Where’s the line between protesting and harassment? That’s the needle a Washington state judge had to thread when deciding whether to allow a church group to continue protesting outside a Planned Parenthood in Spokane, Washington.
Judge Timothy B. Fennessy issued a permanent injunction against the Church at Planned Parenthood (TCAPP), prohibiting them from demonstrating outside Planned Parenthood locations. He says that their protest methods were simply too disruptive, interfering with the day-to-day operations of the organization in too significant a way.
The founder of TCAPP disagrees, arguing that it’s a wildly unconstitutional ruling courtesy of a “leftist’ judge.
The controversy represents the latest chapter in a long series of clashes between religious freedom and reproductive rights.
The Church Doth Protest Too Much?
Here's what happened:
Some 200 protesters were routinely gathering outside of the doors of Planned Parenthood during business hours, shouting at patients and brandishing signs with messages such as "abortion is murder."
Planned Parenthood got fed up and filed an injunction last year, which demanded protesters stay at least 35 feet away from the entrance and said that protests can only begin at 7 PM, one hour after Planned Parenthood stops accepting new patients for the day.
TCAPP found a loophole, however. They insisted they have a right to protest on a small strip of city-owned property within the 35-foot buffer zone. And while church leaders kept their distance, they sent members (who were not named specifically in the lawsuit) back within the buffer zone, because police were hesitant to enforce the ruling against anyone not specifically named in the lawsuit.
Judge Fennessey found that the protests went over the line and were disrupting planned procedures and patient care.
The judge then issued a permanent order, stating that “reasonable minds can only reach one conclusion, that Covenant Church intends to interfere with access to or safe and effective delivery of health care services.”
On God's Side?
Ask the leaders of Covenant Church (who founded TCAPP), however, and they’ll tell you that their demonstrations are legal, morally right, and that the injunctions will only encourage them further.
“I think the ruling is unconstitutional,” said their founder, Ken Peters. “We think we are under the laws of god and the Constitution, which are higher than this leftist judge.”
They say all the pushback against what they perceive as their constitutional right to protest will only embolden them to grow stronger.
Peters explains that “Christians, patriots, constitutionalists, Trump supporters [feel] super-backed into a corner and ticked off... It’s only going to stir us up more, and it’s only going to make us more aggressive and make us grow our movement.”
Fighting For Rights
Critics say the protesters overstepped the line of exercising free speech by using intimidation tactics that were violating and harmful to women seeking services.
However, members of TCAPP view the disruptions as not only necessary, but “a bit of civil disobedience” endorsed by God Himself.
It's worth noting that abortion has been a hot topic of national debate this year, especially following the passage of a recent Texas law that is effectively the strictest anti-abortion legislation in the country. That law sparked waves of pro-choice protests and demonstrations, as well as questions about potential legal challenges.
What do you think? When free speech rights clash with a medical organization’s ability to provide patient care, which should come out on top?
102 comments
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Gwendolyn Lord
A woman's body belongs to her. Her sexual health and reproductive health is private, personal to her. Nobody's business.
I used to go to an excellent women's clinic. The protesters outside were ridiculous, and their nonsense created enough of a risk, that the clinic closed. A valuable resource for Inner City women was lost. Already underserved, now the women and girls have lost the one clinic that helped every woman. So....services lost were ob/gyn based, but many other issues were left unaddressed. They used to do testing for HIV/AIDS, for example. Health monitoring for disease, prevention of diseases, birth control. Education. I brought my daughter there at 14, and she got excellent counseling. Empathetic, comprehensive, non-judgmental. The staff were exceptional, the doctors so caring. All gone now, because some people decided to make trouble, and creat a climate of violence and fear. Certainly not true Christians, fake smug hypocrites.
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Aqilah Jackson
When you can give birth, you can comment….
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Daniel Gray
And when you can give birth without the help of a man, then you alone can decide what to do with the fetus
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Anisahoni
Men, control YOUR sperm. Get a vasectomy or STFU.
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Daniel Gray
ladies keep your legs closed and there will be no problem
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Anisahoni
Misogynist, why are you here. Caveman. Keep your zipper closed.
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Daniel Gray
whaaaa, you seem to forget that it takes TWO to make a baby.
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Anisahoni
You are behaving like a child. Just control your sperm and if you don't approve of abortions, don't have one troll.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but YOU are the troll and your posts prove it
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Anisahoni
Get a vasectomy and worry about your legs foolish chld.
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Daniel Gray
Cant stand it when you get showed to be wrong can you?
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Anisahoni
Daniel Gray is such a troll. Not very smart, not respectful and is 100% woman hater. Just ignore the clot.
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Daniel Gray
Nope I just proved you wrong and a troll.
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Amber Fry
Sorry Daniel it just doesn't work that way. Too many men are out of control and force it. Before mandating something that is far more damaging onto a woman, it might be much wiser to see that and make necessary adjustments on male attitude and behavior.
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Daniel Gray
Oh really, based on what do you make that assumption?
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Anisahoni
Men, control YOUR sperm. Get a vasectomy or STFU.
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Tom
There's a reason that sperm banks exist...
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Daniel Gray
yep, its for ugly women to have babies...lolol
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Tom
Or so women don't have to associate with cretins like you.
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Samantha Guthrie
I mean thats already a thing that can happen. Researchers have already been successful in using female mouse bone marrow to impregnate another mouse and are starting to move on to human cell testing.
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Herbert Moore
Amen.
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Ty Ford
Mother's body, mother's right.....period.
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Daniel Gray
same statement can be used for the covid vaccine, so I would be VERY careful in posting such drivil.
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Tom
One thing only affects the mother, the other affects everyone in their community. You're making a false equivalence fallacy.
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Daniel Gray
Nope I am not. I am stating fact. What are you going to do with people like me. I CANT take the vaccine because it wiuld have adverse reactions to the nerve medication I am already on from the VA, like heart damage or a stroke. And I am not going to commit suicide for you.
And I also have a doctors script that states I cant wear a mast do to PTSD. Now since I am covered under the ADA laws, what exactly can you do? not a darn thing and neither can the courts or the police unless they want a federal felony ADA lawsuit on their hands that they cant win.
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Tom
So you have a legitimate medical reason to be exempt from vaccination. That's not the same as believing that there is a religious reason why you shouldn't be vaccinated. You of all people should be encouraging everyone who is able to get vaccinated so that they don't pass the virus off to you, a person who medically can't wear a mask or get vaccinated.
The reason there is such a push for vaccinations right now, Daniel, is specifically for those in our communities, such as you, who medically can't protect themselves from the virus with vaccinations. You need as many people as possible in your community to be vaccinated so that they don't accidentally pass the virus to you when you are more likely to be killed by it.
Meanwhile a woman in your community choosing to end a pregnancy or not has absolutely zero impact on your ability to live or participate in your community.
Your making a false equivalence fallacy because you are saying that a woman's right to end an unwanted pregnancy, which solely affects her and the zygote/fetus inside of her, is the same as a person's freedom to abstain from a vaccine that prevents the spread of a deadly disease, which affects everyone in their community.
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Amber Fry
Not really. Because the virus is easily spread it's a matter of public health. Vaccine refusal in the case emergencies, such as a pandemic, affect everyone. Abortion only affects the woman in question and isn't an easy decision to come by. The fact remains that makes it hers and her family and doctor to work out.
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Amber Fry
Comment removed by user.
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David Arthur Lewis
So if we totally ban abortions, are we then going to mandate a DNA test to determine the father, and force him to pay child and mother support? Will Medicare still pay for his Viagra? Is there any legislator, lawyer, lobbyist, or pastor in America who would support that? Because the MEN need to take some responsibility here. Methinks the Edwin doth protest too much.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Any time, I, as both a ULC Bishop, with a DD, and as a Celebrant with FFRF, — any time I meet someone who opposes any abortion, under any conditions, I ask them if they have any family members, under the age of twelve, who, because they are already menstruating, might become pregnant if they are raped by their father, or some other family member.
I ask them, if your 11-year old granddaughter, did become pregnant, and her pediatrician told her mother, that, because of her childhood pelvic size, would face possible death — from carrying her childhood pregnancy to term.
Would such circumstances, cause such an antiabortion zealot, to reconsider — because it was their granddaughter?
If they answer “absolutely not” — I respond “just because you’d allow your pregnant granddaughter to face possible death — unless they have an abortion — what gives you the right (arrogance) to force me, as a grandfather, to allow your arrogance (that everyone else is required, by law, to deny an abortion to their pregnant granddaughter) just because your religion requires you to do so?
What arrogance — to actually believe, that what they believe, should be forced on to everyone else — regardless of how much they love their granddaughter.
Any ULC minister (or bishop’s with a DD) should be exiled from the ULC, if they refused to allow their pregnant 11-year old granddaughter to obtain an abortion.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Republicans need to stop controlling women.
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Daniel Gray
Nope sorry they are not controlling anything. And to whine about this because you dont like the law is childish. What exactly are you going to do if the SCOTUS UPHOLDS the Mississippi law and bans all abortions after 15 weeks. The ladies can still get one, they just have a very limited time to do it.
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Amber Fry
I call bull. If they were not controlling women then these laws would be across the board, as in vasectomies for men (which are reversible) until they are secure enough to have children, a boost in sex health education and serious boosts to birth control and research for better means. But they don't. It's all about women. In fact the insurances often cover men's sexual health (Viagra anyone?) and regularly cut women's health needs. If it wasn't about controlling women then the focus wouldn't be so heavily on cutting and blocking health specific to women.
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Daniel Gray
Yep your post IS bull. I cite law and it makes no difference if you like it or not.
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Jean Bakula
I agree Amber. He's just a troll. Don't get upset by him. Have you noticed no breakthroughs in male birth control in many, many years? I see commercials for spermicides for women like in the 1970s. We are indeed moving backwards. I am in my 60s, (and a widow) so it doesn't matter for me anymore. But I worry about younger women affected by these draconian laws. Maybe there should have a moratorium on sex to wake men up. I was so sick of always being the one to be on birth control, and finally felt free to enjoy sex when I reached menopause! Women have to bear the burdens of having a healthy sex life too, as condoms are only about 85% effective. Why aren't scientists searching for birth control for men? Instead they can get Viagra by mail without a script, a bunch of old men nobody wants to have sex with anyway. And women have to be embarrassed at the OBGYN and judged for wanting to have sex without getting pregnant? Even the best birth control can fail. And if a woman if raped or there is incest, she should never have to carry that fetus unless she wants to. But we are living in a Theocracy now. The word abortion should not be used. It's health care.
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JPrime
If a woman sleeps with 100 men, she can end up pregnant ONCE in 9 months. If a man sleeps with 100 women, it is possible to end up with 100 pregnancies. Seems to me we are creating birth control for the wrong gender….
Vasectomies prevent abortions. Keep religion off women’s bodies. Abortions are HEALTHCARE.
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Amber Fry
Partly. Either way it tends to be the woman who has to raise the kid in most cases as well. If a man cannot do the supporting of that he aught not to be partaking anyway.
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John D. Partin
Abortions aren't healthcare for the unborn, whom they primarily affect and are directed against, but are very unhealthy and fatal for them!! For any women to care only about themselves and their own health to the exclusion of consideration of the unborn opens the door for and "legitimizes" all other people's only caring about themselves and not women who are affected by their self-centeredness and indifference to others, such as rapists, sexual harassers, child molesters, domestic abusers, chauvinists, serial killers, deniers of equality and rights to women, misogynists, racists, and all other unjust people. Self-centeredness isn't going to go only so far and stop with women's only being concerned about themselves, but will continue on to all other areas of life. So, approving of it for women is, ultimately, approving of it everywhere, since it is a Pandora's box and the worst is yet to come!! The very rape that causes women to want to abort their babies is also the result of that very same self-centered thinking!! Only someone who loves looking at pictures of aborted babies or would like to be the abortion "doctor" for all of them would be an actual supporter of the REALITY!! of abortions and "pro-choice", which permits those abortions to happen, not merely the abstract and impersonal theory of abortions and "women's rights". All other sane and moral people, who are repulsed by those pictures, even if some of them claim to be "pro-choice" (due to their indoctrination and brainwashing), are actually pro-life. So, "pro-choice' is actually a non-existent position among all sane and moral people, and only adhered to by sick and immoral people. Pro-life is the only truly sane, moral, respectable, responsible, and intelligent position on the unborn, which everyone actually believes, as their reaction to pictures of aborted babies proves, no matter how much or vehemently their indoctrination makes them deny it!!
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David Arthur Lewis
Who Would Jesus Hate? I mean, besides rich men.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
How about rich white men? Jesus wasn't white and the Bible tells these men to help the poor and give their money away. The typically don't do either.
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Amber Fry
He didn't hate. That was the point. He was greatly disappointed in and angry at the rich who refused to help those in need though they had the ability and means. But he didn't hate. He preached caring for those who needed it without expecting anything in return. That was his way. Now other parts of the bible have the ways of other people and it's easy to confuse those other ways with his ways, but what he specifically taught is quite clear.
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P. Keith Benefiel
Hypocrites
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Charles Jude Platt
When the hell did we stop believing in God??? These people have one evil mind, stop abortion. There's got to be some other way. Why not CRITIZE THE MEN WHO CAUSE THE NEED FOR ABORTION?
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Douglas Robert Spindler
People stopped believing in God 500 years ago after Martin Luther found the Catholic church was scamming people. And more recently when priests were rapping young children. People just don't like to be lied to in the name of God. Imagine if women were the religious leaders and thought men should be castrated to prevent pregnancies.
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Asa William Sprague, II
Contrary to your opinion, millions of people still believe in God.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
That is true, but there are less everyday. Especially the young people. They are tired of the lies Christians spread in the name of religion.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Charles, my God doesn't like your god.
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Anisahoni
god is a figment of your imagination. Besides, your guy in thoe sky loved killing babies and pregnant women. Read your so called holy book.
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Gwendolyn Lord
A woman's body belongs to her. Her sexual health and reproductive health is private, personal to her. Nobody's business.
I used to go to an excellent women's clinic. The protesters outside were ridiculous, and their nonsense created enough of a risk, that the clinic closed. A valuable resource for Inner City women was lost. Already underserved, now the women and girls have lost the one clinic that helped every woman. So....services lost were ob/gyn based, but many other issues were left unaddressed. They used to do testing for HIV/AIDS, for example. Health monitoring for disease, prevention of diseases, birth control. Education. I brought my daughter there at 14, and she got excellent counseling. Empathetic, comprehensive, non-judgmental. The staff were exceptional, the doctors so caring. All gone now, because some people decided to make trouble, and creat a climate of violence and fear. Certainly not true Christians, fake smug hypocrites.
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Gwendolyn Lord
A woman's body belongs to her. Her sexual health and reproductive health is private, personal to her. Nobody's business.
I used to go to an excellent women's clinic. The protesters outside were ridiculous, and their nonsense created enough of a risk, that the clinic closed. A valuable resource for Inner City women was lost. Already underserved, now the women and girls have lost the one clinic that helped every woman. So....services lost were ob/gyn based, but many other issues were left unaddressed. They used to do testing for HIV/AIDS, for example. Health monitoring for disease, prevention of diseases, birth control. Education. I brought my daughter there at 14, and she got excellent counseling. Empathetic, comprehensive, non-judgmental. The staff were exceptional, the doctors so caring. All gone now, because some people decided to make trouble, and creat a climate of violence and fear. Certainly not true Christians, fake smug hypocrites.
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Wilson Petithomme jr
You people keep screaming “a woman’s body” but the woman isn’t being murdered when get the abortion this it’s the living body growing in her that is being protected. I will not debate this bye.
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Glenn Ordell
Perhaps all of those loyal TRUMPettes should investigate how many dollars were allocated by their fearless leader to assist numerous impregnated ladies in his many haremS to murder Mr. Trump's unborn offspring?
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James Thomas Mackay
How come citizens who oppose abortion are banned from assembling outside a Planned Parenthood office and disruptive and unruly BLM and Antifa protestors are left alone? What BS the left is perpetuating. Jim Mackay
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Tom
One group is preventing a person from seeking medical care. BLM is protesting police brutality and racism, Antifa is counter-protesting fascists who want to attack minorities and minority owned businesses. How are these things the same?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Democrats and others ought to quit controlling women, too. As a matter of fact, everyone should quit controlling anyone, except in the bedroom, with mutual consent.
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Amber Fry
And other than trying to give them their rights back, where exactly are they trying to control women? Encouragement is not control. Support and help is not control. Banning rights and dictating behavior based in religious belief is control.
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Deborah Jean Howard
It is the woman’s choice and only the Woman’s choice. No one else’s. It is not for the public concern, it’s not for the law, and it’s not for any type of religious concern. If these protesters care so much for children so they claim. Worry about the children that are abandoned. Worry about the ones that are neglected. Why don’t you foster why don’t you adopt.
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Wilson Petithomme jr
It’s not the Woman’s body being aborted so how is it her choice alone? Abortion is murder.
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Edwin Merle Waltz
All abortions should be outlawed except for rape and incest
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Lionheart
I can see that’s a very well thought out comment Edwin 🤮. Are you one of those that also supports a misogynistic, genocidal, infanticidal God?
Before you penned your comment, did you give any thought towards pregnant women whose lives may be at risk giving birth, or the unborn infant/fetus that might be anatomically not well enough to support its own life?
🦁❤️
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David Arthur Lewis
All religions should be outlawed except for mine.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Sill oppresses women. Is there a reason you don't trust women to make a good decision for what's best for them? Would you like a women to tell you what you can and cannot do with your body?
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Douglas Robert Spindler
I like your attitude. You have my vote for president.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
If your religion's the same as mine David I agree with you. If not, come down off your high horse.
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Herbert Moore
None for medical reasons?
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Wilson Petithomme jr
I agree 100%... to suggest abortion is anything other than murder is Ludacris.
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Edwin Merle Waltz
All abortions should be outlawed except for rape and incest
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Anisahoni
Do you have a vagina? Do you have a upnterus? Can you get pregnant? If the anwers are no, then shut up and control your sperm.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Catherine Ohrin-Greipp well said Christian men as narrow minded as that guy should have his penis cut of by a women to see what it's like when a man takes control of a women's body.
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Edwin Merle Waltz
Well dear I raised 5 step children and adopted another one.
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Edwin Merle Waltz
Well dear I raised 5 step children and adopted another one.
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Edwin Merle Waltz
Well dear I raised 5 step children and adopted another one.
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John P Maher
EVER BEEN PREGNANT Edwin WALTZ ? THAN S T F U.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I bet you never got a woman pregnant who you didn't marry, have you Edwin?
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John McMarlin III
In Texas, as long as this vicious law’s attempt to control women is enforced & vigilantism is encouraged, then there should be a $10000 bounty on the men who get the women pregnant. Their law is disgusting & another example of old white men’s misogyny.
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David Arthur Lewis
So pass a law, if you have the votes. Which you don't.
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Thom
I have no say about abortion but I do have a say about the first amendment. This "judge" like so many these days are restricting several parts of the first amendment to the Constitution - Right to assemble, freedom of religion and, freedom of speech.
Cancel culture is winning and the "courts" as well as the department of "justice" is restricting the rights of American citizens.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
In 1989, my girlfriend asked me if it was alright with me if she got an abortion. I said yes. As a matter of fact, I was overjoyed! Anything to avoid marriage! At 26, I was too young to get married. And now at 58 I'm still too young. You can bet your bottom dollar that I've never forgotten to wear a condom again!
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Anisahoni
Problem is, other than vasectomy, 99% of conraceptive methods are faulty. Codoms break, and pills are not 100%. My son is a testatment to that. The brand I took was removed from the market after numerous women got pregnant. Men have been lazy and need to conrol their sperm or STFU about our healthcare decisions.
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Amber Fry
The right to PEACEFULLY assemble. That means no violence, and no harassment. Freedom of religion does not mean freedom to impress that religion on others. Freedom of speech does not include lies and abuse. They are not restricting rights, just making sure those rights stay within the bounds the constitution states.
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Richard Lee Cornell
The virgin Mary was just that until she gave birth she was consider a virgin. From the day she was marry it would have been nine months before the baby came out. Too bad her husband lack the sperm to get her pregnant. So who knock her up would be the question, usually it would be Joseph brother. A family matter. Back in those days it was not unusual for a female to give birth once a year until she die in child birth. In the Roman Empire every female was going to give birth rather they like it or not. Armies were needed and the only way to have a large army is with every woman getting pregnant.
Churches run on that number more births that larger number of children in the church the more money a church can get in. Having a church tell others how to live their lives and in this case telling the Planned Parenthood what they can do to help women is a sin in itself. If they do not want the women in their church to able to get abortion then it is their business. But I expect that many of the church families are not that large where every female from the age of 13 is pregnant. I could be wrong about that.-
Daniel Gray
Sorry liar. she was pregnant BEFORE Joseph took her for a wife. Try reading the bible if you are going to comment on it
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John McMarlin III
Plus, there is no proof the “virgin” Mary was a virgin. All girls were called virgins 2021 & more years ago. And God is not a man. God is a concept.
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Samantha Guthrie
this is so historically inaccurate it hurts
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Sarah Raulerson
I think the protestors are doing it as a show of faith without realizing that yelling at non-believing young girls who may just be going in for birth control or an std test is getting angry with them without cause and Jesus said that is also murder.
I don't believe that God endorses civil disobedience, and I believe that if these people really wanted to enact change they would work on the state and federal levels supporting candidates that are against abortion and encouraging them to change what planned parenthood can do and how they do it instead of standing outside of a clinic with snarky signs yelling at young girls.
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Wilson Petithomme jr
You make a great point.
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James Martz
Any reasonable person can see that they are there to disrupt, intimidate, and push a twisted hypocritical religious agenda. They claim to be Pro-"Life" when in fact and in practice they are nothing more than Pro-BIRTH. These same people who feel that it is there duty, given to them by God, to protest the abortion of an embryo are the same ones that will kill an already living abortion Dr. I also remember something about NOT JUDGING anyone and not to question God's WILL. These people are vile, evil people in every way and they will hide behind the Bible to promote their agenda. One last thing...who gets to determine what is moral and what isn't to an individual? Wouldn't it be the individual themself?
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Clay Serenbetz
A 4-year-old was killed by her mother who refused to have the child vaccinated. The mother should face charges of voluntary manslaughter, child endangerment and child abuse. I’m not holding my breath. Again our Society accepts, as morally and ethically acceptable, recklessly endangering your child and thereby causing its death. Texas laws protect the unborn with cruel indifference to consequences, but cares nothing about life outside of the womb. Texas not only fails to protect life once born, but actually executes citizens before guilt or innocence is known without any doubt. So much for the sanctity of human life. This evidence demonstrates that Conservatives only feign to sanctify human life, when, in reality, they are craven posers seeking votes from ill-informed constituents.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but they can ignore this and there is nothing planned parenthood or this judge can do about it as long as the protestors do not stand on planned parenthoods property. The in fact CAN stand out in front of the building on a public sidewalk and they are well within their rights to do so according to the US Supreme Court. The justices unanimously struck down a Massachusetts law that set a 35-foot buffer zone on the sidewalks near abortion facilities. The court said this no-standing, no-talking zone violated the First Amendment. The name of the case is McCullen v. Coakley, 573 U.S. 464 So while I am sorry, as long as they dont set foot on planned parenthoods property and stay on public property, this judges decision is illegal and unenforceable as he does not have the authority to overturn a SCOTUS decision.
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John McMarlin III
If those who are anti/abortion are under the rule of God & the constitution, let me remind them Roe vs Wade is a legal ruling therefore protected by our constitution but more importantly, based on their interpretation of morality, God tells us, in the Bible, life begins @ birth. It does not say it begins @ conception. Follow the rules of God & stop telling God you will follow your own rules instead.
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Pastor Barton
A small % of women go to PP for prenatal care. A majority go there for abortions.
Free speech is free speech. The point is to disrupt, and as long as they're not physically hurting anyone, then they should be allowed to protest the same as anyone else. Equal protection under the law.
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Daniel Gray
Just checked and the claim that female bone marrow from a mouse makes another female mouse pregnant is utter BS!! What the story ACTUALLY states is this:
"A new study from Massachusetts General Hospital (MGH) researchers confirms that female mice that receive bone marrow transplantation after fertility-destroying chemotherapy can go on to have successful pregnancies throughout their normal reproductive life."
It does NOT say that the female bone marrow makes the other female mouse pregnant, it says it allows them to become pregnant after being made unable to become pregnant. Just goes to show that the person who made this original lie of a post is just desperate and a confirmed liar.
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Michael K. Mac Munn
As I'm reading through these posts as I have seen in so many before the main issues of bullying intimidation tactics directing anger and hate towards others is what's the issue of this legal judgment, the issue of the judgment was not about abortion. Since when has bullying intimidation tactics directing anger and hate towards others become god like or constitutional, not discussing abortion but the tactics that were being used
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Michael K. Mac Munn
In addition to my previous post when has trump had anything to do with God's agenda there is a reason why politics and religion are supposed to be kept separate in government. This is a copy and paste from the article above.(Peters explains that “Christians, patriots, constitutionalists, Trump supporters [feel] super-backed into a corner and ticked off... It’s only going to stir us up more, and it’s only going to make us more aggressive and make us grow our movement.”. What was that again, how much more aggressive?
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Angel
I am not a supporter of using abortion as a form of birth control, nor do I agree with allowing young girls to get one without their paren't knowledge, especially when the parent's are still legally responsible for her..But they do provide other services and everyone has a story. Some women, myself included, have miscarried a child so a D$C is necessary for medical reasons. On paper, tey call it an abortion, in reality, the baby is already dead and the body won't clean out the remains on it's own. I hemorraged and almost died. Luckily, the hospital I went to did an an emergency D$C. But there are hospitals out there who refuse to perform this een if it is medically necessary, and this may be their only option. There is no "one size fits all" situation. The person going in could be getting birth control to avoid getting an abortion. Some of these kids would be saved a lot of heartache by parents who didn't want them and brutally killed them later on. I worked with a 5 year old child that was given a death sentance the day she was born. Her parents were HIV positive and so she and her siblings were as well. She was the last one still alive and watch her entire family die, as they didn't have these treatments in those days. And it was only a matter of time for her.I'm not getting into the "women's body,women's right" bs because I'm not about the pendulum and standing with one side or the other. But they do provide some necessary services and they shouldn't be harrassed for seeking help.
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Jean Bakula
We live in a Democracy in America, at least for now. Our laws should not be based on anyone's religious beliefs, that's a Theocracy. If the Christian Church goers have no need for women's health care, they don't have to get it. They should stop trying to push their beliefs on other women. They usually don't explain sex or birth control to their young people, who then get pregnant because of ignorance. So they create the situations they protest about.
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Justine Mercieca
There should be no comments at all. "Judge not lest ye be judged". Pretty simple. Other people's decisions are their own. If you judge them for those decisions then you'll not enter heaven. Fundamental idiots.
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John D. Partin
Justine Mercieca, the same Jesus who said "Judge not lest ye be judged" condemned the hypocrisy, pretentiousness, and ungodliness of the scribes and Pharisees, and called them whited sepulchres and a brood of vipers, though their decisions and behavior were also their own. So, not judging people has never meant not condemning the wrong things that they do, think, and say, such as abortion, pro-choice, and indifference to the unborn. Jesus certainly entered Heaven, despite condemning the Pharisees (or because of it) and everyone else will enter Heaven, too, when they also condemn wrong actions and thinking and speaking. Jesus also said "By their fruits you will know them", which doesn't contradict not judging, either, or he wouldn't have said it.
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Are these protesters aware that Planned Parenthood offers services other than abortion? Or do they also oppose cancer screening and STD tests and treatment?
The fact is that according to data collected from them over many years, they do so many other services that abortions are somewhere around 2% - 5% of those services depending on the year. The vast majority of what they do is actually prenatal care and health checks.
I guess you are not aware they are abortion for profit.
[snip] In a scheme described as “legalized money-laundering,” the abortion giant Planned Parenthood has both given and received money from Oregon Gov. Kate Brown.
Brown, who was re-elected on Nov. 6, has a 100-percent pro-abortion record. In 2017, she signed a bill expanding taxpayer-funded abortions to illegal immigrants and government employees in Oregon, already one of the most pro-abortion states in America.
Now, her campaign donations from Planned Parenthood and other groups are being questioned. [/snip source=https://www.lifenews.com/2015/02/19/new-oregon-gov-kate-brown-as-radically-pro-abortion-as-john-kitzhaber/]
or this: UOP sponsors local Planned Parenthood Abortion business. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-JUzqswKZs
They're not about women's rights.
Thank you, Kevin, for your post, but I thought that is what I said and that saying that the abortion industry's making millions or billions of dollars from aborting the unborn was and is saying that they are abortion for profit.
That sounds as though Planned Parenthood are just covering over their 2% -5% of abortions with all of these other services in order to make that 2% - 5% more acceptable or, at least, less objectionable to many people, saying "Look at all of these other things that we are doing for women and our community!! Does this small amount of abortions really matter so much, compared to all of that? Can't you just overlook these few abortions and concentrate on the bigger picture here of our other services?". Don't all people who are trying to slip something rotten or dishonest by other people and get it accepted by them disguise it with a lot of other good things that they know that those people will appreciate? Does any con man ever say to his marks "I'm going to cheat and lie to you and take advantage of you by every means that I can!!" or does he, in fact, say "You can trust me because I will never lie to you or take advantage of you, and just look at all these good and helpful things that I'm going to do for you and am doing for you now!!"? Obviously, he isn't going to tell them the truth because he couldn't con them if he did, but is going to tell them that he is "their best friend" and "only has their best interests at heart". It's no different with the con artists in Planned Parenthood and abortion clinics, who will do a few good services for women, in order to slip these abortions by them among the rest of that. The abortion industry is making millions or billions of dollars from aborting the unborn, and where that much money is involved, honesty, morality, decency, and actual concern for women, no matter what their public relations statements and press conferences say, go flying out the window!! We all really know this to be true, and yet everything continues on with them as though we didn't know it at all!! Are pre-natal care, cancer screening, STD tests and treatment, and other such services only obtainable through places that murder the unborn, even if it were only 1% of what they did there or 1% of 1%, or are they not, in fact, obtainable through other clinics and hospitals and doctors who aren't involved in any of that Holocaust of the unborn and actually do what they are supposed to be doing and healing and not harming life, and following their Hippocratic Oath?!! How low a number of atrocities that shouldn't be happening at all can still happen before people wake up and say that it's wrong?!! Even one is too many, and we are now up to 63 million since Roe v. Wade!! Embryonic transplants take care of cases where women might die giving birth, and then neither the women nor the babies have to die. No baby should have to die because it was conceived in a woman who wants to kill it, instead of being transplanted into another woman who will love and care for it!! Why is it left up to a man here to defend the right of the unborn to life, and no women here are doing that, as they should be?!! If protesters could have demonstrated outside of Nazi death camps without being taken into the camps and killed, too, would anyone say that they shouldn't have protested against that? So, why in a country where people aren't in danger of being killed for protesting against our modern death camps for the unborn, should any people say that they are "wrong" to protest against that?!! Abortion doesn't only concern women's bodies alone because bodies inside their bodies aren't their bodies and deserve their rights to be respected, too!!! The unborn can't defend or speak up for themselves and so it is left up to us to defend them and speak up for them!!