A New York-based Christian wedding photographer will not have to shoot same-sex weddings, a federal court judge recently ruled.
Emilee Carpenter says she’s been asked by gay couples to photograph their wedding, and she’s turned them down every time, citing her religious belief that marriage is between a man and a woman.
Despite the fact that none of the couples pushed back or legally challenged her in any way, Carpenter filed a suit in the U.S. District Court for her right to refuse to service same-sex couples on faith grounds.
It’s been a years-long battle against New York’s anti-discrimination laws, which could result in a fine of up to $100,000 for Carpenter for declining to provide her services for a same-sex wedding. But now, a judge agrees that Carpenter cannot be legally compelled to provide services that violate her religious beliefs.
The president of the Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF), which represented Carpenter, celebrated the win on social media:
If This Seems Familiar...
Carpenter joins a long list of aggrieved Christian wedding vendors who argued in court that they should legally be allowed to discriminate against same-sex couples. Bakers, invitation designers, florists, clothing store owners, bakers again… nearly every type of wedding vendor one can imagine has at some point gone to court to defend their biblical view of marriage.
The courts originally ruled against Carpenter, but an appellate court ordered the district court to hear her case again following the Supreme Court ruling in 303 Creative LLC v. Elenis.
That case is shockingly similar to Carpenter’s; It was brought by a Christian website designer out of Colorado who refused to design wedding websites for same-sex couples, citing her faith beliefs. And just like Carpenter, the case was pre-emptive. The same legal team even represented both of them.
Nevertheless, the Supreme Court sided with Smith, ruling that she could not be compelled to design a website for a same-sex wedding.
Legal Discrimination?
Citing the Supreme Court precedent set in 303 Creative, Judge Frank Geraci narrowly ruled in Carpenter’s favor, ruling that her wedding photography constituted “mediums of expression,” and that she could not be legally compelled to express thoughts in conflict with her faith.
Geraci sought to underline how narrow his ruling is, writing that “New York’s public officials remain fully empowered to police the public marketplace to ensure that ‘gay couples [are not] treated as social outcasts … inferior in dignity and worth.’”
It’s unclear where the case goes from here. The New York attorney general’s office will review Geraci’s ruling and decide how to proceed.
For now, though, Carpenter’s legal counsel – again the ADF – is taking a victory lap. “As the Supreme Court reaffirmed in 303 Creative, the government can’t force Americans to say things they don’t believe,” said ADF Legal Counsel Bryan Neihart.
“The U.S. Constitution protects Emilee’s freedom to express her own views as she continues to serve clients of all backgrounds and beliefs... Emilee can now enjoy the freedom to create and express herself, a freedom that protects all Americans regardless of their views.”
What do you think? Should Christian wedding vendors be able to turn down same-sex clients?
121 comments
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Is this another FAKE lawsuit by Christians? Remember as we learned about the Christian lawsuit in Colorado the Christian who initiated the lawsuit was NOT a wedding photographer, didn't have a business license, created her web page AFTER the lawsuit was imitated and the Gay couple that SHE claimed contacted her to take pictures of the wedding didn't even exist.
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Keith Ramsey
It appears she filed a lawsuit, because the customers accepted that she said she didn't want to work for them. The customers went to another vendor...with no complaints.
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Michael Hall
Fundamentally, a person cannot be forced to associate with whom they would rather not. Any excuse, or no excuse, is valid. If she wants to restrict her business and her social circle accordingly, that's on her.
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
In the same way, non-bigots cannot be required to use her services. There are plenty of other photographers will happily accept the business.
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Rev. Carol M Anaski-Figurski
Interesting article. LGBT still has not made many advances in full acceptance. It's her business It's her choice. On the flip side specialty photographers may rise in the gap of just doing LGBT services. Let freedom ring! Blest Be Amen to all!
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Alexander Clarke
LGBT will not make any meaningful advances as long as right wing bible thumpers exist
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Reverend Paula Copp
I’m a member of the LGBT+ community. I don’t understand why any self- respecting of my community would want to use a professional who didn’t want their business. That being said, why would a photographer sue when nobody tried to insist that she perform a service that she didn’t want to provide. It seems like she just wanted to sue for the sake of suing. It should have been tossed for lack of legal standing.
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
She was just seeking publicity. Maybe she's already losing business as a result of her hateful, anti-gay, stance.
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Eugene T Rice
If I refuse to accept black men as students in my college, because I think that God meant the races to be kept separate, is that Christian charity? Bob Jones University claimed this was a matter of faith. When they lost their tax exempt status, however, they rethought their theological commitment. Also important to our consideration, Is such behavior un-American? At some point, I'm sure, the Supreme Court will rule. Until then, allow the marketplace to speak. As a Christian, sould I patronize a hotel that does not rent rooms to Jews? Sould I have dinner at a steakhouse the does not serve women? One, even as dim as myself, realizes that if Christians can discriminate against gay souls, the rest of the world can discriminate against Christians..
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Rev. Marlise
If you read Romans 1 18-32 you will see we are not supposed to accept or condone what God finds as wicked or sinful.
Romans 1:18-32 New International Version God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity 18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
It’s always so cute when people attempt to use their religious beliefs and books to prop up their hatred, bigotry, racism, and homophobia.
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Michael Siebielec
And it isn't very pretty.
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Donald G Magel
Just a reminder: We are all made in God's image; that means all of us! Jesus Christ loves all of us. You can hate whoever you want, but it was not Christ"s directions for us to follow.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
“ If you read Romans 1 18-32 you will see we are not supposed to accept or condone what God finds as wicked or sinful.”
In for a nickel….
I’m sure that there is a long list of things in the bible that are prohibited but that you do. Things that likely could have gotten you killed.
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Reverend Paula Copp
What did JESUS say about gays? Nothing…
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Just noticed your entire post is just copying passages from the bible. If you actually typed that I’d be amazed. Nope, no typos. Copy/pasted, didn’t ya’?
That’s sloth, one of the deadly sins.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
"They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy."
Well now. Somehow it seems that the entire focus has gone to one small passage in all of that and people are utterly obsessed with homosexuality, but ALL of what I quoted is being ignored hard. The very administration that so many Christians are holding up as paragons of what is right is utterly filled with gossips and slanderers who are insolent, arrogant and boastful, who are adulterers, and have an absolute lack of love and mercy for the people they are deporting and the people they are cutting off aid for and killing.
Why do they get a free pass simply because they aren't doing anything gay? That's ONE sin versus eight right there, and none of them are listed as worse than any other. So why is that one thing such an obsession and the rest are just brushed off as "politicians will be politicians"?
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Patricia Ann Gross
Rev. Marlise,
If you are going to quote Paul, please be sure to read the whole letter/epistle before developing a doctrinal statement about what is being said there. Paul was writing a letter to a church he did not establish nor did he ever visit. (New Interpreters NRSV commentary). The verses you quote are Paul describing God's judgement falling on the Gentiles because of their idolotry. If you read further in Chapter 2, Paul describes God's Judgement on the Jews because of their self-righteousness. He is every bit as harsh againt the self-righeous as he is against the idolotor. Chapter 3 then talks about how works don't save us from judgement, but then all is not lost, because the rest of the book sets up the notion of salvation by grace, which is shown by faith.
Quoting Paul is hard, because without context it can have meanings that Paul never intended. One thing Paul never intended when he was on his missionary journeys (this one falls near the end of his third one), is for the letters he wrote to the churches to become scripture and the basis for Christian doctrine. They were letters for specific churches that had specific issues that needed addressing The church in Rome was one that had a mix of Jews and Gentiles affected by the Pentacost, so there was a lot of in-fighting and difference of opinions on how the church should be run. Paul's letter was meant to set the record straight that nobody was perfect, we all fall short, and through our faith and God's grace, salvation is possible.
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Tecla Caryl Loup
Gee, I didn't know that Romans contains Jesus' message. It was allegedly written by Paul, who seems to have had some rather hidebound ideas about proper behavior. I do not believe that Paul's views are necessarily those of (the Christian) God/Jesus. Remember, those who would dictate your sex life want to have you by the balls.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Why do they keep litigating the same issue? The Supreme Court has already ruled that businesses can discriminate against LGBTQ individuals. Bakers, web designers, and now photographers are allowed to discriminate as they wish. Consequently, this means their other customers can choose not to do business with them. This leads to cries that Christians are being persecuted. It’s a never-ending cycle. If people simply respected others for who they are, this wouldn’t be necessary.
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Michael Siebielec
They want to keep racking up legal wins so when the corrupt Supreme Court finally rules to send gay marriage back to the states so they can do to it what they did to abortion. And if MAGA hate gets worse even more Christian hate will boil over and burn our personal freedoms. Check out this video for a clue.https://youtu.be/Gc5LgSo9PrU?si=1n3gvyXB7GQDwC0U
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James Riggle-Johnson
Some of them have done this. A gentleman in one of the Bible Belt states was shot and killed while he and his husband were standing outside their home, which had just burned down. The man who was shot was crying over their loss when a neighbor approached and shot him. The couple had received several threats about burning down their house. All because they were gay.
We are beaten, crippled, and murdered for no reason other than being gay. Granted, it doesn't happen nearly as much as it did a few decades ago, but it is still happening.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
What a drama queen. I'm glad she won her right to continue life as usual, whatever. I do think that she should not have to do things that are against her religion. However, I also think that businesses that discriminate should have to post prominently that they discriminate, so that people know where to shop and don't waste their or the business owner's time.
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Gary Michael Steele
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Thank you for the clear-eyed comment!
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Phillip A. Garver
I wish honesty and openness could become more prevalent - This woman, and all businesses, ought to advertise clearly all of their "won't provide services for..." That way everyone would know and be able to find better fits. If you want to discriminate, do it loudly for all to see!
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John Reseigh
I have no problem with her refusing to violate her beliefs. But she must face the consequences by enduring this bad publicity for her bigotry. I am sure she has lost potential clients.
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Najah P Tamargo
Najah Tamargo-USA
If someone disagrees with same sex marriages.....DO NOT HIRE THEM!!!
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
If someone disagrees with same sex marriages they should not get married to someone who is the same sex as themself.
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Keith Ramsey
Which is exactly what happened, but she sued anyway... but I'm not sure who she sued.
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Danielle Elizabeth Ostach
I am guessing she apply to court for injunctive relief to prevent the law from being applied to her as it could have been at any time. Namely she asked to be exempted from the law. It is an iffy concept in law.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
If I needed someone to perform an important service for me, I would not pick someone who hated me to do it.
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tuppennyblue
Nobody said she 'hated' anyone.
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Donald G Magel
She just did not want to "walk in sin" as she believes Christ ruled "gay marriage". She must get direct messages from her Lord.
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David Cuevas
Love is Love whether between Man/Man, Woman/Woman, Man/Woman.....BUT you can't Force someone to do what you want and have a tantrum about it. Hire someone else and they'll do the Job.
The End.
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Christine Nolte Joyce
Nobody tried to force her. That's the issue here. She filed a lawsuit...but there was no actual client that hadn't taken her "no" for an answer and went elsewhere. She's a victim in her own mind.
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David Cuevas
I wouldn't say she's a Victim. And this whole "Victim" Terminology is out of context with business. Whether she was going to Sue or someone was going to Sue, she had to make it known for other business owners in her field and other Marital Fields that the Right to Refuse Service is going to happen and she wanted to protect herself from any future issues.
Say what you want but I understand what she is doing. You have to think on all fronts and put things away from yourself if you're going to understand how the mind works.
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James Riggle-Johnson
But David, this has already been done twice. Once with the baker who refused to bake a cake, and the Web Designer, who by the way, had not been asked to create a same-sex wedding site either. They both went to the Supreme Court and both won the suit. Are we going to need a court victory for every business that doesn’t want to wait on homosexuals?
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David Cuevas
What's gonna happen when We Reverends, Pastors, Ministers as a Whole of Universal Life Church as a whole get prosecuted because we believe in all Marriages should be held Sacred ? The Pope right now is saying Marriage is between a Man and a Woman but in ULC were allowed to do Same Sex Marriages is every Marriage done by a person by the cloth and/or Ordained going to be revoked and Are we as ULC going to be punished for this ?
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
So under what conditions would a doctor, say with surgical skills not found elsewhere, be able to tell a religious patient to bugger off and die?
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Ari Joseph Bertine
Not sure, but considering that some states allow medical professionals to do this with LGBTQ+ patients, there's the precedent. I think the primary condition is that the doctor has to be a heartless ******* on a power trip who likes to play God and declare the power over life and death. After that it's all just technicalities.
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
Good point. Sauce for the goose etc.
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Steven Ferrell
You are comparing apples to oranges.
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Elizabeth Susan Cosgrove
How so? Minor pivot, but folks needing organ transplants have to agree to a onerous list of conditions to be put on the transplant list. The condition causing the most agita at the moment is the Covid vaccination.
Perhaps a little closer to the mark is surgeon facing working on a Jehovah's Witness with a surgery that could cause a substantial amount of blood loss. The surgeon and team are not trained in the techniques to recirculate lost blood.
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TZTX
I don't think the gay couple will die if the photographer doesn't take their pictures. AND...why would anyone want a service from someone that doesn't seem to be totally in, in making your experience great.
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Jeffrey Van Keulen
With a cursory search, you would find a significant supply of photographers in most major cities willing and able to provide services to anyone willing to pay. Some specialize in same sex weddings.
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Michael Hunt
This isn't a question about photographers, it's about if doctors were to do the same thing.
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Rev. Marlise
Good for her! I myself will not preform a same sex marriage. It is against my religious beliefs. I mean I will wish them well but I don't feel comfortable preforming a same sex marriage and not one should be forced to do anything against their religious beliefs and think that is what this whole suit is about.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Has anyone tried to force you into performing a same-sex marriage? I think she should advertise that she won’t photograph same-sex weddings and lose business based on her religious beliefs. This was a nonsense lawsuit. Nobody was trying to force her to do anything.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Ah, yet another ‘I don’t feel comfortable.’ type.
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
The suit was unnecessary, she was just seeking her five minutes of infamy.
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Christine Nolte Joyce
As was established in the legal proceeding, no clients that she denied because of her religious beliefs have tried to compel her.
None.I find it interesting that that historically those religions that have engaged in the most pervasive persecution of those outside their prescribed faith are always the ones most loudly claiming they are the ones actually being persecuted.
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
The suit was unnecessay, she was just seeking her five minutes of infamy.
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Rachael Evans
May I ask, what is it that makes you uncomfortable? I've heard this argument before but I've not heard why. I'm not trying to cause an argument, I promise, I'm genuinely curious about what makes you feel uncomfortable.
For myself, I feel discomfort at a situation where the outcome is likely to cause me some form of loss or pain. If I don't understand something, I am uncomfortable at myself, not the situation in front of me. I don't have to align but if I am aware that for mself, there is no loss or pain, I become comfortable enough.
Genuinely appreciate the feedback, it may help myself and others to understand the 'uncomfortable' perspective.
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Danielle Elizabeth Ostach
There is nothing wrong with your refusal under your beliefs. Send them my way, I will happily perform the ceremony. I charge Travel costs + $1 (if local, I won't even charge travel).
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Christine Nolte Joyce
This statement by the lawyers made my eyes roll so hard I almost lost consciousness:
“The U.S. Constitution protects Emilee’s freedom to express her own views as she continues to serve clients of all backgrounds and beliefs... ”"Continue to serve clients of all backgrounds and beliefs"...ummm, no.
She has already established that she's refused to serve a specific demographic. And nobody challenged her refusal. So the point of this case isn't actually HER religious rights, since they haven't been challenged.Christian Nationalists are using pawns like Emilee to further their takeover attempt.
"Emilee can now enjoy the freedom to create and express herself, a freedom that protects all Americans regardless of their views."
Nobody was stopping her from creating or expressing herself and this supposed freedom to descriminate doesn't translate in any way to protecting ALL Americans...only those who choose to weild their Religion like a weapon.
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Joseph Grieco
Her taking this to court is just another whiney victim play. There is NO law that says she has to accept anyone as a customer. My question here is why did the Gay couple approach HER? If they were aware of her policy, who were THEY trying to score points with?
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Tecla Caryl Loup
From what I read above, no gay couple approached her. No suing involved. She just wanted a pre-emptive court ruling to "protect" her from projected attacks by gay couples. And perhaps wanted some publicity in case we were all wondering whether she would photograph a gay couple's wedding.
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Kimberly N Hebbe
Ah yes, rather than being emotionally mature and saying "I'm not comfortable with that, but here is someone who can take pictures for you" she pulls the "they are forcing me to be a decent human being" card. SIGH.
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Nicholas J Page
Did the judge follow correct procedures as lain down by the law or does the judge hateam gaYstrad. This is the 21st century we have 2 gay women living above us who have just got engaged on holiday in have offered my services to the happy couple.
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Daniel Todd Kamm
Wrong. And poor legal advice aside:
If this young woman wants a business, she needs to make business-like decisions. But she is not very good at it.
So she's not getting enough business to start with, but then that Golden opportunity arrives, also known as the legal publicity stunt: the typical go-to allegation of the "woe is me, I'm an oppressed christian."
Being Jewish, I understand the "woe is me, I'm an oppressed (insert whatever you want.)
Like "my son the doctor is being sued for malpractice? But we're still paying for medical school! So, he removed an appendix from a lady who was there for a gall bladder operation. She should thank him later when it needs to come out anyway. It's just because he's Jewish and they think he has money. But we're still paying for medical school!
So shock, shame, and victimization aside:
This young lady will no doubt need to increase her prices: her field of clientele will be smaller, even if they initially flock like moths to the flame to advantage her business's ethical disadvantages.
And now that she's made "a name for herself" as the most recently martyred christian super hero, she will be able to increase her prices, to a population of right wing bigots who are notoriously "cheap."
I grew up with a lot of those types around me. And now quite dead, they never will....
But, there is value in all sorts of things, and the market will determine if her business advances or fails altogether.
She may want to consider the value of hen's eggs as compensation over "pork bellies" but then, what are eggs without bacon?
It's called "Kosher."
Peace out...tk
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Dorothy Hawkins
I have to ask: when has any vendor outside of the government-affiliated ones been FORCED to take any job?
Restaurants reserve the right to refuse service to anyone - and they sometimes do.
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Patricia Ann Gross
Apparently there is a law in New York that does not allow you refuse services to an LGBTQIA+ person/couple because of your religious beliefs. This, however, does not precude them from the 10,000 other reasons for not being able to do it, like schedule conflicts or inability to obtain the proper ingredients, or your kitchen is closed on those days, or you're taking vacation then, or ....
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Daniel Werman
You should not have to do something that goes against your personal belief or constitutional rights. I am glad she won her case.
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Tawanna Sheirka Harden
Amen
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John P Maher
BIMBO WIN FOR WHO ???
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Colleen McAllister
A business person should have the right to refuse to do business with whomever they choose. Is it right? No. But people are allowed to have their own beliefs and opinions.
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Rev. BH
Blacks Please Use Back Entrance.
Right Colleen?
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Ari Joseph Bertine
See, back in the day, at least they put that crap on a sign so everyone knew the owner was a POS. That should be the legal requirement for legally-supported bigotry, that it be advertised so people know who to avoid.
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Rev. BH
With you on that, Ari.
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Rev. Roe
Organ donation/ rare blood transfusion for you or a family member? Do we say No based on religious beliefs then?? If no how hypocritical!!
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Roy S. Thorpe
Any business has the right to refuse service to anyone! Unless they are receiving government subsidies! That's the law!
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tuppennyblue
Exactly. And she just wanted the court to confirm that, to protect business owners from lawfare attacks by hateful homosexuals. There's been plenty of such 'bake my cake' legal attacks in the past, so who can blame her?
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Patricia Ann Gross
I don't understand. Would a Christian file suit against a Kosher Jewish Deli owner that provides catering services for refusing a menu that included ham and bacon cheesburgers? It wouldn't happen, because nobody in their right mind would ask them to do it, and if they did, and the owner explained that the menu violated his religious requirements for types and selection of meats and how they are cooked and prepared, the person asking would accept it. This is what happened with this photographer. No harm, no foul. I certainly wouldn't want someone photographing my wedding that felt I was violating God's laws, so I would move on and find one who was willing to take my money. The same goes for the dressmaker, the baker, and the web designer. Maybe I am too much of a bridezilla, but the wedding is the type of special occasion that most people want only the best and demand that their vendors are "all-in." This is also why wedding events are often double or tripple the price of other events with similar services. Making everything "perfect" is a requirement, and there is no room for error.
I also don't understand how she was able to sue, since nobody complained. This type of discriminatory practice is hard to prove and hard to enforce. The photographer/caterer/baker/webmaster could easily have schedule conflicts that preclude the particular event. If I provide a service that serves a particular demographic, I would typically not expect others to ask me to help them. I understand an issue of a small town with a single provider, but that doesn't mean someone else wouldn't step up and do a one time good job. Typically, I would side with the LGBTQIA+ community on this, and maybe I'm spoiled by living in a semi-large city with a lot of options, but my take is gay/lesbian/trans wedding participants usually want only the best and don't deserve anyone at their special occasion who is looking down their nose at them.
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Tecla Caryl Loup
She didn't sue. She sought a ruling from a court.
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Rev. BH
Taking photos that violate her faith:
So I'm a news photographer assigned to a murder case. Murder of course, is no doubt against most faiths. So I choose to never photograph murders, bombings, war, suicides etc. and then sue my editor for assigning this to me.
What commandment says "thou shall not take pictures of people you don't like"?
Or, let's say at a big family gathering, one member is gay. I say "Charlie bro', you'll have to get out of the photo because of my faith." Charlie is merely gay, but I'm the bigoted jerk.
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Sean Michael Loftus
I sincerely hope that ULC starts policing these threads, and some of you should just give up your ordinations because you certainly don't speak to other people with love or anything close to it. If you don't agree with a post you don't have to be an idiot, just move along if your not grown up enough to discuss and debate your views like an adult.
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Donald G Magel
Most Christians want freedom of expression, however many christians do not want others to have the same freedom. These christians only want their behaviors approved by the government. Follow our beliefs or you will be banned from the Woolworths; or worse.
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Tawanna Sheirka Harden
Its not us as Christians that want it a certain way that WHAT GOD HAD WRITTEN SO IT"S BIGGER THEN US....
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CJC
The problem is when the refusal is accompanied with "citing her religious belief". When I was a wedding photographer a job was a job. They were fun and a great experience for everyone involved. If a person doesn't wanna do it just be nice and say you're booked that day. We don't need you pushing your beliefs and offending people. You don't wanna photograph a wedding or make a cake, be kind and not offensive. Is it so hard?
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Tawanna Sheirka Harden
A JOB was a JOB for you but as a CHRISTIAN we are to work unto the LORD that means we should never go against his word to make money if money comes to us in a sinful way then that means he did not provide it....
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Lori-Ann Neeb
Read the book of Mary Magdalene. What is sinful or not depends only on the intent of the heart of the person. Jesus told her that since he was closer to her than the others. She was more his equal in education. Many of the disciples from lower stations at that time in history were illiterate. Hence the scientific debates over who may have really written some of them. As his wife she had a lot more access to his real teachings.
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Joseph Grieco
As regards to service industries, New York allows any vendor to refuse service to any customer. Nothing in state law said she would be forced to take their business. The couple went to another photographer as soon as she said no. She just wanted to make her stance public. Now, to see if the NYS office of Secretary of State looks at her other business practices in her next license renewal.
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Paul Johnson
Where is his freedom to choose who he wants to work for find another photographyer. There is bound to be somebody else who will take their photo's. Some people like to walk in sin and some don't, thats the beautiful part about getting to pick and choose, choice. Leave them alone. Get someone in their own FAMILY to TAKE THE PHOTOS. what I have seen some of these photographer's are not always that reliable, are I may have had some bad luck but I paid for something that I never got in return. Why does this have to be news worthy. All I see; its just the enemy trying to have it his way.
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James Riggle-Johnson
The problem is that no one has complained about her not taking photos. Personally, if she wants to discriminate, that’s her business. I hope she loses business based on her religious beliefs.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Loses all her business. And can’t pay for food. And loses weight to the extent as to no longer look unattractively fat. And attracts a stalker that rapes her. And then can’t get an abortion.
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ServantOfJudgement
And atheists don't need help with their moral compass......
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James Riggle-Johnson
That’s not quite what I was thinking.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
How “loving” and “christian” of you to judge that “Some people like to walk in sin”. Sounds quite arrogant and pious to me. Oh, wait! By now the christian nationalists know the hearts and minds of all human beings. And here I was raised to think that was God’s job.
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TZTX
I think it is ridiculous to be sued because you won't be a photographer or bake a wedding cake for someone. The person(s) who wants that service can look elsewhere. I think the requestors are hoping for a big money lawsuit win.
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Reverend Paula Copp
The BAKER sued, not the gay couples. When they asked the baker, she said no. The couples said ok and went elsewhere. Nobody sued the business. I think you may have read it wrong.
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Sean Michael Loftus
No, the baker got sued by the gay couple: The Supreme Court case, decided in 2018, involved Jack Phillips, the owner of Masterpiece Cake shop, who refused to create a wedding cake for a same-sex couple, citing his religious beliefs. The couple, David Mullins and Charlie Craig, filed a complaint with the Colorado Civil Rights Commission, arguing that the refusal violated the state's anti-discrimination law. The case ultimately made its way to the Supreme Court, which ruled in favor of the baker on a narrow set of grounds, focusing on the commission's perceived hostility towards his religious beliefs.
Personally, I don't see why someone would want that on a special day like that where they couldn't support them. Just find someone who wants to do the job and then move along with life instead of crying about feelings...
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Michael D Jones
I agree. Its another attempt at gaining support for something the Bible says is wrong and against OUR first amendment right of Freedom of Religion
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Gary Michael Steele
I don’t understand why any same sex couple would want to give their hard-earned money to such people. I sure wouldn’t. I would, however, reserve the right to discriminate against such people without penalty.
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Thomas W Neiburger
If you're an independent contractor and a gay couple contacts you for a quote for your services, if you choose not to be involved in that kind of ceremony, all that needs to be said is you're not available and you lose the gig. The same thing applies if a demon worshiping couple wants you to photograph their wedding! Of coarse, on the other side of the coin, this was a great publicity stunt!
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Warren Calvin Wall
That's very simple. Post a sign that states, "This business reserves the right to refuse service to anyone." That's it. All private businesses have the right to refuse service. No reason is necessary.
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Tawanna Sheirka Harden
I Love Jesus and Jesus alone if it's not in the BIBLE we should not ever support it ......
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Tawanna Sheirka Harden
Romas 10;9;10 this is the way to be born again.....
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Lori-Ann Neeb
Even though history and archeology amount other sciences have proven that the Bible is inaccurate in many places. That should make perfect sense to intelligent people. The book was put together by a corrupt church that picked and chose what to include or not. If it were meant to be accurate all texts should have been included regardless of the church's own selfish agendas. If you want to impress me say something that doesn't start or end with "the Bible says...". We have established that the book your limit your mind to is a book published by corrupt men a few hundred years after Jesus lived. Do can't be creditable to be used as proof of anything by itself. You may have been raised to be judgmental and hateful of everyone who thinks differently. Would the Jesus you claim to hold so dear approve of conservative Christian hate?Anything based on hate or judgement is not of or from God. Man used that to try to excuse their own faults. If you are going to be that way at least own up to your own bigotry and stop hiding behind an inaccurate book to make yourself feel better.
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Jennifer Kira Lang
Perhaps they should advertise as a Traditional Christian wedding photographer and not advertise to a public they are not willing to work for.
Do they refuse to photograph buddist or Jewish weddings?
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Rev Ned
Okay? So, if an FFL dealer sells a firearm or ammo to a person who later uses it to commit a crime, is the dealer participating in the crime?
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David M Hines
I would never compel someone creative to do anything for me - just doesn’t seem like how you’d get their best efforts.
But I do make note of which businesses are owned/run by bigots so I can avoid doing business with or recommending them
So she needs to play the victim when she's not being made a victim because no one has had any issues with her turning down requests for services. Yeah, this checks out for American Christians, if you're not a victim become one.
Obviously, this brave woman just wanted a ruling so that others can't be victimised.
The Supreme Court already ruled she has the right to be a Christian bigot. She'll cry the victim again when she starts losing business because she’s gone public about her antiquated beliefs.
Your nothing but a homosexual hater, please move to France, we don't want your kind here
I have no idea what that means.
Me neither!
What did France do?
You're*
Where does it say she "cried victim"?
The fact that she sued when no one tried to make her take their picture. She doesn’t want to fall prey to those homosexuals that MIGHT come after her. I guess she’s a preemptive victim.
She didn't 'sue' anyone. She applied to the court for a ruling. She wanted to clarify the law to protect others from hateful homosexuals, trying to ruin people's businesses.
The only hate filled person on this thread is you. The vast majority of the LGBT+ community just want to live our lives without some bigots telling us we’re the hateful ones. Leave us out of your hateful rhetoric and let us live our lives in peace. Believe me. We don’t want your attitude anywhere near us. Peace be with you…
She’s done enough on her own to ruin her business.
I sincerely hope you’re joking, because if you’re not, your argument is faulty. Nobody is “victimized” in this. The photographer was asked to perform a service. She declined. She was not attacked, she was not bullied and she had no reason to sue.
Either you don't understand law, or you didn't read the story properly.
No, they read the story properly.
Who are 'they'? The comment was left by one person.
I read the article correctly, and I understand the law. The suit should have been tossed because she had no standing. Nobody was victimized. She didn’t lose anything. If I were the judge, I would have tossed the suit as frivolous.
She was protecting herself against future issues. The article stated that New York state law could impose fine up to $100,000 if someone were to sue her. She just wanted a ruling that protects her religious freedoms before she had to fight in an actual lawsuit that could have imposed drastic fines that are technically unconstitutional
Considering that under the law, she could have been fined 100,000. She was being proactive.
I am a full supporter of LBGQT+ right and that the law should not prevent them from marrying or hiring people to server at their wedding. That said, I am against laws that try to force someone to service someone against their beliefs (then again, I wouldn't want such a bigot at my wedding taking worst pictures possible and charging me for it). Some professions can be required: If someone can walk into a flower shop and order X many center pieces delivered to Y place at a certain time, florist can't ask (is gay or not wedding). It is exact same service delivered somewhere. They don't have to do attend. Creative and artistic endeavors though (photographer, asking florist to DESIGN the center pieces, etc) can be refused.
I don't like it. I think such people should be boycotted and drive out of business (esp by people refusing to do business with her) but we can't require it under the law.