An updated Gallup poll released this week has found American voters are becoming ever more comfortable with electing women, gays, socialists - and yes, even atheists.
To the standard question asked every few years (“If your party nominated a generally well-qualified person for president who happened to be _____, would you vote for that person?”) this year's Gallup poll found just about 60% would now consider putting an atheist in the White House, a whole 2 points higher than in 2015, and still well above those who'd support a socialist at 45%.
And while it's clear being an atheist presents less and less of a stigma with every passing poll, it still very much depends who you ask. Among Democrats, a hypothetical atheist candidate would enjoy 69% support, far below the scant 41% approval by would-be Republican voters.
Atheism Ascent
The current batch of 2020 Democratic presidential candidates may take small comfort in the fact that their base, growing increasingly comfortable with the thought of electing a Catholic, Jewish or Muslim candidate, would also gladly support the very young and old alike - something that should put current frontrunners Pete Buttigieg (who is openly gay and under 40) and Bernie Sanders (a 78-year-old Jewish socialist) at ease.
Make no mistake. There's still no openly atheist candidate running for president in 2020. There will, however, be dozens of openly non-religious politicians competing at the state level.
In much the same way that Bernie Sanders has warmed many more Americans to the idea of electing a socialist, it's quite possible that more and more voters will learn there's nothing wrong with entrusting atheists with the task of lawmaking in this country, particularly to counterbalance the rise of conservative Christian political influence, and the idea that God plays favorites when it comes to filling the Oval Office.
But is America truly ready for a God-free White House?
Is Atheism Still an Election Liability?
For all the theoretical leaps and bounds atheists and other diverse candidates have been making in the polls, it must be noted that the openly gay 38-year-old South Bend, Indiana Mayor Pete Buttigieg remains an unabashed practicing Episcopalian who regularly prays on the campaign trail, and who leveraged his faith during one Democratic presidential debate to blast Republicans who opposed minimum wage hikes as "so-called" Christians.
And Sanders, reluctant to discuss his Jewish upbringing well into his 2016 campaign, has made his Jewish identity central to his 2020 campaign, if only to reinforce the notion that religious politicians maintain some kind of added moral gravitas.
Even one of the lone atheists currently in Congress, California Rep. Jared Huffman, thinks a candidate’s atheism would still be a liability in a national election. As he told the Guardian, “there still is, at the national political level, this notion that you have to put some kind of faith out there. I’m not saying that anybody’s faking it in the presidential field but there still is this notion that’s one of the threshold things you have to do.” His outlook on any candidates in 2020 or beyond coming out as an atheist? “I think they would suffer withering criticism.”
So while the polls might say one thing, it's clear even the most liberal and Democratic voters still see a place for faith - if not God - in the White House. But with time, that still may change. After all, that same Gallup poll, taken in 2007, had only 45% of Americans willing to vote for an atheist for president.
What do you think? With the rise of the ‘nones’, will we reach a point where 75% of Americans could vote for an atheist? What about 95%?
Will Americans ever fully embrace atheism in politics?
98 comments
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Richard Lee Cornell
One of the staff in the White House is a Sunday school preacher.
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Oliver Dmello
Kick Jesus away!!!Jesus is not God.Jesus is not the son of God.We don't need Jesus in our lives.To hell with God.To hell with Jesus!!!
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Richard Lee Cornell
Bernie Sanders (a 78-year-old Jewish socialist) has been a die-hard communist most of his life. Since he was from a small State it did not matter. When he is elected as POTUS it will matter. He has made off hand comments about the US military. Bringing them all home. Disbanning their number from service. Bring back the fleet from all over seas stations. When he control Congress he will sign into law, laws that will make him not a President, but a ruler. The Bill of Rights will be rewritten to reflcet Bernie Sanders image of a more just country. All amendments are a option. His Green deal will raise gasoline prices where the average citizens can not afford to travel. Bernie will do everything he can in his first 100 days that will make any other Communist look like a girl scout.
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Darryl Mizer
Communist all of his life? Point me to your source on this one, please.
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Norma Battes
Do you mean agnostic over atheist? Hmmm, "an atheist president for a change"? But I thought.... Well, I guess there's a difference in an atheist president and an agnostic that claims to believe in a god just to get votes.
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Anthony Turan Romus Fountaine
We have a non- believer in the white house in the name of donald trump! His behavior and rhetoric is that of the anti-Christ!
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Lionheart
As long as he keeps the country heading in the right direction and getting it back on its feet I’m all for the antichrist 😇
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, what "right" direction are you talking about this "president's leading" us in, as I commented to Marion Ceruti in my posts to him above? Is it the 92,451 deaths from covid-19 that he has contributed to and indirectly caused us to have from his slowness, indifference, and inaction that he has displayed toward this pandemic? Do you think that any of those families who have lost family members due to his incompetence believe that he is "leading us in the right direction"? His own staff and people observing him and reporting on him all over the news (except Fox "News"; his personal ass kissers and public relations department, especially Sean Hannity, and other right-wing "news" outlets) are calling him an IDIOT!!! Is that, perhaps, the "right" direction that you are referring to his leading the country in: to make the rest of us as idiotic as he and his base are?! Is it his corruption that you are praising and his corrupt administration and his nominating a drunk sexual abuser for the Supreme Court and his corrupt "Attorney General" who wants the case against Michael Flynn dismissed and saying that we should all follow his lead and become as corrupt and underhanded as he is?! Is it his "winning" the election with the help of meddling by Russia in the 2016 election and that dishonesty is what we should be practicing?! Is it his rotten conduct, attitude, and policies toward immigrants coming here to seek asylum from gangs that were terrorizing them or racist policies toward Muslims that you think that he is "right" about and believe that we should emulate and follow his lead in?! What, specifically, do you mean by "right direction", instead of just tossing that term out there and not explaining yourself further and clarifying your meaning? Even if he has done some little bit of good for the country (which isn't especially hard for anyone to do, since even Hitler did a little bit of good for Germany----and if he can, so can anyone else for their country!!!), that doesn't excuse all of the overwhelming EVIL!!! that he has done, anymore than the few good things that the Nazis did excused their overwhelming EVIL!!! Why do you conservatives have this double standard of Trumpelstiltskin and other conservatives and right-wingers "can do no wrong", while saying that Liberals and Democrats "can do no right"?
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Lionheart
It's very difficult isn't it once you've become a Democrat, or a theist, to see outside the box. To quote Mark Twain "It's easier to be fooled than it is to accept you've been fooled". I suspect that whatever I say from hereon you won't agree, but for those who are sitting on the fence reading, I will. I won't even mention the idiocy of the bumbling and trembling words of Pelosi, or the inept senility of your possible nominee Biden. Darn it! I just did. 🤪
Have you ever wondered why there is no Democrat on Mount Rushmore? Neither have I 😀. But I digress, "our" wonderful president, who I strongly suspect will be re-elected in November, is at last bringing jobs back to the US where they should be. China has got away with controlling our medical supplies, and many other things, for far too long. At last we have someone in office doing something about people illegally entering our wonderful country illegally, and no, they are not all from war-torn countries seeking asylum. I did it the right way. I applied for immigration, my academic qualifications were checked, along with my health records, and my ability to be able to financially sustain myself, and my family.
Here are some facts about our worst President ever, Obama, on comparison of how he handled the Swine flu (H1N1) compared with President Trump. Trumps figures come first on the left.
TRUMP---OBAMA
1st case in US: Jan 20, 2020---April 15, 2009 Declared National Emergency: Jan 31, 2020 (11 days later)---OCTOBER 24, 2009 (6 months later) 1st Death in US: March 1, 2020 (1 month later)---OCTOBER 24 More than 1000 on the day of declaration 1st Travel Ban: Jan 31, 2020---No ban by Obama Required Quarantine: January 29, 2020---None by Obama 2nd Travel Ban from Italy, Iran,S. Korea: Feb 29,2020---None by Obama 3rd Travel Ban, Europe: March 11,2020---None by Obama Total Cases: 1,215 as of Mar, 3, 2020 (less than 2 Mths after 1st case)---60,800 April 09-April 2010 under Obama Total Dead: 36 after by March 11, 2020---12,469 by Apr 9 - Apr 2010
I would say that President Trump nipped this in the bud way far faster than Obama did with N1H1, and it's just as well due to its virulent nature, which is still not showing too many signs of slowing down. Under Obama, looking at how he handled H1N1, I suspect millions would have died in the US by now.
So yes, we are heading in the "right direction", and I believe that will also be evidenced on Nov 3rd, leaving Democrats once again crying in their milk and writing books with titles like "Where Did We Fail" or "What Happened".....well, President Trump happened, putting this country back in the right direction.
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Lionheart
Comment removed by user.
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Lionheart
Sorry my chart of dates didn't print on here as well I was hoping. I hope you can follow it.
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Lionheart
Let me see if this prints out better:
TRUMP---OBAMA
1st case in US: Jan 20, 2020---April 15, 2009
Declared National Emergency: Jan 31, 2020 (11 days later)---OCTOBER 24, 2009 (6 months later)
1st Death in US: March 1, 2020 (1 month later)---OCTOBER 24 More than 1000 on the day of declaration
1st Travel Ban: Jan 31, 2020---No ban by Obama Required Quarantine: January 29, 2020---None by Obama
2nd Travel Ban from Italy, Iran,S. Korea: Feb 29,2020---None by Obama
3rd Travel Ban, Europe: March 11,2020---None by Obama
Total Cases: 1,215 as of Mar, 3, 2020 (less than 2 Mths after 1st case)---60,800 April 09-April 2010 under Obama
Total Dead: 36 after by March 11, 2020---12,469 by Apr 9 - Apr 2010
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John D. Partin
That's funny because I was going to say the same thing about you and that it is very difficult, isn't it, once you have become a Trumpophile or a Conservative or an atheist to see outside the box? Your quote from Mark Twain is especially ironic coming from you, considering that Trumpelstiltskin has all of his followers, such as yourself, so hypnotized, brainwashed, and under his power that he has said that he could shoot someone right out on the street and you people would still support him (www..time.com/4191598/donald-trump-says-he-could-shoot-somebody-and-not-lose-voters/)!! That is how low an opinion he has of all you people and, apparently from your post here, quite deservedly so!!! Most or actually all self-respecting people don't like to be taken for granted or condescended to and patronized by someone else, but with you Trumpophiles, that's the very thing that you want him to do to you---and so the rest of us really know that your self-respect and pride can't be very high!!! Of course, you will say something like "oh, it was just a figure of speech" or "it was a play on words" or "he was just joking" or some other such evasive tactic, which is what you Trumpophiles always do when the truth of his statements and actions is put right in front of your eyes, so that you can maintain your delusions about him, but his statement and the truth speak for themselves!!! If you want to talk about people living in a box, clean up your own house first before you try to tell other people that they are living in boxes!!! People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!! First remove the beam from your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye!! Trumpophiles are certainly among the most in the box and close-minded people in the world or even right on top of the heap because Jordan Klepper of The Daily Show with Trevor Noah and many other people have pointed out these Trumpophiles' closed-mindedness and refusal to even consider anything that could shake their faith in the Donald and have ridiculed these people mercilessly over that!!!! (www.thewrap.com/jordan-klepper-returns-to-the-daily-show-at-trump-rally-video/, Trump supporters portrayed as the stupidest, most gullible people on earth in merciless column: www.rawstory.com/2019/03/trump-supporters-portrayed-stupidest-gullible-people-earth-merciless-column/). i could cite many more and write much more, but am trying to keep this down to a 5,000 word or under post, which is the limit. Of course, you will try to turn that around and say that it is his opponents who are "gullible, brainwashed, etc." because they won't go along with your brainwashing and gullibility, but the facts are still the facts and it is what it is, regardless of your spin and games on it!! You are always talking religious people's gullibility in believing their fairy tales, but you are just as gullible as they are about your believing Trumpophile lies, propaganda, mythology, and con games and can't liberate yourself from any of that any more than they can from their religious myths. So, it's the blind commenting on and trying to lead the blind!! Trumpelstiltskin (our JOKE!! "president", deserving of a joke name!!) has convinced you and your ilk that a "man" who has lied 18,000 times since entering the White House is "a teller of truth" and that not admitting to lying at all is the same as "not lying at all" and that his calling Obama "the worst president ever", transferring what he is on to Obama, makes Obama "the worst president ever". That is how gullible you are!!! More in another post!
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, what in the Hell polls have you been reading, other than some delusional Trumpophile polls, that have Trumpelstiltskin (because he only deserves this JOKE name as a JOKE!! "president"!!) "winning in November", since even Fox "NEWS", which is his ass kisser and brown noser and suckup the rest of the time, has Joe Biden ahead of him in the polls?!! When even your enemies have you out in front of your opponent, that's not a good sign for your opponent and there might be something to their prediction!! Have you been living in the same country as I have, especially these last few months with covid-19 ravaging the country and killing close to 100,000 people, with a lot of help from this incompetent "president"s indifference, inaction, slowness, and stupidity?!!! Not to mention all of the other EVILS!!! and STUPIDITIES!!! that he has inflicted on the country since he stole the presidency, with the help of Russian meddling in the 2016 election!! The rest of the country, outside of his base fanatical and unquestioning Trumpophiles, aren't going to hold him guiltless for all that!! He has alienated black people, gay people, women, immigrants and Hispanic Americans, Muslims, Asian Americans, and even many in the Republican Party, and only has angry old conservative white men on his side and whatever few people in their families that go along with them!! He can't win in November with only angry old conservative white men voting for him!! When the country becomes entirely populated by just this one type of person, then he might win with them, but as long as there are all these other people in the country and they HATE!!! him, he can forget about it!!! Fool us once, shame on you; fool us twice, shame on us!!! He will only be elected president of Fantasyland, in his own confused "mind"!! You said that because you entered the country through the regular immigration process, there shouldn't be any people coming in through emergency situations in need of asylum because there might be some people abusing the practice and system. That's like saying that people shouldn't be put ahead of other people in emergency rooms in hospitals when they have far more serious injuries or illnesses than those other people, but should just be content to wait their turn, the same as everyone else, for treatment!!! That is ridiculous!! Likewise, people in need of asylum can't be held to the same standard as ordinary people seeking entry into the country and with no urgent need to be allowed in, anymore than people with multiple injuries from gunshot wounds or car crashes or in need of heart surgery or treatment for covid-19 and other diseases should be held to the same standard as people with a sprained wrist or just coming in for a check up, since seriously ill or seriously endangered people need help first and then take care of the less serious cases!! Also, if we didn't allow any exemptions from the rules or bending of the law or following of legal asylum procedures because of possible abuses that could occur, there would be no mercy for anyone at all in any situation!! That, quite clearly, isn't going to work in this society. Besides, drug dealers and other criminals don't need to wait for mass immigrations of people coming here to get into the country because they can manage that just fine, anyway, with fake passports and IDs and fly in comfort into airports here or come in by themselves otherwise and more inconspicuously and let the poor people trudge along the roads for weeks or months to get here!!! If you don't have any mercy for poor people in need of asylum, why should anyone, by your standard, have any mercy for you if you need help, sometime, since these homeless and desperate situations can happen to anyone?! You mention that Obama didn't impose travel bans, whereas the Garbage Trumpster did, and consider that Obama's 'failure' and your "man's success", but racism and isolationism aren't successes and anti-racism and openness aren't failures, to any reasonable thinking person. We can protect ourselves without resorting to racism and isolationism. Your "genius president" (maniac!!) has said that he wants to open all the churches and cause more people to be infected and die!!!! There is a difference between not getting everything right all the time, due to being human, and deliberate indifference, maliciousness, incompetence, and hatred of Americans and your "man" is guilty of that indifference, maliciousness, incompetence, and hatred of Americans!!! So, we aren't going in the right direction at all, no matter what you and other mindless Trumpophiles may say, since you just stupidly go along with whatever he says and don't even think for yourselves any more, if you ever did!!!
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Lionheart
I can see you have some very strong delusional feelings about our wonderful President, and that’s okay. We had to endure 8 years of Obama selling us out so I’m sure you’ll be able to deal with another 4 more years of Donald Trump getting the USA back to where it should be. November 3rd will decide whether you are in the majority or minority as long as we can prevent votes from going to illegal immigrants. Don’t worry if Biden struggles with losing, I doubt he’ll remember he was in an election in 12 months time anyway. In fact, he might not know who he is this time next year. It’s real sad isn’t it?
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, your and other mindless Trumpophiles' support of this insane "president" is beyond belief or any rational understanding!! That IDIOT!! proposed that people should inject bleach or shine ultra-violet light up their asses or through their skin as a "cure" for covid-19, which every responsible and competent doctor in the world knows is dangerous to their health and could kill them!! This is the monstrosity that you "think" is "the best president that we have ever had"!!! He doesn't care anything about the American people, but only about himself and his re-election!! He doesn't know anything or he couldn't have come up with such STUPID!!! ideas as those!!! He proposed taking hydroxychloroquine as a "treatment" for covid-19, though the drug can lead to heart issues and death!!! That is more proof that you people just blindly follow whatever that IDIOT!!! tells you and don't think for yourselves at all and are hypnotized, brainwashed, and controlled by him and that people are right in laughing at and ridiculing all of you for being that way!!!! If you hadn't been hypnotized and brainwashed, you couldn't have voted for something like him in the first place!! He doesn't wear a face mask at public gatherings, which is very bad modeling for other people who see him not wearing one and "think" that it's "okay" for them not to wear one, either, and thus contributes to the spread of this virus and the death toll from it!! He has already contributed to the spread and death toll of covid-19 by not helping Governors of states to get PPE, swabs, test kits, and ventilators to their front line doctors, nurses, and first responders, who are fighting this pandemic, and by referring to it in the beginning as a "hoax from the Democrats"!! He is like a little kid who spends all his spare time tweeting on his Twitter account against people whom he thinks have attacked him (and he deserves to be attacked and should be attacked much more!!!), instead of doing his job and protecting the people of this country from this pandemic---and from himself by his just resigning or getting himself voted out of office in November, which he is actually working overtime to make sure that he will be voted out!!! He doesn't even come into the office until 12 or after because he is too busy watching TV or tweeting to come in and do his damn job!! He has tweeted that Joe Scarborough "murdered" Lori Klausutis and Dr. Klausutis has asked Twitter to remove his tweets from their social media site!! Trumpelstiltskin is totally irresponsible, malicious, vindictive, and childish!!! He deserves a joke name because he is a joke "president"!! He is calling mail-in ballots "fraudulent" because they would allow more people to vote against him and guarantee even more his defeat in November!! He is the biggest fraud of all!! It will, of course, just be more casting pearls before swine citing any more proofs of his incompetence to you, which you won't and can't afford to consider, since they would blow your case for him and what's left of your "mind" out of the water, but, at least, you won't be able to say that somebody didn't try to wake you up about him and tell you the truth!!! Trump's failed presidency: www.brookings. edu/blog/fixgov/2020/03/16/trumps-failed-presidency/ Donald Trump Is an Utter Failure as President: www.washingtonmonthly.com/2019/03/06/donald-trump-is-an-utter-failure-as-president/ DNC List: 110 Trump 'failures' at 2 year mark, 'only getting worse': www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/dnc-list-110-trump-failures-at-2-year-mark-only-getting-worse The Observer view on Donald Trump's growing list of failures: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/02/observer-view-on-donald-trump-growing-list-of-failures Trump Is a Massive Failure---and Getting Exactly What He Wants: www.nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/trump-is-a-massive-failure-and-getting-exactly-what-he-wants.html
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Lionheart
I’m sorry for you disillusionment. Let’s see how you react after the election, but even then I doubt you will believe the results. You are obviously a follower of poor journalism. You wouldn’t also be a follower of religion would you? Just asking! 😷
Good luck!
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, what is poor journalism in any of the facts that I have cited to you, since they have all been exhibited for all to see in the news and even on Fox "NEWS", and so aren't "left-wing propaganda" or any other kind of dismissive term that you want to apply to them!! Whatever TRUTH!! that you don't want to accept or that contradicts your distorted world view you immediately call "poor journalism" and whatever LIE!!! that you do want to accept you immediately call "good journalism", but your and other Trumpophiles' refusing to listen to or accept a truth doesn't make it not true and your accepting a lie as the truth doesn't make it the truth!! You can look up all those facts that I cited for yourself and see that they aren't poor journalism, but only the facts; and yet, you won't do so because you are too afraid that they will rock your little world and open your mind up and out of its fixed self-delusion!! More proof of your unrealistic and delusional "thinking" is your continuing to believe and say that only angry old conservative white men will be enough to re-elect your "man" as "president" when he has alienated and angered so many or most other people in the country!!! That is just not logical or reasonable thinking on your part!! You are, obviously, the follower of the de facto religion of Trumpianity, since you are as gullible and unquestioning about his lies and con games as are other religious people about their fairy tales and myths. So, you have no reason to believe that you are "superior" to any of those people or "more reasonable" than they are because you are really just as big of a SUCKER!!! for your religion as they are for theirs!! It is you who will be surprised by the results of this coming election when your "man" loses and is then able to be prosecuted for his many crimes committed during his term and sent to prison where he belongs!!! You won't even believe it after it has happened, the same as you don't believe or accept the truth now, but it will still be true!! "Disillusionment", as you put it, in Trumpelstiltskin, is actually enlightenment and accepting reality and the truth about him and his corrupt and incompetent administration!! Good luck in your fantasy world!!!
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Lionheart
Well, I guess we’ll find out how many follow my fantasy world on November 3rd, and how many follow yours. In the meantime let’s hope the President of the United States continues to stimulate our economy and bring jobs back to US from other countries that were so cheaply given away by other Presidents. Let’s also hope he continues to tighten our borders preventing illegal trespass into the U.S.
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, the country has long been and is turning every day more and more against your "president"!! He can't win in November with only angry old conservative white men for him and everybody else HATING!!! his guts!!! He didn't even win the popular vote in 2016, which was won by Hillary, and so certainly won't win in 2020 with everybody else against him, including many Republicans, who don't want him dragging them down with him, and even some in his base who are turning against him!! Wake up and smell the coffee!! That isn't a fantasy world, but is stone cold reality staring you in the face!!! You are living in a fantasy world!!! Why do just a few things that you "think" that he has done that are "good" for the country blind you and close your mind to seeing and admitting the far greater number of EVIL!!!! things that he has done?!! That makes you and all other Trumpophiles as gullible and self-deceived about him as the Germans were about Hitler or as religious people are about their myths!! So, you can't honestly claim to be smarter than they are when you are actually just as gullible as they are!!!
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Lionheart
Nov 3rd is going to be very interesting isn’t it? I’m hoping your ailing geriatric nominee doesn’t win for the good of the country.
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Norma Battes
Well, I'm not sure of the "anti-Christ", so let's just say a non-believer. However, as one Lionheart has stated there are many presently that are also faithless and seemingly only care for their own personal gains. Which I'm sure you feel is un-Christian. Jesus said, in not so many words, that we must love and care for each other. Obviously such is not taken universally(insert slight chuckle here). Let me ask you, do you think the world is getting more, same or less violent? Answer first then proceed-----------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^>>>>>>
<<<==. Ok. So by chance I came across a documentary on that question. And surprisingly(to me) studies show it is getting less violent. Why? More people. Back when civilization(ahem) in the ten's of millions, much of humanity was fighting - simply we were savages, all. But as population expanded the greater and greater masses became more civilized realizing working WITH others is better that killing, warring and TAKING from others. Any guess at to the greatest kill-off of humankind by humankind? Genghis Kahn! Best estimate, 10 million people. Million, with a M!(That phrase doesn't work like it being said verbally.) World War II was big but not compared to the total population of earth in the 1940s.
So why all this jibber-jabber? We, the good guys, sane, peaceful, honest and people like you and me outnumber the "other" types by billions(yup a B !) and we can make this all good. But we have to do something. Jibber-jabber here and comment boxes at news sites and social media is fine for information but we must follow this with action. So, I suggest, go talk with people. Talk with you neighbor, your cousin, the barista that hands you your coffee. And only those that feel as you do, that all this is just too weird. You are not trying to turn the other, and definitely not the whacky-ola that thinks a 1911 is the answer to the "commie-socialists" infecting their country. Your purpose from now to November is to get them to the polls and vote(Make sure they're registered, legal, yada-yada.). That's all there is to it. Get them to talk about "us" and not "I". Anyone telling you their 401k is gangbusters, tell them an old woman is losing her Medicare, or a kid eats peanut butter sandwiches because single mom can't afford a hot school lunch. One getting while another doesn't is called a zero sum game - lose one to get one.
Remember: WE OUTNUMBER THEM!
Have a blessed week.
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Hazel
I don't think religion has any place in the White House. Regardless of whether a person is religious in any affiliation, atheist or anything else, it should not make any difference as long as he or she is capable fulfilling his or her duties as President.
Having religion in the White House always ends up respecting the establishment of one religion over all others. the present administration is trying to force its conservative religious views on everyone else.
Whenever I hear someone say they believe in freedom of religion, I always ask them "Whose religion? Yours? Or other religions also?" There is a reason there is separation of church and state in the Constitution. I for one don't want someone else's religion crammed down my throat.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
It all boils down to one thing. Christianity sucks!!!
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Lionheart
I think I would go a little further and remove the word “Christianity” and replace it with “religion”.
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Chaplain Burgess
Religion divides! Spirituality brings us together! Debate is healthy!
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Rev. Jonathan Peebles
I am still waiting for the woman president the others just want war. We need a real change not someone who just preaches about it and its all lies. I hope we do get a president who keeps religion out of it; besides I doubt I will ever see a nature loving pagan in office sadly...
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Rev. Don
It is evident by the result of the 2016 presidential election that Americans DO NOT want God in the White House.
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Norma Battes
2016? Think so?
I'd say it seems they wanted God. The president touted his faith and religion and people bought the ruse and voted him in. And now over the last 3 years the nation has seen this president's true colors and it has swung the other way. The overreaction is not good either.
Sadly what most seem to miss is that this president isn't as pious or religious as he proclaims. Quite the contrary, rude, vulgar, insincerity from a sad and pathetic human being. What his followers like is the divisiveness, the vengeful retribution against what they perceive as a unfair world.
As stated elsewhere here, President Carter wasn't an effective leader of the country, but then he wasn't wantonly corrupt and deceitful either. He was a good and faithful man, just not a dynamic leader. Well, we have a dynamic leader now. And it's not coming cheap.
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Wayward73
We the people don't elect the President, The Electoral College(a committee of The House of Representatives) does.
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Tabitha
I was asked to sell my soul one time..... but I couldn’t stomach being a Christian or a Republican, and had to refuse
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Norma Battes
You can be neither. Others here have offer their souls, so long as someone ELSE is getting screwed.
(I'll assume your /S/.)
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Robert Scott Jackson
Keep religion out of politics out of our public schools. The right wing religious people in the country want nothing but power and money. They bomb people and tell us its for our own good.
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Karl Axel Lindström
religion has no place in politics! it always leads to bad things in the end! Also incidentally the it always strikes me as funny when people try to insist the US is a christian country... states are boring! you don't wanna associate your religion with that....
Sweden at least had Christianity as a state religion for a long time... and as a result swedes are almost all atheists... because its not interesting!!! religious freedom l means religions can compete and evolve and adapt themselves better to their believers... with a state religion all you get is stagnation...
it's a pity the French inquisition expunged most of the Gnostic cults because they would have fit much better into modern society...
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Robert H Donahue
I don't believe you can show any correlation between one's Christian values and success in the White House. Arguably the most devoutly Christian to serve in the White House in recent decades was Jimmy Carter. He is also generally seen as one of the most ineffective Presidents. There is no correlation, so it really doesn't matter what the President's personal religious beliefs are.
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Norma Battes
Agreed. Nor their political ideology it seems. Personal character appears to be one prominent determining factor.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
And if you think moderation is something Mike, try guessing where they're going to put your comment, if they do post it.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I don't agree with you Mike. I bet that will get posted. Keep guessing. One of these days you might figure it out, or you might simply accept it.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I don't think it matters whether or not a president has religious beliefs, but do believe in keeping religion out of our government. Since a lot of religious politicians seem to have a hard time doing that I think it would be certainly worth having an atheist president for a change, at least to see what a difference it makes.
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Norma Battes
Do you mean agnostic over atheist? Hmmm, "an atheist president for a change"? But I thought.... Well, I guess there's a difference in an atheist president and an agnostic that claims to believe in a god just to get votes.
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William Leon Barfield
Religion and politics should be separate issues and should not mix.
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Wayward73
I wholeheartedly agree with you.
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Darryl Mizer
Absolutely out! Of course, presidents will have their personal relationship with God, or not. However to make policy on these beliefs for the country is obscene and dangerous. Example: the abortion controversy. This is a religious matter. A question at best. Anyone heard of the Taliban? Their religious mission is based on destroying the infidels. This is a "slippery slope".
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Roy C. Wilson
I am disgusted by some here posting their partison political viewpoints. I don't believe that this is in the framework of the comprehensive inclusion of "all children of the same universe". It is also somewhat repulsive to see some engaged in partison religion here. Is this really what we want our Universal Life Church to engage in? I believe that it would destroy us.
Please go and wave your flags and symbols elsewhere. This church is ment to include all, atheists and believers of every persuasion.
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Roy C. Wilson
I forgot to add that I vote for issues not the person.
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Norma Battes
Mr. Wilson, I read somewhere about false prophets. Find some comfort in that.
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Minister Mike
Is there a ULC rule that we must agree with each other?
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Paul J. Fumero
I want religion out of politics or lose their tax free status and be forced to register as a political party, I specifically want the Evangelicals making trouble for everybody.out of public life and politics.
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David A Griffith
I am with you all the way. Religion is destroying this country with their backward ideas. Every time in history things are beginning to change for the better the Christians have fought it. It says a lot about why Republicans are so intent on fighting progress and progressives.
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Rev. Sandy
Right now the devil is in the White House who thinks he is god. So God is most welcome to bring back some decency, morals and values back to America.
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Robert Edward Szekely
Since Nietschze, there has been recognition of increasing secularism in Western culture and society. Presently, we're also finding that spiritual traditions and religiosity are becoming increasingly more diverse with the growth of New Religious Movements such as Wicca, LaVeyan and Deistic Satanists, as well as non-denominational Christians, Unitarian Universalism, Gnosticism, Messianic Jews, Hasidim, Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, Taoists, Zoroastrians, Baha'i, Asatru, Pantheism, etc. Among the Founding Fathers, Thomas Jefferson was a supporter of people worshipping according the personal dictates of their conscience, whatever that may be: I will add to that, as long the doctrines of their particular tradition or sect doesn't entail the causing harm to others, such as slaying infidels, murdering abortion clinic doctors, or treating certain groups of people as 'less than human' or 'less equal or worthy than others' such as those belonging within the LGBTQI+ group by denying them service. While we remain free to worship, the legislature--regardless of at what level--does not exist to force the religious dogma of a prevailing group over that of a minority group: for example Sunday Blue Laws or trying to outlaw abortion. If your creed tells you that abortion is wrong, then that applies to you personally. We do not have the right to impose those notions which are based upon any specific religious doctrine through the legal system, upon a group which is comprised of individuals who, can we say, are "spiritually heterogeneous". That group is the American Nation. America is not a theocracy. Christian values and ethics are not what constitute the foundation of our legal system. We are obligated to establish and cement that common ground that serves all American citizens well, and not only those of a specific creed. That is exactly what many of the initial settlers fled Mother England for--freedom of worship. We therefore, cannot now establish merely another flavor of state-endorsed faith and give the official imprimateur of American: for that is not what America stands for. We must remember the true, and original motto of our nation, before we we let our hysterical fear of so-called "godless" Communism overtake us (during the reign of the USSR, the East Orthodox church thrived underground): "E Pluribus Unum" (From Many, One). An atheist President will serve only reason - which is the only philosophical common ground that we as Americans can ever truly expect to have.
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Jim
Yea like Schiff and Nancy are righteous. I don't like the man in the white house either but I like where he has taken the country. At least he has put America First and its about time someone did.
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Robert Edward Szekely
Trump borders on fascism. I'd watch him closely, as I'm waiting for him to snap.
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Lionheart
I totally agree with you Jim. He is possibly getting very close to godlike status with his achievements don’t you think? And better still, unlike all the gods, he actually shows up for us.
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Darryl Mizer
OMG
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Norma Battes
You sound Caucasian.
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John D. Partin
"America First" in what, though, Jim? First in covid-19 deaths and cases around the world?! First in corruption and incompetence?! First in every other country and its leaders calling our "president" an IDIOT?!!! First in our own media (except for his ass kissers and brown nosers!) calling him an IDIOT?!!! First in cruelty and indifference to immigrants coming up here for asylum from gangs who were terrorizing them by refusing them entry or putting them in cages like animals?!!! First in racism toward black people, as demonstrated by his constantly attacking our first black President Barack Obama?!! First in racism toward Muslims and restricting their immigration into the U.S.?!! What other firsts than bad firsts are you talking about this "president"'s having given to America?!! With enough "first places" of his kind, we won't need any last place because we will already be there!! With "friends" like him, we don't need enemies!!!
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The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti
I love this president. He has under promised and over delivered. He has promised to put originalists on SCOTUS but he also has appointed over 180 originalist judges to the district courts and circuit courts of appeals. He promised to move the US embassy in Israel to Jerusalem but he also recognized Israel's right to the Golan Heights. He promised to improve the energy sector of the economy but now the US is energy independent and even exports coal and natural gas. He stands up for ordinary people, especially our veterans, and, above all, he loves God and America. He defends the US Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the Office of the Presidency. He has accomplished an astonishing array of excellent improvements in the USA and in other countries, in spite of a constant stream of hatred and unprecedented opposition from the far left. If we love God, we should also love our fellow Americans as brothers and sisters. In fact, we should love all people. God is love and love is God. Although God fills all space, we find Him by searching within. Therefore, God is in the Whitehouse helping and guiding our president whether we know it or not, and whether we like it or not. During this Presidents Day season, we should take some time to reflect on how much better the USA is now than it was three years ago. Then we can offer our prayer of thanks to God for his multitude of blessings, including our blessed President Trump. Peace be with you and all our fellow ministers.
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Minister Mike
You, of course, have the right to be wrong.
The current president of the United States has made the entire country to be perceived as hateful, bigoted, greedy, and selfish - not something your jesus would be proud of.
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Asa William Sprague, II
"God is love and love is God. Although God fills all space, we find Him by searching within. Therefore, God is in the Whitehouse helping and guiding our president whether we know it or not, and whether we like it or not."
Are you implying that God guided this Administration to separate children from their parents and place them in cages? That does not sound like Love. Are you implying that God guided this President to tell over 10,000 lies over the past three years? That does not sound like Love. Are you implying that God guided this President into cursing at his enemies during a national prayer breakfast? Mathew 5:44 (KJV) - But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
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Darryl Mizer
I really need to share Matthew 25:27-40
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
I'm not confused about what I see. I see nothing but an attitude of evil.
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Norma Battes
...unless you are: 1) Brown skinned 2) Enlightened 3) The lower 80% of the economic strata 4) LGBTQ 5) Muslim 6) Just plain old
Then you can't all die and burn in hell soon enough.
You stand in the light of God's Grace Reverend. I'm sure.
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John D. Partin
"Rev. Dr." Marion Ceruti, considering that even Adolf Hitler was praised to the skies by some clergymen and dignitaries in the Church as "the God sent Savior of Germany", it isn't surprising that Trumpelstiltskin would find favor in your and other conservatives' eyes and elicit your praises, and all that means about as much for him as it did for Hitler, since it is so easy and requires no actual beneficial actions for society on his part to get it!! Are you really praising this idiot and uncaring rotten-hearted dog Trumpelstiltskin, who has caused over 80,000 people to die from covid-19 because he was so slow in even taking the virus seriously, thinking that it was a "hoax from the Democrats", and not even helping the Governors to get adequate supplies of swabs, test kits, PPE, and other requirements for their nurses, doctors, and other front line first responders to fight this pandemic?!! That doesn't show any "great love for America", but only indifference to and hatred of Americans!!! Why should you or anyone thank God for someone like that?!! This "president" is a curse on this country, not a blessing, and cares ONLY!!! about himself, not about the American people!! Ask any of those people whose family members have died because of this rotten "president's" policies, slowness, inaction, and indifference if they praise God for something like him?!! God didn't guide him into making those uncaring decisions that have cost so many people their lives!!! That is ridiculous for you to say something like that!! Even if you think that this "president" has "done some good for the country" and even if he has done some little bit of good, that doesn't excuse this overwhelming EVIL!!!! that he has done and other EVILS!! that he has done since he stole the presidency, anymore than Hitler and the Nazis' doing a few good things for Germany excused the overwhelming EVIL!!! that they committed!! He doesn't defend the U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Office of the Presidency when he has a corrupt administration and "Attorney General" Bill Barr, who released Michael Flynn, and has defiled the Presidency by telling over 18,000 lies since he stole the presidency (with the help of election meddling by Russia!!!) and his habitual use of profanity (this "Godly leader" of yours!!!) and the sexual harassment, misconduct, and assault charges that have been filed against him by 22 women!!!! He nominated a drunk corrupt sexual abuser for the Supreme Court and the Senate, under his power and in fear of him, put that disgrace on the Supreme Court!!! Then, there is his rotten conduct and policies toward immigrants who came up here seeking asylum from gangs in Central America who were terrorizing them and his racist policies toward Muslims!!! Why are you praising and defending a "man" such as this, if you are actually a man of God yourself and know the difference between right and wrong and good and evil?!! "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter" (Isaiah 5:20). This isn't "a constant stream of hatred and unprecedented opposition from the far left", as you put it, but only the TRUTH!!! and the word of your own Scriptures, as just quoted to you here!! Yes, we should love other Americans, but that doesn't mean loving everything that some of them, such as this "president", do or say and making excuses for it. If you could remove your conservative and right-wing blinders, you would be able to see and admit the truth and logic of that and stop excusing and standing up for that EVIL!!! "man" in the White House and denounce "him", as he deserves!!!
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John D. Partin
It has been a week now since my post here above against Trumpelstiltskin and Marion Ceruti's praise of him and still no response from him and defense of that so-called "president" against my and many other people's charges against him here!! That is because he has no defense against those charges, since there are none!!! So, prove me and the other people here wrong about your "president" by offering your defenses against all these charges!! It will be amusing to read, anyway, even if not logical, reasonable or factual!! We will be waiting to read it!!
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Darryl Mizer
AMEN
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flugo
God IS in the White House! He's omnipresent. His short term and long range plans are precisely coming to pass as He sees fit. NO one can thwart Him! We best acknowledge His perfect supremacy and dominion over ALL!
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Minister Mike
But which god? There are a multitude of them, ya' know.
And which plans. Give us at least one short and one long term plan.
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Norma Battes
But which god? "
"Polytheism, the belief in many gods. Polytheism characterizes virtually all religions other than 𝑱𝒖𝒅𝒂𝒊𝒔𝒎, 𝑪𝒉𝒓𝒊𝒔𝒕𝒊𝒂𝒏𝒊𝒕𝒚, 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝑰𝒔𝒍𝒂𝒎, which share a common tradition of monotheism, the belief in one God." -- Britannica
I assume you are not a minister of any of these?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Flugo, domination and submission is only a game to be played in the bedroom. And who wants God to take part in that? Sounds kind of kinky, doesn't it?
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Lionheart
Oh my God! Oh my God! Can actually be heard from many bedrooms Carl. So I can only assume that many people actually do take their God with them when they go to sleep 🤪
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Not more than one spirit can inhabit a body at the same time,flugo, unless they first meld together into one. Any Witch will tell you that. Good and evil are opposites, so they can't meld together, although within ourselves, like everything else, it's best to maintain a healthy balance between the two, according to the Kybalion of Hermes Trismegistus by three initiates, which Hermes spoke of long before the Bible was written. I, and many others would say that the one in the oval office right now is iether posessed by an evil entity, or is evil personified. Therefore, in the same place, at the same time, God cannot be present. That is universal law, which The All (God( Good Orderly Direction) created, and cannot oppose.
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Norma Battes
Is the god of Moses and the god of Abraham the same god? If they are the same, is one good and the other evil? If they are not the same, is one good and the other evil? If they are the same, and they are both good, can they not inhabit my body at the same time? If they are not the same, and they are both good, can they not inhabit my body at the same time?
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Rev Ned
Are you saying 45 is God?????
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Lionheart
I’m actually not too sure what a God really is, but looking at the results that President Trump has achieved so far in his last four years I would say he’s getting pretty close to it. At least he shows up and tries to do something, which is more than any gods seem to be able to do. Just saying!
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Norma Battes
Interesting. From what I've read about him the last 20 years, and seen the last 3, Satan comes to mind. At the very least, a degenerate.
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Lionheart
He is a strange character to say the least, but he seems to be doing a very good job of getting the country back on its feet.
I guess it’s Hail Satan then 🤪
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Norma Battes
More appropriately, Heil Trump.
For a sad and lonely little man you at least realize you have no concept.
Grace upon you. From the unknown.
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Lionheart
I’m wondering if you are referring to Donald Trump, or myself. He is like me, well over 6 feet tall, and neither of us are lonely as we both have wonderful attractive wives and families.
This November is going to be very interesting isn’t it? If we do have another 4 years of our current President, which I strongly suspect we will, it’s going to be very interesting to see how Democrats deal with it. That is of course if they can!
It actually seems to me that Democrats have no concept, as evidenced by Pelosi, Sanders, Warren, Schumer, Schiff, the squad etc, but I guess we’ll find out in November.
🦁❤️
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Norma Battes
I said little, not short. And you are in fact much alike to Mr. Trump, wives and relations aside, more in character and demeanor.
You equate your marriage and offspring as a measure of loneliness? Interesting. Lonely is an emotion not a situational circumstance as in your lifestyle - I have therefore I am. I knew a man, married to a loving and caring woman for decades with 3 beautiful daughters. The wife died of cancer, he drank himself to death within a year and left 3 teenage children to fend for themselves. I count as blessings Christians, Krishna and Buddhist monks that I've met that were single or otherwise celibate that were quite happy.
I don't know your life, however I read in your numerous posts a sense of angst and frustration. Not quite hate but a disdain, in particular for anyone that finds comfort in their faith. And you spare no inch in your vitriol to disparage not just the person, the individual, you tear at their beliefs. With seeming delight you savage the very fabric that holds them together, in heart, in mind and soul. You diminish their God as so much trash and them as fools. One wonders why you chose this website to haunt its visitors.
What I hope for you, that you find comfort and peace, and not dread in your life.
Take care
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Lionheart
You actually couldn’t be more wrong. I have no problem at all with people having the beliefs that they obviously need to help them get through this life. I am totally happy for those people who need religion and it’s not my intention to try and take them away from their belief. However, when people with those beliefs structures start quoting passages and sentences from an old book in a vein attempt to prove everyone else wrong, some even telling people they will go to Hell if they don’t take upon them the name of someone they call a savior I will chime in with my comments and rebut their claims. I’m sorry you read in my posts a sense of angst and frustration. Again, nothing could be further from the truth. I enjoy reading peoples comments even though they may disagree with mine because we are all on some type of path to get through this life as lovingly as possible.
What I hope for you is that you find comfort and peace, and especially freedom of thought when you read my comments, and other peoples comments, that do not agree with yours.
🦁❤️
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Norma Battes
“ You actually couldn’t be more wrong. I have no problem at all with people having the beliefs that they obviously need to help them get through this life.“
Add condescending to the list. One of the disappointments of chatting through comment boxes is the lack of originality. When I say something to someone it’s bounced back to me, e.g. … comfort and peace. It is like talking to myself which is neither stimulating no fun. In the future I will make a greater attempt to tolerate your comments and refrain from interjecting on your beliefs. Good day
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Darryl Mizer
There's a whole lot more to life than $$.
Children in cages who have been charged with nothing more than breathing air in the US.Turning his back on the validity of climate change, lying every day. I can't believe anything he says. This is not a president. This is malignant narcissist who places "yes" people around him and fires the ones who don't. We have someone who believes he is an actor wearing makeup and eye brightener. I'm 75 and remember presidents back to Eisenhower. He is neither fit or sufficiently mature to be in this high place of office. I can't put money over common humanity and morality.
Just my opinion. I'm not asking anyone to agree. Thanks.
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Darryl Mizer
PS I'm still amazed how Christians believe this is okay. Money before humanity?
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Lionheart
Did you know that so far 1900 children have been separated from parents at the border under President Trump.
RESULT: Media Frenzy.
Under President Obama 89,000 children were separated from parents at the border.
RESULT: Silence.
Have you ever wondered why there are no Democrats on Mount Rushmore?
ME NEITHER
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Darryl Mizer
89,000? Wonder if they were in cages or ever found their families? At my age I hear more things everyday. Back to Obama rather than trying to avoid Trump's actions. Lionheart, Where is evidence of your claims? Whatever, it doesn't have anything to do with Obama.
If what Obama did is your defense against Trump, you have no defense.
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Lionheart
Every administration has to deal with the previous administrations policies/legacies. It will never be any different.
Here you will see how and why it was necessary to build what the media would like to call “cages”. Notice the left wing media preferred not to call them cages under Obama’s administration.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/baracks-ice-chief-cages-were-obamas-idea
🦁❤️
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Darryl Mizer
I'm 75. I didn't know the country was off it's feet before he got in. He is the antithesis of goodness and mercy. MAGA was a ploy to have people BELIEVE it was true.
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arawngraalrd
What people perceive as a "Higher Power," is not such a big deal, as whether a person credits that there might be a higher power. I support friendly relations between God and the Wu-Wei, but that's hardly a conversation for the campaign trail.
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Minister Mike
And, again, why are all my comments being held for approval?
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Dave J
Probably because Chaplain Burgess complained that you are making him look like a repetitive whiner.
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Chaplain Burgess
Nope, like most people who will swallow anything blame someone without any evidence. It's a public discourse! I love the debates. Sweetie!
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Chaplain Burgess
NOPE! Unlike you sir I know of what I speak and stand outside of group approval proudly! FAKE NEWS
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Chaplain Burgess
Nope you are publicly incorrect. Don't worship that man Dave!
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Minister Mike
Dave, how does one report posts/posters?
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Norma Battes
A while back I prayed to God for this very same thing. God said send an email to themonastery.org
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Don't be a crybaby., Mike. They've been moderating all of my comments for years, and I never complain. This isn't a free for all. I'm glad any of mine ever get posted.
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Minister Mike
I don't mind if God visits the White House. Or even moves in. I'd like to see the elected resident live by Jesus' teachings - not try to foist Christianity or any other religion on others.
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Minister Carlos Ricardo Walls
I read where God dwells in people.So God is everywhere.Although some choose not to tap into the God within.
The Goddess is more than welcome in the White House and everywhere else on the planet. Whether you call her the goddess, God, Jesus, Jehovah or any other name or combination of names, She is welcome.
It is the intolerant, my way or death, screw people's rights, right wing fanatics who have no love, only hate that are not welcome in the White house. The control people's body, the denial love because of same sex, the Misogyny, the twisting bible for personal power sorts that don't belong. There is a reason why each person has freedom of religion but government is FORBIDDEN from establishing religion and make laws for religion.