A Florida church recently invited a drag queen to deliver their Sunday sermon for an in-person service that was also live-streamed.
At one point, two children appeared on stage beside the performer and the lead pastor.
The move provoked outrage from some who say that inviting a drag queen to preach the gospel – and involving children – was wildly inappropriate.
Other critics saw the guest preacher as so unbiblical that they are worried for the very soul of the church.
However, the senior pastor at Allendale United Methodist Church is defending the move to invite a drag queen to the pulpit, noting that it is a great way to promote tolerance and inclusivity.
Penny For Your Thoughts
The visiting preacher goes by Ms. Penny Cost when in drag (beneath the outfit is Isaac Simmons, a candidate studying for ordination at another church).
Senior Pastor Andy Oliver talked about the decision, explaining that “I want all people to see people like themselves called by God to preach the Gospel. I try to share my pulpit as much as possible with people who have been relegated to the margins of our church and society.”
Ms. Penny Cost’s sermon reportedly focused on societal power imbalances, and she compelled “those of us with the privilege of Whiteness, of Cis-ness, and the privilege of the access to power must be willing to get uncomfortable.”
By all accounts, the sermon was well received by the audience, including the kids who were present.
But elsewhere, not everyone was a fan.
Dragging Down the Flock?
Drag queens are the “new public face of United Methodism,” claimed president of the Institute on Religion and Democracy Mark Tooley – and he didn’t mean it as a compliment.
“Drag ministry will now become mainstream in the denomination," he claims, and “traditionalists have been given a one-year window to withdraw from the denomination.”
Tooley frames the church inviting a drag queen for a sermon as a desperate move by a church flailing for relevancy, and he believes that “dying United Methodism faces only further tragedy ahead.”
Evangelical figure Ken Ham also commented on the event, implying the performer was a "false apostle":
It's certainly not the first time we've seen controversy involving a drag queen event with children in attendance, but advocates say this is all part of a larger strategy to connect with parishioners.
This particular church isn't the only one trying to make church pews a more welcoming place for LGBTQ parishioners.
Just earlier this month we wrote about a Portland, Oregon church going out of its way to welcome the queer community with everything from gender-neutral bathrooms and nametags with pronouns.
As for bringing a drag queen to the pulpit?
During the Allendale service, the presiding pastor explained to the children why he invited Ms. Penny Cost in the first place: “One of the things I think is great about Ms. Penny Cost,” he explained to them, “is that she reminds us that we follow a God who calls us not to conform to things of this world.”
For Senior Pastor Oliver and other church leaders trying to make the church a more friendly space for the LGBTQ community, the idea of welcoming in a community oft-marginalized by the church itself is long overdue. Preaching tolerance and acceptance, especially to children, is their highest priority, they say.
But in the eyes of critics, at best, this is an attempt to get butts in church seats by turning the service into a piece of entertainment. At worst, they argue, it's an attempt to "indoctrinate" children.
What do you think? Do drag queens belong at the pulpit?
All churches and religions are intended for indoctrination of all kinds. While there is no higher religion than truth, I believe that the best indoctrination is loving acceptance of all people from all walks of life so long as that walk of life doesn’t discriminate against or harm others, and there lies the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ. I’m not entertained very easily by drag queens, but regardless of our personal or religious persuasions, if we are going to indoctrinate, especially in the Christian religion, drag queens and all other walks of life must be included or else that whole platform for indoctrination is founded on sheer hypocrisy.
This was a silly error by Reverend Oliver. The United Methodist Church is going through downsizing in America, so why cause more problems. If Mr. Isaac Simmons likes to dress up in drag, that is fine but not while preaching during this troubled time in the church. BTW there is nothing here indicating whether he is gay or not. Some people like to dress up in the opposite sex uniforms. I don't know why they didn't have a sermon on acceptance and openness without the showmanship.
You don't have to be gay to dress in drag. And talk about showmanship? How about all the so called Christian pastors who drive up in their expensive cars, and wear their expensive suits, and dance up on the stage preaching about how the people who give them money can also live like they do?
You are correct on both counts. All of the pastors and ministers I know are rather poor. I am always suspicious of motives and Christ commitment when they raise a lot of money for themselves and show it off. SHAME
BINGO, sister Joy! And how about those that preach hatred like homophobia or transphobia from the pulpit? Is that good fir kids??
Dear Rev. Dr. G. Waldron, no, he is not necessarily gay. Why would he have to be? It's gender dysphoria, aka transgender condition. Just do your homework, before you attend to make a silly comment like that. Second, how do you talk and not walk the talk? Well done to the senior pastor on educating children to tolerance. And, mister fellow reverend, what would Jesus do? Ask you to cast the first stone maybe?
I would like to think that Jesus would lay hands on him and remove his demons and put him on the righteous path.
Nothing's stopping Jesus from doing that as far as I can tell. According to what I was taught were he to chose to do so he could. Yet... he doesn't. And then folks say it is all according to a plan we couldn't possibly comprehend. What a nifty and convenient explanation. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along. Do not ask better questions.
It isn't enough that the secular world accepts drag queens, but the church has to accept them, too, so that there is no difference any longer between the world and the church and nobody is permitted to disagree with the world or condemn anything that is going on in the world, all in the name of "acceptance and inclusion", but, supposedly, "only the church is imposing itself on the world and not the world imposing itself on the church". The church accepts and loves all people, but not everything that all people are doing.This is part of Satan's plan to keep pushing the envelope and dumbing down the world and "normalizing" everything, so that there is no sin anymore and nothing is called wrong or sin, which tickles and delights him intensely and suits him right down to his toes!! As even The Satanic Bible states "The only way that Christianity can ever completely serve the needs of man is to become as Satanism is now", but Christianity can never be compromised, moderated, or changed enough to ever satisfy the world until it stops being Christianity because its purpose is to hold a light to the darkness of the world and expose that darkness, which the people of the world don't want or to be convicted of sin. So, they try to continuously water down Christianity, if it has to exist at all, in order to have their consciences troubled as little as possible. Their "Christianity" can only be "Christianity" by condoning things that actual Christianity doesn't condone, such as drag queens in the pulpit and drag queens performing in churches and gay marriages and anything else that anyone else comes up with. There are more than enough justices of the peace and civil servants to perform gay marriages without Christian churches having to perform them, too, if you really believe in diversity and people's being allowed to disagree with you and not imposing your agenda on everyone else. Where will the world be if all condemnation of anything going on in the world and the light of Christ ever goes out of it, if it's already as bad as it is while that light and condemnation of what is wrong are still in it?!! Where will be the lines against anything then, if they exist any more at all, and how much darker will the world be then? Will rapists be able to be ministers and talk about "the spiritual benefits of rape to women"?!! Will pedophiles be able to be open about their pedophilia as ministers and give sermons on "the showing of God's love to children" and invite some up on the stage for a demonstration of that "love" every Sunday?!! Harming other people can be done in many ways, not just physically, but also spiritually, emotionally, and morally, and having drag queens as ministers and no difference any longer between the church and the the world harms many people, too, whose welfare needs to be cared about as well. Let the world be the world, until some people in the world stop sinning and being part of the world, and do all that out there that they choose without dragging the church into that, too. Many people are like termites, chewing away at the houses and foundations of society where they live, thinking only about what they want and not about society as a whole, until the houses collapse on them and kill them, too, from our going down that slippery slope and spiralling downward!! That's understandable in mindless termites, but not in supposedly intelligent people.
John D. Partin, first, take a breath.... you are rambling too much nonsense. Second, who said Jesus does not like drag queens?
But he said to them, “Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.”
Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the Lord say, “The Lord will surely separate me from his people;” and let not the eunuch say, “Behold, I am a dry tree.” For thus says the Lord: “To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose the things that please me and hold fast my covenant, I will give in my house and within my walls a monument and a name better than children; I will give them an everlasting name that shall not be cut off.
Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Rise and go toward the south to the road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” This is a deserted place. And he rose and went. And there was an Ethiopian, a eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who oversaw all her treasure. He had come to Jerusalem to worship and was returning, seated in his chariot, and he was reading the prophet Isaiah. And the Spirit said to Philip, “Go over and join this chariot.” So, Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?”
Pastor George Day, I believe that it is you who needs to take a deep breath and get a grip on reality and stop your rambling nonsense because you have confused eunuch with cross dresser in your mind, though they are, quite obviously, not the same thing at all, in your eagerness to so "interpret" and water down and twist Christianity, so as to make it acceptable to worldly people, instead of bringing them around to the actual truth of Christian teaching. Eunuchs didn't and don't have to wear female clothing in order to be eunuchs and so it is ridiculous for you or anyone else to equate them. Truth isn't just whatever you or anyone else wants to say that it is, to suit yourself and other people, but has a specific meaning and contents or else there is no difference between truth and lies, if everyone can make it up to suit him or her self!! Why do I have to tell an actual minister this, if that is what you truly are? Because you don't sound like a true minister now! When you or anyone else just makes up the truth to suit him or her self, then you are blown about by every wind of doctrine, as Scripture warns us against, and are one of those who tickle men's ears with your teachings and words just to be popular with them and tell them what they want to hear, instead of what they need to hear, and because they will not endure sound doctrine, as Scripture also warns us against!! When the church just goes along with the world and approves of everything that it does, there is no longer any light to shine upon its darkness or voice to speak out against any wrongs being done in it, which is the purpose of the church in the first place: to be a light in the darkness of the world and a voice crying out in the wilderness against wrongdoing!! The Devil can quote Scripture for his purpose and that is what you are doing when you quote those Scripture verses, for a purpose that they were never intended to support and meaning that they don't actually convey: you are serving the Devil, since that is what he wants the Scriptures used for!! Here is a straightforward Scripture verse against cross dressing and drag queens: A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman's garment, for all who do so are an abomination to the Lord, your God (Deuteronomy 22:5). Jesus said that not one jot or tittle of the law shall pass away until all be fulfilled and that includes this verse from Deuteronomy. So, Jesus didn't like or support drag queens, as he would have said if there had been any people who were sick and crazy enough in his time and that he saw who walked around in clothing of the opposite sex, but obviously there weren't any people around him that crazy!! There must have been some people in the writer of Deuteronomy's time who were cross dressing or there wouldn't have been any point in a prohibition of something that nobody was ever doing. Bottom line: when the church and ministers, such as yourself, are the same as the world, there is no point to there being a church or ministers. We are supposed to be in the world, but not of the world, which is more actual Scripture for you to look up and pay heed to, and not twist it to suit yourself!! Satan himself can appear as an angel of light and so it is no wonder that his ministers (and you are one of them) also pretend to yourselves and others that you are "ministers of righteousness"!! Look up that Scripture, too, and do that for yourself, instead of needing me or anyone else to look up things and do things for you!!!
He laid out verses. They were in the context of what was being discussed. You chose to ignore them and decided that calling him Satan was a better way to argue you point. You are a strange dude. Everyone can see your illogical. Sorry to have to tell you that but you made it so obvious that it needed to be said out loud.
But he misinterpreted and misconstrued those verses to make them "support" what they don't actually support and mean what they don't actually mean and yes I'm going to ignore those erroneous twistings of Scripture and stick to the actual meaning and point of those verses, as every truly reasonable person here and in the world will do!! He called himself Satan by aligning himself with Satanic thinking about and distortions of those verses, and I merely acknowledged the truth of what he was and still is saying about himself, which he isn't honest enough to do himself. "Illogical" to an actually illogical person, such as yourself, is just to be expected from you and more evidence of your illogic, which is obvious to all truly reasonable people. Stating your distorted views out loud don't actually make nonsense into reasonable statements, but go ahead and lie to yourself and live in your dream world and call people who disagree with your illogic "strange" or whatever to your heart's content and we will just consider the source of your statements and condescend to you. That's just what is done towards children!!
Illogical Jonny rambling again. Brian Scott Hoff, thanks for your kind statement. Shalom to both of you :-)
John D. Partin, for one who judges me of 'rambling,' you do an excellent job yourself... just read at the length of your sentences where you go a great length to simply convey one bullet point: I am a minister of Satan. Bingo, my friend! :-)
I think you would be good at standing with the Pharisees when they judged Jesus as possessed or fake teacher because he, like me, enjoyed the company of people who may view as even worse than drag queens, viz prostitutes and mafiosi (tax collectors, i.e.!).
No, my friend. You are wrong. While the teaching standard is noticeably clear, that homosexual acts are always wrong (never can they be approved, not even in the context of romantic love) and dressing in opposite sex clothes is also detrimental to humanity, there was at that time no word that could be used to define LGBT people - even LGBT is a construct of our time, and not necessarily inclusive of all anomalies., let alone intersex persons, for instance. Eunuch was a term that was used to refer to any sexual anomaly that was either unwanted (caused by human factors or by birth) or wanted (like choosing celibacy like the Essenes used to do).
Does a sermon from Jesus on the three distinct kinds of ring the bell? Just a question! :-)
Since Jesus and John the Baptist both gave long condemnations of the scribes and the Pharisees and the moneychangers in the temple, they must also have been "Pharisees", according to you. Jesus didn't associate with the harlots and tax collectors because he approved of how they lived, which he didn't, but because they were sinners and he came to save sinners, which he couldn't have done without being around them to teach them. However, you approve of the sinners who are drag queens, and so you can't reasonably use Jesus' being around the sinners of his time, which he did for a different reason than your approval of gays, transgenders, and drag queens, as any justification for your approval of them. If you started associating with them to lead them out of that sin, you would then be following Jesus' example and teachings, but you would have to change drastically from what you are right now to do that. Those other sinners don't excuse drag queens or justify your being around them, not to lead them out of their sin, but out of approval of them. Your not thinking that you are a minister of Satan and your not actually being one are two entirely different things and light years apart. It does you no good to agree that cross dressing is wrong and homosexuality is wrong, for appearance's sake, and then turn right around and approve of drag queens and say that Jesus' being around sinners to teach them against their sins "justifies" your being around drag queens and even putting on lipstick and drag yourself, as I read in one of your posts that you would do or did. Do you disapprove of and condemn it or not?!! If you do, why are you indulging in it yourself?!! "Eunuch" as a term for differences of any kind from regular straight practice, unacceptable to society back then, is the result of words having multiple meanings and not being able to be translated from one language to another and maintain the meaning in the original. That is why there are scholars who are studying the original Hebrew or Greek of the scriptures to determine their exact meaning. So, "eunuch" didn't necessarily or probably or at all mean "transgender" or "cross dresser", but only basically someone who castrated himself. Origen wasn't a drag queen or transgender, but merely castrated himself and made himself a eunuch because of his literal and false understanding of Jesus' teaching "some have made themselves eunuchs (again, not drag queens or transgenders) for the kingdom of God's sake". This is all your and others' phony attempt to "legitimize" drag queens or transgenders, saying "look, it's right in the Bible", twisting scriptures for your purpose, as Satan does There was and still is a word to describe "LGBT" people and that is unnatural. There aren't three or four or more sexes or "intersex" people, but only men and women, and those who are confused about their sexuality and actual gender, misled by social conditioning, popular "thinking", and the current propaganda. Satan is the author of all this confusion. That proves that you are a minister of Satan because you go along with all of that, which an actual Christian minister wouldn't be doing.
Hmmmm. Mr. Day. I do declare I may have been slightly mistaken about you. Thank you for that nice surprise. Whilst we may disagree on universal truth, I suppose we can at least agree that Christ accepts all of his flock. Again. Thank you.
We are all children of God and education is key and not to hide. Gay twins and my safety was with the gay and drag queens while I ran as a child. It did not change who I am but it sure blessed my heart with a special love and acceptance as God wants for all people, whether in character or color it is their vessel and paint brush as we choose to live HAPPILY GOD BLESS THE WORLD, the people and all life
Do you have a particular god in mind, Catherine, mankind has created so many?
The church must allow and support all members of the LGBTQ+ community. They are people first, no matter what gender or not they identify with or if they choose to be the opposite identity than is expected by society. I don't feel that transgender people should be forbidden to preach. if anyone knows and understands the helpless and hopeless plus the remedy for that it is someone from the LGBTQ+ community. They put up with so much vulgar and unseemly behavior from so called "Christians" and yet they still wish to preach God's word.
We can choose not to participate.
Jesus of Nazareth would have welcomed Ms. Penny Cost to his dinner table, to his home, to his place of worship. RCH
Jesus might have even welcomed her to his bed.
And as a Leader in His Church? Just like the leaders in His time.....
Dear Robert Hauck, MD, FAAP, a Pharisee called Rev. Dr. G. Waldron thinks not so!
you can just feel the love in here from those heavy-duty xtians channeling their jebus; quoting their god, hating all those that aren't toeing their particular xtian line. all those that are hating, claiming satanism, quoting their bibble, pounding their fist, claiming hellfire...those are actually the signs of the anti-chrst.
beware of those that espouse to know the mind of god, who claim knowledge of things that are beyond their ken, who rail, and hate, and threaten with punishment that is not theirs to mete out, who loudly claim only their god, only their belief, only their words are true while all others are false. they are all the anti-chrst, enjoined together to convince us to follow their angry, psychotic, serial-killing, child-murdering god all the while claiming to be working for peace and love while it is Satan who is the true god, painted to be evil by the very anti-god these people worship.
Hail Satan, take pity on those that do not know you, that do not love you and that have been taught to hate you, save their souls from eternal xtian damnation
As usual with ungodly and Satanic "thinking" people, you have everything upside down, backwards, inverted, and all jumbled up and confused in your head, where darkness is "light" and light is "darkness", right is "wrong" and wrong is "right", and truth is "lies" and lies are "truth"!! "Woe unto them that call evil good and good evil, that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter" (Isaiah 5:20). "And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil" (John 3:19). Like cockroaches, they prefer the darkness and run and hide when the light turns on them. That fits mindless insects, but shouldn't be the way of actually thinking human beings! You and others can't make up "truth" to suit yourselves and "truth" mean what everyone differently says that it means because then there is no such thing as truth anymore. There has to be a standard for truth beyond just what everyone comes up with for himself or herself, and that standard is God. Otherwise, there is chaos and the Tower of Babel, the same as there would be if everyone had different standards of measuring distance and time and weight and monetary value. God can say who will be punished and who will be forgiven by what punishment or forgiveness they have brought on themselves, and we merely relate what He has revealed about that in His word. Satan is only "the true God" to very confused and illogical people, such as yourself, since Satan didn't even create himself, much less the whole rest of the universe and coordinate, calibrate, synchronize, and maintain all of it, when he can't even logically or successfully manage his own life and affairs or those of his idiotic admirers and followers, who are like Jewish capos in a concentration camp "thinking" that the Nazis are their "friends"!!! Satan is such a loser and idiot that he thought that he could overpower God and take over running the universe and, inevitably, lost that fight and was cast out into the most miserable place in the universe, and that is his version of "being a genius and victorious over God"!! You and everyone else should be very thankful that he didn't win that war in Heaven or your lives would be a million times worse than they are now! Not someone with his head screwed on too tight!! And you and other suckers are more idiotic than he is and can't wait to join him there and be miserable and tortured for eternity with your "good friend"!! Nobody who even wanted to go and live in a sewer in this world until they died and couldn't wait to get there would be one of the sharpest tacks in the board!! So, how much more unthinking are any people who want to go and be in a place where they will be miserable and tortured for eternity and bring that on themselves?!! Instead of going to live with Someone Who loves them and cares about them!! "Hell will just be a big party for all of our pleasures forever!". Do you know even in this world any people who hate you and want to throw a party for you, except a necktie party to hang you or a pig party to insult and mock and ridicule you or a party such as was thrown for Rasputin to kill him?!! So, why would you think that Satan, who hates you more than any human being could, intends to entertain and delight you for the rest of time, instead of logically figuring out that he has something much more rotten in mind for you and so try to avoid that as hard as you can?!! But go ahead and follow the path of least resistance and be led by the nose and by that Pied Piper Satan's music, like rats out of Hamlin, down to your destruction and don't listen to my or anyone's warnings against that. Lemmings running over a cliff to die! Some people have to learn the hard way and I guess that you are one of those people!!
WOW John D. Partin! What a compassionate love-filled pastoral message! You truly make me excited by heaven’s hope! I'm sure so many lost souls will join the Church after hearing you ranting at them this Solomon-like song of songs! Bingo!
Love isn't only soft words and going along with people's sins, as you and many other people "think" that it "has to be", but is also and, indeed, usually warning people about dangers to their bodies and souls. You are totally into going along with transgenderism, homosexuality, gay marriages, and whatever else the current propaganda and political correctness tell you to go along with, so as to be accepted and popular with them, and so portray any speaking against any or all of that as "this Solomon-like song of songs". Truth isn't turned into a lie just because you ridicule it, since you have no other tactic to use and aren't able to actually refute it. Christians aren't in the world to be popular with people or pussyfoot around with them or be diplomatic about their sins, so as to not offend them, but are here to teach people the truth about their sins and lead them out of those sins and not compromise with and be conciliatory about them. Those compromises with sin are the world's leading the church into sin, instead of the church leading the world our of sin and showing them the way out of that through Christ. A conciliatory church is Satan's delight and part of his constant work and scheme to undermine and destroy Christianity in the world.
Seems like for a group of people who claim to follow someone teaching peace and love for all, there's an awful lot of hatred, bigotry, and discrimination. I can't help but wonder what Jesus would say to them were he here to see how they take his name in vain.
CHRIS he knows
Chris-those are the goats spoken of in the Bible. Not all who say they believe truly believe. Pray for them.
Chris, peace and love for all people has never meant peace and love and acceptance for all that they are doing, saying, and thinking, and not calling sin a sin anymore. Jesus, if he were here physically, wouldn't have any problem with calling sin a sin because that is what he said it was to the moneychangers and the scribes and Pharisees, and didn't compromise with evil, as many people here and in the world do, and say that evil is "good" and good is "evil" and tell people what they want to hear, instead of telling them what they need to hear. Hate the sin, but love the sinner is Christian practice. Peace on Earth to men of good will.
John D. Partin, for once I agree with you. How sad that you do not sound so loving to sinners! Do you realize that the Pharisees and money changers Jesus told off were those standing on your side of the fence? Just look at who his followers were:
Mary Magdala: a prostitute!
Peter: a coward!
Jude: a money corrupt traitor!
Matthew: a mafioso (aka tax-collector)
Simon the Zealot: aka terrorist
Paul: another terrorist (killing us, the Christians!)
Loving to sinners isn't synonymous with loving with loving to their sins. Hate the sin and love the sinner. Today, it is believed that if you really loved the sinners, you would have to love their sins, too, but that is never what Jesus taught or practiced when he clearly told sinners "Go and sin no more". That is hardly what he would have said to them if he believed as you and many other people believe today that "real love of sinners means loving and accepting everything that they do", which is just ridiculous on the face of it and the deeper that you look into it, the more ridiculous it gets!! Love even of Nazis and Klansmen doesn't, by any stretch of the imagination, mean also loving what they have said and done and are still doing, and neither does love of homosexuals, transgenders, and all other sinners mean loving everything that they do. Jesus came to save sinners and so, of course, those around. Him were sinners, since He couldn't have taught them if they weren't around Him, but that never meant that He approved of their sins, which is what He came to lead them out of. I'm as much against Pharisees and moneychangers (who are actually on your side of the fence and said, as you say now, that their sins aren't really sins) as Jesus was, and so they couldn't be on my side of the fence. Today's Pharisees and moneychangers are religious and social pretenders, such as yourself, who say and think that just calling a sin "a good thing" actually makes it a good thing, instead of still a sin, no matter what else anyone says that it is. You can play all the games with yourselves that you want, and will do so, about what sins are, but you are only fooling yourselves and those who are foolish enough to believe you. You are just wolves in sheep's clothing, trying to present homosexuality, transgenderism, and other obvious sins as "really just good and natural things, which we should all just accept" and trying to chip away at morality, little by little, and push the envelope until you have brought society to a totally amoral condition. You are like termites chewing away at the very house where they live, not understanding or caring that you will bring the house down on your own heads, killing yourselves, but only caring about what you want and about being popular with and accepted by people. "Woe unto you when all men (or the people that you want to) speak well of you" because you are, then, just tickling men's ears and telling them what they want to hear, instead of what they need to hear. "If even an angel from heaven should preach another Gospel to you than that which you have received, let him be anathema". Look it up because I don't want to waste the time looking everything up for you and it will do you more good to look it up for yourself. Christians aren't supposed to be people pleasers, but people releasers through the Holy Spirit from their sinful thinking and practices and real friends to people by telling them the truth, instead of comfortable lies! Satan himself can appear as an angel of light, which he does to deceive people easier. So, don't imitate Satan by merely posing as "a minister or angel of light" to get them to accept darkness as "light" or wrong as "right", but be a true minister! "This is the judgment: light has come into the world and men preferred the darkness to the light because their deeds were evil" Look it up yourself!
Standing ovation to this church for including the LGBTQ community! More churches and society in general need to be more accepting of others
Wrong! As a transgender person anyone in drag teaches straight people that that is what I am which is completely wrong and disgusting! Those perverts need to be illegal and away from our children! They are not and I repeat not part of the wider whole community of LGBT. If that's the case then might as well go in Black face and start dancing like sambo to represent the black community. Don't like that? No difference! Disgusting!
Kathryn. You don’t speak for the LGBTQ+ community. I get that you’re just a cis affirming trans woman, but you’re a minority within a minority and are projecting really stupid false equivalencies. In the last 10 years I’ve seen a schism grow in the community, an it’s between the passing for straight, cis affirming members of the community who are a loud mouthed minority, and everyone else in the community just trying to live their lives on their own terms. Saying drag is the same as black face. By the by, the cis affirming LGB out there typically don’t accept trans, throwing drag queens under the bus doesn’t make you any better in their eyes. You’re the disgusting one. Not them. Get therapy, bigot.
PS I’m Bi. So don’t you dare try and say I don’t know what the hell im talking about. Though to be quite Frank, I think you’re most likely just a straight imposter spam bot saying stupid things. 🤷🏻♂️
Robert James Ruhnke, as a man experiencing both same-sex attraction and gender dysphoria, I couldn't agree more. I recently had the police involved in hate speech against me from my students for the way I express my gender dysphoria. How sad we are the target of such malice! Thank you for your comment :-)
Jesus of Nazareth would have welcomed Ms. Penny Cost to his dinner table, to his home, to his place of worship. RCH
Disrespectful to the church and religion
Nope, not disrespectful to the church as the church invited them. As for disrespectful to religion...nope again. Stop acting as if everyone has to bow down to your particular beliefs, only you need to follow (and, I suppose, respect) your beliefs. Other people are free to do as they wish with regards to their religion.
Rev. Dr. Father JJ, the same Pharisees that killed Jesus are around today. Yes, Nicholas J Page?
it is a direct affront to God and the church.
it is in the bible where God says it's an abomination for men to where women's clothes and women to where men's clothes.
these satanic pastors are only leading there followers straight to hell. once saved always saved is not true. our Lord Jesus Christ said many will come to me and say Lord Lord, have we not baptized people in the name, have we not cast out demons etc., and he says depart from me for i never new you. Accepting Jesus Christ can get your sins forgiven, but you must repent of your sins--you cannot pick and choose what words of God you want to keep--you must keep all commandments. that why we are reborn and put aside those earthly temptations.
the churches now only care about money--they do not preach the word of God and to repent, as they are only worried about the green coming in. the people don't want to hear the word of God, they want to keep living in sin--therefore they seek pastors with itchy ears to hear what they want to hear--the churches that don't preach repentance are only leading the members straight to hell.
they even have drag queens in kindergarten--they are corrupting the innocence of the children with evil thoughts and wicked ways.
we do not hate sinners--as Christians, we are taught to love everyone--but we do not condone willful sin!! it must be changed--if nothing else you must at least try--not take pride in your sins.
no wonder the judgement against America is coming and if you read revelation--you will know who new Babilon is.
i feel sorry the churches are leaning towards our wicked society and bending the word of God--for wide is the gate to hell, but narrow is the path to eternal life, and most won't find it.
i condemn all willful sin. it is nothing to be proud of or boastful for. it will cost you your soul.
You sure sound like you have a lot of hate towards those who you do not agree with. Jesus would have invited these pastors to have dinner with him.
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Well said sir. It is clear in DEUTERONOMY 22:5
There shall not be an article (keli) of a man upon a woman, and a man shall not put on a wrapper of (simlat) a woman, because everyone doing (who does) these (things) is an abomination of (unto) the Lord your God.
Barry T Gabbard, WOW! What an awesome way you have to communicate God's unconditional love!!
I wonder if the parents of the first born children that died would have agreed with you, George. 🤔
Probably not, Lionheart. But, again, it's about the feeling of perception isn't it?
Are you suggesting it was okay that your God killed them, George, when it would have been easier to have taken Pharaoh out?
Fortunately, it appears to be only a story.
Are those who wrote these comments "Out of your minds"
The Church doesn't allow us to have anything to do with those that are promoting teachings other than those of Christ Jesus, and the Bible...
These people are under Satans control and influence and needs to be prayed for, and get mental help... The WHO just reversed their stand on "Trans" being a mental disorder [for political reasons]...
The persons involved MUST be removed and or fired...
Zimmerman studied the downfall of civilizations and one thing they ALL had in common are the following 5 conditions:
1) Alternative forms of marriage [men to men, and women to women, etc] 2) Feminist movement flourishes, women lose their inclination toward childbirth and childbearing, and reduction in the birthrate. 3) Increasing desire and celebration for adultery 4) Growing disrespect for authority, both parents and others. 5) Greater tolerance for sexual perversion; trans, LGBT, gay and lesbian, etc...
Does any of this look or sound familiar?
GOD Bless America, her True POTUS, her Peoples, and Lands... AMEN...
WWG1WGA... Q-ANON... Deus Vult…
PS SAVE our POWs… J6TRUTH Americans for Justice, INC – United in Defending Life, Liberty & Freedom (a4justice.org)
Those who are in places of Trust and Power should NEVER be CORRUPT, those responsible for ALL of the False Flags in this country, 9/11, the Oklahoma bombing, etc... and the Election FRAUD, will get theirs, and very soon... Tactical Civics [tm] learn how you can start We The People Grand Jury and take them down, ALL of them...
https://states.americanstatenationals.org/nh2/ Do yourselves a favor and read up on what they've been up to...
GOD Bless the Patriots of this World, The Globalists MUST go, one way or another, LORD please put a hedge of Protection around us ALL... AMEN...
Here we must have a Pope Trump Nationalist Christian Church member. I really think they should leave the word Christian out since there is little Christian ideas or beliefs. Trump has become a god to them, like Apollo or maybe even more important Zeus..
Are you charging rent for the space that Trump is occupying in your psyche these two years since he's been president?
Trump is still very much still in in the news. I thought the need to go out and vote would be over when he left office, that things would return to the old level of corruptness and lies, where it didn’t matter too much who was put into office. But, no, the prospect of Trump trying again is very real and his fundamentalist buffoons are still blathering on about him.
Trump's blathering buffoons are losing momentum, and Trump will undoubtedly be in prison long before 2024. Probably not the one with the golf course iether, but in maximum security, where his stupid supporters won't be able to break him out. That is, if he doesn't die of old age first. Fortunately, longevity of life is not something his family was blessed with.
Considering he's still in the news and still yammering on about winning the election, not to mention all those who still support him, that's really a stupid question. I mean, how many times did Trumplicans bring up Obama after their master was put in office?
Chris, my Witch name is Raven Apollo, and Apollo, the Greek and Roman god of healing, is my patron god.
You sound very closed-minded and very lucky to identify as straight and probably White. Before you critisize, walk in the other person's shoes.
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Oh great. Another "Christian Nationalist" going on a rant that makes no sense.
"The Church doesn't allow us to have anything to do with those that are promoting teachings other than those of Christ Jesus, and the Bible..."
Sounds like brainwashing to me.
Kenneth Mark Ravens. You are the problem and those like you. I can see by your post that you are not a Christian and fear any religion that would espouse your views. I also pray that any who read your post will see the anger and vitriol in it as well as the untruth.
May your soul be saved one day.
what do YOU think,,,, does Satan belong in the church ?????? is that the new religion?????? is everybody so asleep not to see that Satan is ruling the world ????? is humanity going insane???????? Judgement day is coming, kidd you not are you all so blind not to see the face of the earth is changing ???? the Spirit of Mother Earth is rising and with her the children of the Light WHERE WILL YOU BE ?????
Well said sir. I agree wholeheartedly.
You ask if everyone is asleep Elga, but I have to ask whether you too are asleep, because there is still no supporting evidence to prove anything that was written about in that book. Stories of things like,a judgement day, going to hell, sinning against a God, appears to be all unsupported fictional tales, unless of course, you have some wonderful evidence, that nobody else has, to prove all those stories are true.
Lionheart, you keep begging for evidence, but this is like asking a dog to fly. Dogs and birds have different natures, just as faith and agnosticism are separate things. I think I asked you once, but have you come across Lee Strobel? Keep an open mind and read his books. You will find him at least interesting, even though you may disagree. On a side note, I am a member of Alcoholics Anonymous. It is scientifically proved by Dr Silkworth that our society has high success due to the help of a higher power. This is not little evidence, in my opinion.
It's self will, George. I know you think I higher power is involved, but again. there is no evidence to support your theory.
I know of many people who have gone to seculartherapy.org to recover from many forms of addictions and have just as much success, with NO "higher power" involved, and the best thing is, those that were healed realize they had the strength to do it "themselves" and not by leaning on the misguided thoughts that a mythical deity helped them.
"Tolerance and inclusiveness" has become the watchword of those that would destroy The Church (meaning the body of Christian believers) from within. And while in the last few of decades this has really taken off, it is nothing new. It has been going on over the centuries.
God is NOT a tolerant and inclusive God. All, through the grace of the Lord Jesus christ, are welcome into his loving family, BUT...there are rules.
Rules that a number of so-called Christian scholars and mainstream denominations have chosen to ignore and circumvent through academic mental gymnastics to have us believe that the rule book, the Bible, more importantly the New Testament, does not really mean what it says.
This concerted effort over the last few decades, even more so since the turn of the century, to blur the distinction that God intended for his two greatest creations, MAN and WOMAN, can only be described as blasphemy for its spit in the eye of He who created them.
But weak and frail humans did not invent this rebellious nature against God. It started millennia ago with Morning Star's (some call him Lucifer) rebellion in Heaven.
Not able to win that particular battle he came at God sideways through man, starting in the Garden of Eden and has been it ever since. Part of the results of which we see manifest before us today with this topic.
Your idea of God is a teenaged twit with nothing better to do than bully and cause problems. You and views represent what is weak in man, bigotry, xenophobia, closed mindedness, and all other vile and violent madnesses that follow. Yours is the God of the Lynch mob with their torches and nooses. Truly, the forebears of hell on earth. I’ll pray you see the whole light of creation some day, and see a way out of your black and white paradigm.
You left out, "Words are violence". 😄
In the end it will be neither you nor I but God that judges. But until then the only guidance we have as to what that judgment might be are the scriptures. There are certain things that people do that they SAY is fine with God, but if the subject is addressed in the scriptures it has nothing good to say about it.
And I have read nothing in the scriptures that leads me to believe that purposefully mocking God's ultimate creations, man and woman, in this manner is okie dokie with Him.
If the scripture speak to you in a different way....well, I guess eventually we will both find out what the truth is.
Or, as the evidence seems to point to, the lights will simply go out and your experiences shall end. You will not know that you were wrong. You will simply not exist anymore.
Well, BSH, obviously that is the basket in which you have placed your eggs. But the other side of the coin of your argument is that you better hope that you are not wrong.
And I'm not sure why people keep talking about EVIDENCE or tangible facts when talking about matters of religious FAITH. Faith in the intangible being the foundation of the major religions of the world down through the centuries.
Words beget violence, and always have. My Gods have already judged right wing Christianity to be vile cancer that is terminal, Rev. your idea of god as is said is a farce. Yours is a perverted ideology that reduces men to bests, and women the brood mothers of beasts. Humanity is a species that is only as strong as it is diverse, and your lot’s idea of humanity bottlenecks into an ideologically sad state. The Gods don’t take kindly to your lot in the end. They never do.
Yes words CAN bring on violence, but are not violence in and of themselves. "Sticks and stones..." Etc
Calling out perversion and sinful practices is different than calling for violence to be had against those individuals. And anybody, particularly any christian, who equates calling out sin as the same thing as calling for for violence against the individual does not understand the teachings of the church and probably has mental health issues.
Witness the Inquisition and Protestant/Catholic Wars down through the century. Prime examples of the dark forces, call it the devil if you will, working in the world to separate believers from the grace of God through Jesus Christ.
It is the same with your polytheistic belief system. I have now no doubt that your Gods to have harsh judgment against Christianity and the one God.
But your so called Gods are not God(s) at all, either singularly or together. They are minions of the Father of Lies who seeks to pervert man's thoughts and deeds away from the Divine.
And diversity is fine when the positive talents of each is called on for the good of the whole. But too much conflicting diversity does nothing more than lead to division. In this case it is the division that makes the enemies of God happy because it is meant to divide God from his ultimate creation, mankind. In this case by blurring the purposeful distinction God had intended between men and women.
Finally, a voice of sanity omong those who would try to twist and pervert God's word to accommodate their own warped agendas.
I can't imagine why anyone would want to go to that goddam christian heaven. It seems like a very dreary place to be.
If my soul was condemned to spend eternity in goddam christian heaven the first thing I'd do there is sodomize the father, son, and holy ghost!!! Then I'd kick the out, and send them to Hell, so a legion of demons could take turns banging them!
Carl, this all sounds like a delusion if grandeur and a ridiculous and insane fantasy of yours that you will "sodomize the father, son, and holy ghost" and "kick them out, and send them to Hell, so a legion of demons could take turns banging them!!" because a much stronger being than you and his allies couldn't succeed even in overthrowing God, much less in taking sexual advantage of Him, and they were the ones who were cast into Hell!! So, obviously, you would have no chance of doing anything against God and are just making up this story for own sick amusement. As for Heaven's being "a very dreary place to be" to someone who would need it be a non-stop orgy and party in order for it not to be "dreary" to him, that just shows the immaturity of your view and the alternative of Hell won't be that non-stop orgy and party, either, even though Satan tells you and other people that it will be to lure you into it, since he isn't going to throw a party for people that he hates, but has something much worse in mind for you and everyone else going there!! But go ahead and lie to yourself and don't listen to me or anyone else warning you about it and go there because some people just have to learn the hard way!!
Carl Bernard Elfstrom, this is absolutely disgusting and highly offensive to us Christians. You bring shame on yourself, and I wouldn't want to be in your shoes when the time comes! The last time men wanted to sodomize God, they got fire at them from heaven!
I am doing a talk tomorrow to a Catholic LGBT group in my ministry suit and with my lipstick and makeup in place! :-)
Andy is a friend of mind and a very strong believer. the Jesus he believes in is the same one I believe in, A God of love who accepts all people, loves all people and does not ask that other confirm to the standards of others. His church is an open and accepting one. Mine is only a few blocks away and we also have a strong commitment to accepting others as they are.
We quit calling ourselves christian a few years ago as we saw so many churches using the name to hurt others, to hate others and to destroy others. We now call ourselves Jesus Christians. And out only commandment is to love God and love your neighbor.
I do not say I am Christian. I say I try to follow the Jesus Way, which is love, compassion, tolerance, nonjudgmental, generous, and protects the vulnerable. Shame on the Christofascists and the Christan Taliban I see spouting off here, AS IF they actually follow Jesus. Following Jesus, it is important to follow his teachings. Not to cherry pick mistranslated Jewish Scripture verses and the current Christian scriptures (which also vary, depending on your sect. See The Apocrypha.) The Way is LOVE. That is all. It is really that simple.
Krystina S., you say that you try to follow "the Jesus Way, which is love, compassion, tolerance, nonjudgmental, generous, and protects the vulnerable". But Jesus wasn't tolerant of everything. He was intolerant of moneychangers in the temple and drove them out with a scourge, telling them "This is a house of prayer, but you have made it a den of thieves". He was intolerant of hypocritical scribes and Pharisees and spoke his seven woes against them in Matthew 23:13-39, judging them righteously, and said that they were of the devil. "You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, you believe me not". John 8:44-45. He couldn't have been against moneychangers in the temple, scribes and Pharisees, and the devil, but also have been all about tolerance. He did protect the vulnerable because he said "If anyone causes one of these little ones---those who believe in me---to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea" Matthew 18:6, and so he was also intolerant of those offending his little ones, which would be drag queens today who are forcing themselves and their agenda on innocent children!! That was and is Jesus' actual way, if you aren't making up Jesus and his way to suit yourself. Why should we be more tolerant and accepting of everything than Jesus was himself, even if we could, which we can't?!! Are you going to say that Jesus was the "Taliban", too?
Hey Johnny, read below :-)!
While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?
Woe to you, Johnny, teacher of the law and Pharisee, you hypocrite! You are like a whitewashed tomb, which looks beautiful on the outside but on the inside is full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.
Georgie Day, Jesus' eating with the sinners and tax collectors doesn't mean that he approved of their sins because he came to bring the sinners, not the righteous (according to themselves), to repentance, and he could hardly have brought the sinners to repentance if he hadn't spent any time with them to teach the truth to them. If speaking against the sins of the sinners makes me "a whited sepulchre", then Jesus must also have been "a whited sepulchre" because that is what he did. On the other hand, white washing sins, so that they aren't sins anymore or don't appear to be, is the work of false teachers and Satan appearing as an angel of light and telling people what they want to hear, instead of what they need to hear. Jesus wants to lead us to repentance and conforming our wills to the will of God, and not away from repentance and conforming God to our will and the current propaganda and political correctness. Which of those are you: one leading people to repentance and conformity to the will of God or leading people away from repentance, and white washing sins, and conforming God to our will and the current propaganda and political correctness?!!
You say that the Jesus Way is love and compassion, but there is a false "compassion and love", as well as a genuine compassion and love. False "compassion and love" just go along with what people want to do and tell them what they want to hear, instead of what they need to hear. That isn't actually loving and being compassionate toward people. Genuine love and compassion tell people the truth and don't put acceptance and inclusiveness or sparing their feelings above the truth. So, going along with the current propaganda that transgenderism and cross dressing are "normal" just to be popular with people, instead of the truth that there are men and women and not just whatever other sexes some people dream up in their minds for themselves, isn't loving and being compassionate toward them.
Seems that most Christ based churches still don't accept homosexuals, lot less full blown transsexuals. Might as well go full bore and force a place for them selves in to pews. Just cause they resent and deny the body God gave them, doesn't mean they hate God. The silly girl name he gave himself does lessen credibility. Don't ask for respect and use a ridiculous name.
Drag queens are not transsexuals, and not necessarily homosexuals, but are entertainers who perform in drag shows, usually on stage. I've even known some who were straight, married to women, and had children.
Carl Bernard Elfstrom, you have truly little notion of what transgender means.
I was not born a judge and I am cognizant of the fact that my opinion does not dictate how others should conduct themselves... but I reserve the right to not participate in such proceedings.
Imo it is inappropriate unless used as a teaching tool for 8 years and older. Otherwise it would be a breach of community peace to completely oustrasize and cause grave incidents to occur. Jesus allowed those with different problems and issues to approach learning as he taught. Regards.
Thomas Edwin Peterson, did he push the children away or did he say: let the children come to me? Oh, hold on a second... I thought it was sinners who went to Jesus! Something must be at odds then! They could not be together, could they, my dear Pharisee friend :-)?
I believe that we need to focus more on ourselves & the notion that we are ALL God’s creations. We ARE one human family & there is something to be learned from each of us if we open are hearts up to reality listen. Inclusiveness, kindness, & empathy come from understanding all viewpoints, its growth.
In the last days, the world would rear its head in the church. When people receive the Word of God, it changes the listener to look more like Christ so people would not continue engaging in such sexual immorality. The church has compromised itself to allow such behavior in the pulpit. God’s Word speaks against such behavior, and when the church accepts this behavior, they become hypocrites to what they believe is true. The world will accept any behavior that is contrary to God’s Word. Preachers of the Gospel cannot engage in such behavior, for it is against the will of God. The world wants the church to accept its behavior to compromise its belief and faith. The church cannot receive this behavior because it contradicts God’s Word. The church is in a wilderness and must use the Word of God to defeat the enemy, as Jesus defeated Satan in the wildness with God’s Word. The church must rebuke this behavior or fall to the whims of the world. God forbid.
Totally agree. Turning the church into a circus is showing disrepecte to God and all the parishioners.
The church has always been a circus. Their clown uniforms are just white and brimmed with gold. Your church leaves nothing but wilderness in its wake, it just grows from the blood and ashes left behind your lynch mobs. Then when all the perceived outside threats are taken care of, your lot turn on each other, eventually burning down the church your predecessors built. Don’t believe me? Catholics did it non Catholics. Protestants did it to Catholics and non Protestants. How many schisms of thought have lead to new denominations, claiming truth and light, in the last 2000 years? Millions have died because your lots insanity. All claiming they’re the true servants of Christ while everyone else are servants of Satan. How many times does this cycle have to repeat before you fools get a clue?
In case you were confused, I support guests who have sermons which are in accordance with the teachings of love and compassion. Having a person who is in drag is a great example of showing that the heart is not dependent on the clothes, and also that we must be more accepting of others in their brief walk on the Earth. This person was demonstrating and, at the same time, helping others to expand their consciousness that we are ALL children of God. Kudos to this wonderful Methodist church and this pastor who really understands the Jesus Way.
Turning your service into a circus is showing nothing more than how desperate you are for attention.
Loving other people has never meant loving and accepting everything that they do or else the same "love" that tells you that it is "right" to accept cross dressing would also mean that it is "right" to accept Islamic terrorists, Nazis, Klansmen, rapists, child molesters, domestic abusers, bank robbers, serial killers, cheaters on income tax, adulterers, cyber bullies and in person bullies, and any other rotten thing that anyone wants to do and that there is nothing wrong anymore! You don't even practice your belief that nothing that anyone does is wrong when you complain about people's "intolerance" and unacceptance of others". There are just some things that are wrong to do and it is love to tell those doing those things that they are wrong to do them. Not all wrong things are physically violent or harmful or cheating on taxes or on school exams or telling lies wouldn't be wrong, which they are, and some things are wrong because they give a bad example or hold up a wrong example as "right". Holding up cross dressing as "right" is a wrong, no matter how many people say that it is "right" because actual right and truth aren't decided by popular opinion. It is love to warn people against what is wrong, such as telling people, other than fire fighters, not to go into a burning building, and it wouldn't be love to not care if they walked into that building or warn them not to do that. It is also love to warn young impressionable people and children against being influenced by cross dressers into following their example and not love to not care if children are exposed to that bad example and just accept that as "natural" and "normal". "Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect" (Romans 12:2). Going along with the world or your corner of the world that cross dressing is "right" is conforming to the world, which this Scripture verse and other verses in Scripture tell us not to do.
Oh can it, Parsons. Your right wing Christian nonsense is just bigoted paper shield for you gross beliefs. Your goddamn Bible is a product of the world, a product of man. A grouping of recycled and reused ideas that have grown ever so stale. Your right wing rhetoric has to the spilling of blood of the innocent and created many literal hell on earth scenarios, all because you’ve stared into fires of your own hatred for too long. Your lot love to pervert children into murder machines and birthing pods for murder machines. You’re a walking corpse that has so many shards of broken glass in it you’re practically a monster.
Robert James Ruhnke, you are always talking hate, condemnation, bigotry against, and unforgiveness of Christianity, which is seen by every honest person here who reads your posts, even if you have so deceived yourself that you think that you are "just being reasonable, loving, honest, and fair-minded toward Christianity", as many other people deceive themselves, too, about their objects of hate. Even the Nazis and Klansmen believe that they "aren't hateful, but just reasonable and honest about black people, Jews, and Catholics, and are just for white people and not against black people or Jews or others". There is nothing that people can't rationalize and "justify" to themselves. You aren't able to see and admit your bigotry and hate against Christianity because you are too indoctrinated and enmeshed in it to be able to see it objectively and so it is up to other people who can view it objectively to see it and tell you the truth about that. If you really think that looking through your s**t covered glasses makes you see Christianity or anything else more clearly, try following suit with that idea and smearing mud all over your car windshield and back window of your car and driving down the road that way without using your windshield wipers to clean your window or smearing mud on your glasses, if you wear any, and see how well you can walk around with dirty eyeglasses. Just like you need you need a clean windshield and clean eyeglasses to drive down the road and walk around, so you need to remove the hate and unforgiveness and bigotry from your mind and heart and sight to see clearly the truth of Christianity and God, since they obstruct your seeing those things clearly. Hate, unforgiveness, and bigotry don't make you see clearly, anymore than they do that for Nazis, Klansmen or any other haters. Just like alcoholics have to admit that they have a problem with alcohol before they can try to fight against that problem for the rest of their lives, so you and other haters have to admit that you have a problem with hate, unforgiveness, and bigotry before you can try to fight against those problems for the rest of your lives. There should be a group called Haters and Bigots Anonymous for people who have problems in those areas and need help in coming out of them and Twelve Step Programs for that purpose. There should be interventions by people who care about you ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️, as there are for people in cults and with other problems, to help you come out of all that. Yes, many people who have called themselves "Christians" have done many rotten things because they weren't actually following the teachings of Jesus Christ, but don't hate and blame and refuse to forgive all of Christianity for the actions of those who weren't even following Jesus'teachings. That is the same bigotry of those who hate all black or white or other people because of the actions of a few or even very many of them, but not all of them. You don't want to be hated because of the actions of other people with your same skin color or because of a few mistakes of your own. So, it is just as wrong to hate all Christianity because of the wrong actions of many people who made mistakes or wrongly considered themselves "Christians". Love your neighbor as yourself, do unto others as you would have others do unto you, forgive or you will not be forgiven, and Inasmuch as you have done it into one of the least of these, my brethren, you have done it unto me is the thinking and practice of actual Christians, and none who aren't doing that consistently are actual Christians, no matter how much they say that they are. By their fruits, you will know them----not by what they say that they are doing or say that they are. This will probably not make any sense to you, but, hopefully, God will use it to try to open your mind through this and other words about love to you to His truth.
You will find that, John Partin, is beyond help. He is too deeply ingrained with his indoctrination. He means well, but he’s lost within his dream world of his mythical god. Just look at the length he goes to in his lonnnnng posts in a vain attempt to convince himself that’s he’s on the right track. I doubt anyone reads them, apart from himself. We wish him well…..bless him.
Since you admitted to having only a 2nd grade reading level and being learning disabled, and have early dementia, and are so indoctrinated in your atheism, it is more understandable why you aren't even trying to read those books that I told you about, which would blow your atheism right out of the water, and constantly deflect back to a question that has already been explained to you many times over and which you keep childishly forgetting. We will try not to overtax your very limited "comprehension" with any sentence longer than "if" from now on and only talk to the other few adults here and leave you to your childish games and playing with your toys!! You never have anything worthwhile to say, anyway, and so can't understand anyone's, such as myself, ever having something very important to say here and "think" that we are "just trying to convince ourselves". Poor confused little Cowardly Heartless "Lion"!! Thank goodness nobody reads your posts, except to laugh at them and expose their idiocy, and so you won't be spreading your idiocy to anyone else here and those idiots here will have to be content with their own idiocy!! Go to bed, little boy, and leave the adults here to our conversation, which is way over your head!!
I see the children’s hospitals haven’t been emptied yet, John, as a result of your prayers. Get back with me when they do. I might then give you some credibility. Until then, you don’t have any.
You don't know anything about credibility because someone, such as yourself, who is too afraid to read any books contradicting your atheism and exposing it to be a lie, has any credibility. Any philosophy that you can only maintain by refusing to look at the evidence and points refuting it isn't worth the trouble of having and is your admission that atheism isn't true and is just a house of cards that falls apart when any evidence or points prove it to be wrong and is kept around only by people's closing their eyes, ears, and minds to the evidence all around us contradicting it. Nobody, such as yourself, who constantly deflects to a question that was already answered many times over to avoid considering the answer has any credibility!! Nobody who is evasive, game playing, and pretentious, such as yourself, has any credibility because credible people don't resort or need to resort to such tactics. First, become credible yourself before telling me or anyone else to become credible and learn what credibility actually means and how it is practiced. Right now, you are just a hypocrite, telling me to become credible, even if I weren't so already, while you aren't even credible yourself. First, remove the beam from your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
And you don’t know anything about morality. The loving fictional butcher you worship isn’t fit to clean my shoes.
Are children still in Hospital, John? I’ll read your fictional books when your prayers have been answered, and all the children are home safe and well. In the meantime, your books are obviously not even worth cleaning my shoes with.
It is you who don't know anything about morality or credibility or many other things and merely deflect that charge on to me and other people here and in the world and that you know in your life and evade, as you always do, in order to take the attention off yourself again. The proof that you don't know anything about morality is that you believe any rotten thing that was merely attributed to God and put into His mouth, because it supports your bigotry against God, when you wouldn't want rotten things that you were accused of doing or saying to be believed by other people about you and you even get into legal or social trouble with friends and family over that. But you don't mind believing rotten things about God and applying a different standard to Him than you apply to yourself. That is a double standard and a violation of the Golden Rule of doing unto others as you would have others do unto you, which proves that you don't know anything about morality or practice it if you do know, and is the same for you as if you didn't know. You contradict yourself, which is hypocrisy and more proof that you don't know anything about morality, by saying that a God whom you say "doesn't even exist" is still "a butcher", since, obviously, something that "doesn't exist" can't butcher anyone and that is a logical impossibility and a sin against logic and common sense. I don't worship the fictional character that some Bible writers made up after their own image, which is idolatry, but the real God that is far above any stories made up about Him by those Bible writers to make Him the sanction for their own views and say and support whatever they wanted Him to say and do, and those two are no more synonymous than the real people mentioned in the tabloids are synonymous with the stories made up about them. Should people here and that you know and in the world believe everything that anyone wants to make up about you?!! If not, then don't apply that immoral standard to God, either, and do unto Him as you would have others do unto you and show that you know what is morality, instead of, as you are doing now, showing that you don't. That you, of all people, should say that I or other people "don't know anything about morality" is really the biggest joke in the world, considering your own support for the most immoral man ever to wrongly occupy the White House, Trumpelstiltskin, which proves that it is YOU!!! who doesn't know anything about morality, since nobody who knew about morality would have supported that man and the corrupt and hypnotized and brainwashed Republican Party that supports him and still be supporting someone such as that and such a political party. You prove that you don't know anything about morality by your only agreeing with the science or pseudoscience that goes along with your preconceived views and bigotry against God and Christianity, while saying that the books stating scientific facts that contradict your bigotry and preconceived views "aren't worth cleaning your shoes with", which is an immoral double standard!! You prove that you don't know anything about morality by your refusing to consider the answer to your question of why God doesn't heal all children in cancer hospitals (because He won't remove all consequences of our choosing to reject Him and going our own way, so that we can have our cake of sinning against God, while keeping it, too, with no consequences from that, which is unrealistic and unreasonable), and so that you can go on in your blind and unthinking hatred and blaming of God!! You prove that you don't know anything about morality by your not caring about the immigrants fleeing from gangs and violence in Central America to come here for asylum and not wanting any special consideration for them over other immigrants and saying that they "should just go back where they came from". That isn't loving your neighbor as yourself and doing unto others as you would have others do unto you, which is what a person who knows about morality would be doing and proof that you don't know anything about morality!! The list of your immoral thoughts, words, and actions goes on and on!!! Learn about morality yourself before you say that I "don't know about morality"or anyone else "doesn't know about morality". First, remove the beam from your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
It looks like another long post, John. I wonder if it contained the evidence that children’s hospitals are finally being emptied because of your prayers.
I’m betting it didn’t.
The evidence of our sinning against God as the reason for all children's not being healed of cancer is contained there, which you conveniently chose to ignore and evade again, as you always do. You also ignored and evaded the evidence of your immorality, which shows that you are cowardly and don't know anything about morality. You know, as well as I know and everyone else here knows, that you don't actually have any basis or points here to support your views, and so all that you can do is ignore, evade, play games, and hide out behind all of that. Either actually respond to the evidence presented to you in my and other people's posts here or go and play your games by yourself in your bathroom (along with however else you play with yourself in there!), and leave this blog to those who actually respond to people's posts and have actual points to make of their own, which is the purpose of this blog. There are plenty of childrens sites and online Romper Rooms for you to hang out in without your wasting our time in here with your immaturity and any post longer than "if" being too much for you to understand or get through.
The only thing that’s hiding, John, is your mythical butcher of a God, plus your intelligence.
Still more of your deflection, evasion, hiding out, unintelligence, and believing in your myths and brainwashing and then trying to say that it is God and other people who are "hiding and unintelligent"!! Just your usual inversion of reality and the truth!! As I said, play with yourself in your confused mind and in your bathroom to your heart's content!!
Nope, not saying it’s god. How could I? Your god, nor anyone else’s, clearly don’t exist. Your fairy stories don’t wash with me. Wake up, John.
The whole universe isn't a fairy story and it didn't come up with and doesn't maintain and regulate itself, anymore than any other mindless thing can do that or a car drive itself around by itself without being remote controlled or computer programmed. I'm still waiting for your example of a self-driving car to show that mindless things can run and maintain themselves. Until then, they need a mind behind them to run and maintain them. Wake up and face reality, CHL!! You must not be playing with yourself enough and some of it is backing up into your brain and clouding that up even more than usual. Keep at your playtime longer and harder and clear more of that out of your head!!
At last, John, you’re right. The Universe isn’t a fairy story. Well done!
And we have no evidence mythical fairies, and mythical deities, created it.
Keep your brain on that tack. There’s hope for you yet.
What you didn't get again because your bigotry against God won't let you get it is that the universe is a mindless thing and so can't be performing mindful actions for itself. So, a Mind behind the universe has to be doing the things for it that it can't do for itself. You don't have to see God with your eyes in order to infer His existence from the evidence of a universe that couldn't do all of these things without a Mind behind it, just as you would infer a builder of a house even though you hadn't seen the house built. So, follow suit with the universe as the work of God and stop playing more of your games and trying to claim "victories" that you haven't won and can't win or that "I'm coming over to your stupid 'thinking'", and deluding yourself still in that way!! Get on the right track of Godly thinking and there may be hope even for something like you yet.
If you are the supposed example of godly, thinking, I feel very sorry for the God that you believe in.
Are there any children’s hospitals emptied yet, John? Get back with me when they are.
If I was an omnipotent god, I would have emptied them by now. Clearly, my morals are better than your mythical god.🤭
Your so-called "morals" aren't even better than other human beings' morals or my morals are, since I don't believe in or practice evasiveness, game playing, backbiting, pretentiousness, and deceitfulness, as you do, among many other sins. Your "morals" are closer to Satan's and so, obviously, not superior to God's or my morals, even if you have deluded yourself, as usual, that they are!! I guarantee you that you wouldn't be constantly cleaning up everyone's messes and not demanding that they take some responsibility for their own actions and face the consequences of their actions if you were in God's place (what a horrible thought!!) and healing all cases of cancer in the world and let us all go on sinning without any consequences for all that, since you don't even do that for everyone in your life right now!! Unless you are a schmuck out of this world!! So, don't tell me that you would do that for the 8 billion people in this world because that isn't going to fly with me or anyone else who knows you!! Your own wife and family don't even believe that you would do that, if you were in God's place!! So, don't tell us that BS!! God does as much as He can to help people, while they are still going on with their sinning against Him and rejection of Him, but He can't eliminate all the consequences of all that sinning and rejection of Him, anymore than you or anyone else could, no matter what you say here to "justify" yourself and try to convince yourself that you are "morally superior to God", which is laughable and stupid for you to say!! Godly thinking isn't shown by all sugar and spice and everything nice speaking to people, since Jesus also spoke very roughly to the scribes and Pharisees and the moneychangers in the temple, in order to wake them up, which is why I'm speaking very roughly to you, and so what wasn't unloving or a violation of Godly thinking even for Jesus is even less unloving or a violation of Godly thinking for me. Tough love is also in line with Godly thinking
Don’t worry, John, I’m sure your god is helping players score goals, or helping people to pass their driving test, or exams. It’ll perhaps get around to sick children one day. One can but hope…..right, John?
Please leave the sick and cancerous children alone, even if you were able to do anything for them, since you would only make them much worse!! Nobody can pray to you for any children's healings and get any healings for them, but people have prayed to God for their healing and some have been healed, as you could discover for yourself online, if you weren't too cowardly to look them up, which you are. And so you don't look up those examples because they would shake up your little world and destroy your atheism. He won't eliminate all consequences of our sinning against Him and rejection of Him, but He will help us as much as our disobedience to God lets Him do, which is far more than what you can do for children or anyone else!!
God isn't helping players to score goals or people to pass driving tests or exams or other relative trivialities anywhere near as often as He is healing and helping sick children and other people with medical problems. God healed a woman through the prayers of St. Padre Pio of cancer inflicted on her by the Nazis in their medical experiments on her, as shown in the movie John Paul II with John Voight. But you would have to get up off your behind and go actually look up these examples of His healings online, in Lourdes and other miraculous healing sites and in hospitals, which have verified miracles, and not go on being too cowardly and lazy to look them up!!! And that leaves you out, doesn't it, Cowardly Heartless "Lion"?!!
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John D. Partin, is that so? Last time I read my bible, many of those you list here as 'bad examples' were among the apostles of Jesus! How weird are things sometimes, isn't it?
If there could be a Judas Iscariot (the supreme bad example!!) among the disciples, of course, there can be lesser bad examples among the apostles and down through history to our day, but bad examples aren't the standard of Christianity and it can't be judged by them, but only by those who follow the teachings of Christ and are good examples.
I am under the assumption dressing in drag was a FUN ACTIVITY within the gay community. Drag shows were for entertainment and for many LGBT dressing in drag was sometimes a Halloween activity (which incidentally is Satanic holiday}. Is misappropriating a God given gender an insult to God's creative plan? If God doesn't make junk, why do LGBT's always assume there is a free-pass in ALL THEIRLIFE STYLE Activities? Are we all not submissive to God's will and expectations for eternal life? Are all gay activities sinless without Christian Spirituality? Tell me how will God judge?
Well said. You are correct of course. These so-called progressive, new world preachers will twist and pervert the word of God and church teachings to push some kind of woke Christian ideology to further their own agendas.
You fall for greed and war driven Christian narratives that have been preached since just after the crucifixion. You’re already a servant of blood, fire, and shadow, and you don’t even know it. You’ve been blinded by the light of false promises, therefore you can’t see it. The Gods don’t forgive such abominations.
Pervert the word of which god, Clerance? There are so many to choose from that mankind has created. I wonder if any of them are real? None of them seem to be omnipotent enough to prove all the others wrong 🤔
Kitten Butt, when it comes to gods, there are indeed many. I prefer the ones who mean what they say, and say what they mean. Not the ones who preach hate and call it love. Oh wait. That’s people who do that. Dang it.
Not a fan of religion but I see no harm in this. A message reminding us that we should attempt to remember we might have things a little better than some others and we should try to make the world a place where everyone can enjoy life.
If child abusers are permitted to preach, why not Drag Queens?
Which would be equating drag queens to child abusers?
You know there is a line of thought that says a lot of the permissive activity in this regard ("drag queen Story Time", some of the sexually explicit books found in junior highs and elementary schools) is related to desensitizing and"grooming" children in certain aspects.
I'm not really putting forth that argument here, I'm just saying that is the line of thought of some.
But I assume by your comment you're talking about the Catholic churche's sin of covering up for priests who sexually abused children.
The only possible answer to that is the old saying of, Two wrongs do not make a right.
According to Christian teachings each will eventually have to answer for how they lived their lives while calling themselves a Christian.
And while Christians are admonished against judging in the hypocritical way (through the often misconstrued Matthew 7:1 where people leave out the entire rest of the chapter that gives the first verse it's real meaning) they are absolutely called upon to recognize sin and speak against it and not participate in it.
But whether those or any other people calling themselves Christians are/were right will be determined by He who is the final arbitrator. But by then, if one has been wrong, it will be too late.
Rev. MichaelRS, the Watch Tower of the Christian organization with most child abusers. The Catholic Church is second.
I know we have to be open minded, but at some point i don't believe preacher's or minsters can be true to god and still bring all these factors to play, to have to have them attend church is one thing but preaching I don't condone as being proper. there has to be limitations or we are nothing but gathering places and houses of the lord.