A Christian college in Florida canceled a performance from renowned a capella group The King’s Singers just a few hours before they were scheduled to perform, citing the “lifestyle” of one of the members.
Now, fans are calling out the school’s decision as homophobic, but the school says they’re only holding true to their Christian values.
Cancel Culture
The King’s Singers were all set to perform at Pensacola Christian College on Saturday, February 11th. They’d been hosting a workshop for university students and had already begun rehearsing when they got the news: their concert that night was canceled.
The group only learned two hours before the concert – with an expected audience of 5,000 – was set to begin.
It was the first time in the group’s 55 year history that one of their concerts had ever been canceled for reasons other than the pandemic, war, or weather. The school’s reasoning?
“One of the artists openly maintained a lifestyle that contradicts Scripture,” it said in a statement.
Translation: One of the singers is gay.
https://twitter.com/ConnectPCC/status/1625351981077233664
The school’s “articles of faith” states as much. “We believe that God has commanded that sexual activity be exclusively reserved to a man and a woman who are legally married to each other,” it reads. Scripture forbids “sexual immorality including adultery, fornication, homosexuality, bestiality, incest, and use of pornography.”
The school says that the band was paid for the performance, but the members of The King’s Singers are still feeling the shock and the pain of the cancelation, describing themselves as “deeply saddened” in a statement.
“We look forward to seeing our friends in Northern Florida again soon, in a context where we’re celebrated for who we are as well for the music we make,” they wrote.
The Internet Responds
The incident prompted a wide array of reactions online, many of which were shows of support for the band.
Others, however, praised the school for sticking to its values even in the face of criticism.
Sunshine State Debate
This incident is the latest in a string of controversies highlighting Florida's rocky relationship with the LGBTQ community.
From the controversial ‘Don't Say Gay’ bill to a new law that could send teachers to prison for having ‘unapproved’ books with LGBTQ content in their classrooms, Florida has been ground zero for debates over LGBTQ rights.
Considering this is a private Christian college, some say the move was justified and that the school should be able to enforce whatever values it pleases.
Critics acknowledge that may be true, but question why the sexual oriention of the musical artist has any bearing in this instance.
What is your reaction?
117 comments
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Billie Jo Gomez
Shameful!! Enough said. 💔💔
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Rev Ned
“Taliban Christians” will be judged and found wanting.
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Shango MasterExorcist, D.D.
They were chosen for their high quality singing. Canceling them is a sin. Give me any Bible verse whatsoever, and I will interpret it to show that it is a sin to cancel singers on any basis other than discovering that they cannot sing.
If I hired this group, and I found out that ONLY ONE of them offended any idea of mine, I would be amazed at their virtue and get over my prejudice. What if one of them eats pork, forbidden in the Bible, should the group be humiliated for that?» Maybe better would be those who don't eat pork keep their opinions to themselves and just not eat pork.
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Colleen McAllister
Sad. Even though the College has the right to cancel the concert for whatever reason it is still a sad commentary on their beliefs. Even if they believe that homosexuality is a sin, are they so sure that none of the other singers are not sinners? Are we not all sinners? It seems quite hypocritical to me.
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Danny D. Maynard
I also find it strange that some Christians sects/cults focus only one one or two sins, and homosexuality is usually one of those. They specialize in the other deadly sins.
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Danny D. Maynard
I also find it strange that some Christians sects/cults focus only one one or two sins, and homosexuality is usually one of those. They specialize in the other deadly sins.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Where were their values earlier in the day as the group was hosting a workshop all day? I might believe it was about their so called deeply help Christian beliefs had they cancelled them from appear at all that day, but they decided to wait until two hours before the concert. What happened? Did one of their pastors make a pass at the one gay guy and get turned down? WTF?
Christians complain they are under attack and people are trying to cancel them. At the same time Florida is trying to remove all evidence and reference, “cancel” the entire LGBTQ community. Who is trying to cancel who?
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Wellness Counselor
The world is clearly confused as to what “sin” is; and what is and what definitely IS NOT public business. Sodom and Gomorrah was not about homosexuality. The story addressed “lust” and forcible gang rape. The term homosexual did not come into existence until the late 1800’s. Homosexuality was never mentioned in biblical text.
Thou shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22) It is by this scripture people justify the condemnation of a people. The word Abomination came into language in the 14th century. It stems from the 13c Latin “abominationem” (nominative abominatio), a noun of action of past-participle stem of abominari, meaning away, (ab) avoid as inauspicious (omen). The definition of auspicious is conducive to success, favorable.
This simply means that a relationship between 2 men will not produce life (offspring.) It does not mean that family can not be defined to include a life shared with others. It is not God but society that judges and condemns people. Any relationship with love is blessed! Who are we to tell a person that they must conform to their biological composition? Since when do we give the “flesh” authority over the spirit?
Further, when did it become acceptable for an institute of education or a house of worship to publicly make comment concerning whom or how a person has sex? What 2 consenting adults do with their bodies behind closed doors within the sanctity of the their relationship is NO ones business! That is between those 2 adults and God. But even God knows that it isn’t his business. Any religion that rejects his neighbor even if overcome in trespass does not follow the word of God or the way of Christ. If your church does not teach one to love your neighbor, you are in the wrong church.
And for the love of God, keep sex out of church!
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Danny D. Maynard
Ezekiel 16:49 tells us the real sins of S&G. Remember, there were few oases between these cities, built near to a water source or with access to one near by. Water is life, especially back then in a desert environment, where no service stations or respite inns existed, unlike today with our technologies and stock piles of water and food. Hospitality was life 2,000 years ago in the desert!
But, on all other topics of your comment, you are right on target. Well said, Wellness Counsellor!
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ServantOfJudgement
Everything you said is absolutely wrong excluding the quotation of a Bible verse. Your interpretation of the verse is fully wrong though. You have to do alot of talking to explain why the Bible doesn't mean what it says. I noticed that with those that have been given over to their delusions. It takes 40 times the words to explain a simple black and white biblical statement. That should be a red flag for you.
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Rev. Kameelah Stewart
If you are going to discard a singing group's performance because of one person's sexual orientation, then let's take it further, let's do away with every song that has ever been written, the operas, the ballets, and every gospel hymn, the movies the plays the music from current and past musical geniuses that ever existed, the screenwriters, the buildings that were constructed and designed, let's not let a doctor that can save your life because of his orientation, the truck drivers that deliver your foods, let's do away with every book that has been written or that favorite TV show you like to watch, let's do away with the clothes you wear or the shoes on your feet, or that judge that can mean the difference between life or death, let's do away with all things homosexual and what will you have? no home, no food no clothes, no entertainment, no books no internet, no cell phone or I pad's no paper to write on or ink, nothing, do you get my drift? This is why I say that Man will never have unconditional love, because we were blessed with choice, even in that we are the ones that put a limit on how far that unconditional love will go. And heads up, if you put a limit on it, it is not unconditional love. You cannot praise God for his love and then condemn his actions on how he loves because of it. You are not the judger, and you are not in a position to speak for God, You can't take the Bible and divide it up and use the content to confirm your own beliefs, you can't throw stones in a house that everyone has made of glass and not know that yours can be broken as well You are not the Father, and I am one who is glad you are not, it is not your place to know what God will love or not love, I for one am glad That our Father has unconditional love, because his children don't have it, and I am glad he sits on the throne that is not big enough for two.
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John D. Partin
I will raise your bet of "discriminating against all work of homosexuals by not using any of it" by the next and last step of "discriminating against all work of any sinners at all and not using any of it" to show you and everyone else here how ridiculous, over-the-top, and exaggerated your argument is!! Of course, we couldn't do without the work of any homosexuals in any field, anymore than we could do without the work of any other sinners. We live in a world full of sinners and are sinners ourselves, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't do as much as we can to stop the spread of sin and keep it under control, instead of its controlling us, until the world can be rejuvenated with the Last Judgment of God!! We demand that bad and murderous cops be fired, even though Jesus said that to even be angry with someone and curse him or her is spiritual murder, which makes us all murderers and deserving to be fired from jobs. We demand that priests or other adults who have sex with young children be defrocked or arrested, even though Jesus said that if we even look with lust upon someone, we have had sex with them, too. In short, we can't refuse to remove some gay people or straight people from jobs when they are harming or wrongly influencing young or any people, just because we can't get rid of all of the sin in this world all at once. Unconditional love has never meant loving everything that everyone else does. Jesus, who loved people unconditionally more than anyone else who has ever lived and who still loves everyone unconditionally more in Heaven than all of us do, still told and tells sinners to "Go and sin no more!". We do what we can to get rid of sin in Christianity and Christian choirs by not keeping gay choir members in it, and then leave the rest of the sin in the world that we can't get rid of ourselves to God. Gay people just don't belong in Christian choirs, once they are known to be gay, and have plenty of other venues to be in without their having to be absolutely everywhere and nobody is permitted to abstain from having them or allowed to refuse or dismiss them. It is love, not hate or bigotry, that makes us reject them from choirs to show them that they need to come out of their sinning, instead of the hate and homophilic bigotry that the pro-gay world shows towards them by telling them that they are "right to live as they do", which is leading them down to Hell. God's unconditional love on the throne of Heaven doesn't approve of homosexuality, either, but tells homosexuals and other straight sinners to repent of their sins!! I despise those Russians who attack and even kill gay people in Russia because they are gay, since you can't fight one sin (homosexuality) with another sin (violence against and murder of gays), but extremely homophobic actions don't invalidate the basic teaching of God against homosexuality. I'm glad that God is on the throne of Heaven, too, and not me or any of those bigoted Russians or you or anyone else, but let's let God be on the throne in our hearts, too, and not us on those thrones, and abide by His laws, not our own, and love sinners out of their sins by removing and correcting them, when necessary, just as we need to have done for ourselves.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Can't wait till cancel culture strikes Christian churches. No wonder people are leaning in droves
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Billie Jo Gomez
Shameful!! Enough said. 💔💔
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Clay Serenbetz
Jesus had nothing to say about homosexuals. What Christian values are they hallucinating?
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Daniel Gray
WRONG!!! Jesus did speak explicitly about sexual immorality in general and the nature of marriage. He denounced the former (e.g., Matt. 5:28; 15:19) and defined the latter according to Genesis 2:24: “For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh” (Matt. 19:5 AT; par. Mark 10:7–8). Nice spin but utterly false
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Lionheart
How do you know what Jesus ever really said, Daniel? There were no contemporary historians of his day ever wrote about him? Those historians that did write about what’s he’s supposed to have said, decades later, never met him 🤷🏼
🦁❤️
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Daniel Gray
I go by what is written. And How Lion can you prove that he didnt say it?
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Lionheart
Just as a heads up, and as a spoiler alert, Daniel, The Harry Potter series of books are also written, and they are fiction, so please don't get your hopes up.
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Daniel Gray
just a heads up and a spoiler alert Lion, every source you have tried to claim to prove there is no deity is fantasy. Can I prove it? Nope no more then you can prove that the Bible is fantasy. And that Lion is where you are going to lose each and every time you try as all you are doing is posting your OPINION, nothing more.
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Lionheart
You totally miss the point, Daniel, and that’s okay. I’m not out to prove there is, or isn’t, a Deity. I’m not even out to prove, or disprove that fairies exist. However, if there is sufficient demonstrable factual evidence that fairies, gnomes, elves, gods, Devils, Pixies etc., do exist, I’ll believe. Until then I’ll assume they don’t.
🦁❤️
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Daniel Gray
No Lion YOU miss the point. You have repeatedly tried in many threads to imply and or outright say that a deity is a myth and when you have been challenged to prove it you revert back to other myths and claim this is proof that a deity does not exist and you have used Harry Potter numerous times. You do know that these books do imply that there is a deity...right? Its my belief that there , its YOUR belief that there isnt one. Since neither of us can prove the other wrong its called "FAITH" and thats why you fail each and every time you try and imply or claim a deity does not exist. One of these day I am hoping you come to the understanding that this is your OPINION and nothing more.
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Lionheart
Nope, you still miss the point, Daniel.
I’m willing to accept your Deity exists, and even fairies. All I need is demonstrable evidence. Why is that hard for you to grasp and understand. Until then we all have to assume they don’t. That’s what evidence is all about, Daniel.
I hope you never have to sit on a jury and listen to faith, instead of evidence.
🦁❤️
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Clay Serenbetz
Genesis is the old testament. Jesus wasn't alive when the old testament was written.
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Daniel Gray
Genesis is the law of the christian faith and the Jewish faith and even the Islamic faith. Christ said he came to UPHOLD the law, so I guess I will take his word for it.
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Danny D. Maynard
Please look at the Title and Copyright Pages of your Bible. There you will find the names of the people to whom the contents are attributable and who made this translation. Not all Bibles are identical in content and form. Still, the contents are attributable to a person, a group of people or a company/corporation. At no point will you see God or Jesus one of the authors and translators. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew or Aramaic. The New Testament was written in Aramaic and Greek. Unless you can read those languages fluently enough, you cannot accept that your English translation is valid or correct. You must be being told what to believe, and you do not use your own intellect to determine it that is correct or not.
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Daniel Gray
And please take a look and the copyright of the sources you are trying so desperately to use to show there isnt a deity. Guess you dont like it when they come back and show they are not worth a bucket of warm spit.
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ServantOfJudgement
Jesus=God=The Word. If the Bible says it, Jesus said it. The account of everything in the old testament and new testament was given to us by God, which is Jesus. If its there, Jesus wants us to see it and is ultimately responsible for saying it. No sense in arguing, you either believe it or you don't. That has no bearing on the concept that the Bible is given by God. If there is no God the Bible was still written within the context that there is a God and that God gave us the most universally truthful document in our possession. Easy.
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Lori-Ann Neeb
History and archeology have done enough to prove the bible was written by men with their own selfish agendas. it 8s wrong in many places. Read it with an open and inquisitive mind taking all sides and sources into consideration. many so-called christians use it's words to try to back up their own interpretations . You need to open your minds and try to connect to the truth no found in the bible. The fact that all you can do lash out at anyone who does not agree with you just proves how weak your argument really is.
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Rev. Jim Sutton
Jesus may have spoken against "sexual immorality," but the specific kind(s) are never mentioned. As for "homosexual," that word was created/coined in 1868 by the same person, and at the same time, as "heterosexual." The first time "homosexual" appeared in any Bible was in some 1946 editions. Clay is right. The Bible never speaks about homosexuality; it was man who put it in based on a misinterpretation.
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ServantOfJudgement
Of course the Bible speaks against men laying with men. You can call it homosexualism if it pleases you. God calls it men laying with men and men lusting after one another. From the biblical perspective, you can't get by with sin by calling it a word not found in the Bible.
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Brien
You are a perfect example of organized brain washing. I only hope that Lionheart gets a laugh from this.
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Daniel Gray
the only laugh he is going to get is how gullable you actually are. You are the perfect picture of brainwashing from the people who are so desperate to prove there is no deity. Does the word hypocrite come to mind when you are doing the exact same thing you are accusing others of doing?
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
“sexual immorality including adultery, fornication, homosexuality, bestiality, incest, and use of pornography.”
hahahahahahaha and they only blamed the gay guy...hahahahahaha because non of the others were using porn, or fornicating, or bestiality...blame the gay dude for sexual immorality hahahahaha
chins...what are we gonna do with them...
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Sexual immorality including adultery, fornication, homosexuality, bestiality, incest, and use of pornography is all in the Bible. As is insist. These Christians should try reading the book they are promoting.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
First of all, the college can cancel a concert if the college wishes to do so. Depending upon the contract certain penalties and costs may have to be paid. And it doesn’t lower my opinion of the college a bit, as my opinion of the combination of the words ‘Christian’ and ‘school/college’ have already resulted in my considering the school a joke undeserving of being labeled an educational facility. Such ‘schools’ are real life versions of Hogwarts where Slithering is the only class grouping.
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Rev Ned
“Taliban Christians” will be judged and found wanting.
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Stephen Mohlaloga Makgoathane
Christians behavior is: When people are doing things that are not acceptable and approved by the Holly- Bible. You ignore them, you do not interfere,nor disturb them. The least,pass your comment. Most important " leave them peaceful. Reason being: When your time comes for celebration of any event, these people doesn't come and disturb.Let us show them that CHRISTIANS are peaceful people, Christians demonstrate LOVE AND PEACE ( NOT HATRED) Because, very important: THEY ARE GOD'S CREATION) Clay, you are correct to say Christ Jesus said nothing about them, let's do the same. We shouldn't even Judge them ' No. Let us teach them the Christian Behaviors.Which is Good manners. I even feel sorry for them, the least we can do is to Pray for them. ( NOT HATRED) Thanks. Reverend Stephen Mohlaloga Makgoathane South Africa.
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Brien
Sorry, you are wrong. Christianity identifies all that is not of the doctrine to be evil. So, in retort I say that all of Christianity is evil, murderous, and war mongering. You might object to this, just as the belief system you spout is just as objectionable to others.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
While college officials may say scripture forbids “sexual immorality including adultery, fornication, homosexuality, bestiality, incest, and use of pornography”, I can assure “sexual immorality including adultery, fornication, homosexuality, bestiality, incest, and use of pornography is widely happening in the student population and within the college faculty.
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Theresa Gull
I don’t subscribe to any religion. I am but a divine energy here to have a human experience.
I don’t need a religion to tell me to be a good person. I don’t need religion to tell me not to steal, or lie. And I certainly don’t need religion to tell me who to love.
I think a lot of people need to be taught how to MIND THEIR BUSINESS. Now that is something I can get behind. Perhaps one of the Ten Commandments should have been “Mind your damn business.”
Why the #€*¥ anyone thinks other people’s business is their own truly infuriates me.
Love thy neighbor - a teaching of the Bible, am I correct?
Sure. Maybe he should have read the fine print before giving money to that college. I sure as hell wouldn’t have given them a dime.
Just my opinion. Don’t need to debate about it.
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Rev. Kameelah Stewart
If you are going to disregard a singing group because of one person's sexual orientation, than don't stop there, discard every song that has ever been written by a gay writer, let's get rid of all the movies and actors that played in them, the screen writers restaurant owners, past musical geniuses that were gay let's include any building that was constructed, and designed and don't go into to them, find the ones that designs cars and let's not buy them and every book that was ever written let's get rid of those too oh let's not forget about the clothes you wear or the many inventions that we use, let do away with doctor's nurses and lawyers and judges who are afraid to come out, oh and let's not watch that favorite TV show either, let's discard all things homosexual and you will not have a house to live in, food to eat cars to drive schools to attend. Do you get my drift? God is the judger of all things you can't speak for him, for he is a loving God is he not? This is why I say that Man will never have unconditional love as we have been blessed with choice and as humans, we are the ones that place a limit on how far that love will go. Thank You Father God for blessing us with Your unconditional love, because your children don't have it. You can't praise God and yet condemn his actions at the same time, if you are truly accepting of God's love you are not in the position to single out who he is allowed to give it to. You are not the Father, and I am sure that I am one of many that are thankful for it.
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Rev. Jim Sutton
Yup. The "college" really subverted Scripture. My question to the "college" --- Give me the EXACT Scriptures (book, chapter, verse) that EXPRESSLY "forbids" what you claim. Obviously, the "college" is no where near as tolerant and accepting as Jesus Christ. Talk about lacking "diversity and inclusion." And this is supposedly a "kind" college?
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Danny D. Maynard
I also find it strange that some Christians sects/cults focus only one one or two sins, and homosexuality is usually one of those. They specialize in the other deadly sins.
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Eric Norrbom
We are all children of the same universe.
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John P Maher
W T F PILGRIM, W T F ???
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Rev. Kev
They're a private school. They can set their own rules. Anyone who doesn't like it is free to hold their own positions. Just don't go there.
I do have an issue with tossing the 'phobia' word around anytime someone doesn't hold the same political, religious, or social ideology as others. These people see homosexuality as a sin. It's their sincerely held belief. Which they have a right to hold. So long as they don't actually harm others or otherwise break the law because of that.
Not approving of homosexuality, or homosexual activity, isn't necessarily a phobia. A phobia is an irrational, strong fear. Saying something is a sin isn't the same as fearing it.
People are free to hold their religious beliefs in peace. People are free to disagree with those beliefs in peace. Part of living in a free society is being able to accept others have beliefs or things to say we don't agree with. I just hope we can act civilly as a society and voice such disagreements in a calm, peaceful arena.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Rev. Kev Christians like to publicize their beliefs and faith in court of Public Opinion. What its really doing is showing the everyone especially the youth in America just how hateful and intolerable they are of people who they don't like. All it does it turn the youth of America ageist the Christian religion.
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James Riggle-Johnson
@Rev. Kev... I would call cancelling a performance because of one members sexual orientation irrational as you described a phobia. Also, why did they let them host a workshop all day and not be offended by the man’s gayness. So, why wait until 2 hours before the concert? Why didn’t they cancel the workshop as well. They need to be consistent to be taken seriously.
I don’t necessarily disagree with anything you’ve said. They do have the right to disallow anyone as long as they don’t break the law, but it still doesn’t make it right. Christians keep saying they are under attack and people are trying to cancel them. All this is happening while the state of Florida is trying to remove all evidence and reference, “cancel” the entire LGBTQ community.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Let's not forget the bible is filled with stories of of sexual immorality including adultery, fornication, homosexuality, bestiality, incest, and use of pornography.
Let's start with Ezekiel 23:20. There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
Please feel free to add you favorite Bible verse that deals with sexual immorality including adultery, fornication, homosexuality, bestiality, incest, and use of pornography to the post.
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Daniel Gray
Isnt it just so funny that you have some people lying claiming Christ didnt say anything against homosexuality, when in fact he did. And then you have the same people getting in an uproar when Religious schools require that entertainers and staff follow the guidelines and tenants of the religion in which the school follows. Like it or not they dont have to follow the flavor of the month just to make some of you happy.
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Lionheart
I bet you have an audio file that was downloaded at the time and found in the Nag Hammadi scrolls…right, Daniel, to prove what your Jesus guy ever really said? 🤣
As a spoiler alert, the Harry Potter books are also fictional, just in case you believe everything you read. 🤭
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Daniel Gray
So tell us Lion, if Christ is fictional as you claim then why are you making such a fuss about what he said?
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Lionheart
Wouldn't you be upset, or at least concerned, if millions of people believed in a different fictional character than you, that led people to kill others because of their belief in that fictional character, or even commit suicide because they were not matching up to the tenets set by that cult?
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Rev. Jim Sutton
If Jesus specifically spoke against "homosexuality," give the specific book/chapter/verse where "homosexual" or "homosexuality" is specifically mentioned.. "Sexual immorality" covers a lot. Plus, it's a little difficult to speak about something when its 'label' doesn't exist.
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Nicholas J Page
And what about the minister's who abuse children and sexually assault them etc Who get covered up by the pope the church of England etc but always get away with it for years.Wake up America don't criticise gays and straights and others when The Vatican and Church of England cover up.What men do who are supposed to be doing the lord's work.
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William Joseph Moczan
Sorry to tell you how you are all misinformed but: Just to let you know. You're not even going to Heaven let alone becoming a Church or anything related because you used your email and name to be a person on the internet. And there's only Heaven and Hell. And I'm NO Rev. I am just a Minister among one perfectly good thing for I don't sin and funny thats' all I see. And if you want to be smart try learning... Paying for it will never work.
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
I am happy to learn the King's Singers are still extant. I have a couple of albums they did about 40 years ago of Madrigals and other Medieval songs.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
sorry xchin taliban but if you're looking for jesus to back you up...ain't gonna happen. because...all the words that you all claim he said, he never did. those words were put into his mouth by people decades, if not centuries later. it's all make believe. and if one were to believe what was written about jesus then one can only conclude that he was gay. this in fact is why the church is so adamant that jesus never married and had children, he was gay and had no interest in women other than his beard and bestie...mary m. therein lies the irony, all those self-appointed 'good' x chins claiming the jesus spoke against being gay when in actuality he was blindingly gay. 30's, single, never married or dated, hung around with his guy friends, camping and sleeping out, one woman who hung around with all those guys but didn't date any of them, being beachy and snappish at people like a good drag queen, healed people as so many gays in health care do...clearly jesus was gay and...his father had him killed because of it. sheesh...chins...what can you do with them
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Jenifer Dawn Brown
What bothers me most about this incident isn’t their policy. Yes, it’s hateful and archaic. But that’s their denomination, it’s not going to change any time soon.
The event organizers should never have put their college and the King’s Singers in this awkward and shameful situation by scheduling them to begin with. The group is secular, so Of Course they don’t follow the college’s strict lifestyle policies.
Did the organizers not do any due diligence at all? Do they just expect their archaic policies to be the default for human behavior? News flash, it’s not. Did they really think that an all-male singing group isn’t going to have at least one gay member, and that he wouldn’t have his perfectly normal life visible on social media?
It’s like ordering a rack of ribs and being surprised it’s not kosher.
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Amy Varela
Clearly, "true, christian values" are homophobic. If their god didn't want people to be homosexual, he should not have made it an option. Either that god is weak and ineffectual or a sadistic monster.
Or, he doesn't exist and people are the sadistic monsters who made their god in their own image.
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phwly
I wonder how it makes the gay Christian students at the school feel.
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Hadmels Rafmil De Frias
Interesting to read some of the responses. Those who believed the Bible dropped down from Heaven as we have it today are really very closed minded. The word homosexuality did not exist in the Bible until the 1950's as a misstranslation of an already existing misstranslation. If you noticed when you read the Hebrew Scriptures you are reading the teaching of a tribal religion as "God's" only concern was the Jews and no other humans. Thus the "God" who created us all only was caring for the Jews and not for all of humanity, strange? ... Second, the words in Scripture were severly mistranslated and words such as afiminate, homosexuals were added. In reality the Scriptures are condeming sex with children, and the practice of temple prostitution and ritual sex. Another interesting fact is Sodom which is used to promote hate, yet scripture tells us what was the real sin of Sodom, lack of charity. Another fact is that in the story it is clear that the actions are not of a loving homosexual relationship but of rape, that is what is bein condemned.
For me what is sad, is that many of us here in the ULC forget that the principles of this community are respect and acceptance. If you are here and are telling that you faith is "superior" than another, or that your holy book is way more important than the holy book of other traditions then you have missed the point of being in a universalist church. Let us all remember that God is creator of all, therefore the Divine is present is all traditions, and belives that do not harm others.
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Bryan Michael Richard MacLeod
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. I Corinthians 6:9-10 NKJV https://bible.com/bible/114/1co.6.9-10.NKJV
Take it how you want but it's clear as mud.
And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. II Peter 1:19-21 NKJV https://bible.com/bible/114/2pe.1.19-21.NKJV
Let's just be fleshly right guys? We must die to the flesh and live for the spirit...
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Brien
So, I guess the KKK would be welcome in your group then. They were a "godly" group too. Amen brother and pass the salt...😁
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Bryan Michael Richard MacLeod
What's salt if it lost its flavour... We must be salt and light brother and hold accountable others in the church regardless of personal standpoint on orientation and acts...
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Lionheart
You've been reading that book again haven't you, Bryan?
I've told you before that if you keep reading that silly old book you'll be grounded, and there will be no pudding after dinner.
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Bryan Michael Richard MacLeod
Which book are we referencing?
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Lionheart
That book of, fiction, mythological stories, and silly religious claims, that many call the Bible. You know, Bryan, the one you keep referencing that’s written by people who never met those they were writing about.
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Robin Angela Scroggins
The school did the right thing. We must obey and follow God's Word without compromise! In the Bible David had a spirit on him. As he played the harp that Spirit cast demons out of Saul. That Spirit was the Holy Spirit!!! The gays have a spirit on them also. While they're singing do we want that spirit to be cast out among the crowd? That spirit is of Satan, not of God. As true Christian leaders, not only must you guard and protect yourself, you must guard and protect " the flock".
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Brien
You and John should get together. You both seem to be from the same hate group. Tell me, without the sermon, how are any of the people you hate hurting you?
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John D. Partin
She doesn't and I don't hate gay people because telling them that they are sinning, the same as telling other people who are sinning that they are, is love, not hate or bigotry, and trying to keep them from suffering the end consequences of their sinning. It is hate to tell people who are sinning that "they aren't sinning". Pedophiles and rapists and domestic abusers aren't doing anything against me personally, either. So, according to you, should I and other people not care about their sinning or condemn it? That is ridiculous for you to say and "think"!!
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Brien
John once again you don't read what is posted. I will repeat: Tell me, without the sermon, how are any of the people you hate hurting you? And yes, telling someone they are not welcome, ( sinful, against your god), is hate. You really can't see beyond yourself can you? Peace ✌️
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John D. Partin
Once again, I read your post and responded to it, but an answer that you don't like isn't the same thing as not answering you. Again I'm not hating anyone by telling them that they are sinning or nobody could ever be told that they are doing wrong, which would make this world even more of a madhouse than it already is. What applies to everyone else applies to gay people, too. We don't tell gay people that they are sinning to exclude them or because we don't want them around, but only to wake them up to their spiritual condition and try to get them to come out of it, out of love, the same as we would do for alcoholics and drug addicts and domestic abusers and child molesters and all others who are stuck in wrong behavior and "thinking". Since nobody can tell you the truth without your considering it a "sermon", there is no way to avoid "sermonizing" to you. Gay people aren't doing anything against me personally, other than helping to drag down the morals and spiritual condition of society, anymore than someone who is about to commit suicide is doing anything to me personally, but we intervene with them not because they threaten us and only to deliver them out of their wrong thinking. Acceptance isn't more important than love and truth.
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John D. Partin
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Lionheart
Are you getting your stories that you speak of, from the same place as John Partin, from a book? Do you always believe everything you read, Robin? I’m just asking for a friend that believes the Harry Potter books are true.
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Hershel Franklin
What a shame the school didn’t just let the group sing. I doubt the gay singer was going to make any statements on stage about his sexual preference nor was he going to demonstrate what he and his partner did in private. They would have sang psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs to the satisfaction of everyone involved. People would have left having been blessed by the music rather than shamed by the conduct, and I’m referring to the conduct of the school.
David engaged in heterosexual conduct with Bathsheba and then had her husband Uriah murdered. He was a singer and a writer of music. A work of his, we think, is Psalm 23. I have no intention of stopping the reading and singing of that sacred verse just because he was an adulterer.
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Jim Krajewski
Is it right to use a Sin against a Sin? Judge not ... Let he who is without Sin ...
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Lionheart
But if sin is a very silly religious construct, which it is, why does it matter? 🤷🏼
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John D. Partin
If sin were actually "a very silly religious construct" and didn't actually exist, there wouldn't be anything that was wrong to do and this world would be even more insane than it already is and public order and safety would be totally non-existent with rapes, murders, molestations, and all other crimes happening everywhere with no laws or morals anymore against non-existent sins or crimes. Even the person here who said that "sin is a silly religious construct" doesn't really believe that because he enjoys the benefits, law, and order, the same as everyone else, of sin's not being "a silly religious construct" and its being taken very seriously and fought against. So, his statement is very unthinking, as usual, and itself is not to be taken seriously at all and is a very silly secular, atheistic and humanistic construct!!
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Lionheart
Still a religious construct, John. We need man made law and order to keep everyone as safe as possible. They possibly created the “Sin” and “Eternal Damnation” construct to help keep you Christian’s in line from raping and assaulting because there were so many not abiding by law and order. Sadly though, even your man made construct of “sin” hasn’t deterred some of you Christian people from being very naughty. Catholic Priests are a good example of that. Know what I mean, John? I very much doubt you do, you are too religiously indoctrinated. 🤷🏼
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John D. Partin
You are still not understanding that saying that "there is no sin" and "it is a silly religious construct" means that "nothing is wrong to do". It doesn't matter in which context, religious or secular, you are saying that "nothing is wrong to do because sin and wrongdoing are a construct of man", since the end result is the same in both cases. You want there to be a distinction between saying that "sin is a religious construct" and "crime and wrongdoing of any kind is a merely human construct", so that you can dishonestly claim to be "better" than sinners in religion, but those who violate religious laws and rules and those who violate human laws and rules both agree with you that those laws and rules are "just made up and human constructs" and so ignore and don't follow them. Order and safety in society depend on people's not thinking that religious or secular laws are "just human constructs and so not to be followed" and when people decide that religious laws are "just constructs that people made up", it won't be long before they decide that the secular laws prohibiting murder, rape, and other crimes are also "just constructs that people made up and so should be ignored and not followed". There haven't been ANY!!!! serial killers or rapists or child molesters (in the priesthood or outside of it) or any other criminals who were devoutly following Christ's teachings of loving your neighbor as yourself and doing unto others as you would have others do unto you, but only those who weren't following those teachings. So, following Christ's teachings are certainly relevant to public safety and order and aren't outmoded principles and merely human constructs, since ignoring and disobeying them have a very detrimental effect on society. Sins can't be merely human constructs because of the obvious fact that casting rules against sinning aside are what people do who are making things up for and to suit themselves and so wouldn't be making up those rules that they knew that they were only going to cast aside, anyway. Why bother with making those rules, instead of going directly to the ignoring and violation of them and skip a step in the process and the rigmarole. So, humans didn't come up with religious or secular laws by themselves, but only through God's inspiration to restrict just what they would do on their own. Crimes and sins come from human beings, but religious laws come from God. What about secular sinners or criminals, since you only want to focus on religious violaters all the time and pay no attention to your own violaters?!! Know what I mean, Chickenheart?!! I very much doubt that you do because you are too atheistically and humanistically indoctrinated and only see things very one-sidedly and through your very narrow anti-Christian lens!!
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Lionheart
No I'm not at all, I'm saying we need laws to govern the people that have appropriate real punishments. Man made religious rules that you want to call "sin", are just that...man made, and do very little to nothing at all, evidenced by the miscreant catholic priests, many others, and even people like yourself, being rude and offensive, because that's all you know. In the eyes of your made up god you can say and do whatever you want with no retribution, other than your mythical place of Hell for very naughty people....if they want to believe it. 🤣
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John D. Partin
I tried to send you a reply, but both ULC and you think that you are too delicate to be told the truth and you can dish it out, yet can't take it, and I'm tired of wasting any more time on your bigotry and hypocrisy. So, go on in your fear and be thankful that you have ULC looking out for you.
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Lionheart
All I do is try to be as pleasant as I can be, John, stating logical facts, mixed with some humor at times. Much like I would expect Christian’s to be, but somehow, many struggle to do that 🤷🏼
Good luck with future posts, my friend. 🤗
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John D. Partin
If "in the eyes of your made up god" and "your mythical place of Hell for very naughty people" and "even people, like yourself, being rude and offensive, because that's all you know" (because I contradict your delusion about yourself that you are a "lionheart" and tell you the truth that you are a Chickenheart, since you go along in cowardly fashion with the ungodly worldly unthinking atheistic herd) and other such disrespectful and offensive remarks are your version of "being as pleasant as you can be", you don't have any idea of what pleasant actually means and should stop considering yourself to be such until you do. You are only getting back what you give to others, even when you aren't honest enough with yourself to admit that that is what you are doing, as the herd that you moo and amble along with believes in doing. If you want different treatment, first be truly different yourself and stop playing games with yourself and others that you already are. "No, I'm not at all", while you are going along with atheistic and humanistic indoctrination, is just more evidence of your self-deceit and blindness about yourself and more evidence for the prosecution. Keep it coming!! First, remove the beam from your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. Hell doesn't stop being real just because you and others don't believe that it is, anymore than life on other planets doesn't exist because some people don't believe that it exists. As your countryman William Shakespeare said "There is more in Heaven and earth than is dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio". Puny human understanding isn't the measurement of what is real or unreal in the universe. Give it time and you will experience it for yourself and then know that it is real, when it's too late!! If you and others don't want anything to do with God, He will give you what you want and let you have it your way, without Him forever. That is Hell and you will have only yourself to blame when you are there! Many people are in Hell already in this world and just continue on in it, even more so, after they die.
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Lionheart
The reason we don't believe in Hell, Heaven, Talking snakes, Talking Donkey's, Adam and Eve, God, Unicorns, all listed in the book you revere, and also Fairies, Leprechauns, Demons, Santa Clause, Elve's, etc, all listed in other books of fables, is very simple, John, and that is....there is no supporting evidence. It really is as simple as that.
Can I prove any of those listed above don't exist? Of course I can't, I actually would like to think there are fairies, and trust me, I would believe, if one showed up, to give me the evidence I needed. I think we both know they aren't gonna do it, though, don't we, John?
You are more than welcome to believe in Fairies, Gnomes, Elves, Gods, Unicorns, talking snakes and Donkey's, an invisible man in the sky that you believe is listening to you.....as much as you want to. John, if that's what you need to get you through life....go for it. Those imaginary thoughts in your head, that many of us shook off as "not being real" as children, are obviously giving you some form of comfort, so enjoy them. 🤗
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John D. Partin
You believe in your own imaginary things, despite your supposedly "only scientific" beliefs, which put "talking snakes, talking donkeys, Fairies, Unicorns, Leprechauns, Elves, Goblins, Hobgoblins, and all other dreams and fantasies that you 'think' exist 'only among superstitious people'" to shame and which they have far more sense than to believe. And those are "a mindless universe that is still capable of synchronizing, calibrating, coordinating, and maintaining itself" and "intelligence coming out of unintelligence and unconsciousness". You and other atheists and non-believers have far more faith than any Christians have ever had and so you have no reason for looking down on Christian faith or feeling "superior to or wiser than Christians", but not having a reason for your beliefs hasn't ever stopped you from having them and so why would that be an exception? It is reasonable to assume that a house had a builder, even when you didn't see it built, and that a pile of lumber didn't just instantaneously assemble itself into a house. So, it is infinitely more reasonable to assume that the very much more complex universe had a builder and didn't just put itself together, either, and doesn't maintain itself by itself without any Mind behind it. If the universe really worked the way that you say that it does and mindless things did anything for themselves, piles of lumber would be constantly assembling themselves into houses, cars would be driving themselves around and getting their own gas and fixing their own flats and making repairs on themselves, and all other inanimate unthinking things would be doing everything for themselves, and construction workers and taxi drivers and all other workers would be out of a job, but you can't give me even one verified example of any of that happening, despite my asking you for that example of a self-driving car repeatedly to "prove your point". Yet, you assume on the same basis of no evidence that the entire universe works that way of mindless things taking care of themselves!! That is how unscientific you are, enough to make the believers in Fairies and the other beliefs that you ridicule and feel falsely "superior to" look like Master Logicians and Supreme Scientists and PhDs by comparison!! Again, what you can't get to happen here on Earth, you can forget all about the whole rest of the universe doing!! You can't prove your illogical beliefs, either, but that doesn't stop you and other atheists from believing them!! But if they help you to get through life and give you any comfort, I guess that we can understand why you would need even such illogical beliefs as those and have to make allowances for people down on your level. Those imaginary "thoughts" in your head, which many of us were too intelligent and logical even to believe as children, are obviously giving you some comfort and so enjoy them, and we adults in the room will stick to actually scientific thinking. If one of your imaginary beliefs ever turned up and showed itself to be real, we might believe it, but we both know that they aren't going to do that, don't we, Chickenheart? With what judgment you judge, you shall be judged, and the measure that you mete shall be measured to you again. If a human being doesn't instantly jump when you say "jump" and do whatever you say to do, you don't say that he doesn't exist, but, by your double standard and hypocrisy, you say that about God, who doesn't jump when you or other people say "jump", though not everything we ask for would be good for us or good at the time or better than another good. As usual, you evaded your not being as pleasant as you can be and your herd conformity by all of this smokescreen of talking about fairies, etc.
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Lionheart
Nope! Wrong again, John. I only believe in logical facts, of which you don't seem to have any.
By the way, children are still dying in Hospitals, and sports players are still thanking their god for their successes. Weird...right? Are you happy with your God, John? I see he didn't do anything about those thousands that got squashed in that earthquake. I bet they didn't believe in your god, right? That's the way you think isn't it? 🤷🏼
I didn't read your long diatribe. Try and keep them short, and more to the point. Try original thought if you can. Do you understand what paragraphs are? Try putting in a few breaks every now and then. I bet English wasn't your best subject, right? Keep at it and don't give up.
By the way, I never did ever ask if you also believe in fairies? If you don't, please can you explain why not, and try also applying that same logic to your god that you believe is real.
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John D. Partin
"Nope", really? Do you also write or say "Okey dokey" or "Hunky dory" or "Gosh Darn" or "Golly Gee Wiz" or some other substitute "English", while lecturing me about English, whenever you get stressed out and can't come up with any intelligent reply to something? If so, why aren't your posts a constant stream of nothing but those made up excuses for words and no actual words at all, since your posts prove that you aren't capable of any intelligent responses?!! Your not even knowing or admitting that you are always wrong and don't know any logical facts prove that you aren't capable of knowing if anyone else is wrong. You don't even know that Trumpelstiltskin is wrong about everything that he says or does, and everyone who isn't brain dead from birth or brainwashed and hypnotized by him all over the world knows that he is wrong!! If you can't even understand and accept that obvious example of wrong thinking and actions as wrong, you can forget all about knowing that I or anyone else is "wrong". You don't know logical facts when they are put right in front of your face and so your saying that "I don't have any" is just more evidence of your confusion!! Your saying that you "only believe in logical facts" and your actually doing so are two entirely different things. Your not ever understanding anything is once again evidenced by your still not understanding and accepting why God doesn't heal all children of cancer and solve all of the rest of the problems in the world, after all the hundreds of times that it has been exhaustively explained to you that God can't just let people go without any consequences for their sins at all, and is proof of your Alzheimer's as well!! You aren't actually happy with your disbelief in God and believing only lies about Him or the imaginary "god" that you have made up in your own "brain"!! Deal with that unhappiness first before lecturing anyone about "unhappiness" that you have just dreamed up that they have and face the truth about yourself first, if you ever recover from your dementia enough to be able to do that!! You proved once again that any sentence longer than "if" is too much for your very limited mental abilities and that it is what is being said to you that is beyond your "comprehension", and not how it is said, which is just your smokescreen for your severe limitations. So, paragraphs are irrelevancies to your basic lack of comprehension. As stated at the start of my post here to you, you show that you don't understand English and merely transfer your lack of understanding onto me or someone else. Why should I care or why does it matter how I say anything to you, which is just water poured over a rock, anyway, and nothing sinking in or getting through to you?!! Keep practicing your not understanding anything and following your Alzheimer's and don't give up, which you couldn't give up if you tried!! Back again at the evasion of "fairies"? "Fairies" aren't any part of Christianity, which it is useless explaining to your dementia ravaged "brain", but, anyway. God isn't in the same category as "fairies", which all reasonable people understand and so it is more evidence of your unreasonableness that you don't understand it. What disproves "fairies" has no bearing on God whatsoever and doesn't disprove Him, since nothing can disprove Him and everything proves His existence, which again is beyond your feeble "comprehension". Enough pearls cast before pigs with you again!!
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Lionheart
It looks as though you have spent more time replying to me again, John, with whatever you said, and again with only one paragraph. You'll get it eventually, John. Try praying about it. Perhaps your god might listen to you 🤭
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John D. Partin
Any post at all to you is wasted, no matter how short or paragraphed or anything else, because of your Alzheimer's and mental defectiveness. So, go on in your idiocy, since you can't do anything else, and we will go on knowing that is the truth about you!!
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Lionheart
Yayyy! I might be getting through to you at last. A short paragraph, and still nonsensical, but it's a start. Great job! 🙌
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John D. Partin
"Nonsensical" to actually nonsensical and mentally defective people, such as yourself, is only more evidence of your mental defectiveness and Alzheimer's for the prosecution, and so keep that evidence coming, Chickenheart!!
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Lionheart
Thank you for being the perfect example of a rude and bigoted Christian. I'm sure your God is very proud of your un-Christian behavior. You are the perfect example of why no one should have the same religious belief that you do. I bet you are under the impression that you will go to your heaven....right, John?
Who in their right mind would want to go to heaven and meet someone like you and your caustic irreverant behavior.
If I had any doubts about the reality of a God, which I don't, you would instantly convince me that your god isn't it. Thanks for being a very bad example, and for convincing me to stay well away from any religion. I wonder if you have the same effect on others that might just be wondering, and hovering on the fence?
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John D. Partin
Telling people the truth about themselves is Christian and just following the example of Jesus toward the scribes and Pharisees in calling them whited sepulchres and a brood of vipers. The truth about yourself and other people isn't usually nice and sweet, and isn't the lies that you tell yourself and they tell themselves about yourselves. If that turns you off from Christianity, the fault isn't with the truth, but with your wrong understanding of Christianity, since there isn't any nice, sweet, and lovely way to wake up sin soaked and blinded and worldly people, such as yourself, to the truth about yourselves, and you have to be hit right between your eyes with the truth and not be pussyfooted and played around with!!
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Lionheart
Sadly, you are deluded to what truth is, even though you will say I don’t have the truth, because that’s all you know. That’s okay, John. One day you might wake up, and realize your god is as fake as you are.
By the way, children are still dying of cancer, players are still scoring goals giving thanks to your god. Your god is as pathetic as Biden. At least Biden is real, and alive……just.
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John D. Partin
You don't even figure out things or people correctly in this world. So, how much less are you capable of or going to be figuring out anything in the universe and beyond this world or human comprehension?!! Not at all is how much less!! You "thought" that Trumpelstiltskin was a "great president" and "the greatest president ever", the same as all the rest of his hypnotized and brainwashed drones, slaves, and zombies do, when you were in the abyss of that indoctrination, and still cling to that a great deal, and only came out of it to any extent when you were just overwhelmed by the truth of his defeat and now have switched to the camouflage of saying that "you are only for the conservatives and Republicans, and not personalities" or some other such evasion to cover up your wrong "thinking". You went along with Trumpelstiltskin's right wing propaganda that "people fleeing from gangs and persecution in Central America are invading this country to take over and be used by Democrats to get power", instead of doing unto others as you would have others do unto you and being hospitable to the stranger in your midst, since the Jews were strangers in the land of Egypt. You blame Biden for the lingering and persistent effects of your guy's mismanagement of this country's affairs because responsible handling of it was beyond his very limited ability and would have cut too much into his Twitter and TV watching time, though even you know that that will take a long time to overcome. Your wrong "thinking" is too long a list to get into fully here, but this is just to prove your inability to think correctly even about things here on Earth and so your total incompetence for figuring out correctly anything bigger than this world.
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Lionheart
I don't ever remember lauding the praises of Donald Trump, but like all Presidents, he had his faults, but if I had to compare him to the idiot we have now as a President, he's way way way ahead.
The current President has difficulty reading from his teleprompter, written by......who knows? I notice he's not capable of even holding press conferences after his announcements. That's possibly because he's not capable. Name another President that didn't like confronting the press, unless he'd chosen those he would take questions from?
Biden has to be the most inept President this nation has ever had. If you can't see that, I question your intellect, but then again, I stopped questioning your intellect ages ago anyway, that's why my replies back to you are short, unlike yours, in the hope that you can grasp my replies....but obviously not.
Keep praying to your god, John, you need him 🤭
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John D. Partin
Nobody except a mentally defective person "thinks" that Trumpelstiltskin was a better "president" than Joe Biden is and that disproves all of your denials of your mental defectiveness. Only an Alzheimer's victim denies having lauded OranguTrump after we all read that you wrote that, which overrules your denials of your Alzheimer's.
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Lionheart
If anyone has Alzheimers its Biden. He's even forgotten his East from his West. He just made a comment about the possibility of West Oregon seceding to Idaho. What a joke of a President. He's made us the laughing stock of the world. My compatriots in the UK can't believe what an idiot he is. I hope he runs in the 2024 election 🤣
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John D. Partin
You can't tell the difference between idiotic and intelligent or someone's having Alzheimer's or not when you and all other Trumpophile hypnotized and brainwashed drones, slaves, and zombies "think" that Trumpelstiltskin was "smart" and "our greatest president and better than Biden".
That proves that you have a totally upside down, inverted, and backwards view of what is "idiotic" or "intelligent" and "Alzheimer's" or "isn't Alzheimer's" and makes your comment about Biden worthless.
All non-hypnotized and non-brainwashed people in the world know that OranguTrump was and is an IDIOT!! and the worst "president" in our history and only you hypnotized and brainwashed drones say that he was "our greatest president".
So, we will stick to what the SANE people are saying about him, and leave all of you to your brainwashing, fantasies, and propaganda.
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John D. Partin
Biden and all other Democrats hope that your guy will run in 2024, too (even if he has to get a furlough from prison and they let convicts run to do it), since that will guarantee Biden's victory and re-election as President, which your guy couldn't do!
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Lionheart
For once you’re right, John. You’re going to need Trump to run. It’s the only chance you have. If it’s anyone else you’re doomed. 🤭
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John D. Partin
Either you want Biden to run in 2024 because you want him to lose against Trumpelstiltskin or you want him to run because running against your guy is "the only way that he could win". Which is it? You are certainly very confused!
No other RepubliCONS have any chance of defeating Biden, either, because they are only warmed over versions of OranguTrump, as is De Santis, and if their leader and inspiration doesn't have any chance against Biden, even less do these Trump-wannabes and knock-offs have any chance!
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John D. Partin
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John D. Partin
Misstating that some counties in Western Oregon, instead of some counties in Eastern Oregon, want to secede to Idaho, quite obviously, isn't as bad or as big a deal as DELIBERATELY saying and promoting wrong things, as Trumpelstiltskin did when he told 30,000 lies during his term, and promoted the ingestion of bleach as a "cure" for COVID-19, and all the other wrong things that he said and did.
Everyone in here and in the world makes misstatements now and then, but many people here want to jump on President Biden over any misstatements that he makes. That isn't their doing unto him and others as they would have others do unto them or loving their neighbors as themselves, despite their constantly telling us that they don't need Jesus or Christianity to be moral, decent, and loving people, which this definitely doesn't show.
Biden isn't sitting in the Executive Mansion watching TV and playing with his Twitter account in the belief that that is his job as president or driving protesters out of a public park just so that he could have a photo op in front of a church whose pastor didn't want him there and hold a Bible upside down or doing the other irresponsible things that his predecessor did.
He is doing his job, despite many people who see something "wrong" in everything that he does, which is far more than Trumpelstiltskin was ever interested in doing. But the double standard and hypnosis and brainwashing that OranguTrump's drones have been subjected and are subjecting themselves to still make them say that he was "our greatest president", while calling Biden "incompetent", which honest and unbiased observation contradict.
Let him who is without sin among you cast the first stone and First remove the beam from your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
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Jennifer Sue Jackson
I don't know when "Christian" values became hateful and exclusionary, but it sure doesn't seem Christ-like to me. Its a shame that something that should comfort many, and is supposed to set an example for love and guidance, has become something teaching hate and encourages terrible behavior.
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Donna J Enneking
In a venue of supposed higher learning, such a decision is petty and ignorant. Every life is of equal value. Judge not
Christians really are a hate group.
Matthew, why do you and other people here and in the world judge all Christians by the worst among them, who aren't even following Christ's teachings of loving others as themselves and doing unto others as they would have others do unto them, and call all Christians "a hate group"? That is no different than racists' or religious bigots' calling all black people or white people or Jews or any other people "no good" because of some bad people among them. Why aren't you calling Satanists a hate group, since it is their religion or philosophy to hate some people with a whole heart, while any so-called "Christians" only hate other people when they are violating their religion's and Christ's teachings?! Isn't someone who hates deliberately more hateful than someone who does so inconsistently and unknowingly? The Nation of Islam is also a hate group, since they preach and practice hate and division between black and white people, and are a Satanic cult. Why aren't you condemning them, who are hateful by following their teachings, instead of condemning all Christians because of those who violate our teachings? If you are consistent with your belief that "all Christians are a hate group", then you have to condemn Catholic Charities and the Salvation Army and all other ministries that help people with their needs and never accept any help from them if you ever need help, and hurt yourself in that way and bite the hand that feeds you and other people.
John, ", why do you and other people here and in the world judge all Christians by the worst among them," , the answer is simple. Not enough of so called "good" Christians do enough to stop the hate and bigotry that comes from their own belief system. Failure to act is just the same as spreading the hate. Christianity was born out of a system that is used to control the way people think and act. The old time organized religious beliefs no longer work in today's society. If they want to separate themselves from society then they should stop using their hate to project themselves unto others. Peace ☮️
Brien, the few that find the road to life, even in the church, do as much as they can to get through to those who distort our belief system to "justify" their hate and bigotry, but can't get through to all or very many of them or stop them from doing their evil. Those few Christians aren't failing to act, as the few Christians did who spoke out against the Inquisitors and Crusaders and Conquistadors and holy wars, but couldn't get through to those who were swept away by the overwhelming flood and majority of evil in this world. That isn't the fault of those few, but of those many who wouldn't listen to them. The whole ungodly world is going along with that majority in the church in following after evil, and so why aren't you doing more to stop the evil going on among yourselves and speaking out against those evils, instead of only saying that a few good Christians should stop the evil in the church and speak out more against it? Except that you and the evil doers in the church are part of the problem, instead of part of the solution, and so aren't going to speak out against and stop the evils that you yourselves are doing! All condemnation of anything at all isn't bigotry, anyway, or nobody could condemn pedophilia or rape or incest without being a "bigot". Sins don't stop being sins because they are popular with people today because right and wrong and truth and lies aren't decided by popularity polls. So, still calling those sins sins isn't bigotry. All actual hatred and bigotry in the church needs to be repented of and to be asked forgiveness for, but not everything that is called "bigotry" in the church by people actually is bigotry, since it would require nothing to ever be called wrong in order for the church not to be called "bigoted". Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few. --- Matthew 7:13-14.
Sorry John, but just like 99 per cent of all Christians, you have eyes but refuse to see. As I said, non action is just the same as the hate and bigotry that comes from the organized "faith". The faith that you have spoken for does not need the narrow hate filled rules to help others yet it CHOOSES to hold that hate to the highest standard, even openly spouting this hate EVERYWHERE. Fortunately, not all of us are that easy to brainwash. ☮️
You are easy to brainwash because you have, in fact, been brainwashed by the world into going along with their acceptance and approval of immorality and saying that "something stops being immoral if you just say that it isn't" and it only takes the fear of not being accepted by those people to make you go along with all of that!! The real nonconformists suffered tortures and martyrdom, rather than go along with the ungodly world, but all that it takes to make you go along with it is the fear of being unpopular and thought "strange, weird, or different"!! That should cause you and all other people like you the greatest shame at your cowardice!! As Jesus said: "If you are ashamed of me before men, I will be ashamed of you before my Father in Heaven". Then, you merely transfer onto me and other people what is actually going on with yourself and accuse us of "being blind and going along with evil", but I will take God's word over yours and all other compromises and rejecters of the truth of God as to who is actually blind and going along with the world!! Again, calling anything evil can't possibly be "bigotry and hatred" or else nothing could ever be called evil, and the word of God expressly says that some things in this world are evil! Telling people who are sinning the truth that they are sinning isn't hating them or being bigoted against them, but loving them and wanting them to avoid the end result of their sinning. It is hating them to tell them that sinning isn't sinning, since that makes it impossible for them to repent of that sinning and seek forgiveness. Those people that have been lied to that they "aren't sinning" won't be thanking those who lied to them about that, but will be cursing them throughout eternity, as they are suffering for their unrepented sins!! That isn't brainwashing in Christianity, but opening our hearts and minds to the truth of God!! Be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. --- Romans 12:2.
And it also says Matthew 7:: NIV. "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged; with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. But christians ignore this and judge gays anyway. Why are christians so focused on gays and gay sex? What are their straight friends doing in bed? Maybe they are doing it wrong or sinfully. I'm a recovering catholic because of all the hate, abuse, and judgments cast by members. None of the members who wish to cherry-pick what to believe and what not to believe live biblically. Want to live biblically? Join the Amish. Until you join with the Amish you are not living as the bible says literally. (Leviticus 19:19 and Deuteronomy 22:11) prohibit wearing wool and linen fabrics in one garment, the blending of different species of animals, and the planting together of different kinds of seeds (collectively known as kilayim). The Bible tells us a lot about lust and sexual immorality, and that we are to flee from sexual immorality and lustful desires. If kissing before marriage stimulates lust or leads to sexual immorality, it is a sin and should be avoided between couples that are not married. A lot of christians talk the talk but don't walk the walk. The Bible can be one billion pages long but at the end and the fine print is Jesus. You do not go to god without going through Jesus and these christians today are nothing like their Christ. Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.”. John 14:6
John-
There are so many things that I would debate with you, but it is not worth our time to open ones eyes to the "other" side.
In the last 20 years or more Christians have become a hate group because that is what is predominately seen by the general public.If the good Christians, there are plenty of them, would stand up and make noise so that all could see there is another side than that would help, they don't. It is the same with Muslims and other religious groups.
Yes, hate is the same no matter whether someone knows they are hating or does not. It is hate and does not belong in civilized society. If there is hate then people should help that person to stop hating others. Perhaps disliking them for something they do, not following your religions teaching as an example.
The crux of your problem becomes evident with you writing, "...only hate other people when they are violating their religion's and Christ's teachings?" They are wrong because they don't believe what you do. Now we are back to the beginning, my way or the highway. It was a Christian college, an institution of higher learning, that was shutting down a group because they had someone in their group who did not meet the qualifications of a good person according to them. That is hate. Again, that is hate.
By the way, the Salvation Army is not the great humanitarian group you profess them to be. Think and analyze yourself and your religion before condemning others.
There are very many people who are benefitted by the Salvation Army who will disagree with you that "the Salvation Army isn't a great humanitarian group". Not everything that is called "hate" or "bigotry" in this society actually is hate or bigotry or nothing could ever be called wrong or immoral at all, in order for those saying that those things are wrong and immoral not to be called "bigoted and hateful". Sins don't stop being sins because they are accepted and approved of now by society because right and wrong and truth and lies aren't decided by popularity polls. The world is saying "My way or the highway and accept and approve of all of these things that we accept and approve of or else be called 'hateful and bigoted'", and then turns right around and accuses the church of doing that same thing to them!! Good and evil aren't just a matter of personal interpretation or decided by human standards and opinions, but are decided by God. Be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. --- Romans 12:2.
You are what you consume.