A new Pew report confirms what many churchgoers already know: church attendance is on the decline.
The report, released earlier this summer, shows that only 30% of Americans had attended a religious service – church, mosque, synagogue, or temple – in the past seven days. Those numbers were down from 34% pre-COVID, and about 10% down from 40%, which had been the standard from about 1970 through 2012.
In 2021, for the first time in American history, fewer than half of Americans – 47% – were members of a church, mosque, or synagogue.
The fact is that young Americans are simply less religious than the generations before. A 2022 survey reported that 29% of Millennials and 34% of Gen-Z identify as religiously unaffiliated. Compare that to a scant 18% of Baby Boomers identifying as the same, and it’s clear that faith is simply less important in the lives of young people compared to generations past.
Indeed, it’s America’s fastest growing faith: None.
So what happened? Why are young people in America dropping church like a bad habit?
Losing Their Religion
A viral Twitter thread may have some answers as to why younger generations are saying no thank you to going to church. In a thread with 20 million views, and thousands of comments, one user asked, “What made you stop going to church?”
The responses shed some light on what specifically is turning young people off of filling the pews on Sunday morning. And if you browse through the replies yourself, you’ll see a few common threads.
There are competing theories as to why younger generations are less religious than older ones, but these Twitter responses certainly provide some clues as to why younger people are turned off by organized religion.
Can Churches Bring Young People Back?
Many of the younger worshipers speaking out seem to have a perception of religious bodies as hypocritical, regressive, and boring.
Cultural flashpoints, such as evangelicals' opposition to the LGBTQ community or the Catholic Church’s ongoing clergy abuse scandals, aren’t helping young people view houses of worship as safe and loving spaces.
Unless things change, it seems likely this exodus from the pews will only continue – despite a billion dollar ad blitz from Christian marketers trying to bring them back.
What do you make of all this?
Are the grievances in that Twitter thread legitimate? How can churches win over younger members without compromising their foundational values and teachings?
Can Gen-Z and the world of faith find a common ground?
147 comments
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
People are no longer going to church. They are beginning to see through the bull ******, the hypocrisy, the lies, the sexual abuses, the hate. Add up all the numbers you want but in the US those numbers are dropping. As the old guard (literally) dies off, fewer of subsequent generations will take their place.
The best thing religion could have done to convince younger people not to partake was do exactly what they did; be hypocritical, judgement-ridden, holier-than-thou hate mongers. You can thank education and the internet and short of a x tian theocracy banning both, eventually religion and the religious will be ignored and pitied out of existence.
god doesn't exist, jesús doesn't exist, the bible, torah, quran and veda are nothing more than a collection of tribal myths, stories and a means to enslave people's minds. Just look at the comments here; like barking dogs the 'good' xtians are here defending their faith by quoting their sheep herder's guide to the universe.
Are they out trying to make the world a better place? House the homeless? Help heal the sick? Nope. But they do attend their silly, pretentious, stylized CosPlay church theater every week (or more) because goD loves theater. Don't get all pissy xtians, I include the jews, muslims, hindus et al too.. It's just that in the US it's the x tians that stir up all the trouble.
In the US the constitution, Article VI specifies that “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.” And yet, go watch and listen to the gop goobers, expected, EXPECTED to praise jebus in order to be taken seriously. And yet they elected as president the great goober who had neither desire nor experience with any religion. Just look at the way the xtians zig zag in and around the constitution as it suits their needs.
That is why the younger generations are saying 'no thanks' to dogmatic ignorance, intolerance, racist, sexist, homophobic and misogynistic dog whistles, shouts, laws and actions taken and proposed by 'religion'. Give the younger generations the credit they deserve; they actually want to live the way so-called xtians are supposed to live, based on the words of the mythical jebus
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Perry K. Heath
To Rev. Dr. Father JJ
WELL SAID
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Alejandro Medina de Wit
Agreed!
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
You can only string people along on promises for so long - apparently about 2000 years - before they get wise and start looking for truth rather than dogma.
People have been told for millennia that maturity is to be like a child. Clearly, if something doesn't grow, it dies. What kind of a God never wants it's creations to grow up? All things eventually come to an end - even horrific, lying, manipulative, evil things.
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William Patrick Talty III
That is certainly a perspective.
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Keith Lawrence Dimond
I think the thrust of your comments is right on. I am not eager to agree, however, with your utter dismissal of scriptures from here to there, or even one of them. I just think that people who think they know God because 'they read it' are exactly the problem.
"God says" is ... I know people to whom I listen if they say it, because I do sense that they have some kind of connection. There's a wave of energy that comes when someone has a depth of connection and speak it to their best understanding and intention. That doesn't mean that I believe that they even understand what God said to them. Some are more diligent than others to listen, watch, perceive fully and with all senses, not just 'intuition' or clairaudience, etc., but pulling it all in to comprehend. This is a lesson to myself as I've become more intuitive and worked to subject myself to Divine will and be of use to its various beings, energies and polarities.
So what I described above as my intent of purpose and service really has no church. It can't, in a way, though there is fellowship to be had, people who guide without narcissism and without attachment to outcomes can be amazing in bringing light for people to 'feed off of' to the level that they are suited. Even the narcissists sometimes can bring light.
As noted, it's hard to form an organization per se to accomplish such things. I really like the 'open playground' that ULC examples. I don't enjoy the 'contributors' who take a 'high holy pontificatory authoritarian' tone, which we see a lot of here, amazingly enough.
So, yes, the dislike of the pontiff-wannabes and narcissists and money-changers, along with the recognition, I think, by many in younger generations (and some of us who have stayed young as we 'age'), the recognition that fellowship is where you can find it--sometimes in a group of 'One'--and not often to be found among 'true believer clusters,' is why church attendance is down.
This is an enlightenment. Those of us who seek to contribute and make any kind of profession of it need to operate ... enlightenedly.
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Michael Holland
I was raised Baptist and as soon as I actually found out what they stood for and stopped going. Organized religion to me is nothing but a money grab. They are not here to help anyone beyond the church walls!
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Geoffrey C. Olive
With the introduction of the internet, it’s possible that people have become more aware that organized religion, that is “churches “ of all religions, are greedy money grabbing peddlers of unbelievable nonsense and in many places total power! Of course that doesn’t mean that some, many, or most of those people don’t believe in a non existent sky daddy, but that they have moved one step away of supporting greedy human organizations and individuals that have grabbed some of their hard earned incomes for centuries under false pretenses! You only have to look at the life styles and possessions (churches, private jets, expensive houses and cars, etc) of the pastors running USA mega churches to see the greed and corruption in the buybull belt! In addition, this is even more expansive in the power of the religious authorities in countries like Iran, Afghanistan, and Saudi Arabia! Having said that, I still think that beautiful ancient religious buildings are wonderful examples of human achievements except what they were built for. Better to think of them like castles, palaces, bridges, skyscrapers or other historical non religious structures!
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Billy Heckstall
God’s Children are Moving Away From the Kidnappers, That’s All!
The moment the teachings of a people’s way of life became what we called a religion, was the moment that way of life began to decline. The moment we made this way of life a pious attitude of indifference to others it began to decline. The moment we forgot to teach that dancing, singing, sharing, and developing a one on one relationship with God by an individual’s actions is the most important things and to share that light with others; religion began to decline. When we forgot to practice what we preached in all our affairs and started to make money and other material gains our objective; religion began to decline. When the ministers began to own private jets and home’s bigger than many of their congregation and out gross the income of many of their followers (Offering nothing in return but prayers), religion began to decline. Let’s be real, how many ministers would be ministers; if they had to live like Jesus, or his true disciples? Probably, NONE!!! Out of the census I’ve taken that response almost 100% on point. We have a list of so-called people of God that are committing as many crimes as the peoples they came to save. Yes, I understand young people’s view points today because at one time, I was one of them. The inner teacher Jesus spoke of showed and taught me there was and is the truth and a way. The truth is, young people aren’t moving away from church, but ministers and their fake ideas of church and of God has moved away from God’s people. Fake wannabes, making money by waving their hands and knocking people down; snake charmers and shak’n bake money schemers! Why even Jesus, wouldn’t recognize what they call church today. Much less wanted to enter anyone of them. I don’t blame the young for not attending church anymore. I blame all the false prophets, ministers and pastors that have betrayed the word of God! The Hebrews, like all faiths of the same kind, whether they came before or after were teaching a way of life, and how to develop a closer personal relationship with the planet and that of creation. (Not a religion) Thus, moving in ward to the Creator and life. Let’s be frank, what so-called religion in these times need, is a new pair of glasses! It begins with get off the pulpit and out of the church’s and into the streets; and practicing, not teaching; that way of life which Jesus left us, which was an example. “As I do unto you, do also to each other” “ by your love for one another, will they recognize you as one of my disciples…” Peace…
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Russell Selph
Billy, I agree with your sentiment, but differ about the time line. It was long before the era of private jets that organized christianity lost touch with the core tenets of its own faith. I'd say around 300 AD, give or take 100 years. I don't think the hypocrisy we see today is anything new. But the response to it is.
Perhaps it's simply that people feel they have an alternative now-- that atheism, spiritualism, and non-organized faith are alternatives that don't carry a death sentence anymore. Maybe there have always been just as many people leaving the church in their hearts, but they couldn't be public about it without dire consequences.
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ServantOfJudgement
I gave you a thumbs up half way through bro. You said it straight big bill.
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Keith Law
Jesus wouldn’t recognize churches because there were none when he was alive, which was during the temple period. He recognized temple. His followers after Jerusalem and the Jewish temple was destroyed met in synagogues because they were all Jewish until Paul started converting pagans.
It’s takes a selective reading of the Bible to suggest that Jesus was morally superior to many church leaders today:
A. He condemned those who refused to follow him to eternal fire (hell).
B. In Mathew he instructs his disciples not to go along the gentiles but only Jews (Israelites), and he state that he came to divide.
Just saying.
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Brien
So, your belief in your mythical being includes testimony that this mythical being MURDERED the entire planet. Genocide against all save for what would fit in a boat, blah, blah, blah. Now, I don't believe any of the nonsense from the great lie, but you do, which means you're ok with global genocide. I have noticed that whenever I bring this point up, all of you believers become silent, or you change the subject. If you support this belief, then you support murder on a global scale...you cannot cherry pick your belief. Believe in yourself as a good person, or believe in genocide. You can't have it both ways as your belief only allows one way. Peace ✌
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John Condron
Here's a crazy idea! Instead of reading the idle speculations of strangers on the internet, you could read actual scholarly research on the subject. For example, you could take a deep dive by reading "Beyond Doubt: The Secularization of Society (Secular Studies Book 7)," in which Sociology professors Isabella Kasselstrand, Phil Zuckerman, and Ryan Cragun examine the rise of secularization, drawing on rich empirical evidence and careful analysis to make their case.
We actually know a lot about this worldwide phenomenon, and don't need to rely on speculation.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Speculations on the internet? How many thousands of people have been raped by priests? How about he Christian who murdered a store owner for hanging a pride flag? How about the HATE unleashed on the LBGTQ community, attempting to make them non-people or worse the torturous conversion therapy? Hating Drag Queens but not pedophiles? The misogyny? It's all on the evening news.
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Rev Mark D
You're not special, all that has happened to millions and millions of jews, native peoples en masse all across the globe for thousands of years right up to today. Everybody gets their turn when religion is involved. Plenty of faithful people today who would think of you as some kind of witch, just for speaking up. With organized religion, sooner or later everybody gets their turn on the rack.
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John Robert Milner
People are too lazy to read anymore and the internet makes it easy to get answers (right & wrong)! The era of easy access has led to “believe anything on the net “. True faith is not easy to grasp and accept, so it’s getting too tough for the last couple of generations
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Ryn Ingalls
There is an additional point that gets left out even in much of the scholarly work. The other category is made up of more than atheists and agnostics. The category also iincludes religions with smaller numbers of people, therefore not having enough of a percentage to be counted on their own. Many of these smaller religions are growing when studied. This is because they grow, change and are less dogmatic. Many are less know in the United Stated but do exist here. Some have been here since the founding while others are new but all have been categorized as New Religious Movements
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David Richard Procter
Religion has become too political. Adherents have completely forgotten Mark 12:17.
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Tareq Asfour
well, I blame America for allowing to many people to become preachers
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Daniel Gray
You know YOU are included in that phrase...right Tareq?
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Rev Mark D
Well, Tariq, it's so good for business. You get to run a fully operating for-profit business, with no taxes of any kind. Immensely profitable, immensely. No legal controls in any kind, immediate respect, free parking "clergy" stickers... Capitalism at its finest. Some of the biggest corporations and empires in the world are denomations and churches. In fact that's the whole point of them isn't it?
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John Condron
Yes. Because the rest of the world is sooooo picky about who they allow to become preachers! (For those too dumb to recognize it, this is sarcasm).
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Yeah - they let you become one.
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Daniel Gray
well they let you become one so your point is taken
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
I was breathing. :)
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Daniel Gray
and in your case that does not mean your brain was working
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Your comment makes me sad DG.
Does that make you feel better?
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Daniel Gray
I dont care about your emotions, and if you want people to stop using your way of posting then stop calling them names and stop using fake and biased sources to try and prove them wrong. If your argument cannot stand on its own, then its not worth much now is it, sort of like your opinion
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Brien
Comment has been removed.
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Daniel Gray
Comment has been removed.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Thank you for stressing to me how little you care about my emotions. It appears that did in fact motivate you to speak more.
What is my way of posting? Perhaps you could point to some examples and we could discuss them like adults - at least until you add your signature denigration to your 'strong' arguments.
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Daniel Gray
so you are going to continue to whine when you are proved wrong?
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Reality is a story we tell ourselves.
Free your mind, and the rest will follow.
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Pastor Jody S.
Lack of authenticity on the part of the congregations. Every weekend I attend Mass at a Catholic monastery. The monks "walk the walk and talk the talk", but the Lay people that assist in Communion look as if they want to rip your head off, and never smile. Jesus told us to Love each other as I have Loved you", but these folks must have skipped that class.
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Lionheart
If they skipped that class of that piece of indoctrination, perhaps they went to the classes that talked about incest, stoning people to death, the one on condoning slavery, the bit about infanticide, and the one where a god drowned everyone on earth with the exception of a drunkard and his incestuous family. Those classes would have put the last nail in the coffin for those with the ability to think with logic, reason, and critical thought. 🤷🏼
🦁❤️
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Rev Mark D
"...Those classes would have put the last nail in the coffin for those with the ability to think with logic, reason, and critical thought."
Optimist. How you can consider such a small group, minuscule fraction in the first place...
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ServantOfJudgement
Let's be fair to Noah Lionheart. I'd think after a 120 year long project that ended with the obliteration of nearly an entire race of murderous, thieving, adulterous, lying, backstabbing, morally bankrupt filthy dogs that walked on two legs would end at least with a few bottles of a nice red wine. Speaking for my self there, don't want to put words in Noah's mouth but I bet I'm close. If only those filthy animals would have heeded the warnings. Ya know, like our super nice, straight laced, polite and happy civilization heeds warnings. Maybe I should get some wine handy.....
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Lionheart
Are you also referring to the infants, toddlers, children, young adults, pregnant mothers, elderly women, and the infirm, that would also have died in that deistic genocide?
I’m sure though, if the story was really true, which we know didn’t happen, Noah must have been thinking: He dodged a bullet there. In his case, a few storms, and bolts of lightning. I too, would have celebrated with a nice glass of wine, which possibly would’ve originally being a glass of water, turned into a nice 15.8% ABV red wine by his God. I’m not sure what to say about his sex starved virtuous daughters though taking advantage of their drunk dad 🤭.
I have often wondered, when Jesus turned water into wine, whether it was a nice bold fruity Cabernet, or Merlot?🤔
Personally, I always drink sensibly, I never spill a drop 😜
🦁❤️
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ServantOfJudgement
Lionheart It was Lot's daughters that did the dad rape. Raised in Sodom, they were sodomites proper. I believe God later obliterated all of Lot's descendants for their evil, no doubt carried on from the good ole days back at Sodom. God did spare them and gave a second, third, fourth and fifth chance, which they blew. They turned out just like the pre-flood innocent babies would have turned out. It's a safe bet to assume children learn from observation. When Mommy and daddy are real pieces of work, little Johnny and Suzie will wind up dandies themselves. I think that's why politicians and elites push for abortion, they don't want the degenerates populating the planet. Sort of a post flood cleansing of undesirables. Nicer, less noticable, can elevate one's social status and it's legal.
For some reason I always picture the wine Jesus transfigured was a white wine. I'm not sure if they had white grapes in Israel then. Imagine your surprise as you brought a glass of water up to drink and it was perfect white wine, which you were thirsty for. What a nice treat.
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Brien
And there you are again. So not only do you believe in global genocide, but you fully support it. You have displayed a fine example of why people no longer support organized religion. Nazi much?
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Tareq Asfour
Catholics became a joke sadly
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Geoffrey C. Olive
Tareq, catolicks have ALWAYS been a joke!
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Warren Calvin Wall
Those jokes also hold the largest treasury of riches anyone could possibly imagine. They assassinated the Templars because they became competitive concerning faith and riches. They supported Hitler because he was actively eliminating the Jews. Organized religions are simply another form of corrupted governance.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Yup the church is full of hate and hypocrisy. It's become undeniable and people have had enough. I applaud these young people for following their hearts and leaving.
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Keith Law
So many views on the subject and none suggested that people may be turning off to official religions because the major ones are predicated on the Bronze Age myth of a magic invisible dad who lives in the sky.
The dominant American religion goes one step further and has that invisible dad in the sky impregnate a young Jewish woman (without her consent and just before her wedding to someone else) and their baby is then fated to be brutally sacrificed for the original sin of the first ever mom and dad, who ate forbidden fruit 6000 years ago, even though modern humans evolved over 200,000 years ago.
I mean, isn’t that why people are turning away from religion? I hoped so.
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Robert S Collins
My last sermon as a pastor was titled “Going To Church On Sunday Doesn’t Make You Any More Of A Christian Than Sleeping In Your Garage Makes You A Car.” I couldn’t stand the hypocrisy. I resigned the next day.
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Catherine
Hypothetical posits:
Perhaps the internets made it possible for people around the world to recognize much of the world's ills are due to abuses of its peoples through use of religions to control politics that maintain an unhealthy status quo.
We've run out of room for all that to work. Few resources remain that can be stolen and given away as bribes. "Come settle this land and in return..."
Cultures obliterated.
People living on top of each other and nearly all means of being self-sufficient being systematically removed.
Perhaps also, more people understand humans are indepedent by nature. We do not - any one of us - fit into the box(es) of the individual standing next to us.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
My observation is that the internet has allowed humanity, for the first time in history, to meet itself.
'Awkward' is a vast understatement.
But the truth to realize is that we have always been this way - we've simply been insulated by our expansiveness. That is what the internet has transcended.
People like to be independent - but it is just as true that we are social creatures. Nobody wants to depend on anybody else - but solitary confinement (isolation) is used as punishment and even torture.
But to the topic - there is more to people than the standard definitions of religions allow for. Much more. So your initial point is absolutely true.
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Rev Mark D
No you could see all that from radio and TV and I'm especially tv, for the last 60-70 years. It has to be something else.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
But radio and TV didn't let you react - didn't allow discussion like the internet does.
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
For me, back in 1975, it was the hypocrisy amongst Church leadership and the Cafeteria Christians I saw, as well as reading history and seeing just how much slaughter the followers of the "Prince of Peace" committed..
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Paul Andrew Breda
The Church (capital C) is dying, and I say (as a practicing, church-going Christian of 60 years) the sooner, the better. Maybe that's overly harsh. But the church has lost it's way, been hi-jacked by politics and those who would use it for selfish purposes. Sadly, many of the worst-offenders (the ones that get the headlines and give churches a bad name) will survive, drawing attention away from the ones that active seek to be true followers and bring the kingdom of God to fruition on earth. So let's let the process separate the wheat from the chaff, find the churches that seek to be true followers and give them our support.
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Rev. Rory
I am a fan of understanding all major religions in order to understand and respect ourselves and others. Every major religion has a history of great beauty and great cruelty in the name of God. Reject the cruelty. Move on. Evolve. If staying away from church is the choice of Gen Z, then that is their choice. It does not mean that Gen Z does not have beliefs, it means that they have tired of the negatives and hypocrisy of the leaders of their religious organization. Maybe they are disgusted with religion as a tool of politicians. If you believe in a higher power, then you would also believe that you are judged by that higher power, not by another human.
Some good people are religious but religion does not make you "good."
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Lisa Ellis
I’d ask why should people go back to Christianity. It’s not just the Catholic Church that’s having ongoing sexual abuse issues. They’re rampant in all of Christianity. It’s not just the evangelicals who are anti-LGBTQ+. Are there any branches of Christianity that accept queerness instead of classifying it as a sin? The new revision of the Bible is decided anti-LGBTQ+ now in ways it didn’t used to be. Christians are more openly hateful, misogynistic and bigoted now than in my previous experience. Maybe that’s just my younger naïveté. Either way, why would anyone continue to prop up this hateful, harmful institution that’s actively disrespecting and hurting people? And not just a few people, it significantly hurts huge groups of people on the outside and the inside. I’d ask why the conversation is about getting around the reasons people have for fleeing this institution and not about what these comments are shining a light on within this institution. Why is it being protected and not examined? Don’t just try to dress it up to appeal to more people and trick them into coming through the doors. Change the foundational issues. Stop looking at the people who reject what the Christian churches are as flawed and start looking at the flaws within the churches.
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Daniel Gray
yet again another lying fluff myth. It shows that people like Pew and those who believe them are very short of intelligence and common sense. Christianity is still the largest Religion in the world and has far more then 600 million more then the next closest religion, and that is Islam.
Religion Followers (billions) Cultural tradition Christianity 2.4 Abrahamic religions Islam 1.9 Abrahamic religions Hinduism 1.2 Indian religions Buddhism 0.5 Indian religions
So when you have some low intelligence people claiming that Abrahamic religions need to go, I guess it does not cross their minds that you have 4.3 BILLION people who follow these Abrahamic religions meaning that its going to be well into the hundreds of thousands of years before they would vanish. And thats only IF everyone in the religion decided to stop following it. And whats is another major shock is the realization is just because they may not go to an established church, does not mean they stopped believing.
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Brien
Where do you get your numbers from? If the numbers are as you say, why are they always crying poverty and begging for money? Doesn't your god provide for the needs of his children? It is amazing that you zealots always come up with some excuse for the failings of your myth. What about the whole world genocide thing? You remember, when your god destroyed the world, killing everyone on it save for Noah and family? That is called GLOBAL GENOCIDE. Can you explain that away? It is in your belief, so you must support it...right?
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Daniel Gray
Wow, so you are admitting Brian that you cant or wont use a search Engine?
https://wbgu.pbslearningmedia.org/resource/sj14-soc-religmap/world-religions-map/
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/largest-religions-in-the-world.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2012/12/18/our-christian-earth-the-astounding-reach-of-the-worlds-largest-religion-in-charts-and-maps/
https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/religions/
And this is just a small part of the 78,000,000 results from just a simple google seach, you know the same one you just admitted to not being able to use?
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Brien
And yet again, DG, you side step the question like a good zealot does. I don't care about your searches, flyers, posters, or whatever else you got. I only care to YOUR response to the question, "Do you support global genocide as written and testified to by your belief"? Don't use anything but your own brain to answer. I have argued this point for almost 60 years now, and no zealot has answered it. Why don't you be the first?
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Daniel Gray
You asked where I received the numbers from and I showed you. SO exactly how is this sidestepping this fake issue of yours? it cant be sidestepping or fake if you were given the numbers to back me up with links now can it Brian? Or are you just upset that you were proved wrong again as usual?
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Daniel Gray
Oh and one more thing I forgot to put in....please show your proof of your false claim of Global Genocide. I wont hold my breath waiting....
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Rev Mark D
Since when do we continue the word and thing Church and religion/faith? Christ did not. He said he was the church, himself. He and his followers and others he was talking to met in homes, and did not seek to have buildings of congregations. A church is not a faith. A church is not a religion.
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John W
When the locals start referring to the local mega-church and it's satellite churches as "6 Flags Over Jesus" because of the ostentatious display of wealth displayed by the church, ya got to take a look at the image being presented. It's a major turn off visually and when it is being confirmed that they routinely turn away homeless people seeking refuge or assistance ya gotta wonder about their true interests.
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Timothy Newell
Let me speak for myself. i get more out of watching "In Touch" with the late, great Dr. Charles F. Stanley, Pastor Robert Morris, and Pastor Jack Hibbs on Daystar Sunday mornings than i do going to a church where the pastor doesn't even hold a Bible or refers to any verses of the Bible, like these teachers do. On YouTube, i get a lot from Tif Shuttleworth who also has a strong leaning on teaching the Bible. There are others who are very viable, and i haven't found any Pastor, male or female locally who is worth my time and tithe. Besides, being single, people who sit in pews who are half of a couple or part of a family tend to turn their noses up at singles like me, so i don't need the phony, two-faced, back-biting gossips at church. i know the Cross is enough, and whether i go to church or not won't matter one iota whether i get to the New Jerusalem or not!
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Daniel Gray
Thank you. You are a perfect example of the point I have been trying to get across to some people. Just because you dont attend a church on a regular basis does not mean that you have stopped believing. Some have, but nowhere near as many as some of these people would have you believe.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Yeah - what TN said.
I feel these people still believe in God - but have stopped believing in the church.
Too many people want to tell them what God 'says', what God 'wants' - and it's too often these days an negative, judgmental, hateful vision that has nothing to do with God and everything to do with current politics.
This is why most of them will disagree with you DG.
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Brien
It is because the believers won't acknowledge the world crimes committed in the name of their belief. Believe as you wish, but accept responsibility for your beliefs, the good and the bad.
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Jeanine Varas
My beliefs have changed since, but I was raised as a fundamentalist. I stopped going to Christian church after a Bible study about 25 years ago. It was not because of the Bible. It was because of a story the preacher told: (paraphrased) The preacher went to a ballgame. Near him was a father and his two children. The man had dirty fingernails and was drinking a beer and the kids had dirty fingernails and he could tell that family was not right with God. If they were right with God they would present their bodies with more respect, to show the way the Holy Spirit has transformed their lives. I said that was judgemental and he tried to convince me it wasn't, with some random Bible verses. I've watched what has happened to "Christianity" in the 25 years since. For the most part, I don't believe it's very Christian any more (and that's why it's in quotes).
That's my experience. 🙏🏼
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Richard Clark
I'm not in the least bit surprised. Generation Z can see the hypocrisy of white American Christianity which voted by 70-80 percent for Donald Trump whose ideology is the direct opposite of what Jesus taught.
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Angelic Realms
Has nothing to with Trump.
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Roger Ames Beck
Has everything to do with trump. He is Lucifer - but not as smart!
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JaZe
Learning about other religions and philosophies outside the narrow vision of a single religious path opens perspectives that may feel more in tune with the individual.
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William Patrick Talty III
I, like many people I know, are craving Community, Fellowship, and Spirituality, but not dogma, authority, or gatekeeping.
Religions are manufactured structures that build up around the natural human desire to connect nature and unity consciousness.
People know that the foundation of spirituality is subjectivity of perception, but objectivity of love and acceptance. It's radically accepting.
Churches are inherently not this, and unless they pivot, they will fail.
The truth is church does fill a desire, but I appreciate my Center for Spiritual Living because it's all of the things church is but not anything the church is.
I anticipate more universal communities to be the future.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
What a beautiful comment.
God is Love. Love is giving. Giving is creation. The proof of God's love is existence, which S/He creates perpetually.
The rest is up to us.
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Brien
God is on record for committing genocide on a global scale. What part of that was love?
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
People say a lot of things.
You have God to thank for that.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Until people start behaving in the way they claim the churches espouse, that is to say, they start helping others, being kind, being understanding, welcoming everyone with open arms, etc, almost ALL organized religions are going to keep losing people.
People, especially those from the Evangelical Churches, are using the bible as a kudgel and blade. Beating others over the head with it, ramming their religion down people's throats and even trying to force through laws, based on their bibles, to control people's very bodies.
To be honest? It's whyI left the church when I turned 15. I was born and raised Roman Catholic. Eventually, the churches are going to completely empty out except for those brainwashed by the ideas of hate, greed, malace, and self-centered cruelty. And they're going to get to the point they believe these things are GOOD things, instead of bad.
I mean look at all the pastors screaming calling people "demons" and how they should be killed simply because of their political views? Or scream out from their pulpits how people should be killed because they're LGBTQ+? And screaming for books to be burned, and claiming books are "pornographic" simply because of who the author is, or because the character happens to be LGBTQ+ or acts in any way they consider "abnormal".
There's one book about a little boy who likes dressing up in an orange dress and playing pretend. He's a normal little boy, plays with other kids, but he likes that orange dress. Eventually he grows up, and puts the dress away, because he doesn't play pretend anymore. But he always remembers his youth playing fondly.
Many Evangelicals, and hate-groups like "Moms for Liberty" call that book "Pornographic" and scream anyone who lets their kids read it are "Demonic".
And many scream that if you worship any other god besides THEIR God, you're demented and trying to get people "possessed by demons". And other such rhetoric.
So yes, it's no wonder churches are losing the younger generations.
And that's just one example, I've got huge stacks of examples why the younger generations are running from the churches in droves. And it will keep happening until people stop with the cruelty, narcissism, and misinformation spreading.
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Minister Raymond Butterworth
Bridget,
Allow me to complement you on what I would call a very intelligently written post.
The only part i will speak on is this; anyone who would call from the pulpit that any should be killed, this person should be removed from his/her position immediately. The Bible states hate the sin but love the sinner. To call for the death of one for being a sinner absolutely violates the teachings of the Bible.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Thank you. And sadly, you're right, they should be removed. And yet, you can find tons of videos, esp. in Mega-Churches, of them screaming for the deaths, and removal from all churches, of those who don't follow their political views. It's heartbreaking. And it is also why, again, so many churches are losing congregants.
Here in the comments, you can see the same kinds of hatred and vitriol. And even more will leave the churches for it.
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Roger Ames Beck
Traveling through Missouri I saw a billboard showing a picture of Donald Trump with Jesus standing behind him and something to the effect of "Thank God for Donald Trump"written on it. It made me sick! Here is the absolute most immoral, cruel, treacherous, ignorant and lying scoundrel being held up as some kind of savior ordained by God. How can these "evangelical" populations be this delusional? It's tragic, sad...and disappointing beyond measure.
No wonder the framers initially didn't want the common man to vote. Only men of letters...the masses were asses, can't let them near a ballot box. Same can be said of many today! Bill Mahr said America is too dumb to survive...boy that hit it on the head - especially with what I saw in Missouri. How can any young person get behind this? And join a church where these kinds of beliefs prevail? If young folks are steeped in any kind of reality - they can't. God help us!
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Tareq Asfour
This is reason this land Turtle Land aka America has became morally corrupt shutting out, The Mighty Creator G’D teachings from modern day Elementary & High schools,work places and replaced with forbidden ancient Philistine Phoenician Baal mythology Paganism, which the Israelite’s where told by Prophet Moses not to mess around intermarriage with our Philistine(Palestine) + Phoenician(Lebanon) of Canaan(Levant) women who worshiped Baalism(child sacrifice to fertility deities) in secret mixing into the all beliefs for centuries even till now 2023 . Turtle Island really has suffered 100 million Native Indigenous deaths since 1492 at hands of Christopher Columbus a Ashkenazic hiding as a Roman catholic practiced this forbidden ritual on Indigenous 1st Nations tribes…. Our ancient beliefs should have never came to these lands and waters leaving the Middle East sadly…..
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Daniel Gray
Sorry Tareq but you are so wrong your eyes are brown. Native Americans have been practicing genocide and slavery while your family was still in Europe living in caves and painting themselves blue. The Blackfoot hate the Comanche, and the Apache hate the Navajo and almost EVERY south western Tribes/Nations hate the Spanish with a burning passion since they came in and stole the land and actually killed off a few small nations and made slaves out of most of the rest. So whats your point with your myths, that is if you have one anyway.
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ServantOfJudgement
Right on Daniel. No race has ever been exempt of genocide or slavery. It's a human condition. The famous Geronimo became a fierce warrior because his family was eradicated by his fellow native Americans during a raid. He went mad with bloodlust and rightly so. I stood where he and his horse made the famous jump off a cliff to a river below. His prison cell was within sight of my barracks room window in Fort Sill Oklahoma. A true brave soul struck with tragedy issued by Mexican natives. The native Americans definitely kept their own population down without any guidance from the white guys. They knew how to enslave like the best, it was embedded into their culture. God's law on slavery is unique from mans law. Man never lets slaves free until they cover them with dirt. God says free them after 7 years. I bet the native American slaves wished their slaves masters knew Jesus.
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Donald Richard Starns
What? I mean to say———whaaaaat? What? Just: WHAT?
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Robert Edward Szekely
Wow. Racist much? "...Columbus a Ashkenazic hiding as a Roman catholic [sic]"? Why not just "Burn All the Deviants" (And I Shall Choose Them). Jeesh!
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Rev Mark D
Tareq, really? Ashkenazis pretending to be Catholics and practicing Catholic and Spanish and British empires genocide? I guess themonastery.org fully supports you, I don't see you having to submit to comment approval before yours get up here. What is wrong with these people running the website anyway?
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Rev Mark D
Not jews, Tariq. That is a very anti-semitic, as well as incorrect and inaccurate, statement. Maybe themonestary.org support you in your antisemitism, since they have not asked to have that anti-semitic and falsehood removed.
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Rev Mark D
Well Tareq, if Columbus had any Jewish background in him at all, heritage or whatever, it would have had to be Sephardic, speaking Castilian Spanish, and not be Ashkenazi, and therefore his ultimate background would be the same as mizrahi jews, who were thus actually originally an Arabic tribe, same as Mesopotamians and Syrians. And it also means that if Columbus was doing anything for judaism, it was trying to develop the same right of return to Israel that the Palestinians (Philistines as you call them) claim today, which I'm sure you support. And in that case you could not very well support one without supporting the other. So I don't see how you can align Columbus with Catholics, who were the biggest anti-semites of all (until the Nazis decided to do the same), since the same day that Columbus left on his voyage, Spanish crown gave Jews a month to either leave, convert, or be murdered, which they then proceeded to do, burning them alive, after first going through the Spanish Inquisition of robbery and torture to name other people as many as they could first. So your comment of Columbus being part of the Spanish crown and being Catholic really doesn't make any sense to me unless you meant to compliment him because the barbarism of the Catholics forced him into becoming a marano...and say that just like other people of compassion and humanism, Columbus is looking for a solution to the horrible things that the Spanish did to jews.
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Merlin
Assuming they are all “sheep”. “Sheep” are either led(controlled) or slaughtered
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Alexander Arends
Who needs God these days? We have it all; food at the table, a decent job, plenty of entertainment and recreation, you name it, we got it. God seems to come in handy when tragedy strikes, like a death in the family, or natural disasters or wars. When we go to church these days, it is not about worshipping God but about "feeling good".
I admire church goers. Many are looking for something they don't have. Others have found what they are looking for. Few go to be seen by others as god-fearing people. While we all seem to reject church goers as hypocrites, the majority are compassionate, caring benevolent people. I see it over and over, But church goers are fewer and fewer, mostly because they have all their needs met and only have so little time for worship.
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Robert Rohr
As my father who was president of two churches once asked me, "Who wants to get up on Sunday morning and sing morbid hymns written during the Bubonic Plague and chant boring creeds? Who can relate? Can't this church be more fun?"
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John Ekers
If this The Robert Rohr. Then you already know how to keep people in church. Turn away from the old stuff and embrace God’s love for all.
It’s not God who is lost it’s the so called Christian’s who are lost
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Clay Serenbetz
My indoctrination taught me that God was all-powerful, all-knowing, good and loving. I never had an explanation of why evil, early death, cruelty or pain is a necessary part of his plan. If he was really all that, then why doesn't he use his powers and knowledge for bettering all human conditions, such as eliminating cancer or ending racism and hate or ending poverty. These human conditions belie the propaganda that a Devine being is anything but cruel, hateful and machiavellian.
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Robert Rohr
Do you really expect Gen-Z (or most anyone for that matter these days) to get up on Sunday mornings and drive to church to recite week-after-week that they are "poor miserable sinners" and then sing hymns dating back to the Middle Ages? First, I may be a sinner, but I am not poor and miserable in Christ. The church needs to go where they are and not sit back and expect them to come to them. The churches need to develop options for worship outside of the traditional Sunday mornings. Individuals in the churches need to take personal responsibility for engaging others in the community during their interactions with them during the week. This is not preaching at them, but simply showing the merits of a Christian life.
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Angelic Realms
I stopped going at 8 or 9. The kid side back in 1979, the teachers were these 70's Californian types that were vegan and I to fitness. I am half Spanish and Portuguese. My mom is German ,very blonde and they loved her but hated me to the point that we had a .zoo bring out all these cute baby animals and every other kid could pet them except me, for being "disobedient". I had to sit in the corner. It's really because I was the only Hispanic looking kid and they thought I was adopted. I had curly dark hair and eyes. They treated meike a s cond class citizen for months. That day I walked out and never went back. I told my mom why and she was disgusted. She only went to the adult service by herself after that.
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Dorothy Hawkins
I was probably Gen Z before Gen Z was here - I left the church at age 13 - after the choir master priest tried to molest me in the choir robe area behind the rehearsal space...5th grade.
Of course, nobody believed me at age 6, when my 1st grade teacher cursed me to eternity in front of the entire population of the girl's at our religeous school.
Many clergy in the extended family; nowhere to turn but inside my own self for answers. All fakery - kids see things so much more clearly: good vs. evil.
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Herb Kopper
As a religious "mut" raised in many, visited many and am associated with many, I deeply enjoy the sermons of educated leaders. One of my old eagle scouts was just ordained as a priest in the catholic church. If ever you want to see the power of prayer and God, look into the eyes of a young priest! Their sole is pure, their heart is vast and their strength and conviction will help your heart. Jesus didn't pick a church, just asked for love for him. Pretty easy ask but too many of us make religion a business or a platform for their opinions. I feel bad for so many, but the a look for yourself, really look with your heart and your sole will give you your personal direction. Don't make religion so hard!
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Patricia Ann Gross
I think that shutting down churches during the COVID pandemic had a lot to do with it, especially for the millenials and older. Church attendance is a habit and people found other things to do on a Sunday. When the churches opened back up, people were still afraid of public places and didn't want to wear masks in church (me included), and people never really got back into the habit. For me, I have been in a bit of a faith reconstruction phase, so it feels like a step backward getting into the rigidity of a church's doctrine. God has opened my eyes about some of the realities of humanity in the past two to three years, and I am not sure what to do with it all.
For those younger, I really can't say. By the way, I DO believe that shutting down the churches for COVID was the RIGHT thing to do, because it was a potential breeding ground for a super-spreading event.
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John Casillo
AFTER READING ALL THESE COMMENTS....GOD HELP US ALL.....WE MAY NEVER KNOW...EVEN WHAT WE THINK WE KNOW......JUST ATTEMPT TO BELIEVE IN SOMETHING POSITIVE!
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Rev Ned
I grew up Holy MO Synod Lutheran in the 1950s. I’ve always loved musical theater. In the late 50s my mom told me that Leonard Bernstein was Jewish. My reaction was, “WHAT?!? You mean he’s going to hell when he dies?!?” She answered, “I guess so.” That was the beginning of my journey toward believing that, “If out of all the religions in the world, only 1 is true, then logic would dictate none are true.”
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William Fritz
While I have a belief and act on it I remember growing up with a say my mother used as to use as to why we sat in the back..."Those that sit in the front on Sunday will screw you over on Monday". That was in the sixties. She also told of all the priest trying to manipulate a result he wanted when my father asked for Last Rites as a Catholic.
I have been to many churches over the years, some more in tune to the teachings of Christ in regards to helping others when in need. There are others who feel it is their personal haven and you will never be accepted.
Looking at the current news on the various denominations that are splitting up and the why and you can see a more negative reality than anything positive. It would take years to overcome that decisiveness.
Add the various legal problems created over the years and trust is lost.
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Colleen McAllister
I attemd a church that is loving, caring, and was there for me through family illness, death, and financial problems. My congregation lives by the Bible. We are not perfect but are understanding of human frailties. We have all ages and welcoming of all races. Perhaps the posters have simply not found the right church.
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Emerald Moon
Sooooo they spent a billion dollars on ads instead of using the billion dollars to show what their religious ways can do things like house and feed the homeless, help with their church goers bills, and help their communities in all other ways that Jesus would have done .....then they have the audacity to ask why people aren't following them and going to church believing every word they spew....they just answered their own question......🤣🤣
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Minister Carlos Ricardo Walls
Society has become overwhelming for many people.It caused many to become skeptical and doubtful about things that are suppose to help in trying times.It doesn't seem to let up.A stern believer in prayer,but too many are a disappointment..
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Tom Herman
I've read through dozens of the comments and there seems to be common themes; one that younger people are disenfranchised by organized religion for a plethora of reasons and two, many younger people (the product of personal experience, learning and education) are choosing to make their own choices on what they want to participate in. A part of me thinks these two might be the same but I believe there's a difference between choosing to participate and simply ceasing to do so.
I grew up in the 50’s and 60’s post world war II period of America. Yes, I'm a Baby Boomer. I like to think I'm educated and socially aware and that has happened because of the evolution (emphasis added) of my own experience and learning.
I have observed a great deal of change in the social fabric we call society. Most of that change is tied in some form or fashion to economics. We have experienced some astronomical improvements in technology. That technology (much of it) was touted to be labor saving devices to make our lives easier and free up time to pursue other interests and or give us more time to spend with our families. I'm not sure it worked out that way.
In the middle part of the last century, one wage earner could buy a house raise a family, save money and expect to enjoy a retirement with dignity because they could count on Social Security, a defined benefit Pension and their Savings (New Deal benefits). During the last quarter of the 1900's we saw a marked decline in the American Dream. You can point to numerous reasons but it now takes two wage earners, many working two jobs to afford the same standard of living our Parents and our Grandparents enjoyed. It seems those labor saving devices did free up time but the result was a demand to produce more with that free time promoting unrealistic expectations on the work force. As workers produced more the demand became even greater forcing workers to put in more time and so forth. We can point to inflation, the rising cost of living and the political climate but they are excuses, not reasons. Those factors are engineered.
Now with much less time for people to devote to non employment activities hard choices need to be made on how people choose to spend their time. It is my observation in the United States that all the old institutional groups like the Rotary Clubs, Lion's Clubs, Freemason's, etc., including organized religion are suffering a decline in membership. Not only is it more difficult for groups to attract new younger members, we also see many of those middle aged people still in the workforce struggling to make ends meet reducing their participation or outright divorcing themselves from these groups to free what little time they do have to working, to spend time with their families or other concerns.
People will join groups that they perceive are in their best interests. I'm not persuaded that young people are any less religious as I've heard of research that does show many of these folks identify as spiritual. Also people will gravitate to groups they think are in their best interests as we are beginning to see an increase in labor union participation after decades of decline in this institution. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that most of Europe (90% unionized) does not suffer the same levels of decline in religion or other groups as in the US. In fact, both Christianity and Islam are the fastest growing religions in the European Union countries with Islam in the lead.
I believe that all the older institutional groups including organized religion will need to develop new strategies to show the younger generations how participation will benefit them. As so many of these groups are designed for social interaction such groups will need to show people why that matters and produce a tangible benefit. And yes, organized religion will need to also show people why faith matters if they expect to survive.
In closing, I've only touched on a few thoughts generated by this post and a few of my own observations over my life. The overall discussion could certainly take many different directions and it should. A lot of people today have numerous competing priorities and most of them are economic in nature. The post WWII generation created the biggest gains in less work hours, increased wealth and a social safety net that provided for a dignified future. As our society furthers the dynamic of greed and continues to erode the safety net that the Greatest generation and boomers established, we will continue to see less participation in religious organizations and other groups. We must not forget an old saying; "a rising tide floats all boats."
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Dr. Bob Thomas
Organized religion shares a great deal of the reason for so many leaving the Church. Yet I do see a very large group participating in the Social Gospel on YouTube. Those "preaching" appear (or try to appear) young themselves. They dress as the audience dresses. They speak as the audience speaks. They even managed to insert scriptures into their messages, which at times I must admit are relevant and necessary.
It is the Word of God that changes you, not the one who "interpretes" it. I am convinced that reading it for yourself is the key.
Human nature, being what it is, motivated by personal gain, influenced by corporate greed, manipulates it for nefarious reasons. It has always been this way. False teachers, false preachers are always among us .Yet Paul and Peter both declared that Jesus when is preached for any reason, it can accomplish it's intended goal - salvation.
Of course the Word must be hears, then believed, and acted upon by the individual before salvation can take place.
The body are called sheep for a very good reason. Good shepherds are necessary. Elders and Deacons have a responsibility as well. However; they all bare a double accounting. But in the end, the ultimate responsibility falls upon the individual sheep. They must play their part. They must do their work. They must accept their responsibility. They must understand this for themselves.
Finally, it is easy to see poorly placed faith. "You will know them by their fruit!" One of true discerning faith knows this.
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Thomas Lord
Well said
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Daniel Todd Kamm
Why there are so many more comments and opinions and answers than questions here is the answer to the question. True way back as now.
“By the side of the everlasting Why there is a Yes--a transitory Yes if you like, but a Yes.”― E. M. Forster, A Room with a View.
A good read BTW, with many insights into the problems, motivations, avoidance, and questions of the young... and the once young!
Peace Out.
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Merlin
Evolving from the need to be controlled.
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P. Keith Benefiel
Nobody "lives" the Bible. Read Leviticus some time!
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Patricia Ann Bellows
I don’t think they will come back anytime soon. There is too much hate in the world and too much hate using the Bible as the reason why. I have a very strong faith and baptized my children. They weren’t through confirmation. Then my church apologized my mom was in Hell for killing herself. Then told me, as a single mom because my husband cheated and ran off that I needed to find myself a man and become respectable. I am now looking for another church. Not full of hatred.
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Minister Raymond Butterworth
When i read these posts, not just on this subject but all the subjects on this site, and see the hate-filled, hypocritical stuff being said by persons who call themselves rev or another clerical prefix, its no wonder people don't go. I wouldn't go to church to listen to people like that preaching stuff like that. If we want to fill churches back up, the clerical leaders of those churches need to preach the word the Bible tells us to. People don't want to hear hate. They don't want to receive the word from a hypocrite. Church leaders must live the word and lead by example. Don't add anything to the Bible and don't take anything from it. Just the living word of God.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
The Bible is an epic work - but it is not living. Something living must be able to grow, and you just literally named the problem - the desire, the NEED by some - to keep it static.
It's been said something is either growing, or it is dying. Look around you. Believe your own eyes.
Constantly looking to the past is not the whole of the answer, and people know this. People want to grow, want to go further, and the attitude that the Word is static - must never change - is slowly strangling itself.
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Minister Raymond Butterworth
Read a passage from the Bible. Read the same passage 6 months later and you will find a different message there in the same words. This is the living word of God. When you read the word, you get what God wants you to. You get the understanding that will help you thru the trials that life is putting you thru. The next time you read the same passage, God will give you the understanding that will help you thru the next trials of life.
Thus we have the living word of God.
Gods teachings allow infinite potential for growth. God wants success, love, peace and joy to all in his flock, and ultimately, he wants us all to join him in heaven. His teachings are of love, forgiveness, and peace.
I don't understand why so many have such a big problem with this.
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David Ciambrone
If you read the bible you will see it is mostly fiction. The book of genesis is fiction. Creations stories are fiction. When told the people didn't know where the sun went at night. No one knows who wrote the OT. Moses sure didn't. And the NT was penned 70 to 110 years AFTER the supposed events took place and NOT by any eye witnesses. You don't even know what Jesus actually said. Then watch how preachers and priests behave. Churches are the biggest money whores around. When christians can't explain something they resort to god did it--but the problem is they can not prove their god exists. They attempt to use the bible as proof. But that doesn't work. Inspired by the holy ghost isn't a good explanation of who or how the bible was written. And they'll say you have to understand it through faith. More BS.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
No MRB, that is not the 'living word of God'. You can do that with any book. You can do that with the phone book. It means you have changed in the last 6 months.
And God is God. If God wants he could tell you what you want through any book. Yes, even the phone book. God is infinite, therefore all things, therefore not solely a Christian. God speaks through all things - yes, even Christ, whatever that is - and anything else S/He wants. It's called God-like power.
I don't understand why so many have such a big problem with this.
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Minister Raymond Butterworth
Your entitled to your opinion.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Read the cover of this book.
Not my opinion.
https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/a-guide-for-the-advanced-soul-a-book-of-insight-guide-for-the-advanced-soul_susan-hayward/279550/item/8764/#edition=2297613&idiq=191650
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Thomas Lord
The Bible is the key to learning and finding your place in gods plan. Our walk thru life is pre planned according to gods will. It is our individual choice to let the Holy Spirit guide us along our path or we choose our own path and ignore our spirit and WE TAKE CONTROL. We harden our hearts. My life. Nobody telling me how to live. I’m living my way. Small is the door and few will find it. Our adversary is in control of this earth and devouring souls by the dozens every moment. False prophets are all around us and ruining the church foundation. I read reasons why people shun church and I agree with all the comments that point out the wrongs of our religious leaders.
But the Bible states that the gifts god gives you should not be abused. Don’t lead your flock down the wrong path. Here again pastors take control and don't follow the guidance of the spirit within us. A selfish human action of we want control. The Bible is mistranslated. Verses are confused and misread all the time. Churches today are used by greedy humans to fleece their flock. Ministers don’t need mansions - Cadillacs - gold watches - or 600.00 dollar suits. That’s a thief stealing from the flock and mocking gods will. Bible says beware false prophets. Churches today are off the plan of our god. Church is not for the leaders will or their greed of money. Church is for gods family to rejoice and celebrate gods love and grow closer to our creator. The answer to all the arguments is simple FOLLOW THE HOLY SPIRIT. Or choose to ignore it. God gave us the will to follow him or go our own way. It’s not complicated or hard to do but we all choose our path to follow. Again - small is the door and few will find it. Many reject the gifts god offers. Be alert and seek wisdom. Or go your own way. As ministers we are held accountable for our actions and teachings and our leadership. Just follow the Holy Spirit. God will bless you. You will receive his love and god will reaffirm you in your path. I have seen gods beauty I feel my love for the Holy Spirit I let the Holy Spirit guide me. I seek gods gifts as promised. I accept the path set before my according to my fathers path. I choose this path because my holy father has shown me his love and beauty. God has proven to me all I need to know to believe in his son and to accept forgiveness thru the sacrifice of Jesus. I can’t force any person to accept gods will. But I can share the word and teach the word as god has instructed us to do so. For the last time I say FOLLOW THE HOLY SPIRIT. LET IT FLOW THRU YOU ALWAYS. THATS GODS GIFT TO US-
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Thank you for sharing your beliefs.
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Thomas George-Gilmore
Just for starters, am not an American am a Brit but it's the same here. Now it's easy for someone like me to somewhat dodge this because, I am an Atheist and never really go to Church etc. I can't leave religion when I never joined in the first place. But my theory is that because of all the hate, all the capriciousness, all the gaslighting, all the hypocrisy that comes with the church and blasphemy no longer being a criminal offence, people can now think freely for themselves. And in this secular, liberal yet equally multifaith world, people these days are able to leave the church on their own free will.
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William I. Hegeman
Religion is empty if faith and belief fail to support communities and individuals.
Belief is empty when hypocrisy and maliciousness goes against people's reality. Faith as a requirement to bypass critical thinking to accept symbolic reality as a substitution for reality as people live it. When faith fails to manifest a better reality, and belief fails when its objectives fail, why follow what hurts you, mentally, physically and spiritually?Religion fails when it doesn't build and supports a healthy community.
I wrote a paper that I wanted to present at an ecumenical pagan conference.
https://archonstone.wordpress.com/2023/04/11/tribes-for-the-future-a-pagan-perspective/ Tribes for the future, a pagan perspective.Even amongs paganst who by most accounts view their faith and practice as a means for self empowerment. Yet we are all subject to millenias of destruction tribes. communities, multi-generational families and even socially into incrementally smaller cliques. We destroyed our communities. We say we have communities, but our social intelligence is massiviely stunted. We cannot recognize the absolutely low level of thinking of what is needed in a tribe where support can be found in families, internal societies and the structures of culture, and lastly trust in eldership and leaders, and how they are built created and the how and why of them being trusted.
We are isolated and trust no group, because we trust no leadership. Even in consensus culture, the manipulative emotional leader ends up controlling the group, and gravitates toward the social norm of sociopaths manipulating groups. Even pagans are being more solitary and secular in my observation. And because they have come from this socialized abuse of churches and surround communities, they are ripe for low grade sociopaths due to their unresolved victimologies. Two or Three generations of pagan self empowerment, they too become more and more isolated and as usual avoid big religious groups, not trust leaders, and out of pain and further social isolation, don't socialize or commune as much. While pagan conventions, conferences and festivals, there is the social contract of community, and restores ones beliefs or the sense of awe in ritual, but find classes more about personal empowerment and personal ways of interacting with the world. Yet, we don't have the tools to integrate in society, much less reconciliate our interactions with people in localized groups much less society as a whole. To do that we have to create tribes consciously rebuilding the empowerment, trust, leadership and wisdom of multigenerational families and organizations.
As to those hypocrites who sin in all things, yet believe they are washed blameless, whether evangelical or calvinist, I leave them this verse Mark 3:28-29
28Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation. The argument is that this is for those who haven't accepted Jesus, you can't blaspheme the Holy Spirit until you do.Jesus's Ministry wasn't with the churches and synagogues. It was with the publicans and sinners. Not with the pious hypocrites, but those who acknowledged their flaws.
As Edward Gibbons showed how the version of christianity that survived was due to the sect that survived by ratting out the other sects because they made provisions for the poor, the sick, the widowed and indigint, so proconsuls can destroy and murder those groups, for lucure to provision their military campaigns, that part of christian ministry that Jesus created was also systematically destroyed.
What churches failed to protect and provide for even in this country back in the 1830's cities had to enact social reforms to provide to those who immigrated back into the cities, as the publicans and sinners of old. Then we removed those programs today, by these same church and politics that is destroying the churches today from within.
The Unitarian Universalist church in Schenectady NY was built by Atheists who supported Logical Humanism, and lost members when they brought in a conservative minister. CUUPS that was thriving there as well support for education of other religions went away, as well as their members. That was over 30 years ago.
Trying to build a community on love, trust and spirituality, instead of blind faith in dogma is difficult. This because we have a cumulative distrust over the past thousands of years where it has gotten much worse over the past 60 years.
We have to do what is right and do it consistently and build leaders we can trust from within a community, not from bringing them from without. People who have a vested interest in their community and their families. This will take decades, and we need to start now.Archonstone linktr.ee/archonstone
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Rev. Jim Sutton
Millennials and Gen-Zers blame everybody else for their problems (because Millennials and Gen-Zers don't take responsibility). Therefore, if everyone is at fault and as long as they avoid them, why do they need God to protect and save them? That mentality can be seen in some of the responses in the article itself.
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Lisa Ann Apynys
Blanket statement that's untrue.
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Jennifer Sue Jackson
If religious leaders and their financiers would quit using fear as a means of control, and start focusing on faith, they might have a better chance of getting the younger generations invested. No one wants to be told they are going to hell if they don't behave, or be guilted into giving part of their income when most people are barely hanging on. Try a different tactic. Like maybe love and hope and being good to your fellow humans.
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Daniel Mears
I get it , pain and sorrow, praying and getting silence hurts but I tell you this, there is power in the Word of God! Most folks just haven't read the Bible enough to grasp the power within...just my 2 cents..therealmbydanielmears.com
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Lisa Ann Apynys
As ministers we need to meet people where they are spiritually and reconceptualize a rather outdated model that doesn't encourage spiritual evolution. I was raised within the Catholic faith and masses were boring, robotic and uninspired, not to mention there was no real emphasis on having a close, personal relationship with Yeshua. And in these modern times, women are still excluded from the priesthood, disenfranchising the younger generation.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
People are waking up to how evil the Abrahamic faiths are.
Could it be that the human race is evolving past the need for organized religion? Perhaps, and this is just a thought, more people engage in spirituality without the need for the trappings of religion. I'd be interested to know how many, or what percentage, of the "unaffiliated" regard themselves as spiritual, without the need for religion as such. I'm curious.
Kenneth I love your train of thought! Yes. I'm GenX and I gave up on "organized" religion in my late twenties. I've found my own path and my heart and soul feel I am on the path meant for me. I know others are like me as well. Many, MANY of us are waking up to the fact that the Bible is not what man claims it to be. There is so much more out there for us to learn and grow into.
Joy Thank you. May I share? Wisdom is experiencing something, Learning from that experience, and Applying what you learned. It is my collective understanding that we are conduits for truth based on wisdom adding to All. Time is relative to the physical only, we are Spiritual we are Energy, we are Eternal. Stay the course!
Eagle, I'd say no to evolution. Not because it appears vastly more miraculous than a creator, rather we're still the greedy blood thirsty barbarians we've always been. There's always a willing warlord or dictator around the corner.
Spiritually I'd bet you're right. People that know there's something bigger than them still need to live that life and they'll find a way to connect to it. That could be a Christian that doesn't like church or someone's own personal idea of what it means to be human with a bag of dried peyote.
Nah. Humans are more than what wannabe theologians and backwards thinking demagogues, like SOJ here. For every warlord and tyrant who weren’t hugged, and were beaten and mistreated, there’s hundreds who just wanna be left alone. It’s all in the raising. People are neither evil nor good. They just simply are. Perpetual sin is a scam to control people.
Robert,
You think the 1994 Rwanda genocide where over 500k people were butchered in 100 days was because someone got too many spankings and no hugs?
My point that humans have not evolved beyond the blood thirsty barbarians we were 20000 years ago still stands true.
Next please.
If you go into a dark room without a flashlight, all you will see is darkness.
You say no to evolution?
Are you trying to be the stereotypical religious fanatic? Really - you had to literally say "No to evolution"???
Kenneth,
Maybe you should read Eagles post that I responded to.
What's wrong with no to evolution? Do think you're evolved more than the man of 1000 B.C.? You, me and anyone reading this is the exact same barbarian that smashed animal skulls for food 20,000 years ago. We just wear fancy pants and drink from a tea cup today. Take away our factory slaves, electricity and cell phones then you'll see mans true nature. You'll see LGBTQIA rights evaporate, women's rights and any notion of equality will blink out of existence. There would be no more rights. Millions upon millions would kill and cannibalize each other within a month. Drug cartels are willing to do these things without any tech loss. They record it with a camera. Warlords cause this regularly, we document it. You can watch video of people cannibalizing each other in war zones.
No, I don't think we want to see our so called evolved selves in action, not for one minute.
My statement is correct.
Whilst human society hasn’t changed much in 10 Millenia. Humans have evolved, and are evolving in real time. Human jaws are getting smaller, people are being born with wisdom teeth, our brains are a bit different, all that extra meat our ancestors ate was a real brain booster, humans are taller than we were 500 years ago. 20 millennia ago, most humans weren’t the blood thirsty monsters you’re trying to project as. We were a mixture of things. Some were, many weren’t. It wasn’t till the rise of male dominated societies 12’000 years ago did women rights, lgbtq+ rights, the freedoms of people, and even things like equality seem to evaporate. evidence suggests that in many parts of Europe that people enjoyed a lifestyle where art was encouraged and flourished, and people lived in towns close to their gardens and food supplies.
This bloody caricature of humanity you’re trying to push comes from idiot concepts like perpetual sun and humans are inherently evil. They’re not.
Ruknke,
Cannibalism in Haiti summer of 2023. Quite evolved, no? Ethiopia warlord fun fest, stay tuned, it's a live feed of some highly evolved humans playing with fancy clubs and wagons. You're right, caveman would never know how to pull a trigger.
You keep on day dreaming about how evolved you are, I'll keep watching humans murder and cannibalize each other.
I don’t deny that humanity has a dark side. Can’t have good without evil an all that. However. The problems in Haiti are due to European interference and colonialism. The problems in the world today are because of Europe’s greed and gluttony encompassing the globe.
You symbolically eat the flesh of your god, no? I’ve read of many accounts of westerners being cannibals. I don’t need to look at Haiti or Africa, it’s right here in the states. Baring a cross, draped in an American flag, and usually by someone who claims conservatives can do wrong.
Im not so naive to think humans aren’t animals, we are just another extension of nature. You seem like the kind of goose who revels in “rules for thee not for me.”
As a percentage of the human race, your examples are the extreme, not the norm. Anyone can scream doom and gloom using outliers as the example - heck that is how our politicians stay in power.
I agree with your premise that there is little physical/brain evolutionary difference between us and prehistoric man. However I would argue that your premise that all early human civilization was universally barbaric and or cannibalistic and or bigoted is flawed. As a student of ancient cultures, there is growing evidence that most ancient non-Abrahamic cultures did not dictate either strong gender roles or have issues with gender identity. For instance, many not intact remains of hunters and warriors that were assumed to be male by male archeologists who were raised in the female subservient culture of the 20th century are being proved by modern DNA technology to actually be female. The whole concept of male hunters/female gatherers is being called into question based on the scientific evidence.
It is absolutely true that the human race is filled with war and battles and atrocities, however a vast majority of humans in recorded history never saw a battlefield, and there is no evidence that this was any different in pre-history.
I would imagine that everyone had a job regardless of gender. Females that were the "gatherers" likely had children that they were tending to and children could be brought along. Hunting with an infant strapped to your back would be problematic. As with even more modern cultures, when it came to fighting, everyone that could fight did fight with little regard to whether they were male or female. There is plenty of evidence of female warriors to know that it was far from unusual.
So nothing has changed has it?
Funny - I never saw a caveman on a computer.
Evolution is no longer in the hands of nature. Ever heard of the Anthropocene extinction? Have you seen what we've done with domesticated animals? Genetics has been reduced to an engineering problem. You want to see 'evolution', just wait another 50 years.
Not much of anything you say is correct. Man is evolving, and some like you wish to de-evolve. Not everyone subscribes to the mythical superstition nonsense anymore. We are not afraid of the dark, or black cats, or some made up supreme being that is on record for committing genocide on a global scale. I am not sorry for this, but I do pity you for still believing in hate. That is what organized religion is all about. Exclusion, hate, and brainwashing using fear as a weapon. Well, there you have it. The reasons people are leaving religious beliefs. Nothing wrong with being spiritual, but you don't need a mythical, murderous supreme being.
Good points, well said. Thanks for the input. 😊
Religion being the teaching of a belief, and people are losing trust in a belief structure that is steeped in contradiction and controversy. “God is Spirit, worship in Spirit and Truth“ To be spiritual is to follow the example that was laid out by Jesus. We are spiritual beings having a physical experience. Jesus showed us how to remain spiritual while being physical. He continuously reminded us that it was not he who did those things of wonder, but he who live within. Now granted those are my words, so I’m not saying that I’m quoting the Bible, but what I am saying is once we come to the understanding that we are not who we think we are, but who we truly are, Spiritual, energy, part of All, we come to understand blindly following organized religion tends to keep us from that truth. How can we “strive“ to be perfect yet believe that we can never be perfect. This contradiction is not of God. Younger people are beginning to understand that enlightenment comes from truth not from dogma. Once you take something heard, read, preached, and divide it down to its simplest form, you get closer to the truth. The confusion ritualization and complexity of organized religion is just not working. To address this particular topic takes more than a mere comment in a blog or post. I would love the opportunity to share one on one the understanding of truth that I have come to be enlightened with over my 70 years.
Dr. Rohn, your reply is so enlightening and encouraging. It is very nice to see someone who understands the dilemma of striving for perfection or maturity and never seeming to obtain it. Thank you for your wonderful contribution that succinctly describes our experience of this life, of being spirit in natural form. The Bible says in the Book of Timothy to study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth. The Bible also says that the Holy Ghost will be our teacher. It is important to gather together but as individual believers it is up to us to study and be ready to talk about the hope that we have. I think that many times, organized religion can snuff out our hope, especially in the cases seen above. What a betrayal, to go to a sacred place to find hope and be violated. Not all churches are bad and I think as ministers it is our responsibility to provide a safe space for discourse and learning as well as personal accountability. We should be examples to those we lead and we need to lead from a place of love, not hate or pride or entitlement. You, Dr. Rohn, seem to be a man of great understanding and I appreciate your post. Thank you.
America is really confused with 41,000+ made up christian denominations of course they are going to leave when they see only business corruption to fullest.In last 3 years I gained more 10,000 followers, which now Im resorting to open land plains with lakes or going beaches to hold a services on Saturdays & anyone ready to be baptized.
Baptized? Are you the + you mentioned added to the 41,000? And you have “more than 10,000 followers,” and growing I presume based on your missive. The premise of religious is basically, the more people you have believing (following) you the more you’re the “way” and if someone has more than wage war to lower those numbers before they are the “way.” Wars are waged for this. You say, “America is confused” with so many “made up christian denominations” yet are you aligning yourself in and with that chaos? What is your “service?” What are you offering to attract over 10,000 to follow? Just curious…