Virginia’s Loudoun County School District is in hot water after barring an unnamed teacher from using scripture in their email signature.
The school district argues that the email signature, which is used in correspondence with both teachers and students, could be viewed as an endorsement of the Christian faith, especially considering the email address utilizes the school’s own website domain.
But a group of faith activists view things differently.
They argue that the teacher using the Bible verse isn’t a violation of the Establishment Clause at all, and that by banning her from quoting scripture in her email address, the school is in essence violating her religious freedom.
Should public employees be able to quote religious scripture in official correspondence?
Is It E-Legal?
The email signature scripture in question is reportedly John 3:16, which reads:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
God may so love the world, but the school district did not like this scripture in one of their employees’ email signatures.
The school district told the teacher to remove the scripture from workplace correspondence, telling her that of course she is free to practice and express her faith privately – but when it comes to official communications, she has to check her faith at the door.
Apparently, the teacher then offered to change the signature to Proverbs 22:6, an Old Testament verse that states:
"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."
When this too was rejected, the teacher enlisted a Christian legal group, The Liberty Counsel, to aid her in restoring the email signature.
“The District permits teachers to personalize their signature blocks with personally-selected pronouns, quotations, pictures or phrases that are intended to express the teachers’ personal views on a variety of subjects, and that are attributable to the teachers, and not necessarily to LCPS,” reads a letter the group sent to school administration.
“A teacher’s private speech in the workplace is not state endorsement of any religious message the teacher may choose to convey.”
School Fires Back
In response, acting Superintendent Daniel W. Smith wrote back, stating that “the general inclusion of religious quotes in communications LCPS employees send while in their public capacities is not private expression and runs afoul of the Establishment Clause, and as such, bars LCPS, as a local governmental entity, from taking sides in religious disputes or favoring or disfavoring anyone based on religion or belief, or lack thereof.”
He also points out that the scripture in question was not solely sent internally – the email signature was also used in communication with both parents and students.
Religious Freedom Violation?
At the crux of the argument is whether the school violated the teacher’s religious freedom by telling her to remove the scripture from her email signature.
School officials say that as a public employee, the teacher simply cannot have a Bible verse in official school correspondence with parents and students, and that they would treat any religious passage from any faith the same way.
Officials point out the teacher is more than welcome to express her faith in the workplace, she just can’t do it in a way that could be construed as an endorsement by the school.
But the teacher and the faith group assisting her say that she’s done nothing wrong legally or morally. They argue that the email signature is private speech, and that “a teacher’s private speech in the workplace is not state endorsement of any religious message the teacher may choose to convey.”
If neither side budges, the courts may have to decide.
What do you think? Is the school correct to force the teacher to remove the scripture from her email signature under the Establishment Clause? Or is this an overzealous overreach by the school district?
98 comments
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Susan Colmenares
The Bible does not belong in a public school. There are non-Christians who might well believe that using John 3:16 is indeed an endorsement of Christianity on behalf of the district. This teacher is really out of line.
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John Condron
I suspect that christians might be more likely to see it as an endorsement of christianity, while non-christian parents or students might see it as a warning or threat. It certainly would not encourage non-christians to express their own views. This signature is no different from a teacher hanging a cross in their classroom, or keeping a bible on their desk.
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Rev Mark D
Fie upon thee for not giving them a capital "C!"
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John Condron
So, Mark. You think it is important to refer to people and groups using their preferred words?
I guess that means you support using people's preferred pronous and names. Right?
Personally, I respect people, not belief systems. As a result, I capitalize people's names, but not the labels people use for their belief systems (e.g., religions, politcal parties).
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Dennis
I don't know, but are teachers generally prohibited from wearing items that represent their faith? Necklaces with crosses come to mind. Yamakas? Hijab?
Is anyone confused that wearing an item while in a school building represents an endorsement or establishment of a religion by the school or is it obvious that it's merely an expression of the individual's beliefs?
Is it only acceptable if they don't take it off and set in on their desk? What if they leave it behind one day in their class room. Does that constitute endorsement?
I think the answer is no in all these cases, but email seems to confuse people. We end up in all manner of contortions implying individually authored communications will be misunderstood as establishment or endorsement.
It's just email, not the construction and dedication of a new building named the "Jesus Sings Best Auditorium."
Interesting subject. Also why I would never be a school adminstrator. I would allow far more freedmon of expression than many would prefer.
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Steven Wesley Smith
I send with you Susan. If the quote is about the content, paraphrase it. As it is a work email, the teacher is speaking on behalf of the public school and should remain neutral.
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Harvey Darwin Myers II
When did our society get so dainty? If it doesn't apply to you, ignore it. If you want to be offended the only person that can choose that is you.
The government isn't creating a law or requiring any sort of ritual practice. Schools are willfully allowing Satanic groups on school grounds. That's a religion also. Even atheism is a belief system that says there is not any super powers in the universe. They are allowed to have their statements on an email.
If the government is not demanding any sort of religious then it is simple another American that happens to work for the government and should be covered under 1A.
I am not condoning any sort of pressure from said individual. Simple having something you can or cannot read isn't forcing anything on anyone IMHO.
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Rev. Kev
It's not about being dainty or offended in most cases. It's about legality. The problem with a school email having Bible verses (or any religious texts) is the possible misapprehension that the school -- a government institution in this case -- is endorsing a particular religion. Which would be a violation of the separation clause.
If the school is a private, religious school then there are no issues. It cannot be seen as government endorsement.
The Satanic Temple started offering after school programs in response to churches having after school religious programs (if one religion is allowed then any religion is allowed). The idea being to curb the overreach of evangelical groups proselytizing the very young. Interestingly enough, while many Christian parents are up in arms over "Satan" in their school (not that TST believes in an actual Satan), a good many parents also welcome TST's program. The Christians teach Bible. TST has lessons and games that teach science, critical thinking skills, etc.
Last note: atheism is a belief system like not collecting stamps is a hobby. 1) It's not a system of any sort. 2) The only thing all atheists have in common is the lack of belief in any gods or goddesses.
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
The teacher can put whatever she wants in her private email signature but, when she's writing as a represenative of her employer, she should keep her religious views to herself.
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Kenneth Eagle Spirit
I can't help but wonder what the reaction would've been if the scripture had been taken from the Bhagavad Gita or Quran or ... Anyway, just a thought.
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John Condron
I suspect that would depend on whether the school administrator recognized the quote. How many American public school principals have read the bible, let alone other "holy books?" My guess would be, "few if any."
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Rev Mark D
Let's try this (and quoting no source):
"Train up a child in the way they should go: and when they is old, they will not depart from it.(sic)"
Or, alternatively, quote source Br'er Rabbit. (...perhaps affording the bonus possibility hope that, in trying to decipher what the apostrophe is all about, many readers may even forget what else they were wondering about, and lose interest.)
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Wendy Hoffman
Why would you think the reaction would be any different?
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Colleen McAllister
This one is easy. It is wrong to put any religious statement on public school documents. In this case the email is considered a document. As with School letterhead, the email is viewed as school endorsed. The teacher should use the Scripture on her private emails only.
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Canadian Yankee
It is my feeling who ever payes for the email system gets to make the rules. If this is a government provided system for use by employees to reach the customer than the government has the right to make the rules. Seems simple to m.
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Dawn
Exactly. This is NOT her email-it’s the school’s and they have total control over what is allowed and not. She’s essentially preaching as a spokesperson for the public school and she’s wrong. Period. If it wasn’t a school but a private company, same thing as the company owns the email. People who are in support of her are christian-biased. If a ‘satan’ worshipper quoted something in support of their beliefs, would they be supportive? The school is completely within their power to control emails. Period.
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Joy
None of your beliefs, religions, pronouns, whatever - none of it should be in your formal, communications for public work. Sorry. It just should not. Now if you want to work for a religious school or a non-government entity, go for it. Put all your Bible, Quran, pronoun, and quotes in there. All of them.
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Joe Stutler
Pronouns aren't beliefs, having them in letterhead helps others avoid any confusion. The rest of your comment is spot-on.
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Dwayne Hinton
to what religion belong pronouns?
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R. M. Gates - Intuitive Guide
If we are to have a true separation of church and state, if we are ALL to be given religious freedom to express, or not, any faith, then we must keep it out of ANY government entity. The teacher in question was using a school (government) email, sending a Christian bible quote to family and faculty that may or may not have the same faith. If she wanted to include that scripture on her personal email that is not affiliated with the school in any way, then absolutely. But not this. Yes, historically the United States has been, predominately, a Christian faith population. However, that does not give Christians the right over other faiths to bend the rules. Either the law applies to all, or to none.
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Harvey Darwin Myers II
I believe you are missing the forest for the trees. The use of a government entities email and including a verse isn't forcing anyone to do anything. The government agency still hasn't passed a rule, policy, or law about religion that everyone must follow.
To say, well it might be conferred as support is ridiculous.
We used to be able to hear things, see things, and allow others to do things we disagreed with without calling foul at every moment.
I don't believe in massage parlors but driving past one doesn't make me traumatized.
If the government tries to force something then I agree, but people work for the government and they are citizens as well as gov workers.
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Paul Edward Nunis
Where exactly does the word 'force', appear in the 1st Amendment?
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Michael Calhoun Norton
They are more like citizens when they're off the clock.
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Harvey Darwin Myers II
I believe you are missing the forest for the trees. The use of a government entities email and including a verse isn't forcing anyone to do anything. The government agency still hasn't passed a rule, policy, or law about religion that everyone must follow.
To say, well it might be conferred as support is ridiculous.
We used to be able to hear things, see things, and allow others to do things we disagreed with without calling foul at every moment.
I don't believe in massage parlors but driving past one doesn't make me traumatized.
If the government tries to force something then I agree, but people work for the government and they are citizens as well as gov workers.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
the email system belongs to the school, through the town or city. the emails are used to communicate with staff, admin and parents. it is not supposed to be used to proselytize regardless of what someone thinks their religion tells them to do. they have no more right to spread their message than would racists, pedophiles, white supremacists, pagans, satanists or atheists.
the teacher, as many of her kind do, are clearly virtue signalling. they want everyone they come in contact with to know what it is they believe in. how is that professional educator behavior? I called it when that gopper pillow guy first started his tv ads, I knew it the first time; top shirt buttoned, cross on a chain outside the shirt, highly visible during his tv ads. he wanted everyone to know who/what he was. and as we all found out, no better than the rest of his kind.
so no, the teacher does not get a pass, it is not a first amendment issue and it is not denying her religious beliefs. some of you may be aware of what the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is and how it came about, if you don't google it. in short the Kansas Board of Ed was going to require intelligent design be taught in schools. The founder of the CotFSM wrote a letter to the BoE backing their efforts and told that allowing ID to be taught would mean they would have to teach ALL other beliefs, including that of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Needless to say KS BoE changed their mind. because cris chins don't want equality in religion, they only want their religion centerpieced. and that would be the case in Virginia.
the cris chins would be apoplectic having to read a praise to SATAN, or muhammad or ganesha every time they got an email from a teacher or school administrator. suddenly that email system is no longer tolerant. so in the end, a teacher in that school system should have just added some Satanic verse, or something from the koran and just kept at it. sooner than later a cris chen parent or teacher would have raised the alarm and it would have been easily solved. it's allowed for everyone or no one
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Joe Stutler
No good reason to allow scripture of any religion as tag lines on public school emails. Save that for Hogwarts and the other religious/magic schools.
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Terence Kuch
When a public school teacher sends a communication >as a teacher<, that is public speech - how could it not be? Her religious beliefs have no place in such communication.
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Nicholas J Page
Personally I think No don't preach to Establishment's Its a personal matter.Yes use it at home for private use age but not publicly not everyone is religious or if they are do not force it onto others. Yes I am a Minister but I only mention to friends and family. If no ones interested then I talk about something else.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
She can have that, as long as a fellow teacher can have this: “depressing. I asked myself: ‘Where is God?’ I came to detest the sanctimonious attitude of people toward violence, always saying ‘it’s God’s will’.”
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
The ‘Train up a child…’ quote may have gone unchallenged, but leading off with the 3:16 verse gets noticed as the sign of a zealot. No turning back.
If I used a quote it would be the same Bertrand Russell quote my students were required to memorize.
“Many things which must be thought about are uninteresting, and even those things which are interesting at first often become very wearisome before they have been considered as long as is necessary. The power of giving prolonged attention is very important and is not likely to be widely acquired except as a habit originally induced by outside pressure.”
Russell was a vocal atheist but I was never challenged. So my advice to the religiously inclined is that you can wear your heart on your sleeve, but don’t wear your membership card to the Crazy Club.
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Mary Haviland
stupid, and an infringment of freedom of religion. ungodly.
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Rabbi Keevan
I agree it is an infringement religious freedom, namely: The teacher's email infringes MY freedom of religion!
The religious freedom of every recipient of that teacher's email is being infringed. Every parent, every student, every co-worker, is forced to accept the preaching and proselytization made by their government (the teacher) of a religion they may not follow.
To be clear, any government employee (as the teacher is) that preaches to me is infringes MY religious freedom.
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John Condron
Which god, Mary?
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Larry Mager
It's the "Golden Rule": Those who have the gold, make the rules! Considering this is in Virginia, the home of the president who figured out the "Separation clause" and made his own version of the Bible by cutting out all references to miracles...Thomas Jefferson, this doesn't surprise me.
I will say this: Her 2nd quote was more accurate for a teacher to use as it is more vague as it could have come from anywhere.
Cheers!
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Those who make their living, from suckering money from the recipients of “the opium of the masses” (churches) have known since people began to read — that “brainwashing little kiddies, in Sunday schools, and anywhere else they could be forced to pray, would almost guarantee that the majority of these little kiddies, would continue to believe the nonsense they were fed - for the rest of their lives,
As Ben Franklin said: give me the mind of a little kiddie — until he reaches the age of six, and his mind will be mine forever and ever, amen.
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Michael Anthony Leavy
I more or less agree with the School District's view that this violates the Separation Clause, but my general view is that any kind of "proselytizing" in an email signature should be banned as inappropriate. When I was teaching (in a public school district), many of my colleagues were fond of attaching secular quotes to their signatures - "be the change you want to see" kind of things - which always struck me as both intrusive and tiresome. Maybe I'm just grumpy, but let business be business, and make policy that sidesteps the whole issue of what is and isn't acceptable.
It's not that I'm opposed to expressions of personal belief in schools. As a high school teacher, I felt compelled to be completely open about mine, just to be sure that my students could judge how they might be effecting my instruction. But expressing beliefs in a context where they are carefully situated as personal and available for discussion, comparison and challenge is very different from offering them as part of an official signature on an official document.
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Guy Sutherland McLaren
I tend to avoid people that want to prosletyse, I will not work for anyone that insists on wearing their religion on their sleeve.
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Michael Chandler
I think that as a work email it should be kept free from personal. Feel free to add anything to your personal email but NOT your work one.
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Leslie Bomar
My overall assessment here is this: If the offending signature line is being used in the context of the schools email domain (i.e. Jane.Doe@GreatSchool.org/edu), then the teacher must abide by any and all acceptable use policy the school wishes to enforce. Such domains are the resource and property of the school itself as are any and all emails, attachments, attendant schedules created, published, provided or transmitted using that domain.
Her school provided email service is NOT hers, she does not own it, and therefore her speech may be limited in that forum.
Now, if she places a quote on her signature line, that is not attributed to any source, and is not inherently, or easily identifiable as attributable to any one particular religion, the school may allow it. However, the decision as to what constitutes acceptable use is entirely at the discretion of the school.
Many organizations, government or other, limit the type, tenor and nature of communications that may be used while operating as a representative of that group. This does not constitute an infringement of free speech, simply because those communication or not coming from a private individual but from a representative of some group, organization or company.
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David M Hines
Your boss has the right to set standards of behavior, including mandating the contents of your email signature. You have zero right to practice your religion at company expense.
This constant demand for special treatment has much to do with why Christians are viewed poorly these days.
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Paul Edward Nunis
Perfectly OK, as long as the school also endorses government email accounts adding 'Allah Akhbar', 'Hail Satan', etc. - as the Constitution requires.
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Harvey Darwin Myers II
I agree that the correct method is the acceptance of all rather than trying to prohibit all.
All religions to include atheism are belief systems that cannot be proven or disproved.
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Charles Oliver Wolff
The school will prevail here. If this teacher joined a religious cult that preached nudity, would she have a cause of action if the school demanded she not teach while naked? Get a gmail address.
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Duane Joseph Smith
I truly believe in the separation of church and state, as a state employee the teacher should not be quoting religion in regards to their work life. If a teacher cannot separate their religion from their job, then the teacher should be removed from public service. It does not violate their freedom of religion or speech to have their spiritual opinion kept outside the work environment.
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Michael Denny Clark
Mike
Mass murder tragic events have become a common occurrence in our society ever since our society has begun removing all REVERENCE of GOD from all of our public institutions and gatherings... it's just a fact.
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Renae Lynn Hagen
I know atheists with more morals and respect than most Christians I know..
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Renae Lynn Hagen
And I bet if you asked most of those suspects, I bet they would say their christians.
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Renae Lynn Hagen
It's freedom of religion and it's correct, but not for you to spread it to others. They have the same freedom so...
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Martin L Stigleman
Lets leave behind the question of endorsing a religion, promoting personal beliefs, and repressing the beliefs of an individual, and lets ask one simple question...who OWNS the domain name that is attached to the email server? If someone is going to ride in your car, are they free to decide to toss french fries on the floor? Can they crank up opera music as loud as they want? Use glass chalk to draw pictures on the windows? Yes, they are free to do all of this in THEIR car, but doing it in yours IS NOT a violation of their freedom...it is a requirement to use YOUR PROPERTY. This email server belongs to the school, and providing guidelines and demanding respect for use of their property is not violating anyone's freedom. Demanding you be allowed to do whatever you want with someone else's property is not only ridiculous, but it is childish in the extreme
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Roger Sigtermans
It's not so simple as a "freedom of speech" issue when it can be construed as government endorsement of a particular religion. You are free to express your religious beliefs when you are not acting as an agent of government.
I wonder if this religious objection would continue if every non-Christian religion were to post things that may be objectionable to Christians. But that really is just a thought experiment... I suspect minority religions have learned about inclusion and respect other's spiritual considerations and are less likely to flaunt their beliefs to subtlety proselytize or virtue signal. Plus, being in the minority, they may not want to invite stigmatization. The bottom line is do any or all of that, just not in the auspices of public employment.
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John Eubanks
Taglines have no place in any business correspondence. They are unprofessional and intrusive.
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John Figlear
There is still separation of church and state in this country. Do they work in a private school? Do they work in a Catholic school? Do they work in a Christian school? Do they work in a Jewish school? Do they work in a Muslim school? No. I can just imagine what would happen if this was going on at work. Such nonsense.
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Rev. MichaelRS
Too much. Especially since the teacher offered to change it to something that is more innocuous and actually can't be school specific.
She will win in court of course, but if it were to stand I would want ALL messages or religious expression removed. Not only from emails but the school setting itself. Ie. I don't want to see a teacher in a hijab which is an overt expression of her faith.
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John Condron
How is an old testament verse "more inocuous" than a new testament verse, Michael? I suppose it adds one more faith tradition (Christian and Jewish), but it still leaves out every other faith tradition, including none (atheism).
How is it that either "can't be school specific?" What does that even mean?
I do think she might win in court, given the recent decision that it's OK for a football coach to pray on the 50-year-line. I wonder how long it will take for other faith traditions to do the same. My money is on the Satanic Temple!
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Rev. MichaelRS
Because John 3:16, "For God so loved the world....: , is blatantly religious referring to one particular religion. Proverbs 22:6 is not. If people had no idea where it came from it would probably just be taken as wise advice or philosophy. I can't think of any faith tradition including Satanism or atheism, that would find anything to disagree with in that statement.
From just the words If you can't see how that would be more related to a school setting than the other. I don't know how to explain it to you.
That's exactly what the woke, Pro LGBT etc etc etc crowd is trying to do with children with pride Flags in the classroom and drag queen story time and so on and so forth. They are trying to train children up in a certain way so that when they're older they will have that favorable bent in great in them and not depart from it
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John Condron
So, Michael. You do not recognize that the book of proverbs is part of the scriptures of both christianity and judaism. Really? It says right in the article that this is from "the old testament," so even if you have no knowledge of the bible, you should recognize that this is still a religious reference.
I am sure it would have been acceptable if she wanted to use a Mister Rogers quote, or something from some other secular book... but that isn't what she did.
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Rev. MichaelRS
Of course that is where it is from and of course that is a judeo-christian scripture ,but unless one is being pedantic, which apparently you are.
I'm saying that the words themselves are innocuous enough so as to not promote any particular faith and can just as easily be taken as secular philosophy as not. Even if the source, Proverbs, is attached to it.
And I really feel sorry for people who this is the kind of thing that keeps them up at night. It's like they walk around all day long thinking, "What is the slightest thing I can find a day that will offend me that I can blow out of proportion."
It's really becoming, actually has been for a long time now, nonsensical.
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John Condron
There are lots of bible verses that are "innocuous enough" (whatever that means), but they are still bible verses. The point is that scriptures of any kind are inappropriate in correspondence from a public school teacher to students, parents, or staff, on a public-school email system.
At the risk of being accused of being "pedantic," I really do not believe that what I said was "overly concerned with the details of the subject" (i.e., pedantic). The fact that the book of proverbs is part of the bible is a salient feature of the argument, as opposed to a minor detail.
One more thing. I just finished talking with a young trans man, whose life has been threatened several times over the last few weeks. He would disagree with your claim that we are blowing this out of proportion. The rise of christo-fascism is a huge threat to our democracy, but a more immediate threat to the LGBTQ+ community, and anyone else these nuts decide are undesirables.
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Rev. MichaelRS
That's kind of interesting. See, I'm more worried about the violent trans- fascist/activist/criminals.
Like those that attacked Riley Gaines at San Francisco University. Or just violent trans individuals in general who are probably that way because of overlapping mental health issues, not the least of which is their gender dysphoria.
Individuals like the shooter in Nashville, the stabber of the cab driver in Portland, the individual police in Colorado recently arrested for planning a school shooting. The over 20% (far above the average when compared to the general population) of Antifia memvers who identify as something other than their simple biological sex.
Actually most anybody on the left where political violence seems to be acceptable at all levels.
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Joe Stutler
So no wearing of crucifix jewelry/bling?
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Rev. MichaelRS
That's not my opinion. But if they're going to drill down on it like they seem to be from the article, then yeah absolutely nothing that indicates one's faith.
Perhaps when they start pissing off other groups, besides just the usual fashionable attack on Christians, the nonsense will stop
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John Condron
The state of Florida has made it illegal for LGBTQ+ teachers to display ANYTHING that might advertise their sexual orientation. Strictly speaking, that law should be applied across the board, but it isn't; at least not so far.
The same should be true for religion. If it is OK to advertise your christianity, it should also be OK to have a statue of Baphomet on your desk or a pentagram around your neck.
"Equal protection under the law" used to mean something.
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Marvin James Sawyer
I may be biased towards the Christian you on the subject I do think that anybody making a comment about their belief while using their workplace communication system should not be discriminated against
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Rev. Kev
If the school district enforces it equally to everyone then it isn't discrimination. Discrimination means treating a certain class or group differently. If everyone is treated the same, it's just a rule. If Bible verses are allowed, then that means someone could (if they were so inclined) post quotes from The Satanic Bible. A move that would definitely receive backlash from churches and parents. But if you open the door for one, you must then allow all the others to play on equal footing.
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John Condron
Yes, Marvin. You might be biased.
Would it be OK if a teacher ended their email signature with "Allahu Akbar?"
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Marvin James Sawyer
Yes and God is great
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Dawn
And when a parent gets that email and it triggers a PTS attack as they’re an Iraq war veteran and they think they’re back in Iraq under attack and go shooting their family and neighbors…that’s ok…. The survivors can.sue the school… cuz they can since the person who posted it on their WORK email in their official capacity as a school employee is acting as a representative of the school. People need to keep their religions to themselves.
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John Condron
I do agree that the world would be a better place if people kept their religions to themselves, but do you really think alot of veterans are triggered by words they read in emails, Dawn?
They are more likely to be triggered by neighbors shooting off fireworks on the 4th of July, but you never hear anyone say "I'm not gonna do that this year because I don't want to upset my veteran neighbors." Here in Idaho, people stand in their yards and shoot guns in the air. Same thing happens on New Years Eve.
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Dawn
John, yes, I do. In fact, I just got off the phone with the love of my life. He's a bonafide war hero, retired Navy Commander with PTS,TBI, and lung issues from the burn pits they had to sleep amongst while in Iraq. read him your comment and he said absolutely they could be triggered. We, the lazy American public who have no idea what these men and women have endured, have no idea how they experience life once back in the States where our bad days (depending on the person) may include hangnails, no internet, and a long drive-thru wait for Starbucks. It's been 10 years since he's been back and there are days he is still on high-alert: driving under bridges, garbage cans on the side of the road, someone possibly following us while driving..and it goes on.
To your second point - I agree except I DO hear people saying they are not doing fireworks anymore because of the vets. I am constantly pleading with people (who claim to be pro-veteran) to stop with the fireworks. It got so bad here one night he called the police and pleaded with them to make the illegal fireworks stop. They declined - and he said so when he's triggered (because it sounds and smells like a firefight), they won't respond when he goes on a shooting spree, right? You can imagine how well that went over.
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John Condron
I find it hard to believe, Marvin, that you are so out-of-touch that you think it would be OK for a teacher to sign their email with "Allahu Akbar?"
Right-wing Xians would lose their freaking minds, and you know it!
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Lionheart
Which one? Did you mean Vishnu?
Never forget that Zeus loves you 🤭
🦁❤️
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Dwayne Hinton
in right to work states, you can be fired instantly. in government jobs, you are not breaking the rules, you are defying the US Constitution and breaking the law. in companies with an HR department - you'll be written up - up to being fired.
hate filled religions, such as what we all see of Christianity on fox news, newsmax, etc - have no place in the workplace. and quite honestly, those hate filled religions have no place in the USA.
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Lionheart
That might not go down well in other countries, but in the US it might be considered as her right to her free speech under the 1st Amendment, but I could be way out in left field with this if it interferes with the rules of her employment. I bet Daniel will know more about this than I do.
🦁♥️
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Robert Gagnon
The first one encompasses the whole Christian philosophy, it's kind of on the intrusive side. The second was a nice generalization that does refer to investing in children. They shouldn't allow any personal quotes pronouns etc. Just avoid these kinds of issues. Inter office communications will not benefit from what ever personal life mission the sender may attach to it.
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Dwayne Hinton
the only people i have ever seen to take offense at pronouns - are hate filled bigots. and THEN, they only began taking such great offense at pronouns when the liars on TV told them "you need to hate even MORE people".
be better. especially if you're supposed to be some kind of minister.
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Joe Stutler
Pronouns are included to help others avoid embarrassment.
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Rev Mark D
How about if the quote extended with the following: "...excepting of course anybody who is LBTQetc."
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Mckeva Jean Banks-Holmes
Neither one are wrong, we have to learn to be as gentle as dove wise as serpent. In both cases we have to learn to be a living epistle. How we walk speak and carry ourselves walking in the Fruit of the Spirit, teacher or administrator the rules and regulations keep it in mind God is God. And throwing scripture out it's no big deal, there is no need to do so. If the Heart Is Right the talk will be right the behavior will be right if they have eyes to see then they will see truth.
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Jimmy Moon
It is just another scheme by Satan to get GOD out of America. Glad to tell you, Satan, you have been defeated at the cross. So keep up all your work because you are headed for the Great Lake of Fire in the end.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
actually it's SATAN the true god that is keeping you and your Dog out of american. it's supposed cris chins like you that are the problem.
constant virtue signalling about how blessed you think you are, how saved you think you'll be and most importantly, how much better a person you are than non-cris chins. no true, jesus-following christian would say, act or behave like you and your ilk do.
SATAN is and has always been the whiping boy, the scape-goat by cris chins in much the same way that other groups have always use, blamed and attacked jews. and in that, same way, you and other cris chins blame immigrants, LGBTQ, african-americans and muslims for all that you think is wrong in the world.
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Dwayne Hinton
in your way of thinking - all the founding fathers of the USA signed documents creating the USA, which all came from Satan.
i guess there is no room for Christianity in the original USA, nor today, based upon your way of thinking, Jimmy.
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John P Maher
TRY BLAMING THE TRUE DEVIL, CORRUPTION !, IN EVERYTHING MONEY, RICHES, GREED, YOU KNOW LIKE THE GOVTs. THE CHURCHES, RELIGIONs, YOUR OWN MIND is YOUR PRIVATE DEVIL and AIN'T NO OTHER DEVIL ONLY GREED !
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Mary Haviland
To the person who asks me, what God, I tell you, the only God I refer to and follow us YHWY. Otherwise any other gid is a demigod, a fake or false god and I would say that.
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Russell Foley
I see nothing wrong in the teacher using scripture as part of their signature. The wrong is the school system worrying more about religion than doing more to protect our children from violence. The schools have absolutely no problem with renting out space for a church to hold services but they take away prayers in the school. The school system can't have both.
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Paul Edward Nunis
How much is the teacher paying to own the email service, connection, domain name, etc. ?
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James Andrew Crossman
If the school allows personal selection of quotations in their signatures, I see no issue at all in selecting a quote from any source. I've been known to use quotes from all sorts of people and book and wisdom literature, that I believe has some truth in it, whether I agree with the beliefs of the author or not. It's a quote from a book, so either all book quotes should be permitted or none, in my opinion.
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Dwayne Hinton
The greatest sin of all is to regret what cannot be changed.
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Dennis
Individuals add quotes to their signatures all the time. They also just add it to the text of an email.
As an adult, I've never found myself confused that an individual email represented the endorsement of a religion by a school. Children might experience some confusion, but should be taught tolerance all the same. I am not offended by holiday greetings from outside my own traditions.
Official announcements and endorsements are easy enough to write and identify. Was someone truly confused by the email or was it merely a chance act against someone else?
If a school enforces a policy that disallows ANY content not strictly related to school purposes, then I would find it reasonable to restrict her use as well. If it allows ANY other signature customization, they are permitting personalization of messages, and I would find that unreasonable.
This includes any other forms of faith, political or pseudo religious movements currently in society. If the school only pursues disciplinary action against specific content or is obviously selective in their enforcement, they are likely in the wrong. Those details aren't in the post so it's difficult to say.
The purely "religious" line no longer effectively exists, a fact that should be somewhat obvious in a cohort that has been ordained for a small payment. Censoring verses from one person's chosen 'faith text' and not another is just censorship.
We can likely all name 5 other modern "faith movements" that aren't tied to religions that would qualify as well.
I am reminded of a Futurama Episode that described the evolution of Star Trek faith. Can teacher quote Spock with "Long Live and Prosper"? Is that only a religion if it's filed paperwork with the state (or perhaps ordained ministers?)
In the end, I hope they do it for everything or nothing and accept the consequences of your open or closed approach.
Of course, I'd hate to see a school where the content of your email is vetted in real time (by AI language models) against your officially recorded job description. Any phrases that fall out of line with your 'math' or 'physical education' job assignment are flagged for disciplinary action.
It's all to avoid confusion, right?
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Ellie_Loves
I am so over all of this. With everything going on in this country we are complaining about the wrong things. I would care less about this woman's email if certain government and school officials would stop imposing their agendas on our school system and actually care what happens to the students and the staff. But alas, libraries are being stripped of books, teachers cannot get supplies to teach and less not forget the violence that occurs on a regular basis. God is not going to save us, scripture is not going to save us, the government is not going to save us, nor these self proclaimed evangelicals who tout hate, violence and are an abomination that truly does not represent who christ truly was. I'm over it!
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William Dell Voss
Many of the opinions being advanced are assuming that the teacher included the citing of the bylines author (John 3:16) in the first signature and/or the second (Proverbs 22:6). Did I miss that? The first quote included "God", which would be a violation of not only the Loudoun County School Board but most institutions and businesses. Instead of rejecting the second quote, why not allow the teacher to delete the byline (if she hadn't already) and let the proverb stand? Many are those who are threatened by the cultural movement surrounding inclusiveness, diversity, LGBTQ+ acceptance and equity, and yet, who are we to stand fearfully in judgement of this dedicated teacher as if she is some radical zealot? The teacher, who by the way, was forced to get a COVID vaccination to keep her job, isn't shouting her faith through a bullhorn, just a simple line below her signature.
What's missing in the article? According to the Liberty Councel - the restriction occurred despite a policy allowing faculty to use "personally selected pronouns, quotations, pictures or phrases that are intended to express [their] personal views.” Would the LCSB have forced her to remove these quotes, even without noting the author? I hope not."The function of education is to teach one to think intensively and to think critically. Intelligence plus character – that is the goal of true education." – The Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. - Christian
"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." – Mahatma Gandhi - Hindu
If he is indeed wise he does not bid you enter the house of his wisdom, but rather leads you to the threshold of your own mind.” ― Khalil Gibran, The Prophet
Because of ignorance, many of our problems are our own creation. Education, however, is the instrument that increases our ability to employ our own intelligence. _ Dalai Lama - Buddhist
Thomas Jefferson considered the teachings of Jesus as having "the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man,"
CNN Report - The Loudoun County School Board voted Wednesday on a policy that allows transgender student athletes to play on teams based on their gender identity; allows transgender students to use bathrooms and locker rooms based on their gender identity; and requires teachers, faculty and staff to refer to students by their preferred names and pronouns. June 22, 2021 "Teachers were required to be COVID vaccinated or be fired regardless of religious beliefs” - Loudoun County School Board Policy, §8125
Former LCSB Superintendent Scott A. Ziegler, who was fired after the release of the special grand jury report, was charged with retaliating against and penalizing an employee for a court appearance, one of three indictments brought against him in December.(2022).
April 11 – 2023 The U.S. Department of Education has opened an investigation into Loudoun County Public Schools’ handling of two sexual assaults committed by the same student in 2021 following a complaint filed by America First Legal. The world is upside down with divisiveness because of these fears.
Any wonder that Youngkin won the governorship handily in a state that Biden won by 16 points? Republicans hadn't taken a statewide race of any kind since 2009.
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Harvey Darwin Myers II
The point is simple.
Freedom of speech logically concludes that you might get offended, if I can say whatever I want and reverse. However, the intent of freedom of speech was that it is more important to a Free society that people be able to express themselves than be offended.
If it is a person, even one that works for the government, it should be covered under 1A UNLESS they are attempting to force people to do something. Putting a quote where you may or may not see it -- isn't forcing you.
Schools are allowing Satanic groups to provide after school events, that's a religion, will they be stopped? Isn't a religion a belief system. So isn't atheism also a belief system? So if we rule out Christian, Satanists, and Atheists who else would be allowed to work for the government?
If it is government unit that by rule, policy, or law attempting to coerce people that is completely wrong.
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Amber Fry
No, it really doesn't unless that school is a private religious school in the first place. That teacher should know better. It belongs in his own life, not forced onto everyone else around him.
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Amy Louise Hiatt
It should be all or nothing. Reading the examples of things that teachers can have in their personalized signature block, it seems that everything is allowed EXCEPT something religious. To be fair, if a scripture quote is not allowed, nothing personalized should be allowed.
I'm not really a fan of the whole plastering of Bible verses on things. Especially work/business correspondence. It comes off as superficial and pushy. Which can actually rub some people the wrong way and put a dark spot on the business relationship. In my own, limited experience, the people who are the most vocal about or most likely to otherwise advertise their faith tended to be the least trustworthy.
I'm of the position that Christians would all be better off with less evangelizing and less Bible waving and more being a witness to their faith in simple, daily acts. Showing love and compassion to others. Lending a helping hand when the opportunity arises. Volunteering to help at a homeless shelter or food distribution center. Being a person filled with happiness. Never even mentioning their faith unless someone specifically asks them about how they can be such an outgoing, caring person (which, of course, needs to be genuine and radiate from within). Like St. Francis is often credited as saying: “Preach the Gospel at all times, and if necessary use words.”
If a person isn't walking in the footsteps of Christ first, they have no business telling others how to do it.
You are spot on... I feel the same way.. the scripture is for you...not for you to suggest how it applies to others... Bravo!!
Yes! Well said.
True though it isn't up to the teacher to be preaching it to others anyway unless it's a religious school to begin with. Pushing his scripture on others is infringing upon other people's religious rights as well. Surely if he's so worried about personal rights he would take that into consideration too??
Lovely and intelligent reply! Well put!