Should God have a place in public schools? One Texas school superintendent says yes, and he’s digging in for a fight with secular activists who argue his school district should not be promoting Christianity.
A Football Prayer
It all started in December of last year when the secular legal activist group Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) was made aware of student-led prayers occurring via loudspeaker.
The group sent a series of letters to Rusk Independent School District in Rusk, Texas, warning them that allowing students to deliver prayers over the loudspeaker before football games was a violation of the First Amendment. Rusk ISD is a public school district. The letter read:
“A concerned community member reported that Rusk High School begins each football home game with a student-led Christian prayer. Students have a constitutional right to be free from religious indoctrination in their public schools, including when participating in school athletic events… the prayers delivered at the Rusk HS football games are inappropriate and unconstitutional."
"Not only is the school, and thus the District, showing favoritism towards religion and coercing participation in these prayers by holding them during schools-sponsored events, but it is also providing the prayer-giver with the PA system needed to impose these prayers on attendees.”
The story soon caught the attention of local news:
"Time to Protect Our Faith"
The district's response has been led by school superintendent Grey Burton. After the FFRF sent its letter, instead of conceding any ground, Burton appeared to lean even further into Christian messaging.
In a now-deleted post, Burton explained that he intentionally inserted Christian prayers into home football games because, “if we want America to be great again then we can’t let groups or individuals continue removing God and Jesus from the fabric of our society… It’s time we started fighting to protect OUR FAITH.”
In April of this year, Rusk ISD posted an advertisement recruiting teachers and staff that listed some of the perks of working at Rusk – including a “great working environment,” “competitive salaries,” and a “strong Christian-faith based community” with “traditional values.”
Then, in July, the school district again made a Facebook post calling for “20 days of prayer” for staff and students to engage in. Each day from July 24th to August 12th is dedicated to praying for a different part of school staff.
Related: Tennessee Declares July "Month of Prayer and Fasting"
What Happens Next?
Between the public prayers over the loudspeaker, the official advertisements promoting a Christian community, and Burton’s own post about fighting for Christian faith, critics say this amounts to a classic example of religion invading the public sphere and violating the constitution.
But the district insists they’re in legal compliance with every Texas education statute, and that they’re not trampling over anyone’s First Amendment rights.
Superintendent Burton even defiantly responded to one FFRF letter informing them that “Rusk ISD will continue to allow prayer at our football games, graduation, and any other event we choose.”
What do you make of the controversy?
153 comments
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Katelynne Shouse
Time for Whacky McWackerson to lose his job. Period!
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Quinn R Amaro
And it not your place to make such brutal and uniformed opinions unless you to want to join those full of hate in eternal damnation
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Katelynne Shouse
If this reply is meant for me then......HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. He's going against Federal Law which means he needs to lose his job at minimum!
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Reverend Paula Copp
Bravo, Katelynne! You’re absolutely right!
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Rev Deborah Dunkle (Raven Wolf Song)
Oh Bother. Everyone has the right to choose as we will. It is not your right nor mine to impose our beliefs upon another who being a minor, is a captive audience and cannot simply walk away. That is not love. It is not worshipping the Lord nor is it following the teaching of Jesus. If you believe it is then you are following a false Messiah and dooming yourself
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Stephanie A Willey
Our 1st Amendment clearly says the superintendent is wrong. End of discussion. Mike drop !
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Reverend Paula Copp
You are absolutely correct! Thanks for posting this!
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Pink Clover
You know, when I first started coming here the comment section was interesting and non-judgmental. Then folks like you started coming in and spewing your nonsense. If you have a difference of opinion, no problem. But I am not at all interesting in your preaching.. I would go to church if I wanted to continue to hear your version of hate.
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Joe Stutler
The delusional can't help themselves, and their embrace of fascism is disturbing. Burton and pals are evidence that we need far better mental health care services in our nation.
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Tecla Caryl Loup
Not to mention civics/government classes for adults.
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Gary Leu
This isn't about praying. It's about staking a claim and setting up symbols stating who they are and who their community belongs to. It's gang "graffitti" that marks thier territory in an effort to claim it as thier own. And just like street gangs, these Christain nationalists do not care how this affects the other people in their territory that are not part of their group. These are the same people who want to ban books that have any reference to LGBTQ+ characters or issues. Instead of loving their neighbor, they want to ban people out of existence. They demonize anything or anyone not in their group. These are politcal moves couched in "religious freedom." This school district administrator is behaving unethically when he puts his personal political and religious opinion above professional conduct. If he wanted to organize all of that praying to accomplish whatever he is trying to do, he could easily do it outside of school in a postive uplifting way, without conflict, ethical questions, and while protetcing the rights of others. But again, this is not about religion or the practice of religion. It is politics wearing the mask of religion. The goal is poliical control.
They offer no real solutions to our nations problems. But they do demonize and blame others, often at the expense of the weakest among us, while justifying their actions by claiming religious freedom. "When all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like culture war." (Pete Buttibieg)
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
Oh yeah, sure, go ahead and be logical and intelligent. Like that's going to get you anywhere with the kkkristofascists.
They don't even care about the US Constitution other than how they can use it (or twist it, or mutilate it) to advance their kkkristofascist agenda.
They may pay lip service to other denominations and religions but in the end it's about their specific flavor of goD & jeebus and to hell with anyone who believes differently
So yeah, Gary, go ahead and approach this intellectually and logically and see where it gets you
p.s. you summed up the entire thing quite nicely, BTW. You may miss every now and then but eventually, you'll hit a head 😉
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Father Flanagan
I agree with 99% of what you said and being a non believer myself I definitely see this as pushing religion upon others without regard for what they believe. But I agree with them as far as banning anything lgb….whatever, I believe in nature and in nature homosexuality is unnatural - nature designed everything to procreate in some fashion, even a single creature/plant/etc… can reproduce but homosexual relationships Never have reproduction therefore they are unnatural and should not be taught in schools. There is also no such thing as “transgender” so that too should be banned from schools. What you want to do or how you want to live your life when you are an adult is your business so long as it doesn’t force ridiculous rules and laws upon others and harms no one but themselves. If men were meant to lay with other men then the rectum would be self lubricating like the vagina. Keep religion and sexuality out of our schools - it isn’t about “loving everyone” it’s about stopping indoctrination and brainwashing kids to accept that these things are “normal”
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Ed Izatt
Wow, there is so much misinformation in this post. Using the ability to reproduce as a qualifier for being natural is a flawed assumption. Perhaps we all should spend a little more time understanding that homosexuality appears throughout may species in nature. Here is just one study.https://books.google.com/books?id=EftT_1bsPOAC&pg=PA179
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Gary Leu
Flanagan, I don’t think that you need to worry about schools “teaching about” much of anything about LGBTQ+ issues. Schools are typically so paranoid about what they teach about human sexuality is less than the minimum approved curriculum provides. Which often leaves students uninformed. If anything is taught, it would likely be a general tolerance for individual differences. The extreme right often blames schools for “teaching” stuff like this as if it was dangerous to provide students with information. And that someone just knowing the mere facts was enough to change a person’s sexuality or gender. How silly is that?!
I wish the schools would teach about the continuum of sexuality in a mature and responsible manner. The effect of such instruction would be a greater understanding of others and maybe an opportunity to see yourself as more normal than you thought you were. Not being accepted is the primary season why LGBTQ+ kids consider and act on suicidal thoughts. Telling LGBTQ+ children that they are abnormal, broken, wrong, evil, etc. has never, ever changed the way they are. If they are told those things, we are likely to lose them, one way or another.
It’s difficult raising children. We worry about them and want them to have happy healthy lives. As parents we would love our children to follow the life trajectory we imagine for them. How great would that be?! How we respond to our children when they do not follow this path is what makes a “good parent.” I talk to many students of all ages. If I ask them if their parents love them, they say, “Um… yeah. Sure.” If I ask them if their parents like them, they often don’t know how to answer that and will often say, “I don’t know.” If I ask if their parents accept them, they’re often just quiet. I still talk to people whose parents have banished them from their homes because they are something other than straight. Are parents that desperate that they are willing to throw away their children?
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Amber Fry
Actually it's more natural than you seem to realize. Spend more time in natural sciences and you will see that it happens in pretty much all mammals somewhere along the line.
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Daniel Gray
Actually it isnt as there is no scientific evidence nor medial evidence on LGBTQ issues.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
My opinion? They want to lead prayer in school? Fine, go to the auditorium or to another room and do so with ONLY those students who wish to participate. The students who do not wish to participate should be allowed to be exempt.
In a nutshell, they are breaking the 1st amendment rights of the students who do not believe in their religion. They're cramming it down the kids' throats. Would they accept it if another religion started doing this as well? Like a Muslim teacher doing so? Or a pagan teacher leading a morning ritual every morning?
No, they would fight tooth and nail to get THOSE teachers fired. But because it's some Catholic / Christian individual(s), it's apparently "just fine".
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Nicholas J Page
I have said before that religion should not be forced onto anyone.Especially out in the open before a sporting event. So it's up to the children if they want to pray before a game or not it's up to the individual.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Prayer doesn’t belong in school unless EVERY RECOGNIZED RELIGION is included in reading prayers at football games and before school! America is not a christian nation!
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Russel A. Kester
It once was and hopefully will be again. We must replace the current, woke religion with something good, with Judeo-Christian values once again.
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Michael Hunt
Woke isn't a religion. It doesn't require blind faith to be aware of inequalities and injustices in your community and to want to fix them.
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Patricia Ann Gross
Thank you, Michael. I am woke and proud of it. I am also Christian, and am working to make this world better for those that religion has wounded (regardless of the faith community they were wounded by.) For those that want to look at history, some of the most awful atrocities were done in the name of some supreme being (very often the God we worship and Jesus Christ). You can look at the unrest in the Middle East where the Jewish and Muslim people have been killing each other for years, and go back to the Crusades where Christians and Muslims were at odds. Even the Christian Reformation had its batttles. One can be woke without claiming any single deity, but "woke" more resembles the message of Jesus than any other. Taking care of one another. Loving enemies (or those that are misunderstood so we will call them enemies).
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James Riggle-Johnson
Not everyone is Jedeo-Christian. Does that mean they are going to hell? No!
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Russel A. Kester
I didn't say anyone was going to hell. I simply stated that our nation needs to return to the positive values of our Judeo-Christian heritage.
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Ahmed Abduljabar Al-Hujazi
Is that the same Judeo-Christian heritage that imposed Christianity on the extant population, in addition to suppressing their own tribal beliefs, languages, and traditions, at the point of a gun, or the edge of a whip? Or maybe it's the same one that kidnapped children from their parents under the guise of giving them a better life with a "white" family. Your (not my) Judeo-Christian practices may have improved since our nation was established, but any religion that makes its practice a requirement to be citizen, is simply slavery under a different cloth.
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Daniel Gray
You mean like Islam does? There are thousands of documented evidence where Islam made it very clear, you ether convert, pay a massive tax, or die. So whats your point exactly?
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Russel A. Kester
Well Ahmed, I suppose that was better than Islam going through the Middle East killing Jews, Christians, Pagans, witches, gays and so many others in the name of its prophet and his God with the exception that when those professing the Christian faith did so they did so in violation of Christian beliefs not because of them.
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Lisbeth Kieran Bushey
The Inquisition and the Crusades would like a word. So would my great-grandparents, who survived the residential schools in Canada (the last one closed when my mom was a child). The European conquest of the Americas want to as well. The history of Christianity and Judaism is full of forced conversions, genocide, and bloodshed. They're no different, haven't stopped to this day, and are often worse.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Woke isn’t a religion. That’s a hollow projection, Kester. It’s also a deflection from your own religion’s malpractices and evils. There’s nothing positive about it, unless you think brainwashing and mass murder are public goods. Again Kester, there’s thousands of history books on the topic of Christian hypocrisy and wrong doing. No wonder your lot love to burn books, they reflect the truth of your lies.
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Russel A. Kester
"In his new book John McWhorter argues forcefully that the “woke” phenomenon is essentially religious and reinforces rather than combating it." https://newideal.aynrand.org/the-new-religion-of-woke/
And he's just one intelligent person who understands that woke is a new, fundamentalist religion. Compare the characteristics of a cult with the woke culture. It's truly shocking. And like any cult those who are in it, don't see it for what it is.
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Matthew Melvin Lubin Jr
Our nation's govt has never followed these positive values. Since the beginning the people at the top of the social hierarchy have used violence, bribery, deceit, and they still do. We need to get our nation to embody these positive values FOR THE FIRST TIME
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James McDunn
It is time for the American Civil Liberties Union to step in. Perhaps if their funding gets cut off for a couple of months, they will comply with the law as it is written, not as the way they wrongly interpret it.
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Daniel Gray
How even the ACLU cant overturn a scotus decision Bremerton v Kennedy
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Michael Hunt
Not with today's radical court
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Daniel Gray
No sorry Hunt, todays court is made up of Constitutionalism men and women meaning they go by what the Constitution says, not what YOU want it to say
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James Riggle-Johnson
Will these schools also be allowing Muslim prayer to be recited at the appropriate times? I have a feeling they will only allow Christian prayers. It’s not about religious freedom but Christian freedom only.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
Exactly!
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Michael Hunt
I'd be sending my kid to school with Pastafarian "prayers" and addresses from the Satanic Temple of the Church of Satan. I'm sure the school will be just as accommodating to my child's religious beliefs as they are to Christians'.
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Ahmed Abduljabar Al-Hujazi
I wonder how the staff would feel if someone suggested a morning Muslim, Hindu, or Jewish prayer. I would expect not well, but you never know (bwah, ha, ha, ha! Sorry, I couldn't keep it in any longer).
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Tareq Asfour
what’s the problem if the kids want to pray and let them pray, but need the school to as others beliefs to pray also without any restrictions either.
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Tecla Caryl Loup
Sure, let them pray. Silently.
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Rev. BH
Like before a pop quiz - No doubt Jesus will get you an A
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Colleen McAllister
I grewcup with prayer not only allowed in school but part of the daily schedule. For those who didn't want to they were simply encouraged to be still for a moment. A simple prayer of less than a minute hurt no one. The Constitution gra to us freedom OF religion not freedom FROM religion. Let the prayers stay.
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Keith Ramsey
Freedom of Religion, does include Freedom FROM religion.
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Colleen McAllister
I grew up with prayer not only allowed in school but part of the daily schedule. For those who didn't want to they were simply encouraged to be still for a moment. A simple prayer of less than a minute hurt no one. The Constitution grants to us freedom OF religion not freedom FROM religion. Let the prayers stay.
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Daniel Gray
Legal warnings from WHO, Mikeys group has NO legal authority and they cant overturn the 2022 decision by the Supreme Court that ruled "Personal prayer is permitted; No school employee can require student attendance or participation nor deny them the right to do so of their own free will" Bremerton v Kennedy so all of you who have something in knots need to calm down as the SCOTUS has spoken on this and as long as no teacher tries to force or require the kids to participate, there is nothing you or the FFRF can do about it.
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Amber Fry
Yes but you do understand that doesn't mean broadcasting prayer to the masses in a school, right? They should have every right to pray if they wish but they do not have the right to enforce it on everyone. They can take make a prayer room an option for those who are interested so it isn't infringing on the right of others to not want to be involved.
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Daniel Gray
And you understand right, that the courts have already decided this and it makes no sense for you to keep trying to resurrect a dead horse.
Newdow v. United States, 328 F.3d 466 (9th Cir. 2004)
Elk Grove Unified School District v. Newdow, 542 U.S. 1 (2004)
Newdow v US Congress June 26th 2002 328 F.3d 466 (9th Cir. 2002)
https://www.scotusblog.com/2005/08/commentary-new-pledge-decision/
In short your post is YOUR OPINION and wrong as well. It has no basis in fact nor law. So why you constantly try and imply it does makes sense only to you
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Rev Ned
Someone said “If, out of all the religions in the world, only one is true, then, logic would dictate, that none are true. That said, to hedge my bet, I have a pole arm and a sturdy neck knife to be buried with me. If the Norse religion is true, and the Valkyries carry me across the Rainbow Bridge to Valhalla, I will have weapons with which to fight the Ice Giants. I realize Evangelicals might be scared 💩 less of the 🌈 bridge. I am not!
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Steven Ferrell
What is amazing is all these other groups from the alphabet groups, blm groups, etc. all want their right to free speech in schools, but don’t want that same right to Christians.
They want to spread their demonic or hate under the 1st amendment, but OMG we can’t have God and good life living protected under the 1st amendment bet it goes against the evil the alphabet bunch want pushed on children.-
Amber Fry
They are not a religion and they are not trying to force everyone else to be like them. Big difference.
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Gary. Collins
One nation under God.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
Name one civil rights organization that has ever demanded the right to make daily announcements over the PA system.
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Daniel Gray
Name me one that has actually ASKED to do so
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Rev. BH
Steven, are "blm groups" spreading demonic hate? I thought they just didn't want to get gunned down on the streets by angry cops and Christian Nationalists. Silly me.
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Cynthia Butler
Yes prayer should be done in school, and I think that prayer should be allowed for students of all faiths.....it only takes 2 minutes to say a silent prayer...
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
But it doesn't count if nobody knows you're praying. That's why it has to be announced, over loudspeakers, standing up in class, etc. Everybody knows praying doesn't count, praying has no value, prayer affects/effects nothing...if not done in public where everyone can see how holy and better you are than them. ammirite?
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Amber Fry
Nope.
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Daniel Gray
So if you are against religion this badly JJ, WHY are you even here?
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
DG I am against anything that wants to force itself down the throat of others. as it happens, religion, specifically kkkristofascists are at fault.
the ULC says it's for everyone and all should be respected yet you, and many others come here specifically to proselytize and demean those that don't follow your kkkristofascist nationalistic dominionist propaganda.
I am there to fight the good fight, to call out those who are so self-righteous and sanctimonious as to come here and mock and demean those of other or even no, faiths
and go read you bibble because somewhere in the fairy tales is admonition to go pray in your room where only goD can hear and not do it on streetcorner where others can see you prayver. maybe read you own dam book and follow the good advice
why are YOU here?
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Daniel Gray
To make sure people like you dont try and force their error and not lawful opinions down peoples throats while trying to imply that what you are claiming is somehow fact. You have been proved wrong more times then carter has liver spots and yet here you are again.
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Daniel Gray
and as for calling out people who mock religions, it seems you do a very good job of that yourself by mocking religions. Oh but I guess its ok for you to mock religions by the terms of kkkristofascist and worse? Do you even begin to see how hypocritical you are being in doing this?
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Ari Joseph Bertine
This is a hostile and threatening thing to do to any non-Christian children in those schools. Kids already have enough on their plates without adding the social pressure of unescapable performative religion. This will be great for Christian parents and it will be hellish for non-Christian kids, which I suspect is the aim--it punishes non-Christians in the community by creating a hostile environment for their children. The silver lining is that forced religious exposure creates extremely aggressive atheists growing up with an agenda. Kids remember what made them suffer, and when they grow up they will choose careers that help them to soothe old scars. Lots of atheist civil lawyers will come of this.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
If a public school district gives in to the reactionary political inclinations of those who think that ministers, reverends, Inmans, rabbis, vodoists, and the like, should be likened to the social, political and the hard science teachers, then — and only then, should praying be recommended in our public schools - but only if and when, all other viable options have been exhausted; prayer should only be used as a last resort — when one’s immediate demise, appears inevitable. Akin to a drowning man, grasping at a close by visible floating piece of straw.
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Russel A. Kester
It's wonderful that a student led the at home football games with a prayer over the loudspeaker. Our Congress, both the House and Senate, traditionally opens with a prayer. If it's good enough for Congress, it's good enough for our nation's schools. This would have probably ended there except the fanatic organization FFRF wanted to make it an issue. I now hope every school opens each day with a student lead prayer in every school across our great land. It's way past time that our nation relearn that freedom of religion does not mean freedom from seeing or hearing from religion, especially in public where it is needed the most. Good for this Texas school district!
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Rev Deborah Dunkle (Raven Wolf Song)
I’m sorry? Did I understand correctly that in the name of Jesus you want to force feed prayer and biblical teachings upon minors??? Where in all the Bible do you find that to be Christ’s teaching??
I think you need to read the book and start understanding the message of Love
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Russel A. Kester
Deborah, this is student lead prayer. So I am not force feeding anyone anything. But you are wanting to starve students from wholesome spiritual food. I do read the Bible, biblical commentaries, and theology. I do understand love. Love is feeding God's children even as the Christ told Peter in John 21:15-17, "So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs." I don't usually quote Scripture much but since you suggested that I"read the book," I thought I would and also help you to "start understanding the message of Love."
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Michael Hunt
Whether or not it is student led, it is still being forced upon the non Christian students at that school. How would you feel if this school was requiring Islamic prayer every day? You'd be freaking out that Sharia is taking over our children. The hypocrisy is staggering.
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Daniel Gray
Makes no difference. The SCOTUS said this CAN be done as long as its a student led prayer. So deal with it
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Reverend Paula Copp
This SCOTUS lacks credibility and is an offense to our Constitution. As a pagan minister, I can go in myself and show students how to think for themselves.
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Daniel Gray
No the SCOTUS has far more credibility then you ever will have. They go by what the Constitution actually states, not by the fantasy claim you are making and thats why you dont like them
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Rev. BH
Get your "wholesome spiritual food" at home or in your church of choice, not over a loud speaker. Reminds me of 1984 with Big Brother piped everywhere. As always RAK, you seem to think there is only one religion.
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Amber Fry
Student led or not, it shouldn't be inforced by loud speaker to every other student. It's still being forced. If the students want to have a prayer gathering before class or at their lunch break then there is nothing to say they can't gather and do so. But forcing it on everyone else is a violation on non christian rights.
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Daniel Gray
SCOTUS said it can as long as its not led by anyone from the school and its led by a student. Dont care if it makes you upset as you have been over ruled by the highest court in the land.
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Tecla Caryl Loup
I don't agree. I don't believe that Congress should promote prayer, either. I could tolerate a few moments of silence for reflection or just peace & quiet before the niggling arguments of the day begin, but I firmly believe that religion should be a private matter. As a child, I was quite disconcerted when "under God" was added to the pledge of allegiance, not to mention "in God we trust" being added to our currency. That should have been the big clue for everyone regarding the blatant connection between money and organized religion. It was right up there with the moneylenders at the temple entrance. I notice that many "religious" individuals don't seem to remember that part of the New Testament.
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Daniel Gray
Supreme Court slapped down Newdow when he sued them for the same reason. As long as no specific deity is mentioned then it does not violate any law.
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taycomama
They were not money lenders at the Temple, they were money changers. Their function was to exchange coins with Caesar's image for acceptable Temple currency. This was a necessary function. Unless they were over charging for the service, there was no reason for Jesus to attack them.
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Rev'd Andrew
I'm impressed! A "mere mortal" is saying that Jesus messed up!
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Matthew Melvin Lubin Jr
Well Jesus clearly disagreed with you, who whoever wrote that scripture
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Daniel Gray
And the law clearly does not agree with you
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
so FOR the constitution when it benefits you
AGAINST the constitution when it benefits you
unsurprisingly hypocritical
unsurprisingly kkkristofascist
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Russel A. Kester
Children require guidance in all things. That's not violating the constitution, it's being parents.
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Patricia Ann Gross
But it's not the parents pushing their religion. It's the school, which may not look anything like the parent's religion. Even Christian denominations differ greatly in their interpretation of Christ's message. I doubt the message that this superintendent spews resembles my theology in any way. A Muslim student shouldn't be required to listen to "and this we ask in the name of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior" any more than you should be required to listen to a prayer given in the name of Mohammad.
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Russel A. Kester
Patricia, good post with a nice twist from student to school. However, I'll go one further and suggest that it's students reflecting community standards. The students beliefs and their expressing those beliefs must not be trampled in fear that doing their doing so will make someone uncomfortable. This pernicious idea that something is wrong if someone feels uncomfortable is hogwash. Schools are were kids from diverse backgrounds meet one another on a level playing field and get to discuss or even argue for their respective understandings which entails uncomfortable feelings. That is how they, and we as adults in the larger society, work things out.
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Patricia Ann Gross
While I agree with you in one respect, there is one important component you are missing. The prayers are being done at the behest of the school administration, and the administrators and teachers are in positions of power, which does not make it a level playing field. If it were kids sitting in a circle sharing ideas it's one thing, but this is far from that.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
forcing religion on children is child abuse and should be against the law.
forcing others to hear prayers they don't believe, while at public school, is against the law
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Russel A. Kester
JJ, parents teaching their children their religious values and history is not child abuse. Quite the opposite. It gives children a stable psychological and emotional environment to understand themselves and others. They might one day rejected those teachings, but they had the benefit of them and the stability that they bring in what is otherwise a confusing world.
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Amber Fry
Being parents is about parenting your own children, not everyone else's. Public schools are government instututions and no government institution is to be elevating and forcing any one religion over all others. If you want such a thing then parents have every right to take their kids to a private religious school where it's up to them.
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Russel A. Kester
Amber, I agree that parents should be able to send their children to private schools which is why I support universal school vouchers.
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Daniel Gray
so when the SCOTUS says you are wrong, the best you can do is call names like a little child JJ?
Newdow v. United States, 328 F.3d 466 (9th Cir. 2004)
Elk Grove Unified School District v. Newdow, 542 U.S. 1 (2004)
Newdow v US Congress June 26th 2002 328 F.3d 466 (9th Cir. 2002)
https://www.scotusblog.com/2005/08/commentary-new-pledge-decision/
In short your post is YOUR OPINION and wrong as well. It has no basis in fact nor law. So why you constantly try and imply it does makes sense only to you
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
The schools need to remove the “under god” clause from the Pledge of Allegiance since it was not in the original version. Image if we added a few words here and there to the bible or to the Koran. Some religious folks might get their undies in a wad!
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Russel A. Kester
The added words reflect what was stated and understood by our founding fathers that we are a nation under Divine Providence. The words stay.
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Robert James Ruhnke
They go, there is nothing divine about our nation and the evil its perpetrated. If you think they’re divine, then you worship an evil god. Which is something far more true than isnt.
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Daniel Gray
SCOTUS said they dont have to and slapped the whizz out of Newdow and the Freedom from Religion foundation as well. Now if you want to argue the case then feel free to go to the SCOTUS and tell them they were wrong, but get ready to look embarrassed when you get laughed out of the room in full view of the press.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Except, this isn’t student led prayer. It’s parents pushing their religion onto their kids and forcing them what to think before they can even learn to think for themselves. There’s a word for that. It rhymes with boomer. Leave it to Texas to personify the evils of sharia law with a cross and American flag as camo. Before you say anything, what Texas is doing is exactly what Muslim countries have done with their religious mandated and indoctrinated laws. Always the cheerleader for oppression, I see, Kester.
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Russel A. Kester
Oh dear, parents teaching their children good values and morals how terrible! Who do they think they are the children's parents? Oh wait, that's exactly who they are. And they do have the ethical, moral, and civic right to do so. It's THEIR children NOT the trans and queer activists'. Who's the real would be groomer? Oh ya, the ones pointing fingers at others. The trans and queer communities need to leave the children alone and let their parents be their parents.
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Michael Hunt
Then those parents can teach their children their religious beliefs outside of school instead of pushing those beliefs on the entirety of the school.
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Russel A. Kester
Those parents can decide as a community what they want for all of their children. No other student has to pray with those who are praying. But some people don't want people's faith to be seen or heard in public. Faith does belong in the public square just as much as secular humanism or atheism. But again, it's their children and they can decide.
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Rev'd Andrew
Teaching "good values and morals" is indeed commendable and one of the most important obligations incumbent upon a parent and, as their proxy, by teachers. Unfortunately the Bible fails to provide good values or morals when taken in its entirety. If we can cherry-pick, then yes, the Bible contains some gems, such as Jesus' entreaties for us to "love thy neighbor as thy self" and "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." But I would argue that teaching how to administer an abortion, or when it is permissible to rape teenage girls, or to stone people to death are "values" and "morals" that are best left to bronze-age Asian goat-herders.
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Robert James Ruhnke
“Oh dear, parents teaching their children good values and morals how terrible!”
They’re teaching them to hide their bigotry and hatred. Behind scripture. Nothing moral about it. Of course you’re okay with this.
“Who do they think they are the children's parents? Oh wait, that's exactly who they are. And they do have the ethical, moral, and civic right to do so.” They have no right to corrupt a person’s way of thinking before they even learn how to think. Hiding their bigotry behind “parenting” is no excuse.
“It's THEIR children NOT the trans and queer activists'. Who's the real would be groomer?” Them, the Christian fundamentalist parents who are constantly brainwashing their children to accept evil things done in their cult’s name. There’s just LGBTQ+ activists, the Other are just bogeymen phantasms you play victim to. These same activists are advocating for life and sex education taught by properly trained and educated individuals. Not religious lunatics pushing outdated nonsense the students aren’t going to listen to in first place.
“Oh ya, the ones pointing fingers at others. The trans and queer communities need to leave the children alone and let their parents be their parents.” You religious loons need to leave trans and queer youth the hell alone, it’s because of radical monsters like yourself they’d rather not live than see another day. Their parents should be parenting, oh wait, these are the same people who can’t talk about adult topics because their brain dead religion has kept them infantilized and willfully ignorant. To top it off these are the same people with a two working parent home with no time to parent their kids. The same ones who push the parenting duties off on schools till it suits them. What you’re promoting is only series of limited cookie cutter choices which don’t work in the real world setting up these students for failure. Kester you’re a know nothing who is constant desperate need to show off he knows nothing. Some day I pray you’ll wake up and realize all this hick girl meanness doesn’t work and you’ll grow from it.
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Daniel Gray
Oh dear Ruhnke, guess you didnt read the story where its a STUDENT led prayer and as such according to the Newdow Decisions from the SCOTUS
Newdow v. United States, 328 F.3d 466 (9th Cir. 2004)
Elk Grove Unified School District v. Newdow, 542 U.S. 1 (2004)
Newdow v US Congress June 26th 2002 328 F.3d 466 (9th Cir. 2002)
https://www.scotusblog.com/2005/08/commentary-new-pledge-decision/
In short your post is YOUR OPINION and wrong as well. It has no basis in fact nor law. So why you constantly try and imply it does makes sense only to you
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, you just wrote, using a lot of words, that parents are not fit to raise their own child and to instill good values in them and that the trans and queer communities are able to do so. What unbelievable hubris! Let parents parent children and everyone else leave them to do so without interference.
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Keith Ramsey
Your posts comes across as illogical. You say that FFRF is fanatical, what does that make you with your posts? This school is right in the Bible Belt. Growing up in the Bible Belt... all businesses in the small towns, outside the gas stations had to close by 9PM. Many were not allowed to be open on Sundays. There were these laws called "BLUE LAWS".
And many of the Churches do everything they can to force their religious beliefs on others. It is wrong and goes against the Constitution and what it stands for. That is one of several reasons why people moved here from those countries more than 200 years ago.
Sorry, sir, there are a number of the things you are proposing and seem to be pushing for that violate the Constitutional beliefs of others.
It's way past time that Christian Nationalists relearn that freedom of religion DOES mean freedom from seeing or hearing from religion, especially in public where it is NOT needed. Your statements insinuate that people can't be good or have morals without religion, this has been incorrect for decades.
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Daniel Gray
Newdow v. United States, 328 F.3d 466 (9th Cir. 2004)
Elk Grove Unified School District v. Newdow, 542 U.S. 1 (2004)
Newdow v US Congress June 26th 2002 328 F.3d 466 (9th Cir. 2002)
https://www.scotusblog.com/2005/08/commentary-new-pledge-decision/
In short your post is YOUR OPINION and wrong as well. It has no basis in fact nor law. So why you constantly try and imply it does makes sense only to you and the FFRF is a group of fanatics as they have been slapped down so many times by the courts on this issue that they should have brain trauma by now, and yet they continue even though they have never won any such case.
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Dominique D Sweat
i feel this in so many ways back in my hight school days they stated i couldnt pray or ewven mention God or Jesus but it was okay for other students to mention thier God and i always carried me a bible thats hos i became known as the Preacher man to alll the students and well respected and got suspended 5 times and when they realize that wasnt going to stop me they started this in school suspendention and once that didnt work they thrreaten me with not graudating on time but i did
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
You can’t fix stupid. But you CAN fire it. Or not sell it cakes. And not hire it. Or evict it. Or not rent to it. Or ridicule it. Or just shun it.
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Daniel Gray
Yea right Zerp. A school board tried that with a football coach and they are STILL paying him back for lost wages/benefits/cleaning his record and giving him his job back no matter if they liked it or not. Or are you intentionally refusing to look at Kennedy v Bremerton 2022 597_US where in a 6-3 decision the SCOTUS ruled your "advice" was not worth the passing of gas on a high wind day.
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Sylvia Mcgibbon
If the gays and bi’s and trans can get their agenda in schools ,why can’t we have god.?
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Amber Fry
What agenda? They are not trying to indoctrinate everyone else into anything as certain sects of Christianity has been. All they want is to not bullied for who they are. They are not trying to force anyone else to be like them.
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Rev. BH
Sylvia, please explain the "gay and bi and trans agenda". Here's the definition of agenda to help you: "a list of items to be discussed at a formal meeting."
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Daniel Gray
allowing Men to use female dressing rooms (and yes women and girls have been raped by these so claimed transvestites) Getting people fired for not calling them what they were born as, man or woman. Getting people fired for not using the gender of choice for that day? You want me to continue?
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Morten Fordsmand
I recall how a christian kindergarten embedded a deep resentment in me towards trusting in any formalized religion.
So trying to force the young into religion wil only work on the stupid and the meek.
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Merlin
What is their budget to supply pray cloths and Virgin Mary effigies?
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Rafael de Jesus Gutierrez Duarte
Im proud of this school and the school district. We need prayer to go back to school and everywhere in the United States. Our Constitution allows for free exercise of religion. The first amendment allows free expression. We need to repent of our wicked ways and bring the Word of God back to school and ask God for his blessings and every area of our country. “One nation under God”
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Rev. BH
Rafael, which God do you suggest? Shiva? Zeus? Apollo? Osiris? Jupiter? The Earth Mother? Cernunnos? Greg Abbott?
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Theresa C. Marquess
The following is the FIRST AMENDMENT: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
It protects the principal's right to free speech as well as it protects everyone's right to free speech.
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Amber Fry
By forcing everyone to listen they are allowing for that establishment. Nobody is saying take away their right to believe or pray. Just that they shouldn't be forcing it on everyone else. There is no reason why they cannot take it to another room and pray or pray quietly rather than force it on everyone else. One person's rights ends where it breaches the rights of another person.
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Daniel Gray
consistently wrong Amber
Newdow v. United States, 328 F.3d 466 (9th Cir. 2004)
Elk Grove Unified School District v. Newdow, 542 U.S. 1 (2004)
Newdow v US Congress June 26th 2002 328 F.3d 466 (9th Cir. 2002)
https://www.scotusblog.com/2005/08/commentary-new-pledge-decision/
In short your post is YOUR OPINION and wrong as well. It has no basis in fact nor law. So why you constantly try and imply it does makes sense only to you
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Patricia Ann Peeples
I Believe Prayer Needs to Be in the school for covering protection over our children and to allow children to know that GOD IS REAL AND THAT THEY CAN TRUST AND BELIEVE IN HIM 🙏🙏🙏
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Robert James Ruhnke
We’ve had 20 years of prayer and 20 years of shot up kids. Seems like prayer is a wasted easy thing to do, where as getting guns off the streets would be harder, but worth it. work. Bullets ending lives is real, prayer does nothing. Grow up.
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Daniel Gray
How about YOU grow up. The Bruin decision by SCOTUS clearly shows you are wrong and by your post you really dont care to worry about you being wrong so long as it fits your opinion and agenda.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
"... students to deliver prayers over the loudspeaker..."
so prayers to Allah, Satan, Vishnu, you'd be okay with that as well? or do you really mean just your flavor of goD?
because if you don't want your kids hearing a prayer to SATAN or ALLAH over the loudspeaker, on public school grounds, then no one else has to hear them in praise of your goD.
it's quite simple, you allow any and all or none at all
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Maria
Personally, I feel that schools or any other institution that involves our kids, should NOT promote any of their personal beliefs or preferences on our children! These are NOT their kids and parents need to maintain control of this!
Whether it’s religion, culture, sexual identity/preference, etc, it’s a personal and PRIVATE choice and should NOT be taught in schools! And ALL educational institutions need to respect that!
In fact, I believe that parents should be allowed to make surprise visits, and be able to sit in a classroom and see first hand what is being taught to our classrooms. It seems like our children are being groomed and brainwashed to think the way teachers think!
With that said, I’m all for reciting The Pledge of Allegiance in all schools. Living in this country is probably the only common denominator these kids have. And I’d be ok with my child learning to respect our flag and country as they should.
This country is too diverse and has so many things that separate us. We need to unify our children NOT divide them and we need parents to take control of their children, it’s their right, and the education system needs to respect that!
Teachers need to teach math, science, history, art, home economics, workshop, etc and that’s it! And they need to RESPECT a parent’s rights to raise their kids the way they say fit!
Will not be debating.
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Julie Armstrong
Let's look back, our Country was in a better place when we had prayer and moments of silence in school. We use to stand every morning and say the Pledge to our Flag. We had more UNITY, in our country. Families were actually families. If you go to other countries and disrespect their customs, and beliefs, well you would be jailed, executed, deported.If you come to the USA for freedom, then follow our rules and respect us. In moments of silence pray to your on GOD. When standing for the Flag, STAND, you came here because of our Flag, so respect it and stand. Our for fathers built this Country .....One Nation Under GOD. So yes prayers in school I agree. When a prayer is said for us and you don't believe in our prayer, say your own. Prayer is said in silence. He may announce it over loud speaker, yet the students can say their personal prayer to themselves.
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David Lee Jordan
Yes it does belong in school and if anyone does not want to participate they have that option.
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Marcia Ann Ridgeway-Mensen
THANK GOD for Grey Burton! I pray that God will give him enough strength to continue standing. Thank you Grey Burton and may God bless you abundantly.
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Marcia Ann Ridgeway-Mensen
THANK GOD for Grey Burton! I pray that God will give him enough strength to continue standing. Thank you Grey Burton and may God bless you abundantly.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
apparently your goD didn't give him the strength to leave his comments, instead he deleted them. so much for you heroic profit, eh?
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Daniel Gray
wrong again JJ. It was the mods who removed the comments, not God.
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Walter J. Holbrook
There is a difference in God's word in the classroom and self-righteousness being performed in the classroom. Stop trying to force God on others. He gave us a choice. Not man
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Aaron L Cox
Demonic and Pagan are two different creatures and are not interconnected. Keep in mind that "Satan" is related to Edonite Religions not Pagan. The Demonizing of paganism comes from a darker time in Christianity where the path of Christ was ignored and Global Domination through fear and murder took its place. Many sects of Christianity still hold Convert or else mentality. Where Christ laid out convert through love as the guide post and corner stone of his faith. Christianity needs to go back to the right path or it will fail.
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Amber Fry
I have no problem with individuals taking a moment to pray if they feel the need but as a public institution it shouldn't be singling out and elevating any one religion. Period. Everyone has a right to their beliefs.Nobody has a right to make any one religion more important than others and they certainly shouldn't be taking precidence in a government instutuion. Christians have the same rights as anyone else of any other religion. Stop trying to take over.
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Eric J Wiggins
The religions of the world are scared. They realize the people are waking up to their indoctrination and fantasy. They want to start controlling young peoples thoughts at as early an age as possible. Sooner or later the modern objective world will leave them behind. Can't be too soon for my liking.
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Melaine Rae Thompson
If this was a Christian school it would be fine, however it isn’t. If they want to do a moment of silence to allow everyone to prey, or not prey, in whichever religion they follow, then that is fine.
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Quinn R Amaro
I understand this and I do agree that this nation only exists because of those in the standing for and with God. Now we need to look at it from the devil's point of view: I WSNT YO CONTROL THE SOULS OF THOSE WHO DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE WORD OF GOD. How is this done? By controlling the minds of other's so the lost souls will become a team against the Word of God--against that which they have ZERO comprehension. Simply, why? The only reason why they react as they do is because the devil had led them to think they are smarter than others. Simple solution: let others live their lives as they chose to and stop thinking YOU are a god.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
So you’re saying that your “devil” is stronger than your “god” and has more influence over people. Hmmm…
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Mark P. Bender
Wrong with Man right with God?
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Andrew Sonin
The First Amendment giveth, and the First Amendment taketh away. On one hand, kids have a right to be free from religious indoctrination in a government run school. On the other hand, prayer is protected speech.
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Amber Fry
The cut off is when that protected speech is forced on others. They have a right to their faith and to prayer. They do not have a right to force it on others. That's the point. Do it quietly or make a time and place where those who want to can go do it and leave others in peace.
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Daniel Gray
Wrong on a consistent basis Amber SCOTUS clearly states you are wrong
Newdow v. United States, 328 F.3d 466 (9th Cir. 2004)
Elk Grove Unified School District v. Newdow, 542 U.S. 1 (2004)
Newdow v US Congress June 26th 2002 328 F.3d 466 (9th Cir. 2002)
https://www.scotusblog.com/2005/08/commentary-new-pledge-decision/
In short your post is YOUR OPINION and wrong as well. It has no basis in fact nor law. So why you constantly try and imply it does makes sense only to you
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Anglia Key
For the constitution to be upheld for everyone, Christians have rights to. If the "groups" choose not to participate, that's their right. Taking away Christians' right to publicly pray is taking away our rights as well. God is everywhere, even if you choose not to believe.
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Amber Fry
Unfotunately that is putting Christian rights above everyone else's. They have their rights but that doesn't include forcing it on others. There is no reason to be broadcasting it on the loudspeakers. There is equally no reason why they cannot make a time and space for those who want to pray to go pray. Equal rights incudes giving people of other religions or no religion peace as well.
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Daniel Gray
Amber do you even care that you have been proved wrong more times then Carter has liver spots? Do you even care that your opinion has not been upheld by the courts or the Constitution or any other law? or are you just constantly trying to force your opinion on everyone by doing the same thing you are complaining about?
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Daniel Gray
Ok ONE LAST TIME. It makes no difference what some in here are complaining about. The US Supreme Court has already decided this issue and they do not agree with a lot of the complainers in here. Its past time for you to put on your big people pants and stop whining as there is NO way you are going to overturn the US Supreme Courts decisions, so why waste the time and energy in complaining about something you cant and wont be able to change?
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Rev. BH
A lot of the "complainers" in here seem to get a lot more thumbs-up votes than you and certain other angry contributors. .Amber is always thoughtful and courteous. I prefer her comments over Clarence Thomas', Samuel Alito's, Amy Coney Barrett's and the rest of your secular gods. They don't seem to be bringing you peace.
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Daniel Gray
Oh so THATS why you are here, you just want someone to give you a thumbs up so it justifies your beliefs. And I bet that you dont seem to understand that a vast majority of the thumbs up they receive are given BY THEMSELVES! Its called upvoting.
And I am not here to get people to like my posts unlike you seem to be. I am here to stop the massive misinformation that a lot of people post here with facts and links to prove them wrong.
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Lisbeth Kieran Bushey
The words were added during the Red Scare because of lobbying from groups such as the Knights of Columbus, it has nothing to do with the Founding Fathers at all. It was added for a xenophobic reason and the phrase should be removed from our currency and the Pledge of Allegiance because it makes an establishment of religion by the government that everyone has to do. It's also still xenophobic and does not respect the religion of others and their rights to not have one religion forced on them - it's said everywhere and everyone uses money.
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James Malina
This is father James or minister James. Page ##51 of the federalist papers defends the first amendment. By saying, and I quote," there shall be no law declared to the people to abridge the right to assemble and worship!!!!!" The federalist papers were written to explain the basis of the United States constitution. Samuel Adams, chief justice John Jay and Alexander Hamilton were the authors. Our freedom to worship and ( pray) is granted in the first amendment. All my blessings, my child
Minister James or father
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Minister for the Kingdom
Minister Ralph Krebbs, I can remember when i went to Oklahoma. I was very young then about 3rd grade. The school i went to in my hometown started each day with Prayer at school and then exercises before classes. I found this a warming start to my day. My household did not practice this at home so, i was met with the ability to pray to my God. I really don't know why this activity stopped. In my own personal relationship with Jesus Christ, He taught me much during that time. We have only one God. The God of all Gods, if there is such a thing. Once asked. Would I grant my children to pray and study the Bible in school? i said yes! I would help students understand what Christ taught all people: plus not to suffer the little children. I love you all! Minister for the Kingdom
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Daniel Gray
How astounding. You have a lot of people in here that are going nutz when a group with absolutely no standing (this is for the people who like to post to see themselves on the net) Legal Standing means you must actually LIVE in the area you are speaking of and you can show actual harm that would be done to you if this is allowed to continue. Not one of Mikey's group live in this area nor can they show how this is harming them in any way, as such they have no legal standing to even file a complaint. They have been sued for doing this so many times that Mikey has had to relocate to a smaller building and have his members join via a zoom call as they cant even afford to have an office. In fact all his legal complaints are being done in the office of his attorney who is doing it for free since they cant even afford to pay the attorney. And THIS is the group you want to back?
Again I have repeatedly requested you show when and where the 1st Amendment clearly states Separation of church and state, or better yet show exactly WHERE this term is even located in the Constitution, you can and you wont because it isnt there. So go ahead and keep complaining and I and others will continue to laugh each and every time you get taken to the woodshed with facts.
Najah Tamargo-USA I truly believe schools are for education, not indoctrination! It's fine if your child is attending a "religious" school, but it has no place in public schools. Religious beliefs should be taught at home and in the church of your choice.
Newdow v. United States, 328 F.3d 466 (9th Cir. 2004)
Elk Grove Unified School District v. Newdow, 542 U.S. 1 (2004)
Newdow v US Congress June 26th 2002 328 F.3d 466 (9th Cir. 2002)
https://www.scotusblog.com/2005/08/commentary-new-pledge-decision/
In short your post is YOUR OPINION and wrong as well. It has no basis in fact nor law. So why you constantly try and imply it does makes sense only to you