The students who lived through the Valentine's Day massacre at MarjoryStoneman Douglas High Schoolin Parkland, Florida could have stayed quiet and worked through their grief in private. After witnessing the senseless murder of 17 of their classmates and teachers, nobody would have blamed them for simply trying to move on and live semi-normal lives. But instead, some have done exactly the opposite.
Students Become Activists
Taking to the stage at rallies and stepping before TV cameras, these young survivors quickly captivated the nation with their emotional calls for stricter gun control. In a viral moment, senior Emma Gonzalez expressed outrage over lax gun laws at a fiery Ft. Lauderdale rally. She chastised the government for placating victims like herself with meaningless "thoughts and prayers" and led the crowd in chants of "B.S." in response to arguments used by gun rights advocates:
Then there is David Hogg, the 17-year-old student who made appearances on numerous media outlets arguing for stricter gun controls measures in Florida and across the United States accumulating some 140,000 Twitter followers in the process.
Hogg's story, in particular, exemplifies the perils of entering the public eye. Overnight, he went from being the director of the school's student-run TV station to being the target of conspiracy theorists eager to discredit him as a trained crisis actor.
A Movement is Born
Hogg and Gonzalez are just two of the many Parkland students who've joined the movement trying to limit access to guns and as a result, limit gun deaths. Their courage inspired others to take action, and the movement has since spread to schools nationwide.
Last week, students all over the country walked out of their classrooms on the one-month anniversary of the shooting. Many remained outside for 17 minutes a tribute to the 17 victims in Parkland. Others walked off campus entirely, holding rallies and ramping up pressure on politicians to address their concerns.
This student-led movement has reignited the gun control debate, bringing it to the forefront of political conversation. And this renewed pressure may be working.
In a surprise move, Florida legislators voted to raise the minimum age for buying a gun to 21 something few deemed possible prior to the Parkland massacre.
Are They Too Young to Make Policy?
While this movement has been praised by many who're sick of America's gun culture and penchant for gun violence, Second Amendment advocates haven't been afraid to levy criticism.
This whole walk out on guns is a joke. You realize that in order to protect kids we need guns. The signs that read protect kids not guns are so unaware. You need a gun to fight a gun. It's not a want it's a fact. And it's my right to be able to protect myself. #ItsCalledFreedom
KAYA (@KayaJones) March 14, 2018
The Parkland students survived a terrible tragedy, critics concede, but that doesn't make them experts in gun policy. Quite the opposite the students' views are so distorted by this traumatic experience that their emotions triumph over rational thought.
More broadly, they insist youth activists around the country lack the knowledge and perspective to guide a debate as complex as gun control laws. Gun control, detractors say, isn't as simple as limiting access and seeing murder rates go down nor will restricting gun rights be free of unintended consequences.
Youth Activism: As American as Apple Pie
Criticism aside, this student-led movement is no outlier. The central role young people have played in effecting political change throughout American history is indisputable.
Claudette Colvin was just 15-years-old when she refused to surrender her seat to a white passenger in Montgomery, Alabama some nine months before Rosa Parks took a similar stand. College students across the United States organized and rode buses to southern states to march in the Civil Rights Movement.
During the Nixon years, public opposition to the Vietnam War swelled in large part due to student activism on college campuses. The famous Kent State University shootings sparked a nationwide strike of over 4 million students galvanizing the anti-war movement and putting pressure on the government to end the war.
What Next?
As the gun control debate rages on, more marches and events are scheduled to take place. Organizers have planned a "March for Our Lives" on March 24, in Washington, D.C. Sister marches are set to take place all over the country. Whether any meaningful national legislation will result is yet unknown. What is clear, however, is the power inherent in the voices of youth.
What do you think of the student-led movement for stricter gun control?
282 comments
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Linda Happenny
How dare anyone tell these young people they have no say . Their thoughts and voices are valid, I am marching right with them in florida just like I did at the Vietnam war. It is their right and you know that. Nobody is taking your guns away! I'm expecting some smartass to say something off the wall.
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John Owens
Yep, I'm surprised Jane Fonda isn't there with them.
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Carl Elfstrom
Not only Jane Fonda, but the ghost of Anita Bryant!
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Linda Happenny
How do you know she won't be?
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Carl Elfstrom
Let's have a seance and ask her.
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John Owens
Good one, Carl!
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E M Moriarty
Thanks for A breath of fresh, in the midst of all these condemnations from folks living in fear that the government will take away their guns and there rights. No one is trying to take away your guns. The NRA funded propaganda machine seems to have done a tremendously successful job in creating the fear that guns will be outlawed in the US. They keep the sales up,and "the masters of war" keep making money with their shameful arming of the population of the US and the massive weapons sales to countries and rebels around the world.
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Karen Mohring
Not trying to take the guns huh? I guess you haven't seen the latest bill that was introduced. http://thehill.com/homenews/house/375659-dems-introduce-assault-weapons-ban
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CEF0315
Wow! That Bill will never pass. That effectively makes us like the UK or Australia. "They're not coming for your guns"! What a joke. It seeks to ban ALL semi automatic weapons. Pistols, shotguns and rifles. The Constitution doesn't grant us anything. It tells government what they CAN'T take from us. You guys should read this Bill.
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Willie
You can tell you guys are not the brightest bulbs in the room. That is for sure!??????
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Jim Windwalker
The spirit of Satan is in league with the liberals and is going after our children… Then our constitution and our rights … These are not Random shootings to Satan they all fall in line for the plan revealed in the book of Revelation chapter 13
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The Doctor
Sorry Rev Jim but Lucifer is huge on the right to fight back against tyranny. How do you think he broke with heaven in the first place?
Lucifer the first freedom fighting rebel!
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Professor
You mean the first selfish bustard.
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The Doctor
Prof who the hell do you think you are. You are a mere mortal that ha no place to insult a divine entity the likes of Lucifer. And since Luciferianism and Satanism are accepted and acknowledged faiths in this country insulting the being they worship is just as wrong as if someone mocks any others entity they place faith in.
Shall I list the ways in which the god of christianity is a hypocrite, a mass murderer, and a tantrum throwing child?
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Carl Elfstrom
You might give that some more thought sir, the NRA seems like a good organization to me. I really miss my old NRA cap. They sent it to me when I first joined, thirty six years ago, when I was nineteen. I think I'll rejoin soon, and try to get another one of those caps.
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The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti
Not only that, but you might consider supporting Gun Owners of America and/or the National Association for Gun Rights. These organizations do not compromise with the gun grabbers the way the NRA sometimes does. Even so, the NRA is mostly right and deserves our support. It is the oldest civil rights organization in the US.
If the second amendment goes down the drain, all the other amendments will follow suit. This is why the admonition to the government in the second amendment reads: "...shall not be infringed." It is found no where else in the founding documents. because the founding fathers of the USA knew that future governments would try to infringe on our right to keep and bear arms. This is why they gave this right their strongest support.
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Michael Fassel
I for one would love to hear from the kids just one suggestion that would keep kids safe in schools. Because for all their make-it-harder-for-law-abiding-citizens-to-buy-a-gun noise, it does nothing, literally nothing, to stop a bad guy with a legally or illegally acquired weapon from walking into a school and killing people for 10 minutes.
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The Doctor
Spoken like someone who just doesnt get it. Reduce the over all number of weapons and it reduces the chance one of the weapons falls into the hands of the would be killer.
Its bloody funny in a tragic sort of way that 2nd cultists are so egocentric and in love with the idea their country is the best that they refuse to acknowledge the success other countries have had with reducing rampage killings by restricting access to weapons ideally suited to mass slaughter.
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Michael Fassel
Spoken like someone who just wants more kids to die. It'd take generations to remove guns from America if it is even possible. I'd like to make kids safe today. Unless you can stop a killer who somehow got their hands on a gun, knife, automobile or whatever, you're just whistling past the graveyard...literally. Btw, violent crime stats support me, not you.
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Carl Elfstrom
I recently bought a Bbgun, and a meat grinder at the same time. I'm tired of eating cows, hogs, and chickens. Now I'm thinking about seagulls. Guns aren't only used for shooting people, you know.
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The Doctor
Well in the case of young Nick Cruz its pretty clear what he needed was people to make him feel safe and loved. The adults in his life clearly failed him in that as did his community. Had people reached out to him when he was fragile and given him the gift of love his heart may well have filled with peace rather then rage.
This is generally the case with many serving time for violent crimes. Most simply lacked the social support needed to become civil minded people.
There is no magic instant fix but the fact is you call them killers rather then people. You are dehuminizing them to make your own violence feel acceptable.
I subscribe to Karmic Field theory. All killing is equally bad for our souls. Death is inevitable, killing is a choice. Better to die without ever taking a life then to survive by taking one.
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Tom B
T'Keren Valmaz...well said in your March 23 9:30 writing...Peace...Tom
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The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti
Of course, you are right. We must remember that the arguments from the left are not based on facts, logical reasoning, or a desire to solve problems. The answer is to repeal all laws that prevent people from carrying a concealed, loaded pistol.
I do not drink alcohol. Making it harder for me to buy a car will not reduce the number of deaths on the highway due to drunk driving. By the same token, making it hard for me to buy a gun will not prevent criminals from committing mass murders, or any other murders for that matter.
Reducing the number of legal guns will do nothing to control the criminals; it will just embolden them. The government has no control over illegal acquisitions of firearms. Criminals steal guns and can buy guns on the black market with impunity. The black market has no gun bans, no magazine limits, no waiting periods, and no background checks. These are only for people who want to act legally. It should not be harder for normal people to acquire firearms than it is for criminals. It puts us at a deadly disadvantage.
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Rev. John D. Partin
So, "Rev. Dr." Marion G. Ceruti, I will ask, as I have asked you and John Owens and others of your ilk before, if you "think" that society should constantly be playing catchup and keep up with the Joneses of criminals and let them dictate our policies and society to us, instead of our controlling and dictating to them how things are going to be, as much as possible and by every means necessary, without our turning into them?!! Friedrich Nietzsche wrote: "He who does battle with monsters should see to it that he doesn't become a monster! And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes back into you". That is our precarious predicament in our dealing with terrorists and regular criminals, that they might transform us into thinking and being like themselves. If they do that, they will have defeated us, anyway, no matter how well armed we are!! "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Ephesians 6:12). And if criminals get grenade launchers and surface to air missiles and dirty bombs or fly planes into your house or acquire even nuclear weapons, do we just have to get all of those things for ourselves and fly planes into their houses (bailing out first!) in order to be able to "defend ourselves against the criminals and against tyrannical government"?!! This leads to a spiraling out of control obsession and fascination with guns and stockpiling them, as many people do and have done, in order to feel "safe from criminals"!! There are many crazy gun nuts who would almost rather sleep with their guns than with a member of the opposite sex or, sometimes, the same sex!! It might seem "reasonable" to you to let criminals dictate our lives and society to us by our always having to keep up with them and match them gun for gun in armaments, but it doesn't seem reasonable to me or other people who still know the difference between that insanity and actually reasonable thinking and living!! By definition, law abiding people can't keep up with criminals in any area, not just guns, because they do things that the rest of us don't even try or want to do. According to your "logic" that there shouldn't be any legal restrictions on law abiding people because the criminals don't respect or follow any restrictions about guns, there also shouldn't be laws against pedophilia, rape, bank robbery, or any other crimes because "the criminals are just going to break them, anyway, and so it is unfair restriction on the law abiding people to force them to obey these laws, either, and so let's just not have any laws at all for anyone, since that would give us the same advantages and breaks as all of these criminals get!". In other words, there would only be criminals, of different kinds, and no law abiding people at all!! As I said before, if a handgun or rifle or shotgun doesn't do the job of defending yourself and your home, that job can't be done by you, anyway, because you must have an entire Army or Division attacking your house and they have far more weapons and hands to shoot them than you do!!! Democratic gun owners could hardly be against gun ownership and use, since that would be a contradiction in terms, but are only against this right-wing and neo-Nazi gun obsession and trying futilely to keep up with insane people who don't follow any laws or rules other than the voices in their own heads!! We can't sensibly or reasonably let them be the masters of our society or formulators of our policies and thinking and end up being as crazy as they are!!! In the not so distant future, there may be rays beamed down from satellites that would knock unconscious or cause a heart attack or other disabling condition in anyone displaying violent or murderous tendencies or actions (hijackers, mass murderers, regular murderers, rapists, child molesters, and other criminals), forcing people to behave themselves or suffer the consequences and taking the responsibility out of our hands!! No more road rage or fist fights or any other violence or aggression at all and certainly no more wars!! We would finally have a peaceful world, even if it were forced on us, and, therefore, no further need for defense against criminals who could no longer exist or operate. The downside to this Shangri-la would be that people couldn't become belligerent or express vehemence at sporting events, since they might be zapped by the rays from the satellites, too, and have to be carried out and taken to a hospital or morgue, if they didn't have special dispensation implants or cards that would prevent that from happening. Those implants or cards might be stolen by criminals, once again, if they could do it calmly, and we would have some of the same problem starting all over again!! License plates can already be read from out in space by satellites and so this beaming down of rays into people isn't so very farfetched. "Big Brother", possibly, but that is what it might take with some people. Gun rights nuts and mass killers feed off and encourage each other, anyway, each being urged on by the other side and "thinking" that they are "only defending themselves". So, this satellite solution might be the only way off of this Merry-Go-Round!! Until that plan is put into action, we will just have to try to practice more reason and self-restraint ourselves!!
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Reverand Raymond Smith
Totally agree with you!
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James
kids are using an incomplete brain to try to reason with a tragedy. Yes, we are watching victims and children order adults and lawmakers how to do their jobs. no no no...... that is the makings of a huge mistake.
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Clayton Beardmore
Huge, and, I might add, irreversible. Scary.
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Carl Elfstrom
Amen, Brother!
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John Owens
Another step toward Utopia is what they think, but unintended consequences are waiting to rear their heads.
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James
A true utopian has no art, no music no entertainment, only work and everyone has their fair share of it. Yeah buddy great place ... Not for me
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John Owens
Yes, but they are dreaming of John Lennon's Utopia, where everyone just sits around, plays music, paints, sings, dances, smokes pot, and does what they want and someone sees that they are fed and housed. What they are going to get if successful is genocide and soviet style servitude.
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Carl Elfstrom
That sounds like a Buddhist monastery. I saw one on The Next Karate Kid.
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James
Signs that read "Protect kids not guns"? Guns not kill. PEOPLE do. Legal or illegal. Pass all the gun laws one wants. These kids need to know criminals NOT follow laws. Be it guns, a Home Depot truck, anthrax, knives, acids, or ??? (Whatever the weapon of choice may be). Legally acquired or not, Its ppl that kill. One can NOT regulate stupidity.
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Clayton Beardmore
You are absolutely right! Guns don't kill people, people kill people. All the gun control laws in anyone's imagination won't stop people from killing people.
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Carl Elfstrom
There's a big difference between college students, who are men and women, and younger students, who are children. Men (and women) have certain unalienable rights in the USA, but not boys and girls. If they were as mature as adults they would know that gun laws mean nothing to murderers, and such laws can't stop a crazy kid from getting a gun and going ballistic at a school over some pent up resentments. Has anyone thought about putting metal detectors and highly trained armed guards at all the entrances of all schools? That would eliminate the indoor problem, at least. Of course, children have voices, and if enough of them are heard by listening adults they will be acted upon. I just hope those udults won't as immature, or lack as much knowledge and wisdom as the student activists.
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Carl Elfstrom
Linda, it seems like you and the other activists would have matured at least a little since the Vietnam war. Maybe not. Well, you're running around with childish activists again. I hope you're teaching them how to be good, little hippies. Have you moved into a psychedelic painted Volkswagen bus yet? That would be far out and out of sight! Peace, man.
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Linda Happenny
You can attack me all you want. What I learned back then is the same thing the young people now see. I didn't know I can't t support them Ha! Give me a break. History is repeating its self. Calling me childish is rotten to the core. Who cares what you think! I don't! You don't sound like from my generation.BTW
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Bruddie Wilson
I don't usually post any kind of reply to any form of media,but having reviewed ,not only the post on this subject ,but other subjects that are contained on this site,l have become acutely aware of the disconnect many have with the reality of a fallen world. God never created this world that men would war against one another or that they would become so lustful that they would only consider their own desires at the cost of everyone else. The nature of sinful man is evil and only the revelation of an all powerful and all knowing God can bring about a change in that nature. Of course it can come about only by the request and sincere heart of the man wanting to be transformed. God does not impose his will on anyone. Now,all of that being said,eliminating guns will inspire evil men to invent another way to impose his will on others. Cain,after all,killed his brother Abel,long before there were guns. Sin kills! Sometimes without a logical reason. There in is one of our many mistakes. Evil will produce the tools necessary to accomplish its goals and without regard to any law or commandment of God or government. Our calling is to guide men to the light of a better way. I still remember my protest as a teenager,to discover later in life that all I was,was a distraction,both to myself and the real issues. Taking away,by the dictate of a government,the rights of lawful men,will produce more wickedness than most of us have ever seen. When righteous men are subdued,then evil will reign,and great persecution will follow. If you will,lambs before the slaughter.
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Carl Elfstrom
It sounds like you've been watching Silence Of The Lambs. Personally, I especially like marinated leg of lamb.
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Tom B
Carl...everything is unfolding in this world exactly as it should be...the variable we can employ is our devotion to the truth of God/Peace...Tom
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The Doctor
Bruddie, even among the worlds leading theologians the story of Cain and Abel is viewed more as a confusing mystery then anything else. Especially because its one of the few biblical myths that make god seem the one most at fault.
God and Adam both seemed to carelessly treat Cain with neglect and show undue favoritism on Abel in the oldest forms of the story.
For example when both the brothers made offerings to god, Abel made one of freshly slaughtered meat, while Cain made one of wheat. In Judaism both offerings should be seen as equal, and in christianity the offering of meat or in other words a blood sacrifice was specifically decried by Jesus as he frequently spoke against all forms of bloody sacrifice including that of the story of Abraham being asked to kill his son as a test of faith.
When God showed favoritism to Abel it in effect showed Cain that sacrificing life was only kind God would acknowledge and thus killing Abel became an inevitable outcome at that point.
Interestingly enough this does seem somewhat like a moral mean more for fathers then children. Looking at this case of young Nick Cruz its pretty clear he lacked a sense of feeling loved by those around him, which pushed him away from society and detached him from humanity.
When a person feels unloved especially the young, the rage they inevitably feel is quite understandable and is more the fault of those in their life that failed to reach out to them and hold them close in love and fellowship.
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Hoggdogg
I am reading all the post stoping the ar15 law and orher gun laws wont help if you want a gun you can get it on the street i feel for the 17 that lost their life but stronger gun laws wont help people wont listen the end time is coming this world fill so much hate. Blacks hate whites white hate blacks and on and on we need to stop the hate
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The Doctor
WW Brown you apparently are unaware that most gangs for example get their guns legally.
MS 13 for example intentionally recruits kids very young and intentionally keep some completely away from active crime so that when they do come of age they can buy guns over the counter with no issue.
In fact this method is so effective MS 13 regularly exports weapons bought legally in the US to their branches in other countries where getting guns is nearly impossible like the UK.
So yes our easily aquired guns are very much a problem for other countries, and in fact the actions of the worlds most powerful gang highlight that the most effective way to disarm them is to make guns very hard to get legally.
And your preaching about an end time isnt helping matters. When people fear some catastrophe is on the horizon it increases violence first and foremost.
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Carl Elfstrom
The end time comes whenever we die. It has always been that way, and always will be, regardless of what might have been imagined in the dream of an unmedicated schizophrenic who was mistakenly called a prophet. That was quite a sentence you wrote Wesley, the way the whole thing ran together.
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The Doctor
Carl death is very much not the end. the energy that composes our physical body does not magically fade away, nor does the energy that makes up the electrical impulses of our thoughts. Just like radio waves their vibrations will radiate out through existence forever.
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Tom B
T'Keren...i agree with this also...what we call "death" is simply a return to God/universe...and what we call the past, present and future have always, and will always, exist...Peace...Tom
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Carl Elfstrom
They could send those child activists to reform schools, and Linda can drive her hippie bus to meet up with the Vietnam activists in the old hippie home commune, where they'll sing Let The Sunshine In, in unison. Peace, man
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Clayton Beardmore
rad
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Carl Elfstrom
Clay, I'm not familiar with a word spelled rad. Did you just learn how to draw those three letters in nursery school, little boy, or in day care for mentally retarded adults?
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John Owens
Damn, Carl. He was paying you a compliment.
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Carl Elfstrom
Thankyou,Mr. Owens. My bad. I guess I sometimes get lost in the negativity I'm reading, and can only see that. I apologize to you Clay, and thank you for your compliment.
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Carl Elfstrom
My bad!
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Carl Elfstrom
That's where I learned to draw numbers Clay, before they took away my crayons for trying to eat them, but I bet you're a lot smarter than me, considering all of your masterful comments on this blog. I should try to follow in your foot steps.
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Carl Elfstrom
I'm a hippie too, but I'd rather stay home, listen to some old time rock and roll, smoke another soon to be legal joint, and call it a night, while I think of some more masterful comments to minister to y'all with tomorrow, at least to give y'all something to pray about. And that is how to write a long, perfect sentence, Wesley. Can you see a difference between mine and yours. Give this man some crayons and a coloring book.
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Carl Elfstrom
Clay, I'm waiting to here another one of your silly little responses. Go ahead, give it your best shot. I'm in the mood for a good fight.
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Carl Elfstrom
I suppose Clay might have fallen off the side of the planet by now (into shadow). Or, does he know when he's been whipped?
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Carl Elfstrom
That article about Billy Graham really screwed up my head. I should have taken a longer break after that, to regain some sanity, and gain a proper perspective.
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Linda Happenny
Go do your drugs! Your sound like a junkie. WTF! BTW I don't do any!
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Linda Happenny
To moderator want to cancel last comment
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Carl Elfstrom
Your last comment has been successfully deleted, my gracious lady. Please delete a few of mine too.
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Tom B
I do not understand the deleting of comments...what we call the past is irrevocable; it is what we do going forward that counts...Tom
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Linda Happenny
Oh brother!
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The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti
Make no mistake about it. This is not about the guns. It's about growing government until it controls every aspect of our lives. Students are not leading this idiotic effort to divest us of our hard-won constitutional rights. Soros has funded this protest and his supporters have organized it. Moreover, the Teacher's Union is attempting to bully pro-gun teachers. No need to arm teachers directly. Just get the government out of the way and let the teachers, administrators, custodial staff, and coaches arm themselves. If these students don't like guns now, maybe they will change their tune next time when the bad guys start shooting and a good guy shoots back.
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Steve W.
I have to admit I am shocked by this discussion. I've donated, will board students in my home this weekend, and if I'm not too drugged after shoulder surgery on Thursday, I'll be marching in DC on Saturday. Hope to see yo there.
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mike
Why March in Washington, should be marching at the local law enforcement office and the local FBI that dropped the ball. And the chicKen officer that didn't go in. This guy should have been in jail a long time ago. Guns are not the problem, people should just do there jobs and this wouldn't have happened.
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The Doctor
William the fact is LEOs are by protocol not to enter or engage an unknown threat on their own. He called it in and waited for back up as is SOP.
Expecting some donut muncher toact like a wild west bad arse tells me you really do imagine carrying a gun and badge make someone into some kind of super hero.
And this guy, aka Nick Cruz was little more then a child, that had gone unloved and ignored, bullied and abused for years. The people not doing their jobs are every single person that failed to reach out to this troubled soul and grasp him tight in love and fellowship.
You cant lock up anyone because of something they have not yet done. He was clearly troubled, and yet people like you think locking him up and forgetting about him would of been a valid action. For Shame.
May the Void consume your soul and keep it forever in the darkness of Oblivion for you are clearly lost to the light.
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Linda Happenny
Will be marching in South Florida!?
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Michael Fassel
Local participation is key. Went to a safety forum hosted by the school district last night. Columbine is in our district. Sadly we heard that most of our schools, in the 18 years since Columbine massacre, still have not been equipped with classroom doors that can be locked from the inside. Wtf?
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The Doctor
Mr Fassel this is likely because most schools are barely getting by on the budget they are given. This school in florida for example has been suffering constant shortages for things as simple as paper and had been forced to put the burden on their students, many of which came from low income households.
Many banks and businesses in cities like LA and Detroit have ballistic glass and kevlar or carbon fiber impregnated walls. Which is very expensive. Maybe we should be looking at corporations that boast multi billion dollar a year profits by under paying their employees and using every tax write off in the book and asking why they dont offer to protect the children the same way they protect their property.
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Professor
I thought you shot yourself in Vegas. Oops, sorry, my bad.
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flugo
A big problem is the woosie, weak school administrators who allow these irresponsible students to skip school without adverse consequences!
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Professor
Yea, On the weekend.
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Carl Elfstrom
I know what you mean, Bob. I did a lot of school skipping when I was a kid , and all they ever did to me was expelled me three times from high school and send me to alternative school, until they expelled me from there too. Then they sent me to a locked rehab for juvenile delinguents for close to a year. Just trivial punishments. However, I never thought about taking g a gun to school and shooting anyone. It's just that my vision was usually too blurred to find the the school.
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Carl Elfstrom
I just made a twelve ounce mug of coffee, so it looks like I'll be doing some more ministering tonight. Just thought I'd let y'all know, in case y'all are able to benefit from my benevolent services.
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Wen
What a bunch of cranky pants. These are the future leaders of this country learning to excerise their right to express freely their opinion. How is that so intimidating? I’m on the hippy bus!
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Carl Elfstrom
Sounds like you might ought to smoke another joint and chill out, man.
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Carl Elfstrom
Not many people of any generation lead a nation. There's a much greater chance of those particular children becoming convicts than world leaders. Just something to think about.
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Wen
please....just where do your statistics come from? Sounds like you must have a very small imagination when it comes to defining leadership
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Tom B
There will be no peace in the world with guns...it is bad enough that money controls the world...and we have governments that do not have the guts to put proper procedures in place to truly vet the people who want guns, because of being beholden (receiving large amounts of money) from the NRA and affiliates...the Second amendment should be revised, as other parts of our liberties have been revised since the creation of the Bill of Rights...the world is an entirely different place than it was in the late 18th century...people who think guns can protect them from government have been deluding themselves...and student/young people movements ARE the way to modify life, as opposed to billionaires doing the modifying to keep control over us...Tom
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John Maher
HEY CARL ELFSTROM, KNOW WHY DONKEYS ARE NOT ALLOWED in SCHOOLS, THINK ABOUT IT, WHILE YOU ROLL YOUR JOINT............................
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Carl Elfstrom
You're a good man Mr. Maher. Thankyou for putting me in my place. I sometimes need a swift kick to put me back on course after getting carried away on a futile path.
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John Owens
The Afghanis used mostly inferior rifles and carbines to fight the Russians and the US-led coalition, and so far, Afghanistan is unsubdued. The Viet Cong used Chinese SKSs and Mosin Nagants and Kalashnikovs to fight the French and later the US, and they won. Rifles alone won't defeat the government if it starts consuming us, but with rifles and some imagination and planning, we can keep the government from consolidating into firmly entrenched tyranny.
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Tom B
John...i stand by what i said...we need more people interested and willing to act for peace, not more people with guns...violence is the true cancer of society...Peace...Tom
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Wen
Finally a voice of reason. Thank you Tom! I don't get what we are so very afraid of.
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Tom B
Wen...i agree...in spiritual terms FDR was right, when he said "we have nothing to fear but fear itself"...especially if you believe, as I do, that everything that happens is supposed to happen...it almost always comes down to ego and judgments...Peace...Tom
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John Owens
Tom and Wen, just keep on dreaming that what's in your mind will affect others' behavior. If someone wants to hurt me, it does not matter if I am afraid or not afraid. Neither fear nor courage make me bullet-proof, and I cannot spend my whole life hiding from someone else who seeks to hurt me, in order to avoid conflict. I will try to avoid it at first, but I will realize I am giving predatory people the opportunity to run the world, and then I will arm myself and confront the predator from a position of strength. The predator can then choose to make peace or die. That is the only rational way to respond.
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Wen
hi John.....I am not American and I will not pretend to understand the love affair many Americans have with guns. I do urge you to research the statistics from other countries where there are stricter gun laws. I believe the escalation of gun violence and the perceived threat by predatory behaviour in America is fueled by inaccurate logic. Nevertheless, the conversation at hand is about students. In a land that values freedom and the defense of freedom why is it that other citizens are not applauding their young for such a powerful lesson in civics.....that which makes America great....freedom and liberty for all....what I see here are a bunch of very angry and cranky people with no tolerance for opinion other than their own....dunno why that would be
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Tom B
John Owens...it is true that what we hold in mind does affect others...we are all connected, as we are all a part of God...our earthly personalities fade when we return to God...Tom
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The Doctor
Oh Owen you are so adorable thinking that some pop guns and your imagination can match the power of modern warfare.
The fact is the best tool we have left is public displays and media coverage spread to our like minded allied countries so we can not just be exterminated.
But wanting people well armed plays to the plan of the social elite that rule as they thrive on our fear of each other and strive to keep us fighting each other.
You are a prime example of what they want someone consumed by his own delusions and heavily armed constantly making threats towards those that disagree with your views.
Keep up your delusions of conspiracies like Obama being born outside of the U.S. and the world being flat. Hell you likely actually believe in the story of Noah and his silly boat as well.
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John Owens
"You are a prime example of what they want someone consumed by his own delusions and heavily armed constantly making threats towards those that disagree with your views." Why do you keep inventing shit, T'Keren?
You know you have to be insane to imagine some of this, right? Like this: "Keep up your delusions of conspiracies like Obama being born outside of the U.S. and the world being flat. Hell you likely actually believe in the story of Noah and his silly boat as well."
I do not believe Obama is a US citizen. That is not a delusion, though. That is a belief. It has nothing to do with delusion.. I don't see why idiots like you find it so hard to conceive that he may well have been born elsewhere. If not he lied to be considered an exchange student. Be that as it may, bringing up flat earth bullshit is another attempt to marginalize me because I am able to think differently than you think people should.
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John Owens
I would add that without weapons, the government can easily eliminate public displays and media coverage. The weapons are our guarantee of our rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If we have those rights, we have the right to defend them. Period.
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guidvce4
Tom, interesting comment. In an effort to broaden my scope of knowledge, I'd appreciate if you would post the references which verify the "large amounts of money" the NRA is buying all the influence in our government. Could you do that for me? I can't seem to find any references which point to the NRA as a huge contributor to any legislator at any level. Of course, it could be just an easy talking point for the left when its got nothing to really back up their rants.
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John Owens
Nice. The left loves to vilify.
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Tom B
guidvce4...I find it unusual that anyone who studies life in this country has not read about the millions of dollars spent by the NRA on lobbying...but if you are being truthful, go to OpenSecrets.org, and other web-sites, as the lobbying monies spent by all major organizations are publicly listed...and comments on the "left" and "right" seem to be just rhetoric to avoid the reality of all of us co-existing...anyone can be argumentative; it takes a greater will to be loving and compassionate...Peace...Tom
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Carl Elfstrom
Tom, I heard they're seeking a replacement to host Mr. Rogers Neighborhood. You seem perfect for the job. Won't you be my neighbor? I can hear you telling Chef Tell already "Let's all be nice, and the bad people will go away."
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Tom B
Carl...do you feel that oblique cynicism is constructive?...and if you are aware of what Jesus said, you would (hopefully) realize the truth of the effect of love...Peace...Tom
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John Owens
Tom, everyone reads about the LEFT bitching about it, but there is no evidence of these vast sums of money which are greater than so many other lobbies. Get a grip.
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K Smith
"In the 2016 election, the NRA spent $11,438,118 to support Donald Trump—and another $19,756,346 to oppose Hillary Clinton. That’s over $31 million spent on one presidential race.
Presidential candidates aren’t the only ones who benefit from the NRA’s largess, though. Here’s a look at the top politicians who have benefited from NRA funding over their careers, back to 1989, as calculated by the Center for Responsive Politics and three writers for the New York Times Opinion section:
Top 5 Senators That Benefited the Most From NRA Funding John McCain (R, AZ) – $7.74 million
Richard Burr (R, NC) – $6.99 million
Roy Blunt (R, MO) – $4.55 million
Thom Tillis (R, NC) – $4.42 million
Cory Gardner (R, CO) – $3.88 million
Top 5 Representatives That Benefited the Most From NRA Funding French Hill (R, AR) – $1.09 million
Ken Buck (R, CO) – $800,544
David Young (R, IA) – $707,662
Mike Simpson, (R, ID) – $385,731
Greg Gianforte (R, MT) – $344,630
It’s worth noting that the calculated totals listed above combine direct campaign contributions (which are limited by law; see this Washington Post data visualization for only those figures) as well as outside money spent on behalf of candidates from the NRA’s PACs and directly from the NRA’s 501(c)(4) social welfare unit. The figures subtract independent expenditures for and against opponents if the candidate did not compete in a general election. (Independent expenditures denote funds used for or against a candidate but not made in cooperation, consultation, or concert with them.)" http://fortune.com/2018/02/15/nra-contributions-politicians-senators/
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The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti
Thank you for reminding me of all the good that the NRA accomplishes. Now, I am inspired to send in another political contribution so we can continue to win!
Peace through strength.
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John Owens
Now post what the NEA, Planned Parenthood, George Soros, all the other unions contribute to democrats. Try to have a little semblance of balance.
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John Owens
Crickets.
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mike
Wow, people's eignorance just is beyond belief. Guns are not the problem. There are laws in place. Local police and FBI should have locked him up years ago. And chicken cop should have went in. Sorry, don't mean to insult you but dang. So in Austin TX a boy aquire parts to make bombs probably from a hardware store, so let's close all of them.
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Tom B
William...if there were no guns, no one could be killed with them...and laws just evidence the breakdown of respect we should have for each other...and yes, the way we educate our children is the core/basis for how they act...how do you think it contributes to true dialogue to voice your comment about hardware stores?...it is easy to argue; it takes much more focus to be loving and compassionate...and there is no need for you to apologize, as I do not get insulted...i simply try to have people relate to each other...Peace...Tom
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mike
Three of those kids went to school with knifes and we're arrested. Are we going to get rid of everything people can use as weapons. Proof if you get rid of one thing, people find something else. I have a lot of guns and go regularly to a gun range and train. But I have a mindset that is positive towards other people and won't ever use a weapon only for self protection. The young man in Florida did everything but get on a roof top with a bullhorn and ask for help and 35 times local law enforcement walked away and did nothing. FBI did nothing when people close to him beg to get him help.Everything is in place to stop all of these shooting , people just need to be willing to do there jobs, and get involved. Pray for that.
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Brother Sir Guy
It is disconcerting to go to a site which touts spirituality and unity and to see such angry vitriol. This country thinks nothing of sending 18-year-olds out with a rifle and more to fight in this country's wars and allows teenagers in some cases 15 years of age or younger to consent to sex or even to marry, yet somehow they lack the capacity to protest what they see as injustice? Proverbs 22:6 says, "Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it." Part of that training involves being able to fight injustice and inequity, to look out for others and to stand for what you believe is right.
As a former law enforcement officer, I understand that laws do not stop criminals, any more than they stop people from committing sin. But consistent laws across the country can be a deterrent, just as the Mosaic Law and the Gospel can give pause to those who respect it. If we believe it is our obligation to help create a better future and our spiritual obligation to guide our youth, it is counterproductive to on one hand to say they have to be better than us and on the other fight and condemn the means with which they decide to do it.
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Carl Elfstrom
I see why you're a former cop. I would have fired you too. I had a great grandfather by the name and title of Sir Ernest Grave. The Queen gave him that title, and he was a member of a British order of knights. Who gave you the title of Sir. Do you think all pigs should be called that? Oink oink. I bet you understood that. If you're opposed to sending young adults to war would you rather send our senior citizens into battle. We'd never win a war like that.
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Carl Elfstrom
If you don't like the way things are in this country, try Mexico. They have a shortage of people there now, and need someone like you to guard the gate as a border cop, to keep more Mexicans from leaving. They might call you Cerberus. Then you can show your other two heads.
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Brother Sir Guy
I am a 9/11 first responder who had to retire due to cancer. Currently I speak to people about 9/11, how 92 countries lost people that day and how 500,000 from around the world came together in the subsequent months to help in the recovery efforts. I teach school groups about the importance of transcending hatred and bigotry, about pushing past racism and prejudice to look out for their fellow man and in doing so, we can help prevent more 9/11s and more school shootings. What do you do Carl besides call names and attack people on Internet?
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Carl Elfstrom
My hat's off to you sir. Keep up the good work.
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Carl Elfstrom
I now can clearly see why the Queen would also dub you a knight, Sir.
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Tom B
Guy...well said...the "elders" send the youth to war, while they discuss mega-politics over tea...it has always been easier to send the disenfranchised (not monied) to do the bidding of the elite...i am 76, and I applaud the efforts of the "kids"...our entire educational system needs to be re-vamped, and 1968 should be taught and discussed in all schools, along with showings of "The Breakfast Club", which teaches youth how to respect one another, and absorb different views...unfortunately, the Kochs and Rothchilds of the world will stop at nothing to self-preserve...Peace...Tom
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The Doctor
Interesting idea. The Breakfast Club is a movie with a very positive message for the young.
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Tom B
T'Keren...agreed...i feel it is kept out of schools because of the smoking...another interesting movie about relationships, although among slightly older people, is St. Elmo's Fire...would you mind telling me the derivation of your names?...Peace...Tom
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The Doctor
Oh sure I actually use this name to annoy those on a nondenominational ministry site that espouse contempt for Satanism and Luciferians both of which are just as much accepted religions as christianity etc.
There is a old story of a time when gods made ware upon those mortals that refused to kneel before them in worship, and when it seemed certain the gods would win a being called Valmaz the lord of all demonkind came to them and armed them with the knowledge and weapons needed to fight back against the gods.
In essence Valmaz defended humanities right to choose to worship or not and retain their free will. Granted its just an old story that has been used a few times in popular fiction as the basis for fun stories, but I am rather fond of the idea that it was what christians call demons that effectively saved humanity from enslavement by gods.
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Tom B
T'Keren...thanks for the info...does that go for T'Keren also?...clearly, everyone is free to worship as each pleases...each should, however, respect the same right in everyone else, and be a loving, caring person...Peace...Tom
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The Doctor
No T'Keren is the name of a character in fiction that in a story sacrificed his body to a satan like character so that it might better know humanity by walking among them for a mortal lifetime.
I just like how the names go together.
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Tom B
T'Keren...thank you for the explanation...it is interesting since virtually no one picks his or her own name...Peace...Tom
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The Doctor
Actually tom in many cultures through out history it was not uncommon to have a child name given to you at birth and then when you came of age be either given a name befitting your nature by a wise person or shaman, or pick a name for yourself after undergoing a spirit walk or sojourn.
I myself for example have the legal last name johnson but my father isnt named john so dont care for it. I frequently instead introduce myself as Terikson as my parents names where teri and erik. I also use a version of my first name in a different language that I find more interesting ilmenheru. Ive considered going through the hassle of a legal name change but having to get new id and things like the deed to my car and home changed has been enough of a bother I keep putting it off. Not to mention my various certificates from ULC which wouldnt be exactly cheap to have re made in the new name.
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Tom B
T'Keren...you are right...there are/were some cultures where names were not just chosen at birth...and I agree you should be able to use any names you like (as long as you do not use them to take advantage of people)...there is even an argument for namelessness, as names have implications (as you alluded), and as we are in God/heaven/universe...Peace...Tom
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John Owens
This is not a student-led movement. This is an orchestrated, manipulated movement run shamelessly from behind the scenes by democratic operatives. Most of these students couldn't run a lemonade stand. Anyone who believes these students are capable of any of this on their own is delusional.
Regardless, the reason we have a Constitution and Bill of Rights is to keep fads and seasons from stripping our rights and allowing government to take over our lives. Their feelings and even the shootings have nothing to do with our rights. Again, I will remind everyone that all the shooters have been brought up under liberalism and it is the fault of liberalism that so many people are so deranged and sociopathic.
The right to keep and bear is part and parcel of the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If you can't keep and bear, you cannot defend those rights.
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Carl Elfstrom
Maybe teachers ought to go back to using paddles. They worked good for generations. That will knock some sense into those ornery, little, thugs.
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John Owens
I believe that, Carl. Parents (fathers and mothers) should, also.
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Wen
A wrong headed and completely archaic response.
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John Maher
JOHN BOOGER BUTTERFLY OWINS, I MUST BE ON MY BEST WORDs BEHAVIOR, SOO, #$)*&^%@!@# and YER SISTER TOO !!!
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John Owens
You MUST stop living in this fantasy world, Maher.
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The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti
Dear Pastor John,
Thank you for this. You have correctly stated the problem, again. I appreciate your voice of reason and your defense of liberty.
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Rev. John D. Partin
John Owens can't understand how these students could possibly be deciding on their own initiative to protest against gun violence, even when they are being targeted by gun violence, along with many other people, because, after all, "why would people who are being targeted by and the victims of gun violence ever decide on their own to protest against that without that being really the result of their being used by left-wing democratic operatives?". Nobody would ever protest against that without somebody else putting them up to that, would they?!! Self-preservation and self-interest couldn't possibly be these students' motivation for protesting against this gun violence, now could it (at least, according to JO and other conservatives)?! Anyone who believes that these students' self-interest and self-preservation alone could be causing them to protest against this gun violence, without their needing to be "put up to doing that by democratic operatives", according to these conservatives, "has to be delusional" and, of course, "these students aren't smart enough to be able to figure out to be against gun violence and being victimized by that violence on their own, without somebody's putting them up to that", again according to these conservatives!! According to JO and his ilk (which means a kind or sort or type of people, such as people who love sports, and so isn't bigoted or hateful, but merely classifying and descriptive, JO), these students "aren't even smart enough to run a lemonade stand" because only by dismissing and denigrating their intelligence can these people try to float and sell their idea to people that "these students are being put up to their protests by people who are just manipulating them". I'm certain that if someone starting shooting at John Owens or any of these other conservative gun nuts, they would also "have to be talked into shouting against that and would never be able to figure out for themselves that they should do so", according to their "thinking" about these students and applying the same "thinking" right back on them!! "For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged, and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again". Believing in conspiracy theories, such as "democratic operatives' putting these students up to protesting gun violence", is always easier than thinking rationally and logically and looking for sensible and realistic reasons for people's behavior, which is why conspiracy theory belief is so popular and essential to JO and his ilk , who don't actually like to really think logically and clearly very much at all and aren't any good at it, anyway!! Even if it were true that all shooters have been "raised under liberalism" (and there is no actual evidence of that, except in easily convinced of that conservatives' "minds", especially considering that liberals are still fighting against conservative and neo-Nazi beliefs and domination in this society, which would be unnecessary in a liberal controlled world), shooters aren't practicing or following liberal ideas in their shooting and murder sprees, since those are, quite obviously, RIGHTIST and belligerent and militaristic conservative and neo-Nazi practices and so-called "thinking". That is really what has made these shooters so deranged and sociopathic and blaming that on liberalism is merely right-wing and neo-Nazi (the same thing, actually) scapegoating of the left for everything wrong in society!! Nobody is out to take anyone's guns away, which is another right-wing lie about the left and our intentions, since many Democrats are gun owners and reasonable (rather than unreasonable) supporters of gun ownership, but what is wrong with just keeping guns out of the hands of crazy people who go out and shoot as many people as they can before they are killed or arrested and requiring background checks and exercising some common sense responsibility with gun ownership and not just, stupidly and ridiculously, expecting "good guys with guns to solve the problem of bad guys with guns"?!! If bad guys with guns don't care about getting shot and expect to be killed, anyway, and want to see if they are faster draws and better shots than the good guys and the good guys don't have the same level of commitment to killing that the bad guys have, then good guys with guns are no deterrent to bad guys with guns and may even invite them much more than gun free zones and be more of a challenge for these shooters!!
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Rev. John D. Partin
Here is more proof against the "it takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun" nonsensical "thinking" for John Owens, "Rev. Dr." Marion Ceruti, and all other gun rights (only their rights and nobody else's rights!!) people in here: www.harvardpolitics.com/united-states/good-guy-gun-myth/ https://www.huffpost.com/entry/do-good-guys-with-guns-stop-bad-guys_b_6326728 https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/lapierre-nra-analysis/index.html https://arizona.concealedcarry.com/2015/12/17/do-good-guys-stop-bad-guys-with-guns/ https://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/09/tonight-on-ac360-will-good-guys-with-guns-stop-the-bad-guys/ https://www.huffpost.com/entry/good-guy-with-a-gun-myth_b_5397163 Even aside from these reports, which ultra-conservatives, such as John Owens and his ilk, will simply, unthinkingly (why would they be different about this than they are the rest of the time?), and broadbrushingly dismiss as "liberal propaganda and brainwashing" etc., common sense, if you have any of it at all, should tell you that crazy people with guns don't only go after people who don't have guns, but go after anybody that they want to go after, with guns or without (was there some part of their being crazy and doing unreasonable things that you didn't understand?), and often prefer people who have guns because they are more of a challenge and these crazy killers want to prove that they are faster on the draw and better shots than those people! What is all this nonsense that people with guns only go after people without guns?!!! All wars are people who have or had guns going out to kill other people with guns!! In the Old West, nearly every man had a gun and still these men with guns got shot, sometimes, and so their guns didn't save them, did they?!! The argument that because criminals don't respect or follow the laws, anyway, more gun control is pointless is also ridiculous!!! By that "logic", we might as well not have any laws against murder, bank robbery, kidnapping, child molestation, or any other crimes because "the criminals are just going to break those laws, anyway, and so you will only be stopping already law-abiding people from doing those things and what is the point of that?". When criminals violate the gun control laws, they are then for law enforcement to take care of, the same as when they violate all other laws, instead of not having background checks and other gun control or any laws at all because "they will just violate all of that, anyway!!". That is ridiculous!!! Nobody on the left or any Democrats are saying that people don't have the right to defend themselves and exercise RESPONSIBLE!!! and REASONABLE!!! gun ownership and use, but, also, people don't need arsenals of weapons in their homes for that purpose because, obviously, if that many people (in an Army or division) are attacking you, those weapons aren't going to do you any good, anyway, since they have far more of them than you do stockpiled in your house and have many thousands of hands shooting them at you all at once, not just your two hands or your other family members' and friends' hands shooting one weapon at a time!! By all means, defend yourself from attack, but how many and varieties of guns are necessary for that purpose?!! You don't need an automatic or semi-automatic or AK-47 rifle for that purpose or for going hunting, for the reason stated above, and because shooting that many bullets into a deer will destroy and ruin the meat!! If the criminals get their hands on grenade launchers or dirty bombs or fly a plane into your house (as the terrorists did to the World Trade Center and Pentagon) or even nuclear weapons. do you have to get those things, too, for "self defense"?!! When is enough enough or do we have to always keep escalating this "small" arms race and spiraling it out of control because of the criminals?!! Gun rights fanatics think that they are the only people who have any rights at all and just nobody else has any rights, but your rights just don't supercede all other people's rights, such as students and people in church and people in movie theaters and people in malls and everywhere else's right not to be shot at and killed by crazy people who "think", as you do, that their "right" to do whatever in the Hell that they want to do to whomever they want to do it is the only "right" that matters or even exists!!!! True rights and freedoms are maintained by give and take on these things and not one group (say, YOURS!!!!) getting all of the rights and nobody else's having any and by balancing our rights and freedoms with other people's!!!
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The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti
These ideas are misguided and lack any foundation in facts. Whoever told them to you failed to do their homework. You cannot prove that lies are true by citing other lies. Of course people who believe in the constitution know that every citizen has the right to keep and bear arms. We have a bill of rights, not a bill of needs or a bill of lefts. If you don't like guns, don't buy one - no one will force you to do so. The main problem with leftists is their failure to understand cause and effect, and the failure to distinguish between law-abiding citizens with guns and criminals with guns. First acquaint yourself with the facts before you try to decide what other people think. Did you know that people with concealed-weapons licenses are 13 times less likely to commit a crime than people who are not licensed? Moreover, people with concealed-weapons licenses are also six times less likely to commit a felony than police. Whenever a government infringes on constitutional rights, people die for lack of the ability for effective self defense. Learn the facts before you attempt to lecture others. You can start with the amicus briefs in the Peruta case. It is on SCOTUS blog. Use these keywords in your search.
Our thoughts and prayers are with the millions of people and their families who died because they were disarmed by their government(s) and, therefore, unable to defend themselves.
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Rev. John D. Partin
"The Rev. Dr." Marion G. Ceruti, no statements are proved to be actually lies just because you and some other conservatives here say that "they are lies" and the rest of us just have to go along with your assertion and say: "Oh, well, the great Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti says that they are lies and so I guess that it must be true, huh? I mean, you couldn't have said it if it weren't true, now could you, never lying at all yourself (to hear you tell it!). The day that I start believing any conservatives about anything at all, much less what is true or false, is the day that I'll go out looking for a bridge or some "prime Florida real estate" (swamp land) to buy from someone because believing all of you about "truth and lies" would be just as SUCKERISH!!! as buying those things would be and I would be ready to buy them at that point!! You conservatives believe that "all liberal statements are lies", anyway, and so you aren't really a very objective source to listen to about liberalism, anymore than Nazis are about Jews or Klansmen about black people or Muslims about white people or any other group about people whom they hate!! I would never listen to any of them about their target groups and so would never listen to you about liberals, for the same reason: you are totally biased on the subject!! You think that your lies about yourselves and others are "the truth" and the truth about yourselves and others are "lies" and so it isn't even possible to have an intelligent conversation with people, such as you, who have everything upside down and ass backwards and inverted in your "thinking" and world view. "Woe unto those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter" (Isaiah 5:20). That is the God that you claim to "believe in" condemning just such inversion as you practice! Just putting "The Rev. Dr." in front of your name doesn't actually make you either a true reverend or a doctor because, if that were the case, many other frauds down through history would have been the real thing, which they weren't, and "Reverend" Richard Butler of the Church of Jesus Christ--Aryan Nations and "Christian Identity" movement and others who have hidden behind religion and "Christianity", as you do, to promote their own agenda would also have been actual ministers, instead of the con men and racists that they and you are!!! If you want other people and myself to stop putting your title in quotation marks, then stop hiding behind it just to promote your agenda of killing, gun promotion, belligerence, lying about liberals and others, pharisaical conservatism, and right-wing neo-Nazism!! "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God" said your alleged "Lord and Master Jesus Christ", but we would never be able to tell that Jesus is your Lord and Master by anything that you are saying in this blog (unless you really think that Jesus was a gunslinger and promoted guns and killing, too!) and we would just have to take your word for that and go out and buy some bridges and swamp land again!! Bring yourself up to the dignity of your claimed title, not the title down to your level and filthy it with that!! Liberals and Democrats aren't against people's defending themselves and RESPONSIBLE and REASONABLE gun ownership and use, since many of us are gun owners ourselves, but we don't have to have automatic or semiautomatic or AK-47 rifles and arsenals of weapons in our homes for self-defense, as I already stated in the post to which you replied here, and only require a handgun or rifle or shotgun for that purpose. You can quote reports and statistics to the stars and until the cows come home, but as long as you are doing it from your biased perspective and agenda, you are only confirming yourself in that bias and agenda and not actually proving any other point here!! "People with concealed weapons licenses are 13 times less likely to commit a crime than those without licenses", if nothing else goes wrong for them and they don't shoot someone in a bar out of anger or a spouse who is cheating on them or for some other reason not requiring them to be crazy per se. Concentrate far more on the heavenly wisdom from above, as befits an actual Rev. Dr., and not on the earthly wisdom of conservatives and gun rights fanatics and nuts here below!!
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Rev. John D. Partin
"The Rev. Dr." Marion G. Ceruti, "Come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you" (2 Corinthians 6:17). This verse of Scripture tells you to come away from the ways of the gun-loving and gun rights' nuts world, if you don't need absolutely everything spelled out for you and can read between the lines and understand what it is saying, and to not touch any unclean thing (and there isn't anything more unclean than a gun that kills people!!). Come out of all that and be separate!! Ministers, such as you claim to be, aren't supposed to be supporting and on the side of such belligerent and militaristic and pro-death people as these gun rights' nuts are!! Or are you going to dismiss this Scripture verse as "more left wing lies to support lies" or just "reinterpret" it (FALSIFY it!!) to make it mean what you want it to mean?! "Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing, and perfect will" (Romans 12:2). Your just going along with the gun rights' nuts and urging them on is conforming to this world, as this Scripture verse tells you not to do, the same as "Rev." Richard Butler of the Church of Jesus Christ--Aryan Nations, did by his having gone along with white supremacy and racism and all other so-called "ministers", such as yourself, do by making "Christianity" go along with and support whatever you want to make it support and dragging Jesus into it, grieving his heart, and propping him up, like a ventriloquist's dummy, to make him say and "support" whatever you want!!! You and your ilk are worse enemies of Jesus and Christianity than anything that you claim "liberals are doing to them"!! Are you going to follow your supposed "Lord and Master Jesus Christ" or these gun rights' nuts? Jesus said: "No man can serve two masters", but that is what you and your ilk are trying to do by "interpreting" this verse of Scripture and others like it to make them mean whatever you want them to mean, so that you can go on fencesitting and saying that "gun rights' nuts and Christianity are compatible and the same", implicitly, and not have to choose between them!! Jesus also said: "My kingdom is not of this world". Only if his kingdom were of this world could you and your kind claim that you were loyal to and in line with the kingdom of Christ by supporting and urging on the gun rights' nuts, but since his kingdom isn't of this world, you can't honestly do so. Your phony prayers for all of those who have died because they didn't have guns to defend themselves with are just more of your attempts to camouflage your worldliness with a show of "piety" and "concern for others". Anyway, here is still more proof, even if you don't accept it as proof and will dismiss it (the same as you do these Scripture verses) of the wrongness of gun rights' nuts "thinking": www.towleroad.com/2017/10/adolf-hitler-gun-control/, which is The False and Insulting Argument About Hitler, Guns, and the Jews by Ari Ezra Waldman. https://m.huffpost.cm.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_59d6405ce4b0666d0c3b34, which is Why The Arguments Against Gun Control Are Wrong by David Edward Burke, President of www.citizenstakeaction.org. https://listverse.com/2013/04/21/10-arguments-for-gun-control/ That is quite enough casting more pearls before swine, pouring water over the rocks of (and in) your and John Owens and other gun rights' nuts' heads, and wearing myself out on you IDIOTS!!! for now!!! But as Marshall Poole told Bluebonnet Spearman and Charles Travis Postlewaite in Open Range: "I'll be seeing you gents again real soon. You can count on that!". Don't try to trade shots with me!! You're outgunned!!
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Carl Elfstrom
I don't know of any billionaire who has ever had control over me. My billionaire relatives won't even associate with me. I guess they're scared I'll try to get their money, and rightfully so. Then I'd buy a T.V. station and become a christian televangelist. Praise the Lord! So please clarify yourself, Tom. Surely you're not talking about soon to be ousted Orangutrump. I've never supported him at all. I know some young thugs who sell dope. And I agree wholeheartedly that the right kind of buzz will change the world. The best one for that is called a yellow butterfly, so I've heard. It combines ecstasy with acid, which always ensures a good trip. We will have many " Religious" experiences, and those young people will usher in a new age. Amen, Brother! You are so right.
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Carl Elfstrom
And I've heard young people love opioids now too. That will turn well behaved children into activivists, with rotten teeth. That makes them even scarier. And you better do what they say, or they'll cry and have temper tantrums. And you better not spank them or they'll call child protective services, or shoot you. And these are the kind of young people y'all think are going to run this country.
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Rev. John D. Partin
"Rev. Dr." Marion G. Ceruti, as John Owens says when people don't respond to his posts: "Crickets". If you are so certain that all of my posts above are wrong, let's see your reasons for thinking so. If not to convince me, then for your base and like-"minded" conservatives, who are waiting for you to "prove the liberal wrong". Don't keep your axis members waiting!!
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Manny Magoo
Nice opinion you have of yourself. Good luck with that.
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Carl Elfstrom
I appreciate everything that's been said, and agree whole heartedly. Thankyou.
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Carl Elfstrom
I for one never liked children, never wanted any, and will never have any. Considering all the problems they cause everyone else should follow suit. Then we'll be extinct and the other animals can have this planet. They live better than we do anyway,and don't require nearly as much.
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Hoggdogg
Listen,too all lest stop it trashing someone who hit the wrong key bet you never hit the wrong key all sound like 5 th graders i will get you at recess come all we need to stop this hate start loving all we all need to love all differnt color and i dont care if someone trash me because i dont care it makes me to pray for the person gods peace too all so start showing the love that why the world is so mean
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Carl Elfstrom
Wesley, it all starts from within, and how we interpret things.
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Carl Elfstrom
Wesley, nobody on this blog is any color. All we are are words. But I want you to know that I'm purple with orange dots. Don't tell anyone. That's our secret. I might not even be from this planet, but I'm not prejudiced against you, whatever you are or anyone else, even if I make mistakes and my words don't sound good all the time. You are a good person, and I wish you all the best.
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Carl Elfstrom
Don't believe everything you hear on this blog. I was a teenage hippy, and finally have long hair again now, but my drivers license photo depicts me with a shaved head, that I'm starting to miss. I wear cowboy boots and a hat anyway, so I wouldn't seem out of place. And this month I'm getting my twenty four year chips from A.and N.A., and rightfully so. My main drink is coffee, the drink of the program, and I've been going to meetings for thirty four years. I've even com0leted a year of training to be a counselor. I know my methods are a bit brash, but they'll get you to think, and I'm getting lots of practice on this blog. Thankyou
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Carl Elfstrom
I'll fill y'all in on just one more secret,after which y'all are on your own, and better read between the lines, or else! I cried out loud when I heard of Billy Graham's death, and prayed for his soul. Go figure.
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Carl Elfstrom
I think I'm going to shave my head today. I'm through investigating hippies anyway, and must snap back to reality. I'll be investigating rednecks again soon. Did I tell y'all I completed a year long course called private investigator, with a 99% overall grade average. It helps to have a way with words. It's called the gift of gab. And don't confuse that with talking in tongues. I've been known to do that too.
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Carl Elfstrom
I guess it beats playing cowboys and Indians, but I had a lot of fun doing that as a kid.
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The Doctor
I see the typical jesters and trash talkers came out in force here just like always when they feel under attack. They are so consumed with fear and paranoia that they cant imagine the world ever changing for the better and feel the need to prepare for the bad times they secretly want to see come to pass, convinced they have what it takes to survive and those they hate will suffer and perish.
I see little in the way of genuine spirituality or a desire to seek enlightenment let alone the wisdom to help others seek a path to understanding others and striving to set aside pettiness to pursue peace.
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Carl Elfstrom
T'Keren, it might be a good time for you to go out in the dessert alone, and have a vision quest.
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The Doctor
I did that years ago Carl. For 3 days I sat on a mountain top fasting. It was then that I came to understand that humanity is flawed and only be purging our species of flaws and each and everyone of us becoming equal by each being perfect could peace ever come to pass.
Until we truly are all superior people we will only be consumed by fear and divide ourselves.
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Carl Elfstrom
It sounds like you're on the right track. Keep up the good work, T'Keren.
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Carl Elfstrom
I can see such superiority of the human species eventually, but not within the lifetimes of anyone who is now living. For now it might be best to visualize a better tomorrow, while living in the present moment, and hope and pray that it comes to pass.
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The Doctor
Actually I am very hopeful that with the current progress in gene therapy we may see in another generation or two a future akin to that depicted in the film Gattaca. A few generations after that when people are finally free of physical flaws that undermine confidence and have perfectly balanced brain chemistry we may well see a global society develop that surpasses the best of our speculative fiction writers.
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Carl Elfstrom
I think we've figured out here that children are still children, and need to behave the way adults think they should, not the other way around. Some of them will be allowed to protest before mass assemblies, usually quoting only speeches we have prepared for them,and only after they've done their chores and homework. And they better be home in time for supper, or they'll be grounded for the rest of the day.
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Holly
This article is not a complete story of the kids from Parkland. There is another young man who is doing great work who survived the shooting. His name is Kyle Kashuv. He should have been included here for a more fair and balanced piece.
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Carl Elfstrom
The better we get to know each other on this blog the less we'll seem like words on paper, and the more we will like and respect each other. Some of our comments are very heated and harsh, and sometimes even scary. However, our comments don't necessarily reflect our true selves, but only our feelings regarding a certain subject, at a certain time. This blog makes a good sounding board, which helps prevent us from keeping our feelings bottled up inside, but it's all to easy for us to get carried away with what we're saying, and become offensive. I am deeply ashamed of some of the things I have said on this blog, and am very sorry if I have offended any of you. I am not a bad person, and don't want any of you to think I am. This blog is my first experience with social media, and I don't see any reason why I'd want to use any of the rest of it. I abhor Facebook and Twitter, and never even send e-mails or text messages. However, I do have an addictive mind, and have become quite obsessed with this blog. As with my other addictions, except for coffee, it might be best for me to abstain from it for a while, while I persue other interests. I might even go to church. Don't put it past me. I've actually been thinking about it. I guess y'all can tell that I'm very introspective, at least in retrospect. It may be caused from having written a lot of fourth and tenth steps. I've also gotten better at taking fifth steps, as y'all might have gathered, and I never get tired of talking or writing ( which in my case could be a character defect). So, I'm going to take a long break, or should I say sabbatical from this blog, and when I return I shall do so refreshed, with much more positive comments. Thankyou.
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John Maher
CARL ELFSTROM, if NO WHERE ELSE YOU WILL SURELY BECOME a LEGEND in YOUR OWN MIND !!!
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Carl Elfstrom
But John Mayer sir, I am already a legend in my own mind. And, "Oh Lord it's hard to be humble when I'm perfect in every way." But it doesn't hurt me to practice a little humility every once in a while. It might even be good for my soul.
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Tom B
Carl...it was interesting reading your "mea culpa"...in no way have i considered you to be a bad person...everything that happens is meant to happen...if your previous writings, and the reactions to them, lead to your being more positive (loving), then that is a good thing...there is no reason for anyone to be offended...you, like everyone else, are a soul on your spiritual path...Peace...Tom
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Carl Elfstrom
Thankyou,Tom.
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Carl Elfstrom
What a difference a day makes! Those mini vision quests are wonderful. I'm already feeling refreshed and positive, and ready to do a lot more ministering on this blog.
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MICHAEL SPINELLI
If you can not see the problem .I will tell you. Most families there is no more child parent bonding .What they see from the parent hopelessness, anger, moral decline, no leadership. They are involved in mature games on their computer. They grow up either on line or in the hood. Most have minimal education .Or educated by teachers that are not pro in the american way or the Lord .These children are the problem caused directly by the parent .We are on a path of complete destruction of our country. I saw a plaque in a church that said " Children he who wants them will have them" I am afraid that they have already been taken. God bless our country as we are a doomed country.
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Carl Elfstrom
Of course, there's a big difference between public schools and private ones, and the kids who attend them. I bet the future leaders of this nation will be at least mostly comprised of former students of private schools whose parents are intelligent and well educated, like it's always been. So rest assured, our future will be in good hands, as long as we vote for the right candidates, and impeach Donald Trump.
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Nick
The kids are being used as political pawns nothing is new or heroic here God Bless their unwitting hearts?
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H Allan
If they don't feel they are responsible or wise enough to own guns, how can they believe they are old enough to remove the rights of others?
Guns are not the issue here. Violence is, and being anti-gun doesn't make you anti violence, as violence is the only tool behind any law.
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Theda Bara
Anybody notice it's the same angry dumbasses that keep making comments and responding? That's because they wanna pick a fight. Like a drunk guy in a bar who's in such a stupor, he can't make out reality or respect anyone's boundaries but his own...he's right, he knows everything, he knows better than you, he'll fight you and get his buddies to help...Most of us just ignore it and wait for balloon to deflate cuz we know it will.
These same dumbasses are so out of touch with reality that they fail to realize that these students, some of whom experienced heinous trauma and have every right to be emotional about it, are already or will be voting age soon. So, liberal or parental pawns notwithstanding, they will vote and give their money to candidates who stand with their beliefs. That's gonna create a power shift. Sober yet?
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John Maher
WELL SAID and THOUGHT, the TRUMPSHYTES are the FIRST to SCREAM NAZI as they SALUTE DOTAR ORANGUtRUMP, HAIL to the APEPUTO !!!
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Carl Elfstrom
Go girl !!!
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Linda Happenny
Sometimes I have trouble expressing myself(doing better) and what you said Lin is what I have been trying to say. Getting on my "Magic Bus" and taking a few friends to the March4OurLives. Standing with our future. Yea Goddess!
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JCSGSD
This entire story is based on the activism of crisis actors....get real. Literally get real..... the kid with the ROTC was not allowed by CNN to say what wanted to because they wanted him to “stay on script”. Why for Gods sake, would anyone have to have child actors and SCRIPTS if this weren’t being fueled by an outside source? This is NOT a movement by children this is NAZISM at its finest.
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Nyx
I think it’s great that kids are standing up for the Cause they believe in. Some people may say their to young to understand but in this day in age, and them being in high school I consider them not to be kids they are young adult who are going to do something with their lives.
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Terry Williams
These "kids" are pawns in the game of politics. I wonder who the organizers are?
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Terri
The "adult" libs and dems see these kids as just one more opportunity to try to destroy the 2nd amendment. They are filling these kids full of their BS and making them think that it's the only way. Leading them around like a litter of puppies that have lost's their mom. It is a crying shame they stoop so low to attempt to manipulate our kids with their hidden agendas. The past is attempting to repeat itself. The difference now is that the majority of the American people are smart enough to see what they are attempting to do not buy what they are selling. The dems and libs which seem to dominate the main stream media are bought and paid for by those that continue to dominate Anti American ideas are too stupid to see they are being brainwashed or they are so wraped up in themselves and the money they worship they continue to move forward with this destructive behavior. There is an awful lot of wicked things going on and I am pretty sure the demons of hell have been loosed. We as Christians need to stand strong and realize what we are really battling and battle hard and with righteousness and the direction of God. All of these organizers are nothing but pawns of the new world order of which are wicked to their core. Parents need to become parents and understand their children need Christian leadership and direction from them, so they had better learn it themselves and do something now.
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John Owens
Amen, Terri.
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The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti
Dear Pastor Terri,
Thank you for making these valid points. Many media outlets will not tell you anything about the students who support the 2nd amendment, or the numerous times citizens have used guns to prevent crime vs. the number of times criminals have used guns in the commission of a crime. The ratio is 360 to 100, respectively. If the schools taught history factually and if most of the news media told the truth, almost no one would support the attempts of the left to destroy our rights.
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LtBil Drat
I see the problem of the students or press falsely labeling it a walkout to honor the dead when, in fact, it's just another civil disobedience ploy. When people die, the leftwingers lie.
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John Owens
Well put, Bil.
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Cris
Let’s try this for fun. Instead taking the weapon used to kill, since it was just a method, find out the reason. He wanted to go to his school and kill people. That was the reason. They stop people from buying automatic guns. Then the next gun will either steal one or use a shot gun. Those go then knives and machetes. If some wants to commit mass murder bad enough they will. It doesn’t matter how they do it they will do it. If the students are worried about safety how about looking at ways not to bring to stop the ability to bring guns into the school. Stronger school safety. Or outreach programs for people to stop things like this from happening again. It’s students trying to change a method and not a cause. Not everyone should be punished for the actions of a few
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The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti
Dear Pastor Cris,
You have made a very good point here. For example, the MS-13 gang mostly uses machetes and baseball bats to commit horrific crimes in gun-controlled New York State. Gun laws disarm law-abiding citizens, not criminals.
No one should have to give up their cars because other people drive drunk. This is absurd, but when it comes to guns, all logic is suspended and emotions seem to take over.
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JK
I normally do not chime in on on comments at all, but this time I feel I must. As it has been said it is not a gun problem it is a human problem. You can remove the gun from the the masses, but that will not stop any evil minded person from committing an act of murder using another device as an weapon. For example, in Japan the student who killed people with a sword, the man who killed people with a knife in Germany, all the knife killing and injuries all over the world. You are not going to stop it until you deal with the real problem PEOPLE. I feel the justice system is the major problem here, the punishments do not fit the crimes. We put murders on death row and they sit there for 10+ years before they are executed. Some rapists get a slap on the wrist and are let go. Let me give you another example that would deter a would be criminal. If murder was made a federal crime and there was all the evidence as in a witness, the weapon, the DNA etc, The criminal should be put to death within a three months time, no plea barging, no stays on death row for years, etc. IF a rapist is convicted with all the evidence no prison terms, just a simple numb of the genital area and cut the junk off and then let them go. I bet you with out a doubt in my mind that the would be criminals knowing the punishments they will face, they would think twice before committing the acts. As it has been said before a gun cannot and will not just jump up and go on a killing spree all by itself, it needs a human to pick it up and use it in a manner to hurt someone else. The same goes for a knife, a hammer, bat, a tire iron, the list goes on and on. The way of thinking that by removing the "gun" from the list of possible tools for a criminal to use will lessen the acts of violence, is a totally flawed way of thinking. The only real way to deter the acts of violence that people commit is to make the punishments worse than the crime it self. This sets in motion in the mind of the criminal that no matter what they themselves will be punished in a way similar to the crime, a deterrent that will make a would be criminal think before acting.
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Carl Elfstrom
Maybe we can dig up Judge Roy Bean, and revive him, or at least find out who he's been reincarnated into, and swear him in. He'll put a stop to all these shenanigans. Just make sure he has access to plenty of rope.
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videoscenes
I agree that this student “protest” is organized and executed by established organizations. The students have no business in walking out of school. They need to stay in school. It’s absurd to think that more gun control will somehow legislate EVIL. In Europe where “no guns” is the rule....EVIL simply finds other methods such as knives, bats, tire irons etc. More gun control IS NOT the answer. More security, arming teachers or officials that wish to be armed IS the answer.
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john shephard
These children are ignorant pawns exploited by ignorant and shallow left-wing adults while the kids are in a traumatized and emotional state.. hese kids are already exposed to much left-wing bias. They live in a heavily biased left-wing district and are in a left-wing environment, a school, which is staffed by teachers who belong to the left-wing teachers union. Their marches are reported with great fanfare by the corrupt left-wing media who deceive the public by actively not reporting any marches that are right-wing, unless they can protray them as causing violence. Two days ago there was a school shooting in Maryland. You will likely not hear about it if you watch or listen to left-wing propaganda outlets like CNN, NPR or MSNBC. A shooter at the school was shot and killed by the school's armed guard after the shooter had shot but not killed two other people. Guns are neutral, like knives or cars. If we ban them, all violence, which originates in the mind, will not cease. They can be used to kill people, sometimes as a form of protection to save lives. It is a very shallow approach, so typical of the left, to want to ban guns. It is very typical of them to promote people as victims and exploit them further towards their own shallow ends that will help nothing. If the left had banned all rocks, or at least declared them illegal to use as weapons, Cain still would have killed Abel. Let us think more deeply on these matters. For one, the left-wingers that predominate Hollywood could stop making so many movies that glorify violence. We understand their vain ego desires to be rich and powerful drive them to do this, but they are also children of God and could learn to use their industry to glorify love and peace instead, if they would be willing to feel and think more deeply on the issue of violence in society.. This is just one element in a larger solution, but it is a good place to start along with the recognition that these problems require deeper solutions than banning a neutral object. We agree on the ends, just not yet the means.
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The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti
Dear Pastor Shepard,
You have made some very valid points. The left-wing bias in our schools amounts to child abuse. It is interesting that the California gun laws have special carve-outs so the Hollywood movie industry can use machine guns in pursuit of more and more gratuitous violence. On one hand they want to disarm the public. On the other hand, they want to keep THEIR guns to continue to make money.
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Dr. Ken Salchow
I am consistently amazed at how many people get tunnel vision when it comes to hot-button issues like "guns". The opioid epidemic, gun violence, or general divisiveness in our society are not problems themselves, they are symptoms of underlying problems. I suspect the underlying problems might even come from the same source. As long as we do nothing but argue about how to address the symptoms, we will forever fail to solve the problems.
I am also consistently amazed at how this tunnel vision renders intelligent human beings from recognizing how applying solutions already proven a failure in one arena will likely prove ineffectual in another. We have spent the past 3 decades executing a "war on drugs". We have increased punishments, made numerous laws, spent millions of dollars. Despite that, we now have an opiod problem that has reached epidemic proportions. Never mind that as class II controlled substances, opiods are highly regulated already, it is exacerbated by readily available, and cheap alternatives to prescription medications on the street. Despite our best efforts to regulate and legislate drugs, we find ourselves still plagued by illegal drug use and global, brutal drug cartels. This shouldn't have been a surprise. We tried the same thing with alcohol earlier in the 20th century with similar results while simultaneously spawning the rise of organized crime. And yet, somehow intelligent people truly believe that stronger legislation will somehow suddenly work if only it were applied to guns. Creating a law, won't have any positive effect, but like in the case of alcohol and drugs, may have serious negative effects.
I'm sure we can all agree that the world would be better without guns; however, unless you can eliminate all guns on the planet and erase all capability/knowledge related to developing guns, it is a waste of time, money, and energy. Bad people do bad things; and, sometimes the only way to stop bad people from doing bad things is to meet them with similar or superior force. I don't like it any more than anyone else, but this is the state of the human condition. We are animals. We do horrible things. And, it only takes one bad one to shatter the lives of many good people.
Our time would be better spent in understanding the actual source of these symptoms. Adequately addressing the spectrum of mental health in the U.S. would make a huge contribution, eliminating tens of thousands of self-inflicted gun-related deaths alone, while also potentially having positive effects on numerous other aspects of our society (like drug- and alcohol-related deaths). The more time and energy we spend debating the symptoms, the longer and harder it gets to actually finding a solution.
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Jim D.
Well said, Doc.
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Minister James Owen
We all need to set back and think what is the cause and who is doing the killing. The kids are killing each other and most are using their parents guns. Kids now days are being baby sit by a game console and games that glorify killing people and police officers. What should we expect. I am a Police officer and i deal with kids every day. I have went on calls to homes and listened to the kids calling their parents all kind of nasty names and back talking them and me. The lack of discipline and not taking these game consoles away is a problem. Get these kids back in church tear their rear end up if they need it and get them some discipline. I have guns in my home and they are in a gun safe and only i know the combination. Make the shooters and anyone else that leaves a gun at their disposal accountable. Guns do not kill people people kill people. A child was killed with a bat today are we going to ban bats,cars with drunk drivers kill families are going to ban cars? Lets be sensible about it. Raise your kids up to respect others don't let them have access to your guns and get them back to believing in God. All these problems started when we took Prayer out of school and letting our kids tell us what to do. When i went to school we brought guns to school in our trucks and no one tried to steal them or shoot anyone with them. We traded pocket knives all the time and no one cut any one. We fought each other and then later on that day we were playing ball together and talking about how stupid the fight was. Lack of discipline, and letting kids rule the roost is the problem. God Bless the families of the ones that have lost their lives to gun violence or any other type of violence and God Bless the ones who lost their lives.
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The Doctor
You disgust me greatly John Owens. Church is not a place for children, only adults that have chosen that path for themselves. You are clearly a prime example of the blue mafia that thrives on intimidation and feels that people especially children should live in fear of you.
Your blessings are like bile spewed on those that have survived. They do not want it from those festering with corruption and polluting the world with fear mongering and bigotry as you do.
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Carl Elfstrom
T'Keren, Have you tried relaxation CDs?
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John Owens
You hate-filled shrew! That wasn't even my comment. That guy's name is James Owen, and your remarks are so full of parroted Left-speech they are mindless. Bile? Spewed? Commie speak. You are a bunion on the butt of humanity. Fear mongering and bigotry? That's YOU, Wench. You make it all up.
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The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti
Dear Pastor Owen,
Thank you again for your thoughtful post. We tried to take prayer out of the schools but only group prayer was affected. No one can stop a student from praying silently, (especially during exams.) The concept of separation of religious institutions and state has been expanded to include areas that the founding fathers never intended. The result is to prohibit religious expression in places where it might do more good to focus on our spiritual connections, rather than for everyone to pretend that God does not exist. The original idea of separation was to prohibit a state-mandated religion, not to get rid of all religious expression in public places.
You are right about the lack of discipline. I remember when we had weapons in schools, such as bows and arrows. No one thought of attacking people. When we get rid of the spiritual underpinnings of society, we invite a slide down a slippery slope into atheism, communism, and tyranny.
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Dr. David
What is probably most bothersome to me is the willingness to punish people who have done nothing by taking away their God Given Right to Protect their self, to provide for their self, and to enjoy recreational activities.
Ask some parallel questions about things like "smart phones", vehicles, hammers, knives, and so on. There are literally millions of firearms in this country owned by law abiding citizens who would never think of doing the things a very small group of people have done. These people who own all these firearms are not the problem, they are among the most law abiding citizens in this country. Just this last week there was a "mass" murder where four adults were bludgeoned to death and there was no media coverage to speak of, no protests, etc. The Austin bomber did not use a firearm, the guy that used a rented vehicle did not use a firearm, Timothy McVeigh did not use a firearm. People who are sick and violent need to be helped, and even more importantly society needs to be protected from them.
I work with some very mentally and emotionally challenged people who require 24/7 supervision and there are so many out in society who should receive that same level of supervision. These are people with violent pasts, yet not one of them that I work with committed their crime with a firearm.
Violence will always exist, and we need well trained people who do the right thing at the right time to do their best to minimize violence. It starts with enforcing existing laws.
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Ron
What many people fail to understand is the very freedoms that they enjoy today are at least in part because of the people's right to bear arms. The liberal education system will not include this in there history books, but at the end of WWII the Japanese admitted that a land invasion on US soil had been considered, but it was decided against. Not because the feared our military response, but because they knew they would face an armed populace. These students have no idea that they are protesting one of the very things that have preserved there right to protest anything.
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The Doctor
Utter tripe. The japanese based on numerous documents wanted nothing more then to be left alone and treated as equals. They were allies to us in WWI and we betrayed them by restrictingtheir access to the pacific.
We pushed them to the point that the attack on Pearl harbor was seen by them as an act of survival and was picked because it was a military target in a region they deemed unjustly seized by the U.S.
They actually had an active advanced weapons program developing focussed radiation weapons with ashort range meant to defend their territory so they could be left in peace.But we stole the uranium made by the germans and used it to make weapons to kill masses of civilians.
The U.S. in the end was the biggest monster of WWII. The Nazi may have killed more, but we killed in a far more evil fashion. We sundered not just bodies but destroyed souls. That is what vaporizing people does, it kills the very soul. Gas and fire kill life. Radiation can melt a soul to nothing.
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Ron
So you totally missed the point of my post. Congratulations.
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John Owens
"Liberalism IS a mental disorder," Ron. I didn't miss the point. Good point.
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Professor
Wow, you were on a roll until you talked about what kills the soul.
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The Doctor
Prof you are free to think as you will, I however suspect that the soul of the earhtly body is not immune to all forms of damage. I view the way radiation can sunder the very bonds between atoms as a very likely way to kill the earthly soul.
You see I subscribe to a view held by some ancient eastern philosophies that we have 2 souls, the soul of the earhly body and the soul of the heavenly spirit. I suspect this is a very accurate way of describing how we have energy that forms the physical body, and the electrical energy that fires in our synapses.
While that energy released when we think will send out vibrations that will pass through the universe much like radio waves for all of time, I feel its a real possibility that when the energy that holds our physical form is utterly destroyed which is nigh impossible short of radiation then so to is that soul destroyed. Since I feel this is the part of us that reincarnates, while the heavenly soul becomes part of something greater. Destroying the earthly soul is something that should only be done for those earthly bodies that should never be for example in the case of inbred people.
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Gregory Bledsoe
Allow them to stand their ground, no one else has, remember these kids are our future politicians, priests, nurse's, firefighter's, doctor's, Congressperson's or President, their going to shape this countries future. so allow them to stand their ground and fight and stand up for what they believe in. Hell we haven't stood up for them with our petty bickering over our right to bear arms and protect our families when in truth we are the one that have failed them. I commend these kids for standing up for what they believe in. Its time to end the Gun laws and find other ways to protect our families time to turn in all the guns especially the Ar-15's What Civilian needs an AR-15 When they were built for military needs and military needs only, that was a weapon built for war or better yet would cut an enemy in half sideways or vertically. These are the dangers of this country. Our Government is ignoring our Warnings and keep ignoring our warnings, what is it going to take for them to finally pay attention? What will it Take? Does anyone really know?
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Anthony Beaver
It is none of you business if I want to buy a AR-15!!! The 2nd Amendment was not put in place for hunting. It is there if were need to kill the Government for being slimey!!! Get a grip!!!
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Preacher Man
I agree 100%. But, you fail to consider that the government has a military that has mortars, bazookas, tanks, missiles, etc. If you think that a handful of people with assault rifles are a match for all of that, you've watched too many Rambo movies.
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Barbara Fellows
So thankful that youth are standing up for gun control. I just wish more were aware of the movements here on the west coast of Oregon and northern California. So many just bury their heads in the sand as they're too busy with their own lives to pay attention to what's going on in the real world.
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Christian
More than 40,000,000 children have been killed by abortion, where is the student protest against the Genocide of Youth ?
Ban Abortion, Ban the Death Penalty, Ban tobacco, alcohol, and cars, Ban Crime, and Ban Free Will, finally, Ban all Police and government from using firearms.
Then come back and tell me the virtues of disarming the civilian population to ensure the ease of occupation and submission without resistence.
All religions can be completely removed, once it is assured they will be unable to protect themselves, just like in the 1930s. The Government shall be your God. The State will be your religion.
[Hint: If Hitler & Stalin & Pol Pot loved the idea, it probably is a VERY bad idea. But children fail learning history, it seems.]
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The Doctor
no child has been killed via abortion, just stating that shows your true nature and invalidates your opinion. You are about as christian as a luciferian.
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John Owens
Geez, how can you say that?
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JOLENE MARCELLA TRAVIS
I live in Wyoming where anyone can carry openly. There has NEVER been a mass shooting in Wyoming outside of the wars against Army and Indians. It is my RIGHT and CHOICE to carry a gun. NO-ONE has the right to tell me what I can or can not do. As for listening to teens that is not something I am interested in doing as teens have no life experience and therefore can not provide adult level input. Till the day I die I will remain "Locked and Loaded" in Wyoming.
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The Doctor
Than let us hope Wyoming is the first to be targeted by the viral outbreaks the government will use to deal with armed dissidents.
You live in a society, so yes you very much live in a world where you do not get to dictate what you can or can not do. And Id say these teens who have survive a school shooting have more meaningful life experience then a crazy 2nd cultist inbred hick who still calls the people of the tribal nations indians.
News flash Indians come from India you ignorant bigoted cretin.
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biblical scholar
There is a paltry 500k people in your "state". Just by the laws of probability, there won't be a shooting in your state, because no one lives there.
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Wanda
The children should sit down until they know more about the topic they are protesting. They are being organized and used like pawns by adults with an agenda. This mirrors how Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, and Hitler used the youth of their country to push an agenda and the results were disastrous.
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Anthony Beaver
This is all about control. Who ever has the guns make the laws. Look at Hitler and others like him. Have we not learned from the past? As members of Mother Earth we have rights to help others and protect ourselves. I live by a higher way of life. The US Army Special Forces trained me to do my job, but to serve and protect too. I wish that this generation can get a grip and grow up to be strong in heart. This is all about the teachers pushing for gun control. I watch the news and the one girl that was on TV was not a student there. She is a 22 year old Porn Star that is paid by the left wing to pull stunts like this. You people need to find the truth in everything??? Good luck with that...
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The Doctor
You sir disgust me. Another liar insulting a young lady lucky to be alive by spreading blatant falsehoods.
I call upon the void to consume your soul and keep it forever in oblivion.
You will never know a better life nor enlightenment for whatever god you pray to is powerless against the Lord of Demonkind.
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Brian
GO KIDS GO! Change the world. Your parents and grand parents have done a crap job. It is up to you now, Keep up the good work!
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Preacher Man
The liberals who are using these children as political pawns are bigger cowards than the ones pulling the trigger. If they're to young to vote or to run for office, they're too young to have a say in government.
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The Doctor
Better fresh young minds then those of people over the age of 55 burn more brain cells a day just living then the biggest alcoholic teen ever to walk the face of the earth.
Frankly anyone over 55 has no business speaking their opinion as its invalid coming from a degenerating brain.
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Preacher Man
Spoken like a true three-year old.
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The Doctor
Such a well reasoned response. Does biological fact that older people are using constantly degenerating brains distress you so much?
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John Owens
So, you're saying younger people know more than older people? How could that even be possible?
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Tom B
T'Keren...i agree with our concept...the young are not hindered by politics and money protection...they are much more visceral and honest...btw, did you ever read "The Lottery", by Shirley Jackson?...Peace...Tom
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John Trefethen
The kids need to shut up, set down learn and listen. We as a nation have let the kids get away with way to much for way to long. We are turning are nation into a bunch of professional VICTIMS and drama queens. Not saying we should not have compassion for our fellow man, but not everyone is a winner in reality.
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Rick Williams
Public schools are nothing more than factories that produce atheists. Therefore I do not care what these brainwashed liberal atheists think, have to say or stand for.
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rabbi jim
Greetings all. Well, maybe the kids can accomplish some good results on gun control. Adults are too stupid! Shalom, and have a good day.
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Michael Fassel
You ever tried to have a conversation with a toddler about WW2? I'm thinking kids are at a disadvantage in the knowledge department.
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The Doctor
Knowledge is not the same as Int nor Wis.One can possess much knowledge and skill yet be utterly lacking in both the ability to understand and to reason.
Then again infants are too young to talk to consent to male genital mutilation practiced by Jews so I am kind of on the fence about which one of you two have the lower of those stats.
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Hoggdogg
Rabbi jim you said adults are too stipid shalom really what are you talking about its not the gun doing all of this killing its the person doing this its SANTAN works i dont know if you belive in SATAN. It all started when we took god out of our school nobody marches about a drunk driver who had too much. to drink budwiser or jack Daniels or so on .i dont know abour yor reglion bit i rebuks you in jesus name whst you said. About the adults
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The Doctor
Taking religion out of schools was a good first step now we need to take kids out of churches to complete it. Indoctrination of the young is evil as it gets.
And yes there was plenty of marching and protesting by groups like MADD( Mothers Against Drunk driving) back in the day which lead to harsher penalties for DUIs and a crack down on stores carding people. As well as it becoming SOP for randomized road checks during holidays to monitor for people driving drunk after partying.
Stop using Satan as a scapegoat. He is the first among angels even if he has fallen from grace and you a mere mortal owe such an entity respect.
WW Brown in my own name I condemn you to the darkness of the void for your soul to be consumed by Oblivion and to never join those with peace in their hearts in the realms of enlightenment.
See what trying to rebuke others in the name of a man that would loathe you for doing such gets you.
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Father Fred
From the news stories, and talking to the young, I have an appreciation that their passion is strong, but 99% don't know what they are protesting about. They are simply parrots all squawking because one parrot squawked. When engaging them in calm dialog the answers received are often quite convoluted and defy logic. It's all too reminiscent of 1930s Germany when the population was turning against the Jews, often without knowing why they were turning against them. But the smoking gun for me is the fact that when you ask them about other events, especially why they are not as jazzed up about killings in Chicago, and the murders of other innocents, they don't know anything about the events. They are just following the pack. The sad fact about our young today is there is no critical thinking. There is no reasoning, or logical application of facts. The passion is following what is posted on social media and the narrative of web sites and so-called news operations, coupled with feeding off each other. I know this is hugely unpopular, and smacks of voter repression, but I've always thought that to earn the right to vote you should have to serve in the military for a few years, and at least get by with a "C" grade or better in civics and history. I find that kids today put more thought into which iPhone to buy or which shoes to wear, than to research who the best leader is for our nation. And maybe that's why things are so screwed up. Votes are cast based on innuendos, marketing, rumor, and social media opinion.
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Brian H Davies JP. CMC.
As a lot of contributors know Australia's gun control laws have prevented a mass shooting of any form for some time now, but from what I am reading most of these shooters have been outcasts and most likely bullied to the point of utter desperation. If this is so maybe the first step to stop mass killings is to concentrate on mass non bullying education, & for starters ban mobile phones in schools so that kids can be educated in the three R's and not forever looking at social media and develop some good socialising skills instead of being liked or unliked by so called imaginary friends. Youth today is disconnected from reality that its almost as if they are being educated by reality TV shows and the last thing any young person needs to even think about is, Who I am going to get even with today and should I use a pistol or an assault rifle?
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Preacher Man
Why is this this subject even appearing on this Web site? This is supposed to be a religious forum, not a CNN political debate. I don't recall any quotes from Jesus regarding assault rifles and high capacity magazines. And, don't bother responding with quotes from the "thou shalt not kill" genre...you can kill with a rock or a club as easily as an assault rifle.
We need programs to help people with violent tendencies learn to deal with their anger. The problem has always been the logic process of the perpetrator, not the weapon of choice.
Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek. He didn't tell us to pass useless laws regarding striking one another.
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Secretary3rd
2000 years ago only the State had swords, spears and bow and arrows. If you were caught with one you were hung right there. There was a time in England that had only Lords and those of their castle that had any form of weapons. Even with WWI the common citizens did not have any weapons. In 1940 the US NRA made a call to its members for guns to be sent to England where farmers only defenses were pitch forks against the whole German army. The NRA members step up and donated. The Cook County Crime commission has stated that there are 50,000 proven gang members. How well armed are they.is anyone's guess. In Chicago along with the students were local gang members who also voice the displeasure of people having guns. Wjhat was interesting is that these marchers were exchangeing the home address
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Sandra Holcombe
Children are our future. Whatever the reason, I think it is great that kids are starting to speak there minds. As you will see in the above photos they are from all nations and cultures. They define our future.
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Erik Facundo
Kids have always spoken their minds. As far back as the 1960's. They have spoken but rarely ever shown what true leadership and bravery is.
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Gwendolyn Lord
I am amused by this constant debate about gun ownership. And saddened by the bodies on the ground because there is no control, and no cohesive method for solving a cultural problem of a society that has always glorified firearms and violence. Why is this Amendment more important than others? It is time to reassess Amendments that are now archaic and do not serve the purpose they were originally formulated to protect citizenry and keep safety and control in our budding colonies and territory. Why is there no clamor to prevent troops from being thrust into our homes and quartered there? Why no outrage over suing for settlements over twenty dollars? The right to bear arms, we had no army. A Militia was the "army" of citizens. The right to bear arms: "Fighting" Native Americans as we absorbed their territories and violated the rights they were not allowed to have. The right to bear arms: Hunting for food, and hunting to prevent predators from depleting herds and domestic animals. The right to bear arms: Fears relating to foreign invasion.
Not the right to automatic weapons to kill innocent people. Not the right to hunt animals in a cowardly and un-fair fashion. Not the right to use as a home defence weapon with excessive power.
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D. L. Hatch
I choose to exercise my 2nd Amendment rights for one very important reason: The elapsed time for a response by police, if I can call 911 quickly enough if I am the victim of a home invasion, is just too great and will surely allow me to be a dead victim. Think about that. How fast can the police respond to your house in a 911 event? The police cannot protect you; the police are in the "mop-up" business. Don't believe me--ask them.
By the way, I do not understand why and how a discussion of our Constitutional rights ends up in this forum. I hope it is because the forefathers who wrote it did so with a full belief that our nation was founded under God. None of our Amendments is archaic. If glorifying weapons and violence does occur, maybe it has been to celebrate our hard-fought freedom wars. First from England, and then the rest, sadly they appear to have been necessary, and "appear" is used so no one needs to argue Korea & Vietnam in this forum. Wars, police actions, if they do protect American citizens within our borders and without, probably necessary. As an American, I sincerely hope that our forms of government will always try their best to protect us; but when they cannot arrive in time to save me or my family, I will take what I deem to be necessary action.
By the way, Ms. Lord, I have a carry concealed permit. If I saw you being mugged in a parking lot before you could retrieve your cell phone and call 911, would you want me to intervene and attempt to save your life? By the way, none of my five owned weapons is used to hunt food. With luck, you may live in a gated community or in a high rise with an armed security person at the front desk with a partner and closed circuit cameras, all for your protection.
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The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti
Great post. Thank you for standing up for our constitutional right to keep and bear arms. Remember that the most important reason for the second amendment is to deter tyranny.
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Wen
Oh Gwendolyn! You have given me hope! You get it!
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Erik Facundo
When it comes to the Parkland stuidents and paid activists, they need to take a good look in the mirror after reading Xtreme Ownership. The media is painting these kids up to be leaders but according to the definitive book on building leadership they like the key ingredient. The shooter was ridiculed, ostracized, made fun of and alienated by the kids at Parkland High School. They exiled him from their childish popularity games and gave up on one of there own when he was in obvious distress. They may have very well triggered the monster. A real leader would have seen the one in distress and reached out to see what was wrong and at least listened. Maybe just many that lost teenager needed someone to listen and maybe that's all that was needed to prevent him from doing something horrible.
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Erik Facundo
When it comes to the Parkland stuidents and paid activists, they need to take a good look in the mirror after reading Xtreme Ownership. The media is painting these kids up to be leaders but according to the definitive book on building leadership they like the key ingredient. The shooter was ridiculed, ostracized, made fun of and alienated by the kids at Parkland High School. They exiled him from their childish popularity games and gave up on one of there own when he was in obvious distress. They may have very well triggered the monster. A real leader would have seen the one in distress and reached out to see what was wrong and at least listened. Maybe just maybe that lost teenager needed someone to listen and maybe that’s all that was needed to prevent him from doing something horrible.
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Hoggdogg
Willie 1 john 18 dear children this is the last hour and as you heard that the antichrist is coming
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John Owens
Amazing how many people are so delusional as to pretend to believe the young people are doing all this on their own initiative.
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Tom B
John...respectfully, it is amazing to me that so many people think young people are not capable of being upset and disturbed about the idea of being gunned down....Peace...Tom
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The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti
There is a big difference between organizing a rally and being upset and disturbed. Soros, Bloomberg and other anti-gun wealthy individuals have funded and organized these protests. The students have a right to feel that their government(s) have let them down when their government(s) prohibited school employees from carrying concealed, loaded hand guns for protection. As if that were not bad enough, the police failed to respond when the unarmed-victim zone attracted a murderer. Perhaps they forgot or were never taught that the Supreme Court has ruled that citizens have no right to police protection. The adults had a responsibility to provide on-the-spot protection but failed. Gun control is the cause of unarmed-victim zones and is in need of reform.
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John Owens
Thank you, Doctor Ceruti.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Yes, of course, John Owens, why would any young people have any interest in speaking out against gun violence on their own initiative and not "really have to be put up to protesting against that by some other people egging them on and inciting them to protest", since it is only these young people in schools who are being used as target practice by nut jobs?!! What is self-motivated or self-interested in that?!! Those who keep saying, as you and your ilk (which means type or kind or sort of people, as sports lovers are an ilk, and so isn't bigoted or disrespectful) do, that the problem isn't too many guns, but not enough guns, remind me of an episode of All In The Family, in which Archie Bunker said that he could stop airplane hijackings immediately and that would be by just passing out pistols to all of the people getting on the plane!! That same "logic" is seen in the belief that there just aren't enough guns present at the sites of these mass shootings and if there were just more people with guns in these situations, these incidents wouldn't happen at all or would be greatly reduced in frequency. This is contradicted by the fact that these mass shooters most usually go to these sites to kill people, knowing that they will be killed as well and wanting that to happen, suicide by cop or anyone else who does it. So, their being killed after the first person they shoot or the tenth or twentieth makes no difference to them. Also, the Old West had every man armed, but that didn't stop people from shooting other people who had guns, too, and may the fastest on the draw and straightest shooter and best man win!! Having guns is one thing, but these people's being willing and able to kill these mass murderers is another and not many security guards or other "pistol packin' mamas or papas" have quite the same level of commitment that these killers have: it being a terrible and remorseful thing to them to take a human life, but not so to the killers. That is another reason why these sick killers wouldn't be worried about people's having guns at these sites. They might prefer no-gun zones, but if there were nothing except gunned zones, they would still go into them looking for victims, in order to see how good they are, just as men in the Old West would call out the best gunfighters in order to try their luck and prove they were better! This whole "we just don't have enough guns in our society" is just a smaller scale version of the nuclear arms race, in which it was said that "we just have to keep stockpiling more nukes in order to stay ahead of the Soviet Union or China or whoever" and there is just no such thing as ever having enough nukes. It is the old analogy of two guys standing in a basement full of gasoline up to their waists and one of them has a full box of matches, while the other one only has three. It just takes one to blow them both up!!! "The answer to a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun" isn't true or reasonable because we can't always or even usually count on a "good" guy's remaining "good", since they often go bad. Police officers who have been corrupted and taken payoffs or even taken a hit on some people themselves demonstrate that fact. If all priests are going to be condemned and be the objects of suspicion because of a very few pedophiles, shouldn't all "good guys with guns" and cops be under suspicion and not be considered a viable solution to these killers, too, because of their bad guys?! All shootings aren't done by crazy people, per se, but many are done by guys who get angry at other people in bar fights or disputes and just take care of the other people, once and for all, or husbands or wives who find their spouses in bed with other people and kill them both or other "good guys" gone bad!! The writers of the 2nd Amendment only had muskets and single shot pistols in mind when they wrote it, but if they had had automatic rifles and our weapons today, they would have left it out of the Constitution!! Finally, if you claim to be any kind of actual follower of Jesus, shouldn't his words on the subject deter you from thinking that just more weapons are the answer to this problem. "He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword" and "Put away your sword. Don't you know that I could summon legions of angels to defend me, but how then would the scriptures be fulfilled?" and the Bible also says "Do not return evil for evil" and "Revenge is mine, sayeth the LORD; I will repay".
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Rev. John D. Partin
John Owens. when you and all other gun rights' fanatics and nuts become (if you aren't already) so stupid that you couldn't figure out for yourselves to shout against someone's shooting at you and trying to kill you and would have to be put up to doing so by someone's telling you to do it, then you could honestly say that there was, at least, one group of people not smart enough to figure out that they should do that on their own without anyone's putting them up to it (your own!!). But even if you and your ilk (I love using that word about you and your kind because it annoys and pisses you off so much!!) weren!t able to figure that out for yourselves, that doesn't mean at all that nobody else, such as these students, couldn't figure that out!! Even animals can figure out to run away from people who are shooting at them and bark or make animal noises at these people without their being put up to doing so by human beings or other animals and these students are definitely smarter than the animals are!! There isn't anyone who isn't smart enough to do that on their own without their being put up to it, except, possibly, you dumb ass conservatives!! You have already proven yourself to be stupid because the only reason that you can come up with for these students' protesting against gun violence on their campus is that "they must have been put up to it by democratic operatives", which even a genetically moronic person or animal knows overlooks the basic human motivation for such protests of self-preservation and self-interest!! This proves that you and your ilk are sub-moronic, since you can't even figure out what morons can figure out about this!!
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Tom B
Hello All...do you really believe that the basic Republican ideals of ultimate capitalism and radical fundamentalism should "Trump" the Democratic ideals of social conscience?...is it really spiritual to have multi-billions of dollars in the hands of the few, while one million children die every day...i feel that if the answers to these two questions are "yes", then God is missing...Peace...Tom
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Secretary3rd
I go back where Hillary Clinton went to high school in Park Ridge Illinois. It was Maine East that had a rifle and pistol range in its basement. Students would bring guns to school and kill off paper targets after school.Other high schools in the general area as well across the nation had them and never heard of students killing off each other. So for these kids to be out marching against guns seem rather out of place because it is not what another child has to kill with it is the child who wants to kill that is a problem. Those who threaten me about guns that I can not have them may want to think more that if their lights go off what will the first thing they think of. I wish I had a gun!
You wrote :"Claudette Colvin was just 15-years-old when she refused to surrender her seat to a white passenger in Montgomery, Alabama – some nine months before Rosa Parks took a similar stand. College students across the United States organized and rode buses to southern states to march in the Civil Rights Movement."
An idiotic comparison. In your example people were marching and demonstrating to GAIN rights. In this case students are marching to LOSE their rights and those of others. First time in history this has occurred.
Oh come on Gary, it's a totally reasonable comparison. Young people have been leading the charge on important issues for decades.
Does the following phrase ring a bell for you?
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are LIFE, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
These kids aren't marching to take rights away from people, they're asking for the right to go to school without fear of getting killed. Is that so much to ask?
What does any of this have to do with gun control Dan? There is certainly a difference between GAINING and LOSING!!!
Stop teaching liberalism, then. Stop teaching atheism. Stop teaching communism. Taking my right to keep and bear is not going to do ANYTHING to help them. They are marching because they are being told to march, anyway.
Their parents probably put them up to it.
Someone did. It isn't as if many that age have ambition or organizational skills.
Really? You don't think seeing friends killed and maimed was enough to spur them to act? That realizing that if the shooters gun hadn't jammed they could have been among the dead or wounded might inspire them. Many of these kids are AP students whose civics teacher told them not to complain if they weren't going to act. And these kids know how to use social media. For once the targets are striking back. Appreciate their vision and pray for more for yourself.
Whoop tee doo, Michael. Everybody knows how to be a keyboard warrior. They're just bitching and marching like you would if you only had a leader. Lemmings!
Liberalism is communism. These kids are probably being used as useful tools by the leftist anti-gun lobbies and other leftist organizations to further their anti-American agenda. Keep in mind that after each mass shooting the hue and cry is to "ban" certain guns, or severely restrict gun rights of the law-abiding citizens. Removing the guns from the law-abiding citizens does nothing to stop the mass shootings. The criminal and mentally unstable elements do not obey laws, irregardless of how strict the laws or onerous the punishment for breaking the laws. They will always find a weapon of some sort to do their evil deeds. For evidence of the ineffectiveness of gun laws one only needs to look to cities across this nation with the strictest gun laws to see they don't work. Common sense dictates that the soft targets, such as schools, need to be hardened to at least the level seen at government buildings and airports. Don't hear the hue and cry for that from the students. Leads me to believe there is no common sense being used in these protests, as usual, because that is not the goal of the anti-gun letists. An unarmed citizenry is their goal.
Sometimes teachers lie to the children in order for them to march, it affects specially the children whose families are for gun owners rights and the children agree with their pareents. They get so disappointed at the lies of some teachers. Teacher are probably being push by the politics.
They are a lot of videos of witnesses that claim that the shooters had military gear and there were more that one shooter at the Florida School, and at Las Vegas shooting and the people that report this in their youtube channels are being shut down.
What I see is terr or ism, maybe there are not open conversation about that because they do not want people to be scare and want to continue business as usual.
It is getting out of hand, look at what happened today in Texas. Children are in school for too long and being teach things that do not help them make a living while they have all their strength of their youth, something has to change.
As usual, you are right. The recently posted articles both here and in the media have demonstrated a total lack of understanding about the facts, the constitution, and about how to make decisions. First, students did not organize this protest - Bloomberg and Soros, together with other wealthy liberals are behind this. Pictures of this "protest" remind me of the pictures of the Nazi youth rallies and those of the young communists in the first half of the 20th century. Billionaires who can afford armed body guards do not seem to care about anyone who wants to be armed to protect themselves and their families.
The idea that students know enough about the constitution to know how to advise lawmakers is absurd. They are not taught the high ideals of the founding of our nation, nor are they exposed to the history that led to our founding documents, which they would discard so easily. They are taught by examples in the news to disrespect and hate people who disagree with them. They are taught to hate and disrespect our President. Liberalism, atheism, and communism are poor substitutes for freedom, spirituality, and logical reasoning.
What they and many other people do not realize is that mass murders occur when people cannot defend themselves. Gun control is to blame for mass murders. Law-abiding citizens see "gun-free zones" but criminals see "unarmed victim zones" and they attack with the knowledge that no one can shoot back. Lawmakers can't solve problems using the same kind of irrational "thinking" that they used when they created them in the first place. No law should be based on emotions and no law should create additional victimless crimes.
We never had school shootings when people were allowed to bring guns and ammunition to school. Everyone who qualifies should get a concealed-carry license of permit. Society is safer when criminals don't know who is armed.
Again, thank you for your support of our Constitutional rights. We need more like you to speak out against this march into the abyss of tyrannical communism. If we lose one right, it won't be long before we lose them all.
Having been born in 1950 and living through the 60s and all, and then teaching high school for 6 years in the 70s, my humble opinion -- raise the voting age to 25; raise the drinking age to 25; raise the age for the purchase of tobacco to 85 (some people never learn despite medical knowledge published); raise the age to buy ANY firearm to 25. Dr. Phil once stated that the frontal lobes of the human brain do not sufficiently mature until the average age of 25. Maybe, just maybe, there is something to learn there. So, if we have a 19-year-old in the US military, surely give that person the right to vote as they risk their lives for us. And let them drink or smoke on base if they really have to--just not off base. For the rest of the people out there, we need to see more maturity, as it is truly lacking. Too bad Congress cannot legislate intelligence; but if they tried, such laws would work as good as our speed limit laws and gun-free zone signs.
You and I are the same age, but we have different perceptions based on different experiences. Regretfully, your dependence on the Word According to Dr. Phil reduced your entire argument to something akin to other holy books - fantasy. Sorry to be so brusk, but until you can quote scientific studies to support your position, you're on the sinking sands, as it were.
https://www.amazon.com/Date-Devil-M-Phillip/dp/1549780050/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=
At least I wasn't born in 1950, but in 1963, and have had different experiences than both of you. I wasn't a school teacher, but my stepfather was one for thirty something years. I'm a twelfth grade drop out with a G.E.D., and five semesters of college under my belt (one per year, for five years, with almost as many majors). I used to skip school and hang out at the public library, where I could read what I wanted to. My grandmother retired from that library, and I had my first library card when I was six. Incidentally, I still only read what I want to read, and on aptitude tests I have scored high nationwide for writing books. I was an Amwaydistributor, and a Vitamin Power distributor, and have been retired since I was twenty six, with a lot of time on my hands, so y'all are in store for a whole lot more. I've since completed seven year long vocational correspondence courses with highest honors, which I may sometimes quote from, but have a book case next to my favorite chair that contains all of my course text books, so I can find the sources for my quotes. I'm just too lazy to do that, until I'm challenged. Now I feel the need for a cup of coffee coming on,and I go to great lengths to avoid caffeine withdrawal headaches, so I must run now. I'll check back later to see how y'all like my autobiography in progress.
(Luke 22:51). Then He told Peter to put his sword away, for “all who draw the sword will die by the sword”, but since we don't use swords any more but guns, the same applies. This is for all the Christian Radicals, they missed something Jesus said!
getting medical information from Dr Phil, that's like getting relationship advise from the Kardashians.. good luck with that.
Dr. Ruth Westheimer was another good one for relationship advice, not that I ever called her. I've never written to Dear Abby iether, but have read some good remedies on her column, right next to the daily horoscope, which isn't what it's cracked up to be. It might be better to draw straws or learn to read tea leaves, and take only the right amounts of vitamins B6,B12, and folic acid for mental clarity. At least a diploma on my wall says I'm a Natural Health Consultant.
And while you're at it sir, raise the minimum age for posting comments on this blog to 150, if we should always share only as super intelligent and mature gurus, without strong enough feelings regarding some articles and posts to make us go ape-shit crazy, and get back with a bumpy landing. When was maturity ever not lacking, even at times, God forbid, in our own, majestic selves. May we not seek to remove the thorn from our brother's eye before we remove the board from our own. And I don't have to quote sources. That is so childish to suggest, for it is always and only the message, not the messenger that counts.
Had I known that quoting Dr. Phil (and whoever his medical source was for 25-year-old frontal lobes of brains reaching an average level of maturity) would have raised such ire, I would have researched who Dr. Phil used for that information. I do not personally know the good doctor, but I will defend him on that count. I taught high school kids for 6 years and maybe 10% of them were more mature than many adults. I rarely met a 17-year-old boy who already did not know everything and proceeded to tell me that. But, that is why the process of earning a high school diploma is so valuable to the participants. I observed that 90% of the students were wasting their time in the average classroom. What most of the 90% needed was a job, while the other 10% needed to attend college and see what they could make of their lives at that end. Not that high school drop-outs cannot succeed, as some can and do. I wish all of the respondents well; if it takes some good whiskey to help you think then go for it; if you can pray, accept the plan God has for you and learn to think before you speak or write, then that is also a worthy personality trait. To the critics: Hope you have a better solution for anything, and that you can voice it or write it accurately and get it to the people who can consider its merit and possible implementation. This forum sure seems to bring out the fringe elements of society. BUT, I'd rather see them here than on that poor excuse for social media named Facebook. I can't wait to see what comes along to replace it, just as it replaced MySpace.
These kids are protesting the wrong things. Guns are not the problem. They are protesting Trump and Congress. They should be protesting there local law enforcement and FBI and the chicKen office that was there and could have ended this in first two minutes. What we know now he should have been locked up years ago.
School shooting.. again. But this time the officer on the campus responded immediately and stopped the shooting, potentially saving many more lives. The shooter hit two students before he was engaged by the school officer. Crisis averted? Or is it another senseless act of gun violence? Read the article and determine for yourselves. Thank you.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/20/us/great-mills-high-school-shooting/index.html
The spirit of Satan is in league with the liberals and is going after our children... Then our constitution and our rights ... These are not Random shootings to Satan they all fall in line for the plan revealed in the book of Revelation chapter 13
"Fairytales, can come true, they can happen to you, if you're young at heart."
You better hope those cops you're protesting to are in a good mood, or you'll find yourself in jail, and rightfully so. It's best to only address those wonderful people as sir or mam respectively (and respectfully), and limit your conversations with them to please, thankyou, and your welcome, other than directly answering their questions. You are mistaken in thinking it is their job to hear protests. The same goes for FBI agents. And don't forget they were overstressed before they encountered you, if they might seem to lose their cool over your inappropriate protesting. I never was a cop, but was a commissioned security officer for seven years, in such places as Motel 6, Days Inn, numerous ships in port, and the Galveston beach, so I too have heard plenty of protesting, which had nothing to do with my job description, and there was absolutely nothing I could do, except get angry and get a headache.
Don't get me wrong. Complaining about a crime being committed and protesting are totally different things. It is the job of police officers to stop crimes and put criminals in jail. Your protesting should be done at city hall or the capital, and other such places.
These are the same kids responsible for an average death rate of 14 per day nationwide from texting and driving. They also are the ones biting Tide Pods as a challenge. I find nearly every thing high school age kids do is irrelevant. We don't need to ban guns. We need parents to start raising their kid properly and bring back good moral lifestyles. Please don't get me wrong. I am not a radical thinker. I have no problems with same sex marriage or the LGBT community. I'm talking violence and corrupt business practices , ect. Which are all to common these days.
Have you thought about becoming a scout master with Boy Scouts of America. If I was eligible that's what I would do. Don't get me wrong. Talking about solutions to problems is a good thing, but at some point in time we must take action. No amount of laws are going to change the minds of our youth. Good morals must be instilled within them, by the morally astute.
Furthermore, I would like to suggest that all eligible ULC ministers become scoutmasters, or at least little league coaches, and help instill good morals in America's youth.
Not all parents have good morals or know how to raise their children right. They might at least let them join the Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts,little league, or something similar. And if you can't directly support the kids in such ways you can show support by buying Girl Scout or Boy Scout Cookies when they come knocking at your door. I know I will.
Mark, if you are in Galveston between June eighth and tenth we can go to the Gay Pride festivities together, and really show our support. And before then we can buy Gay Pride apparel from Amazon.com to wear at the events. I know I'm going to, and have a really fabulous time!
Dan: These kids are defying authority by 'skipping school'. Woosie, soft-brained school administrators are allowing this rebellion to happen. There are other suitable ways to seek change.
Dan...i agree...and there should not be guns/violence in movies, video games or television, either...but that is a problem, since there is so much money made from violence...Peace...Tom
The use of the word "idiotic", when used to describe someone who holds a different opinion than you hold, removes any serious consideration of anything else you say in the message.
our governments have many laws regarding punishment for using guns. Serious rules that the court ignores and there are very few times the court enforces and gives the prison terms mandated. Has anyone ever seen any jail or prison time meted out?
Sorry sir, but I haven't been paying attention to prisons or prisoners.
What rights are they marching to lose?? The right to feel safe at school?!
I think they're marching to get that right, not lose it, sir. They should talk to their psychiatrists. A prescription for milaril might make them feel more secure.
Safety isn't a right. The ability to defend your safety by the means of your choosing is
Murderers might also think they are defending their safety. Please be more explicit, sir.