Buildings on fire, depiction of modern civil war
Let's hope it doesn't come to this.

As if election season wasn’t already contentious enough, a popular evangelical pastor is now calling for Christians to ‘mobilize’ for a coming civil war.

Rick Joyner, founder of MorningStar Ministries, made the comments during a recent appearance on The Jim Bakker Show. Recalling a dream he apparently believes to be preternatural, Joyner said he saw visions of militias sprouting up “like mushrooms” across the country, backed by God, who will lead the militias to victory in urban warfare against "the tyranny of Marxism."

"We're in time for war. We need to recognize that. We need to mobilize. We need to get ready," Joyner continued. 

"Jesus himself said, 'There's gonna be a time when you need to sell your coat and buy a sword.' Now that was a physical weapon of their day, and we're in that time here. We need to realize that."

As if 2020 couldn’t get any worse, now we’ve apparently got a holy war to look forward to. How did we get here?

Militias in Training

Joyner’s hardly the first evangelical to believe that the Union is heading for splitsville yet again. Last year, Washington State state representative Matt Shea was under fire when his right-wing manifesto and roadmap for literal holy war leaked to the press. In it, Shea envisioned a war between conservative “patriots” and Muslim and Marxist “terrorists”.

Shea even recorded himself training teenage boys and young men in armed combat. One young man in the group, dubbed Team Rugged, described themselves as training “to be effective in Christian warfare.”

Christian Nationalism Surges

One of the most alarming aspects of this behavior is that it's becoming a pattern. These ideas are being promoted by elected officials and popular pastors on platforms watched by millions.

It's the type of disturbing rhetoric that has led fellow faith leaders to warn specifically against the rise of Christian nationalism. History does not cast a positive light on those who undertake violent crusades believing "God to be on their side," they point out.  

Not to mention, the very idea of a Christian-only America bit of a headscratcher. The notion of tying patriotism and being a "true American" to one's chosen faith is completely antithetical to the principles on which America was founded. Some folks slept through civics class, apparently. 

What do you think? Is it possible to live in harmony, despite differences in faith beliefs? How can we choose civility over civil war? 

157 comments

  1. Stephanie A Willey's Avatar Stephanie A Willey

    In Germany way back in the early twentieth century there was a Christian Nationalist movement that utilized civilian militias to help them promote their ideas and ultimately gain control of all of Germany. They called themselves Nazi's and my American father, most of his closest friends and most of my uncles fought and died to put an end to the evil of the German Christian Nationalists, aka Nazi's. So will I, my children and grandchildren be ultimately forced right here in the United States to put a stop to the same inevitable evil that results from Christian Nationalism ?

    1. Paul J. Fumero's Avatar Paul J. Fumero

      We got here because of The Tea Party, Fox News, the Republicans, Right Wing Evangelicals and The Family (cabalistic christian cult trying to push their agenda through political means). Netflix has a Documentary called "The Family" about this satanic cult posing as christians. I recommend you all watch it.

      1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp's Avatar Catherine Ohrin-Greipp

        There are also some excellent books just published as well which not only are eye-opening, but cause a bit of terror at the horror of these people who profess to be Christians but are not. They are American "Christian" White Supremacists and Dr. Robert P. Jones talks about the legacy of this movement in his book, "White Too Long, the Legacy of White Supremacy in Christianity" Another excellent read is "Jesus and John Wayne, how White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation" Sometimes we have to go deeper to gain a clearer understanding of the destructiveness of this movement in our nation.

      2. Jean Bakula's Avatar Jean Bakula

        Thanks, I will watch it. Christians seem to forget this is a secular nation. Republicans got us to where we are so divided today.

      3. Kim Currier's Avatar Kim Currier

        They are all an ABOMINASTION to the CREATOR the profess to love... Jesus in todays standards would be a Liberal,,,,, and most of them, if Jesus walked this EARTH today,, If he tried to seek refugee here,, They would claim he was a middle eastern Terrorist,, or lock him up in an ICE DETENTION CAMP with all the other Brown Christian families seeking asylum here , Praise Be,, they are so lost and do not even know it .

    2. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

      @Stephanie A Willey You need a history lesson. In 1933 when Hitler took power over 99% were Christians. The German Evangelical Christians who fully embraced the Nazi's and were after the creation of the "Reich Church" and supported a "nazified" version of Christianity. (This is something we need to think about in America.)

      While Hitler may have not publicly believed in God there were over 50 assignation attempts on his life. He survived every assassination attempt believing God was protecting Hitler's life. Hitler and his followers believed Hitler was truly doing God's work on Earth including the elimination of the Jews from Europe. How many people so narrowly escape death over 50 times without God's intervention? Many viewed Hitler as the Messiah and worshiped him.

      Take a look at The Führer Oath, Germans were swearing to God.
      (In English) “I swear by God this holy oath, that I will render to Adolf Hitler, Führer of the German Reich and People, Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces, unconditional obedience, and that I am ready, as a brave soldier, to risk my life at any time for this oath.”

      If you and your decedents are all willing to fight a another Nazi type government, you has better start at home here in America by fighting the Protestant Fundamentalist Christians as they are the ones who will create the next Nazi type government claiming God is on their side.

      1. Ilmenheru Terikson's Avatar Ilmenheru Terikson

        Except you are being willfully misleading with the so called facts you are spouting Doug. Yes because most of europe at the time were of one christian faith or another, one can accurately say most of Hitlers supporters had christian faith as their baseline. However Evangelicals of every faction on earth that I know of are believers of the Rapture. Rapture believers are also the type of christian that supports jewish rule of Jerusalem because they believe that is part of the prophecy to bring about said Rapture.

        As such we can also safely say the so called christians, who were part of nationalists groups, just as Ms. Willey said. And within a year of seizing power, all traditional faith practices had been deemed as contrary to the SS parties new occult based corruption and blending of several cultures and faiths including the Crusaders of christianity, the warrior cult of the vikings, and the cult of the military of the romans.

        Germans loyal to Hitler did not describe him as christ like nor a messiah, they described him outright as godlike. That to be in his presence was to be overwhelmed by his piercing blue eyes that could make man and woman alike fall under his powerful charisma and oratory skills. Even Joseph Stalin wrote about Hitler with a tone of awe and reverence, many forget Hitler was basically a pen pal of Stalin and his friend for years before Hitler turned on Russia.

        Virtually every religious figure who did not bend knee and kiss Hitlers ring ended up in the camps. The Pope of the time even kept his tongue, fearing what Hitler would do to all catholics should the Vatican openly condemn the nazi movement.

        Hitler was no friend to any religion except the cult of his personality, just as Drumpf has shown himself to be like in this modern attempt at another Reich.

        And anyone actually studying things would know the primary faction that supports Drumpf is not based in any actual faith. Hell they are defending their new catholic SC pick even as they attack Biden for being a life long devout catholic.

        1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

          @Ilmenheru Terikson Some of the things your have stated are correct but they are in the form of sophisms. It was not the people close to Hitler who considered him as a savior sent by God, but the Nazi party members many of which early on were Evangelicals. The high command of the Wehrmacht were Christians and for the most part despised Hitler. Many of them tried to kill Hitler and when they failed this was the "sign" to the German people and to Hitler he was infarct doing God's work.

          If the pope was keeping his tongue why is in the Vatican after the war aided Nazi ware criminals in escaping to South America? What did the pope have fear in 1946 from the Nazis?

      2. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp's Avatar Catherine Ohrin-Greipp

        Douglas, I do agree with you on content for sure. But, it is disrespectful to address Stephanie in such a snarky manner.

        1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

          @Catherine Ohrin-Greipp Thank you for agreeing with me. I thought I was being polite saying Stephane needs a history lesson. Was not meant to be snarky, mean or disrespectful, just a matter of fact. With the Internet at Stephane's finger tips one has to ask why posted something that was utterly wrong. Who taught her all of that incorrect information?

          1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp's Avatar Catherine Ohrin-Greipp

            Douglas, thank for your response. Sometimes men come out with a condescending comment or mansplaining. I do not think you mean it either, but it does look that way. To tell a woman " You need a history lesson" is condescending, and disrespectful, even if your do not intend to sound that way. How do YOU know what she needs? Words are powerful. We all have our opinions, some based on emotionality, some on partial facts, some on personal experiences or family stories and others on 100% fact which is available to us at the time. White American Christianity is 100% racist and dangerous. Another good read is "Hitler's American Model: The United States and the Making of Nazi Race Law."

            1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

              @Catherine Ohrin-Greipp If a women, man or they make state something which is incorrect and false about history don't you think they should be corrected ad learn the truth so they know and understand the truth? Words are powerful, but lies and spreading false information does far more damage. Do you know if this women is intentionally spreading false information or if she id doing it out of ignorance?

              I have to ask have you studied American History? Are your familiar with Manifest Destiney? Many believe this and American Christianity is what made America Great. Ironic isn't it that White Christian Americans who are racist worship the son of God who is of black or African decent. We know all white European-Americans are really African-European-Americans like I am.

              Don't you want to know the truth? Or do you want to live in a world of lies?

              1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp's Avatar Catherine Ohrin-Greipp

                Have I studied American History? You jest right? I am Native American and Black. You bet I have studied history, especially what wasn't taught in our white washed history books of the time and those only written by Native and Black authors, not white folks as I got older. Why are you going on a tangent about irrelevant items not connected to my request that you not be condescending? We are on the same side but you continue to mansplain to me. I merely asked that you not approach a woman in the manner in which you did. It was also offensive to me. So this is all I will say on this since I am texting to the 4 winds. Peace to you.

              2. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

                No I'm not jesting. I have found many people who say they know all about American history have never even studied it. Kind of like the bible... I know many devote Christians who know next to nothing about the Bible, yet they say they read it all the time. (Dunning-Kruger effect.)

                Interesting you throw "charged" words like mansplain, white washed history books, condescending and you are quick to proclaim you are Native American and Black when we are all God's children. Are you implying you are better than I am? You are sure coming across that way. Every single person on this planet is of African decent. No need to be hostile against the whiles for white washed history books. You do realize it was the African-Europeans, African-Chinese who thought history was important enough to document in writing. One has to ask why the Native Americans didn't do the same?

    3. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

      Um PLEASE check your history, the NAZI's were NOT christian nationalists, they were SOCIALISTS from start to finish. This myth of yours that they were christian nationalists is just that and history is saying you are not telling the truth, not to mention that you got this lie from Think Progress, a well know left wing site that has been discredited more times then swiss cheese has holes.

      1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

        Um, PLEASE check your history. Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord". So, Hitler believed that Nazism was Christian Nationalism and his followers went along with his view, regardless of whether you believe that they were Christian Nationalists or not, the same as the Inquisitors and other murderers and criminals in history thought of themselves, anyway, as "Christians", regardless of anyone's opinion about them. As for the "Socialist" in National Socialist German Workers' Party, that was just for drawing in the suckers and adding to their numbers, who were convinced, as you are, that "Socialist" in the party's name must mean that they are "Socialist" because they couldn't say it if it weren't true, now could they? DUHHH!!! Nobody seriously believes that the Nazi Party was a Socialist party because it advocated none of the programs and principles that Fabian Socialism and other traditional Socialist parties have advocated. Just calling yourself "Socialist", "Christian" or anything else doesn't actually make you that thing!! The proof is in the pudding and actual deeds, not what you say about yourself. Your "thinking" is more full of holes than Swiss cheese!!

        1. Beth Helene Hurewitz's Avatar Beth Helene Hurewitz

          Thank You JDP

          1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

            You are very welcome, Beth Helene Hurewitz!

        2. TarotTerry 's Avatar TarotTerry

          JPD is spot on!

        3. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          Oh really? then explain why he swore allegiance to Thor and the other Germanic Gods of old?

          Seems your cherrypicking didnt help you in the least

          1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

            DG, you want to know why Hitler "swore allegiance to Thor and the other Germanic Gods", if he actually did so, while also invoking the name of the Christian God many times? "Even today I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by stormy enthusiasm, I fell down on my knees and thanked Heaven from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being permitted to live at this time" (Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 2)., www.learnreligions.com/adolf-hitler-on-god-quotes-248193. Hitler's religiosity---he was a Catholic until his death----is often glossed over, but it is critical in understanding his motivation (www.churchandstate.org.uk/2016/06/hitler-the-catholic/). Why do voodoo practitioners in New Orleans and elsewhere practice voodoo, while also claiming to follow the Catholic faith? Why do all Christians everywhere practice de facto Paganism and even Satanism in their sinning thoughts, words, and actions, while also claiming to be "Christians"? Why are YOU!! the way that you are, while also claiming to believe in God and be a "good Christian"? It's because Hitler, the same as all of us, was inconsistent and contradictory in his thoughts, words, and actions, and, especially in that environment of occultism in Nazi Germany, was influenced and manipulated by all of these ideas and went any way that the wind blew, if he thought that it was for his and Nazism's benefit to do so, as he would be led to believe that it was. Why would Hitler be any different than anyone else, in that regard? That doesn't contradict his basic commitment to the Catholic Church, anymore than it does for any other Catholic. You are the one who is cherrypicking by mentioning this one aspect of Hitler's thinking, out of all the rest of his statements of belief in the Christian God and being a Catholic. Hitler also confided to Albert Speer, his Armaments Minister, that he wished that the Ottoman Turks had conquered Vienna in 1683, since Islam would have been much more compatible to the Germans than Christianity. So, why aren't you claiming that that "makes Hitler a Muslim and follower of Allah", too?

            1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

              sigh, please know what you are talking about before you start talking

              https://outlandentertainment.com/reclaiming-norse-mythology-from-the-nazis-by-ian-stuart-sharpe/

              https://crosssection.gns.wisc.edu/2017/09/06/norse-mythology-and-nazi-propaganda/

              https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiVrsjyzYXsAhWQaM0KHUA8CCE4ChAWMAl6BAgKEAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdigitalcommons.du.edu%2Fcgi%2Fviewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D1272%26context%3Detd&usg=AOvVaw2E-YRb2CeXtbBZ6L_6ea65

              1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                sigh, please know what you are talking about and stop repeating yourself before you start talking!! Hitler saw no contradiction between swearing oaths to Thor and other Germanic Gods and also invoking the Catholic God, since he wouldn't have done so if he had thought that they were contradictory to each other!! I have given you quotes from him invoking the Catholic God and so you can't honestly say that he didn't do so!! Your citing these 3 statements online or a hundred or a thousand more just like them don't disprove his being a Catholic and belief in the Catholic God, too, and are just your belaboring the obvious!! What part of Hitler's being inconsistent and contradictory from my previous post didn't you understand, the same as you are inconsistent and contradictory, and voodoo practitioners are inconsistent and contradictory, and all Christians are inconsistent and contradictory?!! That is just the human condition and Hitler was subject to it, the same as everyone else!! As Krystina S. below here reminded me, since I didn't mention it in my post, Hitler was a great fan of Richard Wagner and so how is he not going to talk about Thor and other Germanic Gods, since they were some of the subjects of his favorite composer's operas? Hitler took whatever he wanted from anywhere for his mishmash of Nazism, if it suited his purposes, but none of that contradicted, in his mind, his being a Catholic. Let's move on and stop covering the same old ground and your repeating yourself!!

              2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                you really dont like being proved wrong do you Johnny, and yet you post nonsense knowing that you will be called on it

              3. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                DG, you haven't proved me "wrong", except in your own confused and disturbed "mind", which is the same "mind" that tells you that you have been proved "right", as everyone here sees isn't true!! Yet, you still post your nonsense here, knowing that you will be called on it!!

              4. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                the only confused and disturbed mind is clearly the person who seemingly thinks they know more then history, and that would be you

              5. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                I have proved you to be an opinionated lying poster who gets upset when he is proved wrong by the facts of the matter or when his view is destroyed by the facts and reality. Else why have you ran away from at least six other threads when you were handed your rear so badly by other posters and myself? And why did you vanish for about 3 months with no posts at all? I suppose that it was all your choice? And if you believe that considering how many times you post in the threads, I have a large bridge in Frisco I will sell you cheaply

              6. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                Once again, DG, only in your very confused and disturbed "mind", even if you don't admit that you have a confused and disturbed "mind", as usual, have you proved anything about me, much less that I am "an opinionated lying impostor" or "get upset when I am proved wrong by the facts of the matter", which you haven't succeeded in doing, or "when my view is destroyed by the facts and reality", which you haven't done, either!! In fact, the more often and more vehemently you keep saying such things, the more that you prove that you really know that it is YOU!!! who has been proved WRONG!!! by the FACTS and REALITY and are upset because you have been DESTROYED!!! by them and are an OPINIONATED LYING IMPOSTOR!!!, and are just covering that up with all this smoke screen against me and prove all of us RIGHT!!! about you!! So, keep on assisting us in proving you WRONG!!! We appreciate the help!! You know as well as we do that I haven't run away at all, but merely had other far more important things to do and, besides, do get tired of wasting my time on people, such as yourself, and casting pearls before swine, only to have you deflect and evade yet again!! You aren't the center of the universe or of my universe at all!! COME DOWN OFF YOURSELF!! and get real, for a change!! If you believe that I haven't replied "only because I was afraid of answering you", I know some men in white coats that I would like to introduce you to, who have a very interesting jacket for you to try on---with sleeves that tie in the back!!, as well as that large bridge in San Francisco (not "Frisco"!!) that you spoke of (your "deed", like everything else about you, must be phony!! because I have the original!!) and some "prime Florida real estate" that I will sell you very cheaply!! I'm practically giving them away to you!!

              7. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                Once again Johnny, your lips start moving before your brain kicks in. I have backed up everything I have said with links to law and the Supreme Court decisions. Something that you have not done.

                So how about giving your brain a rest in trying to undo what your mouth has said

              8. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                Once again, little Baby Danny, or, rather, the same as always, your lips are moving when your "brain" isn't even working and can't work, anyway!! Only in your poor confused and deluded "mind" have you "backed up everything you have said with links to law and the Supreme Court decisions", which we all see that you haven't actually done, in reality!!! So, how about giving your "brain" a rest in trying to undo what your mouth has said?

              9. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                Poor little Johnny. once again you have proved that not only are you full of hot air you get very unhappy when you are disproved with facts. So much so you start name calling. How old are you really?

              10. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                Poor little Baby Danny, still babbling about other people's "being disproved by the facts and full of hot air" as a cover for and evasion of your knowing that it is really you who has been disproved by the facts and is full of hot air!!! Well, we just have to look down on all of that and make allowances for all of your childish utterances in here because you aren't capable of anything more than that!! We all know your real age (mentally), which is about 4 or 5 years old!!

              11. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                And proving it when dealing with you. Again you have yet to explain Johnny boy, why you have been roasted more times in this section and other threads then anyone else. Its because you allow your mouth to start moving before your brain and what little common sense you have left, kicks in. And then you get upset when you get destroyed by factual links proving that you dont know what you are talking about

              12. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                Poor little Baby Danny once again babbling about my or anyone's "needing to explain anything" and it's even being possible to explain anything to such children as himself, and the rest of his drivel here!! Aren't they cute at his age, trying so hard to keep up with and talk to adults on our level and always major failing at it!! Well, he can't help being the way that he is and so we just have to look down on him and pat him on his head and put him to bed for a long nap!! He even enjoys being condescended to, disrespected, and dismissed in this way because he keeps coming back for more of it and he knows that he deserves it and that nobody takes him seriously at all!! Yes, you have a good little nap, Baby Danny, and give your poor child's brain a rest from all of that babbling and we adults here will tuck you in for the night and carry on with our conversation.

            2. Krystina S.'s Avatar Krystina S.

              Also, Wagnerian thought (Operas about Teutonic gods and the ARYAN race.) plays into this. The hatred for Jewish, Romas ("gypsies,") and the disabled was justified by the desire for a "PURE ARYAN NATION." Hence the ancient, PRE CHRISTIAN themes. And yes, the Occult also played a great part in this religioso-cultural mishmash.

              Rather than Socialism, Hitler really was a heinous NAZIONALIST, XENOPHOBIC, FASCIST, PROPAGANDIST, AUTOCRATIC DICTATOR. It is terrifying that this very idiom of power is on the rise around the world today. Did we learn nothing?

              It is very frightening when people co-opt Religiosity to enhance their POWER. It is ALWAYS WRONG. Whether used by Iran or the Taliban or Boku Haáram or Israeli factions or The United States. Especially The U. S.

          2. Jean Bakula's Avatar Jean Bakula

            Hitler wanted to create an all white race. Didn't you ever have history in school? This is where white nationalism got it's start.

            1. Krystina S.'s Avatar Krystina S.

              Well, not where it got its start. We have a 400 year history of White Supremacy in what became the U.S. We can claim this original sin for our own country to come from European immigrants who landed on our own soil. Here, we had Apartheid, though now, with several different races, we have the remnants of a CASTE SYSTEM. In which each caste starts out uneven from others, with only one having at birth the benefits which accrued for 400 years. But yes, the current White Supremacists and White Nazionalists have direct ties to the Nazis. Because that is a more "pure" version, in which it is JUST CERTAIN WHITES. So they are not supreme. They are the only ones. The so-called ARYAN RACE. Everyone else worked till death or were summarily executed. It is all so evil.

      2. Dan Anderson's Avatar Dan Anderson

        Daniel - Apparently, you are unaware what Democratic Socialism happens to be. It has been prevalent in the US for more than two centuries.

        A few of the Democratic Socialist programs include:

        Social Security Medicare & Medicaid Welfare Services Disability Assistance Food Stamps/WIC Unemployment Benefits Public Schools, including colleges Public Libraries Federal Student Loans Department of Justice Justice Services, courts Public Defenders National Intelligence Agency CIA, FBI, Secret Service Police agencies, including state troopers Fire Departments & EMT Prisons EPA Elections & voting

        This is but a smattering of the massive amount of Democratic Socialism found in the US, ALL that benefit the citizens of the US.

        What specifically do you have AGAINST these programs?

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          Seems I am more familure with this then you are as my mother came from Eppigen germany, during WW2. and you cant refute someone who lived through this

      3. Ilmenheru Terikson's Avatar Ilmenheru Terikson

        Buddy just because they called themselves something didnt make it so. You think fascists advertise they are fascists? Yes they were nationalists because they pushed a germany for germans agenda. That is nationalism plain and simple.

      4. Mark Hannon's Avatar Mark Hannon

        The Nazis persecuted the Communist party members. Socialists killing Communists. Kind of weird to think of. It was the right-wing conservative party that convinced Hindenburg to make Hitler chancellor.

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          sorry but no. The NAZI's were SOCIALISTS (communism for the slow minded) and according to the laws of germany that have not changed in over 100 years, the party that has the most votes is the one that is made the ruling party and the head of the ruling party is the one that is made chancellor or leader. Your claim of some mythical right wing group is just that, a myth. maybe you need to actually know history before you can speak on history or about history

          1. Karu's Avatar Karu

            "First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

            "Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

            "Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

            "Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

            Pastor Martin Niemöller on Hitler and the NAZI movement.

          2. Mark Hannon's Avatar Mark Hannon

            My mother and her 11 brothers and sisters grew up in Garmisch-Partenkirchen Germany from the early 1920's through Hitler coming to power, Hitler combining Garmisch and Partenkirchen, Hitler fulfilling his promise to make Germany great again after it's thumping in WWI, putting everyone back to work and all of World War II. She came to the U.S. in 1948 during the Marshall Plan.

          3. Ilmenheru Terikson's Avatar Ilmenheru Terikson

            Uhm wtf laws of germany are you babbling about? Because Germany teaches that the Nazi were fascists, nationalists, and cult followers of a blend of holy roman empire( christian) valhallaism( their obssession with nordic legend and culture) and false racial superiority born of a very weak grasp on what makes good genes and bad in organisms.

            Its funny though Danny G that you talk about history at all being a flat earther creationist that thinks the hollow pie you live on is only 6 thousand years old. Also dont think I dont recall last year when you said you would rape your own mother if not for your faith in god staying your evil desires.

            I mean do you think that is normal? That we all want to do horrible things to everyone around us and its only our fear of god that keeps us acting civil to one another? Oh wait you answered that way back when you said you would rape and murder anyone on a whim if you did not have faith in god.

            1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

              WTF are you talking about? My niece just came back from germany and brought a school book that they are using as of the last term in germany, and it clearly states that the NAZI's WERE IN FACT SOCIALISTS

              1. Ilmenheru Terikson's Avatar Ilmenheru Terikson

                I hope your niece knows to never be alone with you, considering its only the flimsy string of faith that stays your vile desires towards all women.

              2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                awww, mad because I just destroyed your rant? Typical when you have nothing insult their family

              3. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                DG, I'll tell you, as you told T. Kosse, that if you use profanity (WTF), it must mean that you don't have any real point to make here and are substituting profanity for making a point and you better hope that the moderators here don't ban your posts entirely or delete these posts here. There is some of your own medicine back again! Nazism isn't Socialism because Socialism isn't anti-Semitic, which it couldn't practically be, since it needs to appeal to all people and not alienate any of them, unnecessarily, in order to "achieve world revolution". Also because it was founded by the Jew Karl Marx. Any Nazis who thought or think that they were or are "Socialists" or history books that state that "Nazism was Socialism" are seriously misinformed and ignorant about Socialism! Individual Socialists might, in their personal prejudices, be anti-Semitic, the same as any other individuals might be, but Socialism itself isn't anti-Semitic.

              4. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                Sorry Johnny, I will respond back the same way I am responded to. So if you dont like it then talk with Ilmenheru Terikson and tell him to use better words next time.

              5. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                Sorry, little Danny, but that is just your saying that it's "wrong" for anyone else to use profanity against you, but "right" for you to do what you just said was "wrong" for that person to do and use profanity right back against them, which is a double standard and hypocrisy!! I don't personally have any problem with profanity and, with you, even a saint would start swearing like a sailor or a stable boy, but if YOU!! don't like it from others and think that it's "wrong", then be consistent, at least, and don't give that "wrong" behavior right back to them and make yourself "wrong", too, and stop letting other people's words and actions to you dictate your words and actions and BE A MAN!!!, for a change!!

              6. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                You dont like it then whine to the others to watch their language.

      5. Asa William Sprague, II's Avatar Asa William Sprague, II

        A simple search of the Internet provides multiple citations regarding a Christian Nationalist movement that took place in Germany both before and during the existence of Nazi Germany. Respected sites such as Britannica.Com, GeorgiaSouthern.edu, Dominican.edu, ChristianityToday.com, and PewResearch.org .. to name just a few .. have articles on this specific topic.

      6. Steven Alan Friedenthal's Avatar Steven Alan Friedenthal

        Nazi were not socialists although the name suggests that they were. They led Germany to ruin. Don’t let the same thing happen here.

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          Not what they are teaching in the schools in Hamburg and Eppigen and other cities in germany today

          1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

            DG, superficial, propagandist, and official versions of "history" are being taught in schools in Germany, the United States, and many other countries about many subjects. So, why would it be different about Nazism's being portrayed in schools as "Socialism"? Nazism simply WASN'T!! Socialism, no matter what any schools in Germany or elsewhere are teaching, because Socialism was founded by the Jew Karl Marx and Jews don't originate anti-Semitic or Nazi philosophies or political parties, anymore than Nazis originate Jew-loving philosophies or parties, since it's a contradiction in terms. It's also because Socialism proposes world revolution, which can't be achieved, if at all, by alienating Jewish people or anyone else unnecessarily, as Nazism certainly does!!

            1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

              So now you are trying to dispute the people who actually lived through this as the school book I have came from germany and was written in German and was published by Brunnen Verlag Gmbh. Giessen, in Germany.

              So because they destroy you, you now want people to ignore them?

              1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                Poor little Danny, people who live through anything can still be misinformed and indoctrinated about that thing, as those who lived during the Nazi regime in Germany especially would be and couldn't avoid being, since living through anything isn't a guarantee of not being indoctrinated and misinformed about it!!! That is just obvious!! If it isn't obvious to you, that's because you aren't capable of having anything be obvious to you, which is obvious to other people!! If they are saying that "Nazism was Socialism", they also aren't capable of perceiving the obvious because Nazism doesn't fit the definition of Socialism, as understood by all honest and sensible people!! Only a confused and distorted "mind", such as yours, could consider their misinformation and indoctrination on the subject to "be my destruction", but since you don't even know the truth about yourself or admit when you are destroyed in arguments, you couldn't possibly know the truth about anyone or anything else and so your saying that I "was destroyed" is a ridiculous statement!!! It doesn't matter that the school book was published in Germany (in fact, that only makes it more suspect and likely to be wrong!!). Those people should be ignored, since they are believing and telling lies!!!

              2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                Poor little Johnny, a person who seemingly thinks he knows more about what happened then the people who actually lived through it and then thinks he can say they were wrong because it violates his opinions.

              3. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                Poor little Baby Danny, a person who thinks that people's mere perceptions about an event are more important than the objective reality of that event and "thinks" that those who view the matter objectively and realistically afterward are "wrong" because that violates other people's subjective opinion about it and viewing of the matter!!!

              4. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                still whining and crying because you c ant refute what I said I see. Typical post from you.

              5. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                still whining and crying because you can't accept that I just refuted you I see. Typical post from you.

              6. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                You did no such thing. You have been refuted with facts and destroyed each and every time you try and post Johnny, thats why you have left so many other threads as you were being roasted alive by myself and others in the threads for posting myths and your opinions and expecting people to accept them as fact. Just shows you have not learned your lesson yet

              7. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                So, DG, you finally admit that you have been refuted with the facts and that I utterly destroyed your post, as I do every time that you post in here!! Well, that's fine!! You are beginning to see the error of your ways and we will have you thinking correctly before very much longer!! You now say that you understand my not replying to threads and taking 3 months to reply because I have better things to do than to waste my time on people, such as you used to be!! That is great!! Thankfully, you are coming out of all that now. and no longer foolishly say that I was "roasted alive by you"!! You know better than that now, don't you?!! You may, occasionally, slip and use the old phrases, like an alcoholic who slips back into drinking, sometimes, but you don't really believe any of that anymore and we just have to humor you and patronize and condescend to you when you make those slips of speech!! You have learned your lesson or are learning your lesson and will soon be a good liberal Democrat, the same as all sensible people are!!!

              8. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                No Johnny I have proved beyond reasonable doubt that you dot know what the heck you are talking about and only post to see yourself and your inane statements in print somewhere.

              9. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                Poor little Baby Danny, we all know that you are really admitting that you haven't proved anything at all beyond a reasonable doubt and don't know what in the Hell you are talking about and only post your evasions and coverups to see yourself and your inane statements in print somewhere. You are coming out of that insanity nicely, but still revert back to it, occasionally, out of habit, and will soon be recovered completely and be a solid Democrat, like all other sensible people!!!

              10. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                No sorry, I have proved that you dont know a third of what you try and imply you know and in fact end up posting more lies then 100 posters could if they wanted to, and then get mad because your proved wrong

              11. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                Comment has been removed.

              12. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                Poor little Baby Danny, still babbling that he has "proved" something other than that he doesn't know even a third of what he is talking about or actually anything at all and then gets mad like the child that he is when he is proved wrong again! Well, that's children for you!!

              13. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                Its very simple to see that I have proved what was and has been said about you in this thread and a host of others, you start babbling and use 300 words when 5 will do and expect people to just believe you and then get your knickers in a knot when you are disproved.

          2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

            Regardless of all that we can use another stimulus payment. Amazon needs our business!

  1. Paul J. Fumero's Avatar Paul J. Fumero

    American evangelicals are Satan's secret weapon. What better fools than the ones that work for him and do not even know it. Trump is under daemonic influences and they still support him. Support Trump and you are supporting Satan's plans for America and the world.

    1. Edwin Merle Waltz's Avatar Edwin Merle Waltz

      God your a mental case

      1. SueW's Avatar SueW

        That might be your mirror.

      2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

        I agree. It sounds like his God is a mental case; a total nut job.

      3. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

        Don't give Lord Satan a bum rap. He isn't nearly as bad as some people make him out to be. And a little evil can be a lot of fun. As long as it isn't hurting anyone, don't knock it. If that hurts you, run like hell, or the devil will have your worthless tail!

    2. David A Griffith's Avatar David A Griffith

      They are unable to realize they are being used because all they care about is stopping women from having control of their bodies. They have no idea what to do with all the unwanted babies and are unwilling to give money to support the unwanted children.

      The majority of Christians are good people who truly care about others and living the path Jesus made for them. The minority is so noisy that now all Christians are nasty, mean-spirited, narrow-minded fools. They majority need to spend more time fixing the problems in their religion and leave the rest of us alone.

  1. Matthew Mastrogiovanni's Avatar Matthew Mastrogiovanni

    Ahhh ... the followers of the Prince of Peace; who declares judge not lest ye be judged, to love your neighbour as yourself and to turn the other cheek - just always seems to be looking for an excuse to take up arms, in order to force others to obey or die. The hypocrisy of Christianity knows no bounds,

  1. Tabitha's Avatar Tabitha

    So what’s new? Christians have always been the first to force others at the point of a sword

  1. Philip Joseph Ryan's Avatar Philip Joseph Ryan

    Rick Joyner should stop eating cheese at bedtime, he might stop having peculiar dreams if he did. He might also benefit from reading a decent paper, that covers foreign affairs in-depth, from which he will learn that there is no Marxist threat from anywhere. However, American grandstanding will further feed the Russian paranoid view that America wants to invade them.

    Rick Joyner is one of those people, who have usually never worn a military uniform, yet spout their anger and bile, in the hope of motivating others to do their dirty work. His type is getting America viewed by the rest of the world as incompetent fascists.

  1. Reverend Bob's Avatar Reverend Bob

    Hmmm...Communion and Communism. Jesus was/is a communist in the truest sense. Why is it so hard to understand that faith requires one to give up earthly possessions and help in all ways possible our neighbors? That's what Jesus believed in. That's the point of Christianity. Be kind. Share. “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the Kingdom of God,” Jesus said in Matthew 19:24 NIV. Why spend a few hours on Sunday, worshiping the ultimate Communist, only to condemn and fight against His principles during the rest of the week? Why be a capitalist-dollar addict? When do we have enough? Perhaps I'm rusty in my scriptures but I've never seen in the Bible (New Testament) a passage that recommends we kill our neighbors that don't agree with us. As I understand it, that was Old Testament thinking and Jesus arrived to correct that behavior. Perhaps we should pause a bit and recognize the single biggest challenge that we ignore. AI (Artificial Intelligence) capitalism is behind the scenes in all of our lives' everyday activities, perhaps most of all in what we think of as our news media resources...Our future will be war, death and enslavement if we continue to be unaware while manipulated by it. Time to unplug a bit or at least think more deeply about the algorithms that now control us. In conclusion...we're being played!

    1. Karu's Avatar Karu

      It has long been my observation that many christians no longer have any relationship to the teachings of their prophet (savior) or the basic laws they preach to follow.

    2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      Yeah, Jesus was weird, in that way.

  1. Barry Weisenbach's Avatar Barry Weisenbach

    We need to do what's required of us. No MARXISM !

    1. SueW's Avatar SueW

      Please explain what’s happening that you’d call “Marxism.”

    2. Minister Mike's Avatar Minister Mike

      Why not?

    3. Edwin Merle Waltz's Avatar Edwin Merle Waltz

      I agree 100%

    4. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      And quit watching those Marx movies like Animal Crackers, too.

  1. sage Whitewater Ali 's Avatar sage Whitewater Ali

    I’m openly a Marxist online but I don’t talk about it in my community. I’m deeply spiritual but non religious. The ministry that I’m building is based on common sense and facts. Naturalistic Christian

    1. Edwin Merle Waltz's Avatar Edwin Merle Waltz

      Why don’t you move to Russia then

      1. Ilmenheru Terikson's Avatar Ilmenheru Terikson

        Russia has nothing to do with marxism in this day and age, you silly ignorant person stuck in the 1950s.

        1. Steven Allen Wingler's Avatar Steven Allen Wingler

          great leftist argument calling people names changes minds every time

          1. Ilmenheru Terikson's Avatar Ilmenheru Terikson

            You really need to learn the english language better bub. Silly is not an insult it is a descriptor, a light hearted one in fact, like calling someone fanciful or a day dreamer. If someone wants to take that as an insult that is a them problem not a me problem.

            Nor is the word ignorant. Pointing out to someone that they do not understand current government/policy of said government, and are stating clear falsehoods paints them as either ignorant if I am giving them the benefit of the doubt, or intentionally deceptive aka a liar.

            Pointing out that their pov seems more in line with that of the typical american in the 1950s is but a historical analogue.

            And since they are a suspected liar I really am not trying to change minds, so much as highlight their lies so that they know they are at best wrong and at worst a liar.

      2. SueW's Avatar SueW

        Please tell us you aren’t ordained.

        1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

          Everyone who ever comments on this blog is an ordained ULC minister. It's not for anyone else.

          1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp's Avatar Catherine Ohrin-Greipp

            Daniel Gray is a Troll. He is not an ordained ULC minister. Look him up on our minister's website. Not there. He is a fake. Anyone can come on this particular blog and make comments. and then there's Flugo? Sure.

            1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

              Um sorry but I am an ordained minister through here. Are you really that desperate to make this claim. Else why would the site come along and send me emails titled like this

              TheMonastery.org Ordinations Unsubscribe

              2:30 PM (4 minutes ago)

              Greetings Minister Daniel E. Gray,

              There are some great conversations happening over on our blog, and we want to make sure you’re kept in the loop. Don’t miss the chance to make your voice heard!

              Your lies keep growing and growing because you cant refute me and you seemingly type while looking into a mirror. So the only troll here is you.

      3. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp's Avatar Catherine Ohrin-Greipp

        Edwin, it would be better if you self deport back to the country of your people. Why are some of you fake ministers here? Oh, right to troll us. Best to just go find another platform to spread your propaganda, mansplaining and disrespect like PARLR.

  1. Vern Dee Wall's Avatar Vern Dee Wall

    I missed the intent of the remark about missing civics class. I took civics in 1956 and the entire class could have been reduced to a single sentence: "Cops can go anywhere and do anything." The high point of the class was a tour of the county jail.

  1. William Stanton Myers's Avatar William Stanton Myers

    Would someone please tell me why the evangelical right supports Trump when even yesterday he voiced his support for Putin? Name one communist country that didn’t have a dictator? Yet you support a president who refuses to condemn both leading dictators of China & Russia.. and don’t tell me Russia’s a democracy., it’s run by a former KBG operative.

    Enlighten me.. please??

    1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

      Ok then how can you support Biden when he claimed that he supported Ping? and Ping says he wants Biden to be president.

      1. William Stanton Myers's Avatar William Stanton Myers

        Answer my question please and while you do maybe expose yourself to a little more diverse news than Fox or Breitbart. I understand that many community colleges offer courses in internet research and civic classes as well. Avail yourself of both for your own benefit in order to avoid appearing Ignorant in the future.

        https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/09/06/us/politics/biden-china.amp.html

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          Dont have to watch fox news, I got this information from ABC/NBC and CBS. Or are you calling them a liar now because they destroyed you and your post?

  1. Jennifer Briggs's Avatar Jennifer Briggs

    Labels and language do matter, but we can spend time debating the academic application of particular political ideologies - or we can see them for what they are ... propaganda to draw different people in to their agenda. Whether Hitler was a Christian or not is not the debate. The issue is social control and can there be a coalition of many based on compassion and appreciation (or merely acceptance) of differences? Can fear be squashed so people don't live in a state of perceived harm that encourages othering of fellow humans? I certainly hope so. But, unfortunately, the American political system is clearly adversarial and the polarizing factions know, from history, that culture wars help build coalitions.

    My opinion - the enemy is fear. Trump or anyone else who preaches fear as a source of energy needs to voted from leadership. Or, better yet, never on the ballot as an option. This doesn't mean we'll have the love and light brigade either. But, finding a place where people can have dignity and coexist without harm is important. Intellectual debate needs to have a renaissance, but in a "post-truth" era - how do we get there? I'm far from a historian - but are their positive lessons that we can learn from and turn in to contemporary action?

  1. Robert Edward Szekely's Avatar Robert Edward Szekely

    There are no true winners in religious wars. God never takes sides, regardless of the rhetoric. People who make these claims are pathological, and should never be given credence as actual believers.

    Also, those who equate socialism = communism need to engage in a deeper dive into studies of political science.

  1. Joseph Balletta's Avatar Joseph Balletta

    We can go back to the beginnings of Christianity and realize how it was subverted by " Sadism" -the followers of Satan. And these "liars"Satan's greatest power is lieing pretend or use the tile Christian when in fact they are terrorists whose purpose is always to make people suffer with fear.. Hello all you Real Christians out there who are kind ,loving and suffering keep up the good work and never accept the lies or the liars who only know how to murder.

  1. Alexander Clarke's Avatar Alexander Clarke

    More rantings from the usual right wing religionists. Is Jim Bakker still around? Gee, what a POS he is.

  1. The Right Reverend D. Batch's Avatar The Right Reverend D. Batch

    How many Christians have been killed by Marxism? My conservative guess is at least 100 Million.

    1. Minister Mike's Avatar Minister Mike

      Like guns, political movements do not - can not - kill. Only people kill. But, let's say, for the sake of discussion, marxists have killed christians. On what verifiable evidence is that 100 million figure based? Any opinion on the 1 billion + non-christians killed by christians?

      1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

        Soviet Union, Eastern Europe, China, North Korea, Indochina, Cuba, Afghanistan, Ethiopia, Angola, Mozambique estimates more than 100 million Christians slaughtered. Stalin and Mao were the biggest killers, followed by Pol Pot, Mengistu and the Kims. Hundreds of millions of Christians were terrorized by totalitarian police states requiring all to render homage to Marx’s delusions. Even the usually wrong Wikipedia validates this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union

        And sorry there has not been 1 billion non Christians killed by Christians. That is a complete myth and you have no basis in fact to even say it

        1. Ilmenheru Terikson's Avatar Ilmenheru Terikson

          Even the catholic church recognizes events like the crusades, the inquistion, the genocide of native tribal groups all over the world. Every single one of them a death that stains the faith called Christianity.

        2. Minister Mike's Avatar Minister Mike

          Where do you want to start? The crusades - christians killing muslims. Catholic inquisition targeted primarily jews. Jews killed by all christian denominations as retribution for killing jesus even in the US. Most German soldiers guilty of murdering jews in the 1930's and '40's were raised as good lutherans. Serbian genocide of muslims. The list is not a myth and murders go on and on even today. I'll stick with my 1 billion non christians murdered by christians estimate based on historical and modern facts.

          Yes, you are very sorry person for perpetuating your myth. I bet you're white, too.

          1. Karu's Avatar Karu

            Let's not forget all the innocents killed by Christian militia during the conversion of Northern Europe. In Estonia it is said that the Church came to us on the point of a sword and a torch.

            Then there is the conquest of the America's, where Christianity was used as an excuse to butcher nearly 12 million indigenous people.

            1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

              And lets not forget all the innocents murdered and slaughtered by Communism and facism and socialists, which according to history far outnumber over 1.5 BILLION people worldwide. And its still going on today

          2. Steven Allen Wingler's Avatar Steven Allen Wingler

            nice racist comment minister mike

            1. Minister Mike's Avatar Minister Mike

              So? Show me someone who isn't.

        3. Asa William Sprague, II's Avatar Asa William Sprague, II

          Your link to the Wikipedia article clearly states that although Marx was anti-religion, at no time did he advocate the killing of Christians. Marx position was that religion needed to be dismissed as a crutch so that people could realize their own human agency.

          It was Lenin who promoted the idea that people should engage in combat with religion. The Bolsheviks expanded on Lenin's interpretation and began the systematic arrest, imprisonment and killing of Christians.

          1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

            I'll pass on Lenin, and listen to Lennon's song Imagine, instead.

            1. Asa William Sprague, II's Avatar Asa William Sprague, II

              Well that is very interesting. You will decline to read Marx and learn how Leninism was an alteration of Marxist thought, but you will listen to John Lennon who supported Leninism. That's a great way to maintain your stilted view. Cheers!

    2. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

      Oh really and just where are these Marxism you speak of, really I like to know because as far as I can see there aren't any to be found here in the U.S.A.

      1. SueW's Avatar SueW

        I’d like to know the same thing.

      2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

        I haven't seen any iether, T Kosse.

      3. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

        use your head for something besides a musical instrument. He was talking world wide. And in China alone over 100 million were killed. And lets not count the purges of Communist Russia, or the local purges from the Muslum nations. Honestly Kossee, if you dont know what you are talking about then please keep your lips zipped

        1. Asa William Sprague, II's Avatar Asa William Sprague, II

          Communist Russia was not Marxist. The old U.S.S.R. (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) was not Marxist. China is not Marxist. Muslim Nations are not Marxist.

          Working our way backwards: Muslim Nations are generally Theocratic (aka: ruled by religious leaders). Theocracies are based on Religious Teachings; not on the theories of Marxism.

          The People's Republic of China is a Totalitarian Regime. It's structure was originally based on modifications to Marxist theory by Lenin and Mao Zedong. It's structure was not / is not built on original / Orthodox Marxism.

          Similarly, both the old USSR and old Communist Russia were Totalitarian Regimes loosely based on Lenin's interpretation of Marxism.

          1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

            LOLOLOLOL oh thank you for the laugh...Marx was one of the basic pillars of Communism so your whole post is utter nonsense.

            1. Asa William Sprague, II's Avatar Asa William Sprague, II

              Interesting response there Daniel. I guess that makes Jesus the Christ responsible for White Supremacy because the KKK presents Biblical teachings as central a pillar of their world view. SMH

              1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                have a problem with the truth do you?

              2. Asa William Sprague, II's Avatar Asa William Sprague, II

                Considering the fact that you trying to doge my point with a meaningless ad hominem, I would seem to have less problems with the truth than you.

              3. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                considering the fact that I am giving historical facts and you dont want to accept them, its no skin off my nose when you look foolish

              4. Asa William Sprague, II's Avatar Asa William Sprague, II

                Considering that your "historical facts" are not all that accurate, it's no skin off my nose when you look willfully ignorant.

              5. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                considering they are not disputed buy anyone with intelligence, you might want to get sun block for your skinless nose.

            2. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

              DG, since "Marx was one of the basic pillars of Communism", as you say and as he was, why do you also that the Nazi Party, which hated and killed Communists, was itself "Communist" or "Socialist", since that is a contradiction and makes your posts saying that utter nonsense?!! "A house divided against itself cannot stand", as Jesus said. Stalin purged millions of people in Russia, whom he believed "weren't truly Communists" because they opposed him, but the Nazis killed people whom they knew and admitted to be Communists because they were Communists, which they wouldn't have done if they were Communists, too!!

              1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                paranoid people like Stalin and Mao and others trying hard to keep hold of the power they stole

              2. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                Again, DG, Stalin and Mao killing "non-Communists", according to them, since those people opposed them, to keep hold of the power they stole, which is different than the Nazis did, in killing Communists because they were Communists, to keep hold of their power.

              3. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                Again Johnny, know what you are talking about BEFORE you start talking, you will look far more intelligent.

    3. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      And there's still too many christians in the world.

  1. Pamela Kay Waters's Avatar Pamela Kay Waters

    I think the black lives matter group better stand down or maybe if they want a civil war did they forget what the kkk can do? This is bull their lives matter no more than the rest of us. If they would just do what the police tell them to do when they are stopped instead of running or arguing with the police and do what most people do obey. But they never do. They have to cause problems and always bring attention to themselves.

    1. Justin Steven Tallent's Avatar Justin Steven Tallent

      Pamela ,That is just about the most vile and racist thing I have seen actually posted online with my own eyes. I would hate to learn you claim to be a Christian with those views. The black community is just struggling to receive due equality that has by and large not fully happened since the end of slavery. Not even considering the implications of how anti-Christian that is, apparently you believe that Jesus was only for white people and He supports the KKK? You do realize He was a Jew and Middle Eastern( not white). Regardless of faith, we live in America which is supposed to be free, with due process of law and the right to a fair and speedy trial, regardless if a person argues or does not cooperate. Lethal force should only be used when all other options fail and suspects are threatening lethal force, not summary executions. These cops are taking upon themselves the role of judge, jury and executioner. Most of those killed are unarmed and by and large cooperating. Some were even sleeping peacefully in their own homes when invaded and attacked. As American citizens we have the God given right and responsibility to question and resist unlawful and unjust detention and seizure. To quote the 4th amendment to the Constitution "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." I may be under threat of losing my life or being arrested for "failure to comply" but this is the US and I will stand for my rights and those of others regardless of color. Perhaps you would be more comfortable in North Korea where your views are a reality. The moment we just blindly obey is the moment we give up our freedom and our right to be an American citizen. Sadly however you can be murdered by police just based on the color of your skin or what you look like rather than actually posing any threat and it will take more than just one white guy standing up for himself to affect any real change. For the record i am a white Christian and Southern ordained minister.

    2. Ilmenheru Terikson's Avatar Ilmenheru Terikson

      LOL you really do not understand a thing about systemic racism. how at least a 3rd of all law enforcement identify with at least one militant white nationalist group?

      Oh wait ofcourse you do, you are literally trying to threaten pov with the KKK like any sane citizen of this country doesnt want to see every single person who is part of the KKK and such groups lobotomized and tossed into the wilds to be finished off by nature.

    3. Krystina S.'s Avatar Krystina S.

      Pamela, Pamela, Pamela. flugo, flugo, flugo. Both of you are abject racists. The United Stated is not SUPPOSED to be a Racist State. I hope you know that. Part of creating a "More Perfect Union" is to root out Racism, Misogyny, and other vile inequalities which create an UNJUST SOCIETY.

      "Black Lives Matter (too.)" This is what it means. When the life of a black person is respected, the lives of ALL of us are BETTER PROTECTED. Jesus talked about "The Least of These." For 400 years, black people have been seen as LESSER. This paradigm describes that when those people are lifted up to be treated without cruelty or murder, then WE ALL BENEFIT. People of all racial backgrounds.

      My white son was terribly beaten up by the police, his motorcycle kicked and destroyed, during a routine traffic stop. Why? His behavior was respectful, even as they were striking him. Because they could. MANY people have been shown abuse, injury and even wrongful death at the hands of the police. But it is far worse for black people.

      The only thing that is different today is THE CELLPHONE. We are finally seeing people who are no danger being murdered, yes murdered, by the police. People who have no weapon, who are submitting, who are not threatening. You know what? When the police treat everyone with dignity and respect, as human beings they are SWORN TO SERVE AND PROTECT, then the police will benefit greatly!! They will be universally appreciated rather than feared. They will not be as afraid, because they will not cause others to react aggressively towards them.

      This is the way the police are in MANY OTHER COUNTRIES. It is not pie in the sky. It is the REALITY. Anyone who does not believe that Black Lives Matter, ALSO has no respect for the decent, compassionate, wonderful police officers whose reputation is destroyed by these bad actors- and poor training, and white supremacist members. This is the other side of the coin. Black lives must matter in order for those in Blue to be seen as our Protectors!! For all Americans to have mutual respect, we must GIVE RESPECT AND CARE FOR OTHERS. Thus, even a racist must see that Black Lives Matter is also about fixing that bad police system so we can uplift those in blue to be universally appreciated, rather than feared or scorned. You can care about black people and also care about police officers. And also care about white people. And EVERYONE.

    4. flugo's Avatar flugo

      Pamela, you touched on a vital element often overlooked. Most police-involved shootings result from the 'victim' failing to do what's ordered. In the 13th chapter of Romans, we are told to respect, obey and pray for authority, because it is 'God-ordained'. It starts in the home: 'Don't play with matches!' Then school: 'Don't use cell phones in class!' Police: 'Stop! Show me your hands!' Employer: 'Be at work 8:00 am sharp!' State: 'Speed limit 55 mph! National: 'Deploy to Viet Nam!' And finally, God: 'Thou shalt not . . . . .!'
      It's quite basic. Either obey a lawful order, or suffer the consequences. . . . . and, don't blame the authority figure!

      1. Ilmenheru Terikson's Avatar Ilmenheru Terikson

        Im sure that is what you tell the sister you admit to having desires to rape, that you as a man have divine authority and she should not blame you for doing what you have the right to do. I suspect you say the same to anyone you can abuse actually and truly feel sorry for anyone in your life that you have even a smidge of power over.

    5. flugo's Avatar flugo

      Good point, Pamela. And, talkjng about the BLM movement. . . . . one of their main tenents is the dissolution of the nuclear family! Here's what you get from a one-parent family. Five times the suicides, 6 time the poverty, 9 times high school drop-out rate, 10 times the drug use, 14 times a rape victim, 20 times going to prison, and 32 times running away from home. Yeah, let's support the BLM-ers, eh?

  1. Richard Arriaga's Avatar Richard Arriaga

    'Then the Lord will settle arguments among many nations. He will make decisions for strong nations that are far away. Then the nations will make their swords into plows. They will make their spears into hooks for trimming trees. Nations will no longer fight other nations. They will not even train for war anymore.'

    Isaiah 2:4 https://my.bible.com/bible/1359/ISA.2.4

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      I have some very interesting beach property in Nevada that you might be interested in. Just let me know.

      🦁❤️

      .

  1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

    Then some faith leaders are wrong. Dont go looking for conflict, its not pretty. Just do what your religion dictates and stop looking for trouble. As a 100% Perm and Total Disable Vet who received my injuries in conflict, I can safely state that the vast majority of these religious leaders either wont or dont have the stomach to start a fight. So have a coke and a smile and mind the business of your church and religion. Thats all you are supposed to do anyway is to care and tend for the flock that has been assigned to you, not to start trouble or go looking for it if it isnt bothering you

  1. Mark Hannon's Avatar Mark Hannon

    Let's all base a civil war on a sentence or two from the Bible! Think of how many people will send us money. I wonder how Marxists there were before Karl Marx? Could someone take a conservative guess?

  1. Steven P Robinson's Avatar Steven P Robinson

    I am a Heathen and my wife is an agnostic deist, who is culturally Greek Orthodox.

    However, we do have military experience, basic US civics education and firearms ownership in common.

    We are opposed to both Marxists and Millennialists..

    1. Ilmenheru Terikson's Avatar Ilmenheru Terikson

      So you are vile wastes of life who do not recognize that as people who have joined the military you are now slaves of the citizens, and have no place to challenge any citizen at all. You only may serve, never challenge nor threaten even the least of the people of this country unless you wish to betray the oath you claim to have made.

      There are no such thing as millennialists, to even say something like that suggest you are unhinged and ready to start attacking anyone who deem a target of opportunity. That speaks volumes about your mental health or lack there of.

  1. Alan S Corr's Avatar Alan S Corr

    One of our constitutional freedoms , is the freedom of religion. To practice our faith ! yes I believe we can live with one another and practice our faith . What ever that faith may be . I have not seen Christian nationalism on the rise I have seen far left radicals burning and looting rioting and unrest in our country. . I pray for our country our president our leaders.

    1. Krystina S.'s Avatar Krystina S.

      Well. Christofascist Nationalism is what Hungary and Poland and the United States currently have in their leaders. The less than 7% of left wing protests which have any sort of aggression often have RIGHT wing agents provacateurs trying to create violence, damage, or inciting mayhem because of their belief in starting a ""Christian Race War."" My white family has been in protests for decades and decades. It is our right as Americans. The #1 Terrorist and National Threat in the United States is.... what?... WHITE SUPREMACISTS (who usually use Christian ""anti-Muslim"" rhetoric.) I PRAY that our new President can help to HEAL some of this racial divide that has ramped up hundreds-fold in the last 4 years, incited by our "leader."

  1. Richard Lee Cornell's Avatar Richard Lee Cornell

    Put a hundred pastors in a room and ask them to pick a leader in a hour. Hour later each one wants to be that leader. Put the 7,000 Christians congregations in a room and ask them to pick a leader and after one hour you would have 7,000 congregations trying to kill each other. Sorry I rather not fellow any one into battle. Give this pastor a gun and have him charge the enemy. I will stand on the side line and see what happens.

    1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      Can we all just get a bong?

  1. Anne Fernandez's Avatar Anne Fernandez

    Thank you for these articles that are not published anywhere else, and not taking sides. Refreshing especially when most other writers seem to write about their personal preferences. Anne

  1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

    whaaaaa. You act like you have some authority around here or think you do. If you want to whine johnny then go to the source who started it

    1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

      Comment has been removed.

  1. Arch Bishiop Rev Robert E Wright Jr's Avatar Arch Bishiop Rev Robert E Wright Jr

    why not make love not war

  1. Christian's Avatar Christian

    If Marxists want communism, then they should move to China or North Korea, and renounce their citizenship to the USA Constitution and Bill of Rights. They can become comrades of those nations, since they have already and openly, publicly abandoned U.S. citizenship.

    Give to Stalin what is Stalin's,
    and Give to God what is God's :
    U.S.A.
    One Nation Under God, In God We Trust.
    and may God Bless America. God is Love. Follow Love.

  1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

    Thats because its so bloody easy to prove you wrong and you have been proved wrong more times then carter has liver spots.

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