Religious leaders in Washington D.C. and around the country expressed outrage over President Trump’s evening visit to St. John’s Episcopal Church on Monday, decrying it as a "photo-op" and lambasting the violent police tactics used to disperse peaceful protesters gathered outside the house of worship.
Nationwide protests against the death of George Floyd, an unarmed black man in police custody, have been ongoing since May 26th in over 200 cities. Governors in 23 states have called in the National Guard, and 12 major cities have implemented curfews.
Those protests have reached the gates of the White House, and on Monday police used tear gas, flash-bangs, and rubber bullets to disperse the crowds – which included some local clergy. That cleared the way for President Trump to visit St. John’s Episcopal Church, where he held up a Bible and posed for cameras.
Sincere Gesture or Cynical Photo-Op?
Some people were supportive of the visit – noting its symbolic significance after the church was targeted by vandals the night before. However, others leveled fierce criticism, taking issue with the overly aggressive tactics used to clear a peaceful protest and the White House's apparent willingness to use police force for a PR opportunity.
Reverend Gini Gerbasi, rector at a different St. John’s, was one of the religious leaders driven off by advancing troops. She was at the protests to hand out food and water, gave a firsthand account of the action on Facebook.
“Suddenly, around 6:30, there was more tear gas, more concussion grenades, and I think I saw someone hit by a rubber bullet - he was grasping his stomach and there was a mark on his shirt,” she said. “PEOPLE WERE HURT SO THAT HE COULD POSE IN FRONT OF THE CHURCH WITH A BIBLE! HE WOULD HAVE HAD TO STEP OVER THE MEDICAL SUPPLIES WE LEFT BEHIND BECAUSE WE WERE BEING TEAR GASSED!!!!“
Gerbasi didn't hold back when speaking with a local CBS affiliate, saying “I was coughing with tear gas in my clergy collar, and my gray hair, and my old-lady reading glasses, so that that man could stand there and hold a Bible in his hand and look Christian.”
President Trump spoke briefly in front of St. Johns, bible in-hand. The official White House Twitter account later uploaded a video of his walk to and from the church.
Faith Leaders React
Judging by the reaction of religious leaders, whatever message the White House thought it was sending didn't resonate as intended. For many, the decision to pose with the Bible was not just tone-deaf, but downright insulting. The Jesuit priest James Martin wrote on Twitter:
"Let me be clear. This is revolting. The Bible is not a prop. A church is not a photo op. Religion is not a political tool. God is not your plaything."
Archbishop Wilton Gregory of the Washington D.C. Archdiocese expressed a similar view in a strong statement released yesterday:
"I find it baffling and reprehensible that any Catholic facility would allow itself to be so egregiously misused and manipulated in a fashion that violates our religious principles, which call us to defend the rights of all people even those with whom we might disagree. Saint Pope John Paul II was an ardent defender of the rights and dignity of human beings. His legacy bears vivid witness to that truth. He certainly would not condone the use of tear gas and other deterrents to silence, scatter or intimidate them for a photo opportunity in front of a place of worship and peace."
Rt. Rev. Michael Curry, presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church, said the president’s visit “did nothing to help or heal us,” and was done for “partisan political purposes.”
The president of Interfaith Alliance, Rabbi Jack Moline, the use of force to disperse protesters so President Trump could walk to a church for a photo-op was “one of the most flagrant misuses of religion I have ever seen."
The White House defended the move, saying that they gave protesters three warnings to disperse. And faith advisors in the president’s circle showed support, as well. Rev. Johnnie Moore, who is on Trump’s Evangelical Advisory Board, made it clear that he approved of the decision, writing on Twitter:
"I will never forget seeing @realDonaldTrump slowly & in-total-command walk from the @WhiteHouse across Lafayette Square to St. John's Church defying those who aim to derail our national healing by spreading fear, hate & anarchy. After just saying, 'I will keep you safe.'"
197 comments
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Paul J. Fumero
Trump's bible stunt was a message to his GOP Evangelical base. Of course the dummy held the bible wrong. He deserves nothing but condemnation for such disrespect towards Jesus Teachings. I believe GOP Evangelicals to be the dark-one's secret weapon. I fully expected his hands to burst into flames at that point.
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Brenten Stevens
Correct 👍🏼
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Lionheart
Oh! There's a right and wrong way to hold a book of what appears, for the most part, to be a compilation of mythical tales and fiction, unless of course someone can prove otherwise?
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Brother David
Lionheart, even you know that there is a top and botton of a book. I get you don't believe in the bible but your babble speaks volumes.No responce is needed. The man DT in the picture needs to stop pretending, first at rallies he clams free speach and if some one opposes, he cuts them off. And now the seperation of church and state and his antics to clear his walk and cause harm to christians and non violent protesters, SHAMEFUL . God help us. Brother David
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Lionheart
Actually, it looks as though he's holding it by the top of the book which is quite normal, but then when asked to have a photo taken he raised his arm which then turned the book upside down. Prior to that it was the right side up. It's quite amazing isn't it what people will find wrong with a President that is at last getting the country back on its feet. It's almost as though they want this country to fail. It's going to be very interesting to see what happens if he gets back in for another 4 years. I'm sure Democrats will be crying in their milk yet again, and will be searching for another impeachment while throwing the baby bottle out of the crib.
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, as I wrote to you in Do Fewer Americans Want God in the White House?, are you really so HYPNOTIZED, BRAINWASHED, AND CONNED!!!! by that IDIOT TRUMPELSTILTSKIN!!! in the White House that you can't see that his tear gassing and driving peaceful protesters off the streets in Washington, D.C. and violating their Constitutional right to protest just so that he could have a photo op and stupidly hold up a Bible (which you call a book of fairy tales and condemn the rest of the time!) is WRONG?!! or have you lost any moral sense or decency that you ever had where that guy is concerned?!! Why do you make excuses for everything that he does and refuse to see and admit that anything he ever does is WRONG!!!, except because you are hypnotized, brainwashed, and conned by him all the time?!!! Only if promoting and fomenting violence in this country and supporting police brutality against protesters and black people, generally, is "getting the country back on its feet" can he be credited with doing that!! Not wanting police brutality or discriminatory practices by police against black people isn't wanting the country to fail, but is wanting the country to succeed and live up to its promise of equal justice and equality for all!!! That isn't what you and other brainwashed Trumpophiles want because you are on the side of inequality, oppression, police brutality, racial injustice, and voter suppression!! You are as gullible about your "president" as the Germans were about Hitler or as other religious people are about their religious myths, while still criticizing those people---all the time practicing your religion of Trumpianity!!! That is a double standard and HYPOCRISY!!! on your part!!
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Anisahoni
Oh, John, if only those who are brainwashed would read,"The Cult of Trump", by Steven Hassan, and "The Plot to Destroy Democracy" by Malcolm Nance.
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John D. Partin
Amen to that, Catherine Ohrin-Greipp!!!
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Lionheart
My comment will appear below in Terikson’s post when it has been approved by the moderators. I’m sorry for your derisory reply. Don’t worry though, we had to endure 8 years of Obama, so if we can endure him selling us out without crying I’m sure that you will have no problem with 4 more years of Trump.
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, 8 years of Obama were only something to endure for Fascists and Right-Wingers, such as yourself, but were no problem at all for all right-thinking people, whereas just 3 and a half or four years by the end of it have been way too much and will have been too much for those same right-thinking people, even if they were "Heaven on Earth" for all you WRONG!!!-"thinking" and Fascistic people!! But, honestly, you will get along just great without that Hitler wannabe Trumpelstiltskin in the White House, even if you don't think so now, and will adjust to sensible government, in time, and the rest of us will be just having a fantastic time and throwing a party and shouting for joy when that IDIOT!!! is kicked out of the White House on January 20!!! Oh, Happy Days!!!! and good riddance to bad rubbish!!!
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John D. Partin
Lionheart and all other Trumpophiles, I saw this video of a song parodying "Let's Go Out To The Ballpark" on YouTube on The Stephen Colbert Show with our so-called "president" in the stands at the World Series Game No. 5 and it is fantastic!! Here are the lyrics: TAKE HIM OUT OF THE OFFICE. DRAG HIM OUT IF YOU MUST. GO BACK TO TRUMP STEAKS AND LOUSY HOTELS. PLEASE TAKE ERIC AND JUNIOR AS WELL. WE ALL ROOT ROOT ROOT FOR IMPEACHMENT. IF TRUMP'S NOT REMOVED IT'S INSANE. FOR IT'S ONE TERM IS MORE THAN ENOUGH YOU'RE A SHAME, SHAME, SHAME.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
You know LH I get your far right, bordering a cultist of that guy. But normally you seem to try to come across as civil for the most part. Sadly it seems you show yourself now to put your politics before reason just as so many you argue with here and condemn for doing the same with their chosen faith.
Hate on Hilldog fine, hate on BO fine, no leader has been without flaws. But there is literally not one thing that can be traced back specifically to being a Drumpf original idea that has been of any benefit to this country under the current administration. He has done nothing these recent weeks but as usual stick his foot in it, open his big mouth, and make a mockery of the office, whatever good exists within our history, and now literally desecrated sacred ground with authoritarian violence( something that has been almost universally agreed upon by political scholars world wide that drumpfs latests acts are absolutely the acts of an authoritarian regime.
I mean if you cant at least extend civil respect to those of other faiths, and understand how the choice of Drumpf to not wait 15 minutes for the protesters to disperse by 7 pm as they had done the previous days, was a clear act by the admin to incite and force a conflict by abusing the so called need to keep the president safe by treating everyone there as a threat, was a clear abuse of power, and a utter desecration of that church. I am no christian, not even fond of them by and large, but to give needless disrespect that place, and true followers of the faith is the stuff of darkest history come back into the light in modern times.
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Lionheart
Yes he’s certainly a very different type of character isn’t he, but my other option is Joe Biden, a man who doesn’t seem to know what day it is, and also a man who has a very strange fascination for little children. Then there’s a party that has a Speaker of the House that clearly is an alcoholic. And then theirs AOC, and Illan Omar, who clearly are either way over their heads, or not quite right in their heads so......Trump it is. It’s sad isn’t it, that these are the best America has to offer, but that’s the way it is, Trump, or the very senile Biden.
Let’s see how America votes. I have a sneaking suspicion that most of America fear voting for a man suffering from dementia, Joe Biden. Does he even know he’s running in an election?
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, you constantly talk about Joe Biden's "senility" and gaffs (again following your brainwasher's indoctrination and propaganda against him!!), and say that "he doesn't even know that he's running for President", claiming that that makes him "unfit for the Presidency". But you, quite inconsistently, don't think that your "president's" senility of telling 18,000 ÷ lies since entering the White House, while claiming to be an "honest" man, and claiming to be a "billionaire" and "to have done it all on his own", when it is well known and has been reported in the NY Times and elsewhere that he isn't as rich as he claims to be and got his money from his daddy---not by his own efforts (and screwed up his businesses when he tried to run things, the same as he has done to this country!!), and played around with his own daughter, since you try to accuse Biden of pedophilia, prove that Trumpelstiltskin is unfit to be president!!! That is a very selective double standard that you operate by regarding these two guys. As you say, "these are the best America has to offer, and that's the way it is" and no candidate for President or incumbent President is ever going to be perfect, but given the choice between Joe Biden, who makes gaffs, now and then, and your JOKE!!! excuse for a "president", who is so SENILE!!!! and PEDOPHILIC!!! that he lies all the time, and lies about himself and his "accomplishments", and plays around with his own daughter---and played around with 22 other women!, and put a drunk sexual abuser on the Supreme Court, all sensible and moral people will have to go for Joe Biden over your guy and put Biden in the White House in November---and throw Trumpelstiltskin down the stairs and out on his ass on the street, and tell him to "GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!!!", if he refuses to leave voluntarily on January 20!!! I would LOVE!!! to see that happen on TV, as would most other people in the country and the world!!!
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Lionheart
November 3rd is going to be very interesting isn’t it?
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Crystal D Minter
Indeed Jesus take the wheel , we cant take this anymore this president has us divided someone please show this man the door
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Lionheart
Is it possible your Jesus has already taken the wheel and that’s why we have the President we have? Don’t forget that your god moves in mysterious ways. Perhaps he’s what we need during these perilous times, whether you agree with your god or not.
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Angelene Moore
Brother David, I wouldn't go no further with Lionheart or have other folks to deal with him. He has made it very clear on his opinion and disposition. We see what his mind set is all about. It's not worth going back and forth with him. He's a Trump man and he has made it clear. However, we know that Trump has torn our people and country a part since he's been in office. Maybe, he did one or two good things, but the good does not out weigh the bad. For this year 2020, Trump has become a disaster to the people and our country. People need to get right in the word of God who has a plan as it is written in the bible. Trump will go down in history as an impeached president and that will not go away. We just have to keep praying for him and all his cronies who supports him. It's all about love and Trump has only shown love for the wrong doers. That is just my opinion.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
To me,it looked like he held it up to throw it in a trash can. As soon as the cameras were off of him I bet that's what he did.
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Brett Mallory
It was another scene from his ongoing reality TV series available for all the world to watch, "The Show of Force: Starring Donald J. Trump" His obedient and subservient minion trailing him were mere supporting actors. And the mindless, order-taking police, who fired upon peaceful protesters, marched straight out of central casting to be part of the show.
The peaceful protesters became, unwitting and unpaid, extras. Trump, who staged the entire scene, used the church as a backdrop and the bible, which he held as if it were burning the palm of his hand, as a prop. Yet his handling of the bible is apropos. Because it mirrors his handing of this country and the US Constitution. Which he has also turned upside down.
We've had almost 4 years of this daily Reality TV Show, that should have been canceled in it's first season. And, in fact, should never have been picked up in the first place. But I'm hoping and praying that my sane, loving, peaceful, and true patriotic citizens of this country DO NOT renew this awful, horrible, despicable, really bad show for 4 more years!
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Angelene Moore
Brother Brett, I loved the way you put it. It's like music to my ears. Great way of telling the facts. You know Trump think he's a star? He is just BAD NEWS!
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Lionheart
Don’t forget that we had to endure four extra years of the Obama virus. It takes some time to correct his mishandling of this wonderful country. We were well on the way to correcting that before Covid-19 but I’m sure you will see further trends in our economy under another four more years of Trump.
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Anisahoni
President Barack Hussein Obama was respected by world leaders, but not the dictators that Dump admires. He was diplomatic, He was and is kind and loving. He was and is a family man. He didn't denigrate Purple Heart recipients or Gold Star families or people of other races. He did attend church with his family. It wasn't" ME ME ME" like this word salad and demented POTUS we have today. The Draft dodging Coward in Chief/Bone Spurs is a demented, racist, misogynist evil and incompetent toddler.
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Lionheart
Let’s see if the electorate agrees with you on November 3rd. Hopefully they won’t so that we can continue making our borders secure, continue improving our unemployment, continue bringing back jobs from other countries, notably China, and continue improving our economy.
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Anisahoni
Perhaps Trump and his heart throb, Ivanka will close down their factories in China too and have their clothing made by Americans. Maybe Ivanka will give up her Chinese patents on voting machines.Let's be fair.
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Anisahoni
Our borders are just fine. I live in AZ. Locking up kidnapped Indigenous babies from their families and keeping them in cages has nothing to do with safe borders. No One is illegal on Stolen Land.
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Lionheart
Notice how it was President Trump that made that illegal, not President Obama, which happened on his watch too.
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, this is in rebuttal to your claims that your "president" is "the greatest president in history" and Obama is "the worst president in history" (the president scholars disagree): Donald Trump ranked worst president in U.S. history by nearly 200 political scientists (www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-worst-president-presidential-greatness-survey-presidents-day-obama-george-washington-a8218721.html). Your View: Donald Trump is worst president in U.S. history (www.southcoasttoday.com/opinion/20191203/your-view-donald-trump-is-worst-president-in-us-history). Donald Trump: The Most Mendacious President In U.S. History (www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-trumps-washington/the-most-mendacious-president-in-us-history). Donald Trump is indisputably the worst president in American history (www.theweek.com/articles/779929/donald-trump-indisputably-worst-president-american-history). Expert: Donald Trump is the worst president in our history, in my lifetime (www.news.cgtn.com/news/2020-05-10/Donald-Trump-is-the-worst-president-in-our-history-in-my-lifetime-Qn3togzLj2/index.html). Steve Schmidt Predicts Trump Is Going To Go Down As The Worst President In History (www.politicususa.com/2020/04/10/steve-schmidt-predicts-trump-is-going-to-go-down-as-the-worst-president-in-history.html). Conservative Columnist Max Boot Looks At History, Concludes Trump Is Worst President Ever (www.huffpost.com/entry/max-boot-donald-trump-worst-president_n_5e8a99c4c5b6e7d76c663267). You see, even that conservative is saying that Trump is the worst president ever, but, of course, you and other Trumpophiles have deluded yourselves that you know better than all of these presidential scholars do what makes someone the worst president ever and so contradict all of them and hang that title WRONGLY!!! on Obama!! You should stick with much simpler matters that you might be capable, barely, of understanding and leave the evaluation of presidential performance in office to these actual experts in the matter!!!
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, this is to rebut your claims that Trump "improved our unemployment, brought back jobs from other countries---notably China, is improving our economy, and made our borders secure. Proof That Obama, Not Trump, Saved Our Economy (www.soapboxie.com/economy/Obama-Not-Trump-Saved-Our-Economy). Opinion: Why Donald Trump couldn't bring back 5 million factory jobs (www.marketwatch.com/story/why-donald-trump-cant-magically-bring-back-5-million-factory-jobs-2016-08-19). Trump's Push to Bring Back Jobs to U.S. Shows Limited Results (www.nytimes.com/2019/08/13/business/economy/donald-trump-jobs-created.html). U.S. tariffs on China aren't bringing back factories (www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/07/12/jobs-us-tariffs-china-arent-bringing-back-factories/1582529001/) Trump's Border Blunders (www.factcheck.org/2019/01/trumps/border/blunders/) Read 'em and weep!!! You have been proven wrong about Obama's being "the worst president in U.S. history" because the presidential scholars say that Trump is the worst president in U.S. history, wrong about Trump's bringing back jobs from China and other countries, wrong about Trump's securing our border with Mexico, wrong about Trump's improving the economy when that improvement is what he inherited from Obama and is trying to claim credit for, and wrong about Trump's reducing unemployment when it is Obama who reduced unemployment and Trump is trying to claim credit for it!! How many times do you have to be proven wrong before you finally admit that you are wrong and that Trumpelstiltskin is actually the worst "president" in U.S. history?!! I have entire books of posts against him here in the internet to further convince you if you need more convincing!!! So, what else have you got?!!!
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Lionheart
It’s very clear you don’t understand and I’m okay with that. Let November 3rd, the electorate, make their decision.
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, you would have to be able to actually understand first yourself (and not just "understand" from a Republican and Conservative--that is, dishonest!!---point of view) before you could honestly say that I or anyone else "don't understand" and that you will never be able to do!!! You only use that line as yet another evasive tactic to avoid responding to any of the posts that I have sent to you. Of course, it is actually you who doesn't understand here!! The electorate (and not just your phony "president's" mindless zombies!!) most certainly will decide on November 3rd and send your worthless "man" packing or have him thrown down the stairs and out on his ass out on the street, if he refuses to leave voluntarily, which I would much prefer and really love to see, as would many others around the country and the world!!
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Lionheart
Well, that’s all it’s worth anyway, but I doubt he did.
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Anisahoni
He gave it back to his heart throb Ivanka to put back in her $1,400 designer purse. it was not his Bible.
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Alexander Clarke
Could have been Mobey Dick like in the movie Fried Green Tomatoes.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Did the video show Bible written on that book? It looked very similar to my leather bound Oxford dictionary from the Folio Society.
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Arctic Fairy
I have several plain-cover bibles that are devoid of text. The only way you’d know it was right side up is if you looked at the spine, or if you saw the bookmark ribbons protruding from the bottom. Like you see in the photo of Trump. Holding his right side up bible. Trump isn’t perfect, and clearly neither is the poster of this observation, given his lack of attention to detail. It’s saddening to see all the hate and intolerance gushing from these posts. With the behavior and attitude you’re displaying, if you were to take Trump’s place as the leader of the Free World, our country wouldn’t survive to see the weekend. So be thankful Trump is in office instead of the countless armchair activists exuding parochialisms.
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Dan Anderson
I am still attempting to figure out why on earth he even did this. Is he attempting to claim to be a Christian? We know he isn't.
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Alexander Clarke
He did this because he is playing to the white evangelicals who support him completely. He is all about himself and this was nothing but a photo shoot. His followers want a king.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Trump foolishly thought he was playing up to the evangelicals and other Christians, but numerous Christian leaders have spoken in opposition to his stupid actions.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
It all boils down to just one thing. Trump is just plain stupid. I've heard he can't even tie his own shoes.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Trump could actually be a very evil Christian, not that all christians are evil, for many of them are very good people who have simply been mislead into following an evil doctrine,and depriving themselves of their natural,humanness. However, like Trump many of them are are just plain stupid, and evil. And I can give many examples, upon request, although Sir Lionheart has already done an outstanding job of describing evil absurdities found throughout the Bible, and I'd rather use my copy of that comic book for much better purposes, like toilet paper, and rolling papers.
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Anisahoni
No one can claim to be a "good Christian" or even Christian and lock babies and children in cages. No one who is a good Christian would dare to denigrate Purple Heart recipients, Gold Star families, and other veterans. No one who claims to be Christian would deprive people of food, shelter and water. No one who is a good Christian would support a liar, adulterer, pedophile, rapist, thief. People who are religiously committed don't need to attack people with tear gas and other projectiles while exercising their rights to peaceable assembly to have a photo op with a Bible he doesn't own in front of a church he doesn't attend.
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Lionheart
Actually, unless you have a very personal relationship with President Trump you don't have any certainty he is not a Christian. As to where he is on the Christian spectrum, i'e, devout fundamentalist, to just occasionally going to church like so many Christians, we have no idea. I "suspect" he's very middle-of-the-road, but again, we don't know do we?
This is exactly what the media does. They make claims, as though they have inside knowledge, and "the people" buy it, because it's what they want to believe because it fits their narrative of him.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Plain and simple, regardless of what Trump thinks of himself and his religious affiliation, he's been digging his grave deeper every time he's opened his mouth. And even if he straightened up his act at this point, he doesn't stand a chance against Biden, and his soon to be announced black, female running mate.
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Lionheart
It's a very interesting thought isn't it. Do you have any confidence that by November 3rd Joe Biden will remember what he's running for? If he wins, will he know what he's won? I think little girls will be his downfall, but I could be wrong. Does anyone know if he holds a bible the right way up? Does he even know, or remember, what a bible is?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I agree that Biden isn't perfect. If he was he would be a Republican. And if a better Republican was running against Sleepy Joe I'd vote for my own party. However, considering how that juvenile delinquent Trump has behaved for the last few years, I'm proud to vote for who I perceive as a much better choice, despite his fallacies. Besides that,it's about time we had a woman in the oval office, but it's less likely that one will get elected than promoted. " Mr. Rabbit, Mr.Rabbit, you're getting mighty old. Yes bless God I'm almost dead. Every little soul must shine shine. Every little soul must shine, shine."
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'd much rather vote for a president who never heard of a Bible, regardless of his or her political party, wouldn't you Lionheart? Maybe he can 1uote the Wiccan Rede, or Drawing Down The Moon. Wouldn't that be a switch? We won't know until after he's been elected, if he comes out of the broom closet. I haven't had a premonition about it yet, but have a hunch there's more to him than what meets the eye, and Biden will atleast pull some rabbits out of his hat.
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Lionheart
Yes I totally agree. I have my doubts he’s greatly immersed in Christianity, or even religion, but I think he knows how to use his religious electorate to help him get in for another 4 years.
I’m very impressed with KayLeigh McEnany. She could be one to look out for in future elections. I also like Tulsi Gabbard who sounds as though she has an intelligent head on her shoulders.
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Anisahoni
KayLeigh is a despicable liar. It is hilarious to watch her make stuff up. Tulsi Gabbard is a Russian operative. Wow.
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Lionheart
I’m curious, is everyone painted with the Russian Operative brush that’s not liked by Democrats? Is it possible they are not? Just asking.
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Anisahoni
Read Malcolm Nance's book. 'The Plot to Destroy Democracy". It's not a Democrat Republican or Independent issue. Read and learn. Malcom is a retired Navy Counter Intelligence officer and is still in the Intel community today. He called out Jill Stein for being a partner with Putin and then a photo surfaced of her ion Moscow with Putin. He know about Tulsi very well and you could too.
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Asa William Sprague, II
In this regard, the media is only sharing and reporting opinions. Christians often use the maxim found in Matthew 7:15-20 ("By their fruits you will know them") when judging whether or not a person is actually a practicing Christian. Sadly, the majority of fruit born by Trump's actions are either harmful or anemic.
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, you or anyone can know if someone is actually a Christian, as far as anyone can be, by their actions and words. "By their fruits, you shall know them". Just calling yourself or being called by others a "Christian" doesn't make you a Christian, but only coming up to the standard of actual Christian behavior and practice. Telling 18,000 lies since coming into office, as your "president" has, doesn't come up to that standard, anymore than all the other EVILS!!! that he has committed do!!! Those actions and words prove that he isn't any kind of actual Christian!!!
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Lionheart
Actually he’s currently President of the United States so he’s your president as well as mine, whether you like it or not. That’s assuming you are a U.S. citizen of course. I have my doubts President Trump is big on religion, but I’m sure he’s working the religious electorate as best he can. Let’s see how the election goes, that’s the beauty of democracy.
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, actually he's only the appointed "president", not the actually elected president, because millions of popular votes had to be overruled in order for the Electoral College to merely appoint him "president"!! Why should people even bother with going out to vote for our President at all when their votes don't matter, anyway, and can be overruled by this insane Electoral College, which is outmoded in our day and age, no matter what rationalizations you and your ilk may come up with for its continued existence and invalidation of elections?!! That is what leads to voter apathy and why so many people don't bother to vote anymore, saying "What's the point?"!! At the height of apartheid in South Africa, we lectured and demonstrated on that country's need to give one man, one vote to its people, but we don't even do that for our own people and the most supposedly "advanced country in the world" has the most ass backwards voting system in presidential elections and other elections, too!! This should not be the case and needs to be reformed!!!
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Anthony Beaver
If you listen to the news a journalist asked Trump if that was his Bible and he replied "It's a Bible" so I honestly don't believe he is a God fearing person! This is just my opinion but I feel it is a accurate! Trump only cares about one thing and that is himself!
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Mark Stricklett
Interesing, this is the same pose as Hitler used in front of a Church in Germany as he was killing millions of Jews. Trumps photo opp, down to the pose and the presentation of the Bible. What's this mean to you?
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Lionheart
Isn't it interesting how people will go to great lengths to marry an image to a negative image to help their political narrative of what they want to believe. Can you imagine if someone found an image of him doing something that resembled a righteously famous person, as opposed to someone thats infamous. Do you think CNN would publish that image? Of course they wouldn't because it doesn't suit their political agenda.
Does President Trump do things that is out of the ordinary? Yes he does! Did President Obama? Did Sir Winston Churchill? Did all Presidents and leaders of nations? Yes they did. Let's judge him on what he does for the economy, unemployment, bringing jobs back to the U.S. and securing our border, all of which he was doing extremely well until COVID-19.
Whether we like it or not he is our nations President. Let the people yet again decide on November 3rd, as to whether they are happy to see another 4 years of his Presidency. Fortunately for him Joe Biden is his opposition, so I suspect we can expect another 4 more years of President Trump, but I could be wrong. November will give us the answer.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Satan is righteously famous, depending on who you ask, and I can see Trump engaging in devilish acts. Just open your eyes,and look!
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Lionheart
There’s no worse devilish act than selling your country out like Obama did giving away billions of dollars to Iran with no congressional approval. He was the worse President in American history, but of course you won’t agree, and that’s ok. Let’s see who our next President is on November 3rd. I’ll be amazed if it’s that young-girl-loving sleepy Joe.
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John D. Partin
Trumpelstiltskin sold out our country to the Russians and let them meddle in the 2016 election and will try to do so in this 2020 election coming up, too, if he thinks that he can get away with it, and took Vladimir Putin's word that he didn't meddle in that election over that of his own intelligence agencies when he met with Putin in Helsinki (www.cbsnews.com/news/bernie-sanders-says-trump-sold-the-american-people-out-in-putin-summit/). So that you won't think that this is just Bernie Sanders' opinion: Trump's Helsinki Bow To Putin Leaves World Wondering: Why? (www.npr.org/2018/07/17/6296001233/trumps-helsinki-bow-to-putin-leaves-world-wondering-whats-up). Trump Is Selling Out America, and His Supporters Love It (www.prospect.org/power/trump-selling-america-supporters-love/) So, of course, to divert attention away from his own selling out of the country, Trumpelstiltskin has to focus his base's attention on Obama and accuse him of "actually selling out the country" and divert attention away from himself as the actually worse "president" in American history by calling Obama "the worst President in American history", and his totally unthinking base just accepts every word coming out of his mouth and swallows it hook, line, and sinker, as he knows that they will and counts on their doing!!! If we shouldn't believe this LIAR!!! currently in the White House about himself, since he has told 18,000 + lies already as "president"---and still counting!!, why on Earth would we believe him about Obama or anyone or anything else?!!! That just wouldn't make any sense for anyone to do!! If he can't even tell the truth about himself, how could he possibly be truthful about anyone else?!! First of all, as reported by www.factcheck.org, former President Barack Obama didn't give "150 billion in cash" to Iran. The nuclear agreement included China, France, Germany, Russia, the United Kingdom, the United States, and the European Union, so Obama didn't carry out any part of it on his own. (www.factcheck.org/2019/03/obama-didnt-give-iran-150-billion-in-cash/). Lionheart and other Trumpophiles just toss these accusations out against Obama, knowing full well that they won't ever be questioned, but just swallowed hook, line, and sinker by their ilk, who just want to believe them and aren't interested in making even the slightest effort at finding out the actual truth or hearing the other side of the story!!! That would undermine their belief and faith in their own narrow-minded views, and they won't risk that!! That's why they make their sick suggestions of "pedophilia" against Joe Biden, too, such as "young girl-loving sleepy Joe", to distract attention away from their "president"'s sexual longing for and interaction with his own daughter, and 22 other women, and his senility in telling 18,000 + lies since entering the White House, as well as all his other mentally feeble thoughts, actions, and words!!! People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!
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Krystina S.
Ya know, whataboutism and false equivalency are the signs of a weak mind. NO, President Obama did not do heinous things that upended all our moral, ethical and legal fabric that proscribes the behavior of the leader of our great nation, and indeed, of the world. As far as "Let's judge him on what he does..." AGAIN, I beg to differ about your description of "extremely well." The majority of Americans, and virtually all of the rest of the world, differ with that perception!! Please stop trolling with inane GOP and Trumpish drivel, and make some sense.
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Lionheart
Let’s see how many “weak minds” as you suggest, vote him back in again in November. The good thing for our President is that he has, as opposition, someone who might not even know what he’s running for by November, Joe Biden. A sad figure indeed!
Most of us know that the worst President in history, Obama, was the man who gave billions to Iran without congressional approval. Have you ever wondered why there are no Democrats on Mt Rushmore? Neither have I.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'm sure Trump loves all this support you're giving him, Lionheart. He loves having people kiss his ass. That's the only way it ever gets wiped.
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Lionheart
If this beautiful country of ours gets a much improved border, better employment, and better economy, which it has done prior to COVID-19, I’ll continue to support him. If States such as California, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Delaware and Illinois, all of which are seriously struggling under Democrat rule, could do as well as Republican run states, this country would be much better off.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Wow just wow, you really do keep your head in the sand dont you. Its a matter of simple economics for example that states like California would do far better as a country of its own rather than drained by the federal tithe it gives every year to help support the poorest states with the worst rates for under age pregnancy, school drop outs, teen suicides, and domestic violence.
Its one of those ironic aspects of our country that the so called red states due to their political leaning, also tend to be in the red financially year after year dating back to before the great depression.
Automation is inevitable, jobs based on physical labor will go the way of the dinosaur. For such is the nature of mankind. Since the first tribe saw the advantage in digging a central well instead of each family fetching water from a nearby river, humans have used their brains to reduce any labor seen as needless.
Nor are we in any danger of invasion and in no need of stalinesque walls to keep secure not to mention contain us in( news flash I see building a wall as a tool to contain not defend, especially when globally the world is as close to a state of peace( in the sense no country is really trying to actively make war in the old tradition of conquest) and that has nothing to do with the U.S. so much as the world has grown small enough due to tech we are all now more neighbors then ever before. Less others, less strangers.
But I get it, I mean after all you do use the name of one of the most evil murderous scumbag kings in all of brit history for a handle. I mean calling yourself lionheart really is more like calling yourself titular evil king in historic films that are not trying to treat the crusades as a just or noble thing.
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Lionheart
Let’s just see if the electorate agrees with your rhetoric in November?
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John D. Partin
Hitler was enthusiastically supported by his mindless base, too, just because of a few good things that they perceived that he and the Nazi Party had given them, overruling, in their view, to the extent that they knew about them, the far greater evils of concentration camps and genocide!! So, it isn't surprising at all that you Trumpophiles, who are as gullible and willingly blind and self-deceived as those Germans were, also mindlessly and enthusiastically support Trumpelstiltskin because of his perceived "benefits" to you, while ignoring his far greater evils done to this country!! You are all probably the reincarnations of those German supporters of Hitler, just as this "president" is the reincarnation of Hitler!! The German people who were hypnotized and brainwashed by Hitler also thought that all other countries would be "better off" if they were just run on the Nazi model, which is why they were invaded in order to make that happen, the same as you and your ilk "think" that Democratic run states would be "better off" run on the Republican or even "better" Trumpelstiltskinian model!!
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Lionheart
November will decide if the electorate agree with you Mr Parkin in November.
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, we all already know that your "president" (because he wasn't elected by a majority of the popular vote, but only by the cheating and election defrauding Electoral College, and so doesn't represent the will of the American people!!) is a moral bankrupt and totally without any decency or conscience whatsoever and now we know that about you, too!!! Only a morally defective person, such as yourself, could continue to support this fraudulent and miserable excuse for a "president" and make excuses for and condone his many crimes against this country and pretend that he hasn't even done them and only fixate upon whatever perceived "benefits" you and other Trumpophiles believe that he has done for the country, the same as the Germans did for Adolf Hitler!!! His corruption won't be affecting the country any more after November when he loses to Joe Biden, but your corruption will affect you and those around you for the rest of your life!!!
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Lionheart
I assume you understand the reasons for the Electoral College? If not I can explain it to you if you so wish. Popular voting is not part of the system here in the U.S.
Here we are almost 4 years into his presidency and Democrats are still struggling to get over it. In some ways it might be best if Biden does win because I doubt Democrats will be able to deal with losing.... again, even though Republicans had to endure 8 years of Obama. If Trump does win I guess we'll have to accept another impeachment saga again to help Democrats feel justified in their weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth.
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, popular voting is part of the system here in the U.S. or it wouldn't exist in our elections at all in the first place!! Your being a foreigner and not an actual American, I wouldn't expect you to understand anything about that, but that is how it actually is!! The trouble is that the Electoral College overrules millions of popular votes, which ought not to be so!! Democracy should be one man, one vote, not the Electoral College's overruling millions of popular votes. Because of that ABOMINATION!!! and TRAVESTY!!!, this IDIOT!!! TRUMPELSTILTSKIN stole the election away from its rightful winner Hillary Rodham Clinton!!! At the height of apartheid in South Africa, we lectured that country about their needing to have one man, one vote, but here we are the most supposedly "advanced" country in the world, but with the most backward presidential voting system and not even practicing one man, one vote ourselves in that election!!! Don't try to pretend that you are "more knowledgeable" about this matter than I or other people here and can lecture us about it or play those games with yourself because you have already proved that you are as big of a SUCKER!!! for Trumpianity as other people are for their religious myths and that doesn't put you in any position to look down on or lecture me or anyone else about anything!!! Trump's own Secretary of Defense and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff are speaking out against him and his ridiculous photo op at that church!!! The whole country is having peaceful demonstrations against police brutality and the murders of black men by the police, which your "president" doesn't get at all, and they are more popular than he is and certainly won't be voting for him!!! 74 % of the country approves of these protests or have you been living somewhere else all this time?!! Democrats don't have to worry about losing to that IDIOT!!! in the White House or needing a second impeachment trial against him or "weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth" (which is your term for their telling the truth about him!!) because he won't be there after January 20, 2021. As Joe Biden, our next President, said this morning, to paraphrase, the military will escort him out of the White House if he refuses to leave voluntarily after he loses the election on January 20, as he may well try to do, and throw his old cantankerous ass down the stairs and out on the street and say "GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!!". The country will, collectively, then breathe a huge sigh of relief at finally be rid of him (and good riddens to bad rubbish!!) and can begin to get this country going back in the truly right direction and out of all the garbage that he has led it into for the past 3 and a half years!!! Oh, Happy Days, will be our song on that day!!!
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Lionheart
Thank you for lecturing me about the electoral system here in the U.S. Mr. Parkin. Please correct me if I’m wrong, which I’m sure you will, we still have the Electoral College system here don’t we, so everything you have just been talking about makes no difference whatsoever, does it? Am I correct? And, as I am sure you are an American citizen, just like myself, the current President of the United States is Donald Trump, in which case he’s not only my President but he is also yours whether you like it or not.
Welcome to loving this country and being a true patriot, just like myself.
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, the Electoral College's still being here, the same as institutional racism and police brutality are still here after hundreds of years, is no sign that it should be here, anymore than racism and brutality should still be here. That is what these protests are about: to get rid of racism and brutality, the same as the Electoral College should be gotten rid of and one man, one vote put into practice in this country. Also, your "president" is only the appointed "president", not the actually elected president because 3 million popular votes were dismissed in order to appoint him "president", as I told you before and whether you like it or not!! You aren't a patriot or you would believe in and support what is right for our elective process and racial justice and be against police brutality and corruption in the Justice Department, as I am and do. I'm the patriot here, not you and your ilk!!!
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CB Cuff
Trump's body language gave the impression he was being dictated what to do, step by step. After watching the charade a couple of times I could almost here the instruction coming through his earpiece....scripted, like all his daily 'briefings'. When he arrived at the church and was handling the prop bible one might have heard him saying "wow these things can be heavy." He gave all appearances that again he was just following the script, not quite sure of how to be attached emotionally. I'm surprised he didn't have a female African American Rev./Pastor, etc. standing beside him, just to confirm he was being genuine. ......wondering if he fired his Evangelical 'consultant' Johnnie Moore after it all back-fired? I think this show of total disregard for the losses due to both the virus and a human life at the hands of police has topped the list of how heartless a human can get. It really is surprising Trump is still breathing,....not sure there is a heartbeat though.
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Brother David
As I was reading at the bottom of this page "Speak your truth clearly; (I left off the quietly because you should be heard) and listen to others, even the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story... reminds me of what comes out of the mouth of DT. a story, not truuth, not heeling, not love. Free speach must be the truth and nothing but the truth or it isn't free speach. If what comes out of a persons mouth is a lie and it causes harm, is it free speach? There is a lot of tension in this country, we need a president that can heal and bring people together. Brother David
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Douglas J Russell Jr
I will say only this. Those who flaunt a Bible after violent acts probably didn’t read it in the first place.
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Summer Bree Nichols
I’ve said this before let’s teach instead of posting this stuff as if we don’t get enough of this stuff on the internet
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Didn't Hitler die shortly before Trump was conceived of...he could have had past life memories about posing in front of a church, which prompted it to do it again.
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Krystina S.
Trump is a cynical, hubristic hypocrite, a racist and a narcissistic wanna-be dictator. He is not a person of Faith, and does not understand the most fundamental (pun intended) concepts of Christianity. The very Faith Leaders who condemn him are those who comprehend the call of the Faithful to Righteous Action. The Civil Rights Movement in our country was supported by people of all Faiths and their Leaders of the time. Jewish, Orthodox Christian, Catholic, Protestant, etc. The shallow and grotesque display of The Holy Bible in the hands of that charletan, in front of a Church which did not want him there, and whose members and clergy were tear-gassed to give him that "photo-op," sickens me. Are the so-called White Evangelical Christians who seem to be his sycophantic followers so insensitive, so self-involved in their bigotry and need for racial supremacy that they let this go? That they even, perhaps, condone such nasty behavior? For Trump to say that those religious leaders who did not support this travesty are "members of the opposition?" That they are People Religious of the WRONG Political party, and therefore their deeply felt religious indignation is somehow suspect? SHAME on ALL who support this hijacking of Faith. Look deep within and see your true motives.
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Clifford
Perhaps if he embodied the truths within it. Rather than holding it up like a war shield?
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rparish
I am not in a position to declare who is Christian or not, or Jewish or not, or Muslim or not. But I can look at most people for a period of time, either in person or through virtual means, and tell what interests them most. Someone who looks you in the eye and listens actively probably wants to know what you think - even if they may not agree with you. Someone who folds their arms, looks away, rocks back and forth on their heels is just waiting for you to shut up so they can "set you straight" on something. Someone who interrupts you while you are speaking does not want to hear you. Someone who makes pronouncements and then walks away thinks they know all and no one else needs to bother speaking. Pay attention to the body language of our president. It speaks as loudly as his tweets.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
If the protesters didn't start throwing things until they were being pushed back and assaulted I'd say they were only defending themselves, and their constitutional right to be there, against the law breaking authorities, who aren't above the U.S. Constitution.
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Mark Hannon
I always thought going to church meant attending a service either in a building or in an outdoor setting. We have prayer meetings regularly, services of songs on occasion, scheduled Sunday morning services or a service for people that couldn't attend on Sunday morning, services in a park, tent services, holiday celebration services. Oh my heavens we were always going to church. Life has changed some and we aren't keeping the schedule we once had. However, standing in front of a church building with a Bible in your hand held up in the air never qualified as going to church. I have a Bible, studies and concordance. If I held them up would that make me president of the U.S.A.
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Rev. Dennis
Going to church does mean worshipping in a building. Worshipping God is to be done EVERYWHERE at all times. Helping in food kitchens, holding the door for people, marching in protest of God's children being treated differently based on a bias which the devil and his minions put in your hearts; that is what worshipping God is about.
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Krystina S.
Trump is a cynical, hubristic hypocrite, a racist and a narcissistic wanna-be dictator. He is not a person of Faith, and does not understand the most fundamental (pun intended) concepts of Christianity. The very Faith Leaders who condemn him are those who comprehend the call of the Faithful to Righteous Action. The Civil Rights Movement in our country was supported by people of all Faiths and their Leaders of the time. Jewish, Orthodox Christian, Catholic, Protestant, etc. The shallow and grotesque display of The Holy Bible in the hands of that charletan, in front of a Church which did not want him there, and whose members and clergy were tear-gassed to give him that "photo-op," sickens me. Are the so-called White Evangelical Christians who seem to be his sycophantic followers so insensitive, so self-involved in their bigotry and need for racial supremacy that they let this go? That they even, perhaps, condone such nasty behavior? For Trump to say that those religious leaders who did not support this travesty are "members of the opposition?" That they are People Religious of the WRONG Political party, and therefore their deeply felt religious indignation is somehow suspect? SHAME on ALL who support this hijacking of Faith. Look deep within and see your true motives.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
And how would it help Trump to be a Christian anyway, considering how evil Christianity is? Resembling a Christian won't make him seem like a better person.
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Brother David
Christianity is not evil, people can be in the name of what they profess to be. Their actions, their works, will give them away. We will all be held accountable for our transgressions that are not forgiven - that we have not confessed and asked forgiveness for. My Brothers and Sisters do not harden your hearts, let us pray for one another that God forgive and bring peace to this world. We are a nation that believes in freadom of religion not from religion. Love one another, be kind and pray for all things. Peace.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'll only love the pretty ones, Dave. You can have the rest.
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Douglas Andrew Rogers
Let’s focus on the pain of the world. The power of prayer resides in ALL of us.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Laughter also comes from within, and will keep all basically normal people from being depressed.
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Lionheart
Would you be referring to that same power of prayer used by those waiting to be gassed during WW II? Or those on board the planes heading towards the World Trade Center, or those in the World Trade Center after the first plane hit?
Reality is, talking to a wall, floor, ceiling, or sky, to an imaginary friend just doesn’t work does it?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
That's only because this blog didn't exist then, little Danny, child.
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Richard Lee Cornell
Love those peacefully protesters who the night before looted and burn the church. Most of the police were from many agencies who worn no ID and took no orders from the protesters. When it comes to church leaders would they have had a different views if their churches were looted and burn. Just remember what ever Trump does is wrong. Wonder how these church leaders will feel when Bernie Sanders is POTUS and he cracks down on everyone.
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Monique Marie Clement Bray
Why do we expect a shred of decency from a man like Trump who, for the last 3 years plus, has been running this country as if he was the host of a popular television show? He has no idea how ridiculous he looked holding a bible upside down first - a book he probably has never read. He is a pitiful character in a second rate play. Someone referred to him as looking liike a fat Elvis Prestley in the last few years he performed in Vegas. Quite so. Let us pray that God will deliver this country from the evil that isTrump,
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Edwin Merle Waltz
Why Camdem Pres for going to church? As far as Floyd goes cops were wrong. But why was he stopped for in the first place. And nothing said about protesters killing a black police chief. This is all brought on by bias liberal media and democrats
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Rev. Dennis
I assume you meant condemn? While the president is free to do what is correct, this was not it. Clearing of citizens and a pastor (the one from the church) says plenty to those of us who not only preach but preach in a free society. When you remove clergy from the church which is their own parish that is what happens in regimes we have fought against. America needs to decide if they want to continue to be a democratically free country for all or just for one group. What I have seen over the last decade is very troubling as we seem to have forgotten what this country is and what Gods instructions for all mankind are.
As far as the loss of another life in a violent act (the police chief), the media is covering it. Any loss of life in this way is wrong. That is what the protests are about. God created man and unfortunately man does not pay attention to the commandments which God gave us through Moses. I did notice that you said protesters killed this person and have to ask, were you there? There are currently no leads which have been released in regards to this. I do know for a FACT (not from the news) that far right and far right groups are infiltrating these protests in order to entice the crowds to violence and looting.
I also noted your affiliation for saying "liberal media" and "democrats". Why the hostility towards others? Other than ALL American media sensationalizing everything for ratings, don't they all report the news? What is wrong with liberals? I would also like to ask why you don't like democrats? They do make up one third of the population of the United States. What did liberals, media and democrats do to you personally to fill you with anger towards them?
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Anisahoni
One of my favorite quotes is from President John F. Kennedy" “If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal", then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal.”
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Asa William Sprague, II
George Floyd was detained under suspicion of passing a fraudulent $20 bill. The protests are being waged by concerned citizens; and they number in the millions. Looters are not protesters.
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Anisahoni
I see these kind of responses and defenses quite often. "Whataboutism" is quite handy. Perhaps if you read and study, "White Fragility, Why it is So Hard for White people to Talk About Racism" by Dr. Robin Di Angelo, you might get it. You can download it for free, or visit her home page. Those of us who profess religiosity or spirituality have to understand the roots and causes of police brutality and why the Black Lives Matter Movement is here. People like the racist and disgusting Coward in Chief/Bone Spurs need to do some soul searching and truly walk their talk and honor the teachings of their Jesus, who was a Jewish Black man.
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Dr Asha Sharma
We as ministers need to put our focus on restoring faith to the people and helping them to recognize truth from untruth. This president I not sure how many times he has been to church in the pass years in office kaee work together and bring back faith and the golden rules
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Lionheart
How does one recognize truth from untruth when all one has is a reliance only on a belief without any testable facts? That's not how science, logic, and reason works to establish truth when confronted with a theory. If you are a medical doctor I certainly hope you don't rely on faith to heal your patients. I hope you send patients for clinical medical studies that are backed up by science, because if you don't your patients are in deep doodoo. 💩
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Have you ever considered that God only shows those facts to believers, but is hiding them from people like you.
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Lionheart
Yes I have, and if that was the truth don’t you think that is a stupidly messed up god with such a stupid idea, with still no proof he’s real. Wouldn’t a god worth his/her salt wanting to prove he’s real want to just sort of....show up? Is that suggestion of yours something that you’d do to your children if someone told them you were real but you never showed up for them? If you truly loved your children wouldn’t you want to like...show up for them, or would you rather let someone tell them they need faith that you exist? Let’s face it, if your god was real he or she is one major messed up deity.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Then again, like the song goes "She moves in mysterious ways." Our gods and goddesses don't think like we do, but are far superior to us, and I believe they reveal themselves to us in many ways, but not in physical form. For one thing they aren't physical beings, so what form would they take. Maybe they want us to think and realize the other ways they make themselves manifest. They didn't make most of us too stupid to do that.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I can't think of a good argument against that, sir.
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CB
Actually he is Christian. You have not done your research. This was not a mere photo-op. When the enormity of the entire situation is shown to you please pray a lot on this. The slant of the article suggests the author is not aware of all the facts; few are. Before you pass judgement, remember that each one of all of us is also to be judged.
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Rev. Dennis
He is not Christian. Neither are many of the people who claim to be in this country. Do your research and pray on this.
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flugo
'rev'; YOU do NOT KNOW who is and who is not Christian. Only a fool would claim that knowledge. Such groundless and audacious blather is shameful. Such knowledge is known only to God'. .
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John D. Partin
Flugo Marx, Jesus said "By their fruits, you will know them". So, knowing who is or isn't Christian is possible for people, not only for God, by people's actions, words, and ideas. You contradict yourself by saying that we can't know who is Christian or not because you are always saying that you think that some people "aren't Christians", according to you, based on what they do!!
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Lionheart
Please can you list your research that shows categorically he is not a Christian, or is it just our opinion?
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Anisahoni
Can you please list your research that shows categorically he IS a Christian?
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Lionheart
My comment above should have read “your opinion” not “our opinion”.
I have no research whatsoever that he is, or is not, a Christian, but Rev Dennis says that he knows Trump is NOT a Christian. Rev Dennis could be right, but where is his data to support that statement.
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Anisahoni
Start with kidnapping babies from their mothers and putting them and older children in cages. Denying them healthcare. Denying them soap and water and other basic hygiene supplies. That's a good start. Taking away food stamps from needy families is another. Touting a dangerous drug for profit to harm people is another. Denigrating people of color and veterans. And then not even attending church. He hasn't been to the President's Church where he did a photo op since March 2019 according to the pastor of that church. Lying constantly without remorse. Sexually assaulting women is not Christian. None of these few examples demonstrate a Christian. His daughter had to reach inside her $1,400. designer handbag to lend him her Bible. He didn't read from it or even open it. No prayer in front of the church. Treating a Holy Book as if it is a prop. That is not very Christian to me and shows the antithesis of Christianity or following the teachings of the Jesus he claims to follow. There's your data.
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Lionheart
If I’m not mistaken, child molesting Priests in the Catholic Church call themselves Christians, and the Pope who holds a gold cross, worth more than any expensive purse calls himself a Christian when there are starving children in this world that could better use the money. Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, Jimmy Swaggart, and Kenneth Copeland just to name a few also class themselves as Christians. I’m left wondering what exactly are the qualities of a good Christian. I even find many bloggers on here who profess to be Christians that are extremely rude and disrespectful in their comments to their fellow man. By-the-way, the last President also caged ilegal Immigrants and separated families. It was President Trump that issued an order to end that policy, not Obama.
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Anisahoni
Seriously? "Squirrel, look over there" does not change the Nazi on our White House. The last president who caged little Brown Mayan Indian children asylum seekers is the Draft Dodger, Bone Spurs, Coward and Liar in Chief. Here's a few good sources: "The Cult of Trump" Steven Hassan, and "The Plot to Destroy Democracy" Malcolm Nance.
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Jerry Lee Smith
Peaceful protesters? At what point does that crowd get described as something else since they were throwing various items at and hitting secret service members along with the national park rangers that asked them to move back? Misleading labels make to many people jump to wrong conclusions. It was the peaceful protesters that shot and killed retired Captain David Dorn too, they just had a brain fart for a second.
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Daniel Gray
WHAT photo Op? He walked across the street for Gods sake. Were were you whiners when Clinton went out to the Federal Building after the creep bombed it? I didnt hear you whining or complaining about some stupid photo op then
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John D. Partin
Clinton didn't have protesters tear-gassed and driven off the streets and denied their 1st Amendment right to peaceably protest (since you're always ranting and raving in here about the 1st Amendment---or do you restrict that, illogically, as usual with you, only to people in church?!!) just so that he could stand in front of a church, whose minister didn't want him there and condemned his going there and called it a mockery of all that Jesus taught, holding up a Bible that he cares nothing about and never reads or takes to heart if he does and holding it upside-down, as Trumpelstiltskin did!!! Yes, it was just a photo op and cheap publicity stunt!! As has been pointed out here, Hitler made that same move and empty gesture in front of a church and this "president" was probably just repeating an act from that previous incarnation and past life memory!!
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Daniel Gray
John you are so full of it your hair and eyes are brown. There was NO tear gas used as you are trying to lie and claim and even the Press say you are a liar. And again sorry but there is a federal law that says you cannot attack a member of congress or the President, and these so called "peaceful protestors" had rocks and boards and so on. It was the Secret Services duty to make a hole as they say in the military.
You really should know what the heck you are talking about before you allow your lips to start flapping
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John D. Partin
Proof that Trump used tear gas on protesters: Trump calls tear gas reports 'fake news', but protesters' eyes burned just the same (www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-calls-tear-gas-reports-fake-news-protesters/story?id=71052769), Protesters Dispersed With Tear Gas So Trump Could Pose at Church (www.nytimes.com/2020/06/01/us/politics/trump-st-johns-church-bible.html), Police used tear gas to clear protesters from Lafayette park so Trump could take a photo at St. John's Church (www.businessinsider.com/police-dc-use-tear-gas-clear-protesters-trump-photo-op-2020-6), Police tear gas protesters gathered near White House after George Floyd's death (www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump-police-use-pepper-spray-protesters-gathered-near-white-house-after-n1219751), Trump Said No Tear Gas Used to Clear Protesters for Photo Op. These Canisters Suggest Otherwise. (www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-said-no-tear-gas-used-to-clear-protesters-for-photo-op-these-canisters-suggest-otherwise/ar-BB152BCq), Fox 'News' and 'Opinion' Wings Agree: Trump Tear Gassing for a Photo Op Rules! (www.thedailybeast.com/fox-news-and-opinion-unite-behind-trump-tear-gassing-peaceful-protesters-for-a-photo-op), Police use tear gas to clear peaceful protesters before President Trump visits historic church for photos (www.wdsu.com/article/police-use-tear-gas-to-clear-protesters-before-president-trump-visits-historic-church-for-photos/32736252#). How much more proof do you need, little Baby Danny, because there is page after page of these posts in the internet on the subject?!! So, quite obviously, the press doesn't call me a liar, but only calls you and your ilk LIARS!!! You are the one who should really know or find out what in the Hell that you are talking about before you start your lips flapping, but if you can't, just keep them flapping around your pacifier or milk bottle or whatever else that you can usefully find for them to do and leave the truth telling to we adults here, since that is way over your head and extremely limited "comprehension" level!!! You, quite obviously, woke up grumpy from another nap, but this time because of a load in your diapers, which you started smearing all over your eyes and face, even more than usual, so that you "thought" that everybody else or I was "full of it", transferring your own actual condition on to other people!!! As for the protesters' having rocks and boards, they weren't going to attack any members of Congress or the President with them, but only, at most, defend themselves against the police, since no Congress people or the President were even there, and so that was only a pretext by the police for tear-gassing them!!!
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John D. Partin
Little Baby Danny, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff apologized for accompanying the "president" on his trip to the church for his photo op because the military isn't supposed to be involved in civilian politics, for which people were tear gassed to "make a hole" through peaceful protesters for that to happen!! You don't "make a hole" through people who are exercising their Constitutional right to protest!! That sort of thing is only done under dictators against their people, not here in America!!! Why are you only in favor of and ranting and raving about the 1st Amendment when it comes to people's going to church and right-wing causes, but not when it comes to these people's 1st Amendment right to protest against police brutality and murders of black people by police, except for your double standard and HYPOCRISY?!!! The protests going on all over the country now after the murder of George Floyd make the protesters outside the State House in Lansing to open up the state or outside other state houses for that purpose pale to insignificance!!!
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Daniel Gray
Nice try liar here it is directly FROM the TV station in DC that says Johnny that you are full of it and a liar to boot
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/verify-were-protesters-tear-gassed-to-clear-the-way-for-trumps-walk-to-church/507-911916a1-1b43-4579-a93e-1124a7f4359b
Pepperballs are NOT tear gas and nobody in their right mind would classify them as such. The Police do not classify them as such, nor does the military nor does any military in any nation on earth
The Bishop of the church Rev. Mariann Budde, clearly no fan of Trumps; has also called you a liar.
USA Today is saying the same thing https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/06/03/floyd-protests-tear-gas-used-clear-park-trumps-walk/3128855001/
The Secret Service say the same thing.
And one more thing Johnny to show how ignorant you are, do you actually think for one second that if there was tear gas used that the Military or the police or the Secret service would allow officials from the WH to just walk into it? When tear gas is used it clings to the area (as its mixed with iol so it does not wear off naturally and must be hosed down with water, and not one wet spot was shown to be on anything) so just by walking in the same area you are stirring it up all over again as anyone who has served in the military (as you clearly have not) knows this for a fact as they had to go through tear gas training in boot camp. Hence the reason for the gas masks. Oh wait, proving that you lied even more there is not even one of the officials wearing a gas mask, not even the 4 star general that was with them.
So Johnny, if you dont know what the heck you are talking about then please stop flapping your lips as it makes you look more ignorant then you already do
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John D. Partin
Trump calls the National Guard spraying peaceful protesters with tear gas (and he actually admits here that, yes, tear gas was used), was a "beautiful scene". "Like a knife cutting butter". What a psycho. (Twitter comment of Just Vent replying to realDonaldTrump). Trump calls it a 'beautiful scene' when National Guard cut protesters 'like a knife cutting butter' (www.rawstory.com/2020/06/trump-calls-it-a-beautiful-scene-when-national-guard-cut-protesters-like-a-knife-cutting-butter/). Here is more evidence for you, little Baby Danny, that even Trumpelstiltskin knows and admits that those protesters were tear gassed---and loves it!!!
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John D. Partin
Little Baby Danny, here is more proof that pepper balls are a form of tear gas: The Semantics of 'Tear Gas' Versus 'Pepper Spray' (www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-semantics-of-tear-gas-versus-pepper-spray/ar-BB153APd). Secret Service walks back denial of using tear gas on White House protesters (www.foxnews.com/politics/secret-service-walks-back-denial-of-using-tear-gas-on-white-house-protesters). As I wrote before, if even Fox News, who are always Trump's ass kissers, brown nosers, suck-ups, and defenders and propaganda department and so would be the first to deny that tear gas was used on White House protesters and lie for him, are now admitting that tear gas was used in their reporting, you can count on that being true!!! When the truth is so obvious that even Fox News can't deny it, that clinches the argument and truth of it!!! Why would I take your and other lunatic fringe and notoriously deceitful and self-justifying Trumpophiles' word for it that "pepper balls aren't a form of tear gas" over the word of all these scientists and professional news reporters that I have already cited to you in previous posts, who have to verify their facts and findings before giving their reports and reaching their conclusions, and who say that pepper balls are a form of tear gas, whereas you just try to fit the facts to your ideology and prejudices or make them up to fit your ideology and prejudices?!! That might sound like a reasonable procedure to all of you in Trumpovania for "arriving at the truth", but it doesn't work at all out here in the real world where evidence and logic and reasoning are required for arriving at the truth!! I have already cited many news reports that contradict your statements about "pepper balls not being tear gas" and could cite many hundreds of more such reports, but, after all, it would just be more exercise in futility and casting pearls before swine, which Jesus said not to do, because you closed-minded people can't ever understand anything that is ever said or written to you, if it doesn't agree with what you already "think", and so that would be a big waste of time!!! As I wrote to you before, if you don't know and won't learn what in the Hell that you are talking about, stop flapping your lips or just keep them flapping around your pacifier or nipple of your milk bottle or whatever else that you can more usefully employ them for and leave the truth telling to we adults here and go back to sleep!!!
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Daniel Gray
Already destroyed you on this and yet you cant seem to get it through your concrete head that even Janes, the worlds list book/catalog of WMDS and weapons does not classify pepper balls as tear gas. And they would know more about it then you ever could if you lived 6000 years
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John D. Partin
Little Baby Danny, it is, once again, all these professional journalists and scientists that I have cited, not just me, that say that pepper balls are a form of tear gas----and I could cite hundreds of more such reports!!! So, they must know more about it, collectively and individually, than Janes world list book/catalog of WMDS and weapons does, since they don't come out with any statement without first verifying their facts, and so your argument is with all of them, not just with me!! They know more about it than you ever could if you lived 6,000 or 6,000,000 years!!! GET THAT THROUGH YOUR CONCRETE HEAD!!! All of those experts outnumber Jane's book/catalog!!!
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John D. Partin
Little Baby Danny, your saying "Already destroyed you on this" is just more of your childish babbling and banging your head against the floor, but what else can all of us adults here expect from a bratty kid, such as yourself, who is being contradicted constantly and proven WRONG!!! and not getting your way or the adults here to go along with your foolishness?!! That is all that you know how to do!! Just go back to sleep and suck on your pacifier or nipple of your milk bottle or whatever and calm yourself and you'll be fine!! All the experts that I've cited to you or could cite, proving pepper balls to be a form of tear gas, outnumber "Dr. Ranit" a hundred to one!! Case closed!!!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I never thought I'd side with Daniel Gray Child, but for once he's right (atleast about tear gas). I went through tear gas training in June of 1980, at Camp Bullis, in San Antonio, Texas, and am glad I put my gas mask on right the first time, before walking through an area heavily sprayed with tear gas. A few years later, while working as a security guard, I made the mistake of putting a can of tear gas in my back pocket. A little while later I sat down. Guess what happened? Needless to say, I had to quickly change my pants, for the affects of that stuff take a long time to go away.
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John D. Partin
Then, I'll say to you, Carl Bernard Elfstrom, what I just said to Little Baby Danny in the post above, that I would far rather take the word of scientists and professional news reporters, who have to verify their facts before issuing statements, over merely anecdotal accounts from him, you or anybody else, and they say that pepper balls are a form of tear gas. All forms of tear gas aren't equal in their effects. Why would they need to be, in order to fit into that category? If we are now supposed to prefer anecdotal evidence over scientific evidence, why bother with science at all?!! I don't dismiss or discount your experience, but it is just your experience and doesn't cover all the varieties of that chemical irritant or make less long lasting types of it not still fit into that general classification. Your experience isn't everybody else's experience with a chemical irritant, such as those protesters were subjected to.
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Daniel Gray
You are just having a knot in your panties John as I just proved that the experts who do know the difference between tear gas and pepper balls, heck I even used the local news channel that called you a liar as well as the Secret Service the DC Police the US Military and others who agreed thaqt you are a liar; and here you go again off on a tangent proving that you are a liar. Heck even Dr. Ranit Mishori, senior medical adviser for Physicians for Human Rights and a Georgetown University professor of family medicine and Scientific American and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, pepper spray is NOT a type of “tear gas” but “riot control agent.” which will cause stinging in the eyes. Tear gas causes the eyes to produce fluid and as such causes blindness because of the excess fluid. Since you clearly dont know what the heck you are talking about, do us all a favor and shut up
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, if your comment weren't being put in that long very thin line, it would be easier to reply to. You are very welcome for my lecture to you about our electoral system here in the U.S. Yes, we still have the Electoral College here, just as we still have racial profiling and racial bigotry in our police forces against black people and murders of black people by the police, and we have had the Electoral College and the racism in the police departments and murders of black people by the police for the same amount of time, about 401 years, but something's still being here is no sign that it should be here and shouldn't be done away with!!! That's what all these protests are about: NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE!!! Something doesn't automatically earn the right to be here just because it's been here for a long time!! Overruling millions of popular votes by an Electoral College is also not justice and deserves to go, the same as racism in police departments and murders of black people by police must go!!! Talking about justice does make a difference, as you are seeing right now with all the reforms that are happening across the country, due to these protests!! Trumpelstiltskin is still only the appointed "president", not the actually elected president, and he very soon won't even be that anymore when we vote his cantankerous old ass out on November 3rd!! All real Americans protest against wrong-doing by you Republicans and Conservatives and that LIAR!!! in the White House!!! So, until you do that, you are just a visitor and foreigner here, not a real American!! That's all that I can make out to reply to from that thin line of your post.
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Lionheart
I’m sorry you see me as a visitor and a foreigner even though I have documentation to show I’m a naturalized citizen having “legally” applied, along with my family, for citizenship. If you see me as a foreigner and a visitor, having arrived her legally, you have me wondering what you call those who are bursting into this country illegally. Do you have any kinder words to say about them than you do me, a naturalized citizen?
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John D. Partin
Yes, I have kinder words to say about those who have sought and been granted asylum in this country than I do about you because they appreciate being here and know what this country actually stands for and have empathy and sympathy for other people, unlike yourself, who just says "To Hell with them and let them go somewhere else!!!" I've got mine and don't care if anybody else gets theirs!!". I have nothing but contempt for your and like-"minded" people's attitude about this!!! You haven't understood the first thing about what it means to be an American or even a compassionate human being, for that matter, when all that you care about is you and your family and everybody else who is in need should just go somewhere else, if they need immediate help!!! So, your documentation of becoming a naturalized citizen isn't worth the paper that it's printed on until you understand that and care about these people, too!!! You haven't understood the words on the Statue of Liberty: "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: I lift my lamp beside the golden door". What do you think those words are talking about?!! Only people who don't need any help and have time to go through regular immigration processes?!! That isn't what they sound like they are saying to me and all other right-thinking people, who take those words to mean what they say----and not just what you and other people want them to say and convince yourselves that they are saying!! "Wretched refuse of your teeming shore" and "tired, poor, huddled masses yearning to breathe free" don't sound at all like people who don't need immediate help and can just wait their turn behind other people in a line, who don't have their pressing problems and need to get into the country!! They sound, rather, exactly like people who do need immediate help!! Besides which, I see your being against these refugees from South and Central America's coming into this country through asylum as racist against brown people, since white people from Soviet bloc countries who applied for and received asylum here weren't the object of so much hate and vilification as all these people coming up from Mexico have been subjected to. Even you aren't, hopefully, against asylum for anybody under any circumstances, but only against it for these brown people!! Irish and other European immigrants have come into the country at Ellis Island without all the hullabaloo and stink that is being raised about these immigrants coming up from Mexico---and got in fairly quickly, too!! Your attitude doesn't even come up to the standard of Jesus' humanitarianism, though you reject the Bible as fairy tales and myths. Reject myths and fairy tales all that you want, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater and reject loving your neighbor as yourself and doing unto others as you would have others do unto you, too, just because it's in the Bible!! Jesus said: "If you love those who love you, what have you done more than others? Even the tax collectors do that. And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others?" (Matthew 5:46-47) and "Whatsoever you have done to the least of these, my brethren, you have done unto me" (Matthew 25:40). Other people before you have thrown the baby out with the bathwater and are still throwing the baby out with the bathwater and rejected and reject Jesus' humanitarian ideas because of not believing in the fairy tales in the Bible and so dismissing all of it, when it got in the way of what they wanted to do. So, don't be like them! This country isn't an exclusive country club for only the elite and a select few, as you and many others seem to think, but is a nation of immigrants and people who have cared about other people. Nothing could be more ridiculous than for one group of immigrants here to condemn and reject another group of immigrants here!! Even the first settlers on Plymouth Rock and in Jamestown came from another country (England) and were those "tempest-tossed yearning to breathe free" people that the poem by Emma Lazarus talked about, and were accepted here by those who were already here, instead of being immediately thrown back into their ships and told to go somewhere else by the Native Americans (which might have worked out better for the Native Americans!). They didn't do that. Why shouldn't immigrants, as all of us here are, show the same mercy and compassion to others coming here as was shown to us or our forebears?!! Even the Native Americans came across a land bridge from Siberia 10,000 years ago and so they came from somewhere else, too. Learn what it actually means to be an American and a decent and compassionate human being to all these other people than just your own and I won't have any more problem about you. Until then (and I don't expect that anytime soon!!), I will have a problem with you!!!
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Lionheart
Try not to get too upset John, I realize you are struggling to understand the importance of law and order in this beautiful country of ours, and I can see you have also been deluded into thinking everyone entering into this country illegally are coming in from war torn countries fearing for their life, you’re a Democrat and I get it. Just take heart that there are many like you managing cities like Seattle, and Chicago etc., so you really are not on your own. My only worry for you is how you’re going to handle our President, President Donald Trump, being in office for another 4 more years.
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, you really don't do patronizing very well and aren't actually in any position to do it, considering your own ridiculous beliefs about your alleged "president", and so just give it up and stick to things that you are able to do, if there are any things that fit into that category!! Leave it to us to talk down to you, as is only proper!! That is just your very immature attempt at evasion. Nobody would have to get upset about your statements, but only smile condescendingly at them and you for making them. We just have to wonder why you and your ilk are still so deluded yourselves about your "president" (and even delude yourselves that it is other people who are "deluded"!!) and might, occasionally, become a little exasperated by such blindness on your part, but then realize that all of you aren't at the level of maturity and comprehension to be able to do or understand any better than that and we just have to humor you and condescend to you still!! You still won't get it, but the evidence of your "president's" being the actually worst president in U.S. history has already been sent to you and it is quite obvious (to all to whom it can be obvious, which leaves you out!) that refugees fleeing to this country must be running away from terrorism in their countries, since criminals don't need to sneak into America among hordes of people coming here and consider themselves "above all those people", anyway, and wouldn't "stoop to their level" and that only Liberals actually understand the importance of law and order in this beautiful country of ours, but, of course, understand that you aren't up to that level in your maturity or comprehension and so have to make allowances for people such as you!! Honestly, you will get used to sensible government once again after that IDIOT!!! Trumpelstiltskin is voted out of office on November 3rd and thrown down the stairs and out on his ass on the street, if he refuses to leave voluntarily on January 20, even if you don't think that you will be able to right now!! You will probably even enjoy seeing him thrown out of the White House and out on the street, too, the same as the rest of us will enjoy it!!! That will really be very delightful and amusing to see!! You will become a good Democrat and Liberal, too, in time, and see the common sense and logic of it!! Just wait and see!!!
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flugo
'jonny fartin': Some more of your usual emotive, mire that is rather devoid of articulate and objective information.
Most people can tolerate the LEGAL entering in the US by immigrants. Some past legislation has 'opened the door' to a lot of illegals. And, according to the New York Times, the majority of immigrants committing crimes are non-whites. Also, those killed by police last year were more whites than others. Yet, Those killed by police, over half were non-whites armed with a deadly weapon.
A big problem is the lack of respect for authority. Most of those killed by the police disobeyed police orders: STOP, DROP YOUR KNIFE, DON'T REACH IN YOUR POCKET, etc.
It start in the home:'Be home before midnight'. At school: 'No cell phone use in the class'. At work: 'Be at work on time'. The cops; 'Step outta the car'. The Governor; 'Speed limit 60'. The General: 'Go'. The President: 'Get rid of DOCA'.. God: 'Thou shalt not'.
The Bible says in Romans 13 we are respect those in authority. And, it says to pray for those in leadership. There are legal ways to register different points of view, and God will give wisdom to whose who have issues with leadership .
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Daniel Gray
Just stop lying Johnny, all you are doing is showing your ignorance. The Park Police, the DC police and the US Military all say that no tear gas was ever used. Now since they know far more what tear gas is then you will ever know, zip your lips.
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flugo
'Black Lives Matter'?! What a crock! Why aren't the blacks protesting about the MILLIONS of black babies that are aborted annually? Don't these black lives matter? In fact, black women in New York abort more black babies than they birth!
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Hm yep nope, based on the typically number of children, and age that most women of color begin having children, and that most PoC both hispanic and black are devout christians of various sects, Your claim seems based more on far right falsehoods than any stats I can dig up on brith and abortion rates in NY.
Which ofcourse coming from you is typical. Abortion is not relevant in this topics forum comments, The article has nothing to do with it, as such your babble is invalidated even if you had some actual facts.
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Rev Carolyn Belcher
He is no Christian that for sure he is another Hitler as far as I'm concerned ... he is not from this land ... This Native land.... I will not disagree or argue a point.. It not for me to judge .....as I said from my point of view.... only one can judge us......as he said if you trust in him and his protection you do not need walls keep your enemy away he will be all protection his children will need ...... have blessed night
Carolyn Belcher
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Joseph A Dinovi
Very disturbed that this venue was allowed to be turn into a political path for debate. You have become a part of the problem. I do not believe in silence, but this is not the venue. We should be about peace and looking forward not wasting our time looking back and criticizing. What would Christ do? Brother Joe
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Daniel James Hockenberry
I look at it many different ways, a lot of people have it out for the President those men’s first priority is his protection and well being I don’t think the President ordered those men to harm the people but if they were not moving back then those men had to move them. I seen the photo shoot as publicity only. It amazes me how many people don’t see the good he does but they are there to attack him as soon as he does something wrong, it’s gods job to judge him not ours if your bringing your hostilities toward him into this then your wrong for doing so there is a reason for the separation of church and state when you see him do good you ask god to bless him when he messes up then you pray for him and hope that he sees and learns from those mistakes. In all my years on earth no matter who our president was I never seen such disrespect towards a president the media attacks him constantly, his opposition attacks him constantly, and god will judge them one day for the spread of lies and treachery. It was not illegal to force those people back but it was done harshly and wrong. If a man is a Christian and he does wrong is he no longer a Christian? I thought god was forgiving and gave forgiveness and all a man or woman had to do was but ask.
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David L Huey
Your lead in title said WWJD. I think it is pretty much laid out. Jesus swept out the money changers out of the Temple saying " My father's house is a house of prayer but you have made it into a den of thieves".
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Ken Morrow
Very poorly conceived and executed. It is always ill-advised for American politicians to attempt to create religious symbolism. This was soooooo freakin', "Look at DJT, the reincarnation of Charlemagne!" that I could not believe what I was seeing. But to be fair to the President and his Keystone Cop Cabinet, the rest of our leadership class isn't doing any better. Pale Horse and Black Horse have really exposed the incompetence of White Horse this time. Pretty much the only option left is more Red Horse (ref: Rev 6). The frailties of human self-governance laid bare for all to see. Praise God!
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Rev. RJ Levesque Jr
Wow, lots of people with Anti-Trump syndrome in here. LOL Here's my two cents: Can we please keep the politics out of our religions? I notice the boards here becoming ever more political in nature here also, which is about to make me do the same thing with this board my wife and I did with our television, turn off everything that is depressing, stressful, anti-social, and most of all POLITICAL!
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H Alexander Johnson
The absolute LIBERAL FAR LEFT Anti-American views continually expressed on this web-site have reached a tipping point for me. I'm done.
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Brandy Mearnic
What atrocity to America. He held the bible UPSIDE down the way Hitler did. He has had peaceful protestors be subjected to police brutality so his hideousness could be recognized instead. He has sat on his hands and have said NOTHING in regards to George Floyd. He lives for the pain and suffering of others.... to make a long post short....he's a MONSTER!
It sickens me to think and know just how many brainwashed people actually like this devil. We do NOT need this abomination for another 4 years. VOTE HIM OUT!
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Pastor Rolinda
I’m not even going to comment on the stunt this President and his RABBI pulled. Reminds me of why Jesus became a Rabble Rouser in Temple. Which is why Jesus had the Last Supper asking the Apostles’s to teach his ways and regularly meet for Breaking of Bread in His honor. I’ recently became an ordained Minister as I am have found myself led to serve with incredible dreams. I have had dreams come true as my grandmother did and was taught they were meant to help others. To always listen. Lately, I have been dreaming of many of us being called to bring Sunday Family Supper’s with Breaking of Bread family style the focus with social distancing. I dreamt two nights ago that there were hundreds of us being called with Archangel Michael leading. He armed us with remembering why Jesus had The Last Supper in the first place. Wanted us to remember Him and His teachings of peace, love & compassion for ALL. As I was waking I heard, “Remember do this in MY name. The World needs to PAUSE and reflect on God’s Will.” and we were shown families coming together via internet. Praying, breaking bread and singing. I now have a friend in Italy I hope to help me. We used to have weekly dinners and sharing of Bible stories and worship. This is what we ALL need to do as the minute I woke I heard 28 Churches have tested positive for COVID. We are meant to help keep people safe social distancing. I’m afraid Trump’s Rabbi is no different than when the Jews arrested JESUS for being a Rabble Rouser. The Rabbi is Jewish people. Do not believe Jesus is the son of God and we know differently! Have any of you had this dream as well? Or should I ask, “How many remember of us remember Archangel Michael is leading us to bring Jesus teaches inTo the homes as families on internet? “ All we need is a basket of bread and wine/juice and the BIBLE!
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Giovanni T.Coleman
Dear members of this desired peaceful nation. Yes President Trump was out of line using excessive force for his own gain. I disagree with the destruction of property, but in large groups of protesters you're gonna have the good and the bad. Not all cops are bad either so we have to pray that a peaceful resolve will be met.
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Dan Anderson
Personally, I see no legitimate benefit for him even having this "photo op" for ANY reason. It only made it worse when he had Americans who were protesting legally disbanded with hostility and harm.
If the POTUS would attempt to stop destroying the Ninth Commandment of Judeo-Christian beliefs and attempt to tell the truth much more often, I think the citizens of the US would start to muster up more trust toward him. As it is, however, it appears the POTUS has caused a great deal of harm to both his political agenda AND the population of life throughout the world, threatening environmental and health issues, by cutting back on protections put in place by earlier government representatives.
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Vivian T Harris
No way is what he did ok, spiritual or socially correct. It also goes against the constitution. How dare he use the military for his personal gain. This is a stunt as you all know to have people think this man is spiritual or religious in some way. Rev. Vivian Harris
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Ellie_Loves
This poor excuse for a President has proven time and time again that he is not fit to lead this country and now he's attacking protesters for a photo op? Instead of uniting us, he continues to divide us. I weep for humanity and the path we are currently on.
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Jeff McClain
Here's the real tragedy, after years of politicians infiltrating our young people through indoctrination in the schools and the streets, the only thing anyone can argue about is politics. The only one crying will be God himself. Our country is slowly being sliced into tribes by our political leaders, God is under attack, our children are being whisked away by Hollywood, video games, politicians and the corrupt educational system. Yes indeed sooner rather than later God will remove his hand from our nation and leave us vulnerable, maybe he already has!!!! All anyone can do is argue the politics, red team and the blue team, we have truly lost sight of what really matters, decades of organizations brainwashing our children and taking God and Jesus completely out of everything. So go ahead, keep arguing which side of politics your on, in the meantime Satan will take full advantage of the mayhem to complete his mission. As for myself I'll keep my eyes on God and Jesus and pray for both sides of the isle!!!
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Darryl Mizer
A Psychological Analysis of Donald Trump Narcissistic Personality Disorder One of the words most commonly thrown around to define Donald Trump’s personality is that he is a narcissist.
A narcissist is someone who is intensely focused on themselves – often to the point of self-adoration – and belittles others. They spend an inordinate amount of time listing their accomplishments (as proof of their greatness) and it is impossible to have a balanced conversation with them as they invariably pay cursory or no attention to what you say. Defense Mechanisms Defense mechanisms are the mind’s powerful ability to protect itself by avoiding feelings of discomfort and anxiety and negative perceptions of self. You may recognize at least one of them: repression. Sigmund Freud may have had some outlandish ideas about sexuality but his genius was his ability to notice defense mechanisms. He identified many, including repression, which he considered most fundamental. There is also regression (going back to an infantile or younger stage in life to feel safer) and projection (blaming others for our own faults). Reaction Formation Reaction formation is a fascinating strategy because it flies in the face of logic. It is the expression of feelings towards an event, a situation or something about ourselves that is the opposite of what we truly feel. Power and Dominance Nothing disturbs Mr. Trump more than someone questioning his power and dominance. This is because there is a deeply hidden part of Trump that doesn’t think he is great. And if we were to imagine, just for the sake of the argument, that he agrees to therapy and receives psychological treatment then we may be able to reach into to the bottom of that suitcase. And based on the arguments set forth in this article, I argue we will find a very insecure child hiding somewhere. 350 psychologists agree with this diagnosis. I truncated it due to the length. (I am a retired psychologist and agree.)
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TheSound.com
Matthew chapter 7, verse 15.
“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. “You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thistles, are they? “Even so, every good tree bears good fruit; but the bad tree bears bad fruit. “A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. “Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire” So then, you will know them by their fruits. “Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. “Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' “And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'”
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The Rev. William C, Millhouse
Absolutely nothing that he does is justified.
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George Perkins Jamison
God forgives why can't you. Maybe you are only a Christian in name only. He is a grate leader.
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Asger
I figure he's just holding up his collection of Dick and Jane books that he finally made it through. Finally got that beautiful gold star, it's the best gold star, there's good and bad stars but he got the wonderful one and Mexico paid for it. Jhina called and said his bigly reading skill are now yuge.
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Reverend D.
I honestly don't know what President Trumps's true motives were in the so called "photo op." It s not for me to judge him. The One Infinite Creator will judge President Trump"s Deeds negative or positive. I will certainly pray & meditate that he will open that good book from time to time to help guide the President in his daily decisions!
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David Arthur Lewis
Who Would Jesus Tear Gas?
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Mark Edwin Currier
just-just. The Roman's at that time
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Phillip Lamar Newton
I’m guessing that 99%of you narrow minded reprobates also hate America first and love anything or anyone who doesn’t supports our country.
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Susanne Long
It seems that everyone has an opinion about this. But...that’s all it is-an opinion/a personal “perception”. We each create our own reality based on our belief system, much of which is buried deep in our subconscious. Belief does not equal truth.
Time to wake up. The only “Truth” is unconditional love. My comment on this is that we all need to focus on the fact that we are “one”” and stop taking sides. It only continues to divide us.
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Mark Edwin Currier
He did a great job. All lives matter! Even the leftwing loons who loot for justice...I mean just-us.
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Darrell Hebert
Trump won in 2016... just when people thought he would do at least some of the things he promised. Now that he has kept his promises he will be re elected. Leftists and their news channels, were against him then, and are still against him, just as they were against Reagan and Bush.
The “protestors” made the mistake of throwing
Things at Law Enforcement. When that happens, crowd control techniques are used.So interesting that rioting really only happens in democrat cities with democrat mayors, democrat police chiefs, and democrat AGs. They are the ones BTW who set rules and The tone for their police departments.
Peaceful protest is awesome in American. Once they break laws they need to be taken down... to the station in cuffs.
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Stan Partin
I thought this was a site for thoughtful & peaceful discussion, not political vitriol. Lionheart & John D Partin, (no relation to me), should exchange phone numbers or e-mails so they can continue their tirade against one another in person. It is obvious they will never be on the same page. Please, as my next door neighbors & I have done, agree to disagree.
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John D. Partin
Stan Partin, this is a site for thoughtful and peaceful discussion---with thoughtful and peaceful people, but why should I or anyone else treat all people, indiscriminately, as "thoughtful and peaceful" when many of them just aren't, for the sake of maintaining a phony "peace"? Why would Lionheart and I or any other people all have to be on the same page in order to discuss anything in here? I'm sorry if our discussion bothers or upsets you, but this is a public forum and party line and so open for everyone here to read and reply to. I'm not going to just "agree to disagree" with someone that I think is seriously wrong because someone might be bothered or upset by what I say to them. I wouldn't "agree to disagree" with a Nazi or a Klansman or a terrorist or a white slaver or a pedophile or many other people and so wouldn't do that with a Trumpophile or Conservative, either. That's pushing "keeping the peace" too far!! Jesus, who was the most loving and peaceful person who ever lived, couldn't get along with some people or refrain from telling them that they were wrong and what he thought of them every chance that he got. I don't need to do it any better than he did!! "Peace on Earth---to men of good will", not indiscriminately. He is entirely welcome to his views, but when he brings them in front of me and I think that they are wrong, I'm going to say something about that, which is my 1st Amendment right and not something that I'm interested in curtailing or going to curtail. Besides, our arguing is for the purpose of convincing other people in here either that he is right or I am right, not just for ourselves, in the search for truth here, which isn't always polite, friendly, neat, and tidy. That is the purpose of all debating.
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Kaylin Elise Somavia
And truly, we are surprised by this why? When have you ever seen him act as a responsible human with concerns and feelings for anyone but himself and his bank account? Don't get your hopes up, they will be dashed .
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Master Wolf KSC
Really really tone-deaf action, and he doubled down on lying about whether they used teargas on the protesters while they were trampling their civil rights.
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Anthony Beaver
I feel his act was completely out of line. There was no reason they should have attacked those protesters. I feel it should not just be black lives matter!! It should be " ALL LIVES MATTER!!!" They nation is getting way carried away with all this! I agree the officer that killed George Floyd should be charged and convicted of first degree murder, but as it says in the bible "Let he that is without sin throw the first stone" We should allow justice system handle it and not try to defund the police because if that were to happen the entire country would be in chaos and we would be under marshal law and face it none of us want that!!!!
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John D. Partin
Anthony L. Beaver, all lives do matter, but special emphasis has to be put upon black lives' mattering, more than on white lives' mattering, because black people are far more often the victims of police and white violence and murders than are white people and white lives' mattering is just taken for granted in this country and world. Jewish lives also mattered in Nazi Germany, but nobody was standing up for or marching for Jewish lives there, if they wanted to go on living, too. German lives were safe; Jewish lives weren't safe. People here can stand up for black lives and so that is what they should be doing!! So, your saying "let he that is without sin throw the first stone" doesn't apply to this situation. This call for black lives' mattering and racial justice and equality won't result in martial law, but only the reform of our police departments and the DOJ, which are long overdue!!
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Daniel J. Trebas
Hmmm....Reading...and then scanning all the posts has left me realizing a few things. People have really become more polarized on the issue of politics. Which leads to the next thought: when it's all said and done there will be A LOT more said than done. And a final thought of some bible verse saying something about, "and if possible they would fool the very elect"; with no comment on who would be fooling who as it applies these days. But definitely things to take note of.
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Diaphanous
This entry from the DSM 5, succinctly describes one of many maladies the leader??? Of the "free world" suffers from.
"A grandiose sense of self-importance. A preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love. A belief that he or she is special and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people or institutions. A need for excessive admiration."
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Brien
Where do I go with this? I read thru most of the posts so far and most miss the point. Let us dispose of this topic. 1. Protesters were peaceful. No, they were not. They have the right to protest, just as the authorities have a duty to uphold the law. 2. The protesters were attacked. No, they were not. They were ordered to clear the area, which they chose not to do. The authorities then cleared the area. 3. The president was ultimately responsible for this situation. Yes he was. By the fact that he is the president, the authorities had no other choice but to perform protection details. 4. The president was irresponsible for chosing to do a photo op in the midst of known protests. Yes he was. Enough said about this. 5. The president's bible stunt was in poor taste and excluded all other religions. Yes, it was and yes it did. This president has chosen to align himself with one or two groups of people instead of trying to unite as many as possible. I find it amazing that many religious leaders condemn the president's actions yet the believers of those religions applaud his actions. Seems that there is a disconnect there. 6. Now, here is where we have to look at the bigger picture, so zoom your mind out. The 2 party donkey versus elephant system has failed this country for at least the last 50 years. Politicians are bought and sold on a regular basis. Holding office is supposed to be a service to your country. Instead it has turned into a profit machine. The only thought a politician has today is how can I keep my job. Holding office was never meant to be a career. It is a SERVICE to your country. In closing, I have said it before and I repeat it now.....it is circling the drain. All you have to do is read the posts here. I am truly sorry, not for any of you, but for the children that will grow up in a broken world....peace
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Burruss Scott Williams
Simple, prior to this stunt the president's approval rating with evangelicals was falling, it was in the mid 90 % and had fallen to around 70 -75 %, he had to give them a bone to maintain support.
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Stan Partin
John, I stand behind my previous posting. Your continuing name calling battle with Lionheart is neither peaceful or thoughtful.
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Stan Partin
John, I stand behind my previous posting. Your continuing name calling battle with Lionheart is neither peaceful or thoughtful.
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John D. Partin
Stan Partin, I also stand behind my previous posting. My continuing ("name calling", as you call it) battle with Lionheart isn't required to be peaceful, though I consider it very thoughtful against his position, because he isn't a peaceful or thoughtful person and peacefulness shown toward him would be pearls cast before swine and just wasted on him!! It wasn't peaceful for Jesus to call the Pharisees "whited sepulchres" and "a brood of vipers" or drive the moneychangers out of the temple with a scourge, overturn their tables, and say to them "This is a house of prayer and you have made it a den of thieves!", either, but that is what he said and did. That precedent of Jesus' behavior toward the moneychangers in the temple and the scribes and Pharisees may mean nothing at all to you, but it definitely means something to me. Peacefulness simply isn't the proper or effective method in dealing with some people, as Jesus' example proves, and is considered by them a sign of "weakness". This was also shown by Neville Chamberlain's attempts to deal peacefully with and appease Adolf Hitler, who was only encouraged in his plans for conquest by all that and took that as a sign of "weakness". The Book of Ecclrsiastes says "There is a time for peace and a time for war, and for every purpose under the heavens". That shows that peacefulness isn't appropriate toward every person or all the time.
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John D. Partin
Stan Partin, if it is your further objection to my battle with Lionheart that that isn't "loving my enemies", I will say to you that loving one's enemies is most often done, outside of acts of kindness toward them, by hitting them right between the eyes with the truth!! (not opinions or dislike of them, but just the facts), which their so-called "friends" will never tell them, since they are all suck-ups, brown nosers, ass kissers, and yes men or women, and which they will never figure out themselves because of their egos' and self-justification getting in the way of that. Telling our enemies the truth is how we show love toward them, usually, as Jesus showed love even toward his enemies by hitting them right between the eyes with the truth about them by telling them that they were whited sepulchres and a brood of vipers!! That is called tough love, since love isn't all sweetness and light all the time!!
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George Thomas Duvall Burroughs
Ignorance is bliss, and the re e are a lot of happy people . . . From the top on down . Members of of the Almight's ministry should be striving to educate there flock that the Almighty , Trinity and all of his believers in the Almighty , regardless of the man made laws, restrictions and conceptions of whom is qualified to believe, worship and accept the Almighty. Peace be with you and all in your flock . . .
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Martha Knight
In most discussions of the Bible photo-op I don't see any mention of the fact the Bible being held aloft by Trump is an RSV, a version that many evangelicals and Christian Right leaders and members consider unreliable, a tool of apostasy. For instance, it does not support the virgin birth. Trump would not have any awareness of that, or of the version of the Bible some staffer handed him.But it seems to me evangelicals would and Baptists would. They might accept the KJV, the MKJV, the NIV or even the NRSV, but not the RSV.
Numerous comments have been made alleging that the Bible is being held upside down in the photo, but that is not true. A couple photos showed enough of the back to make it possible for viewers to see some print on the spine, showing it is right-side up. But in most of the photos we can see the sewn-in bookmark ribbons with ends protruding at the bottom, exactly the way they do in Bibles with such bookmarks. Otherwise they wouldn't work!
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Darryl Mizer
I am 75 and have been exposed to many forms of leaders in this country. Vitriol began with the "Tea Party". Since then the left and right have grown further apart. Now we have a "leader" who has increased our division even further. I remember hearing Eisenhower's speech in a small town. For a Republican, he was further left than liberals are today. (1956 acceptance speech.) The government worked mostly together until George Bush and Obama. It appears we are two separate countries........because of the hate and anger between two political views; two political parties? Are you kidding me?
Trump has been working on this before he was elected. He only belittles people including Gold Families and John McCain. Others he refers to as old, slow, and worse.
As a retired psychologist I understand that trump has serious mental deficits. His decisions do not reflect the will of the people. Since he has been in office he has yet to have a setting where he speaks to the American People. We surely need someone to include the country, have the capability to make sound decisions, left, center or right. We are missing the experience and maturity of a national leader. By every indication he does not want a second term. Just my opinion. No reason to get angry. . . .Well maybe.
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Matthew Ulmer
Is anyone even sure President Trump is even holding a Bible in this picture? It could literally be a blank book for all we know.
I think the following point should be made regardless of all the rest of Trump's behaviour - people were lawfully protesting in the Park. The authorities, apparently commanded to do so by AG Barr, attacked them and removed them to make a path for Trump's photo op. The entire thing was both illegal to begin with, and stupid altogether.
Trump used the opportunity for a photo opp. I think Jesus would have been a protester. I think that answers the question. . .WWJD
Yes I agree. He attacked people to get a photo op. He has no compassion for others. I think Jesus would have been protesting.
Darryl, you and MarilynKS are both sick individuals. You don't know the difference between protesters and looters and rioters. Once you assault law enforcement or destroy property, you graduate to rioter and only deserve prison time. You don't even get the correct information from the fake news. Trump did not attack anyone. When you say that YOU are a LIAR.!
Hi Donna, I consider protesters are protesters. Looters are looters. I don't see them as the same. I think looters take advantage of the situation.
PS I hope I'm not "sick" because we have different opinions.
I do agree with you that Jesus more than likely would have been a protester.
'de mise': The Jesus to whom you're referring is not in the Bible! And, not What WOULD Jesus Do?, but 'What DID Jesus Do?' is the issue!
I so much agree with you. What Trump and Barr did was wrong because the protesters were peaceful.
"lawfully protesting in the Park"--wrong--Constitution says "peaceful protest'! This was not peaceful for the whole. My son was put on ready alert and filled in for the injured secret service agents to protect Our White House. Rationalization of 'peaceful protests' that are really riots with injuries and major destruction is why this country is in real trouble! People==get your heads out of you arses and see the truth.
I pray Jesus will show you the light.
Someone need to show Laura Lee the light!!! Did she not see who got out of hand with the protesting? Apparently not. We will just have to pray for her and whoever she's talking about, because I didn't see what she supposedly saw.
I consider protesters- protesters. Looters are looters. I don't see them as the same. I think looters take advantage of the situation.