The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has once again erupted in violence, resulting in hundreds dead, even more displaced, and reignited fears of the possibility of full scale warfare in the region.
But what became immediately clear is that the consequences of this violence are not regional – they’re global. Over the weekend, as news of the conflict spread around the world, protests and counter-protests erupted in cities across Europe and the United States.
Our hearts and minds are with all of the innocent people currently suffering in the region. While events are playing out on the ground at far too fast a pace to cover on this blog, we do think it is worthwhile to learn a bit about how we got here. What is the history of the conflict? How can we understand the historical – and continued – significance of religion in the dispute?
We’ve done our best to provide brief answers to some of these questions below – but feel free to contribute your own insight in the comments section.
Ancient Historical Roots
The origin story of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict can be traced back thousands of years. The Israelites, at least according to the Old Testament, were led by figures like Abraham, Moses, and later King David and Solomon, to establish a Jewish presence in the region over three millennia ago.
It is important to note that there remains considerable debate among scholars about these earliest days, including what the exact timeline of events was and whether or not some of these figures actually existed.
There is a lot of complex history here: historical and archaeological evidence points to several different tribes residing in the area over the years, and there were quite clearly a number of conquests that disrupted the region over the centuries… so, we’ll come back to this, but for now we’ll fast-forward to around the time the Romans arrived, when it can be established that the area was predominantly Jewish, and that Jerusalem was the spiritual and political center for the Jewish people. Jesus’ life in the region took place within this window.
But… it was not to last. Under the rule of the Roman Empire, the Jews would eventually be expelled from the land following revolts against Roman control. In the year 136, Emperor Hadrian initiated measures to minimize a Jewish presence in the region, including renaming it from Judea to "Syria Palaestina" (a precursor to the name "Palestine").
After these revolts, a large portion of the Jewish population was killed, enslaved, or dispersed throughout the Roman Empire. Though not all Jews were expelled, and a Jewish presence in the land continued in some form, the majority of Jews lived in diaspora for nearly two millennia.
Throughout these periods of dispersion, the memory of the ancient homeland remained central in Jewish liturgy, rituals, and identity. The concept of returning to Zion (a name often used for Jerusalem and the land of Israel) was a consistent theme.
Islamic Emergence
And as we indicated earlier…the Jews were not the only inhabitants of this land. During those same years, the region (also known by its ancient name of Canaan), became home to a tapestry of various tribes and kingdoms, including the Philistines after whom Palestine is named.
In the 7th century CE, the rise of Islam ushered in a new chapter. Caliph Umar captured Jerusalem in 638 CE, and for centuries, the city and surrounding areas were under Muslim rule.
Throughout this period, the holy sites in Jerusalem, like the Al-Aqsa Mosque, gained paramount significance for Muslims worldwide. That mosque is now considered the third most important site in all of Islam (after the mosques in Mecca and Medina).
Although under Muslim control during this time period, the region was also home to Christians who, like the remaining Jews, lived as a religious minority in a land of immense spiritual significance to their faith.
Establishment of a Jewish State
Fast-forwarding again to the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the Zionist movement, which aimed at establishing a Jewish homeland in Palestine, gained momentum. The movement's goals were driven partly by religious connections to the land and partly by a response to European anti-Semitism.
The Balfour Declaration of 1917 by the British government, favoring the establishment of a "national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine, further inflamed tensions. For approximately 400 years prior to this time, the region of Palestine had been a part of the Ottoman Empire that was dissolved in the wake of World War I.
Following the atrocities of World War II, the United Nations officially backed the establishment of the state of Israel and a homeland for the Jewish people where they would be free of persecution.
In order to create a state of Israel, however, the land was forcibly partitioned – prompting violent conflict between the Jews and the Palestinians living there, and their Arab neighbors. In the resulting wars in 1948 and 1967, many Palestinians were displaced from the land they had called home for centuries.
That displacement has been a central point of grievance in the conflict that continues to this day.
Religious Sites and Their Significance
So how exactly does religion figure into this?
Even today, the city of Jerusalem is home to important religious sites for all three faiths with ties to the region – and thus remains a flashpoint in the conflict.
- For Jews, the Western Wall is a last remnant of the Second Temple, the holiest site in Judaism.
- For Muslims, the Dome of the Rock, believed to be the place from where Prophet Muhammad ascended to heaven, holds immense significance.
- Christians revere the city for sites like the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, where it's believed Jesus was crucified and resurrected.
While many aspects of the conflict are driven by territorial, economic, and political issues, the religious dimension cannot be overlooked. Religious beliefs sometimes exacerbate tensions – like when certain Jewish groups advocate for rebuilding the Third Temple at the site where Al-Aqsa stands, or when Islamic groups deny the Jewish historical connection to the Temple Mount. The protection of and right to access these sites of tremendous holy import has been an incredibly crucial part of negotiations over the years.
Although far from the sole factor behind the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, religion plays a crucial role in shaping identities, narratives, and claims.
What is your reaction to the recent news? Do you see faith as a path – or an impediment – to a potential resolution?
233 comments
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Michael S. Matsie
Let's call it what it is. An evil entity that's always been focused on the destruction of all Christians & anyone connected to Jesus in any way.
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Emily J Vank Kam
I think that info matter who you are black white what religion or belief or if you are Muslims you still have the right to be treated the same as everyone else we all bead and put our pants on the same way we need to love eachother and have faith and put it all in gods hands
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Catherine Christina Deslippe
"War" will never gain on any side; it shows greed and hate. Most of all, I saw so many deaths for no reason. One very wrong has caused more pain not just in Gaza but all around the world. I am praying as much as I can for the innocence of sweet young children and their mothers. Yet, as I see in my own Country, protestors gather and divide in a land they choose to live in, with words of hate towards each other and especially toward the Police. It breaks my heart; for those who wish war, go home and fight for your place of home, For I am a person of love, not hate.
For as God so loved the world, he gave his only son.
As I speak of God I understand why, his greatest gift was that of Jesus. We all should learn from him. Give not want, Love not to hate, Communicate not War, Life is the most precious gift of all, celebrate. May the peace of the Lord be with every one of you. Amen
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Tareq Asfour
not in my wildest dreams, I would ever believe that all of you are still following the same narrative as that Nicole Zedeck reporter I24 who falsely claimed Palestinians were cutting off heads of babies. all of you over here are supposed to be ministers right since when do you all believe in false stories?
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ServantOfJudgement
Tareq
The old testament documents Israel being treated this way by its enemies long before Nicole Zedeck was thought of. They would cut the baby from the womb of an Israelite and smash its head against the ground. The practice hasn't ended.
If you've got the stomach for it you can search these grotesque videos out for yourself. Personally I've grown weary of radical islamic videos showing all forms of unspeakable horrors inflicted upon their victims to watch another. They make me almost pass out from the gore. Even remembering it makes me dizzy. They're terrible.
There's a chance you're being mislead right now.
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Pastor George Day
Tareq Asfour,
And what exactly are your sources to claim these are false stories?
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Karen S Strauss
Hi all, there are many good points being made here. But I have One particular question that remains unanswered; Why is the World, (or so it seems) antisemitic?
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Pastor George Day
It is a fulfillment of prophecy, Karen S Strauss. The Bible says the nations would rise against Israel.
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Lisbeth Kieran Bushey
If the estimates of 40% of Gaza's population being under 18 is correct, than most of the population never voted for Hamas in the last election that was held - in 2006. Hamas either murdered or drove into exile all the non-Hamas politicians and it's been a dictatorship since 2007. Hamas may claim to be Muslim, but the Quran explicitly forbids killing innocent people (5:32) which means babies, kids, non-combatants, etc. so they're just terrorist war criminals claiming to be Muslim.
We can't just wish for one side or the other to wipe the other out because that's genocide. So is hoping they both wipe each other out. What we can do is hope each side holds the war criminals accountable in a court of law via fair trials when this eventually ends and hope/pray that innocent bloodshed is kept to a minimum. It's more than religion here - it's greed, land, resources, racism, and other human factors. Had Europe minded their business and not gotten involved in deciding who lives where in an area that isn't theirs, this could have been largely avoided. I hope that non-combatants are going to be able to get out of Gaza, because Israel isn't going to stop bombing them. Neither country is innocent here, but what the Hamas terrorists have done is unforgivable in every religion and to most people without religion. Fight with adults, leave babies out of it.
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Jesse Amado-Conway Garcia
Can’t we all just get along? If true religious beliefs are followed then all historical sites that currently stand should be honored but not coveted. After all, aren't any physical possessions frowned upon by all religious beliefs? And finally, “What would Jesus do?”
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Pastor George Day
Jesse Amado-Conway Garcia,
This is very over simplistic. The Jews have a right to the land by divine decree. Hamas wants to exterminate us from the face of the earth. How do we live in peace with someone who does not want our existence? This is basic mental health!
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Drew Charles Robertson
Hi Keith. I’ve read that 40% of the folks that live in Gaza are children; I guess that means they are under 18 years of age. Do they too “stand by silently” and so are responsible for Hamas’s power?How do the children fit into Gilda Meir’s calculation and your arithmetic that “close to a million Muslims must die”? Yes, rid the world of the cowardly Hamas but we must be less emotional about it and more intelligent. There is no ending to circular vicious views like yours. Sure the people of Gaza should likely stand up to Hamas but you do notl live there so it is quite easy for you say.
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Lisbeth Kieran Bushey
If 40% of the population of Gaza is under 18, then none of them voted for Hamas in their last election - which was in 2006. It's been a dictatorship since 2007 when all non-Hamas politicians were either murdered or fled. It's easy to be an armchair Monday morning quarterback when you're not there.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Not really. We stood up to the British. By all accounts we should have lost. The Confederates stood up to the Union . By all rights they should have won but the Weapons manufacturers were in the North, immigrants came into the North and enlisted with the promise of citizenship after serving, etc. Things just stand against certain groups unless they're lucky to get help.
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Keith Allen Clinkscale
I would caution every one from weighing in because what you just discribed is exactly what Christians in America did to Africans "One side kidnaps, rapes, tortures, imprisons, burns alive, beheads, drowns in cages, forces women as rape slaves, guns down, kills children and has sworn to destroy the other side at all costs and never rest until they've done it." This is was exactly what happend right here in America...and the bible was used to justify it. People who live in glass houses (westerners) should not throw stones. We are not the authority on the matters happening in Israel.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
We didn't do it. The Dutch did. They brought them over and we purchased them. Take advantage of a great economic idea. What we should do with the illegals. Watch em head back over the border.
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John Albert Daniel
IT IS GOOD TO TALK ABOUT THE BIBICAL HISTORY OF THE ISRALITES, BUT ALL THIS HELL STARTED , IN 1948 WITH THE FORMING OF A JEWISH STATE, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GOD, SET UP BY MAN. THERE WILL NEVER BE PEACE, IN THAT REGION.
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Pastor George Day
John Albert Daniel,
Why are you shouting? 1948 was a fulfillment of biblical prophecy. Israel was formed in one day!
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P. Keith Benefiel
What goes around, comes around.
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Rev Ned
Until all of one of two factions have been killed off there will be no peace.
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Lionheart
I would go one step further, Sir Ned, and say that until there is no religion, there will not be peace on earth.
My dog doesn’t believe in any God, and he is still a good boy.
Not sure about my cat though 🤭
🦁❤️
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Lisbeth Kieran Bushey
My cat thinks she is a god, it's likely yours does too :'D
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart,
You will be surprised to hear that animals, being free from original sin, have a connection with God, tailored to their ability to receive. Animals are more sensitive to spiritual interference. This is an established fact.
I often watch my cat connecting with God. It's impressive.
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Minister Butterworth
I'm not here to debate the particulars of this war.
I hope and pray for the warring to end. For each individual to become aware of their own faults and to adress said faults in a manner not requiring pain and death of others. For all involved to find peace,joy,love, and fulfillment in life.
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Diane Minna LaFave
It is so sad what is happening in Israel . I have prayed for the People and the Country. Israel's military is able to handle the situation. I pray this war will end soon. Remember God has a plan. God wins, we win !
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Pastor George Day
Diane Minna LaFave,
And Israel wins too!
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Kevin John Thomas James Jude Stephen Francis Morrisroe
Correction: the Western Wall is not the last remnant of the Second Temple, it is a retaining wall for the platform upon which the destroyed Temple was located.
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Lionheart
It’s amazing how many people love to nod their head at a brick wall, all under the delusion that they are speaking to a God. I wonder if they firmly believe that their God is listening harder to them if they stand by that wall? 🤷🏼
🦁❤️
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ServantOfJudgement
Lionheart,
Get a notepad and pen. Your right on that one.
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Pastor George Day
ServantOfJudgement,
No, he's not. The God of the Old Testament honors our celebration of memories of the wonders of God. It adds a taste to our worship, and God is pleased with it. Then he also remembers, and he acts. This is biblical. The Eucharist is a New Testament example of that: we remember by giving thanks for what Yeshua did for us on the cross (Eucharist = thanksgiving), and God also remembers and acts by making us partakers of that event, just as if we were there in person (bread = body; wine = blood). The Wailing Wall worship must be understood in this memorial context.
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Ellie_Loves
Lets be clear, at this point it has nothing to do with religion, well maybe a fraction of it is about religion, but its about power, ego and real estate.
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John Robert Milner
Let’s live in the present! Hamas is a terrorist organization, period! They are supported, funded and trained by the Iranian government! That government is a secular Islamic far right government that believes the world should be modeled after their beliefs! They hate every religion and want domination including all peoples who are not their followers! They control the Palestinian population by fear! The Palestinian people have lived side by side with other governments with trade and commerce for decades. Hamas is a major political problem!
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Catherine
Hamas is supported by multiple countries. Why?
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Lionheart
Mostly through ignorance, Lady Catherine. Their closest neighbors, Arabia, does not support Hamas, nor Hezbollah.
🦁❤️
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Mrknowitall
Destroy the temple then drive every Arab out of Gaza by leveling it to the ground, then erect a border 40 to 50 miles beyond that.....Kill or be killed. When are the Jews gonna learn ?
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Rev Ned
Apparently, some of those who survived WWII, were taking notes. The Gaza Strip bears, IMHO, some similarities to the Warsaw Ghetto.
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Gerard Anthony Ritchie
Chilling comment but you have a point.
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Mark Thomas Millbauer
Thank you for the detailed history lesson.
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Kathryn Darcy Smith
Sorry to say, but until the ENTIRE MIDDLE EAST is turned to glass and\or every single religious person there has forgotten their religion FOREVER, they will be killing each other "for god" until the sun goes supernova. You KNOW this is fact.
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Pastor George Day
Kathryn Darcy Smith,
Just like it is a fact that all atheist governments have killed their own people too: equal, if not worse!
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TheSound.com
The solution is obvious, and clear from Master Yashua's (Jesus) teachings. It is "love your enemy." While it seems difficult to be almost impossible, it is possible to put the billions spent on the war machines to improve the lives of the oppressed. Violence can be contained using NON-lethal means.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
But, you cannot tell that to those elites in power. The military industrial complex. They looked on Eisenhower as a rumbling old man. Just as they do Biden. Obama secretly us in in control.
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Allen Kumetz
It is both sides. Hamas is terrible but Israel isn't innocent. They let Israeli settler settle where they shouldn't pushed Palestinians out, like we did to Indians. You should go back to your heritage country 3 or 4 generations later and say you should have this property because you have roots to it.wait till the Indians want their land back,( that you live on) are you going to give it to them
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
What happened to the Indians was inevitable. You can't let natives running around when you're trying to build a nation to keep the World out. Very simple. Indians appeased the whites and more whites came wanting more. Vicious cycle. If aliens existed don't you think they wouldn't do the same damn thing. Of course they would. No-one would come in peace. They come with an agenda. Everyone does.
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Pastor George Day
Keith Allen Steele Eash,
History repeats itself:
The Indians were granted reservations.
Rome was granted the Vatican.
Before the fall of communism, the DDR was given to USSR control.
Palestine should be happy with their place, they never had an organized state. Now they want one. Things are fine as they are. They should only be granted freedom of movement once we know the terrorists are eradicated... but again, how would you know for sure?
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Pastor George Day
Allen Kumetz,
Last time I checked, the Indians received their own sovereign territories. They are self-governing reservations, internationally represented by the US. I don't think they are not left well off!
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Humanism Clergy Linda
IMO They are the same with violence. Most of the "Jewish" population are from European immigrants. UK are responsible for the state of Israel. 1947 Israel hasn't been around a long time.
Religion is responsible for war and hatred. Has been since the beginning of time.
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ServantOfJudgement
Someone should have let the atheist Chairman Mao know that before he murdered 50,000,000+ of his own people. Indeed, atheists were very busy last century being peaceful without religion.
Oh, the peaceful tranquility of 50 million dead, how nice the sunrise must look....
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Michael Hunt
Classic whataboutism from SOJ. Don't engage with the original comment, just deflect and say, "look, see this other bad person, that's the real big bad" so you don't have to acknowledge the centuries of death brought on by religious zealotry. Just point out that a non-religious authoritarian killed a bunch of people and pretend that religious leaders never did the same.
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ServantOfJudgement
No Michael, I'm correcting an inaccurate statement. Man is responsible for war and hatred. Religion can be a tool used by wicked men to justify the war and murder. It's not required though, not by any stretch. History is filled with vile men, some use religion, some use science, some use lust for power, some just like to kill.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Michael Hunt. Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mao. Castro. Pol Pot. Shall I go on. None of these killed in the name of religion. You're a little miscontrued.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Not true.
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Pastor George Day
Keith Allen Steele Eash,
You need to refer to the posters so we can understand what you claim isn't true :-)
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Pastor George Day
Humanism Clergy Linda,
Israel was kicked out of their land. They have a right to the land.
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Rev_Shaun
This will never stop until people stop believing stupid things.
To those who say this has nothing to do with religion, let me as you this. How is it that though the vast majority of Palestine was given to Jordan, there is not a similar conflict in that country? Could it have anything to do with the RELIGION the Jordanians follow as opposed to the one the Isrealis follow? Hmmmmm, I wonder!!!!
To return to the main point. The one factor present in these three so-called 'religions' is this; They all contain ideas, claims and concepts that if they were presented in any other context than religion, one would have no hesitation whatsover in dismissing them as utterly ridiculous and entirely stupid.
I mean, flying horses, virgin births, gods talking via burning bushes - be serious! This is the sort of stuff I would expect the six year olds in the youth group I used to run to come up with if I sat them round a camp fire late at night. Even the concept of 'god' is so barking mad and DAFT that you wonder why anyone could believe such an idea.
What people need to realise is that the ONLY thing that matters is PEOPLE. People matter, religions don't. once that happens, then we can move forward.
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Lionheart
Thank you, Sir Shaun, wise words indeed.
🦁❤️
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Alun Lloyd Palmer
It is about claiming land for a religion. I know why they did it, but it's discrimination.
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ServantOfJudgement
Rev Shaun,
I think the boys down in the lab made a mouse grow deer antlers.
https://www.fieldandstream.com/conservation/scientists-grow-antlers-mice-stem-cells/
They've also whipped up a mouse growing a human ear on its back.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacanti_mouse
I wonder how long it'll take those crazy kids to grow a horse with wings though God never made one I'm sure man will.
A friend of mine can't have kids but his wife cranked out 3 that look just like him. Why can man fertilize a human egg without intercourse but God can't? Do we know something about humans he doesn't?
Do you really think you're so smart as to understand the technology and techniques of an entity billions upon billions upon billions and beyond of years more advanced than you?
Even a 5 year old can understand that. You can understand that can't you?
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Pastor George Day
ServantOfJudgement,
These 'scientists' should be put in prison for what they do to these creatures!
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Sorry to say oh ye of little faith. Miracles happen. The Sun stood still today in Fatima with many witnesses in 1913.
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Pastor George Day
Keith Allen Steele Eash,
That was 13 October 1017, you just got the numbers mixed! It first happened in Joshua 10, when Joshua said: let the sun stand still. And the sun stood still :-)
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Pastor George Day
Rev_Shaun,
This is utter nonsense! Study the facts!
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Gerard Anthony Ritchie
The conflict is not about religion it is about land acquisition and suppression of the Palestine right to self-governance. Successive Israeli governments have been in breach of the Oslo Accords which were agreed to enable a transition to the creation of a self-governing Palestine nation state in the West Bank. Instead, Israel has defied international agreements and by their own admission have sought to balkanise the West Bank in a deliberate strategy of preventing the creation of a contiguous land area that would enable the creation of a Palastine nation state. They have also implemented a state of apartheid where cutizens of these balkanized islands of Palestine occupied land have to seek permission to move from one area to another and, therefore, are controlled by the Israeli state. Furthermore, Israel supports and promotes the development of illegal settlements in the West Bank in violation of international agreements. That is the background to the current conflict. The only way for the conflict to end is if Israel returns to obeying international agreements that it signed up to and works with goodwill and sincerity with Palestine to help them create their nation state. If Israel was to invest in Palestine, build hospitals, schools and create jobs and prosperity for the Palestine population then they would have much more to lose by supporting radical political groups. People don't become radicalised when they have a comfortable life. They become radicalised when they suffer from social injustice. As an example, consider the US just now. What is driving the current social unrest. It is a perception that lots of folk have been left behind. That their standard of living and their job prospects and their communities are declining. That there are 'elites' that are screwing rhem over. It is social justice issue. And, therefore they respond to the idea of someone telling them that they can make America Great Again. Someone that will reverse the social injustice they are feeling. And so it is with Palestine. Razing Gaza to the ground may satisfy the urge for revenge that is no doubt being felt in the heart of many Israelis just now but that will only feed the grievances that fuel terrorism. Israel has the power to resolve this conflict but only if it takes a long term view of focusing on creating a good neighbour and not trying to crush a troublesome enemy.
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ServantOfJudgement
Everything you said is wrong. The conflict has been going on since biblical times. You can read about it's history there.
You can tell who's in the wrong super easy. Just look for children getting beheaded and women in rape cages, those are the bad guys.
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Michael Hunt
Much of what Gerard has said is accurate SOJ. You're just a "free thinker" who chooses to believe whatever suits you. If everything he said was wrong, you could provide at least one reliable source that contradicts what he is claiming, but I doubt you could do that since, again, much of what he has stated is true.
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ServantOfJudgement
The Israelites believe God gave them the land with specific border they are not to expand. That's religion.
Hamas is commanded to exterminate the infidels that are the Israelites. That's religion.
Anything else is just fluffy words.
The end.
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Pastor George Day
ServantOfJudgement...
... and Iran is behind the whole thing!
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Catherine
The U.S. supports Iran. This is why I keep saying there are unanswered questions about a bigger picture full of details that most of us are unaware of.
Really, if you want evidence of that happening, learn about Edward Murrow and the Voice Of America. Though I admit it's uncomfortable knowledge to sit with, it shows a reality that should not be ignored by anyone interested in facts, however sorry.
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Pastor George Day
Catherine Colvin,
They all worship the Money God!
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Pastor George Day
Michael Hunt,
If you mean the Oslo Agreement that he mentioned and that was stipulated in 1993, then yes. He is correct. But he missed out by failing to add that those agreements never really came to a practical conclusion because of the complexity of the issues at stake. Gerald also fails to acknowledge that Israel is the one who has constantly been attacked. They have only been on the defensive mode, even by occupying lands. It is called PREVENTION.
There has never been an organized government among the Philistines. That is why they became part of Greater Syria when the Jews were exiled. By their very nature, these are WILD human beings!
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Alun Lloyd Palmer
No, everything Ritchie said was right.
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Pastor George Day
ServantOfJudgement,
He's one of those who decide peace dealings from a sitting room table! They have no idea who Israel is dealing with... maybe they will once we get another 9/11, God forbid!
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Catherine
@Gerard Anthony Ritchie
Thank you.
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Pastor George Day
Gerard Anthony Ritchie,
How do you make peace with people who do not want you to exist? Nice words, but very little practical knowledge of the facts.
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Mary Marsella
To say that the current Palestinian and Israeli conflict has deep historical roots is inaccurate. The problems started with the deals made after WWI, namely, with the Balfore Declaration, which conflicted with promises to Arabs who had supported the British and the Allies against Turkey, Germany and other members of the Axis that they would be stewards of their ancestral lands. The European promise to the Arabs that the end of the Ottoman Empire would lead to increased self-agency for Arabs and their newly formed territories - which the British and French designed - was not fully honored.
In addition, when after WWII, Israel declared itself a nation, and expanded the boundaries for a Jewish state beyond what was negotiated with the newly formed United Nations, there was much anger and resentment on the part of Arabs, who lost access and rites to contemporary and ancestral properties. That is, within days, homeowners and landowners lost their properties and had nowhere to go. In the meantime, European Jews who had survived the holocaust and also had lost their properties, multiple family members and no place to go, flocked to Israel, as Europe and the US, feeling deep shame, guilt and regret, supported them - and does so until today.
This is a simplified version of the history of the conflict, it and I urge anyone interested in learning more to study the impact of WWI as the catalyst for the conflict we see today, for it took place in the "modern" world with contemporary concerns of nationhood, human rights, genocide, imperialism, anti-semitism and Islamaphobia.
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Catherine
@Mary Marsella
Thank you. I'd read parts of what you described above, but had not read enough to put it all together as you did. That's the first time I've seen those all points connected.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Oh it does go way back to the Book of Judges. The Bible is a fairly accurate book of history as well. It's not just WW II. Really.
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Catherine
@Keith Allen Steele Eash
Who of us in the present is able to discern whether or not the bible gives a fairly accurate account of history? It is historical practice that the victors write or rewrite history which obviously allows for bias.
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Pastor George Day
Catherine Colvin,
There is historical evidence that says so. Do your research.
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Catherine
@Pastor George Day
King James rather forcefully had the bible edited to suit his wonts, did he not? Respectable scholarly experts say so, though it is epigraphers I give most attention.
Who is correct?
An entertaining and enlightening example is thoroughly researched, complete with a bibliography and references provided by Reverend Don Jacob in his book 'Astrology's Pew In Church'. He wrote it after discovering discrepancies between bibles and after a debate began in his church about the efficacy of astrology. Jacobs noticed predecessors of the KJV bible included references to what most of us refer to as astrology - not only astronomy.
Even Wikipedia has a nearly respectable reference to astrology being used by elites. Juicy details are buried in obscure texts, and those are equally entertaining to read in this day and time. The degree of control astrologers had over aristocracy and royalty is unimaginable in present times. In a nutshell, astrologers ruled, albeit a little behind the scenes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Lilly
The same elites who used astrologers for their own means, began informing the public that astrology was junk because it suited them. Though the average person was unlikely to be so educated as to become an astrologer, astrologers were at one time counselors to leaders. And anyone who could pay could receive an interpretation of positive or adverse influences and potentials. Today, financial astrologers are among the highest paid. Why would that be? Popes, as in the Catholic church, employ astrologers called mathematicians. Ha.
Though astronomy can be done without astrology, astrology cannot be done without astronomy. So, astrologers had greater knowledge than a mere astronomer who could not interpret influences of the movement of objects above and around us. Robert Carl Jansky (deceased; formerly employed by NASA) wrote an insightful read about that from a scientific perspective, called 'Interpreting The Eclipses'. The first few chapters are quite convincing on their own because he provides physical, tangible explanations relating to what we cannot see. Like air, we don't see it yet every moment - even before birth - we are affected by air.
I could go on about this particular history for awhile. It is especially interesting for many reasons. Political history of the differentiation of astrology from astronomy began more than several hundred years ago with controversy about whether or not our solar system was heliocentric or geocentric. Eventually, a king made known his preference and people who wanted to keep their heads intact agreed, setting the astrology world on its ear.
Back to William Lily for a skinny minute... he was friends with Balstrode Whitlocke, a legal advisor then. Neither were fans of Oliver Cromwell. Lily provided astrological advice to Whitlocke who then advised Cromwell in such a way that Cromwell made choices that brought about his demise.
That is one example of many, of how astrologers exercised influence.
Why King James would muzzle astrology is understandable. If you can't control a thing, control what controls that thing. Same as Henry the VIII made himself equal to God as supreme head of the church.
The point made is King James had mentions of astrology removed from his bible that he deemed to be harmful or useless to him, or helpful to those he did not want to have such help.
If only the removal of references to astrology in the bible represents an inaccuracy through omission, does that not bring other aspects of at least the KJV bible into question?
What are the odds that men who wrote the earliest bible up to the time of the KJV, did not write to suit themselves? There are numerous oddities about the KJV bible that are explained away by people who want the KJV to be the begin and end all of religious writings.
I think it's doubtful most religious writings are 100% historically accurate, even when translationally accurate.
Though I've not read every religious text that has been, so far Muhammad seems to have been most honest given likelihoods during his era. And though I'm cannot find evidence, it's been said the Qurʾān has been updated to suit the needs of people as times changed. That certainly cannot be said of the KJV. Which other religious texts do not suit the times in which we live?
Rigid pedagogues are not the last word and too often regurgitate or spin the words of other rigid pedagogues. The writers of religious texts will always say they are correct, though no amount of saying so, makes it so.
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Pastor George Day
Catherine Colvin,
Thank you very much for the time you have taken to give such detailed information :-)
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Catherine
@Pastor George Day
Are you rolling your eyes at me, sir? ^.^
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Pastor George Day
Catherine Colvin,
You have a lot of wisdom.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
the root of all evil is not money, it's religion. the differing comments here confirm that.
religion needs to be outlawed, or at least regulated so that it's invisible. worship whatever make believe hob goblin you choose, just keep it private and quite.
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ServantOfJudgement
I wish Stalin knew that when he chopped up 20,000,000 of his own people.
Make sure when you atheists outlaw religion like Stalin did you're at least nice about how all the believers are exterminated.-
Beth
Yes. Stalin was a brutal ruler. However, he did not do what he did in the name of atheism.
You also know that Stalin studied to become an Orthodox priest? He was hardly an atheist!
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ServantOfJudgement
Beth,
There are plenty of atheist priests, ya got some here. Nevertheless, atheists are well equipped to wage bloody and brutal wars regardless of their reasoning. Let's be fair to the truth. You want to blame religion, I want to show you otherwise. No reason is needed for mans heart to commit murder, we're just naturals at it.
Mankind is the common denominator of every single bloody & murderous rampage with as many reasons as there are men.
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Pastor George Day
Beth,
Oh well, as if that made a difference! Look what a nice person he became, priest or not!
I'm at a loss if you even mention that!
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Catherine
@ServantOfJudgement
I think religions became a tool abused by psychopaths and violent sociopaths. That organized religions have been been catalysts and drivers for many more wars than credited.
I think Stalin and those like him, were definitionally insane.
I think the world can only become more peaceful when enough least aggressive people exercise passive proaction by not joining uber wealthy crazies in their killing games.
Don't join religions that facilitate conflicts they profit from. Which religions have lobbyists and snuggle with 'public servants' to the detriment of humanity and all God's creations?
Don't join militaries because it is we who send ourselves and our children to be cannon fodder, directly or indirectly, for uber wealthy crazies who care little of what peacefully inclined individuals care about. Why would they care what our beliefs are as long as we remain malleable?
I think there are various ways to collectively withdraw individual support.
I think most of us are good people who don't want unnecessary conflict.
I think there is enough challenge living day-to-day without wars.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Peopke have a right to believe what they wish. But, as most Americans you don't understand the Mid East Conflict. It's not about religion. It's about those (the Palestinians and others who choose to not live in peace). It has nothing to do with religion. Islam is not a religion but a fascist philosophy that is political. They happen to use religion as a scapegoat. Since the indoctrination of Hitler's hatred became a major influence upon the Middle East in WW II it became worse. The Palestinians invaded the land of Israel and did nothing but harass the Jewish people for centuries until they united under a king. It's pretty much like the invasion of illegals. They're not wanted. They're not welcome. They came here for a hand out. We're turning into what they left thanks to Diaper Joe and his shadow Obama. We can feed the world but we sure in hell can't give everybody a job and a roof over their heads. Be realistic. You shoot an invading army. I can guarantee the majority harbor ill will towards America.
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Pastor George Day
Keith Allen Steele Eash,
I agree with most of what you said.
Palestinians are the descendants of the Philistines. For millennia they have been at war with Israel. Israel was kicked out by the Romans after the destruction of the Second Temple. The Philistines remained, but without a government. That is why that land was then denominated Syria Palestina (or Philistina). So, this is simply history repeating itself.
Israel has always had a government. Palestine never has.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
And who would outlaw it or whatch over it. Government bull manure. Religion is free and should be such. You abolish my faith and I'll do the same as Israel does.
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Pastor George Day
Rev. Dr. Father JJ,
I think you meant 'quiet.'
Why are you a reverend then?
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Theresa C. Marquess
Let us not imitate the Middle East in our own country. Yes, they have a great deal that could be lost, but so do we.
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ServantOfJudgement
It's probably too late Theresa. With the southern border open and millions of illegal unknowns already in country we can be sure there are plenty terrorists in country now. They swore to destroy us. They have to. They're not kidding no matter what people here believe.
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Pink Clover
There you go AGAIN with your racist propaganda. Jesus, if real, wasn't a white guy. You do know that, right? Such hatred coming from people like you. It's no wonder so many of us have left religion.
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ServantOfJudgement
Pink,
You can't be talking about me, I never said anything about race. What does the color of Jesus have to do with anything? The left is more preoccupied by race than any other group I've ever heard of. I dare say your racism is on par with the kkk.
If terrorists coming across the southern border is hateful, let homeland security know, they're the ones who said it. If you're not worried about it, you will be.
I don't have a religion, I have a relationship.
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Michael Hunt
You're statistically more likely to be murdered by a Christian nationalist American citizen than you are to be murdered by an illegal immigrant. You're just fearmongering and using minorities to do so. https://www.newamerica.org/future-security/reports/terrorism-in-america/what-is-the-threat-to-the-united-states-today/
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Theresa C. Marquess
I do agree with you, but we are Americans with a foundation in Revolutionary War History. If there is breath in our bodies we can stand up to whatever comes our way. What say you, Servant of Judgement?
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ServantOfJudgement
Teresa,
My family was sold to the colonies in 1747 by the English, thank God. Indeed, we know what it is to be free, God willing America's spirit of freedom will prevail, no matter what. Yes, you're right on.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
SOJ. FOR ONCE WE AGREE. Maybe we always have on most things. We are done for as a nation. Open borders will destroy us. Eventually the elites will lose out to. The masses will turn on them. The only solution I see is mow them down or enslave them.
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Pastor George Day
Keith Allen Steele Eash,
How Roman Catholic! Is that called Holy Inquisition?
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ServantOfJudgement
One side kidnaps, rapes, tortures, imprisons, burns alive, beheads, drowns in cages, forces women as rape slaves, guns down, kills children and has sworn to destroy the other side at all costs and never rest until they've done it.
One side sends rockets when their people are kidnapped, raped, tortured, imprisoned, burned alive, beheaded, drowned in cages, forced as rape slaves, gunned down, children are killed, and are endlessly exterminated by the other side.
Makes it super easy to see who the problem is does it not?
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Curtis W Miller
So violence justifies violence. Not exactly what Jesus taught.
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Lionheart
Who knows what Jesus ever really taught? Assuming that is, that he was real 🤷🏼
🦁❤️
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart,
There is plenty of evidence he existed.
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Lionheart
If he really existed, which is possible he did, I wonder what he ever really said, or taught, being as everything was written by people that never met him. 🤔
🦁❤️
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart,
That is not true. Do your research.
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ServantOfJudgement
Hard to accept there's a problem side isn't it? Jesus most certainly directed us to defend ourselves with zero doubt.
If someone fight you personally, you can either attempt to flee, be destroyed or fight back. If you flee and they pursue you, you can either be destroyed or defend yourself. Some people definitely choose to be destroyed. The Israelites will never choose that, they will choose self defense all day long. They have had the world against them far too long to lay down and die.
As I said, it's super easy to see who the bad guys are.
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Alun Lloyd Palmer
There are two problems. One, Israel has far more capacity to harm Gaza than vicea versa. Two, attacking civilians is considered a war crime, even though the areas they are attacking were parts of Gaza that have been annexed by Israel.
You can't expect people to live under blockade without them fighting back, and that's what this is. CBS news is lying by saying that these are the first bombings of Gaza by Israel. There's no truth in that atall. Israel regularly bomb Gaza. But people are surprised that they fight back? Of course this will bring worse attacks by Israel, but with what Israel is already doing what are they supposed to do? If you were living under such conditions would you consider dying fighting? As opposed to just dying anyway?
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Oh you are so full of it. Israel is constantly in a state of war. If you have an enemy at your gates terrorizing the people then you kill when you find where they are. It just happens to always be in areas where non combatants live. Hamas uses the people as a cover. They are hostages in their own homes. And they don't have the balls to fight the Hamas themselves because they in turn will be killed. Hamas is only about power. That's all. You need to separate the people from Hamas. Hamas doesn't represent the Palestinian people. But, although I call those not Hamas as innocents there really are no innocents. Hamas has these people divided and right where they want them. Totally controlled and lied to and deceived. And if the people resist Hamas they kill them. It's a vicious cycle. The blame goes back to Hitler when he did everything to increase hatred towards the Jews in Israel during WW II. He had plenty of agents in Palestine then.
You are basically supporting terrorists with your post. In no circumstances can Hamas be given any compassion for the atrocities carried out in the last 48 hours. I wonder personally whether they haven't gotten alot of their training recently by ISIS since they're using ISIS tactics. Totally barbaric. And then resorting kidnapping and the threat of killing them being televised. And you have the audacity basically to kind of support them. My position would be to turn on Hamas.-
Catherine
@Keith Allen Steele Eash
Are you familiar with Voice Of America? Ed Murrow, perhaps too effective as an investigative journalist, was 'somehow' convinced to be the first.
Asking because much of what Americans hear is propaganda from our government, intended to influence us to sway this way or that.
Larger point is we are not in Gaza or Palestine. We only know what we're told by our government. As I understand how it works, other (most or all?) countries are similarly managed.
There is a middle between extremes. The most aggressive radical pot stirrers and definitional murderers, in my opinion, from both or all sides are equally liable for conflict. In the middle, there is the majority of people who simply want to be allowed to live in peace.
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Alun Lloyd Palmer
What you say is true up to a point. However, in Palestine those people of the middle ground face daily persecution by Israel for just being who they are.
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Catherine
I hear you. I think it's beyond sad. And how could their family members on the attacking side want this?
There's more to the matter than meets the eye.
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Pastor George Day
Alun Lloyd Palmer,
This is not true. There are no Jews in Gaza, and as far as the West Bank, those territories were occupied because of the Six Day War - which Israel never started!
Israel was more than happy with a two-state solution to begin with, as far as the Ozlo negotiations. The Palestinians were hard to please! Then there you go!
Go back and check your history book.
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ServantOfJudgement
Alun,
If the Palestinians had a nuke they'd use it.
They won't stop until Israel is eradicated. They say that, why don't you guys believe their own words? You guys are so very naive.-
Catherine
@ServantOfJudgement
Do you consider all Palestinians are radicals? I think most are not. What are the odds that a majority of radicals are all in Palestine?
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Pastor George Day
Catherine Colvin,
Well, yes. That is a naive statement. I think it appears clear you have never met any Palestinians in your life!
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Catherine
@Pastor George Day
I have. And Afghanistans. Iraquis. Chinese. Iranians. And others. That is why I think as I do.
Isn't it leaders who create strife? Don't we all suffer the consequences of our leader's actions?
In the U.S. as we speak, a world war has been evolving while most of us are sleeping through it. Maybe it's too big a picture for certain people to see up close?
We see more clearly, the small stuff in front of us. Some of us choose to be shortsighted because that's easier than admitting an uncomfortable, frightening, reality. Willful ignorance and willful shortsightedness can be as dangerous as any violent radical, yes? Death and misery comes from both, yes?. Perhaps with less notoriety. Nonetheless, people die unnecessarily as a result of either.
Do you think only one group starts and ends any fight?
Again, I think most people are not interested in fighting and prefer peace.
I think even the most stridently religious come to understand religions are used to keep us divided and at each others' throats. The wisest promote tolerance and acceptance to live side-by-side and mean it.
I think, because as with much of living, it is easier to bark and bite at smaller things after becoming too hurt and broken to address or cope with big things that bring about misery.
Being better people where we stand can fade away when faced with extreme pressures. Spike Lee's movie, 'Do the Right Thing' sums the disease world leaders keep alive.
Isn't up to not-the-leaders to be less supportive of politics that use religions against us all?
Instead, too often hope for better gives way to anger and pain of transgressions we did not catalyze. It's easy to consider how a revenge mindset builds that takes the place of peace that was or might have been. That's a symptom of a global disease.
Considering Dunbar's number with the fact that organized religions push having more children than a society - and those religions - can or will care for, to build numbers in terms of how many believe and will follow their leaders, I think organized religions are mostly responsible for the most seriously ills being experienced globally. People are not built for living on top of each other and not having sufficient space to be self-sufficient. Organized religions create and do their best to maintain unhealthy co-dependencies.
Looked this up because I was curious about the percentage of psychopaths in the world. Just one estimate, though personal experience would say it must be close enough.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-social-thinker/201801/3-key-characteristics-psychopathy
"Research suggests that 1 percent of the population meets the criteria for psychopathy. That may not sound like a lot, but it means that 1 in every 100 people you know is a psychopath."
Since the most aggressive rise with least impedance, my guess is most of the violence-oriented radicals in the world gather together as leaders. While somewhat presumptive, is that logic entirely unreasonable?
A paper I read years ago, compared differences between inmates and 'big money' entities. The primary difference being an ability to persuade and not get caught. I think the worst kind of psychopaths are not incarcerated and where are they most likely to appear? Which arena will they best thrive in?
Setting aside that all in the confines of Palestine were or are not Palestinian and some are children so young they cannot be more than cannon fodder, do you feel it is likely that Palestinians alone are so exceptional as to be the majority of the world's most violent radicals? If likely, the entire world would benefit if Palestine were leveled. If not likely, then what?
I won't side with anyone or any group that I am not personally very familiar with. That is to say, wherever they may be and however they came to be what they are, I do not defend violent radicals because those people are so broken as to be entirely dysfunctional.
What to do about that? I don't know. I do know I won't become them. Neither will I fan flames that promote violence, or throw words that create smoke to obscure reasonable logic, or hide facts and a reality many prefer to ignore.
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Pastor George Day
Catherine Colvin,
Again, thank you for sharing all this. I appreciate the time it took you :-)
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Pastor George Day
ServantOfJudgement,
It's not 'naive.' They call it 'politically correct'!
They would be if they were in the Middle East. There is nothing wrong if they like it not! They just blow your brain!
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Melodie Marie Anderson
That right there is completely wrong. Hamas is nothing more than a political terrorist group formally known as The Islamic Resistance Movement. Just think about who they are, no one is going to change their mind or be able to convince them to stop. These are people that can cut the heads off babies, kill the elderly in sub human ways and rape young girls violently. Do you really think that all of this isn’t warranted by Israel, that Hamas has never done this before? Anyone that can do what Hamas has done and will continue to do should be wiped if the face of this earth.
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Catherine
@Melodie Marie Anderson
Hamas is funded by multiple countries who sided with Palestine.
Not only Hamas kills as you described. That is an historical world wide fact.
Possibly because Palestine is not a country and not part of a country - as was Israel until recently - Israel has multi-international support to claim Palestine land before another country does so. Why international support against such a tiny area? If it were only because of a single terrorist group, the U.S., Israel, and other countries have the means to wipe it out. Why hasn't that happened?
Aside from profiting from this conflict, there are too many questions without reasonable answers.
There's a lot of dust flying. Without being inside of what is happening, an accurate accounting and conclusion is difficult to ascertain.
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Pastor George Day
Catherine Colvin,
You use very Westerner eloquent politically correct words with no basis linked to reality, I'm afraid.
How exactly do you eradicate an organization that is headquartered at civilian sights, with most compartments underground?
And how do you make peace with a nation that does not want you to exist?
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
To Mr.. Palmer. Gaslighting. You blame Israel for violence. How many times has Israel said to these animals lay down your arms and there will be peace. Never happens. Then when they appease these animals they demand more. Isreal doesn't go around chopping heads off and murdering and raping little children. ISIS has actually eaten them. I say no to terrorism period. And to the innocents they are too.stupid to realize they're being used. Who in their right mind would strap a bomb on their children and send them to blow up a bus as they've done in the past. Anyone in here who defends these barbarian jerks needs their head examined. As Israel gas said about the Holocaust :NEVER AGAIN! OR WE WILL INIATE SAMSON'S OPTION. THAT MEANS WIPE OUT THE TERRORISTS AND THEMSELVES RATHER THEN LIVE THROUGH ANOTHER GENOCIDE.
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Alun Lloyd Palmer
It's more like lay down your arms and we will order you about and control your lives. Wipe out Hamas and sooner or later some other Palestinians will get fed up with the constant abuse they get from Israel. It can't be fixed that way, only by giving Palestine their freedom.
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ORDM Genie G
Are you aware that Hamas also bombs Israel regularly? Less Israelis die only because they invested in bomb shelters and anti missile technology and not tunnels into Gaza to terrorize its citizens.
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James Mounts
To quote a great governor, "It behooves the Jews and the Arabs to settle their differences in a Christian manner.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
In a Christian manner usually means war. But, who has really ever lived by Christ's teachings proclaiming to be Christian. Basically, what I'm saying is no nation has ever really lived up to a Christian manner.
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Catherine
@Keith Allen Steele Eash
That is a fact and a sorry commentary on human 'evolution'.
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James Mounts
It was a joke. A quote from "Best Little Whorehouse in Texas"...a comedy. You see, neither Jews nor Moslems are Christian.
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Catherine
Which Jews are we discussing?
Orthodox Jews do not recognize the new testament, therefore are not Christian.
There are Messianic Jews, who are not recognized as real Jews, who believe in Christ as Christians do.
Consider also, that Jewish families in Palestine and Gaza have been forcefully divided. That the same or different beliefs can exist among Jews from both sides.
Perhaps what @Najah P Tamargo Oct 09, 2023 at 04:35 pm described above is similar to what you intended?
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Pastor George Day
Catherine Colvin,
We Messianic Jews do not need recognition from the Orthodox or anyone to say we are Jews. We simply are!
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Catherine
@Pastor George Day
I didn't get the 'joke' : . )
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Pastor George Day
Catherine Colvin,
We understand Orthodox Jews do not recognize us as real Jew, but again they don't recognize Yeshua as the real Messiah. So, it works both ways, really.
We Messianic Jews are Jewish followers of Yeshua.
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Pastor George Day
... and Yeshua is a Jew :-) !
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Najah P Tamargo
Minister Najah Tamargo USA
This is a question almost as old as time. I seriously DO NOT feel that violence is the answer to any problem. But since this has been going on long before Jesus was even born, I do believe that Faith has to be the answer. It is up to the FAITHFUL and the PEACEFUL leaders to come together to solve this age old problem. I think a resolution could be reached if everyone is willing to make a few concessions. They just have to be willing to compromise. I understand that for these particular groups compromise is comparable to a sin. They have to get past all that and do what is best for their future generations.
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Catherine
In deed.
That applies to most of the world's leaders, were they truly leaders of their people(s) and less materialistic and power fanatics.
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Steven Ferrell
That is a wonderful thought, but one that will never be achieved. I am glad that God gave man freedom of choice, but that too comes with a curse.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Concessions have bern made with every peace agreement. Then the Palestinians come back with violence to demand more. Enough is enough. No more appeasement. No.more concessions.
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Pastor George Day
Keith Allen Steele Eash,
You are right. As I also said before, they think they are entitled to get even with the Jews for their own misery.
They never had a state in the first place. Now there is one, and they want their own.
They used to be part of Syria! They should go back there!
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Pastor George Day
Najah P Tamargo,
There is only a tiny practical problem:
we Jews view the future as MOVING ON from the past;
Palestinians and Arabs view the future as GETTING EVEN about the past.
That's a BIG stumbling block!
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Lionheart
It’s religion, they are all the same. All of them saying their God is great. 🤷🏼
Christians did it back in medieval times. If you didn’t toe their line you were branded a Witch/Heathen and deserved to die.
It’s what all religions do best. They all divide everyone, all claiming they are love and peace, while ignoring the atrocities they caused, and then claiming their god is love. It’s actually quite sickening. Religion is the curse of mankind.
🦁❤️
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Dr Asha Sharma
The learned know that there is one almighty omnipresent one known by many names, and also know that we are all the same species Human that come in any colors sizes and chose to worship the one almighty omnipresent one in different ways. All this discord is do to over infatuated EGOs which factors in an inhuman and lower animal tendencies. May the one almighty omnipresent one give knowledge to all humans who believe in GOD.
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Lionheart
I saw your spelling mistake. I knew you meant to say the “unlearned”. 🤭
The unlearned want to believe lots of things with no demonstrable evidence. That is why they remain unlearned, and believe in myth and fairy tales. Religious indoctrination can be so cruel.
🦁❤️
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
So there's nothing to learn beyond what you know LH? Nothing to learn beyond what is already known?
How very fundamentalist of you. If science worked like you think, we never would have gotten beyond harnessing fire.
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Lionheart
No, Sir Kenneth. There are plenty of things to learn beyond what we already know. That’s what science is all about. We are constantly learning by using logic, reason, and critical thought. No hairy fairy “faith” stuff. We learn from solid demonstrable evidence to determine truth. That’s how science works.
🦁❤️
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
I agree faith is a lousy substitute for knowledge - but it's also true that a lot of scientific discoveries were made because the scientists had faith in what they might find.
I agree science has a lot yet to discover - that it's possible the truth may even redefine science. I think it's possible the human perspective itself could learn a few lessons. I'm glad you agree we still have things to learn - I'm just thinking the reason they remain to be learned is perhaps because we aren't asking the right questions.
I'm just saying let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. It's true there are many abuses of the imagination, but it's also true that we've come so far only because we dared to imagine - and to look and to see.
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart,
I'm still praying for your 'reversion'! You know what I mean :-)
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
That is the most stupid statement ever made. It has little to do with religion. More to do with covenants or what was birth rights. Of course it's covered in Scripture but really has nothing to do with the religious aspect. Goes all the way back to Jacob stealing Esau's birth right being the first born. The story just coincides with what God had planned. And if you don't think these things aren't prophesied they are whether you believe or you don't.
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Lionheart
That’s ok, Sir Keith. The supposed “scriptures” that you like to call them, contain many self fulfilling prophesies. The Mormon “scriptures” do the same thing, as does the Quran, but of course, your book contains the real ones…..right? 🤭
Please carry on believing in your God that has a big thing about foreskins. 🤣
🦁❤️
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart,
If you just took the time to dig for evidence, you would see that all the prophecies connected with the non-Fall Moadim have been fulfilled meticulously. Unfortunately, the same isn't true for the Book of Mormon and the Quran.
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ServantOfJudgement
The atheist loves bloody wars just as much as the next guy. Last century they dinged us for 100 million souls, ot thereabouts.
Since recorded history there he been about 250 years total where there were no wars between one nation and another. It's a human problem lionheart, not a religious problem. People just love to kill too much to put the hatchet down.
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Beth
Nearly all of those wars were fought because somebody had resources of some type that the rulers of the other side wanted to control for themselves. It's pretty hard to convince people to fight and die for your wealth. It's a lot easier to convince them if you tell them that "those people" are against God, and you have to fight on God's side.
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Lionheart
Are you referring to that German guy that was raised Catholic?
I do agree with you though, man’s in humanity to man, which involves religion, is a human problem.
🦁❤️
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Has nothing to do with religion like you hate Christians because they believe in something you can't give your heart to. You want to see a miracle, but you wouldn't believe anyway. So you choose to bash and hate.
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Lionheart
I merely use logic and reason, Sir Keith. I don’t hate Christians, I hate the indoctrination and dogma of all religions that are based on only faith, and that’s all religions, not just yours. I see it as mental cruelty to indoctrinate young children’s minds with rubbish that is based on faith. That’s where the problem lies, as is now evidenced by the Gaza-Israeli war by indoctrinated children that have now become grown bloodthirsty adults. I’m sorry you don’t see it that way. And the reason you don’t is because your cerebrum has become infected by the God Virus, which is very hard to recover from, but it is possible.
🦁❤️
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart,
I wonder what they did to you at church!
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Lionheart
It’s very simple, Sir George, it was the same thing that others are subjected to, it’s called “indoctrinate”.
Fortunately, I had the mental acuity to use logic, reason, and critical thought, to get out and cure myself from the God Virus. 🦠 Many are still afflicted, poor things.
🦁❤️
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart,
That must have been a real trauma! :-)
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Lionheart
Thanks, I got through it. Unfortunately, many are still suffering from it.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
People who have no faith are the scourge of mankind. The other scourge are those who become fanatics. I am not a fanatic but I will defend my property, my life and the lives of my family and friends and my church.
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Lionheart
Most people have faith of something, Sir Kenneth. I have faith when I cross the road that I will get to the other side, but that’s usually after I have checked both ways to see if it’s good to cross the road.
Religious faith is the problem and the root of all evil. When you say you will defend your church, you are saying, and doing, no more than those who defend their church and what they profess to believe. Islamists defend their “church” ie, it’s dogma related to what they are taught, fundamental or not. The Christian faith went through the same issues back in the days of the inquisition. They wanted to defend their church and its belief structure…..all based on faith. 🤷🏼
🦁❤️
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Catherine
@Keith Allen Steele Eash
Only people do not share your faith are a scourge? Or anyone who doesn't abide by religious practices is a scourge?
Who decides?
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Not true at all Colvin. You like to read things that aren't even what I said. Learn to read please. I am one of Dr biggest defenders of tolerance, but I can't tolerate Muslims who kill for the pleasure of killing. Israel doesn't do that. Islam never has been or never will truly be a peaceful religion because it's not a religion. It's a fascist political ideology. Yes there are individuals who are peaceful but the institution itself is fanatical.
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Dr Asha Sharma
Comment removed by user.
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart,
Christianity has nothing to do with what's going on in the Holy Land.
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Tareq Asfour
In actuality, it’s God’s curse on everybody who claims to be Israelites, like the Europeans Ashkenazi khazarians converted to religion of Judaism. In actuality, Israelite’s people of could be traced to Banu Qurayza were a Jewish tribe which lived in Jerusalem and Arabia at the oasis of Medina (previously known as Yathrib) who are not white skinned as real Arab Jewish people who are descendants Arabian,Yemenis,Iranian,Iraqi,Syrian,african,Palestinian,Lebanese, Jordanian, Egyptian are able to traced to millions of families members who converted to christianity and islam.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but this is just stupid. The Israelites were clearly where they were at over 2200 years before Christ and had the Golan Heights and half of Jordan and over 100 miles east from the dead sea. And all of your claimed people did not exist before 1942, in fact the fictional Palestinian people in every library in the middle east are called BEDOUINS This is a historical fact. heck even the The Mesha Stele stone located in the Royal Library of England in London clearly states that the Kings of Egypt did battle with Israel and placed its location directly where it is now. I dont know where you received your information from tareq, but its not correct and history clearly shows it isnt.
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Catherine
@Daniel Gray
Current DNA based migration does not agree with you.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but yet again you are wrong, if you want to make this claim then show your proof. I wont hold my breath waiting
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Catherine
@Daniel Gray
If you want to be convinced, research it yourself. We usually tend to find what we look for, yes?
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Daniel Gray
I did research it for myself, and I took documentation from the UN when they remade the country of Israel. As well as from the libraries in Egypt-Jordan-Syria-Saudi Arabia and a few other countries and they ALL say that the proper name for these people is BEDOUIN.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
So wrong Daniel. Bedouin are Arabs who choose to to live in the old ways as shepherds. And the Bedouin tribes gave always helped Israel.
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Daniel Gray
So correct there keith. so it seems now you are calling all the libraries in the Middle East liars now because they dont fit your agenda?
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Catherine
@Daniel Gray
What you described is a small group of people entirely makes up another much larger group.
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Daniel Gray
No I describe what is fact, unlike you
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Pastor George Day
Catherine Colvin,
Syria Palestina has NEVER been a country. That is why the Palestinians were called Bedouins. It was a primitive way of life, with no government.
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Catherine
Bedouins are a small group of Palestinians. Not all Palestinians are Bedouin.
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Daniel Gray
Completely wrong and all the libraries in the middle east say as much as well.
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Catherine
@Daniel Gray
What a load of misinformation. Beginning to consider you are a paid propagandist.
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Daniel Gray
And by spouting all your misinformation, its clear that YOU are the paid propagandist.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
I beg to differ with you sir. Bedouins are a separate group of Islam. And for your information have usually supported Israel because they are not terrorists. They are shepherds who want to live as they have for many centuries. The Bedouins are normally very peaceful Muslims . The Palestinians are boat people who migrated to Israel centuries ago. They they were called Philistines.
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Daniel Gray
and yet the books in the libraries in the middle east make this claim
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Pastor George Day
Keith Allen Steele Eash,
Bedouins were in that land living with no government. Palestinians were the same. So, did they live together? Go figure!
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Tareq Asfour
You can believe me or not I don’t care, have over 1 billion followers worldwide, As being known tribal leader & tribal historian for our 1.2 million strong men AL Asfour’s relatives scattered around world who we 6000 years of written history belonging to Philistine’s🇯🇴🇵🇸,Phoenicians🇱🇧🇸🇾 & the African Arab Israelites who intermarried into both the Philistines Phoenician of the Levant Canaan. Our AL Asfour’s families women practiced polytheism of BAAL as AL Asfour’s is one main families of Banikhalid’s of the largest Banu Qurayza Jewish Tribe of Arabia pre islamic times still in existence, even if divided by UN,British & France, soon the Levant Canaan Palestine,Syria,Lebanon,Jordan & Arabia will all return back erasing all the division lines by the UN,British,France,Ibn Saud traitors who really sold us out the Banikhalids as they are now worried as hell as like their cousins Bahraini who part of Ibn Saud who stole our lands from us with UN,British,France help. We will get everything back as having a strong support from our families and 3 major foreign countries with nuclear capability docked within Syria and Turkey. Im praying for President Biden to open his eyes to see the real truth, before he does anything stupidly foolish…America needs to step back and down, we have many relatives trying desperately to ask for American citizens to be released, but sadly nobody cared about any American Arab Palestinian citizens who were killed by Israeli soldiers & killing of American girl Rachael Corrie by Israeli soldiers & nobody cared about Israeli killing of Americans military on USS Liberty either. Its a very dangerous situation & the whole Middle East & Arabia never been peaceful anyhow because the gates of hell has always been there most cursed place on earth full of bloodshed….
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Lionheart
The efficacy of prayer has long been proved to be false, and so attempting to pray for President Biden will fall on his deaf ears.
If he continues to be just as ineffective, by preventing illegal immigrants entering this country, this current world shattering situation it’s going to get rapidly worse, especially those countries that have imported illegal radical Islamists, and that includes the United States.
🦁❤️
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart,
As controversial as it sounds, I agree 100% with your last paragraph.
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Catherine
@Tareq Asfour
Friendly and not-so-friendly power and money brokers invest in multiple sides of conflicts. They have too much to lose to allow anyone to win.
What you seem hopeful for, is equivalent to unraveling British influence in India. Or Norman influence in England.
England had a questionable win, I think. More people currently live there with Norman and Scandinavian ancestry, than Angles and Saxons who formed what became England. An entire country assimilated by former enemies.
And constant conquests continue.
I think a true victory works for all involved.
I think with currencies nearing the point of becoming digital, a whole new set of possibilities is developing that will not consider spirituality, faith, and doctrines.
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Daniel Gray
you have not anywhere close to 1 billion followers except in your own fantasy. And if you try and continue to make that fantasy claim then I suggest you prove it
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Tareq Asfour
Look up the five main families of Bani Khalid tribes who was senior commander during the time of last prophet in Islam.
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Daniel Gray
I did and it does not confirm the fantasy of your post.
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ORDM Genie G
@Tareq - what? 🤯
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Daniel Charles Blecha
Do you really believe in curses...
The truth if ever admitted is the western powers ( led by England) played the "divide & always control" so they created a nation where they knew forever world be hate & war hence Arabs versus Jewish people... keeps them 2nd rate so no threat to England power.
Isreal should have been placed in Montana, somewhere in Canada or far out area in Australia... never in middle of everything, everyone seems as " the place".
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ServantOfJudgement
Tareq,
The more I read your posts the more it seems like you're a member of The Black Hebrew Israelites.
Am I correct?
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Catherine
@ServantOfJudgement
The history @Tareq Asfour related is nowhere near the same as any recently evolved group.
Power shifts. People shift.
Movement of different peoples across land masses 1,000, 2,000 to thousands of years ago, is nothing like our here and now. Add assimilation of people and cultures, and really much of the world becomes a melting pot.
Eras describe who was where and when. In the present, we are too close to the forest to see the trees, so to speak.
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Catherine
@ServantOfJudgement
I will add being Jewish means different things to different groups of Jews. And being Jewish - as a practice - cannot be defined by DNA, though DNA research does track migration.
Movement of Jewish peoples is well explained above by the writer beginning with, "Ancient Historical Roots".
As for Tareq Asfour possibly being of the Black Hebrew Israelites aka Hebrew Israelite movement, how is that relevant to this discussion? Might as well say you're judging someone's opinion to be more or less valid because of skin color. Is your opinion more or less valid because of your skin color?
What if he is not Jewish, merely stating an understanding?
Why not discuss substantive points?
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ServantOfJudgement
Catherine,
Tareq, a believer in a creator contradicts the bible nearly always in all threads and I wanted to understand his viewpoint, where he's getting his information. I'd asked him before but he didn't answer me so I began analyzing his posts with what I know about the various flavors of creator believing people to determine his viewpoint. I was very very close. Now I know his perspective.
This is how people communicate. If we don't know someones perspective we won't have very much success. This is the reason I questioned him, to understand him.
Like clockwork you've judged me in hypocrisy as my Lord Jesus said you would. He's remarkably accurate in all things. You assumed I was concerned about his skin color while I was concerned with his perspective.
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Catherine
@ServantOfJudgement
You chose your words. May be, you don't realize how your words sound to other people?
Jesus told you I would judge you in hypocrisy? ^ . ^
Why do you care if someone who believes differently than you, contradicts the bible? That might naturally be expected partly or entirely.
Your ad hominem approach lacks substance.
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ServantOfJudgement
Catherine,
You could be right, probably are. My words aren't being read the way I say them. Some I know they're received the right way though. I'm not being sarcastic, I really think you could be right about this, just ask my HR lady, lol.
In other threads he said Jesus was real but wasn't crucified but would never tell me where he read that claim. He seemed christian-ish. That's a huge life changing claim about Jesus, is it not? I was very curious so in the absence of his input I tried to figure out what he was talking about. Maybe he's right, maybe I'm wrong or visa versa. I just want to know truth, that's all. The information claimed by him led me to the Black Hebrew Israelites or as you called them Hebrew Israelites. Most call them the former.
I'm here to learn about people and their perspective. I'm labeled by you guys but if my posts were considered as I consider yours maybe we could understand one another in a good way. Not in a way to reinforce our assumptions and presumptions. My opposition here has altered my viewpoint from when I first joined, towards their perspective at times. Conversely, my opposition has also confirmed things often said about anti Christian people. As I said, I'm looking for truth as a flawed human that knows he's flawed.I've actually agreed with my oppositions perspective at times, said I agree and they return with an attack of my statement of agreement. It's mind boggling and fascinating.
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Catherine
@ServantOfJudgement
I have to back the truck up constantly. Even here, where I can edit before posting. It's worse when I don't write because then it's, "what I meant was" which can be annoying and lead to confusion after an impression is already made with previous words.
I think most people, maybe all, have a tendency to put people in a fixed place for sake of understanding. That's necessary to get a thing done. Sometimes, we have to be on the same page.
Still, adaptation is part of how we grow, resistance being another part. We're always changing on the fly.
I think each of us being more or less aware of living in that state, is where we bump into each other. Life's a journey, not an end result. We don't need to be on the same page to do things every living being must, like breath.
However, when it comes to the how, what, why, when, and where of things, it's almost like people skid around like bumper cars on ice.
I grew up mostly attending Southern Baptist Churches. I've been to a couple sleepy types of a denomination I don't recall. Catholic, with neighbor's kids. Protestant, Episcopal, Pentecostal, and Lutheran. Some of which practiced glossolalia.
What I remember most as a child through teens, was how much and how people were the same in face of differing beliefs. And as a young child, some of these churches were outright scary. No one explained glossolalia to me. I watched a woman hold her infant over her head then drop it. Someone closer than me caught the baby before hitting the floor. No one blinked.
I have issues with that.
I don't think any almighty God or gods would will an infant to be harmed. I imagine if Jesus saw such a thing, he'd have a few things to say.
That's where I was with that sort of thing then and now. While some things change, others don't.
I noticed a lot of adults shared in common - no matter what faith they believed in - incessant one-upping with self-righteousness. I watched adults manipulate each other and us kids, though I didn't think of it quite like that then. I only knew something wasn't quite right and didn't think Jesus would think much of how they treated people.
All this to say, after several decades of learning about religions and observing people, I think a lot of us waste time concerning ourselves with what has nothing to with becoming the best possible representation we can personally manifest.
On the other hand, maybe stumbling and blundering is how we get there.
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ServantOfJudgement
Catherine,
Those things you said make sense to me. That pairs with what you've said elsewhere, that religious organizations can draw fanaticism and produce some bizarre and lethal actions. Anywhere people group there's a risk of a power play and the funky stuff that comes with power plays. Churches are not excluded nor exclusive to this. I've never found one I can plug into without a bunch of luggage I don't think Jesus would be down with. I'm not a squeaky wheel, not one to want to change anybody really. If a Church or company or group gets weird I just fall off without a peep.
One time God answered a desperate financial prayer of mine within a few minutes of praying while driving home from a second job. My wife and I were in serious trouble, really bad. I got a phone call for work out of state that earned me 10k for 3 days of weekend work. I donated 10% to a local church and once they figured out who gave it, they sure visited me then I'll tell ya. Only after my money came were they worried for my well being. Don't get me wrong that church definitely does good for the community but it was mighty poor form was it not?
I'm better of at home with the sweet and fair mrs SOJ.
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Pastor George Day
Catherine Colvin,
I like your thoughtfulness very much. You consider your words carefully and know what you are saying. But can I correct you on one thing?
The ancient Canaanite gods accepted infant sacrifice. This has been archaeologically established - which goes to say why YHWH gave their land to Israel. It belongs to them :-)
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Tareq Asfour
We AL Asfour’s of Banikhalid tribe have black Hebrew Israelites, Muslim & Catholic family members intermarried together, personally have 4 wives 2 are muslim,1 is jewish and last is catholic and they’re free to practice their faith peacefully without any interference or restrictions from me or my family members ever, which many Americans can’t understand because they keep listening the wrong crowd especially the zionist protestants christians of America who is allow to fabricate their own religious man made doctrines
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Pastor George Day
Tareq Asfour,
And which faith precisely are you and your tetra wife family bringing up your children?
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Daniel Gray
He has just been proved false by his own words. NOWHERE in Europe or in the Americas is it allowed to have more then one wife as he claims. And he also claimed to have over 1 billion followers. Really? then I guess that makes him (in his own words and claims) the leader of the 3rd largest religion in the world. I's sorry but I just cant figure out if he is delusional or if he is posting fantasies to get someone to respond to him
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Tareq Asfour
Comment removed by user.
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ServantOfJudgement
Tareq,
Actually this is the results of Israel not exterminating the wicked Philistines as commanded. Now these people are cutting the heads off of Israel's women and children.
Nothing to do with someone claiming to be an Israelite. You'll find no such thing in the bible.
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Rev. MichaelRS
If the people of Gaza and other Palestinians are going to suffer they have no one to blame but Hamas
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Janine Marrie Pool
Comparing BLM to Hamas is shameful. Educate yourself. Saying Palestinians are responsible for not changing the system is ignorant. Look at your language: calling people animals, and advocating their deaths/ are you serious? Israelis have a simple right to life, on land they stole no less, but Palestinians don’t? And you call yourself a Christian then ironically say religion has nothing to do with it? Stop being part of the problem.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
If you knew history the Jewish People did not steal the land from the slugs thatived thete. They did nothi.g with the land. The Philistines stole and robbed the Jewish peopke through out history while they lived under the Judges. The land was given to the Jews. God took it from them. He said he'd bring them back. He did. You xan deny this but history in my opinion has proven God exists and fulfills his prophetic Word. When a human being kills innocent children , women's men because they are of a certain culture you don't deserve to be called a human being. The Palestinians have denied their humanity too many times. They are animals, especially now using tactics of ISIS. And the Palestinians allowing themselves to be used as shields are just as guilty. No blame lies on the Jewish people. This is their land and birthright. The Palestinians that are Islamic are migrants who over in and have always been a knife in the back of the Jewish people. And as I have said I believe in what Hannah Arendt said in "Eichmann in Jerusalem" that if a peopke doesn't wish to share the world with you then we choose to not share the world with you since you wish to kill us. And Golda Mier said it even better. One Jewish life is worth more then 1000 Muslims. They wish to kill Jews and Christians, then they have forfeited their humanity. And there are no innocents. Remember they strapped bombs on kids for money from Hussein. That is not human. That's worse then animals. They are demons.
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Pastor George Day
Keith Allen Steele Eash,
I am a Messianic Jew. I wouldn't be as vehement as you sound, but I agree with most of what you said.
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ServantOfJudgement
Janine,
They are indeed animals. They cut the heads off babies. They cut babies from the stomach of pregnant women to cut the babies head off. Women are put in cages to rape again and again. Prisoners are drowned in cages and burned alive. They're disgusting animals.
Anyone who supports those evil animals is the same, that means the comfortably numb flying pig Roger Waters and BLM.-
Michael Hunt
So all Palestinians are animals? That's pretty xenophobic SOJ. If you wanted to call Hamas animals for their horrific actions I would not disagree with you but you seem to be lumping all Palestinians in with religious extremists. As someone who likes to claim that Christians who behave poorly aren't true Christians, you'd think you would understand the nuance to this conflict.
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ServantOfJudgement
Michael,
As they drive the broken dead bodies through the Gaza strip, I see no condemnation by anyone rather people come to slap and spit on the dead broken and bloody captives. Sure, there are good Palestinians like any other people. They should do something about the blood thirsty animals living next to them.
I never said christians who behave poorly aren't christians. Everyone behaves poorly from time to time, that's me, you and our neighbors. If a Christian said he's killing in the name of God he's a satanist. I'm told Hitler claimed to be a Christian, he was not, he was a satanic animal.
We're talking about chopping the heads from children and cutting babies from the womb only to dismember it. I know the left doesn't mind late term abortion but I do. One syllable in defense of the Hamas or Palestinians that harbor Hamas is a commitment to pure evil and the father of murder. They bring their children up to think this way. This brand of islam can not coexist with anything but this brand of islam.
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Pastor George Day
ServantOfJudgement,
I agree with you. I wonder why neither Syria nor Egypt wants any refugees from Palestine! They know they harbor terrorists.
Sadly, there are good people, but they are a tiny minority. Evidence is Hamas being in government in Gaza.
Now, I wonder... isn't it interesting that both the Nazi and Islam have occult and satanic roots?
Hitler used to dabble with the Ouija board and Mohammad was suicidal because of the messages from angel Gabriel, or whoever that spirit who claimed to be him.
St Augustine of Hippo used to say: tell me who your founder was, and I will tell you who you are!
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Really no its not. Read Dietrich Bonhoeffer. When you stand silent and do nothing you are one of the culprits. When there is evil in the world you rid it from society or it will fester and grow.
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Pastor George Day
Hey Keith Allen Steele Eash,
Dietrich Bonoeffer was a Protestant! Are you sure you want to quote him :-)
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
I would tend to agree. They could stand up to Hamas if they had balls and not be used by these animals. Hamas is like BLM and all the terrorist organizations. They proclaim they support the Palestinians but they don't really care. If they did they would lay down their arms and negotiate. But, everytime they get what they negotiate for they ask for more and resort to violence. Why should Israel keep on appeasing and compromising. Enough is enough. It's all up to these Islamic fanatics. And one must remember Islam proclaims to be peaceful but their history proves otherwise. Now they've been influenced by ISIS or infiltrated by ISIS. All of these groups want Israel destroyed and establish a caliphate. Problem is none of them want to share power with any other terrorist group. ISIS wants all the power. Hezbollah wants all the power. Hamas wants all the power. Al-Quada wants all the power. Iran wants all the power. None will share the caliphate with each other. They would turn and fight each other. So let them destroy each other. Gold Meir said it best years ago. With the death of one Jew 1000 Muslims must die . There have been 900 or more deaths. That means close to a million must die. I can guarantee many innocents are being killed on the Gaza side but Israel knows where the targets are. Hamas uses innocents as a cover. But, then really what is an innocent Palestinian when they do nothing to change the system. If you stand by silently you are responsible. So take responsibility and change it. There can be no compromise until Hamas gives up power. That will never happen. So Israel will respond and if necessary turn to the "Samson Option". They will destroy the whole area in a nuclear suicidel war before they ever again be made slaves under another Holocaust. I believe this is the beginning of the end. As a Christian of Jewish background I happen to stand behind Israel. And religion gas nothing to do with it. It is their right as a people to live in peace. And they are always the first to prove they want peace: BUT AT WHAT COST?
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Ahmed Abduljabar Al-Hujazi
You are grossly oversimplifying the situation, which is more akin to what the native American tribes had to deal with, than a religious conflict. Initially the Palestinians fled the fighting that came out during the "Israel War of Independence". And, when they tried to go back home, they found Jewish settlers living in their homes or farms. Upon complaint to the Israeli government authorities, they were told to present proof that they lived there. How? Most of what they owned was left behind when they had to run for their lives. Any records that had been kept were destroyed during the Ottoman Empire's collapse after WW I, or when the Jewish settlers took over. Well, if you can't show proof, then too bad. Justice? Over the following years between ill-conceived wars by Arab "neighbors" more Palestinians were displaced and crowded into refugee camps by the establishment of Jewish settlements. On many occasions the residents of villages were told that the government had seized their land something like the imminent domain policy that exists in the US. With more and more people being disenfranchised, is it any wonder that they are easily misled by influencers like Iran? I'm not saying that what Hamas, funded by the Israeli government in its infancy, is in the process of doing is anything other than a heinous act of hatred and violence, and they perpetrators should be held accountable. However, keep in mind that we Americans are often in a position where our elected leaders don't consult us when passing laws like rescinding abortion rights, or selling off large portions of national parks for mineral exploitation by their cronies. With that in mind, Israel should not be intentionally targeting civilians, otherwise, how are they any different that the Hamas villains of this story. While I don't agree with what Hamas is doing, I'm not entirely surprised by it. They are taking the easy path, instead of the path of reason and peace, which is harder. Also, don't paint all Muslims with the same brush, if you want to bring up history, we can have a debate about what US troops did to native Americans of the bloody history of westward expansion, or compare the aftermaths of take overs of Jerusalem during the crusades. Just because someone claims to doing things in the name of Islam does not mean they speak for over one billion Muslims.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Oh come now. You don't care about those people. They're not even Arabic. Don't defend Palestinians to.me or any terrorist groups.i believe in what the Jews believe. They are my descendants. I am a Christian Zionist.
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ServantOfJudgement
Ahmed,
What you said about Muslims, that the actions of a few don't dictate the belief of the whole(I paraphrased). I fully agree with you. I have a very long story I'll reduce to this: A student of mine who was Muslim and a held a PhD invited my wife and I to his home for a traditional Muslim dinner at the end of the semester. Not only was the dinner fabulous, his family was wonderful. It forever changed my opinion towards the Muslim community. I'm a better man from it. Christians and Muslims can definitely coexist in harmony, I have no doubt.
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Pastor George Day
ServantOfJudgement,
Were these Middle Eastern Muslims or Westerner Muslims?
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ORDM Genie G
Why would over 1B peaceful Muslims say something for peace, for stopping hatred, for co-existence? I hear more voices for peace from Jews who are 16M at most around the world than from Muslims who are almost 2B around the world.
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Pink Clover
"Hamas is like BLM and all the terrorist organizations"
What a disgusting racist comment. BLM is not a terrorist organization. Stop watching Fox Entertainment. Seriously.
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ServantOfJudgement
Pink I was watching CNN when I watched the BLM terrorists terrorize cities as they rioted, burned, looted and killed people. You could watch it on any channel and YouTube it all day long. They literally fit the definition of a terror group, literally.
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Michael Hunt
You sound like the white supremacists from the 60's talking about Martin Luther King Jr. He was also called a terrorist for his protests which would be peaceful until law enforcement showed up to brutally repress them.
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William Waugh
.......and this is about when the "Star Trek" universe became a political force.
Hailing frequencies always open!!
If you dont know, King Jr. encouraged Nichelle Nichols not to quit the show because she shown a light on the condition of racial and gender discrimination.
Interestingly, we have developed many devices first dreamed up on "Trek". But the moneyless culture of personal growth still alludes us.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Yep - that's what Fox News told you.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/fox-news-alters-protest-images-video-again-1014675/
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ServantOfJudgement
So CNN reports live news using Fox news clips of CNN's re-run news?
Pass the crack pipe please.
Delivery from ignorance is bliss.
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Dent L. Sweem
BLM. ANTIFA. HAMAS etc. etc. TERRORISTS PERIOD!
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Pastor George Day
Keith Allen Steele Eash,
I'm glad to hear you are of Jewish background. I am a Messianic Jew. We are Protestant. I belong to the minority opinion that believes the Church is the New Temple with God's Shekina and that there is no need for a third temple built in Jerusalem. Those who embrace this theology are not that many. But I am one. Check our website here https://theologyofthebody.webador.co.uk/tob-synagogue.
Are you aware of the St James Vicarage? They are Hebrew Catholics.
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Alun Lloyd Palmer
Rubbish
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Pastor George Day
Alun Lloyd Palmer,
Your opinion. Opinions vary, but the truth does not :-)!!
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All we can do is pray for them, forgive them, pray and bless them and pray all people for the love of God to be manifested to them and in them that we may have peace throughout the entire world. ABBA manifest Yourself to Your created and show them Your Agape (unconditional) love AMEN, Amen and amen Shalom