A new study conducted by researchers in Belgium sought to find out how open-minded atheists and agnostics were compared their religious counterparts and the results were surprising. There exists a common stereotype that people who are highly religious are unlikely to embrace other points of view or different belief systems. However, according to the researchers' findings, those who hold strict religious beliefs are actually more tolerant than those who aren't religious at all.
How the Study Worked
Nearly 800 adults from the United Kingdom, Spain, and France were selected at random to participate in the study. The participants first gave their religious affiliation, then answered various questions to determine how tolerant they were of other belief systems.
According to the researchers, the findings illustrated that religious believers "seem to better perceive and integrate diverging perspectives." At the same time, these respondents were quick to acknowledge that they were probably biased because of their deeply-held faith.
Atheists and agnostics, on the other hand, consistently denied being biased against other religious beliefs. However, their answers showed otherwise this group displayed markedly higher rates of "subtle intolerance" than did the religious group.
Catholic Controversy
After the study was released, criticism began to mount concerning the motives behind it. For starters, the research was conducted at a major Catholic university, spurring claims that the results were predetermined by the powers that be. After all, critics insist, it's in their interest to paint secular people as close-minded. Claims of the Catholic university pushing a religious agenda were compounded by the confusing nature of some of the questions posed by researchers. Skeptics contend that the questions were meant to intentionally mislead participants into giving "intolerant" answers.
Can Nonbelievers Be Bigots?
Despite these assertions, no overwhelming evidence has emerged to confirm that the study was biased. So, for the sake of argument, let's assume the results are entirely accurate. What does this mean going forward?
For one, the findings fundamentally challenge the negative stereotype of religious folks as "bigoted zealots" who are convinced their path is the right one. If you ask the average person walking down the street: "who is more likely to be close-minded toward outside ideas?" chances are they'll choose a highly religious person over someone who doesn't ascribe to any particular set of beliefs.
But according to the study, atheists are not exempt from believing their worldview to be the only correct one. In fact, if the findings are accurate, they are even more guilty than religious people of assuming a "my way or the highway" approach.
Who Has the Right Answer?
In addition to measuring tolerance, this study also touches on a larger issue: which religion is the right one? It's a question that humankind has been struggling with since time immemorial. Is there one all-powerful God? Or perhaps many different gods? Is it possible that religion is simply a human construct and there is no right answer?
We may never know. However, the study's findings go to show that there is room for everyone to become more accepting of other belief systems.
384 comments
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Nix
That's funny, my atheist and agnostic friends along with other atheist and agnostics I've talked to, are probably the most tolerant people I've ever met.
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John Maher
THANK YOU CALEB, DUMP the IGNORAMUS TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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John Torregiano
John Maher. Your Intolerance and hate is showing. And for the record, so is your ignorance. You have NO VALID PROOF of Trump being a "ignoramus OR a "Traitor". What you do have is an opinion and a hate-filled, racist, treasonous Democrat party- AND a Democrat controlled "media" that is fueling the flames of violence and hatred with old Soviet-style techniques & propaganda. ALL just Opinions, slander and propaganda with an evil leftist, fascist agenda that is destroying a once-great nation. And we all know what they say about "opinions"....don't we.
Pasteur John
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Sherry Siler
That would be "Pastor." You've embarrassed yourself enough already.
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John Owens
Pasteur is French for Pastor. Just saying.
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dobe
Wondering if "pasteur" is a spelling for "pastor" that I've never seen used and that I don't see in a dictionary search. Please inform. Pastor, pasture, pasteur = not synonyms. Of what denomination are you if a pastor and from which seminary did you graduate?
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John Owens
Pasteur is French for Pastor. Just saying.
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John Owens
Only because they tolerate your lunacy, Hominis Minimus.
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revbarbarajadams
Thank you, John Owens.
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John Owens
My pleasure, Ma'am.
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Dan Rodemsky
That has been my experience as well. Atheists usually base their world view on provable reality, not some ancient book of mythology. When you think you only have one shot at life, you are more open to the idea of everyone living their lives according to their own views. If your world view comes from the creator of the universe you are more inclined to tell others how to live their lives.
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Ben
Well put.
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Brian Balke
You know there could be some wisdom in those ancient books. Try reading "let there be light" as photosynthesis, and I think that you'll see that Genesis is a crude description of evolution. When I read the trumpets of Revelation, I also see a recognizable description of the great extinction episodes. Those words were written thousands of years ago, long before the scientific evidence came along.
And I would suggest that the "Creator" does not tell anyone what to do - as should be evidenced by the existence of evil. What all the great religious traditions demonstrate is that He gives great power to those that choose to love. Recent examples in history include Obama, Pope Francis, and MLK, Jr. The hypocrisy that critics decry is actually a manifestation of strategies used in all human institutions to reallocate resources and moral authority for selfish ends.
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Canof Sand
I'm sure you'll continue to believe what you want, but your experience isn't supported by polls and studies. But of course, that doesn't matter to you, since all your views are... haha... based on... hehehehe... "provable reality."
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Edward
You have not met the ones I know. These people actually had shirts printed that read "Doing my best to p*ss off the Religious Right", "God is dead and so soon will his followers be". They have buttons on their lapels and hats also with that same message. In College classes they go out of their way to point out the believers and admonish their "dinosaur" beliefs. Any reply to them is immediately followed by the classic "homophobe, islamophobe, KKK lover, etc.".
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Ben
Interesting. In my 57 years, I have never seen such a thing. Not even in college - and I hold advanced degrees.
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Mark Araujo
remember you don't have to pay for gospels,miracles,healings,blessings,fakes,prayers,holy spirit.you learning something?if you knew the word scam/fraud/deceived that is whats going on always every where.
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Canof Sand
That's nice. Polling and studies don't support you.
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John Eftimiades
I'd love to see the questionnaire that was used and the evidence that it is a valid measure of how open minded a person is.
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Debra Huddleston
Exactly.
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revbarbarajadams
I thought that it was odd that it was lacking from the article, too. How can we believe what the author said without what the article was actually about?
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Rev. Gary Shade
Atheists are tolerant only if you validate their non-belief system. Otherwise they are judgemental bigots towards people who hold religious beliefs.
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Debra Huddleston
That may be your experience, but that's not true of all atheists.
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revbarbarajadams
Like all things, I am sure there are bad and intolerant atheists as well as bad and intolerant Christians, Jews, Islam, agnostics, whoever. The point is that not all are like that and clumping people into one mold is intolerant.
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John Owens
Exactly, John. Look at the blog on the baker who wouldn't bake for a gay couple. The "non-religious" people are the WORST bigots and they are actually religious. They just believe in something besides God.
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thomas
Yeah! It's NOT bigotry if my honest beliefs that gay people are awful compels me to not treat customers equally - they don't deserve it and it's my right. Amen! It's bigotry when they complain that they want to BE treated equally. Stupid bigot libtards!
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John Owens
Apparently you are just taking a side without reading the comments. The comments are what show the bigotry.
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Canof Sand
So, your position is that compelling people to do things they don't want to do is good and righteous? But you're NOT the bigots? You're NOT the tyrants? Those meanie Christians are the ones trying to (gasp) "legislate morality" on you, amiright?
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John Owens
Exactly.
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Los Guy
John Owens It is interesting that if we believe that the gay couple should have been treated equal we are bigoted but you think that being a bigot and discrimination is the way of worshiping God. Did you vote for Dictator Donald T Rump? Do you support the Russians helping Dictator Donald T Rump to corrupt our elections? Are you one of those that feel that only white Christians should be allowed to vote? Do you support Steve Bannon and his bid to destroy the Constitution (what he has said repeatedly)? Are you one of those that don't think? Do you belong to the KKK or other affiliated groups? Do you feel that the South should have won the Civil War? Does hate make you feel better...?
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John Owens
Everything you just said, Hollow Man, reveals the stereotypical bigotries of a leftist. You are completely delusional. If you would just take your medication and stay off the computer, you might get better.
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Los Guy
You are inside out with your thinking. You can't tell reality from fantasy, you call people names like a little kid, you defy the teachings of the Bible, the law and the Constitution. It would seem that you are full of hate which makes you a very pitiful and sad creature (as I can't really call you human), not worth posting to. It is sad that people like you bring so much hate and bigotry to America and nothing more. You don't think about anything because you have been programmed and are not in control of yourself and just like a robot you can only spew the garbage you have been fed all of your life. Compared to you Scrooge in his darkest moments was like an angel from heaven compared to you. Bye...
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John Owens
Arf, Arf! He doesn't have an honest bone in his body, but he loves to accuse others of having his faults. He knows a tiny amount but thinks he knows everything.
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Los Guy
At least I know the law and what the Bible says it is better than being a mindless robot like you are. I am not dishonest and I don't believe you are your just stuck in a loop of hate and you can't get out of it...
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John Owens
He won't CALL me a hater, because he doesn't want to be guilty of calling names, but he calls me a hater, just the same, when he is the one stuck in the loop of hate. I don't even hate my enemies. He hates himself so he makes enemies.
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Los Guy
John Owens your statements would be funny if they weren't so pitiful...
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John Owens
You are a stubborn loser, I'll give you that.
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Los Guy
What you can't grasp is that bigotry is not the pointing out of bigotry it is the act of bigotry or the support of a bigoted ideas or actions. As far as loosing goes I have neither won nor lost anything that is just a looser trying to prove that bigotry is not bigotry and discrimination is not discrimination...!!!
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John Owens
Well, every time I think there may be some glimmer of intelligence in you, you snuff it back out. If you'd talk with your brain instead of your intestine, maybe...
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John Owens
You said you know the law and the Bible better than I. Both lies. One is proven wrong. The other would be, if anyone else reads the blog.
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Don
Where did the cowardly spewer of online threats JOHN OWENS scamper off to? Little worm needs to be squished like the invertebrate he is. His poor wife...I'd bet a paycheck she gets sex on the side.
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Iconoclast
You're an awful little fellator, Don. You are stupid and boring.
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Don
Aww, what's the matter? No more threats, oh Brave Christian Warrior? Typical spineless ignorant religious blowhard. Drink bleach.
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Iconoclast
There are more things in heaven and Earth, Fellatio, than are dreamt of in thy philosophy.
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Don
Your fascination with developmentally handicapped child and male masturbation is disturbing...but not surprising from someone like you. Keep digging that hole, cowardly pervert who spews online threats from behind her keyboard.
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Iconoclast
"The Farts is strong with this one."
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Don
Grow a spine you maggot. Your wife would say the same, but her mouth is full at the moment,
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Iconoclast
Certainly fascinated with worms, maggots, unfaithful wives, and cowardice, aren't you, Don Cornholey? Projecting a bit much, I'd say.
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Don
"fascinated with worms"
Yes, spineless worms with strong religious convictions - people like you - fascinate me. It's a wonder your kind is even able to tie their shoes and get dressed without assistance.
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revbarbarajadams
You know, not once did I besmirch Barack Obama's name while he was president although I did not agree with his politics and what he did in office. Guy, you seem like you can only "make your case" when you include mean spirited comments. You just made John Owens point. You claim others aren't tolerant but you yourself are bigoted and intolerant. I voted for Trump but I am pro LGBT. I was sad for the person who did not want to bake the gay couple a cake. I have married many, many gay couples. I am white, Christian, and straight. I am also tolerant, loving, and recognize that we all live on this dirt ball together and it is about time when the name calling needs to stop and acceptance needs to begin. I will pray for you Guy.
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John Owens
Thank you again, Barbara. Guy makes all my points for me every time he comments. The only nice comments he has made on any of these blogs were to agree with other bigots that are bigoted the same ways as he is. I try to be honest without being judgmental. He tries to be judgmental without being honest, but only comes out as mental, like his little buddies.
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Los Guy
revbarbarajadams, you are right I am intolerant but not like you seem to think I am not intolerant of ideas I am intolerant of the actions that deprive any person of their civil rights (no I did not say religious rights). As far as I am concerned I do not have to be tolerant or civil to a racist, a bigot, a rapist, a murder, a child molester, a criminal. If you are on this short list I don't feel that being tolerant or civil to any one of these types of individuals is necessary. If you are a Muslim, a Christian, a Jew, a Hindu, A Buddhist, homosexual, straight person, bisexual, a person of color,etc that is your business not mine and I have no right to treat you any better or any worst than I would treat a friend...
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Norma Battes
revbarbarajadams,
You write an interesting post. I went through a number of them and found a few comments based on your following observations. " Guy, you seem like you can only “make your case” when you include mean spirited comments. "
These I found from Guy Warinner: 1. " ... Dictator Donald T Rump... " 2. " ...very pitiful and sad creature (as I can’t really call you human) " 3. " ...mindless robot like you are. "
These I found from John Owens: 1. " The dumber ones ..." 2. " John Owens July 19, 2017 at 12:41 pm " (Entire post) 3. " ... your lunacy, Hominis Minimus. " 4. " 'non-religious' people are the WORST bigots " 5. "... Hollow Man, reveals the stereotypical bigotries of a leftist. You are completely delusional. If you would just take your medication and stay off the computer, you might get better. " 6. " Arf, Arf! He doesn’t have an honest bone in his body..., " " He knows a tiny amount but thinks he knows everything. " 7. " He hates himself so he makes enemies. " 8. " You are a stubborn loser... " 9. " They judge and call names and it’s all good because they think they are superior. "(?)(!) 10. " The only nice comments he has made on any of these blogs were to agree with other bigots that are bigoted the same ways as he is, ...only comes out as mental, like his little buddies. "
Wouldn't you say(oh, you did) " ...it is about time when the name calling needs to stop and acceptance needs to begin. "
Good day, Reverend.
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John Owens
Gosh, Norma. Thank you for that BALANCED review! I'm not trying to start up again with Guy, but YOU are just reporting the news like NPR-- Leave out one side's occurences, and over-report the other's. Great job there.
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Norma Battes
John Owens July 20, 2017 at 5:57 am
Darn, I knew I should have included the metadata for each comment but cut-and-past was taking a long time.
Each comment for you and Guy (and the Reverend) came from your posts. At the time Guy only had 5 or so I believe. In any case I didn't mean to offend you, or to make the Reverend appear wrong. What I intended to show (besides hostile posts) was context over content. Most would overlook a comment or two for the most part, but over the course of time it's hard to remain neutral. And once that neutrality dissolves, rigidity and intolerance sets in.
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John Owens
He started out intolerant and rigid, and the WORST know-it-all. If you don't agree with him, you're ignorant. That's kinda the left's little game they play. They think if they keep acting like that, EVERYONE will agree, because NOBODY wants to be considered ignorant. It's pretty lame, but works on a lot of naïve people. I gave up trying to actually reason with atheists and lefties. I just point out the holes in their opinions so OTHERS who may not be so rigid do not become discouraged or swayed toward the left. The more they attack me, the more wrong they appear to be, so if I just keep them yapping, it's a win/win for me, and they LOVE to yap.
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Los Guy
John Owens, I started telling you that discrimination is against the law, against the Constitution and the Bible and you decided that I was wrong that Christians should have the ability to discriminate even though it is against the teaching of the Bible. It is sad that the truth hurts you so much that you started attacking me with you remarks. Well If you are going to be rude I will take it so long and then I will turn the tables. The saddest thing about you is your inability to think logically and rationally or you would have never attacked me but you don't so there we are...
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John Owens
Again, Guy. Just read your own posts, and then tell me you weren't arrogant and rude. Just try it. I don't think you will or even can, but if you do, you will see that you are the first jerk here. It just makes you want to cry because I am better with words and logic. That is not a great recommendation for me. You make it too easy. A) You are utterly convicted of your own superiority, which nobody else can see, and B) you act like an only child who is poorly socialized.
Again, you are NOT a Bible believer, therefore, DO NOT QUOTE THE BIBLE to me or try to tell me what it says. YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IT, so to you, it cannot matter. YOU CANNOT DICTATE THE INTERPRETATION OF THE BIBLE. It does NOT SAY a Christian HAS to accept a homosexual marriage. IT DOES NOT SAY THAT ANYWHERE, and you are picking and choosing to interpret it that way. I have not criticized homosexuals here. YOU are using your double standard. It is NOT LEGAL discrimination not to bake a cake for someone. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL. If it WERE, we would not be having this discussion. It would have been decided and ratified or whatever, and everyone would know it is the law. You cannot make it law by crying about it.
And again, YOU attacked me and ALL Christians and now you are trying to play the VICTIM, like all of your kind do. Again, you are incredibly stubborn and dense. DENSE. You rival LEAD in your DENSITY. The sad thing is, you CHOOSE to be dense. It is not as though I am criticizing you. I am PRAISING you. You have CHOSEN to be dense and you are working so hard at it.
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John Owens
The Russians did not help Trump and he is not a dictator and Trump did not corrupt the elections. There never was any evidence to suggest that and you are making up those accusations. No one in recent history ever said only white Christians should vote and Steve Bannon does not want to destroy the Constitution. Your remarks about the Klan and the Civil War are bigoted beyond anything I have ever said on the ULC blogs.
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John Owens
Just for kicks, I want to answer this again, point by point:
"if we believe that the gay couple should have been treated equal we are bigoted." That contains a lie, because I never said you were bigoted because you believed they should have been treated equal(-ly). You IMPLY that I said you are bigoted because of THAT. History shows: THAT was a lie.
next lie: "you (meaning I) think that being a bigot and discrimination is the way of worshipping God." Another huge lie. I never said that I think that, and never implied that I think that.
Next: "Do you (meaning I) support the Russians helping Dictator Donald T Rump to corrupt our elections?" This one contains two lies- A) that the Russians helped T Rump win, and B) that he is a dictator.
Next: " are you (Meaning I) one of those that feel that only white Christians should be allowed to vote?" Suggesting that I ever gave any reason to think anything similar to that is itself a huge lie.
"Steve Bannon and his bid to destroy the Constitution (what he has said repeatedly)" I never heard him say that, even once. Maybe you have eavesdropping devices that picked it up.
"Do you belong to the KKK,...?" Utterly stupid, baseless, except this is the really stupid way that leftists try to make their own hollow arguments sound better, by demonizing others.
"Does hate make you feel better?" Another big lie-- insinuating that I am expressing hate. Obviously, if anyone examines your post and compares it to mine, they can see, that you are the one hating, lying, inventing things about which to lie and reasons to hate, and encouraging others to hate without reasons. Completely hollow, hence, Hominus Cavus.
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Don
What a deceitful, evasive, cowardly little two-faced weasel. Hate MUST make you feel better - if not, why do you spew so much of it on this page?
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Don
"One is proven wrong"
Yes, the Bible has been proven wrong many times over. As someone who claims to know the Bible so well, it's very strange you did not know this. Almost as if you were a sleazy cowardly maggot trolling this page...
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John Owens
Tell me where the Bible has been PROVEN wrong and provide documentation.
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Don
HAHAHA!!! You need DOCUMENTATION to tell you the earth isn't flat and 6,000 years old? You need DOCUMENTATION to tell you a man cannot live inside a fish for 3 days? You need DOCUMENTATION to tell you that bats aren't birds and that 2 million species cannot fit into a 300 cubit wooden boat?
You don't need documentation, you need medication. You are nuts.
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John Owens
The Bible does NOT say the Earth is flat. It does not say the Earth is 6000 years old. It does not say bats are birds, and it does not say 2,000,000 species were fit into a 300 cubit ship. You don't know what you are talking about. Still, you want documentation that Chairman Mao, Pol Pot, and Ghengis Khan, Adolf Hitler and others killed millions.
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Don
"you want documentation that Chairman Mao, Pol Pot, and Ghengis Khan, Adolf Hitler and others killed millions"
Uh, no - they teach this in high school. I never asked for anything regarding these killers...other than the fact you ignore that Hitler was Catholic.
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Don
Poor John is about to get schooled on his ignorance of Scripture (again).
"The Bible does NOT say the Earth is flat." Isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. Matthew 4:8 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
"It does not say the Earth is 6000 years old." "there is a group of people that resist science and insist, based on a particular literal interpretation of Genesis 1-11 in the Hebrew Bible, that the universe is only 6,000 years old and was created in six literal days. As of 2014, 42% of Americans believe that the universe was created about 10,000 years ago"
"It does not say bats are birds" Leviticus 11:13-19 'These are the birds you are to regard as unclean and not eat because they are unclean: ... the osprey, the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat.'
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Don
crickets
Hardly surprising. Poor little Johnny must need a few days to gather the brain power to respond, since I used his own holy book to expose his ignorance. Sad, but funny!
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John Owens
Don, try to pay attention:
Isaiah 40:22 says the Earth is ROUND. YOU wrote that. Nothing in there says it is flat, so the Bible has not been proven wrong on that point.
Hitler wanted to return to the ancient Nordic pantheon, and Catholics are only nominally Christian as all their saints, holidays, and beliefs about the afterlife come directly from paganism rather than scripture.
Your paragraph about the age of the Earth has no scriptural reference. It refers only to people's beliefs. They try to calculate from the birth of one patriarch to the birth of the next and figure mankind's history that way. Carbon dating of biological material and potassium argon dating of stone are notoriously subjective and unreliable, coming up with different dates on the same items. Magma from a 50 year old eruption may show up as being 30,000,000 years old, or something else, depending on who is doing the dating. No real proof here either way, but the Bible itself never makes any statement about when was the original beginning, or the time span between "In the beginning, God (Elohim) created the heavens and the Earth," and, " the Earth was (the word translated 'was' can also mean 'became') without form and void (Hebrew- tohu and bohu, meaning barren and desolate). " So, the Bible has NOT been proven wrong on that point, either.
It is true that in ENGLISH the Bible includes bats with birds, but that is only due to poor translation by those who did the work. In Hebrew, all living creatures were referred to as naphesh or nephesh. Those which fly are flying nepheshes. That could also apply to bats. The translators translated flying nephesh as bird. Please, don't take my word for it. Look it up or ask an expert in Hebrew. So, the Bible has not been proven wrong on this point, although the English translators made a minor error. This is where skeptics make stupid mistakes, like where they mistake Nebuchadnezzar for Nebuchadrezzar.
BECAUSE of speciation, Noah would not have needed to take EVERY kind of camel, EVERY kind of dog, EVERY kind of bird, EVERY kind of bear, elephant, equine, anthropod etc. Two each of one kind-- kind representing genus and species-- but not every variation of a genus and species. Of course, from some kinds, he took by 7s and not just pairs. So, no, he didn't need 2,000,000 species on the ark. More like 50,000. The boat was about 500 feet long and 85 feet wide and 50 feet high, if I remember my Egyptian cubits at all. Of course Noah was before the Pharoahs but Moses wrote the book, so he wrote in terms he understood.
Just BTW, Joseph was recorded in Egyptian history as Inhotep. There are a lot of other things-- Hezekiah's conduit, which was lost until the 1940s, Jericho, which was lost since before the time of Samuel, the remnants of the chariots of the Egyptians are found right between the two columns Solomon had erected on either side of the Red Sea 400 years after the Exodus. Paul and Jesus are documented by Roman historians and Josephus. Archaeology proves time and again that at least the places and some of the characters in the scripture were totally real.
Now, if you will stop assuming you know more than me about anything, I will stop embarrassing you.
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Don
"Isaiah 40:22 says the Earth is ROUND"
No, it says it is a CIRCLE. Did you fail high school math? Circles are FLAT.
"Catholics are only nominally Christian" That's pretty much what every Christian sect says about every OTHER Christian sect. Predictable.
"BECAUSE of speciation" Just because you don't understand how biological evolution works (and your comment makes plain you have no clue) doesn't make it go away.
The rest of your pathetic excuses have already been used (and exposed) by religious charlatans for decades. Get some new material, your apologetics are as empty as your unsupported claims.
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John Owens
You absolute ignoramus. I understand speciation. YOU do not understand speciation. Since you are such a hopeless idiot, let me waste a few more minutes of my precious time on your pea brain-- You don't need ALL kinds of camels. One pair of the original camels can become one-humped camels, two-humped camels, alpacas, llamas, guanacos, and any other kind of camel. One of the original kind of elephants can become Asian elephants and African elephants. (the woolly mammoth may have been the original prototype. One pair of wolves could be bred into almost all manner of dog, over time, with attention to SPECIATION.
You are a little bit correct about a circle being flat-- IF IT IS DRAWN ON A PIECE OF PAPER. If you look at a photo of the EARTH, it is a CIRCLE from any direction or point of view, unless part of it is in eclipse. Do you feel stupid yet? You keep forcing me to show you how stupid you are. This is no fun for me, because I know you will not admit that you are an idiot, and I feel sorry for you.
I don't know what your point is about Catholicism, and the last paragraph you wrote is a flat lie. You've never even heard of half of those things because you are an IGNORAMUS.
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Don
" I understand speciation." Good, then you understand that several hundred thousand species of insects would be required on the boat - since they are separate species (not this fake nonsensical "kind" that Creationists use).
"If you look at a photo of the EARTH, it is a CIRCLE" No, it is an oblate spheroid. They teach this in 7th grade.
"Do you feel stupid yet?" At this point, yes, I do. But I hold out hope that some of this information will actually make it past your superstitious defense mechanism and sink in.
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John Owens
You almost admitted that I was right, Don. Keep trying. You might learn something. BUT, IN A PHOTO, OR A DRAWING, IT IS ROUND. Not spherical. You cannot draw a sphere and make it three dimensional. You are now just grasping at straws, being obtuse. You know I was right about everything, and it is eating away at your liver. Take an antacid and have a glass of red wine. You'll feel better
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Don
"IN A PHOTO, OR A DRAWING, IT IS ROUND"
Such cowardly evasion - I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Back to CIRCLE - as you like to say, John, GOOGLE IT. (is mathematics a sin to religious loonies???)
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John Owens
You are AMAZINGLY stupid. Such a little troll.
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Don
And still more insults...and still not ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE. Your claims are looking sillier and sillier with each cowardly, evasive comment. Keep digging!
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John Owens
You are the liar saying the Bible has been proven wrong many times over. You cannot prove it. You are the cowardly maggot trolling this page, to quote your own words.
Retard.
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Don
I love how the cowardly pervert John Owens continues to expose his own dishonesty and pettiness. Call me a retard again, just to hammer the case home. That hole you're digging must be halfway to China by now! LOL
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John Owens
Cowardly pervert.
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Don
yawn More insults, still no evidence. Do you speak Mandarin or Cantonese?
Keep digging!
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John Owens
Zhong wen-- Mandarin. Dan shi, ting de dong Guang Dong Hua-- Cantonese yi dian.
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Don
Every reply where John Owens spews anything but EVIDENCE FOR HIS CLAIMS just makes my case all the stronger. Keep digging! Remember to say 'Nǐ hǎo' when you get through! LOL
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John Owens
You don't give evidence. Give evidence that the ark is not in Turkey. You cannot. Give evidence the Exodus didn't happen. You cannot. Give evidence you are not an idiot. You cannot. "Almost as if you were a sleazy cowardly maggot trolling this page…" to quote your own words.
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Don
What kind of deceitful weasel demands proof of a negative?! Well, now we know - his name is John Owens, and he just did it THREE times. Prove Jesus wasn't a homosexual with a multitude of partners. Oh, you can't? So that means he WAS? Or did I just break through the stupidity barrier in your head?
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John Owens
Keep running that mouth. You DO realize you can be traced by someone who sets their mind to it, don't you?
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Don
And there's the threat I've been waiting for. Usually the slimebags you represent would have spewed threats much sooner. You just crossed a line, FELON. Watch your back. They'll be in contact soon. A shame you can't go back and delete your felonious comment. (posting threats on a public forum is not only a felony, it's Federal)
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Don
Come trace me and carry out your threat, Brave Christian Warrior! I won't hold my breath waiting, since you'd have to grow a spine first.
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Pastor Pete
Yeah, those guys tend to believe in a whole bunch of dumb stuff like equality and justice and compassion rather than some invisible magic dude. Real stupid huh?
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Canof Sand
The people who believe in "some invisible magic dude" (appeal to ridicule - a fallacy and blatantly evil bigotry) are the ones who INVENTED the system of equality and justice you pretend to believe in (as you violate its tenets).
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John Owens
I like YOUR comments, Can.
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talesfromthecorpuscallosum
As an atheist myself, my "intolerance" is of the behaviors of believers, not their beliefs. However, the intolerant beliefs of believers leads them to behave accordingly. Denying equal rights to LGBTQ persons, using religious beliefs as a license to discriminate, etc. THAT is what I am unapologetically intolerant of.
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Canof Sand
They've been denied no actual rights. Your ilk calling something a "right" doesn't make it one. As for what gives a "license" to "discriminate," THE CONSTITUTION DOES. Meanwhile, you want to compel people to violate their conscience on pain of prison. But Christians are the intolerant dictators shoving their beliefs down your throats! /s
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Chad
I wouldn't be surprised. However, this is really more so divisive rhetoric than it is a reliable study. Any active, adamant atheist finds it to be illogical to believe in a supernatural deity, therefore any "open mindedness" to spirituality wouldn't be honest - it can't be. And it isn't bigoted to be honest. Now, you may admit that you don't have the answers, and that's okay. But if you claim yourself, say, an atheist, a Muslim, or a Christian for example, you are claiming to know the truth. By principle - by design, that's how religion (and atheism) works!
All the buzz words in this story are obviously planted to demonize, presumably at first at least atheists, though by the end of the article, they're fair enough to kinda let you decide for yourself which diverse neighbor of yours is actually the bigot… "Can nonbelievers be bigots?"; "Tolerant/intolerant"; "...the findings fundamentally challenge the negative stereotype of religious folks as 'bigoted zealots' who are convinced their path is the right one." -- how ironic that this article is trying to shine a light on which group of people may or may not be bigoted and intolerant, all the while using words like bigoted and intolerant to define someone who simply has a definitive belief - not to mention blatantly over-generalizing and grouping subjects together based only on their religious affiliation. WHAT??!! This is all amazingly ridiculous and, well, kind of reckless.
If you think I'm being unfair, read the article again. You literally have no other option in this article than to consider a person who "believes their worldview to be the only correct one" as being guilty of intolerance if not a full-fledged bigot...
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Adam
I agree, having faith in a universal set of beliefs that automatically exclude other competing systems of belief is not bigotry. The bigotry comes about when that person begins placing value judgments on other groups, not judgments about the tenets of that faith, but judgments that lessen the other's humanity. We can have arguments and disagreements where we think each other is completely wrong. The problem comes if I begin to think and act as though you are less of a person because you do not hold my beliefs. All people can be (and at time are) guilty of that, regardless of faith or creed.
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revbarbarajadams
Chad, you are correct.
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Los Guy
I am an atheist but I don't believe either side has any more vitriolic members than the other. To an atheist it is the value of life, people and the planet that is the most paramount while theist have a God they follow. The real problem is the conflict on life, people and the planet. Most Christians think that God will fix it, God will strike down all of the evil men in the world. God saving the world has never occurred before, babies die of hunger or drowning trying to get away from war, people are bought ands sold, people cheat their friends out of all their money, relatives will go to any length to get the inheritance, BIG BUSINESS is raping the country for a bigger profit, politicians take bribes from BIG BUSINESS to put all of the onus on supporting this country financially on the lower classes, disastrous storms, earthquakes, volcanoes, floods, droughts, wild fires, etc. When in the world did God ever fix any of these incidents. Theist want to wait for God, atheist and agnostics want to do something right now before it is too late for our children...
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revbarbarajadams
Guy, if you are a true atheist, then you don't have a dog in the fight about what Christians think or don't think, believe or don't believe. Please don't try to box Christians into nice tight containers because we all think differently. If you have read the Bible, you would know that God doesn't say he's going to "fix it." He tells us He gave us free will to fix it ourselves. I don't see you saving the world, rescuing babies dying of hunger or drowning to get away from war, saving people from being bought and sold, or calling out individuals that cheat their friends from all their money. I just hear you whining about it. Do something. Become someone who protects these individuals that you say need it. And as for big business? I have never been hired by an unsuccessful or poor person. There is nothing wrong with being successful. And big business contribute to tons of charities that help millions of people all over the world. As for God, believe in Him or don't, that is your right. But stop complaining about everything and calling people names. You are alive. Hooray! Do something to make a difference, even if it is a small one.
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tkolter
As an Atheist ULC Minister I find myself surrounded by Christians and to a lesser extent other religions in power almost all the elected officials in the nation are religious, most in Congress Christian and think the Earth is 6000 years old and enough think the Bible is literally true to be scary to me. And even those who use the Bible as a book of morality is a concern since the book isn't good as a book of morals. So I won't 'give' an inch as will many other New Atheists we were quiet when they slapped In God We Trust on money and Under God in the Pledge and from experience if we give a little on a religious display in a public park then they will push more. So never again if the religious want to foist their religion into the public domain and into government and into the education of children and their indoctrination its WAR the truth of science and what we can see with evidence over - supernatural mythology - and we New Atheists will fight and keep it up until faith dies as a public threat. I'm not tolerant because most of the religious are at least deluded and at most dangerous and in the modern world there needs to be no place for it in public. Keep it private and at home and marginalized until they are as believers a small and discredited minority. I use my ministry to street minister in front of holy places and in public AGAINST faith and supernaturalism as MY ministry and its a good tool for that I can use the 1st Amendment religious special privilege against religion and faith I love the irony.
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John Owens
Nice rant, kolter. Hope you feel better.
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Los Guy
tkolter we must remember that most theist first have to believe in myths, paradoxes and magic (real magic like wave a wand) and feel that they are superior to everyone else because they are going to live forever. Can you imagine after a trillion, trillion, trillion years how board your going to be on your knees worshiping constantly without any break for all that time...?
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Norma Battes
hah What have you been reading?? You're funny Guy.
I've already lived a trillion, trillion, trillion lives. I'm a quantum physics-ian don't you know.
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John Owens
Guy, I have to commend you on at least part of that. Unlike Democrats, I believe in giving credit where credit is due. The typical evangelical believes that after death, they will do nothing but gaze upon the face of the Lamb, walk up and down streets of gold, sing Glory, Hallelujah FOREVER. Now that might be just wonderful for a few weeks. If becoming a spirit changes thought processes really drastically, it might be wonderful for a few years. At some point, though, a thousand years, ten thousand, a million--sometime-- that is going to get O L D . So boring, they would want to go to the mythical Hell for a vacation once in a while.
That idea of Eternity is not really Biblical. The real plan is much more interesting than that. It is more like making more planets livable for flesh and blood humans, and expanding the Kingdom forever and ever, as in Nebuchanezzar's vision.
I know you don't believe in any of that, but on this one point, I think your thinking is sound.
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Brian Balke
Guy:
Just so we are clear on the corollary: modern particle physics is undermined by commonly reported spiritual experience. Both sides still have a lot to learn.
Those that want to control other's behavior have made Christianity far too complicated. As taught by Jesus, it boiled down to: "Love. It is the most powerful force in the universe, and embodied in the only God worthy of worship."
Brian
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Brian Balke
Do you seriously believe that all religious thinkers in prior generations were delusional, hypocritical or psychotic in their promotion of spirituality as an essential part of the human experience? Spirituality is in every culture. You can argue that it's all in the brain, but to one that has a rich spiritual life, I know that isn't true. There are physical effects that correlate with the flow of energy. People feel it, and remark upon it even when I have no material contact with them.
Conversely, it is science that has given us the means to destroy the world around us, and materialism that convinces the greedy that their rapacity has no long-term consequences to them as individuals. I'd argue that the combination is incredibly dangerous.
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Los Guy
Brian Balke; No I don't believe the religious thinkers of prior generations were delusional, hypocritical or psychotic. What I do think is that they were basing their philosophy on archaic philosophical ideas and knowledge the problem is that times have changed and knowledge has also but the reality of Christians is their view remains archaic and without any substantial evidence except for the illusions of Christians...
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Norma Battes
Guy Warinner July 10, 2017 at 8:13 pm
You paint your viewpoint with some pretty broad strokes there Guy. Or maybe just add a few more colors to your pallet. I would think more than a few on both sides of the faith issue would find your comments disturbing, confusing and/or humorous(as I). If your beliefs are based mostly on reading, you may consider going out and talking with people. Do it rationally, softly and with an open and accepting heart and mind. Would be nice if they were also.
Simply put, what you describe here is a very old, and antiquated viewpoint of how religions worked. This is now. Although there are those that still adhere to those tenets, I find with the exception of some core beliefs, most religions are now quite flexible in regards to daily life. We are not all Christian radicals, or Muslim radicals, or radical radicals. You have not yet reached your destination - fare thee well.
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John Maher
I think EVERYONE is FULL of SHYTE and PROFESSING to be KNOWLEDGEABLE in ALL DOES N O T MATTER WHAT YOU BELIEVE in GET SMART GET HAPPY, SHADDUP and READa BOOK, ESPECIALLY Mr. John OWINS, the BLOG KNOW NOTHING, DUMP the IGNORAMUS TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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LtBil Drat
SoMeBoDy MaKE tHis, MAke seNse.
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Pastor Pete
I would say that generalisations are always a bit of a worry, lumping people into homogenous masses is surely a classic hallmark of bigotry. As has been stated above, if one holds a non-magical view of things, then anything mystical is obviously not part of this belief system, conversely a godless universe is outside the belief system of a religious person. This said, I'm not arrogant enough to think that I have any deeper knowledge of the workings of everything, so I don't hold my views to be anything other than just that. My views. I've witnessed just about the same level of intolerance in religious and non-religious people, because they are all essentially the same. Personally I think they're all worrying about it too much.
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mega
Atheist or religious....both possess the intolerant. Its ones up bringing and association that determines the path we choose. So instead of labeling either atheist or religious it should be 'human' or 'dumb ass'
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mega
To clafify by saying 'human' and 'dumb ass' i mean between tolerant and intolerant
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Ann Wood
How many human beings have been killed because of their religious identification? How many humans have been destroyed because they resisted adopting "christian" doctrine? How many children have died from hunger because of the tax money spent on spreading religion as opposed to feeding the populace?
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John Owens
Good question, Ann. Do you have any numbers on that? Or is just an imaginary thing? I don't think it is government's job to feed the populace OR spread religion. Government's job is to keep people from taking each other's food. Governments depend on people. People don't depend on governments.
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Norma Battes
Ann Wood July 12, 2017 at 6:45 am
Ann, separation of church and state. Government protects it's freedom(or should/used to) but doesn't promote it. However if you feel it's been bad up to now, read up on the President and Mr. Jeffress. And please read more than one article. (shhhh... Fake news)
Quick note on your first questions, I believe you might find greed and power are the base cause for religious folly and subsequent war deaths. You do know the Crusades, Taliban and such were not about religion? When the Catholic church tried to reign it's dominion over most of Europe it had nothing to do with God.
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Wicced Sarah Schultheiss
It is fascinating how the psychology needs religion, it has how we settle with the unknown things of life like death, group inclusion.... and our psychological need for religion/philosophy is what makes it so easy for religious leaders to control us, and if you believe there is no god you still have a belief system but the lack of belief in general is not what makes an atheist it is believing in god or gods, I am an Atheist but I do have philosophy and belief system.
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Wicced Sarah Schultheiss
oops, not believing in god or gods
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Qrez
I see absolutely no value in tolerating any faith based on abrahamic scripture they are at their core homophobic xenophobic and genocidal. any belief based on this core will seek to validity thus prop up this bigotry.
so if i am intolerant of those religions then so be it.
That said i try to hate the sin not the sinner as it where i.e i hate the actual religion not the believers.
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Alan Meunier
Instead of Europe I would like them to conduct the very same study, say in...East Texas. I'll bet the results are MUCH more different.
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Amber
Funny, in my experience they are very tolerant, just not terribly accepting when someone pushes it. Also bias isn't the only way a study can be thrown. The more vocal are the ones that will be heard and like it or not, those who are either angry or belligerent for whatever reason tend to be pretty negative and aggressive in their responses. Not all obviously but still, it is a trend. Texans tend to "Go big or go home!" so I'd expect if they did the same study elsewhere in this country or in another country they would likely get very different results. As for it being in the blood though... I think it's likely much more related to environment and education than dna.
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YHWH
Here's the paper, please link to it next time. I haven't even read the paper past the abstract, but this article already looks like it editorialized the conclusions quite a bit. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886917303070
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Dan
Is anyone really surprised by this?
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John Owens
Not I. I see their intolerance every day here and on FB. They judge and call names and it's all good because they think they are superior.
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Don
Could you imagine a serial rapist pretending to be a rape victim?
Meet John Owens.
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John Owens
Yep. You call people bigot and racist and maggot and it's all good because you are on the other side. What a two-faced hypocrite!
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Don
"Tell me where the Bible has been PROVEN wrong and provide documentation."
Oh, wow. You require documentation to tell you the earth isn't flat? You require documentation to tell you the earth isn't 6,000 years old, that unicorns are fictional, that a man cannot live inside a fish for three days...the list of absurdities goes on and on.
You don't need documentation, you need medication. You are nuts.
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John Owens
The Bible no place says the Earth is flat, Don. It no place gives the age of the Earth. It no place says Unicorns are real. There is a word translated Unicorn but the original language was referring to Ibex. Again, you don't want to document the bible being proven false, but you also ask for documentation that Chairman Mao was a mass killer.
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John Owens
So, you don't know what the Bible teaches and don't have any documentation that it has been proven wrong...gotcha.
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Don
"you also ask for documentation that Chairman Mao was a mass killer."
Show where I ever asked for any such thing, or apologize for yet another sleazy lie.
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Don
"It no place says Unicorns are real"
If by "no place" you mean EIGHT places, you would be correct. Your ignorance of Scripture is laughable.
Numbers 23:22 Numbers 24:8 Deuteronomy 33:17 Isaiah 34:7 Psalms 22:21 Psalms 34:6 Psalms 92:10 Job 39:10
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Don
crickets
Hardly surprising. Poor little Johnny, so deep into his own immoral behavior that he thinks his exposed lies are somehow truthful.
Sad, but funny!
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Don
"Paul and Jesus are documented by Roman historians" A sleazy lie, and easily proven so.
"and Josephus" Ah, the FORGED Josephus document that gets paraded as proof of an hisgtorical Jesus? Proven fake.
"Archaeology proves time and again that at least the places and some of the characters in the scripture were totally real." Archeology proves many of the places never even existed, and that the Exodus never actually happened. Oops! Darn those pesky facts!
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John Owens
Don, the Roman administrator Lucilius Senecus (Seneca) wrote about Paul, and Paul appeared before Seneca's brother in court, over the sect of the "Nazarenes". That is historical fact. You should google Seneca, and read some of the things he wrote. He was an administrator under Claudius Caesar and later under Nero, until Nero commanded him to slit his wrists. So just because you reject something you say it is PROVEN false. You lie, you love lies, you tell lies, you believe lies, and you live a lie. I still pity you, because you are a liar, and you choose to be an idiot.
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Don
Here, from some of the Biblical archeologists you claim to revere:
"The fact is that archeology can never prove any of the theological suppositions of the Bible. Archeologists can often tell you what happened and when and where and how and even why. No archeologists can tell anyone what it means, and most of us don't try. Yet many people want to know whether the events of the Bible are real, historic events. We want to make the Bible history. Many people think it has to be history or nothing. But there is no word for history in the Hebrew Bible. In other words, what did the biblical writers think they were doing? Writing objective history? No. That's a modern discipline. They were telling stories. They wanted you to know what these purported events mean. The Bible is didactic literature; it wants to teach, not just to describe. We try to make the Bible something it is not, and that's doing an injustice to the biblical writers. They were good historians, and they could tell it the way it was when they wanted to, but their objective was always something far beyond that."
Will logic and reason finally sink in with John Owens, or is his ignorance willful?
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Don
Another excerpt from the Jewish archeology team led by William Dever, Professor Emeritus at the University of Arizona:
"Is there mention of the Israelites anywhere in ancient Egyptian records?
No Egyptian text mentions the Israelites except the famous inscription of Merneptah dated to about 1206 B.C.E. But those Israelites were in Canaan; they are not in Egypt, and nothing is said about them escaping from Egypt."
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John Owens
Lack of evidence can hardly be considered Proof.
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gaffanonGaffanon
People are people. No matter what their beliefs. Some are bigots, some are not. There is a tendency for human beings to be intolerant to others beliefs, period. Right or wrong. However some people learn to accept that their beliefs are not necessarily that of others. Faith in something can lead to intolerance, its fear based. In the Us these days there is little tolerance for anyone with any opposing belief on anything,religious or political. we need to stop this shouting and name calling and get back to discussion. I see it even here. Look at some of the comments and the anger. It needs to stop, we need to go forward not go back to primitive base instinct, why can't we just talk anymore? And this study of questions has any of us seen the questions what if the questions are biased or the sample used was? One study does not make an absolute. another study may suggest the opposite. Statistics can be used to further an agenda or show bias.its like the old joke of three guys hunting one a statistician. there is a deer he shoots at it bullet goes to the left .Shoots again and it goes to the right. He yells "yay i hit it!", because statistically he did. Its over simplified but you get the point, I hope. forgive my typing I dont type well.
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Bill Fox
Atheists are very tolerant if you aren't a Christian or Muslim, and you believe in evolution, global warming, and the natural goodness of humans.
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Athiest Lite
Part of this may be in how people choose to describe themselves. I think I am Agnostic (never quite sure of the definition), but in a questionnaire, I will usually list Christian or protestant (my young background). I do not like being classed as an Atheist (although by strict definition, that is what I am). What I find troubling about self described Atheists is that they treat Atheism as a religion - and one that tends to be particularly intolerant. They (like the traditional stereotype of a fundamentalist religious type) do not tolerate people that do not share their beliefs. I think less rigid Atheists may tend to list their "birth religion" rather than Atheism on the basis that many are not so much into believing there is no God, than either not knowing, or not caring. For us, behavior and intent are far more important than belief.
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gaffanonGaffanon
agnostic by definition is a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God. what most people mean when they call themselves agnostic is they aren't sure which religious tenet to believe in. not the belief in God or a God.
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Athiest Lite
True (as I understand it), but if I call my self Agnostic or Atheist (it seems to make no difference) the more devout (both religious and Atheist) take it as believing that there is no God. The difference is critical, but for many, you either believe there is a God, or that there is not one. (Another point of intolerance, whichever side the person is on.)
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gaffanonGaffanon
most people dont understand the definition, but i think you are largely correct. the definition almost seems to be definition of A Gnostic, and gnostic beliefs.
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John Owens
Well-said, West Coast.
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Stefan
In my experience true spirituality makes you tolerant while dogma causes intolerance. Reading and searching the truth in religious text makes you tolerant while believing to know already everything makes you intolerant. Atheists can fall into these traps as easy as religious believers.
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Ronald Dumont
This is total NONSENSE! Religious individuals have not and do not tolerate non-believers period! They will be kind to your face, yet behind your back they are stating you are not of right mind and body! Non believer's do not belong here among them! Why must we tolerate those who believe in complete utter nonsense which use these invalid mystical demoniacal belief's to judge and separate us from their closed unethical immoral society and the society we live in as a whole!
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John Owens
Oh, but you libs always pretend to believe in FACTS! just as long as they agree with your dogma..
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Los Guy
And you conservatives always believe in lies as long as they fit your dogma, quite obviously...
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John Owens
Typical lib. Accuse the other side of doing what the libs are doing--ALWAYS. Just like the Russia flack. Then if you point it out, they say you are deflecting. It is an effective, if not clever way of continuing to be jerks without correction.
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Los Guy
John, you are so confused about reality it is pitiful...
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John Owens
I'd be upset by what you say if you knew anything about what you are speaking. I know you don't believe the scripture, but God said He would send strong delusion and you are a prime example.
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Don
Wow! I guess when you shine the Light of Truth on cockroaches like John Owens, they STAY scattered. Other than sending his boyfriend to insult me, not one peep from the so-called seeker of truth. I wish I could say I was surprised...
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Don
"God said He would send strong delusion"
No god ever said anything. But you seem to have received more than your fair share of delusion!
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John Owens
You delude yourself that anyone cares what you think.
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Don
And yet, like a mindless lemming, you keep responding. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic.
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John Owens
What does that make YOU, Mizz Donna?
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Don
Now watch Weasel Owens claim he's not sexist. Why do these clowns always deny and then almost immediately expose the exact opposite. Do they secretly WANT people to think they're sleazy and dishonest?
Therapy and medication - those are your last hopes. Don't give up.
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Don
Wow! I've given the two-faced milksop AN ENTIRE MONTH to come up with evidence for his insane claims - HE HASN'T EVEN TRIED! This would be SO funny if it wasn't so sad and pathetic.
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Lesley lux
I have talked to a few non believers of why they don't believe I took in their view without trying to change their ways .I give them my view of God and his wonderious giving of life and they didn't try to change my view..
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Patrick & Shirley Campbell
Here's an inside take on religious bigotry. I was raised in the '30's depression by a single mom. My father could not marry her because his prim Danish family did not approve of her being part Chippewa. Religion had never treated her well as an unmarried mother. She moved us from Wis to Minneapolis in '43 and I started 7th grade in Lincoln Jr. High, in a 90% Jewish neighborhood. I was in awe on Yom Kippur when only 4 or 5 of us showed up in class. The teacher carefully explained to me that Judaism was different from other religions.
Two years later we moved across from Franklin JH, in a Polish neighborhood. The boys knew I had come from "that Jew School", assumed I was Jewish, regardless of being named Patrick, and beat the Hell out of me as I started 9th grade. When Yom Kippur came and I showed up in school, I was suddenly 'OK'. I could only think inside, "You schmucks don't know any more about me today than yesterday......but today I'm OK."
In Sr. High, now 15 years old, I decided I needed to know something about religion and I set out in my best clothes to attend a few churches on Sunday mornings. I sat in back to be inconspicuous, but there always a 'Greeter' who would welcome me with smiles and pleasantry. Her face would visibly change when, in answer to her questions, I would have to say that I 'had always lived with my mom', who was working driving streetcar that Sunday morning, and that I 'didn't have a father'. I was already a good reader and I knew when Hester's "A" was being painted on my mom! One lady in a Lutheran Church called the Pastor over and he pleasantly informed me that if I joined the Youth Bible Study Group, I "still could be 'saved from my sins' and I would be OK". Lutheran, Moravian, or Catholic, it was all the same. These ' loving religious folks' all prejudged my mom and me without knowing anything about us. They were hypocrites and not worth my time.
The one group I drew close to were my Jewish moms back in Lincoln JH. Isaac (or others) would bring me home to play, and his mom, after an initial question or two, would teach me my first two Yiddish words..."Sit!, ... Eat!' ... and she would drag out wonderful strange foods, with no more questions needed. I was Isaac's friend and that was good enough for her.
Nothing has changed in my 86 years! The Washington religious right is showing no decent moral core and has sold its soul in the hopes of gaining control of the country. How can Pence and Ryan honestly look at themselves in the mirror in the morning? Reverend Pat
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Bill
"So, for the sake of argument, let’s assume the results are entirely accurate." That's quite a big assumption. How about another posting with "So, for the sake of argument, let's assume the results are not accurate."? By the way, I am not an atheist. I didn't talk to any Spaniards about it, but I do think individual tolerance levels highly individual and depend on too many factors to split up so simplistically as in "atheist/non-atheist."
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Scott Barton
I suppose discussion is a good thing but I would like to remind all of us that not one thought we hold is wholly true. No one knows the truth. It is evident in what is being witnessed to. All is interpretation of truth based on our perception and nothing more. No one is tolerant if they are judging/condemning. I understand that society must have rules that we are to live by so as not to live in chaos. But I also recognize the error of judgement when it blocks ones awareness of his and his brothers reality. Our judgments cannot create our or our brothers truth. Truth is there already just waiting to be recognized. Not one of our judgments can define our reality as God created it. We cannot make substitutes no matter how much we think we can. Not one of us is more holy than our brother. We are all intolerant. Intolerant of truth. Yet even our ignorance does not change our truth as God created it. He knows us as we are . I hope someone can find peace in that understanding.
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gaffanonGaffanon
This is not a discussion. It has denigrated into name calling and platitudes. I would have thought better of us. What happened to discussion? what happened to reason? Seems these days if you dont agree with some one else's view point, they are immediately attacked. No one is infallible. None of us are perfect. What ever religious tenant you subscribe to or dont subscribe to, read your Holy Book, None of them say anything about this hatred we have devolved into.The US has become polarized and if we dont stop there wont be a US much longer. We have become a joke to the rest of the world and the world has become way to small to continue this way. I go one other forums with religious leaders and believers from around the world, and everything is discussed until one person starts this crap and then i read oh its an American, and it always is. We are less educated yet we believe ignorance is just as valid as education. When did this happen?
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John Owens
Roughly when the DNC decided they would field the Kenyan instead of Hillary, I believe, and it has steadily gotten worse since then, reaching its peak when Hillary lost to Trump and her supporters still can't figure out why they lost so they either call names or label people so they can dismiss them. We on the other side cannot sit by and let them get away with it, so we have shown all the tolerance we intend to show. The harder they push, the harder we push back, and if it comes to civil unrest, they are doomed.
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John Owens
And, just to inform, education has more than one meaning. Too often it has become equivalent to INDOCTRINATION, rather than actually learning. In that case, ignorance of the substance of the indoctrination WOULD be superior to the indoctrination, and therefore ignorance better than education.
If education makes you think like an entitled spoiled brat, what good is it? If it makes you think you are superior to another human because you have a degree, what good is it? If it makes you think you are somehow superior to YOUR OWN PARENTS, and more knowledgeable than people twice and three times your age, HOW GOOD CAN IT POSSIBLY BE?
I would ask you, if ignorance is NOT as valid as education, why would you want to subsidize ignorance by creating a culture where young women are encouraged to have children by multiple men who do not function as fathers, thereby pretty much sentencing the children to ignorance and poverty?
If ignorance is not as valid, why are ignorant people allowed to vote? Why don't we have an ignorance test? I know why-- because people would say, if you don't agree with us, you are ignorant, and cannot vote. That is what both sides say about each other, and any third party says about BOTH the others.
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Los Guy
That is the problem with people with little or no education, they think that an education is evil. The reason for that is that most people that get an education (indoctrination and education are not synonymous or are they the same thing) stop believing in and worshiping mythologies. To help you understand the difference I put the definition up for you...
Indoctrination
noun the act of indoctrinating, or teaching or inculcating a doctrine, principle, or ideology, especially one with a specific point of view:religious indoctrination.
Education
noun 1. the act or process of imparting or acquiring general knowledge, developing the powers of reasoning and judgment, and generally of preparing oneself or others intellectually for mature life. 2. the act or process of imparting or acquiring particular knowledge or skills, as for a profession. 3. a degree, level, or kind of schooling: a university education. 4. the result produced by instruction, training, or study: to show one's education. 5. the science or art of teaching; pedagogics.
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John Owens
And you left out: INDOCTRINATION/ SOCIALIZATION. Those are not supposed to be definitions, but in reality, they are. Reference college teaching curriculum, School and Society.
They only think education is evil when they see college students rioting and wanting safe spaces and being racist against one another, and NOT wanting free speech for opposing viewpoints.
EVERYONE wants to learn and learn more. What they do NOT want is for their children to become insufferable socialists who think all problems are to be solved by more government and the government is to take care of everyone. Governments have NEVER done that and NEVER will.
If you measure worth by education, wouldn't a person with 2 PhDs be worth twice as much as a person with one? What about the poor shmuck with only a High School Education? You don't think that person can read anything that you can?
I was reading at a High School level when I was in fourth grade. I have always devoured books. I've read a lot of the classic stuff, Josephus, Matthew Henry's commentaries, Tolstoy, Orwell, Dickens, Tolkein, Lovecraft, Grisham, Jack London. I enjoy it.
I don't have a PhD. I married young, left Junior College to work and raise a family. Went back from time to time. Some at a two-year college, some at a four-year. I accumulated a lot credits but over a twenty-year span, and they were all over the place. Finally I applied for and received an Associate's in Secondary Education. That qualifies me as semi-literate to a lot of people who have entirely too high an opinion of themselves. I still earn more than most teachers, but I don't measure success in dollars, and I don't measure it in degrees. I measure it in happiness, satisfaction, comfort, respect.
I went to watch my children (31 and 34 years old) entertaining at the courthouse square in the town where their dead mother and I raised them. I was wearing my cut, and watching and listening to my kids. The mayor came over to schmooze me, and two of the police. Just to be seen talking with ME, the guy with the cut, whose kids were singing and playing. I have respect, and I worked very hard to get it.
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Don
Gee, I wonder why John Owens the Cowardly Pervert hasn't tracked me down yet like he threatened to last week. Could that have been yet ANOTHER lie from the spineless worm? Heh
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gaffanonGaffanon
This has been happening longer than that and both parties have a hand in this. But what has that got to do with common courtesy and decency. We used to discuss differences not call each other names and make fun of each other. If the country comes to Civil unrest we are all screwed no matter what side your polical leaning is.
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gaffanonGaffanon
You love to polarize everything but there is a major difference between ignorance and lack of education. Neither of my parents had beyond a high school education but they were far from ignorant. By your reasoning we also let the insane vote why don't we stop them as well. It's a circular arguement. You can not decide one person is more important and is allowed to vote than another. We have a constitution and it is being eroded. As for a culture of women having children by multiple men it's also a culture that does not value working hard and getting ahead it's also a culture where discrimination is rampant. There is no easy answer but this fighting amongst ourselves does us no good at all.
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John Owens
Well, I understand that, and you are correct about people having high school educations and being far from ignorant. That is my feeling. Each person is an individual and their ignorance or lack of ignorance is up to them. I also agree we should not think one person is more important than another, nor is their OPINION more important, except perhaps in the middle of technical questions, a person with expertise in say, electrical circuits for example, that person's opinion would be more valuable on an electrical question than someone whose expertise was in carpentry or welding. But yes, one person's feelings ARE as important as another's even if they are less knowledgeable about a given subject, as long as we base actions on reality and not feelings, and judge those actions by their fruits, and not be feelings.
I have known people with Master's Degrees who were much wiser and knowledgeable about most things than people with PhDs, and people with High School educations (which used to mean something, before college got to be such a big business) who are more truly sophisticated than people who have multiple Doctorates. The determining factor in having wisdom or common sense (not EXACTLY the same, but tend to run together) seems to be DISCERNMENT, and/or deductive reasoning, observation and rumination. I don't see a lot of that going on anymore.
As a side note, it may be part of a giant Catch 22, but you added to my mention of culture by saying "it’s also a culture that does not value working hard and getting ahead it’s also a culture where discrimination is rampant." If a culture doesn't focus on hard work, that is a very good reason to discriminate against that culture. It basically is discriminating against itself. If I was hiring for jobs that were not hard physical labor, I would hire over 40s, because of work ethic.
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gaffanonGaffanon
You are right a degree is only a measure of how long you stayed in school not about how much knowledge you have acquired. Knowledge also does not equate with wisdom. Seems the current younger generation not all but I've run across many, don't want to work hard or produce they want to be at the top now and don't feel they need to work for it. That being said jobs that pay well or offer advancement are difficult to come by in various areas of the country. With corporations moving the better paying jobs overseas because it's cheaper have contributed to this condition and we have companies like Wally World which don't pay well and we pay for their employees to be on welfare because they do not pay well. We have gotten a big government to control us, while corporate America runs over us with out checks.
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Alan
Atheists have been known to be less optimistic than believers for decades. Nothing new. Also, contrary to some of the above comments, Catholics are not 'intolerant' of anyone who has different beliefs or lifestyles. They simply do not want leftists trying to make any unorthodox behaviors forced on everyone else by government. (EG: A man can simply walk into the 'ladies' room' and not face kickback simply because he says 'he feels like a woman'. Do you really think most women (and young girls) are comfortable with that?) They would not be Catholic if they did. This does not mean that Catholics believe that certain beliefs or lifestyles are good, or even healthy. Catholics that know someone that has behaviors which are contrary to the teachings of Christ, simply pray for them. I do not know any Catholic who would ever slander or judge someone's personal approach to life. Catholics leave judgement to God alone. But it is clear that some lifestyles are clearly bad for people, such as alcohol and drug abuse, physical or mental abuse used against anyone and should try to help people with these problems because of the dangers and suffering they can impose on others as well as their own health and well being. Recent studies have shown people of faith are clearly more willing to accept their 'lot' in life, without blaming others if they do not have the material things and wealth others may have. One glaring example is that you will find that most on the 'political left', become angry and are willing to destroy things, riot, injure others, stifle speech, etc, when asked to do so. When was the last 'riot' or car burning or assault committed by a conservative (most of which are Christian) when there political desires were not met. NEVER.
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John Owens
Alan, I've read all your comments with great interest and I am glad to see you writing here. This blog needs more people who think like you, male and female.
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Alan
Thank you. I appreciate your comment. Alan.
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Alan
The statistical fact is that .03% (not 3%) of the population is actually homosexual. The political left in its' quest to define as many 'groups' as 'victims' of discrimination is the genesis of this entire debate. No sane person (in western society) ever really looked at someone wondering if they were 'gay' (with the exception of obviously excessive female or male mannerisms contrary to their physical sex), until the left made this an issue. The left has made the existence of gays and lesbians way more complex and anxiety provoking then it should have ever been. But it did get the 'gay community' to vote democrat, which is all the left was trying to do. If the left actually cared about people, they would not be trying to destroy the constitution, which protects all Americans from unequal protection, violence, discrimination, etc. The left has done nothing more for 'gay people than the emancipation proclamation did for African Americans. They were already protected by the constitution, but the south (a democratic monopoly whose sole purpose of its' elected representatives was to protect slavery and protect exports of cotton), but, because of their gross hatred and bigotry, it did take a horrific war to end it. (PS:: Lincoln wrote the Emancipation Proclamation, primarily to shame the British (largest cotton importer) from officially siding with the south and providing them arms.) Most people realize they can not help falling in love with or being attracted to the opposite sex. They assume gay people can't for the same sex).. It is just more misery and misdirection created by Marxists to create another enemy class (they call them gay bashers, etc-their term) as well as their go to enemies,such as corporations; the wealthy; conservatism; religion, etc.. The media has played a large part in exaggerating and exasperating the big lie, which is the food of the political left. Marxists must create enemies and division in order to play he part of 'the saviour', as they can never tell the public what their true goals are (One party ruling class). Look at Venezuala. They fell for the 'socialist' BS, and went from a wealthy country to eating from trash cans within less than 2 decades, and they used the same propaganda and division to get there. Today, Venezuala is having riots, bogus elections, starvation, political opponents imprisoned and being murdered. The current 'president' was there was a bus driver. Bernie Sanders (avowed communist/honeymooned in the former communist Soviet Union) was a Porn writer until he was 40. These are the types of miserable people pushing the lefts cause. Remember, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Castro, Pol Pot, etc all had to create divisions and hatred and remember what this has brought to the world.. LEARN to think before you act.
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Alan
PS: Socialists/communists are atheist as they believe 'smart people' (them) need to set the norm and peoples rights, not God. This is why they have been trying to banish terms like 'Merry Christmas' and nativity scenes in public as well as twisting the constitutions statement that the 'state shall create no national religion' which does not mean people in government are prohibited from practicing their religion as a government employee or publicly, only that the US can not do what Henry the VIII did. King Henry VIII did so (created the Anglican Church) simply because he decided he wanted a religion that allowed divorce. This led to the killing and jailing of Catholics and other wonderful things) THIS IS WHAT MAKES ATHEISTS SO INTOLERANT. They are miserable, jealous, greedy and hateful humans who feel left behind and want some way to artificially feel elevated from their miserable existence.
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patrick
Scattered thoughts...
I'm agnostic (former Catholic) and consider myself extremely tolerant of all religions. I find that the further one is along the religious spectrum, the less tolerant one becomes. A generalization and not also true for all people, but when someone is so deeply entrenched in one religion, I often find their religious lens to be thick and permanent.
"I don't believe in God." - The shock, disappointment and to some extent, pity, that I receive when saying this from religious folk still surprises me.
I have my issues with organized religions. Follow the roots. Follow the money. Follow the power. Athiests/Agnostics are not controlling people, taking advantage of the poor, or masking the invasion and conversion of foreign communities as missionary work.
With that said, I respect, to the fullest extent, the right of all people to have faith and to be spiritual. At its core it really is a beautiful thing.
Lastly, I think it will help everyone in this discussion to truly understand what tolerance means. It does not involve love.
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John Owens
Wow, Patrick. Your comments are kinda nice, and deep. Thank you.
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angel
Hate breeds hate and that's the bottomline.
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I.S. Johnson
Hate is hate. Fear is fear. Getting all bogged down in minutia trying to parse hairs over hate is a waste of time. Fear breeds hate and intolerance. Instability breeds hate, intolerance and self-centered fear. Self-centered fear leads to factions forming of similar groups, who then spread fear and hate towards all non-members to increase the unity of the faction. In other words, most of human history so far. Unity of community, shared burden for the good of the whole and Direct Democracy would be a good start for a change. Humanity seems to still want to behave like shaved chimps at this point. Those of us who are working forward can only do the best we can. Be the change you wish to bring to the world, even though it may break your heart, never let it break your faith. That is my two cents.
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XaurreauX
There are definitely intolerant atheists and I know BOTH of them.
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Alan
All of the critics are missing a very BASIC point. Absolutely atheists are less tolerant people. They are by nature materialists and likely to be the ones who develop jealousies over other peoples possessions, more likely to steal, lie, cheat, commit adultery simply because of their mindset that if no one knows, there is nothing wrong with it. No guilt. No blame. And they generally assume people with more possessions then they have must have cheated to do so, so they often feel they have to cheat harder. These are facts. This happens because those who are brought up with religious conviction and believe in God understand (right or wrong - your choice) that nothing is done in 'secret'. You will be held accountable. And some of the most basic principles of Christianity are humility, charity, love of your neighbor (all people) and tolerance of the differences people have. If you are an atheist, you have no problem with abortion, euthanasia, lying to the public (if YOU believe it is for the 'right' reasons.) All of the worlds worst governments in modern history have been atheist and either completely banned religion, or had government operatives working within the church to control the message. Iran and any other 'Islamic' states are perceived to be a religious states. "ISLAM" is a form of governance and always has been, although it has all the trappings of a truly theological system. It is not. Its' laws are based solely on the koran and the punishments in the koran are inflicted by sharia courts. These are fascist countries in the guise of a religious democracy/Patriarchy controlled by clerics and commit barbaric acts in the name of religion. These people are not the exception, they simply are not a true religion (It is a government). If you do real world analysis, you will find that it is almost always the religious who have sacrificed themselves for others, provided for the poor (and not through a bogus charity), freely given their time to travel to remote places to treat the ill and educate the illiterate. Keep in mind, the Catholic Church invented universities, the public school system and public hospitals. And the places were built by the money and sweat of the people in the communities they lived. I know of no atheists who have ever taken on any acts of charity like this.
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John Owens
Right on, Alan. Of course you are going to be called a bigot for your honest and thoughtful writings, but Hey, we know you are correct, so the goons can just babble on.
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John Owens
Yeah, Chairman Mao and George Stalin, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot, Ghenghis Khan, Attilla the Hun, Mohammed, they never caused anyone to be killed.
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Don
"George Stalin" - AHAHAHAHAHA!!!! For a moment I thought John Owens was just pretending to be an idiot superstitious clown, but he proves right here he's the real deal!
It's JOSEPH Stalin, genius boy. At least get the NAMES right, sheesh! .
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John Owens
Ah, well, I don't suppose having two telephones ringing and customers and co-workers talking might have influenced that little slip, do you? Of course, you wouldn't know-- YOU DON'T WORK. The fact that I made that slip does not alter what I said.
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Don
And now the maggot clown boy is making excuses for his own stupidity. I wish I could say I was surprised, but all these religious weasels act the same ignorant arrogant way. Thanks for proving it with every comment.
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John Owens
Again, I'm really sorry you are so bitter, but I revealed you in three lies faster than you can download an adult in diapers porn clip. Just quit while you're behind, Don.
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Don
So just who the heck IS George Stalin? You repeated the same name six friggin times on this page alone, so it's not just a typo. So, out with it!
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John Owens
Another lie. I didn't REPEAT anything six times, Donny the petty liar with nothing better to do than lie and exhibit your little man-crush on me.
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Don
"I didn’t REPEAT anything six times"
The comment below appears six times on this page with your name attached to it:
"Yeah, Chairman Mao and George Stalin, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot, Ghenghis Khan, Attilla the Hun, Mohammed, they never caused anyone to be killed."
OOPS! Another lie from John Owens the spineless little worm.
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John Owens
only because you keep copying it, you twit.
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Don
"I’m not the least superstitious"
COUGH These are YOUR OWN WORDS you lying snake:
"The real plan is much more interesting than that. It is more like making more planets livable for flesh and blood humans, and expanding the Kingdom forever and ever, as in Nebuchanezzar’s vision."
Um...do you have any numbers on that? Or is just an imaginary thing?
Poor John, having his very own words used to expose his lies.
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John Owens
Again, TWIT! Nebuchadnezzar's vision is explained by Daniel. If you are too ignorant to read it, it cannot be explained to you, Liar.
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Don
"Magic visions make superstitious nonsense believable" - said no sane person ever.
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Don
Aww where did John run off to? Come back Owens, and tell us more about George Stalin! LOL
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John Owens
I didn't "run off" you twit. I go home, and this blog is tied to my work email, so I don't look at it during the week. It's so funny you keep hammering on Stalin, because that's all your weak, lying pea-brain has.
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John Owens
Another type-o, since I do this WHILE I AM WORKING. I meant to say I don't look at this blog on the weekend.
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Don
So no evidence for your magic boat that defies the laws of physics? Or will you use the same old excuse 'I went home" again? You DO realize there are these things called home computers? Smart phones? Or does the basement block the signal? ;)
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John Owens
See? You imbecile, I didn't say I don't have computer and internet at home. You can't even read well. I just don't have access to my company email at home. I also never described a magic boat and you don't know the laws of physics. It is amazing how brave you get when you think I have gone home for the weekend. Pretty brave for a chicken.
Amazing how often you use the word "sleazy". Apparently you have no idea of the lexical definition of the word, or you have no compunction about its correct usage.
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Don
Amazing how often you respond with insults, yet never seem to be able to find the evidence for the various claims you've made. Now you're even denying the claims you made about Noah's Ark, even though they're all still on this very page. Keep digging that hole!
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John Owens
More lies from a maggoty liar. Why do you keep popping up like a stubborn hemorrhoid? Crawl back into the dead cow where you live.
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Don
Golly, I did not realize John Owens had such a problem with hemorrhoids. Perhaps that explains his nasty demeanor. Nah, even hemorrhoids don't make someone a two-faced twit. Maybe his wife knows...
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Don
Since Mr. Owens ignored this comment and keeps claiming I never presented it: (it's on this page TWICE now - let's see if poor Johnny can find it now)
Another excerpt from the Jewish archeology team led by William Dever, Professor Emeritus at the University of Arizona:
“Is there mention of the Israelites anywhere in ancient Egyptian records?
No Egyptian text mentions the Israelites except the famous inscription of Merneptah dated to about 1206 B.C.E. But those Israelites were in Canaan; they are not in Egypt, and nothing is said about them escaping from Egypt.”
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John Owens
That "scholarly" evidence came off a National Geographic video which was on YouTube. I did answer it, though. Egyptian cover-up. They went to great lengths to cover up any history or historical figure of which they did not approve. This work ignores the granite columns placed on either side of the Gulf of Aqaba by Solomon, 400 years after the Exodus, and the coral formations made around the broken chariots of the Egyptian Army, the stone dais on which stood the golden calf, the rock which split, the altar with 12 pillars, and the extensive written histories of the Israelite kings, and some corroboration from Jordanian and Arabic historical sources. The scholars on the National Geographic video conclude that the Israelites were, in fact, Canaanites who escaped back to their own homeland, borrowing the name and stories of a Midianite deity, blah blah, blah.
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Don
"Egyptian cover-up" AHAHAHAHAAA!!!!!! The reason it's so funny is twofold - 1) you HAVE NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THIS CLAIM and 2) it's the SAME UNSUPPORTABLE CLAIM MADE BY YOUNG EARTH CREATIONISTS!!!
You know, the Young Earth Creationists who claim the earth is 6,000 years old. Or are you now going to claim you've never heard of them?
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John Owens
You don't know the Egyptians would strike the names of people fallen into disfavor from their monuments? Tearing down monuments and building new ones, or chiseling over the names? Even the people who make movies know that. You really ARE too ignorant for this conversation.
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Don
"You don’t know the Egyptians would strike the names of people fallen into disfavor from their monuments"
No one KNOWS that - not the particulars of who was struck down- because you HAVE NO EVIDENCE FOR YOUR CLAIM.
Now watch the clown demand proof of a negative AGAIN. Such idiocy should be illegal.
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Don
"I do this WHILE I AM WORKING"
What a great work ethic you must have. So that IP address belongs to your boss? Do they know what you're doing at work? Well, they will now!
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Don
Gee, I wonder why John Owens the Cowardly Pervert hasn’t tracked me down yet like he threatened to last week. Could that have been yet ANOTHER lie from the spineless worm? Heh
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Don
With every comment the sleazy hateful little worn John Owens just proves how beneath regular moral people vermin like him really are. Go burn another cross or shoot up another school.
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John Owens
Name-calling and lies. I've never given you any reason to think I do anything sleazy, never been to a Klan rally, never shot up a school. More lies from a liar. Lie, lie, lie. Little Donny the hysterical little girly-boy liar. Get your mom to change your diaper and take your nap.
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Don
"You lied again, calling me potty-mouth"
cough cough The Truth shall set you free...
"The dumber ones" "snotty and belligerent and bigoted and intolerant" "blow that smoke up your own backside" "You are like any leftist moron" "Donny the hysterical little girly-boy" "Get your mom to change your diaper"
Another day, another spineless maggot exposed. Way to represent your ilk, John Owens!
(but still no actual threats, that's surprising from your kind)
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John Owens
Right. You just proved you are a liar, your own self. None of that qualifies as "potty-mouth" . Now, I dread what kind of foul nonsense you are going to reply, but what do you consider "my kind" to be? Seeing that you are so mistaken about everything else you have expressed so far, you cannot possibly have a clue about "my kind".
Do you mean, white heterosexual patriot? Do you mean honest hard-working family man? Do you mean hard-riding biker and MC patch-holder? Do you mean world-traveler? Do you mean good, honest, tax-paying citizen? Rock and roll fan? I'm sure you don't. I don't think you even know what you mean. I'm sure you'll come out with some baby-talk, because your little demon has chosen ME to torment today.
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Don
Aww, did the Brave Christian Warrior flee again after spewing more cowardly insults? What a SHOCKER! LOL
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Don
Exposing religious charlatans and hatemongering hacks like John Owens is only fruitful if others are made aware of the lies and deceit coming from sleazy con men like this,.
Taking care of that now.
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John Owens
Here are a few of your lies.
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John Owens
BTW, calling me sleazy is a lie. Calling me hateful is a lie. Calling me a little worn would be true, if that had been what you intended to write. Let's see, vermin, nope. Cross-burner, nope. I actually hate crosses. Shoot up schools, don't know from whence that came, but nope. Just lies from a liar.
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Don
"Here are a few of your lies." Yes? Still waiting...are you searching for them, or making up new ones? Exposing this two-faced clown is too easy. Try harder John!
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Don
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” -- Carl Sagan
(now watch John ask for evidence that Carl said this)
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Don
I love how John Owens, after attacking multiple people on this page with his cowardly vile insults, is now playing the victim. Time to grow up and put your big boy pants on.
Toodles!
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John Owens
Mentally, you are like little Chihuahua yapping, and so very vain and immature, overly sensitive, exaggerative, dishonest, neurotic. You really should seek help.
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John Owens
Who are the multiple people on this page I have attacked with "cowardly vile insults?"
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Don
"Who are the multiple people on this page I have attacked with “cowardly vile insults?”
Does religious belief cause memory loss?? No matter, just SCROLL UP you idiot.
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John Owens
A) DONkey, I never ATTACKED anyone. B) I have neither done nor said anything cowardly. C) You are the one who says vile things, not I .
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Don
More insults...still not one shred of evidence for any of John's superstitious...er, I mean, Biblical claims. Can't really say I'm surprised.
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John Owens
Funny how you tried to flip everything. I called you on your Madelyn O'Hare crap, and you lit in with name-calling and lying. I proved you're a liar over and over, and you are too stubborn and too retarded to admit. A real loser nobody with nothing better to do. I'm trying to work, here, but of course, you are too disabled to do that. YOU haven't proven ONE thing you have said, because you're an idiot. You can't even prove you're not an idiot.
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Don
"I called you on your Madelyn O’Hare crap"
Called me on what? It's an authentic, verbatim quote from her. Google it, you idiot. Now, about the evidence for your magic boat...er, I mean Noah's Ark... Where is that hiding and why can't you find it?
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Don
Figures - the hatemongering sexist bigot is also not above denigrating people with developmental handicaps. Only an ignorant weasel who needs his cowardly teeth knocked out uses the word "retarded" as you did. Thanks for, once again, exposing what you really are, spineless pervert.
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John Owens
You quoted her, but no proof any of it was true-- then you started with the name calling, because you are retarded.
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John Owens
And there is no way to bring a mountain in Turkey to this blog, you imbecile.
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Don
"there is no way to bring a mountain in Turkey to this blog" Right. Because you would actually have to physically bring a mountain to an online blog to prove the claims you've made.
(and this clown calls ME retarded!)
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John Owens
Yes, he does, and he is being kind.
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OK
Be sure to thank the Catholic church for burning heretics at stake. You are making an absolute fool of yourself.
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John Owens
Yeah, Chairman Mao and George Stalin, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot, Ghenghis Khan, Attilla the Hun, Mohammed, they never caused anyone to be killed.
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Don
"George Stalin" Too funny! I wonder if John Owens can tell us who George Stalin is. LOL
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John Owens
You leapt on the little mistake and totally ignored the huge truth in the sarcasm of my statement. Ignoramus!
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Don
Ah yes, the "huge truth"...I'm sure, since you declined to post any supporting evidence for your claim, that your truth is so huge it's "bigly". (and this inbred mongrel calls ME the ignoramus). Dunning-Kruger Effect, anyone?
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John Owens
Why don't you make up some more lies about me, Donna?
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Don
Why don't you make up lies about Noah's Ark and the Bible...oh, you did! How cute - sorry they all got exposed as more sleazy lies, but you already knew they would. You're not THAT uneducated...are you? .
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John Owens
I haven't told the first lie, but you have told many, AND YOU CAN'T STOP.
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Don
"I haven’t told the first lie"
No, just the first dozen or so. But enough cowardly evasion, show us the scientific evidence for Noah's Ark you just claimed (and the youtube video is HILARIOUS, but doesn't contain any evidence).
So, evidence or SHUT UP. That is, if you have any integrity left.
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John Owens
You are the one who offers no evidence, Don. You don't know the Bible, can't read or reason, obviously. You accuse me of saying and doing things I have not done. You lie repeatedly, over and over, while accusing me of doing it. And all you do is try to insult, because you have nothing else-- no reason, no evidence, nothing.
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Don
Not a shred of verifiable evidence, but a plethora of lame insults. Typical - thanks for being so predictably dishonest, John Owens the Sleazebag.
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John Owens
More lies and name-calling from an ignorant name-calling liar.
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Don
And even more insults...still no evidence. yawn Next he'll claim he met Bigfoot. (and then deny it two comment later!)
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John Owens
Don, if you tell a lie, and I say it isn't true, that does not mean I said something untrue, but just the opposite. You are incapable of correctly repeating or interpreting anything that is said, because you are mentally challenged because of your own helplessness and inadequacy. I pity you, but you should really find something to do besides try to torment people more intelligent and rational than you.
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Don
Aww, poor John. Did George Stalin steal your magic boat evidence? Is that the reason for all the cowardly evasion and insults? LOL
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John Owens
Retard.
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Don
I wonder how often John Owens stalks grade school playgrounds, given his…challenged vernacular. Perhaps the authorities should keep an eye out.
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Iconoclast
Are you that uneducated that you don't know these people caused millions and millions of deaths?
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Don
Fictitious persons have never caused anyone's deaths. A typo is one thing...when you repeatedly use the same "typo", then it is no longer a typo. Are you that uneducated that 6th grade English class is beyond you? Does religious belief cause this type of brain damage, or is there another reason for your disfunction?
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John Owens
Again, you kept copying and pasting it, and you are the ignoramus. I mis-typed one name, and you deflected the WHOLE conversation to your helpless, hysterical tirade. That is what weak and weak-minded people do. There were several names not mis-typed, and everyone knew who I meant, anyway. The fact that you and those who were talking about how bad christianity is did not think of those characters, and then you seized on that one small error to deflect all thought away from those NON-Christian murderers shows what a shallow puddle of poop your brain is.
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Don
Notice that John Owens, the "brave Christian soldier" is defelcting and hiding from the fact that his "truths" have been exposed as lies and groundless superstitious nonsense.
Again, it would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic.
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John Owens
You havent' "exposed" anything except your own inadequacy, Don. Try doing some kegels this weekend. Maybe it will help your little seepage problem.
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Don
crickets When the apologetics are exposed as garbage, I guess running away with your tail between your legs is the only option. There's a lesson to be learned here, kids.
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Don
You...you actually tried to posit the historical accuracy of NOAH'S ARK? So you'll believe in a silly magic boat that defies the laws of physics, but not unicorns. You are certainly special!
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John Owens
The ruins of the ship have been located, and if you do not believe, google Ron Wyatt and Noah's Ark on You Tube, and look at the Turkish officials there with him and how much more advanced the ship was than anyone imagined. Also at first, they thought the ruin was bigger than Noah's ship because it was 500 feet long, but then they were figuring on a Hebrew cubit and not Egyptian. Moses recorded the story and Moses was educated as an Egyptian. If you don't watch it, it is because you are afraid and you want to remain ignorant.
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Don
"The ruins of the ship have been located," --- HAHAHAHAHA!!! Oh, you were serious AHAHAHAHAA!!!!! It's a FAKE!!! AND THERE ARE SIX OTHERS! HAHAHAH!!!
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Don
"Ron Wyatt and Noah’s Ark"
The same Ron Wyatt WHO CLAIMS THE EARTH IS 6,000 YEARS OLD?! YEP, SAME GUY!
Oops! Better vet your sources, John, you just got owned.
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John Owens
Did you watch it? NO. Can you prove it is a fake? NO. So, can you actually say what you are saying with any certainty? NO. Does that mean you are a liar? YES
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Don
LOLOL!!!! You JUST SAID the 6,000 year old earth was nonsense and not Biblical - AND THEN CITED A SOURCE WHO CLAIMS IT IS!
Feeling stupid yet? Because you are looking more foolish (and dishonest) with each new post.
Keep 'em coming!
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John Owens
You just wish you could OWN me, you moron. The age of Earth has nothing to do with the ship. You seem to have an attention deficit. A video documentary is a video documentary. You still cannot prove the ship was not built. You just did it again. You tried to tie the ship to the age of Earth. You obviously are insane. You cannot follow a story line but keep jumping to other things, like a meth-head.
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John Owens
Shot holes all in your ship of warped logic again. Now I have to go for the weekend. I'm sure you'll yap like a Chihuahua but the more you talk the smarter I look, and it is you doing it. Not me. You just keep on and on, and all you have is empty snarkiness with no substance.
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Don
"You tried to tie the ship to the age of Earth."
No, you clown, YOU DID THAT. Next time try vetting your sources before posting them.
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Don
"Now I have to go for the weekend"
It's the 21st century. What type of incompetent clod doesn't have home online access?
Well, now we know!
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Iconoclast
"Frankly, Fartstick, I don't give a damn!"
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Don
Aww, did the Brave Christian Warrior lose her spine again? So much for your empty threats from last week. Got your IP though, thanks!
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Iconoclast
You don't have anything, but I'll be vacationing next week with my programmer son. We'll just be dabbling with the computers and cell-phones. I've been trying to reroute my notifications on this blog to one of my emails so I can keep up when I'm away. He writes code for games and remotely repairs casino games. But, just keep pretending you are brave.
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Don
It's so cute (and predictable) how John Owens finds the time to come back here and spew insults like a sackless worm, yet still can't find any actual evidence to back his magical claims.
It would be funny if it wasn't so sad and pathetic.
Show us your true colors, Johnny Boy.
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Don
Keep showing us just how loving and tolerant you are, Johnny Boy!
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Don
Wow! EIGHT MONTHS and still not a trace of John's magic boat evidence. I'm sure it's hiding right next to his "concrete evidence of intelligent design" he claimed to have on February 18. Or non-existent. ;)
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Don
More insults, still not ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE for your specious claims. Keep digging that hole! This is hilarious watching you squirm.
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John Owens
Just watched the documentary again. Pretty convincing. And you're still a trolling ignoramus.
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John Owens
The guy from Jet Propulsion Laboratories, who analyzed metal fragments from the site was fairly convincing. The Turkish officials did not detract either.
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Don
I wonder how often John Owens stalks grade school playgrounds, given his...challenged vernacular. Perhaps the authorities should keep an eye out.
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XaurreauX
Atheism is a philosophical position regarding belief, in this case, the lack of belief in a god(s). It is not nor is it intended to be a belief system, a set of ethical values or a truth claim. I don't have to defend my lack of belief in god any more than members of the Abrahamic faiths (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) have to defend their lack of belief in Krishna- Rama.
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John Owens
Gosh. Is someone trying to force you to defend your lack of belief? Who was it?
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XaurreauX
If you hear anything let me know. ;^]
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Iconoclast
The Granite Columns of Solomon--https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/legacymodel.htmlid=ad4e28cd5baf9be0369f373707b88869&legacyredirect=backend https://fabweb.org/2016/05/11/the-real-evidence-of-the-crossing-of-the-red-sea/ https://redseaexodus.wordpress.com/2013/01/07/solomon-left-pillars-to-mark-the-site-of-the-red-sea-crossing/
Just an FYI, Solomon lived about 400 years after the Exodus, and he had these erected, possibly foreseeing that people would lose track of the location or disbelieve the story, as they now do. On the sea bed between them, there are coral structures built around the remains of ancient chariots and their wheels and axles. Of course, Solomon could have had chariots carried out and sunk there, just to perpetuate a myth, but you'd think he'd have had better things to do than make myths. He WAS a real king and famous in his day.
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Don
"He WAS a real king"
Yes, and Manhattan is a real island, and New York is a real city. That does not mean that Spiderman is real.
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Iconoclast
Honestly, John, this dweeb is like persistent hemorrhoid. He won't stop until you do--not saying you should, but he's just crying for your attention. I think he wants a bromance with you. Look at how stupid his idea of logic is, above.
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Don
What an intelligent, articulate reply? Johnny Boy, is this really the best you could do? Even after all this time, it's STILL hilarious to watch you squirm. Keep digging!
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John Owens
Who is squirming? Certainly not I. You are a sad, sad, very small little person who most likely vomits in your own mouth and swallows it again. I am sorry for you.
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Don
"Who is squirming?"
You are, John Owens the two-faced cowardly liar.
Where is the evidence you claimed to have FOUR MONTHS AGO? Yeah, we all know where. Now go flush.
Prove you're not a spineless coward, Johnny Boy - POST YOUR EVIDENCE!
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John Owens
Only a cowardly liar like you would get so brave when left alone. Just what is it that you think there is to fear, here? Do you think anyone reading your posts doesn't know you are a weak sissy who is afraid of his own shadow? You BORE me, Don, like you bore everyone else here.
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Don
That's strange - usually these homophobic cockroaches scamper back after spewing baseless insults. This one doesn't even have THAT much integrity.
I wish I could say I was surprised. Thanks Johnny!
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John Owens
Yeah. I think he is a frustrated queen who is incapable of relationships, so this is his life. Sad, really. I pity the bugger.
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Don
"Keep running that mouth. You DO realize you can be traced by someone who sets their mind to it, don’t you?"
Almost 3 months, Johnny Spineless Maggot. Carry out your threat, WORM! What kind of GROWN MAN has to get another GROWN MAN to defend him? Well, now we know! Time to GROW UP, Johnny! You can start by ceasing the cowardly evasion and PRESENT YOUR EVIDENCE.
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Don
Other than sending his boyfriend to insult me, not one peep from the so-called seeker of truth. I wish I could say I was surprised…
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John Owens
I'll look over the fact that you cannot count months correctly, Donna. I'm trying to treat you like any man treats a hysterical woman.
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Don
Good - you look over that fact. I'll look over the fact that you are a cowardly little spewer of threats that runs and hides like a little girl when confronted. All better now, or does Johnny Owens the kiddie diddler need another tissue?
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John Owens
Pretty sad that you would accuse someone of something like that with no reason, but then, that is what you have done all along. A simple rule of thumb-- if someone accuses you of something for no good reason, they are accusing you of doing what they, themselves do. I wonder if the authorities monitor this blog. If so, I'm pretty sure if they served a search warrant on you, it would turn up some very incriminating stuff.
I think I'll just call you Screech, because that seems to be the name that fits you best. I'm sure you have a screechy voice-- all whiny and unpleasant and effeminate. That's what they'll call you in prison.
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John Owens
What threat did I spew, you little liar?
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Don
"Pretty sad that you would accuse someone of something like that with no reason"
Like you accusing me of all sorts of nasty nonsense? Inflatable doll ring any bells, you whiny hypocrite? Grow a pair you pansy.
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Don
"What threat did I spew, you little liar?"
Right here, you two-faced little worm: "You DO realize you can be traced by someone who sets their mind to it, don’t you?"
A shame that you are too much of a cowardly little slime to actually follow through.
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Dean Steeves
I am an agnostic who follows the teaching of Christ, not for salvation and not for Christianity, but because of his humanity. I know judgmental people of both faith and of no faith who are selective in who they treat humanely. I have no time for that.
As to the existence of God, it is not important to me to prove or disprove the existence of God. No one can win that argument with someone on either side. At the end of my human life I will know that answer.
I really don't think God, if he exists, cares as much if you voice your belief in his existence. I think he really cares much more that you act humanely and love your fellow man, all of his other children. I look to Romans 2:14/15: 14Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the Law, do by nature what the Law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the Law, 15since they show that the work of the Law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them.
So for me it does not matters what your faith is or is not as long as you follow the teaching of Christ which are humane and moral precepts that are universal. One can see this if one is willing to open their mind and leave human prejudices and human bigotry behind.
We are all individuals and be measured as tribal groups is unproductive.
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Don
"I am an agnostic"
Neato! Are you an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist?
(Agnosticism isn't some middle ground between the two)
The more you know!
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XaurreauX
Classic example of what happens when people let their emotions get in the way of rational discussion.
"If you ask the average person walking down the street: “who is more likely to be close-minded toward outside ideas?” chances are they’ll choose a highly religious person over someone who doesn’t ascribe to any particular set of beliefs."
I have found that not to be true unless the "average person" you're asking is some kind of atheist. Conversely, I have found atheists to be intolerant, closed minded and generally hostile to people of faith. Especially Christians. They love to admonish a Christian who fails to live up to his Biblical beliefs. It's almost a point of honor for them to point at the minister who steals church money or the one who ditties a female parishioner. AS if just by being a Christian will overcome all the pitfalls and sins of life and human failure to do so proves the person a hypocrite and the faith a fraud.
Nonbelievers also fail to understand the difference between admonishing homosexual acts and admonishing homosexual persons. They can't separate the sin from the sinner therefore there is little or no room for forgiveness.
I would like to point out that one religion that preaches the subjugation or killing of anyone who refuses to convert to it is the only main stream religion that preaches intolerance of people of other or especially no faith.
You have excellent points.
I am a believer. I do not think religious people are more or less bigoted than atheists.
The problem, as I see it, is that religious bigots use their faith to destroy people. In other words, while atheist bigots keep their thoughts to themselves, for the most part, religious bigots are verbally destructive and exclude those they deem 'sinful'.
Excellant point
I think it would be wonderful if the atheist bigots in ULC monastery kept their bigoted thoughts to themselves, Benjamin. That has not been my experience here. The dumber ones will call you a troll just out of habit if you disagree with any of them, when THEY are doing the trolling.
How about you take your own advice and keep your vile hatemongering to yourself. Also, I have ONE MILLION DOLLARS CASH if you can prove Noah's Ark. I won't be holding my breath, since all of your "evidence" comes from a clown who thinks the earth is 6,000 years old. Good luck. (Will John Owens respond with actual evidence, or just more insults? Let's wait and see!)
As if a loser like you had any money.
crickets Not that I expected much, but still...
What proof would you acceot, Don?
"What proof would you acceot, Don?"
Memory loss? The same standards of proof I gave you LAST YEAR...so just NOW you're going to provide evidence? HA
Contemporary, verifiable evidence. Nothing less. Your turn.
But a video made in Turkey, with Turkish officials and videography is not "contemporary, verifiable evidence?"
That's right. A video made by uneducated Creationists is not contemporary, verifiable evidence for anything supernatural. It IS, however, evidence that some people will believe anything, no matter how silly it is.
The aerial photographs made in 1957 were contemporary in 1957. Now they are a part of the historical record. The earthquake that exposed the sides of the thing is historical. The tests performed on the metal fragments at Jet Propulsion Laboratories was real, scientific, and documented. The scientist who performed the tests at first thought it was from a crashed missile. I don't trust Turks, but the Turkish governor and soldiers who went there were real.
You cannot just reject any and all evidence just because you are opposed to any belief in a deity, and then try to pretend you are the intellectually superior one.
"You cannot just reject any and all evidence"
Ugh. Such idiocy. YOU are the only one claiming those things are evidence of a magic boat - please present the findings from the researchers at JPL - SURELY they will have put their names on such an important discovery.
Strange that nothing on their website or press releases mentions finding evidence of the Ark...
Perhaps you could explain?
Yes but add accredited scientifically accepted. See Snopes https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/noah39s-ark-discovery/
For the preposterous claims made regarding the Bibles Ark in Turkey as an example of how easy it is to make claims that people jump to, yet ignore the scientific proofs of its falsity.
There's a BIG difference in the intolerance or "bigotry" of the religious VS those of the atheist. Atheists are angry because their entire lives they've seen people use religion to control them or oppress free society in general and they're sick of it. So they go overboard to bully the bullies. Religious bigots want to control your life, put you in jail for things they disagree with, and generally rob you of your God given freedom. The problem is that jerks of all stripes are louder. "Regular" people (folks who are generally decent and, despite perhaps some personal prejudices, don't try to mess with other people's lives) tend to not speak up as much. We're too busy trying to live our lives and make progress and/or accomplishment to shout at other people about how they're living theirs.
Can we also have American Christians stop playing the victim card? They're the majority of the population, all their holidays are national holidays, despite the annual war on Christmas I've never seen one pass without decorations EVERYWHERE. There are plenty of places you can't buy booze on Sunday. Every needling, blue book church law that sticks in the craw of freedom loving Americans are pretty much still on the books. If you feel under attack, you're either watching too much phony propaganda, or you haven't taken a step back and recognized the difference between a free, secular society that allows you to worship as you choose and a free-ish society that conforms to your specific beliefs. Religious icons don't belong on public property unless they're hanging around your neck. That's not anti-Christian, that's pro freedom for ALL. "Under God" was shoehorned into the pledge in the 50s in response to communism. Taking it out isn't anti-Christian, it's pro America for EVERYONE. And hey, if marriage is only between a man and a women, maybe stop fighting gay marriage and start fighting marriage as a legal institution. It's a covenant between you, your spouse, your congregation and God. It should offend you that it's a governmental legal contract.
Ooohhh, now I see. Atheist intolerance is JUSTIFIABLE. NOW I get it. They've just been VICTIMIZED by those angry Christians for so long, wishing them Merry Christmas and saying Have a Blessed Day and all that, and inviting each other over for dinner but NOT the atheists. Kinda reminds me of the Star-Bellied Sneetches by Dr. Zeuss. They didn't invite you to their weeny-roasts. Poor things. Well, NOW you know you can be as snotty and belligerent and bigoted and intolerant as your little hearts desire, because YOUR intolerance is JUSTIFIED, like leftists. Now we get it. If we'd just had YOU for a leader, we'd have understood our error all along. You almost persuade ME to be an atheist, just so I can be on the RATIONAL, MORAL side of everything.
“I'll tell you what you did with Atheists for about 1500 years. You outlawed them from the universities or any teaching careers, besmirched their reputations, banned or burned their books or their writings of any kind, drove them into exile, humiliated them, seized their properties, arrested them for blasphemy. You dehumanised them with beatings and exquisite torture, gouged out their eyes, slit their tongues, stretched, crushed, or broke their limbs, tore off their breasts if they were women, crushed their scrotums if they were men, imprisoned them, stabbed them, disembowelled them, hanged them, burnt them alive.
And you have nerve enough to complain to me that I laugh at you.”
― Madalyn Murray O'Hair
Show me evidence of any of that crap. I understand about the inquisition, but that was not limited to atheists. People with any dissenting opinion were subject to persecution. I'd just like to know something about this 1500 years of which you speak, as if there is some history you are citing. I'd like to know what history that is, in what language, and how you came by it.
John Owens - I see you're still here leaving hateful, ignorant, bigoted comments - ever find that 6th grade history book you claimed to not know any of the contents thereof...or are you willfully ignorant?
Don, blow that smoke up your own backside, please. I don't time for your stupidity. I have a lot of fake-science articles to refute. I don't know to what stupid book you refer, but YOU are the willfully ignorant one. Oh, but tell me how MY comments are hateful and bigoted, please, and yours AREN'T. You are like any leftist moron. You do something, then accuse someone else of doing it. Nothing in this particular comment to which you are replying is hateful, or ignorant, or bigoted, so just WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Do you just say that because it sounds good to you? Go to your safe place.
"I don’t time for your stupidity" --- That just says it all right there. Thanks for the laughs, illiterate superstitious clown boy.
John Owens - Lie about me in ALL CAPS again, it makes you look so intelligent and mature. LOL!!
You poor man. I'm sorry you are incapacitated, but you could still find something better to do than lie all the time. I think you must be functionally illiterate.
You certainly never back up anything you say with evidence, even though you can copy and paste.
I don't know how you became the way you are, but try not to be bitter about it. It hurts you and anyone who may care about you more than it does anyone here on the blog.
John Owens - Well, at least you stopped with the potty-mouth grade-school insults, lies, and screaming in ALL CAPS. I'm sure Jesus is so proud of you.
Little Donny, there is no option here for italics, or bold, or change of font. That is the only reason to used ALL CAPS. I don't know why some idiot decided that was shouting. You still don't back up anything. You lied again, calling me potty-mouth. That's all you do is lie. Your whole concept of everything must be a lie.
"all you do is lie" --- Show where I lied, apologize for the slander, or stand exposed as a sleazy little maggot. Also, tell us who George Stain is, genius boy.
Don
May 31, 2018 at 5:14 pm
"John Owens – I see you’re still here leaving hateful, ignorant, bigoted comments – ever find that 6th grade history book you claimed to not know any of the contents thereof…or are you willfully ignorant?" You didn't show ANY of the hateful, ignorant, bigoted comments, after I asked you to, so you must be lying that I left them.
Don
June 1, 2018 at 11:48 am
"{“I don’t time for your stupidity” — That just says it all right there. Thanks for the laughs, illiterate superstitious clown boy.}" You lied, saying I am illiterate and also that I am superstitious. Where the Hell would you pick that up? I'm not the least superstitious. I got married on Friday the 13th.
Don
June 1, 2018 at 11:50 am
"John Owens – Lie about me in ALL CAPS again, it makes you look so intelligent and mature. LOL!!" I didn't LIE about you at ALL. I asked you a question in all caps (which you never answered, because you make things up.). Anyway, that's another of your lies.
Don
June 1, 2018 at 1:13 pm
"(“all you do is lie” — Show where I lied, apologize for the slander, or stand exposed as a sleazy little maggot. Also, tell us who George Stain is, genius boy.)" On this one I just want to show you that your syntax can suggest you that YOU apologize for the slander OR that YOU stand exposed as a sleazy little maggot. Your writing could use a little refinement.
Anyway, I quickly demonstrated what a liar you are.
"I’m not the least superstitious."
WHAT?! You just claimed in an earlier post to be a Christian who believes the Bible to be true!
So which is it?
(just caught you in another lie, by the way)
First: Atheist that were leaders or dictators of their country were not killing because they were atheist when they were actually political killings and not related to religion or atheism. Second: Anyone that points to religion or atheism as the root of all evil is also false. Third: Most of the violence that is committed in the name of religion has nothing to do with religion what so ever. The violence is propagated by notion that no one else can believe in anything except what the other people or groups believes.
We are all supposed to be individuals and are different from one another but the violence revolves the notion that it is a crime to believe something else.
When we all get our minds around that people can believe in different thing and still live with one another and accept each other as equals we will never be rid of the violence in the minds of those that believe that their philosophy is the only good one and the rest should either die or bow down to their philosophy so that everyone is a carbon copy of everyone else. We are not cattle that need to be herded and controlled. Live free and die happy...
...and, thank you, Los Guy. Valid comments. Wars are not REALLY fought over ideology. Ideology is just used to justify them.
"people can believe in different thing and still live with one another and accept each other as equals"
John Owens - read what Los Guy wrote (before you thanked him) and realize that this is the OPPOSITE of most of your posts here.
Toodles!
Don, if you weren't functionally illiterate, you'd see he said people don't kill for religious or atheistic reasons. You really are a sad case, and super-shallow. Go away.
BTW-- if you will get a DICTIONARY, or ENCYCLOPEDIA, both of which are apparently unfamiliar to you, and struggle through the definitions and explanations about SUPERSTITIOUS and RELIGIOUS, you will see that, unavoidably, again, you are wrong and a liar. The only way to avoid your being wrong and a liar is for you to not say anything. Let's see if you have that much strength. You began lying by quoting Madalyn O'Hair, and everything you have written since then has been shrill, hysterical and untrue.
"shrill, hysterical and untrue"
Owens just described the majority of his posts. Too bad this site doesn't have a Clown Blocker™.
Don the Moron.
John Owens
June 1, 2018 at 1:26 pm
Don
May 31, 2018 at 5:14 pm
“John Owens – I see you’re still here leaving hateful, ignorant, bigoted comments – ever find that 6th grade history book you claimed to not know any of the contents thereof…or are you willfully ignorant?” You didn’t show ANY of the hateful, ignorant, bigoted comments, after I asked you to, so you must be lying that I left them.
Don
June 1, 2018 at 11:48 am
“{“I don’t time for your stupidity” — That just says it all right there. Thanks for the laughs, illiterate superstitious clown boy.}” You lied, saying I am illiterate and also that I am superstitious. Where the Hell would you pick that up? I’m not the least superstitious. I got married on Friday the 13th.
Don
June 1, 2018 at 11:50 am
“John Owens – Lie about me in ALL CAPS again, it makes you look so intelligent and mature. LOL!!” I didn’t LIE about you at ALL. I asked you a question in all caps (which you never answered, because you make things up.). Anyway, that’s another of your lies.
Don
June 1, 2018 at 1:13 pm
“(“all you do is lie” — Show where I lied, apologize for the slander, or stand exposed as a sleazy little maggot. Also, tell us who George Stain is, genius boy.)” On this one I just want to show you that your syntax can suggest you that YOU apologize for the slander OR that YOU stand exposed as a sleazy little maggot. Your writing could use a little refinement.
Anyway, I quickly demonstrated what a liar you are.
What an articulate, intelligent reply! I especially liked that you included verifiable evidence for the various claims you've made. Very mature and professional. (are we learning yet, John Owens the Cowardly Clown?)
Ni xi wan wen xi ba, shi?
Don't know from what planet you came, but on Earth, everyone knows the people I named killed millions of their own and others. You are pathetic.
Keep those intelligent, articulate, and factually accurate comments coming! They really showcase your true character. Personally, if MY true character was a sleazy maggot, I wouldn't want to make it public...but you go on and you do you. Toodles!
"on Earth, everyone knows the people I named killed millions of their own and others"
Everyone knows, eh? So since EVERYONE knows the "facts" you posted, mind linking a credible site showing how many people George Stalin killed? We've been waiting for over a year now, why the delay? Why are you afraid to post truth?
Don't you mean, George STAIN? That IS what you said here:
Don
June 1, 2018 at 1:13 pm
“... tell us who George Stain is, genius boy." You idiot. You can't even spell correctly when you are trying to make fun of someone for typing the wrong first name of a famous villain because you have nothing clever to add.
So, after denigrating me for making fun of your typo (that you continued to misspell every time you typed it), you STOOP TO THE SAME LEVEL. That right there speaks volumes. Thanks for exposing your true self (again).
DON, I posted that as George twice. ALL the rest, was YOU, copying, and doing a poor job of it. Now please STFU.
Aww! Weasel Boy exposed his own stupidity and wants me to shut up. Make me, you racist, hateful, spineless Christian sleazeball.
Now you really prove you are an idiot, by trying to play the race card. That is ALWAYS where weak-assed left-wing morons go when they don't have anything intelligent to say, and you have yet to say anything intelligent. You have ZERO evidence that I am a racist OR a bigot, and yet you throw it out there in your little bitter childish name-calling hissy fit. You need a midol.
Oh, and you call it STOOPING to YOUR level, when I mention your misspelling after you have gone ON and ON about my stupid mistake (which was made while making an actually quite valid point which you totally ignored). I don't have any idea what kind of quantum leap in logic you are making about rapists and rape victims, Don, but you really don't make much sense anytime.
Mizz Donna doesn't even know the difference between religious and superstitious. Poor little trollop!
Oh, Donna called me racist, too. Another lie.
There definitely are atheist bullies and I happen to know both of them.
"You have ZERO evidence that I am a racist"
"... the DNC decided they would field the Kenyan ..."
John Owens, the spineless spewer of falsehoods and lies, exposed again! This is fun!
Again, ZERO evidence. If you think calling a person a Kenyan is racist, you must BE a racist. Kenyans are Kenyans. Mexicans are Mexicans. Americans are Americans. Kenyan is not a RACE. Kenyan is a nationality. Only an idiot would call that racist. Sorry, but I gotcha again. You are a moron.
You didn't call a Kenyan a Kenyan, you called an American President a Kenyan BECAUSE OF HIS SKIN COLOR. The one thing more pathetic than cowardly racists? Cowardly racists who then try to hide their true colors - yours have been exposed.
Your own bigotry and racism are showing, Don. I called him a Kenyan because that is what Hillary called him, and because it drives you lefties NUTS. Also, he is at least HALF-KENYAN!! You are now so unashamedly bigoted as to try to tell ME what MY motivation is. What a bigoted, racist thing to do. Because YOU are racist, you think I am! Again. Zero evidence. Gotcha again, worm-brain.
"You need a midol."
Ah, a racist AND a sexist. Typical fundamentalist. Do you molest kids too?
No, but I'm sure you would, if you weren't afraid. Now, as to your EXTREMELY BIGOTED generalization-- you have proven neither, and apparently you just invent for yourself what it means to be a fundamentalist. It is not sexist to tell a man he needs a midol. It might be to tell a woman, unless it happened to be true, but never to tell a man.
"It is not sexist to tell a man he needs a midol"
Figures the religious bigot is also ignorant of basic biology. Men don't have uteruses, nor do they need relief from period pain. You're welcome.
You are incredibly dense, Don, and I'd like to see just how long I can push your buttons and pull your strings, but I am about to leave it with you for the weekend.
Looks like the Brave Christian Warrior. after spewing cowardly put-downs, has fled yet again.
yawn
I'm sure his wife is overjoyed with having a husband who tells her to take a Midol™ every time they argue.
Don the Noodleweeny-man, it is not fleeing to have better things to do than to entertain your neediness. Stop acting like a pampered little chicken.
"it is not fleeing to have better things to do"
Right...but to come back, spew baseless insults, and STILL not have ONE SHRED of the evidence for your whacko claims IS.
You are a liar and a spineless coward. Insults won't change this, but EVIDENCE FOR YOUR CLAIMS just might. A shame you don't seem to have any.
"Bock, bock, bock. Bwock, bwock, bwock." Too bad the only eggs you lay are stupid commentary.
Thanks for the predictable reply, and proving my original point. Better luck next time, hatemongering coward.
"the difference between religious and superstitious" Noah's Ark is superstitious nonsense. Oh, that's right, you believe it actually happened. Not superstitious then, outright delusional.
So, you are saying, you are so ignorant that you do not believe that long ago, a man and his sons COULD have built a giant, extremely sea-worthy ship that could ride out a global catastrophic flood with thousands of animals aboard. You say that is absolutely not possible. Do you have documentation saying that it is not possible? That there is no way the ship existed? Ask yourself, are you deluded? How could it NOT have been possible? Prove it didn't happen.
The last refuge of the delusional - they start screaming "prove it didn't happen!".
Tell you what, Johnny Boy, prove polka-dotted pixies didn't create the universe with magic 2 weeks ago, complete with false memories and evidence of an old universe.
Prove - with evidence - that it did not happen. Surely you can do it, right? (maybe little Johnny will learn the folly in trying to prove a negative, maybe not)
The Brave Christian Warrior ran away (again) without providing any evidence for his magic boat. I wonder if he realizes the ONLY 'support' he's offered so far comes from a YEC who claims the earth is 6,000 years old and that the Grand Canyon was formed in 5 minutes? (when your sources are delusional, best to find other sources, otherwise it makes YOU look ignorant and delusional - ARE WE LEARNING YET, JOHNNY?)
someoneelsehasmyusername it is sad that so many think that bigotry and discrimination is bad in others but it is OK in them...
Can't argue with that.
I agree.
The things you are saying are all from todays (and the past 30 years) teachers and professors idiot 'Q' cards they are required to babble to students. First, like it or not, the primary purpose people came here was to be able to practice religion without govt interference. No other reason. Heard of the Puritans ? The founders were religious christians as was the vast majority of the population. It was the Constitutions has at its' beginning that "God created all men equally". Whether you agree with it or not, that is America and the principles on which it was founded. One of the most important things in life, is tradition. It stabilizes that which is good for generations. The left is trying its' best to destroy tradition through propagandizing youth, particularly students of every age. This should scare the hell out of you. Why ? Because that has always been the prelude to totalitarianism. Understand-The current re-education process of indoctrination of youth is to get their minds off God, Tradition, Morality and transform them into persons who are ill equipped logically and pre-occupied with meaningless issues that they (media/DNC) can warp into negatives about conservatism while ignoring the real stories happening in the world. Right now, the USA is facing some of its' most severe dangers since the 'cold war'. This is because political liberals were busy trying to be loved by potential voters by promising to give away other peoples money (which means theft of another persons work and effort) and liberal/democrat politicians propagandizing that 'all is well' in the world because they made a 'deal' with whomever (which never work out) to give a false sense of security to the ill-informed so they can gut defense resources and other priority dept's to free up money to re-distribute to potential voters (marxism). Do you understand what conservative means ? It means to be informed, make decisions that are financially prudent for yourself, family, business and has minimal negative impact on others. And it means to create an environment that protects peoples rights, property, earnings, and enforcing the laws as they are written, not as they prefer. It means not to create wasteful govt. agencies that serve no useful purpose for the population as a whole, simply to expand govt (and therefore taxes). There are over 600 bureaus and agencies in the US govt. Many are outdated and serve no purpose, but they are still there, paying people to do nothing (this is true), simply because it cuts against the minds of liberals to do anything that reduces govt. Literally, there are a minimum of 200 agencies/bureaus that could be abolished saving hundreds of billions a year, and not a damn person in the US would even know it unless they asked why their taxes are less the year following the abolition. As a former Fed auditor, and member of the Fed Comptrollers Assn, it made make sick being able to see 'behind the curtain' and learn this. American tradition INCLUDES religion and its' outward manifestations. And in losing people from religious belief, this has played a big part in them allowing govt. to grow out of hand, which is what socialist communists/democrats want. This is why they do not want religious icons/reminders in public spaces. It reminds people they have an obligation not just to themselves, but to all other Americans. Nativity scenes at the state house or library are part of the tradition of America. Losing TRADITION is losing your IDENTITY which is the lefts whole plan. DO NOT FALL FOR THE SCAM AS SO MANY OTHERS HAVE,. PS: To digress, the first form of governance in the new world, after the Mayflower landed, etc, was marxist. They did not know it at the time or its' effects, but in practice it was. And it almost killed them all.The new governor had decided that all the colonists would work together in the fields and with the livestock, and at the end of the season distribute equal shares to each family. It took one season for most to realize "why work so hard, I will still get my share". Sound familiar ? The next seasons were disastrous with colonists almost starving to death, until it was changed to 'you get to keep what you produce, and if you have extra, you can sell it to your neighbors'. The colony thrived and that is what brought about that year of abundance when the first Thanksgiving holiday was held, with native Americans invited to share their good fortune. Thanksgiving is just a big a Tradition as nativity scenes and other public displays of our past. (you won't hear about that in any of todays universities as it makes marxism look bad (because it is bad).
Sadly, too many Christians believe that quoting scripture and going to church regularly is what is necessary to be true to their religion. I have seen far too many examples where this is absolutely false. I have seen many great Christians who rarely go to church and never quote scripture who LIVE their religion in the best possible ways. No one ever criticizes those who do so. The criticisms seem to be directed at the Pseudo-Christians. I support those criticisms. By the way, did you notice that the Southern Baptist Church leadership, at their annual meeting in Phoenix, Arizona, decided to NOT condemn the White Supremacist movement? How's that for pseudo-Christianity?
There is really no such thing as an Atheist. The term comes from A-Theist, or one who does not have a theory. Logically, if you state that you don't have a theory, you are stating a theory. More accurately would be the term A-Deist, or one who does not believe in a deity. That I will accept as a logical conclusion. In either case intolerance is not a proper issue, who or what gives anyone the ability to tell me what to think and do? I am my own person and will remain so until your misguided perceptions have me burned at the stake or other colorful form of execution for my differing and tolerant views.
You need to read some books because you have no idea what an atheist is or their POV...
Just stating definitions.
It is not the definition of an Atheist...
Definition of atheism
Just a point of reference, Guy: You are probably familiar with the terms " Deus, Diós" and the word "deity". Those are latinized and anglicized versions of the Greek word "Theou" (pronounced more or less "thay-oo"). The "a" prefix, signifying without, or the absence of theou, would be the root of the noun "atheist". Theism can be defined as a belief in a deity. Atheism would then be a lack of belief in God. Polytheism would be belief in multiple deities. Monotheism=belief in one deity, etc.
When was the last time an atheist blew himself up killing believers, so he could go to heaven? When was the last time a theist did it? How many times today?
Good question, Hugo.
How convenient that you've narrowed the TYPE of murder down to a specific action and then further narrowed it down to zero by inserting something self-contradictory about an atheist trying to go to heaven. Otherwise, we might have to examine the HISTORICAL FACT that nations whose state "religion" was atheism (Communists) killed IN A SINGLE CENTURY more than ALL theist nations COMBINED ever killed in ALL OF RECORDED HISTORY.
Can, it is bigoted and hateful for you to cloud the discussion with true historical facts. Someone is going to need hugging therapy if they read your comment.
The reality is actions do speak louder than words. The Catholic church (the only Christians until the 15-1600's) basic teachings are of charity, humility, tolerance, putting others before yourself, non-materialism, etc. The Church actually invented universities, public schools, public hospitals, etc, and all with the money and sweat of the locals. The Monks kept history alive by hand copying all books they could find during and after the Dark Ages to retain knowledge of the past (no pay). No atheistic organization has ever done anything of such charitable value. They feed the poor worldwide and educate the illiterate worldwide, all on individual cash donations. Catholics (christians) are taught not to judge others or hate, even those who may hate you, but to pray for them. This teaching gets into your soul, and the facts, not surveys are the best evidence of who is more tolerant. True believers know it is only Gods place to judge. And all people are Gods creations and worthy of respect, regardless of any perceived faults. On the other hand, people without knowledge of Christ are materialists, concerned with getting the most possessions and popularity as possible and have a feeling that it is OK to do what ever takes, if no one sees you do it. Religious people know nothing is done in secret.
The political left, who feels much more highly enlightened than their Christian throw back brothers, are clearly intolerant of anything that their atheist, socialist Marxist dogma is contradicted by. Fact-All left wing American media such as MSNBC, CNN, NBC, CBS, etc, are constantly belittling the intellects and sanity of conservatives as well as anyone who hosts a conservative forum. It is actual hate speech, which they profess to abhor, yet, they blindly do it and can not even see the hypocrisy since they have been so completely indoctrinated into the Marxist memes' and sound bites. It is narcissism at its' worst, and very dangerous to democracy. These morons call conservatives and republicans 'Nazis' without even realizing the Nazis were Democratic Socialists, the antithesis of conservatism. Like the Nazis', they kept 'inferior' humans in bondage AS free labor, fight first amendment (free speech) laws (a la Lenin, Stalin, Chavez, Castro, Mao, Hitler, etc) Universities were the 1st to began with socialist indoctrination and deleting studies in logic (under KGB agents guised as administrators & 'professors' and it is now into high schools and elementary schools). The 'left can not win on merit, and must use propaganda and emotion to get voters, not logic. They must demonize conservatives (a la Hitler) using hate speech. Pure and total hypocrites, and many, if not most of the guilty are clueless they are part of this.
For many hundreds of years, Christianity in Europe and beyond preached "the subjugation or killing of anyone who refuses to convert to it" and in fact killed people of the wrong faith (even if that "wrong faith" was a different flavor of Christianity) and burned alive people without faith, or who denied certain tenets of faith.
Mr. Dorney: This is a generalization that is not true of all Christians. The most egregious examples of this were political leaders seeking to wrap themselves in the mantle of Christ as they went about consolidating power. The same is true of Islamic militancy in the same era.
So you'll find that of the three Catholic Inquisitions, the bookends in France and Spain were prosecuted by church leaders hand-picked by kings for their political loyalty. The middle Inquisition was run by the Catholic Church to combat politicization of faith. Many people charge by public authorities of heresy were relieved of their sentence through intervention of the Inquisitors who drew upon the authority of Rome to counter political corruption of Christian theology.