Catholic Hospitals: Faith over Health

joy

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randy

we are talking about in the USA. secondly the phrase walk down the street means can go somewhere elese it doesn't mean literally walk . some people really are to stupid to be allowed to have a say on how things are done

Inis Magrath (@InisMagrath)

To every commenter here who claims a woman can just "walk down the street" to another hospital -- that is FALSE. First of all, there are cases where a hospital patient is not ambulatory. Second, there are countries where that option doesn't remedy the matter, such as Ireland where a woman recently died because a Catholic hospital refused a life-saving abortion procedure in a case where the fetus was already no longer going to survive. It's a horrible case and it highlights how religious ideology can cloud sound medical reasoning. See: www.nytimes.com/2013/04/20/world/europe/jury-cites-poor-medical-care-in-death-of-indian-woman-in-ireland.html?_r=0

randy

first off if they refuse to perform the service they won't be taking your money. and what about the individual religious rights of the doctors and nurses as you seem to forget they also have rights. you have no right to go to that hospital they choose to take you based on their beliefs and practices. If their beliefs and practices don't meet your needs you are free to go elese where. and no they shouldn't be denied non profit status as they are ran by the church to fulfill the churches mission. when you picked a faith based business you do so with the full knowledge of their beliefs. the constitution gives them the right to practice their beliefs even In business . you on the left need to grow up and realize you aren't entitled to anything . if I go to a secular hospital I don't expect the nurses or doctors to pray with me even if I ask but I'd expect them to offer to at a religious hospital . you need to reassess you priorities

TC

If the hospital takes your money, receives government money, then they can shut up and put up. If they don't want to do that then this country should deny them any government money, remove any non profit status, and the hospital can pay the highest taxes that can be levied against them. Religion should NEVER trump individual rights.

Minister Daniel

Why do some get the right but other do not (like Catholic) If that is their choice then make your choice but do not force your choices onto others. I believe Jesus stands at the door to be invited in not orders you to open it and do as he wants. He lets all make a choice. Minister Daniel

Randy

if you go to a catholic hospital the doctors can be expected to follow the teachings of the church same for a presbitarian or even Muslim . my right to practice my faith doesn't ever stop . you can ho to a secular hospital that's your choice but that's where your tight ends . you come to a catholic hospital you come knowing they practice based apon tge doctrine of the Catholic Church . you have no right to go there ! you are allied access bc you pay and agree to their terms

Steven Claar

Plain and simple religion has no place in hospitals when it comes to treatment!

Tom

Again, heal the sick.

James Pace

What happened to the Hippocratic oath of do no harm?

Minister Leslie Kulac

Well said, what alot of self righteous people dont see is the suffering of the unwanted! The single parent families with no health insurance.
Unfortunately the highups in the so called religious hospitals are making 6 figure salaries. Which in there minds puts them in a position to judge!

Paul

One of the major problems that I have with bringing religion into fields that are not best served by religion is medicine. This is because it is not the religion and faith of the patient that is of importance, as that is generally disregarded from my experience and the experiences of others as well.

Also why is pro life really anti life? I say this in is it better for society to have children with none to raise and nurture them, or for only those that are mature and healthy enough to properly raise children for them to only be doing so? After all it is worse for someone to have children that hates children to raise the children, than to have someone that loves children to have children. This is overlooked along with those that want all women that are pregnant to have children (as their body is not theirs to care for, as they are the property of others), and they have children that they are unable to care for. There was a study published in "Freekonomics" about free abortions to poor women reducing crime, as those who could afford to and were mentally prepared to properly raise children, had children that lead to a reduction in crime, and the children that would otherwise be criminals to get what they want in life that they are unable to get elsewhere by stealing and robbing etc were not born. Where are those people that want women to have children when they need money and support to raise those children, they are not there as they want to increase suffering. I know Buddha said life is suffering, but that is not what was intended.

I can see now where there are many doctors that do not see chronic pain as suffering, even if it decreases the quality of life to the point where a person no longer looks forward to waking up the next morning. Those that think this is a mental problem on the part of the chronic pain patient, do not understand life. There are many of Gods creatures in nature that also have the same feelings, and when they get to that point they generally quit eating or do other things to end their suffering. We are just one of many living beings on this planet, the most powerful when it comes to changing our environment to suit our needs, use of language, and many other things that lesser creatures are unable to do. That does not mean that we are not a part of, and related to what was here before us. The main thing that I can see that really sets mankind apart from all the other creatures on this planet is our ability to hurt and kill each other at a level that is beyond the comprehension of any other creature on this planet. There are many ways to do this, and religion is just as deadly if used as a weapon against someone as any firearm, however the suffering in pain before death is much much longer.

When I think of pro life, I think of being pro ALL life, not only one small part of the great creation. In other words, I'm saying that I see the statement pro-life as saying save the unborn children at the expense of all other life.

JW

Honestly...she had been RAPED! Probably in shock. Ever attended one in the ER. I have. Furthermore, the Doctor violated EMTALA and several other federal regulations. The law is clear: the doctor can refuse to treat, but he must then provide a referral of someone who will. Sorry to burst anyone's balloon, but that's the way it works in the real world.

Minister Leslie Kulac

Where is their oath when you have no insurance, or cant afford the prescription they write?

Rev Troy McLean

First off, there was no abortion brought up. This producure would not be elective, since an additional pregency could jepordize her life. This was to be done after the present baby was born.

Tom

Whatever happened to "heal the sick"? I do not remember any conditions on this

Rev Troy McLean

To all that bring up the aurgment of seperation of church and state, the last thing we need in such a case would be more government intervention. The hospital in such a case would be wrong, even in God's eye. Their stance of pro-life is warpped in this instance. All doctors take an oath to do no harm, by not preforming the procudure they would in fact violate that oath. Because they would be signing a death warrant for her. I would hope that her ob/gyn would find her an alternative to help her get it done.

Rev. Rene

The problem is that the interrelations are between two people, and both have their belief. Government should have the right to legally separate church and state, and in an ideal world humanity and common sense should override the schism between religious feeling and medical need of the patient. We unfortunately do not live in that world, yet.

Kieran Nolan

I work for one of the biggest Catholic "health" companies in the US. We have chaplains of many denominations who serve our customers. Although I have witnessed many examples of good, Christian care for patients, my experience tells me that all they are is an insurance company that wants your money. They state up front that they don't only accept people that are Catholic or Christian. The controlling forces don't give a crap about any religion besides capitalism.

Reverend M

People do NOT always have a "choice", as some have stated. None of us actually knows where these people live. There are many small towns and rural areas of this country who are not offered any hospital, and there are some who are ONLY offered religion based hospitals. Even so, if they are honestly "religious" people, it wouldn't matter if others' beliefs conflict with their own. We are all one, we all have the same creator, and we should love and take care of all unconconditionally.

ralph baginski

as an employee of a catholic hospital, I can say without hesitation that I have never seen anyone denied care because of their personal beliefs. in fact, unless a patient makes their beliefs known, we rarely even know what their religion is. I think this entire conversation is based on a moot point. the Hippocratic oath and the law makes denial of care on any grounds pretty much impossible. its called professional ethics.

Jim

In every case cited in this article, the medical procedure was optional, the patient's life was not in jeopardy. COBRA protections don't apply. These cases could have been denied legally for any reason or no reason at all. In this case, it seems they were denied due to hospital policy. PS Employees of Catholic hospitals are bound by the belief of their employer, not their own. They either accept that or move on.

Chris

Certainly these patients have a number of hospitals to choose from. Some may or may not be included in whatever insurance they have, but that's their choice, right? They could choose to pay more and go to a different hospital....

That being said, if any organization that claims to be religious is receiving tax breaks or more importantly tax dollars from the general public, they should not be allowed to discriminate based on religious preference. I can't choose where my tax dollars go. Why should they be allowed to choose who benefits from my money? If your religion is so shaky you can't help another human being in need then perhaps you should examine why you follow that particular religion. Most of the belief systems of the world claim to follow a path of helping and tolerance, yet in action do just the opposite. How sad. Is it any wonder we can't have peace?

Walter Green

Health professionals assume a great responsibility for the wellness of their patients when they earn their credentials as physicians, nurses, other health professionals, emergency medical technicians, etc. That responsibility is independent of their religious convictions. If religion prevents you from acting with humanity toward your fellow human beings and providing them the care they need to live a full life according to the scientifically accepted standards of care, then either you should change your religion or you should change your profession. No one forces someone to become a Doctor. Someone does force a rape victim to be a rape victim, and our bodies from time to time force us to deal with horrible diseases. If religion is truly a reason on which to base care decisions, I could reasonably say as a pre-hospital emergency responder that I will never treat a Catholic, no matter how critically injured or how far other help might be away, because of the Catholic massacre of my Protestant ancestors on Saint Batholemew's day. Or I could say I will leave a Republican to die on the side of the road, because my religious beliefs hold the political platform of the Republican Party to be anathema. As tempting as those two propositions (or any other similar evil proposition) might be, you cannot administratively structure a health care system based on this hospital has this belief system so if I have this problem I can only go to that hospital. Nor can you do so ethically or morally.

Howard Stone

No religion should go against God's word. God's word says that we are His children. We are to minister to those children of God. Just because we may not agree does not mean we are above the word of God. Again it should not be about religion, it should be about following the principles and character of God the Father He says what we have done to one of His children, we have done it to Him also..

Heather

There exists a disturbing trend in Catholic hospital entities gobbling up surrounding private practices and even buying out the competition. Their ever-climbing insurance billing shenanigans combined with these and other corporate shark tactics reveal them to be nothing like the charitable arm of the Church that they began as, run by the nuns. In many areas (including mine) they ARE the only option to deliver your baby, and our community is at their mercy. They are a horrible provider from a quality perspective because we have no other choice, and when they kill their patients, it was God's will.

Minister Barbara

As i recall Dr.'s take a specific oath to treat without predjudice, or you dont get a license to practice and it is not a faith based oath. Also, a whole lot of hospitals get federal and/or state funded tax dollars that dont just come from a specific religion of tax payers but also from those they deny treatment for. I dont hear them denying those dollars. As i recall, on Jesus's trip to the cross nothing was said about how many different faith gatherings he passed, he died for all our sins, how shameful people are becoming such hypocrites of their own beliefs. This also makes a whole lot of religios church going folks who dont even follow the commandment, thou shall not kill. If a Dr denies treatment and that person dies, that is murder plain and simple. The rest of the ten commandments, who are they meant for if not for those claiming to be following the lords way.when did God gives his solemn right to judge others to the self righteous. It is sad to see and hear all of this self righteous judgement and condemnation of others no matter the religion or not. I dont know who.pissed in everyone's Post Toasties but just get another bowl for goodness sakes and get over it. Help your neighbor, ask your neighbor who can help you with something you need and smile, is that so hard. We have all had trials, tribulations and very sad things happen to.us but we have also had blessings, joy and happiness.

brother phillip ramey

My belief is like like this. If a dr refuses to give treatment,because of his beliefs. Therefore they sre todding the hyprocratic,oath out the window. He is there to help people,not shirk his responsibility,by pulling the reigious card

Valerie Ward

There is a separation of Church and State. No one has the right to deny a single thing because of a religious belief.

Maria Krantz

I have a niece who goes to a catholic hospital in south dakota, and when she asked for a tubal ligation, they refused because of Catholic Church stance on preventing pregnancies.

Kyaza

When I was reading through this article, I noticed that the women in the first example was at a Catholic hospital. I don't think it's wrong for doctors working at a Catholic hospital (a hospital that advertises its religious affiliation) to upheld the tenets of the faith they follow. In the second example, the hospital was the Good Samaritan Hospital. Both of these hospitals are hospitals with religious affiliations. Because of that, the doctors who work there have the right - and are most likely expected - to uphold the tenets of their religion.

In contrast, public hospitals are secular. If a person goes to a regular, public hospital and the doctor refuses to perform a medical operation due to the faith they follow, then that goes against hospital regulations. A doctor at a public hospital may refuse to do an operation for religious reasons, but that doctor can then refer the patient to another doctor who may be willing to perform the operation.

In a religious hospital, referrals like that are impossible because it is assumed that all the doctors share the same faith and therefore none of the doctors there will be willing to perform an operation that violates the tenets of their faith.

In a way, arguing that a person who goes to a Catholic hospital should expect to receive medical treatment that goes against the tenets of the Catholic faith is like arguing that a person who attends a private Catholic school should be exempt from learning about Catholicism.

M

oh, come on guys, can you stop picking on anybody? I mean all you do is pick, pick, pick. Dr's already have the right to fire patients for not doing what they want done, so why cant hospitals deny patients for religious reasons.

Michael Chaffee

The implication in this "Faith Over Health" article is basically indicting those who hold to their "faith based" beliefs.

The slant (one sidedness) clearly attempts to vilify the adherence to a doctrine and dogma based faith, all along while veiling the obtuse objections to a "believer's" equal rights. This duplicity in this article is glaring and should be recognized as observably shameful and manipulative. This is the same approach that our modern day journalist take with bombarding us with the mass media's propagated social agendas for all the hot button topics of further division. 

The PC police have all but sequestered the jury of the moral majority on this issue in an effort to promote an agenda under the guise of "equality" but, in doing so they seem to have gone tone deft to the screams of their own hypocrisy in propagating this version of inequality.

If equality and acceptance were to be truthfully represented well then everyone would have to be willing to accept that the "rights" for one's choices in religion are equal to the rights to free choices of life style decisions (inclusive of abortions), and should be left up to the individual, right? 

However these choices may be interpreted, we can't eliminate someone's free choices by narrowing the field of possibilities for such choices down to a single common denominator, and then imply that the only definition is to implicate it as intolerance!

By making claims that to choose a God fearing authority over one's alternative choice of self-authority will somehow criminalized a faithful follower as a perpetrator of the crime of intolerance should be transparently embarrassing in any academic argument. I believe it was Mr. "T's" most eloquent phrase that apples here; "I pity the fool" who went to school to learn how to vilify God fearing men and women with such eloquence. 

Whether it's the interpretive adherence to a religious theology or that of a choice in life style, being disrespected for one's beliefs is what is at the crux of this subject.

When we become indignant to how some run contrary to how we may choose to participate in society, well then we begin to loose our footing on that slippery slope. 

Muslims and Jews historically haven't seen things eye to eye, although both believing in the God of Abraham have followed the Mosaic Law in tallying retributions as in; "An eye for an eye". 

Catholics and Protestants in Ireland fought a bloody civil war believing both had God on their side.

So in summarizing this verbose desertion, some folks quite simply don't believe that a woman has the right of ownership to their life or to take the life of the unborn. As they believe that life is a gift from God.

Job 1:21: "And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.

We have many life choices that can include surgeries, doctors, risks, recovery time, which may not be ideal for a mother of three children but, an obstinate posture against abstinence as at least one of those that could also save her life seems to escape recognition.

Life is full of hard choices and easy ones as well...I'm sure that most of us just hope that we'll have a recognizable image on that Cosmic I.D. Card that can authenticate the weight of our soul, when and if we make it to the gate! Oh and yes,... I do realize that some don't believe that the gate swings both ways!

  In closing; I wonder why is it that Universal Life Church's articles never seem to have an author...hum?

Chris Coulson

We as people no matter what religion have the right to medical care no mater what the religion the hospital or doctor is. When doctors and hospitals start denying people medical care just because it goes against the doctors or hospitals religion then I think we need to stand up and say enough and take legal action. I believe that if doctors refuse medial treatment because of religion then it goes against the oath they take when they become a doctor to treat people without prejudice.

Rev. Hoagie

Your anti Christian and even more anti Catholic bigotry is showing. And it ain't pretty. If one does not agree with Catholic doctrine as it applies to medicine I suggest they go to non Catholic doctors and hospitals. At last count there were 133,000 of the former and 1,400 of the latter.

Aside the prominent availability of alternative professional help who are these people and you to decide what part of a Christian's beliefs are acceptable? You also have no right to force a doctor, nurse or anyone else to labor for you, that's called slavery. I realize that in the modern world you little cupcakes can't stand seeing anyone who refuses to knuckle under to your leftist world view of forcing others to do what you desire but that's too bad, it's the price of Freedom. If these issues are so important to you whining children than start your own hospitals to provide. After all that's what Catholics did. But you have no right telling the people who provide these services how to run them. The lack of gratitude from you leftists is legion.

AS Rick stated: "This is only about certain groups trying to force other groups to give up their beliefs." and I'd like to add : Their Freedom.

Rick

HAHAHAHAHA Oh, come on!!!! None of these people was smart enough to walk down the street to another hospital? You can't say that this in any way affected the outcome of ANYTHING!! If you want your tubes tied or the morning after pill, you can get those things virtually anywhere... This is a NON-topic. People need to quit whining about not getting what they want at EVERY single location. What's next? The atrocity of not being able to buy a Cadillac at a Toyota dealership?? This is only about certain groups trying to force other groups to give up their beliefs.