You've heard of the "War on Christmas," but this year the battle has apparently opened up a second front. That's right: the "War on Thanksgiving" has begun.
The War on Thanksgiving unofficially began earlier this November, when Huffington Post published an article titled 'The Environmental Impact Of Your Thanksgiving Dinner'. While the article explicitly states that "no one should be discouraged from enjoying the holiday or celebrating with family and friends", it does imply that Thanksgiving is a giant recipe for carbon pollution. To help offset the impact of the holiday festivities, the author provides a number of eco-friendly alternatives to reduce your carbon footprint.
Notably, the article suggests swapping out the conventional turkey (which creates 34.2 pounds of CO2) with plant-based alternatives, like brussel sprouts or mushrooms. The author quotes eco-experts who suggest sourcing ingredients locally and considering the impact of your holiday travel on the environment.
While this does arguably put a damper on the Thanksgiving holiday, there is one silver lining: pumpkins have a relatively small carbon footprint, so we can all safely have a second piece of pumpkin pie.
Defenders, Man Your Stations
To the surprise of absolutely nobody, the suggestion of forgoing normal Thanksgiving delights did not sit well with ardent holiday loyalists; it wasn't long before outlets like Fox News picked up the story and ran with it.
"Cancel culture has turned on the holiday," began Fox News host Todd Piro in one segment, backed by a massive "WAR ON THANKSGIVING" graphic. "The Huffington Post is seriously suggesting Americans skip spending time with family, instead foregoing travel to save our planet" finished his co-host.
"All joking aside," Piro continued, "I got viscerally angry because this is the latest attempt to tear down an American tradition that was fine and didn't need any help."
Piro wasn't the only Fox News personality upset about the Huffington Post piece. Popular personality Tucker Carlson took issue with the article as well, insisting that "the left isn't just demanding you give up steak dinners and plastic straws. Now [they're] demanding you cancel Thanksgiving dinner, too."
And host Jesse Watters seemed to take the article as a personal challenge. "They want to fight a War on Thanksgiving? They lost the War on Christmas. They want to fight again? I helped win the War on Christmas. Come at me guys!"
Twitter users were quick to mock the Fox News hosts for expressing outrage - especially given their penchant for calling out so-called "snowflakes" who take offense at perceived minor grievances.
But is it possible these Thanksgiving defenders have a point? Does embracing progressive sensibilities risk undermining the traditions of our favorite holidays?
Exorcising Past Demons
Last Sunday, church leadership and the congregation of Plymouth Congregational Church in Minneapolis, Minnesota voted to remove a Thanksgiving embroidery entitled "Churchmen in the New World." The embroidery depicts Pilgrims and Native Americans at the first Thanksgiving table, along with slaves and a slave ship. These images, according to those who voted to remove the embroidery, are part of a harmful origin myth for Thanksgiving that romanticizes early settlers while glossing over later decimation of Native American tribes:
But even at this progressive church, members were divided over how to handle the display. The embroidery, which has hung in the church since 1974, was created by a beloved group of local churchwomen called the Needlers.
Some people were in favor of the vote, believing it was correct to remove any imagery that might be considered offensive. But long-time congregants like Bob Carr see it differently. He told the Star Tribune that removing the embroidery entirely is "throwing history and art under the bus." Another member, Dobby West, said that "to view [the embroideries] only in terms of their unintended message is wounding and turns the Needlers' sacrifice into something to be ashamed of."
Let's Talk Turkey
It does seem a bit ironic that these high-profile disagreements always flare up around the holidays, a time when we are all supposed to be coming together. And studies show these battles aren't confined to the media space they often spill over into our regular lives. In fact, nearly half of Americans report skipping family gatherings to avoid spending time with relatives they disagree with.
That said, the "Thanksgiving War" seems like a clear case of overreaction by both sides.
Does the original Huffington Post article demand that you stay at home, alone in your apartment, and eat cold brussel sprouts this Thanksgiving, as some news personalities tried to frame it? Of course not. It merely asks you to consider the environmental impact your actions have before you dig into Thanksgiving dinner.
And is an embroidery made in good faith 45 years ago really deserving of being thrown in the trash? That seems pretty harsh. America is reckoning with its not-always-squeaky-clean past, and the process isn't always pretty.
Thanksgiving was made a national holiday by Abraham Lincoln in the midst of the Civil War, at a time when a nation rabidly divided desperately needed a force for unity. Sound familiar?
Perhaps we can all take a cue from the church congregants at Plymouth Congregational. Though opinions were split on the embroidery, they refuse to be torn apart by the issue. Said acting senior minister Paula Northwood: "At the very least, we are going to find a way to agree to disagree and still love each other."
What do you think? Is that a good philosophy for the Thanksgiving table?
124 comments
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John P Maher
LET RELIGION BE RELIGION and HOLIDAYS BE HOLIDAYS, PAY MUCH MORE, VERY MUCH MORE TO POLITICIANS and Y O U R GOVERNMENT, OUR GOV.
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John P Maher
TO ALL of YOU HAPPINESS and TO ALL WHO SIT DAILY on THIS BLOG DAY in and DAY OUT, G E T A LIFE, PLEASE !
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Teresa Louise Barberot
Say a prayer in thanks of our meal and blessings. I plan to enjoy a traditional smoked turkey with all of the trimmings. Video chat will provide a visit with friends and relatives that we can’t be with due to Covid restrictions. For those who want to change their menu let them enjoy their meal and I will enjoy every bite of mine! Happy Thanksgiving! May God bless everyone.
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Lionheart
Thank you Teresa. Hope you had a wonderful Thanksgiving.
Did you have a particular god in mind that you blessed us with. Just asking!
🦁❤️
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Richard Lee Cornell
I'm at a office complex last Sunday leaving the place there was a party going on. Dozens of unmasked people. I expect to see the same thing Thursday as families in large groups have dinner in this place. This is one place that police do not show up. There is a restaurant in the building that is open during the day for the office workers. It turns out to be open at night for "night workers". The local sit down restaurant stays in business by serving in the office complex. .
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David Steventon
I am splitting my sides laughing after noting that the Huffington Post got the huff about how Thanksgiving dinner might be environmentally hazardous. What next, put diapers on all the cows in the field? As a Christian I am more concerned that in the US in particular more effort appears to be put into celebrating Thanksgiving, compared to Christmas. Furthermore it saddens me that we put more effort to convince kids to believe in the mythical figure of Santa, rather than promoting Christ’s birthday.
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Alan S Corr
I think thanksgiving is a Christian holiday. Giving or being thankful for your harvest, your family , friends , good health, being thankful the end of 2020 is near I’m especially thankful for that . Giving thanks to God for our lives , our health , the health of our loved ones .
I’m thankful for every day I wake up , for every moment I spend with my Grand Daughters, for every moment with family and friends, I’m thankful for my good health .
Heavenly Father I ask that you heal the sick , heal the broken hearted , comfort the grieving , bless every man woman and child on this earth with piece, health, food to eat , water to drink , shelter, a warm bed to sleep in . Amen
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I.S. Johnson
In case everyone has not noticed yet, there are individuals who will complain about everything. Do everything they ask, change everything they want changed and they will still not be satisfied . They will continue to complain because complaining is what they like most. Its a game, lets see what I can make others do.
If you do not believe in climate change, hide and watch. If you think a few turkey dinners suppressed will stop it, hide and watch.
Is the history behind Thanksgiving skewed, slanted or murky? YES! Has this nation treated our native American brothers shamefully? YES! Do we continue to do it? YES! We can do much to right this wrong in the form of legislation reform, honoring treaties we have broken and countless other things that would make a real difference to Indian cultures, no tar sands oil being piped across our country perhaps. Knocking out a holiday further undermining our culture does not seem the best way.
Perhaps we should ask why so many families have such a hard time getting along for a single day? What is wrong in our society that we are all so isolated from each other? Oh yeah, selfishness promotion by 24 hour advertising, competition of each individual against every other individual instead of a unified purpose. The endless tightening of access to all the necessities of life by the wealthy elite. Then there is the digital isolation of the "Smart phone" which promotes total reliance on its service instead of your own brain. I could go on. Holidays are not the problem here.
I am having a traditional New England Thanksgiving with all the gravy and spuds, stuffing and pie because that is how I was raised and that is what I enjoy. I will be cooking together with my 78 year old mother who I do not know how many more she may be here for. If anyone has a problem with that, then YOU have a problem. Please do not try to make it mine. If you want a tofu turkey, more power to you but do not try to FORCE me to your way of thinking. I do not do that to others.
Peace
I.S. Johnson
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Catherine
I asked an Indian friend why they have Thanksgiving. Imagine my ignorant surprise when she said, "it was ours first!" :.) Then I learned about "Turkey Day" and "Give Away" days. And other cool history. So many important facts omitted from our education.
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Pastor George Day
I.S. Johnson,
Think about that poor turkey!!
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A druid
People...lighten up! Eat turkey, stuffing, and mashed potatoes. Smother them in gravy. Drink too much and watch football. Go ahead and argue with your uncle. It's o.k. this is the holiday for fun with your family. We'll all be better for it tomorrow. A little fatter, a lot happier. This is one day a year.
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DrF350
Just read the original HP article; it's tepid, harmless. Fox is manufacturing this fake "war" to dupe gullible conservatives into being mad about nothing and blaming it on liberals.
Maybe it's a power fantasy for them; start an imaginary war, paint a political opponent as the enemy, and then (since it's all fake) pretend like you "won" and claim victory. I mean there's even a quote from a Fox anchor claiming that he "helped win the war on Christmas" like he's some kind of hero for protecting things that nobody wanted to take away in the first place.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I glad I never look at Fox News, but prefer CNN, and QLixar News. Even the Galveston Daily News isn't that bad.
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Jeffrey Lukasiewicz
Break bread with someone was seen always as peace. offering between differing sides, we should be able to come to the table at least for the day.
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Daniel
I think the only "war" is generated against the people by the mass marketing machinery that detracts from the values of quality family time and intended community well-being, with the Hope that more and more people sell out to short-sided capitalistic consumerism. On a lighter note, since the Christ wasn't born on Christmas and the "Thanksgiving" P.R. propaganda is not what happened historically, maybe they should just switch dates. Then people might be more thankful for what they got, and have, instead of supposedly being thankful before rushing off on "black friday" to try and get more sh*t.
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Donald W Schmidt
As I assumed ULC was an unbiased organization accepting of all views, I find it disheartening that themonastery.org, in it's marketing email for this article, has put the phrase "Save the Turkeys" directly above photos of people who promote science and are concerned for the environment.
That visual sends the micro-message that all people who are concerned about the environment and scientific facts are "turkeys" in the derogatory sense as defined below:
...a person or thing of little appeal; dud; loser. ...a naive, stupid, or inept person. ...a poor and unsuccessful theatrical production; flop.
From an editorial standpoint, your images should require as much thought and review before publishing as your other editorial materials do to avoid the appearance bias by taking the side of Christianity over science (the other people in the image); unless, of course, you intended to smear and alienate certain segments of our society.
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Pastor George Day
Donald W Schmidt,
Why didn't you raise this with them directly instead of stirring a contention here? You can approach the moderators via chat.
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Jim Murray
I agree with most of the comments of Gerald and many of the other commenters regarding the “War on Thanksgiving.” I think it is Fox News attempt to “create” debate, controversy, and “news” for their viewers and thereby create ratings. Just another aspect of the commercialization of the holidays. For myself growing up it was mostly a time of family members gathering and spending time together which I enjoyed growing up. Like most of you, at school there were the traditional misrepresentation of the colonization of North America and the “discovery” of Native American peoples, cutting of paper turkeys and making of pine cone turkeys. I like others who have written like the less commercial aspects of the holiday. Yes “Black Friday” sales have moved into Thanksgiving Thursday. But if you decide to stay at home and have a postprandial nap, a family game of backyard sports, cards, board games, going for a walk, or if you lived in Florida (like I did,) a walk on the beach or a game of tag in the pool. Like most you it was only as I moved on to high school and college or work and the war in Vietnam Nam that I learned about the problems of “his”tory, the hidden “her’story, the one sided white, Euro-centric view of most everything. I started getting a peek into the world of people of different colors, different cultures, and different perspectives. I also started to learn that these people not only lived “over there”, but also at my school, workplace, and in some cases even in my neighborhood.
As someone who was born in 1950, I have been blessed to have been given the time to awaken to many changes in understanding the world in which I live. Like most of you I have worked to become one with and change my understanding of the world. So I say find ways to reduce your Thanksgiving carbon footprint by going solar or wind power, find additional ways to capture carbon in the earth and release oxygen, give up meat for November and enjoy your turkey, or do other things to help save the planet and give thanks everyday for family, friends, and love ones with which to share the earth. It is my favorite holiday because it is so easy to find things to be thankful for when the people and dogs at the table I am sitting at ask that in editable question.
I hope you all have a wonderful day, however you spend it and that all of the people of the world will have the same.
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Pastor George Day
Jim Murray
1950!! You really must have seen a lot of changes around!
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Lynn May
Well. Interesting article and responses. Thanksgiving has always been special to me. However, as I have gotten older (just turned 69 a couple of weeks ago) and family have died and friends have moved to other parts of the country, this holiday has dwindled down to just my husband and myself. We have a farm, and the past two years, the turkeys I have raised from day old little ones to about four or five months old, have been our dinner for this holiday and others during the coming year. The heritage turkeys I didn't use for food but raised into adulthood managed to find their way to the wild turkey flocks we have in our national forest within which our farm is located and we live, thereby increasing the "natural" flocks that had once, a few years ago, just about disappeared. Every so often, I can hear them make turkey noises. At any rate, this year it will just be the two of us, and we are fine with that. Not sure what I will be fixing. We are thankful we moved from southeast New Mexico just over five years ago to far southwest Missouri in the Ozark Mountains. We are thankful for our chickens and ducks and horse and mule and donkeys. For our apple orchard. For our one old dog who is 12, and our farm cats who give us comfort and keep the vermin and rodents away. We have learned that we don't need much to be happy. Malls are no longer part of our life. Neither is cable television. Yes, we have Internet and stream in Netflix and AmazonPrime. We do have cell phones and text a few people and keep in touch via email. I still send cards and write letters. We have our desk computers, and I have my iPad. Other than that, we have our hobbies and ways to make a little extra money. Try to be as self-sufficient as we can. But, as retired persons, we have learned to do without a lot of stuff we don't otherwise need. It is a good life. It works for us but not everybody. Happy Thanksgiving to all and celebrate it whatever way works for you.
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Allen
Thank you, and the same to you.
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Robert A Stiff
Ah, Lynn May.....just the tone of your letter is relaxing and filled with warmth and a sense of acceptance. Bless you and yours and may you have many, many more days of quiet bliss.
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Pastor George Day
Robert A Stiff,
… and more turkeys' lives spared!!
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Robert A Stiff
Ah, Lynn May.....just the tone of your letter is relaxing and filled with warmth and a sense of acceptance. Bless you and yours and may you have many, many more days of quiet bliss.
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Pastor George Day
Lynn May,
Poor turkeys! I'm sure they won't look forward to Thanksgiving like you do!
Think about the New World... We will ALL be vegan?
Have you ever considered letting them ALL live?
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Bruce
As a Minneapolis resident, I sometimes feel that I am live at ground zero in political correctness. But these are important conversations, as painful as they can be. As I read about the Thanksgiving tapestry in the local paper, I remember being relieved that this issue wasn't at my church. There will be no winner in stomping on the artwork donated by the senior women of Plymouth Congregational, but they needed to have that discussion. Will this and changing the name of a city lake from a racist Congressman to a Dakota tribal name address all the wrongs to members of America's first nations? Hardly, but it is a step towards appreciating a different perspective. A friend from Atlanta cannot understand my disgust at a chant at their baseball game (not to mention the name of an NFL team; why is that still a thing?). Once you appreciate how hurtful misplaced names and celebrations can be, you will find yourself walking a different path.
Where does it end? Right now Macalester College in St. Paul is removing the name of its founder from a building because of his strident racism. Edward Neill founded two Presbyterian Churches and was the first chancellor of the University of Minnesota, eventually becoming Lincoln's private secretary, among other things. It seems that the good men do is oft interred with their bones (excuse the gender bias) since we cannot permit ourselves to celebrate people or events with a dark side. But isn't it better to understand that dark side? Precious little time to do that when people treat discourse as an excuse to ramp up the volume.
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Gerald Duggins
Thanksgiving is about family and friends and above all being thankful for what we have. We have the freedom to worship as we please and to share love with family and friends. Why is it there always has to be a small group of indoctrinated people that want to upset the apple cart, destroy our history and our way of life? We see the hate from these small groups of people that have been taught to hate not love, they have been taught that God is false and a fantasy. I feel very sad for these people because they won't accept the truth and will only feel hate forever.
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Jollyn
Do you make this stuff up? And who cares what Fox News does? Why not focus on importantproblems, not this nonsense?
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Charles Jenkins
Absolutely RIDICULOUS! There is NO WAR on Christmas, Thanksgiving or Easter. I don't know why or who started this stupid lie. If you celebrate these holidays no one cares! This form of deception is believed by those who can't think for themselves.
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Sarah
The story of the natives and pilgrims is a lie. This is why I stand against this day. Not about being with family and etc that should be done more than once or twice a year. I have never done the pilgrim feast. Do your research. What was told in school about thanksgiving is a lie.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
If it was a lie, at least it was a good lie that started a wonderful holiday and celebration.
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Pastor George Day
Sarah,
How do you know? This is recent history, easily proved.
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Zoons
The European colonization of the Americas is the worst thing that could happen to native earth keepers and this land, nothing for us to celebrate. However we can all join in a harvest celebration of sharing earth' s bounty.
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James LaMountain
Hi I am Jim and I am one of your ministers. I have many Native Friends and suggest you read the Mourning Road to Thanksgiving by Larry Spotted Crow Mann.
The first official proclimation of thanksgiving was by Gov Winthrop celebrating the Pequot massacre of 1637 where musketmen from Plymouth surrounded a sleeping village of 700 elders , women, and children. The men were all out on a hunting party. The pilgrims then set the village ablaze and anyone running out were shot by musketmen or run through by rapiers.. Please research the history and Larry Spotted Crow is a great place to start.
https://www.facebook.com/1094655395/posts/10214977951177633?d=n&sfns=mo
After studying local History I have learned that we need to learn as much historical info as we can before the universe will allow us to unindoctorate and de- enculturation.
Remember.. It’s all about the Love Rev James P LaMountain Nipmuck Territory 2019
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Catherine
Indepth research to add to yours, pertinent to how Thanksgiving was established. A massacre that ended a few years of incessant murdering to land grab, is unworthy of any kind of celebration in my opinion. Yet so many of us cling to lies taught in elementary school.
Titled: "The First Thanksgiving in America" and "Searching For Thanksgiving", by Harry Hubbard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qSgzTBrO2Y
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Pastor George Day
Catherine,
Very informative.
Thank you, and happy new year! :-)
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Thomas William Cornfield
What is a Thanksgiving? . In reality it is a time to come together with Family and friends. There seems to be a misconception about this, maybe more foreign influences on our culture. Unlike Christmas, Easter (where things are expected to be given) Thanksgiving is meant to be a time of forgiveness, and welcoming all in the family together and give thanks that the Lord God Almighty (creator and destroyer of all things in the universe) Has Help us through another year. It is also a time to ignore the petty differences with each other. Remember Honor thy mother and thy Father or to the ones house you will have this great holliday together Minister Thomas
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Oh Mo
What war? Jaysus f'ing Cristo - ULC is starting to sound like a Republican rubber stamp. Stirrin' up shit just to stir up shit. ????????????????????
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Pastor George Day
Oh Mo,
What's the need or purpose for being rude?
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Rev. CH
Media loves controversy because it gets readers' attention. Just because Fox or The Huffington Post says something is an issue doesn't mean it really is. After all, think about it. How many people do you know personally who have attempted to stop you from celebrating your holidays? Chances are, there are none. At 55 years old, the only individual I've ever had to put a damper on my holiday was a former boss who was a jerk. There is no "war" on any holiday other than the few individuals who might take issue with a certain religion being given preferential treatment over others by a government. Then, it's not really a war. It's more of a reinforcement of the Establishment Clause. Celebrate it if you want. Don't if you don't, but for goodness sake, don't give in to divisive rhetoric spewed out by media seeking only to inflame listeners' tempers and get more views. It's pathetic, in my opinion, that media has stooped so low on this issue. If you're so inclined, take a trip to Jamestown's archaeological site and learn about what happened in at least one settlement's winter, and you'll find the Thanksgiving myth is something of a misnomer. If you prefer to not know and simply carry forth a tradition of what you want the world to be, then do that.
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Allen
I thank my God that we still have the freedom of choice. If you use Thanksgiving for the good of your family, a get together, a nice meal a sharing with your kids that you don't see near often enough, then I think it's a wonderful thing. If you want to work, go fishing,Go hunting or do nothing that is also your right. Please don't pick on us that find Thanksgiving a comfortable time to be around family, and to take this opportunity to be thankful for what we have and pray for those that don't have. There are some of us that got married, raised a family of decent God fearing children and live a fairly normal life. Please don't attempt to take away something you have no right to do.
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Lionheart
I thank my logic and reason for enabling me to make the right choices of total freedom of thought.
I am grateful that I raised a decent family that were not indoctrinated to fear any of the worlds mythical gods, even the Christian mythical god. They now live free from any religious bondage, and live a normal life of liberty and complete freedom of thought.
?❤️
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart,
I'm just curious as to what kind of spirituality your children follow if you don't mind sharing.
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Lionheart
They don’t follow any kind of whatever you want to call “spirituality”. They don’t have a need.
Thank you for your question.
🦁❤️
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart,
That, in my opinion, isn't good. We are spiritual incarnate beings.
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Lionheart
Thank you for your opinion of what you like to believe is true, and what you like to think is not good.
🦁❤️
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Jimmy Helms
I agree 100 percent and I give you the praise for standing up for what you believe. The truth. Thanks happy Thanksgiving God bless you
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Pastor George Day
Allen,
How about letting the animals live and find other entertainment to spend time with your kids?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Go shoot a turkey, and get motivated! Avoid bah humbugs, and set up your tree the next day! Come on people, there's a lot of work to do. And above and through it all, try to give a nice day!
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Pastor George Day
Carl Bernard Elfstrom,
Are you advocating gun shooting??
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'm so interfaith I just blend in all the holidays together, and celebrate the whole holiday season from Thanksgiving through Mardi gras. Happy holidays ! However, y'all probably won't hear from me in December. The forty bucks I'd spend on internet access will help pay for Christmas presents. And I better get a book of Christmas stamps to go with that box of assorted cards. Merry Christmas, Happy Yule, or whatever floats your boat in the holiday season, which, as the song goes, is the "Most wonderful time of the year!"
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Wayne Stevens
Well I hate saying this but in my opinion Thanksgiving isn't necessarily a religious holiday however I think it can be whatever you wish it to be basically in my opinion is a general give thanks to what you already have whatever that is and go from there what I am saying is that it is a religious holiday necessarily it is basically when the American natives helped the Europeans starving and in general they gave thanks for that and today was just generally give thanks for what we do have for example give things to good health be thankful for the fact that we just got up today and walking around
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guidvce4
In my opinion, Thanksgiving is a great holiday for getting together with friends &/or family and catching up with everybody. We seldom spend it with family as we live some distance from the nearest relatives. Sometimes with neighbors, gracious folks that they are inviting seasoned citizens to their table, or on our own. Always enjoyable, either way. If my spouse and I spend it alone, we tend to wander back through our life together and laff a lot at the things we thought was so important way back when. We always thank each other for what we have. It was a joint effort to get here and we know each of us had a part in it. Still do. Thankful for that. Just sayin'.
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Rev.Jimmy
It is a time to be thankful for what you have and have accomplished in life. Look back to wear you were to wear you are now just be thankful and enjoy family and friends this season. Bless all .
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John P Maher
YOU SAID A MOUTHFULL REV. JIMMY !
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Pastor George Day
Wayne Stevens,
Saying that Thanksgiving isn't a Christian/religious holiday is like making the same statement about ULC.
You have to put things in perspective.
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Maiane santo santos
This is war!!!!!! Don’t shoot til you see the white meat.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
And try not to hit the wishbone !!!
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Rev Mary
This is a very disturbing comment on many levels.
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Michael J McCormick
ROTFLMAO
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Stephanie Willey
A war on Thanksgiving, a war on Christmas .... what a complete load of road apples. But what an effective media tool to occupy the simple minds of the American public, redirecting their attention away from the real evil that is happening right in front of US all.
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Lionheart
Which evil is that? Do you mean all the gun violence of late? Just asking!
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Carrie
Give me a freakin' break! The war on Thanksgiving is a bunch of twaddle! I do think it is stupid to cut into family time for the concept of capitalism. The war on anything is only to promote capitalism and the great god MONEY. The idiotic evangelicals declare war, and slit themselves to prove they are the "protectors" of christmas, whatever the hell that is! You see the "war" is really between the gods of "profit" and the gods of "society". Take your pick and make a stand. You are either on the side of the billionaire oligarchs, or on the side of those who want to spend quality time with family and friends. I personally think society should win. The stupid christians seem to have invited this monkey to sit on their backs and screw their skulls! Have fun!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
This is the first time I've heard of a war on Thanksgiving . But we do need our guns to shoot turkeys . It sure beats trying to catch one, and strangle it !
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Pastor George Day
Carl Bernard Elfstrom,
When they do the same to you, you won't have as much fun!
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Mark Hannon
I'm surprised that FOX News hasn't taken up the "War on Sunday". Businesses used to be closed on Sunday so the employees could go to church. And the demon, liquor, was not sold on Sunday like it is now. Children actually are scheduled to practice SCHOOL sports on Sunday keeping the family from church or even home made dinners.
And LED lighting is causing electric customers to use less electricity!!!! Do you know what that does for the dividends paid to shareholders in utility companies? Old, white people like safety in owning these stocks. LED's are attacking the financial security of these people!
Thanksgiving is a God-given, red blooded, AMERICAN celebration! Christmas and Easter are brought over from SOCIALIST EUROPEAN countries.
Oh, I'm sorry. I channeled my fundamentalist older brother there.
I hope that FOX will one day remember people can eat whatever the heck they want to eat on any day they want to eat it. Maybe they'll find some actual NEWS to report.
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Rod Gesner
As one with Native Blood that fought the Battle against the Lies of the Invaders; starting in the 60's at jr high... I find the current battle somewhat laughable ;) However if some one wants to make an environmental and Cultural Statement... Kill as Many Wild Turkeys as you can find.... They are Predatory creatures that eat the eggs and young of other species; as well as Stripping the forest Floor of edibles.. Deer are a serious problem as well overpopulation leads to Breaking the Cycles of young tree replacement and Loss of other Forest Foods; to say nothing of the Road hazards and deadly accidents they cause.. Then Go to all the farms in your area and STEAL as Much food as You Can; as that's what the Pilgrims Did to The Natives. Then for the Cultural Payback: Find The Nearest Badlands Rez and Take the Food and Donate Without any Expectation of Thanks.. As it is Their Country and Therefore Their FOOD Anyway...and While the Pilgrims May have Thanked their "god"; I Doubt if they thanked the Natives They RAPED, PLUNDERED, PILLAGED and MURDERED!
My Favorite Thanksgiving was When I had enough Roadkill Deer to Share with some Native friends. 2 days before a Turkey Flock visited my compost pile; Grabbed my Shotgun and Having No Turkey Loads; Gutted; him in Flight with a Deer Slug.. Then had Dumpster Veggies, Deer and Turkey With my Friends; and Took the Leftovers to the Local Community Kitchen to Share with those Poorer Than Me; (IN SPITE OF REGULATIONS AGAINST BRINGING FOOD IN TO SHARE) ;)
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patrick
I love your comment, although I don't agree with stealing from farmers when you can steal from Wal-Mart instead. Anyway it's nice to see an original thought on here for once; thank you, Rod.
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Rod Gesner
I thought of just limiting it to Corp Farms; but the Issue is all Farmers except Native ones are trespassers and therefore should SHARE with the natives.. Besides Why Insult the Natives w Walmart Foods? This Whole Thing Was Written Tongue in Cheek; as Humor is The Best Defense against Criminal Liabilities; as well as being my Best alternative to RAGE
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Pastor George Day
Rod Gesner,
Silly question, but how do you relate to the Mormon theory that you are Lamanites, descendants of the Tribe of Manasseh?
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Layne Harris
Ehhh, I get a free turkey every year anyway. For my family it's get drunk and feast on turkey, corn pudding and succatash day......and be thankful we aren't dead yet, small pox blankets and all.
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Pastor George Day
Rod Gesner,
Do you belong to an indigenous nation?
I ask because I'd like to know more. I'm a Sealander myself, a citizen of the smallest country in the world we know about. But I'd like to know more about the Indian nations.
You can email me through my ministry contact https://theologyofthebody.webador.co.uk/contact-us
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Wayne Stevens
Do we still have Thanksgiving by the looks of things I think Thanksgiving is been parked out by Christmas even hearing anything about it anyway it's good to know we still have Thanksgiving someplace somehow
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Beth K
Many people, especially those working in retail, no longer have a Thanksgiving anyway. Thanksgiving dinner, even if held in their home, is being edged out by the need to "come in by 3 pm Thanksgiving" for the "Black Friday Earlybird Events", along with customers who stampede into popular retailers for these very early sales. The low-income retail employees cannot refuse to come in, foregoing their Thanksgiving, or they'll lose their jobs.
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Lionheart
I find it interesting that Thanksgiving in the United States is bigger, from a holiday perspective, than Christmas, and Easter. Is it a sign of the times that the Christian religion is fading?
?❤️
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I guess I could buy a turkey T.V. dinner, and think about the pilgrims and Indians while eating it. Until Grandma passed away we always had Thanksgiving dinner at her house. In recent years I've been going out with my brother for Thanksgiving dinner, but he's been busy with a new job, and haven't been able to get him on the phone lately. I know of a couple of bars that always have Thanksgiving dinner, and I do have the ingredients needed to make a couple of pumpkin pies, but as of yet I'm not feeli g very motivated. Then again, if I'd get off my lazy ass, there's still enough time to buy some turkey Spam, Stovetop stuffing, and a can of sweet potatoes. And I love in a small apartment building full of poor retirees, so it wouldnt be hard to find someone to break bread with. I've even got a made in China American flag I can fly, and some fireworks, that aren't legal to fire in this county, but I do have some. It sounds like I might have a good Thanksgiving, after all.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Ignore nay sayers, and go for the gusto ! Happy Thanksgjving !
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I can't believe what I did today. I must have been possessed by the spirit of the holidays. I was only planning to buy a few turkey T.V. dinners at Kroger today. But the gods, who know I'm a good cook, but too lazy, had other things in mind. They forced that spirit to possess me, almost like an immaculate conception, which led my down the aisle where frozen turkeys were only 39¢ a pound, knowing I couldn't pass up a deal like that, and now I have a 14.39 lb.turkey in my freezer, and can't think of a way to weasel out of baking it next week, and feeding my neighbors, on Thanksgiving, against my will. However, I can't just feed them turkey, the gods told me. So they also forced me to buy stuffing, sweet potatoes, and cranberry sauce, and have a strong feeling I'm also going to bake pies, and pumpkin bread! I feel like a puppet on a string, with no way out. They must be trying to turn me into an angel, but I won't wear a white gown or wings.
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The Doctor
For all your tongue in cheek and oft times rude and crude jokes, that is likely exactly what the so called Christ of the ancient bible that spoke of the 7 virtues would highly approve of.
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Pastor George Day
Carl Bernard Elfstrom,
Poor turkey!!
In the new world, we will all be vegan!
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Lionheart
Your statement is at best fallacious due to its lack of demonstrable evidence.
Anyone can make statements they believe are true, but it doesn’t mean they are.
It’s like me insisting that fairies will rule the afterworld, if there is one, and we will all eat mushrooms. Do you see how silly that sounds?
🦁❤️
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart,
Not silly at all. All you have to do to see the evidence is simply wait :-)
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Lionheart
Okay! I guess I’ll have to wait to see the evidence that fairies are real. In the meantime I’ll assume they aren’t. Thank you Sir George.
🦁❤️
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Lionheart
Wish you lived closer Carl, you’d be most welcome to visit, break bread, eat, drink, and be merry with us.
🦁❤️
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart,
How about me and Denise, the woman living inside me? :-)
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Lionheart
Wish you lived closer Carl, you’d be most welcome to visit, break bread, eat, drink, and be merry with us.
🦁❤️
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James Berman
I myself, love Thanksgiving. It is one of the few holidays not focused on gifts and consumerism, but merely spending time in someone's presence and being thankful for what you already have, not what you are going to get. Christmas, for the most part is about the gifts, not Jesus. Santa has co-opted the Nativity. But, that's just my perspective..
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
In Christianity, God the Father started the whole ordeal by giving the world the greatest gift of all, his son, supposedly on Christmas day, which they stole from the Pagan Sabbat called Yule; the return of the sun. Gift giving on Christmas has spread like wildfire ever since that supposed event. And giving Christmas gifts at Yule even feels good to this former Christian who was saved by Paganism and Wicca, forty years ago. Blessed be!
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Nicole
This is the first time I have seen the words reversed about Pagan / Christian ... I love it!! former Christian saved by Paganism. Blessed Be my friend <3
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Paul
Merry meet! Yule wasn't the only Sabbat/holiday stolen, but that's another post...! But I, too, am a former Christian saved by Paganism and Wicca and feel so much better about it. We should be glad that the old religions are returning and growing exponentially.
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Nicole
Merry Meet!
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Pastor George Day
Paul,
And the statistics show that exorcisms are also on the rise! Go figure!
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Lionheart
I too was saved by paganism and became Wiccan, a branch of paganism. I literally jumped the broomstick, and tied the knot traditionally, when I married at a private cove on a beach, during sunset, in Maui. We fashioned our own besom, and silk braids for tying the knot. I have now moved on from there, but we still have an altar, and we have broomstick over our front door, with a variety of rose quartz scattered around our property. My wife is still holding onto some of her pagan thoughts, and that’s totally okay with me. Paganism saved her from being JW.
?❤️
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Nicole
Merry Meet! Bright Blessings to you & your wife! <3
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The Doctor
Actually the term Pagan specifically meant someone practicing one of the old roman faiths in rural regions during the rise of the early catholic church. Neo wiccans which is what the modern wiccan movement is more accurately called has nothing to do with that which was called pagan by those who came up with the term to denigrate those they saw as ignorant and backwards.
In the U.S. today the pagans would likely be the groups like the amish etc that practice old faiths largely derided by the mainstream.
For example Paula White the evangelical BFF of Cadet Bone Spurs Drumpf would likely see all other forms of christianity as pagan. I doubt she has enough respect or thought to other forms of worship to even warrant insulting them with the word pagan.
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart,
I am very fond of Jehovah's Witnesses! I have the full collection of the Studies in the Scripture by Charles Taze Russell, including the last volume by Joseph Rutherford. I also have the Photodrama of Creation. The Watchtower stopped publishing these a long time ago!
We Messianic Jews believe we are the real 144 000 (a symbolic number of course), whereas JWs believe in Replacement Theology.
You must introduce me to your wife! Denise will love her!
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elaine mckenzie
Yes.. yes.. yes.. Now, if people would remember to leave the trees outside to live... The gifts were for the nature spirits... we are starting to realize that we dont need to hide our nature loving rituals to keep from from being persecuted. People are waking up to their connection to the earth, eachother and more. just be silent for a bit and listen to your inner knowing. Blessed be!
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David A Griffith
Buy an artificial tree. By the time all the lights, ornaments, and other trimmings are on it looks real. If you must have a real tree buy it from a tree farm where they are replanting trees, starting the process over.
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Pastor George Day
Carl Bernard Elfstrom,
I pray that this new year you come back to the true knowledge of, and intimacy with, Yeshua.
Shalom :-)
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patrick
Doubtful, but I think your comment is a sign of something- of your obsession with said religion, that is. I'm not surprised that you had to go out of your way to make such a comment on a blog entry that's not even about Christianity. As I said, it's doubtful that the religion is "fading," especially when Jesus Christ is living it up 100% rent-free in the minds of people just like you. Happy holidays, bro; God bless you.
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Allen
Thanks Patrick. They are obsessed and I find it quite amusing that they appear on what should be a Christian site, for some reason I'm under the impression that ministers and pastors for churches have some connection to God and Jesus and the belief that God is love. The hatred that I see spewed out is mind-boggling.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Allen, this is not a Christian site because ULC is not a Christian sect. And minister is not a Christian word, but an English word found in the English dictionary, without any references to Christianity. ULC is only for people of all Faith's, religions, spiritual paths, and beliefs or lack of beliefs. Somehow that even includes Christians, but only those who seek to fit in with the rest of us. We've been known to run off those who promote discord, and so has the staff of ULC. They only print the comments they want to. And experience has proven to me that your kind doesn't last long around here. I suggest you try to fit in with the rest of us, instead of trying to change this blog into something it's not, and was never intended to be.
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Allen
Hi Carl. I sincerely apologize for Inferring that ministers are only Christian people. Anyone is entitled to call themselves whatever they want. I have no comments for whatever you wish to worship, pay homage to, or give money to. I only take offense with those who speak derogatory of the holy Bible that was written about Jesus. You're welcome to worship cows or anything else, That is why I take offense about Satan on here because he's in direct conflict and I know he's on here. If my intentions were Not understood, it's because I am poor at expressing good thoughts. Again my apologies.
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Stewart
Do some research on the supposed holy bible most of which was put togther at least 400 years after the fact .
And by one man yes they held a conference on it but after the arguing was all done decided to accept his as it was already set up .
hundreds of associated texts were left out as they contradicted the theme wanted and pronounced heretical .
And I will not get into translation issues when its impossible to translate English from the times of James the 1st into American English . LOL its hard to do so with Brit or Aussie to American. try telling a Sheila she has a nice fanny its kinda painful .-
Pastor George Day
Stewart,
You are so intellectually inaccurate that I find it mindboggling that you would even attempt to put such inaccurate information in a post!
Do your historical research, and find out the facts.
I recommend you read Lee Strobel.
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Pastor George Day
Allen,
You express yourself very well, and you do not stand alone. Be at peace -)
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Pastor George Day
Carl Bernard Elfstrom,
Universalism is rooted in Radical Protestantism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Christian_universalism
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Lionheart
But it isn't a Christian site Allen.
As for your "God is love" statement, I've read the Bible, and he clearly is very far away from emanating love as I understand what love is. His infanticidal, and genocidal, attributes show exactly what type of mythical deity he truly is. Thank you for your comments though.
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving, and may love, logic, and reason, bless you.
?♥️
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Lionheart
Thank you Allen, but please don't just glorify, and heap praise on me, others need thanks also for their illuminating and very educational secular responses to some very interesting topics.
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving. May love always fill our hearts!
?♥️
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Allen
You are right, Mr. Satan and it seems you are one of the reasons that this isn't a Christian site. Allen
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Lori Mongillo
The illusion is strong in this one, Lionheart. Those who live in fear of the fictional Satan are in constant psychological conflict with the world. This way of thinking has been passed down from generation to generation. Most Christians are stuck in a false reality. The truth is that religious superiority was never the original intent. The message was about breaking free of that superiority and opening the mind to a more empathetic reality. They focus more on the man they believe was God and totally ignore what he was trying to convey. Their superiority issues are enormous. If Jesus were alive today he would say, "What the hell is wrong with you people!"
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Pastor George Day
Allen
This is just as much a Christian church as it is open to pagan beliefs. We are registered as an online church, so people here should do their homework.
I regularly chat with the moderators, so I have checked the facts. We are a church, and as ministers, we gather here online at the Monastery.
Each minister has their independent ministry. But the church where we as ULC gather is this online venue.
Now, call it what you like, but this is quite a Christian laguage.
Again, I reiterate: Universsm was birthed by Radical Protestantim. This explains things.
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart,
Universalism has Christian roots. It i based on Quaker's philosophy that everyone can achieve salvation. ULC is just a by-product of that.
As for biblical injunctions, one ought to go back to the local historic culture of the stories. Archaeology has proved that the Canaanites were a horrible culture, where they would sacrifice their children. That, matched with free will and the need to cleanse the world from evil and create a society where the Messiah would be born, is going to create conflicts. Those children would have been killed anyway, probably by their own parents.
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The Doctor
Allen do you understand the term non-denominational? The ULC makes it very clear all forms of faith are under the banner. No one faith is superior to another inherently. And it is in fact christians like you who end up making your preferred faith look bad. Folks behaving like yourself make your faith seem arrogant, domineering, and dictatorial.
In other words you being a bad spokesman for your god is actually created the antagonism you are complaining about.
So maybe get a clue, learn to recognize faith is a personal thing not a decree from on high all must abide and obey, and maybe just maybe you will make friends of those with differing faiths rather then cause the conflict that makes enemies out of those of differing views.
In other words dont shove your savior down our throats and make us so sick we have to spew the bile it causes back out at you.
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Allen
Perhaps you should understand Mr. Dr., that I have no comment on any other faith. If you don't make derogatory remarks about the book that I referred to as the holy Bible that talks about my God that has a son named Jesus Christ, then you and I will get along just fine. This site is nondenominational, I am not. I have one God and he had one son and if you leave mine alone, I guarantee you I will surely leave whatever you worship alone.My original argument was with Mr. Satan who made some rather bad remarks about the Bible that talks about Jesus Christ. You just go right ahead and preach about your God. Or is that in small letters? Allen
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Pastor George Day
Allen,
You make your point quite well, and I fully stand by you in asserting the need to respect each other's belief system. No need for name-calling, though. Lionheart has his own experience of church.
We must be honest, after all, that churches have done a very bad job at preaching the Good News and welcoming the marginalized, sadly. That is why I have started a church where everyone is welcome!
We do not compromise mainstream truth, but we also do not banish anyone.
https://theologyofthebody.webador.co.uk/
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Pastor George Day
The Doctor,
Thank you for your comments.
Let me clarify that what we do here i debate! So, while I like to be friends with everyone, I will never compromise the truth I believe. I wouldn't be a true friend if I did.
In different contexts, we can certainly find things we agree with. But as far as sharing our beliefs, we all have the right to freedom of speech, in respect of one another.
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Pastor George Day
Allen,
They are all God seekers who have been wounded by the mainstream church at some stage. They need respect and understanding, while we have the tools here to engage in a debate.
I too was hurt by the mainstream church more often than not for being homosexual and non-binary, but I have made different choices. Yet, I understand where they are coming from.
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Pastor George Day
patrick,
I'm not quite sure who you are responding to, since you do not refer in your post. However, many would disagree that ULC has nothing to do with Christianity. Please check out our store.
Also, while by its very nature, Universal seeks nor expects to convert no one to Christianity, it is factually, rooted, and historically an expression of Radical Protestantism that recognizes that God manifests himself in the spiritual walk of everyone. That is the reason why Universal churches/denominations maintain a Christin-like language at its very basic.
There are three expressions of Protestantism: Magisterial, Radical, and Third Awakening. ULC falls on the second. Yet, because Universalism seeks unity with the universe without amalgamation, so to speak, you don't have to identify as Protestant at all. But that is what it is.
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Layne Harris
Lionheart Thanksgiving is not a religious celebration,therefore celebrated by Christians and non Christians alike. One has nothing to did with that other and absolutely had nothing to do with the state of religion today. Since Thanksgiving is celebrated by almost all Americans it would be bigger then Christmas here.....just like the 4th of July.
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Michael Eugene Gire
I am curious who or what you give thanks to and why you do it (if you do) since you say Thanksgiving is not a religious celebration. I would offer that every holiday is in some way connected to religious beliefs, be they spiritual or political in nature. I'm not being snide, I really am curious how you can separate a holiday whose very name thanks-giving implies a connection to some higher power, which of course is the very foundation of all religion.
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Howard Pippin
Good evening Lionheart. Religion is not fading, No, it's a fulfillment of prophecy. That they would have a form of religion and denied the power of, so there is no meaning that kind of faith.
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart,
Thanksgiving is meant to be celebrated instead of Christmas. It was introduced by the Pilgrim Fathers after the model of Sukkot. Sukkot is also the time Jesus was born and the time he will return, whereas Christmas has pagan origins. We Messianic Jews incorporate the birth of Christ liturgically and Thanksgiving at Sukkot, but of course, we tag along Thanksgiving and Christmas factually.
I hope this helps.
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These are some of the 'darkest' times I've ever seen, or experienced with some serious signs of times to come....so enjoying the company of my family and being together wasn't an option, or wasn't going to be compromised by 'falsehoods, and last minute laws'. This is a time for ALL to stand up and protect your freedoms....you have been played like 'sheep'....the 'wolves' have appeared to outnumber the 'herds', and are closing in for the kill....if you don't stand up now, tomorrow will be too late...(just like Venezuela).......the 'man made CHINA VIRUS, and the propaganda media has driven a 'brainwashing wedge' into the world's population......the smallest percentage will stiff arm the brainwashing, and never yield.....if you remember the times, and history those were the ones' that ended up in the 'arena's' and eaten for sport by the lions......the same is playing out right now......and the tyrannical world leadership is joining forces to form a ONE WORLD ORDER that has been in play, under the surface, but is now in full view. WAKE UP!!!!!!!! Closing schools, public places, recreation, churches......and lockdowns, is just the beginning....their plans will soon divide the masses by age, health, and finally whether you have any allegiance or not to their mission. The fewer that oppose the faster their plans will take hold....this is an evil movement....but it's well funded, and worldwide......this 'pandemic' was planned, well executed, and orchestrated.....it was intentional, and by full design, and yes it arrived, but it was unleashed, to be the ultimate WEDGE....by the COMMUNIST CHINESE PARTY....DO NOT ABANDON your family, friends, jobs, or schools....STAND UP and FIGHT......The HOLIDAYS celebrating THANKSGIVING, CHRISTMAS, HANNUKAH.....are meant to be for us...Christians of the world must stand strong against the evil will of the powerful well funded and almighty currency as they have it in their favor.......don't let them exterminate our freedoms......Brother JT has spoken...