who said they “decided to be gay” aren’t really gay. It’s like Evangelical Christians saying they are Christians, then supporting Donald Trump. So, not really Christians after all, then. Or, does “Born Again” mean you were born that way. Born Again Christian, that is.

            Don’t forget this church supports all religions, so stop acting like you cornered the market on truth. You do you, and let folks be. Nobody has to live by your beliefs. Although, if someone decides to teach in one of your indoctrination centers, they should follow your rules.

            1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

              Ok then show us the gay gene. You cant because it does not exist.

              So keep on with your fantasy but dont try and claim scientific proof unless you CAN show your mythical statements are based in science.

          2. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

            Daniel Gray, and what about the alcoholics who deny their alcoholism most of their lives, despite its being seen very clearly by everyone else around them, and only come late in their lives to a realization and acceptance of their alcoholism and attempt to treat it and follow the 12 steps? Does that really mean that they weren't alcoholics before they admitted that about themselves, instead of their being alcoholics all along and just denying that to themselves?! What about racists who don't admit that they are racists or that there is anything wrong with their thinking, despite that being seen quite clearly by other people, too? What about the Pharisees, who didn't see or admit the truth about themselves that they were whited sepulchres and a brood of vipers, even though Jesus and, of course, other people, too, saw that that was the truth about them? What about all of the millions of other people down through history who haven't seen or admitted the truth about themselves until late in their lives or, very often, until their dying day and even died, still deceived about themselves? So, why would some gay people's not realizing and admitting that they were gay all along, out of this gigantic crowd and practice of the human race of others doing the same thing, until later in their lives "prove" to you that "they weren't gay for most of their lives, until they chose to be gay"?!! That certainly is an overwhelmingly lopsided perspective that you have on this matter and bias against homosexuality's being natural and genetic. Nobody would choose to be gay in this very homophobic society, where gay people are routinely insulted, ostracized, discriminated against, beaten up, and even killed, anymore than someone would choose to be Jewish in Nazi Germany, instead of being Jewish because they were Jewish and couldn't be anything else and being gay because they are gay and can't be anything else!!

            1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

              And exactly WHO were the ones that put the bottle to their lips to start with? Nobody held a gun to their heads and demanded they take the first drink or all the other drinks from then on. That was a choice they made. And again you can believe whatever helps you sleep at night but until you can come up with a gay gene proving that people are born that way, then its all for naught as nothing you say is backed by scientific or medical science. Complain all you want, but you have lost the debate before you even began

              1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                It doesn't matter that alcoholics decided to put the bottle to their lips first and kept themselves drinking. You really show no sympathy or compassion for alcoholics or others with problems by your comnent!! Your point was that gay people "weren't gay before they decided to be gay", not that somebody "held a gun to their heads and forced them to be gay or forced alcoholics to be alcoholics, and so on for everyone else". So, your remark was irrelevant. If gay people weren't gay before they "decided to be gay", then alcoholics and everyone else weren't what they were, either, before they "decided that for themselves", too, instead of that illness, quite obviously, not being their deliberate decision for themselves since, otherwise, you are lopsidedly singling gay people out and claiming something to be "true" for them that you don't claim to be true for anyone else: namely, that they aren't what they are until they admit it and recognize that about themselves, which is just ridiculous and bizarre for you to claim to "believe"!! You don't even consistently believe any of that because you don't believe that straight people are only straight or "become straight" when "they decide to be straight", do you? If you couldn't decide to be gay and gay people who "decide to be straight" are really only putting on a front and brainwashed and indoctrinated into doing so, then their homosexuality is as natural to them as your heterosexuality is to you and your claiming otherwise is just your operating on a double standard. That is a logical, consistent, and fair standard, instead of your double standard! The gay gene is proved by your not becoming gay, since you don't have it, and by gay people's refusing to stop being gay, despite all the acceptance, advantages, and safety that they would have if they did so!! Nobody would choose to be gay in this society. That isn't complaining, but merely stating facts!! Your not admitting to or even recognizing those facts don't make them unreal or wrong, but only you wrong for not doing so, and proves that you have lost the debate before you even began!!

                1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                  Then show the mythical gay gene. I wont hold my breath waiting for you as it does not and never has existed.

                  1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                    What use or good would it be trying to show you any evidence of the gay gene or prove it to you when you have already closed your mind to any possibility of its existence and refuse to consider any evidence of its existence at all and state dogmatically that "it does not and never has existed", anymore than it does to talk to anybody else about anything that they have irrevocably closed their minds against?!! Anymore than it does to talk to white racists about black people or Nazis about Jews or any other bigots about the objects of their bigotry and closedmindedness!! It is an exercize in futility and beating our heads against a stone wall!! If you have ever tried to reason with any of these other bigots and saw the impossibility of ever getting through to them, assuming that you have ever done that and don't agree with them, too, then you have experienced the same frustration with them that other people experience with you and got a taste of your own medicine!! I have already presented evidence of this gene to you, which would be accepted as evidence by everyone who hasn't permanently closed their mind against it!! It is already obvious to anyone to whom it can be obvious and if it isn't obvious to you, there is an obvious reason for that!! You're not able to get it or honestly admit it!!

      2. JKM's Avatar JKM

        But Lionhart, there are Christian schools that don’t subscribe to those silly notions.

        1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

          Yes, and I’m sure there are some that do. It’s just how religion is, depending on how orthodox the schools are. Some are quite rigid, and some not so rigid.

          🦁❤️

    2. Lori Mongillo's Avatar Lori Mongillo

      I can't imagine why either, JKM. If they reject these schools, over time the schools will begin to feel the stress and lack of money. Money will always turn things around.

      1. JKM's Avatar JKM

        What a lovely day that will be, Lori. Ignorance has a price.

  1. Vern Dee Wall's Avatar Vern Dee Wall

    Yawn.

  1. flugo's Avatar flugo

    In the above blog, Mormon student Lee-Corry suggests Jesus 'would have been part of our protest, loving and accepting the queer students there'. She'd better read her Bible! God finds most of the LGBTQxyz-er's llfestyle an abomination. He would definitely NOT have protested in support of their sinful, degrading and abnormal behavior. Jesus would have said, Repent!

    1. Gary Stephen Lowden's Avatar Gary Stephen Lowden

      Maybe when you adhere and follow ALL the laws in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, you can talk about one law. One that many believe was discussing Canaanite fertility and sexual rituals. Funny how Jesus, in his 3 year ministry, never saw fit to comment on same sex relationships.

  1. Daniel Ginther's Avatar Daniel Ginther

    Mormon student Lee-Corry was wrong as stated above, Jesus Christ would not have supported their protest. On another note, he would have loved them and lovingly taught them or would have told them to search the scriptures for Gods answer, of course the truth of Gods word is usually overshadowed by the word love and the distorted fact that most people believe that God created them which is wrong, he didn't, their parents did. The most important fact to highlight here is Suicide. Sadly many young men and women, boys and girls are committing suicide because of the fear and confusion homosexuality creates, this is real, I am a father who has dealt with the issue and had to deal with the most horrific of endings. Most of us parents will love and support our children with all our hearts, we don't want them to believe their gay, but we want them alive and well most of all. If you are a young man or women reading this and your fear of telling your parents your gay is literally killing you inside please take to heart what I have said and just tell them or write a note and tell them, believe me, your parents do not want you to live with such fear and confusion, save yourselves and and your own heart.

    1. Timothy Ramsey's Avatar Timothy Ramsey

      No, it's not "the fear and confusion homosexuality creates". It's the fear of hateful people, and the hateful organizations to which those people belong, and what they may do to you if you are found out.. It's the confusion of being told that they are sinners, they are going against God, and that their "lifestyle choices" are reason enough to deny them the same basic civil rights that everyone else has. That's what drives these poor people to the decision that the best way to their their suffering is to end their lives.

  1. John Roys Gile's Avatar John Roys Gile

    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is a peculiar church. There is a prophet and 12 apostles, there is the Book of Mormon, there is an effort to bring all people to Christ. An effort to be kind to all people of every belief may have been misconstrued as acceptance of conduct not compatible with church doctrine. That position was clarified. At first glance, that position may not be understood. Many comments are not happy with the doctrine. Rather than accept that position as unacceptable, a person might consider researching and find out for themselves what the church doctrine is. A personal belief should never be governed by group think.

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      Yes, as with all churches, they all seem peculiar with many strange doctrines, but that’s religion for you.

      🦁❤️

  1. Chad Beckwith Smith's Avatar Chad Beckwith Smith

    The Hiney is not a Vaginae it is as simple as that. God gave the Gays aids they did not listen now he has given the world Corona YES will you listen this time. No more pray, pretend and do nothing the Knights Templar are Rising up to enforce Gods nature be forewarned all of you if not Hell awaits you. If you do not post this then you will accept the sins of all those that could have been saved.

    1. Timothy Ramsey's Avatar Timothy Ramsey

      Just... wow. Remember to take ALL of your meds ON TIME.

  1. Richard Lee Cornell's Avatar Richard Lee Cornell

    LGBTQ students do not bred. No births and the church will not have the people to keep it alive.

  1. Daniel Ginther's Avatar Daniel Ginther

    My response is biblical, from a biblical point of view it’s right on. Yours is an opinion, everybody has an opinion, but there is only one truth. I agree there is confusion in being told they are sinners and God hates them, that is a fact I know to well. That response in propitiated by doctrinal error on both sides, the LGBT crowd and the religious ‘right’. The laws of Moses ended with Pentecost, those who don’t understand the Administrations of the Bible are wrong from the get go. Jesus Christ put an end to the law and summed it up by saying “ Love your neighbor as yourself “ Fear, confusion and hatred are all spiritual matters that come from Satan. Rightly divide the word of truth and there is no error, but the majority which includes most reading this will not even know what that means. And there you have it.

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      Yes, your response is purely biblical and so has no credibility whatsoever, but thank you for your response.

      🦁❤️

      1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

        He has as much if not more credibility then you ever will lionhart.

  1. Daniel J. Trebas's Avatar Daniel J. Trebas

    Okay, first off, the article says that the mormons allow gay men to be high ranking leaders ad long as they live a "chaste" life. So apparently they AGREE with someone being LGBTQ as long as they're being "chaste" - whatever that means. Soooooo, once again we have would-be leaders telling people, "Do as I say, but not as I do". I thought this problem was due to the customary dominance of the patriarchy mind-set. But let's not forget Utah just changed their laws to allow plural marriages. Well...if every "man" had 2 or more wives then there would have to be at least twice as many women than men. But there isn't. So only the "elite" "men" could have all the women. What would the rest of the men do? Watch? Play with themselves or eachother? Or maybe convert to being a "celibate" catholic priest? Anyway, some gay men are allowed to be "chaste" mormon leaders; I guess because they have enough "pull" with the elitists hiding behind the fact they have a penis. Another example of rampant hypocrisy that is easily hidden by just focusing on whether the bible approves or not of people who are part of the LGBTQ community - which is also a part of ALL of our community. So try following the Christ example of loving your neighbors, whether or not you agree with them.

  1. Carl James Thomas's Avatar Carl James Thomas

    First of all Jesus Christ does not condone it there same-sex marriage as he said in the scriptures he did not come to change the laws of Moses he come to fulfill them Furthermore homosexuality , in the eyes of God is murder because you are taking the seed of man which is supposed to be put into the belly of a woman to give birth to a child For those who can have children which is clearly dictated in Matthew is to leave his mother and cling unto his wife not his husband and two flesh shall become one flesh meaning having a child Blessed are those who cannot Because of impotency

    So every time you spit your seed you are stopping a child from being born there for in the eyes of God you are a murderer And God does not condone murder

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      Thank you for your comment, it is of course a fallacy, but that’s religion I guess, if you want to believe it.

      🦁❤️

  1. Nicholas J Page's Avatar Nicholas J Page

    The Mormon church are a strange organisation they dress in smart suits and try to convert you to their church.God loves all mankind what ever you are gay, straight LGBT in fact when I was doing RE at school back in the 1960s genders were never discussed.Or thought about.So as I say the Mormons do try and turn you As a minister myself we doint preach or make Judgement.I love all my friends male or female or what ever gender.so what does that make me and I m straight and married with children and A granddaughter and great nephew

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      Every religion tries to convert you, no churches have any exceptions. Fortunately, people are starting to wise up to the fallaciousness of religions. Logic and reason for the educated will always prevail.

      🦁❤️

  1. Shawn Allen Hank's Avatar Shawn Allen Hank

    Greetings,

    Still arguing over man's multiple interpretations of God's Word are we? There is not anything else happening in the world that has our full attention, and should take priority...guess not. Well as a man with a Bachelor's of Science in Accounting, we had to learn all about different business entities like, in this case, nonprofits. Colleges and Universities also have governance areas with their state and at the federal level as well. Since BYU is a Private university, the students are subject to their regulations. So, it does not matter how you identify. If BYU would restrict or not admit certain individuals on the basis of how they identify, then a lawsuit could rightfully be filed.

    If we look at only the facts here, then we see a restriction on pda or public displays of affection. Most military bases all over the United States has pda restrictions. Uunfortunately, pda restrictions are not grounds for lawsuits. Therefore, BYU is able to implement policies that are in compliance with the United States Code of Law. The right answer was stated above. If you know the University is Supposedly Christian, then do not apply for acceptance. Any secular college or university would be a better fit in this case.

    The confusion here is that many churches have become or adopted secular views to keep current with the times. It is on the secular conversion of churches apostle Paul would vehemently disagree. Paul authored Romans and Galatians. One only needs to consider those two letters to see how Christians are expected to be. One cannot be walking in the Spirit if they are hanging on to walking in the flesh. A transformation from the world is expected to occur. The transformation from the world enables one to conform and accept the Word, but the heart, mind, body, and soul needs to be saved, Spirit-filled, submit to the Word, receptive to sanctification, and for believing in Christ one will suffer. The secular world and subscribers like the suffer part. Yet, every secular civilization fell into financial irresponsibility, homosexuality, arrogance, tyranny, slavery, avarice, and malevolence.

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      Let’s not forget that your mythical god advocated slavery, but thank you for your comment. Christians might get something from it.

      🦁❤️

      1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

        And lets not forget Lionhart that you have yet to prove that God is mythical

  1. Darryl Mizer's Avatar Darryl Mizer

    Comment has been removed.

  1. Darryl Mizer's Avatar Darryl Mizer

    IMO, Religion is to improve my life, not to condemn others.

  1. Darryl Mizer's Avatar Darryl Mizer

    As a retired psychologist, I'm firm in my belief that homosexuals are NOT sinners. Sexual orientation is biologically determined. homosexuality is an unalterable aspect of their identity. (Scientific American). Bible references to Sodom and Gomorrah differ widely. Actually Sodom is a mountain about 30 miles away. Sodom means salt and was referred to in many instances. Too, it was common for male workers to sleep separately from the women. Even this could have been misrepresented since virtually no one could read or write. Consider the time period.

    I am a Progressive Revelationist. The things that God reveals to humanity are not all given at once. His revelation is being revealed in stages. This is known as progressive revelation. This is my reason that homosexual-ism is not a sin but a natural occurring part of life.

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      Thanks Darryl. I’m just wondering if you have a particular god in mind that you believe is revealing things to humanity. Does it have a name? Just asking?

      🦁❤️

      1. Darryl Mizer's Avatar Darryl Mizer

        Nope - take your pick!

        1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

          It’s hard to choose. There are so many that mankind has created. I think I’ll pass.

          🦁❤️

    2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

      Ok then if it is biological, then there has to be a gene that causes it. So where is it? Science says it does not exist. Medicine says it does not exist...and yet you do. So if it exists then you should be able to show the gene itself...right? I wont hold my breath waiting

  1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

    What use? it w2ould be a medical miracle since nobody in the medical field has found your mythical gay gene. Nobody in the scientific field has found it either. Seems it does not exist. SO you can use whatever you want to sleep at night, but I would bet my whole fortune that I will never see a gay gene or it will never be proved to exist. But if you are so sure that it exists, then PROVE IT!

  1. Darryl Mizer's Avatar Darryl Mizer

    Hi Daniel, The studies I have read distinguish differences in the genetic makeup of all of us. The population we are commenting on here have 1 less chromosome/gene than do. I refer to Google Scholar containing dissertations and other peer reviewed works. Even without respect to research and studies I don't understand why being gay is a sin. Please don't hold your breath. . . . .

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