Robert Miller has operated his Wiccan prison ministry for some twenty years unimpeded by the state of Kansas... until now.
Over the past two decades, Moonshadow Coven has offered religious support to the incarcerated, sending them correspondence, religious tracts, and icons through the mail without issue.
All told, Miller says he was looking after the spiritual health of nearly 50 Kansas inmates when he began receiving notices in the mail that correspondence to his flock was being censored by the Kansas Department of Corrections (KDOC).
After appealing the decision, Miller was shocked to hear in a response from state prison officials that his messages were now being classified as a “threat to institutional safety, order or security.”
In an area of the country where Christianity is by far the dominant religion, Moonshadow Coven provided an important alternative option for inmates holding pagan or Wiccan beliefs who sought spiritual support.
Miller is alleging that his ministry is being discriminated against due to bias against its belief system and spiritual messages.
Is this a literal witch hunt?
A War on Wicca?
Miller explains that the Wiccan faith is often perceived to be some sort of Satanic worship, when the reality is much different.
“We follow the seasons and we revere God in duality as god and goddess. We don’t believe in Satan at all,” he explains. “We believe that people do occasionally make mistakes and do stupid or bad things. And that’s why we have religion to try and point people in the right direction.”
“It feels like KDOC has declared war on me and on our religious organization,” Miller says. “We feel religious freedom is meant for all religions (but) apparently this is not the case with KDOC. As a religious advisor, it seems basic constitutional rights are being trampled on.”
A representative from the corrections department explained that they don’t see it that way.
“The (KDOC) makes every effort to support residents’ rights to practice their religion,” said Randall Bowman, the executive director of public affairs at KDOC in a short statement. “The safety and security steps implemented by the KDOC regarding this organization do not infringe upon that right.”
Critics say this answer is vague and unsatisfactory. They point out that Christian prison ministries continue to operate unimpeded, while a minority religion faces censorship.
The KDOC has reportedly failed to provide any supporting evidence for its claim that Moodshadow's correspondence threatens safety or security.
“We have been stonewalled and our students have been cut off with no explanation,” Miller insists.
No Stamp of Approval
While the details of the decision remain murky, some critics have speculated that the censorship is retaliatory.
Outside of correspondence with attorneys, mail in the Kansas penal system is scanned, read, and digitized by prison officials.
Miller reportedly told the KDOC that he believes the scanning of some of his religious tracts constitutes a copyright violation. In response, KDOC told him that the best way to stop this perceived copyright violation was for Miller to stop sending mail to their prisons.
Shortly thereafter, the censorship letters began rolling in.
Regardless of the reason, Miller says he just wants to help the spiritual growth of Kansas prisoners. But for now, anyway, it appears Wiccan inmates in the Kansas prison system will be on their own.
What do you make of this report?
Does a Wiccan prison ministry pose a legitimate threat to safety, or is that just an excuse for religious discrimination against a minority faith?
126 comments
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Katelynne Shouse
There's no greater hate than Christian "Love"........Christianity strikes again!
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
Christianity is the religion of oppression.
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ServantOfJudgement
And your title identifies you as a Christian Rev Mike Eggleston. Many here that despise Christianity claim themselves as one in their name.
Isn't that odd?-
Rev. Mike Eggleston
My title does not identify me as a christian, it identifies me as an ordained minister.
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Pink Clover
The last few years has brought a lot of people that think this site is about Christianity and leading the Christian church. Here is a reminder for those that don't understand what ULC is:
The Universal Life Church Monastery (ULC) is a non-denominational, non-profit religious organization famous worldwide for its provision of free, legal ordinations to its vast membership over the internet. The ULC, recognizing the importance of maintaining open hearts and minds, embraces any individual, no matter their spiritual background, who wishes to become a member of this family of faith. Since its founding, the Universal Life Church has ordained more than 20 million ministers.
The ULC has also become renowned for its role as a champion of religious freedom, social justice, and spiritual expression. While the Universal Life Church Monastery has become a global leader in these fields, it largely attributes that status to the commitment and competence of the millions of empowered ministers brought together in a world tent of togetherness.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Timely and appropriate!
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Amy Louise Hiatt
"The ULC, recognizing the importance of maintaining open hearts and minds, embraces any individual..." Every single time I read the comment section, the majority of the comments are bashing Christianity. Maybe they should change the wording to "embraces any individual, except Christians". If anyone dares to leave a comment that mentions their personal beliefs, regarding being a Christian, the "open hearted" people on this site attack them. All these commenters need to look inward and see that they're doing exactly what they accuse Christians of doing.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
You need to read the comments from Christians more closely.
There are some empathetic, considerate, open-hearted Christians here, but they are the exception. Christians as a general rule devotedly practice their 'mission' of 'spreading the gospel', manifests in an attitude of judgement, condescension, and outright arrogance.
What you see is the natural reaction to this. Christians in general honestly believe they own the entire universe and everyone in it - and the time is long past for someone to let them know that NO THEY DON'T.
Sorry if this offends you, but you know how it is these days - everybody's so easily offended that it seems you can't say anything.
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Pastor George Day
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson,
I thought it was radical Islamists that fitted your job description!
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
Are you familar with the doctrine of "Do unto others as you would be done unto"? People here are simply treating Christians as Christians treat others. What you call Christian bashing is actually showing respect for Christians by complying with their implied request in accordance with that doctrine.
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Pastor George Day
Rev. Mike Eggleston,
Interesting you quote the golden rule... that's a Christian doctrine too.
Maybe you need to investigate the life of some Christians like Mother Teresa or Martin Luther King and see that the quietest ones are those who help others in the Church.
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Pastor George Day
Amy Louise Hiatt,
Very well spot on!
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Pastor George Day
Pink Clover,
You seem to lack historic knowledge that Universalism is indeed a liberal expression of a branch of Christianity that embraces acceptance of all established beliefs as a path to God.
That is a fact, which explains why universalist churches still make use of Christian terminology.
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Tracie Lynn Alexis
We are not here to judge... that is not our job. Your name suggests otherwise my friend... does being "THE POT" make one feel better? We are here to experience life and to create for we are "Gods self expression through our individuality" !!!
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Dr Rohn
“God’s self expression through our individuality” Nice! I feel that we are the essence of the truth, positive energy, commonly referred to as Spirit, having a physical experience. GOD, God; Governor Organizer, Destroyer. We are part of and are ALL. As we gain wisdom we include that wisdom in ALL. When the need arises, we tap into the collective wisdom of ALL. Quid pro Quo! Titles, like every other word created by humankind, are interpretative forms of communication. Communication is three sided; what we say, what we mean to say, what is heard. Thank you for your response.
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Pastor George Day
ServantOfJudgement,
Well, you are cleverly pointing that out. Last time I did I got a lecture on UKC and its charter - which is nonsense because I double checked with the moderators here and they do not charter our churches where we minister. We are ministers of ULC, but our churches are not chartered by ULC.
I got chartered by WMEK. https://theologyofthebody.webador.co.uk/tob-synagogue
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I think most Christians would rather fee guilty than loving. There's no such thing as a non-guilty Christian. They thrive on having things to ask Jesus to forgive them for. And since they know he forgives them they feel free to do it again, and keep feeling guilty for missing the mark, which supposedly makes them good Christians, who know they are, and can only ever be, sinners.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Just ask any Christian: What gives Jesus his validity as their savior? Because he suffered and died for us on the cross. This makes it crystal clear - suffering is authority! And who suffered most? Jesus! - That's why he's the King!
Still don't believe suffering is authority? Ask any Catholic mom.
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Lionheart
Did you read all about that suffering in a book somewhere, Sir Kenneth? I wonder how much of it was true, being as no one witnessed anything they wrote about decades later?🤔
🦁❤️
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Pastor George Day
Carl Bernard Elfstrom,
Your caricature of what we call beautiful exchange isn't funny at all.
We know very well that we are sinners, because we have inherited the condition of Adam. But, unlike angelic beings, we have been granted the ability to repent, thanks to the fact that Yeshua took our place of condemnation and eternal separation from God - which, he himself being God, is a mystery.
Many Christians struggle with guilt and shame, but the right thing is to help them understand that there is a process of purification or improvement as we repent and try to do better, thanks to free grace.
Righteousness is imputed to us until we reach the state of perfection.
I suggest you do your homework before ranting meaningless caricatures on Christian theology.
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Rev. Miche'al Yosef Dixon
First I must clarify they are not targeting MoonShadow Covenant "just" because they aren't "christian". I'm from Louisiana/Mississippi area so I can Not say Kansas still has a Bible up their butts or not. But as a police officer for two years, correction officer for 6 years and prisoner for 10 & half years in this area I tell you the government is against ANY religion that would rehabilitate prisoners. I was trying to establish rehabilitation programs in prison and was told straight up before being beaten and thrown in a cell. "We don't want them rehabilitated they won't come back and we'll be out of a job." Warden Pine prairie correction center. The two I was allowed programs at DOC said no religion whatsoever. Many prisons blocked outside ministers of any faith (christian, Muslim, Wicca, Satanic, Jewish, ect.). Second, it depends on if the prison is government owned or private owned. Private prison systems have protection of freedom to deny anything they feel is a threat (to their money) the definition is too broad to Sue them. Government prisons generally allow access to religion fearing ACLU backlash. But government is getting braver to stomp on any religion's toes lately.
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Dorian Wilson
This is heartbreaking to hear and I am sorry you had that experience. But you are right. The privatize prisons and don’t want to truly rehabilitate the inmates. They want them back because it’s good for their pockets. Our whole system is broken and our so called leaders will never admit this or do what is honestly for the good of the people. Stay strong and keep faith. At the end of the day this is sometimes the only thing that keeps me going in this world.
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Tracie Lynn Alexis
It breaks my heart this whole ordeal... Unfortunally we have become a prison nation. Per capita we have more people incarcerated... I was a victim of our prison and judicial system. Being incarcerated for crimes i didn't commit, was i innocent, no... But i did not commit the crimes i was charged with and because im poor the PA told me i was guilty until i could prove myself innocent... are you kidding me... this is a blaintant slap in the face concerning our constitutional rights, not the first. This is happening across the board on social platforms with free speech... i can honestly say their moto is no rehabilitation in incarceration. What people aren't understanding is that this truly is a war, the oldest war between all fear and love, in this duelistic dimension of polarities those are our emotions. Everythingthing else is a feeling ither backed by love or backed by fear. They represent fear and feed off of it. This war is simply about siphening off our bio energetic fields. Its all about souls. They keep people in a state of fear... of course any belief system or religious system that does not back fear is a threat to them... they are not christians. Christians are good people. These are luciferians as is the pope and all of his flock, to bad his flock is unaware. Heres my question we know the problem...how do we find the solution??? Our thought processes need to shift from focusing on the problems. We already know what they are so begin focusing on solutions, proactively so we dont need to be actively trying to resolve *******. My thoughts are mine along but i think there are many that also think this way. Obviously our constitution means dick to them.
Put this in your tool box and play with it...there is only one universal Law and that is Truth. This Law because it was made by the supra-consciousness and created etherically can never ever be changed. We are co-creators and everything we create in this dimension can be undone or changed with one thought. Thank you for your time always with Infinite love and gratitude Minister Tracie
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Dr Rohn
Minister Tracy: are you saying that we create ALL? That we can thereby uncreate?
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Tracie Lynn Alexis
In this third dimension in which we are in as of this moment... Ie. With the three grids around our planet...the gravity grid, the electromagnetic grid and recently the 144 faceted crystal grid. We are co-creators, in this dimension. There are several universal laws and the laws of nature then the laws of man... But there is only "One Law and it is Truth". That is God's One Law that governs all... it was made in the etheric or spiritual/celestial realms, the seven higher realms of Heaven... Meaning it can never be undone. We are created in the image within each and every form burns the essence of the creator, the divine spark. Along with fitra we have the abilities to and do create our realities. The difference is that we've created these realities with in the third dimension not in the seven higher realms of Heaven. So, yes everything that man has created in this third dimension with thought alone can also be undone or changed with one thought alone. I do feel that inorder to understand this to it's fullest we must first be operating from a state of integrity through congruency....does your thought match your word match your deed in action... Also know as the "Great work" in which it is said takes many lifetimes to achieve...
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Dr Rohn
Miche’al Right on! The Prison Industrial Complex. One of the top revenue generators. The resources? The incarceration of more its citizens than many other countries combined. And now 20 states are incarcerating individuals without a new crime’s perpetration. Big Brother is proud!
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Pastor George Day
Miche'al Yosef Dixon,
Thank you for your honest comment.
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Angelic Realms
I disagree with this. If this ministry can help inmatesw to become better people, then why isn't that part of their right to religious freedom? Everyone has a right to believe as they choose so long as it harms none.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Maybe the prison faculty and staff aren't any better than the prisoners (if even as good as many), and don't care anything about rehabilitating them, but are only there to earn a paycheck, by keeping other criminals (the ones unlike themselves, who got caught) in prison, also because they thrive on controlling others. Also, I've known ex-cons who told me they could get anything they wanted in prison, as long as they were able to pay the exorbitant prices the guards charged them. I'm sure not all of the guards are like that, but there definitely are some who are, and would rather have customers who are habitual than rehabilitated, so they'll keep getting caught, and going back to prison.
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Tracie Lynn Alexis
"It is no measure of health to be adjusted to a profoundly sick society" . J.krishnaw Muorti
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Dr Rohn
Paul Harvey once said, “if you want to see the dregs of humanity, go to any prison at shift change.” Well, I put quotation marks but it may be my memory of the statement. Point however is made.
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Pastor Jody S.
Wish I had gone to law school as I originally planned. This is a clear violation of the Constitution. The First Ammendment gurantees one's right to practice one's own Faith, or none. Our country was founded by many people that were refugees from religious persecution.
Whether Government run or private run institutions, there are "deep pockets" either way, just ripe for picking by any Legal Eagle who has passed the State Bar Exam.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Don't worry, Judy. We don't need another attorney around here. We have Daniel Gray, and that's enough.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
More than 'enough'!
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
I'm in favor of anything that can help folks to become a better person who will be a contributing member of society again.
I was a volunteer Heathen Chaplain at a Federal Medium Security Prison in Illinois for a few years. The Head Chaplain and I had a sit down interview before I was certified. We had a good discussion as he looked over the books I would be bringing with me, and he liked that I actively advocated against the Racist Ideology some in Heathenry have.
I met once a month with the men. After the 1st session, a few quit the group when they found I would not feed into their racism. We'd read from the extant old stories and try to find lessons in there to help them become better men. I saw one of them years later at the store where I worked. He had a good job and was a volunteer fireman.
I developed heart trouble and had to give that up. I found a suitable replacement, who became friends with the Head Chaplain.
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Alun Lloyd Palmer
This is blatant discrimination and a violation of rights. I am an atheist ULC minister but my wife is pagan. It is nonsense to suggest that a pagan prison ministry is a threat.
As for the Christian images of Satan, these were originally generated by Christian churches to malign Herne the Hunter, although Herne is not red and is not evil in any way. Just as the early Christians stole pagan holidays like Yule/Saturnalia and Easter, they projected their Satan onto Herne to make people worship their god and not Herne. Even as an atheist I am disgusted they are still pulling this cr*p today.
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Pastor George Day
Alun Lloyd Palmer,
A real atheist is indifferent to the very notion of God. Yet, not only do you take sides, but you even call yourself a 'minister,' somehow referring to some sort of 'religious' system of your own.
Interesting indeed. It confirms the biblical message that human wisdom in the last days is pure nonsense!
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William Waugh
Not 100% certain what "censured" means in this context but any curtailing of established religious activity is a violation of thier civil rights. ........dont sulk out the door defeated as soon as they come out the gate. Fight these %astards; all the way to the supreme court. They got nothing!!
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Warren Calvin Wall
Open your wallet sir. Fighting lawsuits up to the Supreme Court is EXPENSIVE! It's easy to tell people that but, it's damned hard to finance it. The legal fees are untenable unless you have very deep pockets.
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TheSound.com
The Wiccan path is about a love of nature. Satan is not a part of it at all. If we had more love of nature and lived more in harmony with nature, we would not have such a threat created by climate change because we would live more in balance with natural forces. Having a love of nature is not exclusionary and works well with other religious beliefs.
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Tracie Lynn Alexis
Climate change?!?!? There would be no issue with climate change if they would just stop putting heavey metals in our atmosphere. There attemt at controlling the weather is turning us into a microwave. I have absolute faith that Gaia, sophia, mother, Goddess, the consciousness of our planet will set things right. Will we see it, maybe. Will we survive it, doubtfully.
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Dorothy Hawkins
My faith tradition from birth was a wholly universal catholic faith - catholic, with a small "c". Small "c" catholicism reflects the fact that all people of all faith traditions stem from one universal human belief in some form of "higher being(s)". Wiccan beliefs are encompassed within that matrix, and have informed our knowledge of honoring the seasons & the natural flow of evolving life on this ball of dirt we call Earth. In this writer's view, the Wiccan faith in that setting is being eradicated through the foggy eyesight of small-minded individuals, who are weaving too much of their personal religious beliefs into their very PUBLIC workspace; they are wielding a power they don't exercise with justice or fairness to our freedom of religion stance in the United States.
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Amber Fry
It was only a matter of time. The signs have been building in the last decade give or take. Christian Nationalism is on the rise and anyone else is going to end up targeted for it.
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Nicholas J Page
So Wiccan s are being persecuted now .They follow the 4 seasons and god what is wrong with that religion .Sounds like discrimination to me and if its what the inmates want and their not Satan worshippers then let them follow thrir true calling
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
Why discriminate against Satanists? All religions should be granted equal standing.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
And according to the ULC "We are all children of the same universe". I agree wholeheartedly with that. I bet Nicholas Page doesn't know that some of our good fellow ULC ministers are Satanists.
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Pastor George Day
Rev. Mike Eggleston,
What are the moral ethics of Satanism and what are they based on?
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Robert Gagnon
From personal prison experience in Florida I can tell you why they would do it in this state. First and foremost Southern Baptists rule in the Florida prison system. Catholic services have a hard time getting in at all and are cancelled for various reasons or just made too inconvenient. When the Muslim movement was allowed it was just the Koran and small groups that worshiped together with no outsiders let in under any circumstances. Nothing is ever supposed to enter the institution without being approved first in a package permit. If it's not on the list you can write in an item but that doesn't mean it gets approved. Any religious item at all would have to get past the Baptist preacher's approval. If not approved it is contraband and can be confiscated. Seeing as how Wicca has special days and nighttime high holidays they could be declared a security risk since no gatherings outside secured buildings would be allowed after dark. Rather than pay for court challenges or the expense of extra personnel to facilitate outdoor worship it's easier to declare it a security risk. And prison security over rides any other issue. It's prison, you have no rights that are not given.
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Tracie Lynn Alexis
Thats right. One of the major reasons why were a prison nation. Once stripped of those rights, unless you got some serious cash you never get them back. Leaving you a citizen with no constitutional rights. Sad state of affairs. This is not our Fathers Nation anymore.
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Pastor George Day
Robert Gagnon,
Very good point!
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Keith Graham Ainsworth
I don't think that christianty is the problem here, it's the 'christians'. Christ would welcome the rehabilitation and instruction that the prisoners should be receiving in order to be rehabilitated, no matter the philosophy the instruction is based on.
Christianity in the US seems to be taking the absolute wrong path
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Donna Tregear
I agree. By all accounts, Jesus Christ was one of the most tolerant, accepting and non-judgmental persons to ever walk this earth. For any Christian, to be intolerant, judgmental and unaccepting is pure hypocrisy! And it boggles my mind to know how many of them have no idea that the roots of Christianity are based in Paganism. What scares me, is that these subtle acts towards Wicca / Paganism, etc. could be the beginning of something far worse!
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Pastor George Day
Donna Tregear,
Was Jesus 'tolerant' when he beat up the money changers at the Temple or when he shouted at the Pharisees calling them white sepulchers? And what exactly are the Pagan foundations of Christianity? Can you name them?
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Theresa C. Marquess
A prison ministry, regardless of its denomination is a valid service for those who are incarcerated. We all worship the same God in the final analysis. To keep the prisoners from worshiping their denomination is a violation of their 1st Amendment rights. My late husband served as a prison ministry officiant for years and served all denominations under his umbrella. We still have religious freedom...don't rob those few who differ in their thoughts and hearts from you of their religious freedom.
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JaZe
The hand of inquisition has reappeared 🗡 People live in fear these days, always some issue is being used to create fear!
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Tracy Jean Davis
I am having a similar experience where I go into a prison in Arkansas with my yoga program that was put in place by a lawsuit from an inmate. Since 2018 no problems. Now- problems since returning from covid lockdown. Denials of getting into class, unanswered requests, etc.. No problems with the Christian programs at all. Seems like a major control issue and it is very disheartening. I doubt Jesus would like it.
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Pastor George Day
Tracy Jean Davis,
You doubt the founder of Christianity would like promotion of himself and his religion! What absurdity!
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Rev Ned
There is nothing, IMHO, as hateful as a “born again evangelical Christian”.
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Pastor George Day
Rev Ned,
BRAVO!
Finally someone talking some sense here!
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Daniel Gray
He should be offended and he should file a legal challenge. This is clearly a violation of the prisoners 1st Amendment rights
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Sheila May Bruce
Wicca is a loving and caring practice They deserve all rights as all others
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David George Promis
When is a “religion” not about controlling the masses? Moses knew he had to convince his fellow escapees from Egypt to follow some form of rules and procedures to prevent Chaos. Most Religions are based on the controlling factor of fear that one will be tormented 😫 after death if certain adherences are not followed….which is counterintuitive to the idea of death! One is dead so what is the torture about if all is over? If it’s over then who is supposed to be learning from this punishment? “Cause no intentional harm to yourself or anyone else”…the Bible in a nut 🥜 shell!
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Karen J Wolff-Kemi
The comments towards Christianity.... I am assuming the comments written reflect at least 1 bad experience with a Christian. This makes my heart and mind sick for the people that have had these experiences. Any thinking person would know that people disappoint all the time. I feel sad that Jesus was not represented in His fullness to you.
Maybe the brand of Christianity shown to you was false. Give it another chance. Find a Bible and try it again. Read the book of John and see how loving Jesus was. Concentrate on Jesus and how He behaved. People in ALL religions will fail. The only reason hypocrites are given a pass in Wiccan is because the moral code is so low and the prize is soooo easy to attain.
Romans 8:6 says that a mind full of the flesh (self, carnal) is death but a mind full of the Spirit (God/Jesus/Spirit) is life and peace.
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Martin L Stigleman
Wow...You seriously want to claim that people should "Give it another chance" and "see how loving Jesus was" while at the same time making a passive/aggressive attack on another religion that you obviously know NOTHING about? "The only reason hypocrites are given a pass in Wiccan is because the moral code is so low and the prize is soooo easy to attain."? REALLY? So, someone is a "hypocrite" because they don't believe the same as you do? How about you learn something about a subject before you speak.
Christians tend to do whatever they want, and then go to Church and say "Oh, I did bad, but Jesus loves me so I'm forgiven"...and then they spend the next week doing it all over again without any consequences. TRUE Wiccans who do something bad feel the stain on their soul FOREVER. There's no "forgiveness" from some higher power, and there's no blaming some imaginary evil creature, because the one responsible for your actions is YOU. If you want forgiveness, then YOU have to actually atone for it. If you do it again, then YOU are held responsible for what you have done. There is also the "Three fold rule"...what you do returns to you, three times worse. If you harm someone, then you are going to be harmed WORSE. If you steal from someone, then you can expect your own finances to suffer severely.
You think Wiccans "get a pass"? How many "Good Christians" have thrown their children out of the house because they followed a Pagan belief? Happened to me! I walked 17 miles down a country road in a blizzard and slept under a pine tree at age 14 because my "Christian" step father threw me out. I spent over a year with my mother refusing to see me because she found my alter tools in a locked footlocker that she smashed to find out what was in it. How many people have been denied any type of public assistance because of their Pagan beliefs? I'm one! I stood and watched 2 young, healthy "Christian" teens get a $400 check from the Salvation Army so they could pay their rent in time to go play basketball, and then they refused to help me with a $20 prescription for meds that I needed for a chronic health condition. I was refused entry to a shelter in early February at a local Church because I was wearing a pentacle necklace.
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
There is nothing so hateful as "Christian love". :(
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ServantOfJudgement
Eggleston, That's a statement of equality and inclusion putting Christianity on its own unique plane. It's a true statement. A christians hate is quite low with none other to compare against.
Here's another true statement: no hate on earth is greater that woke ideology and all anti Christian philosophies.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Aww, now don't be like that SOJ. It sounds like you are looking to perform a miracle but are only succeeding at turning water into sour grapes.
Pray tell - what exactly do you find so hateful about "Woke ideology"?
I know what Fox News says, but I know you have your own mind and your own view, so I'd like to hear that.
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Minister Raymond Butterworth
Martin,
I believe Karen was saying that a hypocrite claiming Christian faith is immediately addressed by many persons whereas a hypocrite claiming another belief may not draw the ire of those who see it. She wasn't saying all Wiccans are hypocrites.
Your story is an interesting one i must say. Before I put much empathy into either side of it i would need to hear both sides. One thing puzzles me for certain, why would you go to the Christians to ask them to shelter you wearing a pentagram necklace? While I believe they should have let you in, i can see where they were coming from.
There a many who profess Christianity, and many of those who believe they are right who will be very sad on judgement day. Those who sin the same sins week after week and ask forgiveness on Sunday will be among them.
I urge you and everyone else who has had a bad experience with false or hypocritical Christians to give God the chance that he gave us all when he sent his son to sacrifice himself to pay for our sins, that we may live under the grace of God. Don't let bad or misguided persons persuade you. In the end we will each stand ALONE to account for what we have or have not done. The choice is yours.
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Pastor George Day
Martin L Stigleman,
You really brought all that to yourself!
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Minister Raymond Butterworth
Karen,
Well said. Keep your faith strong and fresh.
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Pastor George Day
Karen J Wolff-Kemi,
Very kindly stated!
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Minister Raymond Butterworth
As a Christian, I fully disagree with wicca and all other pagan beliefs. But I recognize the importance of allowing persons to choose to believe what they want to. I have a rudimentary understanding of wicca and tho i find it offensive to God, i see nothing that would pose any threat to security. This in my perception is a sad attempt by some prison officials to trample the first amendment. The ability to freely choose our spiritual path is one of the most important things we have. According to my understanding of the Bible, even God supports each persons right to choose.
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Tracie Lynn Alexis
How do you find it offensive to God? Majority of Pagan beliefs is Earth based and follow Gods Universal Laws of Nature. You risk the point of becoming hypocritical because you stated that God supports each persons right to choose. I strongly feel that you are intertwining your beliefs with what God would or would not believe. God is all Loving. Period. God does not judge! God would not bless us with the gift of free will and then turn around and cast judgement upon us... that is totally hypocritical, is it not? God made us in his image and likeness therefore it is NOT our job to judge either. God put in place universal laws for that purpose. God just want us to create through be-ing for we are Gods Self expression through our individuality. Please forget what you think you know and open yourself to become the limitless be-ing that you are meant to be...Free and Sovereign ... this of course is my discernment and mine alone and I wish you nothing less than infinite love and gratitude always for I AM a technician of the Sacred and a servant of the Creator for all of Creation.
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Minister Raymond Butterworth
Tracie,
Question: have you read the Bible? It states that "those who are not with me are against me". This was said by Jesus. If you'd like i would be happy to list several references to this. Also, if you read the 10 commandments, the first one says "thou shall have no other Gods before me". So in answer to one question, i find all religious beliefs void of The Holy Trinity to be offensive to God. According to the Bible there is only one path to salvation and that is through Jesus. Of course God judges us, only God. According to the gospel there must be a judgment to hold us responsible for the wrongs we've done in our lives. You are right that it is not for us to judge. In the beginning with adam and eve, there was a tree of knowledge of good and evil. They were instructed not to eat from this tree. The choice was theirs as was the consequences. There is good and evil in the world. God wants us to choose Him. We have free will in life to make your own decisions. If you make the wrong choice in the world you have to be judged in a court of law. Its not so difficult to understand. God is a loving God, and a righteous God, but He does not love sin nor does He look upon it.
I hope you a wonderful life and you prosper in all you do. I pray you guidance in the pathways of life.
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Pastor George Day
Tracie Lynn Alexis,
Interesting you state I AM!
Like Jesus, you are claiming God's name. Yet, you are unable to walk on water, let alone rise on the third day!
That is blasphemy! May God forgive you :-)
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Christianity is a control system.
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Robert Edward Szekely
The problem may lie with claiming copyright infringement for religious tracts. If they're not being resold for profit, I (personally) wouldn't have been one to make an issue of it.
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Merlin
Publicly funded facilities must not use any non-secular treatments.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I sometimes think they must have kept Nicholas Page in the dungeon of Windsor Castle for too many years, and he has a lot of catching up to do.
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XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Well since the prison hasn't given any reason for their action with any meat on the bone, so to speak, it's hard for any of us to make an intelligent decision regarding this case. "Poses a threat to the facility" without explaining why sounds to me like a "cause I said so" response in my opinion.
So far as the copyright issue, that's ridiculous. The Gentleman is being uncooperative in my opinion. Firstly, he is voluntarily sending his literature to a facility where he knows that for security reasons, it is going to be scanned and forwarded to the inmate. That is implied consent. That is the way all institutions handle incoming mail now. Heck, anyone could claim copyright infringement if that was the case. Suppose I wrote a love poem to my wife in prison, can I then sue the state for copyright infringement because they copied my poem and gave it to my wife? I don't think so. The information he's sending is being provided to the inmate he sent it to. Now if the prison was making copies and selling it to a publisher or using it for their own use, such as on their website or in their publications or advertisements, that'd be different, but that's not the case here.
Secondly, we have to consider is the liability to the prison. Anyone can sue over anything. If a prison has to defend 1,000 frivolous lawsuits over copyright infringement every year, that's going to cost the already cash handicapped prison (the taxpayer...you and me) a lot of money.
I agree with the prison on this one. If you don't want your material copied, if you don't like the established and state-approved mail policy, then don't send it to the inmate. We don't do point-to-point mail in any prison facility anymore in the U.S. All mail is scanned and a copy provided to the inmate. It's been that way for a decade in most facilities due to contraband smuggling.
This has nothing to do with "religious freedom". The gentleman doesn't like the rules and he wants special treatment and he's playing the religious freedom card trying to get it. The fact is he is free to promote his religion and send mail to his students in prison, but he has to follow the rules that everyone else who sends mail to the prison has to follow.
I'm guessing here but I assume the Jewish scholars and the Christian scholars and the Buddhist scholars and the Native American scholars and the Atheist scholars and the Sikhism scholars and the Cao Dai scholars and the Hindu scholars and the Taoist scholars and the Shinto scholars all send their students reading material, and they all permit their copyrighted material to be scanned and forwarded to the inmate in accordance with prison procedures. Except for this one guy. He wants special treatment.
And in the end he'll lose in court because just like the freedom of speech and the freedom to own a gun, rights may not be denied but they may be regulated. One of the most misunderstood ideas in our Country is that no law an be applied to a religion, and that is false. When a church builds a building, that building has to be inspected and has to meet the building code just like any other building built in that jurisdiction. When a church wants to have a daycare center, they have to meet the requirements set by the state of a daycare center just like the for-profit commercial day care center up the street. If a church wants to have a kitchen to feed the poor, they have to meet the county health code regulations just like the restaurant up the street. If a church wants to have an activity bus they have to have insurance and tags and have it inspected and drive on the road by the same rules as every other vehicle on the road. Churches (and religion) are not exempt from the law or the rules. The test is that any law or rule that regulates a right has to be reasonable, as interpreted by the court. Acid, cocaine, and especially nowadays fentanyl can be smuggled into a facility on paper or an envelope laced with the drug. So scanning the mail and providing an exact copy on "safe paper" is a reasonable restriction for a prison, I believe.
The prison wasn't singling this guy out and imposing requirements on him that are different than any other person sending mail to an inmate. Apparently they're just fed up with his BS and don't want to deal with him anymore.
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Martin L Stigleman
"I agree with the prison on this one." Can I ask, what exactly you are agreeing with? All the prison is saying is that the correspondence is a security risk. They have never said (or should I say, they have never ADMITTED) that they are retaliating against the complaint of them copying the letters or pamphlets. They have also not stated if they simply feel his religious teaching isn't allowed because it isn't Christian.
"The fact is he is free to promote his religion and send mail to his students in prison, but he has to follow the rules that everyone else who sends mail to the prison has to follow." Read the story again. The prison is not letting ANYTHING THROUGH. He IS NOT "free to promote his religion" because they are stopping all promotions from going through. He speculates it is retaliation for his complaint, but the prison is using a blanket statement to stop all his mail.
You posted a nice, long explanation of your views...but go back and read the story again. There is nothing to defend the Prison's actions, unless you approve of the fact that this guy isn't promoting a religion they want to allow.
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Tracie Lynn Alexis
Are you kidding me??? You really ought to go and re-read the article again... clearly you are not a rule breaker...even if those rules discriminate. This is a blaintant attempt to push even our prisoners toward a one world religion. Makes sense that they start with the prison systems...they think they at least have controll over that... but its all still an illusion...i think this is the beginning of a slippery slope... wicca being the first of a long list as they systematically try to strip us all of our sovereignty (which means holiness) they do not want us aware... pay attention Instilling rules and fear of breaking them is one of their tactics...please wake up...infinite love and gratitude
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ServantOfJudgement
Mmmhhmmmm
Christians hates this, Christianity hates that, yawn. Blah blah blah. The knee jerk reaction is triggered again. It's predictable, reliable, trustworthy and constant. Yawn, yawn, yawn.
No mention of Christianity except by the wiccan dude saying some people perceive his faith as satanic. Not that the industrial prison said it, some people think that. In some cases it's actually true.
For the silly folk that think satanic worship is harmless since they don't believe in it, read this:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/fbi-discovers-satanic-pedophile-cult-almost-2-years-after-arresting-gun-suspect/ar-AA1hpHat
It's from MSN so the trained parrots don't yell Fox Propaganda! Don't matter what you atheists think, not one bit, not even a hair split in 3. Get wise about your world.
For the wiccan dude, take your claim to the court and let justice prevail.
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Martin L Stigleman
Nice story to use as an attack on a religion you obviously know nothing about. The term "Satanic" is used as a blanket hate attack on almost every non-Christian group that commits any activity not approved of by Christian Groups. Read a bit about the actual Satanic Temple and it's teachings, and you will see that their beliefs are mostly about taking responsibility for your own actions instead of blaming them on some devil under your feet or some invisible man in the sky.
Now, if you really want to compare religious evil, lets look at a few others... Yahweh Ben Yahweh - Head of Nation of Yahweh, convicted for Federal racketeering charges and conspiracy involving 14 murders. Dwight York - Head of Nuwaubianism, convicted in 2004 of multiple RICO, child molestation, and financial reporting charges and sentenced to 135 years in prison. Keith Raniere - The founder of NXIVM, a multi-level marketing company and cult based near Albany, New York. Raniere was convicted of racketeering on the charges of sex trafficking, sexual exploitation of a child, attempted sex trafficking, identity theft, forced labor, conspiracy to alter records, conspiracy of sex trafficking, forced labor, racketeering, and wire fraud. Raniere was sentenced to 120 years in federal prison starting in January 2021. Jeffrey Lundgren - Headed splinter group from Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, executed on October 24, 2006, for multiple murders. Matthew F. Hale - Former leader of Creativity Movement sentenced to a 40-year prison term for soliciting an undercover FBI informant to kill a federal judge.
Not enough? Jim Jones...Charles Manson...all "Christian" religious leaders. Don't use stories about a single religious group as an attack on the entire religion. You will lose that fight.
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Dr Rohn
Damn! I wish I had written this… Definitely well argued, and may I add, we’re talking Wicca here. Likely one of the most common Pagan religions. I’ve known many and have attended numerous rites. Not once asked to drink blood or sacrifice a child or virgin ( although today it’s hard to find a virgin whose not a child ). Sorry, I’m deep practitioner of sarcasm and levity.
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Dr Rohn
You ask, “ Does a Wiccan prison ministry pose a legitimate threat to safety, or is that just an excuse for religious discrimination against a minority faith?” My answer, “All ‘religions’ in a prison setting pose a certain degree of “threat to safety”. I’ll explain that shortly, but first, let’s address the true elephant in the jury box. Prisons, although now calling themselves “corrections facilities” are punishment focused and control is the paramount mindset of the administration and employees. Anything that can be done to show control while impressing examples of the lack of control by those residents of the facilities, is standard practice and procedure. To create yet another obstacle, thereby taking control from those who wish to practice a religion not otherwise sanctioned by the administration or staff, is commonplace. The “justification” is normally “safety.” We all know otherwise! After, much more work, dedication to research and court filings, this obstacle will make way for another, but meanwhile it’s another challenge for those practitioners to overcome . Answer to part one of the question ; It’s not a discrimination against anyone although that is the legal challenge argument, I wish them speed in the upcoming battle. Now, for those who are still reading. Part two of the question. Yes, ALL religions are a threat to the safety (not of the facilities, but) to the population of them. Many “religious inmates” are targeted by others as “hiding behind God” “Jesus freaks” or perceived as weak and vulnerable. This often creates an atmosphere of violence, extortion, and other victimizations. Religion is also an important coping mechanism and affords some comfort in a time easily related to being in hell, for some, ergo all religions, that don’t mandate violence in everyday lives (I’ll not go into the multitude of recorded religious ways) should be tolerated and allowed. The accoutrements needed to engage in that religion should likewise be allowed, given that they don’t propose a “legitimate” threat. Prisons hold all the power over the individuals within their razor topped fences and walls. Oppression, Repression, Control are the major tools used by prisons to punish and dehumanize their charges. America incarcerates more of its citizens than any other country, many combined. The Prison Industrial Complex is real. This major money (cash cow) is not going away. The apathy of the American people dictates just how much abuse the governments can impose upon those incarcerated. PS: didn’t Hitler profess doing much of what he did for god?
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
You need to read your propaganda closer SOJ.
That's a repost, through MSN, from that zenith of journalistic integrity 'The Daily Caller'.
Of course I know how you "know nothing about any media", so you can read about The Daily Caller here:
https://www.allsides.com/news-source/daily-caller
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ServantOfJudgement
The FBI uncovered it dude, I just picked a lefty news outlet that carried it. Dig yourself, you'll see it's true. I've seen a bowling ball make it's way it out of the gutter before but it's mighty rare. Once it's in, it usually stays that way. No matter what I say it's always propaganda with you. Always. What a bummer gutter to be in. Still, if you will it, you can hop right out. It's easy. Ignore these dangers at your own peril.
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ServantOfJudgement
I'm just trying to help you and people you love stay safe Kenneth, not covert you or nothing. Just want you aware of what's out there man, that's all.
Here's the report from FBI. Do with it what you will.
https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2023/PSA230912#fn3
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Thank you for giving me the facts SOJ.
Now please re-read Martin L Stigleman's reply and take it to heart.
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ServantOfJudgement
Now I know what Jesus meant when he said not to cast pearls before swine. They just grind the words of wisdom into their own mud. That's a wise dude right there, Jesus is.
I recommend setting up dates with some nice satanists and your kids and grandkids. They're very friendly I hear.
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Dr Rohn
I have met with Satanists, I’ve met with Christians. I’ve met some very evil people. Some people are evil, no matter the venue they choose to attend. “Nice” is nice, and usually very friendly people, whether a “nice” satanist or “nice” milkman. Just another passin’ thought
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
I'd rather my children associated with Satanists than with Christians. I'm confident they'd be safe with Satanists.
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Pastor George Day
Rev. Mike Eggleston,
You call yourself a reverend?
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
I'm sorry you feel that way SOJ, but I also fail to understand your point.
Should I condemn all Satanists just because their God has horns, whereas your God has a halo?
Or is there some other criteria of Godding other than preferred headwear I am missing? It seems to me what a God does is much more important than that, and you have pointed out, and rightfully so, that there are some bad actors who work in Satan's name - but I happen to remember there were quite a few centuries where Christians tortured heretics and burned witches, and even today Christians think they own all women of child-bearing age, working zealously to dictate their reproductive choice - and what's all this about dictating what genders are real and which aren't, and who can be what and who can't?
Seems to me Satanists have a LOT of catching up to do - if Christians ever let up.
Now - you were saying something about wisdom?
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Pastor George Day
Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson,
Abortion is murder. Killing of animal is also murder.
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Tracie Lynn Alexis
It is so sad to see so many attacking each other because of this... wheres the solution? What is the solution? I know of only one way to start to finding a solution... Truth!!! Truth to self about self 100%of the time... no one can ever be forgiven or forgive because everyone is lying to themselves about something or another. That means that any forgiveness given is bs ... all thats being forgiven is a lie...
Newsflash...we do not need to ask for forgiveness!!! God is not a hypocrite like some on this comment section. God does not make mistakes. God has given us the precious gift of free will... then turn around and say we have to ask for forgiveness, ludicrous i say.
Everybodies truth is their truth and none are wrong. That is of course only true if you are responsible and accountable for your actions truthfully. That is why the one universal law that can never be changed (made ethically by God) is Truth. Infinite love and gratitude A Technician of the Sacred A Servent of the Creator for All of Creation
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Pastor George Day
Tracie Lynn Alexis,
Here's my truth - and remember, you cannot argue MY truth:
The sky is green and the glass is blue!
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Daniel Earl Genson III
I have some personal insight on this i recently was released from El Dorado prison we had tablets in there and were able to view a banned list with reasons as to why they were banned some of the pagan books were banned simply for containing spells. Almost anytime a new book on wicca is introduced to the prison we have to jump through hoops to have them overturn their ban on the book its religious suppression and just one of many ilegal things that kdoc does but getting support for prisoners is difficult especially when they are of a misunderstood religion
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Curtis W Miller
Is it really censorship? Or, is it that the mail will be scanned and stored and the only way to avoid it is to not send mail? It seems a bit more clarity may be needed before everyone jumps to judgment.
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Dr Rohn
Well, it is censorship. However, the open and review policy is to assure a modicum of safety. To stop inmate targeting from victims and families, to stop plans for escape or other subterfuge. Much scamming is done via the mail, this may be intervened through a cursory inspection of mail. That’s the idea anyway. Scanning, however, is a violation of the very little privacy afforded by correspondence with loved ones or others. This practice has no legitimate purpose, unless an inmate is under legitimate investigation for some illegal activity, then it may be a form of evidence gathering and a prior warrant should be obtained prior to doing so.
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Carol J Kellerman
I don't judge, I don't mock what others believe, we all find truth when the time is right l see many attacks on the Christian faith, however when it comes down to it there is only ONE GOD, He is the one we will all answer to when our time on earth has expired. Our choice to follow HIM is what will determine our eternal life.
Simply do you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? He died for our sins so ALL may be forgiven. He rose again that we may have eternal life in heaven. If so are you working on a daily relationship with him? Are you loving your brothers and sisters as he commanded? He did not give us a list of rules to follow. He is not condemning anyone, we have free will and what we choose to do with it has consequences. Life or death.
I used to be a pretty evil person, but I was introduced to Christ and have witnessed many amazing things in others but mostly the change in me. This happened in 2010 and continues to date. I will never go back nor renounce my faith.
Our Truth is not God's truth. We will always change but God is the one constant.
Jesus loves you and wants to be in your life..
God Bless Rev. Carol.-
Dr Rohn
Carol A nice moment of proselytizing but comes nowhere near addressing the question proposed. Just a passin’ thought.
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Pastor George Day
Carol J Kellerman,
Thank you for your witness! :-)
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John Komorowski
Nailed it.
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Dr Rohn
You ask, “ Does a Wiccan prison ministry pose a legitimate threat to safety, or is that just an excuse for religious discrimination against a minority faith?” My answer, “All ‘religions’ in a prison setting pose a certain degree of “threat to safety”. I’ll explain that shortly, but first, let’s address the true elephant in the jury box. Prisons, although now calling themselves “corrections facilities” are punishment focused and control is the paramount mindset of the administration and employees. Anything that can be done to show control while impressing examples of the lack of control by those residents of the facilities, is standard practice and procedure. To create yet another obstacle, thereby taking control from those who wish to practice a religion not otherwise sanctioned by the administration or staff, is commonplace. The “justification” is normally “safety.” We all know otherwise! After, much more work, dedication to research and court filings, this obstacle will make way for another, but meanwhile it’s another challenge for those practitioners to overcome . Answer to part one of the question ; It’s not a discrimination against anyone although that is the legal challenge argument, I wish them speed in the upcoming battle. Now, for those who are still reading. Part two of the question. Yes, ALL religions are a threat to the safety (not of the facilities, but) to the population of them. Many “religious inmates” are targeted by others as “hiding behind God” “Jesus freaks” or perceived as weak and vulnerable. This often creates an atmosphere of violence, extortion, and other victimizations. Religion is also an important coping mechanism and affords some comfort in a time easily related to being in hell, for some, ergo all religions, that don’t mandate violence in everyday lives (I’ll not go into the multitude of recorded religious ways) should be tolerated and allowed. The accoutrements needed to engage in that religion should likewise be allowed, given that they don’t propose a “legitimate” threat. Prisons hold all the power over the individuals within their razor topped fences and walls. Oppression, Repression, Control are the major tools used by prisons to punish and dehumanize their charges. America incarcerates more of its citizens than any other country, many combined. The Prison Industrial Complex is real. This major money (cash cow) is not going away. The apathy of the American people dictates just how much abuse the governments can impose upon those incarcerated.
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Rebecca L. Zirkle
Too much missing information. Impossible to make an informed comment.
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Tracie Lynn Alexis
We were born with fitra.. .. Every one of us has a choice... Do you follow God's guidance or do you not??? Everything we do or don't do simply comes down to choice...
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Emily J Vank Kam
I agree Christianity was here first do I have to say I am baptized Catholic but I have to say that I do know someone that is in Wiccan and I do not believe in Wiccan, but I do know somebody that is in Wiccan several of them in fact, and I really am not sure about Wiccan I do know when I've seen it done before and I've honestly had some thing happen to a vehicle that I was in because of it but I have a degree in Christianity is number one here
Christianity poses the threat here, not other belief systems. Just another way for the Christians to try to control people besides their own.
I agree, Lady Joy, with the exception that Christianity does also control their own people, with the psychological blackmailing threats of their imaginary Hell if they don't toe the line, and pay knee bending homage to their genocidal, and infanticidal, god. But let's pretend he's a god of love. It's amazing that people actually believe this, and will attempt to cloud reality by quoting passages of love from their book, but ignore the rest, or make apologies for him to get him out of trouble, to convince other deluded people its all ok.
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Lionheart,
Can you find in Wicca anyone at the same level as Mother Teresa?
Its irrelevant... because its all a matter of personal perception. Your question then just becomes rude with no point... Does it not?
Tracie Lynn Alexis,
Not really... it is simply factual. But if you are offended by my question, that says more about you than whatever you are trying to read as 'rude' behind my lines.
Just what was her level, Sir George? There are a lot of people that don’t have kind words to say about her.
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Lionheart,
Are you kidding me? Mother Teresa??
Maybe those controlling Christians also think that by depriving religious Wiccans and Pagans of their religion, that the only way they can be religious in prison is to become Christians, it will help persuade them to do so. I really wouldn't be surprised if they were stupid enough to think that.
Carl Bernard Elfstrom,
Last time I checked my local prison, they also had a mosque beside the Roman Catholic and Anglican chapels. So no, it's not just Christians that can worship in prisons, but so-called established religions.
I agree with you Lady Joy and Lionheart. It all boils down to control. Government and religion are supposed to be separated for a reason. This is as bad as them trying to control what we can and can’t do with our bodies. Now they want to restrict how we think and feel? This is literal modern day religious persecution. I am one who follows several Wiccan teachings and I still believe God is my lord and put no other above him. I am more at peace within myself now then I ever and I give thanks to some of the teachings I have learned thru the Wiccan faith.
Dorian Wilson,
This is a rather vague nonsensical statement. How do you deal, then, with the parts of the Bible that condemn what you nowadays call Wicca?
Why should it matter what that book says about earth based religions, Sir George? It's a book, just like other books of other religions written by mankind.
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Lionheart,
I'm sure you know better.
That is most certainly the truth, Christianity along with simple minded folk have continuously triggered not only anger amongst themselves,but have reflected and projected their Hate and anger towards loving beliefs of other humans. We are not all the same,but we do bleed the same,and if our hearts and minds our aligned properly with the divine forces of the universe then we can all heal as a world . Theology and being open minded has to be spoken through others and only through communication can that be done. I do not believe in hate nor do I believe that it is one sect or religion that forces our worlds apart. It is what we believe and what we have in our hearts,because the heart has the most energy field of all the organs and it emits love or it doesn't. Wicca or paganism or any other religion are just subcategories or ubjevts that we live within or around. Love is the only religion and is the only answer now.
Crishna indigo,
So far, I have met more haters of Christianity in this monastery than haters of other religions within Christianity. Again, this is a factual truth based upon my experience, as limited as that can be.
Of course, you know, Kansas is part of the Bible Belt. So, what can you expect? Ignorance has no "Enter Here" door.
See what I mean?
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