The following guest sermon was submitted by ULC minister Jeferson V. Barbosa. All ULC Ministers are invited to contribute their own sermons for consideration/publication. To submit a sermon, please email it to sermons@ulc.org.
Can Women Aspire to Ordained Ministry?
This is a recurring debate in some Protestant and Catholic denominations.
Under the allegation that Christ constituted men to carry the gospel message, and the apostle Paul forbidding "women to teach," we see something that does not match reality.
When Jesus rose from the dead, women were the first to announce the risen Christ to the disciples, who were "closed for fear of the Jews," as the gospels say.
And Jesus says to the women who went to his tomb: “Go to my brothers and tell them to wait for me in Galilee.”
Women were the first “apostles” of the proclamation of the Lord's resurrection.
Why did Jesus appoint men to the ministry and not women?
We have to keep in mind the context in which Jesus and women lived, which was a patriarchal society, where women were considered subordinate, and by placing women in a situation in a patriarchal society where women had no voice, Jesus wanted to prevent women from women put their lives at risk.
Even when Paul in one of his epistles forbids women to teach, in other epistles we can see that women worked actively in the apostolic ministry with the apostles, even if their functions were not clear.
The apostle Paul himself claims the right to have women assistants (despite Paul being celibate) to help him in the ministry.
Can Women Become Pastors or Reverends?
If it was the women Jesus appeared to after the resurrection and told them to go tell the other brothers, what harm is there in that?
From two thousand years ago to now, there have been some changes in relation to women.
They are now actively participating in politics and other notable professional fields, so why deny them ordained ministry?
Those denominations that prohibit the pastoral exercise of women, still try to revive a patriarchy that on the cross was defeated by Christ when "the veil of the temple was torn."
With that, any division that existed ended, today everyone is equal before God.
So to do an exegesis saying that Jesus constituted only men, and that the apostle Paul forbade women to speak and teach, in addition to the lack of historical knowledge, is a great error of exegesis.
Those religious institutions that preach through "men of God" that women should be silent actually fear that women will do ministry better than they do.
Recently, we see that Pope Francis has placed women in important positions that were previously held by cardinals.
Although the Pope has not yet admitted women into Holy Orders, but has only allowed women to hold minor lay orders, we see the Pope's perception that the Church needs female insight for certain matters.
Whether the Catholic Church will ever allow women to enter the clergy hood is a subject for another post.
But with the vocational crisis within the Catholic Church, if it does not modernize with regard to celibacy and the ordination of women, the institution is eventually at risk of collapse (in my opinion).
Concluding our post, we need to do a contextualized exegesis of the reality we live in, the world we live in.
It is not about wanting to change the word of God, but about giving a new meaning to the reality in which we live.
54 comments
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Carol M. Anaski-Figurski
In order to catch up to the 21 st century, Women need to be included in everything. Including Presidency, Church Hierchy, & in the military such as combat. Other countries have had more equality for women in higher positions than the good old USA. Women are said to be the more intelligent, more compassionate, more intuitive. Women in Ministry only make it better. Did you ever think outside the box that Jesus God could be a female. or even holy moses? Imagine the possible.
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Wilberta M. Berry
Absolutely 100%. I've never read any where in the Bible that said women could not spread the gospel. The all male concept of ministers comes from patriarchal societies.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Nope. The bible says ‘negatory, good boy’ on that.
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Colleen McAllister
What a pompous bunch of words. Really says nothing except her opinion. However, Biblical example: Lydia who was the first to head a church group in Europe. A woman. Show me where Jesus himself said that women can't be preachers.
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Lionheart
In fact, Colleen, show me any proof whatsoever of anything Jesus ever really said? We actually don’t know do we?
We do have writings from historians decades later of what it is presumed he said, but who knows whether whatever they wrote was in fact true? I’m sure misinformation existed even way back then to support their narratives of what they wanted people to believe.
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Colleen McAllister
It's called FAITH for a reason. The main tenet of true Christianity is our faith. If we believe. I don't need a word for word quote. In fact that would make me more suspicious of the Word. The fact that eyewitnesses tell the same basic story in different words holdsore veracity. Ask a cop about witnesses. Same scene and differing words. The end line is the same.
Whether YOU belive or not those of us who do are satisfied.
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Lionheart
I really do know it’s called faith, Colleen. It’s that same attribute that every other religion on the face of the earth has, to insist that what they believe is in fact the truth. My Mormon friends, and Hindu friends, say the same as yourself about their faith. They would think you are wrong in your faith, and I’m sure you would say the same to them. Thank you for your comment 🤗
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Larry Mager
Amen, Sister Colleen, Amen! Imho, Paul was a typical Patriarchalist of his time...like so many today. In my Experience, they are afraid that women will take over and put the men into the 2nd class citizen place. What goes around, comes around, Boys!!!!!!!
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Colleen McAllister
Yes Larry. And Paul even says on occasion that these are his words and opinions. Where it is from Jesus he says so.
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Larry Mager
Hi Sister Colleen! I agree with You..I don't remember exactly where He said that right off of the top of my head, but He did say that. Another area that says that Jesus did allow women to preach is in the "Gospel of Mary". Granted the Patriarchal so and Sos won't accept it, but I have faith that Jesus DID love Mary more than the other disciples. Upon cleaning the fresco/painting of Da Vinci's "The Last Supper", it appears that it isn't James leaning on him. Oh well, Colleen, folks can believe what they want. As for me and my House, We believe that Jesus DID allow women to be Preachers, Teachers, Deacons and other roles in His church. May You be Blessed Dear Sister!
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Lionheart
Wow, Larry. That's quite a story you have there. Just as a heads up, the Harry Potter books are also fiction. Great story...but still fiction.
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Daniel-David
I can’t believe that you believe that Gandalf the Gray and Surnman the White are not real. What proof to you have for that or any of the other statements you make?
Can anything be ‘proved?’
Did David Copperfield really make the Statue of Liberty vanish? I saw it with my own eyes.
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Lionheart
Oh no! You mean to say Gandalf and Surnman are not real? Why didn’t anyone tell me? I guess I was relying too much on faith 🤷🏼. Thanks for the heads up. 🤗
Don’t tell Daniel Gray, or John Partin, about David Copperfield, they tend to believe a lot of things they read and like to believe the stories are reality. They mean well though.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
God and religion are on life support if not dead already. Allowing women into these roles God said were for males only just shows everyone no one cares about what God says. Allowing women to serve in these roles is just trying to keep the religious con alive. Notice how the Mormons aren’t if considering doing this? It’s because hey have over $200 Billion dollars in investments and don’t need to. Just goes to show you the more outrageous the con, the more money can be swindled.
Women are too smart and want nothing to do with religion, they know it’s a con.
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Rev. MichaelRS
On a personal level, assuming their Doctrine is otherwise a sound, I have no problem with women Ministers of any sort.
However the examples given in the article for "justifying" it are kind of silly. I mean if Jesus said to one of the Marys, "Hey could you go next door and tell James I want to see him?" Does that then make her the deliverer of the Divine message in essence a preacher, or is she still just a lay person delivering a routine message as anybody else might?
If one is saying that the charge to men specifically to go forth and preach is only the result of a patriarchy and not from Divine will then they are changing the very core nature of the information we have in scriptures.
It would be more honest if people, instead of trying to reach for obscure meanings or twist those meanings in scriptures to justify a position, would simply say...
"We know what it says and we know that this person supposedly said it, but we don't think that it really applies and we're just going to go do what we believe and we're going to let God sort it out later".
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Shirley Ann Friar
Comment removed by user.
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Shirley Ann Friar
Greetings!
As a woman minister working in mental health ministry, some universities who accept women require ordination because of the parameters of care and spiritual covering needed to equip disciples (men or women) who do the work of evangelism and discipleship with the mentally ill (Matthew 28: 18-20). When there is an order or call from God to do the works of Christ Jesus Yeshua, manifestations of the Holy Spirit of Truth counsels us and imparts gifts and fruits of the Holy Spirit to serve others in that manner. When we see the works of Christ modeled with his teaching and healing ministry with children and youth, adults and the elderly with mental illnesses whom we serve - the glory revealed through Jesus effectually concludes where we are in the world today for a willingness to serve individuals often not given serious thought.
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Nicholas J Page
Why shouldn't women be ordained.This is the modern world every one is equal and if a woman wants to be a minister and devout her life to the church so be it We have nuns in England and women in the ministry.Good for them.Its time we accepted women as equal.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
According to the only Bible that patriotic democracy-supporting, non-misogynistic, freethinking, intelligent, non-racist USA’s should ever use, the Thomas Jefferson Bible (which, unlike the King James Bible — that’s relied on by funnymentalist Christians) and the Thomas Jefferson Bible (unlike the King James Bible) shows no evidence of being misogynistic.
In fact, the Thomas Jefferson Bible (available from the Universal Life Ministries) doesn’t exclude the possibility that the Holy Ghost might even be of the feminine gender.
And if the Holy Ghost is a female, this opens up the possibility that the Roman Catholic Church can start to have female pastors, and even the second pope to become a female (the first female pope — Pope Joan, 850 ACE, or thereabouts).
Google “Pope Joan” and share what you learn, with any Roman Catholic with whom you happen to interact.
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Sean Nettles
I Believe The Lord Jesus Christ Should be Everyone's inspiration for the lord gave his only begotten son Jesus Christ to Die For Humanities Sins God Bless Everyone pray 🙏 ✝️
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Lionheart
That’s a novel concept. Did you read that in a book somewhere? Thank you for telling us what you enjoy believing. It’s quite amazing what others of other religions enjoy believing. 🤗
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Sean Nettles
I Believe The Lord Jesus Christ Should be Everyone's inspiration for the lord gave his only begotten son Jesus Christ to Die For Humanities Sins God Bless Everyone 🙏 ✝️
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Lionheart
Did you read that somewhere, Sean? The story sounds familiar.
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Sean Nettles
I Believe The Lord Jesus Christ Should be Everyone's inspiration for the lord gave his only begotten son Jesus Christ to Die For Humanities Sins God Bless Everyone 🙏 ✝️
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Lionheart
Did you read that somewhere, Sean? Do you have any evidence of that claim?
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Daniel-David
Do you have any evidence to the contrary?
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Lionheart
There appears to be no demonstrable evidence, Daniel, to either support, or deny, the claim. It’s the same with fairies, Sasquatch, leprechauns, the Loch Ness monster, et al. It’s a safe bet that these don’t exist, just like any of the worlds gods that people believe in, but who knows? 🤷🏼
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
I definitely think so, especially as one of my niece's grandmothers in law is a Congregationalist minister and officiated her Wedding.
Then again I'm a Heathen, who was a Pagan after leaving Catholicism 48 years ago. Both of those communities have Priests and Priestesses.
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Thomas P. Davis
I know not the reason that the ordination of woman is not in the bible, but one big hurdle to overcome is they must be "the husband of one wife," but in today's culture with the natural body giving up its natural use, they could probably twist it to meet those conditions. No one male or female could be become a Reverend, since the bible says that is a mane reserved for God,
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Colleen McAllister
Husband of one wife us for Deacons. Also it kiterally means one wife at a time. Polygamy was not a Mormon invention.
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Lionheart
Many of the so called Patriarchs were polygamists. It's my understanding Moses was, that's if Moses was real.
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Colleen McAllister
Yes Larry. And Paul even says on occasion that these are his words and opinions. Where it is from Jesus he says so.
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Lionheart
Even though the historian, whoever he was, that penned those words never met Paul. 🤷🏼
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Daniel-David
You still seem very intent on telling most of us what we can’t believe, because we are unable to understand your burden of ‘proof.’
As a former or ex-High Priest you must that believe in some creed, some ritualistic something. Taking about your dog does not make anything said historically incorrect or not true.
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Lionheart
Not at all, Daniel. People can believe in whatever they want to believe in, as long as it doesn’t affect the health and welfare of those that don’t have the same belief system.
What tends to bug me, (and that’s my own issue) is when people categorically make a claim of what someone definitely said when there is no supporting evidence, apart from anecdotal writings in a book, written by people who never met the people they were writing about. There is still very little evidence that the Jesus fellow ever existed, even though it’s very possible someone of that name did.
My comments are designed with the intent to make people think about what they are saying, and logically evaluate their thought structure, using critical thought, and to question their own indoctrination.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
The Abrahamic faiths are about patriarchal power and control.
They're not about to share with women or the non-ordained.
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Joseph Bates
1 Timothy 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet.
the bible never says they can't preach only they cant teach men. Translated here it's better read for a wife not to teach her husband. Jesus was head of the church. Husbands are head of the house and home. This is what the bible says.
Don’t ask any Democrats, they can’t even describe what a woman is. I think they describe them as “Child Bearers” now 🤷🏼
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LionHeart,
Your comment shows a great lack of understanding in biblical threads that weave through both testaments. The idea of ‘the priesthood of all believers’ has been around for a good while.
To load your response up with political pandering, lessens the value of what you write.
My sister is an ordained minister and has served God humbly and with great passion, for over 50 years, up near Lockport, New York.
Thank you for your reply, Daniel. I’m wrong in calling women “Child Bearers”, I just read on a liberal woke post somewhere that they now call them “Birthing People”. Who know what they’ll be called this time next year. 🤷🏼 What has the world come to, eh, Daniel?
I personally prefer to honourably call them women. Much like the title heading of this blog topic, and see them as equal to men.
As for your comment about “my lack of understanding in biblical threads”, perhaps you could educate this ex-High Priest? 🤗
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‘Ex-High Priest? It’s a little startling that you used EX instead of former. But that’s almost irrelevant given the topic.
Which side of the debate do you believe Jesus would be on for the following:
Health care for all children? Health for all people in the USA. PERIOD. Should we tell the family of Emma Lazerth to come get her poem off the Statue of Liberty?
Giving a blessing to ALL of Gods children.
Jesus talked to the woman at the well, even his disciples were surprised.
Jesus raised and healed many people without saying: “who do you say I am.’ And what religion are you? THAT’S a requirement for you to follow me and become a disciple.
Jesus did make it clear this way:
“Come to me ALL who are burdened and heavyy laden and I will give you rest.”
“Go into all the world…”
There’s more but not for tonight.
Women were ‘fashioned’ by God, blessed by God and kept safe by God.
Go ahead and cast the first stone!
Thank you, Daniel for your reply. I'm good with the term "former High Priest".
As for casting the first stone, can someone help me with this boulder?🤭
We actually have no demonstrable evidence as to what Jesus ever really said, and that's assuming he was real.
As for whether any of the worlds gods are actually real, that mankind has created, who knows? All anyone can do, if they want to believe, is have faith that one of them exists. So far, even he seems to be incapable of showing up and proving all the others to be false. So much for his omnipotence! 🤷🏼
Does anyone else have a rock to throw?
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Yes here is a big one: the mythical god-thing is responsible for genocide both mythical and real. This fictional book that is used to further the accepted belief of genocide is still read with glee, and used to brainwash children teaching fear and hate. Now that's a 🪨. Peace
I believe in love. You can only see the results, feel the effect of it, you almost can’t resist it, it’s what keeps creation from falling apart.
About the rock: It goes all the way back to my first year at Seminary. Here’s the question that was written on our OPEN WHITTENBURG WINDOW—also known as a half- cork board, half chalkboard.
“Could God make a boulder so heavy that God would not be able to lift it?’ .
I also believe in love, Daniel, and so does my dog, even though there are times I don’t deserve it, and as far as I’m aware my dog doesn’t know anything about the worlds gods. 🤭
As for the rock analogy, could a god be so omnipotent that that it has to rely on mere human beings to try and convince mankind of its reality?
Could a god be so omnipotent that it isn’t even capable of showing up for real to prove it’s reality?
Thank you for your comment. 🤗
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So, tell me what you believe? If there was/is No Creator of the Universe then, it’ random. It happened by chance. And humans simply bring their own meaning.
Is that what you believe?
I don’t have an answer, Daniel, on how the universe came into existence, and in reality, neither does anyone else.
What we do know is that everything is moving away from a known place in the universe that tends to support the Big Bang theory, but what happened prior to that is anyone’s guess. It’s ok to say we don’t know.
Saying I believe this, or I believe that, doesn’t make anything true until we have demonstrable evidence as proof.
Reading others thoughts and opinions in a book is totally ok, but it doesn’t make those thoughts and opinions true, even if they like to say a god told them what to say.
Thank you for your question 🤗
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Women are very intelligent, they can be ministers, Pastor, whatever pleases them. I were so happy when I finally made my move n became a minister. I will be there best I can be! With that being said, Go ladies!
Women can indeed be just as intelligent as male ministers, Rosa. Thank you for your comment. Go Rosa 🙌🏼 !
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The first woman was ordained in the Church of the Brethren in 1890. In 1797 the Brethren church ‘set back’ a member that still had a slave. The slave was set free and the children of the slave were supported by the church, and educated in basic educational instruction.
Sure, there’s still a bit of a dust-up about the Ordination of women, certainly in the RCC. God can gently nudge our brothers and sisters in Christ to move it along.
I know two women Rabbis who are so strong, spirit-driven and and God centered their fellowships are gaining members, here in the United States. All of them are working tirelessly to further the Kingdom.
PS: How do you know your dog loves you?
God created us all, fills us with hope, grace, humility and kindness.
My dog shows more compassion than many so called Christians on here. I can tell be the way he wags his tail, and licks me with excitement when he sees me. He seems to worship me. Perhaps he sees me as his god. At least he can see that I'm real. He doesn't rely on other dogs telling him I'm real🤭
How do you know your god is real? I know my dog is real, I see him physically every day.
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Lionheart, did your parents have any children that lived? You have never have any valuable contributions to make to any of these discussions.
Yes they did, Matthew, I have two living sisters. They were assigned female at birth (AFAB), and still are living as child bearers, though no longer capable due to age. Thank you for asking 🤗
Thank you for your comprehension of my contribution to this blog. I’m sorry you don’t currently see them to be of any value, and that’s totally okay. Freedom of speech in the USA (The 1st Amendment) is wonderful isn’t it? One never knows who’s life one is going to touch.
It’s totally ok for you to think you are the sole spokesperson for everyone here at The Monastery with your opinions of my contribution, it’s actually a very common attribute of narcissism.
Thank you for your contributions here, I’m sure some of your opinions will meet with the approval of others. 🤗
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