A controversial Tennessee pastor is on a mission to rid the world of demonic influence, one Harry Potter book at a time.
Twilight, Harry Potter, even Ouija boards and tarot cards… it’s all “full of spells, demonism, shape-shifting and occultism,” wrote Greg Locke, pastor at Global Visions Bible Church in Wilson County, Tennessee, on his Instagram page.
And it’s all gotta burn.
“Deliverance from demons” is how Pastor Locke described the massive bonfire, which was live-streamed on Facebook and quickly gained hundreds of thousands of views.
We posted about the incident on our page (where Pastor Locke was kind enough to personally leave a comment):
But Harry Potter and Twilight weren’t the only popular books burned – more on this later.
Burn Notice
"We have a constitutional right and a Biblical right to do what we're going to do tonight," Locke exclaimed before the bonfire was lit. "We have a burn permit, but even without one a church has a religious right to burn occultic materials that they deem are a threat to their religious rights and freedoms and belief systems."
Pastor Greg Locke is no stranger to such theatrics. In 2019 he burned a book about atheism to make a point that America is a “Christian nation,” and in 2020 he refused to shut down church service, social distance, and even banned masks in his church.
This latest incident comes amid a nationwide movement to ban or burn books in schools and libraries across the country. Just earlier this month, a Tennessee school board unanimously voted to ban Pulitzer-winning Holocaust novel Maus because of its depiction of cartoon mouse nudity.
Last year, a Virginia school board voted to remove LGBTQ books from school library shelves – and then some board members said they’d like to burn them. "I guess we live in a world now that our public schools would rather have kids read about gay pornography than Christ,” one board member said.
Pastor Locke’s own book burning involved dozens of congregants gathered in the church parking lot tossing their “accursed items” – mostly Harry Potter and Twilight novels – into the flames, as Pastor Locke encourages them, literally fanning the flames.
Some couldn’t help but notice the historical comparisons.
Satanists Strike Back
Greg Locke and his congregation weren’t the only ones burning books that evening. A group of counter-protesters showed up to the event, blasting “Highway to Hell” and playing Harry Potter on a projector.
But it was a local gay couple who ruffled the most feathers. A video posted to Facebook shows Chris Hardin and his husband tossing the Bible in the pyre, as onlookers cheer, unaware that the gay couple just incinerated their holy book.
“I burned the Bible!” Hardin’s husband exclaims in the clip, before brandishing his copies of Fahrenheit 451 and Darwin’s Origins of Species and shouting “Hail Satan!”
Members of the congregation soon chased him off, but not before the couple shared a kiss.
If it seems like a lot of books are getting burned and banned lately… that’s because there are. The American Library Association recently reported an “unprecedented” level of book ban requests last year, with some 330 books challenged in the fall of last year alone. Compare that to 156 challenged books for all of 2020, and it’s clear that something’s going on.
What do you think? Do churches have a right to burn materials they deem threatening to their faith, as Pastor Locke says?
Or is book burning a practice that should be condemned regardless of one's religious beliefs?
194 comments
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? The Christian church has so many logs, that they could build cabins for all the homeless in the USA.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
A log won't fit in anyone's eye socket Matt, unless you're talking about Lincoln Logs. And just how do you propose a Lincoln Log got in someone's eye?
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
It's from the Gospel of Matthew 7:3
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I haven't been able to find anything written about someone named Matthew in any of my Wiccan or Pagan holy books.
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Brian Scott Hoff
You chose to be obtuse. How useful of you.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Carl was not being obtuse, simply sarcasm. Sarcasm that you almost certainly understood but rather than address said sarcasm directly, you chose to be obtuse yourself.
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Cheryl Pettijohn
While you chose to be acute.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
It was a somewhat acute observation.
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His Holiness Doctor C.
I choose to get drunk tonight...
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Stacey Owens
Because our culture is the culture of Cain and Able.
The churches find fault with everything. It believes it has arrived. It believes that God has given us the power to condemn.
Like Cain, he believed that his offering should be accepted because he did the most work to fulfill. Anything else was not pleasing in the sight of God.
But told him because his countenance has fallen sin (unbelief) was at the door.
We need to operate in the grace of God. The love that is shed aboard in our hearts by the Holy spirit.
Jesus came not to destroy but to fulfill.
The world needs to understand that.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
During the 1400,s, 1500’s, 1600’s — Europe’s Christians (calvinists and Roman Catholics combined) burned all the witches — especially those who were wealthy because then the church could take their property)
So Christians got rid of all the witches — by burning them alive — while forcing stuff into their mouths, to prevent them from screaming - after having been told to do so, by their loving, compassionate Christian God.
There are no longer any witches left today, because the Christian God gave the Pope the authority to get rid of all the witches, and book burnings are the Christian God’s reminder, of what he might do, if he had to create more witches (and demons) to assist in removing science books from everywhere, because nothing is more of a threat to religious mythology than science.
That MEGA-types, support book burnings, and the privatization of all public libraries and schools, shows how seri they are - in making the USA an exclusively Christian nation — just like it will be, in the Christian Heaven, where the Christian God is a dictator, there will be no democracy, no bill of rights, slavery will be legal, and if you don’t like it, you’ll be shipped off to Hell.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Uh. Witches didn’t die out. They just got better at hiding.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
You're right about that, Robert James.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
And now, in most places, we don't have anything to hide from anymore, so we're out of the broom closet again. Blessed be!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Not far into the future it will be the christians who will be going into hiding, and good Pagan religions, and others they repressed will flourish once more, in this age of Aquarius, when the souls of the ancients are incarnating again. And the likes of Christianity will never be seen again.
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Amber Fry
No, I'd say not... unless they are actually committing crimes. Most pagans today just want them to practice in peace and leave everyone else alone. I'm one so I know. I've known a few very fine Christians that don't condemn or force their religious beliefs on others. They are well worth keeping around.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Carl, you’re an idiot. Christians don’t need to go into hiding. They just need to keep their superstitions out of politics and lighten up. Im pagan, but that doesn’t mean im for theocracy.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
So Ruhnke, when someone says something offensive to you, you try to get back at them with name calling, eh? I grew out of that as a child, but I guess it takes some people a lot longer to grow up than others.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Your response to Carl calling you an idiot was interesting. You accuse him of name calling. You then smear a copious quantity of passive-aggressive insult ointment, apply it to a barb then strut about claiming how you grew out of such things. Christians say the darndest things.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Fascinating, I didn’t know my words strut to them, Charles. I’m not even Christian. Lol but okay. Project away.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I hope you aren't accusing me of being a Christian, Zerpersande! I was initiated into Wicca when I was sixteen years old, on January 1, 1980, after my year and a day of training, by my mentor and now spirit guide, a natural hereditary witch and a Gypsy whose mundane name was Herbert Clifton Woods (Uz). Gypsy was also an adept, and informed me that I was one too, as well as a natural eclectic solitairy, although I first studied and identified with the Celtic tradition, through books written by Sybil Leek. I even quit highschool in my senior year after being persecuted for being a Witch by Christian classmates, then complaining to my counselor who told me Witchcraft wasn't a religion, and she wouldn't help me. That and nothing else has made me go into the broom closet. And I will not tolerate a fool with a silly name calling me a Christian, or another one calling me a charlatan. You have no idea what you are up against, but you will. And as I so Will so mote it be!
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
No, Carl, at no time have I considered you to be a Christian. All religious people are delusional, it’s just a matter of degree. Christians often exhibit an extremely high degree of such.
As for being Wiccan, well, still delusional delusional thinking. But mentioning a lack of belief in gods, spirits, etc to a Wiccan doesn’t result in the Wiccan freaking out.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Okay, Zerpersande so I misinterpreted what you said. My bad. And no, I don't care what you or anyone else believes in. Be at peace with God (or lack thereof) whatever you conceive him to be. There is no one right way for everyone. And don't mistakenly expect all of us Wiccans to always take everything in stride. Some of us are more emotional than others, and we aren't the fools who turn the other cheek, yet we do seek not to harm, but we will defend ourselves.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I feel blessed that Ruhnke couldn't think of anything worse to call me than an idiot. Ofcourse, I hope you realize sir, that I was speaking in future tense, and partially figuratively. However, it seems apparent to me (and many others) that Christianity is on its way out. And don't be surprised if in the future (maybe in our next incarnation or two), if christians go into hiding, like us Witches once had to ( but never since my initiation in 1980 have I been in the broom closet).
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Robert James Ruhnke
There’s lots I could call you. Like charlatan and fraud, but realistically I’m thinking you’re just a troll. Not that it matters. You’re entertaining. Thank you for the levity and laughs, Elfstrom
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ronald wolfe
your response is like those who say one bad cop makes every cop bad! just because one extremist decides to burn books does not mean every Christian feels the same way or promotes the same ideas, Your taking an isolated incident and making all types of wild accusations.
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Brien
I agree with you, but I don't see any of the other christians in that perish offering any objections. Silence is not an option.
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Brian Scott Hoff
I see Brien replied with my exact sentiment. Silence is unspoken approval and silence is a choice.
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Stacey Owens
If you put a little dirt on to a plate full of food, the whole meal on the plate is dirty.
Your not going to eat the meal just because the meat looks clean. Your going to ask for a clean plate with out dirt on it.
Every believer must speak the same thing. God is not divided. We are all crucified in Christ Jesus.
Only God judges, he did not give man that kind of authority. We are to operate in the love of God, because God is love. The Holy spirit was given to believers to operate in that love (Holy Spirit).
If a believer operates in his own ability of love, it will become hostile and will operate against the love of God ( Holy Spirit). Only the Holy Spirit can apply.
The believer will find himself working out side the will of God. Yet he will say he is doing God's work.
As it is written, the believer will find out that he will be operating as the antitrust.
Burning books won't stop people from acting the way they do. The believer must truly be born again in order for Christ Jesus to be revealed in them and to the world.
Christ Jesus must be revealed. Only the Holy Spirit can accomplish it.
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John D. Partin
"Through with talking" for him might mean continuing to talk, but through with talking for me means exactly that, and I won't waste any more time on something that won't accept any evidence at all, and yet keeps asking for evidence. The proofs of God's existence are what they are, after two thousand years, and if he doesn't accept them, he just doesn't want any evidence. Goodbye and Good Riddance!!!
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Rod Gesner
While this is an attention getting act that has been used many times before and as in the case of the library of Alexandria Etc. Nazis burning and stealing whatever ...actualy can be harmfull Petty tyrants like this are only sell more books although today it is impossible to burn what is in the cloud n spread to private servers or plugin.. Be interesting to track amazon sales after a wave of burnings.. Like any perceived threat causing ammunition hoarding n inflation for the gun tootn right .. Book sales will surge after a cycle of burning.
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Rod Gesner
On the same train of thought; in slightly tounge in cheek post above? Don't Burn the Bible. It just increases sales (espcialy for motel bibles) n Profits N church membership n Tithing. Besides best to leave them in the motel drawers they might actually help some troubled Soul In their hour of desperation.
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Lionheart
Yes…someone who doesn’t understand the power of using logic and reason, and quite gullible….and obviously troubled, but will insist everyone else is. Let me think now 🤔…….Omg…. that would fit…..John Partin. 😱
🦁❤️
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
That's right, Gesner. But it has only ever upset me to find a bible in my motel rooms. And reading that crap could be just as easy to drive someone over the edge,band start a killing spree, or commit suicide. That's why whenever I find a bible in a room, before checking out I tear out the pages, and throw it in the trash. I take my ministry wherever I go.
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Mark Hannon
I question the commitment of a minister that is claiming to purge the world of demonic texts if he's just now getting around to attacking Harry Potter books. Florida has Harry Potter rides, is he planning on knocking them down?
I'd say he's just trying to con some money from the people he is easily able to con.
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Reverend Kurt
These boogeymen men only have power to wield if they have people to believe in them. Turn your back on these so called Christian Pastors /Evangelists.
Oh hang on that is impossible for a Christian isn't it? Indoctrinated from birth of their guilt, to beg or forgiveness, they are morally inadequate and need constant reminders of their supposed inadequacies,to live in fear of a phantom, above all believe , or suffer for all eternity. I can see why, and understand, we have all these Evangelist Boogeymen with their vitriolic attacks on Books, LGBT, Colour, ethnicity race, ancestry or social standing. Come on, those that still can, don't give these clown your money and adoration, they eventually will fade away..
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
You got my vote again, Neuleuf.
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gerrydiamond
Oh dear, when it comes to book burning one has visions of the repressive Nazi Germany regime which did the same action of literature which they considered subversive. So on that basis neither the Christian pastor nor the satanists have conducted themselves proportionately or rationally, in St Francis's of Assisi's prayer
Lord, make me an instrument of your peace; where there is hatred, let me sow love; where there is injury, pardon; where there is doubt, faith; where there is despair, hope; where there is darkness, light; and where there is sadness, joy.
O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console; to be understood, as to understand; to be loved, as to love; for it is in giving that we receive, it is in pardoning that we are pardoned, and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life.
Amen.
So we should have tolerance and respect for other peoples attitudes, beliefs and values and pray for people of other faiths. Not everyone will agree with us.
Pax vobiscum,
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china mayhew
the only real threat to christianity is the level of hypocrisy supported by the lion's share of christians.
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Maximillian Martin
This is just another example of christian terrorism...plain and simple. But I'm not surprised since all branches of abrahamic religions are terroristic in nature. They have nothing truly spiritual in them. But their end is near.
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Angel
In order to "burn books", you must first "purchase" these books and they are buying a ton of them. The seller's are making back. You can't control what people do after they purchase them, so why start now? Your satanic author is making a ton of money. So instead of stopping it, perhaps you start writing these books and make money of the people you dispise!!
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Alicia Szot
They could have gotten these books from garage/estate sales at a really low price, or even for free. I'm sure some of the parishioners also had one or two of these books on hand. Also, asking for donations of books would have worked. They didn't have to buy these books new in order to burn them.
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Mark Hannon
They could have had them at home because their kids already read them.
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David Arthur Lewis
Meaningless theatrics. Performance Art, like most of what religionists do. "Only JEEEZUS can save you from the Boogeyman!!! Only my snake oil cure can help you. Send money now if you want to be saved from imaginary catastrophe!"
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Jesus and Judas sitting in a tree "K-i-s-s-i-n-g"!
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Douglas Robert Spindler
It's crazy Christians doing crazy stuff like this this that makes young people not want to be associated with Christians. They look like idiots burning Harry Potter book. Remember they objected to gum, rock and roll music, and dancing saying tit was a sin and something God didn't approve of.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
They ought to print those bibles on self dissolving toilet paper. That would solve a lot of problems.
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Robin Anne Hannon
What comes to mind, is perhaps the Pastor sees the demons in himself, so in this case he is burning "demons" by burning books. We can't burn sin out. No amount of book burning will do that. We can't burn demons out either. The only thing that comes against "demons" or sin scripturally is the blood of Jesus. As well folks, there is no comparison to this and the Holocaust. That was about more than some crazy Pastor thinking he's burning demons out of a book. The Holocaust was the deliberate annihilation and destruction of six million Jews. I've seen a lot of crazy comparisons of late to the Holocaust. My suggestion read more, educate yourself more, speak to survivors of the Holocaust, and to Rabbi's. Otherwise, it sounds not just uneducated but antisemitic. I also agree with Daniel, if you don't like the book don't read it. No one is forcing you. Libraries are run by taxpayers, so yes, those people should have some say in what is in their library or not.
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Jeffrey Stoecker
I have to mildly disagree. You're right -- there will never be another Holocaust. But we have to take this seriously and that includes taking lessons from that horror. This flame has fuel. We can't allow it oxygen.
I sat down to Thanksgiving dinner 2 years ago to hear a relation's father-in-law, who had just unfolded his hands from prayer, say that what's wrong with the world is that the Inquisition ended -- that the witches and atheists had to be burned. A little dumbfounded, I said I couldn't disagree more, but didn't want to go into it at the table. He puffed out "Well, I am a Christian. What are you?" I replied that I'm an ordained minister. That made him furious. His face turned bright red. I turned from him to see the faces of the whole family looking at us -- their chins sagging a little. I asked if somebody could pass the potato salad. Dinner resumed.
That moment alone was worth getting ordained. Thanks, ULC. (-:
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
I have liked this scene from "Field of Dreams" since seeing it in 1st run in the theater. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN0_gW1SI78
I am a conservative, and will defend against banning any book.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I only use Bible's for rolling papers, and I too am a conservative...shopper.
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
Man, Carl...that kind of paper burns too fast. E-Z Widers...
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
To tell you the truth man, I prefer Zig Zag.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I saw Nice Dreams starring Cheech and Chong, Ealdormon. Is it anything like that?
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John D. Partin
"Wilson", is someone's calling himself or herself a "Christian" really enough to make them Christian in reality, instead of just in their own deluded view of theirself? That doesn't leave any room for hypocritical "Christians", who aren't living up to their alleged "faith"! That is really bizarre "thinking" on your part and a standard that isn't applied to any other group in the world! For example, would someone be accepted by you and other atheists as a real atheist, if he or she went to church every Sunday or was always praying and quoting the Bible or going out and testifying about their personal encounter with Jesus or preaching about Jesus on street corners or doing and saying things totally antithetical to atheism?!! Would anyone be accepted as a Nazi, who just loved Jews and couldn't do enough for them, and was always hanging around with Jews and praising Jewish people and Judaism, and denouncing the Holocaust of the Jews and Adolf Hitler and Nazism, no matter how much he said that was a "true Nazi"?!! Would anyone be accepted as a real Klansman, who also loved black people and hung around them all the time, and supported civil and equal rights for them, and denounced lynching and discrimination against black people, no matter how much he said that he was "a true Klansman"?!! And the same for every other group where supposed "believers" in it or "members" of it acted uncharacteristically. The answer is a big whopping NO!!! Only some "Christians" are always accepted by you and other easily convinced people as "Christians" just on their word alone BECAUSE!!! IT IS WHAT YOU WANT AND NEED TO BELIEVE THAT CHRISTIANS ARE!!!! But Jesus defined what Christians actually are and the standards that they have to live up to in order to be Christians, NOT YOU!!! "By their fruits you will know them" and "By this will all men know that you are my disciples: if you have love for one another" are the standard of actual Christianity, not some people's saying that they are "Christians". I will go even further than you are and say that not only book burning (like the Nazis) isn't truly Christian, but also the burning of people during the Inquisition and the witch trials weren't Christian, and fake TV evangelists and their phony "faith healings" aren't Christian, and their asking for donations for their "ministries" from poor people, so that they can buy jets and live in mansions and drive in limousines and make religion a money making racket isn't Christian, and that anything other than loving your neighbor as yourself and doing unto others as you would have others do unto you isn't Christian!!! You aren't any harder on phony Christians than Jesus Himself was when He said: "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father in Heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out devils in your name, and do many wonderful works in your name?' Then I will tell them, Depart from me, you workers of iniquity! I never knew you". In other words, He doesn't just want superficial and pretentious actions, but genuine love and faith in our hearts for Him and works proceeding from that. If you want to be spiteful toward phony "Christians" without also attacking genuine Christians, who haven't taken part in any book burnings, since Bible burnings would hurt inoffensive and innocent people and make you the same as the Nazis and those other book burners, try to find a way that would hurt only phony "Christians" and leave genuine Christians alone and go for it or, better yet, bring phony "Christians" out of their phoniness into genuine Christianity. You can't fight anything with more of the same (they burn books and you burn books in retaliation, etc.), since that doesn't fight it, but only contributes to it. Nobody takes a flame thrower to put out a house fire, if they aren't crazy, since that just makes a bigger fire. You fight anything with its opposite, not more of the same!! If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem! Stop being part of the problem and fight hate and book burnings and other negative things with love and book cherishings (of the right books!!) and positive things, as defined by a loving God, not by unloving people!!
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Minister Wilson
Yep, I knew it,
The whole these arent "real" christians shtick....
Well, hey John what makes you a "real" christian...?
Are you against slavery John, Why ?
It is not your bible that told you that. The point here is that every single instance anyone shows you the exact contrary nature of staking your believes on something that cannot be proven, everything becomes open to interpretation...
Trump, says he is a christian and you and him agree on taking away a womens choice based on an egg.
You think that the universe is operated by some mind instead of just conceeding the point that you just dont know. These are self proclaimed Christians just like you and probably agree with you on virtual every social topic under the sun.
How dare you seperate yourself from them for they is your people, your brothers, your like minded ken folk. It just so happens that their whole book burning thing is rather embarrassing to you so you choose to claim that the arent "real" christians. With a sprinkling of cherry picked bible versus (because you know the real bible versus that god really meant right?)
For several months, you have claimed that I was not a real minister, isnt slavery condoned by your bible, well that is not love so god never approved it. And was also apparently to weak to stop or change it in other way than people running around making excuses for its inclusion.
Enough John your Nazi's are Christians too, your Jihadist are christians also.
You even claim that god is about love but not if same sex couples want to marry. Well did that come from god or men John...You have no clue, but you act like you know and understand because that is your opinion.
So, save it
And by the way, if gays are choosing to sin, you still have not addressed your own homosexual tendencies and offered any useful advise on how to change that have you, that is what I thought.
These Nazi's are your christian brothers, even if you are embarrassed by their behavior because you talk just like I imagine they would, with the same reasoning and all, interpreted just they way they intended, sound fimiliar...
So, please tell me some more about the Judeo-Christian version of god specifically is running the whole universe with its mind, because cars cant drive themsleves, and without proof of course, stop trolling my friend...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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John D. Partin
"Wilson", poor thing, you always do your damnedest to "defeat the truth of God" and always fail miserably, even if you think that you are "winning", because worldly "wisdom" is always defeated by divine Wisdom and can't ever possibly be anything other than defeated by it!! That can't be understood or seen by you because your eyes, mind, and heart are blinded by "the god of this world" (Satan), but it is still the truth and your not seeing it doesn't make it not the truth, and we just have to look down on you and consider your very restricted understanding in your statements and take that into account. You can't help yourself and are doing the best that you can do, until the Holy Spirit opens your heart, mind, eyes, and ears to receiving and accepting the truth. God is Victorious and atheists and your god Satan are LOSERS!!! You really in your heart know that, too!! Amen and amen!! Glory to His holy name!!!
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Nathaniel Robert Hunt
John D. Partin we Pagans worship Gods far older than your god or satan, as is our protected religious right . Many of us left your religion because , first of the hypocrisy and abuse many of us suffered at the hands of church going "christians" , most of us found we got nothing from your "god" no answers, no help, not even a feeling of him being there no matter how hard we prayed , but the moment we turned to other Gods , as well as nature itself we got an answer
And praise to the multitude of Baal's of Nature-
John D. Partin
Nathaniel Robert Hunt, God existed before He was even known by the ancient Israelites, since Moses had to ask Him what His name was, and so before all the Pagan gods, and His existence was never dependent on people's knowing about it, which benefits them, not Him. There is hypocrisy in the Christian church, the same as everywhere else from people not living up all the time to their standards or else there wouldn't be cases of Pagans' disowning and repudiating Pagans or that happening in every other group of people. But it makes no sense to judge Christianity by people who aren't really following it, instead of by people who are following it. If you got nothing from God, at least part of that could be your own fault and not the fault of God or hypocrite "Christians" because you didn't come near enough to God, so that He would come near to you, and because of unrealistic expectations of what He would do for you. Other people have gotten a great deal from God and from being Christians, and didn't let false "Christians" drive them away and wrongly claim the Church for themselves. So, our attitude determines what we get from God. "Your faith has healed your servant" as Jesus told the Pagan Roman soldier who asked Jesus to heal his servant, and even praised that Roman's faith, saying "I have not found such faith among the children of Israel"! According to your faith, let it be done unto you. Jesus couldn't heal in some places because of their little faith. As for Pagan gods answering your prayers where you say the Christian God wouldn't, Satan will give some people apparent answers to prayers through Pagan gods in order to lure them away from God, just as a drug dealer makes taking his drugs look attractive to children or others in order to get them to want them and to hook them on those drugs and get their money. Satan isn't just a Judeo-Christian being, but is a name that is representative of evil in every religion and culture or society. It doesn't matter what name you call him (Satan, Loki, Baal, Lucifer, etc.), since those are just different names for the same thing. Elijah showed that Baal isn't more powerful than God when he had a contest with the priests of Baal on whether God or Baal could bring fire down from heaven first to set an altar ablaze. So, he told the priests of Baal to go first, and they went crazy, chanting and cutting themselves with knives and dancing around for hours, and nothing was happening. "Maybe, he is sleeping" Elijah joked. Then, it was Elijah's turn and he told them to soak his altar with water to overflowing, and then prayed for God to send fire down from heaven, and the fire came down and consumed Elijah's and the priests of Baal's altars, and destroyed the priests of Baal!! The Pagan gods also didn't destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, but God did that! If God weren't more powerful than devils, Judeo-Christian exorcisms couldn't drive out devils. Some religions might be really worshipping God under other names and appearances because God loves everyone and wouldn't have left them without any light or touch of His presence at all, but some of God, obviously, isn't as good as the most of God. Gandhi was a Hindu, but still had the spirit of Christ and God with him. God just doesn't want people falling for the lies of con men gods and goddesses, which are found among them, the same as among human beings, and that is why He says to put no other gods before Him, in any of His manifestations. Our worship doesn't add anything to God, but only benefits us, which is His concern. Satan can appear as an angel of light to deceive and mislead people, since he wouldn't deceive as many people if he always appeared to them only as Satan.
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Minister Wilson
John
I have not once called you out of your own name, or personally attacked your person. This seems to be a tatic that you rely on. Instead of using sound arguments and reason you tend to resort to name calling and childish tantrums.
I wonder if this is what you believe that Jesus/God would do?
Thank you, for making this point clear to everyone...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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John D. Partin
"Wilson", have you never heard of Jesus' calling the scribes and Pharisees whited sepulchres and a brood of vipers and asking them "How shall you escape damnation?"?!! Have you never heard of His driving the moneychangers out of the Temple and telling them "This is a house of prayer and you have made it a den of thieves"?!! Weren't those personal attacks on those people because of the wrong things that they were doing, which wouldn't have happened if they hadn't been doing those wrong things?!! I'm just following Jesus' example with those people toward you, and so since it wasn't wrong for Him to do that toward them, it isn't wrong or inconsistent for me to do that toward you. Knock off your wrong-doing and I won't make any more personal comments about you! Besides which, you have made personal comments about me, even though you don't admit it, as usual. Practice what you preach and stop having your childish tantrums or stop talking about it!!
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Minister Wilson
Hey John,
You're not jesus...
If you want to follow his example then heal the sick, walk on water, or stop storms...If you can't do that, what makes you believe you have the moral or ethical authority to talk like you do...(You personality and behavioral disposition are occasionally very arrogant because you speak about somethings with a degree of certainty that you have not shown to be factual).
For example, "God existed before He was even known by the ancient Israelites, since Moses had to ask Him what His name was.."
That makes no sense john only to you or others who think like you like the book burners:) Prove what your claiming or at least say that is what you believe because Moses saying this or that does not prove anything.
Pointing out incoherrent reasoning and thinking addresses behavior and the content of your words. Which are open and susceptible to scrutiny.
Again, show me where I called you a name, all the correspondences are here so it should be easy to find right John.
Stop talking and start proving what you are claiming. That behavior is acting like a troll so stop acting like one. See I didnt say you are a "troll" I said you're acting like a troll...
There is a difference
And if pointing out inconsistencies in your thinking and rationale is "wrong doing" then the only people you think are right think and act just like you would.
I wont agree with sloppy thinking or beliefs pushed passed the point of plausibility and proof, so I will gladly be "wrong", according to you.
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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John D. Partin
"Wilson", you said "you sound completely foolish" to me in your post of February 12 in NJ Officials Tell Chic-Fil-A: Get Out!, and that is another of your insults of me. Of course, you will "justify" it to yourself, as you do every thing else that you say or do because you operate on the double standard of only what people say against you is wrong, but not what you say against anyone else and expect, unrealistically, not to have anything said to you in return for what you say against them. That is why I won't waste any more time talking with such a dishonest person as yourself and expect you to also be through with talking with me, as you said that you were, and never to receive any more posts from you. Goodbye and good riddance!!
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Minister Wilson
Fine John,
Again, please listen...
If a person "sounds" foolish what does that mean?
Better yet, what is being pointed out as a point of contention?
There is no double standard here my friend, you are claiming that if someone says that "sounds" foolish, your think it is the same as saying
You are a "fool"...
The english language makes this assertion wrong not me
There is a difference, John, it makes sense that you might struggle with that..
As far as I am concerned we can agree to disagree like I have said from the begining, but the next time you want to debate someone you should ground your arguements in facts, rather than your personally held beliefs.
Take care,
Minister Wilson
PS> if you break this agreement, with me, your post are then fair game...In other words, mind your manners, John (to me and to others)...
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John D. Partin
"Wilson", you can (and will) indulge in as much of this hair splitting as you want, to be able to insult people and then claim later that you are "innocent" and "didn't insult them at all", but that isn't going to fly with me or anyone other than yourself, once again "justifying" yourself to yourself, by sneakily implying that someone is a fool by saying that they "sound foolish", instead of coming right out and calling the person a fool, which allows you to backtrack, dodge, and obfuscate when confronted about it. Subtle and snobbish games about what is being done or said have never changed the reality of what is actually being done and said or the Pharisees wouldn't have been the whited sepulchres and brood of vipers that they actually were because of their similar games, and so on for all the other game players throughout history!! No matter what you contend that "the English language says about it", again to "justify" yourself, that is merely the official story and understanding of the matter, which, as we all know, is often very different from the actual reality of what is going on in the world apart from and underneath that cover and camouflage. Worldly people, especially, don't live by the rules that they claim "to live by", but merely use them as a cover for what they actually do and say!! Nobody says that somebody "sounds foolish" if they don't think that they are a fool in reality, since that would be illogical and inconsistent, and like calling someone a racial or religious epithet-like term without actually IMPLYING!!!! (for you in the cheap seats!!) that he is that racial or religious epithet!! I guarantee you that the self-respecting recipient of that epithet-like term isn't going to make that distinction and will probably be very angry and beat you down over it or directly insult you right back. Implying is how people get around this matter of directly insulting others and sneakily insult them, in order to be able to deny it later and have their cake and eat, too!! Now, that your dodge has been exposed and disposed of, we can get back to the matter of your not keeping your word that you were through talking with me and actually being through with talking with me and true to your word and an honest person, for a change. I'm not interested in wasting any more time talking with anyone who has hardened their heart and closed their "mind" to any evidence of God's existence or anything else that they are incapable of even considering, no matter how much you claim that you "aren't hard hearted or closed-minded", since the proof is in the pudding of what you are, not in your words, which you all say!! You also don't want to read the truth of God from me. That leaves no basis for a conversation!! I don't need to "mind my manners", since I have only been telling you the truth, which you merely falsely "interpret" again as "not minding manners", to "justify" yourself and blame others and the rest of your games!! The bottom line: keep your word and be through with talking with me, as you said that you were, or admit that you are a liar!! Don't you break this agreement!!! Again, Goodbye and Good Riddance!!!
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Minister Wilson…. In reading Parton’s last response to you above I found something very useful. All you have to do is tell him you’re going to stop talking to him and he'll throw in the last word, ask you to stick to your word, and tell you good riddance.
Does he stick to that? On the off chance that it does I’ll give it a try…
Hey Parton! ! Bugger off, I’m done with you.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
FYI — Back in the 1980’s, as I recall, ULC founder, Bishop K.B. Hensley, was interviewed on “60 Minutes” about the ULC’s Doctor of Divinity” (of which I’m a proud recipient).
The “60 Minutes” interviewer, told Bishop Hensley, that the ULC’s DD was worthless—to which Bishop Hensley responded “no DD is worth anything, therefore the ULC’s DD is worth just as much as any other DD — and that’s that.
There are only two kinds of people on this Earth — those who have a ULC DD, and those who don’t.
And I’m proud that I have my DD, especially when Jehovah’s Witnesses and LDS’ers, come a knocking on my door,
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'm very quick to tell those people who have knocked on my door that I'm content in my faith, and my religion is Wicca. None of them have ever come back a second time, and it hasn't happened in a long time, so I think they spread the word. I am also sometimes seen whering my ULC aMinister's cap, which might have something to do with it. And I'll never let a Bishop preach in my church. As a ULC god, it's my way, or the highway. And I don't care what my underlings ULC Bishops and saints think about that. Can't you tell that we don't care who appointed you as what. We only want you to come down from your fictitious high horse, and join the party, on the same level as the rest of us. And we don't care what the ULC sanctions. You're the only one kissing their asses. They do not write on this blog, we do. And if you don't want us badmouthing you, you need to shape up.
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MIKE
Well said!
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Carl; you appear to be proud to announce to anyone who gives a pope’s poop about whatever you have to say, that “you’re content in your faith” - which suggests that no one else can tell you something you don’t know know.
Which suggests, you’re a MAGA’er, who gets your science from the St.James Bible, and would feel right at home at a KKK meeting.
If I had the authority, as a ULC Bishop, I’d excommunicate you from the ULC, and send you to the local GOP Evangelistic group where you should feel right at home.
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John D. Partin
Dusenberry, you have, obviously, mistaken the rest of us for people who care anything your fantasies about what you would do if you had the authority to excommunicate anyone from the ULC and have mistaken the ULC for the Catholic Church!! Because you don't have the authority and never will and this isn't the Catholic Church. The ULC would be in very bad shape if it had something like you in authority, who could excommunicate anyone, but would be in a little better shape if you would just excommunicate yourself!! You have, also obviously, never read any of Carla's posts here, if you think that she is a MAGAer, gets her science from the King James Bible, or would feel right at home either in a KKK or GOP Evangelistic group, and if you are that far off base about her, you can't know anyone else here any better and don't know what in the Hell you are talking about with us, either!! Nobody can tell your opinionated self anything and so you are just judging other people by yourself!! Knock it off!!
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John D. Partin
There is a chap here Dusenberry, whose taste in his titles' choosin' vary: The Archbishopissimo? The Supreme Pontiff Kiss-His-Toe? Or just The Great Lord Goosin' Fairy?
He thinks if he sends in more money, He'll get himself one that's a honey, but The Pope has been taken, like Grand Cyclops and Kraken, and that doesn't leave much for him, Sonny!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
You couldn't be more wrong about me, Dusenberry. If you had been reading my comments on this blog for the last few years you would know that I'm not at all prejudiced, andam all for eqal rights. Right now, and most of the time, I'm wearing an African men's Dashiki shawl, over my clothes. I don't believe in any bible, and it is well known in this blog that my religion is Wicca, and I have never, nor will I ever vote for Donald Trump, whose guys I hate with a passion! It sounds to me like you're talking off the wall without researching any of it, making up things as you go along, along with that silly shit about being a ULC bishop. I've been writing on this blog a lot longer than you, and it will take a hell of a lot more than the likes of you to run me off, you moron.
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Kristine McGuire
Speaking as a Witch, and a person who values literature and the free dissemination of knowledge, I repudiate Greg Locke and his ilk. While banning and burning are nothing new, it's disturbing how such actions and displays are on the rise. I commend the protestors, especially the bravery of that couple who stood toe to toe against the madness.
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Shanya Emmeline Howard
Stinks of unholy issues 1. Those “godly” church People had to BUY the supposedly evil books to be burned… increasing the wealth of the people who they supposedly aren’t for.
- They made sure that it was filmed and lived streamed.
The whole thing stinks like a bad publicity stunt to get money and attention.
Is burning things bad? Yes. Bad for the environment and not fabulous for the soul.
Can others burn whatever you hold dear? Yes. It’s why it’s wise to remember that most things are replaceable and the lord is everywhere.
Unfortunately priests like this one drives people away from the faith because he has none himself- evidence by the stunt that causes hatred and division instead of peace and understanding
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Greg Locke is not a priest. Gey your facts straight.
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Shanya Emmeline Howard
The fact that you took a single word that is easily exchanged with another and understood by every other adult speaks volumes about your faith and following in Christ’s foot steps. I honestly suggest that you take a long look in a mirror, pick out any wood you might see, brother Cain before you take that last righteous step.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
It does help to vent. Like Tears For Fears once said, "Shout, shout, let it all out! These are the things I can do without. Come on, I'm talking to you, come on".
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Ellie_Loves
This smells of 1930's Germany. The rise of white supremacy in this nation is disgusting and the United States is not a christian nation by any means. This guise of "demonic books" is just another attempt to spark fear and create that mob mentality by a power mad extremist claiming to be a christian doing the work of God. He's a charlatan fueled by hate and violence. Though I do not support book burning, I applaud the couple who tossed a bible into the fire.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Refreshing to see someone else that understands the founding fathers had no intention of the US being a ‘christian nation’. This is especially true of Jefferson who made several very derogatory comments about the Christian religion.
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Z
Of course anyone in America can buy any book they wish and do whatever they want with it. They even made sure to get a burn permit and good for them. No law has been broken here and no one has been hurt.
At the same time, book burning as a symbolic practice is absolutely worthy of condemnation. To celebrate the destruction of knowledge and ideas, even ideas one does not agree with, is the pathetic act of deeply weak and insecure people.
Lastly, the article mentions the banning of books in public schools. This is a very, very different issue from religious book burnings. One is an act of illegal oppression by the state; the other an expression of religious belief. I happen to think that this particular expression of religious belief is stupid and lionization of ignorance, but again, they're not hurting anybody and can do whatever they like with their own property.
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Victoria Vaughan
Book banning/burning is a great subject to reflect upon. In the 1980's I taught English & Reading in Jr Hi and High School in Dell City, Texas, where there was no laundromat and the grocery store burned while I was there. You had to drive 90 miles to El Paso to do any kind of shopping. But there were 4 or 5 bars, one of them infamous for a shooting over a barstool.
I had just discovered Bless Me, Ultima, by Rudolfo Anaya and loved it. So, I decided to do a selective reading of it to my 8th, 9th, and 10th graders. It's a very New Mexico Hispanic culture story. The Anglo kids were intrigued, and the Hispanic kids glowed. My classes, for the first time (and these kids had been together since kindergarten) were talking about cross-cultural issues. When one of the football players admitted that his abuela, his grandmother, was a curandera, the interest ticked up a hundred-fold. It was so beautiful to be a part of it.
Then, about the 3rd day, there was an emergency School Board meeting at 7:30 in the morning and I was told to stop. That was my first experience of censorship. The second was even weirder.
By State guidelines I was required to teach Mythology to the Freshmen whose self-appointed spokeswoman and Sheriff's daughter had announced to me Day One that I couldn't teach them anything, that they didn't like me, and they wanted their old teacher back. I was floored. I spoke with the principal, who had become a confidant and friend, about this situation. Kay admitted that this was indeed the class from hell and had been since they started school.
Well, there were no books and few resources for teaching mythology in Dell City. With Kay's approval, I put together a (to me) beautiful unit that was so multi-leveled (for its time) that I still think about it. I was an old D&D player, still had my characters and dice sets. We were going to learn how to write a story introducing our character to the gods & goddesses of mythology which would involve research, thoughtfulness, working in groups, and so much more. I wanted them to understand that their characters couldn't be superheroes and that by rolling the 18-sided (I think) dice, they would have to create characters with physical weaknesses, emotional drawbacks, mental capacities, etc. Kay was in the classroom the first day and was thrilled that when I put them into groups, this recalcitrant group of kids she'd known since they were babies were actually engaged.
Until the School Board met at 7:30 to shut me down again. The kids came in at 8:30 so excited. "What are we gonna do today, Teacher?" We were all terribly disappointed when I told them that for the rest of the year, I'd been ordered not to teach anything but grammar and basic reading, regardless of the class grades, ages, abilities, or State mandates.
I guess I should add that School Board members were primarily members of the Pentacostal Church and ruled the town. That church brought more drama to my first year of teaching than you can imagine. I've thought a great deal about that year during these repressive days, how the terrified parents of my students actually told me, after I allowed the Sophomores to choose research projects, if they'd wanted their kids to know about drugs, teenage pregnancy, date rape, all that stuff, they wouldn't be living in so remote a location.
Now it's adults about the age those Dell City kiddos would be now who are taking to the streets over To Kill a Mockingbird, Twilight, Harry Potter. I never saw it coming, but what I did learn was that creativity and public education shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath. I didn't teach English in public school again.
All this is to say: 1) this isn't new, it's just more rabid; 2) there is a very small, rabid minority in our country who are like the one kid in class who takes all the teacher's energy and everyone else pays for it. "God" help us all. Vicky Vaughan
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John Anderson
Obviously, these "christians" have never read the bible in it's entirety. Otherwise they would force the removal of several books, not the least being the Song of Solomon.
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Rev Nolan
Fanatics! I like and believe in forensic discussions.
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gerrydiamond
Oh dear, burning books is the action of fascist organisations that have no tolerance or respect for others attitudes beliefs and values. During these challenging times we need to remember the words of St Francis of Assisi's prayer, which encourages to understand others than try to be understood by others, and exercising compassion and proportionality as neither the pastor nor the satanists covered themselves in glory by burning books.
Lord, make me an instrument of your peace; where there is hatred, let me sow love; where there is injury, pardon; where there is doubt, faith; where there is despair, hope; where there is darkness, light; and where there is sadness, joy. O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console; to be understood, as to understand; to be loved, as to love; for it is in giving that we receive, it is in pardoning that we are pardoned, and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life. Amen.
Pax vobiscum
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
This book burning, reminds me of This Is Heresy.
They shall lick the dust like serpents Hold your tongue Get thee behind me
Your church makes me vomit Into the vertiginous abyss Enfeebled by vice Dear God allow me to show gratitude For my fortunate eyes of truth
Lord, lord, how long shall the wicked... Lord, how long shall the wicked... triumph on earth? Lord, how long shall the wicked triumph on earth?
These loathsome parasites, that cling to the cross The cloth and the skin Soaked in the blood of men Not the body of Christ
This is heresy This is heresy
I admit in no way approval
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Nicholas J Page
Whatever next how about burning your cheque books and money
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Let's start with your check book, Nicholas. If it makes you feel good after, we'll consider following suit.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
As a matter of fact Nicholas, your psychiatrist told me to tell you thàt he wants you to burn your checkbook.
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Minister Wilson
Hey
Where is John Partin when we need him. Please, explain how Christian book burning is not just like the Nazis?
I am sure that everyone here can see the parallels taking place and defenders of these actions having nothing moral to say about it, but hey, they got their permits, so that gives them the right to burn books that they consider demonic.
However, not one state, court, or police department, etc. has ever asked these groups with such "strongly held beliefs", to prove, the veracity of their claims.
No, as a society we think it politie to let others reality and mental distortions dictate the conversation and allow them deference for their weird, strange, and cult like ideas. Why?
You know a person told me before that they thought people really only learned in two ways; 1. talking and reason, or 2. shear blinding violence.
While, I think there may be a third option and a tit-for-tat strategy might work best. Gathering up a truck load of bibles and video tape burning them every week, month, or day. Perhaps, just perhaps, enough people would be disgusted with the idea, but I am not holding my breath.
So, special note to Mr. Partin, let me guess these folks here are'nt "real Christians" because God is against burning books, right?
Save it John, you wanted Nazis well here you go, "zeig heil" my friend (show healing) and God bless, I think...Christian Nazism or Jihadism should be no more tolerable just because your a white evangelico pastor, hate is hate. But in a free society, it seems to have posed a insurmountable roadblock for notions of decency.
I suggest a massive weekly bible burning, video tapped, and just watch all the good, tacit silent folks, come unglued...
Take care everyone,
Minister Wilson
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Lucy Carrasquillo
The only spiritual comment given to me by the Holy Ghost is "WWJD" YES! What would Jesus do? Of course, he lost his cool with the money changers in the Temple. But I don't recall any burning of scriptures on scrolls, or any other pagan materials that existed during his lifetime - and there were millions. Instead of acting out with violence and fire, now, just pray these pagan/atheist and Satanic behaviors stay away from you, loved ones, and friends, even your haters and naysayers. Check out the Book of Revelation and see when the Lord will react to the ungodly. It'll happen after he gathers those who believe in him. Believers, right now that have passed away or those in the future, go immediately into the presence of the Lord [Philippians 1:19-23 and 2 Corinthians 5:6-8] The last plan of action Christians DON'T NEED is a counter attack from the multitudes of non-believers worldwide. God has already chosen those he will gather to be in his eternal kingdom. Praise the Lord. Amen.
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Brian Scott Hoff
I'm glad you think burning books might be a bad idea. And, I'm glad to hear that you think violence is a bad way to improve stuff. That said, I read your post and your thoughts about WWJD. It strikes me funny that you seem very focused on the New Testament and not a great deal of the Old. When I read the Old I get a weird sense of a jealous, maniacal God who throws temper tantrums, contradicts himself repeatedly, ad nauseum. What I don't understand is how one separates the Old & the New. Both describe God. One seems far gentler and easier to attribute as being good while the other seems insane. Yet even Jesus said he was not here to abolish the old laws. Seems clear to me that Jesus didn't intend for us to forget the Old Testament. Yet your post sounds as if you are uncomfortable with the old stuff. (And I agree, that stuff is nuts). Yet the same Jesus you discuss is the one that said the old still matters. How do you explain this?
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Daniel Gray
ALL of them are wrong. If you dont like the book then simple thing...DONT BUY IT. THAT is your personal choice. Now as for removing the other books from the library, THAT is paid for by the taxpayer and as such it is the TAXPAYERS right to say what books should be available in a library they are paying for. This isnt rocket science nor the major problem that some people on this thread are trying to make it out to be. Use some common sense for once people
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Robert James Ruhnke
All those books should be available regardless what half the tax payers want. Wanna know how atrocities are prevented? Reading uncomfortable subject matter like Maus. Conservatives crow all day about history being forgotten when they haven’t even read a fraction of it. Probably something to do with the fact western civilization has been behind much of the world’s woes since the time of Pagan Rome. 🤷🏻♂️
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Daniel Gray
Sorry its called majority rules. if the majority of the taxpayers who fund the place where the books are at want them removed, then they are removed. If you want these books you are more then free to go purchase them yourself.
Um sorry again as you clearly dont know history, Communists and Athiests have killed more people and done more damage in their short lifetimes then ALL the other western civilizations COMBINED. Heck Mao and Stalin and Pol Pot have murdered and damaged civilization to the tune of over 20 million deaths, and not one of them were western civilizations. Try and stay on topic.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Lol capitalism is a few centuries older than communism. Capitalists are responsible for the transatlantic slave trade and the genocide of natives. Both of which has a body count higher than either Stalin or Mao. Lol see what I mean. If you actually studied history without blinders and biases, you’d know more than you think you do now. Communism is a product of western civilization. It’s just scorned by capitalists.
Also. Christianity is 2000 years old. Centuries older than modern atheism. When Christians weren’t murdering each other they were murdering those they merely suspected of being witches or even more preposterous werewolves. So no. Communists and atheists don’t have a body count anywhere near that high. Again. All you’re doing is demonstrating your ignorance of history. Demonstrating that to many conservative Christians that blessed ignorance is hard truths.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
You have a poor understanding of the slave trade. Slavery was practiced by American Indians so your statement is way off historically. Capitalists are not responsible for the transatlantic slave trade. Muslims were practicing it before capitalists started buying slaves. Always blame the white people for everything. And to say that Christians and capitalists are responsible for more deaths then communists is so full of misinformation. I can guarantee that far more people have died under communism and fascism then in any other period of human history. Some of you anti colonial bigots make me sick to even be a fellow human being. To compare a system that enslaved and still does enslave people under a totalitarian ideology makes me shudder. I can see where your sympathies lie. So go live in China or Venzuela and Cuba and shut the hell up.
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Marion Wolfe
Boy you sure got suckered big time, didn't you.
At least now everyone here knows you're to gullible to be taken seriously
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
None of that crap you brought up has anything to do with this topic, Ruhnke. Do you only use use this blog verbalize your condemnations, since nobody in your real life ever pays any attention to you?
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Daniel Gray
And not picking on them but Pagans and druids and all sorts of other religions that are far older then Christianity were killing off supposed enemies and each other for believing a slightly different version then the others, every religion has done this so for you to pick out just one and then try to make them the ultimate boogyman is a clear sign of low intelligence and ultimate ignorance of how things actually happened.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Comment has been removed.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Western Civilization covers more than just religious group, and more than just one empire. You’d know that, IF, you understood what I was saying. The only ultimate boogeymen im aware of are men with domination based agendas. It just so happens that for the last 500-2000 years were those most guilty of that are Christians who at sword or gunpoint forced their views onto others. So for many people’s ancestors, yeah, I’d say they’d be bogeymen. Maybe if you read more than one book, or read books that weren’t so heavily biased towards right leaning ideologies you’d know. Calling into my intelligence when you’re working with skewed views is just silly.
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Daniel Gray
And eastern civilization has been around a whol lot longer and there is more then enough proof of them committing genocide and massacres, so what exactly is the point you are trying to make, if you even have one
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Robert James Ruhnke
The last Eastern Empire to try and span the entire globe prior to the 20th century was Genghis Khan. They have indeed committed atrocities. And the east has some of the oldest civilizations on the earth. I’m not saying they didn’t or haven’t. You trying to say that atheists and communists have killed more people than Christians is ignorant and one sided. My point is actually very simple. History repeats itself because one sided individuals like yourself don’t see whole side of history. Casting others as villains others whilst having the same villainous attitudes they posses. It’s the reason why when people erase history, by say getting rid of information they disagree with, is only doing themselves disfavor. That’s what I was getting at. I just chose the scenic route to get there. Thank you, and bless your heart for allowing me to do so.
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Daniel Gray
And are you REALLY going to try and make your claim when Kahn went and surrounded the cities and villages and then demanded surrender and if even one person refused, the hoard would surround the village firing into it with arrows and murder EVERYTHING that walked or breathed air an then set fire to the place? SO are you trying to cover up for them? And they didnt have a religion.
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Tom
The Genghis Khan actually did practice Tengrism and many religions were practiced within the Mongol empire. https://idsa.in/idsacomments/genghis-khan-and-india-mongolia-relations_pstobdan_110716
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Brian Scott Hoff
Daniel, Daniel, Daniel. Religion (and Christianity) have been around a long, long time. Not sure your "20 million" is a big enough number to "cover" the lives destroyed or lost due to religion or the Western World if you will. (And that's me pretending your statement is correct). People have been killing each other a long time. What you did was like saying "Yea... that's sort of bad but whatabout..... that's more badder". Bad is Bad. Especially at the numbers being bandied about. Saying something is worse isn't really helping anything. If religion has problems it would help if religious folks would simply agree and want to change it. If they don't then it's not likely to get better without forces outside it and we know how much religious folks love being told what to do by non-religious folks. Clean up your house and then there's nothing to see.
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Daniel Gray
Sure it is, check and see for yourself and stop trying to blame religion for your imagined slights
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Ruhnke, have you ever considered moving to the mid or far east. It sounds like you might fit in better there. Most of the rest of us are content in thinking that the United States Of America is the greatest nation on Earth, and not hashing up shit about the past, which incidentally, is gone forever. All we ever have is what's going on right now. And that's what these topics they give us are about.
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Brian Scott Hoff
Paraphrase for you, Carl. It sucks talking about let alone admit that our nation started out on the wrong side of "all men being equal". White men - yes. Woman or other colors - not so much. It's a lot more pleasing to say "We are amazing" and "USA, USA, USA". That's fun and let's me ignore real history and pretend that doesn't mean anything, to anyone, anymore.
Did I get that about right? Did I get close to what "Carl" thinks?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
No Brian, you didn't get close to what this proud to be an American thinks, but good try. Regardless of the evil ways of some people in the past, overall I'd say the USA has become a great nation, and a place overall to be proud of being from. If you don't think so, you're welcome to leave.
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MIKE
Book burning is an act of fear and ignorance . The Nazis did it, the Soviet Communists did it, the Chinese Communists did it, even the catholic church did it, and much was lost. Book burning is a sinful act. The book is not evil! What's next?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Unless you're standing in a pile of burning books Dennis, it's not something to be afraid of. Just think of all the money you'd be saving, by not having to buy rolling papers. Just toke it up, man!
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MIKE
Clearly you missed the point!
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
One of my fellow ULC ministers (I’m actually a bishop) claimed that he knew that an actual historical Jesus actually existed, because of the writings of Tacitus — who supposedly wrote several hundred years after an actual historical Jesus was supposed to have actually existed.
Which is at best, what our legal system would classify as “inadmissible evidence” — based on here-say, allegations, and no possible way of determining how, when, and from whom Tacitus got his information about Jesus.
That Christian mythology is using such totally unreliable sources as Tacitus as a basis to de-mythologize Christian mythology is obvious.
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John D. Partin
William Dusenberry, nobody, except you, here cares that you are a "bishop" or "a canonized saint" or any of the other things that you keep flinging in our faces about yourself because those things, quite obviously, don't make you any smarter or more of an authority than anyone else and only prove that even a "bishop, saint, etc." can be wrong and not know what in the Hell he is talking about!! It is time that someone told you the truth about yourself because you are too wrapped up in your own ego and self-centeredness and self-importance to ever figure that out for yourself and so I'm very happy to be the one to tell you!! You just got all those things handed to you out of pity or condescension or whatever else because you didn't actually earn any of them and don't practice the humility that is required of an actual bishop or saint!! You aren't more knowledgeable about Tacitus than college professors whom I have quoted elsewhere in the blog who stated that Tacitus routinely mentioned if any item in his Annals of Imperial Rome were just a legend, and made no such admission about the death of Jesus. Come down off yourself, as I have told another person here, and stop thinking that you are a know-it-all and "superior" to everyone else and give yourself and the rest of us a break from all that---for good!!!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'm a ULC god William, and insist that you bow down, and worship me.
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John D. Partin
William Dusenberry, if you needed any more proof that your titles and opinion of yourself are worthless and meaningless, even Carla here is a ULC god, according to herself, anyway, and insists that you bow down and worship her, which shows that there are NO!!! actual meaningful standards for such titles and opinions here!! This is called killing two birds with one stone!!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Thanks, Dolly! I agree wholeheartedly.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Atleast Dusendingleberry doesn't suffer from poor self-esteem, or call reluctance. We just need to guide her in the right direction, wind up the key in her back, and let her go. With the right guidance, she could make a positive difference in this world.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Dusenberry, Jesus told me to tell you that in your role as Bishop, you give really good head.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Ofcourse Dusche, if you'll do Jesus, you'll do anyone.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
And as you can see William Dusendingleberry the ULC moderators aren't stopping us from putting you in you in your place. They only post what they think is appropriate, and somehow they think all this is turning us into better ministers. We're in training without even knowing it.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
And William, after you complete our training course, we will present you with a special diploma, which we will fully accredit and notarize, and it will be signed by the god or goddess of your choice.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
If you know it's meaningless Qilliam, and hopefully have a high enough intelligence quotient to tell it's offending your fellow ministers, don't you think it's time to quit doing so. Or are you so incompetent to even take personal inventory, see when you're wrong, and make amends. Being a minister has something to do with being spiritual, and being spiritual has something to do with growing spiritual, and growing spiritually has something to do with our defects of character, regard of our religions, or lack thereof.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Dusenberry, you don't even seem to know what the ULC or this blog are about, let alone what it means to be a Bishop, or even a Minister. And the ULC is not about to take your side in your condemnation of me, or anyone else for putting you in your place, you silly man.
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Brian Scott Hoff
Theatrics. Theatrics & perhaps some weird logic. I believe the "right" to burn books exists. More so as a private individual. Basically never if done by a government entity (I have similar thoughts about religion). Having a right & thinking someone is of sound mind / logical. are not the same thing. Most people have many rights, many people are not always smart when choosing to exercise their rights. We have a right to have a response to other peoples actions just as they have the right to respond to mine. Is this pastor looney? Most certainly. He keeps proving it over & over. Does he have the right to have a book burning? Sure. He even got a permit. Seems above board. If I knew how to apply a logic / morality test to everyone equally & to never be wrong then I'd wonder if we could start reigning in some of these rights. But.. I don't. No one does. Not sure how to do that. Do I have any fears that a kid can read a book and become gay? None whatsoever. Reading a book doesn't decide one's sexual attraction. That's just nature being nature. If there were too many gay folks humans might have a hard time surviving. But I see no evidence this is happening nor is even close to happening. The number of gay folks is not a threat nor are they. My daughter is gay. I love her and she's usually pretty happy. Good for her. There's plenty of other topics that actually need attention. Theatrics like book burning are a distraction from actually improving stuff.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
ignorant, religious bigots. All religious beliefs are, by the very definition of the word, delusional. It’s just a matter of degree, the depth of the pool. This sort has passed the crush depth of any submarine.
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John D. Partin
Charles, why don't you think that worldliness, by definition, is delusional, when there is so much evidence that it does make exclusively or vastly primarily worldly "thinking" people delusional, in dismissing any thoughts of God and so reality from their minds?!! They have often gone much farther out of this world than the depth of any ocean with their "justification" of anything that they want to do, and Holocausts, and immorality, generally!!
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Your response mad3 me recall a quote from one of Jean-Jacques Rousseau’s works in which he states “I would find your argument easier to refute if you used words which made more sense.”
Why don’t I consider ‘worldliness’ the definition of ‘delusional’? Because the definition of delusional is “ characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder”. Although you might not be agreeable to accepting the concept but worldliness, or living in the world’ is the reality of out situation. You, on the other hand, are living in the world of Bronze Age, desert-dwelling, nomadic, goat herders, which at least some scientists would argue may not even have reached the final stages of developing full, human consciousness. The ‘humans’ developed a religion (one of thousands) that they thought not only explained the origins of the universe but also that of biogenesis. All the while not even being able to explain where the sun ‘went’ at night. We’ve come a long way in the past 5000 years, but easily socialized individuals such as yourself still embrace their delusional belief system which lacks evidence and contradicts scientific evidence to the contrary.
“ They have often gone much farther out of this world than the depth of any ocean”??? That has a nice ring to it, but lacks creativity. That little ditty has been around for a long time and you seemed to have once again latched onto the past rather living in the present. The maximum depth of the ocean is about 10,000m, or 10km. The space station orbits at about 400km, dwarfing your ages old comparative. But in a way, it is apropos of the matter at hand. Science has dwarfed the understanding of pre-humans.
But religious people don’t want to join the rest of us on the space station. So be it. But cease and desist your efforts to disguise your ignorance in ‘faith’. The emperor’s tailor sewed your garments, too.
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Minister Wilson
Dr. Zerpersande,
Well said...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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John D. Partin
"Dr " Zerpersande, don't you atheists and God haters here ever compare notes or read my replies to others among you on the same matters because it is very monotonous to have to go through my answers all over again with every one of you, but I guess that is where you are all at and stuck right now!! Arguments which "don't make sense", according to ungodly people's "thinking", and arguments which actually don't make sense are two entirely different and polar opposite things, since all of you have many spiritual and psychological blocks that keep you from seeing, understanding, and accepting good sense on this matter or many other matters, as your minds are blinded by the god of this world (Satan), who doesn't allow you to see the truth!! Worldliness is delusional because it is based on delusions about the world, and delusions about the world, quite clearly, aren't the same as the world itself. You have deluded yourself by denying God's existence, which has to be taken into any truly rational and realistic evaluation of the world. One of many proofs of the validity of this assertion is the atheist Friedrich Nietzsche's going insane because of his dismissal of God from his "thinking", and all other atheists become insane and irrational and unrealistic, even if not as drastically as he did, because of dismissing God from their "thinking", too. Not according to yourselves, of course, because what insane and unreasonable people are ever so according to themselves? But, quite obviously, objectively speaking and in reality!! You and other atheists dismiss Biblical teaching because "it is from the Bronze Age", feeling that it is "outdated" and "not relevant to our time", but you don't, consistently, dismiss all other ideas that originated in and have been around from that age, such as Democracy, from ancient Greece, and numbers and mathematics, known to Pythagoras and ancient Greeks, and, instead, single out Biblical teaching and Christianity out of all that to dismiss and condemn. Why is that so with you, if you say that "people from that age can't reason correctly"? That is very inconsistent and a double standard on your part! The truth doesn't stop being the truth because of how long it has been around, and people couldn't sensibly change their truths every few centuries or decades or years or months or days or hours in order to "keep up with the times and be relevant" or there would be no stability and maintenance of order in society. Moral truth (love your neighbor as yourself, love one another as I have loved you, do unto others as you would have others do unto you, and all other such truth) never goes out of style or becomes outmoded or obsolete. Conversely, "new and improved and space age thinking" isn't synonymous with right thinking, considering all the obviously wrong ideas and movements that have been conceived and believed in modern times (Communism, Nazism, NAMBLA, etc). People need to hear and read the same truths over and over again, down through the centuries and millennia, in order to get them and keep getting them and not forget them because we easily let them slip out of our minds!! That need doesn't stop because of technology, which is external to us, but still fits man himself, who hasn't changed essentially from his beginning and for the last 5,000 years, and never will!! Don't worry about keeping up with the Joneses or modern times or whatever everyone else is doing or being on the "space station", and, instead, concern yourself with being right with God, since the truth is eternal and will be around when all of this world and technology have passed away into dust!! And look after your own believing that you have clothes, when you are naked, and stop believing that lie about yourself, and clothe yourself in the white garment of righteousness!! If you listen to "Wilson" and his ilk, they will have you standing on your head in the corner!!!
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Additionally, as regards me not having read your posts, and my comment that I have no interest whatsoever in doing so….
This site has a very good purpose. It yanks the control non-courthouse weddings from the hands of the religiously delusional. If this is how you managed to become what you consider to become a ‘real minister’, you’re likely exactly my stereotypical view of ministers/preachers.
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John D. Partin
A "stereotypical view of ministers/preachers" or anyone or anything else is the practice of bigots, if you are admitting that you are one of them! The purpose of this site isn't to so stretch the definition of "minister" as to call anyone or anything at all a "minister", making it a meaningless term without any requirements at all, but only to allow for some disagreements among ministers, while maintaining basic principles and requirements for them. If you had actually read my posts to other atheists there, you wouldn't have still been commenting on questions that I have already answered. So, it's not looking good for your having read my posts, if we don't have to just take your word for that. You are far too easy to refute, Zerpersande, and no challenge for me at all!!
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Your comment about how I have not read your other posts is exactly what prompted me to respond to you. I see that my more lengthy response has now been posted. When I first posted it didn’t immediately appear. But I now see that it is available to you and it has a timestamp of 3:27 PM.
The post starts off by saying that I didn’t come to this site to read your posts, and I have no intention of perusing the archives to determine your attitude on atheists. I don’t give a rat’s ass what you think about atheists in general or me specifically. I commented, in detail, on your previous post. If that didn’t clarify things for you then too bad. Bugger off.
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John D. Partin
Why are you telling me or anyone else to "bugger off" or do anything else when you aren't able to make us do so and wouldn't come off very well trying to do so?!! Stick to things that you are able to do: lie, say stupid things, stay misinformed, and be wrong about everything, and forget about threats that you have no way of enforcing, without severe problems for yourself!! You don't even know yourself what you are saying and so how could anyone else know what your babblings are supposed to mean?!! Keep your ignorance and incoherent mumbling to yourself and don't bother me or anyone else with it!!!
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Just because I am momentarily so inclined I will address (at least some of) your points/silliness.
“Dr " Let’s ignore the extra space you added there, or the lack of a period, because you just aren’t the type to be concerned with detail, are you? However, you seem to question the salutation. Want to know when I question such? When a ‘minister’ uses the title. A doctorate in superstitions? THAT THE PERSON BELIEVES IN? Wonderful degree. Would you agree that a doctorate in chemistry is deserving of that salutation?
“Zerpersande, don't you atheists and God haters here ever compare notes or read my replies to others”
Can’t speak for others but I don’t give an airborne rodent’s anal sphincter muscle about your previous replies. I do recall one where you made it clear the ‘D.’ doesn’t stand for ‘Dolly’. My opinion is that it very aptly stands for ‘Delusional’.
I’m on this site bc I thought being ordained (read legally permitted to perform a wedding ceremony) and/or having a certificate of said ordination, would be a hoot. Didn’t come to discuss the delusional nature of religions with a certified member of The Cult of the Golden Orb (search for ‘Dana Carvey on Religion’ on YouTube)
“….since all of you have many spiritual and psychological blocks that keep you from seeing, understanding, and accepting good sense on this matter or many other matters, as your minds are blinded by the god of this world (Satan), who doesn't allow you to see the truth!!”
Dana Carvey’s ‘The Church Lady’ popped to mind here. SATAN!! Satan hasn’t put up spiritual blocks. We just require proof rather than belief. You have diddley in the way of proof.
“You and other atheists dismiss Biblical teaching because "it is from the Bronze Age", feeling that it is "outdated" and "not relevant to our time", but you don't, consistently, dismiss all other ideas that originated in and have been around from that age, such as Democracy, from ancient Greece, and numbers and mathematics, known to Pythagoras and ancient Greeks, and, instead, single out Biblical teaching and Christianity out of all that to dismiss and condemn. Why is that so with you,”
‘I have sucked the marrow form the bones of their ideas of the ancients and cast away the dried out shells.’ Paraphrased from some Sufi quote or another. If their ideas work, can be proven and peer reviewed, I accept them. At the same time, if anyone can refute them in like manner I’m all ears and open to changing my mind. The planetary model of the atom isn’t really all the accurate but it serves a purpose. The planetary theory of the solar system has ‘religiously delusional’ individuals such as yourself. They are the Flat Earthers.
“…if you say that "people from that age can't reason correctly"? That is very inconsistent and a double standard on your part!”
Yes, if I said that. But I didn’t. However, in terms of explaining the origin of the universe and biogenesis they were way over their heads. Pythagoras developed a theory that has bern proven to work. Democritus proposed the idea of matter being composed of atoms. Turns out he was right but Aristotle and Plato didn’t agree with such ‘materialistic’ ideas. So there were famous people just like you.
“The truth doesn't stop being the truth because of how long it has been around,”
And neither does bovine fecal matter.
“Moral truth (love your neighbor as yourself, love one another as I have loved you, do unto others as you would have others do unto you, and all other such truth) never goes out of style or becomes outmoded or obsolete.”
Never said that aren’t some worthwhile ideas in religions. But it’s like looking for diamonds in a septic tank.
“ … but still fits man himself, who hasn't changed essentially from his beginning and for the last 5,000 years, and never will!!”
Man is still evolving, both physically and socially. In fact, Julian Jaynes has proposed that the origin of true human consciousness may have taken place somewhere between the time of the old testament and the new testament. Succinctly put, the old testament god is a wrathful murderer whereas the illegitimate son that is created from ‘His’ rape of a teenage virgin seemed to be a lot more moral guy.
“If you listen to "Wilson" and his ilk, they will have you standing on your head in the corner!!!”
Wilson? From the TV series House? Or is this some other member on the group? Maybe the one that thought you might be a cross-dressing Dolly impersonator?
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John D. Partin
The "Wilson", calling himself "Minister Wilson", who comments in his post of Feb. 18 at 7:40 p.m. "Well said. Take care", right after your post of Feb. 17 at 4:27 p.m. More proof that you aren't reading even what immediately follows your own posts here or someone who supports you. I call him "Wilson" because he doesn't merit the term "Minister" anymore than you do the term "Dr.", except in his and your delusions about yourselves. It is just nit-picky for you to comment on a period left out by me after a degree that you haven't even earned in the 1st place, except, again, in your self-delusion about yourself!! No people, such as yourself and "Wilson", who are so delusional about yourselves can possibly be the judges of anyone else's "delusions"!!! "Man's evolving physically and socially" has no relevance to his spiritual condition, which is obvious to everyone else to whom it can be obvious, even if not obvious to you, for very obvious reasons!! The truths of God, again, quite clearly, to all right thinking people, aren't "diamonds in a septic tank"!! You don't even know the truth about your own belief system and so, obviously, are unqualified to comment on anyone else's beliefs, much less the truth of Almighty God and Christianity!! Your calling God "a wrathful murderer", because of how Bible writers depicted Him for their own purposes and agenda (to make Him "supportive" of whatever they wanted) and Jesus "the illegitimate son created by the rape of His mother" is more proof of your ignorance and anti-God prejudice, and so disqualify you and your statements from serious consideration!!! Your vulgar comparison of truth to bovine fecal matter is more evidence of your idiocy and anti-God prejudice!!! You have far too much evasiveness and obfuscation to reply to in one post (if it even deserved any reply, which it doesn't!!), but I can humor you for a little bit longer, and then will have to move on to some actually important matters and posts here. Your falsely mischaracterizing myself and others as "Flat Earthers", saying that I "have diddley in the way of proof", ridiculing Satan by mentioning "the Church Lady" (as though a spiritual reality and root cause of the world's disorders could never be mentioned again seriously because of a character in a skit!), and your calling legitimate points "silliness", considering your own deluded state of "thinking", disqualifies your comments again from any serious consideration!! If even something like you doesn't deny that the Nazis' and Communists' hatefulness and indoctrination warped their thinking and kept them from seeing the truth, how can you deny that worldliness does that same thing to other people, too, and blocks the truth from their minds as well, consistently speaking, unless you are operating on a double standard (one for them and a different standard for you and your ilk!)?!! This all becomes so very convoluted with all of you people, with your self-justification, no matter what and at all costs!!! Your vulgar remark about "an airborne rodent's anal sphincter muscle" and irrelevant comment on "the Cult of the Golden Orb" (and only "relevant" in your confused "thinking"!) are just more evidence of your irrational "thinking". This is all of your very confused post that I'm going to bother with now, since it's all just more of the same nonsense, and will try to respond to more of it later---or not, if my post here even gets put on the blog.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
So you focused on my sarcastic little Barb about the extra space being related to your lack of attention to detail and totally failed to respond to whether or not the salutation of Dr. is appropriate for someone with a doctorate in chemistry.
But now that is a moot. It seems that I can put this diffusion genie back in the bottle by simply telling you that I’m done with you I will not converse with you anymore. At least you told Wilson good riddance as a result of his making that statement. So f**k off.
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John D. Partin
Don't be egotistical about your doctorate in chemistry, as though that makes you any smarter than anyone without it or your mere opinion against God's existence more true or important than others' belief in it!! Be not wise in your own eyes and lean not unto your own understanding!! Why are you arrogantly telling me or anyone to f**k off, while not able to make anyone do it, or even using that language at all, thereby proving the immorality of atheism on the small scale, as does the atheist Vladimir Putin in ordering the invasion of Ukraine and other outspoken or de-facto atheists' actions prove on the large scale, in invading Poland, torturing and killing, etc. ad nauseam?!! Yes, good-bye and good riddance to you, too, if you are unreachable and irrational, since Jesus said not to cast pearls before swine!!!
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Minister Wilson
Hey John
How dare you call Dr. Zerpersande egotistical when you act the same way about your god claims at least he has a degree that people can see, touch, etc..
What do you have? delusions of granduer that you and the all might are like-minded?
And special note atheists or atheism is not a bad word...
Passive atheism
Means a lack of belief for an unsubstaintiated claim...Do you have any evidence besides your constant delusional tantrums?
Positive Atheism
If a person makes a positive assertion that no god exists then they would need to prove that, assertion...
However, if they say they do not believe your assertion that a god exist then you have the burden of prove..
Get your facts straight John,
Minister Wilson
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John D. Partin
No matter how much or vehemently you and other atheists post in here that "atheism" is moral and doesn't need God to be so", we are seeing in the actions ordered by the atheist Vladimir Putin in Ukraine today the actual immorality of atheism, and this immorality has been demonstrated again and again throughout history by outspoken atheists or practical and de-facto atheists, who lived and acted as if there were no God, even when they claimed to "believe in God". Actions still speak louder than words and prove again and again what atheism really is, despite all the public relations statements and propaganda for it that anyone can put out to cover the truth about it! If atheists have had no problem with doing all of these great evils in invading Ukraine, Poland, murdering and torturing people, etc. ad nauseam, how much easier are smaller evils for them to do?!!!
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Minister Wilson
What made you think "slavery" was wrong John?
It was not your bible therefore, you also evaluate the rightness or wrongness of the bible as well, stop preteding that you dont...
And if actions spoke louder than words and you really believed that you would not claim to be a Christian...
Minister Wilson
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
I composed a message off-line but copy/paste doesn’t seem to work. Maybe I’ll type it in, maybe I won’t. You’re not enough of a hoot to warrant the effort. Question is, is the time I spent composing it worth it?
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Lionheart
You are quite right Charles. Looking on the bright side, time eventually kills all gods, it always has, since mankind created the first God, the Sun. They all eventually pass away, and with it goes their crazy religions, thank goodness.
Out of all of them though, I actually thought the Sun god was a good and logical idea, with the absence of science back then. At least it was generally visible once a day, so you knew it was there, and if you prayed to it, to give it thanks, it would come up again and show it’s face the next day, which is more than can be said for most of the others that mankind have created in their heads. 🤪
I’m surprised how many people still want to believe in all of these hidden gods, and will even apologize for them remaining invisible and will even go to great lengths to create reasons for their delusional mental behavior in still believing in them. 🤪
🦁❤️
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Lionheart
Sorry Charles, did I just reply to you in the wrong place? If I did, I’ll delete it when it shows up.
🦁❤️
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
No, I think it’s in the right place. This was my first, and perhaps last, post on this forum. Discussing these matters with some people reminds me of Twain’s comment…
“Never try to teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”
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Lionheart
That's funny, but anyway, thanks for stopping by.
🦁♥️
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'll go to heaven for the climate, but Hell for the company, is my favorite quote by Mark Twain. It's better to rule in Hell than serve in heaven. I agree with Milton too.
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Thomas R King
"Reverend" Locke is engaging in sorcery. He is raising chaotic energy against the authors, publishers, and readers via the well-known Law of Contagion. He is a dangerous public nuisance. If you find his acts acceptable, you cannot call yourself a decent person, Christian or otherwise..
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Gary Richard Noce
It's sick and reminds me of the kkk, and the nazis. The south is still at war with itself.
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Shirley Jean Davis
Any way you look at it, burning books or even banning them teaches children that it is okay to remain ignorant about certain topics, robs them of the freedom to be entertained by reading, and even with the Harry Potter series robs them of intellectual discourse. Now, I know that there is no guarantee in the constitution to give children the freedom to entertainment, I just said that to make a point. Reading is fundamental to growth and is something the ignorant will not do. Yes, I'm calling those who burn books ignorant. Have you read Harry Potter as you would read the Bible? As a fact-based word from some superpower? Then it is you who are wrong. Harry Potter is a fictional character, so why are you so afraid of someone that does not exist? Just wondering.
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Marie Diana Briguglio
I am currently wintering in AZ and if I could burn all the Trump cult flags I would and confederate flags hidden in camper tents I would but I might get shot! These people are predictable there not imaginative or original! The propaganda here is deplorable!!! Total radicalization right wing crazy!
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Anti democratic communist leftist. Tear down history. Confederate battle flag has nothing to do with slavery lady. You should really study what the Confederate flag really represented. St. Andrew's Cross. The original 13 colonies, etc. It was a battle flag. It never was the flag representing the Confederacy. Get your facts straight. Stay silent and thenvpost correct information. Trump is not a cult. I xan see j suppirt left wing cancel culture. And are you better off now then you were 4 years ago dingbat. Hope you have your solar panels and your little windmill when fossil fuels get cancelled. Better get a horse and buggy.
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Robert James Ruhnke
The confederates had slavery put into their constitution. The confederate battle flag was dredged up from history to be used as a banner for anti segregation in the civil rights movement. The only flag of the confederacy that matters is their white flag of surrender. You don’t even know the full scope of history because you choose to ignore it. Trump isn’t a cult, but many of those who blindly support him are part of the Qanon cult. Thank you for proving her point that many right wingers fall for most obvious absurd pieces of propaganda.
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Ellie_Loves
Comment removed by user.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Anti democratic communist leftist. Tear down history. Confederate battle flag has nothing to do with slavery lady. You should really study what the Confederate flag really represented. St. Andrew's Cross. The original 13 colonies, etc. It was a battle flag. It never was the flag representing the Confederacy. Get your facts straight. Stay silent and thenvpost correct information. Trump is not a cult. I xan see j suppirt left wing cancel culture. And are you better off now then you were 4 years ago dingbat. Hope you have your solar panels and your little windmill when fossil fuels get cancelled. Better get a horse and buggy.
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Jenni Lovsey
You cant even put two coherent words together, sit down!
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Minister Wilson
Hey Keith,
Trump has started a cult when so many are willing to claim that an election was stolen without prove and terroize the Capital over what he said.
Cult is defined as a "great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement.." And with 60 court case and no proof not one iota they decided that attacking the Capital was a good idea based on Trump's rhetoric.
So, who is anti-democratic?
It does not matter where the Confederate flag came from, it represents a tacit acceptance of hate and intollerance towards other people...
Plus, stautes dont teach history they venerate the past. So are you proud of the Nation's fight to keep slavery? Perhaps, you and your family (including wife and kids) should have all been slaves...too
Those claiming hertiage over hate have stayed silent for years while "hate" groups used that symbology to attack civil rights and support corporate socialist on the right and now, its CRT. How dare these teachers make little white kids feel bad, but hey, a little black kid should learn to respect the great Generally Lee for being a "patriot" for states rights???
How many other terrorists that have actually attacked and killed Americans do you support? Why not make statues for the 9/11 terrorizers, so we wont forget...
I am sure it is quite difficult for you to square that circle, so just save the whole heritage argument because that is a feckless right-wing talking point to say nothing more than "Nuh UH"
If you are such a supporter of the fossil fuel industry then let them frack in your back yard, so you can light your drinking water on fire, I didnt think so.
Conservatives used to be about conservation and preservation of the land, now it is cult dedicate to support coporate socialist policies and right wing evagelico's beliefs into everday society so who is anti-democractic?
The same people that say we should take steps to care for the enviroment, ya, that makes about a much sense as your Confederate heritage history told by the Civil war statues as some sort of tribute to the heroes that attacked the U.S. (sound fimilar yet?)
Maybe, you should follow the same advise you gave Jenni, I am just saying...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
PS.. Cancel culture, really, so I guess they two senators setting on the Jan 6th panel deserved to be censured huh get real man, the right-wing cancels voices all the time for the wrong reason, so if you are going to fair and balanced have some intellectual integrity because we are all watching this "cult" thing play out...
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John D. Partin
Carla, the next time that you meet a Dolly Parton impersonator at a drag show or by actually going to Dollywood and meeting the real Dolly or even in your usual venue of your imagination, please ask her to send me a little money, which I could sure use, since she is convinced that the difference in our last names (Parton and Partin) proves that we aren't related and so never talks to me!!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Well, excuse me, Partin. My bad! I didn't realize there was a difference in your names. When I saw your middle initial, I really thought you might be her in disguise. But since you've corrected me, I won't make that mistake again, sir. I've also come to realize that I like and agree with most of what you say, so I only intend to speak respectfully to you anymore. I hope you feel as good about me, and will refrain from calling me Carla, or making it seem like you think I'm gay, which I am not. Thankyou.
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Daniel Gray
Excuse yourself carla, YOU constantly deride and insult people and have even had your posts removed with one because of a threat you made, and you want to sound now like the injured person when you get insulted back? How about this, how about you treat people the same way you are now complaining about how you should be treated
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
It sounds like Daniel Gray had a resentment. Those resentments will get the beßt of you Daniel. I hope you'll quickly learn how to let go and let God, before it's too late.
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Richard Lee Cornell
Maybe it is time to start to burn churches to the ground since they must also teach hate of books. It is a State that not so long ago used to burn crosses and lynch those that looked different. Guess times even as they change stay the same.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Furthermore Mr. Partin, I never go to dragshows, or bars of any description. However, I do like to flavor my coffee with liqueurs, and do have a home bar cabinet. And I won't be going to Dollywood, or anyplace else, before this pandemic goes away completely. I even do all my shopping online.
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John D. Partin
Mr. Carl Elfstrom, I like very many things that you say, too, especially about William Dusenberry, and promise that I will be respectful to you from now on. I won't call you Carla anymore and please excuse me for doing so or insinuating that you are gay, which I know isn't true, too. Have a good day and take care. I apologize for saying that you go to drag shows and won't do that anymore, either. Again, be well!
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John D. Partin
Carl Bernard Elfstrom, I'll try again to get my post put on here, unless they are just slow in putting it on. I will try to treat you respectfully from now on and won't call you Carla anymore. I understand that you don't go to drag shows or bars of any kind. I don't drink liquor anymore at all. I shop online and only go next door to the store. The pandemic keeps me in, too. I like many things that you say, especially about William Dusenberry. Take care and stay well.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Thankyou Mr. Partin. I bet if we work together as a team it won't be hàrd to run off all the misguided Dusendingleberrys from this blog.
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John D. Partin
Mr. Elfstrom, and the Daniel Grays, Flugo Marxes, "Wilsons", and Zerpersandes, and any more like them, and the horses that they rode in on, too!!
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John D. Partin
Mr. Elfstrom, Little Willie's Son below, next to the bottom of this thread, can't figure out how anyone couldn't be a Christian just because he says that he is, without doing anything that is required of being a Christian, which is one of many reasons why I won't waste any more time responding directly to him, since he is far too stupid to ever understand me, and will only talk down about him to others, but is reason why he needs to go, being one of the misguided Dusendingleberrys here!! Take care and stay well.
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Jenni Lovsey
NO, they do not!
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Conservatives in general, and the religiously delusional specifically, are the ones found behind book burnings and the suppression of information.
https://www.vox.com/culture/22918344/banned-books-history-maus-school-censorship-texas-harold-rugg-beloved-huck-finn-dr-seuss
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Rev. Dr. James Jacob Showers Jr
This reminds me of some folks with the Victory Outreach Church in Dallas, Texas. We were handing out bible tracks, at I believe it was a Marilyn Manson Concert and this was when I was still in the reserve component of the US Army. Now anyone that has known me for 5 or 6 minutes, can tell that I am a firm believer in the United States Constitution. It doesn't make a difference if your a down south bible thumping Christian or the satanist. Everyone has the right to the Freedom of Expression, religion, gathering, etc. as long as it does not interfere with the rights of another, and of course you tattooing 666 in the back of my head. This was actually the satanists, who jumped out at us during the concert. I think I mentioned to one young gentleman, 'we just like you have the freedom of religion', and as a US Army Government employee, 'I respectfully request', that you grant us the same courtesy, and we continued on our way. Just as St Matthew in the Christian Holy Scripture relayed, quite eloquently may I add-'Forgive me Almighty Creator, for I am just a sinner'. I didn't need coercion, I needed the truth and that truth set us free.
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John D. Partin
Thousands of years of theology aren't going to stop or change just because little Willie's Son or anyone else can't or won't accept them or anything as answers and proof of God's existence, and don't want proof, but only to keep asking for it and annoying people with something that they don't care about, anyway. That is why I won't waste any more time on his dishonesty and game playing, and so he can just go on playing with himself, as usual!!!
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Ernest Sadaharu Marumoto
It’s amazing in the United States that there is so much intolerance and lack of acceptance of the principles the country was founded on. Freedom was the principle that was trying to be implemented and yet today one by one those freedoms are being taken from us. Why can’t we accept that God gave us all free will and that defines who we are as individuals? Even if we disagree with another person’s choice as long as they don’t infringe on others then just let them be judged by God. Simply put, live and let live. Tolerance is the key to peaceful coexistence.
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Fr. Matthew Arælius
Children. Just children. Sad.
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Rod Gesner
The Extreme Irony of theses drama seeking pyromaniacs from our mythical Duality.. Once upon a time such practices swelled to smashing printing presses. Burning homes and church/Synagogues. The greatest losses being Holocaust and the Library at Alexandria.. Although 2,000+ yrs of catholuca n muslims probly have burued many Authors and knowledge. Present day however it is a Drama Queen poser act.. E very book that gets burned was bought by someone. Just Like every school shooting and presudential race price of AMNO goes up. . The Drama causes opposing folks to kneejerk Buy the threatened books. And Silly Satanists even if you. Steal them from hotel room drawers. Somebody will buy more; to replace those bibles.
Untill we have a total sytems failure. Reprinting and Net/cloud sharing of Books will spread them; in many ways and directions.. So dance yr dances if drama but bring loga n drums not books...As they din't realy burn that well.. ( I should know; I got stuck w a hoarder load n no firewood.. Not worth my time; fluffing and Stirring) ;)
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Rod Gesner
The Extreme Irony of theses drama seeking pyromaniacs from our mythical Duality.. Once upon a time such practices swelled to smashing printing presses. Burning homes and church/Synagogues. The greatest losses being Holocaust and the Library at Alexandria.. Although 2,000+ yrs of catholuca n muslims probly have burued many Authors and knowledge. Present day however it is a Drama Queen poser act.. E very book that gets burned was bought by someone. Just Like every school shooting and presudential race price of AMNO goes up. . The Drama causes opposing folks to kneejerk Buy the threatened books. And Silly Satanists even if you. Steal them from hotel room drawers. Somebody will buy more; to replace those bibles.
Untill we have a total sytems failure. Reprinting and Net/cloud sharing of Books will spread them; in many ways and directions.. So dance yr dances if drama but bring loga n drums not books...As they din't realy burn that well.. ( I should know; I got stuck w a hoarder load n no firewood.. Not worth my time; fluffing and Stirring) ;)
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Mary E. Infante
We are told not to judge, that only God has the right to judge, and yet Christians can be the most judgemental. We are supposed to carry the message not force it down other people's throats. We were told to love one another. The word except was never in that command. Burning books and condemning other's life choices for against everything the Bible tells us. As for the burning of witches, the Commandment says " Thou shalt not kill". No "except" there either.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Furthermore, zerperpunder and rohunk, as it says in the Rede "With a fool no season spend, or be counted as his friend". Although we seek not to harm, never confuse us with the ones who turn the other cheek. True protection Magick does not cause karmic debt.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Where is Bishop Dusendingleberry?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Flugo must have sobered up. That's why we haven't heard from her lately.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Furthermore Daniel, we must nurture strength of spirit to see hield us in sudden misfortune.
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John D. Partin
No matter how much or vehemently you and other atheists post in here that "atheism" is moral and doesn't need God to be so", we are seeing in the actions ordered by the atheist Vladimir Putin in Ukraine today the actual immorality of atheism, and this immorality has been demonstrated again and again throughout history by outspoken atheists or practical and de-facto atheists, who lived and acted as if there were no God, even when they claimed to "believe in God". Actions still speak louder than words and prove again and again what atheism really is, despite all the public relations statements and propaganda for it that anyone can put out to cover the truth about it! If atheists have had no problem with doing all of these great evils in invading Ukraine, Poland, murdering and torturing people, etc. ad nauseam, how much easier are smaller evils for them to do?!!!
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Minister Wilson
Atheism
is not moral or immoral it is a lack of belief for a claim that a god exist get you facts straight, John
Minister Wilson
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John D. Partin
Atheists, such as Zerpersande, Vladimir Putin, and all others here and in the world dismiss man as "just another animal and nothing special", for the sake of their thinking only of this world and indulging in whatever pleasures they want with other people or else imposing their government on these "animals", but the inevitable downside of considering man to be an "animal" for our pleasure or control of him is violation of his rights, territory, sovereignty, and dignity, as is happening in Ukraine today and has happened throughout history!!! Only a "temple of the Holy Spirit" and "the Crown of Creation" and "loved by God being" deserves respect and not to have these violations and disrespectful behavior done to him. When you have thrown out all these righteous and holy considerations and evaluations of man, you make these violations and disrespect certain!! Atheists and God haters have been doing these same things that Putin is doing in Ukraine today throughout history to people everywhere!! Because I know that you will bring up "Christians" who have done rotten things, too, just their calling themselves "Christians" didn't actually make them Christians, since they didn't follow Christ's definition of being Christian or His teachings of love. "Christians" only commit atrocities or do wrong to the extent that they disobey Christ, whereas atheists commit atrocities and do wrongs to the extent that they obey their philosophy and follow it to its logical conclusion.
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Minister Wilson
Hey John,
You have violated our agreement...
Your mouth keeps writing checks that are not cashable.
Putin like pardin (you) both claim to believe in god.
links below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y2f4vGza64
https://religionfacts.com/putin
He claims to be an "Orthodoxed Catholic" like his mother, and you claim to be "christian" as well...can you prove that?
And the Christian Valdimer Putin, just like you, has no proof for his God claim believes and you both capable of some really treacherous, silly things..based on those beliefs...
So, once again he is your kin-folk John, how dare you cast him away since you are both like-minded and share believes about the same types of super natural things without (...wait for it...) any proof whatsoever...
Save all that rhetoric about actions because whenever a god believing individual does something stupid or bad you claim that that is proof they really werent a christian but you dont apply this same standard to yourself. (This thinking is just sloppy and remedial)...
How about we get rid of all churches John, because the vast majority a prisoners believe in God, so getting rid of churches and replacing them with Satan Clubs should reduce crime, right?...How dare you sarcasitically claim that names mean something and then turn around and question self proclaimed christians of not being christian... If you dont believe Christians calling themselves christians, then why take Satan Club members seriously?
You asked Dr. Zerpersande; why he said things he could not enforce, well back at you, John. Quit saying things that you havent "enforced or proved" either, John because that makes you seem like a liar. However, I am almost certain that you are quite comfortable with hypocrisy...based on a preexisting delusion...
No one here is scared of you John. You act like a bully or some tough guy, that trolls around quotating bible versus and what people are trying to tell you is that they dont care about these versus in the bible, but that does not seem to reasonate with you.
And yes a degree in chemistry makes you more knowledge in chemistry, however, you dont even have a degree in theology I pressume, and so you are not aware of the inherrent problems with your on claims. In other words, you dont know, what you dont know...So, instead, you just run around pretending like you do.
If you dont have any proof for your claims then at least acknowledge that, and quit making stuff up. It seems obvious that your parents did not raise you well because you have no filter, talk silly, and call everyone an atheist who does not think like you, well prove it or drop it, that is your choice.
Your unconventional thinking and silly rationale is childish, because a christian is not really a christian when they do something bad ? That is just silly and childish just like your behavior and mannerisms.
So please, cut the crap John, I have already warned you to mind your manners.
Therefore, if you respond and we all know you cant help yourself, provide "evidence" for your god claims...
Not talking points, bible versus, driveless vehicles, or your unsubstantiated claims about a mind running the universe, either provide tangible "proof" or this shows "you" are simply delusional...and no one should take you seriously...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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MIKE
There is nothing evil, only lesser degrees of good. God created everything! HE/SHE is the lord of the seen and unseen.
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John D. Partin
It is just obvious that that isn't true and that there are some or rather many things that are evil, and not lesser degrees of good. Child molestation, bestiality, rape, child prostitution and pornography, serial killings, white slavery and slavery of black people, terrorism, Putin's invasion of Ukraine, and many other things are just evil with no redeeming virtues whatsoever and not any lesser degrees of good. Satan is the Lord of much of the seen and unseen, not just God, and Satan is the god of this world, as Scripture says. That isn't scapegoating him, but just putting blame where blame is due and telling the truth!!
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John D. Partin
Little Willie's Son can't get it into his head that nobody is a Christian just because he says that he is, but only if he follows Christ's teachings of love, mercy, and forgiveness, the same as nobody is really a plumber or electrician or member of any other profession if he doesn't practice that profession as it is actually done. He wants to believe that non-practicing "Christians' are actually Christians because they "confirm" his bigotry against Christianity and Christians. It is useless wasting any more time talking with him about this when he won't admit and accept the obvious and so I'm through talking with him and expect him to be through with talking to me, as he said that he was and keep his word. Goodbye and Good Riddance, once and for all!!!!
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Minister Wilson
Good
Then dont talk about me either...
People make mistakes whether they are christian or not, Christians make mistakes whether they claim to be or not. So I guess the crusades happend by a bunch of non-christians huh. Ya you keep on deluding yourself with that nonesense.
I am still waiting for the whole "corrupt nature" no ones responsible rhetoric, or how you overcame your own gay-tendecies, so just keep talking to like minded people, so your delusions will stay intact...
I wish you would get help but you first need to recognize the problem...
Minister Willie Son
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Edward Hamilton Calhoun
LOL LOL - - And man (and woman) created god (and gods and goddess - etc) in his own image and the image of his mind - what a crock of BS - - To be a DEVOUT Agnostic is the only view that makes sense - - agin LOL LOL - - reply if you have courage (or delusion) - - Shalom Eddie
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David Ciambrone
These religious book burnings are so stupid. They accomplish nothing and make the minister involved look like an idiot.
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Christopher N Fox
People are free to read whatever they like. Everyone is free to burn any book they dislike. The problem arises when these burnings become an event aimed at accusing others. The message of such a burning is simple and consistent ; It accuses all who disagree and boosts the self and group ego. It clearly states "You are wrong and we are right" This is the cry off all fundamentalist groups, be they religious, political or social reformist. Such things pander to a hugely inflated sense of self worth.
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Minister William Jackson
I think it's ok to do what we want to a long no one is hurt. It's our right as well as anyone to do what they want to. No can't and should not complain because everyone . Any group does the basic same thing. Burn books change things to there satisfaction and to there way .no matter who you are be it a Christian A devil follower As even have common sense don't be a scenic we all break laws Kill in the name of God are the in the name of the devil so don't judge. If the person fills better about it we'll let him or them .Hitler burnt books of his command and what ever he did. Also killed not only his kind of people cause his was a Jew him self yes he was do some investigation. But anyway We all sin It doesn't matter who we are . We all a going to be judged for all we have done .be it burn books and who you are and warships . Your times up . One thing matter who you are though God loves you . What you decide to do with that all up to you .
That’s too bad about burning Harry Potter books, they are a much better read for children than the Bible, and nowhere near as bloodthirsty, and with no Hell and damnation for children who don’t believe in Harry Potter. 🤷🏼
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