Christian and GayA growing number of religious groups are in support of gay marriage.

The Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI) has released a study which found that 61% of Americans now support same-sex marriage – more than double those who oppose it. Perhaps most striking, however, were the responses from people of faith. Steadfast opponents of marriage equality for years, faith groups are coming around at a surprising clip. Well, most of them anyway.

A whopping 97% of Unitarians and 77% of Jews now believe all marriages are equal before the law. Even more surprising is the increasing support amongst more traditionally conservative religious groups. Nearly two-thirds of Catholics, Orthodox Christians, and white mainline Protestants now say they’re in favor of gay marriage.

The Resistance

However, white evangelicals and Mormons remain two notable exceptions to this trend. 58% of white evangelicals and 53% of Mormons remain staunchly opposed to letting gay people marry. Many simply cannot reconcile their religious teachings with homosexual relationships.

Gay couples are currently barred from the LDS church, and members who violate the church’s ban on homosexual relationships can face discipline. Those who come out as gay are encouraged to “reform” and enter into heterosexual marriages – though (unsurprisingly) such relationships are prone to failure.

In areas of the U.S. where evangelical faith has a strong grip on society, some county clerks still refuse to provide marriage licenses to gay couples – a direct violation of the Supreme Court’s 2015 ruling.

Religious opposition to same sex marriageWinds of Change

However, as the graph above shows, even these groups are trending toward majority support. It may just take a bit longer for them to get there, explains the PRRI report. The research indicates that the next generation of LDS members and evangelicals will play a major role in this paradigm shift. As they grow into leadership roles within the church, this much more progressive generation of young people will likely push the dial toward acceptance.

“The God the Mormon Church worships has always been way behind the 8-ball. Expect more from your church than hate, people!” said one LDS follower who commented on a Salt Lake Tribune article about the study. “Kids are smart enough to know that the older generation’s homophobia is cruel and hateful and there’s no point to it,” wrote another.

The stats seem to back this up. Amongst evangelicals, for example, twice as many young adults now favor same-sex marriage (53%) compared to those over 65 years of age (25%). More than half of Mormon millennials now support same sex marriage.

Freedom to Discriminate Up for Debate

In another sign that attitudes are changing, the study also found that six in ten Americans oppose the idea of businesses refusing to serve LGBT couples on purely religious grounds. The Supreme Court is currently determining whether a Colorado baker was legally entitled to refuse his services to a gay couple because their relationship violated his religious beliefs.

Mormons and evangelicals are once again outliers, with 53% insisting business owners should have the right to act in accordance with their faith and deny LGBT customers.

Born GayImpact on America

It’s now been almost three years since gay marriage was legalized nationwide. Despite dire warnings from religious groups, the institution of marriage has shown no signs of crumbling to the ground. In fact, you could argue it’s stronger than ever. Straight couples are still getting married at the same rate, and gay couples can finally enjoy all the benefits of entering a legal union.

It’d be difficult to find any tangible examples of social decay resulting from the change – which flies in the face of all the fearmongering we heard leading up to the Supreme Court decision. Vulnerable children aren’t turning gay by the droves. No gay orgies have been reported in the streets (well, that we know of). Straight marriages are just as meaningful as they’ve always been.

The PRRI report indicates that religious groups are slowly coming to this realization. The older generation of backwards thinkers are being replaced with younger, more compassionate generations who’re increasingly willing to accept people as they are – not as some ancient book decrees they ought to be.

 

123 comments

  1. James says:

    Sodom and gamora, how ever you spell them. I ain’t saying that any one is going to hell, no judgement. Yet ,sexual immorality is a very strong tool of the devil. Once we mix desire so much with religion then it’s it the religion of Sodom and…. So that all being said, is sexual desire stronger than self control? Do you attack someone for believe the opposite as you? Or do you try to convince them that their religion except you way of life? Christians don’t except sin, they try to stay away, ask for forgiveness and help sinners. Tolerance is the word….

    1. bob says:

      ‘Tolerance’ is NOT the word! The ‘word’ is God’s Word! And there is NO toleration toward homosexuality!

      Homosexuality is an abomination, a defilement, vile, and unnatural against the character of a loving, righteous Heavenly Father. (Leviticus 18:22 (abomination); Genesis 19:1-11 (Sodom and Gomorrah); Romans 1:25-28 (unnatural); I Corinthians 6:9,10 (danger of hell)

      God hates the PRACTICE of homosexuality, but loves the homosexual. He’s capable and ready to transform the lives of any and all types of sinners, regardless of their shortcomings.

      1. Alan Meunier says:

        Yes, speaking of “sexual immortality”, it was Lott and his DAUGHTERS…cherry pick much? Also, as in your bible, do you eat seafood? Have a beard? Don’t cut your hair? Don’t work on Sunday? According to your bible you should also not be here, of all places, casting stones. Hypocrisy 101

        1. Stephen P. .Moser sr. says:

          Very well said😎

        2. John Owens says:

          The Bible doesn’t say anything about not working on Sunday. The Bible treats Sunday as any other day.

      2. Stephanie Willey says:

        The God I know does not hate. A God of unconditional love and infinite grace has no room for hate. Hate and intolerance I think are the purview of a different god.

        1. Rev J says:

          Hi Ms. Willey,
          You must not be a bible reader. How do I know this? Because it is clearly stated in many biblical passages that God does hate sin but loves the person he created, the sinner. I include some passages for your enlightenment on this. God can perfectly hate sin and sinners in all holiness while also perfectly loving sinners and desiring they repent and receive forgiveness (Psalm 5; 11; Malachi 1:3; Revelation 2:6; 2 Peter 3:9). As human beings, we cannot love perfectly nor hate perfectly (without malice). So we need the reminder to love the sinner yet hate the sinful action. We are called to love others and also “to keep oneself unstained from the world” (James 1:27). “Love the sinner, hate the sin” is one way to do this. Just remember that God did not destroy humanity, in Noah’s time, because He loved us. It was because He hated what we had become so much He decided kill all life with the flood whom did not freely chose life in Him. However He so loved his people that he offered us salvation by voluntarily entering God’s Ark to be saved. Not many people entered because their was only evil in their hearts and no desire for repentance. Only Noah and his family, who had faith and I sure we sinners to some extent, in God and sough out His protection from the storm.
          Yours In Christ,
          Rev J

          1. Anita Rogers says:

            This makes it seem as if same sex intimacy is more sinful than straight people having sex. We have helped so many by allowing marriage for our brothers and sisters. Ther stay out of sexual sin dinner

        2. Benoit says:

          The one thing I have not seen in all these posts is the reslity of gay genetics. People are born crosseired and GAY. So unless Satan is creating himan beimgs then God is making Gay people

      3. John A Anderson, CD says:

        Interesting, Bob, how there is not one reference to the first 3 books of the NT in your posting. Romans and Corinthians were both written by Saul of Tarsis, as was the majority of the NT. The only books written by contemporaries of Yeshua ibn Youssef ben David were those first 3. NOWHERE in those books does he say anything about homosexuality (and, there would be at least 1 reference to it if he HAD said something, simply because the censors who chose the books accepted as orthodox NT, would have included it, knowing the Roman stance on the subject). Saul brought in the traditional Jewish response to the matter, because he did not unlearn what he had learned as a child. It IS counterproductive genetically, as there is no way to produce a child, but it is FAR from unnatural. If it was, then it would not continue to be so widespread, on a PLANETARY basis. Prior to European contact, it was actually very common for those who, today, would be classed as LGBTQ, to become shamans and/or other respected figures in their communities among Native Americans.

        1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW, LCSW says:

          Great writing John. Our tribes have always recognized and respected “two spirits.”

        2. bob says:

          John: Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 19:4&5 is clearly monogamous, male and female. His concept is contrary to same-sex relations.

          Jesus, also, said He and His Father are one. So, God’s (Old Testament) views on homosexuality are Jesus’ views.

      4. Rev J says:

        Amen brother Bob. God and Jesus have no tolerance for evil at all. God and Jesus destroys evil in a heartbeat. The Gospel is not hard to follow. It is clear and tells all what is allowed by God and what is forbidden. It is when we get to doubting the message that we become confused and stumble into sin. Eve did not just up and decide to sin she was double talked by the snake oil salesman, the devil, who made her question what God had commanded them not to do. Just like kids who get everything their little hearts desire but still want that one thing refused to them. For evil to exceed all that is required is that good people sit and do nothing.

      5. Oh Mo says:

        Yo, Bob! YOU are the problem.

    2. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW, LCSW says:

      What is “sexual immorality” and how does it apply to people who love each other???? Sodom??? Isn’t that a mythical story from the Middle East? It also seems that christians have great difficulty “staying away from sin”, however it is defined.” How is the “devil” involved in all this??? Doesn’t make sense, sorry.

      1. Rev J says:

        Easy way to explain belief or faith in God: For those who have faith/belief in God no explanation is necessary. For those who do not have faith/belief in God no explanation is possible. The Bible is clear and not ambiguous. Homosexuality is an abhorrence before God. That is what the Christian Bible states. But again that is for Christian believers. If you are not of the faith then why do you care how we believe. Live your life for you. Only you have to answer to God for life and your sins not I. The real question is why are these Godless people forcing their lifestyle down the Christina’s throat? The only answer is clear the devil can not abide with Christian folks and this last bastion of faithful believers in God must be taken down. Evil is as evil does. To believe or to not believe, that is the question. This is up to the individual because God has given everyone free will.

        1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW, LCSW says:

          My question to you is why did you become a ULC minister when the monastery supports the rights of LGBT to marry and upon your ordination, you agreed to our organization’s social, spiritual focus? Your bible is not ta holy book for everyone here.

        2. Dave Steventon says:

          Well said!

        3. Paul Buckley Sachs says:

          We seem to spend a great deal of time talking about the “sin” of homosexuality. Jesus never mentions homosexuality. If it were that important something tells me he would’ve. Not much is said by you who preach against homosexual sin about teenagers having premarital sex and the number of unwed mothers continues to grow. The fathers of these children are rarely held responsible . I think that’s sad.

          Paul

          1. Gary says:

            Paul you are right about fathers of unwed mothers and it is sad not to know your father and I and one of those kids that never knew my father but I had a step dad and He was my DAD and not all kids are blessed as I was .
            I want to give credit to who credit is due so thank you ..
            and now about romans 1:24 -32 and we all fight that battle of flesh
            In the book ok of Genesis 5:2 God made them male and female
            it’s not my word but that of God and I am no-one to judge or throw stones
            I have enough of my own sins to answer for but by grace I am forgiven and Jesus
            did say turn from your sins and sin no more so that’s why i’m on my knees asking for forgiveness and strength to sin no more ..

    3. Stephanie Willey says:

      Some Christians and born Transgender too. It’s time ya’ll got over THAT too.

      1. Rev J says:

        No they were not born Transgender as you claim. If you do not know the difference get hold of biology book and it will explain that difference. God made male and female. He did not make ??????????. You are one who is trying to create doubt and hence confusion just as satan did to Eve in the garden. I will pray for your soul.

        1. Stephanie Willey says:

          Rev J, I once believed much like you, but I have studied human physiology, the brain, sexuality, gender, and the “self” for 18 years. All of the REAL scientific and medical studies and research performed over the leas 50 years makes it very clear that you ARE born with your core sexuality and sexual preferences, AND your core identity or gender. Sexuality and gender identity exist and reside in actual physical structures in the brain and are not determined by your genitalia. The Bible is a good book but it is not science and does not contain scientific and/or medical facts.

          1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW, LCSW says:

            Ye,s Rev Willey, and for the first 6 weeks of gestation, only the X chromosome exists in all fetuses, XY develops after that. The male writers of the bible had no clue about biology, physiology, development or science in general.

          2. Anita Rogers says:

            Amen again!!

            They have proved some 35 plus years ago is your brain that determines who you are not the external.

        2. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW, LCSW says:

          Rev J: Such an arrogant and disrespectful response to Rev WIlley. Shame on you.

        3. Timothy Wade says:

          There are people born who are true hermaphrodites. Get hold of a biology book yourself! What is Gods plan concerning these? May they choose for themselves or must they believe this is some punishment leveled by God. Or perhaps they need someone like you to explain Gods will? I will pray harder for your soul. I bet you believe the bible is literally true and if so then I guess Isaiah 45: should be taken literally as well or do you interpret when it is convenient? Look up self righteousness in you KJV. Love you, brother.

      2. Anita Rogers says:

        Amen!

    4. Dave Steventon says:

      But tolerance is needed by both sides. The old school mantra is “sticks and stones might break my bones but names will never hurt me!”
      I’m used to them by now. I’m referred to, not necessarily to my face as WASP, homophobic, mysogonist to name but a few.
      I acknowledge that Jesus came for sinners, not the righteous. And I am all for the teaching of “judge not lest ye be judged”.
      Yet society rejoices in the alternative to heterosexual lifestyle. Tell me, when did we get a great to be straight parade? Or have government leaders promote the need for children to have a traditional father and mother lifestyle? Speaking out this way I am not mysogonistic; simply a Christian living to Christian values I have learned since I was a child. A gift being denied more and more new age children.
      I do not judge the LGTBA movement. I have close friends that are homosexual. They have courage to tell society that they choose to be different. How many of the rest of us, with at least one skeleton in our closet, would be less outspoken if those skeletons were exposed?
      One can only live in Christ by not judging, but accepting the fact that any that are morally corrupt will have to answer to God who will sit in their final judgement. All we can do as Christians is to embrace all for what they are and lead by example, no matter what name we are branded with.

    5. Gary says:

      I’m no one to cast stones I’ve lied to make me look better ,committed adultery lusted after the flesh and still battle it sexual immorality ,I’ve stolen cheated others
      I was a drunkard and used drugs, I tried to deny the very existence of God to justified my desires and actions ,I was a bad person inside while looking like a good person on the outside many people stand and point out the sins of others
      without looking at their own sins , it’s not easy to turn from sin and I battle it ever day but God has forgiven me and ever day I’m on my knees thanking Him for giving me strength to see my sins and the strength to turn away from those sins I am a sinner saved by Grace ,God is willing to have a personal relationship with each one of us but it’s our choice and our choices will determine where we will spend Eternity…..

      1. Gary says:

        who am I to change the word of God

    6. Ben says:

      “if one had as many standard sized Rubik’s Cubes as there are permutations, one could cover the Earth’s surface 275 times.” Now picture how many permutations can result from ne strand of DNA when two parents mate. The possibilities are endless and to say that being Gay or lesbian is not one of them would be as dumb and as ignorant as saying GMOs cause cancer or just as stupid as claiming that eating Gluten free is a health Choice.

      Get over it, God created Gays and lesbians and claiming that they are an abomination is the abomination. To claim that a child or anyone can opt to be gay or a lesbian is an insult to God, right, because he created them too unless Satan is a creator, right?

      What you outa do, is sit back in aw at the diversity of it all. Unless you want to claim an albino tiger is an abomination, or a child born with abirth defect is an abomination, there are no defect to life, all permutations of a wonderful creation.

      No wonder religion is becoming extinct. Remember, Man wrote the Bible. You cannot change that Man wrote the Bible. Human, put Pen to paper and wrote the Bible in the same way that humans interpret it. Quote it as God’s word all you want it does not change the reality that you are quoting other human beings writings.

      1. Gary says:

        I for one believe that the Bible is the word of God and each of us has a free will that was given to us to either accept or to reject His word and that choice will determine where we will spend eternity and it doesn’t matter if a person has made a decision to believe or not to believe each one of us will still answer to God even if you are anyone believes or not . I know that it doesn’t matter to some but when they stand before God they will not have a excuse.

        1. Gary says:

          I am glad that we can talk about beliefs and disbelief’s and be respectful to other

        2. Dark Gray says:

          Gary,

          Respectfully, I disagree. Would a loving God say to His creations, “I give you a choice: Accept this book that’s obviously imperfect and full of contradictions as the Gospel Truth and follow its teachings to the letter or spend eternity in pain and torment.”

          Does that kind of choice even make sense? Why would hell even be an option?

          Would you give your kids that choice, assuming you had the power? I assume you wouldn’t. And if you wouldn’t do that to your kid, how could you believe that God would do that to us, His beloved creations?

    7. Anita Rogers says:

      I hear you but the problem is the revocation of civil rights. There is still the trend to push to end gay marriage and to not extend protections in work environments for this group of people.

      They use the words in the Bible but not the context. Context for anti–gay is not the sex but the inability to bear children. In the day you had high death rates and to keep you culture/faith alive you needed kids.
      This is not an issue any longer.

      They are using twisted scripture to give the stamp of approval to hate gays. By allowing them to marry we have moved them one attempt closer to removing soon in their lives.

      Have a good day sir

  2. Rev. Theo. Klebes says:

    Open your Bible for your spell check. I which you’re there please read about the love that God and Jesus have For All Mankind. We are all created by God In His Image you’re telling me that God Makes Mistakes by creating lgbtq people, well you are wrong. Please continue to educate yourself and I will continue to pray for you. Peace and love to all.

    1. Rev. Theo. Klebes says:

      First line second paragraph should say …,….. And while you are there………

    2. Alan Meunier says:

      He (“God”) admitted to errors SEVERAL times in the bible, however, LGBT people, “errors” or not, are still HUMAN and should be treated as such.

      1. bob says:

        Yes, these LGBT?! people should be treated as humans, but their sinful, despicable, unnatural BEHAVIOR is unacceptable to sensibility and to a righteous, holy God.!

    3. Dave Steventon says:

      But using that rational, it’s ok to be a theif or a murder.

      1. Rev J says:

        Only if you deny God and accept satan does that work. No gray are in their for God. Both at mortal sins. LGBT folks were not born that way by God. God only created male and female. He did not create other, God also stated marriage is between a man and a woman not Adam and Steve or Delia and Donna.

      2. Rick says:

        Theft and murder both have obvious unwilling victims who have been forced into circumstances that bring direct harm. It’s not at all the same as two consenting adults of the same gender who love each other and want to be together.

        Shame on you for trying to make such an outrageously unequal comparison.

        1. Gary says:

          My sister is lesbian and I love her very much and she knows that I do and she knows that I believe it’s a sinful relationship but I’m not her judge I’m only someone that loves his sister and sin is sin no matter what form lust ,lieing ,stealing,ect….

          1. Dark Gray says:

            “I believe it’s a sinful relationship but I’m not her judge I’m only someone that loves his sister”

            You know, I think that’s one of the most heart-warming things I’ve read in this entire discussion

  3. Larry Copeland says:

    Obey GODS LAW or SATANS? The choice is your responsibility. Your choice is Heavin or Hell!! We do not have the right to change Gods rules for getting into Heavin or Hell🤔

    1. Dave Steventon says:

      Agreed! Keep the faith my friend!

  4. Baghdad 724 says:

    I donot support the lbgt and saying i was born this was dont tell god that and god made a mistake . I dont have to accepted it just hate the sin and the lbgt i guess they cross out about when a man lay down with anothet man that not a church its a church of sin

  5. Carrie says:

    It seems to me that a whole group of “Christians” here are not that at all. They are evangelical whores. Instead of quoting from the new testament, which, by the way, was written about Christ, they selectively pick stupid quotes from the Talmud, the old testament, which has nothing to do with Jesus! If you worship God through Christ how can you be so blind and ignorant? Christ taught nonjudgmental love of your fellow, not the hate you preach. If your “God” teaches you to hate, you are worshiping the WRONG God! LGBTQ are people too! As such, they deserve the same love and respect as anyone else. “Judge ye not lest ye be judged.” “Let he, who is without sin, cast the first stone.” No one here is so pure that they have the right to judge what is right or wrong for another. In my reed it is “Do as ye will, and harm none.” Love is love….get over yourself!

    1. James says:

      You made a circle back to your point. The old test leads to Jesus. I. E. The history of the plan, the new test is the Christ blood Covenant. Yet, he tells us about sin and how it kills the soul, tells us about sexual immorality. Judgement was not about being your brothers keeper, but condemning people to death or hell. “the mob thing” not pointing out that an action or practice is completely gross, hygienicly horrible, genetically impossible, and socially acceptable. It’s against God foundational orders. So that’s you argument? Everything is good and no judgement? So we are evolutionary animals and nothing matters. I see you. Nice try. Hehe

      1. Carrie says:

        You speak illogical logic. Talk about circles! I state that the mythos of the bible is stunning bad. If you wish to believe in such blather and live your tiny little time of ignorance and hate, less power to you. You prefer to judge others rather than surround yourself with life and love…what a pity. Other than that, there is nothing to say. I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person. The seeds you sow, you will reap threefold…good luck.

  6. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW, LCSW says:

    It is most interesting that some ULC ministers do not accept the work and focus of the monastery. The Universal Life Church Monastery has posted on its website that it continues “to provide a voice to and fight for the rights of those whose freedoms are being violated around the world.” “We continue our battle to ensure that residents of all 50 states are permitted to become ministers under often antiquated and biased legal systems. Additionally, the war rages on to ensure that any individual, regardless of his or her gender, should be permitted to marry any individual of his or her choosing.” To say one hates the LGBT community is in direct conflict with the work of our organization and in fact violates our agreement with the ULC. If you “hate” you are in big trouble spiritually. Why does anyone care if members of the LGBT community want to marry??? It is about LOVE and is no skin off your nose and does not affect you at all!

    1. Gary Hynous says:

      Scientist now believe that sexual predispositions may be genetic. The male gay gene is thought to be inherited from the mother and the lesbian gene from the father. Check it out on the internet.

    2. John A Anderson, CD says:

      EXCELLENT way of expressing this, Catherine.

      1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW, LCSW says:

        Thank you John.

        1. Carl Elfstrom says:

          And also Catherine, you’re doing a much better job than I could do so I’m trying to read more and write less. I too often get angry and frustrated about ignorant and prejudiced comments, and totally lose my cool. Enough’s enough. I’m staying out of it. It’s just back and forth bickering on this blog that never ends.

    3. Carrie says:

      Your point is well thought out. Love is love and hate merely a denial of love. It is said that those that step forward with the most hate, usually have the most to hide. Does it mean they might be fearful they they ARE themselves? Psychologists seem to agree on that point. Of course, as stated below, you can learn any lie, and accept it as truth, if you read it on the internet! Best wishes, keep up your good works. Blessed Be.

      1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW, LCSW says:

        Rev Carrie, many positive, living blessings to you as well..

        1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW, LCSW says:

          Typo, loving blessings to you.

    4. Stephen Foster says:

      Catherine –

      Bravo for you! The “religious right” fails to observe the text “judge not for you too will be judged”.

      Thank you for your emboldened message!

    5. Carl Elfstrom says:

      It is also interesting to note that the ULC allows posts about things they do not approve of.

  7. John Owens says:

    Joseph’s favorite subject again.

  8. bob says:

    Greipp: “If you ‘hate’ you are in big trouble spiritually.” Come on, let’s cut the nonsense and get a greipp on the TRUTH!

    According to the Scriptures, we are to pattern our lives after God. Numerous Scriptures encourage us to be Christlike, godly.

    Well, our Heavenly Father ‘hates’! (Proverbs 16:19 -7 things; Genesis 19:1-11 & Leviticus 18:22 – homosexuality; Malachi 2:16 – divorce; . . . . . . the list goes on.

    It’s the PRACTICE of the sins that God deems a hateful abomination, wretched, and defiling. But He completely loves the sinners, the ones caught up in life-destroying attitudes and behavior.

    It is NOT wrong to hate, so long as it’s directed toward the ‘wrongdoing’ and not the ‘wrongdoer’.

    1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW, LCSW says:

      Wow, you are incredibly disrespectful…sad man bob….Do you remember, “Love Thy neighbor As Thyself”?????? Hate is a destroyer. I do not believe in your angry, spiteful, vengeful god anyway. I believe in a loving, positive force. You need to get a grip honey.

      1. Allen Alexander says:

        We don’t use the ‘H’ word in my home. I have taught my children to say they “do not like”, the ‘H’ word has too many negative connotations. My God doesn’t hate.

        1. bob says:

          I don’t know who your god is. Who is he, she, or it? The loving, righteous God of the Bible does hate.

          1. Stephanie Willey says:

            The God of unconditional love and infinite grace has no room for hate. This is the God I know.

    2. Dark Gray says:

      I find that whenever something brings up that old chestnut (“Love the sinner but hate the sin.”) that they tend to focus more on the hating part than on the loving part. It’s really just an excuse to indulge in hatred while just giving lip service to love. Because, you know, Christians are supposed to be loving.

      How’s about proving me wrong, bob? Try focusing more on the ‘love’ aspect of your statement. Put more of your energy into loving the sinner and less into hating the sin.

      1. bob says:

        Un-whte; Your first paragraph is largely a generalization, an assumption and subjective in the extreme.

        I don’t have to prove you wrong. God’s Word proves you wrong.

        Christians who follow Christ’s teachings do love the sinner. But, God the Father ‘hated’ sin so much that it cost His son, Jesus, His life!

        1. Dark Gray says:

          “Your first paragraph is largely a generalization, an assumption and subjective in the extreme.”

          No, my first paragraph is not “largely” a generalization. It is completely a generalization. The words “I find that” should have clued you in on the fact. I have made a generalization based on years of experience, and I stand by it. You can argue the point if you like, but based on my experience, whenever someone talks about loving the sinner and hating the sin, their attitude tends to be “yeah-I-love-the-sinner, whatever, but I REALLY WANT TO TALK ABOUT HATING THE SIN!!”

          ” But, God the Father ‘hated’ sin so much that it cost His son, Jesus, His life!”

          Er, except that it didn’t, did it? Not in any meaningful sense, anyway. Jesus was resurrected — you’ve heard that, right? — and is still alive to this day, sitting at the right hand of the Father, and will come again, yadda, yadda, yadda. He was never in any danger of staying dead. The resurrection was planned from the beginning. How does that constitute “costing his life”?

          Sure, Jesus willingly suffered unspeakable agony for hours and hours to make a point — and I give him all kinds of props and respect for that — but the “ultimate sacrifice” that lots of Christians like to feel guilty about didn’t exactly happen. In fact, that was the whole point of the resurrection — that that type of sacrifice is not only unnecessary, but impossible.

          Besides which, any theology which states that an omnipotent being somehow cannot rid the universe of something He “hates”, somehow could not prevent His perfect creations from descending into evil, and somehow was forced to slaughter His Son to satiate His own bloody desire for sacrifice . . . well, that theology has some serious logical flaws.

          Let me say that again: Mainstream Christian theology has always been seriously flawed and badly needs to be reformed.

          1. Carrie says:

            100% The whole Myth of the bible is weird! If it was written today it would be considered X-rated. It is filled with rape, murder and filth! What vivid imaginations they must have had….of course it was rewritten several hundred times, added to, subtracted from, edited, badly translated…so of course it MUST be true!

  9. Lea Weis says:

    The winner wrote the bible and a way to control the people…people that needed answers and superstions set in. Sad…but some need answers for their loss..miss fortunes..and someone to blame. ..
    The word god is nothing more than Good ..Orderly..Direction. And we as humans must fine reason and compassion in our lives..Towards ourselves and others.
    This God and Satan is nothing more than a way for people to make judgments of others..As in looking at a man of god as always a good person and of course a person of not of your belief as Satan…The good and bad…With this mind set to view people that don’t live..think…and view the world your way is and act of Satan….Its just a means to hate.
    Marriage to me is a contract union of 2 people that is family…I don’t care if they are the opposite sex or the same..its a family.

    1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW, LCSW says:

      Aho, Lea! Great comments. Thank you.

    2. bob says:

      You may believe about marriage to your own peril. But God has ordained, from Genesis through the New Testament, that marriage is between one male and one female.

      1. John A Anderson, CD says:

        Bob, if that is the case, then what of marriage before Judaism? It’s now commonly accepted that Judaic thought goes back much further than 4 Oct 4004 BCE (the supposed date of creation). By the way, the Catholic Church did not have anything to do with marriage until after a ruler donated land to the local church as payment for performing his marriage ceremony in the 11th century CE. Then they realized that it was possible for them to make money off of performing marriages, and decreed that ALL marriages has to be performed by a parish priest to be valid. The poor, who did not have the money to pay for the marriage (and had no property to make it worthwhile) continued to follow the old rules for marriage, or, if they were lucky enough to find one, had a mendicant perform the ceremony for them, as the vows of poverty the mendicant took, combined with the fact that they were not a parish priest, made it less financially burdensome.

        1. Lea Weis says:

          Bob..believe what benefits you. But let me tell you I was disowned for marrying out of my culture and religion…I went on with my life and removed myself and my family from that type of ugly nature. I’m not a Christian anymore..I beleive that god has no religion if you choose to believe in the invisible man…My parents never saw their beautiful grand daughter…In I’m glad…My brothers son is in jail and my sister died before 50…And for myself..I have been happily married for 40 years..Namaste

      2. Dark Gray says:

        ” But God has ordained, from Genesis through the New Testament, that marriage is between one male and one female.”

        No. Just no. David had at least eight wives. Solomon had seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines. If you’re going to argue the Old Testament, bob, please at least get your facts straight!

    3. Carl Elfstrom says:

      Isn’t it best to achieve and maintain balance in every aspect of life ? Doesn’t that include good and evil ?

  10. Alan Meunier says:

    Survival of those who can ADAPT. If a church can no longer adapt to modern changing times then it will soon cease to exist.

    1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW, LCSW says:

      Agree Alan, and it would be a very positive change if all the misogynistic, paternalistic churches did cease to exist and more churches which were all inclusive and focused on LOVE, and humanitarian values flourished..

  11. Tigerz says:

    We’ve all read, ‘if a man shall lay with another he shall surely die’. We’re told not to judge but are told to ‘send them to Me’ (God). ‘And it will cease happening among us’. There’s no other way to interpret that. There’s only one way to send them to God. Harsh by our pity party standards, but not by Gods.

    1. Lea Weis says:

      Its a shame that people still follow these words that have been the cause of all wars in the name of god…The bible is just a book of history..not gods word..just mans idea…There are other books.

      1. John Owens says:

        So you are saying, the U.S. entered WW2 on religious grounds. I’ll have to ruminate on that one…hmm… Nope. Can’t see it. I’m glad you said the Bible is a book of history, though. It tells what happens to nations when they do not have a just judicial system and a moral code.

        1. Lea Weis says:

          Hating Jews..genocide?..put your thinking cap on…

          1. John Owens says:

            The Jews were not the reason for the WAR. The genocide against them was actually only incidental. We entered the WAR because the Germans were sinking ships, and later the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. The Japanese also did not attack for religious grounds, although serving the Emperor was considered a sacred duty. It was economics.

      2. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW, LCSW says:

        Yes Lea, the bible is a collection of stories supposedly written over a 1500 year period written by men for men and filled with so much violence, killing, etc. All we have to do is look at what has happened over time to see religious war after religious war around Europe and Asia.

        1. Lea Weis says:

          Yes Chtherine I agree with you. But religion hit America..the new land. That judgement also commented a genocide on the Indians..

          1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW, LCSW says:

            Yes Lea, you are preaching to the choir. My ancestors survived the atrocities committed against them by christian invaders. They actually believed they had a “god given right” to steal, kill, and enslave First Americans. Their attempts to kill us all off with everything from mass murders, to smallpox infected blankets, relocation and forcing our people onto reservations which were nothing more than concentration camps, failed. We are still here!

    2. Carl Elfstrom says:

      God didn’t write the Bible, men did. People have thought God inspired them to commit much evil in this world. How many of them were playing with a full deck ? The only people I’ve known personally who ever claimed to have received prophesies from God were diagnosed schizophrenics.

      1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp MSW, LCSW says:

        Sort of like folks today who say they see Jesus in a potato chip.

        1. Carl Elfstrom says:

          A potato chip ? What kind, Lays or Ruffles ? Wouldn’t it be easier with a crystal ball ?

    3. Carl Elfstrom says:

      You better send yourself to god first to make sure that’s what is meant.

  12. James says:

    In the end , if we are speaking from a Christian stand point, it doesn’t matter what we accept or think. Homosexuality is a unnatural process by definition No babies can be made through the act. Just like a drug, sex is a desire used by the devil to change the course of mankind. Blessing can come from above and below. So why not desire? I judge my actions as I was taught.. Who does this benefit, how does it benefit, how long will it benefit … If it’s me, me, short time. It’s usually bad. If it’s my family,, greatly, and generational. Then it’s most likely good. Be careful of the guideline we apply to a religion that wasn’t supposed to be a religion but a path to faith in God. Just my thought.

  13. John Owens says:

    Just shows that churches follow fads, rather than scripture, and modern people have no stomach for being called the bad guys. This current trend will last a while, then it will change, maybe swing back the other way, maybe march right on into something else. Nothing new.

  14. Amber L Fry says:

    Honestly, yes I think it eventually will. How soon would be the question. Religions that do not change with the needs of the people, with the understanding and support of and for the people end up dissolving and fading away. If Christianity is to survive, another biblical revision is going to be needed.

  15. Timothy McCoy says:

    There is only One Judge and Lawgiver and the Bible has always been the Cornerstone of Christianity. Any one who takes God’s Word seriously,knows what it has to say on these matters. Disagreeing with someone on the LGBT issues here doesn’t necessarily mean we don’t love them ,or that one is “homophobic”, or that it’s intolerant. It may,however,be a signal that certain church congregations are simply going by the direction of the Scriptures clear teachings. This,as the headline assumes, isn’t “turning their noses up” either. We must consider what the Bible warns of the prophetic Last Days as well. Based solely upon what it says and not human opinions or what’s politically “correct”. 2Timothy 3:1-7.,2 Thes.2:7-12.,2Peter 3:3-10.1Timothy4:1. If we read this Word from a heart of sincere Faith and not a headstrong “religious do and don’t” but with compassion towards all should gently convey it’s message. If one refuses to hear it or take it seriously we shouldn’t judge them but love them and leave the Judgment to God Almighty. He will,I’m sure execute His Will regardless of what direction the institutional churches take on this issue.

  16. Bill Fox says:

    If the “Christian” sect is scripture based, “gay” marriage is not possible. However, if the Christian sect is “doctrinally” based, then it is simply a matter of changing the doctrine to accept gay marriage.

    1. Carrie says:

      Most of them have. They even have Women ministers and pastors in the more advanced. Love is love…love and devotion to one another should be our creed, not some “scripture”

    2. Carl Elfstrom says:

      They can always say God did it, and call it the word of God.

  17. Part Wm. Dowell says:

    I saw a lot of good points but here’s one that’s hard to argue with. If everyone in this world suddenly got into a gay marriage then humankind would die in 100 years or less because there would be no procreation! God says man with man and woman and woman is wrong and nature which God created says the same thing. End of argument!

    1. Timothy Wade says:

      What??? Have you ever heard of false analogy? It ain’t gonna happen. I shouldn’t even reply to such hypothetical nonsense but this kind of statement hurts my brain. What if everyone in the world suddenly became reasonable? That won’t happen either. End of what argument? First you have to have an argument. Of course, you may have something there and my poor feeble brain just cant wrap itself around such high logic. What?!!!

    2. Carl Elfstrom says:

      Who’s arguing? We’re just stating known facts in spite of your make believe, biblical fairytales.

  18. John Gile says:

    Mormons have a prophet who speaks with God, just like Moses. Why is it expected that social acceptance of homosexuality would change what God is telling the prophet to teach the people? The question is: if the Mormons have a true prophet who really speaks with God and God says that heterosexual relationship is the goal to live up to (just as Moses advocated), who are the people dissenting with? What about people who have a ‘natural’ tendency to kill, abuse, burn or steal? Where do you draw the line?

  19. Tom says:

    It is interesting how this article does not mention Islam’s take on gay marriage. Are we perhaps scared to offend the most sensitive religion in the world?

  20. Rev. Dr. Kelly says:

    I’m not a Christian, but was raised in a strong Christian community. One of my biggest peeves is this idiocy of calling anyone who disagrees with a homosexual lifestyle “homophobic”. I don’t understand the sexual desire for a person of the same sex, but I don’t care if two people of ANY persuasion love each other. But, any time I simply state that I don’t understand, I’m immediately branded “homophobic”. Fear has nothing to do with it. I am hopelessly(?) straight in my own life, and truly just don’t see the attraction. I also don’t see the need to parade my sexuality in front of the world. When others do, however, they should be prepared for criticism. Any issue has multiple viewpoints, and there are very few universal agreements. But, this crap about name calling needs to stop on all sides. “homophobic” has to be one of the more stupid insults ever created, and should be beneath The Universal Life Church to use.

  21. RVW says:

    After reading comments like many of the above, I’m left speechless. I wish some who comment were left the same way.
    RVW

  22. Ben says:

    God creates Gays and Lesbians. Get over it. It is as natural as being an albino. Appreciate them with the same aw you appreciate an Albino. They are Gods beutiful creations. Feel blessed for knowing them and experiencing their presence

    1. Carl Elfstrom says:

      And don’t forget, Gay Pride is next month. Be there or be square, despite nay sayers, for we are the champions of the world !

      1. John Owens says:

        Freddie Mercury would be so proud!

      2. John Owens says:

        Oh! By the way, do you think if Freddie Mercury had been a heterosexual, would he have still died from AIDS?

        1. Dark Gray says:

          Maybe, but probably not. My question is, would he have been as terrific a showman/performer/musician? I’m thinking probably not.

          1. John Owens says:

            He was THAT! Elton John (Reggie Dwight) too. Mercury was arguably one of the best singers that ever lived.

          2. Nat Lomax says:

            The Bible is a book of life, it changes as you walk through the Bible’s time lines and from the Old Testimate through the New. The entries demonstrate man’s best and worst, Given the times and situations, we also see that God and Christ are both interactive and responsive – I see it as unconditional love in practice.

            I also believe that Christ intended for us to continue our journey through life through the Holy Spirit. He understood that there would be challenges and debates like the ones we are having here. He understood that life would go on and that we would need the HolySpirit to help guide us.

            Christ understood that life is messy, it is not one thing or the other. He preache love and forgiveness as tools to get through tough times. He did not wrap life up into a package as if it were a done deal, sealed in a book.

            Although the Bible is a Great book, it is not the end all. If we are truly going to call ourselves Christians, then we should follow the teachings of Christ, he desperately tried to move man forward, not backward. He asked that we meet new challenges and situations with the mindset of love discernment of the human condition with all its many facets.

            When I hear a series of Bible quotes to prove a point, I hear an effort to tie our human experience into a tight little package as if there is a fear to move forward.

            If we don’t dialogue using the tools Christ gave us, we are doomed to loose the salvation He wants for us.

  23. David Lay says:

    I’m very sorry, but I will never accept that lifestyle, nor will I ever accept that God made a mistake and made a man a woman or a woman a man. No one is born gay, they become gay by their lifestyle and choices. I have a grandson that I love very much, but I will not accept his lifestyle. It’s wrong in both covenants, therefore it is wrong in it’s entirety. God didn’t make two men and tell them go make babies, he told a man and woman.

  24. Ben says:

    The message people are sending here is that because humans have a more tolerant approach to discrimination, we are better than God. We protect human rights and God does not. We advocate for Gays and Lesbians and God does not. Now if this reality does not help you pull your head out of where the sun don’t shine then you deserve the tench therein. AMEN!

  25. Ben says:

    You can keep the stench of the bigot all you want. Those that discriminate against Gays and Lesbians are a minority and a dying breed anyways. SO keep it up, you will only breed among yourselves, because non-bigots do not mate with non bigots unless by accident. Meaning you will die off sooner than later.

  26. Gary ZOLDOWSKI says:

    Interesting. Apparently ULC censors these comments. I posted a reply earlier that approaches the subject from a Spiritual not Christian view and it disappeared. Is this what this organization practices?

    1. Ben says:

      David Lay. It is a proven scientific fact that women see shades of colors differently, something to do with hormones. The funny thing about this fact is that gay men tend to see colors differently too . . . . Hmmm. Maybe they have pretended to be women so much that gay men have restructured their DNA? or where they simply born with more female hormones?

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