eviction notice signed by god
Dave Ramsey thinks tenants might be “screwed in the brain” for expecting cheap rent from Christian landlords.

Are you a bad Christian if you raise the rent so high it makes your tenants homeless? Christian financial guru Dave Ramsey says no.

Ramsey is the host of The Ramsey Show, a popular radio program focused on finance from a Christian perspective. On the January 3rd episode, Ramsey and his co-hosts took a question from a Christian landlord who was having second thoughts on raising rents to match the local market, or keep rent low so as not to cause hardship or even homelessness to his tenants.

As the landlord stated, “I did not get into real estate to subsidize people's living expenses, but I also didn't get into real estate to displace families either.”

Ramsey – himself a landlord – came down on the side of the marketplace, arguing in favor of raising rents and that doing so doesn’t make you a bad Christian, if anything, it makes you market savvy.

But many on social media objected to the comments, arguing that raising rent and displacing a family when you have the financial means not to isn’t exactly what Jesus would do.

Does raising rent make you a bad Christian?

The Rent is Too D*mn High

“I own rental property – single-family homes – among many other properties that we own, and if I raise my rent to be market rate, that does not make me a bad Christian,” Ramsey stated on-air in response to the initial question. “I did not displace the person out of that house if they can no longer afford it. The marketplace did. The economy did. The ratio of the income that they earned to their housing expense displaced them. I didn’t cause any of that.”

He then suggested that tenants might be “screwed in the brain” for expecting cheap rent from Christian landlords.

Still, Ramsey pointed out that he manages his properties with “a head and a heart,” stating that in the past he ultimately decided not to evict a tenant with cancer who was undergoing chemotherapy and struggling financially. He encouraged those raising rents to act compassionately when having that difficult conversation with tenants.

What Would Jesus Charge

Many social media users were outraged, arguing that just because you can raise rent, doesn’t mean you should. And some pointed out potential conflicts between raising rent and Jesus’s message.

Can unbridled capitalism and Christian principles even coexist? As one Twitter user stated, “from a business/financial standpoint, he’s not wrong. But, from a Christian (who’s super wealthy) standpoint, ‘give to the needy’ is supposed to be his thinking.. I think..”

Others pointed out the particular hardships some renters are under now. The COVID pandemic has massively changed the market, pushing many to unemployment and saddling thousands with medical bills. Many pondered: Is pricing people out of their rental homes right now the Christian thing to do?

What do you think – is raising rent good business, or greedy? Would Jesus raise the rent on struggling tenants?

89 comments

  1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

    Yes they are. They should be providing housing to everyone in need. That's what is says in the Bible.

    1. Reverend Gary's Avatar Reverend Gary

      This is how you have acquired your residence? Someone gave it to you for free?

      No one wants other humans to wallow in their belief they are poor and cannot afford the things they need to survive in their lives. Each individual is responsible for their own beliefs, their own situation, their own “poorness” and if you do not want to be “poor” do something about it, it is your own responsibility. There is no law, decree, understanding, etc., that stipulates that a person is supposed to facilitate, support, enable, empower, another individual’s dysfunctional behavior, beliefs, etc., that maintain that individual in their “poor” beliefs. You are what you think. So think abundance, “what goes around comes around.” No one can change how another thinks, you must do this yourself. If you think you are “poor” you will be. If you think you can “walk on water,” you can, just ask Jesus.

      1. Paul Steven Lyke's Avatar Paul Steven Lyke

        I agree that our thoughts create reality, so when the poor stand up for their human rights to reasonable housing, healthcare, and wages...the rich and powerful retaliate to squash, evict, and legislate against them. That is the point. The rich do not want everyone prosperous, otherwise they will have to clean up their own ****, piss, and pubes off the toilet bowl like everyone else. You are defending a corrupted system of exchange, one that separates operators from owners. You can't have billions of poor people suddenly "starting a business" and become millionaires who live off their portfolio dividends. You defend a system of "filthy lucre" at the expense of the labor that created the wealth. The laws are created to enforce a system of inequality. You call yourself a pastor? A servant of humanity? Then start acting like it.

        1. Reverend Gary's Avatar Reverend Gary

          Would it not be more expedient, serve a much longer purpose for the “poor”, rather than having the “poor” assign the responsibility of their being “poor” to someone else, and have those representatives, who do not have the same vested interest as those “poor” people, " . . . stand up for their human rights to reasonable housing, healthcare, and wages . . ." take the responsibility to learn for themselves how to shed the perception of being “poor” and do something to become abundant, wealthy, rich in all respects? Would this not last longer? Would not the children of these “poor” learn to be responsible for themselves, to rise to the challenges they will face in their lives beyond this one singular issue? By providing a temporary fix to a long term problem, how are you facilitating the “poor” to have a lifelong character to think for themselves, to think into the future years and have the ability to solve minor challenges and grow onward?

          How to you teach your children to solve a problem, have them come to you for a solution? Have them go to some government agency to offer a short term fix? Give them a fix?

          Or do you teach your children to think for themselves and facilitate their ability to fend for themselves, develop their own solutions to life's challenges, enabling their ability to develop a much more individually suitably better, much longer term solution to their challenges? Something they can use into their future, something you cannot foresee?

      2. Brian Scott Hoff's Avatar Brian Scott Hoff

        You sound like a person that believes what you were taught to believe. Many people are that way and all of us are to some extent. I might suggest listening to Sam Harris's videos about self-determination. Or, Veritaseum's vid about "Success". Many people balk at these messages. Even I can sense my struggle. But, very few people have a compelling response to what these videos propose. Why are our journey's so different? Did we actually make choices or were choices made that we are unaware of? If I consider myself successful can I claim a lot of credit for it or not? This talk makes a lot of people uncomfortable, perhaps even angry. But attempts to refute some of the points made don't come easy. Some attempts are even illogical. Yet, people hold onto some beliefs with a strong passion even when evidence to the contrary is shown to them.

        1. William Dusenberry's Avatar William Dusenberry

          Those who self-Identify as Christians, when asked what they believe, usually begin answering by telling the questioner: “I believe in Jesus” to which (if the questioner is me) i ask the follow up question: “why?”

          Then after a few questions more, that all self-identifying Christians eventually are compelled to admit — that they believe in Jesus — because their parents did (do);and so does everyone else in their tribe.

          An honest Christian should therefore answer all “what do you believe-type questions by answering “I personally didn’t come up with any ideas about anything involving belief, I merely have accepted, what everyone else in my tribe believe — and, that’s that.

        2. Reverend Gary's Avatar Reverend Gary

          Actually, Brian, this has nothing to do with religion or even spirituality. It has to do with how you think, how strongly you feel about these feelings, what you think, what you have been taught directly, what you have learned from your parents, relatives, friends. Anyone that was or could have been an influence on your thinking. All our lives we are inundated with, "do you think money grows on trees?" "We can't afford that we're poor." "How do you expect to pay for that?" "You can't buy that on your meager pitiful salary." "The rich get richer, the poor get poorer." Or any number of millions of programming concepts that hinder and block our ability to develop a solution to drawing abundance, wealth, or anything else into our lives. If your give it some thought, each and every one of you can come up with several of these hindering programming sayings or thoughts that you have heard, (and repeated to your children!) all your lives. Being able to achieve ANYTHING begins with a thought and a feeling associated with that thought!

          If anyone is interested in learning more about this and research this further, search for the Law of Attraction.

  1. Ralph A. Lawrence's Avatar Ralph A. Lawrence

    Keep in mind that a rental property owner has this apartment as an investment that provides his own living. The owner took a piece of their own money and bought the property, which is a risk, like any enterprise, just like a store owner or anything else. A retail store is not a charity, and neither is a rental property. The customer (renter) has signed on to an obligation: pay the rent, and in turn receive a place to live. In other words it's a two way street. Just like buying a car. Skip the payments, and you lose the car. Pure and simple. Free enterprise people (owners of any business) are not operating charities. Certainly, they are free to be charitable, and society and government provides for "charitable deductions". However, a property owner is not "required" to be charitable; only to be guided by their conscience. And further, there are often circumstances that drive an owner to evict a tenant, particularly abuse of the privilege. It really depends on the specific case. But this question seems to be condemning an owner without knowing the circumstances. (This reply by a former apartment owner and also a Christian). I dispute whether a Christian is under any different ethical obligation than any other individual, regardless of their religion or lack of same.

    1. Charles Leroy Good II's Avatar Charles Leroy Good II

      Raising rent is justified if your expenses, taxes or even GDP have increased. Raising rent significantly for your current renters just because the market will be bear it is not justifiable from a Christian value perspective; this is opportunistic and greedy. I was touched that Ramsey once helped one renter stricken with cancer. However Ramsey's perspective that market dictates price is not justifiable; he is just hiding his greed behind his ideology.

      1. Brian Scott Hoff's Avatar Brian Scott Hoff

        I am an atheist but I would say you nailed it. Ramsey makes pretty big statements about his Christianity, how it molds him & his business. Yet, if one reads the Bible, I do not know how one can justify "what the market will bear" as being Christ-like. I've read it more than a few times. It seems pretty clear what it is saying about profit, wealth, the haves & have nots, and the expectations placed upon those with more. If he did not include his Christianity in his public persona then I would say he's doing what business people do (even if I think it's a path to a bad outcome). But, he does include his religion in his description of himself and claims it guides him. Then no... that book & his thought process are not aligned. Twist like a pretzel to make yourself feel better seems like his mantra.

    2. Reverend Kurt's Avatar Reverend Kurt

      Having worked in real estate a lifetime and more, ago, I concur absolutely with what you have said. Rentals are a business decision and religion is not normally within a tenancy contract , at least not yet in Australia.

      1. Ilmenheru Terikson's Avatar Ilmenheru Terikson

        If someone wants to be a true follower of the Messiah then actually no they may never put personal profit first for any reason ever. Profit has another name, greed. Greed is one of the 7 sins core to christian faith. As is gluttony also known as land hoarding. A true christian never has more then they themselves have personal immediate need for.

        As a minister in good standing, I use all that I have to help others, and live as humbly as I can. Such is how all must live if the human race is to cease being a blight upon the world.

        Keep in mind no non native person in the U.S. has any right to any land. Every bit of it was seized in the same manner the Nazi seized land in Europe. Unless you think the Nazi had a right to kill and conquer, you have to apply the same pov to what was done in the americas. This means quite literally every land hoarder in the U.S. is just like the nazis who got away with stolen wealth and vanished into countries eager to take that money and the science of that evil faction.

        1. Reverend Gary's Avatar Reverend Gary

          Owning a rental property is a business. Costs for owning, maintaining and upgrading any business property will go up. Those costs will be reflected in the cost to rent the property. A property owner who does not maintain and upgrade their property will eventually loose their investment and go bankrupt.

          No one wants other humans to wallow in their belief they are poor and cannot afford the things they need to survive in their lives. Each individual is responsible for their own beliefs, their own situation, their own “poorness” and if you do not want to be “poor” do something about it, it is your own responsibility. There is no law, decree, understanding, etc., that stipulates that a person is supposed to facilitate, support, enable, empower, another individual’s dysfunctional behavior, beliefs, etc., that maintain that individual in their “poor” beliefs. You are what you think. So think abundance, “what goes around comes around.” Viktor Frankl, author of, “Man’s Search for Meaning,” knows very well, no one can change how another thinks, you must do this yourself. If you think you are “poor” you will be. If you think you can “walk on water,” you can, just ask Jesus.

          Dave Ramsey started his business in the garage of his home. He has gone broke at least once, lost it all. Started over again. He thinks abundance, wealth, well being, and he feels deeply about having all these wonderful abundant things in his life. His business today employs hundreds if not thousands of other people. You don’t do that thinking you are poor. Do you want to be poor or rich? Do you want to have a poor, poverty plagued life or do you want to have an abundantly wealthy life in all areas of your life? Good news! YOU get to choose. Start by listening to Dave Ramsey every day on the radio. You can get inspired and begin to think rich! Watch the DVD titled, “The Secret,” get the book of the same title, both produced by Rhonda Byrne. Go to her web site, TheSecret.tv and you can read about thousands of normal, ordinary people who have made monumental and even miraculous changes in their lives. It is all about how your think and how you feel. YOU CHOOSE.

          1. Jeffrey Stoecker's Avatar Jeffrey Stoecker

            What is this -- the year 2049 of the Roman Empire? This post could have been created by person raised in a world where Jesus was never born. He has to have had an effect on you, or you're... what? A person who made a faith declaration and now thinks they're saved, no matter what they do, as long as everybody else is doing it? IMO, being a Christian entails forcing a new dynamic into being. Otherwise, Jesus died for NOTHING.

            This isn't directed at you personally. I just got to this point reading and felt disgusted at the spew from the mindset you share with many others.

            1. Reverend Gary's Avatar Reverend Gary

              Those of us who are advancing humanity cannot cause others to think differently, we can only show the way. If you choose not to go into the future, that is your choice, which I unconditionally support with all my love. There have been many and there will be many more who will see their way to the future. You will too . . . .

  1. William Dusenberry's Avatar William Dusenberry

    Landlords — land lords — are way down on the list, of those who should be charged with Blasphemy— because they mislead the public, whenever they miscategorize themselves as Christians.

    The worst non-Christians, who advertise themselves as Christians, are all the MAGA-A GOP Senators and Congresspersons, who refuse to make rent-forgivenesss, or rent deferment, the federal governments responsibility— just as food stamps and Medicaid are — and what the mythological Jesus might have advocated, that is if this mythological Roman creation ever wanted to help the poor in the first place.

    Read “In God We Trust” to review the GOP’s ongoing efforts, to switch former GOP White Christian Nationalists, from those who used to just pretend to care for the poor (the ones unable to pay their rent) to “Jesus only pays the rent, for the poor who are likely Trump cultist voters — and you’ll get a better idea of what’s happening.

    The USA should have rent stamps (as in food stamps) so that all taxpayers help the poor during their lengthy times of need — not just the landlords as it is now.

    Call your supposed to be Christian Senator/Congressperson, and ask them to do so — and anticipate the contempt such officials have for helping anyone — whose not already a member of their White Nationalist Christian tribe.

    Christian Evangelists of todY, have totallyvabandoned any pretenses of helping the poor — becausedoing so is Communistic/socialism.

    The MAGA Christian White Nationalist misogynistic homophobic Christians of today’s Christian/GOP now follows in lockstep “The Christian Lord only helps those who help themselves” (unless they had the good sense to be born into wealthy families.).

    1. Elliott Zelenak's Avatar Elliott Zelenak

      rent stamps is the most Jesus-like comment out of everyone one of these comments. everyone else justifies things that hurt people who make a minimum wage that hasn’t been raised in 20 years. jesus woukd have hated the landlord speculators and those looking to make income just from property, and haven’t worked a minimum wage job in the past 10 years. thank you for understanding the plight of the poor

  1. Gerardo Salazar's Avatar Gerardo Salazar

    The USA were founded and have continued a culture in which the concepts of Wealth, Income, and Power reign supreme without consideration to moral or humanitarian issues thus creating horrible episodes like the mistreatment and eventual exploration of Native American, the birth of Robber Barons, etc, a fact that that still lives today and as a palpable example we have the lack of social medical care for poor people so the fact of increasing rents in a wild race should not be surprising for anyone. Officially the US.is a country based on Christian values but reality tells otherwise.

    Remember Matthew 7:16?

    “By their deeds you will know them. Does a man gather grapes from thorns or figs from briars?”

    1. Reverend Kurt's Avatar Reverend Kurt

      The same is all too true in Australia. We don't have a bill of rights under the any constitution, Our indigenous people suffer the most because they are most easily exploited

  1. Angel's Avatar Angel

    Depends on the situation and what the landlord is doing. Landlords are getting greedy and raising prices according to bigger buissnesses which is creating a huge housing crisis. I understand that many are trying to make up for the free loader's during the pandemic, but it's also making it impossible for people to find affordable housing. It's a difficult situation but at the end of the day, each person must be able to look at themselves in the mirror. If your looking at a Christian perspective, and following Jesus example, he didn't own anything accept what he made through his carpentry job.Since the world demands we make money to survive, it's up to the individual to decide what is fair and what crosses the line into greed. Just because everyone else does, doesn't always mean you should.

  1. Angel's Avatar Angel

    Depends on the situation and what the landlord is doing. Landlords are getting greedy and raising prices according to bigger buissnesses which is creating a huge housing crisis. I understand that many are trying to make up for the free loader's during the pandemic, but it's also making it impossible for people to find affordable housing. It's a difficult situation but at the end of the day, each person must be able to look at themselves in the mirror. If your looking at a Christian perspective, and following Jesus example, he didn't own anything accept what he made through his carpentry job.Since the world demands we make money to survive, it's up to the individual to decide what is fair and what crosses the line into greed. Just because everyone else does, doesn't always mean you should.

  1. John P Maher's Avatar John P Maher

    NO, THEY ARE GREEDY SELF SERVING BLOOD SUCKKKERS LIKE ALL THE RICH CORPORATIONS !

    1. Reverend Gary's Avatar Reverend Gary

      A most eloquent dissertation regarding those people who have worked to increase their income. I was quite lost in the depth of details you provided, but I managed to read it to the end.

      Owning a rental property is a business. Costs for owning, maintaining and upgrading any business property will go up. Those costs will be reflected in the cost to rent the property. A property owner who does not maintain and upgrade their property will eventually loose their investment and go bankrupt.

      No one wants other humans to wallow in their belief they are poor and cannot afford the things they need to survive in their lives. Each individual is responsible for their own beliefs, their own situation, their own “poorness” and if you do not want to be “poor” do something about it, it is your own responsibility. There is no law, decree, understanding, etc., that stipulates that a person is supposed to facilitate, support, enable, empower, another individual’s dysfunctional behavior, beliefs, etc., that maintain that individual in their “poor” beliefs. You are what you think. So think abundance, “what goes around comes around.” Viktor Frankl, author of, “Man’s Search for Meaning,” knows very well, no one can change how another thinks, you must do this yourself. If you think you are “poor” you will be. If you think you can “walk on water,” you can, just ask Jesus.

      Dave Ramsey started his business in the garage of his home. He has gone broke at least once, lost it all. Started over again. He thinks abundance, wealth, well being, and he feels deeply about having all these wonderful abundant things in his life. His business today employs hundreds if not thousands of other people. You don’t do that thinking you are poor. Do you want to be poor or rich? Do you want to have a poor, poverty plagued life or do you want to have an abundantly wealthy life in all areas of your life? Good news! YOU get to choose. Start by listening to Dave Ramsey every day on the radio. You can get inspired and begin to think rich! Watch the DVD titled, “The Secret,” get the book of the same title, both produced by Rhonda Byrne. Go to her web site, TheSecret.tv and you can read about thousands of normal, ordinary people who have made monumental and even miraculous changes in their lives. It is all about how your think and how you feel. YOU CHOOSE.

      1. John P Maher's Avatar John P Maher

        YEAH GARY and YOU THINKKK LIKE A G O Pig !

        1. Reverend Gary's Avatar Reverend Gary

          Once more such eloquent soliloquy John however I am saddened Mr. John P Maher, you have been detailed and quite specific about your side of this issue and how you feel about that. I have quite enjoyed your comments and I know that as I mentioned, Viktor Frankl, the author of the book, “Man’s Search for Meaning,” knows very well, no one can change how another thinks, that only the person who is thinking their thoughts knows what those thoughts are. No one else can make them think any differently nor can they know what that person is thinking so in this respect, John, you are wrong, very wrong. You cannot know what anyone else is thinking.

        2. Reverend Gary's Avatar Reverend Gary

          Sometimes, Dear John, I am challenged by your most eloquent dissertation and become quite lost in the depth of details you provided, case in point, the group of letters or words taken from the full version of the word or phrase you are describing is of a term I am not familiar. I understand if you are upset or impatient with my lack in this regard but I really am trying to comprehend. Could you elaborate on your abbreviation, ". . .A G O P I G. . . .?" Thank you so very much in providing this information, dear Sir.

  1. Reverend Kurt's Avatar Reverend Kurt

    Rentals are an investment decision. The majority of investors want to keep their tenants, ensuring a continual return. The investor has to pay for maintenance, government charges and fees associated with the rental property. It is a fact of life that expenses do increase. These expenses need to be passed on. Sure there are a minority of predatory investors out for a quick buck, that is life. Consider this:- The larger businesses and corporations raise their prices constantly, not for any religious, moral or ethical reasons, but purely for profit. Yet we accept these price rises as a matter of course, but balk at the small time rental investor who, as a whole, does have moral and ethical standards.

    1. Brian Scott Hoff's Avatar Brian Scott Hoff

      If the small time guy increases his rent but not due to costs or more than cost adjustments then how is that different than your point about what "big" business does? I see no difference there. Add in that Ramsy openly discusses his Christianity then how can he not be called out for it?

  1. John P Maher's Avatar John P Maher

    IN GOD YOU TRUST MEANWHILE the CORPORATIONS and YOUR GOVERNMENT STEAL your COUNTRY, MONEY, LIFE, SUCKKKING YOUR BLOOD, GREED is the WORD, GREED !

    1. Reverend Gary's Avatar Reverend Gary

      Gotta tell ya John your verbosity is overwhelming much less so than the high pitched screeching from the 140 dB high frequency of your channel. Is that just the background noise causing that?

      1. John P Maher's Avatar John P Maher

        REV. GARY PUT COTTON in YER EARs and MOUTH, the OPINION is on JESUS, WHO THRASHED the SELLERS for SELLING on THE SABBATH in the CHURCH, CORPORATIONS a nd GREED ! OH BY THE WAY GARY MAYBE if YOU SCREAMED @ YOUR GOVERNMENT and GAVE THEM an OPINION the WORLD COULD BE A BETTER PLACE, BIG MOUTH !

        1. Reverend Gary's Avatar Reverend Gary

          Dear John, you get many Dear John letters, John? Never mind, it was just a funny thing I thought of.

          So, putting cotton in my ears and my mouth will make it easier for you to comprehend what I’m writing, correct? OK . . . that’s what I thought.

          And I did not realize this was about Jesus, who you say was selling something, on Sunday, in the church, representing some kind of corporation, and that greed was involved somehow? Can I presume that you were there watching as Jesus was selling something, in the church hear where you were standing, on that Sunday, that somehow you could see the corporate representatives there as well, and that it was obvious there was greed involved somehow? Dear John, you must be quite old that was over a couple thousand years ago!

          One thing is for certain though, John, if you scream at the government about an opinion, regardless of the size of your musculus, orbicularis oris, it will not make the world a better place!

  1. James Mounts's Avatar James Mounts

    Any Christian with a net worth higher than the world average is a bad Christian

  1. Clifford Aguirre's Avatar Clifford Aguirre

    Yes raising rent to market rate just because he can is being a bad Christian. Ramsey can justify his actions in his head by hiding behind being a Christian, but that doesn't excuse his actions. Would Jesus refuse to heal the leper because he wasn't making a profit? Many tenants were placed in the situation that they are not due to laziness, mismanagement or being a criminal deadbeat. They lost their jobs due to covid and the United States hasn't rebounded from that. There is a catch-22 by telling everyone to get a job and that will fix everything. That's not reality. Many of the jobs available are minimum wage jobs where the monthly income wouldn't be enough to pay for the price of rent the "Christians" like Ramsey now demand. People are naive if they think it's ok to raise the cost of living because of supply and demand while the country is in a state of crisis. Ramsey and others are making a profit off of the backs of those who are suffering. It makes me angry when people hide behind the title of Christian which doing non Jesus actions in their lives. As long as they go to church on Sunday they will be ok. Well that's not how it works. Just because you go to church and can recite the Bible doesn't mean that you are a good Christian. Actions are the true measure of being a Christian. Ramsey is trying to justify his wrongs. It doesn't mean Ransey can't raise the rent to cover his mortgage or costs. But he should gouge the suffering just because he can.

  1. John P Maher's Avatar John P Maher

    FIRST JESUS DOES NOT EXIST. SECOND DO NOT COMPARE ANY GREEDY BLOODSUCKKKING LANDLORD to JESUS.THIRD askkk the GREEDY CORPORATIONS HOW THEY ROB and CHEAT and STEAL from YOU in THE NAME of JESUS H. CHRIST !

  1. Paul Steven Lyke's Avatar Paul Steven Lyke

    No one "owns" the earth. We are stewards of it. Our cutthroat "king of the mountain" winner-take-all capitalism is justified by "Christians" because they act like the Old Testament god that they believe is creator. They have very little to do with practicing the equality teachings and example of Christ. If they have money or land, then they are "blessed" and justify poverty as "the poor you'll always have with you." They believe the poor will always be lazy, and can't get with the program of climbing the pyramid of competition. As Christ said, the first will be last, and the last will be first. Eventually the Dave Ramseys of this world will to be reincarnated as a poor black girl in Somalia, sitting in a puddle of feces, paying for the privilege to be alive.

  1. The Right Reverend D. Batch's Avatar The Right Reverend D. Batch

    My Brother sold all of his Rental Properties so he would not have to deal with all of the sob stories from Tenants. He made mint selling to a corporation that has no problems raising the rent.

  1. Clay Serenbetz's Avatar Clay Serenbetz

    Is it Christian for free-loading tenants to force a landlord into bankruptcy for not paying rent? In Bankruptcy, the landlord will lose the property, their investment and possibly their home and retirement security. The landlords may have their own payments for mortgage, property tax, insurance and maintenance. Is it moral for the tenant to ruin the landlords' credit and to force them to lose their investment in the rental property? Is it moral for tenants to turn their towns into mini-Detroits (as Detroit was in 2013) with no tax base and vacant rat-infected properties filled with drug activity. If tenants get to free-load on society, then not just the landlords, but our whole society will collapse. No, it's not more moral for tenants than it is for landlords. It's a street with several lanes requiring everyone to live up to their commitments. Stakeholders include the tenant, the landlord, the neighborhoods, the city, the bank, insurance companies and contractors who maintain the properties.. New York in the 1970s also faced a crisis where rent-controlled properties bankrupted not just the landlords, but the whole city.

    1. Elliott Zelenak's Avatar Elliott Zelenak

      you seem to not be conflating things with jesus, but your own ideas on morality, what society should be, and where money should be spent. the question isn’t whether you can justify raising rent prices - the question asks from the perspective of Jesus who would 10000% not follow the same line of logic you have

  1. Gwendolyn Lord's Avatar Gwendolyn Lord

    Well....I have tossed tenants out quick enough who tried to con me with postponing or not paying at all. But also carried a tenant for five months, who was put of work. However, I had a reason. When I was hospitalized, he cared for my pets. One hand washes the other.

    But, more to the point, compassion has jack to do with what religion you follow. This would seem to me to be a case by case scenario, and would depend entirely on each situation and the history between the two parties.

    1. Brian Scott Hoff's Avatar Brian Scott Hoff

      Had they not watched your pets then out they would go? Right? So... when one hand washes the other it is best to not be the first hand to do the washing? Don't be charitable until someone else goes first. Is that what you meant to say? I can't read that any other way.

  1. Belmontst25's Avatar Belmontst25

    Yes...simple

  1. Donald Richard Starns's Avatar Donald Richard Starns

    It’s Morals vs. Ethics, compassion vs. Money. Jesus supposedly said to sell all you own and give everything to the poor. If you choose to be a (land) lord, you’re putting yourself on the side of money.

    1. Nicole Francis's Avatar Nicole Francis

      Precisely and Buddhists and muslims believe the same, read the Korran and teachings of Buddha/Sidhartha

  1. Matthew Mastrogiovanni's Avatar Matthew Mastrogiovanni

    Jesus would say, "Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." Luke 18:22

    1. Ralph A. Lawrence's Avatar Ralph A. Lawrence

      Let's take a poll, and make a list of how many Christians actually follow this teaching!

      1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

        Or any religious person.

        🦁♥️

    2. Ralph A. Lawrence's Avatar Ralph A. Lawrence

      Let's take a poll, and make a list of how many Christians actually follow this teaching!

    3. Reverend Gary's Avatar Reverend Gary

      Don't you just love it when people quote things out of context to make a twisted, obfuscated point?

      No one wants other humans to wallow in their belief they are poor and cannot afford the things they need to survive in their lives. Each individual is responsible for their own beliefs, their own situation, their own “poorness” and if you do not want to be “poor” do something about it, it is your own responsibility. There is no law, decree, understanding, etc., that stipulates that a person is supposed to facilitate, support, enable, empower, another individual’s dysfunctional behavior, beliefs, etc., that maintain that individual in their “poor” beliefs. You are what you think. So think abundance, “what goes around comes around.” Viktor Frankl, author of, “Man’s Search for Meaning,” knows very well, no one can change how another thinks, you must do this yourself. If you think you are “poor” you will be. If you think you can “walk on water,” you can, just ask Jesus.

  1. Mark Christopher High's Avatar Mark Christopher High

    First, the Sadduccees were the wealthy landlords of Palestine. The real Christians sold all they had, and then had all things in common. So, if you lived communally and apart from “the World,” rent would not be an issue. You gave it all and by example entered, “the kingdom of heaven.” “As above, so below.”

  1. Rhonda Neel's Avatar Rhonda Neel

    I am a landlord with many long-term tenants, some of whom are on a fixed income. Some properties have a mortgage and others do not. With the influx of new-comers to our city, demand exceeded supply seemingly overnight. And as prices and values rose, so did the taxes and insurance. Within 3 years, I blinked and my taxes and insurance each rose 33%! I could not raise the rent that much or even the portion of the rent attributable to taxes and insurance. Nor could I absorb the sudden increase in costs without financial sacrifices while I was subsidizing my daughter who was dying of cancer. I think each individual landlord has to consider his moral, ethical, and financial obligations when making decisions on raising the rent. My grandchildren report that their rent went up overnight more than $300 per month each! I raised all my rents only $25. I knew the tenants could not afford more than that. If they move out, I can raise the rents to the market value, but until then, I have to recognize that these tenants have been paying my mortgages for some time and I cannot, will not put them in the street.

    1. Brian Scott Hoff's Avatar Brian Scott Hoff

      If that story is true I would then say you are doing what you must to the best of your ability and for the best outcome possible for as many as possible. I hope your daughter is comfortable and that you all can share your time & love together.

  1. Rev. B's Avatar Rev. B

    Jesus brought Lazarus back from the dead for free. What a sucker!

  1. Jesse Allan Watson's Avatar Jesse Allan Watson

    Call me biased. I'm facing a similar issue in 3 months. I'm facing $200+ increase per month. Last year I had no fridge 2mos (ruined food no reimburse) & bathroom flooded apt weekly for 2 months. I also can't choose my internet provider because owner gets kickback contract from Xfinity! So I'm gonna wrote a letter and ask about all that. I doubt it'll do any good. I intend to get HUD & news involved. They forced other (ssi/ssa) tenants to agree & return the notice! I would think that's illegal. I have to move because I can't afford that increase especially for a 1br communist dump in Johnson City, TN. Market can't support $600. Homeless are everywhere here. To the point McDs has locked lobby permanently & rest no public restrooms.

    The rich or well off could meet in the middle. In my case mm property owns city block & multiple others in various places. That's flat out greed, manipulate the market to justify a increase... I certainly would try to help those who try & have a hard time. There is a thing called Charitable Tax deduction or even Loss!

    1. Reverend Gary's Avatar Reverend Gary

      Owning a rental property is a business. Costs for owning, maintaining and upgrading any business property will go up. Those costs will be reflected in the cost to rent the property. A property owner who does not maintain and upgrade their property will eventually loose their investment and go bankrupt.

      No one wants other humans to wallow in their belief they are poor and cannot afford the things they need to survive in their lives. Each individual is responsible for their own beliefs, their own situation, their own “poorness” and if you do not want to be “poor” do something about it, it is your own responsibility. There is no law, decree, understanding, etc., that stipulates that a person is supposed to facilitate, support, enable, empower, another individual’s dysfunctional behavior, beliefs, etc., that maintain that individual in their “poor” beliefs. You are what you think. So think abundance, “what goes around comes around.” Viktor Frankl, author of, “Man’s Search for Meaning,” knows very well, no one can change how another thinks, you must do this yourself. If you think you are “poor” you will be. If you think you can “walk on water,” you can, just ask Jesus.

      Dave Ramsey started his business in the garage of his home. He has gone broke at least once, lost it all. Started over again. He thinks abundance, wealth, well being, and he feels deeply about having all these wonderful abundant things in his life. His business today employs hundreds if not thousands of other people. You don’t do that thinking you are poor. Do you want to be poor or rich? Do you want to have a poor, poverty plagued life or do you want to have an abundantly wealthy life in all areas of your life? Good news! YOU get to choose. Start by listening to Dave Ramsey every day on the radio. You can get inspired and begin to think rich! Watch the DVD titled, “The Secret,” get the book of the same title, both produced by Rhonda Byrne. Go to her web site, TheSecret.tv and you can read about thousands of normal, ordinary people who have made monumental and even miraculous changes in their lives. It is all about how your think and how you feel. YOU CHOOSE.

  1. Rafael Picon's Avatar Rafael Picon

    Jesus was a hobo Preacher with no interested in addressing any economic problems . Jesus's " eye of the needle" proverb suggested poor people had the better chance of going to heaven than rich people . Jesus also subscribed to suffering as a test of character and un yielding devotion to god .

  1. The Right Reverend D. Batch's Avatar The Right Reverend D. Batch

    Comment removed by user.

  1. Belmontst25's Avatar Belmontst25

    Yes

  1. Belmontst25's Avatar Belmontst25

    Yes...simple

  1. Clay Serenbetz's Avatar Clay Serenbetz

    You guys are just jealous. If you had that much money, I doubt that you'd give it all away, despite your protests to the contrary. The wealthy are providing a much needed service or developing a innovation for the betterment of the world; they are also creating jobs. To force them to forfeit their wealth would disincentivize them and make the world a worse place. Have you seen Venezuela recently? Go live there. That's where Jesus probably resides these days.

    1. Brian Scott Hoff's Avatar Brian Scott Hoff

      Man... not sure what they put in your punch but you seem to really like it. Do the words "forfeit" and "share" mean the same thing? Every wealthy person provides a much needed service and the world will suffer without it? Every wealthy person is trying to employ as many people as they can? Any other options other than what we already do will make us be just like Venezuela? Keep doing what we do or else it will be hell? That's what it seems you are saying. So, no one can suggest any alternative (another word for innovation) unless they are wealthy because only wealthy people have the best ideas for innovation that will be of benefit to all... that sure sounds like what you just said.

    2. Tom's Avatar Tom

      Consumers create jobs by creating a demand, not rich people. If rich people actually created jobs, we wouldn't have seen the massive unemployment we did at the beginning of the pandemic. While the majority of the population has lost money and taken on more debt since the pandemic started, the wealthiest have increased their wealth and had no problem laying off or firing millions of Americans who rely on their job to have health care benefits during a global health crisis. You mention the issues Venezuela is going through currently but fail to understand that the socialist policies initially worked for several years before the US (and others) stopped purchasing oil from Venezuela, which was their main export. Without countries to purchase their oil, there wasn't enough funding for the social programs implemented and so we have the issues we see there today. At least it's a better example than trying to bring up the Nazis as a reason for socialism being bad, as though their economic policies didn't bring Germany out of the financial destitution the nation found themselves in after WWI. It was the nationalist, xenophobic, and authoritarian policies that made the National Socialist German Workers' Party so evil.

  1. Elliott Zelenak's Avatar Elliott Zelenak

    Everyone on here acts like Jesus would be a fan of the “market”. reread the new testament. he went into the markets and chastised those who put profits over people. even if raising rent to market rate would be viewed as nothing more than being on equal footing with others, stop conflating Jesus with business decisions and using your investments as a reason to price out tenants. as a property owner, sure you can justify your decisions based on whatever you like - as a renter, do not try to think raising the rent is what jesus would want you to do.

  1. Daniel John McConnell's Avatar Daniel John McConnell

    Sorry, I know it’s just a manger but it’s 3 widow mites a night- Dave Ramsey

  1. Robert N Clarkson's Avatar Robert N Clarkson

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2021%3A33-46&version=NIV

  1. Robert N Clarkson's Avatar Robert N Clarkson

    Matthew 21:33-46 Parable of the Tenants

  1. Rev. Rory's Avatar Rev. Rory

    If I want to discuss this question based on religion, I consult with a leader of my church. If I want a financial answer, I consult a real estate/financial expert. If I want to make the decision on my own, I consult both of them and then decide what to do. I do not present moral questions to talk show hosts of any kind. I also don't go to the church for financial advice.

    I like my dentist but I don't ask him to repair my car or ask him to diagnose what's wrong with it or right with it.

    1. Reverend Gary's Avatar Reverend Gary

      Excellent point Rev. Rory I will not be one to enable bad behavior in others that leads to them being financially insolvent or even complaining about rent increases.

      Owning a rental property is a business. Costs for owning, maintaining and upgrading any business property will go up. Those costs will be reflected in the cost to rent the property. A property owner who does not maintain and upgrade their property will eventually loose their investment and go bankrupt.

      No one wants other humans to wallow in their belief they are poor and cannot afford the things they need to survive in their lives. Each individual is responsible for their own beliefs, their own situation, their own “poorness” and if you do not want to be “poor” do something about it, it is your own responsibility. There is no law, decree, understanding, etc., that stipulates that a person is supposed to facilitate, support, enable, empower, another individual’s dysfunctional behavior, beliefs, etc., that maintain that individual in their “poor” beliefs. You are what you think. So think abundance, “what goes around comes around.” Viktor Frankl, author of, “Man’s Search for Meaning,” knows very well, no one can change how another thinks, you must do this yourself. If you think you are “poor” you will be. If you think you can “walk on water,” you can, just ask Jesus.

      Dave Ramsey started his business in the garage of his home. He has gone broke at least once, lost it all. Started over again. He thinks abundance, wealth, well being, and he feels deeply about having all these wonderful abundant things in his life. His business today employs hundreds if not thousands of other people. You don’t do that thinking you are poor. Do you want to be poor or rich? Do you want to have a poor, poverty plagued life or do you want to have an abundantly wealthy life in all areas of your life? Good news! YOU get to choose. Start by listening to Dave Ramsey every day on the radio. You can get inspired and begin to think rich! Watch the DVD titled, “The Secret,” get the book of the same title, both produced by Rhonda Byrne. Go to her web site, TheSecret.tv and you can read about thousands of normal, ordinary people who have made monumental and even miraculous changes in their lives. It is all about how your think and how you feel. YOU CHOOSE.

  1. John Duane Hess's Avatar John Duane Hess

    Words " nothing is Free" and it should not be free. Landlords have fewer rights. Up held to high standards. Taking a huge risk every lease signed. It's sad people maybe displaced. I have been displaced when I was unable to pay. You learn, you move on.

    1. Nicole Francis's Avatar Nicole Francis

      the words "nothing is free" was made up and maintained by greedy humans for the most part, Yes your time and property is valuable and something should be contributed. However, many people are taking advantage of this and abusing it because they are letting their greed run their lives. We as a society need to stop making excuses for this scrupulous behavior. Also I work in risk analysis and the liability for each lease signed is a risk for the renter just as much. I have had a slum landlord that trespassed on my rights and privacy and never fixed or maintained the property. I actually at times put my own hard earned money into fixing their rental and I paid rent on time every time. Please remember renters deal with risk as well

  1. Nicole Marie Ryan's Avatar Nicole Marie Ryan

    I understand that has been difficult.....but I worked through the pandemic. Thank God and Goddesses for that. But there were people who were making more than 4 times of what I make a week. They could have paid at least some of their rent. Instead people were buying high price items that they didn't need. Landlords were paying the mortgage for their rental properties and still making repairs. They were putting their own money into something that they used to make money on. Landlords are not friends, they are renting properties to make money. They were forced to not make money, to let people live rent free. That is not how the world works, except that it is now. Yes, we should help our neighbor's. But I have seen people who use the system and it has to stop. Even if they attempted to pay part of the rent that would better than nothing. GET A JOB. EVERYONE IS HIRING.

    1. Nicole Francis's Avatar Nicole Francis

      Nicole, I own a company and have worked in a professional job for well over a decade. Due to the pandemic my company is struggling, when businesses close, I can not sell them insurance. I am out there looking for a second job since my business is barely staying above water. The requirements from employers and managers are unrealistic and I have years of good experience. How do you suppose a person just starting out in the working world is to even get an interview with these companies, let alone a job?

      It is not as easy as you are making it sound. I applied for an entry level position and they wanted to pay $16 dollars an hour and expected candidates to have seven years prior work experience. No one can live on $16 an hour without living at home with a family member. Especially not a single parent. You need to get a realistic view of the world before you give others career advice.

  1. Paul Steven Lyke's Avatar Paul Steven Lyke

    No one "owns" the earth. We are stewards of it. Our cutthroat "king of the mountain" winner-take-all capitalism is justified by "Christians" because they act like the Old Testament god that they believe is creator. They have very little to do with practicing the equality teachings and example of Christ. If they have money or land, then they are "blessed" and justify poverty as "the poor you'll always have with you." They believe the poor will always be lazy, and can't get with the program of climbing the pyramid of competition. As Christ said, the first will be last, and the last will be first. Eventually the Dave Ramseys of this world will to be reincarnated as a poor black girl in Somalia, sitting in a puddle of feces, paying for the privilege to be alive.

  1. Kelly Welton's Avatar Kelly Welton

    I find that too many people expect free 'gifts' from Christians. Having been a landlord, the idea that I, too, had a mortgage and expenses (insurance, prop taxes, maintenance, etc.) eluded most renters, who never have to think about those things. Market rents are ridiculously high in some places, but so then are the other expenses. All it takes is one renter to skip out, or trash your place.... and you are behind.

    1. Nicole Francis's Avatar Nicole Francis

      Why would you assume that because someone is renting from you that they also do not have insurance and utilities and other financial responsibilities to pay? And why assume that renters would not understand where you are coming from. You may possibly have run into a few bad renters who do not understand, but a majority of renters I have met and having been a renter myself very much understands and we do have other financial obligations beyond paying rent.

    2. Nicole Francis's Avatar Nicole Francis

      P.S. Kelly, with all due respect no one wants gifts...they just do not want to be ripped off. When a landlord overcharges or charges excessive rent amounts they are basically stealing from the mouths of their renters. Renters do not owe their landlords the gift of being ripped off either. The topic of "Gifts" goes both ways.

    3. Charles Michael Vess's Avatar Charles Michael Vess

      As a Landlord and past owner of multiple renters, I understand Kelly’s points. I too have experienced the expected “free gifts” from tenants. My most recent eviction was with a tenant that was 8 months in arrears. They utilized every excuse from covid to unable to find work. During the whole time, they spent $$$ decorating the unit for each season, they had the fancy “Ring” doorbell and all utilities connected. In the cleanup, the wife n I tossed out 20+ Amazon boxes. I’m always mindful of Jesus’ teachings and living with a compassionate mindset. I will go out on a limb and say that my tenants will say that I’m an understanding and very compassionate Landlord. They will also say that business is business. And while some folks feel the need to take the high road and cast stones, I’m reaching the point of selling OFF my rentals and letting the buyers deal with the headaches; including evictions and upcoming huge rent increases. Yes it does go both ways.

  1. Nicole Francis's Avatar Nicole Francis

    I was raised christian, and frankly after listening to Dave's personal opinion on the matter of raising rents I am severly disappointed. Yes a rental property is an investment, however that is no excuse to allow greed to run rampant in our society. Our society needs to reconsider how they view supply and demand and stop corrupting the system with greed. Remember if you are an ethical person of high moral standards and actually do believe in the christian and or religious bibles then Greed is a sin. We as a society do not in any way need to take more than each of us need on a daily basis. Excess is greed. There should be a reasonable maximum amount and cap on what landlords can charge renters, frankly renters are being taken advantage of, and taking advantage of others, especially those that are vulnerable should be a crime. Taking advantage of others is a crime against morality and ethical beliefs. There is no way to refute these facts. If you take advantage and take more than what you need you have scrupulus moral character and should be penalized as such.

  1. Jeffrey Alan Douglass's Avatar Jeffrey Alan Douglass

    In the United States, in my mind, it is criminal that there is homelessness and families going hungry while the people with the most sit in mansions or homes that are ten times larger than they need. This is the wealthiest country in the world. The position of raising rents is a financial choice. The decision to be an understanding Christian is a moral responsibility. Too many times I see preachers teaching their political views instead of the teachings in the Bible. We need more Bible based churches and less political ramblings.

  1. Mark Herald Kalakian's Avatar Mark Herald Kalakian

    Something you did not mention. Washington and Oregon States Governers both Enacted an "Eviction Moretoreum" that lasted well over a year. This stated that During this Moretorium, Property Owners could Not Evict any renter for not paying rent. This was really nice of them considering they did NOT offer any financial programs to the Property Owners. I watched both Governers say from behind their podium, "If you are a Property owner with Tennants who can't pay their rent during this program, and you can't absorb the costs, Sell your properties before letting them go into foreclosure" I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't hear and see it myself. So A large percentage of small Mom and Pop landlords were forced to sell their properties. When the property sells, the tennant can then be evicted by the new owner. Most of these once Rental Properties , did not return into the rental property market, thus eliminating a whole bunch of affordable rental housing. I work for an independent Property owner who has enough units and treats his tennants really well, that only a couple people didn't pay. So as soon as this Moretorium expired, the people who were able to keep their properties are raising rents trying to recoup some of the many thousands of dollars they lost over the last year.
    A real stab in the back for independent landlord.

  1. Ralph Lucas Eckerson III's Avatar Ralph Lucas Eckerson III

    I hope god does not raise the rent for iCam not pay off the rent I have now he tells me to have faith and he will pay it for me that what we need to do also for each other help each other not hurt or put to much on each other so we can help one another stay on the path to a strong faith in god

  1. Jeffery Boyd Lyles's Avatar Jeffery Boyd Lyles

    John Steinbeck once wrote about a man who moved into a rundown shack with his family. The rent was cheap. The man made repairs to the property and built a fence around it. Because no good deed goes unpunished, the landlord raised the rent because of improvements to the property. Maybe God sent the shepherds to watch over Jesus, Joseph and Mary because there were hoodlums around wanting to steal money that was going to be used to pay taxes. Shepherds, who were used to fighting wild animals to protect their flock, would make good bodyguards. I don’t think God would want people in the streets to where hoodlums could get at them.

  1. Garrett Haines's Avatar Garrett Haines

    Jesus would want you to be fair.

    However, many of you are not considering that a landlord must: make payments on mortgage, insurance, property taxes, school taxes, local taxes, utilities (even if those fall to renter), and maintenance. Plus state and federal taxes. They also have to maintain a buffer for late rent payments and adjust for inflaction. If the cost of these expenses increases, the landlord has to pass those along to the renters. Many responses assume the landlord owns a property free and clear, has no tax burden or other expenses.

    That said, profit maximizing in a way that hurts the tennants is similar to the offering merchants who sat in front of the temple; soaking money out of those with little to give. Recall that is one of the few times in the Gospels when Jesus lost his temper.

    The landlord will need some discernment to find an appropriate rental fee that is equitable to all. That's easier to write than to do.

  1. John P Maher's Avatar John P Maher

    CORPORATION LANDLORDS, CORPORATIONs GENERAL, GREEDY G O Pig FARMERS, BAD is NOT THE WORD, SYTE is MORE MEANINGFUL !

  1. Jeffrey Stoecker's Avatar Jeffrey Stoecker

    A Christian strives to alleviate suffering -- not dispense it in line with prevailing market forces, or worse yet, take advantage of people's suffering. My life experience makes me wonder if ANY landlord can be Christian, or have the expectation of ascending at all.

    I'm retired and low income. I go to the thrift stores a lot and sometimes to the "Restore" to get things to keep my house going. I've been shocked at what I've heard sometimes coming out of the mouths of presumably Christian landlords talking amongst themselves. As if the fact they are buying items meant for the poor when they have several rental properties wasn't enough, some talk openly about how they prefer to rent to single mothers because, when a mother is desperate to keep a child fed, they can sometimes get sexual favors in lieu of rent. This evidently is a thing. They're saved, though. So??? Definitely not.

  1. Terry Hayworth's Avatar Terry Hayworth

    What would you do if pastors raised type and offering above what you can pay and ask you to stay at a church cuz you can't afford to go

  1. Anna Faye Rogers's Avatar Anna Faye Rogers

    We are our brothers' keeper. If your cost [ taxes ect .] goes up that's one thing, but to raise it for greed is another. Life is not about wealth, or fame, remember you can not take it with you! life is about how many lives you touch and how you touched them.

  1. Rev. Howard Slayton's Avatar Rev. Howard Slayton

    I have always said, Everything goes UP except a person’s wages. I worked for some people who thought a quarter (.25 cents) was a generous increase to my paycheck. Every where you go, always want to hang it to you. Let’s see you walk into the bosses office and inform them that your services are going up by fifty dollars per month this year in order to keep your wages competitive within the market place. They are going to look at you and laugh because THEY dictate what they want to pay you. And if you don’t like it, you may leave. So you see, the little person just doesn’t have the option to increase their wages at the drop of a hat. The Jesus of the Bible was compassionate toward poor folks and even says in Acts that it’s better to give than to receive. Land lords want to increase their rents to outrageous unaffordable prices, but then you can’t get them to FIX anything. If I wasn’t married, I would buy a van to live in because I refuse to pay outrageous rent. It’s no wonder at all why some people turn to selling drugs because you can actually live off of the money. No, I do not advocate selling drugs. But I understand why some people do it.

  1. John Peter Dugan's Avatar John Peter Dugan

    Most definitely YES they are evil people............

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