Is a male Muppet wearing a dress a wholesome message of inclusion, or a sinister attempt to indoctrinate children?
That’s the debate raging after a popular Muppets character wore a dress on a recent episode of Disney Junior’s "Muppet Babies" – a children's show featuring toddler-size versions of all your favorite muppets, from Kermit, to Miss Piggy, to Fozzie Bear.
The series is a big hit with kids and has also been nominated for several Daytime Emmy Awards. Now, it’s also the source of major controversy.
It all stems from a recent episode in which a male muppet named "Gonzo" wears a dress. His fellow muppets give encouragement for being his most authentic self – even if that means breaking gender norms and wearing female clothing.
Many Christian parents and faith groups are incensed, arguing that featuring a cross-dressing character on a TV program for preschoolers is equivalent to "LGBT indoctrination." Many are now calling for a boycott of the series.
Gonzo Goes Glam
What exactly happened in the show to spark such a reaction?
The episode in question closely mirrors the story of "Cinderella," as all the characters are planning to attend a royal ball.
The royal handbook states that boys must show up to the ball as knights and girls must show up as princesses. But Gonzo feels more at home as a princess, so his ‘Fairy Rat-father’ appears and makes his wish come true –Gonzo is transformed into Gonzorella, complete with blue dress, face mask, and glass shoes. “This makes me so happy,” Gonzo says.
The episode concludes with a message of acceptance and inclusion: The muppets throw out that stodgy old handbook and agree that next time, everyone can come to the ball dressed in whatever clothing they want. “I want to be me,” Gonzo says. Another muppet tells him that “you're our friend, and we love you any way you are.”
He even gets a rare apology from Miss Piggy, when she says that "it wasn't very nice of us to tell you what to wear."
If only Kermit were ever so lucky.
An Important Message
LGBT activists applauded the nod at inclusivity as both heartwarming and progressive. GLAAD’s Head of Talent Anthony Allen Ramos said that the episode “sends the simple and important message that there’s a place for everyone to be accepted and welcomed just as they are.” Many longtime Muppet fans expressed support for Gonzo-rella, including the Twitter account ‘Muppet History’ which championed the episode.
However, not everyone saw Gonzo-rella in the same light.
‘Bring Back Manly Muppets’
“[It] is outrageous that Disney Junior is normalizing gender dysphoria to young children,” stated Monica Cole of the faith-based media watchdog group One Million Moms. “This program makes it clear that Disney Junior has an LGBTQ agenda that it is forcing on extremely young audiences.”
The story really exploded when media pundit Candace Owens tweeted about it, arguing that we should “bring back manly muppets.”
Gathering even more steam, the episode was also talked about on the morning show Fox & Friends. “Is this what kids were clamoring for from the muppets? Cross-dressing?” pondered guest host Pete Hegseth, before wondering if the increase in LGBT-friendly children’s programming wasn’t an intentional attempt to change the culture itself.
“We've allowed places like this to say, okay, yeah let's throw a little bit of this in there, a little bit more gender-fluid, maybe we'll throw some cross-dressing in there, and expect culturally for us not to change, and we have,” he said.
One thing’s for sure: LGBT representation is increasing across all media, including children’s media. Children’s staples like Arthur, Clifford, and Sesame Street all saw gay characters or guest stars prominently featured. Animation studio Pixar even featured their first openly LGBT character in last year’s hit film, Onward.
Religious critics were worked up then, too, calling for boycotts of PBS and Disney. However, there's little evidence those efforts had any noticeable effect.
What do you think? Is a cartoon character in a dress harmful to children? Is Gonzo-rella really part of some insidious "gay agenda," or is he simply showing kids that it’s okay to be different?
75 comments
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Minister Deidre
I just really don't even understand why everyone is taking this all so seriously. The Muppets aren't human. Gonzo, in particular, is just called a weirdo, no one knows what he is. He's been married to a chicken named Carlotta for crying out loud. There's a LONG history of cartoon characters crossdressing, though it's usually played for comedy. Is it only ok to conservatives if it's held up for ridicule? No one has had an issue with the fact that pretty much every male character from the Bugs Bunny cartoons has appeared in drag. Some of them have even had relationships with other male characters and gotten married. Again, played for comedy, so I guess that makes it alright, somehow? But if the character means it, and the other characters are happy for them, it's a problem?
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Minister Deidre
I just really don't even understand why everyone is taking this all so seriously. The Muppets aren't human. Gonzo, in particular, is just called a weirdo, no one knows what he is. He's been married to a chicken named Carlotta for crying out loud. There's a LONG history of cartoon characters crossdressing, though it's usually played for comedy. Is it only ok to conservatives if it's held up for ridicule? No one has had an issue with the fact that pretty much every male character from the Bugs Bunny cartoons has appeared in drag. Some of them have even had relationships with other male characters and gotten married. Again, played for comedy, so I guess that makes it alright, somehow? But if the character means it, and the other characters are happy for them, it's a problem?
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Rev. Doris Dittmer
back in the 80s my son wore skirts and dresses to school. just because it was fun. and he also wanted to know what it was like for women to wear pantyhose and heels. he got full support from the adults in the school as well as from me -- he is a well adjusted dad and manager in a high tech company. nothing could be better when the spirit is adventuresome and when the people you trust are there for you. I have also heard other men say that women get all the fun with the variety of clothes they get to wear, plus the jewelry etc. Yay, Gonzo!
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Mary Thompson
I support making this 'normal'. Love who you want to love, as long as they treat you right. Dress how you want to dress, as long as you feel good. Be who you really are so you can shine your light! Love all. I wish these things were around when I was a kid!
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Mary Thompson
1 LOVE above all. When did all the haters choose to be straight? Most would say it wasn't your choice-you just are straight...well same should apply to all ...Nobody wants/chooses to be hated or discriminated against. We were made as individuals and our anesthetics should not really matter. Also, when is it anybody else's business on what ppl do when it comes to sex/sexual preferences? We are here to deliver a message on being one. One species=humans, who love-despite differences. Those that judge people: if you do not understand and choose to remain that way, you are locking out the true light...it could be considered arrogant...selfish...uneducated...and against the very Creator that created those beings. And for all the hard-cores that want to quote from the Bible, please read the ENTIRE chapter/book in order. You can make any book you want say what you want, when you dissect into your own ideologies.
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Mike
When I was seven I was chosen along with several other little boys to get dressed up as girls to play girls in a show that was presented on parent’s day at a children’s summer day camp. I didn’t want to play a girl. I was teased for being a girl in the show and yes, while the camp’s staff was getting us dressed up, an older man reached under my dress and groped me. It left an indelible mark on my childhood and honestly at the time I thought I was being punished for being inadequate as a boy. It wasn’t until I was much older that I realized it was child abuse.
I think there’s nothing wrong with dress up. If a boy in my family wanted to be a girl for Halloween I’d allow it. My question about a muppet cross-dressing or schools incorporating gender awareness into class is what do those people really know about it? Are they professionals who were trained to advise children with true gender issues? And how does it affect children?
I think the man who got his rocks off touching me because I was dressed up as a little girl was a pervert child molester who should have gone to jail. I wish I could tell him that, but this happened sixty years ago and today he’s molesting boys in the afterlife.
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Michael Barret Jones
So let me get this correct: a weirdo, blue, alien creature that's been wearing feathers and the appearance of eye shadow and false lashes for the last 40+ years is all of a sudden supposed to conform to the gendered standards of American Men? Where does THAT come from? Gonzo may identify as male, but he's certainly never been required to be anything other than he is: outside, other and unique. That's TEXTUAL in his character. This is the perfect extension of that, and in fact, maybe even a cop-out because it's so expected of him to push boundaries.
In any case, good on Muppet Studios, good on Disney. This is exactly in the spirit of The Muppets, who "Muppet Babies" aside, are NOT children's entertainment. Jim would be proud.
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James Edward Hagopian
all I got to say on this matter if we spend so much in conflict please look up the definition us humans are not doing we're supposed to be doing on this Earth love each other we spend so much time and energy on matters we are forgetting about the poor add on other issues like homelessness starvation clothing doing the father's will loving helping focusing our attention on God of our understanding not always in conflict with our own beliefs our own opinion on our own life where did the sacrifice go if we follow the cross we will be taken care of us that is so busy in conflict in matters that really has nothing to do with love we must get our Focus back on our mission on this Earth to get back to heaven we all used to work together to solve problems like building a staircase back to heaven but we use giving a challenge when we was given different language and skin we've been in conflict with each other ever since and all we do is plant seeds of hate not of love over matters that we disagree with
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Alicia Szot
But commercials where dads are dressing as princesses for a "tea party" with their daughters are OK. And there was a guy who brought his niece to a princess movie and dressed as a princess...but that was OK.
People....it's a freakin' Muppet! Get a grip!
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Jason Morales
I think the topic should be avoid for many reasons. Children are innocent and dont know of this stuff or rarely know of it. There focus should be more on child hood learning
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Lisa Ann OBrien
If the world's religious leaders, such as yourselves can not agree on a basic truth, to Love One Another and judge not, showing acceptance for the beliefs of others and accept children in a fashion of nurture, what hope is there for any of us?
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Rev Mark D
I think you're all up S... Creek. Men wear dresses in Scotland and Bavaria, and a halfway up and down Asia. It's normal enough for them and nobody says anything...
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Pastor Barton
You shouldn't be teaching children to be like this, as most of trans people tend to commit suicide and have many more mental illnesses than just being trans.
This website doesn't seem to be about Church, more so, anti-Christian.
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Alicia Szot
Trans people commit suicide because people bully them and don't accept them as they are. It's the same with gays. Has nothing to do with the fact that they're trans or gay....it's the massive bullying and shunning.
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A James Baird
You seem to have made an assumptive error. Church does not equal Christian.
Love. Respect. Acceptance.
A. James Baird
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Gerald Edward Blackford
If scripture says it’s sin It is sin Our opinions do not matter
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Lionheart
All religions seem to have books and documents they revere as scripture, Gerald, so which religion are you referring to, and how do you know that your scripture, written by men, is divine?
🦁❤️
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Nevaeh S. Perrella
All God Creations even animal know the difference in male and female, we are different with exception of genetic defect of hermaphroditism, there are moral issues at stake children should be taught to be considerate of other but so should adults this does not mean teaching them more confusion or giving r role models to encourage them to be something they other wise may not be. this fall on the parents to teach and no one else. as far as religion goes all christian scripture tell us men shall not dress as women or lay with man as a woman. hermaphrodites or unics served the church some were made that way by men some were born that way. Mathew 19;12, we are never to judge but live a godly life, we should never force views on another we are all broken in some way this is why we have churches to got to to heal and seek out God regardless of our sins. a male child to adult thinking is not developed till at around age 25. waken a bit younger. the frontal lobs or decision making take time and decisions based on in moral exposures can influence in unpredictable ways. i do not agree with such program being on television. a child should grow into there own sexuality on there own and parents should monitor and be away of interest , sure many just experiment but this is not a sign of who they will become or role they wish to take. People are feminizing the population and destroying morality with excuses.alot of it coming down from government for control. many do not want to go to church anymore always saying to many hypocrites, well im like this i would rather be in church with a few hypocrites than go to hell with all of them. we need to get back to basics , and take responsibilities for what is happing because we let it happen. God Loves us all but he will let us destroy ourselves ....lead and live by example there will always be people that try to make you look bad to feel better about themselves or have confirmation in there own delusions, people are always right in their own minds.and just do not want to listen to Gods Words.
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Maria
I truly feel sorry for anyone who is confused about their gender! And parents should be advocating to address this with their children in a medical or psychiatrists office! They obviously have mental and or hormonal issues! And society needs to stop normalizing this and confusing children who know what they are. God created two genders male and female and the two genitalia’s fit perfectly together. Anything else whether transgender or homosexuality is not normal, and needs to be addressed by the medical field. I personally have nothing against either because this isn’t a choice I get it, but it’s not normal either. When a child or an adult has an illness it is addressed. And homosexuality and transgender issues are an illness and need to be treated as such amd treated!
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Jennifer A Stauffer
This cartoon is directed at young children and at this age you can dress any way you want. Do they get upset when a girl puts on a cape? Boys I. Real life will wear dresses and paint their nails unless their parents are biased and full of fear.
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John P Maher
W T F ? RELIGION has GONE LOONEY TUNES and NO MERRY MELODIES, WHAT is THE PROBLEM WITH LIVING YOUR LIFE in PEACE and HARMONY, BAD GOVERNMENT, BAD CLERGY, BAD TEACHERs, BAD PARENTs, OH YEAH BADDD THINKING, YOU KNOW LIKE the G O Pigs the PARTISAN CARTOON !
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Dr. Samuel D Goldman, Ph.D. D.D.
Rabbi Samuel Goldman, Phd,DD.
What I haven't heard in all of the discussions here, and I've enjoyed everyone's comments, is the need for parent's and children to talk together about what the children are being exposed to in our new society. Be it in schools, on the play grounds, between friends, on the televisions or simply what they're hearing. Parents need to step back to a time when they were in a more positive relationship with their children, spending more time with them finding out what they are hearing and how they're feeling about what they're being exposed to, at all ages.
One of my folks recently came to me after a very contentious divorce to discuss issues in his life that were driving him to depression, one of these issues was his need to cross dress, which had been going on since he was 16 and he was 44. We talked for a long time and I referred him to a Psychologist who works with gender issues.
We as clergy can not solve all problems, however, we must be open to all issues with an open mind and heart.
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John P Maher
WELL SAID and MEANT RABBI GOLDMAN !
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Lionheart
Sir Lionheart MA, BSc. BA, Ph.D. D.D. 😳
Let’s hope the Psychologist was a secular therapist that uses evidence-based psychology (EBP), and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, (CBP), guided in the treatment and assessment methods used by the current best practices as defined by scientific evidence.
Thank you for your comment, Samuel.
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Nevaeh S. Perrella
well said
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Gwendolyn Lord
More importent to worry about cross-dressing puppets than all the starving, sick, homeless, unloved children of the world? Oh wait...isn't that my argument against anti-abortion proselytizing folk.
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John Norris Campbell
Hello Gwendolyn, your 'argument' against 'anti-abortion' folks has actually been in play for the last 80 years, with JUST one exception" Secular governments have stepped their game up and just kill full grown babies by the hundreds of millions...But I'll guess you would be on board with that ideaology, because, after all...nobody wants to feed those adult humans either, and they make great fertilizer in all those mass graves..Doubt me? Look up Chairman Mao, who literally starved to death 70 to 100 million of his own people, just to save a few bucks, because they were "inconvient"....and let's not forget his one child per family law that went into effect that led to killing millions of already born children...mostly girls...because they were inconvient...Ya'll love to say "my body my choice"....well the unborn have their own heart, and completly different DNA from 'your' body....Ready for your government mandated Vax shot? and enforced mask wearing? Your body your chioce eh?
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Daniel Gray
let them do what they want. and when the ratings for the show hit the celler then it will be cancelled.
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David Arthur Lewis
There was a time when the Christian Church ruled the entire known world. We call that era the Dark Ages. American evangelicals want to bring back those good old days.
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John Norris Campbell
You are 1/2 right...It was the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH...not the Christian church that brought on the dark ages....They tried to keep God's words from the masses by making it illegal to even own an Bible, to the point that it was an offence that came with a death sentence....Suppresion of knowledge was the rule of the day...and to go against the 'pope's will' meant death for you and your little dog too....By the 1500's the bible was being mass produced and no longer cost more than an entire years wage...by the 1600's, because so many people read the Bible for themselves, the great 'reformation' came about and when the catholics still tried to kill everyone against the 'church' these folks jumped on boats and headed for the 'new world' AKA North America....BTW...Most American Evangelicals are just scam artists and wolves in sheep's clothing...BUT IF YOU ACT NOW! I'LL SEND YOU A FREE MIRACLE, just for subscribing to my channel...LOL!!!
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Angel
lol, children don't even understand the concept of LGBT, I don't see anything wrong with raising little rugrats to accept people and not grow up to be bullies! You don't have to tell them that Gonzo is trans, just tell them that Gonzo wanted to be different and to let people just be themselves. I mean seriously, how many boys have played with barbies and how many girls with tonka trucks? How can a genderless God possible care about what you have between your legs when "the flesh" doesn't matter in heaven anyway's. Besides, none of you are going to heaven anyway's because you have appointed yourselves as judges and have taught your children to hate other children...
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Thom
I'm glad to see my fellow Kin here (to eliminate any gender association) that we all agree this is the best way to approach. That all individuals are possibly different in many ways. We all have a journey in life. If we aren't allow to follow our paths that the universe has given us then what happens. I think we have all either experienced that or have seen what that social experience outcome has created or scars it has left on individuals. Let's all work together to allow the Arts to work in keeping hatred and racism not being taught. The hardest thing is, that it is taught at home. How to get into the family unity is our responsibility. As Clergy We are the few who get to be the closest to those family units. We are the few who get to communicate to them directly, emotionally, to touch them spiritually. If not us then who but the Arts. Television, Theatre, Museum exhibits, Animation, all and any form of art that can communicate the outcome of hatred and the death and destruction it has created to human lives. Even the Christian Religion has done this same thing in attempting to make Christianity the world religion in control of the whole world. Refusing to resign that there are possibly other religions that really are all good. That teach the same things. That Christianity isn't the only theology. That all of us are chosen IF we are good to other humans. Kind to each other. Make offerings to those in need. To accept all those who are human. To be thankful for all the Universe has given us. They say he did miracles. He studied across the world. Did he do miracles? Or did he know things others didn't to cure the ill? Did he really turn one fish into many or did he suggest that he fish was divided in a manner that all received a portion and they were thankful for receiving it due to his teachings. Questions I have asked myself so often. Judas. Judas was so close to Jesus. Jesus Died for all our sins. Did Judas and Jesus have a loving relationship? Was Judas so jealous he sold his loyalty. Yes money can buy a person but usually there is an underlying reason. Not just greed. Or maybe he did just want the money. So many things to ponder. LOL As our Logo of the Church states "We are all children of the same universe" and that is what I believe.
Universal acceptance.
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The Rev. William C, Millhouse
I do not see a problem. Too many people spend their time looking for something to complain about.
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Rev Mark D
Why do priests dress up in women's clothing as part of all their formal rituals, and why do they dress up alter boys the same way? Every time I see one I think "turning males into females, now why would a psyche need to do that? (rhetorical question, since we already know the psychological answer.)
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Jennifer A Stauffer
Jesus wore a dress, no pants back then. If it’s fine in the church it should be fine outside the church
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Rev Mark D
The objection stems, rightly, from adulating what is an anxiety disorder (cross-dressing is a person's response to ease hidden anxiety over their inner conflict that needs to be resolved...when the person resolves the anxiety over their gender identity or whatever the source of the anxiety is, the urge to cross dress disappears. Thus cross dressing serves only to magnify the anxiety, rather than help resolve it...and that is what the problem is. Sewing and cementing conflict and confusion and anxiety equals good (i.e., ratings increasing) television, and that's what the shows care about, not the viewer..
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John Norris Campbell
Rev Mark D...so you recognize this disorder as being a psycholigical illness? Kind of like gender dysphoria? When fashion is a social construct, why do people make such a fuss?
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Rev Mark D
Not just me...it's been a psychiatric diagnosis for decades. It's not gender dysphoria, it's a simple anxiety disorder. Cross dressers are straight, and do it for anxiety relief. Others cross dress for social reasons such as entertainment and if they are not doing it to relieve anxiety, then there is no disorder.
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Mark Hannon
The word you need is "sowing" not "sewing". Sewing is for altering women's clothing to fit a man's physique or vice versa.
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Rev Mark D
Yes, a spelling error.
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Patricia Maria O'Connor
Most women already ‘cross dress’ by wearing clothing which was originally intended to be worn by men, eg trousers. Plenty of ‘conservative Christian’ women wear trousers, which is actually contrary to the Bible they wave at every opportunity! Apparently they are unfamiliar with irony…
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Nicholas J Page
Too many snowflakes in the world today don't do this don't say that.For heavens sake get a grip on life does it matter what or when this happens the world is a changing all the time every one go with the flow.We never had this problem 63 years ago.
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John Norris Campbell
How can one 'crossdress' when there is supposedly more than two genders? Is'nt that the reasoning with today's 'activsts'? Why is it when a biological male chooses to present himself as a female to the world it's usually in the form of a caricature or imitation in which certain characteristics are grossly exaggerated? Or when a biological female wants to present as a man, it's usually wearing short hair and the wardrobe of a trucker or logger? Seems to me that those are the people perpetuating gender stereotypes showing just two genders. Any true Christian does not depend upon this society to establish morals, and values into their young children. As the father of 3 daughters, I've equiped them with the cognitive ability to question everything and trust no one with an agenda designed to destroy the morals and values they learned growing up in a Christian household. My youngest was a huge "Hanna Montana" fan UNTIL Miley started twerking in a t-back making lewd sexual gestures on a Disney stage. She then threw away all her Hanna crap...on her own accord. If ya'll are really letting a muppet establish guidelines to live by, all I can say is: you do you....and I'll do me...
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Why is it priests and ministers can cross-dress, yet TV characters are not allowed to do so? Just another Christian double standard.
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Cindy L Edgar
Yes I agree with you
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Dave J
I think it's great. And one million moms isn't exactly a large organization. https://www.glaad.org/blog/its-not-one-million-its-one-meddling-mom
Go for it muppets! Show people that diversity is good.
Not gay, but I support the gay agenda: 1: Find someone to love. 2. Love them.
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Thom
Simple, indoctrinate and don't educate. This is the way schools are going.
Why are we trying to make children see things they should not? I see on a previous post the waiting for the triggered conservatives comment Well, so far as we can see, the "triggered" conservatives have a much better grip on reality. We also know kids should not be thrown into this type of world. Of course, I will be told I am wrong, a homophobe, racist and, all of the other wonderful names any liberal can label me as. Actually, I am a parent, an adult and, a believer that children need to be children.
It has been determined, social media is drawing more and more kids into a world of confusion. They are being told to believe they are only being a good person if they identify as bi or whatever. I don't want a television show which was once used as a teaching tool to turn into an indoctrination tool.
There are different people in the world but, children should not be forced to be see all of this at such a young age. Let them grow up and determine what they believe instead of it being shoved down their throats. These kids are being told people who are mentally confused are normal people. But, they are not, they are confused. If a boy puts on a dress to do make believe or play, this does not mean he is gay or bi or transgender, he is just playing.
Let kids be kids and don't force them to grow up.
https://thefederalist.com/2021/03/01/the-explosion-in-queer-sexuality-among-kids-is-not-a-natural-trend/
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Ilmenheru Terikson
If you read the federalist then we can safely say you are an enemy of the U.S. and likely supported the coup attempt on the 6th of january. No one but radical enemies of civilization and society read that tripe and take it seriously. So good job outing yourself as an enemy that only deserves mockery and contempt here.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Question for my fellow ministers and bishops.
When male Clergy “dress-up” to impress the general public with their “ornate, color-coordinated vestments” is this considered cross dressing— especially if the clergy-person is gay?
Or, can cross-dressers get away with cross-dressing, simply because they’re clergy persons?
One would think, that cross-dressing clergy, should be required to wear pink (instead of white) vestments, whenever they wanted to flaunt their wears, in front of the public.
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John Norris Campbell
In the 16 and 17th centuries it was the men in power who wore tights, powdered wigs and makeup. Pink and purple and scarlett were "power" colors. Fashion is a social construct, and most fashion designers are usually gay people...for whatever reason. So who really desides which clothes are 'manly' and which are fem? Why do gay bottoms generally prefer to wear frilly pink panties? Or butch women enjoy the trucker look, complete with a can of dip in their wranglers back pocket? All the world is a stage and in America, one is blessed to wear whatever they want, to look like whatever is in fashion...I recently saw a girl that self identified as a vampire, complete with sharpened teeth, jet black hair, and a really white/bleached out skin color...she was drinking, of course, a Bloody Mary.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Wow so much ahtred and bigotry and ignorance on display here JNC. If you are a cis male, then how do you know another at all about the preferences of G-men? The idea of tops and bottoms tells me you are very very ignorant of the typical relationship dynamic, and see it through the lens of homophobia which is an actual mental illness just FYI, as are all forms of bigotry unlike sexual preference so enjoy being the new looney tune of society that will be treated as if you are wrong to even exist and nothing you say or do will ever be seen as good by society which is what matters not your little cult.
You conflate so many bigoted ideas here its actually kind of hilarious in a sad and pathetic way. Gay men are not inherently into cross dressing. To even suggest that shows you to be well beneath even the lowest members of society such that you may as well go drink bleach as nothing you will ever say or do will portray you as other then vermin in need of extermination.
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John Norris Campbell
Hello llmenheru Terikson...My goodness! You assume so much about me, without even bothering to ask me why I have such opinions. "If you are a cis male" That is a lable that has never applied to me. Do I enjoy women sexual partners? Of course. They taste like cotton candy and Ivory soap...what's not to like? Do I enjoy men as sexual partners? Of course, but seeing as women already have two different holes to play with, I perfer men that like to top..I've crossdressed with both men and women just to add a different dimension to the sex scene...Have you ever worn crotchless panties while your girlfriend pegged you? I have..she even insisted that I wear her thigh highs with garters while we "lezzed out"...Seems that YOU, YOURSELF, are filled with the hate and bigotry you accuse me of having. Have you ever slept with another outside your race? I have. Have any idea what a "power bottom" is? I do because I was one..Ever go to a Gay bar to watch a drag show? I have, and the only thing you mentioned in your hate filled post that is true is that not all gay men are into Crossdressing. just the fun ones I like to mess with...So head back to your gramma's basement and enjoy your bleach cocktails.
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amacooke
I know one church in Australia where all the 'ministers' wear dusky pink vestments, but don't anyone think they are gay. (One guy was so enthusiastic with the swinging of the (catholic looking) censer that I thought he'd brain someone in the gathering.) Females are not allowed to be ministers, so there's no doubt that the wearers were male, and they swear they are inclusive but LGBTIQA+ people are not encouraged to join. Their inclusiveness means token beliefs in things like reincarnation and aliens. The group loved our tall blond female friend (to be point of three of the women bailing her up in a corner for a chat before the service - we'd only been there a few minutes), but basically ignored my husband, who looks like a tall chubby Santa, and me, the shorter chubby female. It was an odd experience we still smile over today.
As to whether any of the males felt they were cross-dressing? There was so much 'pretend' in that church it probably wouldn't have been noticed unless someone flaunted it. It takes all kinds ... :-)
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Lionheart
Yes, if Jesus (he/him/she/her) can wear long hair, looking more like a woman than a man, and also wear a white dress that apologists will say is a robe (but what’s the difference?), and have a meal with all of his/her 12 male friends. I guess that’s ok.
After all, if we are all (male & female) made in the Christian gods image, I can only assume that God is also a he/she 🤷🏼
Just sayin’ 🤪
🦁❤️
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John Norris Campbell
Hello Lionheart, I'd guess you'd have to get through all those pesky male pronouns all throughout the Bible in reference to Yah, as being 'he, his' as well as Jesus Christ being described as the "SON" of Yah....'And HE broke the bread..."...Look like a woman"?...Are you seriously gender sterotyping? Conan the Barbarian, a fictional character, also had long hair and wore a little skirt...Are you confused about his sexuality as well? No wonder ya'll cannot figure out which bathroom to use...To be made in God's image is a SPIRITUAL THING...Man is a "triparite", meaning Spirit, Soul, and Body...in Gen.2:7 we learn that when 'man' became a living soul, that soul was endowed with gifts of consciousness, self-determation, or 'mind and will'--these were to be the vessel into which the life of the Spirit was to be recieved.....YOU! Lionheart are so much more than what you've been led to believe...and you seem to be decieved into trading your birthright for a lie...
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Lionheart
Thank you John for your comment.
I notice you quote something from Genesis, so I assume you wouldn't quote something from the Old Testament that you didn't believe, or do you just pick and choose versus you like?
Assuming you do believe everything, you will then believe in what God approves of, such as slavery, and stoning people to death.
How do you feel about stoning a woman to death for not being a virgin before marriage as quoted in Deuteronomy 22:20-21? Should we still be doing that if God approves it, or has he changed his mind?
Without any demonstrable evidence that any god is real, even yours John, could it be that YOU have been deceived in being indoctrinated into a lie? Hence the reason all religionists of ALL religions, even yours John, only have faith to go by. Wouldn't it be nice if a real omnipotent god, if there was one, had the ability to come forward and prove to the world he/she is real. I think we both know that isn't going to happen, don't we?
I've been where you are John, until I came to the obvious logical and reasonable conclusion that I had been fooled. Talking snakes, and asses, and the existence of unicorns, and a woman made from the rib of a man, are just folk tales John. How long are you going to deceive yourself....and others?
Peace ✌🏻
🦁♥️
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Alan Meunier
Where were these snowflakes when Bug Bunny, etal did the EXACT SAME THING?
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Teej Johnson
Obviously because it goes against good Christian values to show others be accepting of those different from them. The only context where it should be acceptable is if the cross-dressers are being made fun of.
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John Norris Campbell
Bugs Bunny was a scam artist from Brooklyn running game on an idiot... And you can tell him I said so!
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Dan Anderson
It amazes me how many people think that because they suffer from the "yucks" that they must reject others who do not follow their specific ways.
If people are against one liking what another does not, then why do they NOT condemn those who like Liver & Onions?
We all have certain natural 'conditions' for lack of a better term that makes us unique from many others. Why should that cause the shunning of them? Are you "yuckers" going to condemn left-handed people because you are right-handed? Remember, they did that not too many years ago. If you look at some of the different definitions of the term "sinister", it merely means left-handed. (Remember, Jesus sits on the right hand of God, so who is on the left! Oh, no!)
If your religion teaches to hate someone who is homosexual, for example, you may want to find another church. NOWHERE in the KJV1611 does it even MENTION anything about homosexuality. What is taken for that these days is a complete misunderstanding and lack of knowledge of the culture and history of those times.
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John Norris Campbell
Hello Dan Anderson....Your playing on a very slippery slope....Relying on "religion" (a man made construct) to approve or disapprove of sexual preferences can go both ways..1.7 BILLION muslims follow their moral compass named Mohammed, who married Aisha when she was 6 years old but did not consumate the marriage bed until she was the ripe old age of 9....Now you may say "yuck", because little girls are not your thing but what about the Greeks? Little boys were their thing and it was considered "normal" according to their standards...Do you say "yuck" yet again? Are you some kind of hate filled monster trying to deprive others of the joys of pedophilia? So some people think it gross to stick ANYTHING up a mans butt (exit, not entrance) or to engage in fisting another woman solely to 'get her off'...If YOUR religion teaches you something is totally natural when it very obviously goes against nature..."you may well put up with it".The word "homosexual' was coined in the 19th century, so it's no wonder the bible made in 1611 has no mention of it...BUT what it does have in it is "sodomite" ; 'effeminate" and these things are not spoken of in a positive light...
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Dan Anderson
John - I think you have missed the direction in which I was going on this conversation. I have not claimed that I approve or disapprove of sexual preferences. So many people, sadly, DO, however. I do NOT say "yuck" to anything.
About the issue of Muhammad marrying Aisha, that is in the Hadiths, NOT the Qur'an. Historically, it has been shown that some who wrote the Hadiths had it in for Muhammad, writing a LOT of pejorative fabrications about him. Personally, I hold no weight in any of the Hadiths because we do not know who wrote them.
The term 'effeminate' has nothing to do with homosexuality. Neither does 'sodomite'.
What I was addressing is that there is a LOT of bigotry of different kinds in the world, supposedly promoted by the Abrahamic faiths. Most of it is not anywhere near factual regarding its teachings.
What do you think I may have mentioned that is "totally natural when it very obviously goes against nature"? I hope not, given that homosexuality is throughout nature. More than 1,500 species of mammals have populations of homosexual beings in them.
I look forward to hearing from you, hopefully clearing up what appears to be a misunderstanding.
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Cindy L Edgar
I don't think there is anything wrong with The Muppets showing different varieties of life just because the Christians are having so much difficulty with it doesn't mean their kids not going to see it in the world is a part of life get over it people move on it's time for change I grew up in a community in California with the gay and lesbian thing my mom owns a bar for gay people I never thought anything bad about it I'm bisexual so does that make me a bad person
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John Norris Campbell
Hi Cindy, if you are basing your identity as a good or bad person solely on who you have sex with, you may want to seek counciling addressing self-esteem issues. When you are pushing 70 years old will you still feel the same way?
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Cindy L Edgar
Now wait a second so it's nothing wrong with me being a bisexual person I am a pagan High Priestess ordained minister and I am proud of what I am I do not need counseling arrange things so it doesn't go against any rules of any Ministry the Only Rule it goes against is Christianity which those rules need to change
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John Norris Campbell
Hi Cindy, I agree...there is nothing wrong with a pagan High Priestess being bi...I'll say the same thing to you that I said to my own daughter when she was 16, when she said "Daddy I'm Gay"...'Do not use your current sexuality to define who you are...it's always in flux.." Meaning 'feelings change' but who you are does not. Trying to change 'rules' in another's belief system is simply not going to work and that is exactly WHY the Sunnis and Shia muslims have been killing each other for the last 1000 years....or why the Catholics have been trying to kill the protestents for about the same amount of time...I apoligize if I offended you.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
JNC your posts frequently show you to be severely mentally ill, including believing in delusions like gods. While you are free to think and feel as you like in the sanctity of your own head, in society you have to meet the standards of others, and sex is a major if not primary factor in society. Do you think at some age people stop having sex drives? especially women? Not true at all and in fact studies show that as our body stops producing the chemicals that drive procreation, our sex drives go way way up, and in fact most people 60+ are like super into sex 24/7 as the act itself helps fire up those chemicals production and quite literally help them feel young.
Its even been shown in studies that those with active sex lives tend to live longer and be healthier. All those 90 year olds that seem oddly spry and bright of mind and eye even as siblings years younger seem as infirm as could be, yep its cus they liked to bang a lot, especially in the golden years.
Betty White and the Golden Girls. Nuff Said.
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Cindy L Edgar
Comment removed by user.
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Laura McAllister
I think that if children learn they're different people in the world, maybe they will grow up not judging and hating each other. The hate needs to stop.
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flugo
'lama': I think that if children learn they're different people in the world, maybe they will grow up judging, evaluating lifestyles and behavior. This discernment needs to continue.
The above posting is an insidious conspiracy to indoctrinate the impressionable. The LGBTQxyz lifestyle is the antithesis of God's perfect design. It is deplorable, abominable, degrading and sinful.
Only Jesus can deliver the captives of sin!
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Thing is Flugo the god of Abraham is actual evil, based on every bit of text about him in the OT, NT, and the varied other holy texts that relate to that being. The only reason one might say they are not, is if they think that being defines good and evil, rather then the social values of humanity. And since we know such beings are not worthy of worship,adoration, nor our service, to push as you do only continues to identify you as one who has self dehumanized, and thus given all of the human species the right to treat you the same way we might a rabid mongrel.
You still cant seem to fathom, insular rhetoric as you speak actually empowers citizens in the U.S. to invoke stand their ground laws and kill you on the spot, as it meets the standard for acting as a potentially violent insular radical and threat to the safety of society.
In the coming years as more and more cases of stand my ground are invoked by law abiding citizens of colors and faiths you hate so much, and more and more far right evangelical types like you fall to the gun, and their families told they were killed legally, as they were the one in the wrong, maybe finally smooth brained creationists like you will dwindle in numbers enough to let civilization crawl out of the muck people like you hold our species down in.
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Mary Thompson
Only God should judge...
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flugo
'marson': You're ought to do your homework before embarrassing yourself! Jesus told us to rebuke: Luke 17:13; told us to judge: John 7:24; . We ae to be discerning, wary, watchful, etc, which involves making judgments, appraisals, etc. Your blather is misguided and erroneous.
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Brian Scott Hoff
Let's see if I understood you. Hate has a place in the church. The church teaches intolerance, discrimination, and racism. A god claims he knows you before you are born, you are born something other than heterosexual and gender, and the same god teaches us that you are an abomination. Indoctrination... what irony to claim indoctrination is a bad goal. I don't believe for a second that Disney is trying to create anyone to become anything.. only that it's fine if they do and others can be cool with that. Indoctrination is far easier to comprehend when we say an un-baptized child will not be welcomed to heaven & other silliness taught by churches. That same god's a designer and it's perfection includes eyes that actually don't optically see well, teeth that don't grow well, an appendix that does nothing but likes infections... on & on.
The book the church teaches from is written in the Iron Age and reveals nothing revelatory that would have helped to prove that it contained knowledge beyond anything comparable in the age it was written. In fact some descriptions of how the sun, moon, and "heavens" work is simply wrong. Your beliefs are illogical. Ignoring your opinions seems necessary.
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Teej Johnson
Lol, once again another story of conservatives being the real triggered snowflakes who need safe spaces.
I can only imagine these people sitting in the audience when my junior highschool (what we called it then) friends modeled pants and pantsuits in order to persuade the school authorities to allow females to WEAR PANTS to school - they would have been outraged about "girls looking like boys"? We were successful! (Do I hear gasps of outrage from these folks?) What about Roman soldiers wearing short-skorts, what about togas and kilts, what about men's gold chains rings and earrings which have been worn for DECADES? Please, you Tight-a** Club people, think "straight" wouldja?