A transgender pastor is suing her former employer, alleging she was discriminated against due to her gender identity.
After 6 years of service as head pastor at Lorne Park Baptist Church in Ontario, Rev. Junia Joplin came out to her congregation last year during a live-streamed sermon. The LGBT Christian community stood with her, and praised the move as both courageous and bold.
But the reception within her own congregation, and from church leadership, likely didn’t go as Rev. Joplin hoped. She was removed from her position not long after coming out.
A Personal Sermon
“Friends, with divine joy… I want you to hear me when I tell you that I’m not just supposed to be a pastor,” Joplin said in her live stream. “I’m supposed to be a woman.”
“I’m a transgender woman, and my pronouns are she and her.”
Rev. Joplin’s heartfelt sermon proved hugely popular for many gay or transgender Christians, as well as many of her parishioners, who applauded Joplin for her bravery. The sermon has been viewed tens of thousands of times on YouTube.
That enthusiasm didn't extend to Joplin’s continued employment, however. Almost immediately, questions swirled around whether she'd be allowed to remain as pastor.
"We do not know what the future will look like but we want to learn more from June regarding her story. We want to work towards Christian unity with June and her family, as we discern together God's will for our congregation," they wrote in a statement.
What was God’s will, exactly? That would apparently be for Joplin to be collecting unemployment. Joplin’s congregation held a vote on whether she should remain as the church’s head pastor, and by a narrow 58-53 vote, her own congregation voted against her.
A statement from the chair of the church's executive council stated simply:
"In the end, the congregation voted to terminate her employment as lead pastor of the church, with the majority of the votes to terminate made for theological reasons. We offered her what we think was a fair severance."
The Courts Will Decide
The severance, apparently, isn’t gonna cut it for Joplin, who is suing the church. She is seeking $200,000 in damages, alleging that she is the victim of discrimination based on her gender identity.
Her claim argues that "LPBC did not perform a close and careful examination of the nature and essential duties of lead pastor or demonstrate an honest, good faith, and sincere belief that Rev. Joplin lacked a qualification that was reasonably necessary in relation to those duties."
She may just have a case. The Ontario Human Rights Code states that it’s illegal to discriminate on the basis of gender identity or expression. Critics of the termination say it’s clear cut that she was fired for coming out. She served the church as head pastor for six years, and was removed shortly after coming out. Is she somehow less qualified to preach now that she’s out?
What do you think? Does Joplin have a case? Should a church be able to fire someone for coming out as transgender?
109 comments
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Gerardo Salazar
How exactly are the members of the congregation that voted her termination different from the fanatical and highly ignorant Taliban hordes from Afghanistan? A pastor is a pastor due to study, faith and perseverance and not for of what hang between his legs but apparently for some people the trascendental vanishes and only anatomy remains. I do not belong to Rev. Junia ´s creed but if I were I would be extremely proud of attending any service with her. God Almighty above us must have great fun by these little people’s stupid prejudices.
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Rev Mark D
How are they different? Well, they didn't kill anyone.
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flugo
'girlie salad bar': There's NO such a thing as a 'transgender'! Drop your pants, take a good look, and shut up! You may feel like, act like, associate with, and sympathize with transgenders, but you ARE not one. What delusion!
You 'God above' finds NO fun is such sordid, depraved, obtuse lifestyle! And, from the pulpit, it's an abomination!
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@flugo Before telling people to shut up! do a bit of research? What do you call a person who has a penis, balls, breasts and overlies? This is God's creation and 1 out of every 200 of God's chidden are born transgender. Instead of coming off as a Christian bully with no tolerance, why not learn about God's children who are born either transgender, multigender or no gender?
Here's talk from a women who was born with balls. https://www.ted.com/talks/emily_quinn_what_i_ve_learned_from_having_balls
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
My God told me that he thinks you and you're god are hilarious, flugo!
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Patricia Ann Wileman
You’re not correct it’s not just your studies that make you a minister or a pastor. You have conditions required of each denomination. Just because I have went to school did not get me licensed as a minister. However this person lied that got them the license. So they are not deserving of a license when a minister lied. That’s against God‘s law. I don’t have time to write the scripture so he lied on his application. Any other job and you lied on the application you could be terminated as well as here.
I don’t think he would’ve been hired as transgender in the first place and that is why he/she didn’t tell the truth on the application getting his original license through the Baptist. Or being truthful when he took the job as the pastor he lied again. So are you high and mighty people that think just because you studied some books pass the test does not make you a minister/pastor.
Please note the ones who get a license through this organization has not requirement just pay your money and move on. However denominations have rules for a reason. Rather you like them or not. You have a choice to not go there or get a license through them.
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Patricia Ann Wileman
Has nothing to do with your studies. Not counting getting a license on this sight. Every one else has to be approved and there is a lot of Pastors who never went to a place for a degree from a seminary or so on. They might have studied with their church and was approved. So just because you have a degree does not make you a pastor you have to be approved. You have to sign there rules or you also can lose your license.
I know this because I was license/ordained before my college schooling. Please note at this particular time I am going for my bachelors degree. The Christian college I’m going to does not license they want you to go back through your church or denomination to do it. You have to be approved to even go to the school by your church. They are very strict.
So note your are incorrect
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but in EVERY pastors contract it says clearly that you must abide by the teachings of the church and you must stay in good stead and not bring down disrepute on the church. He clearly did not do this. And sorry just because you cut off your private part does not change your sex you were born into. Deal with it
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Thomas Allyn Wilson
Good for her! I was abused in every church I was part of because I refused to demonize, stigmatize, and generally abuse people like this pastor and others. This is so the opposite of the one they claim to believe and follow that I hope she wins the suit.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
That got my vote, Thomas.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Emily Quinn is a women God created who has balls who asks is she a women or a man?
https://www.ted.com/talks/emily_quinn_the_way_we_think_about_biological_sex_is_wrong/reading-list?referrer=playlist-itunes_podcasts_society_culture&language=en
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
It definitely takes balls (figuratively speaking) to do what she is doing, Nicholas.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Sorry Nicholas, my above comment should have been addressed to Douglas.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Douglas, did you know that the word women means more than one woman?
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Rev. Dr. James Jacob Showers Jr
What a wonderful and profound statement of faith. May I recommend that this beloved Pastor, contact the Catherdral of Hope in Dallas, Texas or the Church of Christ in Florida. May the Almighty Creator, guide and protect this beloved. Form a hedge of protection around this beloved. Thank you for sharing your incorruptible faith with the world. Jamie Rev. Dr. James Jacob Showers Jr.
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John Anderson
She might not want to emigrate from Canada to the US.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
It seems best to do what we intuitively feel called to do, regardless of our personal desires. It's the closest thing I can tell of what is meant by an inner calling ; being called by God. And sometimes that means going to distant lands to carry the message, such as what many of us have been called to do, on this blog.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Another good Christian denomination for LGBTQ people (and ministers) is called MCCR.
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flugo
'sea bee': 'Christian' denomination and 'LGBTQ people' are an antithesis. This amoral repugnant group's lifestyle is NOT Christian. Religious, maybe, but not Christian. You'd do well to be more definitive in you generalized bather!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
flugo, you forgot to put the letter l in blather.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
You're right, flugo. I'm not a general bather, or even a usual bather. However, I live alone, and stay atleast six feet away from others when I go out, so what difference does it make?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'm glad you're back, flugo! We've missed your irreverent blather. I hope they won't find out you escaped, so you won't disappear again, good buddy.
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Anisahoni
Religions have never evolved and are self serving homophobic, misogynistic, fanatical, money making, tax dodging organizations. Our world is in a climate crisis, humanitarian disasters and suffering is occurring world wide and these fools care about who she loves rather than actually doing something positive for the world? A terrible waste of air and resources. This is just plain stupid.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Unless some new “Dead Sea Scrolls” reveal that the “Father” (the Christian God) the “Son” (Jesus) and the “Holy Ghost” (who liberal Christians now call the Holy Spirit) — unless such new information lets us aware, the the entire “Trinity” is (or, used to be) heterosexual— based on what the St. James Bible now says, theFather, the Son, and the Holy Ghost were all “bi.”
None ever them ever married, none ever had sex, and none of them ever even recommended that there be an Eleventh Commandment which condemn to Hell, anyone who used sex in any other way, than to give birth to a child, nine months after each and every sex act.
In other words, if the entire Trinity was (is) “bi” — any GOP MAGA’er is a deplorable bagger bigot, and, if there is such a thing as a Christian Heaven, hopefully such GOP’ers will spend eternity being on the receiving end (pun intended).
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Lionheart
Clearly, God was transgender anyway, thats why man was made in His image....with nipples 🤪
🦁♥️
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Troy D Reece
After reading the post and watching the video I can only say that the church lost a very good Pastor and why does it matter if she is a he or a he is a she. As long as the church is getting members and making shore the service message is being gotten then let it be. And i am proud of her for speaking the truth and being true to her self. As a Open Gay Minister I stand with Rev. Junia Joplin and would be joyed to have he as a friend and showing the love of the Lord and the Holy Spirit.
If I may point out to those in the comments that say she is wrong or use of hate to the LGBTQ community. Thank of the Bible before the year 1964, there is no word in it that puts down this group of people and the Church leaders that translated the Biblical Text stated they Mistranslated the text, and even one Pastor shared a wroten Document.. I mean if its so wrong why then in Luke 17:34 "I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left" and in Romans 1, Genesis 9, Leviticus 18, Cralartians 6, Timothy 10, and the Verse that Love should excide all other commandment, so why does it support LGBTQ here but in 1 Corinthians 6, and the other 7 verses it put it down. I can say its a human error and spent this long before the truth was told, this is what her sermon was on, and she wanted to be true to the church and her self.
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flugo
'trod': '. . . . . true to the church and her self.' you say. False! Heretical! Throughout the Bible, we are to be true to God and His Word. Or, don't you read the Bible much?!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I never read the bible, flugo. I just roll it up, with something inside, and smoke it.
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Rev Dean Stoner
What does the Bible tell us. That a man shall not dress as a woman nor a woman as a man. Geniuses lays out gender as male and female. Corinthians 6:9-10 lays out that a homosexual will not see the kingdom of heaven. The Old Testament says that homosexuality is an abomination to God. What people’s feeling are, in the end doesn’t matter but Gods word.
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Jerry L. Spencer
Your feelings do matter. This why mankind will cast into the leak of 🔥. Is your feelings for GOD 🙏 or for Satan.
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flugo
Right on!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Finally, flugo found a man who turns him on.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Stoner is a cool name, Dean. I've sometimes been called that too.
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Michael Dean Pickard
I do pray for this man. I don’t agree with his position and I know this will hurt churches everywhere. Our job as Christians is to share Christ. But the Bible speaks clear of what is expected of a pastor. To sue for money tells me where his heart is. The church should give it to him and be done with it. God created us man and woman. The devil added the non binary. The devil said you can be what you want. Do what YOU want. To be a Pastor is do do what Christ wants. Take up His cross.
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Jerry L. Spencer
Our job as a Christian is allow Chirst to live in us. And we to have love one for another in our hearts. And to allow Chirst to work GOD's will in our hearts. This person Rev. Joplin is wrong in the eyes of GOD. Rev. Joplin is for self and not to do GOD's will.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'm not a ******* Christian, and this isn't a Christian blog, Jerry. So, what do you mean by "our duty as a christian"? A lot of people around here find that phrase offensive.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'm a minister, but am nothing like a . . . Christian, Jerry. And if Christ ever tried to get inside of my body there's going to be a second crucifixion! [edited for explicit content]
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Jerry L. Spencer
Rev. Joplin, was wrong. This person did not tell the truth to the church. Yes Rev. Joplin is during a work for Rev. Joplin and not GOD. Rev. Joplin is working to get paid. Rev. Joplin was a man but now a woman. This not the will of GOD 🙏,for no person to change there sex. But yet Rev. Joplin wants to preach GOD 🙏 Word. People just want to there own thing. And refuse to do GOD's will. GOD Word is free but want to be paid to bring forth GOD's Word.
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Patricia Ann Wileman
He/She did not tell the truth when hired. As a minister/pastor you should not be in the pulpit if you are a liar, outright liar. This person covered up who they were and no they should not have a right to go to court for being hired for a job that they lied on the application. You can be terminated for lying on your application with other jobs. So there is no difference here. He Lied.
d why they no longer wanted this person as there pastor. Please note as a minister I had to sign paperwork that I do not believe in certain things and I would not do certain things. Otherwise I would lose my license. I’m sure that this person had some kind of rules upfront also.
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A James Baird
In Canada, it is illegal to ask irrelevant questions of an applicant - questions such as sexual orientation & gender identity (SOGI). Therefore, she did not lie, as they couldn't have asked her.
As well, The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees freedom from discrimination, based on many issues, including SOGI.
As an aside, I notice that many detractors speak of Christianity as if it were some monolithic entity. There are so many different brands/styles/denominations, that it is (at best) amusing to read someone sharing about "THE" beliefs of Christians. While I'm not a Christian, I've always thought that a Christian was, by definition, one who followed only the teachings of Jesus, The Christ. Perhaps I'm mistaken? If so, I'll happily stand corrected.
Peace. Love. Acceptance.
A. James Baird
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Patricia Ann Wileman
You can be terminated for lying on your application with other jobs. So there is no difference here. This person flat out lied on the application. Pastors/Ministers are and should be held to a higher standard.
I’m sure the same is I had to sign paperwork to be licensed as a minister the rules. And it says on my rules if I do not abide by the rules I will no longer be a minister. So I presume the bad does have something similar. I don’t wanna hear any hatefulness because I’m not talking about transgender people. I’m talking about rules that are made upfront before you step into a position.
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Paul A Jaramillo
God doesn’t change. People do. Goodluck with the suit even if you win you will still have lost. Woe unto those who try and change Gods law.
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Lionheart
Your gods law edicts stoning people to death, and slavery, Paul. Are you ok with that, and if not, who changed your gods law?
🦁❤️
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Woe unto those who believe like you do, Paul.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I agree with you Lionheart, but no matter how long and hard our nipples are sucked, nothing will ever come out. Then again, we have the beginning of a tail bone, which also is useless, and we really could do without finger and toe nails. So, maybe we evolved from a creature with a long tail and claws, that could lactate. Maybe it could even impregnate itself. Just food for thought.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
William, I haven't heard it called the holy ghost since I was in Catholic elementary school, in the early seventies! I thought all christians since called it the Holy Spirit. Could it be that you're much older than me, and still a bit old fashioned? Although I haven't been Christian in many years, I've since done quite a bit of volunteer work, at a Catholic soup kitchen for a couple of years, and a Baptist Church for two more. And I've also been on numerous non-denominational retreats, so it seems like I would have heard it mentioned. I also sand in a Christian choir for three years since becoming Wiccan, but still heard no mention of the Holy Ghost.
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Mark Hannon
A few of the dinky churches in the U.P. of Michigan are still using old service books that still have Holy Ghost used so that's what they say. The bigger churches in towns often have updated the hymnals and liturgical books. It's weird coming across it.
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Allen Haas
The question is whether she has a case in the judicial system? No she does not. It will be dismissed quickly. US Courts have repeatedly held that they cannot interfere in the employment practices of churches with respect to clergy and for lay employees as well. This extends to race and creed as well. Differences in compensation based on race, creed or gender would require a broad class action before a court would grant standing. If she was transgender before ordination she misrepresented herself to the seminary who admitted and gave her ordination credentials. Seminaries are not employers of candidates for ordination nor do they receive federal, state funding. Attorneys trying to gain a reputation - they are allowing their client to enter litigation with zero chance of success. I assume they have advised her of that.
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Tom
Well since she's in Canada, US court rulings don't really apply here...
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Douglas R. Reynolds
Unfortunately she's going to lose because the church will claim freedom of religion and the courts will back that up.
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Justin Thomas Gregg
This is a terrible joke. Why do these people feel they have the right to destroy everything others hold sacred. Start your own church and your own religion if you don’t fit into this one. The world has fallen prey to evil workings and evil people.
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Minister Raydeen
well i know that women pastors exists, but my Bible say, must be the husband of one wife, the duties of a bishop.....Paul tells us the woman place, Its God's Order...... We got to get back to the Bible, we are getting all this warning from The Most High. .we better get it together
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Patricia Ann Wileman
First off what they’re talking about this person lied on his application. It wasn’t saying you were a man or woman. I understand it Baptist prefer men as their ministers/pastors. However most denominations do not feel that way and I’m going to show you a few scriptures.
“These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.” Acts 1:14 NKJV
So all not just a man but it shows the women also. I really do suggest you read some scripture above and below.
“For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” Galatians 3:27-28 NKJV
So it shows hear a male or female are all in Christ Jesus which means women can preach. So rather you choose not to have a female pastor that is your choice. But it says right here women can do the same as men when it comes to the gospel. I personally know there’s some awesome female ministers and pastors out there . I’m not a pastor but I am a chaplain.
However remember this person didn’t get let go because they were male or female. They were let go because they lied on their application. And every job if you lie on the application you can be terminated and that person did. And I’m also going to say the Baptist do not believe in transgender’s when they originally licensed the Baptist. I don’t know what’s going on now but the people at the church were lied to and that is why that person was terminated not because it was originally a male or a female. It was who they said they were and then they changed to they were that was a lie on the application that they hired
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Minister Raydeen
well i know that women pastors exists, but my Bible say, must be the husband of one wife, the duties of a bishop.....Paul tells us the woman place, Its God's Order...... We got to get back to the Bible, we are getting all this warning from The Most High. .we better get it together
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Lionheart
Do you believe everything you read in books Raydeen?
🦁❤️
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Minister Raydeen
well i know that women pastors exists, but my Bible say, must be the husband of one wife, the duties of a bishop.....Paul tells us the woman place, Its God's Order...... We got to get back to the Bible, we are getting all this warning from The Most High. .we better get it together
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Minister Raydeen
well i know that women pastors exists, but my Bible say, must be the husband of one wife, the duties of a bishop.....Paul tells us the woman place, Its God's Order...... We got to get back to the Bible, we are getting all this warning from The Most High. .we better get it together
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Minister Raydeen
well i know that women pastors exists, but my Bible say, must be the husband of one wife, the duties of a bishop.....Paul tells us the woman place, Its God's Order...... We got to get back to the Bible, we are getting all this warning from The Most High. .we better get it together
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Minister Raydeen
well i know that women pastors exists, but my Bible say, must be the husband of one wife, the duties of a bishop.....Paul tells us the woman place, Its God's Order...... We got to get back to the Bible, we are getting all this warning from The Most High. .we better get it together
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Anita Rogers
There are plenty of women in Baptist churches depending on the sect. How quickly we are blind on our similarities to the Taliban as we condemn them.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
The next flight to Iran has your name on it, Anita. Take it! We don't want any Taliban sympathizers in this nation!!! That was a totally un-American thing to say.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
In my above comment I should have said Afghanistan, instead of Iran.
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Keith
I don't think she should have been fired for coming out trans. She was pastor for six years, and a few weeks after she announces her gender identity, she is fired. It's clearly a case of discrimination. The law states that a person can not be discriminated against for gender identity. I think she has a credible lawsuit because she has been discriminated against based on her gender identity. She and the protection of the law will send a message to other employers that discrimination is not tolerated.
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Alexander Clarke
One makes choices everyday and with each choice comes risk and/or reward. He/she/it make a choice and is now suffering the consequences of that choice. What did he/she/it think? The Baptists are a lot of things but tolerance is not one of them.
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Anita Rogers
Amen
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Sam Eng
Moral...legal...ethical.
The answer in MHO is the challenge is a legal one. He/She is an employee of the church and assuming the church follows the guidelines of employers he/she has a case.
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Sam Eng
Moral...legal...ethical.
The answer in MHO to this challenge is a legal one. He/She is an employee of the church and assuming the church follows the guidelines of employers he/she has a case.
Moral...ethically....it depends on the churches philosophy and tolerance of this type of matter.
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Ronald Jay Stark
The matter should have been PRIVATELY discussed with the "church fathers" before being the mainstay of a sermon.
Given what the pastor is preaching and surely believes in as "gospel" I understand their concerns. Church legal counsel should have been part of the decision to fire the person.
But its worse here. If the past-pastor is rewarded the talk and news will be known. She will, likely, not work as a pastor for long. What a shame.
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Rev Ned
Their favorite hymn must go 🎼 Jesus loves me...but he can't stand you.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
My favorite hymn goes "No more tears", Rev Ned. For it's just a hand in the bush, in the bush, in the bush...
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Lucy Carrasquillo
Let's not forget what God considers abominations in the Old Testament? Erroneous lifestyles have to repent and transform to be acceptable in God's eyes at judgement time. If continued rebellion compromises God's Word for Life for individuals or the masses, then, it's each persons responsibility to transform according to God's Word before they take their last breath! Each of us will be judged at our appointed time, and our final destiny will be determined by God. So, if you agree or disagree on this topic, here on earth, it's irrelevant. God holds the keys to our final destiny based on our works and lifestyles on earth. Don't lose your righteousness on the personal flesh decisions of others. NOTE: JESUS taught the disciples and followers from the Torah in and out of the synogogues. He observed the Sabbath, etc. We're to love the sinner, but hate the sin. The O.T. prophesied the N.T. and the N.T. confirms the O.T. Jesus only added two commandments. He has never contradicted His Father's Word. In Jesus' name, Amen.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
If only a real god was quoted in the old testament Lucy, instead of that deranged sicko!
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Lucy Carrasquillo
Let's not forget what God considers abominations in the Old Testament? Erroneous lifestyles have to repent and transform to be acceptable in God's eyes at judgement time. If continued rebellion compromises God's Word for Life for individuals or the masses, then, it's each persons responsibility to transform according to God's Word before they take their last breath! Each of us will be judged at our appointed time, and our final destiny will be determined by God. So, if you agree or disagree on this topic, here on earth, it's irrelevant. God holds the keys to our final destiny based on our works and lifestyles on earth. Don't lose your righteousness on the personal flesh decisions of others. NOTE: JESUS taught the disciples and followers from the Torah in and out of the synogogues. He observed the Sabbath, etc. We're to love the sinner, but hate the sin. The O.T. prophesied the N.T. and the N.T. confirms the O.T. Jesus only added two commandments. He has never contradicted His Father's Word. In Jesus' name, Amen.
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Johnny Rivas
Hello my ministry does not pass judgement and we have to love each other cause we are creations of the lord
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
If I say I love you too, Johnny, will you send me free stuff? Nothing cheap, iether!
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Johnny Rivas
I do not judge others and we are all the lord's children and each one of us have to answer to God and so why is her church is in judgement of her
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Maybe they think God won't notice, Johnny. He's awful busy, you know. Ofcourse too, as christians, if he catches them, all they have to do is say their sorry.
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Lionheart
How do you know this to be true Johnny? Is it because you’ve read stories in a book? If so, do you always believe everything you read?
🦁❤️
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James Edward Hagopian
all I got to say on this matter it is sad that we run our churches like businesses and corporations also there are so many politics in Church's now it is not a healthy place . have we forgotten the Golden Rule love your neighbor as yourself that goes for your enemy too how can you ask for forgiveness if you do not forgive how can you ask for love if you do not love how can you ask for understanding and patience and compassion if you cannot do it for yourself . I am tired of all this conflict in the church the Bible is basic instructions before leaving the Earth it is not posed to be used as a weapon to prove your point or used as a weapon for hate if we believe in a higher power made it all in love for us why we so busy trying to destroy that in my opinion we are creation of love and when other creations are different from us why are we so busy to hate that is not the road to the heavenly father that made us out of love if we cannot show love to another human being or another creation regardless if it goes against our personal opinions we must do a lot of soul-searching and find that compassion that we was made in and we live in Paradise and we are so busy destroying it everyday with our actions is that love or hate. if a person is showing love what's so wrong with that and being honest
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Rev. K.L. Owens
Leviticus 18:22-20:13, Genesis 1:28, 1 Timothy 2:12, Colossians 3:18, Ephesians 5:22-33, Deuteronomy 22:5, Genesis 3:16, 1 Peter 3:1-22, Ephesians 5:1-33, 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, Revelation 12:9, and 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
K.L. Owens, did flugo put you up to this?
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Stacey Owens
When God made man after His image, male and female, He wasn't thinking of the identity of a man or woman. He was thinking about His identity of His anointing glory.
When you identify yourself you cancel out God's anointing of Him self. Your representing you and cause people to except who you are, not the anointing of God in Christ.
People become confused we there is no anointing.
What this does is render the mark (your faith) of the creator meaningless. People start to focus on the person instead of the glory of God.
Adam lost the anointing: (Gen. 3:17 God said because you listened to the voice of your wife (flesh) and has ate of the tree, which I commanded you saying not to eat).
Eve's identity came into play, and Adam listen to: (Bone of his Bone And flesh of his flesh).
Jesus said, John 10:27 my sheep will hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
The anointing.
So whether male or female, to Christ we're sheep. Led by the anointing of the Holy Spirit.
Our identity in the eye sight of God is our faith in Him through Christ Jesus. Not being a title of a transgender, male, or female. But by the anointing were children of God.
Unfortunately, the pastor has denied what God formed in him and according to the flesh he came out as a woman. It was about his identity.
The question is, on the last day will he hear the voice of the trump sound or will he be trying to fill his lamp? That's the question.
You see, the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and they that hear shall live.
In Christ our identity is dead. We are suppose to live unto God through the life of Jesus Christ.
So whether LGBT, binary, male, or male we're dead in Christ. The mark of who you are has no validity. But the mark of God Him self, the anointing
We need to have the anointing of God not our identity.
So the good that we do don't become evil spoke of.
Because the life we live in the flesh we live by the faith of the Son of God who loved us and gave his life for us.
Christ is the life: (We are Christs)
To God be the glory!
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Your insular rhetoric continues to out you as an enemy of society and humanity, and a servant of all that is evil. You should really consider moving to a land with sharia law as it is far more your kind of thinking in such places.
To insult, denigrate, or harass someone over their sexual or gender preferences is a hate crime, all hate crimes allow one to invoke stand their ground laws in defense. As such this pastor would be fully within their rights to invoke lethal force against any of these congregants who say one word of such out loud in their presence.
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Stacey Owens
llmenheru Terikson,
People can chose to do what ever he wants. Just like you, spewing your rhetoric.
If you could understand the holy spirit and would be anointed by the holy spirit. Only unto to the God of glory do we live and speak spiritual things. The problem some people have is that they live with in them selves and they want others to be conformed to the ways of canal thinking in this world.
To help you understand self. Self is full of fear of losing our identity in this world. No matter what the identity is mother, father, husband, wife, family, position, status.
We fear, this is natural.
A person is represented as a tree, so to speak. The kind of fruit he/she produces is like nutriment for the sole. If you you receive from some one and it doesn't taste right or it taste bitter. It'll effect you in life because you change the way you think, or will cause a person to change who they are naturally, hypothetically speaking. They will find that the fruit taste funny and and may not accept it.
The point is, people effect people. in good ways and in bad. Its up to a person to choose.
You need to understand, the pastor suppose to be a minister a vessel called of God and chosen.
Its Gods will manifesting in earth as it is in heaven. His fruit (will) you can't find on earth.
The pastor is suppose to have the mind of Christ. They are only identified as Christ (Shepherds), because the body in this world is suppose to be dead unto God but alive unto Christ in the flesh. But this pastor openly denied him. This is called, falling short of the glory of God. The pastor cancels out being born again. The pastor revealed as born again as a woman not in the newness of Life in Christ.
This was what I was pointing out.
As a person, I well accept this pastor as a person in this world. I wouldn't judge the pastor as a person male or female, but I will judge according to the spirit.
There is a difference.
As a fruitful tree, the fruit the pastor bares is unfruitful. Its going to be tainted. Yet in this word the pastor can be a pastor. However, the pastor is a wolf in sheep clothing. The pastor doesn't own the sheep. The pastor only cares about the identity of what she is, this is not in the spirit of God in Christ in the pastor.
You truly misunderstood my comment in your hostile attitude. I was only speaking in the spirit of Christ, on spiritual things. The things in this world is not spiritual but carnal, sold under the laws (good) of death (evil).
Grace and peace be unto you llmenheru Terikson.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Stacey, you ought to get together with Nimblerod. He's Christ's evil twin brother, so he seems to think. It seems like there's a very good that y'all could be soulmates.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
So, in Genesis Stacey, do you think God was talking about Adam (Ant)eating Eve (the fruit), and if so, I wonder if he had flavored oils. I know they didn't have soap in those days, so to make it taste like fruit they must have used something.
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Stacey Owens
Carl B. Elfstrom,
You think this is all about sex (the fruit)? People misunderstand that in the Book of Genesis it was all about God creating the image of Himself.
Your just lost in you (unbelief) unable to see the Glory of Him.
What a mystery (delusion).
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
The god of your bible is the one who's lost, Stacey.
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Mark Hannon
This happened in a Fundamentalist Baptist church in this county. It really shook things up around here. Most in the area had probably not even heard of transgender identity. Most LGBTQ people move away when possible. It's highly strange for someone like me to move here, let alone for any job.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
If you'd say where you're talking about Mark maybe thousands (or more) members of the LGBTQ will move there, and run off all those fundamentalists, and other prejudiced people.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Has anyone seen Nimblerod? Do y'all think we may have already made him feel unappreciated. If this doesn't get him to reply, we probably won't hear from his holier than thou self again. Good job, my fellow ministers!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I bet Nimblerod eloped with his indentured servant, John Norris Campbell.
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Patricia Hill
The LGBT people are in danger of the fire 🔥 of hell staying on the road their on. The book of Roman's is very clear about people trading natural relationships with unnatural relationships and God says he'll let sin run its course. These people are being lead by the flesh Not the Holy Spirit. Unfortunately these people cannot please God. They are actively hostile to God by the life they live. Roman's 8:5-8 It saddens my heart to see so many young people going that way into adulthood. God created each of us with the sex He wanted us to have for the plan He has for each of our lives. I pray 🙏 for all people who are confused about their sexuality that God himself will make things clear for you and you receive Jesus as your Lord and savior, that His peace may rest upon you. In Jesus Name Amen. 😊
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Not another one!!! Here we go again. I've hàd enough of all this BS. I'm going to have to take a break. Please, somebody set this lost Christian straight! I'm out of here!
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Brother David
There is little truth in Thom's statement or yours. It is filled with misinformation, hate, and bigotry.
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Elias Vazquez
This is ridiculous. You can't expect people to change their religion just because you don't like the rules of the religion or the religion conflicts with your own identity. Invent your own religion instead of trying to change other people's religion. Its like a Muslim teacher turned Christian now suing a Mosque because the Mosque doesn't want someone teaching a different religion at the pulpit. The Mosque has every right to fire someone for trying to teach against established doctrine.
This person joined a church that expressly follows a teaching that prohibits men from dressing as women or women as men and that does not support homosexuality as a positive aspect nor recognizes transgender identity. They were dismissed from their position because the church will not allow someone who goes against a black letter rule of the religion to be a leader in the church. Now they are suing because the church for that reason.
Its like suing a trans woman for being trans because the HOA doesn't like them. Its nonsense to try to force people to give up their beliefs and identities just to satisfy your personal emotions.
This to me sounds like the person suing is expecting that the church will change its own religion and its own identity in order to satisfy their own emotional situation and gender identity. In other words the trans pastor wants the church to change a fundamental part of its own identity to satisfy trans pastor's identity. That sounds extremely one sided.
I believe in tolerating other people but I WILL NOT force other people to change their religious identities to satisfy other's emotional issues. This is just suing people for having the wrong religious beliefs. That is religious persecution. That is not tolerance, that is acceptance and I don't accept that you are right just because you feel bad if I don't. I tolerate and live and let live but I don't and won't say you are correct unless I believe it.
I refuse to change my identity unless you can show me objective evidence that I am wrong and you are right. If you want a religion that accepts you for who you are then invent your own religion or start your own denomination and don't try to sue other people whose denominations expressly teach against this.
From a legal perspective, the pastor signed a contract that said that they were required to teach the doctrine of the church of the church. When the pastor comes out as trans they are announcing that they are no longer willing or able to perform the key responsibility of the position of a pastor by teaching the church doctrine. In other words, they can't or won't do a huge part of the job they were hired and paid to do. Any employer would have the legal right to fire an employee who just told them they were no longer going to do the job resulting in a breach of contract.
The church hired and contracted with one individual, a male, and ended up with another individual, a wannabe female. The names were changed from the original individual so, contract ends. This should not be an argument, the church is a business so business rules must apply.
As for the congregation, if the 53 people want to have a confused pastor, then start a new church and enjoy. As for the others, they can keep their church going and hire a new pastor, lots of them out there.
But, this is Canada so I am not sure how they look at this but, an agreement is an agreement.
I am sure I will get hate comments from the ABC crowd; but blow who you want to blow and keep it to yourself. But, if you must scream it from the mountain tops then be prepared for the consequences.
Thom - That is beyond a doubt the most hateful, bigoted, trash-mouth garbage! Comments like yours should be banned from a site for religious people of ALL faiths. Christ taught compassion, not bigotry.
If only this was such a site David, but it's not, nor is it meant to be.
This site is for secular people too David. Not everyone believes in a god, or a savior.
❤️🦁
This person joined a church that expressly follows a teaching that prohibits men from dressing as women or women as men and that does not support homosexuality as a positive aspect nor recognizes transgender identity. They were dismissed from their position because the church will not allow someone who goes against a black letter rule of the religion to be a leader in the church. Now they are suing because the church for that reason.
This to me sounds like the person suing is expecting that the church will change its own religion and its own identity in order to satisfy their own emotional situation and gender identity. In other words the trans pastor wants the church to change a fundamental part of its own identity to satisfy trans pastor's identity. That sounds extremely one sided.
I believe in tolerating other people but I WILL NOT force other people to change their religious identities to satisfy other's emotional issues. This is just suing people for having the wrong religious beliefs. That is religious persecution. That is not tolerance, that is acceptance and I don't accept that you are right just because you feel bad if I don't. I tolerate and live and let live but I don't and won't say you are correct unless I believe it.
I refuse to change my identity unless you can show me objective evidence that I am wrong and you are right. If you want a religion that accepts you for who you are then invent your own religion or start your own denomination and don't try to sue other people whose denominations expressly teach against this.
Thom - If this church only became aware that this pastor was trans because she came out, I seriously doubt that the she contracted to serve with them before she began her transition.
She was hired as a woman. It was only AFTER she said that she used to be a man that they terminated her employment. Therefore, your argument, Thorn, holds about as much water as a sieve. And, gender identity IS protected under Ontario Human Rights Regulations, so this constitutes an unlawful dismissal.
It seems to me that her employment may have been terminated, not because of her identity, or coming out, but because of her original deceit.
It is not deceit to finally understand your true self and reveal it.
But who's to say she didn't already know who and what she was before her employment started, Anita?
There is much truth in Thom's statement, like it or not. Yes, the truth sometimes hurts.
It's hard to argue with that logic .
There was nothing that changed in the role of serving as pastor. Clear cut discrimination.