The guest sermon below was submitted by ULC minister Stephen Baker. All ULC Ministers are invited to contribute their own sermons for consideration/publication. To submit a sermon, please email it to sermons@ulc.org.
Note: following the publication of this sermon, we received another sermon in direct response to these arguments. That post can be found here: In Defense of Pride: A Biblical Response.
Everywhere I look, all I see is people and places supporting Pride month.
The other day I even turned on the Disney channel (which is supposed to be for little kids) and there it was a big banner on the screen supporting pride month, so I quickly turned Disney off and went to Paramount – only to find a whole channel list with nothing but Pride-related movies on it.
This made me so sick that I almost deleted them all off my Roku, and I still may. I cannot even go on Facebook without seeing this stuff. My own little town is even having a festival for just these people this month. This has really made me so upset that it made me sick. We are not just talking about these people committing or supporting one sin – it is several.
So, I prayed, read my Bible, and talked with God about as to how I should tell people about how wrong this is. First I am going to list the sins involved, then we will look at each one and what the Bible says about them. The sins are as followed: fornication, gay, pride, adultery, mocking God with the symbols, and sexual immortality.
Let’s look at the first two. Fornication (having sex without being married) and homosexuality.
The Bible says in Leviticus 20:13 – If a man also lay with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind
Leviticus 18:22 – Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Romans 1:26-27 – For this cause, God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature.
1 Corinthians 6:9 – Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.
Next, let’s look at what the Bible says about pride.
James 4:6 says God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. When you see the pride signs and banner, you will see rainbows as their sign. This is mocking God’s promise to us to never flood the earth again as it says.
God spoke unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying in Genesis 9:8-15:
And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you; 10 And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth. 11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there anymore be a flood to destroy the earth. 12 And God said, this is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: 13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. 14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud.
Next, what does the Bible say about adultery?
- Luke 16:18 – Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
- Leviticus 20:10 – And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
- Galatians 5:19 – Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness.
- Hebrews 13:4 – Marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge. Last but not least is sexual immortality.
- The Bible says in 1 Corinthians 10:13 – There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
- Matthew 5:28 – But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
- Ephesians 5:5 – For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
- 1 John 1:9 – If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
- Hebrews 13:4 – Marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
- Revelation 21:8 – But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
- Proverbs 6:32 – But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.
- Matthew 5:28 – But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
- Matthew 19:9 – And I say unto you, whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
So, what can Christians do about Pride month? There’s nothing to do but pray for these people, let God's message be heard, and love them as God commanded us to love one another.
121 comments
-
Joy
“These people”? You still don’t get it.
-
SueW
That was my first reaction. Anytime you reduce a group to “these people,” you start off wrong and go downhill from there.
-
Joy
Totally agree with you.
-
-
-
Minister Wilson
Greetings,
The one thing that the article misses and this tends to be a theme among christian apologist. "Why, should anyone care what the christian bible or any other religious text has to say"?
Surely, I say unto you'll (pun) if someone were to go off spouting what the Quran, Buddha, Krav Mega or anything else, there has to be some underlying reason or rational for placing emphasis on the wisdom of those words.
If the same or similar text talks about diversity, inclusion, and equality, it would be more in-line with how others would like to be treated. If however, if it lays out instructions, for where to buy slaves, places others, like women, in an inferior social position, criticizes consensual human sexual relations without "reason", just because it says so, then it is simply just an opinion. Nothing more nothing less.
In other words, just because someone is claiming that this is what god says, does not mean what that god is saying is accurate or true, or in the best interest of humankind.
For example, if your god tells you to kill others, it can not be used as a credible defense in a court of law.
Why? Because when someone's beliefs infringe on other people's freedom that may or may not share those same beliefs it is no longer a religious expression of personal freedom but a misguided edict based on someones mis-interpretation of their own views.
Religion has a place for an individual but it appears that for some "believers" that is not enough, because they feel that everyone should feel and act the exact same way they think they should.
This argument is not a sustainable, nor should it be....
So for anyone responding to this post, please answer "why" a christian should follow what the Quran says, or vice versa, if you cannot answer that, then kindly and quietly just move on, thank you. (ignoring does not count either)
Take care
Minister Wilson
-
Rev. MichaelRS
From a judeo-christian point of view one cares about what the scriptures say if somebody else is saying they too are of that faith but are acting in a certain way that is contrary to the first persons or groups understanding of those scriptures.
In particular to the discussion here, if one says they are a Christian but are practicing homosexual there are a number of other Christians that would have issue with that because as far as their concerned such practices are contrary to the scriptures of both the Old and the New Testaments.
As to your final question; Muslims believe that you should follow the Quran because it's the final revealed word of God and mainstream Christians (generally) believe you should not because that is simply gross heresy that is inspired by other than God. Pretty much Holly also feel about LDS and such.
Also, if one is an atheist or perhaps an agnostic the whole point is moot. However within said judeo-christian scriptures, as with most religions, the scriptural writings are all the faiths have to determine in their belief system what is the will of God.
But if one rejects that outright there's no point in having any discussion. The discussion would end as soon as the one party said, "IF God exists at all, I don't believe your scriptures are His divinely inspired word revealing to us His will."
The other thing people of Faith have issues with is that the alphabet community is not content simply to be accepted on a tolerated sort of level as they first proclaimed when this began all began a few decades ago.
That attitude has shift 180° to the point where if you yourself are not marching in a pride parade waving a rainbow flag or you are objecting to your children being forced to participate in pride events, celebrating other people's take on gender & sexuality, then you are just a hateful bigot.
This Pride stuff has become a new "religion" that people are being forced to participate in and understandably they are reacting very poorly to that.
-
Minister Wilson
Hello Rev. MichaelRS,
I appreciate your response,
And, while I tend to agree somewhat with your response to my question, it appears as though you may be still missing the point of why I asked it.
Are christian views about Pride Month relevant? Or let me put it another way. Should we get the opinions of Jews, Muslims, or atheists about Christmas, what would be the intrinsic value or significant insight from individuals that don’t participate in the christian faith?
Also, what you said here;
“The other thing people of Faith have issues with is that the alphabet community is not content simply to be accepted on a tolerated sort of level as they first proclaimed when this began all began a few decades ago.”
Is problematic and indicative of the greater issue at hand...
How can anyone say on the one hand that a group is “accepted and tolerated” and then go on to criticize them on the other hand?
For example, those [christians] want to be accepted and tolerated, but now they want the government and each business to recognize their holiday with time off for employees, vacations, and decorations, etc.
Some people are getting sick and tired of this christian celebration shoved down their throats, so perhaps we should start boycotting stores that accept and tolerate this false event.
Does this sound like a dispassionate, accepting, and tolerant person raising this issue?
Take care,
Minister Wilson
-
Rev. MichaelRS
Well, I guess you would have to add Anheuser-Busch and Target, the Dodgers baseball team and the NHL if Christian (are other people that are conservatives of other conservative faiths) are relevant. Apparently they didn't seem to think so initially, but have apparently since changed their minds.
As to what I said about the alphabet community just wanting to be accepted and tolerated, you cut off the main point that followed. And that is it is now it's to the point that if you are not wholeheartedly and actively supportive of them you are a bigot and obviously wish them harm or even death. Particularly if you are against the sexualization of elementary school children. That is ridiculous.
Even if some people don't accept them, the vast majority we're condemned to adopt a philosophy and live and let live right up to the point of the more recent radicalization over the last few years and involving children in their gender ideology. Personally I have no idea why any of the other letters follow LGB because they actually have little or nothing in common with each other.
And let me make clear something before we go any further this is not about me hating gay people or anything like that. Two year older suster, in the early 80s before it became vogue was a bi, I guess you would say questioning, individual and I was the one person she felt she could talk to about such things. Unfortunately she was never able to settle down and resolve the issue within herself before a drunk driver took her.
Also my best female friend for over two decades, something that my girlfriend over that period of time didn't quite understand, who I worked with in both the private and public sectors, was 110% lesbian. And not really a lipstick lesbian if you know what I mean. And when same-sex marriage finally became legal in California I was a groomsmen that her wedding to her long-term partner. And she too thought these public displays were nonsensical did more damage to the cause and acceptance of the gay community and so forth then it helped. Anyway, moving on.
My point is you can be accepting and tolerant of some things and not others. If this was a like parade celebrating heterosexuality in the same manner I would have the same view. And considering a bit of my background, anybody who knows me would laugh anybody else off the face of the Earth who called me a prude over such matters. To repeat myself I just think such decadent and hedonistic public displays are unwarranted.
As to your point about Christmas, well there are practical reasons why governments have the holidays that they do. Look at New Year's I'm sure that it became a holiday because a large percentage of the workforce wouldn't bother show up on New Year's Day after having celebrated the night before so might as well just make it practical and make it a holiday and add it as a benefit.
Same goes for Christmas. Now personally I don't think any religious holidays, including christmas, should be taxpayer paid time off. But it became a holiday because the vast majority of people in this country wanted it that way. And my fellow Jews, when I was strictly jewish, had no problem working that day and getting compensated with the double time or whatever other benefit you got paid for working or taking the day off and getting paid for it. They weren't getting paid for missing work on any Jewish holidays so they just looked at it as kind of offset compensation.
It's why Hanukkah became more important in Western Society than it really is as far as a Jewish holiday goes. It's close proximity to Christmas when all the little Christian children are getting presents but what do Jewish kid gets? Not much. So it's become a little more important for the children as far as gift-giving goes.And then we can talk about MLK Day and Juneteenth. So Society does morph.
However some progressions are better than others And I and others with my belief system, find nothing positive about the decadent displays in Pride parades and other like related celebrations the Prime Focus of which is one's sexuality
-
Rev. MichaelRS
If there's a way to edit ones comments after the fact to add something one forgot I don't know what it is. So I'll add it here in reference to Christmas as a holiday or celebration.
Now we know that it is probably not when Jesus was born and as far as it being a holy day goes I have issues with that because, As far as I'm concerned the only one that can make holy days is God and I have yet to find any scriptures where God declares the birth of Jesus to be a holy day. But that is a whole other issue.
The point here is that Christmas, having first been established some 1,690 years ago, is not a Johnny-come-lately celebration that defies MANY hundreds of years of cultural and societal understanding and norms.
-
Minister Wilson
First off, I’m sorry to hear about your sister losing their life to a drunk driver...Moreover, your involvement in your friend’s wedding displays a sense of bonafide that most traditional, close-minded conservative folks rarely express.
Yet, in this sense, it may be true that all roads lead to China regarding various forms of bigotry within the context of ;
[having and expressing strong, unreasonable beliefs and disliking other people with different beliefs or a different way of life:]
which you and your friend raise concerns about others’ way of life. A person does not have to be a bigot and still have bigoted views and ideas. Just like a person doesn’t have to be a racist to spout right-wing racist talking points, as shown here;
[Well, I guess you would have to add Anheuser-Busch and Target, the Dodgers baseball team, and the NHL if Christian (are other people that are conservatives of other conservative faiths) are relevant. Apparently, they did not seem to think so initially, but have apparently since changed their minds.]
This is a faulty premise;
Because You or I have no idea what might be in those people’s heads or what has motivated them to feel comfortable voicing opposition to equal rights, perhaps, one of the crowning achievements of the Trump administration is making displays of intolerance and bigotry more acceptable publically. Just because those people said nothing before does not mean they didn’t harbor the same opinions they are expressing now.
Additionally, you state that;
[As to what I said about the alphabet community just wanting to be accepted and tolerated, you cut off the main point that followed. And that is it is now it’s to the point that if you are not wholeheartedly and actively supportive of them you are a bigot and obviously wish them harm or even death. Particularly if you are against the sexualization of elementary school children. That is ridiculous.]
Ya, I heard your main point;
And I am currently unaware of anyone being forced to participate in a pride parade, so I would like to hear about it; however, you also mentioned the right-wing distorted “sexualization” talking point most conservatives like to spew as a legitimate concern.
Sexualization or ;
[the act of endowing with sexual characteristics or of excessively emphasizing those characteristics]
Is a right-wing problem that right-wing political pundits have ginned up. K through 3 graders were never being taught about gender or sexual orientation in Florida, but that was not Gov. DeSantis’s point to create a host of strawmen laws; it is a political tactic; same goes for Critical Race Theory, Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, environmental, safety, and Governance as well.
All these dribbling amounts to nothing than ring-wing conservative talking points that serve as a liberal boogeyman in order to justify a lopsided upside-down view of the current sociopolitical environment.
Riddle me this;
The roots of the gay rights movement go back to the early 1900s when a handful of individuals in North America and Europe created gay and lesbian organizations such as the Society for Human Rights, founded by Henry Gerber in Chicago in the 1920s.https://www.history.com/topics/gay-rights/pride-month Also, in June 2000, President Bill Clinton officially designated June as Gay and Lesbian Pride Month in recognition of the Stonewall Riots and gay activism throughout the years. A more-inclusive name was chosen in 2009 by President Barack Obama: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Pride Month. https://www.history.com/topics/gay-rights/pride-month
How is it now, after all the unconstitutional laws and restrictions and religious warnings of fire and brimstone for homosexual activities, now somehow “kids” are the genuine concern here?
Absolute bullsh%$t; not one child on this planet was born “religious,” but kids are born gay every day, not made gay. If we cannot adequately educate children on this fact, then children will pay the price.
Other people and I are sick and tired of jews, christians, musilims, or any other religions thinking that they have more “rights” than other groups of people in a secular society. So, more children have been killed by guns than by drag shows, so if this does not fit an ideological political narrative, I’m at a loss.
However, with your experience and upbringing, I would have hoped you would not be so gullible to all the right-wing hype and magical thinking.
Take care, Minister Wilson
-
Rev. MichaelRS
I'm going to answer you by posting this video.
https://youtu.be/YysgbnBohhc
This liberal lesbian woman and conservative gay man disagree with each other on a number of subjects but they've come to be of nearly one mind in this regard and 95% of their views reflect my own.
If anybody comes across this and bothers to watch it I hope they watch the whole thing for context. It's really not that long.
And they don't even have to watch it they can just plug in their earphones and listen as they go about doing other things. But I hope they hear all of it and not stop at the first thing they disagree with and start yelling.
The bottom line is that this whole business has gotten ridiculously out of hand. Yes, live and let live but stop dragging me and mine into *your way of life and demanding that I celebrate it.
- "Your" meaning people in general, not Min. Wilson in particular.
-
Minister Wilson
Rev MichaelIRS,
I had a chance to watch the video interview twice, and I appreciate the resource and the ability here to comment on its contents.
Both individuals Douglas Murray and Julie Bindel have interesting points of view, however this particular discussion is more or less an issue with generational differences than credible threats posed to effect the health and safety of American society.
While I understand how societal environments tend to change over time both speakers are guilty of the "pot calling the kettle black"...
That involves, a situation in which a person accuses someone of, or criticizes someone for, something that they themselves are guilty of...
Moreover, Mr. Douglas displays a fundamental miss understanding or intentional ignorance about "Transsexual" psychology and its distinction between gay men and transsexual women.
For example, in time slot 5:43 Douglas references his views about the mysterious "gender unicorn nonsense". Yet, modern research in psychology and biological sciences have shown that individuals do suffer with gender dysphoria.
Gender dysphoria might cause adolescents and adults to experience a marked difference between inner gender identity and assigned gender that lasts for at least six months. The difference is shown by at least two of the following:
A difference between gender identity and genitals or secondary sex characteristics, such as breast size, voice and facial hair. In young adolescents, a difference between gender identity and anticipated secondary sex characteristics.
A strong desire to be rid of these genitals or secondary sex characteristics, or a desire to prevent the development of secondary sex characteristics. A strong desire to have the genitals and secondary sex characteristics of another gender. A strong desire to be or to be treated as another gender. A strong belief of having the typical feelings and reactions of another gender experience;
Gender dysphoria may also cause significant distress that affects how you function in social situations, at work or school, and in other areas of life.
Gender dysphoria might start in childhood and continue into adolescence and adulthood. Or you might have periods in which you no longer experience gender dysphoria. You might also experience gender dysphoria around the time of puberty or much later in life.
This is not a condition where someone just wakes up in the morning to decide to be the opposite sex and to characterize it as such ignores what we know and understand about these sufferers.
Therefore, it is different from just being "gay" do you understand. So, I found the interview interesting but also begging the question and accusing one side of doing the same thing they themselves are doing. I have the unique position of understanding what is current medical knowledge and political or generational biases.
Please tell me if you believe that "Critical Race Theory [CRT], Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion [DEI], Environmental, safety, and Governance [ESG] , are the impending threats to American society as they have been proposed to be.
Because this public discussion against LGBTQ + pride specifically is also suffering from the same types of mis-information, ignorance, and directed rage that oftentimes misses the mark for serious debates regarding an individual's health.
Take care,
Minister Wilson
-
Rev. MichaelRS
First off I forgot to thank you for your condolences regarding my sister. Obviously with some years ago but everyday I miss her.
Also you took so much time and effort to respond in detail and I appreciate that and I read every word. So I don't want you to think I am disrespecting you or yiur efforts by not responding in kind.
It's just that I spent the greater portion of my adult life writing detailed lengthy papers or reports related to my job that writing extensively these days now that I am long since retired holds less appeal for me than it used to. Especially on a subject like this where I'm fairly sure neither one of us would be able to convince the other in person much less through these writings.
So with that in mind I will simply refer you to the lectures or teachings of Dr Jordan Peterson on these subjects as I am pretty much in full agreement with his positions on these issues and he has the ability to outline them with far greater structure and clarity than I do.
Hope you're not offended by my lack of a more detailed personal response.
-
Minister Wilson
Rev. MichaelRS,
I appreciate your response and I have taken no offense, so no apology is necessary.
When we suggest that people should educate themselves it often poses a real danger because everyone has fundamentally different levels of base line knowledge and critical thinking skills.
Plus, our society and culture are more supportive of individual feelings and opinions out of a sense of loyalty to political ideology over facts and evidence.
So, figures like Dr. Peterson are on occasion wrong and politically or ideologically driven which could create some cognitive biases, for consumers of his information when taken as a whole.
In other words, consumers become unaware of what they don't know, but still feel confident about what little information they do have as being right or correct.
This is best characterized as the Dunning Kruger Effect, and I have provided a link for you here
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FGnb2lgPBA]
When you have a chance please look over this short introductory video which explains this phenomenon well.
My goal here is not to convince other people but to present my thoughts and concerns in a constructive manner and challenge preexisting conclusions.
However, as the adage goes [you can lead a horse to water but cant make it drink] the same is true for us as well. You are the only one that is capable of changing your own mind.
And this brings us back to my original point;
"Why, should anyone care what the christian bible or any other religious text has to say"?
Especially about these matters of sex what "authority" does the bible have over anyone else's life?
So while some might believe these words are holy or special remember priest and pastors are not immune from sexual misconduct, which one would expect that they should be, if their personally held beliefs were in fact, true.
Take care,
Minister Wilson
-
Rev. MichaelRS
Thank you for your response. I have not looked at the video yet but I will do so I just have a moment here to respond to your question near the end.
Well, obviously, from the believer's perspective, the Bible is THE authoritative source that they have on how God wants them to live their lives. Just as obviously that point is moot or no point at all.
So then we move on to the more secular concept of manners. I once heard a definition of manners that manners is the consideration of others.
Now of course we live in a free country and to a point anyone is free to behave how they want, but is it good manners to publicly behave in a way that is insulting or distasteful to others?
Should this be part of a "family event" as it was billed?...
https://youtube.com/shorts/c5_p5CLFNwM?feature=share3
Should young children be taught anything about sex and sexual relationships in elementary school by the school system that is teaching values opposite of those at home?
So in my opinion the "caring" is another way to express having consideration and regard for other people's feelings and respecting the rights of parents to raise their children as they wish.
You know Biden at some pride event at the White House in part of his speech is said they're all our children. No they're not. You are the government, you are not their parents.
So yeah you can freely say I don't care what your Bible says I'm going to live my life the way I want. But I don't believe that means I don't care what your Bible says, I'm going to try to convince your child to live their life the way I want.
-
Minister Wilson
I can appreciate your thoughts, but as a society we really need to start evolving and growing up.
Is sex something that biological humans do? is sex something bad ot taboo about loving relationships?
Again, there is this tendency to confabulate life style differences (sexual orientations) with sexual activity (having sex).
Is a teacher talking about "sex" if they say George Washington is married to Martha Washington? Or this man is married to that man?
Is marriage now a taboo topic? is it referring to their activities in the bedroom? So, how has this calculus changed when we are referring to couples of the same sex?
It is not that people care or don't care about the christian bible it is they don't want the christian bible to determine what is "appropriate" and what is not appropriate based on that book, or any other religious text, in a free-secular society.
If you don't want to marry the same sex then don't...
If you don't what an abortion then don't get one...
If you want to use christian feelings or their "interpretations" of facts, I am not interested, and am growing increasingly more frustrated by the day whenever claims such a god this or god does that are used as if these thing are factually true as reality...with no shred of physical proof.
I am quite sure you would not want to live under Taliban rule, well a christian Taliban is no different...my friend.
This is not a theocracy, the government is not a church, it is a collection of people that are usually ungoverned.
If parents don't want their children to learn about something that offends them then there are private school options. But no parent should be allowed to tell me or other parents what my child should or should not read or be taught in school because of their misguided ignorant views.
By the way, you have still yet to answer;
if you believe that "Critical Race Theory [CRT], is taught in grade schools if Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion [DEI] are bad things, if Environmental, safety, and Governance [ESG] , are the impending threats to American society as they have been proposed to be by some nefarious politicians?
I and others are tired of the arrogance and ignorance of misguided people trying to make their fundamental, gross misunderstandings and bigotry into an argument about something that does not exist.
Or that things like tolerance, acceptance, diversity, and inclusion are really bad things...if it not exclusive christian activities...Really!!
So, slavery and where to buy slaves and mass genocide and every other immoral atrocity are rationalized, excused, and overlooked but "sex" or sexual orientations is a line to far, is not really an real argument because the only kids being indoctrinated are religious ones.
I'll say it again not one child, on this entire planet is born religious, they are all indoctrinated into that "lifestyle" by other adults. Let's get grossed out by that instead.
Ignorance and intolerance should not rule the day or set policies based on theological "truths" that have not ever been proven or manifest in actual reality.
So, please excuse the sternness of my words but I'm growing like others are weary of religious people always claiming their beliefs are under attack or they need to be "free" to exclude others in public life because they believe it will please some made up deity, that they, just truly feel, is always thinking about things and considering things the exact same way they do. Enough...
christians have no special right to this country just like muslims, jews, or any other of the hundred beliefs out there.
Are all parents equally skilled at parenting ? Should we just get rid of social services because hey, let "parents" be parents no matter if they are just misinformed and want to make up facts as they go along? Who is this fair to? Definitely not the children...So who really cares "more" about the kids and their upbringing in this society?
The ones who make up silly holidays (christmas, Easter, tooth fairy) and lie about the truth, are the ones trying to provide them with a useful education about the world and reality?
Take care,
Minister Wilson
-
-
-
Anthony Calderone
A Biblical response is relevant to people who claim to be believers in the Bible. There are people claiming to believe in the Bible who support Pride Month. Hence the relevancy of discussing it.
-
Minister Wilson
I neither disagree or agree...
Minister Wilson
-
-
-
-
Phillip Warren Ayres
A man being with a man or a woman being with a woman is an absolute abomination to the living word of God. When God saw that Adam was alone he created him a woman not a man
-
-
John
Minister Baker, I would not know where to begin. Who are you really addressing and why. If you want to clean house why don't you start with the house of God. How many prominent ministers have been found to have committed pedophilia, adultery, homosexuality, pornography, and outright fleecing of their flock. Just off the top of my head we have Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Robert Tilton, Bob Coy, John Lowe the second and the thousands of catholic priest who have committed unprotected and non consensual sex with minors. AND YOUR DISGUSTED WITH PRIDE EVENTS!
Either you are ignorant and blind to the real problem or you have lived your entire life aware of where the real immorality lies and have done nothing. To do nothing makes you an enabler.
-
Michael Holland
I find it interesting that people are so quick to judge! Get educated, one of your kids or grandkids could be gay, what then?
-
SueW
In my family, they would, and were, cut off as if they never existed. A sad testament to “Christianity.”
-
Michael Holland
I was! People think its a choice, who in their right mind would choose a life of deprivation!
-
-
-
Colleen McAllister
What Stephen Baker has written here is no sermon. This is nothing more than his opinion followed by a long list of Scripture supporting that opinion. Means nothing. Out of context Scripture can be made to support almost anything. I'm sorry that we have to have all these special months or events to get us to treat other people like people. As a Christian my advice is to treat the LGBTQ+ like any other person, sinner or not. Love them. Simply love them.
-
James Mitchell Chandler
I find your response on target and perfectly stated.
Thanks.
-
-
Dawn
Two comments: 1- Leviticus-enough said about where this man gets his info and 2-was it Shakespeare who said ‘methinks thou protest too much’? So many of these ‘christian’ preachers are struggling with their own sexual identity, they lash out at others. I suggest years of counseling to learn to love himself and others regardless of…whatever. Christ would have. Then he can call himself a true Christian.
So sad…
-
SueW
There’s Leviticus, and then there are the letters of Paul, who is widely believed to have been a…think the correct modern term would be “incel.”
The cherry picking of Leviticus would be hilarious if it wasn’t so destructive.
-
Robert Edward Szekely
Homosexuality is NOT a choice, contrary to popular belief. The quotes from Leviticus are ALMOST ALWAYS taken out of context, as they apply ONLY to the Levite Priesthood. We conveniently ignore Old Testament passages such as those about men being obligated to marry women they have "known", i.e., raped. The New Testament falls apart under critical scrutiny, as the desperate fabrications of Paul of Tarsus (formerly Saul, a Hellenized Jew who wanted to be a Pharisee) and the fevered dreams of James of Patmos while imprisoned (Revelations). The other books were copied from one another, with various alterations, and not in fact written by the authors they are attributed to. Both the Old and New Testament are a rich part off the fabric of Western cultural history. However, in light of all academic review they have undergone through the years, to give them credence as books of truth, fact or history is to willingly wallow in ignorance. DO. NOT. READ.THE.BIBLE.LITERALLY. or you will miss what insights it truly has to offer.
-
Rev. MichaelRS
Well if one rejects the Bible as the word of God, either literally as sunlight comes through a glass window or simply as inspired and a little more diffused as sunlight come through stained glass, then one rejects Judaism and Christianity.
If they do that there's really no point in the two (the one rejecting those faiths and the people of faith) discussing the matter with each other.
Because both sides could argue till they are blue in the face and nothing will be achieved.
-
-
-
-
Mary E Benoit
Sorry closed minded minister, guess you never met a gay person to get to know them beyond one element of their being. I believe God is everything, the entire Universe including us which means all. So your god made a mistake? You know more, better? Many bible passages have had multiple meanings over time and distance. I’m a minority with many negative referenced to my trait in the bible. I am left handed. Sinister in Latin.
-
Najah P Tamargo
Minister Najah Tamargo USA
You had me at "Those People." That is a derogatory term for SOOOO many people that the phrase alone MAKES ME SICK!
Even thou I am heterosexual, I have had many friends in the LGBQT+ community. They are some of the most loving and kind people I've ever met. In fact, one Christmas, I was so broke that my little boy was not going to have a Christmas. A gay coupled I know brought me a truck full of presents, clothes, toys, and even a Christmas tree! And as a side note, the gay couples I know have been together longer than 99% of hetero couples I know.
No offense to Christians, or any other religion, but let's get real. The "Bible" was written by men thousands of years ago. We don't really know what is true and what is not because NONE OF US WERE ALIVE that long ago! There are religious teachings that are a lot older than that and all it takes is the interpretation of one small sentence to create zealotry!
I think it is time to lay off all the hatred and start loving and respecting everyone. Maybe this world would be in a better place it we took the time to know other cultures and beliefs. The narrow minded people that have these opinions should keep them to themselves!
-
Wilberta M. Berry
The person who wrote this story and listed all of the scriptures they considered as validation against "Pride". Obviously, skipped over the greatest commandment of them all. Matthew 22: 34-40. If they would have read this one it could have ended their angst and writing all of those scriptures. 😂
-
Rev. MichaelRS
Well I think you mean the top two greatest Commandments, as reportedly stated by Jesus, but I'm not sure what being a compassionate person (which loving your neighbor as yourself means) has to do with recognizing and calling out what for centuries has been recognized as sinful behavior and not participating in it.
Which is what verse 40 alludes to; applying the law and the teachings of the prophets with compassion. Which goes back to the mantra stated by some of "Love the sinner but hate the sin."
Now that is not meant to reflect MY total thoughts on the subject, but that is pretty much what that means
-
Wilberta M. Berry
@Rev MichaellRS That Commandment said nothing about calling your neighbors out for any reason.
Since the Bible lists reasons for certain things I'm sure another reason would have been inserted.
Your slant on Biblical scripture is as skewed as anyone else's that don't profess to be a minister. Judgemental much?
Lastly, I said what I meant by listing the exact chapter and verses. Don't put YOUR WORDS in MY COMMENTS that I DIDN'T PUT!!
-
Rev. MichaelRS
First off, what were my words that I put in your comment that you got so angry about.
Secondly, Christians are not told not to be judgmental PERIOD. If that was the mandate there would be no way they would be able to recognize sin and avoided are not participating in it or come out from it.
I don't think my views on the scripture are skewed However I guess if they were skewed I wouldn't know it because they're skewed.
But I only know what I read and I read it in context and cross reference with many other verses, as opposed to taking one or justca a few verses as the be all to end all summary of a dozen books in order to justify my own belief system or lifestyle.
And one of those things I read across the old and the New Testament from several books, yes, as I have said, when the Bible speaks on this subject, it never has anything good to say about it.
However I'm willing to listen to any reasonable argument but says that's all wrong
-
Wilberta M. Berry
Rev MichaelRS
Did you READ Matthew 22: 34-40? Maybe you need to read it again because it is self explanatory. If you can't/ don't understand the meaning you either have reading comprehension issues or are so narrow minded that you choose not to understand. After all it's not the Bible according to Rev MichaelRS. It's just the literal writing in that particular scripture which If, you understood does equate to not being judgemental.
Throughout the Bible it talks about GOD being the final judge of man's deeds. It does not say that man will be the final judge of man's deeds or judge period of man.
Which was Jesus's point to the Apostles question. You love God first and treat your neighbors as yourself. Those are the two greatest Commandments of all. NOT BEING JUDGEMENTAL OF YOUR NEIGHBOR.🤦🏼♀️
-
Rev. MichaelRS
If your "neighbor" is steeped in sin, of whatever variety to whatever degree, the Christian is not required to ignore that and just be buddies with them as if nothing is going on.
Yes all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, but there is a difference between those who do their best to live up to God's expectation versus though that just chuck it all in the wind and live however THEY want to live.
Loving one's neighbor as oneself means to have compassion toward them, it does not mean to act in tacit approval of all that they do. Again, Love the sinner, hate the sin.
As for the final judgment and the final punishment, if any is coming, yes indeed that will be the purview of God.
-
-
-
-
-
-
Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Rev. Benoit; it’s nice to find another Pantheist, amongst my fellow ULC clergy persons.
Because we Pantheists can easily prove the existence of God (because God is synonymous with nature when answering how everything came into existence) religionists envy us; because we have a provable God, but they don’t.
The Christian God is an old white guy, who created his son, Jesus, in his own image - which is incomprehensible to anyone who’s tried to explain such an obvious absurdity to you.
But, because believing Christians were brainwashed into believing absurdities — during their childhoods (when they’d believe almost anything an adult told them) the idea (meme) of a Christian God — who created himself— became embedded into their brains.
Don’t believe me — ask the next Christian God-believer you encounter — to offer a physical description of the father of their Jesus,
-
Anne 'Arie
And the Bible is filled with enough contradictory information that it makes me wonder exactly how much was changed over the eons by people who wanted it to say what they wanted to say. In reality, it is a compilation of letters and stories passed down through the ages. But it is easy to see how people who take it literally, a bit at a time, can read anything they want to see in it. And the preachers preach about how evil people are and that we are never going to be any good. Why bother? And then they wonder why so many people have walked away, disgusted with the old "Christianiity," and re-written the rules to include themselves and others who have been ostracized. People aren't inherently evil. We would do well to remember that running each other down serves no purpose whatsoever.
-
Christine
The best part is in the final sentence of the 4th paragraph where the author had a typo that makes it say celebrating pride entails "sexual immortality", not immorality, IMMORTALITY!!! Hellllll yes. Gay is forever!! Perfect typo
-
SueW
Perfect and well said!
-
-
Douglas Robert Spindler
June should not only be Pride month, but let’s make it Bashing Christians month as well for all of the reasons John stated.
How many prominent ministers have been found to have committed pedophilia, adultery, homosexuality, pornography, and outright fleecing of their flock. Just off the top of my head we have Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Robert Tilton, Bob Coy, John Lowe the second and the thousands of catholic priest who have committed unprotected and non consensual sex with minors.
-
Angelic Realms
Jim Baker was over 40 years ago and a scam artist. But all the grown men need to stay the hell away from kids. Sick of perverts. ALL perverts.
-
Rev. Mike Eggleston
I see you don't say anything against grown women abusing children. :(
-
Douglas Robert Spindler
@ Michelle M Souza Are you excusing Jim Backer and friends from rapping a young women in the name of the Lord because it was 40 year ago? But all grown men need to stay the hell away from kids.” Don’t you mean we should keep kids away from ministers, pastors, priests and bishops and religion as those are the people who rape and molests young children in the name of the Lord God?
And yes we should meting the women…. None come to mind, can you name some?
-
-
-
Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
If the GOP is successful, in turning the USA into a Christian nation, the USA will cease being the USA, and, instead become the BSA; AKA, “The Balkanized States of America.”
If you don’t know what “Balkanized” means, this suggests that you’re a White deplorable GOP MAGA Tea‘Bagger. — the type of deplorable Bagger, that if I (as a ULC bishop) could do so, I’d excommunicate from the Universal LIFE Church
-
Rev Deborah Dunkle (Raven Wolf Song)
You are a hypocrite. Your views are so puritanical it’s unbelievable. You’re putting yourself Above God as judge. All you’re doing is touting Bronze Age Judaic law to justify your own feelings of anger, hatred and rage. You tout Old Testament teaching of Judaic law written by the Pharasees as justification for an illogical and hateful rant. You do know the OT is basically the Torah right?? And that Christ was a Jew? The most important parts of the Bible are noted as the word of God. Now the most important Commandment is to love God the second is like it love thy neighbors as thyself. Judge not says the teacher lest you be judged
We are not to judge others. I think you need to take a serious assessment of your beliefs
-
pjm
Amen!
-
-
Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
I am a small c conservative.
Who you love and how you love is none of my business, so long as the relationship is mutually consensual, age appropriate, and causes no harm.
-
David Arthur Lewis
It's your HATE that's making you sick, not anybody else's behavior or belief. Christians have forsaken Christ and replaced him with HATE. Read the Gospel of Matthew. Love you neighbor as yourself. Judge not. God is Love.
-
Jake Reynolds
Everyone counts, everyone is important, and quotations from a book that is of questionable theory is not the answer. Writing from another book that speaks of treatment for women is also unacceptable, what is acceptable? Read my first sentence.
-
Mary Haviland
That christian is not alone. And it isn't pride month any longer. Wh christian have taken it back it is now prolife month since your evil satanic baby killing ring has gotten over turned by the supreme court. It is now prolive month. And we are taking God's rainbow back.
-
SueW
Good luck with that.
-
Michael Holland
Are you God? Who are you to judge ?
-
Robert Edward Szekely
Mary, I'm surprised you haven't choked on your own bigoted rhetoric by now. Well, I guess if it wasn't for folks like you in this group, it would just get boring. :)
-
Rev Deborah Dunkle (Raven Wolf Song)
Seriously???
-
Brien
Mary, you seem a bit off. Please adjust your medication. Here is your label: BIGOT ....wear it with pride ✌
-
-
Daniel Gray
Why does anyone need a month? The ONLY people who should have a month to celebrate them is Veterans and Native Americans. Because without them there would be no country here. Veterans because they Fought for this country, and Native Americans as this used to be their country before it was stolen from them
-
Robert Edward Szekely
Ah, Daniel - still all vitriol and nonsense. :)
-
Daniel Gray
nope, based on fact and logic. Now if it wasnt for the Military, you would be speaking German or Japanese right now and we would not be having this discussion over a fake month long holiday to appease less then 1% of the population. You DO know that the Germans and the Japanese sent homosexuals to prison camps and they never came out again...right? You can thank a Veteran for that. And if the Native Americans knew then what we know now, your ships would have been sunk in the harbor with all hands aboard. Thats why the Apache and Souix and Commanche have a deep and disturbing hatred for the Mexicans and the Spaniards as they came in and made slaves out of a lot of them and actually committed Genocide and wiped out at least three tribes that I know of...the Yuki were completely exterminated by these same people and that is just one of the tribes that were killed. So yea the Native Americans should have a month all to themselves. SO how does it feel to be shown how wrong you are?
-
-
Robert James Ruhnke
There will be a day when pride month will be a footnote in a history book, when all the LGBTQ+ are no longer harassed by religious bigots for their right to live. Until then. Pride Month it is.
-
Daniel Gray
Yea there will be a day when Pride month is a footnote in history all because people are getting tired of this being shoved in our faces day in and day out. Dont believe me? Look at Budweiser....the have lost almost half their earnings by doing this. Look at Disney. They have less then 300 million dollars in liquid assets and have laid off over 7000 people and soon another 7000 more will be gone. All of the movies they have done with LGBTQ characters have failed massively. Their "woke" crap has caused them to work about selling Lucas Films back to George Lucas for less then a third of what they bought it for. Same for Marvel. When they released "the Flash" with the proved Child molester playing the flash, it has bombed so badly that no theater chain wants to show it. In fact Disney has shut down the European Disneyland as well as the one in China and may soon be looking to sell its parks here in the state. So yea Pride month is going to be a footnote in history, just not the way you want it to be.
-
Robert James Ruhnke
Lol still only using cherry picked data, huh? We don’t shove our lifestyles anywhere. We just exist on our terms. Then try and murder us for it because your fear of superstition doesn’t allow you to evolve. Christians murdering people the last 2000 years for not adhering to a bunch o superstitious mumbo jumbo. Not to mention murdering each other for believing in the same interpretation of mumbo jumbo. Everything you’ve mentioned is nothing but garbage hyperbole. Nothing more than right wingers getting angry at their own opinion. But you’ll go on ignoring that because your agenda narrative has your lot as a group of victim conquerors.
As for that Flash actor. Pfft. He does need jailed or hospitalized for his lunacy. Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis, and many other celebrity pedophiles got away with it for years, but I guess only white straight Christian males are the accepted kind of pedophile out there in this country. Considering they make up the demographic majority for child groomers. Many red states still allow child marriages between grown men and little girls for religious purposes. Your toothless bluster always points to conservatives being supremely toxic and selectively ignorant of it. As always, you have no facts, not citations, nothing more than conjecture, hyperbole, and projection. Haughty opinions with no real heat.
-
-
-
Tim Cranford
Daniel, have you ever lost your job or your home because of who you love? Have you ever been yanked into an alley as you walked down the street and had your face smashed into a brick building repeatedly while your attacker screamed "God hates fags!" and "Fags must die!"? No? I have.
Have you ever had to fight and protest just to get your government to allow you to legally marry the person you love? Were you bullied and called "faggot" by your classmates, before you even knew what the word meant? I have.
Have you ever been afraid to show affection to the person you love in public, such as holding their hand? I have.
Every bit of homophobia, verbal abuse, and physical violence I have encountered as a gay man... even going back to my childhood... has been at the hands of Christians, acting in the name of God, who don't practice Christianity as it was intended, and choose to hate those who are not like them.
THIS is why we have Pride Month. It is to celebrate the progress we have made in our fight to be treated equally, to be given the very rights and privileges we should automatically have as citizens of this country, and to honor those in our community who have given their very lives in that fight... and there have been many.
Stop whining about the fact that we have Pride Month, and thank whatever deity you believe in that you don't need one!
-
Daniel Gray
I own three businesses and 6 houses. And no I dont know of anyone who has lost a job or a home because they were gay. And neither do you since its illegal to do that. So why are you even trying to use this myth. US labor laws clearly say you cant be fired for your sexuality, and HUD regulations clearly say you cannot be refused to purchase a home or rent an apartment because of your sexuality. So why do you even want to go with this obvious myth? I personally know that 3 of the couples that I rent to are gay as they made it clear when I signed their lease to rent. And out of my 3 businesses I have 7 employees who I know are gay as they told me this in the interviews. I personally dont care one way or another BUT when you start causing me trouble I dont care if you are gay or straight, you either straighten up or you are told to move or find another job. You dont cause me any trouble then I have no problems with you. I will make this known right off the bat, the ONLY flags I allow to be flown on my properties or at my businesses are the American Flag, the State Flag and the POW/MIA flag. NO and I do mean absolutely NO other flag is allowed to be flown. You want to fly a gay pride flag, fine, then keep it in the house you are renting, not outside.
And if thats the case then thats your paranoia about holding hands. I live in the midwest and see this on a daily basis so whats your point?
And no thats not the reason for you to have a "pride month". You want it so people like out in LA and NY and Chicago can show their stupidity. You want to march under the rainbow flag then feel free. We recently had a pride march in my town and we had some idiots hysterically whining about "threats" and yet when questioned about it, they could not provide one single bit of evidence that any threats were made. But oh they did whine and cry to the City Council that these were made. And even our own police chief stated that he received no reports from anyone claiming that these mythical threats were made and the parade went off as smooth as satin. Meaning there were no troubles. Heck we even shut down a whole lane of traffic on our main street just so they could safely use the parking lane and the sidewalk which means that you had less then 100 people inconvenience over 55,000 people trying to go about their daily business.
So it seems that your myths have just been destroyed, so maybe its clearly YOU that should stop whining and accept the simple fact that not every myth you have been told by GLADD and others is fact.
-
-
-
Canadian Yankee
I don't care who is gay and who is not. I don't celebrate the fact that I am heterosexual, I just am. For most of my life I have had gay friends and even business partners that have ment a lot to me and I have not appreciated the way many of them, no all of them have been treated but I have no inclination to fthrow them a parade or treat them differently than any of my other friends.
-
pjm
That whole hateful/fearful/disgusting/prejudiced/judgmental/arrogant/self-righteous/incredibly hypocritical rant thinly disguised as "Christian" is actually one of the most UN-Christian things I've seen in a long time. The writer is doing the exact same thing as the hyper-religious Pharisees were doing when Jesus called them a "brood of vipers." Jesus chastised their hypocrisy because they were snobbishly looking down on those whom they didn't feel met their lofty standards of righteousness: The Samaritans. The lepers. The gentiles. The adulterers Yes, even the whores. So much time wasted hunting for and cherry-picking Scripture verses in an attempt to justify one's own human prejudices.
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone. - Jesus
Repent and humble yourself. According to the most basic Christian doctrine you are a filthy sinner saved only by the grace of God and are not a single iota better than those against whom you rail. Stop looking for the mote in the eyes of others when you have a beam in your own.
How are the Fruit of the Spirit shown in your sweepingly generalized diatribe against millions of people whom you don't even know? Where is the love, the joy, the peace, the tolerance, the kindness, the goodness, the self-control? Those things are the evidence of a Christian heart.
Physician, heal thyself! -- Jesus
-
Anthony Calderone
hateful? fearful? disgusting? prejudiced? judgmental? arrogant? self-righteous? incredibly hypocritical?
Those sound like judgements to me.
-
-
brian ham
Judge not that ye be not judged
-
Rev Ned
Hey “Christians” read John 8:7, if you care to check it out.
-
Lynn Schumacher Hamer
As a fellow Minister, it pains me to tell you this, but,,,
I refuse to believe in your version of your God. Your God is spiteful, mean, hateful and full of angst. You yourself, fellow Minister, are full of yourself, idealistic, self-righteous and want/demand everyone to believe as you believe.
I took my previous christian bible school teachings to heart. I believe as a child is taught to believe. Not as an adult is told to believe.
My God loves all of his creatures unconditionally, no matter what.
The bible was written by human man thousands of years ago. Christianity has sparked wars, attempted genocides, hateful crimes like the Spanish Inquisition. It is based on a "Do as I tell you blindly, but don't tell me what to do" theology.
Christianity is obviously not alone in it's decision to tell people to love only certain people. To gate everyone who disagrees or put women down or beat your kid. But it's the vaguely predominant religion that has every sect of it believing they are the only good ones.
It is disheartening and I feel really bad for you.
But on a good note, it's my understanding that heaven will put you in a secluded garden where you can spend eternity believing that your the only one up there. Say hi to my mom. She's in one of those gardens.
-
Lynn Schumacher Hamer
As a fellow Minister, it pains me to tell you this, but,,,
I refuse to believe in your version of your God. Your God is spiteful, mean, hateful and full of angst. You yourself, fellow Minister, are full of yourself, idealistic, self-righteous and want/demand everyone to believe as you believe.
I took my previous christian bible school teachings to heart. I believe as a child is taught to believe. Not as an adult is told to believe.
My God loves all of his creatures unconditionally, no matter what.
The bible was written by human man thousands of years ago. Christianity has sparked wars, attempted genocides, hateful crimes like the Spanish Inquisition. It is based on a "Do as I tell you blindly, but don't tell me what to do" theology.
Christianity is obviously not alone in it's decision to tell people to love only certain people. To gate everyone who disagrees or put women down or beat your kid. But it's the vaguely predominant religion that has every sect of it believing they are the only good ones.
It is disheartening and I feel really bad for you.
But on a good note, it's my understanding that heaven will put you in a secluded garden where you can spend eternity believing that your the only one up there. Say hi to my mom. She's in one of those gardens.
-
Lynn Schumacher Hamer
As a fellow Minister, it pains me to tell you this, but,,,
I refuse to believe in your version of your God. Your God is spiteful, mean, hateful and full of angst. You yourself, fellow Minister, are full of yourself, idealistic, self-righteous and want/demand everyone to believe as you believe.
I took my previous christian bible school teachings to heart. I believe as a child is taught to believe. Not as an adult is told to believe.
My God loves all of his creatures unconditionally, no matter what.
The bible was written by human man thousands of years ago. Christianity has sparked wars, attempted genocides, hateful crimes like the Spanish Inquisition. It is based on a "Do as I tell you blindly, but don't tell me what to do" theology.
Christianity is obviously not alone in it's decision to tell people to love only certain people. To gate everyone who disagrees or put women down or beat your kid. But it's the vaguely predominant religion that has every sect of it believing they are the only good ones.
It is disheartening and I feel really bad for you.
But on a good note, it's my understanding that heaven will put you in a secluded garden where you can spend eternity believing that your the only one up there. Say hi to my mom. She's in one of those gardens.
-
Rev. MichaelRS
This is America. People are free to live their life the way they want. However when I look at the scriptures and by that I mean the judeo-christian scriptures, I find one immutable truth;
Every time this subject comes up, or perhaps it would be more accurate to say the subject of certain "activities" comes up, the scriptures have nothing good to say about it/them.
If they believe otherwise, I'm not really sure what mental gymnastics one who refers themselves as a Jew or a Christian has to go through to reconcile that.
But the problem I have with pride month is simply it's decadent unseemliness. Think about it. What, really, is pride month?
It's people parading about and publicly celebrating what they do in the bedroom or some other aspect of their sexuality.
It's like a pagan festival out of ancient Rome.
I also find it kind of interesting that veterans who fought and died for this country, or put on the uniform with the potential to, get two days, widespread apart, out of the year to celebrate them. But people with certain sexual proclivities get a whole month.
-
SueW
It doesn’t really take a lot of mental gymnastics to believe that the fears and prejudices of those who didn’t know where the sun went at night might not be valid in 2023. The Bible considers slavery acceptable and women property. Did it take “mental gymnastics” to change those beliefs?
-
Michael Holland
May is Veterans month!
-
Robert Edward Szekely
Under objective scrutiny, the Scriptures do not reveal immutable truth. However, upon reflection, they may offer some occasional nuggets of wisdom to the open-minded. We tend to conveniently overlook how jealous, angry, specious and bloodthirsty the God of the Old Testament is, ordering his people to repeatedly commit genocide.
-
Rev. MichaelRS
Well if you will reread my statement you will see I said I find one immutable truth. There may be more, but I'm speaking I was only speaking of one at this point.
And THAT truth is EVERYtime the Bible (taken combined as the Jewish Bible and the Christian New Testament) refers to certain sexual practices, it unequivocally has nothing good to say about them.
So the thought process that one goes through to say, "No it's really okay, even though it blatantly speaks against it at every turn." It's not something I understand.
Now don't get me wrong. I make no final judgment on such matters as that is not my place. We know who will be the final judge in these matters.
-
-
-
Rev. SolomonSaint
May the LIGHT of the FATHER forever shine on all his children! And, may the LORD'S blessings be upon all!
-
Lionheart
Awe….thank you, Solomon. Whatever you said here, and whatever you mean, you sound like a real nice guy. 🤗
🦁❤️
-
-
Brien
When people stop referring to themselves as things, when they stop labeling themselves to cause controversy, when they stop trying to impose their beliefs either religion or lifestyles, the world will be a much less toxic place. The only thing that empty topics like this one do is fuel hatred and controversy. If none of you can see that, then the human race us doomed to consistent failure.
-
Rev. Laurie G. Cleveland RN
Ok. A lot of things taken out of text. Let's forgrt sbout Old Testament and New Testament for a moment. Bybyour own words, you are not just condemning a group of people wjo have suffered greatly through much of known history. Then you confuse the issue with divorce. For you, it's black sndvwhite.
So let me adk you this, because I sm divorced and priir that happening, I was cast aside and abused in the worst way possible. I don't do well with this sort of behavior as it happened to me quite a bit growing up.
So according to you, I am a sinner that shouldn't have the right to gonto heaven and I might as well ad a 26 yesr relationshipbwhere he finally wanted to marry me and covid came into play. We are still together and I keep my wedding gown in its dust bag hoping that I will be remarried again. He doedn't see the need for it and I do. I just got handed an anniversary card that says "To My Wife." As we arrn't married either by the JP or a minister, I am not married. I am in a state of limbo. I want to get married, but until he decides otherwise,I have two choices put up with him or go find another guy. I am not sure what thus means, but I know that it is old and you need to make up your mind. In your words, I am a sinner with no hope of ever getting redeemed in the sight of God. Ok now let's talk about the LGBT movement. At first it was gays and lesbians who couldn't get equal rights for their partners. They couldn't get health insurance and many times, when one was fying, the famikybof the dying family would prevent the partber from seeing the person who was dying and put undue stress on both of them. When Yeshua walked this earth, he was very well aware of the problem and the waybthat Peter hated Mary Magdalene who was tobtake over his church, who was his wife. Back then id you were of age, youbgot married. If uou didn't, her were pretty much dhunned. Those c who had a proclivity for the same sex, he treated the samecas snybody else, recognizing it tor what it was, a normal variation. At one point. I had a bf who was Catholic with a C. He had gotten divorced and I think that he had a couple of kids. We split because the Church woukdn't recognize the divorce and they have what amounts to a divorce, but the priest gorbid it. Si you had two very unhappy people being unwilling have a better life and be hapoy. Doesn't everyine deserve some happiness? Why should a couple stay together if their diffetences are unreconcilable and there is abuse? They shou I dn't. It is jo secret that many of the priests are gay. Those that are not have strayed from their vows. This is fairly new going vack tobthw dark sges when the Pope decided to forbid marriage so that b the money co u ld come to him. Thinknabout that for a change.
-
Daniel Todd Kamm
This opinion is a very sloppy take on the writings, but also demonizes other people who, if I understand christianity correctly, should be set free of any kind of error based on the forgiveness justified by the death of the teacher the writer professes to follow. Cherry picking. And that anyone should be relegated to any sort of pardon, or "salvation" to someone else's prayers...? Very offensive. Pray for your own errors, not your perceived errors of others. Thank you...Reb tk
-
Robert Gagnon
Sounds like like a personal dislike of the whole affair, then he searched the bible for any reference that agreed with his view. I believe the LGB is a valid cause of normal people that practice attraction to same or either sex. The q's and trans are obviously not normal. They think they are trail blazers and can't be loud or obnoxious enough. Now there's bearded ladies, neutered boys, everything that used to be exhibited at the carnival freak show. Only today's freaks are self made. Tatoos and facial / genital piercing didn't garner enough attention, lets invent imaginary genders. All this at the cost of the LGB that spent 50 years fighting for basic and equal rights. This month long agitation is destroying everything that good people built, so the mentally deficient (over 80% on spectrum) can brag on Tik Toc what new sexual endeavors or surgical mutilations they have performed. All the time hating gays and lesbians for not being serious enough about the cause for acting normal. Sexual orientation does not deserve a month long place in our society. Give 'em a day once a year. And by the way making fathers day parent day will never fly, the sensitive will just have to put up with the insult.
-
Canadian Yankee
Comment removed by user.
-
Robert Edward Szekely
These parades acknowledge that they are now free to no longer hide who they are. Heterosexuals have never had to do so. Americans celebrate our freedom from the British crown every July 4th. Maybe you think that's unnecessary, too?
-
-
Stacey Owens
What people need to understand about the LGBQ and Christianity is that in the eyes of God neither exist in his presents, nor does race exist. God only sees the garment that a person is clothed upon. What I mean is, the heavenly garment. The flesh to Him profits nothing. The garment I'm talking about is the covering of Himself. God must see the life of Himself in everyone who trust in Him through Christ.
God is a spirit, and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. No man should be worshipping Him as identifing himself according to what we are in the flesh. A Form means nothing but the spirit. This is why a person must walk in the spirit not be as our identity. We should allow God which is the Holy Spirit to bare witness with our spirit that we are the children of God by the Holy Spirit He has given to us.
God is love but not according to the love of the world, His love is Holy. He is the one that can bare record of Himself by the Holy Spirit; The word, the spirit and the blood. These three bare record as a witness in this world.
So, if a person identifies as LGBTQ, Christian, white, black etc. Only Christ is acknowledged by only the garment of him that dwells with in you that he He has clothe us with.
Other then that, it will be a dead in arguement or judgment one against another. In other word, it will be dead works.
-
Stacey Owens
What people need to understand about the LGBQ and Christianity is that in the eyes of God neither exist in his presents, nor does race exist. God only sees the garment that a person is clothed upon. What I mean is, the heavenly garment. The flesh to Him profits nothing. The garment I'm talking about is the covering of Himself. God must see the life of Himself in everyone who trust in Him through Christ.
God is a spirit, and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. No man should be worshipping Him as identifing himself according to what we are in the flesh. A Form means nothing but the spirit. This is why a person must walk in the spirit not be as our identity. We should allow God which is the Holy Spirit to bare witness with our spirit that we are the children of God by the Holy Spirit He has given to us.
God is love but not according to the love of the world, His love is Holy. He is the one that can bare record of Himself by the Holy Spirit; The word, the spirit and the blood. These three bare record as a witness in this world.
So, if a person identifies as LGBTQ, Christian, white, black etc. Only Christ is acknowledged by only the garment of him that dwells with in you that he He has clothe us with.
Other then that, it will be a dead in arguement or judgment one against another. In other word, it will be dead works.
-
Lionheart
Do you have any demonstrable evidence to support your claim of knowing what your god sees, being as no one has yet managed to prove any of the worlds gods are real, even yours. Until then, it seems your claims really are baseless fallacies. It’s fun though to read what you like to believe is true, which is very similar to everyone else on earth that likes to believe in their particular deity. They all seem to insist on knowing what their deity thinks and sees.
Oh….one more thing 🕵️♂️, they all say their god is love. Weird….right?
Thank you for your comment. 🤗
🦁❤️
-
Rev Ned
If there is a “God”, He/She seems to have a beef with Florida and Texas. Various natural disasters, floods, tornadoes, in both. In Florida hurricanes, red tides and Sargasso clumps. NOW, pestilence (malaria) in both. 🤔
-
Lionheart
Yes, the Christian deity was very pestilential. Just another one of his very loving traits for mankind. 🤷🏼
🦁❤️
-
-
-
-
Rev. Dr. James Jacob Showers Jr
Wow, some of the commentary is very intriguing. Journal entries about man's word to man-very intriguing. I could be mistaken, but I think the only 'real commands' from the Boss is to 'Love your neighbor as yourself'. Unless one is a white supremacist, or a terrorist anarchist aryan. All of the above may be applicable. What of such organizations as the 'Cathedral of Hope'. Ferociously Christian, but the biggest gay and lesbian church, if i'm not mistaken in the USA. or the United Church of Christ....God gave us the word, as a road map of where we were, and where we have the potential to be. Thank you to Hon. Dr. Elaine Pagels, and all of the rest of the Nag Hammdhi Library scribes. Of course they may say the same thing, if you cannot believe in a Loving and Caring God, then you'll get bogged down in worldly attitudes. I try to 'give at the office' when it comes to the 'Pharisees' and 'Sadducee'. As 'Red-Green' would say..'Keep your stick on the ice, we're in this together'.
-
Brien
No, I'm sorry to say that we are definitely NOT in this together. You seem reasonable so let me show you where we parted ways: "God gave us the word, ", umm no. First, please prove GOD. If you do, than know that this being would be tried for genocide. Second, if proven, please show the nature of the power that this being has in order to "give the word". Faith it seems does not require proof, nor does the hate that is taught from it. Peace✌️
-
-
Timothy Newell
Good for you Minister Baker! It's refreshing to see the few ministers on this website who dare to refer to, respect, and honor the the Word of God. And this is from someone, Minister Baker, who took the rainbow and adhered to the misrepresentation of it. Rabbi Kirt Schneider currently is lining up The Taking the Rainbow Back campaign, and I gave the rainbow back nearly two years ago. He loves homosexuals and so do I as I was one of them at one time, why would I hate them? We pray to God that others will follow and get back to His Word. I remember back when I was gay that Matthew 7:1-2 was my favorite verse, an example of using precepts of His Word for my own devices, which is the wide way everyone seems to be traveling on. Minister Baker, it's people like you who are traveling the narrow way, and that is the way of the Lord and our Savior who died and bled for all of us because of the sins of the world! Nice to see somebody receiving the gift God gave us. The gift of salvation. I need not read most of the comments that this marvelous article has provoked because the tape recorder is going to go on and on and on. I listened to that tape a very long time. I not only changed the tape, I got a new tape player.
Courage.
-
Rev. MichaelRS
This liberal gay woman and conservative gay man pretty much sum up my position on the matter.
If you're going to bother to look at it look at the whole thing and don't just stop the very first thing you disagree with and start yelling. Because there's a whole lot of nuance and context here.
https://youtu.be/YysgbnBohhc
-
Rev. Linda Brey
all i’m going to say is there is a 11 commandment, which reads love one another as I have loved you. God made us all different for a reason and we are not to judge or question why but to love each other as we are when we begin to do that we will begin to make this world a better place
-
Rev. Linda Brey
Comment removed by user.
-
-
Rev. Linda Brey
Comment removed by user.
-
David Harold Clark
I will stand with Stephen Baker and his decision to stand on the word of God. We are to love the sinners but not the sin. I feel we have taken God's promise never to destroy mankind by flood again ie His sign the rainbow. And have profaned it into something vile. We are living as in the days of Noah. It sickens me to see what's happening with our children and the church. It's time to pray like you never have before.
-
Kenneth John Bickley
Why is the color 'brown' left out of their colors? Are they excluding brown and black people? Second thing about the colors. How dare they steal the colors of a rainbow! I have worn a rainbow colored wig for clowning for decades but now everyone perceives me as being one of the LGBTQ+ crowd or in support of them. My clown motley is made of many colors. Once upon a time, men could not wear pink or else they would be considered gay. Of course I wore a pink tie and later a pink shirt to work. I WANT MY COLORS BACK! Besides that, go ahead and do what you wish, bibles, Torahs, Korans or whatever.
-
Thomas H. Powers
What exactly did Jesus have to say about all this? You have quoted many sources but I don’t see anything from Jesus.
-
Mary Theresa Usrey
Love is love
-
Lynn Schumacher Hamer
As a fellow Minister, it pains me to tell you this, but,,,
I refuse to believe in your version of your God. Your God is spiteful, mean, hateful and full of angst. You yourself, fellow Minister, are full of yourself, idealistic, self-righteous and want/demand everyone to believe as you believe.
I took my previous christian bible school teachings to heart. I believe as a child is taught to believe. Not as an adult is told to believe.
My God loves all of his creatures unconditionally, no matter what.
The bible was written by human man thousands of years ago. Christianity has sparked wars, attempted genocides, hateful crimes like the Spanish Inquisition. It is based on a "Do as I tell you blindly, but don't tell me what to do" theology.
Christianity is obviously not alone in it's decision to tell people to love only certain people. To gate everyone who disagrees or put women down or beat your kid. But it's the vaguely predominant religion that has every sect of it believing they are the only good ones.
It is disheartening and I feel really bad for you.
But on a good note, it's my understanding that heaven will put you in a secluded garden where you can spend eternity believing that your the only one up there. Say hi to my mom. She's in one of those gardens.
-
Brien
"There’s nothing to do but pray for these people... "... I sit and read these words over and over again. I am sorry that I fought for your freedoms, and I am disgusted with the organized religions. They all speak of love, and they are ALL the basis for the worst wars, death, and destruction on this world 🌎. Why can't the zealot believers see that? Why are you all willing to teach hate? You don't have to agree, but you also don't have to hate. You chose to hate. You chose to be hurtful. WHY?
If it is God who makes us, gives us life, gives us our soul, then it is God who made me transgender. It is God who makes homosexuals. Does God make mistakes ? Not according to your Bible.
God made you a whole man. You made you the homosexual through your free will. It is your choice to be abominable. No one is born gay and it is not the way god made people. Everything God made was very good.
This is your poor choice friend. Deal with it.
I did NOT choose to be Transgender. Who would, especially in this world of hateful exclusion? Medical science is clear. Homosexual and Transgender folk are born this way. The ONLY choice, MY choice was to find, accept, and live my authentic identity and become a whole, healthy, and happy being. Your denial of science does not make truth.
Thank you, Stephanie! I also want to ask why is ULC even putting out these kinds of divisive articles. Couldn't this guy just spew this stuff to similar haters. This not a discussion just another pulpit.
There is nothing more hateful than Christian "love". :(
Are you God? Who are you to judge ?
absolute nonsense. Very few people would choose to be harassed and murdered. Members of the LGBTQIA+ community face discrimination and assault every day. Being gay, lesbian, trans, and other identities are not choices, it is how we are born.
Yes, Cheryl, you are very correct. We were all born as sinners. We each have some dominate sin. :Some are gay, some are abusers, some are prideful, some are liars, some are robbers, etc, etc. Jesus addressed that when he said, "Except a person be born again, they cannot see the Kingdom of God." St. John 3:4. Read the full chapter 3 of St John in the Bible for more insight.
The bible also states, "For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. But God commended His love towards us, in that, while we were sinners, Jesus Christ died for us." Romans 3:23 and 5:8. Also read the 5th and 6th chapters in Romans for more insight.
Perry, since you feel so bold with your statement, I will follow your example. Remember, this is your example. I find your words to be distugusting. You are the worst kind of zealot, filled with hate and hiding behind your mythical being. Frankly, a person such as yourself makes me physically ill. You are an abomination to society. I would not remain in the same room with you, nor would I allow any of my loved ones to be exposed to you. You are the very definition of toxic. Since I do not believe in your book of myths, I will own this by saying that I judge you to be toxic. There now, not only did I follow your example, I wrote it much better. Peace.
I guess we are very fortunate that your brutal god hasn’t brought back stoning people to death, that he condoned in the older times.
Your god had some very naughty ideas, and needs some time-out. I’m so glad that no one has yet proved he’s real. Phew! We’ve dodged a bullet there. 🤭
🦁❤️
I have a question for you, do you have a spirit dwelling in your body?
God did not make you Transgender. You did, through free will choices. There is no such thing. Check your Chromosomes. You are what you were born ANything else is insanity.
Are you God? Who are you to judge ?
God said. It's the word of God. You are saying who is God to judge you? See the arrogance? It's fine to defile yourself but you want to defile and confuse children. Not any excuse.
But, God can make you born: blind, deaf, left or right handed, tall or short, physically disfigured, mentally diminished, riddled with cancers, and intersexed but, can't or won't make anyone gay, bi, or trans.
What an idiotic way of thinking you have.
Yea right . It was your choice not Gods.
Are you God? Who are you to judge ?
With all do respect, God created you after His image and after His likeness. He created you holy as He is holy. In spirit and in truth. What you don't understand is the tabernacle He formed from the dust of the ground which is the body, you changed it without Gods handy work. You made your self by your own hands. You changed your gender. This is called the works of the flesh by the law of the flesh. How can anyone please God by the image they wanted to be formed into, you should have been formed in the wound. God would have gotten the glory.
The thing that is important, is the image of your spirit of life, you couldn't change. Your spirit is the first fruit. Thats still the image and likeness of God. God doesn't want the flesh, He wants your spirit. What's of the flesh is flesh, but whats of the spirit is spirit. In other words, your spirit is life. God can still get to you and change your life and transform your mind. Your confession can do that being a sacrifice from the heart, by acknowiedging Him through Christ Jesus As it is written, the flesh lust against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh. God is the Spirit of life. He doesn't have a body and no one has seen Him at anytime. When we all pass away, the image that God created returns to the image we we're created as being, sons God. If you don't believe, you will be judged by the works you have done in your body. Will it refects the life of God, in Spirit and in truth? Or will it reflect the works of the flesh? I pray that it reflects the works of the spirit of truth: LIFE. I pray God adds a blessing to his word.