An Ohio 8-year-old’s choice of apparel is causing a major stir in the East Knox community outside of Columbus.
The unnamed boy found a dress at Walmart that he liked, and wore it to school last fall. No one thought anything of it at the time, and other children at school reportedly thought the dress – a gray short sleeve dress with black cats on it – was cool.
Here's what the dress looked like:
He reportedly wore it two more times that fall.
The boy’s parents didn’t hear a peep from school administrator’s or the boy’s teachers about his clothing choice. Little did the family know, things were about to get interesting.
God Objects?
Fast forward a couple months, and the parents were rather shocked to recently learn that their boy and his dress were the subject of a December school board meeting.
At the meeting, school board member Matt Schwartz (who is also a local pastor) was recorded calling the boy’s choice in clothing an “abomination to the Lord” and warned that he’ll have to be judged before God.
“I have said last week that I have them on Proverbs, or last month, the Proverbs, I train the child the way he should go, and then I also talked about men wearing women’s apparel, it’s an abomination to the Lord," Schwartz said.
"I remind us all we’re going to be judged by the word of God, not by popular opinion, not by the government. We’re going to all stand before God,” he continued.
Local news stations soon picked up the story.
The parents have asked to remain anonymous, but insist that their son has done nothing wrong, his dress was within the school’s dress code, and that the adults are overly concerned with how they’re raising their child.
A Clothes-Minded Community
“Horrified” is how the boy’s stepmother described finding out that her stepson’s dress was discussed at a school board meeting without their knowledge or consent.
At the meeting, members of the public and the school board supposedly weighed in, many signaling disapproval.
According to reports, some community members brought their Bibles to the lectern and stated that the school should be governed by God’s law.
One local parent described the dress as “demonic”.
The school district’s superintendent is pushing back on that report, arguing that he saw no religious overtones to the meeting and describing it as “esoteric and bland." However, recordings of the meeting reportedly include repeated mentions of Christianity.
The boy’s parents have contacted the Freedom From Religion Foundation, who sent a strongly worded letter to the district, instructing school board members like Matt Schwartz to stop bringing up religion and praying during public school board meetings – unless they’d like to see legal action taken.
"He Wants to be Left Alone"
The parents say that the community simply need to butt out of how they’re raising their son.
“You can disagree or agree with us on how we choose to raise our child,” the boy’s stepmother explained.
“Frankly, we don't really care. We’re pretty confident about our parenting choices. But it can be your child, you know what I’m saying, any parenting decision that these groups disagree with could be subject to this kind of protest or this kind of backlash that you get against your family.”
The parents say the meetings have only led to harassment for them and their son, and they just want their son to be happy and to be left alone.
“He has no confusion,” says the boy’s father. “He is not trying to use other bathrooms. He doesn’t want this. He wants to be left alone.”
The father continued: "All we want him to be is a healthy child, and you know, he’s a young, rambunctious boy who likes to run around and scrape his knees and get in trouble. He just happens to wear a dress every so often when he’s doing it."
What is your reaction?
146 comments
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Marcella M Russell
Greets to all. On the topic of the little boys wearing dress. Yes I believe according to the Bible it's an abomination to the Lord. I pray that he will see and experience God light very soon.
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Johnnie Roberte Lambert
So What? He knows who he is. Men have worn dresses since the world began. You can call them "robes" "cassocks" "kilts" whatever, but a dress is a dress. He wears what he wants and i applaud his parents for allowing him to do so. There's nothing "abhorrent" unless he is flashing people. Who knows, he might change fashion some day.
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Marcella M Russell
The dress that men wear was alot different from now. If the child is just wearing the dress because he thinks he's a female or because he love wearing dress. And he is trying to look beautiful that's an abomination. He is a boy and there are cloths that were made for boy and men VS girl and women. If I decide to start wearing man clothing these shirt, pants, necktie, man shoes. Then it means I would be comfortable wearing the underwear as well that is sick and twisted. If I have no shame, guilt or conviction of wearing what could be seen I won't have no problem wearing what cannot be seen. All of these things leads into other things that is against human nature. I don't see that as descrimation. We have to stand for something or we will fall for any and everything.
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Matthew L. Feinberg
The school should not encourage abhorrent behavior and should have a dress code. Part of the schools mission is the teach children how to behave in the "adult world". I can assure you any man that wears a dress to my business will NEVER get hired and if the come out after hiring I will find legal grounds to terminate their employment. If they are unable to craft a reasonable and enforceable dress code they should go the uniforms.
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Tom
So it sounds like you would discriminate against someone for coming out as LGBTQ+ which, need I remind you, is illegal.
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Pamela Kay Waters
I don't think they need to make a big deal about it if they are. Just go about life normal as they are.
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Valerie Sapienza
Well...apparently I must have hit a nerve with someone because my comment was removed.
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Dorraine Fulmer Lester
I see this as harmless behavior by a child. I also see adults using the child’s choices as an opportunity to push their agenda. I think outsiders should butt out of how parents chose to rear their children. Religious and spiritual beliefs are personal; so keep them out of the classroom, unless the school is a religious school. Then certainly the parent’s choices will align with the religious doctrine. So in this case my opinion to the school board….zip it.
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Scott Richard Garrett
The gender specificity of apparel is dictated by societal bias and has nothing to do with religion or the scriptures. Schwartz should maybe reconsider his vocation. He is spreading propaganda about one god while serving another. Shame on them all for their false judgements and intrusive will to harm an innocent child.
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Terry Marcel Minear
People who follow what the OT says are not trying to apply OT standards and ordinances for the wrong time period. But they do NOT RIGHTLY divide the Word. Very Very unfortaunate which is causing so much division in our country!!
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Paul James Lewandowski
I'm interested. What do you mean that the do not rightly divide the word? Can you expand upon what you mean?
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Pamela Kay Waters
You people say the pope and clergymen wear dresses. Did any of you ever heard the word ROBES.
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Johnnie Roberte Lambert
You seem to be really hung up on semantics. A robe is a fancy dress.
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Pamela Kay Waters
A robe GOES over their clothing.
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Pamela Kay Waters
While wearing clothes underneath?
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Joe Stutler
Making excuses for leaders of an international pedophilia conglomerate as they wear dresses isn't a good look. 😏
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Merlin
Who decided God has a gender?
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Rev. MichaelRS
Some of y'all are kind of silly in your justification of this.
No, Papal robes or clerical cossacks are not dresses (the latter us actually classified as a coat) nor is a kilt a skirt. Nor did men mand women back in the time of Jesus, in particular Jesus himself, wear the same clothing.
They are all clothing, be it ceremonial or traditional, that is MADE FOR men.
And yes, today Women wear pants. But I'm willing to bet 99% of them bought their pants in the women's section of the store as products that were MADE FOR (cut & sized) women.
And if they are wearing men's pants, that they purposely bought in the men's section, it's probably because they could not find the practical garment they needed in the women's section where they first looked, but not as their 1st choice.
It's a small, Is fraction of a percentage of people (although vocal activists would have us believe it is large) who really WANT to wear the other's clothing.
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Joe Stutler
Priests wearing dresses are still priests wearing dresses, regardless of how you try to spin it. It doesn't matter that it might help you more quickly alter boys, calling them robes or cassocks doesn't change the fact that clothing is simply clothing. Try harder to not be a bigot, maybe find a better imaginary magical friend.
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Rev. MichaelRS
That sounds so childish and ignorant. How can one be wearing a dress if the garment item is not a dress? I suppose next you'll be saying ancient Roman soldiers wore mini-skirts rather than shorter tunics.
And it has nothing to do with being bigoted. The whole premise of the article is based on Christian theology.
If you reject Christian theology or, given your "imaginary magical friend" comment, all theology which has a divinity or divinities at its core, then that pretty much ends the discussion because there will never be common ground found to resolve the issue.
Now frankly, I think as a member of a school board running a secular school system the pastor's comments were a little too strident. However, they were said and now that is the issue at hand.
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Pamela Kay Waters
They wear robes. Not dresses. Do you people know the difference?
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Joe Stutler
Po-tay-to, po-tay-to. Worry about your own wardrobe.
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Paul Edward Nunis
Time was (and not that long ago) that they could have been saying that about a female wearing trousers to school...
'Progress!!'
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Robert Harold Douglas
I went to school in Scotland and wore a kilt most days. Even the most fundamental Protestant churches in Scotland have no problem with that. As someone said in their comment, there are more important things in this world to worry about than a boy wearing a dress!
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Brien
Seems to me catholic clergy wear dresses, nobody complains about that.
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Pamela Kay Waters
ROBES!
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Pamela Kay Waters
ROBES. He wears a ROBE.
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Pamela Kay Waters
Are you really sure what you just said? Last I knew there is a difference between a ROBE and a DRESS .
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Joe Stutler
Your bigotry doesn't change men wearing dresses into something else. It doesn't matter if they're priests or wizards or some other purveyors of silly magic.
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Pamela Kay Waters
What do you mean bigotry? That word is if you have a problem with a race of people. Not about the opinion of dumb parents that are setting their kids up for bullying or attention they want. Or to make a statement. There is enough hate in the world today, why make it worse.
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Tom
big·ot·ry /ˈbiɡətrē/ noun noun: bigotry; plural noun: bigotries
obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
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Pamela Kay Waters
I don't have a problem with gay people. Just people who let their kids go to school like this when they know their kid will be bullied. There is way too many kid suicides in this country from things like this. Did any of you think of these repercussions.
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Marion Wolfe
Why are you even pretending to care about gay people; are you benefiting somehow from this lie?
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Michael Hunt
Their kid wasn't bullied! Read the article again; their classmates though the dress was cool. The only people bullying this child are the adults who can't handle a new generation who follow different social norms than them.
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Daniel Todd Kamm
Many many years ago, a friend of mine and a professor of Geography at the University of Cincinnati, Bob McNee by name, may his memory be a blessing and a wide- jaw -opening to those of smaller minds and bigger mouths... who was raised in the backs of Minnesota, among the cows and the woods, and sporting, as long as I knew him a down -to-earth cowboy look complete with jeans, flannel shirt, a corded blazer, and a cowboy hat... not to mention the handle bar moustache... an affectionate yet gritty old fellow, he always kissed everyone he liked on the lips regardless of the crumbs in his 'stache."
Way back in the 80's, he piloted a class, that became very popular to the chagrin of the academics of the time, and which he presented for years until he retired, entitled "Sexual Subcultures."
If he's been old enough, Florida's Ron DeSantis would have stroked out and died... but that would have been okay.
Bob always opened that particular class by putting on a horrible pink frock he'd found at a local thrift store over his usual cowboy attire. Then, donning his cowboy hat, he would begin to lecture.
One of my favorites had to do with why "Christianity" and in particular the Roman Church, is really nothing more than the "Roman Empire in drag."
And it is "drag" I submit to both the broad and narrow minded for discussion. To the reader I suggest that "the clothes do not make the man," or the woman, or any one else , inside, outside, or in between.
These dreadful people, small in number, big of mouth, and large of wallet who cry out against elitism but want to be the real "elites" are persecuting a child and family over a piece of clothing. It's a piece of cloth! How horrible they are!
I give thanks that the child has clothes to wear and the ability to choose what to wear.
I challenge the narrow minded people who persecute and demonize : because they will never grasp the greatness and beauty of life, or that which, whatever it is, that we don't name, and has given life beyond what any of us can comprehend.
Which is why they reduce it to petty politics, "religion, " and worse, "religion" which is nothing more than petty politics.
I find it filthy and inhumane and exactly what I would expect from "those people."
My old friend and professor called it what it was then, and if he were with us today would say the same, but he would also be more generous in acknowledging evil's humanity: because without humanity there is no such thing as good or evil.
To wit:
Perhaps if they found a frilly frock... and went skipping through the woods... wearing something "Pretty in Pink," maybe?
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Cyril R. VanKeirsbelk
Technically a dress is a garment worn by a woman, so the boy is wearing a tunic, not a dress.
Point of order, Catholics dress their boys in a gown, for their christening. So Christians have no standing complaining about boys in "dresses".
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Pamela Kay Waters
Again. Don't they wear their clothes under these ROBES?
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Pamela Kay Waters
Gowns. Big difference. Then wearing a dress to school. This is a religious ceremony
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Susan Christine Giganti
About baby gowns : In the present day , most families baptizing an Infant will wait until a child is few months old. This started so the Mom is healed and can enjoy the event. By then, babies weigh about 12-15 pounds and do not fit in family heirloom gowns meant for small newborns of 6-8 pounds. I haven’t seen a male infant in a baptismal gown since 1973. (In a Catholic Church) And no other clothing was worn under the gown, except a diaper. In past decades it was urgent to have a newborn baptized, less than a month after birth, but younger churchgoers have changed that. My Mom said the young mothers her age could barely stand up in Church and were expected to host a party.
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Pamela Kay Waters
Same difference. A tunic is a womens top.
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Donald G Magel
So the pope and his priest and many ministers wear robes, ie dresses. Some are indeed an abomination. This minister and school board member is the leader of the abominators.
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Pamela Kay Waters
There is a HUGE difference between a robe and a dress.
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Rev Ned
Please explain the difference.
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Pamela Kay Waters
A robe is a ceremonial piece that is worn over clothing.
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Dorraine Fulmer Lester
And men in Scotland wear kilts. The purpose of outer garments is to cover nakedness, the dress fits the brief.
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Rev Ned
Comment removed by user.
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Rev Ned
Again, what is the “HUGE difference”? I wanna know. Please enlighten me.
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Pamela Kay Waters
A robe GOES over your clothing like for ceremonies. A dress is a WOMAN'S garment wore by WOMEN.I really can't believe that some of you are so naive that you don't know this.
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Rev Ned
Shakespeare wrote a play about this, “Much Ado About Nothing”.
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Christopher R Sherer
Deutoronomy is full of rules that are specifically for those who just crossed the River Jordan and settled near Gilgal. Deut. 11:31-32 makes that quite clear. So, if you don't live there they don't apply. However, if you insist on others following these rules, Remember you are to follow them yourself. They include: Deut. 16:1 Passover. You must celebrate Passover. Deut. 12:12 Slavery. It's ok to have slaves from your own people as long as you set them free in 7 years. That makes good sense! Deut. 17:5 If someone is an evil doer in the eyes of the Lord your God and there are witnesses to this evil doing, then the witnesses throw first followed by EVERYONE else. Stone that person...it is commanded by God. If you don't stone the evildoer you would become an evildoer yourself. Deut. 14:3 NO BACON! Also, cows did not make the list. You can have chicken as long as it didn't die by natural causes or suicide. Thank God for Jesus coming along and saying the old path is replaced by the new path!
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
If your religion teaches you to hate - you need a new religion.
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Cyril R. VanKeirsbelk
If your religion teaches you hate, you're doing it wrong.
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Wellness Counselor
What someone wears has nothing to do with what is in one’s heart. The content of one’s character is not determined by the color of your skin or the threads on your back.
How is this young mans attire different form a Scottish kilt? If you are truly following God, you know that Jesus didn’t slow down to point and comment. Didn’t your mother ever tell you that if you have nothing nice to say, you should say nothing.
Live your best life!
“if you are led by the spirit, you are not under the law.” (Gal. 5:18)
Don’t break commandments worrying about your perception of law.
“…Why is my liberty judged by another mans conscience?” (I Corinthians 10:29)
“All things are lawful, but not all things are helpful. All things are lawful, but not all things build up.” (I Corinthians 10:23)
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Pamela Kay Waters
He's 8 years old. Is he and his parents ready for the outcome? Sounds like they are trying to bring bullying upon their kid. Never did it say why the kid wanted to wear this thing . How was this put in his mind. One day he just woke up and said Today I'm going to wear a dress. Sounds more like this decision was more than his.
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Michael Hunt
"The unnamed boy found a dress at Walmart that he liked, and wore it to school last fall. No one thought anything of it at the time, and other children at school reportedly thought the dress – a gray short sleeve dress with black cats on it – was cool."
He wasn't being bullied, he chose to wear it because he liked it, and the (so called) adults are the ones bullying a child. Just because you feel that it's abnormal for a boy to wear a dress, it doesn't make it so.
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Rev. Jim Sutton
But it's okay for clergy to wear "cassocks"? They look like single-color muumuus or house dresses. And the diff being ? ? ?
Thank goodness the boy wasn't celebrating Scottish history. The school probably would've gone cuckoo over the kilt.
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Susan Christine Giganti
The problem here is a pastor on a public school board using his religion for swaying the other board members. I would object if the Board Member were a Rabbi or Imam as well. The kids don’t have a problem with this boy, so the adults should butt out of it. Jesus said his new commandment was “love one another” .
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Nicole Wojtyska
I don't see a problem here. If the child feels like he wants to wear a dress let him wear a dress. This isn't the 30's anymore. Children should be able (people) as well to express themselves. Why do we continue to address these non issues. People just stay in your lane and keep your comments to yourself.
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Nicole Wojtyska
I don't see a problem here. If the child feels like he wants to wear a dress let him wear a dress. This isn't the 30's anymore. Children should be able (people) as well to express themselves. Why do we continue to address these non issues. People just stay in your lane and keep your comments to yourself.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
ANY adult who calls a child an abomination is vile & cruel. As such, they should be fired from any state, federal or religious job. Then they should be shunned. Christians are the biggest hate group in history.
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Ahmed Abduljabar Al-Hujazi
My question, if God is the one who will judge this boy, is: Does God need your help to do so? I believe that you'll find the answer is: No. Leave the boy to God and look after your own judgement.
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Sherri M Martel-Hernandez
oh for the love of pete. seriously? please quit fussing over clothes and worry more about kids smoking or trying out drugs... clothes dont kill you...drugs do. good grief!!!!
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Kaleb Hoover
““A woman shall not wear a man’s garment, nor shall a man put on a woman’s cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.” Deuteronomy 22:5 ESV
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Lionheart
“It does not do well to dwell on dreams and forget to live.”
Dumbledore (Harry Potter)
🦁♥️
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Pink Clover
Funny how so many like to pick and chose what rules you adhere to. Go crazy over a little boy wearing a long shirt (otherwise known as a dress), but don't make a fuss about all the lying, grifting, grooming, pedophelia, theft, treason, insurrection, sedition, etc. going on.
I'm thinking we have so many more important things to work on. Sooooo many.
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Kaleb Hoover
““A woman shall not wear a man’s garment, nor shall a man put on a woman’s cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.” Deuteronomy 22:5 ESV
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Wellness Counselor
“You shall not wear a garment of different sorts, such as wool and linen mixed together.” (Deuteronomy 22:11)
I knew wearing polyester had to be a crime!
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Larry Gates
No matter what happens, people will continue to defy the word of God, we do know that the Devil is always busy, trying to undermine the word, through friendship or politics we continue to drop our guards for the children. To look beyond what was given to us, through his sacrifice, so with all the earth Quakes, fires, pestilence, disease and disasters we face daily people still won’t take hold to his word. I continue to look up for his return, for we don’t know what day or time, but to always be ready
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Marion Wolfe
If that's your god that's been causing all these disasters, bring him unto me and I will deliver a swift kick to his holy nuts because someone has to teach this dweeb a lesson.
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Pamela Kay Waters
It all starts at the home. The parent now days don't know how to teach respect and right from wrong. And the kids these days will cry child abuse if the parents try anything.
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Mary Defibaugh
Your right Mr. Schwartz we will all be judged one day and that includes you and all those hypocrites that believe themselves to be Christian. You judge and preach the Bible. What do you know about the Bible you hypocritical blow fish? Leave the boy alone. Every individual has a right to express themselves and find themselves and be themselves without being judged. Who are you to judge?
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Pamela Kay Waters
Sure the kid has a right to express himself that there is the cop out. He's just setting himself up for ridicule and bullying. I hope the parents can deal with that and the school as well.
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Pamela Kay Waters
Well if the kid wants to bring bullying upon himself then he and his family better have the guts to put up or shut up.
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Anita Rogers
Best answer of the day!
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Alma C Olsen
Here we go again. Adults creating a problem and teaching kids HOW TO bully others. This is my problem with this "Harper Valley PTA." This child has worn this dress to school the other kids didn't make such a fuss. I find that part interesting. Back in my youth they would have. We've gone to great lengths to teach kids not to bully others. We punish them for that type of behavior. And here we have an example of those same adults who'd have to punish those kids doing exactly what they'd punish the kids for. I'm more worried about the entire school districts attendees sorting out this example with their young minds. Then some boy wearing a dress. Their example of mob culture is another issue. All this whip up a crowed at a meeting of adults to target an 8 yr old boy. Seriously? Have you nothing more constructive to do at your board meetings? I'm sure there is a school in need of something like repairs or a better lunch program. Is you district #1 in your State scholastic wise? Do you have programs in place to help kids with special needs? So many more things you could focus on rather than getting your panties in a twist over an 8yr old in a dress.
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phwly
Depending on the particular dress, it could be a lot more comfortable than pants. Certainly cooler in the summertime. Could be quite practical.
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Kevin Miles
Growing up in my days as a child I was always taught that dresses were only for girls and not for boys. But a girl was allowed to wear pants and suite jackets.
While I personally don’t have a problem or concern that a man or boy wants to wear a dress. I have to be honest when I do see it it seems strange to me. Maybe my upbringing but still, It has nothing to do with me.
If the child wants to wear a dress so be it. I’m sure from time to time he will be harassed. But that harassment is based on ignorance, fear and trying to control someone.
People need to get a grip, how does someone’s actions and decisions about themselves affect you? back in the day they wore robes, cloaks, in the 14th and 15th centuries men wore make up, tights, cod pieces, and other clothing that today we think of them as skirts.
A child is taught to dress the way their parents and family or society approves of. He’s not walking around with his privates exposed be grateful he’s wearing clothes and STFU.
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Rev Ned
I’m so old that I remember when girls were not allowed to wear pants or shorts to high school. Unless they were in the marching band, of course.
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Theresa Gull
For crying out loud…the boy is wearing something HE likes. I applaud the parents for allowing the child to live his most authentic life.
My problem with religion is people hide behind it when something makes them uncomfortable.
Not your kid, not you fight - buzz off!!!
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Vicki Lynn Mallory
A boy wearing a dress shouldn't be the issue. The fact that a BOY is seeking attention by wearing a DRESS is the issue. Its a cry for HELP. Is he being abused by his mother and forced to wear a dress? Is he being sexually abused and hates who he is? SOMETHING IS WRONG, yet all anyone is looking at is a DRESS, not the child underneath.
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Paul James Lewandowski
You are presuming that an 8-year-old is sophisticated enough to be making this choice as a cry for help. Given the age, it is much more likely that the by just saw a thing he liked.
However likely either interpretation might be, the article we are commenting on certainly does not give enough information for us to know. Let's not assume that we know the boy is troubled in this case.
As to bullying, I have said it elsewhere - avoiding any behavior that might draw a bully's response is no better than accepting the bullying behavior when it happens. Ad according to the article, the boy was not bullied by his peers. He was bullied by intolerant hate filled adults who seem to have been seeking attention in a much more harmful manner than the boy wearing a dress.
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Mike
I do not think we can jump to any conclusions over the fact that this boy wore a dress to school. We can't assume he's being abused or hates who he is. Maybe there is more going on, but regardless there can be consequences such as bullying, ridicule, or worse for a boy who wears dresses that go beyond anything that this child realizes. Look at some of these comments. To claim this is no different from a woman putting on pants is not correct either. Whether it's fair or not, the boy is drawing attention to himself and getting it from a wide spectrum of people whose goals range from sincere help to ostracizing him. I hope his parents seek guidance from people who understand what is best and that they do what's best. I wouldn't know what to do.
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Pamela Kay Waters
EVERYTHING begins at home. Let's let the kids do what they want because they don't want to upset them.
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Pamela Kay Waters
Exactly. If he had parents that had any brains they would stop him. He's just setting himself up for bullying and criticism. WHY?
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Rev Ned
More “blame the victim”????
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Jemma Kimberly Whyatt
That pastor is the sort of man that would have wanted to put women on the pyre for wearing trousers and riding bicycles.
What a massive bellend.
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Paul James Lewandowski
"What a massive bellend."
I laughed so hard at this...
GREAT turn of phrase!
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Rev. MichaelRS
1st off, talking about what Jesus wore or what people generally wore way back in the day...there were certain articles of clothing that were GENERALLY common to both men and women.
However the fact that the prohibition exist in Deuteronomy 22:5 There's enough to tell us that there were differences of some sort in that clothing.
Many times such differences involve length but they could also involve other aspects of styling and acoutrements.
So it's ridiculous and ignorant to say that people in ancient times went around in unisex garments when they clearly did not.
And stop using the kilt as an example. When the kilt came into popularity in Scotland, just a few 100 years ago, it was a MAN's garment. And was in no way thought of as a dress or skirt, except as a pejorative used by the Sassenach.
Women of that time were not wearing knee length anything when it came to skirts or dresses.
So yes, there was clothing made for men and women thousands of years ago and that's what the prohibition in Det. 22:5 is about.
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Paul James Lewandowski
I think the thing to remember about the kilt is not the actual gendered nature of who wears them, but that from outside that culture, the kilt is functionally equivalent to a skirt, and to the non-Scot, the uninformed, or unobservant, it could be seen as a skirt. While a Scotsman knows what a kilt is, and whom it is for, outside that culture, even some who know that it is a man's garment still have difficulty seeing it as such, when filtered through their own cultural lens.
Regardless of that, the example here is that there is no such thing as a universal male- or female-worn garment. It changes throughout history and culture. It is that very change that the laws in Deuteronomy are intended to curtail.
Anthropologically speaking, these ancient laws served to ensure the health and security of the people. They served to codify behavior in a society in a time when survival itself was a tenuous thing, a simple cut, poorly prepared food, or an allergic reaction could kill, without any chance of viable medical intervention.
They made sense in their times and places, but we are rational thinking beings. Just as we place our interpretations on the words in other parts of our holy books, so must we interpret these old laws for our modern times. It's not as if we only stop to help someone on the road if their donkey has fallen over, as opposed to a mule, or a horse, or a car...the cultural change will happen whether we oppose it or not. Isn't it best to ensure that the heart and soul of our faiths, beliefs, and morals remain true than to cling unthinkingly to the letter of the law while we cast the spirit away?
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
I'm fairly conservative. BUT, if a little boy wants to play dress up, why not?
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Jemma Kimberly Whyatt
He’s not playing dress up he’s just wearing clothes. Do you think women are playing dress up when they wear trousers.
This is no different.
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Pamela Kay Waters
DRESSUP. That's exactly what this is. And to start UP the bullying and harassment. Maybe at home they can play DRESSUP.
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Rev Ned
Yup. Blame the victim.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
the talibangilists are at it again
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Rev Ned
Shakespeare wrote a play about something like this titled “Much Ado About Nothing”.
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Daniel Gray
Its not demonic. But the fact remains that the school board did not have to speak to the parents UNLESS they specifically mentioned him by name. And since they didnt then the parents have nothing to complain about.
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Theresa Gull
If someone is talking about MY child - regardless of whether he was named - it’s MY business.
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Rod Gesner
And the Greedy Railroad Robber Barrons have unleashed atrainwreck of a Dirty Bomb that the Governor set on Fire.. But The "good xstains of Ohio Only wanna pick on kids clothing choices. We Need to Stand up to the defilers of our enviournment.
And leave parenting to the PARENTS OF THIER OWN CHILDREN. UNLESS LIKE THE XSTAINS THEY ARE ABUSING THEIR KIDS IN THE NAME OF THEIR SICK TWISTED VINDICTIVE IDEA OF a god.
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Pastor Jody S.
Every time I see someone misinterpret the Holy Bible the way "Americas Taliban" does, I just shake my head. They don't even know it well! And certainly not enough to try to rebuke other people.
They are talking about Deuteronomy 22:5 "A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's clothing". So I'm in trouble, since I'm a woman wearing pants while I type this. They always conveniently forget that women get bashed first!
In the same chapter, we are told every home must have a parapet, that different seeds may not be sown in the same field, every coat must have tassels in all four corners, and if two people are found in bed together and not married to each other then they "both shall die".
We don't enforce any of the other things - why pick on men about wearing women's clothing?
And hey, I like these comfy cotton pants I'm wearing!
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Rev. MichaelRS
The difference is if one Is wearing pants made FOR a man or made FOR a woman.
In your case did you buy your pants in the men's section of the store or the women's?
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Although it makes me wonder how an 8-year old boy came to the decision to wear a dress, wearing pants is just as much a socially conditioned act. It will, at the very leadt, expose him to the freedom of telling others to f**k off.
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Pamela Kay Waters
No it just stirs more bullying. 8 years old. REALLY? There is enough of that already. And it gets so bad that kids commit suicide. Is that what we want? From most of you I guess you really don't care except free to do as you want. Am I right?
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Paul James Lewandowski
Except that according to the article, it did not stir any bullying toward the boy (though I acknowledge the risk was real).
Bullying cannot be removed from our society by avoiding doing, saying, or being things or people that bullies would strike out against. Preemptively letting the bullies win will lead to as intolerant and controlling a society as allowing the bullying actively.
We need to be ourselves, harm no one*, and tolerate no intolerance. Bullies must be confronted and stopped, and we must teach those around us that it is unacceptable, and why it is unacceptable. I'm not saying it will be easy, and I am not saying that we need to throw our 8-year-olds into the fray for the cause, but neither should we be teaching them to bow to the malice and hate of anyone.
*I am not a pacifist, and I personally acknowledge situations where one must defend oneself or others, but I do not advocate violence to anyone. Nor do I insist upon complete non-violence. I just want to clarify that I do believe that no one should harm anyone when it is a matter of choice, and not a matter of existential crisis.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
As another member pointed out, check out the article. The other kids seemed to be dealing with it.
But bullying exists everywhere. Even here in Japan where almost all schools require uniforms, hair styles, make up, etc and controlled to the point that everybody looks the same, bullying exists.
Sweetie, it ain’t the dress.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
The Pope wears dresses, all the time — has anyone ever seen him wearing pants?
And ghosts (in this case, the Holy Ghost) always wears a white dress, especially when he courts anyone akin to the Virgin Mary (who was 11, or 12, when she was impregnated by the Holy Ghost).
And, do any of my fellow ULCM bishops, happen to know why Scotsman wear kilts (dresses)?
The answer— because sheep can hear a zipper going down, from miles away.
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Pamela Kay Waters
ROBES. He wears ROBES.
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Rev Ned
Looks like dresses to me.
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Pink Clover
😄
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Mike
What worries me is the fact that he is a boy. By that I mean he's a child who may not understand the consequences of what wearing a dress to school might bring him. I know first hand because sixty years ago when I was eight I was forced to play a girl's part in a little show. I wore a dress, a wig, and lipstick. I didn't want to play a girl, but I wasn't allowed to make that decision.
Before the show I thought I'd just feel embarrassed. What I didn't expect was that my acquaintances from school would mercilessly tease me. I began to lie and claimed they were mistaken about me having played a girl in the show. That didn't help either and gave me a girl's name that stuck for several months.
I'm not against drag queens. If that little boy wants to be a girl for Halloween, it's fine with me. However, if my son wanted to wear a dress to school I'd explain that whether it's right or wrong there could be blowback.
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Paul James Lewandowski
This is realistic, and I very much agree that it is a worthy teaching moment for a child. I find myself trying to counterbalance this point of view against a desire to let a child be as carefree and innocent as possible for as long as is reasonable.
As a society, we need to push back on these artificial restrictions, and the boundaries that used by those in power to keep others in line. I would acknowledge, though, that an 8-year-old does not necessarily need to be the standard bearer. It is perhaps better to leave these sorts of potentially fraught situations until later in the child's life when, fully mature or not, they can make these decisions with more understanding of potential consequences.
Either way, I charge you that if your faith demands that you pass judgement and take action (and no religion that I know of truly demands this) speaking to the parents and seeking to understand the ideas and decisions in play here are the more appropriate path. Storming up to a pulpit and shouting your bigotry in the name of your own religion seem more like attention seeking behavior than the supposed attention seeking of the boy in the dress in the first place.
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Rev Ned
Mike, that sounds like more “blame the victim” bunk to me.
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David Arthur Lewis
Who Would Jesus Hate?
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Lionheart
Oh! Was he real then? I bet you read that somewhere....right, or is it something your parents told you?
🦁♥️
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David Arthur Lewis
You are so incredibly immature. You really should move out of mummy's basement and get a life.
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Lionheart
You doin't have an answer then as to how you know he was real?
🦁♥️
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Nicholas J Page
So what is wrong with that? What about drag queens and those who dress in similar attire.Are you going to suggest about the Scots dressing in kilts.I have Scottish ancestory in my blood does that make me a weirdo.And I have seen my brother who is an American citizen wear one your point is
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Rev. MichaelRS
Because the kilt is a MANly garment. Women at the time the kilt became popular in Scotland we're not wearing knee length...anything.
And you need to turn in your Scottish card for insinuating that the kilt has any relationship to a skirt or dress. So no, because it does not you would not be considered a weirdo, as a man, for wearing one.
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Pamela Kay Waters
These are PERFORMERS that do this on stage or for a performance. Not everyday.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Pamela Kay Waters Sounds like you are narrow minded and never been to Scotland. Try seeing how others live before commenting.
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Wilberta M. Berry
Ño where in the Bible did Christ wear pants. The biblical men style of dress looked like maxi dresses on them and no one cared. The Scottish men wear kilts and no one cares. America is one of the most screwed up judgmental societies on the planet. Priest wear outer garments that resembles long dresses. I think that Ohio school district is making much ado out of nothing.
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Rev Ned
It’s because our country was founded by religious fanatics.
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JaZe
'abomination' and 'demonic'? ooooh big words ! can understand some puzzlement about the boy's choice but that does not make him a&d, he is too young to realize why it would be an issue.
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Theresa Gull
Love this!!😁
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Fr. Tony
Dress code?
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Colleen McAllister
From what I can see the dress is not a "girly" piece of clothing nor is it demonic in any way. Men wore tunics and dresses long ago. Jesus himself wore clothes that were not gender specific. Leave the boy alone. And realize that the school should not be run by "God's Rules" unless it is a private parochial school. Oh, and where does the Bible forbid men to wear dresses?
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Douglas Robert Spindler
The Bible forbids men to wear dresses when you don't read the Bible and make stuff up.
Christians have perfected that skill.-
Theresa Gull
Amen!!!😁
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Gary Leu
...and what would it matter if it was "girly"?
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Gary Leu I'm sure some would like it even more if it was.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Every Christian clergyman walks around in a dress.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Every Christian clergyman walks around in a dress... And it doesn't mater if they are straight, gay, drag or queer.
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Pamela Kay Waters
ROBES
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Pamela Kay Waters
Robes
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Pamela Kay Waters
A dress is a dress no matter what kind it is. And boys don't wear them out in public unless they can handle the circumstances . Parents should know what will happen if their boy wears a dress. Kids are getting messed up with all the f@?#Ed up stuff.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
Pamela, could you kindly cite some scientific, peer reviewed research that supports your opinion?
What is really screwing our children up is closed-minded christian nationalists who can’t understand that which is beyond their narrow thinking.
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Joe Stutler
Something happens to my kid for their clothing choices, it's gonna be a very bad day for whomever did the happening. FAFO.
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Rev. MichaelRS
You have to nip this kind of thing in the bud. Otherwise, next thing you know, he'll be stealing high end women's luggage from the airport.
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Lionheart
That is sooo funny! Abraham Lincoln would turn in his grave if he knew how far the US had fallen from when he was in office.
🦁♥️
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Rev Ned
…said Barney Fife.
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Katelynne Shouse
Thank the gods for wonderful parents such as these......the Christofascist running the school board should be thrown out on their proverbial ears and never be allowed to hold any office again!
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Fr. Tony
Comment removed by user.
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Fr. Tony
Lol Christofacists…. Im sure Muslim and for that matter the Jewish schools would say the same thing in relation to this issue. Agree or disagree but the bashing and hypocrisy needs to stop on this forum. The self righteousness needs to stop NEWS FLASH…. People have different opinions, views and values. Get over yourselves and live a positive productive life.
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Paul James Lewandowski
It's a public school, apparently, and a school board, not a religious institution.
It's in the United States, apparently, and protected by the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment which has been held up numerous times by the courts ruling that even though a school board is not directly part of the federal government, the Establishment Clause still applies.
It's not stated in the article what religion, if any, the child is being raised in. If you are a Roman Catholic who would not want to be held to the Laws of Islam, or a Muslim who would not want to be held to the tenets of Buddhism, or a Protestant who would not want to be forced to act against your own religion as an atheist, then by the simple Golden Rule that most religions boil down to, you have no right to impose your own religious beliefs or interpretations on anyone in the secular realm - school, government, business, etc.
I acknowledge your right to believe as you do, and while I may not agree with what you have to say, I will defend to my death your right to say it. Just remember that Freedom of Speech does not equal freedom from the repercussions of what you say. Personally, I think you should also consider just how righteous you really are if you are calling an 8-year-old child who is dressing in ways counter to your religion's rules "demonic" and "an abomination", regardless of what phrases the book itself uses in your native tongue.
You may quote Deuteronomy 22:5, but let me ask you - are you equally applying that law to yourself? Are you a woman who wears pants? At one time, they were the sole province of men, yet now they are accepted. Are you railing against Scotsmen who wear kilts? They are, essentially skirts to the untrained eye.
Do you also adhere to Deuteronomy 22:11 - 12? Do you wear garments of mixed sorts, such as wool and linen? Do all of your garments have tassels at the four corners?
Does your house have a parapet on the roof (Deut 22:8)? When someone (even just your brother, though I would tend to hold that 'brother' here means fellow humans) has car trouble (extrapolating from a donkey in ancient times) do you always stop to assist them (Deut 22:4)?
None of us obey all the rules all of the time. None of us are so perfect and righteous as to have the moral right to impose our own beliefs, rules, and interpretations of them upon others. We have religious laws that members of those religions should be following. We have secular laws that members of our society should be following. Where secular laws are broken, we have a defined system for dealing with law and rule breakers.
When religious laws are broken, at least where it pertains to Christianity in its many forms, we already, as a society, do not take it upon ourselves to mete out justice. When was the last time a youth was taken to the gates of the city and stoned to death for being rebellious to their parents (Deut 21 18-21)? Or a child who struck or cursed a parent was put to death (Exodus 21:15)? No- as a modern society, we accept that it is God's to judge.
My advice to you all is to tend to your own. If you don't believe a male should wear women's clothing, or vice versa, then don't do it. Teach your children the same and explain to them why so that they understand. If they see others doing something like that, teach them your belief and/or the law (of your faith AND of your land), and explain to them why it is so, as a teaching moment.
But if you are going to stand up in your self-righteousness and judge an 8-year-old for what they wear, you might want to rethink who is "demonic" and "an abomination" in that scenario. It might not be who you think.
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Raven Patricia Fabal
Right on! Thank you for posting such a well-researched and very well-written comment. I very much enjoyed reading your words. The world needs more clear-headed thinking like yours!
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Joe Stutler
The only ones upset by the clothing choice are obnoxiously hateful bigoted god-botherers. Surely there are starving lions they can be given to....😉
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Pamela Kay Waters
I'm not a bigot. And you can't even capitalize God? It's still not right. Too many bullies in schools these days why make it easier for them to bully.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
So the bullies are the victims? Your thinking is very backwards. Sounds like you need some Social Emotional Learning. You know, SEL, that the christian nationalists are trying to eliminate from public schools.
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Considering the tagline and image at the bottom of the page "We are all children of the same universe", perhaps keep in mind that not everyone here is beholden to the Christian Bible.
Personally, I joined this organization and community for its openness, tolerance, and inclusivity. Can we discuss the issue on its merits instead of judging people against the directive of the very religion these judgements and name calling this is all coming from, that being "Judge not, lest ye be judged"?
Lastly, I checked the box to get updates on this discussion, but we're becoming repetitive. How do I unfollow? :)