According to a new poll, men and women disagree on abortion more now than they have at any point in the last 30 years. Now scholars are trying to figure out why.
For decades, men and women were roughly aligned on this issue. Since 1998, there’s rarely been a significant differential between them when it comes to abortion rights. But that all changed a few years ago, after the Supreme Court’s verdict in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization overturned Roe v. Wade, ending a national right to an abortion for women and turning the issue back over to the states.
Since that court’s ruling, women have increasingly identified as pro-choice, while men have actually drifted away from abortion rights and become more pro-life. In just a matter of years, what was once a two-point difference between men and women when it comes to abortion has ballooned into a 20 percent gap, according to Gallup:
Churchgoing a Factor?
Could religion have a role to play in this shift? In recent years, young men have begun attending church in record numbers – leaving some to wonder if the two trends could be related.
Last year, a Pew study rocked the world of faith, unveiling that for the first time, women were leaving church faster than men, reversing decades of female-dominated rates of religiosity. Studies show this development is being spearheaded by young men, who are returning to the fold in record numbers.
In many cases, the religious communities they are joining adamantly oppose abortion rights. A 2024 Pew Research poll found that just 25% of evangelical protestants said abortion should be "legal in all/most cases," while 73% said it should be "illegal in all/most cases."
Men Return to the Pews
What's driving this return to faith?
Are churches getting better at reaching young men? Is a cultural ecosystem of faith-oriented influencers guiding young men back towards Christianity? Or is the intersection of conservative politics and the Christian faith bringing Gen-Z males – a majority of whom voted Republican in 2024 – back to the flock?
Well… could be all of the above. As Dr. David Campbell, a political scientist at the University of Notre Dame, explained, “if you’re a young white male these days and you think of yourself as conservative, then being religious is a part of that.”
Interestingly, this shift has upended a separate trend many thought was inevitable: The rise of "None" as the fastest-growing "faith" in the United States.
A Widening Gap
The widening gender gap on abortion rights could have myriad causes. After all, in a post-Dobbs world, it's women's reproductive rights that are at stake. As those directly affected by anti-abortion laws, women naturally have stronger feelings on the issue.
But that's only one side of the equation; What is causing male support for pro-choice causes to drop?
One thing is for sure: this gap represents a cultural flashpoint that is unlikely to dissipate anytime soon.
What do you think? Is the religious and cultural drift of young men a likely explanation, or is there another cause at play?
184 comments
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Unless your in the 1%, the world has become a wild and chaotic place. Men are seeking control. The Patriarchy provides a strong system of control, so, it's no surprise that men are turning to it.
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Kirsty Hermiston
Where are these Men when the babies are born? Regardless of how the woman got pregnant. her choice to be in the sexual experience or not. They want all these children to be born, but do not support the pregnant woman, pay for the birth process, or take care of the raising of the child. And now they are taking away food stamps and medicare.....WTF America you don't know what you want. shut up and sit down!!!
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Rev Samantha Counihan
anyone thats anti abortion is a pro rapist, i stand with abortion not against it, the fetus isnt alive till it gets three breaths of air, us womens body isnt for men to control
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Bond Wright
Lionheart: Girls are scripted to adore men from the day they were born. Scripted to adapt to them, give over their power to them, see them as the ultimate authority. This came under scrutiny during the 70's by the Women's Liberation Movement. The movement created the 'consciousness raising" groups. Thousands of women went into them and came out knowing how to take back their power. Also, women's studies classes were added to American universities. This also enabled thousand of women to stop giving their power away to men. Those women who never got to have access to these two facilities--are still brainwashed doing what you say. The same process was perpetrated upon Afro-Americans. They were brainwashed systemically: not allowed to read. Also had no power over their own bodies. Taught to admire white people. Taught to hate their own skin and kinky hair. Some of them were able to reject this--Harriet Tubman, Sojourner Truth, Malcolm X, etc. Rather than show contempt for the"stupid" women who worship the male gods--please take a look at the brainwashing. And feel compassion for them.. It is stunning to know that the women of this country hve had the vote only about 100 years! Maybe even try to find a way to help them get free. Lastly, there is a certain feeling/false knowledge out there that "look at those Jews--they are so inferior that they just marched into the gas chambers--what a bunch of morons--they deserved to die- they were so stupid!" Actually. this is Nazi propaganda. A close research project I did--I found it not to be true. Jews fought their enemy. At Treblinka, they completely defeated the Nazi and took over the camp. Yes, some Jews collaborated--but only under threat of torture and death. These systems of one group setting up systems to convince another group they are no good--is simply a tactic to get control of them. A lot of times, it has worked. But not always. Please do see how women have been the victims of this brainwashing to teach them they are inferiors. You will be surprised--it will liberate you, too.
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Walter J. Holbrook
a woman should have a choice over her own body
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Walter J. Holbrook
A woman should have a choice
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Hugh D Spiers
That is a woman’s choice. There should not be any laws dictating abortions. If you are against abortions don’t have one.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
I think the reason for the drift is because those factions that want to preserve and rejuvenate complete male domination are loud, manipulative, and know exactly where to poke a young man's psyche so that he feels that if he does not agree with them he will be mocked and be viewed as unmanly, and then treated like women are treated. So it's a very self-perpetuating virus in our social code.
United States culture has become so obsessed with sex that no relationship can be viewed without sexual undertones anymore. Men cannot have close friends, which means that the only comfort and intimacy they are allowed to experience involves sex, and the only socially acceptable sex that will not result in them being treated like a second class citizen is heterosexual sex. Dirty mindedness has become the norm for religious leaders. Platonic ideals of friendship are interpreted as sexual deliberately, because keeping men isolated from each other makes them easier to manipulate. Lonely men that feel threatened and are hungry for companionship will more readily listen to someone telling them that their misery is someone else's fault...a woman's, for not providing them with the comfort they crave. That makes them incredibly easy to command.
This is all by design.
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Bond Wright
Let's review a few very important realities that get lost most of the time in a male supremacist culture. Women are human beings. Women are not mere incubators. A woman has an identity. Has a heart. Has the capacity to feel pain. Has the capacity to feel existential agony. Has intelligence. Has the ability to build things, fly F16 fighter jets, run whole countries, save a specie like chimpanzees, create medicines that save lives, lead whole nations in spiritual practice, have opinions and profound perspectives on life and much much more. Women are not just incubators. Mindless incubators. Some of you on this list REALLY need to read this and take it in. If the shoe fits--wear it. If it doesn't--then you are already there. To protect the rights of women is to raise the entire specie and prevent any kind of future wars. Out.
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Blake Andrew Tallman
first women have a right to thier own bodies cause it is thier bodies the government or anyone else has no right to tell them what to do with thier bodies just as men dont want to be told that they have to be neutered and they dont have a right to thier bodies if they tell women they dont have a right to thiers so men dont have a right to thier own bodies either
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Bond Wright
I would remind folks that there are dirt poor women in this world that CANNOT carry a wholesome, healthy, successful pregnancy. (They can't afford food). And, that any pregnancy is a total crisis.. I would like to hear/see some compassion and understanding for these women. And a reality check. It isn't like all women just sit around at Starbucks, sipping their favorite latte and "decide" to 'choose" an abortion. This is a projection/propaganda thrown out there by woman-hating men. Anyway, who delivers the sperm that causes all this mayhem, I ask you? I suggest we put male behaviour under the microscope and take a deep look. Way, way too much blame is put on women. By the way, all the 99cents stores have all closed. And, with that closure away went the affordable condoms. And, with that is more pregnancies. And 24/7 ads on TV for Viagra. Hmmmm. Abortion bans, clinic closures, 24/7 Viagra ads. Book censures, etc. Hmmmm. Who does all this mayhem and human misery benefit? Ministers: time to get busy helping your flocks. Out.
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Rev. Denise Ward
To me we all have the right to do with our bodies what we deem necessary for life-saving measures or or things like incest rape or someone feels that they're too young and don't want to go through with it we never know what a person's choice is but whatever decision we make it is our body our choices
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Michael Joseph Cheney
Does a young man who is drafted and have to go to war and fight and die get to scream "My body. My choice? Absolutely not. Women want more than equal privileges, but no responsibility. What they should choose to do is: A. not be a sperm-dumpster B. Failing that Insist on a condom C. Use some type of birth control.
An unbored child is not a tumor nor is it a woman's body. That argument is the argument of an illogical imbecile It's as biologically false as there being more than two genders.
Murdering your child is a poor choice.
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JPrime
Men being drafted (which ended in 1973, btw) was the price of citizenship, like taxes. If you chose to be a citizen, there was the possibility of being drafted. Don’t want to be drafted? Go elsewhere or claim medical exemption. Women don’t want “more than equal” privileges, we want EQUITY. Men can choose to have a procedure that ends the cause of pregnancy (vasectomy) but a woman needs “permission” before she can have the same procedure (tubal ligation). I take offence at your term “sperm-dumpster” as it shows a level of misogyny that is disturbing. Your “solutions” are all on the woman. A woman can take ALL those precautions and STILL end up pregnant. I suggest that since ALL pregnancies are ultimately the result of an irresponsible, malicious or accidental ejaculation, all men should be forced to have a vasectomy at age 13 (or at puberty), to be reversed when he has proven that he is capable to support a family. Since women are being forced to carry unwanted pregnancies and sometimes dying because of them, I think it’s only fair that men do their part to prevent them. Oh and until a fetus can survive on its own inside the mother’s body, it IS technically an “unwanted parasite” (by scientific definition) to those not actively trying to have a family, and life-threatening to the mother if implanted in the wrong place. A person can consent to sex and NOT consent to pregnancy (BOTH partners). Think of it as consenting to enjoy questionable street food but NOT consenting to be infected with tapeworm. One would undoubtedly get medical treatment to remove said tapeworm. It’s no different with a zygote. ESPECIALLY if all precautions were taken. So, do please stop slut-shaming women for doing just that.
Ps: There are more than two SEXES, as well as multiple genders. Sex = genes, gender = social/cultural construct. Humans are not binary, we are bimodal. Do your research.
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Michael Joseph Cheney
Does a young man who is drafted and have to go to war and fight and die get to scream "My body. My choice? Absolutely not. Women want more than equal privileges, but no responsibility. What they should choose to do is: A. not be a sperm-dumpster B. Failing that Insist on a condom C. Use some type of birth control.
An unbored child is not a tumor nor is it a woman's body. That argument is the argument of an illogical imbecile It's as biologically false as there being more than two genders.
Murdering your child is a poor choice.
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Bond Wright
Mr. Cheney: your post is full of self righteous shaming women. Of course young men "get to" scream "my body my choice". Haven't you ever heard of the anti-war movements? Of draft card burnings? Of draft resistence hot lines? Of draft resister counsellors/ministers? Of Quakers? Of Amish? What planet do you live on? " "Women want more than equal privileges, but no responsibililty". WOW. you're hatred is showing. You don't own a uterus, so you know next to nothing about it. Until you do, listen to women. "Murdering your child is a poor choice". Right. It's better to bring the pregnancy into term and watch it (and the woman) die a slow agonizing death (slow murder) from poverty. Fun for all. What is more moral? A slow murder? A quick murder? How about teaching ejaculation/withdrawal in Junior High school for boys? A mandatory class. Making free condoms available in the men's rooms. How about a massive educational campaign to prevent male sperm depositing? Ads on TV 24/7? How about an automatic 1 million dollar checque to women to take the pregnancy to term and rear the result until age 18? At least a state college education--not necessary to go to Harvard. Do you have ANY advice for men? None was present in your post. Mr. Cheney you need to stop shaming women and get busy actually addressing the problem and come up with solutions for our human race. I look forward to hearing what you come up with. Thank you.
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Wayne Sheldon Williams
I think men realize that the "my body, my choice" argument from pro abortionists fails to consider the fact that it's not just her body involved. There is a living child inside her womb whose life it is that will be killed. With the contraceptives available today, there should be very few "surprise" pregnancies. If a woman doesn't want to get pregnant, then her and/or her partner should use these. I realize sometimes things happen quickly and the contraceptives aren't able to be gotten quickly enough. I also realize that there are grey areas on abortion like rape, incest and if the mother's life is in danger carrying the child. In the case of rape and incest, why not let something good happen from something so terrible. Put the child up for adoption. I know a family who adopted a child who is the product of incest. That child is the sweetest child. The adoption family is so blessed to have this child bc they couldn't have any of their own. Yes, if a woman is raped and becomes pregnant, it would be hard for her carrying a reminder of the horrific thing that happened to her. However, why not bring joy to a family out of this terrible thing that happened. Where I see a real problem is when women use abortion as a form of birth control. There's no excuse for this.
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Bond Wright
Mr. Williams: Have you red any of the research reports the Federation of Feminist Women's Health Clinics has done on the things you assert? These people are the brightest, smartest, most dedicated people in this field. You will find that some of your "facts" and "opinions" are wrong and have no solid basis. Your prejudice shines through, however, And, your lack of verifiable information. You can do better and I encourage you to do so... this will not only help you--it will help our entire human race. Thank you.
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Frederick Karl Rollins III
Men vs Women on abortion. I believe most people believe in cases of rape or a legit reason for to save a mother's life are the only acceptable reasons. Most people don't believe in abortion as a birth control reason. Unfortunately, these numbers are misrepresented. Men are told their choice ends when they choose to have unprotected sex. The same standard should apply. Most women who have abortions had the same choice. They fail to understand their mother made a choice as well. It was someone else's life over their own. It's not just a body, It's a life!
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Richard Dixon
Virginity among men and women is a concept that is no longer believed in. Abstinence is showing respect for yourself and God. Waiting until you are married to the person you wish to raise children with and show reference to God by waiting until you are married is not easy. But if you believe in God and the writing of the Bible it is what you have to do to stay in favor with the Lord. Sorry I didn't wait until I was married. I would definitely had a different life. Praying for all of you in regards to the hardship of waiting which is what God wants.
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Kevin Venteicher
woman screaming its my body well no it is not you are making children a living human being if your gonna make love then use protection or wait for right time of month when your not having the time of month where you are ovilating prayers to you all
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Bond Wright
The Nigerian women have an interesting ritual that they perform during delivery. They attach a rope to their partner's testicles and every time they get a particularly bad cramp--they pull on the rope so that their partner is accountable and feels the pain that he caused in contributing to this pregnancy. Spread the word, ladies (smile).
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Steven McCoy
For following the way of Jesus Christ and his teachings of acceptance and kindness [just say everyone has an interesting way of doing the exact opposite... That said: no one has the right to control or dictate another] No means No regardless the situation. Her CHOICE does not effect you; WHY should you be able to effect HER??? I'LL WAIT... REV McCoy (Stay blessed and BE NICE) I promise it really is not that difficult..
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Mary Kristen Haddock
If you are a Christian believer, you know, the one thing we have been given since the Fall of Man, is indeed, Free Will. That means we are free to choose who or what we believe, free to eat what we want, free to do what we feel we need to do. As for women, we should be free to choose when and how we begin our motherhood. Pro choice is a promotion of independence and sometimes, saving future errors. If we can be artificially impregnated, why is securing our futures from unwanted pregnancies an issue? Men are still under the impression, if true rape occurs the trauma should automatically shut down the ovulation process...Wrong! Trauma is not forgotten instantly, nor are the repercussions. I vote Pro-choice because I have lost a baby and knew that I was not even ready to be a mommy. I think making informed, educated decisions is a positive step toward fending off, politics taking personal liberties; such as choice, away. Family planning is being proactive and responsible, having the tools necessary and available is preventing harm to anyone especially women.
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Mary Kristen Haddock
If you are a Christian believer, you know, the one thing we have been given since the Fall of Man, is indeed, Free Will. That means we are free to choose who or what we believe, free to eat what we want, free to do what we feel we need to do. As for women, we should be free to choose when and how we begin our motherhood. Pro choice is a promotion of independence and sometimes, saving future errors. If we can be artificially impregnated, why is securing our futures from unwanted pregnancies an issue? Men are still under the impression, if true rape occurs the trauma should automatically shut down the ovulation process...Wrong! Trauma is not forgotten instantly, nor are the repercussions. I vote Pro-choice because I have lost a baby and knew that I was not even ready to be a mommy. I think making informed, educated decisions is a positive step toward fending off, politics taking personal liberties; such as choice, away. Family planning is being proactive and responsible, having the tools necessary and available is preventing harm to anyone especially women.
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Renee A. LuMaye
We as women depend on men for strength and love, in regards to abortion its a women's body and her choice but abortion should not be used as birth control. We are lucky both men and women are willing to defend our country and I'm thankful for each and everyone of them for their service and for protecting me and my red, white and blue.. Israel and Iran need to stop and we need to pick our battles carefully.. God bless everyone.
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Renee A. LuMaye
We as women depend on men for strength and love, in regards to abortion its a women's body and her choice but abortion should not be used as birth control. We are lucky both men and women are willing to defend our country and I'm thankful for each and everyone of them for their service and for protecting me and my red, white and blue.. Israel and Iran need to stop and we need to pick our battles carefully.. God bless everyone.
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Warren Calvin Wall
Women really believe that they have natural rights.
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Patricia Ann Gross
Are you saying they don't?
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
What's really sickening, in my view, is how many are trying to use religion as a way to force THEIR view on people's bodies. This has never been about "protecting" anyone. They claim about "protecting children" and "protecting women" but that's a farce. And any intelligent, HONEST, person knows it.
This is, and always has been, 100% about CONTROL. They use religion as an excuse, especially white, american, MALES are using it as an excuse, to try to force control over women. What they're allowed to wear, where they're allowed to go, if they want to have children or not, etc.
And they want the right to both physically, and mentally, abuse women with impunity, and put those that try to defend themselves in prison. Many states with restrictive bans already are putting women into prison with Felonies for miscarrying. And some are trying to make miscarriages punishable by the Death Penalty.
Yeah this isn't about right to life, and isn't about "Spirituality". Those are just excuses they use. This is ALL about brutality and control, period.
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Deborah Jean Howard
I believe it’s a woman’s choice. It is not a religious choice nor is it a government choice. If men are against a woman’s choice to choose what she wants to do with her body. It’s because men want to have control 24 seven. Men think they Are smarter than women and no more than women. Women are not smart. But most women outsmart any man around. It should be up to the individual choice no one else else’s.
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Donche Andonov
Life begins at conception. If a woman doesn’t want a baby then she should use birth control. Funny how if they want a baby then it’s a baby if not it’s just a fetus…
Rape and incest is such a small percentage of pregnancies. But it’s not the babies fault and it has a right to life and that woman or young lady should be well taken care of after the birth and a good home for the baby should be provided.
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Lisa Tate
My anatomy is not government property. These laws are about control, pure and simple. I will never assume to know another woman’s life or situation. I am the mother of two chosen children. How different would their lives be if my children were imposed upon me? Though, of course some do, children should not feel unwanted by their parents ever. We should choose motherhood when we are ready and with whoever we choose. These young men may see the power this way of thinking has on women’s lives. Misogyny may be a driving factor leading them to the church. Watch yourselves. My bodily autonomy is yours as well. Trying to cease this is a slippery slope.
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Leroy Charles Marville III
For we Americans disapprove or approve now we have numerous issues, opinions, for how our country should be governed. Once again I will say - my opinion democrats ignores history and truth. We are the party that supports human dignity and we find purpose in dignity and our work. It's good for the Individuals involved. It's good for their community. It's good for society at large for we Americans citizens can live free.
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Leroy Charles Marville III
I'm a republican for a long time now in my mind and my heart. " A society's worth isn't measured by much power is seized by its government but rather, how much power is reserved for its people. "
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James Lowell Rasco
What disturbs me is people come up with all of these reason to have abortions. Rape incest etc. as well as claiming its their body, Therefore there right. My reproduction rights. I am unsure of statistics but I would guess that the majority of people that have abortions are using the procedure as a method of birth control. Who gives us the right to determine whether an unborn child lives or dies? One of my dearest friends was born without a father in the house. What some would call an unwanted/unplanned pregnancy. Thankfully the mother chose to have the child and her mother's parents agreed to help raise her. I shutter to think what would have happened had her mother decided to get rid of the unwanted pregnancy. I would have met this beautiful kind person.
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Patricia Ann Gross
Says someone who has never been through the exhausting and emotional process of having to decide, or counseled someone who is. Most birth control methods, with the exception of removal of reproductive organs, and abstinance) have failure rates. Even vasectomies and tubal ligations. The birth control pill becomes ineffective if a woman is put on antibiotics, but I have yet to be counseled by a doctor to that fact when being prescribed antibiotics. Condoms break and leak. Unwanted pregnancies happen every day, even with solid birth control methods. If women start choosing not to have sex unless they are wanting to get pregnant two things might happen. 1) Men would quickly change their minds about abortion and birth control -or- 2) The numbers of rapes would go up significantly.
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John Clifford Acomb
There is no such thing as an "abortion right." I see this as an issue governed by the sixth commandment, which states "Thou Shalt not kill." Deliberate killing of healthy babies should never be an option.
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Bond Wright
Acomb: Tell all the men to check their (s--pe-rm) at the door, then. That will cure everything. PS. I don't think a single woman in this world has EVER wanted to kill a healthy baby.
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Timothy Alan Gress
Christian Males are overstepping their rights and boundaries yet again I see! The woman’s right to carry or not carry that fetus is her right and choice and hers alone. The macho uber masculine Christian Male society is way over cliche and overdone and we need to get away from that trash and get back to universal compassion understanding and common sense. I am so Sick of seeing the current trend to be to return to controlling and denigrating women and trying to control them and make them “know their place”. We are supposed to be beyond this as a cultured and enlightened society but sadly that doesn’t seem to be the case these days!
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Bond Wright
thank you Mr. Gress; so refreshing!
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Roy S. Thorpe
God gave us all a soul and free will. Each person controls their destiny. Women don't need men or government to control that She has to answer to God for her choices.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
Pure animal instinct, covered up neatly with adopted beliefs so as to deny giving in to the inner beast.
Male animals have a built-in drive to perpetuate their genes. Male social animals have a territorial drive that includes any fertile females on their turf. That means they seek to control the females, either through offering them better support than other males, appearing more attractive than other males, fighting other males, or physically restraining the females from leaving.
Male humans seek control over women instinctively. Those that are intellectually and emotionally strong enough to fight this impulse recognize it in others. Those who aren't strong enough just forgive in to it. Some seek to control women physically, through violence or threats. Some do their best to try to embody what they think women want. And some make laws controlling women, or support those laws, because that offers a solution that can be enforced without any personal effort.
Abortion laws are the exertion of the beastly nature of men, having won out over the enlightened and civilized man.
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Harvey Zeller
Belief in a God has been self destructive to human growth.
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Jack Anthony Wilson
I do support a woman’s right to decide not to keep a pregnancy, I also believe that women need to be more responsible and do everything possible to protect themselves from getting pregnant. It’s too easy to abort a pregnancy and it should be the last option.
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Brien
Forcing anyone to do anything they don't want to is slavery. No matter what, that is the bottom line. We have different labels for different things, but bottom line it is forced slavery. Again, zealots insist that everyone believe in their mythical man made construct every time someone takes a stand. Man's involvement in the reproductive cycle is simple, he is the sperm donor. That's it. The entire build process happens inside the woman. So, while the man can ask for a baby, there is NO obligation on the woman's part to build this child with this man. I know many women who opted for sperm donation because they DON'T want a man in their lives. Enough with the mythical god thing, men need to stay out of this debate.
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David Douglas Winters
Forcing people to refrain from murder is not slavery. You got it upside down and backwards.
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Bond Wright
Winters: I plan to challenge your "murder" concept. In the next few days. This accusation of "murder" is not the end- all and be- all that people like you think it is. I have become very bored with the self--righteousness and holier- than- thou attitude people like you (uterus- less people) have. Look for my comments. Rev. Bond Wright
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Ambrea Lynn English
If anyone were to look at any study, you would see that the most sited reason for having an abortion is that they could not afford to have a baby.
If you want people to carry to term, make it safe and financially feasible to do so. This is not a unique trait to Humans either. If it is not safe to reproduce why would we?
The national abortion rates were on a decline until recently. The number of abortions occurring in the U.S. in 2020 was 40% lower than it was in 1991.
I wonder what happened between now and then that made it unsafe to have children?
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Ari Joseph Bertine
I think the younger generations have seen that the American Dream is a scam, and know they will never own a home in this economy. They have given up hope due to the unbridled power given to corporations now to cater to the wealthy and screw those who are not.
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Bond Wright
I would proffer that the younger generation better learn the history of our country. And, get acquainted with the changing zeitgeists. So that they do not throw away what has been great about our people and our country. So that they take valuable lessons from the information there--and put that information into their vision and their action. The American Dream was real and millions of people benefited from this vision: the middle class was created. For example, a semester at UCLA cost $60.00 a semester to attend. Let that sink in. Now the costs are in the thousands. The American Dream, is not a "scam". But a Roosevelt vision that he implemented. Now is another story. This "dream" has had many enemies in the last decade. But, hark! to remember what was once-- is to never lose it. The younger generation is bitter. YES. Speak bitterness. And, and take your bitterness and create something new and better now. Make revolution. You are standing on the shoulders of others who have done so. Find them. Listen to them. Follow them. Add your own young brilliance to it. When once asked by a person to Nelson Mandela: How do you expect to erase such a racist system from such a large country? He said: How do you eat an elephant? One piece at a time. Out.
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JT Sunrise
🔥 THE GOSPEL OF CONSENT: A PROPHETIC RESPONSE TO THE RECORD‑HIGH GENDER GAP ON ABORTION
✝️ By Rev JTSUNRISE, Interfaith Minister, Celestial Nexus Church
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- The Crisis at Hand
A new Gallup‑described poll shows the widest men‑vs‑women gap on abortion rights in 30 years: 61 % of women identify as pro‑choice vs. just 41 % of men, a 20‑point divergence unseen since before 1998. Women are also more inclined to call abortion morally acceptable and legal than men.
This shift began after the Dobbs ruling in 2022, which overturned Roe v. Wade. Since then, women have grown distinctly more pro‑choice, while men—especially younger conservative men—have realigned with anti‑abortion doctrines, often tied to rising religiosity.
If we are to speak truth in a time of profound division, we must root ourselves not in politics, but in the Way of Jesus—the way of consent, resistance to domination, and embodied love.
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- The Way of Jesus: Our Unchanging Model
Jesus showed us how a Christian must live, not through slogans or statecraft, but in the flesh: 1. He refused power. Offered all kingdoms, He answered, “Away with you” (Matt 4:8–10). 2. He embraced the marginalized. He healed sinners, lepers, and tax collectors—without judgment. 3. He protected women. In the story of the woman caught in adultery, He silenced the mob by saying, “Let anyone among you who is without sin cast the first stone.” (John 8:7). 4. He condemned hypocrisy. He called the religious elite “whitewashed tombs” (Matt 23:27–28). 5. He rejected force. When Peter drew a sword in Gethsemane He rebuked him: “All who live by the sword, die by the sword.” (Matt 26:52). 6. He called individuals, not societies, to repent. He sought inward transformation, not external conformity (Luke 11:39). 7. He elevated the poor, not the powerful. “Blessed are the poor … woe to the rich” (Luke 6:20–24). 8. He warned of deception. “Beware of wolves in sheep’s clothing.” (Matt 7:15).
➡️ If your Christianity wields law against wombs or decries mercy while venerating empire—know this: you are not following Jesus.
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- The Gender‑Gap as a House of Mirrors
Men returning to church in droves—and turning increasingly anti‑abortion—marks either genuine revival or a return to control cloaked in faith . But when religion shifts from compassion to coercion, it becomes Satanic deception—the lawless one masquerading as divine.
2 Thessalonians 2:3–4 warns us:
“The mystery of lawlessness is already at work… he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.”
Look at today’s laws: men who’ve never carried a burden legislate lifelong bondage onto women. That is not holiness. That is idolatry.
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- Interfaith & Universal Witness
Across spiritual traditions—from Christian to Wiccan to Buddhist—the sacred truth is unanimous: agency and consent are holy. To strip another of choice is original sin.
The “Lawless One” advances not with horns and flames, but through legalism masquerading as morality.
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- A Call to Righteous Resistance
To those hearing this: • Speak truth to power, not laws to wombs. • Stand with the vulnerable, not with those who write chains. • Align with the way of Jesus, not the way of empire.
Let the poll be a wake-up call. Let it remind us: our witness must be rooted in radical love, not coercion. Our mission must be to dismantle every throne built on forced submission.
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- Final Exhortation • We do not worship law that kills agency. • We preach mercy to the oppressed. • We pray with voices loud enough to sweep away every altar of domination.
I am Rev JTSUNRISE, a messenger.
Choice is sacred. Mercy is divine. Legislation without love is demonic.
Follow the Way—not the Lawless One. Live as Jesus lived, with arms open toward the wounded.
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Timothy Alan Gress
I love this!! THIS is the true spirit of Christ! Help elevate our fellow brothers and sisters rather than push them down, shackle them and enslavement them! Approach everything from a stance of love and understanding rather than judgment and opposition! You my friend follow the way of Christ correctly! God Bless You!!
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David Douglas Winters
Life ain’t fair. God ain’t equitable. Right to life takes trumps agency.
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Patricia Ann Gross
JT, Thank you for a well-thought out way to approach the topic. I really like the way you think, and believe you are spot on in you outline.
I have personally counseled several young women with unwanted pregnancies, and live in a state where it is still allowed up to viabiliity of the fetus unless the woman or child's life(ves) are in danger. I lead them through their own beliefs, gave them support and genuinely supported whatever decision they made. Each made different decisions, some to keep the pregnancy and baby after getting help and support for the family. Some had the child and it was eventually taken by CPS because they couldn't take care of it, or they had an addiction relapse. Others chose adoption, some open, some closed. A few chose to end the pregnancy because the disruption to their life was more than they could bear. Each decision was difficult, and I am convinced that few, if any, walk into a clinic for an abortion as a method of birth control.
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Rebecca L Tice
OK... little children... let me tell you what it was like for me. I am Pro-life. I used to be raving Anti-abortion. I married a man, then came home one day to find him in bed with another man. I went to my pastor and he quoted the "you might be the way to his salvation... you have to stay". I stayed and he graced me with two children without much of a problem. Then when I got pregnant with my third child he beat because I would not agree to have an abortion. Two are enough he said... you've had you fun he said. Then once my son [yep a son] he beat me again because my son had red hair so it couldn't be his. It was his baby. Of course he didn't know my grandfather and my aunt are redheads [we're Irish]. I tried to leave him... but the church said stay.
Finally, after we moved and I started attending another church, the preacher showed me the Book of Jude. Jude says if you are married to a man who will interfere with your salvation... you can leave.
I started to save up money to go, with the kids, but before I could get anything put away, he beat me again. He tried to throw me out of the car going down Intersate 4.
I left with my three children that night. Now... the oldest child is studying to be a lawyer. The second child teaches sign language and helps the deaf. My son... well Social Services said I wasn't financially capable of raising three kids on my own and they took them from me. The church would not help me. They said I should not have left him. My dad stepped up to help. My daughters went to my ex- before I could stop the process. My son was raised by my dad, a good church going man, a deacon and Sunday School teacher. My mom told my son I didn't want him... so he wouldn't miss me too much. I promissed my mom and dad... I made an oath... not to tell him the truth about why he was raised by my dad. My son is a sign maker... he works with neon. He and his wife have five children... and it's a great marriage. He goes to church regularly.
My second oldest granddaughter is gay. She never knew her grandfather... it's just who she is. My oldest granddaughter says she is bi. She never knew her great grandfather... and she was raised in the church.
My children were raised in the church until they were taken.
I'm telling you... I refused to have an abortion. I had to leave an abusive marriage... I had to wait for the church to give me permission... and then the government told me I was too poor to raise my babies.
Now... You just can't be anti-abortion or pro-life..... You have to be pro-children!!!!
I'm sure you will rebut me... but I'm 75 now and I have seen more than I wish I had.
Jesus is my Messiah...
Jesus love children...
TIA
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obere mchugh
I am a 100% firm believer in the right of women and that which they do, as womens body are there own and any and all decisons are 100% there own. no need for outside confirmation or help needed.
As a Traditionalist Witch-priest, i wholly belive in the autonomy and sacredness to women, as such there body is there own and any and all decisions about it are wholly up too them. if they seek advice or want input thats one thing, but ultimatley the decision is there own to do that which is right for them in any and all situations. plain and simple, all human beings are autonomious and have the fundemental right of free will and free choice. i would never impose a situation upon a women as such feel no right to tell a women what to do or not.
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Bond Wright
Merry Meet McHugh: Thanks for your comment. Great to see it. I have one constructive suggestion for you: The word "there" refers to a place. The word "their" refers to a person or persons: For example: "as such, their (a person) body is their (a person) own and any and all decisions about it are wholly up to them. This is meant as a helpful suggestion and not a put down. Merry part.
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William Tomasso
That's true but you were bought with a great price God's only Son that we might be saved. That means we belong to Our Savior Jesus Christ because He and Our Heavenly Father loves us very much.
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Bond Wright
Tomasso: Right. That's YOUR religion. And it is not the religion of billions of other people in this world. Take note.
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Neil Francis Corrado
It s about control , and the “ women should obey “ nonsense . Toxic masculinity can be very appealing to young men , Because they are searching for their identities, and this plays right into their thinking . The older guys are just grasping for control .
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Bond Wright
Corrado: Exactly.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
What is wrong with sending a fetus back to god, jesus, the holy spirit before it’s born? Or do you believe the fetus goes to hell?
I am pro-choice so that you can choose to say “no” or “yes” to abortion.
Adoption is simply legal human trafficking. Those who are infertile should accept that was god’s wish for them. No one owes anyone a baby.
Because god possesses omniscience he already knows the outcome of everything so he knows who will and will not abort.
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Patricia Ann Gross
"Adoption is simply legal human trafficking." Are you kidding me? Try telling that to my sister who adopted two because she was unable to bear children herself. Two babies who were not planned nor wanted. One from a teenage mother in foster care, another from a couple who did not plan to have any children of their own. Both due to failed birth control methods. These two children had a loving supportive family, rather than living in poverty and resentment for having been born in their cirumstances.
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JT of the plains
Every pregnancy starts with the deposit of semen. How about a law regulating the depositing of semen. "Irresponsible depositing of semen will result in a $10,000 fine and 1 year imprisonment. Repeat offenders will be subject to mandatory sterilization as well as a 5 year prison sentence."
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Bond Wright
JT Of the plains: You are on the right tack. Men can put a stop to all of this on-going misery by practicing coitus interruptus--or more clearly--pull aside. Sex education for boys just post puberty in Jr. high schools should be a mandatory class. And, you can't graduate unless you do it. Young boys, mostly haven't been brainwashed yet and have a fair conscience. They will see the justice of this and want to take responsibility for their sp--erm and not deposit it until they want to be fathers. In so doing, they can follow the natural course of the joy of the erotic and when they are able and ready--create joyful children. All benefit.
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JT of the plains
It follows the upturn in patriarchy. If people are genuinely pro-life, they would support contraception which helps prevent unplanned pregnancies, and thus lowers abortion rates. But sadly, almost no pro-life groups actually support contraception, and many are hostile to it. That proves the question is more about controlling women than it is about reducing abortions.
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Keith David Harry
Unless you have ovaries, you should STFU and let no one but women promulgate abortion rights or lack there of. A question I have to those who wish to deny an abortion, 1) Do you adopt ? 2) Do you foster parent? 3) Do you work to offer counseling on alternatives and birth control. 4) Do you off sanctuary to young in wed mothers who require assistance. 5) Do you donate financial assistance to support these so called unwanted children. Yeah , that’s what I thought. Easy to shoot your mouth off when you offer zero in return.
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Bond Wright
Keith: your level of consciousness is refreshing. Thanks.
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Timothy Drake
Good morning,
God is not pleased. He gave us ten commandments. Many have fallen away. There are 10, not 9, not 8. Thou shalt not murder is number 6.
Abortion is not cutting out the mother's organ. It is murdering a baby. The mother is not being mutilated to death, but the infant inside of her. It is not a mother's right or father's right to murder the infant. God bless you all in Jesus' Holy Name!
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Elizabeth Susan Cosgrove
Your G-d, I ass-u-me is the G-d of the Abrahamic triad? Funny the youngest and oldest members of the triad are of one voice: the woman's life is paramount, and it is her decision. It is just the problematic middle child that is conflicted over abortion. But back to your argument: an abortion is murder, if so, your g-d is the biggest abortionist there is. 40-60% of fertilized eggs do not become live and in the world babies. Of those that near full term, far too many pregnancies kill or severely injure the person carrying it. For the risks alone, abortion must remain legal.
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Roderick Durand
I believe that no one has a right to tell a woman what to do with her body and it every one's world no just a man
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Jacquelyn Kendall
Preservation of the patriarchy and subjugation of women are the motivators The end..
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Keith Ramsey
Until recently, I wouldn't have agreed, but I recent read some information that changed that. The changes in the 1950s, 60s, and 70s... things that happened mostly before I was born, or right after.
I think some people want us to return to the time where women were just considered property.
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Patricia Ann Gross
That is exactly what she said, just with slightly different words.
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John T. Watson
Those who support abortion are and who follow the mantra, "My Body My Life". are not considering the life they carry and is about to be destroyed. Today there are many ways to prevent a pregnancy before having sex. They should think and prepare before having sex with a partner. I know there are those that use the argument about rape and incest to bolster their stance on widespread abortion but if that is really all they have then their argument is weak because that type of pregnancy is a very small percentage of all aborted pregnancies. Those that support abortion should remember that their mothers chose life for them and now they want to choose death for their own child. The sad part in this argument is that the child has no say in this abortion argument those supporting abortion are playing God and deciding to destroy what the only true God has allowed to be created.
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Keith Ramsey
When you are able to carry and birth the baby, then you'd have a better argument.
You are trying to play God yourself.
The honest part of this argument is the until it is born it is not a child.
Where your argument falls apart is that you think that there MUST be a God, when that isn't a known fact. It is speculation. But even the Bible mentions abortion...
"My body, my life" is very accurate. You just don't like that a woman wants to have her own rights.
People making the argument that you do, well some of them seem to want to take us back to the 1950s or 1960s, where women had no rights at all, and were treated like property in many parts of the country.
It wasn't until the 1970s, that the first state passed a law that said a husband was not allowed to rape the wife. Before that, it was the belief that the woman had no choice and had to do EVERYTHING the husband said.
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Bond Wright
Right on, Keith. Rev. Bond
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Patricia Ann Gross
John, While I wouldn't (in most cases anyway) choose an abortion for myself, I am an avid supporter of a woman's right to choose. Not every conception is a "choice" by either or both parties. Every attempt at birth control has a failure rate, with the exception of removal of the sex organ(s) including the uterus and abstinence (which if you are a Bible literalist has had one documented failure).
I had to have a medically induced abortion, because a miscarriage (no heartbeat, nothing resembling a fetus on the sonogram except the placenta and other "articles of conception) and wouldn't spontaneously expel/abort. Today I would be denied that procedure because it was my 12th week, which is beyond where many states with abortion allowances cut off. The backlash and restricions being placed on healthcare that is such that the collateral damage from these legislations are not only killing women, but making many of them infertile, or disabling them in other ways. Even "second chance" or "abortion pill" medications are outlawed in some cases, which can be taken in the cases of unwanted, assault, or coerced sex before the woman has a positive pregnancy test.
I have counseled many young women who are in a position that is horrible for her an the unborn fetus in the days before the overturn of Roe v Wade, and some chose adoption, some chose to keep the child, and some had abortions. I fully supported every decision they made, because 1) it was NEVER easy, 2) it was always done after a lengthy decision process, and 3) it was her choice, and she determined that no matter what, she could live with it.
If you don't want to father a child, I suggest you stay celebate. Even vasectomies have a failure rate.
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Patricia Sydney Solis
The real issue here is men working against their own souls. Read Scholar Riane Eisler’s work about a dominator system vs a partnership system. Men aren’t allowed to feel. Their anima, the feminine in man, is to be actualised and integrated. But Men get sucked into these dysfunctional myths where power dominates and demonise their feminine side and turn it into an anima projection. And what happens if you refuse an archetype? It turns destructive. Evangelical Christian nationalists are nothing but a suicidal death cult. Trying to bring out an actual Armageddon as a self-fulfilment prophecy. You really gotta feel sorry for men they’re unable to feel, unable to step into their full humanity of being in a loving, tender sensual relationship with women or anyone. There is no life-giving Eros, there is only the death bringing Thanatos. Remember that Republican whose Christmas card came out with his family not embracing each other, but each holding a shotgun? That is a family Who cannot feel. Who cannot relate to anything but cold machinery because their hearts are frozen, their bodies vacant of soul. I think this is what Christ was talking about when leaders lead people to Gehenna. They are the worst of all.
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Charisse Tenewitz
1,000,000% !!!!!!
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Steven Leroy Molburg
What a crock. Please think for yourself.
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Keith Ramsey
That is thinking for yourself. They are presenting the data, you just don't like the conclusion. They have some good points.
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Steven Leroy Molburg
What data? I see a writing from a “scholar “ who presents an interesting theory but what facts back this theory? Yes, I am conservative in my thoughts and I am a follower of Jesus Christ but I am certainly not trying to create Armageddon nor do I have a problem showing love and kindness. I can take facts for what they are but this is an oversimplified theory that classifies all men into the same box. Perhaps we should all stop being keyboard warriors and actually experience people for ourselves.
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Bond Wright
Ms. Solis: Thank you for this fine analysis.
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James Riggle-Johnson
If men are going to decide whether a woman has to carry a pregnancy, then it’s only fair they help raise the child too, right? I say every man who votes to restrict abortion should be automatically enrolled in a program that deducts 5% of his income to support the children he insists must be born. You want the baby? Great—start paying for it.
And while we’re at it, let’s talk about that child. The one who grows up in a home where they were never wanted in the first place. Maybe we could also assign these lawmakers and “pro-life” advocates to handle the therapy bills when that kid grows up struggling with self-worth, abandonment, or worse. But hey, at least they were born, right?
It’s funny how quickly the “protect life” crowd vanishes the second that life needs food, shelter, education, or emotional support. This has never been about life. It’s about control—mainly men controlling women, wrapped in a Bible verse and a campaign slogan. “Pro-Life… Until Birth!”
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Charisse Tenewitz
100%
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Charisse Tenewitz
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Charisse Tenewitz
Comment removed by user.
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Bond Wright
James: Thank you--you got it down solid. Rev. Bond
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
A fetus is a child from the moment of conception according to conservatives. So, child should start as soon as the pregnancy's detected, and with retro-active payments going back to conception.
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Donald J Rothschild Jr
Unless you want to support a child from birth to age 21 (forget that 18 y/o mark, include college) then shut your mouth. It’s a woman’s body and she has control over it. As for the rise in young men going to religion, it’s only temporary. Once they realize the trap conservatives and evangelicals are, the faster they will reverse course.
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Nicholas J Page
I'm not getting involved l hate the. A word but it's a woman's body her choice
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Benton Wade Standard
Some people overlook the fact that there are those who are opposed to abortion for ethical reasons but support it's legality.
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Reverend Paula Copp
Let the men be chemically castrated until he’s sufficiently mature and stable enough to father children… then we can talk about whether women should have access to abortions. Few pregnancies would end in abortion if only those who WANTED children were able to get pregnant. Perhaps child support beginning at conception would work…
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ServantOfJudgement
Agreed, the woman can pay rent for housing the man's bioelectric life force. Once she expels the mans bioelectric life force in working condition she can stop paying rent and give the man his property back.
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Keith Ramsey
Just what?
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Colleen McAllister
I imagine that most of the men who have changed their opinions are of the MAGA group. tRump and his followers seem to feel so emasculated that they need more ways to puff up their egos by making women subservient as they were in the 50s. Well they are in for a fight. Women are not going back. We will get our reproductive rights back. We will get tRump out of office.
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Benton Wade Standard
They need to fight harder then because the states that aren't blue are getting more fervid in implementing their fundamentalist pro Zionist views into law.
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Bond Wright
Ms.McAllister: Right on.
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Bond Wright
McAllister: Right on.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
When the Christian God performs an abortion, it’s called a “miscarriage” — so in my Secular Humanist Pantheist” denomination of the Universal Life Church, we advocate calling abortions, miscarriages which would then have the support of all Christians, because if their God routinely causes miscarriages, there’s no reason why all other Gods can’t do so as the circumstances necessitate.
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SueW
I like the way you think!
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Patricia Ann Gross
Unfortunately, the medical term for miscarriage is "abortion." When I miscarried, they did a D and C because I wouldn't "spontaneously abort." I hate to think what would have happened to me if they did not do that. I gave birth to a healthy baby girl one years and 13 days after that procedure. If it happened today in Texas (where I was then), my insides may have rotted before they could do any procedure, and if I survived, may have never been able to have another child.
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Benton Wade Standard
So if it's the Lord's will and he wants that soul of that baby in heaven with him it's okay for him to either do it or allow it to happen but not when a person does. 😂
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ServantOfJudgement
Naw billy, you're applying your paper based wisdom over a wisdom you know nothing of. Your paper based wisdom is just that. It disappears when the paper does.
Alcohol, heroin, cocaine, man made diseases like covid, mutated genes from chemically altered foods by geniuses with doctorates, genetically altered foods made by geniuses with doctorates, intentional poisoning of the population by genius elites that thing the world is over populated, bogus vaccines, untested medications produced by geniuses with doctorates, illegal aliens beating up women for their ring, on and on and on and on.
Sometimes the baby just dies just because. God doesn't want our babies to die, we sure do though. We chop'em out by the millions for the elite don't we. Too many people they say.
Start in Genesis and pray for understanding.
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Patricia Ann Gross
SOJ, I was born in the 1950s during a pandemic (the biblical term would be plague) of Polio. Geniuses with doctorates found a way to stop it utilizing a vaccine. I had a child in 1980 who had severe asthma that rapidly progressed to pneumonia any time he had a fever. Because of this, and at the advice of my doctor, he got a flu vaccine after four years of 3-4 hospital stays with pneumonia every year. Geniuses with doctorates did that too. In second grade, I had all the diseases now covered by the MMR vaccine, and probably infected many of my classmates. I missed about a month of school that year. I profoundly appreciate the geniuses with doctorates that my children didn't have to go through that.
If you've never personally been pregnant with a child that wasn't expected or you couldn't afford, don't pretend to know what a person who is in that circumstance is going through. The government wants all these babies to be born (even after the mother dies, as happened recently in Atlanta),, but nobody wants to help take care of the babies after they are born when the mother/family cannot afford it.
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Keith Ramsey
Some day, you will understand.
Who says that COVID was man made? There are plenty of people speculating this. I see what you did there, though. You want to blame "illegals" for things with no basis in reality.
Your entire second paragraph is all speculation and propaganda that we hear from the far right.
Then you make the claim that babies are being chopped up, which is completely untrue. You attempt to push the lie that all abortions are like that, when in truth, most of them are just a pill.
The real question is why do people keep pushing these lies and the propaganda.
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Dana Abbott
In point of fact, in an early second trimester miscarriage the fetus comes out whole not chopped. (In my case pulled out by a very sad OB/GYN. I got testing results back days later that 'he' had spina bifida like defects.) It's sad that a natural outcome like this would now be considered an abortion in many states. So yes, sometimes the baby just dies just because. I might have died if the hospital was prohibited from removing my placenta afterwards - unfortunately, hospitals in many states are now prohibited from such care.
As for the stealing rings comment.- the only person I met (or even heard about) that was involved with attacking someone for their ring was a white American citizen. He came across a person who died in a car accident, and cut off the deceased man's finger to steal a gold ring. (A second strike felony for him. A respected businessman. In three strike California.) I've lived in states with large immigrant populations (illegal or otherwise), was around them regularly in my work, and have never been threatened or assaulted by an immigrant. I've just been threatened or assaulted by Citizens (many of whom were convicted felons as I think back on it). I've not personally known of any woman who has been endangered by immigrants as you assert.
You imply you are pro-life. How can the increased fetal and maternal death rates following the overturning of Roe fit into this view? Criminal penalties in these new anti-abortion laws are causing medical practitioners to leave states with these laws, and facilities to close down pregnancy clinics and hospitals.The resulting lack of normal care during possible miscarriages (even available in 3rd world countries), during pregnancy, and in delivery services is causing the loss of desired children and deaths of mothers.
Many people believe misinformation from all sorts of sources. That's why I wanted to respond with what I have actually experienced. I have had 3 miscarriages, 2 of which required emergency medical care to make sure I lived. I have suffered threats and abuse, but not from immigrants. Due to misinformation we have lost many family members who - contrary to their professed Christian beliefs- now believe in violence (and are armed), even saying hateful things about their own mixed race family members/grandchildren.
A final comment - abortion is left up to the woman in most of the world's religions. Looks to me like you are addressing other Christians in your post. Many people here on this forum are not your type of Christian, or follow or adhere to other religious traditions. I understand anger, but it does little to convince anyone. I am not Chrisitian, but I personally appreciate Christ's teaching to 'love one another'. May you find Christ's love and peace.
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Rev. Carol M Anaski-Figurski
Interesting article, I don't think its accurate. Men are prolife until they have to pay for 18 yrs of it. Especially if you get your girlfriend knock up & you don't want to marry her. I thought the article was bias & women of faith have had pro choice stances on abortion. If men wanted to have all these babies why aren't they standing in line at the sperm donor bank, why are the orphanages empty. Blest Be.
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Robert Gagnon
Women should have complete autonomy in this decision. It would be considerate but not necessary to include the man in the decision. And he should never have a veto vote in the matter. Men can just walk away with little or no regret, but women are forever attached biologically and emotionally to the life they create. Abortion is rarely taken lightly as some seem to assume.
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ServantOfJudgement
Perhaps you speak for yourself?
Men don't think like you do.
A boy behaves the way you describe. Men don't and won't do that. Men want their babies and trust me, a man's baby is every bit his as it is his woman's baby.
I saw some bimbo on a news program pop an abortion pill live. The thing seemed to take it as lightly as the bimbo host did.
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Robert Gagnon
Seen a woman pro lifer years ago say she had 13 abortions and that no other woman should ever have to live with that. But she had a choice she wanted to take away from others. if your theory of men and boys holds true, there are few men in the world. I am a father and will always be one, but many don't view it that way. Some women are lousy mothers, but it is not a contest. I believe women have the right to end a pregnancy, if they don't want the baby it will be born unwanted and a child needs a mother. Old wise saying "You can have any father, but only one mother".
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Keith Ramsey
Except we have, over the years, millions of examples where they do think like that.
But, as always, you are closed minded on the subject, and want to control what others do.
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Timothy Alan Gress
People who live in glass houses Mr “Judgement”
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Rev. BH
SoJ, "Men want their babies". Yes, the ones they produce. But not some rapist's. Do you want your wife to carry the child of some neighbor, relative, derelict or thug? Can she then hand it to you then leave?
"Men want their babies" - if you have no woman, how many have you adopted?
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Benton Wade Standard
They feel so uncomfortable when they're asked such questions.
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Bond Wright
SOJ: Stop calling women "bimbos". This is sexist. Stop.
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Ronaldo
Men cannot "just walk away", because a woman can take him to court and force him to pay for a child he didn't want and may not even be aware of for years after the birth. If the laws were changed so that any child born out of wedlock was solely the responsibility of the woman unless she assigns rights to the father and he accepts them, it would be a different matter, and would likely end the concept of "gold digger". Today, if a man wants a child, and the woman does not, he cannot prevent her from aborting it. That is not fair to him.
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Robert Gagnon
If a man wants a kid so bad and his mate does not he can get another partner or use a surrogate. They made the support federal because so many fathers left the state to avoid their responsibilities both financial and parental. You can always wear a raincoat if you don't like surprises. It is not fair to have a woman carry a child 9 months then hand it over to some guy that may change his mind during that 9 months or a month after playing daddy nursemaid.
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Benton Wade Standard
I would agree with you except for the fact that it's in her body and not his and as such she should have more say in the matter. With that said If a woman wants to give birth to a child and the father of that would be child doesn't want the child he should have the right to relinquish his rights for any and every reason without any financial responsibility. My views on this issue isn't popular with either the men's right types or with feminists because I believe in fairness even if it's not seen as being very friendly or pretty in other's eyes
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Benton Wade Standard
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Bond Wright
Oh wow. The concept of "gold diggers" can be ended when the American political system provides the way for every woman to get a decent paying job/career and has no need of financial support from anyone.
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Robert Gagnon
Women should have complete autonomy in this decision. It would be considerate but not necessary to include the man in the decision. And he should never have a veto vote in the matter. Men can just walk away with little or no regret, but women are forever attached biologically and emotionally to the life they create. Abortion is rarely taken lightly as some seem to assume.
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Benton Wade Standard
And the fundies do tend to assume that it's taken lightly on their part.
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Kevin Patrick Dabbs
Only way abortion should be legal is in the case of Rape., Incest or the babies or mother's health is in danger, and decision between Dr. Mother and Father, Not govt.
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Reverend Paula Copp
When you become a woman, your opinion will count. Until then, stay out of it.
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Alexander Clarke
Man (men) should not have a say in women's health issues.
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Alexander Clarke
Man (men) should not have a say in women's health issues.
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ServantOfJudgement
Naw, men know just as much about the murder of human babies as women do. Besides who really knows what a woman is anyway. Even our most educated scholars and supreme court jesters can't sort it out.
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Rev. BH
You don't know what a woman is? Sad, dude.
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SueW
You redeemed yourself with your last sentence. Government should never be involved in healthcare decisions and this is most assuredly healthcare.
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Keith Ramsey
When you become a woman, able to give birth, then your opinion will matter. Until then, men should stay out of the issue.
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Patricia Ann Gross
Respectively, your two sentences conflict with one another. If it is the doctor, patient/parents and not the government that makes the decision, then it should be legal for anyone to go through the process of such decisions.
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Benton Wade Standard
Yet in hillbilly fundie states like Texas if a woman has an abortion due to being raped she faces jail time.
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Clay Serenbetz
Men shouldn't make policy on women's issues.
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Lionheart
Yes, but try telling that to your male God who loved to make policy decisions for you females, or you go to Hell if you don’t do as you are told. 🤭
Amazingly, females love worshipping it, and his male offspring. 🤷
Thank goodness there’s no demonstrable evidence it’s real 🤗
🦁❤️
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Patricia Ann Gross
LH, the fact is, that the Abrahamic God is a hermaphrodite. Many scriptures describe God as "Wisdom," which is female. The modern translations have inserted the male pronoun (because, you know, pronouns are important) because the scriptures were translated by the midieval religious leaders which were almost exclusively male. It somehow gave them solidarity with the God they worship and supported the notion that the world, family, and religous order should be controlled by men.
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Lionheart
It’s interesting how people love to refer to the “Abrahamic” God, when in fact there is still no archaeological evidence for his existence, much like his God. 🤭
🦁❤️
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Patricia Ann Gross
LH, that is because people consistently apply anthropromorphic features to a spiritual entity. Do you believe in the wind? Have you ever felt the wind blow against your face? You cannot see it, but you can feel it, and it is the spirit of God reaching out and touching your face.
How did we all get here. Depending on how much archaeological information you have, you eventually reach a level where you can't go any further. So, if you believe that the universe was created by a "big bang," who or what lit the fuse? If you can feel the wind, why can't you see it? You can see what it does, but you can't see it. This is the nature of all things spiritual. Belief in something bigger and better than ourselves is called faith. You don't see it, but you know it exists (I believe that is in the Gospel of John somewhere).
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Lionheart
We can not only feel the wind, but put it to good use. It’s a gas of hydrogen and oxygen, and so we can demonstrably put it to good use scientifically. We don’t need faith to prove its reality. There is no evidence to suppose it’s the spirit of a deity, it’s a gas.
The Big Bang is merely a theory derived from the knowledge that everything in space is moving away from a central point that implies there could have been a big bang at some point in time.
Your belief, or claim, that all nature is spiritual is just that, a claim, with no demonstrable evidence to prove that claim. Some people “believe”the world is flat. Does that mean it is?
🦁❤️
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Ann
It's not just a claim, it's experience. Some have experiences and some don't. Just because you haven't experienced something doesn't make it false.
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Lionheart
I am aware that some people have euphoric experiences that they like to call spiritual. People on hallucinogenic drugs have what they like to call spiritual experiences. So I am not discounting the fact that people have experiences. There are various states of euphoria that I am sure many people love to say are spiritual. If I have a euphoric experience telling me that the Mormon faith is the true religion on earth, does that mean to say it is?
🦁❤️
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Patricia Ann Gross
LH, since you obviously have a retort for anything anyone says, I'm going to leave it here. If you choose not to believe in a spiritual realm I respect that. All I ask for is the same respect, since neither one of us can provide archeological evidence that it does or does not exist.
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Lionheart
I totally understand the need for mankind to believe in euphoric experiences as being spiritual. It’s how it has been since mankind believed the sun was a god and didn’t understand what it was. All they knew was that it gave them warmth and light and helped crops to grow and so it was possibly a natural reaction to worship it, and enjoy the feelings that gave them by doing so. Thank you for your comment.
🦁❤️
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Alexander Clarke
The last euphoric moment I had was in the can.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Proof is for historians and scientists. Spirituality is about faith.
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Lionheart
Yes, of course spirituality is all about faith, because that’s all religionists have to go on. That’s why there are so many religions throughout the world, which I understand to be in the region of about 3000, with almost as many gods that mankind has created, using faith.
🦁❤️
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Benton Wade Standard
😂
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Benton Wade Standard
Yep. Likewise men shouldn't be required to serve in the military during a time of war since women don't have to. It's a shame most people don't care about any of these double standards.
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James Trenton Smith
I understand your point, and in some cases is exactly the right thing to expect. However, this is not exclusively a woman's issue. This is a human rights issue...for women, men, and baby. There is no "one-size-fits-all" solution. Are there no instances, regarding pregnancy, where it is a man's issue as well? Are not men a contributing factor to pregnancy?
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Elizabeth Susan Cosgrove
When the man risks as much as a woman does when pregnant, then he gets an equal say. I suspect the "pro forced birth" uptick with in the male demographic has many of the same roots as the male loneliness epidemic: Young women are discovering that most men their age are not worth the trouble. Women are earning their own money, buying their own stuff, taking their own vacations, and making their own friends. Once upon a time there was a term: "baby trapping". When I first encountered the term, it was the women doing that to men. I think now men are trying to flip the script.
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Dawn
Agreed. Especially of that pregnancy was from rape or incest AND they are expected to keep the demon spawn & raise yet another unwanted human-cuz god wants them to.
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Ann
I was a virgin when I was raped. My only concern was if I was pregnant I was going to make damn certain my baby never knew the circumstances of their birth. They were not going to suffer for the actions of another.
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SueW
I’m hoping you weren’t pregnant because your plan was unworkable. People talk, and eventually, the secrets you thought were dead and buried come back to haunt you.
As another survivor, I’m deeply sorry you had to go through that, whatever the outcome.
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Ann
I'm really sorry you also went through that. My plan was workable because I never told a soul what happened until after I knew I wasn't pregnant and the monster moved far away. If he hadn't I would have had I been pregnant.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
All rapists need to have the offending weapon removed.
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Lori-Ann Neeb
As sorry as I am for any women who suffered that and had to deal with the birth of created children it is still true that the children created had no fault or shame other than what might wrongfully be dumped on them and their mothers by narrow minded humans. They are not demon spawns or any such things. They are humans who just came to be by unfortunate circumstances. The crimes of their fathers are not theirs.
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Tanya Keller
Sorry but this is the whole problem with this problem. It is very easy to say abortions shouldn't be allowed or I would never do that. Until you have to make that decision. I understand the crimes are not the child's. But, truthfully, could you keep a baby and love it unconditionally after the "unfortunate circumstances" that they came to exist? Does the child resemble your rapist? Was it by a family member?
Being raped and violated, then you find out you are pregnant is more than just 'unfortunate circumstances' for the woman. And the term is offensive.
I hope you are never burdened by such a thing.
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Lori-Ann Neeb
I never said anything about abortions in the reply. But I do know as someone who has lived with medical conditions in evolving undeserved stigmas that I would have loved any child under any circumstances .
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Benton Wade Standard
They're the product of a woman being violated and no sane or rational god needed something like that to happen for mysterious reasons.
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Benton Wade Standard
Comment removed by user.
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Stephanie A Willey
If men could get pregnant, abortions would be free and available at every Quick Oil Change shop in every town.
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Rev. Carol M Anaski-Figurski
lol
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Benton Wade Standard
I'm not sure if that would be true or not but either way the notion of someone being able to tell someone else what to do with their own body is absurd. To say that the overturning of Roe versus Wade was a good thing well .... good for who? In the state of Texas not only is abortion not legal but it's a criminal offense to have one ... even if you're a victim of rape. That just goes beyond acceptable. You mention this to a couple of the hillbillies in this area and even they don't agree with that.
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Axcella Maria Zed
Good point
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ServantOfJudgement
Gosh Stephanie, are you saying men can't get pregnant!!?? How dare you!
Man can get pregnant and I don't see a 10 minute chop-n-shop downtown.
Now what?
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Bond Wright
How dare YOU?! I am not going to stand for you shaming and trashing this biological woman (and all the other women reading this, too). You know darn well what she means. In Ireland, a woman taxi driver had a sign on the side of her taxi that said: "If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament." The point is, if you can get off the high Trans horse for a moment, that, listen carefully now, that IF men could get pregnant, then abortion would be free and available at every quick oil change stop". That is how privileged men are. And, women are ripped off and held prisoners. And, have suffered and died agonizing deaths and untold misery for the woman and the fetus ever since this power was stolen from women to have control over her own body and her own life. Get it now? It's slavery. Vicious slavery. Perhaps you could for just a moment, just a moment, stop beating the Trans drum and SEE the suffering these male supremacy laws have caused. Just for a moment. Perhaps for a moment YOU could support women, for a change. Instead of screaming in their face, like you did to Stephanie. And, without a uterus--you are a biological male. Perhaps one that prefers to live as a female. All the power to you. Live long and prosper. Good luck. My religious philosophy is "Do what you will and harm none". I have always been on the side of people who want to live as they wished and do what they wished And, I request of you that you work to understand that biological females have the condition that they MUST have power over their own bodies. They have the task of specie propagation.Support women's liberation in every way. Oh and by the way, men could end this entire agony that goes on by doing one thing: Pull OUT. Before depositing your sperm. Yea, that's right, gentlemen--Pull Out! Get control of yourself and pull out. Before depositing. The fact this act is NEVER questioned is pure and raw male supremacy. Contribute to a happier, healthier human specie where every pregnancy is supported and every child gets to have the support and can grow up in love and abundance and contribute to a world where democracy is the natural order. Thank you to ULC for this valuable blog. I am very grateful for it. This is a contribution to promote democracy. All patriarchal religions are dominated by male supremacy and as such promote power over women. There is now an authentic spiritual vacuum in our country and hopefully, up ahead, that will change once again, as we saw in the 70's. These young men (and women) need better spiritual guidance than what they are being offered. Let's work toward that together.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
He was mocking the argument by using trans people as the joke. If you read this forum regularly you will see that he is just as transmisic as you are. He just saw an opportunity to jab at trans people while also stirring the pot.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
I don't understand transmisics. I know 3 transwomen. They're great people.
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David Douglas Winters
Abortion is not a choice; it is a massive industry.
It does not exist to protect women. It exists to generate income.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Put down the red pills David. Abortion is women's healthcare. The massive industry is viagra and cialis.
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Alexander Clarke
And porn.
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Bond Wright
You know noting about it since you don't carry a uterus. Until then you should listen to those that do.
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Bond Wright
Winters: pornography is a massive industry--10 billion per year. And the usual theme is the brutal treatment of women. Now that's an industry.....
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
And, the LDS (AKA, Mormons) get more income, (VIA, the Marriott Hotels who make more, showing porn on demand) in their hotel rooms, while the rest of us have to purchase nudist magazines.
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Bond Wright
"while the rest of us HAVE to purchase nude magazines". What the heck is THAT supposed to mean? Bishop. Otherwise --what?
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Meanings are in the minds of those “beholden” to them, as it’s saith in my denominations *SHP) of the ULC. If something is lacking in its meaning to you, perhaps others attribute different meanings to something’s, than do others,
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Bond Wright
Say what?
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
And, the LDS (AKA, Mormons) get more income, (VIA, the Marriott Hotels who make more, showing porn on demand) in their hotel rooms, while the rest of us have to purchase nudist magazines.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
And, the LDS (AKA, Mormons) get more income, (VIA, the Marriott Hotels who make more, showing porn on demand) in their hotel rooms, while the rest of us have to purchase nudist magazines.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
And, the LDS (AKA, Mormons) get more income, (VIA, the Marriott Hotels who make more, showing porn on demand) in their hotel rooms, while the rest of us have to purchase nudist magazines.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
David Douglas Winters you made a lot of people laugh.
You said "Abortion is not a choice; it is a massive industry."
As if religion isn't? The Mormon church is worth over $330 BILLION DOLLARS.
Abortions do protect women. Especial from Christians who rape them.
It is the Christian church, and religion which generates income.
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David Douglas Winters
Cool down Scooter. Watch your language. (See rule number three.)
Then take note (as the rest of us do) that you’re quarreling in the mud in which you both wallow. You dug this mud pit together. Now you’re harvesting the logically foreseeable outcomes.
Boo hoo.🙄
You no longer can contribute to the gene pool. Consider leaving this discussion in the hands of those who actually have skin in the game.
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Bond Wright
OK....You are not just offering CONSTRUCTIVE criticism--you are just throwing spitballs at me and ServantofJudgement. Perhaps that makes you feel better....And, I would remind you that Jesus taught love. So did Ghandi and Eleanor Roosevelt, Desmond Tutu and many others. You could--could--revisit their teachings. May I suggest that you--and all of us--will benefit, as such. Finally: these facts should have our undivided attention: Recent polls reveal that 519,981 men who raped women caused over 65,000 pregnancies in 14 U.S. states with total abortion bans. Further, women who are pregnant or recently gave birth are twice as likely to die by homicide than any other cause of maternal mortality, most often at the hands of male partners ( a man). National Organization of Men Against Sexism (NOMAS) this month is having a conference in July. Their goal is the issue of male violence against women. Men have a problem. See their web site for more information. Out.
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Stephanie A Willey
My bad ... I should have specified cis-men, those who own and operate the age old patriarchy. If cis-men could get pregnant, abortion would be cheap and available at every quick oil change shop.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
This straight, CIS male has a "hex the patriarchy" bumper sticker on his car. If all Abrahamics suddenly disappeared, the world would be a million times better off.
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abortion is murder