It’s not every day that the vice president publicly ruminates on ancient brothels and child sacrifices.
At the pro-life rally March for Life earlier this month, Vice President JD Vance’s speech made a surprising detour into the macabre, leaning heavily on lurid imagery while claiming that Christianity ended cruel and barbaric child sacrifices practiced by pagans.
Vance relayed anecdotes about ancient brothels, a hidden cache of baby skeletons, and ancient Mayan sacrifices – and for a moment you might be forgiven if you thought you’d accidentally tuned into a true crime podcast, rather than an official speech from the vice president.
In his comments, Vance cast the abortion debate as a binary choice between God or the “barbarism” of paganism, a framing that left little room for nuance or historical complexity.
But not everyone agrees with the vice president… or even thinks he has his facts straight about ancient faith practices.
Vance Makes a Bold Historical Claim
“I read an article some time ago about classic archaeology,” said Vance at the January 23rd rally. “One particular piece of information has haunted me: that one of the telltale signs of an ancient brothel in the pagan world was that you’d always find a large number of baby skeletons nearby – a lot of baby skeletons; and those bones predominantly belonged to boys because, unlike little girls, those boys would be of no use to the future adults who were running those brothels.”
“From the skeletons in brothels to the child sacrifice of the Mayans, the mark of barbarism is that we treat babies like inconveniences to be discarded rather than the blessings to cherish that they are,” the VP continued. “Even those of us who aren’t particularly faithful, it’s a shocking thing to hear. But we remember that in the ancient pagan world, discarding children was routine.”
Vance then asked the audience, “whether we will remain a civilization under God or whether we ultimately return to the paganism that dominated the past.”
What Was He Talking About?
Vance appeared to be referencing the 2008 discovery of 97 infant skeletons in a mass grave in the UK, at the site where some archaeologists believe a Roman brothel was located some 1,800 years ago.
The archaeologist who initially discovered the skeletons, Dr Jill Eyers, first posited the brothel theory. Because infant boys would be of no use to a brothel's business, the theory goes, discarding them made sense as it was one less mouth to feed.
But other scholars aren’t convinced.
Brett Thorn, keeper of archaeology at the Buckinghamshire County Museum, disputes the brothel idea. "My main concern with the brothel theory is that it's just too far away from any major population centres. I'm just not convinced," he stated.
Thorn continued:
"There are a few significant religious objects from the site that indicate possible connections with a mother goddess cult. They may indicate that the site was a shrine and women went there to give birth, and get protection from the mother goddess during this dangerous time. The large number of babies who are buried there could be natural stillbirths, or children who died in labour."
A False Binary?
Critics pushed back on Vance’s view of Christianity swooping in to save children from the brutality of paganism. For one, they note, Christians have been party to widespread child abuse, neglect, and death themselves throughout history.
“Now do the mass graves of children at religious schools,” wrote one commenter. “As if this country wasn't founded by chattel slavers in order to sacrifice half a continent's entire human population ‘for God and Country’,” said another.
Others suggested that if Vance wanted to talk about dead infants, he could simply open his Bible.
Are Children Killed In the Bible?
The Bible contains numerous passages in which the killing of children is not only described, but at times commanded or condoned. From the slaughter of Egyptian firstborns in Exodus, to the destruction of entire cities (including women and children) in the books of Joshua and Samuel, child death is a recurring feature of biblical warfare narratives.
In 1 Samuel 15, God commands King Saul to kill “men and women, children and infants.” Elsewhere, the binding of Isaac is framed as a test of faith that requires a father’s willingness to sacrifice his own child.
While theologians have debated and contextualized these passages for centuries, their existence complicates any claim that Christianity represents a clean moral break from violence against children.
Black and White Morality
Vice President Vance’s statement not only draws a line in the sand between pro-life and pro-choice, but also through civilization and barbarism. For Vance, his beliefs – in Christianity, in the pro-life movement – are the modern and morally righteous way.
Abortion, by contrast, is a cruel, pagan practice from a primitive and heathen age, according to the vice president.
This framing draws sharp lines, painting a clear story of good and evil. It's also a story that the nation’s tens of millions of pro-choice Christians (and roughly one million pagans) are likely to disagree with.
As any scholar can tell you, history can rarely be put into such tidy moral categories.
What is your reaction?
167 comments
-
Peyton Thomas Lapato
As a humanitarian and omnist with a heavy focus on Buddhism, every major religion and people—regardless of era—knew violence; no population today has escaped horrible acts. Of mainstream faiths, the top 3 for fatalities are Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism (though my own isn't innocent). If 'let him who is without sin cast the first stone' (John 8:7), then let the religion without sin cast the first stone."
-
Jannetje Eleanore Van Went
Let's remind JD Vance, in Canada we have multiple residential schools brought here by the churches and Christian religions not only ran them but controlled the indigenous people right out of their natural lives.
There are so many unmarked graves of children here we are still uncovering them today, it's we have horrible stories of young children not just surviving residential housing, but watching their friends and family trying to escape and return to their parents and where shot like animals in the school yard and beyond, left there, no proper burials or peaceful ritual to allow them to move past this world cold hearts, steel and bullets.
The nerve that he would take issues from barbaric 100,000 year histories and try to use this as evidence against people when the Christian massacres were 500-200 years ago and still his attitude says they still exist today and threaten our people with extinction, those children and people were peaceful.
This JD Vance is one of those Christians that weekend at Bernie's Jesus, he makes good Christians have to carry the weight of ugly ideology, I pray to God every day, Christians clean up their membership of these blasphemers so we can see the truth in Christian and not have that ugly comparison of what a person like JD Vance can do to destroy the uniquely blessed position of a spiritual cause like Christianity.
Every monotheistic faith has a process to ensure they know a person is a true follower of the faith, except Christian... anyone can raise a hand and claim Christian, this has left this poor god fearing religion to cult and other wayward inclusion like JD Vance, corporate and political leadership, that sees using the power of their good faith in this awful way...
I beg the Christian faith practitioners to clean up your membership, you do not deserve to fall for this type of misuse of a great spiritual guidance.
With great power comes great responsibility, too many times Christianity has fallen into the hands of the wrong practitioners.
For the sake of humanity, please see to the sanitation of the Christian membership in Jesus's name.
-
Rev. Kev
It's true that anyone can claim to be a Christian. But that doesn't make them a Christian. There are those who cherry pick the New Testament to say all they need to do is say some prayer at an altar call and they are saved. Poof! It's all done.
Except the Bible says that people will be judged for what they actually do in this life. Treating others with kindness and compassion. Ye Olde Golden Rule. Taking care of the widows, orphans, and the poor. Treating the sick and infirm. Following the model of the Good Samaritan. Paul writes about collecting food and clothes each week to give to the poor and needy. Christianity started out as an active faith.
Just being decent, civil, caring, empathetic people who ask for nothing in return is, in my opinion, the best way to make the world a better, friendlier place with no need for endless preaching. Honest, consistent acts always speak louder than words.
Those calling themselves Christians but don't act like it will be the ones on the wide road. The ones to whom Jesus says, 'Get away from me. I never knew you.'
Or, in simpler terms, you will know them by their fruits.
As to wealthy people like Vance and his associates, the Bible says what the wealthy can do with the blessings they received:
1 Timothy 6:17-19 17 Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. 18 Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. 19 In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.
-
Michael Hunt
That's not entirely true, although I understand your sentiment. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman
-
Rev. Kev
Comment removed by user.
-
-
-
-
Nicholas A. Fici
Psalms 137: 9 "Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks" That pretty much encapsulates the entire Judeo-Christian tradition on infants as currently being exercised.
-
John P Maher
WHAT IS LEFT TO SAY EXCEPT " SHUT UP VANCE YOUR IGNORANCE is AS ENORMOUS as tRUMPs EGO 100 %
-
Kim W. Lyon
I am Pagan. I agree.
-
-
Rev. Miche'al Yosef Dixon
Now this is hypocrisy at its highest. The example he gives is an archaeology site of an old Roman controlled area and the United States of America is founded modeled after the Roman Empire. So, baby murder is just a day and the life in the Roman Empire/USA why are people shocked? However; There are only few significant religious objects from the site that indicate possible connections with a mother goddess who would never condon baby murder. They may indicate that the site was a shrine and women went there to give birth, and get protection from the mother goddess during this dangerous time. The large number of babies who are buried there could be natural stillbirths, or children who died in labour. The Bible contains numerous passages in which the killing of children is not only described, but at times commanded by God (YHWH) or done it Himself. From the slaughter of Egyptian firstborns in Exodus, to the destruction of entire cities (including women and children) in the books of Genesis, Joshua and Samuel, child death is a recurring feature of spiritual warfare narratives. As to the "Bothell" comparison in Nevada at least in 1989 last time I was in Vegas it was legal to be a prostitute as long as you had a states license and the state got their cut, Freelance prostitution is illegal.
-
Robert E Morgan
I like how this world can twist things around so others never know the truth.. President Trump has found the corruption that has been stealing from the taxpayers.. Y’all need to wake up because you are being used.. People getting rich off protesting against America.. The war is not against religion it’s against what’s the laws and rights of the taxpayers. Stop protesting and making the people rich they don’t care about you only the money. The laws were written for a reason let them in force the laws. Only evil keeps the hate going by using any means possible..
-
Patricia Ann Gross
Show me one protestor who is getting rich from protesting. You can't, because they don't exist. Nobody is paying them. If you believe that, you should be able to produce a money trail.
Yes, it is a war against the taxpayers about the rights the government are ignoring as they "blitz" cities. The fight is against those who are breaking the laws written into the Constitution about due process and probable cause.
-
Rev. Kev
You wrote: "Y’all need to wake up because you are being used."
I have no idea if you are being sincere or not. If you are, that phrase is exceedingly ironic given the rest of your comment.
-
-
Religion as a Weapon is Wrong
Vance changed his name, his religion, his sexuality and his political views multiple times. He is as squishy as jello. I would like to see modern culture find new ways to get along and stop looking at Holy books to form a society. It's too easy to pick through whatever pleases you and ignore the rest.
-
Marie Gilbert
JD Vance has changed his name four times. I will repeat. JD Vance has changed his name four times. No matter how many times a snake sheds its skin. It is still a snake. Jesus's command to his apostles was to spread the news, but if it was refused...to walk away. Jesus never said to conquer nations or peoples. Jesus never said to maliciously to force religion on people. Jesus was never about religion. He was about LOVE and helping us realize that humans had the power through Jesus to create heaven on earth. I have also noticed that JD Vance and Mike Johnson keep quoting the Old Testament. As so-called followers of Christ...we should only be following the words of Jesus, "Love God. Love your neighbor." That means love every other soul that is sharing this planet with us. Amen
-
Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
The ancient pagans had an ‘ability’ that we modern humans have lost. The ancients could look at a baby and determine if said infant would, as an adult, have a proclivity to have sex with inanimate objects, say a tree. Or for us modern humans, maybe a couch/sofa. If so, said infant’s brains would be dashed out upon a rock.
JD wouldn’t have made it, huh?
-
Billy Coley
The drag queen level makeup wearing fake hillbilly has shown that he is either clueless or lying about most things,but his ignorance of his supposed religion is the worst
-
Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Ancient Christians also murdered infants. And their mothers. They burned 2 yr old toddlers at the stake and LAUGHED while the children shrieked in agony calling them "witches". They hung newborns for being "born as changelings" just because the child was born with a deformity. You want to talk about evil?
There's no hate or cruelty like Christian "love". Even today you see it heavily, and it's horrific. The tortures children suffer at the hands of so called "good christian parents" do to their children "in the name of god" would give any sane person night-terrors!
-
Donald G Magel
Vance read a book? Right there I do not believe him.
-
Daniel Todd Kamm
Don't lose track of the issue here. The issue here is a Vice President of the United States with a mouth that is "fly," servicing a President whose mouth is "super fly" and I'm not talking about the man's zipper.
Here in Cincinnati Mr Vance is an embarrassment, and in the neighborhood he calls home, Walnut Hills, a "federal case... " aka a nuisance for anyone who has to live there or drive through there. Especially since they federally prosecuted a very mentally ill man last month after the guy threw rocks through the windows of the Vance home... as the man has done other homes in the city... because it's part of his mental illness...!
Vance's step brother ran for city council here last fall , picked up some political grease from Trump and Vance, and he went down in flames. Pesky things grease fires.
Speaking of flamers, lets get back to Mr Vance. I struggle whether to congratulate the family on the new child? I know love is love and we are all entitled to it in its myriad capacities and presentations. But there are just times I want to ask some women, (especially) and some men... especially apparently vibrant, intelligent, successful, and way more than the idiots they married: "?????"
Many years ago over dinner, an old colleague with whom I was still in touch commented on another colleague with whom I was still in touch (they were no longer in touch with one another) "Are you telling me she's going to have another child by that (insert your best guess here)?
I have the same feeling here.
Luckily, that situation led to nothing like child sacrifice... teenage drama, yes, but no one died no matter how tempted.
So now that Mr Vance is welcoming yet another child, and he is putting his (what, expertise?) out there regarding the past and how christianity has somehow saved children from irreparable harm... I have no use for the man. I bless his wife and the child they are expecting.
But that child will be sacrificed as their other children have already been sacrificed: just in another way: politics... power... the perversions that can accompany these and eventually public humiliation once history catches up with them....
Sad.
-
Robert E Morgan
The hate that is in your heart should be removed. You should be proud to have a great President Trump and Vice President Vance. They are fighting for all Americans and the corruption that’s been stealing from the American taxpayers for years. The American people voted them in office. They are doing what has been asked to do. No one is perfect in this world. But it doesn’t help to keep hate in your heart!! The Lord is watching you..
-
Michael Hunt
Where's my DOGE check then from all the corruption and fraud that they stopped? Why are we in a K shaped economy where the wealthiest are getting wealthier and the poor are getting poorer? Why does this administration continue to boldly lie to our face even when there is significant evidence that contradicts their lies? Why are they slow walking the release of the Epstein files?
They're not fighting for all Americans, they're fighting to maintain power for their rich and powerful friends at the expense of the average American.
-
-
-
Johnny Dale Crawley
JFK,JR has nothing to to with the measles outbreak. Could it be all these millions of unvaccinated illegal aliens invading our country?
-
Michael Hunt
Wait, are you being serious here?
First of all, it's Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and he's made a career out of pushing anti-vaccine propaganda and as Director of HHS, he's continued his anti-vax crusade, making vaccines less accessible and sowing doubt in the efficacy and safety of vaccines. He's absolutely played a role in the outbreak due to his actions when this outbreak is directly tied to the unvaccinated spreading measles.
Second, positing a loaded question to suggest that "unvaccinated illegal aliens" are the cause of the measles outbreak throughout conservative states without any supporting evidence is just anti-immigrant xenophobia.
-
ServantOfJudgement
Yes Johnny. A sudden influx of 10s of millions of unvaccinated humans injected into a population of vaccinated humans will logically cause an outbreak of several illnesses. First to the unvaccinated or poorly vaccinated then to others once the bug mutates.
It's why we need borders and have a good immigration policy with the teeth to enforce it.
What you've said is so incredibly and unbelievably obvious it's absurd to deny it.
Bonus Round.
Whycome leftists wanted anti COVID vaxers dead but don't care about 20,000,000 unvaccinated breaking into the country?
Why? Oh, if you could see the smile on my face right now. Why guys? Why?
-
Michael Hunt
Leftists didn't want COVID anti-vaxers to die. They literally wanted them to get vaccinated to prevent deaths.
Please provide any evidence that 1) 20,000,000 undocumented immigrants have broken into our country and 2) that they are all unvaccinated. Studies I have found suggest they are vaccinated at the same rate as US citizens.
https://www.uclahealth.org/news/release/undocumented-latinx-patients-got-covid-19-vaccine-same-rate
-
-
-
Johnny Dale Crawley
After experiencing the Philippines and Korea in the seventies, small agrarian groups sacrificed (sold) their girls to brothels because girls were an extra mouth to feed. Boys could start work in fields very young. A.lot of this history can be boiled down to economics. The winner gets to dictate the history.
-
Cameron Lewis
Can we just call him a moran and be done with it? Nuff said
-
Stephen A. Cunningham
Is the Universal Life Church a place for Christians or just for very extreme political ideologists?!?
-
Michael Hunt
It's a place for those of every faith, united under the belief that we are all children of the same universe.
-
Donald G Magel
Even Humanists are welcome.
-
-
-
James Sermoner
Oh please!! It's certainly clear that the vice president is a prideful Christian Nationalist for spewing such racist and inflammatory remarks toward indigenous cultures. Mr Vance, is nothing than an ignorant stooge playing frontman for the Heritage Foundation. I wish I had a nickel for every time I've read a newspaper or listen to a radio program describing the horrific crimes against children at the hands of their Christian parents, who have sacrificed their children over the years. And always stating at the time, that they were compelled to because evil had possessed the child. And were instructed by God to sacrifice them.
-
Lawyer John
As usual, Vance is cherry picking historical facts and out right lying to advance his political and religious agenda.
-
Rev. Donut
Mostly (see how I did not use "all" or "none" ) lazy, stupid, ignorant, self-centered women are for aborting the unborn. As are the very smart, greed driven Big Health. There's big money in that.
There's no money in condoms unless it's a couple of rolled up $100 bills or something else in them for "safe keeping" if the boat tips over.
-
Amy Varela
Your comment is mostly (see how I did not use "completely" or "not at all") based on the lies and stupidity of the far right, allegedly pro-life crowd.
Perhaps if lazy, stupid, ignorant, self-centered men would use condoms correctly and all the time, there would only be abortions in the case of the woman's life being in danger. Then again, several women have died because they couldn't get an abortion in their state.
Have the life for which you voted.
-
-
Ari Joseph Bertine
Vance is following the playback, and this was just the next minority group available to demonize and make scary, to distract citizens from what the administration is plundering. Vance wouldn't know an honest belief in anything if it bit him on the nose, everything he says and does is in the pursuit of money and power. If it becomes more lucrative to attack Christians, they will join the unpopular groups on the chopping block. Vance is simply a face man for the con.
-
Rev. Donut
Quick and up front, I tend to agree with VP Vance 98%.
That's called shading. So if it breaks the other way, I'm covered.
That Thorn dude has no idea why that incident happened. He's just flapping his gums. He uses the words, "could", "may" and "possible"
Those are words used to hedge your statement and make it easier to deny later.
He doesn't know.
Neither do I and neither does anyone that was not there.
-
Clifford Boyce Heyde
JD Vance does not know what he is talking about. He has his head so far up Trump's butt, he can't think for himself anymore and is constantly pushing his agenda. This is a country that was founded on the freedom of religion and NOT a Christian Nationalist Theocracy. As far as abortion goes, a woman's body is HER business to deal with as she sees fit, whether you agree with her choice or not ... SHE should have the freedom to choose (unfortunately, she doesn't, anymore). The world goes in cycles and those of you who do not see are going to get blindsided ... take care everyone and Blessed Be !!!
-
Joshua Sarozek
Why would boys be of no use in a brothel!? Do you think homosexuality/bisexuality is new, or that people didn’t act on it in the past!? Especially in a world where sexuality was largely a function of power and not “love”, much less ideology/identity. Even if we could accept the argument, why wouldn’t boys be sent to the legions, which were always in need of flesh!?
To the deputy führer’s other point, that christianity saved the western world, the church spent, almost, its first thousand years attempting to destroy all that upon which the modern world is built. The math, sciences, etc that led to the Renaissance (made necessary by christian actions) and, through it, the modern age, was all preserved in the East by Islam and brought back at the time of the crusades.
-
JT Sunrise
Vance’s deception and rhetoric painting pagans as child-killers while championing a “civilization under God” rings hollow when stacked against his administration’s real-world actions. Sure, he’s decrying ancient “barbarism,” but what about the modern fallout from Trump, Musk, and DOGE’s ruthless cuts to child aid? Domestically, slashing Medicaid, Head Start, and SNAP by billions now lead to 160,000+ avoidable child deaths annually from poverty and untreated illnesses, per medical journals. Globally, dismantling USAID has halted life-saving programs for millions of kids, with estimates of 200,000-700,000 extra under-5 deaths in 2025 alone from halted vaccines and nutrition aid—rising to millions by 2030, according to Oxfam and The Lancet. This isn’t pro-life; it’s pro-fetus at the expense of the born. As a ULC minister, I believe true spirituality demands compassion for all life stages, not selective morality that ignores hypocrisy. History shows no faith is blameless—let’s focus on healing, not dividing. Peace and light to all paths. Rev. JT Sunrise
-
Penny Prentice-Best
As has been stated by others here, Christianity has created its own trail of tears and atrocities. There is a serious disconnect when some who claim to speak as Christians, cry loudly about the death of unborn or newly born infants and at the same time feel justified in removing support for health care, child care, early education, school meals, food assistance, housing assistance, and just about any program that might contribute to more stable and healthy families and better childhood experiences. The core of every major spiritual practice is Love, Compassion, and Community. Do unto others as you would have it done unto you. Everything else is an add on created by our human ego needs. When ego is in service to Spirit it feels Loving and Abundant. Ego disconnected from Divine Spirit becomes fearful, judgmental, critical, controlling, self-absorbed. When we live in Love, Compassion, and Community, we can create solutions to our challenges that respect all people and the planet we live on. Without those foundations we fall into greed, fear, control, and conflict. Our Creator has given us the power to choose. We also get to live with the results of those choices. This is a time to look at results and to make new choices.
-
Rev. Kev
IMO outspoken, self-righteous "Christians" in modern American politics are simply playing Christian on TV. It rallies the religious base who think "Christian" automatically means good and trustworthy. Authoritarian regimes across history have adopted Christianity as a valuable tool to suppress and control a population. The Bible supports blind obedience to authoritarian leader as being put in their position by God. They are doing the will of God, and are to be followed just as the God in charge of it all is to be followed without question (Romans 13:1-5).
A great example of this can be found in Russia. Putin supports the Russian Orthodox Church. He builds churches. He attends the Divine Liturgy and various holy day rituals. His war against Ukraine has been framed as a Holy War by the Russian Patriarch, which gives an added sense of righteousness to those who fight at the front and the families who attend the funerals of those who pass on from the conflict. Putin's actions lead me to question the veracity of his claimed faith (you will know them by their fruits). But there is no doubt it serves a political utility. Something I am certain most of the so-called Christian leaders in the U.S. wish to employ.
-
John Nelson Keeter
Vance, is turning out to be, every bit as mentally unstable as Trump.
-
David Webb
Abortion is modern day child sacrifice - the sacrifice of a child to the god of self.
-
Rev. Dr. Robert Allan Roush
This flies in the face of "freedom of religion". Demonizing practitioners of a religion for political gain is nothing new. Why would he equate an indigenous religion of a specific time with Paganism? The Christian Nationalists are the masters of us vs. them and they draw lines in every arena the can. Vance is a Catholic, and his church has chastised him, now repeatedly, for his stands on many issues such as immigration. You don't have to create a special religious enemy to be against abortion. It's absurd.
-
Ari Joseph Bertine
It's just next on the list. Immigrants, check. Transgendered people, check. Religious minority they can make scary, go time. This is just part of the standard "make up threats so the patties won't look at us while we rob them blind" routine.
-
-
Jeffery D. Sanders
I think it may be important to find common ground in these discussions. So I would ask: Can we agree Children have value? Can we agree ALL 'religions' have atrocities to their names? *** Let me define religion for this context: Religion = Performing via works for acceptance what one already has been given freely through grace. (IE: Appeasement.) Why is this definition important? Virtually every religion believes in a deity they must please through their own efforts/"sacrifices". Yes, even much of our western christian denominations. Earning 'gods' acceptance... Could this underlying current be at the heart of most all conflict? If, during the crusades, as many like to point out, the crusaders thought it was right and pleasing to god to kill the "unbelievers", were they not 'performing to try and please God' (He was NOT pleased!)? Take this performance piece out and what's left?? What if I can love you "as myself" because I know don't have to perform to be accepted and loved, therefore I do not require you to perform "correctly"? What if we're both "in" (Love)? It's interested that Jesus is quoted as warning his followers to be aware of the "leaven of Herod (Politics) and the leaven of the Pharisees (religion)". We can see throughout history that when these 2 are mixed together there is a ton of ugliness and why it seems our founders did not want politics to force their choice "religion" upon the populous. But what if we are all already excepted and loved not for what we do but for simply who we are. Might it be easier to then love others easier? Might our unborn be seen differently? Not as a burden but as an extension of Love? Can we agree there are great concepts out there that would play out well if "performance" was not a driving force? Heck, it seems much of our disagreements stem for someone not performing according to OUR standards. What if there was a God out there who does not require performance for His acceptance? What if we felt fully accepted and "performed" FROM that acceptance not FOR it? What if there was a God who actually loved... UN- conditionally?? Might this change our politics? Lastly, there is a verse in scripture that seems to indicate we can only love others equally as we love ourselves. If true, then perhaps the lack of love we see out there stems from a lack of SELF love being projected onto others because we can't ever "perform" well enough (In our own minds)??? As the saying goes "Hurting people hurt people". Peace, Love and Joy to you all!
-
John Robert Peters
I won't comment on Vance. However I will say that reading his nonsense and many of the comments here, I am sure we need to load large doses of Zyprexa and Prozac into our reservoirs to properly medicate the out of control population. May God Help Us
-
Wallace da Silva Santiago
verdade o que ele diz...
-
Howard Chivon Walker
You wrote, “ I put zero stock in the words of people go double talk. I also do not place all my views on the words of people who omit facts to attempt to prove a point.”
However. That is precisely what you’ve done in your post here. Therefore how can you expect anyone to put any “stock” in what you’ve said?
It is simply NOT true that “ “Christians” are responsible for more deaths of all humans than pagans ever were.” The historical facts are that Christians have only existed on the planet for a little over 2,000 years.
Pagans basically for all of human history. The “deaths” unlearned people like yourself lay at the feet of Christians occurred for thousands of years BEFORE Jesus Christ was born an people first dubbed his followers “Christ-ins” (as a pejorative) in Antioc.
It is not even possible for your assertion to be fact. It’s only an under-educated opinion, at best. If you are going to claim “truly studied” you must study more than what CRITICS believe.
-
Thomas J Kasprik
I was Pagan before he changed his name
-
Walter Abington
I pray everyday and God has yet to mention Vance’s name.
-
Stephen R Smith
AMEN
-
-
Jennie LeDeaux
If history is truly studied “Christians” are responsible for more deaths of all humans than pagans ever were. You also can’t say children are gifts from God and then treat them as this administration does and cut every form of help and support and attempt to change laws to do them more harm and do nothing to protect them from the predators who seek to harm them.
I put zero stock in the words of people go double talk. I also do not place all my views on the words of people who omit facts to attempt to prove a point. I do not believe that what is currently happening is being looked on favorably by the God or Jesus I know. These are man created ideas and beliefs used to justify cruelty and evil.
-
Elizabeth Ann Miller
thank you for your comment
-
Rev. Donut
Yeah.
I think Jesus recognized and supported borders.
Otherwise there would not be references of so and so left Blahsvill and traveled across the desert to Happy Town. It would just be one big "Place" Like, he left the plains area and traveled to the mountain area.
I doubt he would have supported slaughtering the unborn.
Aren't babies in the sprit and likeness of Jesus?You can't prove me wrong. You can only point out something printed in red in the bible. Something someone else wrote long after the fact.
-
Rev. BH
Donut, What on earth are you talking about?
-
ServantOfJudgement
Rev Donut is exposing the uncomfortable truth Rev BH.
Israel is in a very tiny basket of nations that have documented their border and can still talk about it thousands of years later. Jesus drew that line friend, their line. God did if you prefer. Either way is just as good. While man rules man, Jesus says man needs borders. He's straight right too, is he not?
When Rev Donut mentioned slaughtering the unborn, you can take that as literal. He doubts Jesus The Christ would support slaughtering the unborn. I'm inclined to agree. When Jesus said we better not hurt the little ones, I bet he was about as sober as you could get. That's what Rev Donut was getting at. That's what he was talking about. Why don't conservatives buy into "why illegal minors getting ice deported since they care about children" trauma from leftists? Because all all's y'all's don't mind cutting them out in the first place.
-
Rev. BH
OK, I got it. To sum up: Jesus (or god) drew borders thousands of years ago. He was "sober". Illegal minors are getting deported by ICE to save them from leftists. Thanks for clarifying.
-
Patricia Ann Gross
History was written and lines were drawn by those who conquered (a neat little factoid they don't teach in schools and why DJT is trying so hard to erase any historical artifact that shows a dark truth within our own history along with anything that puts him personally in anything other than GOAT.)
-
-
-
-
-
Joseph S Worley
I actively am disgusted by the entire government and organized religion right now of course they are trying to erase and change history to suit their narrative, fragile mostly white males have always done this.
-
Dr. Ronald J. Tuman
These comments are getting as bad as Facebook!
-
Jeffery D. Sanders
Tru dat.
Can we only UN-conditionally love those who we agree with??? If that were true, I would have divorced my own children years ago. :)
-
-
Rev Ned
Belief in the “God” that Christians, Jews, and Muslims worship has been the justification for the slaughter of millions of human beings throughout history. The Crusades?!? It is an ongoing thing today. The Gaza genocide or ISIS for examples.
-
Mary E Otahal
You should read through the Pew Research, which will honestly answer your question.
-
Patricia Ann Gross
Then again, this guy would deny support to babies after they are born because they had the misfortune to have mothers who were impoverished, sick, or lost their job due to the economy in a downturn. He would cut off support for child care so the mother could work at a job that does not pay her enough to afford it and at the same time tell her she has to work in order to receive benefits.
What people don't seem to understand is that until people get paid a true living wage, poor people will need to be propped up somewhere. Ever hear the phrase "you have to spend money to make money?" Well, in today's economy there is no way to get there from here, especially if you were born into poverty. For someone with nothing, coming out high school or a trade school, it costs hundreds of dollars for transportation, wardrobe, and child care (if necessary) before you get to that first paycheck. This is why it is so hard to "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" in this counrty. That motto was conceived in a time and place when the people of this country looked out for each other, knew our neighbors, and l helped them where and when we could. We have lost that virtue completely. God help us all.
-
Mary E Otahal
Pro-life!? o.O Jesus was a literal healer, not a disease-spreading killer, pro-life. Vaccines work & Vaccines save lives! Please take your RFK genocidal monster and get out of our lives! How many children have now DIED from measles this year, pro-life? Washing your hands helps stop the spread but I guess you don't even have time for that, but you're soooo pro-life! Measles can KILL children. But oh, you're still in the fetus! Epstein Files!? What are you doing to protect life, pro-life?
-
Mary E Otahal
If you voted for Trump, you, too, are now an accessory to all his crimes. You are a kidnapping, human-trafficking, domestic terrorist. Who will ICE kill tomorrow, pro-life!? You can't even MASK UP, and Vaccinate, and you want to make me believe you're pro-life!? o.O You can't even take care of what you already have, yet you want more MORE MORE!? You are dysfunctional. DYSFUNCTIONAL MAGA! Gaza is a concentration camp, and they cry pro-life! And I'm a Vegan who eats COW! Where are the Epstein Files?
-
ServantOfJudgement
Mary,
Now that Trump has released the Epstein files we might find out why Joe Biden and Kamala Harris kept them locked up for 4 years.
I wonder who they were protecting. Why do think you and others ignored the files for so long? I really don't know, I'm asking in sincerity.
-
Patricia Ann Gross
It wasn't Biden and Harris, it was the judges and the courts.
-
Michael Hunt
I sure hope we also find out why the current administration has still not released all of the Epstein files despite a legal court order to do so. I mean, so many people in the administration called for the release of these files, only to back track and say there were no files and then flip again after Democrats in congress forced a vote on a resolution to force the release of the Epstein files.
I certainly do wonder why any administration would be protecting these predators.
-
Sir Lionheart
Now that Bill and Hillary have no choice but to testify, it will be interesting to see if we find any answers as to why Joe Biden didn’t release the Epstein files. There’s some very crazy stuff going on within the left. That party has totally fallen apart. I notice Jill Biden’s ex-husband has been charged with murder. What the hell is going on?
🦁❤️
-
Patricia Ann Gross
Is there an echo in here between you and SOJ? It wasn't Joe Biden, they were held up by a court order. That's the branch of government that DJT doesn't want to listen to.
-
-
-
Todd Leslie Miller
Wait. A vegan who eats cow? I thought vegans weren’t supposed to do that.
-
Patricia Ann Gross
Satire - she's illustrating the hypocracy of the "pro-life" right wing nut-cases.
-
-
-
Mary E Otahal
This isn't about Pagans, this is about controlling women! Controlling women, manipulating and gaslighting the left! It's the only pathetic leverage you've got, Republican MAGA! Gaslighting is psychological abuse, Vance! Love your neighbor as yourself. - Jesus, remember? I thought you claimed you are a Christian. This is not what Jesus would do MAGA!! You are going in the opposite direction in most of your actions. No, I'm not distracted. Epstein didn't kill himself, and release the Epstein Files!!
-
Peyton Thomas Lapato
Jesus wanted none of what most modern Christians believe, Jesus advocated love, acceptance and respect, he argued against hate, heresy and respected people from all walks of life whether they were prostitutes, gay or even pagan. Isn't it interesting that many Christians point to past Christians and the Bible as a way to spread things he actively was against? Jesus would hate what his teachings have become a way to spread hatred and exclusion. Modern Christians focus on what Christians after Jesus did and said, they forget Jesus taught unity, and brothership, while many after him used Christianity to control the masses, Christianity became the tool of kings and tyrants to persude the masses. This is something people forget, and by forgetting; the masses are truly lost.
-
-
Mary E Otahal
Time to BAN Viagra, because if pregnancy is "God"s will, then so is your limp d**k! - Bette Midler - Release the Epstein Files!!
-
Rev Ned
AGREED!!!
-
ServantOfJudgement
Sounds like Bette Midler hangs around creepy old dudes like Joe Biden. -Shes gross.
It's the young bucks putting buttered biscuits in the oven ladies....
-
Michael Hunt
"It's the young bucks putting buttered biscuits in the oven ladies...."
This sounds like a sad admission, SOJ.
-
-
-
Rev. BH
How did we get two such jerks arrives at the top of our government?
-
Sir Lionheart
Mainly because the two top Democrat jerks were seen to be what they are by most of the electorate, and so they were democratically booted out of office. We dodged a HUGE bullet there keeping word-salad-Harris from becoming President, along with her idiot cohort. We are so unburdened by what could have been. 😜
America is slowly cleaning up their mess and making America respected, and great, once again. This next three years is going to see J.D. Vance become the next President, followed by the death nell of the Democrat party, and rightly so. Does anyone know who its leader is yet? Anyone? 🤷
🦁❤️
-
Michael Hunt
Respected again by whom?
-
Sir Lionheart
Most of the electorate on November 5, 2024. This is what the electorate voted for. Three more years at least to go.
🦁❤️
-
Michael Hunt
Okay, but not by any of our foreign allies, gotcha.
Was America great during the era of Jim Crow laws or during the internment of Japanese-Americans during WW2, or has America only been great for the privileged few?
-
Sir Lionheart
That’s not true. Just some of the countries that do think favorable of the United States, according to PEW Research, are:
Hungary Poland UK South Korea Japan India Israel Nigeria Kenya South Africa Brazil Argentina Venezuela
Let’s hope many more will follow in the next 3 years.
I know you would love to think there are no countries that think favorably of the United States because that’s your bias and you will seek to find anything negative to support your narratives. You are very possibly desperate for this administration to fail badly, which is really sad when you come to think about it. Let’s all hope for those of us that are American citizens that we continue to grow and prosper. This next 3 years will determine whether it’s been successful or not.
🦁❤️
-
Michael Hunt
There may still be countries with favorable views of the US still, but the percentages of those with favorable views has dropped over the past year.
https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/americas-reputation-drops-across-the-world
This is likely due to the mostly negative reviews of Trump himself. Pew Research released a second article at the same time as yours showing a majority of nations lacking confidence in our President.
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2025/06/11/us-image-declines-in-many-nations-amid-low-confidence-in-trump/
-
Patricia Ann Gross
According to your Pew Research source posted yesterday: "A Year Into Trump’s Second Term, Americans’ Views of the Economy Remain Negative" with the cost of healthcare, food, and consumer goods the primary reasons. Some 70 percent polled on the negative side. If that is your idea of an electorate that is largely on the side of POTUS, you need to go back to math class.
https://www.pewresearch.org/
Of the G7 countries, only Japan gave the US a positive rating above 50 percent. This includes the people in the US's rating of the US. Only Germany had a worse perspective.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/06/11/how-people-in-the-us-and-other-g7-countries-view-each-other/
-
Michael Hunt
Additionally, I am by no means desperate for this administration to fail badly as that would generally be a detriment to the proper function of our country. I do hope they fail in their brutal and draconian deportation efforts and I hope they are voted out of office for failing to address affordability, but I would love to be wrong about my negative views of this administration and would love for them to address the needs of every day Americans but that does not seem to be a priority for this administration.
I hope that everyone on Earth can continue to grow and prosper, not just Americans; I don't subscribe to the nationalist tribalism that you do. Right now I don't have confidence in this administrations ability to achieve that.
Again, was America great during the era of Jim Crow laws or during the internment of Japanese-Americans during WW2, or has America only been great for the privileged few?
-
Patricia Ann Gross
Michael, the biggest problem with the adminstration to start failing, is that there is nobody in the "chain of command" that I feel comfortable with as taking the top spot. Certainly not the VP, House Speaker, Senate pro Temp, or any member of Trump's Cabinet. Some of them are scarier than DJT. If the House or Senate flips in the midterms, there might be some light there but not at this moment in time.
-
Sir Lionheart
There have been dark days in every countries history, and America is no exception, however, the USA has had some wonderful times and many of those times are definitely before the approval of puberty blockers, under-age girls of having their breasts removed, men playing in women’s sports, men dressing up in women’s clothes trying to pretend they are female, millions of American jobs being taken by illegal immigrants, citizens being proud to fly the American flag 🇺🇸 etc. Do you remember those days? Perhaps not if you are in support of all the above. 🤷
🦁❤️
-
Michael Hunt
Wonderful times for whom? Rich white men? People of color were regularly being denied the right to vote up until the Voting Rights Act of 1965, just barely 60 years ago. I'm willing to bet you were born before then so, within your lifetime, times were not wonderful for Black Americans.
And again with your UIDS claiming millions of American jobs are being taken by "illegal immigrants" despite there being a significant demand for the labor they provide. Since the Trump administration's aggressive deportation efforts, construction jobs in particular have been left vacant.
https://www.epi.org/publication/trumps-deportation-agenda-will-destroy-millions-of-jobs-both-immigrants-and-u-s-born-workers-would-suffer-job-losses-particularly-in-construction-and-child-care/
https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/mass-deportations-would-worsen-our-housing-crisis
Your anti-immigrant, pro-deportation agenda is going to negatively affect the US economy according to economists. Maybe it's time to listen to them before Trump tanks the economy.
-
Sir Lionheart
Nope! I’m not going that far back.
The current aggressive deportation of illegal aliens, even though it’s currently not as aggressive as other Presidents, is a lawful act of enforcing the immigration laws approved by congress for those who have entered this country illegally. I really am sorry you disagree with our current immigrations laws.
I am not anti-immigrant, I am very pro immigrant. We have immigration laws that I followed to gain legal access to living here in the US. Let’s hope that many of those who did not abide by our immigration laws, and volunteered to leave, no matter what the colour of their skin is, get the opportunity to go through the vetting process to eventually gain legal access to properly immigrate and become residents. Following our laws is how it should be done, Michael.
🦁❤️
-
Michael Hunt
Of course you're not going that far back, because if you did you'd have to acknowledge that America has not been great for all Americans. It's also not really that far back at all. Again, I bet you were born before the Voting Rights Act of 1965 was passed which means, in your lifetime, people of color have been treated as second class citizens in America.
This is by far, without a doubt, the most aggressive deportation campaign in modern American history. Yes, more people may have been deported under different administrations but no administration has been as violent and aggressive in their actions, nor has any administration put a 3000 detentions per day quota into their immigration policy before Trump.
I fully agree with you that laws should be followed, even though I disagree with the current laws and targeted restrictions we have on immigration. We are not debating that. It is the violent, reprehensible actions of immigration agents that are the problem. It's the detention of legal US citizens or legal residents simply because ICE thinks they look like an undocumented immigrant. They have detained legal asylum seekers who are trying to go through the legal immigration process and then brutally abused them while they are detained.
If you were actually pro-immigrant, you wouldn't approve of the draconian restrictions on who can come to the US and you wouldn't approve of the violent actions that ICE is committing. What you seem to fail to recognize is that as a White Englishman, you are the direct beneficiary of the US's restrictive immigration process. You do not have to fear being expected of being an undocumented immigrant despite your legal residency status and you seem unable to put yourself in the shoes of someone who does.
Sending Jews to concentration camps was the law in Nazi Germany, too, so just because something is legal does not mean it is morally right or good.
-
Sir Lionheart
I’m pleased that you agree that our laws should be upheld. Let’s hope citizens allow that to happen just like they did under previous liberal administrations without riots. It’s really as simple as that.
Let’s hope Tom Homan gets a similar accolade under this administration for his role in finding and removing illegal aliens as Border Czar like he did under Obama, then we can continue getting back to making America great again like it was after the Voting Rights Act of 1965.
I wasn’t aware that this administration has put such a low detentions per day quota rate of 3,000 into their immigration policy. I’m surprised it’s as low as that. That’s only 1,095,000 a year. We need to up that daily figure if we intend to try and match Bill Clinton, and George Bush. Joe Biden has a lot to answer for letting so many unvetted illegal aliens into this country.
Try and hang in there as best you can, Michael.
🦁❤️
-
Michael Hunt
Previous administrations weren't killing people in detention facilities on frighteningly frequent occasions, which is why there weren't the same protests...
https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/blog/ice-deaths-shootings-2026/
You weren't aware of the quotas? How can you claim to be informed on these topics when you're not aware of important facts?
https://www.axios.com/2025/12/04/trump-ice-immigration-arrests-deportations
No presidential administration has ever had a goal of or achieved 1 million deportations in a year.
https://ohss.dhs.gov/topics/immigration/yearbook/2019/table39
Biden's administration did not let in tens of millions of unvetted immigrants into the country as you continue to lie about. The undocumented population in the US increased by about 4 million people during the administration and it was driven primarily by growth in the number of unauthorized immigrants who were living in the U.S. with some protections from deportation, such as immigrants paroled into the country and asylum seekers.
https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2025/08/21/u-s-unauthorized-immigrant-population-reached-a-record-14-million-in-2023/
-
Sir Lionheart
It’s very simple, Michael, I don’t have a “need” to research quotas of those being located and returned home. I naturally assumed, and hoped, it was much higher. Thank you for alerting me to the fact that it was sadly much lower.
I guess we’ll never know for sure what the actual numbers were that Biden was responsible for, even though Kamala Harris’s only intelligent tactics to keep them out was to say. “Do not come”. Fat lot of good that was in keeping them out. 🤷
I hear there might be a name change for ICE to be renamed National Immigration Customs Enforcement so that that CNN and other left leaning media have to call them NICE Officers. 😜
🦁❤️
-
Patricia Ann Gross
So not only UIDS, also TDS of a different nature: Transgender deraingement syndrome. It's sad that you place such a heavy burden on less than one percent of the US population.
US Census Bureau: https://usafacts.org/articles/what-percentage-of-the-us-population-is-transgender/
I remember the days when I was proud to be an American. Unfortunately today isn't one of them. I'm sorry you cannot see the darkness that covers our country right now, even with the sun shining at 9:07 am on a cold Saturday morning. Hopefully the midterms will give us some relief.
-
Sir Lionheart
Only THREE more years to go. 🤭
🦁❤️
-
Patricia Ann Gross
Actually, it's 9 and a half months, but who's counting?
-
Sir Lionheart
Nope, 2 years and 11 months now, and it’s looking very likely there will be another 4 years at least after this one of making America great again.
Hopefully, real citizens of the USA will be able to vote at the next election.
🦁❤️
-
Patricia Ann Gross
Hopefully, real citizens will have the opportunity to vote. If the SAVE act passes and isn't struck down by SCOTUS (which it should be), then I will have to spend at least $200 to retrieve the necessary documents to prove:
1) I was born here (i.e., native born citizen), and
2) The person on the birth certificate and my driver's license are one in the same because my name has changed twice since birth.
-
-
-
-
-
Stephen Kistenmacher
Trump is destroying this country! Inflation is still rising, and wages are not keeping up. Tariffs are hurting farmers and small businesses. Trump is attacking the free press and our judicial system. Trump is attacking a number of other countries and getting us into numerous wars! He is sending UStroops into US cites to intimidate his opponents! ICE is acting like a federally sanctioned domestic terrorist group. They didn't act like that with previous administration, while deporting more people. He had broken trreaties with other countries. He has threatened Canada and Greenland. We have lost the confidence of our alles!
I am getting tired of typing, so I will leave you with the short list (don't come back with the lame TDS, please)
-
Sir Lionheart
No, I definitely won’t come back with what you would see as a lame TDS excuse, I think you came to that realization as you were getting tired typing your little ditty. Try and hang in there as best you can during the next 3 years and be thankful we have not been “unburdened by what has been” with Kamala Harris. 😜
🦁❤️
-
-
-
-
ServantOfJudgement
I love JD Vanc. I sure hope he's our next president. He's got his priorities in order for sure. We need to keep our little ones safe from the doctor's knife and the madness in the streets all these illegals have caused. I wish President Jill Biden and co-president Kamala Harris and the Auto pen wouldn't have imported in so much strife. Poor ole Joe just didn't know.
The VP is right about the Aztec. They butchered children for the darndest things. They did it by the truckload too. I'm glad God allowed the evil Cortez to put that nasty civilization down. With just a few conquistadors I guess. I heard the new Mexican ElPresidente wants to bring the Aztec empire back. No surprise the old gods want the limelight again.
Aztecs weren't the only child sacrificers in the americas though. Maya, Teotihuacan,Toltec, Inca, Moche, Chimú, Mississippian, Cahokia, Hohokam and Taíno all chopped up their youth along with adults. All of them sick. I'm glad God put them down too. I wish he didn't have to though.
-
Patricia Ann Gross
Sorry, but Vance scares me more than Trump does. Mostly because he can put a sentence together.
Equating an 1,800 year old mass grave with today's abortion issues, is, however insane. (I hope what Trump has isn't congagious.)
-
Lori Mongillo
Vance is warning people not to turn to the barbarism of Paganism. Why? Pagans and Christians of the past have both been barbarians. Today's Pagans are anything but barbaric. Open minded and curious, yes. He's out of touch with a community of people that are rapidly growing, without any evangelizing. Belief is personal and not immutable. We all evolve in our spirituality. If you're still stuck in the conditioning of the past, believing that you hold the answers that will save you, and to who or what God is, you are missing out on the wonder of the Great Mystery. You're confined to a little box of illusions for personal reasons. Enjoy
-
ServantOfJudgement
Lori,
To the bible believing Christian such as our Vice President, child sacrifice and abortion can be indistinguishable.
It's February 4 and already there have been 86000 abortions in usa alone. 833 due to rape or incest and 4125 after heartbeat.
I believe Vance is suggesting that we're behaving like child sacrificing pagans. To be fair to pagans, not all pagans sacrificed children. Plenty didn't.
I agree with you about exploring life and it's mysteries and so does the bible. We shouldn't get too hung up on politics and money. Life can be pretty darned fun, can it not?
To Vance's point, globally 160 +/- babies were aborted in the time it took me to write this.
-
Patricia Ann Gross
Do you have a source for these numbers? Are they USA numbers or world-wide? What database was used?
-
ServantOfJudgement
Yes, it's here Patricia.
https://www.numberofabortions.com/
-
Patricia Ann Gross
SOJ, That site is run by the "Pro-Life" movement from what I could discern from their "fact sheet" was that they started counting "chemical abortions (aka "the morning after pill") which may or may not have been a real pregnancy, just a stop-gap because of a sexual assault or a failed birth control attempt before having sex. Putting all this in perspective, Bill Clinton deported more illegal immigrants during his presidency than Planned Parenthood has performed abortions since 1970. Since they are counting "morning after pills" as abortions in this count, I suspect that the numbers are highly inflated. I would be more interested in numbers from the CDC, or some medical organization rather than pro-life propaganda.
-
ServantOfJudgement
Patricia, I knew you would try to debunk it before I pasted it. The immobile left and mobile right do the exact same thing.
The only obstacle to truth is the assumption you already possess it.
Of course all abortion clocks are pro-life. You cool with those numbers? We will eventually hit them right? One day those numbers will be dwarfed by scalpel abortions. You fine with that many souls sent to the landfill?
-
Patricia Ann Gross
SOJ,
Did I ever say I was okay with abortion? Did I ever say I would have one or encourage anyone to have one? I am NOT okay with abortion nor am I okay with anyone telling me what I have to do with my own body. God gave me my body and the intellect to make a choice that was right for my own wellbeing.
If you are one of the "life begins at conception" people, why, when I lost a baby at 12 weeks was I not given two weeks of bereavement leave and a body to bury? In Texas, where I was at the time, I would now be denied the D and C that was required to clean out the "articles of conception." and likely have had serious complications if I couldn't spontaneouly "expel" what was left, leaving me unable to conceive my beautiful daughter. I didn't have a baby. The doctors called the remaining tissue, "articles of conception," and couldn't even tell me if it was a boy or a girl. There was never a heartbeat detected, and once I started spotting, it took five days before they decided a D and C was necessary to save my future reproductive possibilities. The trauma was real, and I was never allowed to grieve, so don't lecture me on "souls in a landfill" because that's not where they dispose of the tissue.
These are decisions that are best left between the doctor and the mother, with input from others they choose to bring in (spiritual and family support).
I have counseled numerous women trying to decide what to do when they find themselves pregnant at inconvenient times. Never did I tell them what to do with their bodies, we just went through all of the options they had, and I let them make their own choice. Some chose to terminate, others had the babies. Most of them conceived from failed birth control methods.
By the way, did you know that antibiotics and other medications reduce the effectiveness of birth control medications? I was never counseled about this unfortunate side-effect, but discovered it when a neice turned up pregnant after having been put on antibiotics for an ear infection. That child is now a freshman in college. I thank God that I was given the option of having both my children at times when I could adequately take care of them and watch them grow up to be wonderful and caring adults.
Pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion any more than than the street protestors are pro-illeagle criminals. Pro-choice is about body autonomy and the street protestors are pro-due process and rule of law.
-
Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
‘ The only obstacle to truth is the assumption you already possess it.’
Says all the religiously delusional folk throughout the world.
HOLD THIS AND TRUTH IS YOURS, REJECT IT AND YOU’RE LOST!
-
-
-
-
-
-
Ben
😂
-
-
Lori Mongillo
Ask the Native Americans how wonderful Christianity was to them and their children. Let's take a look at the sexual abuse of young boy within the Catholic Church. It's all BS. Vance is just as bad as his lying superior.
-
Ben
What's interesting is that about 500 to 1,000 years prior to what happened to them similar happened to the ancestors of those white colonists. Their own ancestors were forcefully converted to Christianity and therefore losing touch with their own pagan heritage.
-
Jennifer Griebel
Refreshing to see someone else has remembrance of this. 💞
-
-
ServantOfJudgement
Lori,
Pound for pound there's more child abuse in public schools than in the church. You'll not run out of reading material when researching child abuse in schools. You might run out of tears though.
Both are bad right?
-
Michael Hunt
Both are horrible. Which public schools have hidden this abuse and quietly moved the abuser to different schools instead of turning them into the police? Unfortunately, this practice has been used by the Catholic church for decades with limited repercussions. They deserve to face judgement just as any person or organization who protects abusers.
-
James Sermoner
Servant, I think it's fair to say you're comparing apples to oranges. Size Matters: The sheer size of the public school system means it often has the highest absolute number of reported abuse cases, not necessarily a higher rate per student. Underreporting: Abuse is widely considered underreported in all school types, making precise comparisons difficult.
-
-
-
Nicholas J Page
I was born here in England and this story is new to me But then Vance only read about it somewhere sometime ago .Pagans are human beings so why would they sacrifice babies this is all B.S No proof no evidence it's all fake
-
ServantOfJudgement
Today the sacrifice alter is padded with a pillow and stirrups. The god isn't Molech these days, it's self worship.
Here in the United States we've already killed over 73000 babies this year and January still has a couple days left.
Since 1973 we've(usa) killed 67,000,000+ babies. You can understand why God is actively judging our nation as he historically does to nations that kill their own children.
Christian friend, you'll find that your nation is also being "textbook" judged. If you're willing to look at it, you'll see it.
-
Michael Hunt
A fetus isn't a baby by very definition. A baby must be born first. A fetus is physically attached to and part of the mother until it is born. We're not killing children by allowing a mother to choose if she wants to give up a part of herself and grow a fetus into a baby or if she does not want to do so. We're allowing them to have medical agency.
-
ServantOfJudgement
Michael,
Sure, fetus is the technician term while baby is the practical term. Nobody ever asks a pregnant woman "Hows your fetus doing". It's always How's the baby.
We don't say pass the C12H22O11. We say pass the sugar.
We can make ourselves feel better by using cold language to describe warm life when we kill it. And we are killing, him or her.
At one point the fetus gains a soul and the consciousness that comes with it, long before 9 months. Babies have personalities while inside the mother's womb. That personality persists outside the womb. It's a person that is a fetus with his or her own mind and heartbeat. The little guy just wants to live.
-
Michael Hunt
You know I do see that I am wrong about the fact that baby can be used to refer to a fetus, not just after the fetus is born, which is an infant.
I do not believe that we have souls that are given to us at the moment of conception, nor do I believe consciousnesses is somehow evidence of a soul as some might suggest. Ultimately, we both have faith that our belief regarding the metaphysical is the truth, but it's impossible to actually know the truth while we're alive on Earth as we experience this reality.
If you are requiring us to all recognize that life and personhood begins at conception based off of your belief in the existence of a soul, you're imposing your religious beliefs upon women who do not wish to carry a fetus to term and birth an infant.
By denying access to abortions. you are saying that a fetus, a.k.a. an unborn child, has more rights to the woman's body than the woman does. I'm sorry, but it seems immoral to me that an adult woman, fully sentient and self-aware, would have less rights than a still developing child-to-be.
Abortion restrictions only steal agency away from the mother; they won't stop the rich and connected from seeking them out through other means, legal or otherwise.
-
ServantOfJudgement
Michael, I appreciate your opinion. You said it better than I could.
We fundamentally disagree, even if we both have the best of intentions. That's a tough one.
You're advocating for the mother while I'm advocating for the baby. Both noble in my opinion. Still the divide exists.
-
-
-
Ben
I could be wrong here but according to the by Bael it's not considered a full-fledged person until it draws its first breath in and of its own accord.
-
ServantOfJudgement
I doubt you're wrong Ben. All sorts of abomination came from baal worship.
Of course we have observations as I've touched on that let us know the person is formed long before the lungs are filled.
As far as "full fledged" goes that may vary. The Bible puts that age around 20 years. Modern culture agrees with that biblical assessment. However, political motivations will bump that number as needed. 26 years for parental health insurance, 21 to drink alcohol, 18 to vote(was 21) and check out porn, 17 to join the military and way down to 13 for gender reassignment attempts all while not really knowing what a woman is.
We can see that man and his pagan god's wisdom crumble under the slightest pressure.
What a shame it is to rob a soul from the adventure and excitement of life before it can even pull in its first breath of fresh air.
-
-
-
-
-
Rev Ned
Re JD Vance, B. Bunny said it best, “What a maroon!”
-
Ben
He talks about conservative values and the such when he's involved in an interracial relationship and has children of mixed heritage. He probably thinks homosexuality is a sin but what he's doing isn't. Talk about a lack of credibility. It's like Westboro Baptist Church in Wichita Kansas and that pastor Steven Anderson of the Faithful Word Baptist Church in Arizona. They go on tirades about the sinfulness of homosexuality while defending interracial relationships. The hypocrisy of these types knows no bounds.
-
Joseph Grieco
So, do you also have a problem with Clarence Thomas' interracial marriage? Do you have a problem with Kamala Harris' interracial marriage? Do you have a problem with her parent's interracial marriage? Do you have a problem with Barak Obama's mother's interracial marriage? 19th Century genetic identifiers placed folks in the Indian Subcontinent (where Usha's family is from) firmly in the Caucasian Race, just like European descent folks, like her husband.
-
Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
I didn’t read Ben’s comment as having some sort of prejudice against interracial marriages. What he pointed out was that JD is a hypocritical sack of male bovine fecal matter.
-
-
ServantOfJudgement
Ben, the reason preachers say homosexuality is a sin is because the bible says it's a sin. The reason preachers don't talk about interracial marriage being a sing is because the bible doesn't say it's a sin.
Although we're all hypocrites, our Vice President Vance isn't being a hypocrite because his wife ain't white.
He's actually a really down to earth good ole Ohioan. I'm very hopeful for him to be our next president.
-
James Riggle-Johnson
Preachers used to teach that interracial marriage was a sin. Why do you think it was outlawed in so many states? They say many things not listed in the bible are sinful.
-
-
Religion as a Weapon is Wrong
There is no such thing as race. It's a social construct.
-
Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Viewed as social construct it might be better to substitute culture for race. Cultures are absolutely different from one another. And because humans are very much social creatures those differences simply cannot be easily ignored. Emphasis on “easily“.
-
-
-
Sir Lionheart
https://youtu.be/DvA-Vf0MomM?si=lWdH67tBwhKWipG0
🦁❤️
-
-
CB Cuff
He's as delusional as his boss. A senior government administrator should know better than to make a public speech such as that.
-
Ben
It's good that he did though because more people need to see what a jackass he is.
-
-
Rev. BH
What is wrong with this guy?!
-
Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Well, he furniture fornicator.
-
-
Colleen McAllister
So Vance read something. Big wow. Notice that he read, not researched. Christianity is no more blameless of such abominations as any other belief.
-
ServantOfJudgement
That's right Colleen. There are millions of Christians that have gotten abortions. We're all sinners. Some embrace the sin and some resist the sin.
That said, the Christian doctrine itself, God's Word is free of abomination. The Aztecs can't say that. Their doctrine was to sacrifice children. And the happily followed it.
-
Michael Hunt
Deuteronomy 17 says that someone who goes against God's teachings or follows other gods is doing evil in the eyes of the Lord and therefore should be stoned to death as well as saying anyone who shows contempt for a judge or priest should be put to death.
Leviticus is full of reasons for which someone should be killed. Exodus 22:29-30 could be interpreted to suggest that followers should sacrifice their first born son to the Lord, just as they should do with their sheep and oxen.
You're right that child sacrifice is barbaric, but the Bible advocates for barbaric practices as well.
-
ServantOfJudgement
Michael, I gave my first born to God as the passage you cited says. Not because the Bible says to, we're not living under that law, I did it because I wanted to. I wanted my son taken care of and properly guided if I were to die before he came of age.
As a result, my son on his own purchased a home on 7 acre when he was 20 during the COVID shutdown. That alone these days is miraculous especially during COVID. By chance it was a home only one property between us in the country. Also miraculous. I have a fantastic one year old grandson I see every day since we're so close. I can't say how happy and blessed my wife and I are with it all.
Giving one's son to God means much more than those words you quoted. It a good thing. Definitely not talking about an offering to God.
Too often people scan or nowadays they GPT the Bible looking at it from a negative angle, they want to find bad things from God to fertilize their disklike of him. When we don't want God we'll never comprehend the wisdom of the Bible.
-
Michael Hunt
I understand, SOJ, that you interpret this verse as giving him the knowledge of God. My point is how easily the same verse could be interpreted as the Bible calling for first born sons to be sacrificed as they would sacrifice livestock.
I'm glad for your family's good fortune and clear happiness. The fact you "gave him to God" does not equal causation for his success, though. There are plenty of happy, successful atheists, Buddhists, Muslims, Sikh, etc. all over the globe. There are also plenty of horrible people who have committed atrocities in the name of their deity, including Christians.
-
Patricia Ann Gross
I presume your child never talked back to you, then, because Leviticus says you should put him to death. Don't give me there's nothing barbaric in the Bible. It is full of it. Slavery, is now considered a crime against humanity, but was practiced freely by the people then, also polygamy and having concubines (wormen slaves used primarily for sex). This was true even in Jesus' time, as some of Paul's instructions to his church leaders was instructions on how to treat their slaves.
-
-
-
-
-
Rev “D”
How amusing. Christians barbarians killed babies, women children, elderly, etc. Christian priests & ministers rape & sexually abuse children, in modern day USA. And vp has done nothing to stop it. Guess too worried about long dead ancient history.
-
Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
A comment by Vance draws scrutiny? As if that’s unusual?
-
Sir Lionheart
All of the world’s gods throughout time have a lot to answer for. I’m quite amazed that people still believe and worship any of them. 🤷
Even the nature gods that many have created, though appearing to be harmless, can be brutal if a tree falls on you, or a hurricane blows you away. 🤭
🦁❤️
-
obere mchugh
jd vance and all those like him have no right nor have the right to shove there view down any one's throat. the pro life movement yes has there right to there opinions just as so does the pro abortionist movement, in the end its none of your business nor anyone elses business what a women does with her body point blank as it is 1000% only the womens and her doctor's business as such since i am an ardent believer in the autonomy of women and the grand divinity to womenhood and the soveriengty to the human condition, you sir and all the governmental operatives who are partriarchal power hungry fools and those who fallow your hatred of women kind. women are the ones and should be the one's completely in control as with the advent and rise of male centered world its fallen into chaos. your bigoted and misogynistic world view is so drastically distored and it just boggles my mind. i am so very glad that my family and community was and still is driven by the rule of the mother and to be at peace and in harmony with the sacredness of the mother and the mother goddess ancestors and spirits for within the sacredness of women hood all things are possible and more in tune with the grand designe ever so much more than the fear hate and illogical rule of male dominated anything.
-
Douglas Robert Spindler
JD Vance sure likes that book that's filled with pornography, sex, violence, murders and lies.
-
Najah P Tamargo
Najah Tamargo-USA
Evidently, Mrs. Vance has never had an ectopic pregnancy.
-
Patricia Ann Gross
Nor has she had a miscarriage that required a D & C.
-
Sir Lionheart
It’s possible Rachel Levine, Sam Brinton and other Biden appointee transvestites will say they have. 🤭
🦁❤️
-
Ben
😂
-
-
-
Katelynne Shouse
I'd believe literally anything a prisoner on death row might say, before I'd believe anything coming out of Corporal Couchmolesters' mouth!
-
ServantOfJudgement
Who has JD Vance molested Katelynne?
-
Patricia Ann Gross
A couch.
-
-
-
Dylan Tuatha Le Danaan
The Bible is full of horrific tales of murders of women and children at the hands of men. The sad state of affairs at that time is that women and children had very little value.
In the ancient matriarchal societies women were in charge of the land and and taking care of the family. They're children were considered to be a gift from the goddess and revered. It is only when the patriarchal religions became a leading political movement that women and children are considered property to be disposed of at a man's convenience. Hence in many early churches we see the bodies of women and children entered in the foundations. In the Roman era brothels were very popular, slave women were kept in luxurious houses. Because they were slaves to the men who ran these places, they had no say over what happened to their children after birth. And many nunneries all throughout Europe the bodies of newborns are found thrown into spaces between walls and mittens. Even up until this century infantzide was practiced. Read up on the Magdalene homes of Ireland such as Sinead O'Connor railed against. People such as the nationalists that are running the country now will twist any thing they can come up with to make themselves look blameless. Is very very sad
-
ServantOfJudgement
Absolutely Dylan.
God wants us to never look away from how evil we can be while we're here. The Palestinians have always killed isrialites even to the point of cutting open the womb to smash the baby against the ground. The Palestinians have always butchered Israelites and they're not alone.
Man just loves killing people doesn't he.
-
Michael Hunt
I want to make it very clear, first and foremost, that I do not at all condone Palestinians killing Israelis, nor do I condone Israel killing Palestinians. It is a terrible tragedy that these two groups have been killing each other for over a century.
However, you are unfairly painting Palestinians as the ones committing atrocities when Israel is committing atrocities as well. This is a conflict started by Zionists pushing Palestinians out of the believed Holy Land where the Palestinians lived. It's difficult to accurately track the number of deaths by either side over the entirety of a more than a century old conflict, but we do have plenty of data from recent decades. Just since the start of the Gaza War, Israel has acknowledged more than 70,000 Palestinians have been killed.
https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/middle-east/israel-gaza-war-death-toll-military-hamas-b2910276.html?test_group=lighteradlayout
Conversely, there have been 2100+ Israeli deaths, including those who died in the October 7 attack, since the start of the war. That's a staggering imbalance and, while it doesn't appear to have been that significant of a difference over the entirety of the conflict, the past few decades have seen significantly more Palestinian deaths than Israeli deaths during the conflict.
It's incredibly sad, but both sides have been butchering each other for generations.
-
ServantOfJudgement
I really enjoy debating with you Michael because you bring facts without insults and your heart's as big as Kansas. These things you say I'm aware of and know to be true.
Imagine if you will for millennia your neighbors invaded and butchered your family. Then came the Romans. Then came islam. Then the Spaniards and then Hitler. Then when your finally home again, all the Arab nations came and then the terrorists came with suicide bombers and RPGs. It's hard to say how you or I would handle Oct 7. You'd be nicer than me though, not a bad thing. Probably a good thing. I'd have fewer sucker punches though. That's not all bad either.
Let's hope, wish or pray our fate isn't the same in this country as it is for the Israelites and their neighbors.
I wish Michael, I really do.
-
Ben
Genetically speaking the Palestinians are indistinguishable from the Hebraic people of the by Bael while many Jews have only minimal amounts of Semitic heritage at best. So who's the real anti-Semites?
-
Ben
Comment removed by user.
-
-
-
-
Michael Hunt
If there was any question about this administration pushing a Christian nationalist agenda, VP Vance's words here should make it pretty clear what their end goal is.
-
Ben
What's wanted on their part is a pro Zionist evangelical Christian theocracy.
-
If it's our orange president-for-life or his Robin-wannabe, if it exudes from their forked tongues, it is a lie. As has been exhaustively documented everywhere except the worshipful Right.