Evangelicals Cheer Texas Abortion Law: "God Bless Texas!"

John D. Partin

I'm glad that you (whoever you might actually be, Cowardly Heartless Lyin'!) have finally decided to take your own advice about getting your own true feelings out there and know that that would be excellent therapy for you, too, and not just for other people, and not keep being evasive about answering my and other people's points and questions to you in our posts to you through phony "superiority" and condescension, patronizing, and talking down to people, and can't wait to see you start doing that in your posts here. You aren't there, yet, as your post here shows, but I'm confident that it will do you a lot of good, if you can ever manage to actually do it. You should try writing longer posts, if they can actually be filled with genuine responses to people, and not just more of your usual non-responsiveness, such as in your post here. You can write as short of your usual posts as you like, since they do neither you nor anyone else any good! It would certainly help you in writing actual responses to people's posts to start worrying about your choice for "President" far more and far less about our beloved and wonderful actual President Joe Biden, who has no problems at all, compared to your guy. Such obsession as you and your ilk have about and against President Biden and for your guy are, quite clearly, not conducive to all of your mental health! So, do try to see a therapist about all of that as soon as you can and stick with it, until you have overcome that difficulty, which will probably take the rest of your life! We all know that it won't be easy, if even possible, for you to break your lifelong habits of evasiveness, considering your conservative indoctrination and upbringing before that, but we are all pulling for you here and wishing you the best with being able to overcome all of that! Very warmest wishes, which we are all certain will be assured and take care of themselves on your present course, and might even have a chance in a different way, if you, by some miracle, are able to overcome all of that difficulty of yours. Good luck with all that!

John D. Partin

"Mister Wilson", "I do not think that Lionheart or I are supporters of the former President...". Have you ever read any of his posts at all or even his post to which I replied above because even a very cursory and skimming reading of his posts will reveal to any honest person who reads them his extreme support of our former "President", to the point that he never admits that that guy ever did or said anything wrong, even when the proof that he did is put right in front of his face and comes right out of his guy's own mouth?!! The same as all other fanatical believers in anything or anyone do! This also proves that you didn't actually research his statements before coming out with your statement that "Lionheart isn't a supporter of our former President". If you ask him yourself, and he tells you the truth, he will tell you that he is a Trumpophile. What relevance do his mindset, beliefs, and personality have to his statements or pro-choice? Because he, the same as you, bases his conclusions on faulty ideas and ill or non-researched beliefs, due to his mindset and personality. That is their relevance to this matter. It isn't ad hominem attacking to say that a liar and faulty "thinker"'s conclusions are also lies and faulty, since that just follows from what he is!! Pro-choice, as I told you already, is the inconsistent, hypocritical, and illogical position of people, such as yourself, who weren't aborted in the womb saying that other people should be aborted in the womb!! Faulty and illogical people, in your way, such as yourself, can't produce logical and consistent statements. It's impossible!! That's the relevance. You say that you don't believe in the Golden Rule, but that is just your being dishonest and unthoughtful with yourself because everyone who isn't insane believes in the Golden Rule, since you want other people not to mug or attack or attempt to kill you or lie to you or do anything else to you that they wouldn't want done to themselves, which is the Golden Rule. So, you do believe in the Golden Rule, the same as we all do, no matter how much you say that you don't, and it is a very realistic and reasonable rule required for the existence of our society!! Trumpelstiltskin cares only about himself and any other people or subjects only to the extent that they have any bearing upon his life at all, and so doesn't actually care about pro-life, but pretends to for appearances' sake to his constituents, to keep them supporting him and "Lionheart" follows his Master's lead, since he also only cares about himself and those who are like or near him, and nobody else!! He isn't a Lionheart actually or he would stand up for the truth and think for himself, and not just cowardly follow Republican and conservative propaganda!! My name for him stands!! I'll reply to more of your post later.

John D. Partin

"Mr. Wilson", Jesus' calling the scribes and Pharisees whited sepulchres and a brood of vipers because their behavior and thinking had made them such weren't irrelevant to their behavior and thinking or ad hominem attacking of them and not talking about the issue of their hypocrisy and ungodliness, due to focusing only on those people. Jesus' statements about them were totally relevant to the issue of their hypocrisy and ungodliness. Their behavior and thinking made them ever more whited sepulchres and a brood of vipers all the time and their being whited sepulchres and a brood of vipers made them practice such behavior and thinking more and more, in a vicious circle!! So, they were intimately connected and relevant to each other. Likewise, my calling "Lionheart" his actual name of Cowardly Heartless Lyin' because his behavior and thinking make him such and his being a cowardly heartless lying dog make him practice that behavior and thinking more and more in a vicious circle isn't an ad hominem attack or irrelevant to the discussion of his behavior and thinking or the issues. As for you, you aren't an actual minister because you don't meet the requirements for being an actual minister, which are teaching and practicing love for all people, including the unborn, standing up for the defenseless, again especially the unborn, and outspokenly believing in the Golden Rule, instead of only de factoedly believing in it, and so you are just making up the term "minister" for yourself to suit yourself. Members of every other profession have to actually know how to practice their professions or else they don't actually qualify as members of those professions, and it is no different for ministers, since otherwise the term "minister" is meaningless!! President Joe Biden does know that abortions are wrong, but he isn't only the leader of Catholics in this country and has to follow the laws of this country, until Roe v. Wade is overturned. There is enough room for all of us in the world and whatever thinning of the population needs to be done can be done quite well by wars, famine, pestilences, diseases, terrorism, and natural disasters, without abortions being necessary to that process at all. As I told Cowardly Heartless Lyin', your calling anyone else "myopic" is ridiculous, since any realistic encyclopedia would, under the heading of Myopia, have a picture of Trumpophiles and also pro-choice people. Women don't live all by themselves in the world, in which case there wouldn't be any pregnancies at all, and so their actions affect the rest of society, and society's decisions overrule women's decisions. More later.

John D. Partin

"Mr. Wilson", you said at the end of your post here "please, let it go", but, as with all pro-choicers' expectations and demands, you expect this letting go to be a totally one-sided affair, wherein pro-lifers and others who disagree with you have to be the ones who should be letting go, while you don't let go of anything!! For the sake of the unborn, we can't let go of our opposition to you and fight to save them from destruction, as long as you aren't letting go of your opposition to them and fight to destroy them!! If all of you let go of all that and consider the unborn and not just women who want to kill them, we will have nothing more (in that area, anyway) to oppose you on and can let go of that, but until you let go, we can't let go, either!! The unborn only have us to defend and speak up for them, since they can't do that for themselves. Are you really so conscienceless and immoral as to believe that the unborn shouldn't have any voices speaking up for them at all and only your voices speaking out against them and their right to live?!! Hardened criminals have lawyers who speak up for them at their trials, even when they are obviously guilty of their crimes, and so why shouldn't innocent unborn children, who have committed no crime, have anyone to speak up for them and defend them from being killed?!! Where is the justice and balance in your point of view and in what you think should be the case?!! Mothers don't have to die because giving birth would kill them, as I have told you repeatedly, since embryonic transplants make that unnecessary, and so saving these mothers' lives isn't a sensible reason to abort their babies. Where mothers won't die from carrying their babies to term, but can't afford to raise them, they can just give them up for adoption the second that they are born and not be bothered by these children's care. Unborn children aren't responsible for how they were conceived (through rape, incest, etc.) and so it is wrong to take that out on them and kill them, which none of us would want done to us if we were conceived through those things, instead of being allowed to live and given to someone else. Anyway, we look at it, your position is totally unfair, unreasonable, cruel, and heartless (to the women, too, who have remorse for the rest of their lives over killing their unborn children, no matter what they tell you, and often have problems and complications from the abortion procedure!). So, you aren't even thinking about these women who abort their babies as much as you claim that you are!! As I told you before, you are the one who is guilty of black and white and either/or thinking, which you accuse me of doing, since you say that it comes down to the woman's life or the baby's life or her having to raise it or its having no home other than foster care at all, when I have shown you that that is a false dichotomy and erroneous choice, because of embryonic transplants and adoption. There is no shortage of people who would love to have children that their mothers don't want or can't keep. So, let those people have those children!! That's just common sense and far more reasonable than destroying them!! Some of them might invent a cure for cancer or some other benefit to society, if only bringing more joy and love into the world, which we deny ourselves by killing them. I'm certainly angry, as you should be, too, at people who would deny us those benefits and only self-centeredly and narrowly care about themselves and what they want for the moment, and not about these unborn children and the greater good of our world. That's the same as Jesus' being angry with the self-centered and hard hearted scribes and Pharisees (the pro-choicers of his time!) and calling them whited sepulchres and a brood of vipers!!!

John D. Partin

"Mr. Wilson", your saying that my "arguments are weak, single-minded, and unconvincing" and that I "have certainly developed a real cathexis" is no different than the rest of the world's blindness toward and refusal to accept the truth of God. Have you ever at all wondered (or do you just not care!) why the Nazis couldn't see that their Holocaust of 6 million Jews and millions of other people was wrong or why white racists couldn't see that their lynchings and beatings and burnings of black people and their homes or churches and discrimination against them were wrong or why serial killers and rapists can't see that they are wrong to do what they do? Or have you ever tried to reason with any of these people to get them to see that they are wrong, only to have them tell you, too, that your arguments against them were "weak, single-minded, and unconvincing", that you had "developed a real cathexis" or whatever other evasions that they could come up with, the same as you? It's because none of the people living in darkness can understand the light or ever agree with it through their own thinking!! There is no argument or point so actually strong that it won't be dismissed as "weak" if it contradicts what people want to believe and how they want to live. This might give you some perspective about yourself and your pro-choice and other views and help you to step back and look at yourself and your views, if anything were ever able to actually do that, which is impossible for you and all these other people!! "This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness, instead of light, because their deeds were evil"---John 3:19. "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned"---1 Corinthians 2:14. None of them or you pro-choicers living in darkness will ever be convinced of any truth just through my or other people's talking to you because your minds are darkened and consciences deadened through living in this dark world, but only through the Light of God shining into your hearts and minds and driving out the darkness!! Until then, it's just going to be "weakness, single-mindedness, unconvincing, cathexis, etc." to you, but we still do what we can and tell you the truth, which is all that we can do for you people!! You may need a Saul on the road to Damascus experience yourself and to be knocked off your high horse of pseudo-intellectual and pseudo-sophisticated pretenses and blinded by the Light of God to finally get your proper sight and thinking and heart restored to you or there for the first time!! It is your blindness that keeps you tripping, as blind people do, over the obstacles in your path of some pro-lifers opposing increasing social services and your other complaints and blaming all of that on the pro-life movement as a whole, when we aren't, logically or fairly, responsible for all that!! You have too much to respond to in one post, but I'll reply more later. "You blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel"---Matthew 23:24 (the "gnat" of the unborn children's being living beings and the "camel" of 63 million abortions since Roe v. Wade's not, according to you, being another Holocaust!!).

John D. Partin

"Mr. Wilson", I don't just agree to disagree with Nazis, Klansmen, Communists, Fascists, male chauvinists, pro-abortion (excuse me, "pro-choice") people, and many others because all views aren't equal or one way of thinking as good as another, but some ways of thinking are wrong and don't deserve to be just gotten along with and those who hold them told "well, that is just your truth and I have my truth"! Truth can't be made up to suit everyone's whim because then there is no such thing as truth, and all these immoral and rotten philosophies and ways of living above would be perfectly fine and good, which they aren't!! There is a standard for truth, just as there are standards for measurement of distance and weight and all other important matters, and not just everyone's making up their own standards for all these things, which would result in confusion and madness!! How much more do we need a standard for the Truth than we do for these other things and not everyone's believing the truth is whatever they say it is, to suit themselves? You say that God's not stopping all "natural abortions" (a misnomer because abortion is killing a living fetus in the womb, not extraction of an already dead fetus from the womb through miscarriage or medical procedure) "proves that God is inept", but I have already told you many times that nature is corrupted because of the Fall of man and so God isn't responsible for what this corrupted nature does, anymore than He is responsible for the corruption of nature through other actions of man since the original fall, such as global warming, which is the result of carbon emissions and pollution of the atmosphere produced by human beings. God isn't responsible for what we choose to do with our free will, that either help or hurt us. That doesn't make God inept, but many human beings inept, since God isn't going to force people to do right or stop them from doing wrong and interfere with their free will, since that would only be His making our decisions for us and not our doing that for ourselves. But there are consequences to our choices! Why don't God's will and thinking on life seem more important to you than just what every woman or man decides for herself or himself, which would bring us to anarchy, confusion, and madness, as I said before? Why do you think that God isn't real because He doesn't solve all of the problems in the world or jump through everybody's hoops and do tricks for them, like a dog or circus lion or a dancing bear, when you don't think that any human being isn't real just because he or she doesn't jump through hoops or do whatever else you tell them? Isn't God entitled to as much self-determination and respect, if not far more so, as we give to other people? Rape and incest should never happen, but when they do, why should unborn children pay with their lives for what was done to those women when they had nothing to do with it? Why does allowing unborn children to be born from those terrible assaults make women "flower pots", instead of bringing good out of evil or embryonically transplanting these children into other women's wombs? Why shouldn't we bring good out of evil, instead of committing more evil in retaliation for evil? Who will pay for embryonic transplants? The medical insurance or other means that are paying for abortions, and save lives rather than destroy lives. Babies are born as innocent as human beings ever get and deserve to live as much as far guiltier people do! More later!

John D. Partin

"Mr. Wilson", you throw out all kinds of complaints and objections here in order to muddy up the waters and in the belief that if you throw enough mud at the wall, some of it will stick, but I'll answer some of these distractions from the issues that you have put out as camouflage. It isn't thinking of oneself as Jesus to be morally outraged at abortion, unless you are also thinking of yourself as Jesus when you are outraged at anything! Are you also guilty of "moral reductionism" and "ignorance" when you are outraged by whatever it is that outrages you or are you, as usual, operating on a double standard? "Furthermore, a woman may develop a unique psychological connection with the nurturing embryo; just giving it up might not be as easy as you think". Oh, but murdering this embryo that the woman has developed "a unique psychological connection with" will be "easier" and "more humane" for her than just giving it up for adoption or transplanting it into another woman?!! In what universe?!! Because murdering or playing games about murdering isn't more humane or easier on women in this world than are adoption and transplantation!! Why shouldn't good be brought out of the evil of rape or incest, instead of more evil brought out of it, through killing innocent (of any personal wrongdoing) children in the womb, when good was even brought out of the far greater evil than rape or incest of the Holocaust of the Jews by the Nazis with the creation of the State of Israel?!! Israel may not have been born without that Holocaust's having taken place, which forced the necessity for a Jewish homeland upon the world's thinking! And even apart from such monstrous evils as the Holocaust and the crimes of the Soviet Union and other Communist and other dictatorships, don't we all in the rest of our everyday lives try to bring good out of the bad and evil things that happen to us and, as the saying goes, "When life hands you lemons, you make lemonade". Why would pregnancy through rape or incest be an exception to this general rule and practice of people to bring good out of bad or evil things that happen to them? That makes the rapists and incestuous men win twice: by hurting their women victims and also destroying the children produced by their rotten actions!! Embryonic transplants and adoptions take away these evil men's power over their victims and give the victims power over them!! Christ's death on the Cross shows us that good can overcome evil, despite all the corruption that evil spirits have brought into the Church since it's founding. But they won't be victorious in the end: the powers of Light and Truth will be victorious!! The whole pro-life movement isn't responsible for the actions of some people in it, as concerns opposing tax increases, bank bailouts, black people's "simply immigrating to America", etc., unless all pro-choicers are also to blame for the actions of any in your ranks! Gay couples should be allowed to adopt children, in my view, even if that disagrees with many in the pro-life movement, because it is better for children to have two men or two women raising them, if no straight couples are stepping up to do that, but a man and a woman as parents are still probably the best way of raising children. Even many gay people would say that that is the ideal, but anything is better than killing children because nobody is taking them. I haven't seen angels or God Himself, either, but know that they are there from their effects on the world. So, your statement that I haven't seen a fetus is ridiculous, since that doesn't make them not real!! Your other "points" are irrelevant and just distractions.

John D. Partin

"Wilson", your "thinking" that "my arguments are weak and unconvincing" is still the result of your darkened and disordered state of soul, heart, and mind, and so is unrealistic, irrelevant, and unthinking. You were shown how other ungodly people would also dismiss your questioning and points about them as "weak, single-minded, unconvincing, cathexis", and all the same evasions that you give about my questioning and points about you, and you couldn't take a hint from all that and see its relevance to your own "thinking" and behavior to gain any perspective and self-knowledge about yourself at all!! That reveals a total lack of openness to understanding and learning the truth about yourself!! The other ungodly people are as incapable of understanding the truth about themselves as you are and it is as pointless to try to reason with them as it is with you and get all of you to see that you are wrongheaded and wrong hearted. "Inconsistencies" according to an actually inconsistent person, such as yourself, are the result of your own wrongheaded and wronghearted state of "thinking" and so just in your own mind, and will be until God shines His light into your heart and mind and drives out all that darkness!! The natural person is one who lives and "thinks" only according to ungodly and purely natural ways of "thinking" and living and does what is right in his own eyes, instead of in God's eyes. A godly person is also a human being and naturally a person, but one who doesn't just follow his own thinking and tries to follow God's truth. Your not knowing this or pretending that you don't in order to "justify" your "thinking" and my having to explain this to you are more proof (if any more proof were necessary) that you aren't actually a minister, but only making up the term "minister" for yourself to suit yourself. The difference between a natural person and a godly person is obvious to all right thinking people and to everyone to whom it can be obvious, and if it isn't obvious to you, there is an obvious reason for that: you aren't a spiritually minded and living person and can't tell the difference!! It is your job as a minister (or would be, if you were an actual minister) to lead people toward righteousness and not to be led by them by your nose into whatever unrighteousness that they want to lead you! You are supposed to be a Shepherd for people and not just another one of the sheep or, worse yet, a wolf in sheep's clothing, as you actually are!! It is God, not me, who says to women that they should honor the lives in their wombs and not kill them, which you would know if you were actually a minister of God, instead of the phony that you are, and not be saying that women should "obey John"!! The NY Times, Vox, Cleveland Clinic, and the article "Womb Transplant Babies" online say that embryonic transplants from one woman to another and/or uterus transplants are possible and being done, and there are many more such articles, but, of course, they should have consulted you first before issuing their statements, since you "know more about it than they do", in your own mind, anyway. If you were having a conversation just with yourself, which probably happens all the time, since you are the only person who agrees with you, you could say what would be allowed in the conversation and what is "relevant" or "irrelevant", but when you are in a conversation with another person, you don't get to control and manipulate the conversation and keep out of it what you say "doesn't belong in it". Your not seeing the relevance (or pretending that you don't) of Nazis to the discussion of this Holocaust of the unborn, even if you refuse to admit that it is a Holocaust because that would hurt your case for abortion, is your misunderstanding and problem, as usual, and not anything actually irrelevant with mentioning them. Your saying "Ya, this makes no sense, John" about a statement of God's Truth is still more evidence that you aren't an actual minister. You aren't a realistic judge of what is "ignorance", considering your own statements. There isn't much point in having any more "conversation" with someone as dishonest with himself and everyone else as you are, and so we can stop doing so and wasting my time, efforts, and energy, as far as I'm concerned, and whenever you want to stop. That would be great!!

John D. Partin

"Wilson" if you want to erroneously believe that my or anyone else's saying that there are actual requirements for ministers beyond just what everyone decides for himself or herself is "the no true Scotsman fallacy", "ad hominem", "ad hoc", "ad luminem", "ad infinitum", "ad nauseam", "strawmen" or anything else that you want to mischaracterize it as, well, of course, that is just what you people always do, but that, quite obviously, doesn't make it true. The Bible itself says that there are requirements for ministers and just everyone with any thinking or behavior whatsoever doesn't actually qualify as a minister, and it isn't indulging in "the no true Scotsman fallacy" or any other of your evasions when it does so, but merely stating the obvious truth and reasonable thinking on the matter. "And many false Prophets will arise and will deceive many" (Matthew 24:11). "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light" (2 Corinthians 11:13-14). "Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in Heaven". And many other Scriptures, which I don't quote, so as to not turn this post into one long listing of Scripture verses, and not have any space left for my own statements. But it can't be wrong to make these distinctions or "bullying" or "browbeating" you or anyone else just to tell you these truths and distinctions which the Bible itself states. You are guilty of the Throw The Baby Out With The Bathwater Fallacy and because of some statements and actions in the Bible about shrimp eating, mixing fabrics, stoning of unruly children, and the Bible writers' (not God's!) endorsement of owning people as property, you dismiss the entire rest of the Bible as being the Word of God and worthy of anyone's belief! The Bible, the same as any other book actually written by human beings, no matter how divinely inspired, is going to have some human thoughts, laws, and customs in it, and it is the history of God's dealings with these people, and their history, too, but we shouldn't, on that account, dismiss all of it indiscriminately or only accept the parts that we like. You false ministers, as the Bible itself (not just John Partin) calls you, believe, in practice, in telling people what they want to hear, instead of what they need to hear, which are usually not the same thing, and going along with them in their wrong thinking and living, and being blind leaders of the blind!! And both of you falling into the ditch, as Jesus said!! "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate to themselves teachers to suit their own desires" (2 Timothy 4:3). "We must no longer be children, tossed to and fro and blown about by every wind of doctrine, by people's trickery, by their craftiness in deceitful scheming" (Ephesians 4:14). Your saying that I "lost this debate" is merely what your ungodly kind have always been saying about the Truth of God, but the Truth of God is still here and victorious, despite all your claims of "defeating that Truth and winning the debate", since self-deceit is what you people do to yourselves!! "God is dead" said Friedrich Nietzsche, but God had the last and true word and said "Nietzsche is dead", and says that same thing over every grave of a God denier and hater!! Dark forces, light and dark, godly and ungodly aren't irrelevant considerations, as you and your ilk claim, but merely the Truth of God and reasonable thinking and common sense!! Your accusing me or anyone else of being "dishonest", considering your own statements and "thinking", is really the whole pot factory's calling a single kettle "black"!! No more room now, but more later.

John D. Partin

"Wilson", God overrules the Supreme Court, even if you have deceived and blinded yourself to the point that you "think" that "the Supreme Court overrules God"!! The Lord of all the Universe versus one court in one country on this relative speck of dust in the vastness of the universe!! Even you, if you were thinking correctly, should be able to see and admit that God wins absolutely in that contest, and if you don't see that, that is one more proof that you don't come up to the standards and requirements of an actual minister, which put God and His will above the decisions of any merely human judiciary. It can't be right to have standards and requirements for ministry and all other professions, but "the no true Scotsman fallacy" and wrong to expect you and other people to live up to those standards and requirements, because, then, there is no point to having standards and requirements, which nobody has to live up to or they can merely interpret for themselves if they are doing so, instead of objectively evaluating if they are doing so. That would be insanity (and is for you and other people!) and you can't have it both ways!! God's getting in the way of what people want to do, think, and say is why so many people throughout history and today have rejected belief in God and said that "God is dead", from ancient Rome to the Renaissance to the French Revolution to Friedrich Nietzsche to the Soviet Union to Nazi Germany to billions of individuals in this world!! Human self-centeredness and egotism don't, in fact, overrule the will of God or make Him non-existent, even if they have blindly, as you have, convinced themselves and yourself that they do!! It is your job (or would be if you were an actual minister, instead of making up the term "minister" to suit yourself!) to lead people out of self-centered, self-justifying, and egotistical "thinking" into the Truth of God, and not be going along with them in that "thinking" and being one of their Pied Pipers of Hamlin, leading them down to destruction!! The proof of God's existence and concern for the world, for Cowardly Heartless Lyin' and other atheists in here, is the synchronization, calibration, coordination, and planning evident in the universe, which blind and unthinking nature is incapable of doing!! There is no shortage of this evidence for God's existence and concern for the world, but the problem is with the minds of those who are looking at this evidence, who have set their minds against any evidence for God's existence and blocked all of that out of their minds, as you have, and won't believe any evidence even when it is right in front of their faces, the same as they would reject the existence of spirits, despite their appearing to them and staring them in their faces!! That is their version of "open-mindedness" and "scientific thinking". None are so blind as those who will not see!!

John D. Partin

"Wilson", you complain about the prohibitions of shrimp eating, mixing fabrics, the stoning of unruly children, and the Bible writers' "endorsement of owning people as property" (not God's ordering any of these things, but only what was ascribed to God) and say that "Biblical poetry and quixotic religious zealotry" (your term for Saul's experience on the road to Damascus) don't excuse any of these things because you have still failed to understand, since it would be inconvenient to your position for you to understand, that God isn't responsible for the negative things that people attribute to Him and isn't going to stop people from doing that, anymore than He stops people from doing any other evil things and make the decision not to do so for them and isn't actually defined by any of that!! You constantly misunderstand my and other people's statements and think that what we are telling you that God has revealed to us about Himself in His Word and teaching is our "understanding God's spirit better than God", but if you or anyone else tells us something about yourself or himself, we aren't said to "know you or him better than either of you do"! That is very inconsistent "thinking" on your part!! The atrocities in the world don't disprove God's light coming into and being in the world because, as I said about Nazi Germany and the Holocaust of the Jews, God brings good even out of that monstrous evil with the creation of the State of Israel and overcomes the evil!! He overcomes all other evils, in His time. Your not believing or knowing that is even more proof that you aren't actually a minister, but have only made up the term to suit yourself!! Saul's experience on the road to Damascus is another example of God's overcoming evil with good, as is every other conversion experience. As I have already told you in my earlier post, you won't ever be able to understand the truth of God or what I'm saying to you here until God shines His light into your heart, mind, and soul, and so there is no point in talking to you anymore until God does so to you, unless God would use my words to open your heart and mind. I pray that He will do so.

John D. Partin

"Wilson" has shown me that I don't need to be trying to convince him of something that he already believes, which is the correctness of pro-life principles and thinking, but merely to bring him back again to who he really is and what he really believes, which is a pro-life person and pro-life, since that has been clouded and confused in all "pro-choicers" minds, due to indoctrination and peer pressure against it! Nobody actually believes in "pro-choice" and it doesn't actually exist, but that is merely a popular delusion and misunderstanding and the result of propaganda and brainwashing. Everyone actually believes in pro-life, since all people are instinctively and unavoidably revolted by the evidence of abortions put right in front of their faces, the same as they are by pictures of piles of bodies of Holocaust victims put right in front of them!! The harder they claim that they are "for abortions and pro-choice", the more that they actually prove that they are merely repeating their indoctrination and brainwashing, not their true thinking and beliefs. Everyone actually believes in the Golden Rule and knows its importance and necessity in this world, since we all want others to do to us only what they would want done to themselves and not do to us what they wouldn't want done to themselves, which is the Golden Rule. To the extent that people live according to that rule, life works, and to the extent that they don't, life stops working! Not aborting the unborn is merely doing unto them as we would want others to do unto us, and so, of course, nobody actually is in favor of "pro-choice" or abortions, since we all know that that violates the Golden Rule that we want the rest of the time. So, we just have to be patient and keep working with these poor confused and clouded thinking "pro-choicers" and bring them back to their pro-life beliefs and who they really are! That is our responsibility and obligation of love toward these and all other lost people! They will thank us later for our intervention and work with them!

John D. Partin

Comment has been removed.

John D. Partin

I would greatly appreciate any honest and reasonable responses to the points and questions that I sent to "Wilson" in my 7 posts above to him, which he is unwilling or unable to give me. I'll be looking for to all such replies.

John D. Partin

"Wilson" and all who "think" as he does believe that their not being open to being convinced by something or fair-minded about it is the same as its "not being convincing", as it would be to all open-minded and fair-minded people, but it's obvious to the rest of us that they aren't the same thing at all. We just have to make allowances for such people and take into account their very low level of maturity, but they do need, seriously, to grow up!! All that we can do for such people is pray for them and wish them recovery from their problems as soon as possible --- for them.

John D. Partin

My wishes for you (I'm tired of saying your name every time, since you know your actual name and what you are by now!!) are ever so much warmer than you could ever be able to stand or want, forever, and it just doesn't get any warmer or hotter 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 than what I wish for you!!! And let's not wait until then, when it will be done perfectly and permanently, but give you some of that warmth and heat right now!! Yes, it was very therapeutic, as it always is, for me to send you those very very warm and burning hot wishes, and I'm certainly glad that you enjoy being told that you should definitely receive all that heat and are looking forward to it (a most unusual reaction for anyone's being told that they should be introduced to those blessings), but we will see whether you still feel that way when you receive them!!! In any case, I will continue to send you the very warmest and scaldingly and excruciatingly fiery wishes here and always!!! However, you haven't yet started on your own therapy of being honest about your own feelings and thoughts here and begin benefitting yourself in that way, too, and giving yourself part of those blessings that you should be getting for yourself!! So, do begin that self-therapy for yourself, too, as we all wish that you would do, since this therapy business is a two way street, not just a one way street. Good news for Trumpelstiltskin, in that he isn't still "President" for his ratings to drop any lower than they were before he got booted out of the White House, but the bad news is that his ratings since leaving the White House have continued to drop among all thinking people, which leaves you drones of his out of the picture!! I was rather looking forward to your guy's being kicked in the behind down the White House stairs on the news and out the front door and told to get the Hell out!!! (which would have been very excellent and helpful therapy for him, too, and for the country about him), but it is good therapy to get that out about him and feels very good!!! Your guy's ratings now can't get any worse...or can they?!! Again, don't be so obsessed against our dear President Joe Biden or for your guy, since that isn't at all conducive to your mental health. Write a longer post next time and start getting your own true feelings out and start working on yourself here or else keep your posts as they are and as short as possible!!

John D. Partin

Looking at all of your very short and evasive posts to others on this blog, and not just to me, in disagreement with all of our thoughts, I see that you seem to have some sort of "need" to do that, mainly because you aren't capable of doing anything else!! If that helps you in any way, since it's not helping anyone else, please continue.We all understand that that's the best that you can do. It's okay to "think" the way that you do because it's the best that you can do. That IS!! what this country is all about, freedom and liberty, but just because it's your right to do it doesn't make it your obligation and responsibility to do it, which is a much higher duty than merely the practice of basic rights. Hopefully, even you will understand that, someday.

John D. Partin

Your replies are parrotings of all your other evasive replies and show no original thought at all!!

Takaya Kovani Sweeney

I’d rather go into debt to help the working and middle class than to continue transferring our tax dollars into the hands of the pentagon, the greedy rich and corporations.

I don’t care who’s president.

John D. Partin

Cowardly Lion without a Heart, as usual with you conservatives, you define "myopia", as you do every other word, to suit yourselves and always only wrongly apply it to other people, instead of rightly to yourselves where it actually fits!! We have really gotten used to that during the 4 years of your guy's unrightful occupancy of the White House! The proof, if any more proof were needed, that you don't really know the difference between myopia and clearsightedness is that you were able to support that corrupt and self-centered fraud Trumpelstiltskin for 4 years and never wake up to the truth about him, despite his telling you right to your faces that he could kill somebody right out on the street and you idiots would still support him, showing all reasonable people (which leaves you out!!) how deservedly low an opinion he has about all of you, not to mention all of his other admissions about himself and actions that he committed right in front of you!! When people look in an encyclopedia under "myopia", they see a picture of Trumpophiles gathered together or, at least, would in any actually up-to-date, realistic, and honest encyclopedia!! For you or any other conservatives to call anyone else "myopic" is a case of the whole pot factory's calling a single kettle "black" and is further proof that you don't know what in the Hell you are talking about or your behinds from holes in the ground!! People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!! "First remove the beam from your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye". You aren't able to rightfully judge Biden as "myopic" over the last 9 months, considering your own actual myopia and wearing rose colored hallucinatory glasses for 4 years while looking at your guy!! If your guy set the guidelines for pulling out of Afghanistan by May, why did he wait until then and not implement them himself and get us out of Afghanistan sooner? It's because even he knew that he would have screwed it up even worse than what you are saying that Biden did and have left even more military hardware and weapons over there and have people saying even worse things about him!! So, he just shirked off his responsibility and left it to his successor, so that he would take the blame for any problems or mistakes. Nobody could have pulled us out of Afghanistan as quickly as we pulled out and needed to pull out after all these years, instead of continuing to put it off, without leaving large amounts of hardware and weapons behind. Certainly, not Trumpelstiltskin, as he knew very well!! He wasn't even a successful businessman and failed at everything and was left his money by his father, and screwed that up, too!! If he couldn't handle business, why would anyone (other than you, his hypnotized and brainwashed drones!!) think that he could run the country? Nobody did! His own staff and cabinet considered him an idiot, and they certainly were closer to him than you are and knew him much better than you do. His own niece Mary Trump and sister call him unfit to have held office, and they also know him much better than you do. What does your guy's unpopularity with everyone other than brainwashed Trumpophiles tell you about him or would tell you, except for your rose-colored hallucinatory glasses? The reality is that he wanted desperately to stay in the White House because, as President, he couldn't be prosecuted for his crimes, which is what he is facing now outside of the presidency, and will be sentenced for, if New York State has their way with him and anything to say about it! More proof of your blinders and myopia is that Obama produced his birth certificate many times and you, along with all other brainwashed people, still keep harping on that birther nonsense and delusion! You don't have a heart for immigrants, unless they are exactly the same as you and in your same economic and social condition, and not for people who are fleeing from gangs and terrorism and need help and asylum immediately, without going through the usual immigration process. That's like saying that there shouldn't be emergency rooms in hospitals, where people need immediate medical care, but, instead, gunshot victims or heart attack victims should just wait in the waiting room with everyone else and go through the usual admission procedure---and die while waiting!! These people at the border also needed immediate help and couldn't go through the normal admission process. So, special consideration has to be given to them, more than for you and other usual immigrants. That is how our country is supposed to work, as the sign on the Statue of Liberty says: "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to breathe free"! Or else tear down the Statue of Liberty and toss it into New York harbor, since it is a lie, if not actually put into practice!! This is all for you right now!!

John D. Partin

Cowardly Heartless Lion, I just mentioned all the things that you and all other conservatives are deluded about and, as usual, you take the focus off yourself and answering those indictments against you by trying to switch the attention to someone else! More proof of your cowardice!! Some things attributed to God might be (and probably are!) delusions on religious people's parts, but the existence of the Universe isn't a delusion! Nor is the fact that unintelligent matter and nature can't synchronize, coordinate, calibrate, and maintain it in functioning. That requires intelligence, and of a higher level than any human being has! The evidence for this "imaginary God" is all around you all the time and isn't responsible for your choosing to ignore it or "explain it all away" in your feeble and unsatisfactory manner! You do so because admitting that there is a God would put moral obligations and restrictions on you and you don't want any of that restriction of your "freedom" and "self-determination" and "sovereignty over the world"! Why are you so quick to see through some religious delusions, but so slow to (or just never do at all!) see through your guy's or conservatives' delusions or brainwashing of you and your ilk? You are as bad about all that as you claim that religious people are about their delusions and brainwashing because you are personally invested in your delusions and brainwashing, just as they are in theirs, and can't free yourself or be freed from any of that without denying your own sense of identity, the same as they can't.

John D. Partin

Cowardly Heartless Lyin'!! I have tried twice to get my posts published here by ULC, but they must have felt that I was being too condescending and patronizing toward you, in response to your condescension and patronizing attitude toward me at the end of your post here and really throughout it (evidently, alright for you to do toward me, but not alright to do to you in return). But I really don't want or need to stoop to your level of condescension and patronizing as a means of evading answering questions and points in a post. Go ahead and get that out, if it helps you, and you reply back to me. I understand that you can't help being as you are. Have you considered your guy's very low approval ratings during his "presidency", as stated online by USA Today, Gallup News, and NBC News? The only people who were satisfied by Trumpelstiltskin's performance in office were all of his hypnotized and brainwashed drones, such as yourself, who never thought and still don't think (and I could actually leave it at that!!) that he ever did or does anything wrong. Think about that, as far as you are able to do so, before you start talking about anything that you "think" that Joe Biden has done wrong. Your guy never actually answered any questions at all and was too busy arguing with and insulting reporters to have time to do that, and left press conferences early in order to avoid answering reporters' questions, because why would he have to be responsive or responsible to the American people, right? He spent his time watching TV and tweeting in the Executive mansion and playing golf and vacationing at Mar a Lago because that is what he was "elected" to do, right? Again, think as hard as you are able to about all of that before you make any comments about Joe Biden's performance at press conferences, since he, at least, stays to the end for them and is never going to satisfy you conservatives, anyway, no matter how well he did, because you will always find something to complain about, in order to get Trumpelstiltskin or another Republican back in the White House in 2024. You couldn't even seriously try to do that, if you gave Joe Biden a fair chance and didn't pounce on him over everything!! I understand all of that when I read your posts to me and know that you can't help being as you are, and "thought" that you were doing the right thing by voting for your guy, and that you meant well, anyway. You "thought" that you "gave it a lot of thought" when you voted for him. We understand. You are probably having a lot of struggle with and doubts over your choice of him now after his being impeached twice and all of his other admissions about himself, and clearing protesters out of a park just so that he could have a photo op in front of a church whose pastor didn't want him there, and other actions that he committed while in office. This might possibly help you with your dilemma, if you say "Right on, Mary Trump!! You go, girl!!!".

John D. Partin

Greetings again Minister Wilson. You fail to recognize the inherent hypocrisy and illogic of people whose very existence depended on their mothers' not aborting them saying that other people's mothers should abort them and doing unto those unborn children what was not done to you! That isn't doing unto others as you would have others do unto you. That may not be your pseudo-sophisticated and pseudo-intellectual version of "religion" or "morality", but it is just basic logic, common sense, and moral teaching. Unaborted people can't consistently or reasonably state that other people should be aborted. It's a self-contradictory position for you or anyone to take. Life doesn't begin only at birth because without this period of preparation before birth, if it is cut short, birth can't happen, and so everyone, including you, have to respect that preparatory stage of life in others, the same as it was respected for you You believe that only human laws should matter in this case of a woman's rights over her body, while condemning, as I do, other unjust human laws throughout history, but once you have opened that door of only human laws' deciding our actions or mattering, you can't, then, pick and choose which laws you will have because you like them and which you won't have because you don't like them, since the door has been opened for all of them indiscriminately. When Pandora's box is opened, everything is coming out! There are people who want with all their hearts to have these children that other people are rejecting and no shortage of homes and loving parents for those children. So, give those unwanted children to those parents. We even do that much for puppies and kittens and give them to other people when we can't take care of them ourselves, and don't abort them in their mothers' wombs. Why don't unborn children deserve as much as, if not far more than, we do for puppies and kittens? Abortion, clearly, doesn't only concern the woman's body because a body inside her body isn't her body. If she should be able to do whatever she wants with that other body inside her just because it is dependent on her for life, then, consistently and following this "logic", she should be able to do whatever she wants with born children outside of her body, since they are also dependent on her for life, and kill them, too, if she wants and they are a burden or inconvenience for her. As did Susan Smith, I believe, in Texas, who drowned her children in a lake by driving her truck into it with them inside and blamed a black man for the crime. Or other mothers who have killed born children. That is the Pandora's box that we open by saying that women's rights over their bodies or those who are dependent on them supercede those persons' rights or all other rights. The definition of freedom in all other cases is that you have the right to do whatever you wish until you impose upon another person or interfere with their rights. Abortion definitely exceeds the limits of that definition, since it imposes upon the right of the unborn to life and interferes with that right, which is the most basic right of all and that upon which all other rights are founded. The world's not being perfect is our doing by our doing whatever is "right" in our own eyes and ignoring God and what He wants, since God is love, as the Scripture says. That isn't God's fault, since He isn't going to force people to do right and stop doing what is wrong, and make that decision for us and contradict free will. The death penalty for those who have murdered other people is just giving them back what they gave to other people, but abortion is murdering innocent unborn children, and so there is no reasonable comparison between the two. Yet, even capital punishment for murderers should be reconsidered in a consistently pro-life society. Why would the State of Texas rely on deputies or deputized citizens to enforce constitutional laws? Why are law enforcement required to enforce any laws? Because they won't be enforced without them! That's why!

John D. Partin

"Minister" Wilson. I'm not at all struggling with the concepts that you presented, but actually understand them far better than you do! You yourself advocate the Golden Rule when you say that we should put ourselves in pregnant women's positions, who don't want to give birth, and ask what would we want done for us in their positions. That sounds incredibly close to "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you" or will pass for it until it actually comes along! So, are you also practicing a form of "ethical reductionism" by asking that question and making the assumption that we should just go along with you on that or is the Golden Rule part of your thinking process, too, and just fairness and common sense to everyone, including you? It certainly sounds like the latter! The world is imperfect because of people's not practicing the Golden Rule of doing unto others as they would have others do unto them and loving their neighbors as themselves.The solution to that isn't to give up practicing the Golden Rule and loving our neighbors as ourselves altogether as "unrealistic", but to practice them even more! That isn't emotional thinking, but obviously reasonable thinking, since it is the only solution for the world's hatefulness, as even you really know, though you don't admit it! Racists should do unto others as they would have others do unto them, as should muggers, serial killers, wife and child beaters and abusers, and all other criminals, and not lynch or discriminate against black people or hate all white people or do these other things that they wouldn't want done to them. Besides, abortion isn't the only option for a woman's getting rid of a pregnancy that she doesn't want, since there is also embryonic transplant and taking the fetus from a woman who doesn't want it and putting it into a woman who does want it. When even heart transplants and kidney transplants and other organ transplants can happen, fetus transplants can also happen (and have already happened). That way, the unborn child doesn't have to die just because it was conceived in a woman who wants to kill it and she gets to be rid of it from her womb and a woman who will love and care for the child gets to have it! Problem solved for everyone! When an embryonic transplant isn't possible, she should just put up with the pregnancy and give the child up for adoption the second that it is born and think about someone other than herself, for a change.

Minister Wilson

Greetings Mr. Partin,

So, you have chosen an ideological spin...

Suicide, drug usage, cult membership, or espionage have nothing to do with a person’s right to autonomy. I appreciate your perspective because it reveals a lot more about how you think. It appears that in your mind, women are, for the most part, second-class citizens that should not have absolute autonomy over their body or any control over their choices for what would be best for them.

Each of your examples, John, could be applied to any person irrespective of their sex.

You fail to consider the mental health aspects encompassing suicide, which is also related to drug dependence (Corsini & Wedding, 2014). Cult membership is based on the in-group and outgroup dynamics, which can be seen today in many religious and political supporters.

Therefore, if we were to apply your common sense and rational manner, John, no one has absolute rights over their own body or agency over their own choices, and that would include any unborn humans...

You seem to think that writing the words common sense and rationality somehow makes everything you’re saying make sense. As I stated before, whataboutisms must provide circumstances that are sufficiently similar (Aikin, 2008). You have not come close to accomplishing this.

Thus, it leads us back to the beginning. So, using your logic, you do not have absolute rights over your own body and do not have any agency over your own choices also, so what gives John Partin the right to speak on this subject now, especially when you are naturally immune from ever being pregnant?

Take care,

Minister Wilson

References

Aikin, S. F. (2008). Tu quoque arguments and the significance of hypocrisy. Informal Logic, 28(2), 155–169. https://doi.org/10.22329/il.v28i2.543

Corsini, R. J., & Wedding, D. (2014). Current Psychotherapies 10th Edition. Belmont, CA: Cengage Learning.

Minister Wilson

Mr. Partin

For goodness sake...

Your writings are simply silly and have nothing to do with the Texas law issue, and your ramblings do not have anything to do with the legal right to have an abortion.

Please answer the questions.

If the Texas law was legitimately a defense for the unborn, why would the state rely on deputized citizens to enforce constitutional laws?

Please explain how you as a woman (John) would feel about your place in such a society being forced to carry a human baby to term?

Would you have rights over your bodily autonomy?

What class of citizen would you be?

Are you being punished for being a woman and having sex?

Thus, it leads us back to the beginning. So, using your logic, you do not have absolute rights over your own body and do not have any agency over your own choices also, so what gives John Partin the right to speak on this subject now, especially when you are naturally immune from ever being pregnant?

You do not seem capable to answer these simple questions; therefore, it is no wonder the issue and concepts elude you.

There is no unborn Holocaust, John. And if so, then your God has killed, allowed, or is entirely powerless to stop billions of human embryos, zygotes, and fetuses from suffering “murderous” miscarriages.

I will no longer respond to intellectual dribble, and you have had several attempts to make your case, so either make your point or kindly move on...

Take care,

Minister Wilson

John D. Partin

"Minister Wilson", why do you only have any concern at all for some women's "right" to murder their unborn children (and the semantics and euphemisms of what you call it don't matter, but only the act itself!), but absolutely no concern, compassion, sympathy or mercy for those 63 million exterminated unborn children since Roe v. Wade? Doesn't that appear, even to you with your deadened conscience, to be very disproportionately unbalanced and lopsided, when these children have thousands of times more at stake in this matter and have been subjected to far more cruelty and barbarity than have any of these women that you favor over them?!! Has it occurred at all to you that your same kind of deadened conscience and amorality are what allowed the Nazis to murder 6 million Jews and all the other people that they murdered without any qualms or disturbance to them at all, and what allowed white slavemasters to buy and sell other human beings and humiliate and torture and kill them if they displeased them, and allowed slave traders to capture and sell millions of these human beings, and allowed white racists to lynch black people and burn down their homes and churches and discriminate against them for four hundred years?!! And has allowed all the other examples of man's inhumanity to man or does your deadened conscience keep you from understanding, seeing, and admitting to all of that?!! You and all the other people here who share your view about abortion and indifference to the unborn children's deaths and misery?!! How, then, are all of you people any different than all of these other amoral and conscienceless people who have committed or condoned all of these other atrocities in history?!! What more will it ever take to get through to you the immorality and the deadened conscience state of your position and attitude than was ever said or done to these other people, and it still didn't get through to them?!! What will it ever take to wake you up?!! If even seeds for growing vegetables on farms or flowers were put into the ground, and then immediately dug up again and not given the chance to start growing, what sense would that make and how would we ever have the vegetables or flowers from those seeds? But that is the practice when it comes to seeds of men planted in women's wombs and not allowing them to grow and be born, and makes no more sense than digging up seeds for vegetables and flowers just planted and not allowing them to grow!! Why shouldn't unborn children be given even more consideration than we give to vegetable or flower seeds and be allowed to be born? We wouldn't care if seeds in the ground were planted by rapists or incestuous men, since that has nothing to do with the seeds themselves, and it has nothing to do with the seeds in women's wombs, either!! Fortunately, for our having vegetables in the stores to buy and eat and flowers to buy and put in vases, the seeds for them aren't put into some women's wombs, if they could grow them safely inside them, or we would very quickly have a major shortage of these vegetables and flowers, due to these women's aborting them, too, because of their discomfort and inconvenience. Aborting the unborn for those or other health reasons makes no more sense!!

John D. Partin

Mr, Wilson, since "Minister" doesn't fit you at all and just anyone who wants to call himself or herself a "minister" and be called such hasn't earned that title just by wanting that, but has to actually demonstrate, in more than their own or flunkies' eyes, ministerial behavior and thinking. Pro-choice is inconsistent with an actual minister. For you or anyone to say that the pro-life movement is a farce just because people in it don't all agree is insane and ridiculous, since no group anywhere is without differing opinions and agendas within it! By your standard, the pro-choice movement would also be hypocritical and about reductionist values, since it isn't a monolith or everyone in lockstep there, either. As long as our central focus is about saving the lives of unborn children, no matter what other things some people in our movement want to promote, the pro-life movement isn't hypocritical or about reductionist values, anymore than you are! That's just being human, not hypocritical. You can play all the semantic games about what abortion is and it's "not being a Holocaust" that you want, just as the Nazis played those same games during their Holocaust of the Jews by calling the concentration camps "districts of Jewish relocation", while you call abortion clinics "health centers" and abortion "women's reproductive health and rights". But those are only games that you are playing with yourselves, since the babies are still just as dead after those atrocities, no matter what you call them!! It doesn't stop being a Holocaust just because you are a Holocaust denier of that Holocaust on the unborn, just as Nazis are Holocaust deniers of their Holocaust of the Jews!! You can very easily prove to yourself if bodies do any thinking on their own, apart from the brains inside their heads, by going to your local morgue and seeing if there are any bodies of deceased people walking around there when their brains have died. Unless you are living in a horror movie, there are no dead bodies thinking for themselves and moving around on their own. So, they are unthinking, while the brain is alive, too, since only the brain does any thinking, though we could never tell that from you and your pro-choice ilk!! Your not figuring out for yourself that only the brain thinks, while the body is unthinking, is more evidence of your not understanding basic forms of logic. You also need to learn how to spell "nuances", which isn't spelled "nuisances", even if you have more experience, being stuck with yourself all the time, with nuisances than anything else!! Once again, God isn't responsible for what unthinking bodies or unthinking nature does, since they are corrupt and not following His will, and isn't going to stop them from doing wrong or force them to do right, anymore than He will for people, since that would be His deciding for them, instead of them deciding for themselves. You yourself only think in black and white, as you accuse me of doing, when you say that a woman's only options, if giving birth might result in her death, is either die herself or kill the child. But I have already told you about the third option of embryonic transplants, which would allow both the mother and the child to live. No child should have to die because it was conceived in a woman who wants to kill it, when it can be transferred to a woman who will love it and care for it. How can you condemn. me or anyone else for "black and white or either/or thinking" when you are doing that yourself?!! This also answers your question to me about what I would say to my mother if she told me that her giving birth would kill her, and I say this to all women in that situation: get your baby embryonically transplanted into another woman of the same blood type. Problem solved!!! And nobody has to die for it and such transplants have already been done. You are the one who isn't capable of a serious conversation here, as your not understanding that bodies don't think on their own and other obvious and logical things here prove!! Unborn babies are also human beings, the same as born human beings are. They shouldn't have to pay with their lives because of how they were conceived (through rape, incest, etc.), since that isn't their fault and shouldn't be taken out on them!! Perhaps, one day keep working on it, admitting to more of your Nazi attitude toward the unborn and more balanced thinking, which includes the unborn and not just born people!! Here's hoping that you will get there!!

flugo

'do spin': Sorry. Again, you fail miserably to reply to my above request. I didn't ask for your experiences, your opinions, your inane blather. I just want the specific Biblical references as requested.