You might recall past stories about Christian models starting successful careers on OnlyFans. One woman claimed that God doesn't judge her for how she makes a living.
Another woman even said that God spoke to her and said her true calling was to post nude photos online.
Among the many reactions to those stories were comments noting that OnlyFans models aren't straying as far from God as critics believe.
In fact, they pointed out that the "world's oldest profession" appears frequently in the Bible, and in surprising ways. So, we decided to do some research...
The Bible Takes on Prostitution
As it turns out, sex workers are mentioned throughout the holy book, both explicitly and implicitly.
And while the Bible generally condemns prostitution, it often has a sympathetic view of women who engage in it. Some stories even paint women who engage in prostitution as heroic.
So let’s take a look at some of the sex workers in the Bible, their role in biblical theology, and how the Bible views them.
1. The Story of Tamar
Tamar is a woman who appears in the Book of Genesis, and is the daughter-in-law of Judah.
After Tamar’s husband, Er, was struck down by God for his wickedness, Judah commanded her to marry Er’s brother Onan. Not wanting to lose his share of his inheritance with a potential son, Onan performed coitus interruptus, spilling his seed on the ground. God was so displeased with Onan’s pull-out that he struck him dead, leaving Tamar again a widow.
Now viewing Tamar as cursed, Judah refuses to marry his third son to Tamar, but deceives her by telling her to wait for him to come of age regardless.
Tamar ultimately takes things into her own hands, and disguises herself as a prostitute, puts a veil on her face to hide her identity, and is propositioned by and has sex with Judah.
Later, when Judah finds out that Tamar is pregnant (while technically still betrothed to his third son), he threatens to have her killed. But when it is revealed she is pregnant with his child, he admits his wrongdoing and admits, “she is more righteous than I.”
While the outcome of this tale almost certainly made for some awkward family dinners, there are also lessons to be learned from it.
First, the story introduces moral ambiguity and questions around ethical behavior, as it doesn't neatly fit into categories of right and wrong. Tamar is forced to take an unconventional path to secure justice, reflecting the complexity of ethical decisions in a flawed world.
The story also has added significance due to Tamar's lineage. She becomes an ancestor to David, and according to Christian belief, to Jesus Christ (making her Jesus' great-grandmother).
2. Rahab: Sinful or Heroic?
According to the Book of Joshua, Rahab was a prostitute who lived in Jericho, where she served many men – locals and travelers alike.
One day, the Israelites set out to conquer the Canaanite city. When the Hebrew army was encamped across the river Jordan and ready to lay siege, two men appeared at Rahab’s door.
She understood these men to be Israelite spies sent by Joshua to gauge the military might of Jericho, and secretly harbored them, deceiving the king’s men who came looking for the spies by sending them on a wild goose chase into the city instead.
In return, the spies offered Rahab and her family safety after taking the city, a deal which they honored. Rahab was granted a new lease on life thanks to her allegiance to Israel, and her genealogical line would ultimately lead to King David and Jesus.
The story of Rahab is often cited as an example of the transformative power of faith and the complexities of moral choices. Rahab's status as a prostitute is acknowledged, but does not define her in the biblical narrative.
Instead, she is remembered for her acts of faith, bravery, and her role in aiding the Israelites.
3. The Woman Who Anoints Jesus
Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John all tell of a woman who anoints Jesus with perfume. While details change between the four gospels, it is generally accepted by biblical scholars that all four accounts relate to one event.
While Jesus was in the home of Simon the Leper in Bethany, a promiscuous woman came to him with a jar of expensive perfume.
Although the woman’s profession is a subject of debate, the Gospel of Luke seemingly makes her job clear by calling her a “sinful woman” (and in that historical time period, sex workers were often gifted perfumes by clients).
The woman enters the home and weeps at the feet of Jesus, then dries his feet with her hair, and finally pours her jar of perfume on his feet. Some of the disciples were indignant, but Jesus shows his grace to the woman, praising her and forgiving her of her sins.
...And Mary Magdalene?
Mary Magdalene was a prominent disciple of Jesus, one of the women who followed Him and provided for His needs out of their own resources (Luke 8:2-3). She is also described as a witness to Jesus' crucifixion, burial, and resurrection.
But was she also the mysterious anointing woman? It's a topic of considerable debate among scholars, theologians, and religious practitioners.
Despite no specific scriptural evidence linking the two, over time, Mary Magdalene became identified with this unnamed woman.
Additionally, Mary Magdalene is described as having had "seven demons" cast out of her (Luke 8:2), but this description doesn't specify what kind of sinfulness or impurity those demons represented.
In the year 591, Pope Gregory the Great further solidified this perception by delivering a sermon where he explicitly identified Mary Magdalene with the sinful woman in Luke 7 and also with Mary of Bethany, who also anoints Jesus in a different account.
This sermon had a profound influence on Christian thought and was a major factor in shaping the popular image of Mary Magdalene as a repentant prostitute – and contributes to ongoing debate even today.
What the Bible Teaches About Sex Work
Modern Christianity takes a well-known negative stance on all types of "sexual sin."
Children raised in the Christian faith are often taught from a young age to value their purity, and wait until marriage to have sex. Virginity is put on a pedestal, and sexual freedom or experimentation is demonized.
But what do all these biblical stories tell us?
The sex workers of the Bible are complex characters who embody noble traits like bravery and justice even while engaging in "sinful" behavior.
They also played an integral role in the genealogy of Jesus – and the compassion shown by Jesus to the anointing woman is mentioned in all four synoptic gospels.
What do you make of these biblical sex workers?
116 comments
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
I love how these narratives single out women as "sinful". If nobody was buying, nobody would be selling - but somehow all the Johns get a free pass.
Interesting, isn't it.
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Keith Graham Ainsworth
No, Judah even stated that Tamar was more righteous than he was. Jesus never judged prostitutes either, and what he did is what the religion should be judged on, not attitude in the OT
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Jesus had to be on good terms with prostitutes, in order to get freebies. He never had enough money to pay for it, and didn't want to do it with his apostles all the time. Ofcourse, he could perform miracles in exchange for it too, but nobody really needs a whole lot of miracles
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Lori-Ann Neeb
Really? I disagree respectfully. He did have his human side as well as divine but he shared that with his wife, Mary Magdalene. They were very happy and both came from high ranking families so money was no issue to them.
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Lawrence A. Benson
What ? Sources please.
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Minister Raymond Butterworth
Kenneth,
That is a valid and interesting point.
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David Richard Procter
"It takes two to tango." We still share the basic attributes of all animals. We reproduce, and the process is mutually pleasurable under normal conditions.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I've had sex with women thousands of times, but we never reproduced, or even wanted to. We just wanted to have some fun with eachother, and get off. I'm sure most people are the same way, and few people only do it to reproduce.
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Rev Mark D
"Thousands" ?
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ServantOfJudgement
Carl,
Hands can't get pregnant and neither can men in dresses.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
The mother of Jesus was left off the list. She was at least an adulteress as she had an extramarital affair. She CLAIMED it was, uh, well, GOD!! Yeah, god did it.
And thus the beliefs of the religious grew even more delusional in nature.
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Carl Anthony Glenn
She wasn't married or betrothed at the time. And she didn't seek out Lord's sexual advances, Lord, descended upon her, saying she was àn honorable and decent woman.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
I'm thinking if I "descended" on some hapless young girl and had my way with her I'd be a dirtbag no matter what I told her.
Lord, please save us all from your followers.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Kenneth, do you mean if you descended on a girl from Heaven, without giving her a choice, like a dirt bag god, in a supposedly immaculate conception.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
It's good to be King. Amiright?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Anthony, that honorable and decent crap were just part of her facade. Mary was quite a whore, and had sex with too many men to know who the father of Jesus really was. She had to blame it on someone other than Joseph, who was too old to get it up, and at the same time save face. She thought of herself as a goddess anyway, worthy of getting laid by a god, so who better was there to blame it on?
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Lori-Ann Neeb
Where do you get this from? His mother was married to his human father. His divine side comes from being a mission life entity sent here to bring in the new covenant with the all loving God. The spiteful, jealous god of the old testament was human misconception and never true. His human father was older than his mother but that means nothing as to the man still being his human father.
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Brien
I knew it!!! The Bible was the original playboy magazine!!! ROFLMAO 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
No, it was the original National Enquirer - people begatting and sinning all over the place - and enquiring minds want to know!
I'm sure they sold a ton of whatever it was Mary put on Jesus' feet. Soap perhaps.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Brien, Playboy is too decent. It seems a lot more like Hustler Magazine (my favorite) to me. However, it's not nearly as funny as those Hustler cartoons.
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Rev Mark D
Pretty steamy stuff you have to admit... And while we're on the subject, are usual staff of fundamentalists are strangely quiet on this one.
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Gregory Leon Franklyn
Most people would say that Whitney Houston had a gift for singing. An anointing perhaps? Michael Jordan for Basketball, Keith Jarrett for playing piano, Frank Lloyd Wright for architecture. Why is it so difficult to accept that there are people in the world that have a gift or anointing for having sex? And, given that, why should those gifted people not be paid for their gift? I don't place judgement on sex work based on religion or faith. It is certainly looked down on by societies, but only because we say it's a bad thing. In the Bible (can someone help me out with Chapter & Verse) when discussing what we can and cannot eat, it says something to the effect that there is nothing evil, but what we make evil. In that sense, don't we make prostitution evil by the beliefs we hold about it? Aside from our judgment about it, is it actually evil?
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Rev Mark D
I am going to have to listen to some Keith Jarrett tonight. So glad you said it.
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Rev Mark D
God gave them the equipment that operates the way it does for a reason, correct? And don't you think in that case there is a case to be made for its masterful use?
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Lawrence A. Benson
My research has taught me that the bible professes that adultry, (the act of intercourse) between two people that are married but not to each other, is a sin. Anything else is "frowned upon" but not a sin. IMO
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Gordon Billingsley
Still, how many men did Jesus save from stoning for having sex with a prostitute? How many men were granted license to "take wives" (you can read that as rape) young women in cities that were razed and pillaged?
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Kent Anthony Estes
So here we go again, the chronic charge of SEX outside of marriage being illegal, immoral and a sin. Trying to keep wealthy and Royal bloodlines clean. Trying to track every drop of sperm. Hiding the sins of the elders on children and grandchildren. Blaming the young male or female as the problem while the older Priest, King, Leader or Elder has them stoned to death so they cannot tattle-tale on them. SEX is a very strong and powerful physical, mental force. The urges start happening around the 13 year old person and this journey is most usually shielded from these innocent children until far too late, or never at all. Many fathers and mothers avoid the conversations and turn a blind eye toward family events as the love for many of the children who grow up and cannot contain these enormous sexual urges while being given the role of protection to their younger siblings cousins and neighborhood children. Because the mother and father have to work. Sex education in the church is abysmal. Men have the luxury of hiding there newly engorged penis in pants while girls have everything exposed, unless they are wrapped up and stay hidden. The real problem comes from the younger bulls in the bull-pen and then the seasoned ones. Hiding this coming of age only protects the worst of offenders, from Priests to Kings, who would kill to protect their image, wealth and thrown. To not acknowledge the similar traits of the most powerful male animal willing to fight for their desire to copulate is simply madness. And the stories of those being put to death are usually to hide the sins of the elders. Isn't that the real truth? Trying to keep us distantly separated by that insanely powerful urge is the whole mystique. But alas that's why little boys are prized targets, they dont get pregnant, so there is that advantage. I find it very interesting that this Power is virtually denied in the Americas. In sports not much is said to males other than the statement to young men to not have sex before a match, or sporting event. Why? It is the center of Power in men. The Old testaments just barely references that masturbation (tossing your seed) is sinful and thats about all that is mentioned. In Oriental there is mention of the CHI Others talk about the Kundalini NO mention or in depth training of this in Christianity. But it is a powerful reality and women (and men) are rabidly into watching sports! Many more than watching a church session. Praising and cheering the most powerful Gladiator. Its Primal. We Laude praises on Rafa Nadal until Carlos Alcaraz rises in rank. or Tom Brady and on and on in all sports. And its not as rabid in the womens sports... Not my opinion, however the stats on male sports and funding for television is much higher than for female athletics. So back to teaching our young men (and women) about this transformational energy that takes place around their 13 year old birthday is paramount to a new dawn in Christianity. and family values. The denial of this is beneficial to those sinners on high, and why why its kept secret. So yes many times prostitution happens from rape created internally to family or Kings and wealthy, or from poverty, whether Men or Women. I find that usually those who want to condemn this practice are the Zealots and high and mighty ashamed of their fiery furnace that burns within them or did in the past, to draw attention away from themselves and cast the nasty performance of these poor souls as the ultimate sin. SEX is a very powerful force that we try to hide and find difficult to communicate to our family. Because we are better than animals! Why is this so hidden? Money, Power and Politics
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Rev. MichaelRS
Separating paragraphs makes the read a lot easier and so gets your point across better
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
And let's not forget "Brevity is beautiful".
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Rev Mark D
I think everybody ought to go back and read the very useful and readable book "The Naked Ape."
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
And how many of those kinky men were masochists, who did it in hope of getting stoned?
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Rev Mark D
Define "stoned."
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James Shane
A most interesting discussion. My eyes were opened. Discussions like this are helpful.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
"Discussion" is helpful.
Bless you.
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Nicholas J Page
How can we be absolute certain these women were sex workers.Does proof exist about these promiscuous people.I wouldn't have thought prostituting would go as far back as the Bible.If they were I would imagine that sexual diseases weren't rife then as they have been today.
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Robert Edward Szekely
That certainly counts as a naive perspective.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Nicholas, haven't you heard that prostitution is the world's oldest profession. You certainly seem to have lived a very sheltered life.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
WHY would you not think that prostitution did not exist in biblical times? As for sexually transmitted diseases not being as prevalent, would you think that they existed? Likely, huh? Did latex condoms and antibiotics exist? If your answers are ‘yes’ and ‘no’ then what would prevent the spread? People gonna’ copulate. The bible has god commanding man to go forth and hump! That stuff is gonna’ spread.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Dr. Zerperzande, haven't you heard of lamb skin condoms. They could have been using the real thing back then.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Although lambskin condoms prevent pregnancy they have limited (no) effectiveness in preventing STDs. So we are back to my original question as to what would have prevented the spread in biblical times.
“ Because lambskin condoms don’t offer you protection from STIs, ” https://www.verywellhealth.com/what-are-lambskin-condoms-906783
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Rev Mark D
Yeah you're right, robert, let's ignore all the leprosy and all the actual descriptions of women sex workers and having to marry brothers and forget about esther, forget about ruth, and all the others that did get managed to mention. If you don't look then it doesn't exist I guess huh? Even if it's right there in black and white text. To call O'Brien naive is being unnecessarily, perhaps even maybe obviously sarcastically, polite. Come on o'brien, aren't you in the camp that usually says that if it wasn't for women, there would be no sexual immorality?
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Colleen McAllister
God does not judge us by our job, but by our willingness to serve. We are all sinners yet He knows which of us has the heart to help. Jesus died for all of humanity not just the few. He saw in these women a willingness to do the right thing, even if economically they were forced into a sinful lifestyle. I am happy that God can use the worst of us to do mighty works.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
You ain’t doing nothing mighty here. Only wanna’ be preachers and trolls making fun of you because you’re sticking around in the kiddy pool. Slap on your plastic preacher’s badge, grab your copy of the Goatherder’s Guide to the Universe and start Praising Cheeses!
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Kristian Stald Olsen
You know that somewhrere in the bible, it tells us that we see other as deep as we se us self?
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
‘Somewhere’? Really? Source?
My comment was that god wasn’t doing any ‘mighty works’ through her on this little forum. Myself? Just tossing lures out to the same old fish. No delusion# of mighty works on my part.
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Lionheart
Eventually, every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess, that all religionists have been conned and sold down the river by their particular god that they want to believe in. How long will it be before they all wake up to the realities of indoctrination?
🦁♥️
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Rev Mark D
"How long will it be before they all wake up to the realities of indoctrination?"
Well you know since they created God in the first place, and the use of God serves particular functions that they desire to be served, the answer is probably 'never' don't you think?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Lionheart, I sure am glad my gods and goddesses don't require me to get down on my knees, for my orthopedic knee surgeon, Dr. Frank Ivy, at UTMB in Galveston told me to never apply pressure to my dislocated knee and patella, and I'd only follow his orders over a god I'd only hear in my mind, since the good doctor has documented credentials. I'd also be quicker to believe that God was speaking through him when he gave me that order. And no sir, I couldn't convince you of that, and wouldn't want to.
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Brien
So you are a servant? Slave? Are you allowed to have your own opinions or does your "god" think for you? That is the trouble with being a slave, no one takes you seriously because your thoughts are not your own. Peace ✌️
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James Shane
Jesus thoughts were not his own but were what gave him his joy!!!!
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Brien
Can you prove that? Let's say for arguments sake that there was a Jesus. Let's say that this was a real person. He could have been some wondering homeless guy with mental issues. You don't know, I don't know. That is a whole lot of "don't know" to base a belief on. Peace ✌
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
You'd never believe all the wandering homeless guys I've met on the Galveston seawall who claimed to be Jesus. And some of them were still wearing their hospital bracelets. There is a large mental hospital here which is part of the University of Texas Medical Branch (main campus) here in Galveston. And I don't know if they do, but they could easily have a whole ward for patients who think they are Jesus. The original Jesus might have even been a good candidate for such a place.
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Rev Mark D
Carl, you make me wonder what kind of conversations they would have on that ward, I mean conversations with each other. I bet they'd be real interesting.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
A flock is a group of believers.
What do you call a group of saviors?
Probably a melee.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I never read anything in the bible about Jesus being joyous. As the fairytale goes, he didn't like a lot of what was going on in this world, which is absolutely nothing to be joyous about. And if he didn't like it he shouldn't have come here in the first place. Not very many people were joyous about him being here iether, or they wouldn't have killed him. Not one member of the audience lifted a finger to stop his crucifixion. It sounded like they were having too good of a time watching the show.
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Catherine
@Colleen McAllister
"I am happy that God can use the worst of us"?
A comment like that can boggle a brain. Presumptuous condescension? God is a user? We are his used? Moving on...
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Stanley Post
Judge not
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Well, it's time for supper, and then some more episodes of Merlin. Watching that show as diligently as I do, in addition to my participation on this blog, and a few other things, might be contributing to awakening the wizard within.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
White Owl, preaching about our religious beliefs has nothing to do with what this blog is about. Although you can talk about them if you want, don't expect the rest of us to share your beliefs, or even respect them. When people throw it in our faces, many of us are quick to make fun of them . That's why you don't hear me talking about my beliefs around here, besides the fact that my religion doesn't proselytize, or care what others believe in, or care where their going when they die. Besides that, all we ever have is the present moment anyway.
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Rev. MichaelRS
This is ridiculous. There is nothing heroic or noble or seemly about prostitution. Particularly as it is practiced by many today.
That profession is full of sad sad women who were often sexually abused as children and thus are suffering from a variety of mental illnesses that prevent them from having normal relationships with decent men.
Or it is girls that started out as runaways and/or drug addicts and ended up being sex trafficked or having to turn solo tricks to support their habit.
And then there are the variety of diseases they get, carry and pass on. You think those biblical hookers had access to penicillin or the men wore condoms? YUCK.
These girls and women need help, support and encouragement, to include a substantial amount of psychological counseling, to come out of.
This business of trying to put lipstick on the pig of the sex trade is nothing short of hedonistic nonsense. These are poor sad girls with corrupted lives not Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman or any of the hookers in The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas.
Trying to paint it any other way comes from a place of evil
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
I thought of being Christian once, decades ago. I read the New Testament, and I liked a lot of it, and I thought I'd join the club, so I told a Christian friend of mine.
"You can't be a Christian," he said.
"Why not?" I asked.
"Because you don't believe in Satan," he replied. We talked a lot about religion, so he knew this. "You can't be a Christian unless you believe in Satan."
And that's when I learned the truth about Christianity. At first it's all rainbows and unicorns, all "Love thy neighbor" and Sermon-on-the-Mount and the Beatitudes - but then when it comes time to actually join the club it's judgement and hellfire and damnation and sin and Satan around every corner. That's the Bait-and-Switch right there.
That's the POV I couldn't - and don't - accept, because the real disturbing thing about Christianity is the sheer volume of people who just LOVE to tell you about judgement and hellfire and damnation and sin and Satan around every corner, and eagerly demand that you too see evil everywhere - because that's the "moral" thing to do. These are invariably the very same people who are the self-appointed gender police, the crotch inspectors who are so VERY interested in what's in everybody's pants and what they're doing in their own bedrooms - the busy-body Gestapo who live to enforce their "righteous" lifestyle on every other person on earth - because "God wants it!" They see all and know all, though they would never admit it - but never try to tell them any different! You will invariably join the list of the damned if you do, because looking at any reality other than theirs is apparently original sin, to hear them tell it.
Maybe prostitutes need help, maybe they don't - but I'd rather hear it from them. Plenty of people need help - no matter what they do for a living. Even Satan knows that.
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Catherine
@Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Though I've never been Episcopalian, I appreciate Bishop John Shelby Spong's views.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/1416834/life-after-death-church-invented-hell-control-people-bishop-john-shelby-spong-evg
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Robert Edward Szekely
Not all sex-workers are coerced.
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Daniel Charles Blecha
You only mention "those sad girls": what about mentioning how "sad" many, hmm, most men are...
Rather than being true and just and worthy of being, many men use for their own purpose whatever and whoever.
Also in our extensive studies as cognitive neuroscientists we have found most men are terrible "lovers", are terrible communicators & are little more than alike little boys.
Rather than speak about "what is wrong with women... what we do is educate all starting with how to communicate ( with oneself first & foremost as it is conditioned in flaw adults do to ruin the young), then show what real intimacy, relationships & valuable purpose are. We bring humans up to a higher level of being: never just nitpick with no solutions other than " be good..." ==== hmm What is "good" in the first place as in fact WHAT IS BELIEVED AND PASSED ON IS NEARLY 100% WRONG IN THE 1ST PLACE).
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Rev. MichaelRS
Yes, men who use, abuse and take advantage of girls/women that are in a life of prostitution are generally dirtbags for any number of reasons.
It doesn't matter which side of the aisle, the sex trade is filled with drugs, mental illness and crime beyond just basic anti-prostitution laws.
Trying to add further decay to society by philosophically trying polishing the sex trade turd is nonsensical.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Or maybe those conditions exist only because prostitution is heavily criminalized in the first place?
Traditionally in western society the patriarchy has worked to marginalize and control women. We still see this in the anti-abortion, anti-equal-rights, and anti- DEI movements - and clearly women would have the most to gain from legal sex work.
Judging from your descriptions, the law has women right where the patriarchy wants them - disenfranchised and victimized.
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Rev. MichaelRS
It doesn't matter if you are a man or a woman, whether for pay or pleasure, there is nothing to be gained by promiscuity of any sort.
Rare will be the find of a former sex worker, whether prostitute or adult film actor, who looks back upon their career and has the opinion it was a great, rewarding and fulfilling life. Yes there may be monetary reward but by and large it is soul crushing.
Therefore no favor is being done for women in "liberating" them to pursue sex work.
The only purpose for permissive attitudes toward it such as this is the complete destruction of morality and the nuclear family and to turn people further away from God.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
There it is again. There simply is no life, no valid perspective outside of that 1950's 'nuclear family of yours. It's just not possible - there is ONLY your homogenous conformist worldview, and anything else is just evil 'promiscuity'.
Well guess what - I used to live in Nevada where they DO have legal prostitution, and do you know what a lot of those 'soul crushed' young women did with their 'monetary reward'? They put themselves through college is what they did, then they moved on.
And that is EXACTLY what you are terrified of - that women will have no need to be owned by a man or popping out babies, that they will USE their SEX to better themselves, which is so UNFAIR because women are the fairer sex and you aren't it - and if you can't have it, nobody can.
And then you lecture everybody about morality and God. That's the punch line.
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Rev. MichaelRS
In those relatively rare cases that girls do use sex work to get through college there are none of them in their later lives that are proud to stand up and say that's how they did it. Unless of course they are now activist in the world of debauchery which a large part of the alphabet community has turned into.
Other than that they know they were wrong and they feel shame because of it. So they tell people they got through college as a waitress or nanny or anything else except a stripper or whore.
And they have not really moved on. It may appear like that on the outside, but on the inside a little part of them has been destroyed knowing what they did.
And you're obviously confused, conflating women engaging in sin and debauchery with womanly Independence and self-determination.
And this perceived war between men and women is Satan's plan. It is not God's plan. Men and women are different not only physically but temperamentally and it's part of God's plan they should be united and stronger together as those differences complement each other.
1 Corinthians 6:18 tells us: 18- Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whomever sends sexually sins against their own body.
The bottom line there is nothing positive to the individual or Society about sex work it destroys individual lives and families by providing temptation to morally bankrupt men to commit adultery. And make no mistake about it. If you are a married man and you're going to see women displaying themselves sexually at strip joints you are committing adultery.
You are disrespecting in your insulting and disrespecting your wife and if you engage with prostitutes even more so because you double the risk of bringing home diseases to your wife and destroying the family through duvorce.
And of Satan who is behind these various alphabet activist movements; destroy the family, destroy love of God and most of all, destroy God's greatest creation, humanity, through aberrant sexual practices
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
My goodness MRS - you're such an authority on sin! Who knew you personally know all these prostitutes, and have followed them all through life, and have such a deep understanding of all the complexities nuances and variations of human sexuality, and Satan's place in it.
But I've seen it all before too. Every fundamentalist is convinced that the universe and everyone in it is exactly whatever they think, which is what you are doing here.
You will of course deny that you know everything - and you will also never accept being told any different. It's not that you know everything - it's just that you know more than whoever you're talking to - right?
There is plenty of reality our there to blow your every delusion out of the water - but I recognize shouting down a well when I hear it.
Enjoy.
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Rev. MichaelRS
I understand that you, like many here, probably got your "ministership" to mock people of morality and faith in general and God in particular.
But just know that, in the end, God is not mocked.
"Do not be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever one sows that will he also reap. For the one that sells to his own flesh WILL from the flesh reap corruption... ." ~Galatians 6:7-8~
In the end it will be God who judges. But He will judge those that know the truth yet purposely lead others astray more strictly ~James 3:1~
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
I get that all the time - more magic religious spells from those who speak for God.
You're only ~leading astray!~ yourself.
You are known.
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Rev. MichaelRS
I don't speak for God. God speaks to all through His scriptures. But there's nothing I can do since you reject God's word.
I'm not going to list them all here, but anybody who wants to can easily search, "What happens to those that reject God's word"
So I leave you to your fate.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
God created the universe. Even your 'word' says that.
So when you ignore what is right in front of your face, what does that say about you?
Your 'word' is designed to elicit acquiescence. I can't compete with that. In the end, it's reality against your resolve.
Individuality always gets what it wants, sooner or later. Rejoice.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Michael, the things you could gain through sexual promiscuity could be a larger collection of sex toys.
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Catherine
@Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Thank you for being a voice of reason and sanity in this thread. I wanted to stay out of this discussion altogether because I've too much to say. Oh well.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
I want to thank you too for your contributions in general on this blog.
I look forward to your comments, which are always clear, concise, and enlightening.
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Catherine
@Rev. MichaelRS
I hear your concerns, though I think you are less familiar with sex workers than your words imply. Perhaps less with what God thinks, as anyone must be. There's a saying, "Let go and let God", yes? Why don't you?
As a former licensed exotic dancer - considered a sex worker where I lived - I promise I was not exploited, abused, or uncomfortable in any sense. There was an initial learning curve, though it was surprising how natural dancing that way can feel. I had been in ballroom and western dancing, so perhaps there was not as much a leap for me?
In the presence of people who knew little to nothing about what I did and did not do, I would refrain from discussing work should the subject arise, only out of respect for differences and to not invite conflict. Not from any sense of shame.
I lost my first husband to the military. Remarried eventually. My 2nd husband took me to work and picked me up. Security staff and cameras inside and outside kept the environment 'squeaky clean'. Co-workers used drugs no more or less than at other jobs I've had including in the military, a hospital, and a law firm.
Altogether I performed nearly five years. Was I a stripper? Yep. Always? Nope. Nearly ran the gamut of exotic dancing entertainment from costumes with pantyhose pinned beneath and double sided carpet tape in tops, to full nude. Sometimes I performed humorous shows for parties. Sometimes stage or poles, or both. Sometimes jello wrestling (not as fun as that might seem what with ice used to make the jello).
No sexual acts were involved, though I do not think anyone who chooses to should be judged. I don't live their life. And at one time, my husband worked at a club with me and he was my escort to most shows. If he wasn't, someone else was paid to be there. I was fortunate to be in circumstances in which I could choose a path. Some are less fortunate, men and women alike.
Here, I am compelled to speak another truth: compared to men, women typically are the worst behaved customers in a male dance club. 'Magic Mike' barely showed the tip of that iceberg. If male customers did a tiny fraction of what female customers get away with, they are (were?) removed, possibly banned, and more clubs would be shut down. So I do wish women would represent themselves more respectfully and respect male dancers.
Those who use(d) dancing to further themselves is a long list. Their efforts should not be diminished or sullied by ignorance, self-righteous judgment, or pity. Neither should customers be judged or pitied.
Dancing allowed more time with my sons. That money was used to move forward. Doing so is much more common than you (most people?) realize.
One co-worker became an airline pilot. One was a competition bodybuilder. Another, a corporate tax attorney. Another, a PhD in psychology. One was a Sunday School teacher : . ) Several became school teachers. One established a corporate real estate company. Another, an EMT. There are more, though hopefully the point is made.
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Rev. MichaelRS
Look I don't know what to tell you. All I can tell you is what scriptures say in the matter, and what I, as a former police officer for 23 years in Los Angeles County, have observed. And that is the field of sex work has ruined many lives and involves a large amount of organized crime, human trafficking and abuse. If yours is a the microcosm exception to that, then I'm happy for you. But I assure you it is the exception rather than the rule and a few anecdotal stories do not change the detriment and harm it has done to hundreds of thousands of people, mostly women, in today's world.
Buy If through the scriptures you can find anything that says anything good about it please let me know. I'm not going to list a bunch of scriptures here if anybody's interested all they have to do is search:
"What does the Bible say about promiscuity"
then scroll down to about the second or third result by OpenBible.info. and they will see what the scriptures have to say about it. Those various scriptures of course deal with direct sexual promiscuity but also indirect.
For example, if you're a man and you're married and you're going off to a strip club you're committing adultery.
The only window we have into what God thinks about such things and the world in general are those scriptures. If those scriptures are not valid to you or your faith has you operating on another set I don't know what to tell you.
As for me, I cannot take on the sins of the world. Fortunately there was somebody that has already done that some 2000 years ago.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
That explains some things MRS.
I've always respected cops. Every day they go looking for trouble.
Guess what happens.
Thank you for your service - but your world is not the whole world.
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Catherine
@Rev. MichaelRS
Don't each of us move through life based on a personal sphere of influences and experiences?
You speak here as if there is one truth for all. With broad brush strokes that want to obliterate personal truths and experiences of others.
The friction you feel is you chafing yourself with every attempt to put other individuals in your boxes.
Masochism?
And your use of 'anecdotal' is the same as when a doctor and patient experience and describe the same illness. The doctor's words are epidemiological. The patient's words are anecdotal. Both are equally valid.
The bottom line for me, is the bible is anachronistic. Not the first or last word about sex workers. And should not be.
Me thinks men who wrote the bibles were at least a little biased, and / or obsessed with controlling the lives of others.
That's not to say nothing in bibles is valid. I am saying life is less irritating and fewer noses are bent when not in the business of others.
A lot could be done about all manner of abuses. However, the bible is not a magic wand, that when waved at abusers, abuses disappear simply because everyone does what they're supposed to according to God's word. Is that rational thinking?.
Some of the worst abusers in history have been glorified and sainted, or given undeserved status and privileges that allowed them to continue abusing. Christopher Columbus had his own holiday. Thanksgiving in America was originally established by a Dutchman to celebrate a final massacre of indigenous people. Some were even popes. And the KJV bible was extrapolated from theirs.
https://www.vaticancitytours.it/blog/who-were-the-worst-popes-in-history/
History repeats itself because we do not learn enough from what has been shared, and because unity between people has been relentlessly attacked by religious sociopaths and narcissists.
I think no one can change human nature.
I think 99.99999% of the people in this world can rise above their worst potentials from within.
I think religious words from men a couple thousand years ago, more often than not perpetuated many abuses rather than abating those.
I think organized religions don't really care to end abuses that serve them well in prisons, political gain, wealth, homeless institutions, endless nominal assistance, and yes, prostitution.
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Catherine
@Rev. MichaelRS
Meant also to add, I worked with police, and a private investigator. My first husband was police.
I really can imagine what understandably colors your insights.
If the bible and God's word serves you well, that's great. If only a collection of words could be so powerful for everyone. Except, we are all so unique that is probably on the short list of impossibilities.
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Rev Mark D
All very well stated.
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Catherine
@Rev. MichaelRS
Some time ago, I met a woman, who after a few months or so of getting to know, said she'd been a prostitute since age 15 when her father died, leaving a chronically ill mother and several younger children to care for. This came up in discussion when a man said, "prostitutes will all go to hell". She believed God knew what is in a heart and no one else has the right to judge her except God.
She looked like the average next door neighbor, "Ivory Girl" type. Dignified. Self-respecting. Nice home. Not at all like any common stereotype. She put three siblings through college and helped the other two become self-employed as a mechanic and chef.
I think we listen too much to media and what other people say, who think yet don't know much about such circumstances. They should count themselves fortunate, yes?
No doubt there are young girls and boys, even adults, who become prostitutes who do need help. Still, I would not be quick to assume what I know next to nothing about. I'm not sure why anyone does that. It is not a matter of logic.
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Kristian Stald Olsen
You have a good point, by god is all knowing, and all seeing.
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Lionheart
….. and does absolutely nothing. 🤷🏼
🦁❤️
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Lionheart, maybe that god just likes to sit back, and watch a good show.
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Rev Mark D
All knowing and all seeing, but evidently then with no compassion no love and no caring, to let it all happen. More like a Greek or Roman god, which is to say psychopathic, destructive, cruel and infantile... All the things that we now call inhumane.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
It seems there is a certain mentality that needs that.
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Kristian Stald Olsen
This comment, was a mistake, it was suppost to be deletet.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Kristian, the word supposed is supposed to be written the way I have twice written it in this sentence.
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Dawn Waffle
Well... I'd like to say that discussion is a great start amongst us, as we can bring that to our 'flock'. But to start we must say, First, there is Hope, and then Prayer, but surrounding every issue is Love. Blessings to All. Rev. Dawn
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Dàwn, I can't see how love has anything to do with biblical sex workers, or even having sex at all, unless you're doing it with someone who you're mutually in love with. I guess you can pray before having sex with them, but it might be better to cast a spell, so they won't charge you as much.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Also Dawn, how can you be mutually in love with someone who's charging you for sex? Unless ofcourse, it's just a bedroom game y'all are playing.
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White Owl
So C.B.E., why are you here? What is/are your religious belief(s), as supposedly everyone here is an ordained minister who professes a religious belief system that they minister to others? I've never seen any Statements or arguments put forth by you in any comments out here that ever present a counter theological view to the subject at hand. Therefore I ask, what is your religious point of view? Hating all religions is not a religious point of view, that I am aware of, it is, however, hateful and prejudicial but not a religion. I'm curious if you claim Pagan or especially Wicca (as you've mentioned the suggestion to others of using a spell) since both of those do not usually operate in hate and attacks on other's beliefs, especially Wicca. Or is your 'religion' "Hater"? If so I understand that, a hater's going to hate and you seem to do that well. But, it is not a religion. So, why are you here?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Hoot, hoot White Owl, if you'd been reading my posts and paying attention to them for very long you'd know what my beliefs are, and the name of my religion. But since you haven't figured it out yet I won't deprive you of finding out on your own, by paying more attention to my posts on the subject, in the future. Everyone who writes on this blog is an ordained ULC minister. And far from all of us have the same beliefs. If you think I am against any religion or spiritual path, you couldn't be more wrong. I dub myself an interfaith minister, and minister to all in accordance with their beliefs, not my own. I'm not here to minister to our fellow ministers, although am glad that my words sometimes help. I don't think it's a good idea to take everything that's said on this blog too seriously, but to find humour in it, along the way. Ofcourse, some of us have drier senses of humour than others, and some will take offense to what others find humorous, but it's never meant to be truly offensive. This isn't a free for all, and the good ULC moderators only post the comments they think are appropriate. You'd never believe all the comments of mine that didn't get posted, but far more of mine do get posted now, so maybe I'm getting better.
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White Owl
C B Elfstrom, you laid an egg alright but the yokes on you. That is humor, although admittedly not that good, not some vitriol laced commentary that one calls humor to disguise the subtle attacks at others out here.
I've read your post through this thread and failed to divine anything more about your religious beliefs than what I had already stated in my original post. You however, you replied with all the skills of a politician. You wrote a lot of words and really said nothing other than you are a jack of all faiths and a master of none and even that is questionable.
You avoided answering any of my questions and diverted into a distraction of implying that everything said by others should not be taken too seriously and that what they say is a joke. Quote you "find humor in it". I would be bold enough to say that many out here are not telling jokes but are speaking from their hearts and souls about their deep seeded religious beliefs.
And then you boast of "all of the comments of" yours "that didn't get posted", adding credence to my original statements and questions. I have never been censored or deleted by the moderators because I communicate with others to learn and teach but not to hate or attack. You have to give respect to get respect.
So my original questions remain unanswered despite your 'word salad'.
Perhaps your post below, referencing the Rolling Stones song, goes further towards answering my questions than your rhetoric here. That being said, I have no sympathy for you only my hopes and prayers for your good and for those whom you touch out here.
Blessings to all,
White Owl
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Once again I've come to realize that some of our fellow ministers must be ignored, for the good of the whole. I don't usually care to read long posts anyway, which ramble on and on, like anyone who speaks for more than three minutes in an A.A. meeting.
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White Owl
Wouldn't know, never had to be at one of those so I trust to you for your analogy.
As for long ramblings my response is only 35 words more than your original response.which was 71 words longer than my original post.
But unlike you I have a life and ministry outside of the cyber world so say what you wish from this point on, it will just be more avoidance of the questions and circular rhetoric. Those who use such methods can never be educated because their mouths are open and their minds are closed.
As for me this thread is closed and I move on in life.
Shalom to all,
White Owl
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Rev Mark D
Ouch. Eagerly awaiting an answer, but I wouldn't hold my breath, those are very barbed questions.
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Brien
What is your religion? How dare you try to lump everybody together in some mythical belief club. I am guessing that your thoughts come from one of the magical beliefs. That is fine... for you. Not everyone uses the religious crutch to justify their existence. Some of us have faith in ourselves, no magic being needed. ULC is open to EVERYONE, not just those that share your illusions. I hope this clears it up for you. Peace ✌️
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
That owl doesn't know it yet, but I'm about to lay an egg so big in it's nest that it's going to knock it right out of its tree.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
That owl doesn't know it yet, but I'm about to lay an egg so big in it's nest that it's going to knock it right out of its tree.
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Tedorsha Marie Price
Just as Jesus 12 disciples were sinners they picked up their cross and followed him. Yes a prostitute can and will be forgiven of her sinful actions it's all about who she has faith in Jesus Christ or man. Have a blessed night. Much love
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Tedorsha, as long as a prostitute doesn't charge too much I can't see how it would be sinful. They also should let you know in advance if they have a contagious illness, especially if you want to engage in unsafe or kinky sex acts with them.
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Rev Mark D
Tedorsha You win the prize for best answer of the string.
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Robert Allen O'Connell
You guys are brave enough to take "stuff" head on with little bias! All are well aware that prostitution is the oldest profession known to human being. Jesus taught without condemning to give guidelines for life, and His can be quite challenging! He did practice what He taught. His every word can be trusted or He by far would be the greatest liar that ever was! "Judge not, or you will be judged" was demonstrated in the religious leaders of the day bringing the lady caught in the very act" to Jesus. He had a right to judge the leaders due to the fact they had made themselves judges going against what Jesus had taught. Jesus also did not come to the planet earth to condemn the world, but rather save it. He did not condemn the accusers, but wisely laid down an opportunity for those "knuckle heads" to get out of their stupidity. "He that is without sin, throw the first rock". They wisely knew better than push the issue.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
When I'm on a roll, I'm really on a roll. I'm just making up for the articles I skipped. Well, I can't relate to all of them, so I just pick and choose the ones I like best.
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Caleb Hensley
We all clicked because of the dopamine hit we would get by reading this edgy, religiously sexy article. We all think we want some sort of justification that sex outside of marriage at will is condoned by God.
Truth is, it's meaningless. Basic. Animal.
You can easily find reasons to justify why you can have sex with whoever is willing, if you seek those reasons out.
It's harder to resist.
When you resist, you increase discipline and focus, you seek a higher purpose for living, and inevitably and naturally make an good impact on lives around you in ways you otherwise couldn't.
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Daniel Gray
And even back then it was looked on with disgust and disdain. So whats your problem?
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
And 2000 years of your religion cleaned that right up, didn't it.
Oh wait - your religion didn't work then, and it doesn't work now. In fact, don't you like to brag about how many religious people there are while at the very same time complaining about how things just seem to get worse and worse?
So smart, yet still can't put 1 and 1 together.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
And like the good ol' rock n roll song goes "Pleased to meet you. Won't you guess my name".
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Merlin
Contrast enables sight.
By the narratives alone, these patriarchal narratives places all women subservient, therefore just a tool for use. Regardless of intent, equality has never been a priority. Women were at best were property and at worst a type of slave. Who judges? The "Self Righteous".
No mention of Ruth and no mention of Esther. Why?
I bet some of those women dominated their men in their bedrooms. They couldn't have all been into the same things.