"In God We Trust" is a national motto found in many public places, including in our schools and on our currency. Should it be on police cars, too?

A Florida Sheriff's Department is facing backlash after proudly announcing it will be stamping the words "In God We Trust" on the back of all its police cars. Brevard County Sheriff Wayne Ivey says the move is part of an effort to make his police cruisers more patriotic (the new decals also include an American flag).

However, the initiative is not off to a great start. Ivey's announcement quickly caught the attention of the Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF), which promptly filed a complaint. The FFRF calls the decal "inappropriate and exclusionary" as it seems to imply that law enforcement is endorsing the Christian interpretation of God and perhaps even acting on His behalf.  

"Statements about a god have no place on government-owned cars," said FFRF co-president Annie Laurie Gaylor. "Further, in a time when citizens nationwide are increasingly distrustful of law enforcement officers' actions, it is frightening and politically dubious for the local police department to announce to citizens that officers rely on the judgment of a deity, rather than on the judgment of the law."

Guided by the Light

However, Sheriff Ivey insists the words are intended to be inspirational and are not meant as a religious statement. After all, he points out, "In God We Trust" is a national motto found in many public places, including in our schools and on our currency.

And so far, the local community is backing him. Plans to include a waving U.S. flag on the front doors seem to have won hearts and minds, particularly of veterans. Ivey says he has the law behind him as well, pointing to a past court ruling which determined the motto "is of a patriotic or ceremonial character, and bears no true resemblance to a governmental sponsorship of a religious exercise."

But Brevard County Commissioner John Tobia took that reasoning a step further, arguing that placing an "In God We Trust" decal on patrol cars "will measurably lower crime rates in Brevard County."

One Motto to Rule Them All

Although the Founding Fathers declared the first national motto to be 'E Pluribus Unum' (Out of many, One) in 1782, another version emerged during the following century. 'In God We Trust' was first minted on coins in 1864 as the Treasury Secretary's response to heightened religious sentiment during the Civil War. However, it wasn't adopted as an official national motto until 1956 under President Dwight Eisenhower. 

Despite numerous legal challenges on the grounds of respecting the separation of church and state, that national motto has continued to endure on the basis that "God" despite its singular nature and capitalization does not refer to any one specific god, nor endorse any one specific religion. 

Not Going Down Without a Fight

For officials in Brevard County, this is about more than just a motto, though it's about the very fabric of our nation.

"They have a better chance of me waking up thin tomorrow morning than they do of me taking that motto off our cars!" Sheriff Ivey, a heavy-set man, told Fox News. "I personally believe that our country is at a tipping point, and if we, as strong patriotic Americans, don't stand for the principals of our great nation, we are going to lose the America we all know and love!"

Since the sheriff is refusing to back down, this case could be destined for the courts. Where do you stand on the issue? Do religious messages even if they're baked in tradition belong on official government vehicles? Or would the citizens of Brevard County be better served by an entirely secular fleet of law enforcement cruisers?

141 comments

  1. Peggy's Avatar Peggy

    The title of this article made me laugh. Atheists don't believe in God, therefore, they do not believe in hell... and coming full circle, Atheists would seem to be raising nothing. They can raise a family, raise the roof, raise a pig, etc., but they can't raise hell. I'd also like to say that Christians, for the most part, seem to think they have the right to dictate what all people must abide by. They tend to think If you are not Christian, you are not allowed to have a voice. Truth is, freedom of speech does not begin and end with Christians.

    1. Rev Buzz's Avatar Rev Buzz

      Thank you Peggy. Despite what many might believe, our founding fathers went to great lengths to avoid any endorsement of god or any religion in the documents that established this nation. Unfortunately, our Supreme Court has been reluctant to adhere to that concept and has bowed to the idea, that because it has been such a long standing tradition, that in god we trust is embedded as a national custom. One nation under god wasn’t added to our pledge of allegiance until the 1950s. How long is it required for such customs to exist before they are considered to be deeply ingrained in our society? If I may make an analogy, Until shortly after WWII, the Department of Defense was known as The War Department. The name change did not change the mission of providing for the national defense. It was just considered to be less aggressive sounding. I wonder if AR15 style rifles would be considered less threatening if they were referred to by their normally intended purpose ; as defense rifles instead of assault rifles? Similarly, In God We Trust, has no purpose being on our currency. It does not (or should not) increase the faith that we have in those pieces of paper. Our trust in that paper is based on our nations ability to back it as acceptable legal tender, with no regard to any religious beliefs. Catholics are often criticized for worshipping idols/statues. What they actually worship is what those statues represent. That is no different than our pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth, which is a flag representing our nation. OK, I’m done for now.

      Bottom line - In God We Trust doesn’t belong on a police car any more than you would expect it to belong on a military vehicle. Think about it.

      1. Rev. Joseph's Avatar Rev. Joseph

        I feel you have said everything I wanted to say except one thing. The very act of stating, "God does not mean but one god or deity in that statement," is actually against the Christian doctrine. However, it is another example of how they use half-truths and partial lies to cover the fact that Political Leaders have been injecting The Christian Agenda into the laws of The United States of America since the 1950s.

      2. cbcuff's Avatar cbcuff

        The militarizing of America through police is enough to keep everybody awake at night. Having this type of statement on police vehicles (let alone military as you point out) is a scary scary thought...those so delusional, running around the country with guns on their hips, telling us it's to 'serve and protect'.... from who/what? Brevard Commissoner stating that " it will measurably lower crime rates"... not only a nonsensical thing to publicly state but also in an underhanded way infers crime is a result of those who do not believe in god. Talk about pimping ignorance!

    2. Jack Gerber's Avatar Jack Gerber

      That is very well stated.

    3. arawngraalrd's Avatar arawngraalrd

      "Hell," should be capitalized, as in "Life is Hell." The Secret of Reincarnation, btw, is that Life is Hell. We really just let souls gravitate where they're heaviest.

    4. guidvce4's Avatar guidvce4

      Sorry, I'm late to the party. Had other things to do or respond to involving possible future of our nation. The whole discussion of whether God exists or not, is ridiculous. None of us knows, for sure. Its a matter of preference of what helps anyone get through life relatively unscathed and happy. Keep in mind, all religions are based on 'fatih'. Are any based on actual beings which can be experienced by anyone at any time they want? Eh, no. I prefer to believe in a God, a great creator, etc. That is my choice. I don't try to convince anyone of anything in that regard. Wanna believe in unicorns and fairies and leprechauns? Go for it. Also, I am not the least bit offended by the phrase "In God We Trust" on anything at all. If the majority of folks living in any area, including the USA, wanna put that phrase on whatever, I don't object nor complain. It might just keep the "true" believers in line and from doing harm to others. Thats a good thing. Just sayin'.

    5. exusafsp's Avatar exusafsp

      I agree. Christians are pushy.

  1. Dr. Tinsley Keefe's Avatar Dr. Tinsley Keefe

    Religious messages don’t belong on any public buildings or cars or money...Separation of Church and State...there is a reason for that....one day most people won’t believe in god or goddess anymore....science and love ...that’s what we need more of ...

    1. Tilly Bowyer's Avatar Tilly Bowyer

      Exactly!!!

    2. ronald wolfe's Avatar ronald wolfe

      wow ! really who appointed you the GOD of what will happen one day? people have been worshiping a God for as long as humanity existed. Now you have determined it will cease one day. You must think your a prohet.

  1. Lea Weisenbach's Avatar Lea Weisenbach

    We are a secular country and it should be removed....I tend to not trust anyone that wears a cross..

    1. Val jester's Avatar Val jester

      Have you ever cracked a history book? Have you read ANY of the founding fathers writings on the inclusion of religion and faith in the formation of our country?

      1. Don's Avatar Don

        Funny how your history books missed these:

        “The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.” 1797 Treaty of Tripoli

        Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.” James Madison — Letter to Wm. Bradford, April 1, 1774

        “In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty." Thomas Jefferson — in a letter to Horatio Spofford, 1814

        “It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet the one is not three, and the three are not one." Jefferson’s Letter to John Adams, August 22, 1813

        “The legislature of the United States shall pass no law on the subject of religion.” Charles Pinckney, Constitutional Convention, 1787

        “No religious doctrine shall be established by law.” Elbridge Gerry, Annals of Congress 1:729-731

        “And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.” Thomas Jefferson to John Adams

        1. exusafsp's Avatar exusafsp

          I knew Jefferson was completely against basing a government on religious principles. Jefferson wrote his own bible, so he was decidedly religious.

          1. Don's Avatar Don

            The Jefferson Bible was simply a re-write of Scripture with all of the silly supernatural mumbo-jumbo taken out. Jefferson was decidedly NOT religious. Try actually reading some of what he wrote.

      2. Don's Avatar Don

        Here are a few more your history books missed:

        “The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries.” James Madison — 1803

        “I have generally been denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious I am no Christian, except mere infant baptism makes me one; and as to being a Deist, I know not strictly speaking, whether I am one or not.” Ethan Allen, Revolutionary War Hero

        “Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst.” Thomas Paine

        “What is it the New Testament teaches us? To believe that the Almighty committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married; and the belief of this debauchery is called faith.” Thomas Paine

        “Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear.” Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

        “Lighthouses are more helpful than churches.” Benjamin Franklin

        1. ronald wolfe's Avatar ronald wolfe

          yes and anyone can state quites from hunderads of other famous people saying exactly the opposite. Form your own opinion and live your life by it dont rely on quotes of famous people as many have contradicted themselves many times over with other quotes. All im saying is each person can make up their own minds what they believe just because they posot in God we trust on coins or a police car does not influence me at all. i Make my own mind up i dont care where In God we Trust is shown. No need to impose your views on others if they want to put in flowers we trust on the cars go for it.

      3. Anna Brown's Avatar Anna Brown

        I would recommend reading Andrew Seidel's new book, "The Founding Myth"

    2. arawngraalrd's Avatar arawngraalrd

      We are no more Secular than Christian; A+SJWs are Agents of Tyranny.

      1. Dr. Tinsley Keefe's Avatar Dr. Tinsley Keefe

        We are a secular country, and god isn’t real....and that’s ok.

        1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

          Correct! And until anyone can prove ANY god is real we are in fact a secular world!

          The car sticker could just as well read "In Zeus We Trust", or "In Fairies We Trust". All being just as meaningless as that which is currently on the cars. If I had a choice I'd go with the "In Fairies We Trust" because that would please many children until they grow out of it and see reality, which sadly, many adults don't do with "In God We Trust".

          ?♥️

        2. arawngraalrd's Avatar arawngraalrd

          Have you found proof, that God isn't real? It's mostly our Press, Democrats, and other agents of Tyranny, that deny God.

          1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

            I believe in many gods and goddesses, and then there's the ultimate unknowable diety (in Wicca and Paganism); The All, in Hermetic philosophy. And Satan might even be a god-like diety, to Satanists. And all of the Satanists I've known have seemed like better people than most of the Christians I've known.

          2. Dr. Tinsley Keefe's Avatar Dr. Tinsley Keefe

            Do u have actual proof that she does exist? Not just, “I saw “goddess” or “god” in a dream or think I heard his/her/their voice, but actual proof? Has anyone ever had that kind of proof? It’s like your employer telling you to keep working and that they’ll pay you a huge sum of money after you die....u really gonna go for that?

          3. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

            “Have you found proof that god isn’t real?”

            I’ll use whatever method you used to determine fairies, and all the gods of other religions aren’t real.

            Please let me know what that method was so that I can use it to show to the world your god is real. I could do with my name on the Nobel prize.

            ?❤️

          4. Stoodie Baker's Avatar Stoodie Baker

            "Have you found proof, that God isn’t real?" That's not how it works. You don't get to make a claim and then challenge me to prove it false. If you make a claim, the burden of proof is on you. I could make any fantastical claim and challenge you to prove it false, but it's impossible to prove ridiculous claims as false, just as it's impossible to prove ridiculous claims ans true. For example: I was alone in the woods one day and I met a friendly green dragon who told me that God was bunk and the true supreme power was Tiamat, the mother of dragons. Prove me wrong.

          5. exusafsp's Avatar exusafsp

            God can be neither proven nor disprove. It is impossible to verify an idea.

          6. Donald W Schmidt's Avatar Donald W Schmidt

            Your automatic response to politicize this discussion and demonize the press and Democrats as "agents of tyranny" says a lot about your motivation to join the discussion and even more about your desire to adhere to "God's" Word.

            By the way, it's a ridiculous premise that Democrats deny God.

    3. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      I don't mind crosses as long as they don't hàve figurines of Jesus on them. That turns them into crucifixes. Plain crosses were known and used as powerful symbols long before the birth of Christ.

      1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

        I'm just glad I know that God and Goddess are real, and dont care what anyone else thinks about it. I minister to all, without preaching, or trying to convince anyone of my beliefs. Whatever's right for you is fine with me, as long as it isn't being forced on anyone, like too many fools try to do.

        1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

          I’m just very curious Carl as to what knowledge you have, which presumably is demonstrable, that has caused you to know that a god and goddess is real?

          Just asking!

          ?❤️

          1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

            I've had many magickal experiences in my life I'm happy to tell you, my friend, none of which I can prove to you, nor would I ever care to try. I'm just selfish in that way, and glad of it. My time and breath are too valuable to me to waste on nay sayers. I'm content with your disbelief and lack of religious experiences, and hope you always remain the same. You seem most contented that way.

          2. Dr. Tinsley Keefe's Avatar Dr. Tinsley Keefe

            Carl, what are your experiences? I’d like know ?

          3. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

            Thank you Carl. I’ve had some wonderful experiences in my life, some would say they were magical, but in reality they were just wonderful experiences. I never attributed them to a god or goddess, or fairy, though it would have been very easy to say that, but being a realist I just couldn’t.

            I’ve been to magic shows, like David Copperfield’s in Vegas, and I had no idea how he did it, but my head tells me they were somehow tricks and not from any god. Amazing experiences though!

            Good to hear from you my friend.

            ?❤️

      2. arawngraalrd's Avatar arawngraalrd

        Garuda was really quite bright, when born among the Devas, after the Ocean of Milk War.

        1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

          The magick we speak of in Wicca is not the same thing as magic tricks performed by magicians. We're talking about both personal power, and divine magick of our dieties, which is the same thing as what Christians call miracles. However, in Wicca we believe us Wiccans can have more of a direct influence on such things than Christians do. We also believe that everything about the life of a Wiccan is magickal, but not only in what others call supernatural, but in the things that others take for granted, such as the air we breath, which is truly a magickal experience. Then again, we of Wicca view much in different ways than others. We don't even believe in such a thing as the supernatural, for all is contained within nature. That concludes today's lesson in Wicca 0301. Blessed be !

          1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

            We are doomed Carl, but the good thing is, we get to spend our time in Hell with some amazing people who have frequented our time space.

            I’m just hoping Joel Osteen, Benny Hin, et al don’t follow us. I’ll raise my athame to the 4 quarters to make sure that doesn’t happen. ?

            Blessed be!

            Archbishop Lionheart ?

            ?❤️

    4. Rev. Brien's Avatar Rev. Brien

      I am proud to NOT be trusted by you. Now before you get heated up let me explain... I wear what I chose to wear. I do not ask permission nor do I care what someone thinks about it. I believe what I chose, and I believe how I chose. My faith is not part of some old work of fiction. Nobody represents my faith but me, it is my faith not yours. I also do not care how you keep your faith. Words do not offend me, actions do. I do not give a damn if a cop shows up dressed as a circus clown, as long as he or she does the job. For that matter, I do not care what the car looks like either. I do not care what definitions or labels you use to define you or someone else. I do not believe in labels, they are just wasted words. I do not hate because someone told me to. I make my own choices based on the faith I keep in MY HEART. Your choices are your own. If people put the same energy they use to argue over stupid crap into something positive, the world would be better for it. Lastly, for the record, the cross I wear has a deep personal meaning to ME. I did not ask for, nor do I care about your opinion. Be a good human, and I will try to do the same. PEACE

      1. ronald wolfe's Avatar ronald wolfe

        Thank you Rev. Brien. I totally agree with you. Everyone should decide for themselves what they beleive or dont beleive. If they want to put slogans or mottos on coins, cars buildings thats fine each person can decide if they want to follow or believe it. It sure doesnt influence my faith at all, not why people need to get so upset about such things.

  1. James Slack's Avatar James Slack

    I believe the sheriff has the right to put In God We Trust in his squad cars. The non religious believers have to get over it and suck it up. It’s time we put God first, instead of satan. The time has come to stand for religion and down with non believers and bring them to our thinking. So let’s make God Great Again

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      In god we do not all trust. It’s time for religionists to suck it up and realize that not everyone has the same archaic beliefs, so let’s make logic, common sense, and reason make America great again without its mythical gods.

      ?❤️

      1. Dr. Tinsley Keefe's Avatar Dr. Tinsley Keefe

        I agree. Amen ??

      2. Val jester's Avatar Val jester

        This is a church blog. Why are you here?

        1. Don's Avatar Don

          This is a ULC blog. Why are YOU here?

        2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

          ULC is not a Christian sect, Val.

        3. Lori's Avatar Lori

          Wow Val.... Did you think this was a blog about YOUR perception of church? It's about Universal Life! Each person has the right to view and share their experience of who God is or isn't.

        4. Nathaniel Robert Hunt's Avatar Nathaniel Robert Hunt

          The ULC is a church that welcomes all religion (ALL RELIGIONS) as well as no religion. And has historically committed on conversational things, Kirby J. Hensley himself preformed a same sex wedding (not legal at the time) at the Modesto Church years back.

      3. Jack Gerber's Avatar Jack Gerber

        Very well stated, Lionheart

      4. Lea Weisenbach's Avatar Lea Weisenbach

        Lionheart you took the words right out of my mouth. Spot on

    2. Lea Weisenbach's Avatar Lea Weisenbach

      James Slack...You need to look at religion....It has s trail of blood behind it...It uses the word god to do Satan's work..Actions speak louder than words.

    3. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      Unless you're trying to sound like a functioning illiterate James Slack, Satan is a proper noun, and should always be capitalized. Thank God (figuratively speaking) there's no o such thing as Christian English !!!

      1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

        I didn't put that o between no and such in my above comment. It was the Android poltergeist !

    4. Dr. Tinsley Keefe's Avatar Dr. Tinsley Keefe

      Both “god” and “satan” are fake hun

      1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

        That's one man's opinion.

        1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

          No, not just one man, it's mine as well, ? until someone can demonstrably prove to me that they exist, they remain fake, just like fairies.

          ?♥️

          1. arawngraalrd's Avatar arawngraalrd

            Then you choose to believe Truth is Falsehood, because Fairies are real too. Is George Washington a fiction, since we know he didn't really cut down his father's cherry tree?

          2. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

            Oh goodie. I’m glad fairies are real. My daughter is going to be soooo pleased to know that. I know she’ll ask me how I know they are real, and I’ll just tell her that you said they were. I do get a very sneaking suspicion she won’t believe me without proof but I’ll try my best to indoctrinate her to believe you.

            Thank you for your confirmation. Have you told anyone else yet, or am I the first one to know. Just asking!

            ?❤️

        2. Don's Avatar Don

          Facts and evidence do not care about your feelings nor opinions.

    5. The Doctor's Avatar The Doctor

      Sheriff is an elected position, he is a servant to all in his county. His will is not what matters but the will of the people. Unless he ofcourse like so many corrupt badge wearers and politicians think he is some supreme authority.

      And stand for which religion? If you mean christianity, then which version?

      Your idea of a god is not everyones, nor should it be. Think as you like but keep it to yourself because pushing such ideas on others is the root of tyranny that was torn out by better men then you centuries ago when they founded the U.S. of America.

      1. Rev. Joseph's Avatar Rev. Joseph

        Good point to be made in this comment.

        elected officials and anyone that works for the people should not be touting anything that does not belong to ALL of the people they serve. They would never put the Wiccan Motto, "Harm None, Do What Ye Will," on their cars. So, why this term that can only serve to alienate a good portion of the community. It seems as if they are asking for their to be an issue just to get attention and/or have a reason to start a fight. Wait... that is it... they ARE trying to do that... taking attention away from something else.

        QUICK... look for what else is happening right now that is not being paid any attention.

    6. Donald W Schmidt's Avatar Donald W Schmidt

      Your statement, last sentence, sums up exactly why religious wars are fought and people die in terrorists attacks in the name of religion.

  1. Dr. Tinsley Keefe's Avatar Dr. Tinsley Keefe

    Sweetie “god” isn’t real...just a childlike view of the afterlife and stuff.....pls turn to science and love

    1. ronald wolfe's Avatar ronald wolfe

      and that is your opinion dont force it on others let them determine for themselves what they belive or dont belive your no different then the car with in God we trust on it only your not government just someone who thinks everyone should believe or not believe how you do.

    2. ronald wolfe's Avatar ronald wolfe

      and that is your opinion dont force it on others let them determine for themselves what they belive or dont belive your no different then the car with in God we trust on it only your not government just someone who thinks everyone should believe or not believe how you do.

  1. Gene Evans's Avatar Gene Evans

    This is people with a lack of religion trying to force their ideas on people who believe in religion.

    1. Don's Avatar Don

      Wow, really? So asking people like you to not shove your god in our face is forcing ideas on you? Have you always been this obtuse?

    2. Lea Weisenbach's Avatar Lea Weisenbach

      Gene..that's wait the opposite..It religion again trying to enslave our minds.

    3. Dr. Tinsley Keefe's Avatar Dr. Tinsley Keefe

      No, Gene....this would be true if atheists had a campaign to put, “god is fake” on the backs of violence cars....yes, that would be forcing our beliefs upon everyone....but we are not doing that, are we? Instead, it’s the Christians that are doing what you accuse us of doing....by placing “In god we trust” on the backs of the cop cars....that, sir, is forcing your religion upon us...you all started this mess, not we.

      1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

        Christians would complain, and rightly so, if police cars had signs saying “In Santa Clause We Trust”. They would say that’s totally ludicrous, but in reality, it’s no more ludicrous than “In God We Trust” as both are fallacious statements.

        ?❤️

        1. arawngraalrd's Avatar arawngraalrd

          Unless you mean my cat Sandy; people talk about how Sandy claws and he slay; that cat is a total fiction. Saint Nicolas, otoh, is an actual historic person, thought to be an avatar of Odin/Poseidin, last rumored to be residing in Florida. God, also an actual person, serves Coffee farther north. The Easter Bunny, The Leprachaun and Doctor Kildare are all real people.
          Enough about my peer group, it seems to me, the Sheriff is simply making a patriotic show, based on a pre-existing violation of the First Amendment. Now, I hope it's not illegal for me to write Trump across the White House, on the backs of my U$20s.

          1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

            You can even write Trump sucks across the White House, and tell them I told you to, if you can get past the Secret Service.

          2. The Doctor's Avatar The Doctor

            actually it is technically a crime to deface, damage, or alter any valid currency in the U.S. Sure plenty smash pennies and make notes on cash but it is not legal to do so just, not really ever enforced except when it comes to counterfeiting.

  1. arawngraalrd's Avatar arawngraalrd

    "In God We Trust," could be Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or Theist, Buddhists should trust Anyone, and Scientology would still demand Cash, but seems improper for Congress to adopt. Once adopted by Congress, it seems patriotic for the Sheriff to display on his vehicles, and Atheists can pound on Florida's copious Sand. This could go before the SCotUS, as a challenge to the rights of Congress. If you really want to disenfranchise the Atheist+Social Justice Warrior, which is not a bad idea, have Electors vote their Marksmanship.

    1. Don's Avatar Don

      Atheists aren't SJWs - SJWs tend to not take responsibility for their own actions...just like fundamentalist Christians. Both of those groups need to learn to take responsibility for their actions.

  1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

    And what about the Goddess? The Goddess gave birth to the God. Why isn't she included?

    1. arawngraalrd's Avatar arawngraalrd

      I hardly think that Congress would be aware of Her current Avatar.

  1. Archbishop Yanel Jay Laroche Jr.'s Avatar Archbishop Yanel Jay Laroche Jr.

    In God We Trust is a holy statement. If you can find that holy statement written on dollars and pennies,than you should obey the Holy Bible which speaks of Jesus Christ that is the first born of the dead according to Revelation 1:5. Because we are living in the U.S.A.,we are really living in a Christian like country called U.S..Tobacco is satanic.Marijuana and illegal drugs are also against the Holy Bible oh all Christians in the U.S.A..(Galatians 5:19-21)(2 Timothy 3:1-5)

  1. minister james's Avatar minister james

    aw, just follow it with "...all others pay cash...". and, may we all find that better day...

  1. Lea Weisenbach's Avatar Lea Weisenbach

    The problem is with this is that religion keeps trying to take over..Freedom of religion us also freedom from religion. I'm a Survivor from Christianity and I don't want this type of influence at all. The thing us..if everyone just lived their religion instead of wearing their label the world would be a better place.

    God is different for everyone..I beleive its Goid Orderly Direction and nothing to do with the invisible man.

    I my self made a choice not to wear a label just because of people judgments and just plain ignorance...It gets sickening that I get dissected by Christians and I can't question them.

    Freewill..freedom if thought...and understanding our pure nature is spiritual...Till this world starts respecting others for their choice..And not being selfish and billing others in pushing their religion..We will never have peace in this world...God has no religion..

    1. Lea Weisenbach's Avatar Lea Weisenbach

      The word is bullying ..not billing.

  1. Rev Buzz's Avatar Rev Buzz

    I sent a post on November 8th in response to Peggy’s initial post. If the administrators of this site are going to arbitrarily refuse a posting, they have an obligation to inform the person who submitted the post the reason for it being refused. I used no profanity, nor made any ugly or rebellious remarks. Please acknowledge.

    1. Don's Avatar Don

      Good luck with that. None of my four comments (clear, concise, free of profanity) were posted for this article. Yet the religious bigots continue to post with impunity. This one will likely get squashed as well. It's getting to the point of pathetic. Oh well.

  1. Maia next santo santos's Avatar Maia next santo santos

    A respondent wrote earlier this is a church, why are you here, what kind of audacious arrogance gives this person the right to ask such a question, all the years I’ve been here I’ve never seen the monastery infer I must believe in a god, (I don’t) and I don’t believe with our rights that people can’t say, write and do what they feel, as long as it follows legal guidelines. Why am I here? To listen and read others opinions and thoughts, why the fuck are you here with a brain dead thought process.

  1. Alicia's Avatar Alicia

    Atheists don't want to be told what to believe or what not to believe. So why are they bitching about a decal? Have the people take a vote. If a majority wants the decals to stay, they stay. What does it matter anyway?

    Since you don't think this phrase should be on police cars, what do you think about it being on money? Do you refuse to buy things because "In God We Trust" is written on money?

    People...pick and choose your battles well. This is a stupid argument. Let it go.

    1. The Doctor's Avatar The Doctor

      I just dont use cash at all myself. luckily my debit card doesnt say a thing about any mythical being on it. Though maybe if I ever decide to splurge on a custom debit card Ill get Zeus shoving a lightning bolt of the so called Christ's arse.

    2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      We've got to talk about something, and ULC doesn't give us a choice. We can't only pick and choose old articles all the time. We must move on to the new.

    3. Rev. Joseph's Avatar Rev. Joseph

      In regards to using money. I don't. I use debit cards and direct deposit of funds. I never have cash of any kind on my person. The few times someone gives me cash money, I immediately put into the bank to be digitized into funds in my account. Therefore, I am not spreading the doctrine of Christianity, subverted or otherwise, by using the cash money that it is printed on.

  1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

    Of course atheists don’t want to be told what to believe, and neither should children.

    Personally, I would prefer a sticker that says “In Logic And Reason We Trust”, but I’m just guessing that might upset some deists using their tax dollars to pay for it to be added to vehicles.

    ?❤️

    1. arawngraalrd's Avatar arawngraalrd

      Logic is feminine: I don't trust it, but appreciate its beauty. "in Gold we Trust; God willing."

    2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      What about a sticker on police cars that states "We will we will rock you !"

      1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

        Yesssssss!! I’m all for that.

        ?❤️

  1. Archbishop Yanel Jay Laroche Jr.'s Avatar Archbishop Yanel Jay Laroche Jr.

    In God We Trust is a holy statement. If you can find that holy statement written on dollars and U.S. currency,than you should obey the Holy Bible which speaks of Jesus Christ that is the first born of the dead according to Revelation 1:5. Because we are living in the U.S.A.,we are really living in a Christian like country called U.S..Tobacco is satanic.Marijuana is satanic  and an illegal drug that is also against the Holy Bible oh all Christians in the U.S.A..(Galatians 5:19-21)(2 Timothy 3:1-5)

    We are Archbishop Yanel Jay Laroche Jr. that are still married spiritually. Read Genesis 1:27 and Genesis 5:1,2

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      Don't agree with you Jay. I would never trust your mythical God. Quotes from your old book of tales and myth mean nothing. You’ll be saying you believe in Adam and Eve, and talking snakes next.

      ?❤️

  1. Archbishop Yanel Jay Laroche Jr.'s Avatar Archbishop Yanel Jay Laroche Jr.

    In God We Trust on U.S. currency really. According to the Holy Bible, what does it say about God?

    Jude 7 New King James Version

    7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

    Revelation 22:15 New King James Version

    15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

    Revelation 21:8 New King James Version

    8 But the cowardly,unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

    1 Timothy 1:8-15 New King James Version

    8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.

    12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

    1. Don's Avatar Don

      You forgot Ezekiel 23:20 Please stop quoting that book, it doesn't impress anyone here.

  1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

    There might not have been a problem with Sodom and Gamorrah if they would have worn Trojans, and saved their seeds to be used in artificial Insemination.

    1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      Am I mocking your religion, Laroche ? I saw a really cool t-shirt on my Amazon app which states I'm going to Hell in every religion. This month I got a t-shirt from Amazon which states Satan is happy with my progress. Lighten up, and no more years, for it's just a hand in the bush, in the bush, in the bush...

  1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

    Laroche, have you been hanging out with a man named Flugo ?

  1. CJ Gresham's Avatar CJ Gresham

    I'm a little confused Atheist do not believe in God, so why is this a problem for them?? Or is it just a different tactic on fight God an his word! But they spend currency that states "In God We Trust"! So why keep spending money that has this entitled on it....

    1. Don's Avatar Don

      Remedial English class. THEN come back and try to "school" us - but not before. That way you won't appear to be a dyslexic 5 year old.

  1. Tom Phillips's Avatar Tom Phillips

    If the comments I have read in this discussion regarding the Florida police vehicles having a decal saying 'In God We Trust" is a reflection of how Americans view their Creator God I am very saddened. I do not live in the USA but always considered the country to be a God-fearing nation. To those who try to prove the existence of God by quoting scriptures can I suggest you do not waste good things on people who will not appreciate them.

    The principle is this: The Bible and the Gospel is holy and good, but we can expect to encounter some people who will not see the value of it. In fact, they will ridicule it and despise you for presenting it to them. The recommendation is to not provoke such people to mock God's Word.

    In practical terms, it means that when it comes to sharing the Word of God with others, Christians should know when to stop. If you get the sense that the person you are speaking with doesn’t want to hear it, and in fact is treating it with ridicule, then respect their wishes and leave them alone. Otherwise, all you are doing is giving them an opportunity to mock the gospel. So don’t do that.

    If our insensitive persistence provokes people to hatred, it’s more the Christian’s fault for unwisely provoking them. It is foolish to push that which is clearly unappreciated and unwanted.

    The things that you hold close to your heart, your treasures, are valuable to you. Others may have no appreciation for them and treat them with contempt like swine trampling your fine jewels into the mud.

    Perhaps granting forgiveness to someone who shows no sense of remorse is a preferred christian example.

  1. Keith Allver's Avatar Keith Allver

    The Freedom from Religion Foundation is composed of nothing more than militant whiny politically correct Atheists that want to suppress any belief or ideas that they find offensive which is one more step down the slippery slope to fascism. Thankfully they don't represent all Atheists because I know some that care if it says in God we trust on a car our money or if the Ten Commandments are displayed on public ground, Etc.

  1. Cindy Murten's Avatar Cindy Murten

    Give me a break. Why is it one group as the right to stop this statement being put on police cars. There are a lot of people out that are for it. So I am all for it.

  1. Dr. Tinsley Keefe's Avatar Dr. Tinsley Keefe

    Great! Well then let’s put up a slogan that says, “God is fake” on the side of police cars...lots of people would also like that as well ?

  1. Rev Ned's Avatar Rev Ned

    As a member of the US Army Security Agency, our motto was “In God we trust, all others, we monitor.”

  1. Gary Bearman's Avatar Gary Bearman

    I have a lot to say on this matter... But I yield my time to the late Roger Ebert (Yes, THAT Roger Ebert):

    Public Prayer Fanatics Borrow Page from Enemy's Script March 5, 2003 BY ROGER EBERT

    The Bush administration has been dealt a setback in its campaign to allow prayer in our public schools. The full 9th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals has voted 15-9 to back the 2-1 vote by its earlier panel finding the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional because of the words ''under God.''

    The pledge, written in 1892, had those words added to it in 1954, during the Eisenhower administration, and I remember a nun in our Catholic school telling us we had to say it because it was the law--but it was wrong, because it violated the principle of separating church and state.

    We started every day with classroom prayer at St. Mary's School, of course, but Sister Rosanne said there was a difference between voluntary prayer in a private religious school and prayer in a school paid for by every taxpayer--a distinction so obvious that Bush and Attorney General John Ashcroft are forced to willfully ignore it.

    Ashcroft said after the ruling that his Justice Department will ''spare no effort to preserve the rights of all our citizens to pledge allegiance to the American flag''--a misrepresentation so blatant that it functions as a lie. The pledge remains intact and unchallenged. The court said nothing about pledging allegiance to the flag. It spoke only of the words ''under God''--which amounted, the court said, to an endorsement of religion.

    This is really an argument between two kinds of prayer--vertical and horizontal. I don't have the slightest problem with vertical prayer. It is horizontal prayer that frightens me. Vertical prayer is private, directed upward toward heaven. It need not be spoken aloud, because God is a spirit and has no ears. Horizontal prayer must always be audible, because its purpose is not to be heard by God, but to be heard by fellow men standing within earshot.

    To choose an example from football, when my team needs a field goal to win and I think, ''Please, dear God, let them make it!''--that is vertical prayer. When, before the game, a group of fans joins hands and ''voluntarily'' recites the Lord's Prayer--that is horizontal prayer. It serves one of two purposes: to encourage me to join them, or to make me feel excluded.

    Although some of the horizontal devout are sincere, others use this prayer as a device of recruitment or intimidation. If you are conspicuous in your refusal to go along, they may even turn and pray while holding you directly in their sights.

    This simple insight about two kinds of prayer, which is beyond theological question, should bring a dead halt to the obsession with prayer in public places. It doesn't, because the purpose of its supporters is political, not spiritual. Their faith is like Dial soap: Now that they use it, they wish everyone would. I grew up in an America where people of good breeding did not impose their religious convictions upon those they did not know very well. Now those manners have been discarded.

    Our attorney general, John Ashcroft, is theoretically responsible for enforcing the separation of church and state. He violates his oath of office daily by getting down on his knees in his government office every morning and welcoming federal employees to join him in ''voluntary'' prayer on carpets paid for by the taxpayers.

    His brand of religion is specifically fundamentalist evangelical. As his eyes lift from beneath lowered lids to take informal attendance, would he be gladdened to see a Muslim, a Catholic, a Jew, a Hindu, a Buddhist, a Baha'i, a Unitarian, a Scientologist, all accompanied by the chants of Hare Krishnas?

    Under Bush we have had a great deal of horizontal prayer, in which we evoke the deity at political events to send the sideways message that our enemies had better look out, because God is on our side. This week's Newsweek cover story reports that the Bush presidency ''is the most resolutely 'faith-based' in modern times.''

    Because our enemies are for the most part more enthusiastic about horizontal prayer than we are, and see absolutely no difference between church and state--indeed, want to make them the same--it is alarming to reflect that they may be having more success bringing us around to their point of view than we are at sticking to our own traditional American beliefs about freedom of religion. When Ashcroft and his enemies both begin their days with displays of their godliness, do we feel safer after they rise from their devotions?

    Copyright © Chicago Sun-Times Inc.

  1. CRAIG's Avatar CRAIG

    The United States, founded upon religious freedom, still came from an era where there were different Christian beliefs, but no global understanding of religion. It would have been beyond their ability to think in other terms and as such, the concept of complete religious freedom and tolerance is one of those ideas that is going to take a long time to shift to.

    For those entrenched in the idea of there being a "God" it's hard to imagine there not being such an entity, thereby making it extremely difficult to be tolerant of Atheists. Or pagans, wiccans and others, for that matter.

    Religion talks about tolerance, being tolerant of others, but I have not seen too many who really understand what it means or the significance.

    For me, tolerance means allowing for the idea that I may not have all of the answers to life and not judging others because they choose to live according to other doctrines, theologies or paths. However, that doesn't mean I sit idly by if another tries to force his/her beliefs on me because, while I may not have all of the answers, he/she doesn't necessarily have those answers either and owes me the same tolerance for my beliefs (this assumes beliefs do not condone or encourage hurting others).

    Statements like 'In God We Trust', while I do not believe are directly meant as insults to others, individuals who want to advertise on vehicles and buildings,etc do not show or understand tolerance of others and their individual beliefs. And for some, the idea of other beliefs does threaten their own ideas about religion, which is why I believe we're seeing a lot of outbursts from people wanting to broadcast their beliefs--they feel like their beliefs are being infringed on even though they've never had to face other ideas before.

    I understand the reasoning, but as I said, it doesn't mean their beliefs are any more valid than others. So it's a good thing to call people and groups out on these kinds of issues, and over time people will become more truly tolerant.

  1. Edie's Avatar Edie

    We are supposed to have a separation of church and state, period. That does NOT mean that I have less belief in God than others.

  1. gene's Avatar gene

    its on our money but if an atheist does not believe in a GOD so the the words In God we trust are nothing but words like the name of a town or the the word Police on the side of a police car. So atheist what is the big deal.

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      gene, bless your heart, you are missing the point. Do you understand what the separation of church and state really means? Yes, it was incorrectly added to our money in the 1950's, and could end up rightly being removed, but the question in mind is, should peoples tax dollars be spent adding those words to government vehicles?

      I would oppose my tax dollars being spend on adding superfluous words such as "We love atheists", or "We love Allah", or "We love Vishnu", or "Zeus has risen, come follow him", Or, " Take upon yourselves the name of Zeus". These are police vehicles gene, not Pope mobiles.

      ?♥️

  1. Crystal Papail's Avatar Crystal Papail

    I'm sorry I once was this kind of person but this would never piss me off. They need to grow up and let our god loving people alone

  1. Randy K's Avatar Randy K

    What amazes me is that just about everyone that has responded has also has issues with other things that "offend" them. If you are offended its OK "GET OVER IT!" move on. I am sick and tired of being told that this is bad and that is bad just because people have nothing better to do than whine and complain about NONSENSE!

    Get over it and live your life LEAVE EVERYONE ELSE ALON!

  1. Rowland Barkley's Avatar Rowland Barkley

    If Police where there with their highest value being to help people by upholding the law, then their cars should not have "In god we Trust" on them. But if police behaviour is based on personal feelings, and directed my mysterious impulses, then they should have the same right to put "In god we Trust" on their cars, as the Nazis had to have "Gott mit Uns" (God with us) on their trouser belts.

  1. Michael's Avatar Michael

    I am DEEPLY saddened at nearly ALL comments contained in this thread. if anyone would actually read or do the research on the actual FAITH of Christians is you would find that it is a most profound belief system. in short it clearly states that love ALL as ones self, do no harm to others, and to tolerate everyone's opinion and belief. Christians may not except everything however they are forbidden to judge anyone or thing through tolerance.

    it would also seem that most of you have replaces tolerate with acceptance as the world propaganda has pushed upon us.

    in closing it is my opinion that anyone that would argue with love all and do no harm would be the opposite and endorse hate and harm even if through ignorance.

    thank you and be in peace in whatever YOU choose to believe.

  1. Albert A Hernandez's Avatar Albert A Hernandez

    It is truly amazing all the chatter going on about "GOD." Many talk of HIM as though HE is just some member of a religious mob. HE is not. HE is GOD, the ONE you and I are going to have to give an account to some day. I do agree with Sheriff Ivey, though. That America is at a "tipping point." Why? Because we have kicked GOD out of our schools, our workplace, and our government. We are now seeing the ramifications of our sin. There is a GOD, a CHRIST, and a HOLY SPIRIT. There is also a devil and a hell. But there is also a heaven and the love of GOD. So let's be careful what we believe and what we don't believe because what is at stake is our souls. "But anyone who denies me here on earth will be denied before God's angels...but anyone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven." (LUKE 12:9-10). The choice is ours. GOD bless all is my sincere prayer.

    Albert A. Hernandez, D. Div., Ph. D.

    1. Lori's Avatar Lori

      "God" cannot be kicked out of anywhere. "God" is in each and every person, creature and thing in the universe. It is your perception of "God" that has been kicked out, (I put that in quotation because god is many things to many people) and I do feel sorry for you because you have such a narrow view of who "God" is. "God" is beyond your, and mine, comprehension. "God" is much more than what is in your book. It's too bad you feel the need to confine the Source of Creation to your own misguided perspective.

    2. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      And the proof of your claim that your god is real can presumably be demonstrated by.....how, Albert?

      Also, please educate us in how you determined all the other gods that people say is real, is false.

      ?♥️

      1. Albert A Hernandez's Avatar Albert A Hernandez

        Thank you, LIONHEART. At least you are intelligent enough to ask.

           I can only go by what the Scriptures say and what I have experienced in my spiritual life. I have chosen to believe the Scriptures because I feel they are true. They are God's message to the world. They teach that there is only One God, One Savior, and a Holy Spirit. I have served in the different churches and I have my credentials. I am by no means a neophyte in these matters of "religion." But more importantly, I myself have experienced miracles due to divine intervention. For example, I am a war veteran. I served in Vietnam as a combat medic in the front lines of battle. I saw young men die before my eyes. Some I saved, some I lost. But that was war. I made it back without a scratch, something very rare for combat medics. That was not luck. I prayed every night when I was in 'Nam. I didn't know the Lord in those days, but I did believe in God, the God of the Bible. Many years later and after much study and service, and many trials and tribulations, I became a minister of God. I've been through what I call, "the religious mill." 
           The Bible tells us that not everyone will believe, that only those who choose to believe will enter the Kingdom of God. When you open your heart and spirit, God will reveal Himself to you. This is because God is spirit. In every human being, there is a spirit and a soul. There is also an intellect (the mind). God gave us all that so that we could make our own choices. But it is the person who must seek God. God does not force Himself upon us. That's why God has picked His ministers, to preach and teach His truth. It's a calling that comes with time; it's a frightening calling because when you get involved in the affairs of God, it's a big deal. It's serious. You can mess with everything and everyone, but when it comes to God, be careful, it is your soul that's at stake. I could cite all kinds of Scripture but how many of you would believe them? 
            Many years ago if someone would have told me that someday I would be preaching and teaching as a minister, I would have laughed. I'm not laughing now. I am only a sinner who believes in "GOD" and trying to save souls, that's all. By the way, I once asked similar questions. Take care, and...GOD BLESS!
        

        Albert

        P.S. Read my book, THE AUDACITY OF TRUTH. It'l answer many questions.

        1. Nathaniel Robert Hunt's Avatar Nathaniel Robert Hunt

          And I have the religious freedom to worship Gods of my choosing, which I do. You and other christians can't stop me, my church or other Americans from doing so.

        2. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

          Thank you for your reply. Just to let you know, I’ve been where you are, as a High Priest, and I too went off “feelings”. I felt it was right, I felt that my god was real. I later came to acknowledge that I had been fooling myself all those years that feelings don’t do anything for factual reality. My feelings of truth were no more than feelings others get in other religions telling them they also have the truth.

          The reality is, until I can get demonstrable evidence, which of course is sadly lacking to none existent, I cannot accept others claims of feelings their god is real.

          I’ve known of instances where in a court of law people have been removed from juries because they said they had a feeling the defendant was innocent, only to find later with all evidence brought to trial that the person was found to be guilty.

          Thank you for your service!

          ?❤️

          1. Albert A Hernandez's Avatar Albert A Hernandez

            Noted, Lionheart. I am only trying to share my faith with others.

    3. Rowland Barkley's Avatar Rowland Barkley

      Your story sounds rather masculine. Guess you may have forgotten the firsts few lines in your studies of the Torah (that some call Old Testament) the creator of the world is Elohim, a word that is FEMININE PLURAL, correctly translated as "We [feminine] are creating the world" NOT "I [masculine] did create the world."

      I am not suggesting that the world needs a god to create it, just saying that dogmatic writing comes from a sadly incompetent reading of sources.

  1. Albert A Hernandez's Avatar Albert A Hernandez

    I'm saddened too, Michael. Many talk of God as though He is just some member of a religious mob. HE IS NOT! He is GOD, the One we all are going to have to give an account to. I do agree with Sheriff Ivey that America is at a "tipping point." We have kicked God out of our schools, our workplace, and our government. We are now seeing the ramifications of our sin. There is a GOD, there is a CHRIST, and there is a HOLY SPIRIT. There is also a devil and a hell. But there is also a Heaven and the love of God. The choice is ours. Take care and God bless.

    Albert A. Hernandez, D. Div., Ph. D.

    1. Lori's Avatar Lori

      As I responded to you above, Albert, "God" cannot be kicked out of anywhere. "God" exists in everything in the universe. It is your perception of "God" that has been kicked out. "God" belongs to everyone, on their own terms. You live in a state of fear that has been inflicted on you by Christians of the past. It's time to grow up and think for yourself. Try working on loving and accepting others for who they are, instead of trying to force your agenda down other peoples throats.

      1. Michael's Avatar Michael

        Lori i believe you are mistaken Albert is coming from a place of faith, love and tolerance in the face that even though there are those who don't believe in God, God believes in them. . . and yes there are even people who call themselves Christians question HIS existence. God still wants everyone to come into the kingdom of heaven but HE gives you the choice weather or not to believe in HIM and enter into the kingdom of heaven

        Bless you and your family for your time.

        1. Lori's Avatar Lori

          Michael, you say Albert is coming from a loving place? In one of his posts he made it quite clear that non-believers and those who believed other than the way he believed, were the enemy. Somehow that doesn't strike me as loving. My response to that was that the only people he would effect were the ones who believed as he did.

          So am I mistaken that "God cannot be kicked out of anywhere? Am I mistaken that "God" exists in everything in the universe? Am I mistaken that "God" belongs to everyone, not just fundamental Christian?

          The fear he lives with is not of "God", it's of everything that doesn't fit into his perception of "God". THAT is a problem. If you agree with that same perception you also have a problem. You don't want people to come together in "Gods" love. You want people to see your, and only yours, spiritual perspective. That is sad. "God" is not confined to such a small space as the mind of a fundamental Christian. "God" moves through everyone.

          1. Michael's Avatar Michael

            thank you for your thoughts. know a true christian by the way he represents the word of god . . . the christian will not condemn you but prey for you, the christian will reflect love not hate, and a christian believes with their whole heart that the only way to heaven is through believing that Jesus died for our sins and through him is the ONLY way to heaven. if one calls themselves a christian and does not unfortunately they to read and understand their bible remembering that the context of the word is very important. i do NOT condone hate in any form and love all as i love myself which IS governed by the Biblical doctrine and understand if you do not quite understand what i am saying.

            so that you know where i'm coming from,

            1 John 4:1-4 1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to determine if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses Jesus as the Christ who has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not confess Jesus is from God, and this is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming, and now is already in the world. 4 You are from God, little children, and have conquered them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 1 John 4:1-4

            thank you for your time and may God bless you and your family

          2. Lori's Avatar Lori

            Michael, you pray for us because we do not believe as you do, and do not believe in the bible, which you keep throwing around like a weapon. I don't think you realized how repulsive this is. It literally turns people away. I don't think this is what "God" want you to do. What you profess has nothing to do with "God", and has everything to do with your perception of "God", only. I'm sorry you cannot comprehend that.

            I was a Christian. I read the bible. I know where you're coming from. I also realize you seem to think you have a full grasp of this book and the workings of "God". Whether you realize it or not, this is arrogant and, IN YOUR MIND, puts you pretty much on the same level as an all knowing "God". NOT a humble attitude in any way. It is a very self-righteous path you and Albert walk.

            I will pray for you both, in hopes you will learn to see beyond your hardened perception and understand that your way is not the only way. There is love beyond the borders of your belief system. Most of us are not your enemies, as you've been lead to believe.

            May "God" bless you and open your mind to the joy of an interconnected consciousness, filled with many ways of perceiving the mystery that is "God".

      2. Albert A Hernandez's Avatar Albert A Hernandez

        Good! At least you respond. Perhaps my explanation to Lionheart will answer some of your views. But you're right, I am in a state of fear, fear of the Lord, that is. "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." Psalm 111:10. Anything else?

        Albert

  1. Rev. RJ Levesque, Jr.'s Avatar Rev. RJ Levesque, Jr.

    Everyone has some very good points here, but even though I may face backlash after stating this I have a strong suggestion... Perhaps we would show our education more if we keep debating with these insightful points rather than just turn this into a "Let's All Bash the Christians!" fest please? I am a Pagan Priest, but bashing another religion is not how I would want to make my point against them, that would only show my ignorance and inability to prove my point without retaliating. Just a thought...

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      I totally understand your point, however, when Christians start insisting that we have to take upon ourselves the name of someone called Jesus, or we are going to Hell, and that they know with a surety because of their “feelings” and “belief structure”, that a God exists, even though they cannot demonstrably prove it, then they can expect people to call them out on it. So, why should Christians bash unbelievers of their cult and not expect a rebuttal?

      Just saying!

      ?❤️

    2. Lori's Avatar Lori

      In my "Christian Bash" I am not retaliating against Christianity. I am retaliating against the closed mindedness that so many seem to hold. My husband is a progressive Christian. He recognizes the "God" energy in everyone and everything. Progressive Christians have managed to rise above the fundamental premise that only they truly know the will of "God". I am also a Pagan Priestess. My spiritual dimension is unlike anyone else's because no two people spiritually connect to the Source in the same way. My perspective is no better or worse than yours. Any fundamental practice is of a tribal mentality and does not build bridges. It burns them. It keeps the human race in a constant state of division. This division causes much pain and psychological conflict in the world.

  1. Albert A Hernandez's Avatar Albert A Hernandez

    "For those who believe in God, no explanation is necessary. For those who do NOT believe in God, no explanation is possible." St. Thomas Aquinas, Theologian

    How true that is, I have found.

    Albert

    1. Michael's Avatar Michael

      Albert, please only use Scripture to make a point anything else only hurts Christians. many atheists have come to know Christ through the Scripture.
      thank you god bless

      1. Albert A Hernandez's Avatar Albert A Hernandez

        Very good. Thank you. Someone's paying attention.

    2. CB Cuff's Avatar CB Cuff

      I think what 'ol Tom meant saying " no explanation is possible", is that is beyond words, and more about one's imagination.

  1. Rowland Barkley's Avatar Rowland Barkley

    whatever this has to do with Police cars, many have become Atheists by carefully studying scripture. Others avoid this by reading 'scripture' in a 500 year old translation created from mixing 350 Latin manuscripts,. ALL DIFFERENT, translated from Greek. Thereby allowing the reader to believe it means whatever they want it to mean. Which is what is done with any good poetry.

    Another reader takes this old poetic compilation of 'scripture' to mean something completely different. That is really nice if they are happier to believe that the personal belief they chose was in some book.

    But when "Blood, Water, and Soul" got translated by King James to "Father, Son and Holy Ghost", we see that those quoting "scripture" are often in a fantasy world as to what was actually written.

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