In an unprecedented move, the Alabama state Senate has approved a bill that would allow a Birmingham megachurch to create its own police force. These "church cops" would have the same authority and power as regular police officers, and would be permitted to carry guns. The big difference: they would answer to church officials instead of the government.
The leaders of Briarwood Presbyterian Church say the security of their congregation is a top priority, and they've been lobbying to create a police force for a while now. Church officials argue that Briarwood "needs its own police officers to keep its school as well as its more than 4,000-person congregation safe."
After the bill passed with a 24-4 vote, the Alabama Senate now sends the bill up to the state House of Representatives, where another vote will take place. If approved, the church police force would become the first of its kind in the country.
Separating Church and State
Some Alabamians were astonished to hear about Briarwood's plans to blend the duties of Church and State. Since police departments are a government institution, the decision to create a church police force lands on shaky legal ground. Indeed, the Constitution indicates that church and state must remain entirely separate of one another.
The ACLU called the Alabama bill "plainly unconstitutional," and insists that such legislation "unnecessarily carves out special programs for religious organizations that inextricably intertwine state authority and power with church operations."
Mixing Force With Faith
According to churchgoers, it's quite common for the local Sheriff's Department to respond to emergency house-calls at Briarwood Presbyterian. Off-duty officers from the Sheriff's office and various other law enforcement agencies frequently provide security at church events.
However, there is a clear distinction between hiring off-duty officers for special events and creating an independent church police unit. This takes the responsibility of policework away from the government and put it squarely in the hands of the church. Understandably, not everyone is comfortable with that idea.
While the bill would require church cops to meet the same standards as their government counterparts, it is admittedly hard to shake the image of a cross-wearing, pistol-wielding church official.
Two Sides of a Coin
Briarwood officials say that given the times we live in, a private church police force is absolutely necessary. Citing the tragic Sandy Hook shooting several years ago, as well as recent religiously-motivated terror attacks, they argue the world is simply a more dangerous place than it was before. Nobody wants to station police in a church building, but desperate times call for desperate measures, the old saying goes.
Not everyone is buying their argument. Opponents insist this is just another attempt to expand church influence and bolster the power of specific faith groups. They point out that a church police officer could try to enforce religious tenets as well as the law. Finally, they accuse church officials of fearmongering in order to get their way.
Is the world really a more dangerous place, or is that an exaggeration?
There is no question that churches have become targets for violent attacks, but so have many other public venues. As long as corrupt ideologies continue to hold sway over people, the risk will always be present. However, there could be negative consequences to mixing church affairs and law enforcement. Does the added security church cops could provide outweigh such concerns?
Do you think the church should be able to form its own police force?
This is chilling. I'm worried about the width of their "jurisdiction", but even using that word my gut reaction is "no" to this idea. Does Alabama intend to secede?
I SURE DO HOPE SOooo !!!
More regretful is the fact there is not a black person to see in this "police" line-up!!! Back to the good old KKK days???
This comment is an excellent reason why you should not rush to judgement as their is a black officer in the photograph. You just have to take the time to open your mind and look.
It's not the "good old days"...it's the SAME days. For all the PR, the Deep South has not changed.
I see two black men in the back row, and at least one in the front row. This has nothing to do with racism.
JOHN OWENS, GIT YERSELF a PAR of BI FOCALS, PLEEESE.
Obviously I can see better than several people on this page, John. You can't just look at the palms of the hands-- Everyone's palms are white, but if you actually socialized with people who are not white, you would know that. There are two black men visible in the back row, in the foreground of the photo, and another man in the row in the front row, in the background of the photo, who I think is black. Either way, the only reason any of you are trying to twist this into a white supremacy thing, is because you are A) gullible and B) uninformed and C) because it is in Alabama. You believe White Supremacy is on the upswing because you are easily manipulated by the left-wing Press and you are uniformed because you think that southerners are more racist than northerners. That should scare you that you are so uninformed. When Briarwood was in Cahaba Heights, I attended private school there (1968-1970) because I got into too much trouble in public school before integration. Public schools integrated either in 1969 or early 1970. The school took on a life of its own and the church moved to its present location but the school remained where it was. When my family moved to the edge of cotton country, to get us away from the city, crime, and drugs, we enrolled in a freshly-integrated school. My first friend there was a black boy my age named Willie Joe Washington. I have been integrated since 1970This is not a race issue. It is a security issue. If you have a multi-million dollar estate in an area that has become a high-crime area over the last two decades, SECURITY FOR THE PROPERTY AND THE MEMBERS OF THE ESTATE BECOMES AN ISSUE, which you have EVERY right AND OBLIGATION to address.
OF COURSE JOHN OWENS ONE MUST BE WEALTHY ENOUGH TO GET POLICE PROTECTION, PRIVATE or OTHERWISE UNLESS U LIVE in MARSHMELLOW CRACKER COUNTRY then USUALLY ONE of YOUR RELATIVES is SHERIFF.
John, and you know this about Marshmallow Cracker Country how?
BEEN there DONE that JOHN, THATS HOW I KNOW, FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE.
So, let me get this straight, John, YOU'RE from Marshmallow Cracker country and have a relative who is a sheriff?
Just zoom in on the man just to the left of center and look at him. He MIGHT be a very dark middle-easterner, but he is not white.
Of course, we should all realize that the photo at the top of the article is NOT Briarwood Presbyterian Church's building. Those men, that building, are some other place which Joseph did not name. But the men depicted are not ALL white. IJS.
Ladies and Gentlemen, the Church has had a form of safety and security from the beginning. In the Apostle Paul's first years of ministry, he faced a threat on his life and fellow-believers helped him leave the city by lowering him in a basket down the city wall. The use of house-churches helped move the congregation meetings from one location to another for the safety of the local assembly. Church leaders were moved around from community to community to help them avoid the public hunt for them, such as Polycarp, who was hidden for days, and after still being discovered, he surrendered to the arrest. Another method, according to some legend, was that some congregations developed a system of codes to identify who they were to those who knew the code. Safety and security of the Church and her members has been an important issue since the beginning. Now, with this present day, if an organization is allowed to have a law enforcement unit, then the unit must have guidelines for its function, responsibilities, and particularly to whom the arrested are turned over.
Sorry, guys. This is what happens when the line separating church and state gets blurred. The function of the state is to provide safety and funding for a safety force, The function of the church, on the other hand, is building the faith and following the words of Jesus. Historically, there was a "police force" in the Church. It was called the Inquisition. It was misguidedly directed to "correcting" the belief of those who were Jews, Muslims and anyone else who was not of the same mind as the Official Catholic Church Doctrine It was inherently evil and suppressed progress in the world for decades after, even to this day of ours. A police force for the church of any kind is and will always be wrong. The legislature of the State of Alabama has got to rethink this one and come to a better understanding of the Federal Law on separation of church and state as it is in our Federal Constitution and realize that this move is not only illegal but grossly immoral. They must also understand, that contrary to their beliefs; that the US Federal Constitution (if you pardon the expression) Trumps any state constitution even the that one of the Great State of Alabama . It must not be done lest we return to the "good old days" of the Inquisition with a gang of armed idiots enforcing "The Right Way to Think."
If the STATE does NOT provide safety and security, then it is up to the community to do it on its own. Almost all churches have armed men and women in them, and that is how it should be. This particular church wants men in uniform to direct traffic and appear as a deterrent to terrorist and other criminal activity. I promise you these are not armed idiots, and the City of Birmingham and Jefferson County will not be on the hook for providing this security. It will be the safest church in Jefferson County and the Presbyterians are not Inquisitors. If anything, they are too liberal and left-leaning.
If the Constitution trumps any State Constitution, then it says, sanctuary cities are illegal. If the State Congress makes this legal, it will be legal.
What's wrong with this comment?
WHATS WRONG with the COMMENT is the COMMENT is WRONG !!! ALL this NONSENSE, MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING, OPINIONS are LIKE ARSEHOLES EVERYBODY has ONE, RIGHT ARSEHOLES, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARD CRIMINAL TRAITOR WANNABE tRUMP, the IDIOT FAKE NEWS KING of ORANGUtRUMP VILLAGE, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
I see way too much profanity and swearing in these comments for any of you to call yourselves Christians.
The solution is simple. Have the men and women who will be this "Security Force" don shirts that read "Security" or "Armed Security" while on the church grounds. As a security officer, they will have the authority to detain those who pose a threat to the church, and hold them until law enforcement can come to actually arrest them. The Security personnel can file the formal criminal complaint with the BPD/JCSO officers just like a normal citizen would, but on the behalf of the church. This would prevent the need for any laws being passed to support the need a private police force for the church. The positions for Security Guards could be voluntary, and would not have to be limited to just during church activities and services, and could be on a 24/7 basis.
Let us stop with the name calling and profanity towards each other, as it is not at all God-like. My solution took a mere few seconds to develop and solves the entire issue as a whole, and I did it without calling anyone an expletive word or derogatory adjective.
God bless you all.
This is frightening. If they succeed, the next thing you know the Church of Scientology will want to establish their own police force too, and there will be a precedent for it thanks to this. A private police force is a essentially a private army.
You are speaking as if you are neurotic. Every corporation, every big office building, every every bank, has their own security. I don't hear you crying about that, but some megachurch does it, and the sky is falling. Are you crying about the Muslim neighborhood watch, too?
"This is frightening." Gee. I hope this doesn't give you nightmares. "...private army..." Oh, Gwenevere, our realm is dying!
I can see this going side ways, in more than one way, so no ,that just makes them armed security officers,just like any other armed security officer that's all this world nweds is another (Law Enforcement agency)F.B.I,C.I.A,homeland security, U.S. Marshalls, all answer to the government, the end, enough said...
1984,1984,1984.....................THINK ABOUT IT ???
Bill, Sadly so can I. This is going to get interesting. God Bless you and yours.
Oh no, I am not comfortable with this at all. There are a lot of reasons I am not in favor of church cops, but suffice it to say I perceive this to be unconstitutional at best.
I am in agreement that this would be unconstitutional. If the church wants to have police officers, they should contract with the local police department or sheriff's department to provide law enforcement services similar to high schools that have school resource officers.
Any private entity can hire its own security force. The Power Company has them, the Bank, individuals. I don't see how you can LEAP to the conclusion this is unconstitutional.
then TRY READING the CONSTITUTION JOHN OWENS and UNDERSTANDING SAME, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARD CRIMINAL RACIST TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A, there are NO PEOPLE of ANY COLOR in that MARSHMELLOWS in UNIFORM LINE UP, LOOKED like the TIP of an ICEBERG or the POLAR BEAR PICNIC..
JACKASS, I KNOW THE CONSTITUTION. Y'all yahoos who keep saying this is unconstitutional are the ones who DON'T know it.
WELL BOOGER OWINS ya STARTED yer VERBAL DIARRHEA AGAIN, YOUR MOUTH is a SEWER of MISINFORMATION, DON'T FORGET to WIPE yer LIPS after U use the TOILET, BACK to the VILLAGE IDIOTS, YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING JUST LIKE ALL the tRUMPIE VILLAGE IDIOTS, VERBAL NOTHING DIARRHEA, YER LUCKY U can READ BUTT IGNORANT of COMPREHENSION, BYE, BYE BOOGER, MAKE SURE YOU STICK WITH the FAKE NEWS AFTER ALL it got ALL YOU VILLAGE IDIOTS ORANGUtRUMP.
Churches are not safe places.
No the church can and should get a armed security service but evean as a minister if I was walking near the church and one of these "police" officers stoped me on the sidewalk I would not see his authority over me on a public walk way so just get a security service the church must have money to burn so they should help the needy and by doing that they will help lower the crime and violence that the "police" force would face it is a bad idea for private police to get started what I if a Muslim wanted to start a police force would this this church want that a church police force would try to enforce the laws of the church not the constitution this is a bad bad idea
THAR YA GO ROGER, HIT the NAIL RIGHT on the HAID, I would like MY OWN POLICE FORCE, WHY NOT ??? BECAUSE there ARE ALREADY TOO MANY IGNORANT PEOPLE with GUNS..... DUMP the tRUMP, this COUNTRY is GREAT and COULD BE EVEN GREATER WITHOUT tRUMPs AGENDA, IF tRUMP WANTS A LAUGH HE SHOULD MIMIC HIMSELF and HIS ORANGUtRUMP FAMILY, MONEY AIN'T EVERYTHING and the ORANGUtRUMPS PROOVE THAT REAL FACT, WHAT YOU GONNA DO WHEN THEY COME FOR YOU ???
It seems like one more step toward civil war in this country. Segments of the population create police forces or militias to protect them from other segments of the population. Sounds like the basis for a dystopian science fiction movie. It's the same thing that happened to all empires that became to large or complex to be ruled effectively from a central point, or like those empires that had a central governments that were disinterested or incompetent. I have been noticing the pattern for awhile. It's an indication that the country is not being run effectively.
BELIEVE UR EYEs, EARs AND MOUTH SISTER WEEKS, TRUMP will make it HAPPEN, CIVIL WAR !!!
Brother Maher, I pray you see the error of your ways! Civil war is not where injustice is addressed, it is where injustice is perpretrated and the general population is destroyed in order to make the leadership rich!!!
BROTHER RENE L. AGAIN, BELIEVE UR EYES,EARS and MOUTH, tRUMP WILL MAKE it HAPPEN if WE LET HIM, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARD CRIMINAL TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
Trump isn't going to make it happen, and he isn't the one stirring hate. His detractors are the ones doing that. White people aren't stirring hate. Christians aren't stirring hate. Conservative minority members aren't stirring hate. Who does that leave? Who could it be? DEMOCRATS?!?!
What laws would they be able to enforce under the directions of church elders that fall outside the parameters of criminal laws that police officers would enforce? This is a slippery slope. As a former police officer who worked also in the private security industry, I know that entities often hire private security to enforce rules and standards that the police would refuse to enforce because of civil liabilities. Could this lead to a type of "Christian Sharia Law"? Could it be like the religious police in Saudi Arabia who enforce dress codes and other religious standards? Could they be asked to remove a congregant who is behind in their tithes or who disagrees with the pastor? Who will set the limits of their power?
That is exactly what they want. "Poor, poor pitiful us, we are so picked on, so mistreated, our people are persecuted on every turn!" Yeah, with a church on almost every corner, always wanting their ways and beliefs upheld, but are not willing the same for other peoples' beliefs. Now, they will be able to legally enforce what ever they deem their god given right, over everyone else.
I'd be very concerned that the "Police" would come to my door and "arrest me" for some alleged violation of some church doctrine.
Whatever, eventually this whole farce will end up in the Supreme Court and be declared unconstitutional, provided Trump's influence isn't too overpowering.
This has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH CHURCH DOCTRINE!! It is about security on the church grounds. And Trump is not trampling the Constitution anywhere near as much as the Kenyan did, but you were all just fine with that.
JOHN OWENS YOUR A RACIST, PERIOD............................................
My brown grandson, brown step-daughter, brown great-nephew, their black and brown relatives, and all my Hispanic friends who range from very white to very black, and my Chinese friends, my MC Brothers who are every color under the rainbow, NOT TO MENTION ANYONE WHO KNOWS ME at all WOULD TELL YOU THAT YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. But, since you think you know something, keep believing. It will be very difficult for you to ever learn anything, since your head is already full of excrement, there is no room for knowledge.
DON'T MEAN SHYTE, if YOU PREACH, SUPPORT, WORK FOR or WITH a RACIST LIKE ORANGUtRUMP, YOU ARE A RACIST, HOW MANY PERSONS of COLOR RACIST against COLOR, TOO MANY, ALL COWARDS !!!
It is your opinion that doesn't meant "SHYTE". All you know about me is that I know more than you and write better than you and think more than you, so you can't stand that. I can always put you back on iggy if you prefer. Just calling someone racist doesn't make them racist. The fact that I have actual loved ones who are not white should inform you more than the poop in your skull, but some poop is more stubborn than other poop, I guess. You can't even see the black man just to the left of center in the photo. Probably because everything looks brown to you because of the poop behind your eyeballs.
Neither you, nor Al Sharpton, nor any other human gets to change the meaning of the word, racist. The word has a meaning, and it applies to anyone who fits that meaning, regardless of their race, and IT DOES NOT APPLY to someone just because someone ELSE says it does. You make the word cheap and useless by using it too much and applying it to anyone who does not share your own narrow, poorly-conceived views.
WAKE UP JOHN OWENS, HISTORY CAN and WILL REPEAT ITSELF if LET to HAPPEN, THE INQUISITION, CHURCH POLICING, GREAT ERA, NO ? JOHN OWENS, TOO MANY POLICE, TOO MANY LAWS, TOO MANY MILITARY ARMS, GUNS are GOOD, the PEOPLE USING them WELL YOU DECIDE and WHICH STATUES of WHAT HOLY ENTITY WOULD these CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS be GUARDING ??? DUMP the tRUMP the REAL COURT JESTER
JOHN OWENS U R a ME, ME, JUST LIKE tRUMP. A BRAINFART in the WIND, BLIND to ANYTHING other than YOUR IDEAS, LIFE JUST DON'T go DOWN YOUR STREET. DUMP the tRUMP
Just keep floating down the sewer, Maher, and try not to stink too much.
HEY JOHN BOOGER OWINS, the ONLY SMELL U get is the FACT THAT UR MOUTH is TOO CLOSE to UR NOSE or yer ARSE because of YOUR HEAD BEING UP SAME, DUMP the ORANGUtRUMP DOTAR and HIS VILLAGE CLOWN IDIOTS !!!
Did y'all see that floater go by? That was Maher. He's a real stinker. He'll float by again, directly.
The Black Lives Matters, The Muslims and The Black Panthers all have private police forces. Why not this Church?? Seems OK to me.
HOW MANY POLICE FORCES DOES the WHITE MAN have ??? and that SIR is the PROBLEM, TOO,TOO MANY FEAR MONGERs in this COUNTRY FED LIES by UR GOVERNMENT BECAUSE this GOVERNMENT is SURELY NOT MINE !!!
Thanks John, I feel the same.
Brother Maher your "keyword" is WHITE!!! This has nothing to do with being Godly, everything with being a white supremacist. It is simply another way to project hatred in a world that does not need it, there is enough hate!!! I agree the rich and the politicians are NOT looking out for the general populace, but hating your fellow men because of skin color is WRONG!!!
The Presbyterians at Briarwood are NOT white supremacists. The only reason that white supremacy crap is in the news is because all the Russia stuff is revealing more dirt on the Democrats than the Trump crew, so the Left starts in on white supremacy and far too many people are gullible enough to fall for it. There are black men in this photo, at least three and there is no reason at all to start crying about white supremacy in regard to this article.
BROTHER RENE L. WHO SAID OTHERWISE ???
Actually, you are quite wrong. Black Lives Matters does not have a police force and it is NOT a religious group, but a social justice organization. The Nation of Islam expressly forbids their members from carrying firearms even when licensed or if law enforcement officers. They search EVERYONE before entering their mosques or events. The Black Panthers is not a religious organization but a political one so it doesn't have any place in this discussion. It's clear though that race is key to your argument. I wonder why no one brought out that the KKK were often law enforcement officers AND church deacons and members. I wonder why no one brought up Dylann Roof slaying innocents in a Charleston, SC Black church. Don't their lives matter? Goes to show it's really NOT about protecting the church goers. And it's also not about having "the faith of a mustard seed" that the God you worship will protect you. It's about something else decidedly not related to belief in God and protecting the flock. "Put your sword away, Peter. He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword." Anyone remember that?
How about some critical THINKING buddy?! Black lives matter is a militant hate group ! Obama left chemtrails in the sky to try and indoctrinate us towards this ungodly racist atheist movement but TRUMP will fix all!
Aaaaaand thanks for basically proving his point: you're so eager to blame people of color for nonsense instead of accepting that maaaaaaaayyybe Whitey* is responsible for some (most) of this injustice that you believe the black president masterminded the chemtrail conspiracy and focus exclusively on BLM instead of any of the facts Brother Sir Guy mentioned: neither BLM or Black Panthers are religious organizations, that the KKK was (and remains) stuffed full of law enforcement officers and church officials, and that people of color are demonstrably far more vulnerable to violence in a religious setting than Caucasians are.
Some things you might want to research, since you seem to have no concept of them and really need to: paranoia, victim complex, hypocrisy.
What is he going to do? Send all "African Americans" back to Africa? Or just kill anyone who looks rather Negroid?
Trump is, in my assessment a danger to the USA. I honestly think he has not the foggiest notion what anything he does is in anyone's interest except his own. If we have to go through 4 years of his "presidency" he will turn out to be the worst president we've ever had. That's in my humble opinion.
IMHO: This is a load of whoohah if I have ever heard one. Black Lives Matter because they are (sadly) even today oppressed. They, like the NAACP, are a social justice organisation. The fact of it all is this: there is a prevelant lie here: Let any of us never forget the truth of the matter. Unless you are an Amerindian, you are and always will be an immigrant. This is undeniable Anybody here have Scottish, English, Welsh, or any other minority from the U.K. in their background? You are an immigrant or your family is. Is there anyone from anywhere else in the world who's family came from somewhere else? You or your family is an immigrant. We human beings (Homo Sapiens) are and have always been travelers and explorers. We have always traveled for one reason or another. This country was formed by immigrants. We either stole outright or connived to remove the real locals from their property and with "the White Man's Destiny" doctrine moved west and conquered anybody who was "different" from us. We oppressed the Irish, We enslaved the black man and the Chinese, and stole from whomever we could to get to where we are today.
The American Indians migrated here, too.
YEAH RIGHT JOHN OWENS, THEY CAME OVER WITH C. COLUMBUS in 1492, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARD CRIMINAL TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
The American Indians migrated from Asia. They didn't spontaneously sprout from buffalo dung.
Y'all are taking this phony collective white guilt thing waaay too far. I did my homework. My people have not oppressed anyone since they came to this country. I can't tell about before that, but either way, I bear no responsibility for it, therefore I owe no one anything besides the common courtesy and respect all humans owe one another. I just want to tell you, this pretend guilt you feel will not make you less of a racist than you are.
JOHN OWENS PLEASE GET YOURSELF a NEW WORLD HISTORY BOOK and ENCYCLOPEDIA of the TIME in QUESTION, YOU SIR are 100% WRONG on ALL YOUR STATEMENTS, SORRY !!! WHAT SCHOOL did YOU ATTEND, SLEEPY HOLLER ???
No, Maher, I am 100% correct, but not because I am smarter than you. It is only because I know what I am talking about. I wish you would actually use your mind for something besides irritation. You might actually have something meaningful to contribute, but no one will ever know that if you continue the way you are going. "El indio ocupa la lanza para sostener su familia, pero el taraumara ocupa la mente para ofender la gente." Don't be a taraumara, John.
Luke 22:36 (NIV) He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
Roy, none of those organizations you've mentioned have police forces, private or otherwise. Oh, they have members who arm themselves and enforce the organizations rules on other members, but they are not police - they are internal terrorists.
The "League of the Perpetually Offended" are the very ones who have have created this fear for safety which has been brought down upon our society like mass paranoia. Reading the other comments to this post is telling to the general mindset of folks. 4000 people want to ensure their own safety in these trying times, and it would seem a majority of people feel they should suck it up and hang it out there like the rest of us. Maybe the offended have a point. If we all can't have a personal police force, why should they? Maybe if the church asked each congregation member to pony up one dollar every Sunday, this would bring $4000 a week into the coffers with which to hire a private security force, armed to the teeth, with which to ensure a feeling of safety which the State police seem unable to provide.
Exactly. Most of these guys are probably trained volunteers. Deacons, maybe, with family and friends at church. Most churches have plain-clothed armed members in them, in case a nut comes in shooting.
Is Black Lives Matter a religion and a church? Is the Black Panther Party a religion and a church? Now, why in this world would people form organizations like Black Lives Matter and Black Panther Party? What happened that compels folk to think and say "Black Lives Matter"? What was the true intent (not propaganda) of the original Black Panther Party and now the current BPP? Do you know that? Why in this world do "black" people feel the need for protection? Do you know this? Muslims fall under the, or should I say a Islamic religion. Are all Muslim sects under cover of a police force? Where is the evidence that all Muslims hate Christians and want to impose Sharia Law on the whole world? TV, alternative truth? If Sharia Law is supposed the all in all, why didn't the Arab world wipe out the Christian and all other religions when the Arabs had a stronghold on the world? Why didn't the Moors (black north Africans) wipe out Christianity when they ruled Spain and civilized parts of Europe (loads of non-people of color)? Why are people of color continually used to instill fear among non-people of color and justify war against them? The US asserts itself as the superpower and protector of human rights and safety in other parts of the world (and some Muslim parts of the world too), and a US church needs a police force. Really? If you don't feel the burn cause you too busy watching the people of color burn and think that heat won't touch you, you better think again. There is an evil in this world that does not give a fat rats ass about humans, regardless of race, creed, gender, religion, or color. We all have to choose which side we stand on. But be brave, be honest. Don't hide behind punk ass excuses.
IGNORANCE Min. CAREY, I G N O R A N C E !! THAT is WHY !!!
Is this church that unsafe? If it is and they require their own police force, perhaps they would be making better uses of their resources trying to determine why their grounds are so unsafe. What kind of congregants are they attracting? What messages are they sending? Is not the Lord their shepherd? This is a definite no-no!
I think the church should be able to police, but it should then lose its tax-free status. It is not possible to be both church AND state.
Having a security force does not make anyone part of the "State."
Mr. MOUNTS, your COMMENT SOUNDS VERY SOUND to ME, RIGHT ON SIR...........................
GOOD MORNING WORLD. IT IS TIME FOR REVELATION.
I AM REVELATION.
LAW OF GOD AND LAW OF LAND ARE ONE. IN ME WE THE PEOPLE. I AM A TRANSFORMER. I AM A CITIZEN OF THE WORLD. HOW SO MAY YOU ASK. I AM JESUS CHRIST. I AM IN HIM AND HE IN ME. I AM ONE WITH THE HEAVENLY FATHER AND I AM ONE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT. I AM A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. I AM TIED BY LEGAL BINDING CONTRACT ON PAPER AND BY BLOOD TO FAITH AND LAW OF LAND BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES A MEMBER OF NATO AND UNITED NATIONS. THAT WHICH IS LAW IS THE SAME ABOVE AS BELOW.
JESUS CHRIST WAS IS AND ALWAYS ETERNALLY WILL BE THE TOP COP. THE TOP UNDER COVER OF GOD COP. THE TOP MESSENGER AND ENFORCER OF POWER OF LOVE TO GOVERN THE HUMAN BEINGS. SANCTIFY YOURSELVES BEFORE GOD AND BE A LIVING SAINT. YOU ARE NO LONGER HUMAN BEINGS BUT A TRANSFORMER OF HUMAN BEINGS INTO LIVING SAINTS.
A LIVING SAINT HAS KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING EXPERIENCE AND GOD GIVEN WISDOM. CHRIST BODY DOMINATES THE WORLD. IT IS IN YOU AND YOU IN HIM THAT ARE THE SAME IN ALL GOVERNMENTS OF LAND.
IN WE THE PEOPLE ARE YOU. UNIVERSAL POWER. IN EVERY NATION THE UNIVERSAL CHURCH HAS COPS THAT HAVE POWER OF SWORD OF MOUTH. THE SWORD HAS NOW BECOME THE GUN.
AS YOU ARE WITNESSES OF HAIL MARY MOTHER OF ALL BOMBS SO SHALL YOU SEE THE LIGHT OF MY KINGDOM OF LOVE AND TOUGH LOVE. YET THOSE WHO ARE LUKE WARM HEART AND THE HOLY SPIRIT DOES NOT ABIDE IN THEM WITH HOT ON FIRE FOR TRUTH WITH PASSION AND LOVE FOR MY HEAVENLY FATHER WITH BOLDNESS OR CALM COOL HEAD AND COLLECTED TOUGH BOLDNESS TO FIGHT CRIME AND CAST OUT SIN OF MY HEAVANLY FATHERS GARDEN THE WORLD. SHALL BE CAST OUT OF THE WORLD IN WHICH WE CALL LIFE.
You can deny the Father and you can deny the son BUT IF YOU DENY THE HOLY SPIRIT OF TRUTH PEACE LOVE AND LIFE THEN YOU ARE ETERNALLY DOOMED.
I AM A U BACK. I am a Universal Born Again Christian Kid. I am a child of my Heavanly Father God. A Universal KING and a King amongst Kings. I as his Child am HIS FORCE FOR HIS GLORY. I AM IN YOU ALL. ALL FAITH SYSTEMS. THE LAW OF LAND IS HIS LAW. HIS FAITH SYSTEM. YET IN THAT SYSTEM ARE SINFUL MEN WHO DO NOT REPENT WHO SIN AND WORK IN DARKNESS WITHIN THE LAW SYSTEM. THIS I SAY NOT ABOUT THE UNDER COVER OFFICERS. THIS I SAY ABOUT THOSE WHO FELL TO LOVE OF MONEY AND NOT LOVE OF PEOPLE.
I AM AN OFFICER OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND AN OFFICER OF LOVE OF GOD. SIN LEADS TO DEATH. REPEAT YOUR SIN 666 SIX HUNDRED AND SIXTY SIX TIMES AND HAVE THAT NUMBER IN YOUR HEAD AS WELL AS IN YOUR HAND YOU WILL NOW BE CONSIDERED A MAN AND A MAN OF BEAST OR FAITHLESS WITHOUT GOD AND GOD'S GLORY OF JESUS CHRIST SANTIFICATION.
DO THAT WHICH YOU DO FOR THE GLORY OF GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST THE ONLY LIVING ETERNALLY FAITHFUL SYSTEM THAT RESCUES AND TRANSFORMER TRANSFORMING MEN AND WOMENS LIVES TO SAVE ALL OF GODS CHILDREN.
SAVE THE LITTLE ANGELS THE CHILDREN SAVE THE BIG ANGELS OF LAW SYSTEM THE CHILDREN OF GOD. We are all children of God.
WE CAN NOT FORCE BELIEVES BUT WE CAN LEAD BY EXAMPLE. THROUGH COMUNICATION AND COOPERATION IN THE BODY OF LAW. THEY ARE BOTH IN ME. MY RIGHT HAND AND MY LEFT HAND. FOLLOW THE LAW ON MY RIGHT HAND AND YOU WILL BE LIFTED TO DRIVE IN BOLDNESS AND PEACE OR MY LEFT HAND WILL DRIVE YOU TO MY RIGHT HAND OF JUDGEMENT.
LET ME EMBRACE YOU WITH BOTH HANDS OR HANG ON WITH ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER. DO NOT STAND IN MY WAY OR WAY OF POSITIVE PROGRESS BECAUSE GOD WILL NOT HELP YOU.
I HAVE SPOKEN AND SO IT SHALL BE FOR THE GLORY OF GOD AMIN.
Umm... okay. Don't call us. We'll call you. Next!
Give it a rest and learn to edit, for crying out loud.
The church has had a police force in the past. It was called "The Army" and those in charge gave full control to the church. That didn't work out well. If the church forms its own police force, that force will swear its loyalty to the church and such forces are known to militarise over time. The abuses that stem from that type of loyalty know no bounds. If the church needs protection, contract with a security service or hire off duty officers. An armed private force is a slap in the face to everything a true house of worship stands for.
WE the PEOPLE have a WRITTEN CONSTITUTION, this GANG of THIEVES U call UR GOVERNMENT LIKENS to the KAOS gang from GET SMART and it WOULD be a GREAT IDEA if EVERYONE got SMART and GOT RID of TRUMP and HIS TRASH........
An incomplete recap of the corruption that has happened under Obama's watch: Eric Holder, the “stimulus,” Fast and Furious, Solyndra, Obamacare, the census power grab, the IRS targeting of political opponents, executive amnesty, the Snowden NSA spy revelations, the debate collusion with Candy Crowley, race-baiting for votes, selling our soul to Iran and Cuba, wiretapping allies, spying on journalists, destroying attempts to clean up voter rolls, the Benghazi video. Politicizing and weaponizing our government and its bureaucracies. And so much more. This was eight years of a purposeful, corrupt power grab in the worst of ways. And no, I do not believe for a second he did not know, or did not incite these to happen. Fish rot from the head down. The media was the neck of this administration.
This oozing scandal of spying on the Trump circle is being found out in spite of the media effort to spike it. More people will find out as the facts emerge, it is too big to hide. Obama and Susan Rice’s actions are too bizarre to bury. Wikileaks was not covered by the media, yet half of America knew about it. This is far bigger than Wikileaks revelations. As the information streams forth about Obama’s wrongful spying, only hardcore true believers will stand with him. Eventually, the rest of his actions will be scrutinized. This will take time, likely years. The facts will shine a devastating light on his Presidency, and his legacy: Will be far worse than Nixon, and he will be considered as worse. He and his media enablers just don’t know it.
You are correct. That is why all of a sudden, OUT OF THE CLEAR BLUE SKY, we have a big hooplah about "white supremacy." Nothing was going on a few months ago, but suddenly EVERYTHING is about white supremacy. They think they will distract us into trying to prove we are NOT, and thereby not have time to deal with all of the Left's criminal conspiracies, which are being revealed every day.
JOHN BOOGER OWINS, WHY !!! DIRECT UR QUESTIONS to UR DADDY ORANGUtRUMP DOTAR, the NO# 1 WHITE SUPREMIST PIG of ALL TIME and a COWARD ta BOOT, DUMP the ORANGUtRUMP DOTAR and ALL HIS VILLAGE CLOWN IDIOTS !!!
Witch burnings on a cool fall evening - ah, the good old days.
This is really chilling.
If their only jurisdiction is the church property, and ONLY the church property, then fine. That being said, they must strictly adhere to secular law.
Albeit I find this a little unnerving, I don't have a problem with a church or congregation, that wants to protect their flock, keep them free from harm or make safety a top priority. Colleges and Universities with large campuses have their own police forces to keep their students and faculty safe also.
As long as the jurisdiction of this police force authority is strictly on church property I believe it's fine. All they will be is overpaid security guards. In light of the recent increases in church violence and threats that has occurred throughout the country and the world, churches may not have another choice. Just recently this past Easter there was a church bombing in Egypt. Perhaps and unfortunately, this may be the wave of the future.
If churches do decide to have their own private police forces, it would be less offensive to parishioners and the general public if these police officers wear civilian clothes instead of uniforms. That way by blending in they won't look like prison guards or act out of their realm of authority.
WRONG REV., and WRONG AGAIN, LOOK @ DELTA, TOO, TOO MANY P O L I C E ALREADY and they DO NOTHING, BEFORE the FACT only AFTER..................................
John Maher, if that is your real name, all you do is harass every poster who would like to express their thoughts or opinions. You write like a mental patient. You make no sense or have a coherent thought. You're nothing more than a malcontent troll. You really need to seek medical help. Or an excorcist. You write like you're possessed by a demon. I'll pray for you. As for me, I am licensed to conceal carry. I'm armed at all times and I will defend myself and my parishioners.
REV.GROSS, is that in the NAME of GOD, JESUS, MARY, JOSEPH or the HOLY TRINITY ??? DUMP the ORANGUtRUMP DOTAR and ALL HIS VILLAGE CLOWN IDIOTS !!! DOES YOUR LICENSE include IDIOCY to CARRY ALSO ???
There is no Holy Trinity. That is a heathen concept perpetuated by the Babylonian Mystery Religion AKA the Roman Catholic Church.
JUST LIKE the REST of the HEATHEN TEACHINGS in YOUR BIBLE, D A, DUMP the ORANGUtRUMP DOTAR and HIS HEATHEN VILLAGE CLOWN IDIOTS and JOHN BOOGER OWINS, AKA RHENFIELD * * YES MASTER *
There are no heathen teachings in it, Maher. Only heathen interpretations.
THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TEACHING YOU BECAUSE U CAN'T INTERPRET SHYTE BOOGER OWINS, OR ALL YOU CAN INTERPRET IS SHYTE JOHN BOOGER OWINS, DUMP the ORANGUtRUMP DOTAR and ALL HIS VILLAGE CLOWN IDIOT INTERPRETERS, LEARN HOW to READ F H !!!
nO, mAHER, yOU ARE not TEACHING. yOU ARE EXCRETING wITH YOUR MOUth.
This sounds completely ridiculous. I would expect to see this concept in The Onion.
The idea of this is insane as it totally crosses the boundary between church and state.
Not since the Burning Times ended were churches allowed to hold the reins of secular power and for good reason. All too often, church officials loose sight of their responsibilities and duties, as have so many Christian denominations today. Police power in the hands of any church is no better than a box of matches in the hands of a child.
I grew up Presybyterian but I would never agree to police mixed with church.......really ? if they need security then hire security company............
Wow! After reading these comments I'm surprised someone hasn't mentioned an alien invasion yet.
If the church wants its own Christ cops, fine with me as long as they pay for it out of their own tax-free money. BUT... they should only be active at official church functions, like Sunday services, festivals, etc. They can carry guns if properly licensed. They must be completely separate from federal, state and local law enforcement. They are subject to the same laws as the rest of us. There can never be a situation where they believe they are exempt from federal, state and local laws. They are simply a private security force, the same kind rich people have. Anything other than that is unacceptable.
And sorry, folks. This has nothing to do with Trump, Obama, Black Lives Matter, Blue Lives Matter, Black Panthers, KKK, black people, white people, black and white people, short people, tall people, people who need people (they're the luckiest people in the world), LGTBQ people, purple people eaters, Wal-Mart greeters, cheaters, repeaters, repeaters, repeaters... atheists, Buddhists, Christians, Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Scientologists, Wiccans, or chickens.
Right, Jim. Guess it is difficult for some to focus. Growing up Catholic, we had Jesuit Priests and Sisters of Mercy. They were much better than police officers. FEAR is the absence of FAITH, so if you want protection because you are fearful, better change your religion.
Jim, I agree with your last paragraph. I don't think we should go against the Constitution, but rather, keep Church and State separate. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's. The Church might find different options if it looked for them (and I don't know if they have). They could support the local Police force by donating some of their budget for hiring more Police Officers. They could hire Security Guards. They could find out what facets in their communities are in trouble and get some money, Love, Hope and help to them in the form of food shelves, meals, clinics, youth organizations, remedial school help, housing, legal aid, domestic and sexual violence programs and safe houses, child care, etc. That seems like the right thing to do to me. Yes, we need protection. No, we don't need State or Church Militias. We need God's Love.
According to Law Enforcement Directory, there are approximately 12,135 federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies in the United States. In 2008, state and local law enforcement agencies employed more than 1.1 million people on a full-time basis, including about 765,000 sworn personnel (defined as those with general arrest powers). Agencies also employed approximately 100,000 part-time employees, including 44,000 sworn officers.
How many more Police Officers do you need.
The thought of a privatized religious police force sounds like a lot like the Early Catholicism in Italy. Especially when the Catholics would use the knights (the time periods cop) to extend their reach with a crusade. I'm not sure how they would determine the difference between the law and their religious beliefs.
If god is so great then why is he not looking after his houses and flock. However, let's not forget; when Jesus was alive; you sailed past Spain, you fell off the flat earth into the void. Did he ever know there was anything past Spain?
That is a good question hi
Any organization is entitled to have its' own security. Having said that, the public is also entitled to have a security force. We call those people police officers and their general motto is "Protect and Serve". Since they are employed by public demand they are paid by the local and/or state governments in which they serve. Because of this distinction those so labeled must perform their duties with out bias against color, creed, religion, ect. They also cannot receive favors of any kind save for publicly approved donations from any individual or organization. If the church wishes to have a security force, they have that right. They pay for it, and it is used with in the confines of the churches designated and publicly recognized area of operation. This security force has NO legal enforcement outside of that area and any enforcement involving detaining ANY person MUST involve the publicly recognized police representative. I personally think this church looks foolish and smacks of cultism but that would just be my opinion. As long as MY tax money is not paying for it, they can look stupid all they want. It is time to wake up people. Stop trying to use pretty words or quote some 2000 year old scripture that only gets used to argue with, or better still stop being lead like someone who wants to be in a cult. If you cannot think for yourself, if you cannot speak for yourself, you have no business trying to minister others.
If the church is paying for the security and the congregation agrees that they need it, then what is the problem? Most of your larger churches have some type of security. Most people don't realize that they are present but they are. I have no problem with a church having a security force(call it what you will). If tax payers are not footing the bill - then they have no say on the matter.
THE TAXPAYERS ARE FOOTING the BILL, the CHURCH PAYS NO TAXES, W T F U
Wow, a lot of hate being spewed in a bunch these posts! Embarrassing!
NOTHING in this WORLD is MORE DANGEROUS than SINCERE IGNORANCE and CONSCIENTIOUS STUPIDITY, LOK at the WHITEHOUSE.............................
For the sake of all those in the vicinity of this church, let's hope the folks at Briarwood understand that Mosaic Law was meant for ancient Hebrews, not the general public, and certainly not in 2017. There shouldn't be any reason to equip their force with Gaydar and Blasphemometers to identify those that need elimination. Both have proven to be unreliable and subject to the influence of bigotry and ignorance in the hands of the delusional.
Just an FYI, Presbyterians do not abide by the Mosaic Law, nor teach it. They go to church on Sunday, and have female pastors, and eat pork, observe Christmas, Easter, etc. This has nothing to do with church doctrine, but church security.
Think of the following. The state is independent to all groups and shall not interfere nor endorse founding of a religion.. Giving a church the rights to establish its own police force is conflicting on a constitutional level. Besides that it will open a pandora's box of other churches that will get the rights to establish their own police forces.. This generates huge problems with accountability. As stated before who watched the watchmen especially when every body will create their own police forces.. And on a horrifying side note. You cannot allow only Christian churches to have their own police forces. Equality of religions opens the way to e.g. Mosques getting the right to establish police forces which creates the nighhtmare situation where fundamentalist mosques will have to be alllowed to have their own police that might be very tempted to follow sharia law over US law. And as a lot of devout muslims have the tendency to react binary approach to questioning the tenets of their religion, I see a chance of bloodbaths being as a result of violently defendeding the faith. On the scale of bad ideas, establishment of church police is running off the scale on the insanity scale. They just have to hire the police if needed.. NO church police.. Horrible idea
Okay, Memirsbrunnr, you said, "The state is independent to all groups and shall not interfere nor endorse founding of a religion.. Giving a church the rights to establish its own police force is conflicting on a constitutional level. Besides that it will open a pandora’s box of other churches that will get the rights to establish their own police forces.. "
Now, consider that. YOU SAID the church having its own police force is conflicting on a constitutional level. The constitution does not say, NO CHURCH SHALL HAVE ITS OWN POLICE FORCE, but that is beside the point.
If the church contracted with the city or county to have the local government's police there, YOU'D SAY THAT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL ALSO. Now, it's okay if police show up at races or football games, or even to escort funeral processions or parades, but you wouldn't want them protecting CHURCHES, unless they were predominantly black churches being threatened by those evil white supremacists. Then it would be okay.
These people are just trying to protect their property and the property of their attendees. Criminals don't respect churches or church-goers, and they really don't care about the constitution, unless they can twist it to their own defense. I think most of the people opposed to this are off their own rockers. Are there security personnel at any malls or stores you frequent? What about your bank? Do you ever go to a bar? Have you heard of bouncers?
What is it going to hurt?
Hello my fellow brothers
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THE NEW POPE, NOTHING NEW THERE, THAT'S OLD NEWS FROM THE DARK AGES, YOU SAY GIMME HEAVEN the CHURCH'S ALL of THEM SAY GIMME MONEY, WELL I GUESS U CAN'T GO ANYWHERE FREE of CHARGE ???
THERE ARE NO BLACK POLICE in that UNIFORMED LINE UP, N O N E !!!
Yes there are, but either way, WHAT DAMN DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE? They are Presbyterians, not white supremacists. Don't see a lot of white guys on pro basketball teams, either, or black guys on motorcycle teams, or stock-car-racing teams. Not really important AT ALL. But there are black men in the photo. For sure the man to the immediate left of the center in the rear row. I looked with a magnifying glass at his hands. THAT IS A BLACK MAN. There may be more that cannot be seen as there are many men not visible in this photo and many whose ethnicity is indeterminable. Many could also be Hispanic or Mediterranean, but of course, that doesn't matter to anyone who wants to wring their hands about "white supremacy" because it's all just black and white to them, except when it is convenient to cry about Hispanics. I just keep re-iterating, this is not a race issue, but a security issue.
JOHN OWENS there is NO ISSUE NOR ARE THERE ANY BLACK POLICEMAN, I have NO idea WHY this as YOU SAY HAS BECAME a RACIAL ISSUE, I thought it WAS ABOUT the CHURCHES HIRING PRIVATE THUGS so as to GUARD their ILL GOTTEN GAINS and ofcourse the TANK of HOLY WATER to BAPTIZE the RICH so they can GO to HELL like EVERYONE ELSE, GROW UP JOHN, MADURAR..............
CLEAN YER FRIGGIN MAGNIFYING GLASS JOHN OWENS, NO BLACKS in the THUG CROWD, NOPE, NO KENYANS..................................
JOHN!!! You brought it up here: "HOW MANY POLICE FORCES DOES the WHITE MAN have ??? and that SIR is the PROBLEM, TOO,TOO MANY FEAR MONGERs in this COUNTRY FED LIES..." and RENE L commented,
April 19, 2017 at 8:36 am
Brother Maher your “keyword” is WHITE!!! This has nothing to do with being Godly, everything with being a white supremacist. It is simply another way to project hatred in a world that does not need it, there is enough hate!!! I agree the rich and the politicians are NOT looking out for the general populace, but hating your fellow men because of skin color is WRONG!!!"
Then you keep saying that man is not black when anyone can plainly see that he is.
JOHN BOOGER SEWER MOUTH OWINS, EAT SHYTE and LIVE, WE NEED a DEMONSTRATION of IGNORANCE DAILY to REMIND US HOW LUCKY WE ARE NOT to be as the ORANGUtRUMP VILLAGE IDIOTS, thank you BOOGER OWINS for LIGHTING the WAY NOT to GO, DO NOT FORGET to WIPE YOUR LIPS BEFORE YOU LEAVE the TOILET.................
BROTHERS AND SISTERS. IT IS NOT THIS OR THAT; IT IS JUST THE CONTRARY, LET OTHERS WITH THEIR MATTERS. WE NEED TO BE CALMED PEACE AND LOVE IN OUR CONGREGATION, BLESSINGS. REV.DR.PEREZBLANCO.
BRAVO HERMANO ENRIQUE LUIS, REV.Dr.PEREZBLANCO, it's ONLY WORDS BUTT WORDs are ALL WE HAVE to DUMP the ORANGUtRUMP DOTAR and ALL HIS VILLAGE CLOWN IDIOTS !!!
How are we to determine what is and what is not God’s will? If you truly believe in God and believe this is not your world but our adversaries then let those who try in vain to control this world have this world. For in the end, their love for control of this world will likely be their Waterloo.
A step further, prayer not directed to the absolute worship of God but others health, soldiers and yes, even your sports teams is but the epitome of pride and selfishness and not prayer to God to let His will be done.
It may be the sad truth but it is the truth and the truth is generally the most difficult to accept especially by those who are not truthful to themselves.
GOOD ta GO STEVE, A POST to REMEMBER, the TRUTH HURTS BUTT it is the TRUTH !!! DUMP the ORANGUtRUMP DOTAR and ALL HIS VILLAGE CLOWN IDIOTS !!!
This crap has been going on to long the church should hire a armed security company that is licensed in the state they will follow the laws and turn over trespassers and others to the ploice the church should get their head out of their collective ass
POLICE STATE ??? NO GOD POLICE and I THOUGHT the ANGELS did that JOB, I WONDER if these so CALLED POLICE ANGELS should LOCK UP ROY the CREEPER MOORE, that is THEIR JURISTICTION, PERVERTS, PREDATORS, YOU KNOW those GUYs that PASS AROUND the COLLECTION BASKETS, DUMP the DOTAR ORANGUtRUMP............
I am old enough to remember the beginning of Nazi Germany. Some of you folk are Hitler Youths look alikes, Brown Shirt admirers, and genocidal enthusiasm permeates your comments. Try to find a history book, there has to be one somewhere in your City, County, well maybe not if you live in Alabama. Ignorance is the most deadly disease to which we are subjected.
Your next to last sentence is a pretty ignorant put-down of Alabama (of which you obviously know nothing), and your first ignores the fact that the men in the first photo are not standing in front of the actual church building of Briarwood Presbyterian, as shown in the second photo.
Targets they are. One step closer to a police state run by a church? No it is that the police, security guards, or what they want to call themselves are and only can be on church property. One inch over then they are not anything but people carrying guns. They are no different than church boy scouts with guns.
Campus Cops are something new?