christian cross necklace
An employment tribunal decided this is officially appropriate for UK healthcare workers to wear.

When it comes to medical safety and expression of religion, where’s the line? That’s the question an employment tribunal in the UK had to answer in a recent hearing.

The case involved 61-year-old Mary Onuoha, a devout Catholic who has worn the same cross necklace every day of her life since her baptism.

For some 20 years, the necklace was never a problem. That is, until 2015, when administrators at Croydon University Hospital told Onuoha, a nurse practitioner, that her necklace posed an infection risk to patients, and she needed to remove it.

The battle went on for five years, until Onuoha, feeling perpetually harassed and bullied, resigned in frustration.

Now an employment tribunal has decided that she was right all along.

A Christian nurse claims she was forced out of her job for wearing a crucifix necklace at work. Should cross necklaces...

Posted by Universal Life Church Ministries on Monday, January 10, 2022

A Controversial Cross

While the cross necklace was often a source of tension between Onuoha and hospital management, it was during a 2018 surgery when tensions boiled over. Onuoha was overseeing the surgery when hospital managers entered the surgery room and instructed her to remove or conceal the necklace, arguing that the jewelry posed an infection risk for the surgical patient. She refused, and later that year was taken off nursing duty and placed at reception instead.

Was her necklace a danger to her patients? That’s certainly not how Mary Onuoha sees it. It was never about safety and ”has always been an attack on my faith,” she says. She points to other religious apparel staff members wear – Muslim hijabs, Hindu bracelets – that, according to her, hospital management never made a peep about. 

“At this hospital there are members of staff who go to a mosque four times a day and no one says anything to them. Hindus wear red bracelets on their wrists and female Muslims wear hijabs in theatre,” she stated. “Yet my small cross around my neck was deemed so dangerous that I was no longer allowed to do my job. I am a strong woman but I have been treated like a criminal.”

They offered her a compromise, a longer chain that would keep the necklace out of sight, but she declined.

Trial by Tribunal

Following her 2020 resignation, Onuoha decided to sue Croydon Health Services. “I love my job, but I am not prepared to compromise my faith for it,” she said. “And neither should other Christian NHS staff in this country.” 

But the hospital says they were just following guidance from the Department for Health and Social Care. They stated that not only might necklaces harbor bacteria and transmit infection, they might fall off during a surgery, and an unruly patient might even grab the necklace and injure themselves or healthcare staff.

Last week, an employee tribunal decided Onuoha had done nothing wrong. "There is no evidence to show that the infection risk [other jewelry] posed was lower than the Cross-Necklace," the tribunal said in a statement. "There is no cogent explanation as to why these items are permitted but a fine necklace with a small pendant of religious devotional significance is not." With the victory, Christian faith leaders around the world took a victory lap.

Onuoha’s lawyers say this was always persecution. "From the beginning this case has been about the high-handed attack from the NHS bureaucracy on the right of a devoted and industrious nurse to wear a cross,” they said.

What do you think? Should healthcare professionals be allowed to wear religious symbols, even if they might pose a risk to patient safety?

Was it Christian persecution, or simply an abundance of caution? 

82 comments

  1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

    My first thoughts are that as long as care and attention of items that are worn, including clothes, rings, jewelry etc are prevented from being an infection risk it should be ok to wear them.

    How many nurses, or nurses aids, do we see wearing scrubs in the supermarket, because they either can't be bothered to change, or because ego prevents them from changing. Scrubs then become contaminated and then they go back to work caring for patients. I see this practice as being more likely to be not in the best interest of patients than wearing jewelry. Just my ten cents!

    🦁♥️

    1. Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson's Avatar Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson

      I left Christianity in 1975.

      However, if I am being cared for by someone who is medically competent, do not care what symbols they they wear so long as sanitation protocols can be followed.

    2. Rev Mark D's Avatar Rev Mark D

      Right on Lion. It was a thinly disguised pretext for political action by the hospital managers, period. Perhaps that is perfectly legal and administratively proper in England now, perhaps England has now become a sort of religious authoritarian state, such as China or Hindu Punjab or parts of central Asia where the legally authorized state religion is secularism, I know it is in a number of Muslim countries for instance where it is a crime to practice any other religion, but unlike the UK apparently they are also honest enough to not feel the need to hide behind phone pretexts.

    3. Ilmenheru Terikson's Avatar Ilmenheru Terikson

      The Crucifix is literally a depiction of torture. It has no place in any place of healing. A good christian woman would of known that as a woman she had no place to speak in protest against those in authority. By her own hand she will now never be able to enter the Heaven she so hopes to one day see.

      Remember folks Equal rights does not exist in the bible, women in the faith are bound by the sin of Eve to forever submit to all mankind and never seek to challenge another command given them. Anything less and you are not a real christian.

      1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

        Yes Ilmenheru I guess we have to be thankful the Jesus fellow in those fables wasn't stoned to death because if he had we would no doubt be seeing religious folk of today wearing heavy rocks around their necks and that would have been much worse for patients with dust, dirt, and moss falling off them.🤷🏻‍♂️

        Goodness knows what they'd be wearing around there necks if it had been like todays firing squad. An AK47? A Colt 45? And with lethal injection it would possibly be a syringe, which would have been worse for nurses.

        🦁♥️

  1. Kurt Neuleuf's Avatar Kurt Neuleuf

    Although I do not share her faith, I absolutely believe that her cross, being an integral part of her self identity, is her absolute right to wear.. Having worked in multiple medical establishments, hospitals, clinics, aged care facilities and so on, I can categorically state that in a majority of situations,( excluding Theatre, sensitive areas eg Xray or infectious control wards), that all medical staff do wear wedding rings, necklaces, ear rings, other jewellery, have mobile or in house phones they carry as well as pens , and other job specific tools. Why does one cross pose an assumed infection risk? Even in the unlikely event it did carry an infectious agent, a short bust in a microwave or autoclave would sterilise it.

    1. Rev Mark D's Avatar Rev Mark D

      There's no risk more than all of those items you mentioned commonly worn and allowed. This is just a case of prejudicial and authoritarian abuse, just behind the usual authoritarian thin pretext. The action was probably also not genuine in that it was a single isolated case of intentional personal harassment, having nothing to do with crosses infection or anything else but simple punitive desire. Maybe she stole somebody's boyfriend.

  1. Matthew Mastrogiovanni's Avatar Matthew Mastrogiovanni

    My last job didn't allow necklaces as a safety hazard. The one before that, frowned upon any visible religious jewelry.

    My wife's a nurse, in a prison. They can't wear any necklaces, as a safety hazard.

    So suck it up. You're not being oppressed, it's about safety.

    1. Reverend Gary's Avatar Reverend Gary

      What studies can your site to support your PERSONAL OPINION of "safety?"

      1. Gary James Thomas Garrett's Avatar Gary James Thomas Garrett

        My wife works in a hospital as a safety specialist - her duty mostly consists of monitoring at risk patients that may hurt themselves or others but are in the hospital for medical reasons. She has been cussed, threatened and physically assaulted. So gee, I wonder if it would be a good idea to wear superfluous items that could be grabbed by some "challenged" patient? I can't sight a study - how about common sense?

    2. Rev Mark D's Avatar Rev Mark D

      So as an infection control specialist, you're confident that it was safe that all the other adornments mentioned were allowed, as perhaps as far as we know other people's necklaces were allowed also. Just this one case this one time, no published policy, information to staff about critical infection control policy, professional evidence of actual infection risk supplied as part of the policy creation justification process, consistent enforcement...how about her powdered makeup and mascara falling into a patient, demonstrated to be no risk there...yeah, right.

    3. Rev Mark D's Avatar Rev Mark D

      That doesn't count, prison and corrections culture being known for what it is, health and safety is about the last thing anyone cares about.

  1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

    This is terrible. She should not be allowed to wear a necklace in an operating room without securing it. What happens if it falls of and land in the heart of brain of the patient during surgery? As a nurse she knows that. If I were being operated om I I would not want a nurse with loose jewelry in the operating room. Her negligence might kill me.

  1. Rev. Rory's Avatar Rev. Rory

    I worked in a rough middle school for a while. We were not allowed to wear any type of hanging earrings because at the time, students would grab them and rip your ear. I did not fear my students and none of them ever tried to hurt me, but it did happen to others and I complied with the rule. During surgery I don't think jewelry of any kind should be worn except a ring under a glove. The rest of the time it should be allowed.

  1. Stephen James Oder's Avatar Stephen James Oder

    She should be held to the same standard affecting every other nurse, and it must be uniformly applied to all. If it is a condition of employment to not wear any jewelry around the neck, so be it. If it isn't a condition of employment, then we do have a problem.

  1. Clay Serenbetz's Avatar Clay Serenbetz

    In the attached photo, the Nurse was also wearing an identity card and keys on lanyards. Such items appear to pose no more or less risk than a cross on a chain. Any distinction lacks any reasonable factual distinction. Even if the id card and keys are disinfected, the cross could also become disinfected.

  1. Gwendolyn Lord's Avatar Gwendolyn Lord

    Ridiculous and petty. Her cross is so small, inoffensive and not "on display". Swat at gnats and swallow camels Croyden Health. Persecution when carried to the extremes they did there.Glad she won her suit. Many other IMPORTENT things to focus in on during a pandemic in a health care setting.

  1. flugo's Avatar flugo

    Wearing 'cross jewelry' is ridiculous, anyway. Jesus is risen! Wearing an 'open tomb' symbol, instead of a cross, is far more appropriate.

    1. Rev Mark D's Avatar Rev Mark D

      That's a different topic, although you are quite correct, as they are used today by the great majority, cross jewelry has more in common with the rolling Stones trademarked tongue and lips symbol then it does with religious feeling and religious, moral observance.

    2. Rev Nolan's Avatar Rev Nolan

      That’s actually beside the point. Suppose someone does not believe in Jesus at all. Would it be appropriate for another person to wear or not wear jewelry to YOUR satisfaction? I also don’t believe in the Jesus of the Christians, but I do respect and honor their right to believe as they do… so long as they don’t shove their beliefs down my throat. Wearing a crucifix does not do that.

    3. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      Crosses are not only worn by christians, or meant to represent Christianity by many who wear them. A cross has been known as a spiritual symbol ßince long before Christ was ever thought of. A crucifix, on the other hand, which has a longer vertical rod than the horizontal one, and often a figurine of a man attached to it, is definitely a Christian symbol. I even have a real silver and gold cruçifix in my wallet, and proudly wear it to those Christian functions that serve free food and drinks.

    4. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      flugo, it's no different than those necklaces you wear when performing in dragshows.

    5. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      flu flu, wearing an open tomb symbol could more likely, and more often be thought of as the goddess; the massive, eternal womb from which all life comes. So, thankyou for the Pagan insight, sir. There may be hope for you, yet!

    6. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      flu flu, wearing an open tomb symbol could more likely, and more often be thought of as the goddess; the massive, eternal womb from which all life comes. So, thankyou for the Pagan insight, sir. There may be hope for you, yet!

    7. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      fluzy, your pseudo intellectualism is showing again. And I'm not referring to your dress slip iether, girl.

      1. Elizabeth Allyn Smith's Avatar Elizabeth Allyn Smith

        Always enjoy your comments Carl.

  1. Reverend Gary's Avatar Reverend Gary

    There haven been recent studies in the United States regarding surgical masks. The type we always wear during any surgical procedure in hospital operating rooms, the type that have no way of protecting the millions of civilians wearing them to PREVENT CONTRACTION OF COVID, yup those masks. The study was to determine the effectiveness of the masks for any and all types of surgeries in hospital operating rooms. Surgeries were conducted under specific parameters comparing the post surgery infection rate of the surgical site when all surgical team members in the surgical theater wore masks versus not wearing masks. That is correct, the entire surgical team did not wear masks. All other precautions normally undertaken for OR surgical procedures were followed. The results: There was a decreased incidence of infection in the operating rooms where masks were NOT WORN!

    1. Nancy Howe's Avatar Nancy Howe

      Can you share that documentation? The dissertation on the study and where and when it was done? I'd like to see it.

    2. Nancy Howe's Avatar Nancy Howe

      Will you please post the clinical trial/study on this? Site your information?

  1. Rev Nolan's Avatar Rev Nolan

    It all depends on the tasks being performed. As a PAC or NP, who is not performing surgery, for example, or who is not working in a dangerous setting like a prison, jewelry should not be prohibited in the workplace. It’s freedom of expression, religion, and choice that no one else should care about. However, this is a story where such an instance does not apply. I am not a Christian, but I would feel very violated if I were in her shoes just as much as I am offended on her behalf.

  1. Rich Calton's Avatar Rich Calton

    Good thing SHE won! such a necklace is NOT an infection risk. Rings and fake nails ARE though and I have seen many nurses with those.

    1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      Are you kidding, Rich? Those evil Crosses will burn holes right into your skin!

      1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

        Carla, if far more actually EVIL!!! Nazi swastikas, Satanic pentagrams and Baphomet medallions, Communist Hammers and Sickles or Red Stars, and upside down or Satanic loop crosses don't burn holes right into anyone's skin, nobody is in danger of that happening from having crucifixes or crosses on himself or herself, no matter how abused or misrepresented those Christian symbols have been. Try to use a brain cell (your only one!), sometimes!!

  1. William Dusenberry's Avatar William Dusenberry

    The “facts” relating to the mythological suicide of the Christian Jesus, (Jesus committed suicide by allowing himself to be tortured to death) which means his father committed (the Christian God) committed some sort of cide (I was too lazy to find out the correct word, for a father who tortures his only son to death - in this particular case, a death which only lasted two days).

    Jesus’s suicide, by being tortured to death by his father, became the symbol of Christianity, and this grotesque symbol now adorns hospital rooms, kids play and sleeping rooms, and as of today, such grotesqueness has been given the approval of the SCOTUS (that the heathen Trump built).

    The wearing of a torture device around one’s neck, to indicate that the wearer approves of fathers torturing their sons to death — because wearing such guarantees an everlasting life, in a non-existent hereafter — sort of makes sense— if one has been brainwashed since birth to believe in such an absurdity — but that SCOTUS has now legitimized such crap, well, it’s just so much crap.

    One thing positive, that this Christian torture symbol has been proven to do, is prevent being attacked by a vampire; since Christians began wearing such torture devices, vampire attacks on Christians wearing such devices, dwindled down to the point that there are no vampires left at all.

    Maybe they’ll work with the Coronavirus— but if they did, we’d have known by now.

    1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

      William Dusenberry, Jesus didn't commit suicide by his being executed, anymore than any death row inmates today or down through history committed suicide by their being executed. That is ridiculous for you to say!! Soldiers in war who die don't commit suicide and haven't committed suicide. Christ and Christians are in a war against the Evil One, who is Satan, and, sometimes, deaths happen in this spiritual war, the same as they do in human wars. So, Jesus Christ and the Christian martyrs didn't commit suicide, but nobly self-sacrificed themselves for the truth. Don't you believe that there is anything more important than clinging to life at any cost for which people should be willing to give their lives, such as defense of wives, children, innocent and defenseless people, and our countries, without that being suicide?!! If not, I'm very sorry for you, that your morality is so very lacking and pitiful!! The Romans meant the cross as a torture and execution device, but Christ's death on it and His resurrection transformed it into a symbol of victory over death and the grave and the means of our salvation!! Jesus wasn't mythological because people aren't willing to die as martyrs for something that they know is just made up and the resurrection is the only thing that could have transformed hopeless and frightened men into bold preachers of Jesus Christ!! They wouldn't have been sad and discouraged over a death that didn't happen at all. That's ridiculous!! There is the proof of Jesus' life, death, and resurrection. Buddhism wouldn't be here today without the Buddha's having lived, Rome wouldn't be here today without the founder of Rome's having lived, and Christianity wouldn't be here today without the founder Jesus Christ's having lived.

      1. Ilmenheru Terikson's Avatar Ilmenheru Terikson

        This is a secular ministry, if you espouse such rhetoric you show us all you are not a ULC minister in good standing, as such nothing you say has any validity here.

        1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

          Ilmenheru Terikson, unless you have been elected or appointed to the post here of Chairman of the ULC Certification Board (unbeknownst to everyone here or even yourself), you don't get rightfully to say who is a ULC minister in good standing or whose say has any validity here in reality, but only in your own fantasies and delusions of grandeur and "ownership of the blog". The monastery is for all faiths, not just yours, and if the actual mediators here have no problem with my posts, you have just nothing to say about it!!

      2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

        If Christ really existed Partin he would have had the power to stop his execution. So, if he wasn't suicidal he must have been a self-defeatist masochist, with an inferiority complex.

        1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

          Carla, there is most certainly nobody that you would be willing to die for to save their life, since, by your own admission, you don't love anyone, but what a self-centered thing like you wouldn't do is irrelevant to what a loving person such as Jesus Christ would do and makes you incapable of understanding why He would be willing to die for the sins of the world!!

  1. David Arthur Lewis's Avatar David Arthur Lewis

    This is just stupid. The coronavirus is airborne. It's not spread by necklaces. The virus also doesn't care what you believe.

    1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      Maybe she psychically charges it first, and wears it as a protection talisman, David.

      1. David Arthur Lewis's Avatar David Arthur Lewis

        The virus still doesn't care and is not deterred.

  1. Nicholas J Page's Avatar Nicholas J Page

    Reverend Nick Page UK Funny how the nurse can wear her cross for 20 years before she gets told to remove it When my late mother was in nursing she always wore a nurses cape coming on duty and off duty Nurses should cover up their uniforms whilst going on /off duty .All manner if jewelry is worn these days I don't believe anyone has caught an infection from such I have spent time in hospitals and even see them wear false eyelashes. No harm done to me or anyone else Before people start shouting their mouths off We should have medical proof that nothing should be worn.The only time I take of my watch,hearing aid and cross is if I have an Xray or MRI scan on my brain

    1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      Only the pretty ones should wear nothing, Nicholas.

  1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

    William Dusenberry, you prove by your absurd, illogical, and sad attempt at "humor" statement here that you don't know the difference between execution and suicide or know anything about the obvious reality of sin in the world, which is why Jesus died on the cross to redeem us from it. Your not believing that there is any such thing as sin, for which Jesus had to die on the cross to save people from it, and sin's not actually being real are two entirely different and polar opposite things because reality in the universe and world, thankfully, doesn't revolve around your very limited "understanding" of anything!!! The cross isn't grotesque, but a glorious symbol of Christ's death and resurrection!! Remind yourself of your position that "there is no sin in the world" the next time that you read about any murders, rapes, muggings, bank or other robberies, child molestation, or the Holocaust of the Jews or all other monumental and everyday evils happening in this world or when any of them happen to you!! No truly observant and intelligent person can fail to see or refuse to admit that there are sins in the world and, therefore, had to be a payment made for those sins to free all of us from them when we couldn't pay for them ourselves. That was the payment that Jesus made for all of us on the cross, which we couldn't make for ourselves. God didn't want to sacrifice His son on the cross, but Jesus sacrificed himself to pay for our sins out of love for all of us. Why would you mock and insult Jesus, who hasn't done anything against you and who loves you and all other people?!! You don't make any sense by doing that!! Do you also think that soldiers who are killed in wars defending their countries and fighting against tyranny and oppression from Nazis or anyone else have "actually committed suicide"? Do you also deny anything more important than anyone's life for which he or she might give up their life, such as defending your wife and children or other defenseless people from attack? That wouldn't be suicide, but noble self-sacrifice, and it is very sad that you don't know the difference between those two things! Do you think that prisoners today who are executed for capital crimes have also committed suicide? This isn't talking about the morality of executing criminals, but only about the fact of its being done and as long as it is, it is execution of criminals, and not their committing suicide. Hermann Goering committed suicide to save himself from execution, but anyone who doesn't kill himself while awaiting execution in prison will be executed when his sentence is carried out, and not kill himself. Jesus submitted his will to the will of his Father, just as a soldier in war does to the government ordering him to fight the enemy and risk dying in the process of doing that, and so no more committed suicide than the soldiers who die in war or anyone else who sacrifices his or her life for a higher ideal and responsibility than just self-preservation "commit suicide". We are in a war against the Evil One, who is out to harm, mislead, and destroy people and our world in every way that he can, and, just as in wars against human adversaries, death will sometimes be required of combatants against this Adversary, too. So, the martyrs who defended the truth of Christianity against the enemies of Christianity also didn't commit suicide, but, rather, nobly self-sacrificed themselves and died for something far higher than their own lives!! If I'm talking here to someone who is so morally bankrupt and amoral that you wouldn't even be willing to die to save your wife or children or friends or even strangers from attack and murder because you "think" that that would be your "committing suicide", which is what you sound like you are, then I could see your "reason" for "thinking" that "self-sacrifice is the same as suicide". So, are you admitting to being such a low down and low life person as that?!! Jesus' death on the cross isn't mythological because his disciples wouldn't have been depressed, hopeless and fearful over a death that didn't happen or willing to die as martyrs for a resurrection that didn't happen. They wouldn't have been transformed from hopeless and frightened men into bold preachers of Christ, except by his resurrection!! The Romans may have meant the cross to be an instrument of torture and death, but just as Jesus transformed death and despair into life and hope, the cross was also transformed from an instrument of torture and death into the symbol of Jesus' victory over death and the grave and bringing life out of that!!! That won't make any sense to you until you give your heart and mind over to Christ because these things are only spiritually discerned and understood and are "foolishness" to the ungodly.

    1. William Dusenberry's Avatar William Dusenberry

      John, when kamikaze pilots killed themselves, by dying for their particular God, they committed suicide (altruistic suicide) — and you’re correct, the mythological Jesus didn’t commit suicide, because it defies logic, that if a mythological (non-existant) anything ever does anything - under your warped logic, John, that such anything’s actually took place.

      Christianity, as with the Greek and Roman myths, are all mythological — so when a mythological person, who’s part of mythologial process, commits altruistic suicide (as most military recruits are trained to do — by convincing them that they are duty-bound, to die for a MAGA’er, such as DJT, it’s called “dying for one’s country”but it’s suicide nonetheless.

      You’re right though, John. Since a Roman torture device, metamorphized into a vampire repellent, there've been no more reported vampire attacks on humans who still believe in the mythological Jesus; which means that the the Christian cross is one of the greatest time-tested placebos ever spawned by the Romans (who, according to Judas) only murdered Christians who refused to acknowledge their loyalty to the Roman emperor.

      Bottom line, John —whenever one allows themselves to be tortured to death — especially by one’s father — you might not like to hear it — but it’s called suicide — and MEGA-types like you, John, are willing to give your lives (as shown by the 1/6/21 traitors) so that such myths can continue to be passed on, father, to son — and then to the Holy Ghost.

      1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

        William Dusenberry, I know that your egotism and "canonization as a saint", which was just given to you by this church or somebody here because you didn't actually earn any such thing!!!, and your equally phony degrees here make you "think" that you are more knowledgeable about the history of that time and place than was Tacitus, who wrote in the Annals of Imperial Rome that Christus was crucified under the authority of the Roman Governor Pontius Pilate, thereby, proving that Jesus wasn't mythological, since mythological persons can't be put to death!!! That is just common sense and logic!! You might try looking into it, sometime!! A "mythological resurrection" can't bring men out of their fear and hopelessness and transform them into bold preachers of that resurrection and make them willing to die as martyrs for something that you say "they knew was just made up"!! That has never happened in the history of the world for anyone else, and didn't happen for Jesus, either!! How even someone such as yourself can deceive yourself into "thinking" that you are a "saint", much less "a doctor of divinity" or whatever other lies and insanities you convince yourself are "true" about you is only more proof that you aren't in touch with reality and people can convince themselves of anything about themselves, no matter how unrealistic and obviously fantasy land living it is!!! Saints aren't saying the hateful, cynical, and rotten-hearted things that you are saying in this thread and other threads in this blog, which disqualify and exclude you from The Saints Club!! You can't just call anything that you want to a "saint", no matter what he is doing or saying, or else "saint" doesn't mean anything any more!! Neither do you actually qualify for "doctor of divinity" or any of your other phony claims about yourself for the same reason. You know, unless you are living in a fantasy world about that, too, that there are no such things as vampires, and so, logically, neither the cross nor anything else can be used to drive away things that don't exist in the first place, since their own non-existence keeps them away very well all by itself!! You want to reduce the cross to just "something to keep vampires away" solely for the purpose of trivializing it and mocking it, but even the most cursory scanning of history (and certainly any in depth and factual review of history) reveals that the Cross of Christ has far more power than that or any prop in horror movies!!! Many people throughout history have been tortured and killed by repressive regimes and that didn't happen because "they gave themselves up to being tortured and killed", but, rather, because they were seized and tortured and killed against their wills!! Christ was also taken against His will to be scourged, mocked, and crucified, and asked God "If it is possible, let this cup pass from me", but did His Father's will, not from the Father's desire to torture and kill His Son, but to save us all from sin. You can avoid embarrassing yourself by any more such ludicrous statements as your statements here by doing a little more basic research on matters before you express any uneducated and foolish comments!!! The Christians didn't owe any loyalty to the Roman Emperor, but only to Christ. You have far too many lies and fantasies in your post for me to deal with in just one post of my own, and so I will deal with more of your nonsense later on, and because there is a 5,000 word limit on posts for us and I could go on forever refuting all the idiocy in your post here!!

    2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      Don't seek to avoid sinning, John. It can be a lot of fun when done in the right way. I thought Jesus came into this word to promote homosexual orgies. That's why he needed twelve apostles.

    3. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      John, you certainly are long winded, the way ramble on and on about silly things. I hope you don't think it makes you sound any more credible.

      1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

        Carl, your "thinking" that defending Jesus against the stupidity of His being charged with "committing suicide" is just "rambling on about silly things" because you don't care anything about Jesus is the exact opposite of its actually being "something silly" (in other words, something very serious!!). You think that any words more than none about Jesus are "just rambling on and on about silly things" because you wouldn't say anything more than something silly yourself about him!! Is there anyone in the world that you do care about and that you wouldn't put up with anyone else's insulting or falsely characterizing them without contradicting that person?!! If not, I feel very sorry for them having you to stick up for them, but if so, you can understand my sticking up for Christ, Who loved and stood up for me and you and everyone else in the world while He lived and on the cross and when He resurrected, and so you shouldn't be insulting or mocking Him as you are doing, since you wouldn't want that to be done to your loved ones (if someone like you has any). As I told you in another post, you can mock Christ as much as you please here by saying "he came into the world to promote homosexual orgies" and any other sick and perverted comments that you want to make with little or no consequences here, but that only proves that Pagans or Wiccans' or whatever you claim to be have no morals or decency at all and don't do to others what you want others to do to you. Also, this world isn't all that there is and getting away with anything here isn't the same as actually getting away with it, because there is a life after this life and a judgment coming for everyone for every idle word and wrong thing that we have said or done that we don't repent of before dying!! You should keep that in mind!! As for "sinning being a lot of fun if you do it the right way", you evidently don't know what that "right way" is for yourself, since your sinning has only made you obnoxious and disrespectful in your comments here and your favorite sin of gluttony results in heart attacks and heart disease, and may do that for you, too, and then any other sinning or lust indulged in by you and one good orgasm from it would probably kill you!! That's if you could find anyone else willing to indulge in any sinning with as fat of a person as you say that you are!! There are very good reasons for all the moral rules against sinning, which nobody knows how to do "right", such as dying from a heart attack!! Christ deserves all the best words that I can say for Him in His defense! Is there anyone who deserves all your best words in their defense?!! If so, don't condemn my words in defense of Christ for being "long winded"!! "Long winded" in defense of Christ and the truth is much better than short winded in speaking lies and mockery!!!

      2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

        Being related to Dolly won't help you around here iether, Partin, no matter how big your tits are! And they certainly look prominent from my point of view. Do you paint those little pictures on them all by yourself, like phony tattoos, trying to show that you have what it takes.

  1. Thomas Edwin Peterson's Avatar Thomas Edwin Peterson

    wear it inside the issued surgical clothing so it doesn't have a chance of being lost during the surgery. if a prayer is requested stand aside and let other personnel do their work. hold the cross in hand in such a way as to be visible until prayer is finished then return it to a position under tunic. change gloves and return to duties. easy to do.

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      Yes, hold a metal object and look up at the ceiling and speak to it, or look down at the floor and speak to it, then put the metal object safely away. Am I the only one that thinks this sort of ritual is kind of weird?

      My main concern is having scientifically educated personnel performing none scientific rituals under the misguided impression they are speaking to something, which clearly isn’t there. Usually, people who talk to things that are not there are usually needing assistance in institutions, but amazingly, it seems to be OK by society if it appears they are speaking to some form of deity.

      I wonder how patients would feel if a nurse started doing a chant, and some form of ritual dance around your hospital bed jumping up and down shaking a rattle. You might laugh and find this comment kind of crazy, but in reality it is no different than someone holding a metal object and speaking to the floor or ceiling and then crossing themselves. 🤷🏼

      🦁❤️

    2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      Who would be requesting that you say a prayer during surgery, Thomas? And even if someone did , that wouldn't be a good reason to do it. A surgical nurse, in surgery, stops working to say a prayer. That nurse would be fired on the spot, and never hired in that capacity again!

  1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

    You better hope there isn't anything dripping off of it, like the blood of Jesus, or it will ruin your shirt.

  1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

    Carl, you "think" that any more words than no words for Christ are "just rambling on and on" and only words mocking and insulting Christ are "the right amount of words about Him". As for "sin's being a lot of fun if you do it the right way", you don't know that "right way" yourself because your sinning has only made you obnoxious and disrespectful and your favorite sin of gluttony leads to heart attacks in people and could do that for you, too, and then any other sinning or indulgence in lust could finish you off by any exertion and makes you unappealing in your own admitted overweight condition for anyone to sin with you!! Was that short enough not to overtax your comprehension?!!

  1. Robert N Clarkson's Avatar Robert N Clarkson

    Silver is a natural disinfectant. A thin chain breaks so easy under pressure that it couldn’t pose a safety risk. The article pointed out the employer made special consideration in the workplace for other faiths. She deserves back pay and a settlement for being discriminated against.

    1. Rev. Rory's Avatar Rev. Rory

      I didn't know that. I thought it as copper.

  1. Robert N Clarkson's Avatar Robert N Clarkson

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  1. Paul Donaldson's Avatar Paul Donaldson

    'My pillow guy' wears his little cross as a sign of something so I would guess it's fine for all.

  1. Rev. Rory's Avatar Rev. Rory

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  1. Ronald Jay Stark's Avatar Ronald Jay Stark

    Let's suppose this lady is being featured in a new motion picture. The director asks her to remove her cross as the part doesn't allow for it.

    Will she remove it? I would imagine she would. It has nothing to do with her religion or faith.

    If the casting director asked her if she would not wear it if requested as it would be a "condition of employment" she would remove it if asked.

    If the hospital was concerned for a patient's well being they should make it a "condition of employment" to wear jewelry when on duty.

    In this case they made an issue where one didn't exist. She should have been re-assigned and the matter referred to HR. There was no stated policy and there should have been. Is there now? Probably not. d

  1. Stephen James Oder's Avatar Stephen James Oder

    She should be held to the same standard affecting every other nurse, and it must be uniformly applied to all. If it is a condition of employment to not wear any jewelry around the neck, so be it. If it isn't a condition of employment, then we do have a problem.

  1. Nancy Howe's Avatar Nancy Howe

    Y'all have taken this to a whole other level. The question in court was "is the wearing of the cross a hazard in the operating room?" It was found in a court of law that it was not. It's done and the length of time and process in itself was ridiculous.

    All of these other (over the top) comments here have nothing to do with this. (Although it's quite entertaining) You're just bored and want to fight and be right. Judge lest ye be judged. Go take a nap and chill out. OM! Breathe!

  1. Alan Diamond's Avatar Alan Diamond

    Oh the terror Christians face. After centuries showing nothing but love and kindness toward everyone else,

    they are being discriminated against. And who are these discriminators? Other Christians of course.

    1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      They must be self defeatists, Alan.

  1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

    Ilmenheru Terikson and CHL, "the crucifix is literally a depiction of torture and it has no place in any place of healing". What about in Catholic hospitals and in chapels in other hospitals? Fortunately, they don't feel the same way about it as you do and don't see any discrepancy between a crucifix on a wall or around somebody's neck and the practice of Christianity and, just maybe, know as much or more about that than you do. Some men leaders in the Church have tried to keep women from having any say back against their authority, chauvinistically, but they don't speak for God, no matter how much they may think that they do, and those are only the teachings of men, not of God, and women aren't actually bound by them at all or, again, Catholic hospitals with crucifixes in them on walls or around nurses' necks couldn't exist. As for Jesus' dying by stoning or other means available in His time (not guns), that was never left to chance and He couldn't have died any other way and it was prophesied in Isaiah that He would die on the cross. The Jews tried to throw him off a cliff one time and he just passed right through the midst of them. The Romans meant the cross as an instrument of torture and death, but Jesus transformed it into the means of our salvation and a symbol of victory over death and the grave!! I hope that that cleared that matter up for both of you.

  1. Minister William Jackson's Avatar Minister William Jackson

    I feel that is our God given right to where across of Christian faith but they do not complain about other religions where their symbols so what right do they have to fire her it is her reminder of the title across the same one now. Also it's coming to the point of some sports have to sign a contract to want to win or earn down the hundreds of dollars to know how to say or mention or wear anything to do with our lord Jesus so it comes down to what is it money or fame or Christianity.

    I've been watching this YouTube channel of the street minister and it the lord convicts my heart. The minister says it's the work ofthe beginning of the Antichrist .

    What is happening in our Christian society those are Christians see it I think we do see it more than others. Thank you very much and with that many blessings to all sincerely Minister William

  1. Minister William Jackson's Avatar Minister William Jackson

    I feel that is our God given right to where across of Christian faith but they do not complain about other religions where their symbols so what right do they have to fire her it is her reminder of the title across the same one now. Also it's coming to the point of some sports have to sign a contract to want to win or earn down the hundreds of dollars to know how to say or mention or wear anything to do with our lord Jesus so it comes down to what is it money or fame or Christianity.

    I've been watching this YouTube channel of the street minister and it the lord convicts my heart. The minister says it's the work ofthe beginning of the Antichrist .

    What is happening in our Christian society those are Christians see it I think we do see it more than others. Thank you very much and with that many blessings to all sincerely Minister William

  1. Minister William Jackson's Avatar Minister William Jackson

    I feel that is our God given right to where across of Christian faith but they do not complain about other religions where their symbols so what right do they have to fire her it is her reminder of the title across the same one now. Also it's coming to the point of some sports have to sign a contract to want to win or earn down the hundreds of dollars to know how to say or mention or wear anything to do with our lord Jesus so it comes down to what is it money or fame or Christianity.

    I've been watching this YouTube channel of the street minister and it the lord convicts my heart. The minister says it's the work ofthe beginning of the Antichrist .

    What is happening in our Christian society those are Christians see it I think we do see it more than others. Thank you very much and with that many blessings to all sincerely Minister William

  1. Minister William Jackson's Avatar Minister William Jackson

    As much as I feel in my heart I believe deeply that all pets go to heaven as they say or pets that pass or at the rainbow bridge with Jesus I believe that because I know some days Jesus wants to make us happy not only alive but when we have everlasting life he will have our pets with us.

  1. Reverend Gary's Avatar Reverend Gary

    The Bible tells us that,

    “A person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.”

  1. Timothy Newell's Avatar Timothy Newell

    There will be more of this to come in the Final Days. Christians will be appointed as pariahs. This wonderful nurse loved her job but was not willing to conceal her faith in order to keep it. We need more Christians like this! God bless her!

  1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

    Carla, you are the most ridiculous and idiotic person that it has ever been my misfortune to talk with online and your posts are childish babbling, so as to evade any reasonable and mature response to my and other people's posts here, which show that you aren't capable of responding to them sensibly!! It should just about be nap time there in kindergarten and so you can go back to sleep with the other kiddies!!

  1. Krystina S.'s Avatar Krystina S.

    The point was that this nurse would not conceal her necklace, such as under scrubs, DURING SURGERIES. Shame on her for demanding that others kowtow to HER and her demands that her necklace be SHOWN at all times.

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