Was the opening ceremony of the 2024 Olympic Games a Satanic ritual mocking Christianity?
That’s what some religious leaders and other critics are arguing after an opening ceremony in Paris that pushed artistic boundaries. The ceremony featured some eyebrow-raising imagery, including what appeared to be a drag queen recreation of the Last Supper, a pale horse some say is straight of Revelation, and prominent bullhorns, which detractors allege was a secret nod to a Canaanite fertility god.
These scenes have prompted a global debate: was the Olympic Games’ opening ceremony intentionally Satanic and anti-Christian, or simply an expression of avant-garde art?
Last Supper Outrage Goes Viral
The controversy began almost immediately during the opening ceremony, when evangelical commenters online noticed peculiar imagery – both overt and subtle – that they objected to.
Perhaps most notably was what many believed to be a recreation of Leonardo da Vinci’s depiction of The Last Supper, which replaced Jesus with a woman and some of the apostles with drag queens:
The Last Supper image is considered sacred in Christianity, as it represents the moment that Jesus announces to his disciples that he is prepared to die for the sins of humanity.
Soon, the formal condemnations began rolling in. The French Bishops’ Conference, which oversees all Catholic bishops in France, said in a statement that the opening ceremony included “scenes of mockery and derision of Christianity.”
Bishop Robert Barron of Minnesota, an influential American Catholic voice, called it a “gross mockery.”
Prominent voices like Elon Musk and former President Donald Trump also added their objections.
Wrong Painting?
As outrage grew and accusations of Satanism were thrown around, Olympics organizers sought to clarify their intentions, insisting it wasn’t a reference to Christianity at all.
Rather, they said, the scene from the opening ceremony was based on a 17th century painting by Jan Harmensz van Biljert called The Feast of the Gods, which hangs in Magnin Museum in France. That painting depicts numerous Greek gods summoned around a table on Mount Olympus in celebration of the marriage of Thetis and Peleus.
This Twitter thread challenging the Last Supper resemblance has garnered over 10 million views:
However, other experts weren't convinced. “The idea of the central figure with a halo and a group of followers on either side — it’s so typical of ‘The Last Supper’ iconography that to read it in any other way might be a little foolhardy,” said Sasha Grishin, an art historian at Australian National University.
Satan Comes to Paris?
But that wasn't the only element that caught the attention of Christians worldwide. Everything from a red, headless Marie Antoinette to a rider atop a pale horse to a gold bull – interpreted as a nod to the Canaanite god of fertility – was called pagan or Satanic.
“I remember when the opening ceremonies of the Olympic Games were a grand spectacle of human athleticism. Now it is a demonic pagan ritual,” said Bill Mitchell, host of YourVoice America. “Better start getting ready for the rapture, or at the least building a very big boat.”
That sentiment was echoed by scores of others online, who registered their outrage at what they perceived as pagan and demonic imagery intended to make a mockery of the Christian faith on a global stage.
Let the Games Begin
Of course, not everyone agrees with that opinion. Many viewers saw the opening ceremony simply as an interesting production full of nods to French culture and the ancient Greek origins of the games.
Related: The Secret Religious History of the Olympics
The French are known for pushing artistic boundaries, and also have a strong drag culture. Is it possible that the ceremony was not intentionally offensive, and instead just very French?
“Between this and all the rain it’s the moodiest opening ceremony ever,” offered one online commenter. “Perfectly French.”
Finally, some people managed to poke a little fun at the whole discourse:
What is your reaction? Do you think the opening ceremony was mocking Christianity, or is the controversy overblown?
352 comments
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Parson Golden
No, but the actions of Christians continue to mock Christianity on a regular basis.
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Michael Holland
People need to learn America is not the only country in the world and christianity is not the only religion. Americans are so full of themselves!
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Maria
Americans are amazing people! If you’re American shame on you. If you’re not then too bad….
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Rev “D”
ALL PEOPLE are amazing! Too bad to blind to see that.
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ServantOfJudgement
MAGA people are amazing D? Trump is amazing?
If not amazing they're definitely resilient.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Maria, don’t you have a News Max or Fox News comment section to haunt? We have enough christofascists here in this blog as it is. Not that I’m trying to gate keep, just asking a general question.
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Russel A. Kester
No Robert, that was not an innocent question. It was a snide and rude comment. I'm glad Maria is here and look forward to more commentary from her.
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Dorothy Hawkins
My thoughts on the Olympic ceremonies: Very French!
The fear-mongering and marginalization of the "others" signifies to me that people's beliefs go beyond rational thought...in just about any area of life. Time to re-think our thinking on the whole.
We're ONE species - one FAMILY: the human family. Jesus taught people to love one another - so I wonder what's up with all the hate, people?
All religious leanings were preceeded by some other religious leanings throughout time. Can we acknowledge each other's humanity? That's the challenge, in my view.
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Maria
It’s good against evil in this world. But when children are exposed to some of the ludicrous things that are going on in this world, then that’s when I get upset and draw the line.
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Maria
It’s good against evil in this world. But when children are exposed to some of the ludicrous things that are going on in this world, then that’s when I get upset and draw the line.
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April B
Maria, I’m not discrediting your opinion in any way. But, if you were watching the opening ceremony with kids, why not just use it as a teaching moment? Or a learning opportunity? Sometimes our emotions take over instantly clouding our judgement.
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Maria
It’s good against evil in this world. But when children are exposed to some of the ludicrous things that are going on in this world, then that’s when I get upset and draw the line.
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Rev “D”
Please stop using “children” as your excuse for your bigoted rhetoric. It is pretty pathetic seeing as a parent can turn off the tv if their child is so exposed.
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Russel A. Kester
"D" then keep the trans and queer communities out of our schools, our libraries, and our parades. You are trying to make the invader the victim. Hardly so! Stay in your own community. Children are not an excuse, they are the demographic the trans and queer activists are targeting to propagandize. Parents and society as a whole has every legitimate right to oppose such efforts and affronts to their values and beliefs.
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Rev “D”
Out of schools? So a transkid should not learn now? Libraries? Who for ex a library to accept a trans book reader? No one. Parades? Hmm, well you have your parades regardless of what others may think, they can have theirs regardless of what others may think. No one forces you to attend their parade. Don’t like it, don’t go. As for parents, their choice if their kid attends a library book reading, or parade. As for seeing a trans kid in school, I seem to recall some like yourself said similar about brown & black children back in 60s. Go to your church, worship your god, isolate from any exposure that offends you. But you have zero right demand others comply to your restrictions on who they are.
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Russel A. Kester
D, there you go broadening your accusations against me from my statement that the trans and queer communities (activists really) need to stay away from people's children to accusing me of being a racist. Pathetic sophistry. Stick to the topic. These antics are not about education, they're about indoctrination. Stop trying to put queer ideas into children's heads before they can even spell. Those who do so are terrible human beings. Go live your lives and leave people's children alone. It's that simple.
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Dawn
The problem with children is their parents. Lack of and poor parenting creates the issue. If one thinks that by shielding children from others is the answer, they’re missing an educational moment and potentially creating future issues for the child.
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Russel A. Kester
Lisbeth, it seems your statement about people with two spirits in North America Indian cultures is not necessarily shared by Indians themselves, "Although two-spirit implies to some a spiritual nature, that one holds the spirit of two, both male and female, traditional Native Americans/First Nations peoples view this as a Western concept." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-spirit#
Trans activists are forever trying to rewrite everyone's history to prove terrible theories that should've been properly criticized and rejected as soon as they were presented.
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Russel A. Kester
Dawn, I tried to cancel the comment made to Lisbeth that posted here. Just ignore it. As to responding to your comment. Horse apples. Let parents be the children's parents and keep trans and queer activists away. Simple.
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Rev “D”
Once again the christians that hijacked so many pagan holidays and other religions’ symbols is all upset over a display that clearly does not infringe nor insult on their beliefs. Boohoo, stop all the whining all the time christians! No one is persecuting you, just your own pastors fleecing you and your chosen god since you are born with sin. So unless christians want to give back all they stole from religions before them, cut the bull. So sensitive, here is a tissue. I’m watch Homer Simpson and the Sopranos that really copies a certain artist’s rendition made 1,495 years after a magician named jesus walked around. SMDH.
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Tareq Asfour
well well said.
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Christine
everything is all about meeeeeeeeeeeeee. There's no way this reference wasn't about meeeeeeeeeeeee. Meeeeeeeeeeee. Mmmmmmmm yes meeeeeeeeeeee. No other cultures exist but mine and satanists
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George S Guida
Yep. Ignorance promotes ignorant behavior. So many so called Christians butt hurt over something they can not understand. They aren't capable of realizing "their" religion is a mashup of many other religious systems assembled by a Roman Emperor in 365AD. With unlimited information resources at our fingertips and they choose to remain in the Dark Ages. (and angry)
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Russel A. Kester
George, I think you misjudge Christians and Christianity's work in historical-biblical criticism and give too much credence to other sources with an agenda to disprove the Christian faith.
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Brien
I guess if you are a toxic zealot then everything mocks your beliefs. I don't believe anyone set out to mock anything, I just thought the ceremony was terrible. The worst Olympic opening I have ever seen.
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Dawn
Yup! I saw it, didn’t care for it, never once thought ‘Last Supper’. Only now aware of the backlash. What I find..interesting..is that some of it seemed Pagan and didn’t christianity steal from Paganism?
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Lady Mutt Cat
It WAS Pagan. A good, old fashioned Bacchanalia.
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Maria
The opening ceremony of the Olympics absolutely mocked Christianity! I’m not Christian and I felt it was offensive! And absolutely not needed! Personally I’m sick and tired of this LBGTQ crap! If you’re not male or female why the hell do you need to tell the whole damn world?! I don’t go around advertising that I’m a woman! And there are only two genders, male and female! All else is not normal! Instead of trying to ram your BS on us and children, get some psychiatric help! I never ever had any problems with the LBGTQ community until they started ramming it down our throats! You are all making people hate you more than ever before! It’s backfiring! Wake up!
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Alan Meunier
I can tell who didn't pay attention to the humanities in high school or college.
The opening ceremony was NOT the last supper (by Davinci) but was "The Feast of the Gods" by Jan Harmensz van Bijlert. It is the Olympian Gods (hence the Olympics maybe?) celebrating Thetis ands Peleus wedding with Apollo crowned at the center of the table.and Dionysus in the foreground. Reading IS fundamental and yes, people have to get a GRIP!
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Maria
Whatever painting it was, it wasn’t necessary and it was in bad taste.
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Rev “D”
Maria- in your opinion. And as we know opinions are like arses, everyone has one. As for psychiatric help you demand for others, its obvious by your rant about how others need to conform to your world views or face repercussions, needs some serious mental health time to get over yourself.
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Father Flanagan
And that would be your aggressive confrontational “opinion” of her opinion which she should be free to express about the subject without being attacked for it. So sick of these virtue signaling “comment” bullies who hide behind keyboards and tell us how bad of people we are for not accepting depravity and sickness.
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Rev Big Al
Agree
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ServantOfJudgement
Alan, biljert copied Davinci hundreds of years later. It's a known fact. It's history. Biljert corrupted the last supper first.
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Russel A. Kester
That makes sense. When I viewed the two, I thought they looked very similar. Them these drag queens or trans person, whatever they were, come along and up the ante and further desecrate a sacrament. Thanks.
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Patricia Ann Gross
Russel, Drag and trans are two completely different things. Drag queens are typically men dressed as women for comedic entertainment, and transgender people are those who believe they should be allowed to exist as the/a gender they were not assigned at birth. A few drag queens transition, because they feel most comfortable as women. Robin WIlliams as Mrs. Doubtfire was not trans, but a man playing a character. BTW. there are also drag kings (or women dressed as men), but for some reason that isn't so unusual any more. I say any more, because I was required to wear dresses to go to (public) school until the sixth grade.
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Daniel Gray
And neither one should be allowed to mock someones religion
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Robert James Ruhnke
When your religion is a cult of murderous thieves it deserves every derision possible. All infestation never last forever.
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Russel A. Kester
Patricia, thanks. I did actually know all of those things, but stated my comment the way I did because I didn't know if they were all drag queens of if it was a mix. I didn't want to assume any of the participants identities.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
Dearest Maria, as the mom of a transgender daughter I can assure you that this is not “LGBTQ crap.”
I very much appreciate that you were not as hostile towards my child prior to meeting them/getting to know them/trying to walk a mile in their shoes. But I’m sad that you think my child is trying to “ram something on us and on children.”
My dear, kindly seek an education on what being a member of the LGBTQIA2S+ is and perhaps a psychiatrist could help you with your anger issues. They are not becoming on you.
Oh, and do you have the same feelings towards persons of color? Differing religions?
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Russel A. Kester
Elizabeth, I'm gay and have lived with gays, straights, and drag queens. One is born male or female. Period. One might suffer from gender dysphoria just as their are people who suffer from believing that they're arm is not theirs, that it belongs to someone else. This condition is called somatoparaphrenia and is a neurological condition that can cause people to believe that a limb belongs to someone else. Gender dysphoria is a similar condition. Kindly seek an education.
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Reverend Paula Copp
If people are born either male or female, how do you explain intersexed people, those people who have the genitalia of both sexes? The thing about the LGBTQIA+ community is that we can be who we are, not who you think we should be. If you can’t, you don’t belong in the community.
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Russel A. Kester
Paula, intersex has been explained over and over again. It is a genital deformity. Doctors can determine the actual sex based on the person's genes, XX or XY. It is increasing difficult to get factual information as more and more medical practitioners are pressured to 'find' legitimacy for a third sex.
I belong to the LGB community. The rest of those letters are illegitimate hangers on. They should form their own groups and leave the LGBs alone. If you belong to any of those other letter, then, no, we do not belong to the same community. If you do belong in the LGB community, then pull yourself together and stop being influenced by terrible ideologies.
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Rev. Diana
Russel, you might want to do some reading about Compton's Cafeteria and the Stonewall Inn before you open your mouth. You have the freedom to come out of the closet because of trans people.
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Russel A. Kester
Diana, you are most about Stonewall. I've listened to documentary videos interviewing people who were there at the start and the drag queen belief is revisionist history by trans and queer activists. And the famous photo of the drag queen there was taken later. Watch some documentaries and get the actual facts before you open your mouth.
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Rev Big Al
I agree with you I have no problem at all with the LGB, it is all the other carp that unfortunately come with that.
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Robert Gagnon
Sex organs exist for only one purpose in procreation. Intersex is a deformity, not another option. Have yet to find a documented case where intersex is fully functional as both male and female. Regardless of xy chromosomes. Whichever set of organs are actually functional for reproduction is normally the sex assigned and the non contributing surgically removed. To do otherwise would be to sterilize the person in question. In cases where neither are functional, the prominent sex is usually followed. In the case of Smoothies, (no genitalia at all), It's necessary plumbing repair until older Unless parents want a girl. To call a birth defect proof that there is more than one sex, is the same as saying clef palate proves there are better ways to smile.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Not a bully, my rear, Gags. You basically said every reductive outdated thing there is to say about the human body. Never had a cade been so badly put. Intersex shows that there is more than just XY. These are biological anomalies which show that our species doesn’t have a cookie cutter template you’re projecting. As per usual, you’re Wrong, Gags.
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Robert Gagnon
Thank you for agreeing. Anomalies are exactly what they are. Non typical, meaning irregular, some would say deformities. We are not a slave to our DNA or fate. But in the matter of reproduction there are only male and female. Anything else is an anomaly as you pointed out.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Yes, its an anomaly. Yet we don’t see them the same way and don’t agree as to how we see them. So save it. my tone suggests it’s just another part of the human experience. One in which a person shouldn’t be judged for it, as it shows the human experience isn’t cut and dry or black a white. They’re more common than they aren’t. Your tone is one of castigation and judgement. To shun and bully. They’re anomalies which show sex and gender are an spectrum and not a binary. Humans are not defined by their ability to procreate alone. We are not bound by fate, our DNA, biology, and our ability to reproduce. You would have it so to take away rights from people who don’t fit your superficial standards, Gags. No thanks.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Kester, you don’t get to tell people to seek education because all you preach is outdated, obsolete, and gaslit based opinions you try to dress up as science. All those hours around drag queens and still have only tacky opinions? Sad really.
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Robert James Ruhnke
The only one ramming anything anywhere is you with your hardcore opinion. The ceremony had nothing to do with Christianity and was a reenactment of a painting of a bachanalia, a party dedicated to Bachus or Dionysus. One of my chief deities in my personal pantheon. Gender is a spectrum, meaning more than man and woman. Get over it. They’re just trying to exist on their terms. Like anybody else.
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Russel A. Kester
The performance had everything to do with the last super and merely replaced the disciples with queered pagan images as a blasphemous sacrilege. Gender is not a spectrum, it's binary.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Wrong, Jester. That blue man in the middle was of Bachus, not Christ. Gender IS a spectrum, and I see you only ever expressing the catty side of its nature. Again, the Olympics have nothing to do with Christianity. Your perversion of them is just your silly little mind with nothing better to do.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
How do you solve a problem like Maria? Maria, honey, has anyone ever stated that you, as a straight woman were going to hell? Or should go to hell? Or that they wouldn't serve you because you were straight? Imma say, NO.
In fact what I believe about you is that you are quite likely a Karen, one who gets belligerent when no properly served, respected or made to wait. So it's no surprise that you would get all agro about gay people being proud and defiant about their identity. After all, it's straight (probably kkkristofascist and republican) people like you that go around literally, hating all things they personally don't approve of.
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Russel A. Kester
JJ, that is a personal attack on Maria and not cool. I'm gay and agree with Maria's thoughts; especially how the behavior of the trans and so-called queer community (another term they appropriates from gays and lesbians). I also hold to the Christian faith. By the way, if you actually read her post you'd know that she said she is not a Christian so much for your snarky "kkkristofascist" nonsense. People who hold views like yours are the problems in our society.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
Dearest mr. kester, please not that it was NOT a personal attack, of oblivious maria or anyone else. It was an OBSERVATION.
And...I did read it, disagreed with her opinion and responded. That is what forums are about
The kkkristofascists are the one who are THE problem. If you're not one of them then it doesn't refer to you, does it. It does refer to those "people" who want to ban, jail, beat or even kill gays. It refers to those "people" who want to turn this country into a theocracy. It refers to those "people" who want to force all children to learn their bible and go to their churches. If you are NOT one of "those" kkkristofascist then I am NOT referring to you.
Oh and BTW, you are appear to be headed in the direction of being one of the problems in our society. I think it's pretty clear who I refer to when I respond to comments or articles. Maybe just stop being so sensitive and understand that, while YOU may not be a kkkristofascist, many, MANY here are and prove it every/anytime they respond or comment.
May The Great Flying Spaghetti Monster fondle you with her tentacles RAMEN
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Robert James Ruhnke
As always, Kester sided with the oppressive whilst playing victim, Again. And your answer? To eradicate us. Always pushing soft toned and veiled threats. You are the very essence christofascism. If you you’ve noticed. There are more of us here who oppose your insanity, not applauding it.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
thank you, if we all join together we can fight kkkristofascism here and in the real world
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Rev. BH
Two genders, yes, Sexual preferences - many.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
I’m sure you didn’t purposely neglect intersex human beings…
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Russel A. Kester
As has been written ad nauseum, there are genital deformities which have wrongly been called hermaphroditism or intersex but a check of the DNA confirms the sex is the child. Some are misusing the term intersex as a substitute for an hermaphrodite. True hermaphrodites don't exist and never have. Thus a true condition of being between sexes (intersex) doesn't exist. The medical term merely means that a test needs to be done to learn the child's true gender.
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Gary Leu
Kester,
You keep telling people to get an education, while demonstrating a tonnage of ignorance, which I imagine is willful and biased. And just because you’re gay, doesn’t mean that you have any more understanding about transgender issues than some Maria’s. ^^^ :P The argument you put forth does not represent current medical, psychological, or psychiatric best practices.
What’s abhorrent, disgusting, and harmful to children is how you and Maria, cavalierly dismissed the life of her daughter. It’s exactly that attitude that has been clearly shown to be directly responsible for the increased suicide rate of trans adults and children.
No relevant professional uses the term hermaphroditism. It’s irrelevant to our best thinking. You also make the mistake of equating sex with gender. IF you’re seeking to understand, it might help to remember that sex is between your legs; gender is between your ears.
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Russel A. Kester
Gary, it isn't that I keep telling people to get an education, it's that I respond thusly to those who tell others to get an education. Whether one is gay or straight, we all have the same access to understanding this made up sociological ideology. As I've shown many times here there is no scientific proof of transgenderism. None. Zilch. Since medicine is based on medical science, no medical practitioner can make such a diagnosis based on science. Can't be done. As to psychiatry and psychology, they acknowledge it as a mental illness which is listed in the appropriate DSM manual with whatever is the current letter and numerical designation.
What's abhorrent, disgusting, and harmful to children is when adults, who should know better, tell them that they're transgendered. 80% of children left alone come out as gay or lesbian. They just didn't know how to express as children that they were attracted to the same sex without thinking that they must be the opposite because everywhere they looked people were attracted to the opposite sex. And if you think for one damnable minute that my being gay doesn't give me more insight to that truth than a straight person, then you are sorely mistaken. Virtually every gay man I've ever known has questioned if he was really boy as he grappled with same sex attraction in his childhood. It is so unbelievably arrogant to write as you did about gays not having anymore understanding than a straight person about what we go through as children and how transgender activists twist those moments of questioning to prove their sociological ideology that gender is fluid.
Both sex and gender are between one's legs. It takes years of an elite education to teach otherwise calling foolishness wisdom and wisdom foolishness.
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Robert James Ruhnke
No. There’s no science which backs the existence of transgender you’re willing to accept. Not that there’s no evidence available. That’s just another less than witty deflection on your part. From someone who is LGBTQ+ I’m here to say you’re full of BS. It ridiculously arrogant of YOU to speak on our community’s behalf with such ignorant and outdated beliefs as you do. Your insight is just straight propaganda. As a bi man, I’ve felt the sting of erasure attempts from gay men trying to gaslight my existence. Sex is a matter biology, gender is not. You’re the fool here trying to lecture others on things you willfully misunderstand. It’s why I don’t buy into the LGB concept as a stand alone crowd. It’s gatekeeping at its worst. Grow from hatred, Kester.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, even here you denigrate the LGB community saying you've felt the sting from gay men not accepting you. You've written in comments before that you prefer sex with women. And you've said that you are trans. You've also claimed that you are a trans lesbian. These were your comments made freely and under no duress. So stick with the T and Q community. That's your crowd. Leave the LGB community in peace.
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Robert James Ruhnke
I’ve never said I was Trans. Or a trans lesbian. That’s you lying through your teeth. Or misremembering someone else’s comment. Either way it reeks of you using that old boomer logic of “well if he’s defending them, he must be one.” I am bi, yes. I do prefer women over men as far as company goes. Yea. Cause most of the gay men I’ve met over the years are lying sacks of crap with legs. You being no exception to that. There are many in the LGBTQ+ community who extremely tired of the white mean hick girl gays who try to make everything about them. You denigrate yourselves with the internalized hatred you’ve felt all these years and are targeting the most vulnerable of our community. You’ve reaped what you’ve sewn, so don’t complain to me about your own foolish accomplishment.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
As an aside, I am presently smack dab in the middle of what many consider to be the mecca of the gay world (as it is a destination for many gay men world wide). We've owned a home here for many years and I can tell you from experience I would rather socialize (generally speaking) with lesbians and straights than the screaming queens you refer to.
But most of that is affectation, trying to fit into the stereotypes from both the straight and gay community, to be as in-your-face as possible.
Moreover the reason I prefer not to socialize with the gays is because their only topic of conversation seems to be is sex. That's fine when your a 14 year old boy but as an adult gay man, there are way more important and more stimulating things to talk about other than sex.
I accept drag and drag queens, I've attended them, here in mecca, in NYC, in Key West, even Barcelona. It is what it is and they are what they are. But I find that bit by bit they are attended more and more by the younger gay community who see drag maybe as a right of passage. Not all but many older gay men find it as trite as I do.
All the above said, I'll readily and happily defend all of it rather than sit back and allow the angry, self-hating individuals of the larger gay community, or the hateful, sanctimonious kkkristofascists, here and in the real world to attack and demean not just the community at large but to defend the individuals, regardless of how they want to participate within (or even outside of) the LGBTQ community.
Look at israel and hamas, ukraine and russia, the genocide taking place in parts of africa, those silly folk in north korea, the cheeto felon...there's way too much hatred in the world and yet some are compelled, literally compelled to bring their tasty versions of hatred here in a place where the ULC is supposed to be all accepting.
So RJR, it's up to those of us here to fight the fight and keep the haters, if not out of here, at least in their place
May Satan and The Great Flying Spaghetti Monsters bless us all
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Robert James Ruhnke
That’s fair JJ. As a bi guy, I have a bone to pick with certain individuals in our community who got it into their heads that sacrificing a part of it will save the rest of it, when in reality it hastens their turn to the charnel pit. I understand where Kester is coming from, I used to think like he does. Then I became honest with myself, and grew from that short sighted and mean girl way of thinking.
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Gary Leu
The same type of evidence supporting the existence of gay people also supports the existence of transgender people. The biased opinion of individuals is irrelevant to science and the conversation.
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Russel A. Kester
Gary, great. What is the type of evidence to which you refer? Would it be that straight women and gay men have a similar sized brains which are slightly smaller than straight men? Would it be that straight women and gay men process information in many of the same parts of their brains which is also different than straight men? Would it be the physical arousal which takes place when shown pictures or exposed to male 'scents' which is all measurable through physical observations or even in blood tests? Would it be the literature going back over 2,500 years which attests to the presence of homosexuality? Is it the research that shows that two-thirds of twins share the same sexual orientation? Please do share the science based evidence for transgenderism. I truly question if you will be able to do so. I think what you will find are sociological theories which are 100% biased opinions or you will find science related journalism that uses phrases like "it's complicated", "it could be", "evidence suggests", "it might be". But do prove me wrong. Find a legitimate, trustworthy scientific finding that shows transgenderism is on the ZZZ gene on the X or Y chromosome. You won't be able to do so. I have my theories as to why this is true, but am most interested to read the scientific results with which you respond to this comment.
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Patricia Ann Gross
The most recent update to the DSM5 kept gender dysphoria as a diagnosis in order to provide it as it is required for "institutional legitimization" i.e. so it can be treated medically. It also finds that gender variation is natural and non-pathologoical.
Here is the reference: Garrett, C. L. (2022). Finding natural variation: assembling underdetermined evidence of gender dysphoria, doing trans therapeutics. BioSocieties, 17(1), 28-52. https://doi.org/10.1057/s41292-020-00201-9
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Russel A. Kester
Patricia, Cal Lee Garrett is an Assistant Professor of Sociology at Wake Forest University and the author of the article you referenced. Cal is not a scientist or a psychiatrist. Cal is a sociology professor pushing an ideology which agrees with his own trans identity. Hardly an unbiased source. To the contrary he is a VERY biased source.
That said, your comment clearly stated that gender dysphoria is in the DSM as a psychological disorder. We agree on that. The trans community is in a quandary because they want GD removed from the manual as they don't consider themselves to have a mental illness, but they also want it in the manual so that they can have insurance companies pay for their medical bills with other people's money. Disingenuous to say the least. I also note a slight redefining in the idea of gender variation from that of variance within a gender to that of it being a legitimate term to use for transgenderism. I oppose that change. Gender variation within a gender is not compatible with the idea of transgender which by its literal meaning is to cross genders from one to the other.
When legitimate, hard science can prove transgenderism, then I will change my mind but not until then. Too many people are accepting this sociological theory, as advocated by the author you referenced, without adequate scientific proof. We should not overturn 6,000 years of culture for bad, unproven sociological theories.
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Robert James Ruhnke
You’re ignoring 6000 years of history for a 500 year old opinion, Kester. As per usual you lie through your teeth about the science behind the existence of trans people. You waste so much breath on this I don’t think you’re even here to discuss spiritual matters.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, I see a lot of talk but no science in your opinion. Show us the science.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Every accusation, a confession from you. I’ve shown the science, you’re too busy using outdated data sources to care or understand the science presented, im not falling for that bogus trap again.
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Patricia Ann Gross
Russel, I will at some point work up a full literature review on the topic since you obviously want proof, just not today because I know you will try to shoot down anything I provide since your mind is already made up. I do know that there has been a lot of scientific research on the topic of trangender/transexualism which sparked the change of gender dysphoria to a non-pathological status when the DSM5 was published, but left it in as a disorder because there were medical options to address the disorder, some including medication (hormone treatments) and surgery (gender reassignment.) Don't forget it that homosexuality was considered a mental illness in the early days of the DSM4 (I'm not sure when it was deleted), so you, as a gay man, would have been considered mentally ill under the standards that were set forth then. Thankfully, as more is learned about a particular topic, things change, which is why doctors rarely treat patients with leaches or bloodletting anymore.
As for Dr. Cal Garrett PhD (from U of Illinois at Chicago, not Wake Forest), he is a scientist (Sociology is the scientific study of social order/disorder), and your point about them being transgender making them biased is noted but I would argue that it also makes them an expert, because they have a lived experience. Most people who embark on research has some connection to the topic, and that does not necessarily make them biased. Who better to do research on a cure for AIDS than someone who had/has a loved one who died or is living with the disease?
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Russel A. Kester
Patricia, that was a truly good and thoughtful response. And you actually read and heard what I said. Thank you. We can both look forward to science providing additional information, but I don't see actual science coming from sociology. Ever since Émile Durkheim this field of study left the scientific basis he worked so hard to establish as those thereafter sought to make sociology relevant by demanding that it do things to change the world. After that we got people like Foucault and Butler who took it to bizarre places.
Yes, previous versions of the DSM manual did list being homosexual as a mental illness, but it did so not based on science but on biased and wrong morals for which we can thank Queen Victoria. Before her decision to clean up England with her morality gay sex was known and tolerated. It was probably so easily accepted because the elite since the 1500s sent their son to boarding schools where boys were boys.
Thanks!!!
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Lisbeth Kieran Bushey
So you're a TERF/Transphobe, got it. Jesus would be very disappointed in you because he never said anything about LGBT people or Trans people - who have always existed. People in my culture accepted people who didn't identify with the body they were born in (including those who identified as no gender or multiple genders) for centuries before Europeans arrived in what is now Quebec. With them came Christianity and a centuries-long genocide that all but wiped out our culture and language. My great-grandparents came here from Quebec because the US ended the practice of ripping children from their homes by force and locking them in "schools" that stripped them of their culture, religion, language, and often even their names before Canada did.
In modern times, these people often identify as Two-Spirited; which is a newer term that is shared between multiple different Indigenous cultures in the US and Canada. Science has found that many cultures around the world have had gender diverse acceptance for millennia and that homosexuality and gender diversity exists across species.
You're just flat out wrong RAK and it's sad you don't accept the part of the LGBTQ+ community that has fought the hardest to give all of us rights, often at great personal expense.
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Russel A. Kester
Lisbeth, it seems your statement about people with two spirits in North America Indian cultures is not necessarily shared by Indians themselves, "Although two-spirit implies to some a spiritual nature, that one holds the spirit of two, both male and female, traditional Native Americans/First Nations peoples view this as a Western concept." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-spirit#
Trans activists are forever trying to rewrite everyone's history to prove terrible theories that should've been properly criticized and rejected as soon as they were presented.
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Patricia Ann Gross
Just like the transphobes who probably updated the "two-spirit" entry in Wikipedia. If I had used Wikipedia as a source during my doctoral studies, I would have had to back it up with several peer-reviewed articles in scientific journals that said the same thing. Someone who often demands scientific proof of things he doesn't believe in should know that Wikipedia is not a reliable source, as anyone can update it. My dear Russel, bias can run both ways.
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Russel A. Kester
Patricia, it's true that one should not quote Wikipedia as a source for serious journalism or in dissertations as has been said by Daniel Gray, I believe, who also pointed out to us that the site itself so just that. However, it is a good place to begin looking into many subjects as it does have a lot of information in a condensed form. That's why I worded my response as I did writing 'it seems ....' If I were to have concerns about Wikipedia it is that it is very progressive in its editing. The woman who ran it and it's 'editors' left to become the head of NPR also a progressive organization. She made statements that she was very happy with the progressive direction she took Wikipedia during her tenure. So, I'm not labelling the authors or editors as transphobic.
However, if one makes a positive claim then there is a higher demand for proof which is why I request a higher level of certainty when someone claims something to be true which goes against our current understanding and culture. That is why I push back when some claim it's genetic. We do not have that level of proof. That claim is currently false. If they claim it's psychological, fine. No issues with that statement as it is in the DSM5 as such. I hope that helps clarify when or why I will change my mind only when we have an appropriate foundation to do so.
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Patricia Ann Gross
Did you ever consider that the statement about the "two-spirit concept being a western concept" was because the westerners that took over this country labeled it as a negative concept under a different name? "Western" could have applied more to attitude than the concept itself. We'll never know without contacting the author.
It truly bothers me that you consider anything that is or can be labeled "progressive" or "woke" is somehow evil. Some of the most impactful changes in society have come from progressive ideas (thus the name progressive from the root progress). If the world were to stay the same from this day forth would be very boring.
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Russel A. Kester
Patricia, the labels 'progressive' and 'woke' are now used to identify ideologies which are beyond reasonableness and into crazy activist territory and thus, as used, the origins of the word only indicate how activists captured perfectly good, innocuous sounding ideas inherent in those words to further destructive ideologies. It's deceitful propaganda at its finest. Your statement that some of the most impactful changes in society have come from progressive ideas is true. But that doesn't mean those changes improved society or made it better. The current Marxist based progressive ideas do not make society better. They sicken and destroy society.
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Patricia Ann Gross
What you are describing, are the fringes rather than the ones that do not bow to the conservative rhetoric. One can be progressive and woke without being on the extreme fringes. I believe in enough on both sides to defy the definitions of either. One can believe in fiscal responsibility and secure borders (for example) and also be pro-choice and believe in climate change. Not all issues are directly related, and people can legitimately believe in issues on both sides. It's called being bi-partisan.
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Russel A. Kester
Patricia, nice response. It might be the fringes to which the terms 'woke' and 'progressive,' as I use them apply, but they are a vociferous and effective group. The reason a few really bad warlords can rule millions is because the masses are not likely to stand up to them. The masses are like sheep. The ideologies of this group are bad and if one accepts those ideologies that makes the person as woke as those who propagated them at least with respect to those ideologies. I know we're getting short on space here due to the constraints of the blog system, but I enjoy our conversation very much. It is thoughtful communication which allows us to understand ourselves and others better.
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Patricia Ann Gross
Russel, Can't the same be applied to the ultra-conservative fringes?
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Russel A. Kester
Yes. It most certainly can. Most of us exist in the vast middle ground between the two (think two sigmas on a bell shaped curve). We might quibble over where the lines for either faction of the crazies begins, but we generally acknowledge it exists.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Russel, you realize that at one time homosexuality was also considered a mental illness, right? There is no definitive proof of what causes homosexuality, but eventually they stopped referring to us as mentally ill. Yes, gender dysphoria is classified as a mental condition today, but that too can change. Yes, sex is determined by what chromosomes a person has, but that does not mean a person cannot transition to another gender. Hormone and testosterone levels can be changed. Sexual organs can also be surgically altered to align with the opposite sex. Is it exactly the same? No, it is not, but it helps them feel more like themselves. What is wrong with that? They are not out there trying to convert others. You cannot convince or make someone else transgender any more than you can make a straight person homosexual.
The fact is that they do exist, and they live happier lives after their transition, and less than one percent regret their surgical transition. This is not some fad or crazy ideology. Like homosexuals, they don’t know why they feel the way they do, they just know they are different. Why are you so against these people? How does their transgenderism affect anyone but themselves. It doesn’t.
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Russel A. Kester
James, as I've written, I oppose trans activism and it's associated industry. As for less than 1% regretting having done so, that data is still premature. It takes up to five years or more for youths to become adults and fully realize its impact on their lives for the rest of their lives. As for being gay having once been considered a mental illness, the basis was not scientific for doing so, it was a wrong moral code. And when science was consulted and used properly as well as good psychology, it was seen to be a natural variation in nature and not limited to humans.
There was an interview on Heretic with a young man who detransitioned. The video was demonetized by YouTube. In virtually all media the voices of detransitioners is being effectively silenced. Not completely, but greatly so. One young person who was transitioning saw the video and sent a comment that he'd decided against his scheduled bottom surgery. He also wrote that his doctor became very forceful in pressuring him to go through with the surgery. And that highlights the problem, where there's big money, there's corruption and unethical behavior.
If an adult, and for this type of surgery that should mean over 24 years old as males' brains are not fully developed until then, elects surgery after several years of counseling with a qualified therapist, fine. Otherwise, no! Kids are being talked into this by trans activists, especially those on TikTok. Most kids who question their gender are actually gay or lesbian. Let them have the time to come to terms with their sexuality..
There are adults who chose to undergo surgery as the right choice for them. No problem. And one would be mistaken to think I've never known or worked with trans persons. I do understand what they've told me. But they were adults who made adult decisions. Just leave the children alone.
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Maria
But some people believe there are more than 2 genders.
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Maria
Yes and they are wrong. People who don’t consider themselves male or female have either a medical condition or psychiatric one. My point in this whole conversation is about how small children are being e posed to their vulgarity and illness. I have no problem with whatever you think you are. Just stay away from children as they are vulnerable, impressionable, and innocent!
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Robert James Ruhnke
The only one who needs to stay away from children is your hateful self. No they aren’t wrong, but basing your limited idea of scientific fact on biblical principles is dead wrong.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, you continue to accuse others of being filled with hate, but in utter and complete honesty, you are one of the few here who actually express hatred in your comments. You demonstrate a true fundamentalist mentality. One doesn't need to be a Christian to be a fundamentalist. One can be a pagan or trans and queer activist fundamentalist. It is that intolerant sense of superiority in one's own beliefs which allows them to disparage others.
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Robert James Ruhnke
The irony is you are projecting once more. You may be well mannered in your hatred, but it’s there, Kester. Especially the superiority part. You constantly show off just how arrogant and how proud you are of your willful ignorance. I’ve expressed anger, annoyance, and utter contempt for your opinions, but never hatred.
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Maria
Yes and they are wrong. People who don’t consider themselves male or female have either a medical condition or psychiatric one. My point in this whole conversation is about how small children are being e posed to their vulgarity and illness. I have no problem with whatever you think you are. Just stay away from children as they are vulnerable, impressionable, and innocent!
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Gary Leu
Whether or not any part or all of being transgender is a medical or psychiatric matter is for those professional communities to decide. Then they use data to come up with best practice methods and guidelines. Personal biases have no place in those decisions and ongoing refinements. For everyone’s benefit, we do not consult the Marias of the world.
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Russel A. Kester
Gary, you write well and seem like a genuinely good person. I'm glad you seem to be science based, we need more such thinking here and in society as a whole. I want to stress the part of Maria's comment wherein she advocates that the trans and queer communities stop intruding into the lives of children. Activists have made this a social issue by doing so. Activists are pushing agendas. Gays and lesbians had an agenda which was 'we just want to live our lives' but these activists do not. As THEY shouted in a New York parade 'we're coming after your children'.
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Robert James Ruhnke
The trans Community isn’t intruding on children, they’re doing nothing more than trying to help trans and other LGBTQ+ youths from growing up feeling alone and validating their existence with acceptance and love. Things you’re sorely missing in your arguments. The only one pushing an agenda trying ti hurt people is anti queer and anti trans fanatics. Maria and yourself are meddling Karens speaking on topics they have no business speaking on. Especially as you push lies and slander on our most vulnerable community members. You’re projecting every vile thing that’s ever been said about our community, as a pathetic effort to save yourself from your fellow fanatics. It will not save you in the end from their madness.
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Russel A. Kester
Repeatedly calling the trans community vulnerable when it is the aggressors doesn't work anymore. It is activist who say that so that they can do whatever they think will let them interfere in children's lives because their lot is extremely intent on brainwashing the youngest in society. The claim of trying to protect anyone rings hollow. Activists want to push sociological theories that are bad for society. Shame. If you are now claiming that you are not trans, then let them speak for themselves.
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Robert James Ruhnke
I speak for those not in the room until they arrive. I also speak as a bi man who embraces all of our community. Not just the cookie cutter farce the LGB are trying to project in pathetic attempts to deflect from those who would gladly see them harmed. How pitiful it is of you to use the same projection Christian fundamentalists have been using on gay men since we’ve all been trying to exist with our dignity and rights in tact all this time. That you were coming for their children. How sad and pitiful. The funny thing is, I know a few trans gals who would agree with you on a lot of what you say. Irony is such strange friendly thing. You’re all really weird for cheering and ushering in your own potential extinction. No amount of grifting, misrepresentation, projection, misplaced loyalty or trust, trans/queer bashing is going to save you from Christian fundamentalists who despise ALL lgbtq+, especially Christian ones. I’m not trying to threaten or scare you. That’s just the reality of fundamentalist Christians, they either want you dead or sneaking out a living in the cracks of society for the last 2000 years now. Is that life worth living to you? Or do you think you have it so made you can just weather out that storm?
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Russel A. Kester
James, how refreshing to see your comment reflect such honesty. Here's how I see the irony of why trans people and I might agree. It's because we both want to simply live our lives in peace. You have this belief that I hate or despise trans people. WRONG. I despise activists who are actually threatening both the LGB and the trans communities with their antics and constant pushes to 'educate' straight people's children. That leads to terrible troubles. These activists themselves have been mislead by the field of sociology which has for decades insisted on this type of behavior in order to change the world and make it better. But there's the rub. Better according to whom? Well, according to sociologists' values and beliefs says the sociology professors who send their students out to be radical activists. And it's wrongheaded. If sociology is to be a true science, then it should be a science by studying society and not work to be an agent for change in society. And I am far from a fundamentalist Christian. A Christian, yes. A fundamentalist or evangelical, no. And certainly not a Pentecostal. But both the LGB and trans communities must reign in these activists or society will eventually do it and that will negatively impacts us too..
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Robert James Ruhnke
You’re a liar, Kester. So I don’t believe anything you say. You hate trans people, it’s that simple. Trying to hide it behind circumstantial labeling such as activist is a disingenuous ploy. As you’ve labeled anyone defending them a trans activist or trans. It’s why we don’t agree or will never agree. I’ve been honest and truthful this entire time. You’re the one who has been spinning lies and misinformation.
“These activists themselves have been mislead by the field of sociology which has for decades insisted on this type of behavior in order to change the world and make it better. But there's the rub. Better according to whom? Well, according to sociologists' values and beliefs says the sociology professors who send their students out to be radical activists. And it's wrongheaded. If sociology is to be a true science, then it should be a science by studying society and not work to be an agent for change in society.” This rant is a Christian fundamentalist talking point, Jester. It’s a poor accusation that’s a confession on their part. The only ones churning out fundie cultists/activists the last 50 years are the Religious fundamentalists who got in bed with right wing politics.
I took three sociology classes in college and never once did they push what you’re accusing of. They’re not indoctrinating anyone. They showed us information on the topic and we studied it. Nothing more. There were arguments which were quickly squashed by the teacher. I also took biology which also backed the existence of sex being a spectrum and not a binary in humans. We have too many biological anomalies going on for that to be true. My major was social science and my minor was history. I studied biology and medical terminology as electives. My goal of education was and still is Health, Safety, and Spiritual Well being. I’ve still continued on that path. It’s why I do passionately oppose every lying word you push.
“And I am far from a fundamentalist Christian. A Christian, yes. A fundamentalist or evangelical, no. And certainly not a Pentecostal. But both the LGB and trans communities must reign in these activists or society will eventually do it and that will negatively impacts us too.” No. Solely the LGB and the religious reich need to reign in their cultists and “soldiers.”
I said you were a fundie wannabe, they won’t take you, so you try to be a zero carb low fat option, which has all the same bigotries, but is watered down for a more general audience. So far it’s been LGB lesbians calling for the death of trans people. I’ve heard the whispers that trans people are threatening others. Whilst it’s plausible, I am more likely to suspect agent provocateurs pulling stunts over the internet. The fact that y’all would sooner believe it’s trans people, and not someone making it looks like them, tells me 1) you’re hoping it’s them so you can feel justified in your feelings 2) you’re hoping it’s them so someone else can deal with them. 3) you’re hoping it’s them because their existence bothers you for some reason. If these weren’t true, you’d not be writing the way you are about them. So far, this is all you ever show to do. Argue against the existence of trans people. It’s annoying and I pray you stop and realize you’re not belong anyone.
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Russel A. Kester
Just another long rant against me and nothing of substance about the topic.
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Maria
Yes and they are wrong. People who don’t consider themselves male or female have either a medical condition or psychiatric one. My point in this whole conversation is about how small children are being e posed to their vulgarity and illness. I have no problem with whatever you think you are. Just stay away from children as they are vulnerable, impressionable, and innocent!
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Rev. Marlise
Maria, I completely agree with your comment. I do not have a problem with these people either but I do have a problem having these ideas pushed on everyone else especially children. Parents should be able to decide when and if they want their kids exposed to Drag. Just like anything else.
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Rev Big Al
Well said and I totally agree
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Charles E Rogers
I don't follow any religion, I just seek the truth. Keep your eyes and ears open! Sign of times we are N
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Mark Hannon
Remember how da Vinci got all the Apostles and Jesus to stand and pose at the longest table in Jerusalem? Of course not. The Olympics started in Greece and ALL the men were naked. This is actual history.
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Pamela Ann DelaBar
And women were not allowed to be spectators, except for high priestesses. Europe was “Christian” way before Christians settled in North America (least we forget the Vikings centuries before them). The ignorance of cultures and history, plus the hypocrisy coming from the U.S. is an embarrassment.
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James Riggle-Johnson
It’s the Olympics. Can’t you just explain to your children the origins of the Olympics, and that back then they believed and prayed to many Gods? This wasn’t about LGBTQ anything. It wasn’t about the Last Super. It’s The Feast of the Gods by Jan van Bijlert.
I am truly tired of Christians false claims that their religion is under attack. It’s a pollical ploy and nothing else. Nobody is saying they can’t practice Christianity. It’s called deflection. Accuse others of what you are doing. They have begun fighting against anything that is not Christian or that doesn’t see the world how they think it should be. If we don’t agree we are demonic.
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ServantOfJudgement
James please look into Bijlert's painting. It's a perversion of davinci last supper. Like it or not, the Olympics display is in fact a live transvestite display of the corrupted version of a painting that depicts the event of the Christ's last supper prior crucifixion.
That said let them eat their cake....
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Robert James Ruhnke
The last supper itself doesn’t depict an accurate representation of Christ or the apostles. DaVinci couldn’t have known what had been suppressed for centuries.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, that is beside the point. Da Vinci's last supper is a pictorial representation of a sacrament in the church and was done with respect. That display at the opening ceremony intentionally mocked that sacrament, which makes all the difference.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Da Vinci also used his gay lover’s face as the model for Jesus Christ. but you aren’t saying anything about that, not that you even knew that. An honestly I’d say that’s the only you specifically are getting so upset at this. Even though it’s a depiction of Greek Gods celebrating Dionysus. Again. You are wrong. Or you’re a liar. 🤥
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, no one alive today knows Da Vinci's sexuality. Whether he used a woman or a young man to pose for Mary doesn't matter. He painted the picture with the grace and dignity it deserved.
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Robert James Ruhnke
It is a hotly debated topic, true.
There was no Mary in the ceremony…. lol you would think that if it was based on the last supper, they’d of had a drag king (woman dressed a man) as Mary Magdalene. They didn’t. They had a male blue bachus/dionysus as a central figure. Again you’re a liar or your wrong.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, now the fact that Mary is present is interesting. I don't think she was there. I've heard that Da Vinci liked to put 'things' into his paintings to make statements. I think there's a message there, but I don't know what it is. I wonder if he belonged to a secret society and if these paintings had hidden messages they could understand but not the masses, especially the Church. Well, it's entertaining to think so.
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Robert James Ruhnke
There was no Mary, they were all wearing togas, and the Blue Dionysus blows a hole through your performative outrage Kester. Barbara Butch was wearing Blue the way a high priestess of Dionysus would to honor her god and his blessing. The center figure also has a star for a halo, a Greek sign. Just admit you were wrong and move on.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, honestly, the blue man has a cover over him shaped like the cover at restaurants. He was being served as the meal like the Christ said this is my body and this is my blood. That along with the arrangement of the drag queens around the table. The symbolism is pretty clear.
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Robert James Ruhnke
He was the guest of honor at his own party, he was painted blue, the artist did an interview after where he still had blue paint in his belly button. The picture is right at the top of the blog. You’re muddying the symbolism because you’re a small minded bigot looking to cash in on an imaginary problem of your own conjuring for the sake of performative outrage. Drag has nothing to do with Christianity either. LOL. It was Dionysus and his retinue of queer priests and priestess’s, celebrating an ancient PRE CHRISTIAN tradition. You’re a liar or your wrong, Kester.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, part of the discussion was about Da Vinci's painting of the last supper. I freely admit that you wrote Da Vinci used his lover to portray Jesus which I misread as portraying Mary as that has been a topic of debate as to why she's in the picture. I was responding to that. It was my bad.
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Russel A. Kester
Come on, James, the arrangement of the drag queens, the black keyboard (or whatever it was) in the center like the Eucharist, and the drag queen in the center with arms spread out like Jesus Christ in the last supper and no other characters in front of the table just like the last supper and unlike the painting you referenced. Even the drag queen in the center posted that it was a depiction of the last supper. Some PR people did some quick damage control by saying it referred to the Feast of the Gods, but a comparison of all of the paintings shows that both the Olympic ceremony and the painting to which you refer are based on the last supper. It's okay to stand up and call a spade a spade.
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James Riggle-Johnson
You can say it until you are blue in the face, but it doesn't make it fact. You believe what you do, and I’ll believe what I do. I’m willing to give people the benefit of doubt. Also, if it was some strange representation of the last supper I wouldn’t care. Christians have been mocking people like us for centuries.
I’ve noticed how you keep referring to the community as LGB, making your thoughts on the T well understood. Let me ask you something… do you know why you are gay? Can you point to any once physical thing that definitively makes you homosexual? Science isn’t really clear on exactly what is the root cause, but at one time we were considered a mental illness. You might want to keep that in mind when you harshly criticize the Trans community.
And before you ask, I agree that the alphabet soup Acronym for our community has gotten out of hand, but I keep trying to keep an open mind. The same arguments I hear today regarding our depravity and sinfulness I’ve been hearing for 50 plus years. I will keep fighting for our rights to be accepted as human beings. I will keep fighting for our rights to be treated to same as our straight (cis) counterparts.
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Russel A. Kester
James, that was an honest and revealing (in the best sense of the word) comment from you. Thank you. Sincerely. It's great to have an honest conversation without posturing.
I cannot speak for all gay people or all who follow the Christian faith. For myself, I don't hate or despise trans and queer people. I do oppose the activism of trans and queer activists. There's a great difference! I find most gay and Christian people I speak to feel similarly.
Yes, I refer to the LGB community as it has completely different identity issues than trans and queer communities. They should never have been combined in my opinion. But many gay men I speak to share my thoughts that as long as they were just living their lives as we sought to live ours, no harm done. But when the activists took over our organizations and antagonized the straight community out of spite, those were actions we could not abide. It was the T's and Q's who cause everything to become an issue with the straight community and many in the gay and lesbian community.
As for proof of gay men actually being gay, it's the most obvious thing and easily seen; there are physical arousals, mental and emotional arousals, and many other physiology changes which can all be measured. That's because being gay is biological. While you write that science hasn't identified the 'root' cause, it has determined that it isn't just a psychological condition as we'd once been told. And it isn't a moral lapse as some preach. It's presence in society historical and at present are well attested. The same cannot be said for trans and queer persons. Everyone should and most actually do support and even fight for trans and queer people's right to live their lives and to be treated with the respect and dignity owed to all humans. But those communities must respect the rights and beliefs of others to live their authentic lives without concerted efforts by activists to shame them, seek to cancel them, or cause them to suffer.
So, if trans and queer persons would just quietly live their lives and stay out of children's spaces, they would live peaceably within the larger society. Unfortunately, they continue to seek to change that larger society which is causing everyone great pain. And I fear it will not end well for them
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Robert James Ruhnke
You keep blaming the victim for the oppressor’s behavior, and use nonsense conjecture for proof of gay men’s existence. God Gods you’re a sad twisted man. Everything you’ve said about gay men is equally true for queer and trans people, you are a gatekeeping hypocrite who has too much audacity for one person. You lie once again to hurt people. Shame on you. Our LGBTQ+ community is nothing without the TQ+, it’s as simple as that. You’re anti TQ activist whose every accusation is a confession. You’re the one seeking to pervert people into being hateful bigots in the name of his religion. You don’t go after ideology, you attack people, you may do so politely, but your venom stains your words, hollowing them, and undoing the sentiment you fail to purvey.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, you've already said that you're a trans activist who trolls this site, and I view your comments to me in that light. Once again, your rhetoric was more verbal attacking of anyone who tries to engage in actual conversation which you fear as that might shown the flaws in your sociological mindset. You come across as a true fundamental.
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Robert James Ruhnke
I’ve said I support and embrace them, that doesn’t make me a trans activist. I never said I was one. Again, you’re a liar. You’re a fundie wannabe who hopes to change this minds of his fundie buddies about being gay by tossing people he views as less desirable under the bus. You have more in common with Judas than you do Jesus, Liar 🤥. You misgender a lesbian dj because she’s not your kind of pretty. When you’re not being an ironic zealot confessing his sins through his accusations, you’re being an arrogant know nothing using out of context data’s, bogus citations of you use them, and outright lies to back his claims. At this point I think you’re just responding to steal big words to sound fancy as you lie through your teeth as you use them out of context.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, another long rant of personal attacks on me and no actual topical discussions that I could find..
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Robert James Ruhnke
Kester, you made this personal with your lies. You’re reaping what you’ve sewn and you don’t like that your wretched vibe is being bounced back in your general direction.
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Man of God
I am responding to both of you. First, The Lord said to Moses,.... Lev 20:13 "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestble. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
No where in the Bible (the Living Word of God) are women lying with woman is consider as a sin. Lesbians are not homosexuals .. Why? God is angry with man because he is disrespecting the seed of life. A woman can't create life, she nourish life. She has no tool to create a life. That is a gift from God to man, since man is created in the image of God. I had read the Bible many times before God opened my eyes to this scripture, I felt fear to friends that are homosexuals. When I realized what God told Moses to do. I am not homosexual, as a child my mom said they are good people, funny and kind. Only men who have those feelings do that. Jesus teaches us to love one another. In fact Jesus made that a commanment, The 11th. Study Matt 19:7-12, Jesus addresses the issue and forgives this sin. (a sin is anything against the word of God)
All these other ideas about being human are just ideas men and women make up. The Good News is Jesus. As long as adults are not harming anyone, they are free to be. Only Jesus has the right to judge. He earned that right before the whole world. The Father honors his Son and only his Son will sit on the Judgement Throne. Humans kill because of deep ignorance. Our job as believers is to follow Jesus. It is not easy.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Man of God. No. Your book is not a living word. It’s just the bones of your personal belief system. No more. As a freedom abiding pagan, I will never respect your belief, but will respect your right to believe what gods you will. So long as you keep your bloody thoughts in check. When you open your eyes to the reality of the gods, all this fear mongering and evil you carry will melt away. I pray one day the miracle of mental rebirth hits you like lightning. Have a blessed day.
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Rev “D”
Yet those alleged words of god were put on paper how many thousands of years later, along with various changes in tellings and translations? Such a powerful god creates all, knows all, all is his will, yet needed mere mortals to write on his behalf, after multiple rewrites. Hmmm…
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James Riggle-Johnson
This issue was brought to light by a political party. The best way to gain control is to create an enemy everyone will fear, and to make them REALLY fear you tell them they’re after your children. That same political party is also coming after us not because of trans activists but because they have always despised us. They have always called us pedophiles, abominations, and perverts.
Also, there is no definitive proof of what causes homosexuality, but eventually they stopped referring to us as mentally ill. Yes, gender dysphoria is classified as a mental condition today, but that too can change tommorrow. Yes, sex is determined by what chromosomes a person has, but that does not mean a person cannot transition to another gender. Hormone and testosterone levels can be changed. Sexual organs can also be surgically altered to align with the opposite sex. Is it exactly the same? No, it is not, but it helps them feel more like themselves. What is wrong with that? They are not out there trying to convert others. You cannot convince or make someone else transgender any more than you can make a straight person homosexual.
The fact is that they do exist, and they live happier lives after their transition, and less than one percent regret their surgical transition. This is not some fad or crazy ideology. Like homosexuals, they don’t know why they feel the way they do, they just know they are different. Why are you so against these people? How does their transgenderism affect anyone but themselves. It doesn’t.
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Russel A. Kester
James, I sincerely believe you err when you say that trans and queer activists are not trying to convert others. They are. They confuse kids, especially gay and lesbian kids, to think they are transgender just for questioning their gender. They pounce on these poor kids and 'advise' them what to tell their parents and doctors. It's immoral. And it was the trans and queers in parades who themselves shouted 'we're coming after your children'. I saw the videos myself. I didn't need anyone from some right-wing organization to explain it to me. Again, if these activists would leave children alone, stay out of children's spaces, and just live quiet lives then trans persons would be able to live quiet lives. Society isn't demanding that they do anything, it's demanding that they stop doing these things. The activists and their ilk ARE the aggressors and predators in this case.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Your example of “we’re coming for your children” was a jest based on THEM always saying we are coming for their children. Nothing more, nothing less. I’ve been fighting this fight for over 40 years. I want straight parents to stop harassing their children and stop trying to beat the gay out of them.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Words that will resonate with those who read it.
People do not need to defend God. People do often feel the need to defend the religious practices they have centered - and the ways they have chosen to behave because of what they believe to be true about God. But that is not the same thing as defending God. The accusation that one is mocking God begs questions about what precisely the accuser is defending.
Treating an Italian painting of white Jesus as sacrosanct is most certainly honoring something that is not God. The accusation that one is mocking God begs questions about what exactly the accuser is honoring.
A depiction of Jesus welcoming table guests that others shun is Biblical. The accusation that one is mocking God begs questions about which Gospels the accuser is reading.
"Mocking God" is a mean-spirited critique. The accusation that one is mocking God begs questions about the intention of the accuser.
But more than any of this: the fact that American Christians so wildly missed the celebration of the Greek gods is stunningly and embarrassingly a result of the anti-intellectual tragedy into which the far right has invited evangelical Christians.
Listen. There is no shame in not already knowing something. It is ok to not readily recognize the Feast of DIONYSOS (Dionysus). I have to look up how to spell it every time I write it.
But the Greek gods are at the heart of the history of the Olympics.
And the opening Ceremony in Paris was about things deeply rooted in French culture and in Olympic history.
Artwork from the Louvre was highlighted.
And though there are depictions of the last supper in the Louvre, the particular painting in question is not at the Louvre because it is in a church in Italy. It has nothing to do with France-or the Olympics and it would have been wildly off topic.
It makes much more sense for the bawdy scene in question to be a depiction of the Feast of DIONYSOS (Dionysus).
I hope you will stop spending energy being angry about the opening ceremony mocking God.
And.
There are things that dishonor God.
Policies that make it harder for children to eat dishonor God.
Policies that strip dignity and self-determination from those whose realities you do not understand dishonor God.
The dismantling of public education dishonors God.
Racial injustice dishonors God.
Centering heteronormative relationships dishonors God.
Championing women who are able to birth live children as virtuous or honorable dishonors God.
Using tricky words to herald a society where freedoms and safety-nets are taken away in the name of some false nobility of suffering dishonors God.
Lying dishonors God.
Cheating on your partner dishonors God.
Destroying ecosystems dishonors God.
Filling the oceans with plastic dishonors God.
Hoarding wealth dishonors God.
Choose, then, whom you will serve.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
Being judgemental, being pontifical, being sanctimonious, being holier-than-thou, being pedantic, being ....well it all dishonors goD, or it would, it goD were a real thing. But as all thinking people, goD is just a figment of the imagination of weak-minded people who fear education, open-mindedness and of course, science HAIL SATAN (seriously, check out the satanic temple to see the works they do and their beliefs, it will surprise you and the only true and worthwhile religion out there) HAIL SATAN
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Robert James Ruhnke
I’ll pass, thanks though. I’ll stick to being just a simple Pagan. A country dweller, with country dwelling gods and spirits about me. I’ve no doubt about science, agree with you that the major three abrahamic religions have a reckless teen for a god and the concept needs to shelved. Centralized religion is indeed a cancer. But I also say let men worship what gods they will.
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Rev “D”
Thank you for explanation, history, and clarification. Well said.
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Robert James Ruhnke
I found this on my feed in Facebook. A Baptist’s words, it’s rare I ever agree with them.
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Reverend Paula Copp
The opening ceremony was a nod to Dionysus (Bacchus). It was a depiction of a feast of Dionysus, not the last supper! Those who don’t know the difference need to go back and look at the actual painting it referenced. Reverend Paula Copp
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Eustress
I recently pubished a book, "The Story Has a Secret" that seems relevant to posted comments. Self-awareness is the clue here. Use some self-dislosure to discover your " hidden" and " blind" spots. The artistic presentation reminds us all, how we create our interpretations of experience that we call reality. The French are known for their artistic presentations. Much like a projection technique, the picture allow us to attribute to the picture whatever is going on with us.
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Russel A. Kester
Eustress, if I see someone stab another human being in front of my face, I am not projecting 'hidden' or 'blind' spots in my personality. I am witnessing a crime. Which is what I call that traverse of a performance that night.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Too bad your stabbing analogy and the label of crime are false equivalencies for what’s going on. Your performative outrage needs work. lol.
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Nicholas J Page
I don't watch the Olympics too boring for me.I haven't watched it in years
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David Webber
Bwahahahaha. Offensive to Christianity, not likely. It wasn't the last supper. And it's Christianity that mocks and steals ideas from other religions. As it was stated, it was from a depiction of a Greek Deity supper. Even if it wasn't, not everything is mocking Christianity.
Especially that one, tweet/message of a acrobat holding himself up via rings, and the poster was tired of people mocking Christianity. Then explain to us how in the world, are Acrobats/gymnastics are supposed to hold themselves up.
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Maria
What ever painting it was doesn’t matter, it was still disgusting and in poor taste. But that’s the French for you.
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Rev. BH
And what perfect nationality are you? (And please stop posting the same drivel three times. Once is even too much.)
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James Riggle-Johnson
Maria, you are the one that’s been saying it was the last supper. You may not have liked it but that is simply your opinion as is that it mocked Christianity. They’ve gone out of their way to say it did not but nobody wants to hear it. Christians are not being persecuted. They are one of the largest groups of persecutors on the planet. Christians attack everything that does not subscribe to their beliefs.
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Russel A. Kester
No James, the drag queen sitting at the center table said it was a depiction of the last supper.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Please point out where that was said?
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Russel A. Kester
James, again you won't do a simple Google? Here is a quote from the Advocate, "Many around the world believed the scene intended to evoke the famous da Vinci painting, with Butch in the role of Jesus Christ, something Butch seemed to confirm in a since-deleted Instagram post reading “Oh yes! Oh yes! The gay new testament!” https://www.advocate.com/politics/republicans-drag-last-supper-olympics#toggle-gdpr
Note that the Advocate says that Butch has since deleted the post, but thanks to the Internet such deleted material isn't lost forever.
This isn't the first time I've provided a link to something I've said and you've challenged. In the future you can Google the information yourself if you truly want to know.
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Robert James Ruhnke
No Kester, she didn’t. Barbara Butch wasn’t in drag. She is a lesbian activist. She was DJing the event. Stop lying.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0xj358y7n5o.amp
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Russel A. Kester
James, thanks for that correction. I wondered as she looked very real to me as a woman, but I kept hearing they were all drag queens and not trans (see posts to me here) so assumed Barbara was her stage name. It still makes her performance vile.
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Robert James Ruhnke
No it doesn’t. That’s just your satanic panic getting the better of your mouth, jester.
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Lady Mutt Cat
Any educated person recognized a Bacchanalia. Christians, get over yourselves. Not everything is about you.
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Rev.J.Buchanan
Well,I am educated, with college, university, and on-line courses, etc., however, I am not an art student. Nor have I explored Greek mythology to a degree that I know about every single painting or story ever made or written on the subject. Oh yes, I know the names of some of the Greek Gods, etc. It took someone to explain this setting for me to understan what it was about. Your assumption that "any" educated person would know about this in incorrect. Over 90 million people saw this on television. I guess you must think that all 90 million should have been thourougly educated in the arts of all type. Your educational snob slip is showing.
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Stefanie Chritton
I am a Christian and I wasn’t offended. What happened to freedom of expression? EVERYONE is entitled to express themselves and somebody is ALWAYS going to be offended by what somebody else does or says. If you sit waiting to be offended, you will be offended! God cares for everyone and everything that He made. Psalm 145:9 The Lord is good to all, and his compassion is over all that he has made.
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George S Guida
Yes, the extreme level of ignorance in the United States is embarrassing. Christianity is the youngest of religions, being a conglomerate of a number of other religious ideas rolled into one that was assembled in 365AD by a Roman Emperor. Many if not all Christian holidays were originally those of Pagan and Celtic traditions that Christianity hijacked. With the worldwide Internet available today one would think people would be more well educated but it appears the unlimited treasure trove of information has caused Human intelligence to atrophy.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
you have perfectly described the US, at least.
ignorance (and by extension, religion) is rampant because it doesn't require thinking or, to be more exact, critical thinking skills. that is also why it's so easy to inculcate children and under/ill educated populations into religion, there is no need for critical thinking.
in fact, if you notice, those (here and elsewhere) that are constantly banging their drum and wanting/trying to create a theocracy in the US are in fact intelligent, they have at hand all the arguments to 'prove' the existence of their goD, the veracity of the bibble and how to try and weasel their way past the constitution and the law.
it is willful ignorance on their part, a resounding cognitive dissonance on their part where they can understand science and medicine, and the law yet choose to ignore it all and instead accept their religion as factual and true and proven and all other things as false and misleading. you will find some of those people even in here, trying to twist science, facts and the law in a way that favors them and condemns all others.
what is at least a brighter spot in the darkness that is religion is the occasional spot of light where a person leaves a religion, finally understanding how they had been duped all those years. imagine believing there is a goD that requires, demands its minions heap praise and worship on that goD because that goD can only exist if its minions believe, worship, proselytize, fear and pay money in order for their goD to continue to exist.
in the end, religion is simply another word to describe: ignorance, dictatorship, murder, exclusion, prosecution, egotism, misogyny, infanticide, genocide and surely, other words as well
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Rev. MichaelRS
Out of curiosity, JJ, just exactly what do you consider yourself to be a Reverend or Minister of?
Or are you one of those that simply got your ministership to mock people of faithful.
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Rev. MichaelRS
Definitely a lot of ignorance going on here. Islam is younger than Christianity by slightly over 600 years.
In fact much of the Middle East, which is now considered Islamic, was dominated by Christians at the time of the Muslim conquests and for about 200 years thereafter.
The Muslims conquered the areas by superior force of arms through aggressive ferocity, although they and their religion were not numerically superior generally speaking.
In those areas where they controlled the populations Christians and others were given three options;
(1) Pay a heavy tax for the privilege of being treated like second class citizens, but you would be allowed to live and worship as you please.
(2) Convert to Islam.
(3) Be executed.
Over the years between cultural acclimation and through intermarriage and other factors and given the other two choices it just became easier for the people of the societies to unconsciously do the lazy thing and drift into Islam. That process took many decades but as we know they eventually got there.
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Russel A. Kester
That might well be the fate of Western civilization as well which is a truly sad thought.
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Robert James Ruhnke
May Western (right wing Christians) and Eastern Abrahamic (Islamists) cultists crush each other under their boot heels so the rest of humanity can band together and topple them so we may all be be set free from their spiritual tyranny. You Christians have been no better to Muslims and non Christians over the centuries either. Most of the time just slaughtering people. Not even giving them a chance to convert. Amazing how you both paint a sad one sided picture of history which divests itself of any real truth. I don’t trust either group. Both are murderous and treacherous.
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James R. Harmon
Just to set the record straight: the scene depicted is not The Last Supper. It was a depiction of The Feast of Dionysus or colloquially known as a Bacchanal. It’s sad that people forget that the Olympics began in Ancient Greece. And worse than sad that 1 religious group believes it’s about them that claims it began in the US. Read more and stop supposition.
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Catherine Anderson
James, I agree 100% . Unfortunately, in this day and age there seems to be less of reading and understanding of history and more about playing political drama victims. This is of course not all those who claim to be Christian but more those who still have not learned what it means to be tolerant, understanding, non discriminatory, or what the true definition of “unconditional love and acceptance” means. In all seriousness, as a minister myself, I admit here, that the argument of the Olympics being in any shape or form as “satanic “ is a rather weak, unsatisfactory and ridiculous notion. The Olympics, formerly were used before such events as International Peace Summits or conferences did of a similar nature in their respective ways. They brought people together, they encouraged each other to do better, and designed unity among various different cultures and traditions or peoples. It saddens me when I think of how much the Christian community has become the world’s biggest source of dissenters and always throwing the victim card at others. When if you look back through history they were the ones who usually caused the greatest atrocities and injuries towards other faiths and religions. There are so many beautiful peaceful cultures and beliefs lost due to those who cry out so falsely and I think one day, they will maybe (hopefully) see the reality of the truth rather than just make a lot of statements from lies they’ve been told… just a thought.
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Rev. MichaelRS
Then you are reading the scriptures incorrectly as well as incompletely.
Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived God is not mocked. For whatever a man sows he will also reap"
In this case the word MOCKED is a stand-in for the word FOOLED and sowing and reaping referred to actions and consequences.
So, in other words, what Galatians 6:7 means is;
Don't deceive yourself. God is not made a fool of. Whatever actions you take will have the related consequences.
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Rev. MichaelRS
The Olympic organizers offered an apology or any offense to display caused. You don't over offer apologies if you haven't done anything wrong.
Even IF it was based on the Feast of the Gods they knew exactly how it would be perceived since it's nearly a dead ringer for the last supper and they went ahead with it anyway.
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Dr Rohn
Your point is valid. you could've stopped with the leaving that everything is about them. No need to even add about the Olympics being believed to have been started in the United States.
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Rev. MichaelRS
They're pleading plausible deniability, but those fools knew exactly how it would be perceived. Right up there with the disgusting act of the "Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence".
It's so funny to me how those groups continue to attack and make fun of Christianity but they don't Islam, when guess what would happen to them if the "Gays for Palestine" unfurled their flag and started to march through Gaza, even before the war.
Or never mind Gaza. March through Dearborn, Michigan.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Using Muslims and their issues with LGBTQ+ people to deflect from the monstrous actions which are being taken here in the states is a low sad thing of you to do. The French don’t care for Americans and their selfish ignorance when it comes the world either. You’re getting mad a bogey men like a child.
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Rev. MichaelRS
First off, what MONSTROUS actions are you talking about?
Second, What do you think would happen if you were to hold a pride parade in certain sections of Dearborn, Michigan?
Here's a hint; Whatever happened, it wouldn't come from Christians.
3rd and last. Precisely what boogeyman is it you think I'm getting mad at?
Is it the boogeyman of moral degeneration? Because that's a fact, not a boogeyman.
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Robert James Ruhnke
They’d prolly go on about their day and not act like I was trying to end their existence, the way you carry on. They also banned lgbtq+ flags on government buildings in Dearborn. Sure. Many liberal and moderate Christian’s embrace their LGBTQ+ neighbors. Meanwhile Christians like yourself are the ones trying to outlaw the existence of gender nonconformity and anything LGBTQ+. So stop deflecting and lying, Reverend. It’s bad for you.
You go on an on about Muslims taking away human rights 3-5000 miles away, meanwhile you right wing Christians are trying to do the same here to anyone not white straight or your particular brand of Christian.
Moral degeneration is the same bogeyman you reich wingers keep pushing on people who are just living their lives not according to your superstitious nonsense.
Pick one. Muslims, LGBTQ+, women, trans people, men who don’t conform to your pathetic ideals of masculinity, non Christians.
Whilst I do not trust Muslims, I’ll still defend their right to worship what god they will. The way I advocate for Christian free worship. Which stops the minute they sound war like and obnoxious, your right wing brand of Christianity, Reverend.
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ServantOfJudgement
Michael, if you've got the stomach, look what the two trans dude boxers are doing to the faces and heads of the woman boxers. I don't think even the death of a woman will stop that madness.
Woke says Christian's hate women while they promote men smashing their faces in on live tv. One day a woman will die from this.
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Rev. MichaelRS
I've already seen it. Beyond disgusting. And even though she wasn't physically abused, it's right up there with the type of abuse that man-woman, Leah Thomas did to Riley Gains, and all the other girls, in the swimming and what they're doing the girls and track and field.
But have you ever noticed that it's all of these men to women transitions that are clamoring to get into women's sports and into the bathrooms and locker rooms with women and girls.
You never hear about women to men transitions going on to compete in men's sports or wanting to get into the bathrooms or locker rooms with men and boys.
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Robert James Ruhnke
You don’t because you don’t pay attention to the truth, Mikey. Theres plenty of trans guys getting into sports, it’s just you guys focus solely on trans women. It’s quite the unhealthy obsession y’all have developed. Maybe try looking up facts about trans people instead of porn, Michael. Maybe that’ll help your “research along the way.
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Rev. MichaelRS
No. You don't hear about them because they are not mediocre people in their biological sport who then decide to become men and dominate in men's sports.
Nor do they go into male locker rooms or bathrooms to overtly expose themselves and make a big issue of it.
Like most perversions that sickness is most prevalent and biological males
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Robert James Ruhnke
That’s not why trans women do sports. Maybe that’s the reason you’d transition. Trans isn’t a sickness, your blatant narcissism is, go seek therapy. Trans men are competing and are winning and losing like every other competitor out there. Maybe also broaden your search parameters to not be based on your small minded bigoted mess of arguments you project. Christianity is a mind rot which creates perversion and allows it flourish though. It advocates for slavery and for women to be property and not even human. So no wonder it sounds like you’re talking about livestock. Shame on you Reverend.
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Rev Ned
Read the Bible folks! The whole Bible! Not just the parts that bolster your preconceived beliefs! Don’t just read Leviticus read the New Testament too. If you can’t read go back to school and learn. That said, I realize, if you can’t read, this is futile. Sorry.
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Rev Charles Hicks
I think it's all been blown out of proportion I don't see anything wrong with it It's just entertainment people If you don't like something just don't attend or watch it Rev Hicks
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Joseph Noriel Florendo
And such was the mindset of the romans when they set up and watched the Christians get slaughtered in their roman “games”. It is mere “entertainment for the masses”. Are we not happy we don’t have to witness or participate in those games? Was the olympic opening the start or the end of a new form of atrocity? Agreed we have a choice to participate or not, and even whether to consider this artistic freedom or expression. But since this is a global event which should promote solidarity to promote our humanity, inspite of fierce athletic competition and differences in the participants background. I believe the opening ceremony organizers could have chosen a different scenario to express the French culture and/or origins of the games. Just my thoughts on this topic, as it will be hard for some to celebrate the success of these very inclusive games.
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Alejandro Medina de Wit
You all seem to hate each other
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James A
Performative outrage is what the GOP does best. Jenna Ellis, Bill Mitchell, and the other anonymous twitter sources are fervent and vocal Trump supporters, yet I've not seen them denounce images of Trump as Christ being crucified, or even golden statutes of Trump. Their hypocrisy knows no bounds.
As for the headless Marie Antoinette's...I think France was simply sending a message about their feelings towards fascists. France is a fiercely secular nation and I think the US could learn a lot from them regarding religion's proper place in society. That is, at home, at your place of worship, and out of government.
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Russel A. Kester
Keep religion in its proper place? Perhaps secular humanists, atheists, and similar valueless groups should keep their beliefs in the proper place at home, in their meetings, and our of government. But they don't. They want a right which they would deny Christians. That's hypocrisy.
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Robert James Ruhnke
No Kester, you’re the hypocrite confessing his goals and motives to eliminate secular and humanist values which have always confronted the deep seated hate in your religious views. You’re the one who would deny rights to people. Humanists are just holding you and your silly imagination accountable. Nothing more.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
If the Christian myth, Jesus, was supposed to bring “Peace on Earth, good will towards men” then the only the only act that even came close conveying such a message was the most memorable rendition of “Imagine” I’ve yet to experience (Google it,) it’ll bring tears to your eyes — “Imagine no religion, it’s easy if you try; no more hell below us; above us only sky” and if “Imagine” is offensive to Christians, it’s deservingly so.
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Maria
A very beautiful Beatles song. But unfortunately humans are not. And this world gets more warped by the minute.
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ServantOfJudgement
Indeed Maria. Last century mankind killed over 140 million humans not counting those in the womb.
Mankind's moral compass points to self annihilation and narcissistic delusion.
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Robert James Ruhnke
No thanks to the religious loonies like yourself and Maria being at the spear head of this narcissistic delusion. There is nothing more narcissistic or delusional than having a religious text that says we are made in the image of a god. And then spending a couple thousand years prosecuting non believers in its name. Christianity and Islam being the main twin culprits of today.
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Lori-Ann Neeb
just by presuming you have the right to decide who is 'evil" and who isn't , is proof that you already gave crossed over to a middle area. Lost in confusion in there
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ServantOfJudgement
As a whole the spirit of the Olympics art and performances is dark, sinister and consistent. They've included pale riders, beheaded corpses that sing, golden calves and a replica of a corrupted painting of a painting depicting the last meal of our Creator before his crucifixion.
When my wife and I discussed this last night I suspected what I'd discovered. Satan is the corrupter. He seeks to corrupt the things of God. That's where I entered my investigation.
Van Jan Bijlert copied and corrupted Davinci's painting of the last supper some 200 years later replacing the characters with various gods/demons. This performance is naturally a mocking of Jesus the Christ, his suffering and the redemption he offers for our lost souls. Bijlet's mockery was merely a building block to rest this corruption upon, which even christians are deceived by. This corruption replaces the apostles with transvestites, replaces the Christ with a morbidly obese chick(I think) and adds children, Satan's most favored to corrupt.
To an antichrist this will never be seen as mockery of God, they are blind. It can't be explained or detailed to them. It is literally beyond their ability to plainly see the undeniable and provable facts for ot only are they blind, they are also deficient of hearing. Quite the opposite will occur, they will love it, as Jesus said they would.
Mockery of God is just that. It's not mockery of me or any other Christian. God deals with mockery his way on his time table.
Christian friends, google the Paris power outage that occured after the Olympics opening and see the Sacre Coeur church still illuminated in a dark city, reminiscent of the shining city on a hill the apostle Mathew documented. This was a warning and sign. A warning to the offenders of God and a good sign for those who have eyes. Do not be deceived.
In other news, France is crumbling before our eyes and under their feet. Google that too.
God will not be mocked.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
please stop with your whining about goD and jebus being mocked. they are mock-worthy. they are made-up characters in your bible's version of The Brother's Grimm.
and by the way, aren't you cutting to close to 'knowing the mind of goD?" maybe loosen the sack cloth, take a bath, get a haircut and try to pass yourself off as a normal person. you might get better responses
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ServantOfJudgement
I feel you sleep talk JJ saying things without external input. As I said, what's it to me if you or anyone mocks God? It's your skin, not mine. Lol, someone just said they mock him all day. Even tempted him by daring him to do something about it. Sheesh, whatever, you do you, lol. It's not like I'm Muslim and have to o take matters in my own hands for Allah, which the French know all about these days.
God's a big God, he handles his affairs well enough his way on his time table. Try to remember when he squares up with you he's mighty merciful if you ask for it.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
SHOJ your goD only works on those that believe in her. For others, it's no different than if someone curses or puts the evil on you.
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Russel A. Kester
JJ, SOJ made good observations. And it was something that Paris had a power outage the next night and the only thing lit was a church. Seems you might be attacking SOJ because you're feeling a little insecure about your own beliefs.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
please stop with your pseudo-psychology, it's weak and baby-ish.
I have no insecurity about my beliefs as they are founded and supported by facts and science, unlike you and SHOJ who keep waving that same book of fairy tales around as it were factual.
I am not attacking anyone, simply rebutting them. Funny how people like you, the regressive far far right, kkkristofascists always HAVE to claim martyrdom in the hopes of gaining sympathy. It's tiresome and trite.
I find it interesting that the likes you and SHOJ and others expect your "religous" beliefs to be inviolable and resprected by all (really, why?) and feel attacked when they aren't YET have no compunction attacking those who believe differently and moreover have no compunction attacking people who claim to be differently gendered because you and your ilk have decreed it to be false and harmful.
Read that last sentence again, you and your ilk decree that any variation from M/F doesn't exists, it's false and has to be restricted. And this according to people who still believe and are OKAY with a cloud clown living in the sky, are okay with that cloud clown raping a 13 year old virgin girl and then later causes/allows his bastard child to be tortured, beaten and then murders (a small sampling of his crimes)
So yeah, is it any wonder thinking people are offended and defensive and become offensive in defense of rational thought, science and facts to protect and defend, not just themselves but their/our country from predatory kkkristofascists who are desperate to enshrine their even nastier version of sharia and make this country an evil kkkristofascist theocracy.
And no, SHOJ, you and others do NOT have good points because all of your points revolve around denying and removing people that are not like you.
And you should be very cautious yourself because should those people win and get their way, you as a gay man are in their sights and regardless of how much you claim to be on their side, your gayness will make you a target, just like those in all the other hated groups who will be remanded into custody to "re-education camps'
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Russel A. Kester
Wow, JJ, that really got your dander up. There was way too much in your comment to respond to, but I'll address the last paragraph. The group you identify as 'those people' are my people because 'those people' are liberals just like me. Ya, that's right. I'm a good ol' fashion, God fearing classical liberal. Your ilk has gone so far to the crazy left that liberals look conservative to you. Read that last sentence again. This term 'christofascist' (in whatever way you want to spell it) is sily. It is used to scare people. What nonsense. But I am curious, what are your values and from where do they come? And how do they compare and contrast with what you perceive as conservative values? How do they inform your life to live your authentic self?
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April B
@SoJ, the singing corpse you are referring to was Marie Antoinette (“Let them eat cake.”) She was beheaded by the French people due to her excessive lifestyle during a time when the people were suffering. Had nothing to do with anything remotely biblical.
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ServantOfJudgement
Yea April, I know who the beheaded singing cadaver was supposed to represent. I didn't say that was anything to do with the Bible, I said it was demonic. After all, I'm sure if you saw a singing lady holding her head in your kitchen you'd let out a healthy scream of terror and you know you would. It's a component of an all together sinister display. A fingerprint of the spirit of the age.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
wait, a headless singing corpse is demonic but a person nailed to a stick, stabbed in the heart and laid into a grave and 3 days later rises from the dead is NOT?
a self-appointed savior that raises people from the dead is NOT demonic?
the followers of this zombie-god-ling go on to magically transform bread and wine into the actual BODY AND BLOOD of the zombie and then EAT IT is NOT demonic?
is there no end to the cognitive dissonance you and so many others suffer that allow you to not just believe that nonsense but now want to make laws that would make everyone else believe that same nonsense?
please, seek help before you hurt yourself or worse, others.
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April B
We can agree to disagree. And no, I wouldn’t be afraid if I saw that in my home. I’d have a nice conversation with them. 👻
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Russel A. Kester
LOL. Well, April, when I saw a ghost in my house, I couldn't even think let alone carry on a conversation, I just stared not believing my eyes!
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Dawn
But we don’t have demons without religions. Cuz fear is the greatest controller. So ‘demonic’ is directly related to ‘bibles’.
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Lady Mutt Cat
It’s so sad that your god has no sense of humor. Why on earth would you worship such a boring god when there are so many other fun ones?
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ServantOfJudgement
God indeed has a fantastic sense of humor, where do you think we get ours from? He had a satanic temple in Israel converted to a public toilet. Archeologists found that very temple/toilet a few years back. That's pretty funny. Look what he's doing to this guys in Asia that worship a monkey. Pretty funny stuff.
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Catherine Anderson
Quick question: How much of the sacrament wine did you and your wife get into during your warped perception? Please forgive me, what I meant to say is, are you a ‘pop historian ‘ expert on the subject of Olympics? Asking for a friend… For goodness sakes, stop being a cockwhoppit and get a better understanding of the historical context of the games…
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Christine
Will not be mocked? Are you sure? I do it at least 10 times before breakfast. I double-god dare him to do anything about it
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Dawn
🤗 ‘he’ is probably laughing with you! After all, if ‘he’ created everything then … I probably am the source of quite a bit of daily godly guffawing !
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ServantOfJudgement
Catherine, it's illegal to murder in all 50 states yet people do it every single day. How can they possibly do this if it's illegal?
As it is with God's law, you're free to break them ten times a day until you're not.
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Dawn
’ServantofJudgememt’? Wow. Now that’s a title!
Oh and that church probably has massive generators… My house has power during an outage, too.
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ServantOfJudgement
Of course they had a generator dawn. Foresight and preparation pays. For some reason atheists think God uses magic to get things done.
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Dawn
You did read your own post, correct? It insinuated that the church being lit during an outage was some sign…
Glad you agree it was just human money and forethought.
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ServantOfJudgement
Yes, I said you'd be blind to, rather Jesus said he t, I only repeated it.
Only the church had the thought to prepare for the worst. Only the church. Not a mosk, not a government build, not apartment complexes, not business. A church on a hill. A shining church on a hill. A spectacular sight.
It's right in front of your face. Still you'll not see it.
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Richard T. Warn
They denied that this was mocking the Last Supper and insisted it was depicting a Greek Feast. To the contrary the Olympic Commission issued an apology. You don' t apologize for something that didn't happen. The world is in turmoil.
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Stefanie Chritton
I am a Christian and I wasn’t offended. Some Pastors use risky sermon titles, play on words and secular music to get others into the doors of a church building, how is this any different? Is because the Pastor had a good intention with what was being presented so people are okay with it? If anything, Christians make a mockery of God himself. What happened to freedom of expression? EVERYONE is entitled to express themselves and somebody is ALWAYS going to be offended by what somebody else does or says. If you sit waiting to be offended, you will be offended! God cares for everyone and everything that He made. Psalm 145:9 The Lord is good to all, and his compassion is over all that he has made.
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Heidi A Heise
The energy of the opening ceremony was dark. However, I chose to focus on the excitement and exhilarating energy radiating from the athletes. These gifted individuals exude their light from within as they embark on their journey to inspire and unite the human race from all over the world. The light always shines the brightest through the darkness, as love will always Conquer fear. It's up to you what you choose to focus on. I choose love and light! That's how we change the world.
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Theresa C. Marquess
For me, it was a simple choice. Yes, I found it offensive, so I did not watch or support the Olympics.
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TA
Of course they intentionally mocked the Christian faith. They have been doing that forever.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
What's your thoughts/feelings on Islam?
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Catherine Anderson
As previously mentioned by myself in other comments, I see the beauty and simplicity behind all facets of religion including Islamic. I see the Creator as being a perfectly sculptured clear gemstone that is the purest form of light from within. A light which those of a spiritual nature seek to reach for, different religions and practices come about due to the fact we crowd the gem. In other words, depending on what facet you are looking at or seeing gives a different perspective on the light, even a different color. There is great good in all aspects of the paths in life just as there can be great darkness. …. just another thought to my day..😊
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Rev. MichaelRS
I'll jump in an answer.
(1) I absolutely hate IslamIST; The regime in Iran, the Taliban in Afghanistan, Hamas, Hezbollah, as well as their cohorts in Europe (like the ones that shot up the offices of Charlie Hebdo in France) N. America (like the ones marching in Dearborn Michigan yelling death to America).
(2) I have no truck with the other peaceful, yet ineffectual, "moderate" Muslims in the world.
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Rev. Fr. Craig Goral D.D.
I did not see any depiction of the last supper. At least to my understanding of DaVinci painting.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
Bearing in mind that da Vinci's painting was from his imagination. He painted what he thought that apocryphal story would look like based on his own life experiences.
If the jebus wore horns and his apostles were in drag, to depict them today differently would render the same reaction (plus, consider a jewish man in his thirties, never married, lives eats and sleeps with 12 other men and has one or two women (allies) who accompany them everywhere, if that doesn't have the makings of a Fabulous Last Brunch I don't know what does (p.s. jebus WAS gay))
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Russel A. Kester
JJ, it was not uncommon for men of that era to not marry until they were in their late 20's to early 30's because they needed to build the wealth required to marry. They would then often marry a young woman between 15 to 20. Sometimes the bride could be as young as 12. However, since the Christ felt he had a mission to save humanity and that he would die, he knew that it would be unwise to marry. And why stoke animosity by referring to Jesus as jebus? What emotions cause such behavior?.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Because your animosity and performative outrage is self stoked for you fundie wannabes. Jesus was never real. lol Yeshua of a Galilee was a mortal man, with mortal cravings, dude still prolly got some and left some DNA behind. Though it’s probably gone after it bombed out of existence by Israel. But that’s another conversation.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
RAK let's work backwards. jebus was not real. did a person exist by that name back then, could be, maybe. but so what if he did. it doesn't make him what you think he was. just an uneducated stone mason maybe.
you can not know what the jebus thought, it's just your desires and beliefs your telegraphing onto a person that likely never existed
as to the age of marriage, I found this: "Marriage took place at a young age for the ancient Jews. Most rabbis proposed 18 as the most appropriate age for men to be married, but it wasn’t uncommon for them to be younger, especially in times of peace. Young women were married almost as soon as they were physically ready, approximately age 13."
the above comes from a website called adw with an .org at the end of it. interestingly it's from a group that should know what they're talking about, the catholics
so yeah, waiting until 20s or 30s to accrue wealth...where did you get your information? I mean, what I quoted is from a catholic website for doG's sake. catholic!! not some rando kkkrist chin strip mall church or white man mega church, this is from the horse's (donkey's) mouth.
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Russel A. Kester
JJ, per Google AI, "While the ideal age for marriage in Judaism was in the teens, men typically married later: Palestine: Men married around age 30 to women who were 10–15 years younger Babylonia: Men married around age 20 to women in their teens Talmud: Recommends that men marry between ages 16–24, or ideally at age 18" which it retrieved from this site: https://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2002/2002.07.37/#
It's a Jewish site so it should understand it's history quite well.
I did see that there was an increase in the age of marriage for men from early teens to the twenties as one goes from the ancient Hebrews to the Israel of 2,000 years ago. I'm sure this change can cause some confusion. This has been an interesting discussion.
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Russel A. Kester
JJ, I must make a correction to my comment. The site is not a Jewish site. It was Bryn Mawr Classical Review and is a quote from a book review written by Tawny Holm of Indiana University of the book, Jewish marriage in antiquity, published by Princeton University Press and written by Professor Michael L. Satlow with his Ph.D. in Ancient Judaism from the Jewish Theological Seminary of America. Glad to corrected the record.
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Dana Joan Reynolds
Save your outrage for the true atrocities, maybe. This warrants amusement, at best. Or, simply walk away.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
you don't understand, this so-called mockery of their religion is of more concern, more importance that babies, children and adults being shot to death in places where all they were looking for was a fun time.
the people that are upset about the opening ceremony are surprisingly not upset or concerned about the number of people that die every year from guns. they also only care about lives from the moment sperm leaves the testicle to the moment the baby is born. from there on it's none of their concern what happens to that child, until age 18, at which that baby can now buy guns.
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Dr Rohn
Obviously you don't like guns. Is that what you're saying? Oh, wait, do you also believe a rape victim should be held responsible for bringing another child into this demented world and likewise be forced to nurture and support them at the loss of her own dreams, goals, and desires? Maybe I'm missing your point ask together. I can accept that.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
obviously your reading and comprehensions skills need work.
I never said or intimated that I don't like guns, you did
I never said anything about a rape victim
What I said was pretty clear, the complaining kkkristofascists are upset about a silly performance rather than be upset about the things that matter, like kids and babies and even adults being killed by guns.
And then I said that all they are worried about (and implied that when it comes to reproductive freedom and abortion) THEY only care about the fetus up til birth and then don't care at all about it until the fetus turns 18 and can then buy a gun (because THEY don't want ANY restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms)
Not sure where you got your silly interpretation but it's clearly NOT what I said, or implies.
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Esther Cecilia Hermosillo Solis
I wouldn't be bothered even if it was a Last Supper representation. I found more than 50 Last Supper representations in pop culture. I found The Sopranos, The Simpsons, Battlestar Galactica, The Expendables, House... just to mention some. And I didn´t see the outrage showed here. Which got me thinking... I don´t think the problem was to think it was a Last Supper representation. The problem was who was representing it (if it was the Last Supper which is not). While it wasn´t a problem that a bunch of drunks was representing it (The Simpsons), a bunch of mafia guys (The Sopranos), a narcissist doctor (House), mercenaries-killers (The Expendables), and I can go on... the problem was that in this occasion it was drag queens. Let´s remember that drag is an entertainment form such as kabuki in Japan, and not a sexual orientation or practice. Yes, drags queens have been usually gay men, usually but heterosexual men has been too because again, it´s not a sexual practice. And I thing more would do it for the fun and the experience but sadly, masculinity is fragile. Women we have no problem dressing as men for fun and we don´t receive the kind of scoffing men receive , but we know that this is due to the rejection of all that is considered feminine and the misoginy. But going back to the point....the outrage is not because this supposed mockery, is because the people representing the so called Last Supper are in the minds of the outraged persons morally below mafia guys or killers. Persons who love and express their identity in different ways are morally below. That sounds like bigotry to me. As a former catholic I can´t see the mockery. God was for me something so incredible big that these very terrestrial issues were totally out of their mind. As a common sense person I can see that some biblical themes are now cultural touchstones, like The Apocalypse and all the cultural products related and I don´t see the outrage with the loosely based movies about it. So.. I´m glad this conversation was out and terrible terrible sad to discover the bogotry in the communities that should be following Jesus teachings. And if I am allowed... all the people saying that the ceremony wasn´t mostly about the athletes... have you seen Olympic Openings before? The ceremonies are about the athletes marching by and the country culture. And this ceremony was very very french. I just remembered the opening of London 2012 where Eric Idle sang "Always look at the bright side of life" which is the ending of the movie "Life of Brian" and was considered blasphemous and was banned in many countries. What happened with the outrage? Or it is because Eric Idle is an hetero man? Keeps you thinking....
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Cameron Randall Lewis
It would make more sense that they are paying homage to the Greek gods since the Olympic Games trace their roots to ancient Greece. A Bacchanal was a Roman feast celebrating the god Bacchus, known to the Greeks as Dionysus, aka, the blue guy on the platter. These feasts were know for their excess in all aspects, whether held by the Romans or the Greeks. After all, he was the god of wine and pleasure.
I feel that the controversy is overblown, and people are looking for something to be mad at. It's easy to claim that they're making fun of your own religion when you won't even think about researching the symbolism of other faiths...
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John M. Endress
It was so easy to miss the point of the performance. The producers should have done a better job of communicating the point they intended
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Dr Rohn
If, in fact, their point was merely French exceptionalism, I agree they failed miserably in making it. Personally, religion aside, I'm just so tired of having the sexual agenda forced upon me at every juncture and opportunity. But, I also am not one to point fingers of offensiveness for the things outside of my desired appropriateness.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Oh good grief. SO much faux outrage and screaming hate. I swear, I rolled my eyes so hard at all the "christians" throwing temper tantrums over this, that they risked falling out of my skull.
First off, this was NOT a mockery of, or depiction of, the Last Supper. It was an homage to a painting of a bacchanal. This was a large celebration that honored the god Dionysius. The Greek God of Wine. The celebration was a way for farms to come together, compete with each other, and to enjoy each others' company. And, guess what? The Olympics is a GREEK event in the beginning. And guess what culture Dionysus comes from?
Second, people on the parallel bars and other competitions are not "mocking god" or "mocking jesus" by competing. What's going on are idiots taking still shots of something that lasts less than 10 seconds, and then throwing their photos up on the internet screaming "Der mokin' god! Der zatinsts!!!!" People are absolutely determined to hate and find a reason to be pissed off these days rather than just enjoy the competitions.
In many ways, those screaming hate and rage over it are the ones that the spirits of evil are truly trying to recruit into their folds.
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Robert James Ruhnke
I always welcome and enjoy your views. They’re refreshing compared to the many drab liars around this blog.
Thank you Bridget. 😊
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Melanie Lynn Beck
"Der mokin' god! Der zatinsts!!! Isn't this phrase showing hatred towards southern born individuals or those from the Appalachian region? I am personally amazed about how many people in this country think all hatred comes from the south or they southern people are ignorant but if I remember correctly a West Viriginian send us to space as the surgeon who created the Di Vinci robort they used to save lives in surgery everyday.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Nope Melanie. It isn't a phrase "showing hatred toward southern born individuals" nor is it "hating on people from the Appalachian region" What makes you think that? I'm mocking the morons who are screaming hate and throwing absolute temper-tantrums over the opening ceremony, trying to claim the depiction of a greek bacchanal is, somehow mocking the god they worship. Or that a 10 second form on the rings is somehow "flipping off jesus." because of the way the person's body looks for a few seconds. These morons absolutely ignore the fact that these moves are done to show physical body strength and is part of a set routine they do on the rings, not "Doin' the cross to try to flip off da lord!"
And yeah I'm well aware of how ignorant some people in the south can be, but don't be fooled. There's a lot of a&& hles here up north that are just as bad. And act just as moronically. I'm not showing hatred toward the south or the individuals from the Appalachias. What in the name of Gaia would make anyone think me mocking these dead-heads is me "hating" on people due to where they live or where they were born?
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Vincent Van As
Leonardo da Vinci’s The Last Supper reflects Christian themes but draws heavily from pre-Christian traditions (FACT). The use of a long table and communal meal, symbolism of light and betrayal, and artistic techniques all echo earlier mythologies and religious practices. For instance, ancient banquet scenes, Mithraic rituals, and Egyptian sacred feasts influenced its depiction. Christianity has incorporated many elements from these older religions. Religious Radicals need to know what the meaning of Living a divine life involves. It is living in harmony with wisdom and compassion, empowering others, embracing diversity, and fostering unity. Celebrate life, explore its mysteries, and inspire understanding to create a balanced and enlightened world. Not through dictation and claim to rights that does not belong to them.
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Russel A. Kester
Vincent, I can't quite agree with your thoughts about the origins of the last supper or its symbolism. It was based on Jewish customs to celebrate when the Angel of Death passed over the houses of the Jewish people enslaved in Egypt. Having communal meals is an ancient practice in families since time immemorial. Also, there are other passages in the New Testament which depict Jesus sitting at a table with others such as tax collectors. So, I think Da Vinci was replicating those truths but, like Hollywood does, he had to put everyone on one side of the table so that we could see their faces.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Most cultures used to have communal meals around large tables, that doesn’t mean they all took it from judeo christian cultural practices, Kester. Your performative outrage has gone to your head.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, that's why I wrote, "Having communal meals is an ancient practice in families since time immemorial." So there was no performative outrage. Just a poor reading of my comment..
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Robert James Ruhnke
Your whole argument this entire conversation has been performative outrage.
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Russel A. Kester
Not on my part.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Every other comment, yes.
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Scott Thornweaver
I seriously wonder how many of these internet morality warriors hiding behind their screens actually watched the ceremony, or if they did how many thought to be offended by any of this until someone on the internet told them to be offended?
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Stefan Schulz
Whose spirit dominates the Paris Olympics at the will of the secular "elite"?
A. See Revelation 6:8 "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."
How do the worldly governments relate to this spirit?
B. See James 4:4 "Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God."
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James Mounts
What better way to open the Olympic Games in which men will be competing against women, than with a bunch of female impersonators. Works for me.
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Michael Hunt
Transgender athletes aren't allowed to compete at the Olympics... Do some research before saying ignorant things.
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Christine
They are. I don't what what sort of rules there are regarding it but Hergie Bacyadan is a trans man competing for the Philippines in boxing. Maybe only trans men can compete? I don't know. All I know is there is at least 1 trans Olympic athlete
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Maria
We all have our own opinions. But when I want to watch a sports event, I don’t need to see drag queens! And neither do my children! If you can’t understand that then you’re the problem.
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Dawn
Don’t watch the opening ceremonies-that’s not ‘sports’. You’re welcome.
The beauty of televisions is the power button-and I hear they also have mute! Why does the world have to subscribe to your opinion? Once again the religious forcing their religions down everyone’s throats. Is that a WWJD thing?
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Robert James Ruhnke
Then change the channel. Grow up. The rest of us don’t have to capitulate to your childish demands.
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Dawn
Comment removed by user.
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April B
I don’t think it was a mockery at all. The performance was fun and fashion all the way!!! ALL the performances were excellent! Especially Celine Dion! Love it! 🫶🏼🇫🇷🎭
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Peggyann Johnson-Hansen
There are many translations of what the Olympic Opening Ceremony was meant to depict, however, the setting at the long table for this depiction makes it difficult to relate it to the other translations such as: The French Revolution or the Greek Gods at play. The Olympics encompass a variety of sporting competitions between countries around the world. Those who attend beside the athletes, coaches, and specific entourages for each type of sporting event, remain a combined audience of spectators, families, and children. This presentation was a slap in the face to all religions. If this disrespectful opening ceremony goes against one religious group in the world others will come next if such displays, go unchecked. Christians may or may not turn the other cheek, however, there are world religious groups with more back bone that may have attacked the Country of France for allowing this inappropriate opening ceremony. I for one now refuse to watch the 2024 Olympics in protest of this opening ceremony.
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Russel A. Kester
Well said Peggyann.
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Mathew Mowbray
The Olympics are no longer about sport, it is all politics and sponsorship.
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Man of God
Watch the competitors. They are not into politics. They focus only on the moment they have a chance to win. Why? Winning against another human who is trying to beat you feels better than any high. When people witness this, especially in person, they feel that emotion from the core of our being. That is what the competition is all about. Just that moment, that feeling that cannot be duplicated.
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Patrick Meier
This has nothing to do with "being French" and this dishonest or perhaps ignorant statement is invalid. On the contrary, most French find this unnecessary and offensive themselves. I can only decide for myself what I will and won't tolerate. And hence will no longer watch anything, no Eurovision, no Olympics that shows what I believe is totally immoral. Why show perversion openly to kids who depend on us for guidance and to teach them what's right and what's wrong, what's good and what's evil. Why in the world would we want to influence like that where we teach them that there is no difference between marrying a men or a woman, teach them sexual organ mutilation is great and if you are tired with your gender you can change it? Why do we glorify fornication in front of children? In the end, religion doesn't even have to enter the discussion necessarily - healthy human reasoning suffices. I say let not perversion be continuously marketed to children, I say protect your children from mental sickness for Gods sake.
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Steven Ferrell
This was a total mockery of Christianity. The alphabet bunch say they want to be accepted and yet do all they can including things like this to build walls.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
so let me guess, you preference is that instead of the gay community building walls, it should be the straight community, your community, building the walls but, to keep the gays out but rather, keep them in. As in, confined, as in jailed. as in so you and your kind don't have to accept or deal with them. am I right? I bet I am, honey
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Russel A. Kester
Hold on there JJ, why are you trying to speak for the gay community. First, you have self-identified as trans. Second, I am gay, absolutely and 100%, and I agree with Steve that the performance was a mockery of the Christian sacrament of the Eucharist at the last supper. Why do trans suddenly start speaking on behalf of the gay community like this? Oh ya, it likes to use gays as shields. Not this time dear, you stand in your own..
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
WTH are you talking about, trans? I am not trans and never said I was. You are either fabricating or delusional. I have here and in other blogs mentioned in passing that I am gay, I also have a husband, both of us male at birth and to this day.
So what I'm seeing here with you now is, in order to deflect (and insult and harm) you call people trans which in your case, is used as a mean, petty and spiteful epithet. In fact I suspect that you're one of those mean-girl gays that claw at the community around them for not behaving to your strict (and oddly weird) rules of behavior.
Sorry but you don't have a lock on gay, being gay and you certainly don't get to speak for the gay community. Maybe moving forward you limit your pronouncements as simply your limited, mean-spirited attacks at others here. I mean seriously you are not nice here to people you disagree with. And it is because of people like you, that violate the purpose of the ULC that compels me to point out the fallacies and nonsense of you and others
As for speaking for the gay community, again, WTH are you talking about. It's been pretty clear all along that you have set yourself up here as the gay man in charge although self-appointed so that really doesn't count for anything.
Please stop with the mockery of....., it's all make believe: cloud clown goD, jebus, virgin conquest, etc etc. Religion truly is the opiate of the masses and there you are, smack dab in the middle of the masses
Really, for the love of DOG maybe reel in your claws and behave and play nice. The ULC promotes ALL beliefs here. Sad that you don't
tah
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Russel A. Kester
JJ, I truly thought you'd identified as trans in one of your comments. My apologies. Although I'm surprised you'd consider it an insult.
As far speaking as a gay man, yes, I do that and make clear that I am speaking for myself. As I've written many times here, that's all any of us can do. No one can speak on behalf of a people grouped with universal statements. As for people getting other's sexuality wrong, you wrote, "...it should be the straight community, your community...." I'm not straight. And neither did I jump down your throat for your mistake. I merely stated my sexual orientation clearly and factually dear. I write about and defend my understanding of the Christian faith against those who are forever criticizing it here. If you have a belief that adds to the comments then express it instead of demeaning Christianity. The name of the central character in Christianity is Jesus (in English) not jebus. Writing jebus is insulting. So retract your own claws Mary.
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Russel A. Kester
JJ, I must make a correction to my statement. You did not say that I'm straight. You were talking to Steven when you said that. My bad. After awhile it's easy to confuse who said what to whom.
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Alicia Susan Matthews
Being a Christian, being a theater geek I can't believe that Paris the home of such culture and art choose this horrific display as what they want to be remembered by. It was not a top notch production. I would have much preferred a glorious production of "Can you Hear The People Sing" and other French historical attributes as host countries usually do! A runway show with Famous French designers. More about France!
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Thomas F. Kistner
Is mocking religion offensive? Yes. The problem as I see it is deeper. The anti-Judeo/Christian sentiment across the globe is alarming.
I wonder if the same depiction had Mohammad and arab garb would have offended the Muslim world with only peaceful outrage. We as people of this world have lost the sensibility towards the values of respect for others and their beliefs. We have left a few minorities of various beliefs become martyrs by a press corps that lives on sensationalism (both progressive and conservative) and they believe that all moral values are suspect. I believe we need to look inside ourselves. We innately know what is right and wrong. Pastor T.
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Samuel Tamayo
It is written Galation, 6 , 7- 8 . Do not be deceived. God cannot be mocked. Hear me when I say God cannot be mocked. To Adulterers and blasphemers, you shall reap what you sow. Whoever reaps to please their flesh from the flesh you shall sow destruction. Whoever sows to please the spirit from the spirit will sow Eternal life. All in his time the mocking will be addressed to in his own way . Warning to those associating with the mockers. Unavoidable events will come, blame not the lord for their blasphemous mockery and the Judgment for which you will stand in alongside those Who blaspheme the Lord God. 🤨. So it is written so it will be done .
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Dana Joan Reynolds
Okay, since God CANNOT be mocked, what is the problem? I read this scripture as "God is above this petty foolishness. Simmer down over there, you bring your own problems on yourselves. Leave God out of it."
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Keith D
Ok. It's Olympic gods. Are they happy with it? Maybe they are! I would guess not, but I haven't asked them. Has anyone? Would we listen if they spoke? Why or why not? Are they speaking now?
I rolled my eyes at the depiction. Oh well. I don't really care: the fact remains that the Olympic Games have become a means of making statements and not focusing on Unity or even athletic prowess as were ostensibly the points of the games.
Let us unite (acknowledge our unity) as single sovereigns, ruling no one and being ruled by Divinity only, whatever conception one has of it, accountable for harms and subject to any kind of ruler only when a genuine Earthly harm has been done and requires a judge and imposition of rightful Earthly justice! All else is between the individual and The Divine.
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James Richard Norby
The opening ceremony was about Greek mythology. Some might recall that the Greeks created the Olympics.
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Mark P. Bender
They are simply trying to cultivate religion away from God to their own mission of Pagan rituals. Remember Corinth as Paul wrote them several times. Sodom and Gomorrah. All examples of Judgement that came from God. Yes He is a Loving God but shall have no False God's before Him. The Ceremonial Display Embraces Paganism. For that his Wrath is great, and so the City of Lights went Dark and that was message enough for me. He separated Light from Darkness and French Christians turned out by the Thousands holding His light. For this reason I see Evil not Good in it all. Pray for repentance for what Man does against His Word. Its a daily Battle. Thank You.
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Gary James Thomas Garrett
As I watched the opening ceremonies, parts of them were amazing, parts of them were OK, and parts of them were kinda dumb. It would be only my opinion of which parts were which. (although I did think the silver horse on the water was the best part.) However, because there were parts that I disliked, or was even offended by, I didn't attempt to deride and degrade it all to anyone who would listen. There is so much else on TV that I find immensely vulgar (MTV anyone?) and you know how I react? I SHUT IT OFF and don't watch it. I DON'T attempt to condemn it because of some god or whatever. And I really don't get offended to my very core: "well that's stupid, I'll never watch that again" is my reaction, or maybe "well that's awful, I wonder what's on channel 20?" click, click. That's also my reaction to all the mega-pasters promising miracles for money - now that's vugar.
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Dr Rohn
I smile!
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PT Barnum
Actually the French designer of the ceremony talked live about the ceremony and said it was based on Da Vinci’s Last Supper. He said it was intended to display France’s inclusive culture and acceptance.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Where did he say that?
https://www.today.com/today/amp/rcna163929
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Kathryn Darcy Smith
As a transgender person I find all drag OFFENSIVE AND DISGUSTING! It has no place near our children or the Olympics!
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Robert James Ruhnke
That’s certainly one woman’s opinion for sure. LMFAO. The only thing here offensive is your lame attempt at insulting a wonderful art, and a nasty perversion of something simple and entertaining.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
And yet your most reliable, most welcoming community for trans has always been the LGBTQ community. Your hatred for/at them seems very misplaced as you most likely experienced much of the same from the cis/heteronormative community. Maybe continue on with your therapy and see if you can dig down to why your anger is misplaced. Our community will always support you
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Russel A. Kester
Kathryn, thank you for your thoughts. I hope that in future posts you will elaborate on them. And don't let the haters get to you, they snarl at anyone who doesn't immediately bow to their own opinionated positions.
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Robert James Ruhnke
The way you snarl at anyone who doesn’t bow to your ego, Kester? lol why you always lyin?
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
Interestingly in today's NYTs is an article about the Paris Olympics Opening and how the artistic director has been receiving onlne harassing and death threats.
Who would want to harass, much less threaten to kill the artistic director? Another director who didn't get the job? A drag queen who felt left out or not hired?
Given that the controversy appears to have started here in the US and by an american kkkristofascist one can only assume that others of his ilk are behind the harassment. As for the death threats, well that takes a very special kind of "christian" now, dunnit? So it becomes clearer every day, each time that christinsanity is still seeking a lower new low and are rapidly approaching the manic, homicidal mind set that has taken over half of islam. And so now the world will have to deal with CHRISTIAN JIHADISTS along with the regular islamic jihadists.
SMFH at the things people will, and/or are convinced to do in the name of their particular flavor of religious cognitive dissonance. And at least, as far as CHRISTIAN JIHADIST TERRORISM goes we can all be proud and grateful that it's 'murican, home grown CHRISTIAN JIHADIST TERRORISM, no more of that imported jihadism, strictly homegrown TERRORISM from here on out.
WIN FOR JEBUS!
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Russel A. Kester
The opening ceremony mocked Christianity and showed the complete depravity of the woke, trans and queer ideologies. 83% of those who saw it thought it was vulgar and offensive. Which it was. I hope this horrid display will help the entire world to wake up and rid itself of this soulless ideology that must mock and suck the life out of anything good because it lacks anything of value in itself.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
Oh Russel. How can you label my transgender child as “depraved?” When did you meet them? What did they do that has you so upset? Did they hurt or harm you? Did they say bad words to you? Please let me know so that I can take appropriate disciplinary action and accept my apology for birthing a human being that you find so offensive! Would you advise me to stone them or beat them until they no longer breathe?! Oh course (not) because you have the love in your heart of a true (fake) christion.
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Russel A. Kester
Elizabeth, I address trans and queer ideologies. It is these ideologies that are wrong and devoid of moral or ethical values. Anyone can be taken in by bad theories. It doesn't make them bad people, just misinformed. Adults parodying the last supper showed that community's values and actions to be offensive not the other way around. As to who is a true or fake Christian, that is up to God to judge. But I see that some, so full of self-delusion, take it upon themselves to judge as if they were God himself.
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Rev “D”
Trans and queer ideologies are wrong & devoid of morality or ethical value? Then you go on to say up to god to judge, yet here you are addressing those ideologies as wrong. So you think you god now? More amusing is how god needs a mere mortal to judge for him. SMDH.
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Russel A. Kester
"D" you're conflating two different discussions and topics. I assess ideologies as we all do, even you. That's one topic. I do not judge who is or is not a good Christian. That is the second topic.
So, no my comments do not indicate that I think I'm now God. They indicate the opposite.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Scolding another phantasm I see. You know all about sucking the life out of anything good, don’t you Kester? You do it every time you attempt to insult and gaslight LGBTQ+ people or women. Always siding with tbd oppressor.
The ceremony had to do with a Bachanalia and nothing to do with Christianity. 83% lol what an odd number to pull out of thin air. More like only 40% and they’re mad only because they were told to be mad, like yourself. The day your lot come up with an original thought will be the day Marie Antoinette comes back from the grave using her own head as a soccer ball. The world already has woken up to the evils of right wing Christian prejudice and bigotry you push, and we are trying to not to cow-tow to it anymore. Always the sad veiled threats too, Kester? Grow up.
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Russel A. Kester
Again, I spoke of the ideology portrayed by the event which I called soulless and said that it sucked the life from anything good. Which it does as it has no goodness in itself. And it is society and Christianity that must stop cow-towing to intimidation tactics as displayed in your comment.
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Robert James Ruhnke
No Kester, the Olympics have nothing to do with Christianity, you’re pushing two projected phantasms. What I said isn’t intimidation, it’s accountability commentary, it only seems intimidating to you because you’re used to people buying into your snake oil rouse. This scene was based on a painting which shows Greco feast for the eyes. I am pagan, and for 2000 years we’ve had to deal with the bad mouthing and lies your zealous lot has been pushing for too long.
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Russel A. Kester
Well, Robert, the central figure in the display disagrees with you as 'she,' Barbara Butch, posted on 'her' Instagram account that it was a depiction of the last supper. And as SOJ pointed out the painting to which you refer is itself a blasphemy of the last supper painting. So, no projections on my part.
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Robert James Ruhnke
It took me less than ten seconds to look this up. You’re a liar, Kester. You project and you lie. It’s all you do. The art director of the whole thing said it had nothing to do with Davinci’s work. Again, you’re projecting phantasms where there aren’t any. Lying to get your way? How right wing Christian of you.
“Jolly added it was obvious that the tableau was not inspired by The Last Supper given the presence of a figure representing the Greek god Dionysus.” “But some viewers who interpreted it as a reference to the painting said they were offended by the similarities.“
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0xj358y7n5o.amp
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, I saw a clip of 'her' post. And don't call me a liar. I don't say anything that I don't believe to be true or have good reason to believe to be true. I disagree with you about a lot, but I don't call you a liar. Some courtesies and decorum are usual and customary in discourse. I don't really care what the art director has to say after this all blew up and the IOC pulled the ceremony from its video to do some repairs to its reputation. And you're going to site the BBC as a source? That's hilarious 😂.
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Robert James Ruhnke
It’s more than you’re posting. You don’t even back your claims with evidence. I have more than just BBC to back my claim. All you have is a whisper of X. Which is just hearsay. I believe you believe your own lies, Kester. Nor am I surprised by this. I have no reason to lie, Kester. By denying what Jolly said, especially as he dressed in Blue as a depiction of Dionysus/Bachus, A god of my pantheon. One I hold very dear. Blue is A color which has nothing to do with depictions of Christ. He planned it to be a celebration of Greek culture and nothing to do with Christianity. It showed in the minute details he planned. He wasn’t saying that as crowd control. Both of these and your lack of actual evidence completely invalidates your claim. So. Either you are wrong. Or. You are a manipulative liar. I am Candid with my discourse. I will not sugar coat my words, nor will I hold back from calling out your horrendous behavior and attitudes. No matter how politely you try to hide them.
The ceremony’s artistic director, Thomas Jolly, has denied the sequence, called “Festivity,” was inspired by the da Vinci painting. He said the scene was drawn from Greek mythology, specifically an homage to the Greek god Dionysus, and the aim of the tableau was to “talk about diversity.” I think this is where you guy twist peoples words to make your phantasms in this situation.
“We wanted to include everyone, as simple as that,” Jolly said Saturday at an International Olympic Committee media briefing. “In France, we have freedom of creation, artistic freedom.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/sports/olympics/target-last-supper-ire-paris-olympics-takes-legal-action-rcna164275
https://www.today.com/today/amp/rcna163929
https://www.euronews.com/culture/2024/07/30/paris-olympics-dj-and-activist-barbara-butch-files-cyberbullying-complaint-after-opening-c
I can find more evidence to back my claims.
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Russel A. Kester
"A Paris 2024 Olympics spokesperson admitted the controversial drag show version of “The Last Supper” seen in Friday’s opening ceremony was indeed inspired by the iconic da Vinci mural — despite attempting to vehemently deny it following fierce backlash.
“Thomas Jolly took inspiration from Leonardo da Vinci’s famous painting to create the setting,” an Olympics spokesperson admitted to The Post in a statement on Saturday, referring to the opening ceremony creative director." https://nypost.com/2024/07/26/sports/drag-performers-seemingly-emulate-last-supper-at-olympic-opening-ceremony/
The Advocate, also had a similar article and a clip of her post.
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James Riggle-Johnson
I wouldn't believe anything written in the NYPost. It's a tabliod.
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Russel A. Kester
That's why included that the Advocate has the same information. I referenced the post because it actually had a picture of Barbara Butch's post to read for onesself.
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Robert James Ruhnke
In a 2004 survey conducted by Pace University, the Post was rated the least-credible major news outlet in New York, and the only news outlet to receive more responses calling it "not credible" than credible (44% not credible to 39% credible). You try to use a right wing rag as evidence? At the least the BBC is credible. lol
Meanwhile. From The advocate article you’re misquoting is obvious.
“Thomas Jolly, the openly gay artistic director for the ceremony, told the BFM that depiction had not been his intention. "The idea was to do a big pagan party linked to the gods of Olympus," he said. "You'll never find in my work any desire to mock or denigrate anyone,” Jolly said.” https://www.advocate.com/politics/republicans-drag-last-supper-olympics#toggle-gdpr 👀
“The Paris Olympic Committee has apologized many were offended but also said there was no intention to mock faith. “Clearly there was never an intention to show disrespect to any religious group,” Paris 2024 spokesperson Anne Descamps said at a press event, according to the Associated Press.” https://www.advocate.com/politics/republicans-drag-last-supper-olympics#toggle-gdpr 👀
Youre wrong or you’re a liar. 🤥 🤷🏻♂️
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, from the same article in the Advocate, "something Butch seemed to confirm in a since-deleted Instagram post reading “Oh yes! Oh yes! The gay new testament!” She posted 'Oh yes! Oh yes! The gay new testament' to her social media account, then she deleted it, and later tried to walk it back. I am not the liar here and you are not the liar here. She is the liar here.
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Robert James Ruhnke
She’s not the liar here, I am not the liar here. You still are the liar here. She said Gay New Testament, this was intended to be sarcastic humor on her part. The optics are bad, but youre trying make a mile out of an inch here.
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Rev “D”
Oh so because you believe it “true,” must be, though it is clarified as something very different. Yet when one keeps reiterating same incorrect rhetoric after proven it to be incorrect makes one a ….liar. See how easy that is. May your god accept your lying ways.
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Russel A. Kester
"D", what are you talking about? I quoted from the Advocate (a gay publication) and from the NY Post. They said those things.
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Robert James Ruhnke
You’re taking what was said in article out of context to suit your argument, Kester. How sad. She said it as a joke and had to delete it because right wing nuts were harassing her and sending her SA and death threats.
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Russel A. Kester
No, that was her trying to walk back her statement..
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Robert James Ruhnke
No Kester, she had to delete it because of the insane heat she got for being part of the ceremony. Death and SA threats will do that. What she said was sarcastic and trying to make a joke out of it. The rest of you are interpreting this so horribly to feel justified in your closed minded bigotry.
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Lady Mutt Cat
Good grief. You can’t be that ignorant.
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Robert James Ruhnke
He is willfully ignorant. He will never change.
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Man of God
Yes! the pagen believers do and did mock our faith. Our Lord has prepared us for this. So, remember we are believers! Do not fall into the evil ones tricks. We know Jesus is placed onto the judgement throne. Only Jesus earned that right by living a perfect life as defined by his Father and our God. We are to live a life as best we can following Jesus's example. Our Lord and Savior commands believers to do so. God has never asked us to judge others or to fight and kill in his name. Jesus never killed anyone. He promised to cut the evil ones down by swinging a double sided sword to the left and to the righ. Be patient, live in faith and do not worry. Do not become like the evil ones....
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James R. Harmon
Let me introduce you to The Crusades. Fought in the name of God and Christ from Central France to the Holy Land during the Middle Ages.
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Russel A. Kester
James, as per your own words, it was fought in the name of .... That doesn't mean it was ordered by God or Christ. That said, I am very glad those battles were fought or today we would live in a very different world if WE even existed at all. People are so quick to condemn history when none of us were there. We didn't experience the terror Islam was causing along Europe's coastlines as they captured Europeans and sold them into slavery in the Middle East and elsewhere. Or the bloody battles it fought to subjugate the Middle East to it's rule. How the Ottoman empire ruled a vast area and took over the lands of Israel, Samaria, and Judea. We sit back comfortably in privileged luxury and judge them and the Christian Church of the time. That's sad.
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Robert James Ruhnke
The only sad thing is the fact you get giddy when you try to moralize history with a one sided story. Muslims and Christians are of the same religious grouping. Muslims revere Christ as a prophet not a messiah, y’all worship the same concept of god. They were mirroring the Christian conquest of Europe as they slaughtered nonbelievers, imagine the terror the pagans felt as their lives were upended or ended just because they didn’t agree with Christians. You ignore history that doesn’t fit your cult narrative. The Olympics is just this season’s flavor of satanic panic you guys are hissing about, it’s all just performative outrage. What you guys obsess over is weird.
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Russel A. Kester
The subject James H. brought up was about the crusades, the middle ages, and the Holy Land. Do try to follow the topics.
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Robert James Ruhnke
I did, but you were so badly off about the crusades I had to remind you your one sided cherry picked pro Christian bis perspective of history was wrong. You’re missing the bloody part of the Middle Ages when women were being murdered for being witches when they were just healers, hermits, and in some cases, crazy people living in the woods to get away from the insanity of the church. Plus you’re forgetting all the religious tyranny Christians pushed on each other when they were done murdering or subjugating people. So again. You’re a liar or you’re wrong.
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Russel A. Kester
And, you, Robert ignore that Pagans vandalized, pillaged, raped, killed, and enslaved villagers. As well as performed human sacrifices. Pagan hands are not clean. I know perfectly well the Middle Ages were tough for everyone and no religion was free of having committed atrocious acts. I'm also aware that given the times and circumstances it is best that we seek to learn from the past instead of trying to use it as a weapon against people today. Good God, such a narrow view and understanding of history.
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Robert James Ruhnke
I never said pagans were innocent Kester. Yet they also didn’t go around promising peace and love with one breath, and with another ushering in death and dismemberment when one didn’t capitulate with conversion. Only the abrahamics found other gods evil and in need of destruction. Yet many pagan cultures saw parallels in each others gods. It didn’t stop war always, true.
Narrow? You only preach from a one sided right wing Christian perspective missing out on a majority of history.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
where do you get such nonsense? I bet you read the goatherder's guide to the galaxy and think it's true?
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Man of God
Study the Book Of Revelation. Your comments are nonsense. I see you know this goatherder's guide to the galaxy, now that IS nonsense.
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Lady Mutt Cat
😂😂😂😂😂 I’ll take the great goddess Bastet over your deity any day of the week.
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Man of God
Genesis 1:29 Then God said," Let us make man in our image in our likeness, and let them rule.... over all the earth..." Gensis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him male and female he created them. At this point of God's narration to Moses no woman had been created. We see that these beings 'God', are complete as one total being. Genesis 2:19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. But for Adam no suitable helper was found. Genesis 2:21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh. Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken our of the man and he brought her to the man. At this point of God's narration we learn that the woman (whom Adam had not yet named), was unique, first she was not made from the ground but from the rib of man. Second, she was given two genes as man has two being male and female, she had two being female and female, one from the man and the second specially created for her by God. Genesis 2:23 The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called woman, for she was taken out of man." At this point I will add that only a man can create inside a woman another man or woman. The man has the seed to sow inside a woman, while the woman has the egg to grow and nourish another human. I wrote this for Lady Mutt Cat, so she could learn that in the world of our Creator, there are no Goddess or women. We are created, but we truly have no power, or understanding of 'WHAT' created us. I will add this scripture, Lev 18:22 "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." also read Lev 20:10; Lev 20:13.
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Lady Mutt Cat
😂😂😂😂😂 I’ll take the great goddess Bastet over your deity any day of the week.
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James R. Harmon
Let me introduce you to The Crusades. Fought in the name of God and Christ from Central France to the Holy Land during the Middle Ages.
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Man of God
You are missing history. Isreal was destroyed by Europeans a thousand years before, by the Romans(Europeans). God, the Father had turned his back on his people after they rejected his Son, and give him (an innocent man) up to be nailed to the Cross. Isreal has only been able to live in the Promise Land when God has Blessed them. Isreal had lost God's Blessing twice before and was taken over by invaders. This time the Temple was destroyed by Romans (Europeans). Isreal suffered for thousands years in Europe not able to come back to the Promise Land, until after World War II. It was the Christians the believers in Jesus, whom they rejected, that allow the Jews to come back home. The Jews suffer still because the leadership still deny who Jesus is - The Son of God, our Lord God. But Jesus Loves them and supports them as I write this, through his Believers.
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Rev “D”
So when are you all going to follow your god’s number one task?? “To love one another as I have loved you.”
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James Bennett
Your vanilla account of Satan's attack on Christ at the Olympic opening ceremony was despicable. It reminded me of the German Protestant Church's response to Hitler in the 1930s - do nothing! The gay movement has moved from inclusion to outright Satanism. Recognize it. Realize the movement wants to taint everything precious to Scripture. Youthful innocence: sex, marriage, self-worth; human morality; and privacy of the womb; are just a few of the social targets of the gay community. Please, recognize Satan as Satan and fight this enemy wherever it raises its evil ugly head.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
why is it you all have to attack SATAN and SATANISM? I wholeheartedly encourage you to google the link to The Satanic Temple. it literally has NOTHING to do with satanism and EVERYTHING to do with punching back at the kkkristofascist agenda that is trying to destroy this country and turn it into a sharia-esq theocracy.
you seem to think that SATAN is the problem yet fail to see clearly at and into your own reflection. To better explain it let me paraphrase you:
" Youthful innocence: sex, marriage, self-worth; human morality; and privacy of the womb; are just a few of the social targets of the kkkristofascist community. Please, recognize them and fight this enemy wherever it raises its evil ugly head."
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Matthew L. Feinberg
Note the entity on the left in black shorts. Their (correct pronoun?) scrotum appears to be hanging from their shorts. That should clarify any doubt about is there any perversion.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
A) you never had one slip out of your daisy duke jorts by accident? B) interesting that that's where YOUR eye went. Something you'd like to share with the class?
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Russel A. Kester
JJ, that supposed accident was posted online so we all know about it. No one's eyes had to go anywhere. Sad.
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Robert James Ruhnke
1) the original Olympics were done in the nude. 2) France has some interesting nudity laws on their books, one can be nude in naturist areas, yet public displays of sexual lewdness are penalized. France recognizes that nudity isn’t inherently sexual, so it wouldn’t surprise if a testicle or two popped out of a toga. Only perverted right wing Christians see nudity as inherently sexual. I’m honestly not surprised a person’s crotch is the first thing Kester notices on another person when he first looks at them. 😉
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Kevin A Phillips
I'm not sure which is more amusing; All the narrow-minded comments based off of beLIEfs vs actual understanding or the Post itself promoting such division.
To BE "Happy" takes as much effort as it does to BE "offended", which one you choose will reveal your mental maturity.
It was Fanz Kafka who said, “By believing passionately in something that still does not exist, we create it. The nonexistent is whatever we have not sufficiently desired.” Fun FACt: 78% of the word unDESIRED is 100% DESIRED. So, when we put our attention on the unDESIRED we are actually telling the Universe/Higher Power, it is DESIRED.
Lest we acknowledge “God changes his appearance every second. Blessed is the man who can recognize him in all his disguises.”
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Dr Rohn
You've given a great example of "doublespeak"
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Maryann Palms
We cannot always control our thoughts, it is a thought world, a thought race. We still tend to fall to the dictatorship of our own minds, eyes and our ears are always flooded with commercial ideas of the world's view. This scene reflects the imbalance of the nature of our Culture. Our human nature is to be a Staff or a King of our own dominion of mind. We all must have a watchman at the gates our thinking, Paris display in it opening events caused our reasoning minds to relinquish the power of how we choose to thinking giving rise to consciousness, giving rise to energy to be projected to this specific outcome, daunting as it maybe. We have to remember our Divine pattern of our life is in the superconsciousness, "Except that the Lord has built the house, they labor in vain that build it (Psalms 127:1) To glorify God is to raise your Christ consciousness. Thoughts are not created they are received based upon what frequency your mind is set. Thoughts, topics and subject are a vibrational frequency. Aim to become a multidimensional creature and not to be bound to just one reality. Maybe Paris display was selfishly motivated by selfish interest. Nevertheless, focus from your point of view and observe the power of your focus. This Global vein revived the interest that is important to us. So, relax you are aligned with what you know to be. Be encouraged, keep up with what you are vibrating to you have the word of source at your back. Stand as witness don't stand in step, do not disrupt your intention. Let every thought and every act express your unwavering faith. "Father, remind us of the sacredness of the secrecy in our spiritual discipline. Guide us to understand the profound value of the sacred calling."
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Julie Lydia Rogers
In the words of the famous French Queen Marie Antoinette “ let them eat cake”. Let the French have their party. Let them celebrate their culture and history. Why do the Americans have to take offense with everything. My God its exhausting. Simmer down people. God has bigger problems to solve, like war, world hunger, homelessness, the sick and dying, poverty. That’s where your so called Satan is. He is hate in the hearts of men. And I see a lot of hate. As clergy I implore you to seek what is important. And a ceremony celebrating diversity and culture is not important. Jesus was a messenger of peace, and the Olympics are a symbol of solidarity and peace. A coming together of nations for the sake of sport. So relax and enjoy the show, it only happens every four years. Be about your business of spreading love as Christ commanded it. I bid you all peace.
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David McHaley
It wasn't depicting The Last Supper. It's based on a painting called Supper or something of the Gods. And even if they were mocking Christianity, it has nothing to do with my salvation. As a devout Christian Minister, I will say that I am deeply disturbed at that vile behavior thrown at me 24 hours a day. The mockery of God's creation of them. Transgender, Gay, Non-Binary, (whatever the hell that is), sex, all aimed at not just us, but more so at our young children. In grade school, children don't think about those things. No they're pounded with sex Ed. Be what you want to be, I do not judge you, and I love you. But I don't flaunt my heterolsexuality in you face for you validate.my choice. I don't demand to be called brave because I put my sexuality out in the forefront. Do what you want, but leave me out of your delusional life.
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Jim Augustus Ramsey
The whole world is on a greased poll sliding straight down to hell. I remember my parents and my great grandparents saying that God will let loose Jesus anytime because of what they saw in this world and it's just like Sodom and Gamora (I think that's right) the plain open mockery of Gods word and the gays and lesbians being forced into or childrens and our faces. Gods about to turn Jesus loose and I pray that we are ready.
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Barry Lee Lopatic
I did watch the ceremony. Two of the actors admitted it was a parody of Christian/Greek mythology themes. I know the historical Greek mythology that heavily influenced the show, so I don't need anyone to explain that or the crossover of ceremonies, characters and rituals that have been borrowed and recycled into Christianity. The bull, pale horse, table of feasters with the crowned centerpiece, and all the other makings of biblical references can't be argued against.
What I have is a complaint about is the appropriateness of this show at the Olympics, of all places. I think it was in bad taste. Having guys with nutsacks hanging out, drag queens frolicking around with the child next to them and all the other stuff just didn't seem like the place or time to do it. That's my 2cents
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Theresa C. Marquess
Are they so insecure in their own heart and thoughts that they have to mock the faith of another?
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Glen Joseph Kohler
The carnal and sensual indulgence portrayed in the opening ceremony were exactly opposite to the spirit of the Olympic Games.
Openly and deliberately provocative, they perverted the images of The Last Supper so vividly that Christians, and people of all faiths, had ample cause for a deep sense of unease.
Legalistic disclaimers about Dionysus do not ring true. Far more people around the world are familiar with the Last Supper than with the cult of Dionysus—which as said above, has nothing to do with the intensive preparation and supreme efforts in the Games.
In the present era societal norms are being distorted in a host of ways. This event is a clarion call to the ministry.
Grow up people, Christianity is NOT the only "religion" in the world. Everyone needds to be tolorant of the traditions and beliefs of other people and other countries.
When some only look at everything through a religious filter, everything is judged with that filter. Huge world problem regardless of the specific religion. When all one has is a hammer, everything looks looks a nail.
Yes but not at the Olympics where innocent children are watching. If you want to be gay be gay if you want to dress like a woman dress like a woman….just stay the hell away from children.
Poor Maria, as proven many times over snd over your christian pastors, priests, and youth ministers need to stay the hell away from children. Or do you not see how many of those “church leaders” getting caught and convicted for sex based crimes against children?
Maria, just exactly why should anyone who is not cisgender and straight stay away from children? Just exactly what are you afraid of?
Their parents can turn off the tv. Absurd to regulate what the rest of us watch because parents might not be responsible.
America is a very tolerant country. Americans are some of the most generous people in the world and Christians fall into that category. Maria is right in her opinion. Tolerance is good but being too tolerant can make you vulnerable. The Olympic opening ceremony was an opportunistic attempt to ridicule Christian held beliefs and symbols pure and simple. That would never be tolerated by Muslims. And now so many on this thread are going after Maria and making fun of religion using what they are inferring as her lack of tolerance. That word or concept has been used like a sword to go after anyone that objects to the latest and most popular debauchery by shaming them or canceling them using public platforms. It’s time that people start calling a duck a duck and recapture our integrity, dignity and humanity. We all saw it. Why should we be shamed into pretending wee didn’t or that it happen? I’m the spirit of tolerance….leave Maria alone. You guys are the ones with issues. The rest of us are waking up and we don’t have to like what we see. Be careful what you wish for.
You’re a fraudulent clown of the same stripe as your namesake, Barnum. What you saw and what you believe you saw are two different things. It was a celebration of Greek culture from which the Olympics was based. The idea which the ceremony was a dig at Christianity is a phantasm tall invented to play victim so you can tear others down. A 2000 year old Christian tradition. Thanks to the rise of the internet, the truth of your religion has been seen and the reason so many are fleeing the pulpits. You are not spirit of tolerance, but it’s antithesis, Barnum. We’ve weathered bloody Christian uprisings and riots, we will do so again, 🤡.
Robert, you know about the post from the drag queen in the center who wrote that it was about the last supper and now a spokesperson for the Olympics has confirmed that the creator of the performance used the last supper to inspire that part of the ceremony. And yet you continue to try to tell others not to believe their lyin' eyes. Well, their eyes are not the one who's lying.
That was not a drag Queen, she’s a lesbian woman, she was the DJ for the event. Are you so shallow and petty you can’t see that, are you so shallow that because she’s heavy set you’re assuming she’s a man? Gods help you, Kester. You are lying. You are just repeating yourself and not even bothering to provide actual proof to back your claim. I’ve already seen the actual proof. I’ve provided 4 sources. I’ve seen the interview with the creator, he did not use Davinci’s Gay Lovers face as inspiration for the ceremony. You feigned to provide proof when I called you out before. Like I said. You are wrong or you’re a liar 🤥.
Well said PT!