Are the teachings of Jesus Christ “liberal talking points”? Is His philosophy of love and forgiveness “weak”?
Apparently, it depends who you ask. A prominent Christian leader is sounding the alarm, claiming that Christianity is experiencing a crisis of identity that directly challenges some of the most central teachings in the Bible.
Will the biblical path of love and acceptance win out, or is a more pugnacious approach to religion on the rise?
Is Turning the Other Cheek "Weak?"
In an interview with NPR, Russell Moore, the former head of the Southern Baptist Convention and current editor-in-chief of Christianity Today, says that he fears the tense political landscape has changed Christianity.
Here's Moore talking about his experience:
Moore says he finds that many Christians now view values like mercy, love, and forgiveness as "weak" and that many Christians seem to be in search of a more hard line version of their faith.
"Multiple pastors tell me, essentially, the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount, parenthetically, in their preaching—'turn the other cheek'—[and] to have someone come up after to say, 'Where did you get those liberal talking points?'" he explains.
"When the pastor would say, 'I'm literally quoting Jesus Christ' ... The response would be, 'Yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak," he continued. "When we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we're in a crisis."
Moore appears to be referring to a new crop of evangelical leaders who take the fight directly to their perceived enemies over culture war issues. For example, fire-and-brimstone style pastors who burn books they don’t like have gained larger followings in recent years.
To Moore, the core values of Christianity are at stake. And his concerns raise some interesting questions.
Is a Christian a Christian if they are rejecting the core teachings of Jesus?
Is it "soft" to love thy neighbor?
How Did We Get Here?
Moore can point out a few culprits he believes responsible. For one, the current political climate. Thanks to increased polarization, he speculates that adhering to religious teachings has taken a backseat to scoring political points.
However, Moore says a larger factor is our collective loss of community.
“I think that the roots of the political problem really come down to disconnection, loneliness, sense of alienation,” he suggests. “Even in churches that are still healthy and functioning, regular churchgoing is not what it was a generation ago, in which the entire structure of the week was defined by the community.”
What do you think? Are the tolerant teachings of Christ outdated? Or is this antagonistic rebrand of Christianity a misguided approach?
253 comments
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Donald Alexander Netherton
I say this often, modern Christianity, with Jesus being too "woke" is not following Jesus. If they are not following Jesus, who can they be following, according to their dualist religion? Jesus himself said that there would be false prophets in the land, preaching in his name, healing in his name, but he says when hhe (Jesus) sees them again, he will say "get away from me you evil person, I don't know you". He said there would be preachers out there who on the outside were dressed as woolly sheep, but inside they were as ravening wolves.
*Note - I do not capitalize "he and him", as I do not believe in the divinity of Jesus. The teachinigs are important, not the individual.
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Christina Solomon
this antagonistic rebrand of Christianity is not misguided, but a response to my living reality of abuse and misuse by others. my decision to be a tough, not turn the other cheek Christian is as a result, unfortunately, of past experience when I have turned the other cheek, I have been used as a welcome mat and it was not a pleasant feeling; I vowed not to let it happen again!
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Mark A Regenthal
I don't know, but the depiction of Christ in this article and most of the other depictions is far and away too white. I wonder how the Evangelicals cotton that one.
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Minister Butterworth
The prerequisite of demonstrable evidence is for minds unable to comprehend Faith. Im not dreaming this up. God is real. Jesus is real. There love is real. What makes so many persons hate/fear Christianity is that the consequence of sin and/or the denial of Jesus is also real. Denial won't make it not so.
Cancer sucks. Sickness and death were not in the original plan for the world. They were brought on by eve & adam when they committed the original sin. From then on sickness and death becomes part of our lives.
Isn't it wonderful that God sent his son to sacrifice to pay for our sins. John 3:16. This gives us ALL eternal salvation, we need only to believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior, confess and ask forgiveness of our sins. Isn't God awsome!!!!
Im genuinely happy for you in that your having a great life. But what of your immortal soul? I know you'll respond to this in your usual manner but take time to ponder the question.
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Minister Butterworth
Comment removed by user.
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Minister Butterworth
EDIT;
That was supposed to be eve and adam. Not eve and amp adam.
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Lionheart
I’m sure you’re not dreaming it up, Raymond, you are getting it all from a book, much of it written by historians decades later who never met those they wrote about. You make a claim that your God is real with no demonstrable evidence to support your claim. All you have is the fallacy of your faith, which is no different to everyone else’s claim on earth to their faith, no matter which religion it is.
There’s a good possibility someone called Jesus was real, but that’s about it. No historians, contemporary to that time, wrote about him. Don’t you find that kinda weird?
I don’t think there are that many people who hate/fear Christianity today, like there used to be during the disaster of the brutal inhumane inquisition, but sadly, that’s religion for you.
As for a god sending his son, eternal salvation, original sin, immortal souls, illnesses being brought about by sin, those too are also fallacious, with no evidence whatsoever. They are just stories in a book, much like stories in other books, such as The Book of Mormon, Bhagavad Gita, Quran, the Vedas etc. You’ve chosen to believe the stories in your book, like others believe the stories in their books, all claiming their stories to be true.
Your claim to fame is waiting, in the form of a Nobel Prize, for the first person on earth to prove any deity is real. I think we all know that’s not going to happen, don’t we?
What I can comprehend, is logic, reason, and critical thought, all of which are sadly lacking when it comes to demonstrable evidence to prove the reality of any of the earths religions.
Thank you for your reply. 🤗
🦁❤️
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Minister Butterworth
On the subject of the Inquisition, you are correct. They were terrible, but it's not the religion, But fanatical zealots using the religion for there own sick desires. In those days people were not overly educated. It would have been a simple task to get a bunch of people scared out of there minds. The next logical step would be a mob. Today we have the same mob mentality only it's thru Facebook or the like.
Its no wonder so many people have such a negative view of Christianity. It seems like every day we hear of another sick pervert or some con artist taking advantage of God's flock. It's hard not to think negativity when every association were getting is negative. As to fixing the image, im drawing a blank. All i can do is be the Christian i feel like God wants me to be. Im not perfect. Not even close. I can only live the best i can in the name of Jesus and hope to lead by example.
I know the Bible has been rewritten on several occasions. The message may change but the truth remains. The 10 commandments have not changed.
I feel that we, you and I, are both very dugin to our beliefs. While i must spread the word of God to all persons i can, the final choice is yours and yours alon, as well as the consequences there of. I do respect your right to go in your own direction tho i will continue to pray for you.
Thank you,
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Veronica Ruth Cruse
The biggest sign ever that tRump-fish is the antichrist. its despicable that these capital K kristians are so cruel and callow. It just makes me so glad I am a democrat and always have been. If I were a christian republican right now my world would be shattered. I really dont know how they can live with themselves except for the fact that they are so ignorant and shallow that they cant even see the nose on their face.
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Gloria Jean Guffey
Refer to: Acts 20:28. Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
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Minister Butterworth
Rmd,
God IS the very definition of omnipotent. God can do anything. He doesn't want to make us do anything. God wants us to choose to love him. If God made us love him He wouldn't have gained anything. When we choose God, He then has our love and our loyalty. Just out of curiosity, what faith are you a reverend of?
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Lionheart
He is that omnipotent, he loves to show himself to dispel any doubt he’s real……Oh!…..but wait. He doesn’t! 🤔
I wonder why? Let’s try and find a reason he doesn’t show himself because we don’t want people to think he’s not real. How about……”It’s because he wants people to only believe he’s real by….Faith?” That’s it! People will go for that. It sounds good, and really plausible. I think people will fall for it, and it’s all we’ve got anyway Well, they have no choice….right? Can anyone think of any other good ideas that we can con people with?
We need their dedication, and in many cases their money, so if you’ve got any more ideas, let’s hear it. 🤷🏼
🦁❤️
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Minister Butterworth
If God were to show Himself and prove to all the nonbelievers that He is all He is said to be, He would then have a flock following Him out of fear. God wants us to choose Him out of love. He wants us to want to serve Him and be with Him. A flock of the faithless and fearful just isn't the goal.
I'll grant you that many people use Christianity to con moneys from true believers, many use it for a little feeling of power. Some lost souls use it for other more depraved things. Theres no shortage of immoral charlatans just wanting to take advantage of others. This gives the true Christians an undeserved bad image.
I don't want your money, nor do I want anything material from you. I do hope that you will find that which you require someday to convert and be saved. I will pray for you and hope for you a happy and fulfilling life.
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Lionheart
And that’s yet another human construct created to keep people believing, with no demonstrable evidence whatsoever. Very much like Islamists, Mormons, Hindus, JW’s, et al.
I’m actually having a very happy and fulfilling life already. Children dying with cancer aren’t, even though I’m sure people are talking to a wall, floor, or ceiling, thinking they are talking to a deity to help them, reality is, they continue to suffer. I’m sure you’ll be able to dream up something to justify that as well. Religious indoctrination can be so cruel…..right?🤷🏼
🦁❤️
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Minister Butterworth
Response below.
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William I. Hegeman
At least some , knowingly or not, are admitting they are not Christian.
Mark 3:20-23.
As a pagan minister, I support Jesus's loving ministry and his stance keeping capitalism and church separate.
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Stephen Smith
Matthew 12: 36-37 Galatians Matthew 8:12
All of GOD words are strong, every word stand, and every man shall bow.
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Lionheart
Did your God really say something then, or did you read that somewhere in a book?
🦁🤭
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Lisbeth Kieran Bushey
Jesus was a Middle Eastern socialist. I may be a Pagan priestex, but I was raised in the church and have read multiple versions of the gospels. Jesus had excellent points to make about how humankind should treat each other. If that's considered "woke", good - people should be woke. If they're being seen as bad, then maybe "christians" need to take a hard look at the teachings of Jesus and whether they're actually behaving as Christ commanded them to.
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Neil M Sunderland
This poor flock is still worshipping their golden bull...
https://youtu.be/K3QDDlWmR9Q?si=cQWXLGqurWozaOs0
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
So, now Southern Baptists want to be Muslim Extremists?
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David Patrick Gayle
Another moment of the creation telling the Creator what they did wrong? So much of this......
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Tammy S Gardner
Well if you really read the Bible and do not take it out of context many things are sins. But Jesus says he will forgive us of our sins if we repent. He lso told the apostles he would make them fishers of men. Basically that they should go out and preach the good news. He does hate sin in any form. However he forgave the adulteress and Paul and many others. He did say if one is sinning and continues in the sin not to even eat with them. I do not believe that was to shun them as much as to keep the saved from falling back into their own sins. However, nowhere did he say Kill them in my name. Some were so far gone he had to intervene. The new testament does not advise people to hate and despise each other or to kill each other because one is wrong and one is right. Who knows if the sinner may yet repent under the right circumstances. Some do not understand that Jesus wants voluntary followers, not forced slaves. Most of us were totally lost before we finally got the message and turned around. So why condemn others who are lost just like we were at one time. There will always be people who would rather follow tradition than the word of God. The Pharisees had done so in Jesus time and he rebuked them. In our current time there is so much push to force the word on others even if they do not agree than to tell them about Jesus and let God do the work. That kind of love leaves people feeling trapped and enslaved rather than free and willing to do what they must out of love. The question is now how do we get to the place where we once again do what God asks and let him do the work. I think in pride some want to say "look how many people I turned around for Jesus. " It should be we are planting and watering and giving praise to the Lord for what HE (GOD) has accomplished.
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Gloria Jean Guffey
Amen!
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James Riggle-Johnson
Maybe the bible should have said the Woke will inherit the earth.
Moore states one of the reasons is the current political climate, but this started way back when a country almost a quarter century old elected the first black man as president. The far-right, evangelical, white nationalist lost their minds, and elected an idiot who said he was the chosen one. The even stranger thing is that people agreed.
This is why I as a Christian have my doubts about the whole thing. I have questioned my faith for years because people show absolute hatred towards what I am. The evangelicals took a religion and made their own. Now people want prayer in school, but only the prayers they deem appropriate. Book banning has begun, and book burning can’t be far behind. I think that might have already begun, too, I don’t know. Next, they will begin rewriting the bible to only include the passages they want. Of course, that’s how we got the current version as well. How long before they begin the holy war in the name of Christ?
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
"And God so loved humans, that he gave them free will - the proof of His love being their free will."
-Book of insanity, 2-47.
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Rev Ned
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
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Paul Johnson
People still trying to explain how Jesus thinks are what He was thinking at the time He spoke are acted. Oh foolish man as He ask Job "who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge". It really is comical to see the positions that man will take when trying to take the place of God. I think it would be best to leave His word alone and except it for what was taking place. Are maybe we could find three friends and a wife like he had. If we don't want to believe the word then why debate the issue's. Your never going to get the devil to serve God. When we allow ourselves to get in a conversation with the old serpent your going to lose, just read Gen 3. He was more cunning than all the rest of the beast. Jesus knew not to get in a conversation while on earth, are have we forgot that "It is written from the devil" what's important was how Jesus responded "it is written" not once but three times you shall not tempt the Lord thy God". We know there are many people who think they know what Jesus mean's even though they don't even believe in Him. really are only about 20 seconds outside of the garden, still acting like Adam and Eve wanting to have it our way. Jesus was so selfish that next to the last thing that He said was "FORGIVE THEM THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY ARE DOING"
As for the question am I good? I would have to refer to what Jesus said when ask are was called good master. Why do you call me good when there is only one who is good and that is my Father. So if Jesus didn't feel like He should be called good why would I have anymore right to the same question?
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Gloria Jean Guffey
Amen.
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Rev. Rory
"Is a Christian a Christian if they are rejecting the core teachings of Jesus?"
I read the NPR article. The current wave of Christians that believe that the teachings of Jesus are "woke" are not Christian when they reject the teachings of Christ. The current anti-woke Christians are more Old Testament Fire and Brimstone Punishing God Bible Interpretation Followers. OTFBPGBI+ (I'm sure they would dislike that accurate title.)
Fire and Brimstone is the threat of Hell or damnation (= punishment that lasts forever) after death.
I don't tell people what to believe and I don't care what they believe, but to call yourself a Christian when you reject the teachings of Christ is a political position, not religion. It's religion as a political weapon, without actual religion!
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Timothy C Stone
Totally agree.
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Elizabeth Baatz
This is what happens when there is no separation of Church and State! Religion becomes a weapon! Evangelical lunatics are the ones being heard because they are the loudest, if you christians want to keep your religion as the words of Christ? You need to get loud and stop letting these false idols speak for you!
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Gary Stone
Jesus had to call out the Pharisees in His day for putting their own Embellishments on the law to fit their goals and objectives. While I believe that the Bible is inspired by God, the books were written by men who came with their own biases. Unless it is a direct quotation from Jesus, it may not express the original intent of the Creator. The Sermon on the Mount is supposed to be the words of Jesus. Those are the words that I will take the most heed to. I would choose to be like Jesus and not like the pharisees.
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Najah P Tamargo
Minister Najah Tamargo USA
I really don't think politics has caused this riff, but the opposite. Religion has changed politics, which our founding fathers attempted to keep apart, and for good reason. I have studied many, many religions and they have one common thread. Peace, respect, forgiveness, love. That wasn't just Jesus' cornerstone. Anytime a person (or group) take selected words or quotes from a religious doctrine, and twist and turn it to suit their own beliefs, is called ZEALOTRY! And THAT is what creates conflicts, war, hatred, prejudice and intolerance. So, if the "fire and brimstone" believers want to go to "war" with each other....so be it. Those of us who prefer to stick to the peace, respect, forgiveness and love aspect.......may we prevail!
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Stacey Owens
Everyone on this post has met the Christ. You met him when you did the right thing, by helping some one, when you treated someone with kindness, and when you thought on making the right choices. I say to people all the time, the God in Christ Jesus is Holy. God communicates with your spirit, even though you don't know you have one. God is a spirit and yet those who believe in him have a relationship with him. This is how he leads you in your life. The body is not a trophy to be expose but a temple or tabernacle for God to dwell in and be revealed. God in Jesus Christ is the way and the truth and the life. If you want to blame someone for the world conditions, blame your selves. Theres none riggteous no not one in the world.
Some of you need to ask your selves, are you the world or are you what God created you to be: LIFE. Life don't steal, kill, or destroy.
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Minister Butterworth
What a pitiful state the world is in. Its sad.
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Gene Schenck
Too many arguments remember the movie The Earth Stood Still this is what this planet needs for 1 day a week for eternity until there is peace. Martin Luther said the earth will never be at rest and heaven at peace and never be like earth this seems like it's time to chance that or we will destroy ourselves. May Jesus make all weapons melt like wax and turn into mush.
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Geoffrey C. Olive
Don’t forget all the other religious fiction books like the quran, hadith, vedas, in addition to all the buybulls!
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Tareq Asfour
Even if you disagree with Quran, and last Prophet M meaning the way he practiced in works Hadith he comes from direct bloodline of Prophet Abraham(pbuh) son Ishmael(pbuh) who was promised by G’D a great kingdom as Prophet Abraham(pbuh) son Issac(pbuh) also promised a great kingdom whom both are brothers…So please don’t insult another minister here, we are here to be respectful to each other and be peaceful not to make more unfavorable opinions to offend. Did you who is Prophet Abraham(pbuh) father was Terah is ? Terah was creating and making the Idols for all middle east before Prophet Abraham(pbuh) started to doubt, question and when he started to destroy all his fathers idols, then was gifted with the truth from G’D(swt) by a beautiful Angel the message
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P. Keith Benefiel
There is no "Bible", only interpretations. 40,000 at last count. Take your pick.
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Geoffrey C. Olive
Don’t forget all the other religious fiction books like the quran, hadith, vedas, in addition to all the buybulls!
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Dorothy Hawkins
If the scene has changed that much, community and the sense of communal responsibility for the wellness of the whole group is lost.
While we SAY we espouse Jesus' teachings in our own lives - - do we REALLY? If we buy into the politicized rhetoric of the politicians, there's a clear dividing line: those who take LITERALLY the Words in the "Good Book" and those who INTERPRET the Words in the Good Book.
Keep in mind that religious trends come and go - to go with the flow of the masses in scrambling after individual material wealth, only for the few, while telling falsehoods about the Jesus of my own understanding, seems to be the order of the day.
Jesus was a REBEL - so were all the Luminaries we've heard about from that book and other wisdom teachings from elsewhere. That book has been CORRUPTED along political lines all along the way. It doesn't even REALLY say what it purports to say.
Why SO MANY VERSIONS of the same book - all with a different "slant" to them - HUMAN corruptability, and the tendency toward "taking it easy" when favors have been granted us...from "above". Above where, I'm asking? The same systems that have been favoring the few over the many since time began? Doubtful, in my view.
Writers like Paul Wallis - an Anglican priest/ancient language expert/teacher to the pastors writes about this kind of "changing" that took place in his "Eden" series. His writings seem to bridge the gaps between the mystical/practical/and LOGICAL understandings of "The Good Book". I highly recommend his works.
For those of us who were steeped in the "mysteries" through rigid faith systems find his work to refresh our enthusiasm for the Jesus we have known. Yes, Jesus was a rebel - but a peaceful warrior. He DID overturn the money-changers at the temple, however - and that doesn't sound WEAK to me: it sound STRONG!
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Randy Henry
There is a lot of misinformation how each person see's Jesus and interprets the bible. Jesus was sinless, but fought against the sinners when he had to. It's all written about the money changers if you look for something in the bible you will find it.
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Dr. Jerry Moyes
None of us know what Jesus taught, we weren't there and if an accurate record exists it's unknown to the public. The multitude of variations of the Christian Bible contradict and disagree with each other on nearly everything, making no variation an accurate source. To take things a step further, the Christian Bible was first compiled centuries after the time of Jesus Christ, and has been edited, altered, translated, and rewritten more time than any other book in publication. Everything about the book from its creation, through each revision, and edits were done by people, many of which weren't even Christians, who desired to control the masses to their own ends. From the creation of the Christian Church, which was well after the time of Christ, The Church has done everything possible to put the priestly class between the followers and God, representing it as the only conduit of communication and knowledge, to control the masses. If you want to know and understand the teaching of Jesus Christ you need to seek documentation outside of The Bible and communicate with God directly. I suspect you'll discover what I've discovered, teaching of unconditional love, limitless compassion, and tolerance.
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Ted Prettyman
Teachings of Christ are being misunderstood and misinterpreted. Only patience and time will bring about healing.
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Mary Lynne Lightowler
We do see the swaying of people simply through charisma. It may be quite difficult to stand for any values in the face of a well-heeled or highly influential community leader. However, it is precisely herem and in the anger of what may harm others, that the minister of God must, in love and as love, stand with their solid values in their ministry. I truly want to live these 10 values: Trust, Honesty, Tolerance, Gentleness, Joy, Defenselessness, Generosity, Patience, Faithfulness and Open-Mindedness -- as I've found them defined in ACIM-CE (A Course in Miracles - CE Edition -- current words from Jesus). (you can see them yourselves for free via entering - acimce.app - in a new tab window). Blessings.
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David Godin
I see a religious evolution beginning. Some churches will move away from Jesus and create a new God based religion emphasizing the old testament, perhaps cherry picking scripture. This will not be a clone of Judaism, but a more rigid, fire and brimstone doctrine.
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Lisbeth Kieran Bushey
Just like the Sons of Jacob did in The Handmaid's Tale.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
It's already happened - they just forgot to change the name of the religion.
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Reynaldo Echavaria
God's words not mine:
Deuteronomy 4:2 New International Version
2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you.
Revelation 22:18-19 New International Version
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
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Lionheart
Have you read all that somewhere in a book?
Just as a heads up, the Harry Potter books are also fiction, just in case you want to believe they are true, if you read them.
🦁❤️
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Steven Ferrell
Jesus loved the sinner, but not the sin. We are told to do the same. We can love the person and pray for them and treat them with respect, without loving the life they may choose to live. Jesus was not weak on sun, but he worked to teach and educate the sinner as to there is a better life away from sin.
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JaZe
Do we really know what Jesus teachings were after so many centuries and bible revisions, exclusions, translations ...
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David Bastian
People would say he’s a communist as well. Because they weren’t taught the lessons, or they didn’t actually listen. We were taught those stories so we could realize that forgiveness and those “weak” qualities are things were supposed to take with us. They aren’t weak, it’s just hard to do when ppl don’t want to forgive, or help someone else, or look for peace over violence. I guess it’s much more difficult to be “weak” like this than it is to use anger and power over others. Especially when money is involved.
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William J Lewis
After reading most of the comments it appear everyone is full of "stuff", and they it is the only truth. Whether they are evangelical Christians or or any other religion including evangelical atheists. It may be better to research and read before proclaiming to the world your "Vast knowledge" and Answer for every human on earth. There are approximately 7.5 bn. "Opinions" and we each get 1.
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Geoffrey C. Olive
Why do xtians think jeebus was anything more than an average wandering prophet of the time who they claim performed miracles and also said he was the son of god? I perform miracles every day when I turn tea, coffee, orange juice and occasionally wine into water when I go to the toilet!
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
That's a good one! And aren't we all the 'son' of God - being here?
It's a simple question - with a simple answer.
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Chris Cardona
This reminds me of one of my favorite bumper stickers which states: “Jesus, please save me from your followers.”
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Merlin
Looking for justification to increase control.
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John R Liming
The Bible is very clear on what happens to people who reject the message of Jesus Christ and their destiny is not too pretty. That is all I have to say about it. True Christians will walk IN the Spirit and will hear the voice of Jesus and will obey what He tells them to do --"Woke" or not "Woke," Jesus is not a politician... Jesus is a King of a Kingdom of Love and forgiveness and power in the Holy Ghost... There are no voting booths in heaven ...The Bible says that there are many who seek to enter into the Kingdom of heaven but few that find it ....Jesus generously receives all who will come to Him .. He rejects nobody who seeks God and those who reject Him are going to Hell...It doesn't get any more complex than that.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
What kind of 'God' condemns a soul to an eternity of torture for breaking the 3rd commandment? When you think about it, that's not the position of a 'loving' God, it's the tactic of a mob boss. There are certain Christians - Evangelicals, I'm looking at you - who's 'loving' God, when looked at objectively, is a vain, abusive, authoritarian Daddy figure who has one punishment for anything that displeases Him, and it's the equivalent of swatting a fly with a nuclear bomb.
When you think about it, when you actually look at the world around you and the way it is set up. it becomes apparent that to some people religion is just a thinly veiled means of controlling and marginalizing others and then congratulating themselves for doing it. It's absolutely ludicrous.
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Amber Fry
As well as those who claim to be speaking for him or God.
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Lionheart
Are you getting all your information from a book?
Just as a heads up, the Book of Mormon is also a book of fiction, just in case you happen to read it.
🦁❤️
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Rev_Shaun
What the Evengelicals can never cope with this, if Jesus found that Matthew and Mark were married to Luke and John, the last supper would have been a disco party.
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Sherrell K Zitting
LEARN YOUR ABC's Read from right to left
https://images.app.goo.gl/Mfm1pNPPAD3N7fJM7
https://aish.com/the-mystical-power-of-hebrew-letters/
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/mystical-symbolism-hebrew-alphabet-deeper-exploration-kevin-kull-
http://www.walkingkabbalah.com/hebrew-alphabet-letter-meanings/
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Sherrell K Zitting
Every letter of the alphabet is a unique and specialized bundle of enery, for purposes of creation. Thus Christ the Creator's identity as "The Word"... "I am the Word and the Life".
JOHN 1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. .
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Comment removed by user.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
That's fascinating SKZ!
I can only imagine if ALL of God's CREATION carried the same significance for you - as if ALL of God's Creation was VALUED as his 'Word' too. Crazy thought - right? =D
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ServantOfJudgement
Sherrell,
That's a very challenging concept for people to grab hold of. I get it, at the same time it's mind bending. I don't remember when I got it, just one day I noticed I did. It comes down to this from what I've found, any given personal situation, social condition or human event today can be spoken on from a document written thousands of years ago, surviving time to speak in that moment as if it interjects throughout all time simultaneously unhindered. It adapts to the now at any time. It communicates with us personally and the same passage can mean different things on different days to different people while maintaining it's surface meaning for all people. Repeatedly reading the same passages over time can lead to continued revelation, which makes it eternal for it has no real ending or beginning, not that we understand, not really. The bible accurately and satisfactorily demonstrates to it's believing reader that not the paper it's printed on but the word it's printed from is living and interactive.
Attempts to destroy the document are received with reproduction and growth of believers. It responds to attacks in a measurable and undesirable way to it's attackers.I can't think of any other interactive living thing or person that will not retaliate or retreat when attacked and is eternal in life other than our Lord Jesus The Christ. If Jesus of the Bible is real, the word of Holy Bible is is living and light.
It is the most unusual and unique book in existence.
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Father Frederick
Indeed "The Bible says a whole lot more", which becomes part of the problem. Have you ever debated what a good meal is on Reddit, Facebook, Quora, or Twitter. You're liable to get 100,000s of replies agreeing, and disagreeing with various levels of angst. Therein is the problem with the Bible.
If you ask a room of people about a passage, you may get 10%, (or more), who take the words to another level, or change the meaning, which is a human problem. The words don't change themselves, but humans have a way of taking things like "thou shall not commit adultery", and find a clever way to justify the act, all the while acting very pious in church. :)
And I think that's my point with the question. Jesus has not gone soft. However there are some who change or invent new things Jesus supposedly said or mean to avoid accepting responsibility for their actions. As one friend would say, "Can you commit adultery? Depends. Is holy trinity watching?" I think we know the answer to that.
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Father Frederick
Has Jesus Christ gone soft? The question posted in the past tense yields to one thinking that Jesus has changed his mind.
Until a theologian is able to rewrite the Bible with new text, which is guaranteed to be the words of Jesus, I'll stick by the old teachings. In the meantime, let us not forget that the best way to corrupt religion is by corrupting the words. If you can make something legal, which is illegal, change the law/words to make it legal. Has that happened in the teachings of modern scripture? Absolutely.
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ServantOfJudgement
Fredrick,
We think alike. We're quickly approaching the point where the heavily scrutinized biblical translations can be digitally and literally altered over night. It's already started, I think PETA cranked out a chocolate milk and cotton candy version. Secular following christians gobble the stuff up at breakneck speeds, then rebuke biblical Christianity as a whole.
The Bible says a whole lot more that "Love Thy Neighbor" does it not?
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Yep - it says a Lot I see you haven't had the guts to publicly proclaim here. I wonder why.
https://www.believeoutloud.com/voices/article/clobbering-biblical-gay-bashing/?
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Austin B Beamer
Plain and simply, The Word of God told us these days were coming! Hello!!?? They're here!
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Amber Fry
You do realize that's been said for many hundreds of years now, don't you? Plain and simply it also said nobody would actually be able to see the signs, not even those who claim to be his own.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
You think so? You're in good company!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events
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Rev Mark D
I seem to recall during the last three decades the extremely popular and widespread guidance prompt WWJD "What would Jesus do?" Now apparently it's moved to "Jesus is a p**sy." Did we all do a sudden Rip Van Winkle?
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Mark Hannon
The crowd witnessing the crucifixion of Christ called for Barabbas to be released. Apparently he was arrested for encouraging an uprising against the government of Rome.
Perhaps Trump is this country's Barabbas.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
probably more like Juda, sold his country for money
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Geoffrey C. Olive
I accidentally voted for this comment but the system would not let me cancel it!👎💩
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
It's okay - I thumbed up your comment to cancel your thumb's up! =D
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Well, both of you deserve another thumbsvup. Here you go.
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ServantOfJudgement
I thought "The Big Guy" sold us to China, not trump. Wouldn't put it past either one, they both cough gold dust when the doctor checks their package. Trumps gold dust is the shape of his head with perfect hair, Biden gold dust is in the shape of little girls heads, which is scratch-n-sniff of course.....
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Amber Fry
Misinformation and flat out lies. All it takes is an honest look at the investigative reports. Go look them up. They are serious eye openers to those who don't bother.
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Lionheart
I like that….and Biden is the country’s, Judas. 🤭
🦁❤️
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
drumph was more like Judas
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Tecla Caryl Loup
Except Trump would insist on being the Big Cheese, not the aide who snitched. Although I hear you can get a T-shirt emblazoned with a pic of Trump's mugshot for free if only you send his election committee $47. WHA'????
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
So says the Gospel of Fox News.
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Lionheart
I was only kidding. Biden doesn’t have the intellect to have been a Judas. If he was to have kissed anyone, it would more than likely have been someone a lot smaller. 🤭
🦁❤️
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Biden has the ire of conservatives because he's the running target of right-wing propaganda.
Your guy has: 91 criminal charges 6 bankruptcies 4 indictments 2 impeachments 1 convicted company 1 fake charity shut down 1 fake university shut down 26 sexual assault allegations $25 million fraud settlement $5 million sexual abuse verdict $2 million charity abuse judgement.
Substance wins again.
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Lionheart
And who is my guy? Assumptions can can lead to big problems, evidenced by those that assume their God is real, or their scriptures contain the word of their god.
🦁❤️
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
The Republican frontrunner.
Do tell me you never voted for him. I love a good yarn as much as you.
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Tecla Caryl Loup
Don't underestimate Biden.
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Lionheart
…or even those who write his scripts, plus the DoJ, FBI, and Secret Service. 🤭
🦁❤️
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ServantOfJudgement
I'm impressed with the pure unrefined hatred towards Jesus here. I could only call it breathtakingly biblical. Unknowingly and unintentionally these hate filled reactions reinforce ones belief in the outrageous accuracy of the bible. The Man, The God, The Flawless sure knows what he's talking about, WOW. Thanks for the that, you've put a pep in my step.
Other than disbelief, I'm not sure why bible readers have such a tough time reading black and white characters that form words we use every day. It's all there for anyone to read and study. We know the document is coded or encrypted against those with disbelief. We know they'll not be able to comprehend it's meaning even though they comprehend it's words. That's easily demonstrated here on this blog. I expect this to be extremely frustrating to those with disbelief, causing anger against those that believe and understand. Again, this is demonstrated here. The insults against those that believe just because they believe are frequent and predictable. Again and again and again the insults fly. It appears to be jealousy and envy though I don't think it is. I think it's hatred by proxy.
This is my response to the responses past and future. I need not worry, I know plenty more insults will fly in long after I've posted this. It's a timeless response and I know I won't be let down.
Regarding the actual character of Jesus, his expectations and outlook he has on us is very straightforward. Let's establish some biblical truth first:
God=Jesus=God=Jesus Anything God did, does and will do, Jesus the Christ is down with. Anything Jesus did, does and will do God is down with it. There is zero division or dissent. Absolutely zero. This means any hostility or admiration one has for the God of the old testament, can be safely applied to Jesus The Christ. Any admiration or hostility one has for Jesus of the new testament can be safely applied to the God of the old testament. Jesus=God=Jesus=God
There is a terrible misconception that Jesus blindly and unconditionally forgives regardless of the forgiven's willingness to be forgiven. This is extremely dangerous to one that believes in God. If you have no desire to be forgiven you will not be forgiven. If a drunkard does not see drunkenness as a sin, especially after reading it first hand, he will not be forgiven for his drunkenness. That translates into death, namely spiritual death which equates into eternal damnation. The 'Gentle Jesus' will hand deliver that soul directly to the lake of fire. Christian drunkards beware and consider what the Bible says about this.
(Fun fact intermission: To man, once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic for mankind knows nothing of forgiveness. To my Lord you can be a drunkard yesterday and not a drunkard today. How Holy and righteous our Lord is to absolve our failings in such a permanent way that he sees it no more lest we sin again.)
There are many instances of this in culture today. Bible specified sins are passed off as good today while biblical goods are passed off as cultural sins. Jesus said it would be this way and it is.
I know my closing statement will fuel the fire of the antichrists here but it is what it is, let's not get anything wrong. Let's make sure they know where they stand with Jesus. When Jesus returns, the billions that have rejected him will be slayed by him. Those billions of souls will then be delivered to eternal darkness. Churches that preach cotton candy and chocolate milk are leading their flock to the slaughter, literally. Those preachers will be held accountable for what they've done. He will not forgive a single soul after death or when he returns to slay the wicked, not one. He will not forgive a single soul that doesn't ask forgiveness, not one.
So says The Holy Bible.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
Servantofpoorjudgement
TL;DR stop with your crop dusting. the only one impressed with your expository is the one looking back at you in your mirror.
all you are doing is making arguments based on a collection of myths, fairy tales and superstitions, quoting from that same collection as proof of what you quote from that collection is true based on the fact that it's from that collection.
see: tautology
your views don't count to anyone that doesn't hold your views. plain and simple, disabuse yourself of the idea that you get to preach, teach and make law based on your goat-herder simplified view of the world.
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ServantOfJudgement
Rev JJ
I'm not telling you to believe anything. My views are irrelevant, your views are irrelevant, everyone's views are irrelevant. Is the Bible being taught as written? That's the question we've been dealt. When todays church is measured against the Bibles statements the answer becomes crystal clear. No, we are not teaching what the Bible teaches, it's in print ya know. It's black and white, binary if you will.
One such as yourself has zero authority to answer that question, no offense. Nothing wrong with that, were all free souls, well, some of us are free animals, think what you will.
Fun Fact: my birth name means God's Precious and Graceful Servant of Judgement. Isn't that amazing that I would be unintentionally named something so telling and only discovered after my parents had passed for they knew not. How wonderful, how thoughtful, how kind of my Lord to give me comfort and show compassion for my heavy and lonely heart to reveal His love for me in my very name. Amazing!
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
there you go again, acting as if you had the inside scoop. please, nothing about your religious views are important and only less so is your fictitious 'name'
there is no god, god doesn't exist, get over it and move forward.
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Robin Anne Hannon
So let me get this straight. This is the Lamb of God who shed his blood for the remission of sins, but he's too woke? He's too tolerant? He's too weak? So how many of us would allow ourselves to be crucified for the dregs of the earth? How many of us would love the unlovable and bring atonement, healing, and peace? How is any of this weak? This is what happens when you allow authoritarianism to flourish. Strength is cruelty, lack of compassion is equated with power and strength, denying basic human rights is a "culture war", and advocating violence to overthrow basic principles and freedoms is advocated. It is also what happens when you take scripture out of context without understanding the basics. It reminds me of an old joke that considering what is going on is prophetic in its inanity. It goes like this, "Judas went and hung himself. Go ye and do likewise." Two scriptures never meant to be put together. We have become ignorant scripturally. I see constant examples of scripture being used in ways it was never intended. I am offended and appalled at the lack of logic, and of the fact that people accept this nonsense. Wake up! We are not sheeple to be led astray, we are people of God.
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Sherrell K Zitting
Well put SOJ. Forget RDF. Intelligence begins with faith, as the faith of a child.
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Minister Butterworth
Soj
Your words are clear and concise. Very well written and easy to understand which is great considering some of those who will read it. We must continue to spread the word of God to all we can. So says Jesus in matt 10:32-33. Thank you,
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Timothy Newell
What's weak is not following the precepts of Jesus and going with the flow of the ungodly.
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Lionheart
Who knows what his precepts really were….if there were any?
🦁❤️
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Stephen P Singleton
I grew up in an Irish Catholic neighborhood in San Francisco where the history of Spain started with Ferdinand and Isabella. Can’t recall how we glossed over the Inquisition, but my lifelong interest in history was certainly initiated there. Even as a kid, I found it truly amazing that the actual teachings of Jesus were still as shocking to the belligerent today as they were 2000 years ago. The idea that we are to actually be NICE to people continues to be nothing short of revolutionary. It’s why, after decades studying, following; loving the teachings of Zen, Vedanta, the Baghavad Gita, I’ve come full circle (maybe via Paramahansa Yogananda) to the actual teachings of Jesus. And, yeah, it’s pretty different than anything one hears from the so-called “Conservative” Christian evangelicals. I don’t think Jesus was conservative. He was a Radical Leftist then and He still is. Peace. And Love. To All.
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Timothy C Stone
" A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." John 13:34 This is Christianity distilled. "Whoever wants to become first among you must serve the rest of you like a slave. In the same way, the Son of Man did not come to be served. He came to serve others and to give his life as a ransom for many people.” Matt. 20:26, 28. If you do not agree, you are not a Christian. Plain and simple.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Teaching of Jesus to that ,are young people want nothing to do with Jesus. Deuteronomy 23:1-3 1 “If a man’s testicles are crushed or his penis is cut off, he may not be admitted to the assembly of the LORD . 2 “If a person is illegitimate by birth, neither he nor his descendants for ten generations may be admitted to the assembly of the LORD . 3 “No Ammonite or Moabite or any of their descendants for ten generations may be admitted to the assembly of the LORD .
You need to ask the girl if anyone 10 generations before her were illegitimate she would get into heaven. So why is she reading the Bible if she’ll never get into heaven?
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Billy Heckstall
The whole mistake in this so-called debate, is that every person’s comment supposes that Jesus’ quotes were meant for everyone. Whether he said the words or was quoted. His teachings were not meant to unify a thing called Christianity. But, were primarily meant to unify those of his people, and anyone that chose to join them. The words, “ by this shall they know you” gives light to all of his teachings. If you truly rendered on to Cesar that which belongs to Cesarean
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Sherrell K Zitting
THE POLARITIES OF GOD'S LAW
PART 2
YOU SAY: To Moore, the core values of Christianity are at stake. And his concerns raise some interesting questions.
Is a Christian a Christian if they are rejecting the core teachings of Jesus?
Is it "soft" to love thy neighbor?
How Did We Get Here? .
ANSWER: The core values of love and forgiveness etc are simply not the focus of those working Boaz, the negative forces or electrons of the left column of Creation. Others work Jachin, the positive forces or protons of the right column of Creation. But it is all one complete tree or system of life, the Tree of Life, all forces necessary unto perfection or becoming like the God's, as gods.
YOU SAY: Moore can point out a few culprits he believes responsible. For one, the current political climate. Thanks to increased polarization, he speculates that adhering to religious teachings has taken a backseat to scoring political points.
ANSWER: The left is a compliment or polarity for the right, and visa-versa. The Biblical religious teachings, or Tree of Life, consist of both sides, until the two come to an equilibrium, which is the center column of Creation that produces a live rapture into Heaven, as neutral neutrons. Electrons, Protons, and Neutrons of the cosmos: These are the perfected and complete elements that make an Adam, and an atom.
YOU SAY: However, Moore says a larger factor is our collective loss of community. “I think that the roots of the political problem really come down to disconnection, loneliness, sense of alienation,” he suggests. “Even in churches that are still healthy and functioning, regular churchgoing is not what it was a generation ago, in which the entire structure of the week was defined by the community.”
ANSWER: Loss? The wise count all earthly gain as dross. God is even in collective global loss of community, to chasten and center man's conscience on heavenly, spiritual, eternal things, gifts, and talents. Then there is a great reconnection with like minds, and all souls find their true community, according to their level of development and degree of glory, some as dim stars, some as bright as the moon, and some as glorious as the blazing Sun. It is all Biblical, for the development of souls, from generation to generation.
YOU SAY: What do you think? Are the tolerant teachings of Christ outdated? Or is this antagonistic rebrand of Christianity a misguided approach?"
ANSWER: The tolerant teachings are the right side and the complimentary polarity of the strict teachings of the left side, both of which have always existed, and are now, and endure forever. For does not the Lord also say: "I cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance" (Habb.1:13; DC1...). But the right tolerant side Jachin works to bring mankind gently to that perfection of the Gods. God is over it all, both sides, and even Satan is a servant of the Lord (Job 2:1).
Blessings to all. Man is as God once was, and God is as man may become.
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Sherrell K Zitting
THE POLARITIES OF GOD'S LAW
PART 1
YOU ASK: Is Jesus Christ too soft for today's problems? Are the teachings of Jesus Christ “liberal talking points”? Is His philosophy of love and forgiveness “weak”? Christianity is experiencing a crisis of identity that directly challenges some of the most central teachings in the Bible.
Will the biblical path of love and acceptance win out, or is a more pugnacious approach to religion on the rise?
Is Turning the Other Cheek "Weak?" .
ANSWER Well, turning the butt-cheek is certainly weak. The loving chastisement of a loving Father is never quarrelsome or pugnacious. Whom the Lord loveth, He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom He receiveth. If you (as being mature and intelligent) endure chastening, God dealeth with you as sons, for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
This is His philosophy, His love, and His forgiveness unto life eternal, upon our repentance or acceptance of His corrections, making us the sons and daughters of the King, and therefore princes and princesses (the genuine nobility). But if you are without chastisement, then you are bastards and not sons (or daughters): Heb. 12:6-8. Therein is the crisis of identity, the weak and young and pugnacious spirits of the world challenging the central teachings of God that will eventually make them like God.
YOU SAY: Is Turning the Other Cheek "Weak?" In an interview with NPR, Russell Moore, the former head of the Southern Baptist Convention and current editor-in-chief of Christianity Today, says that he fears the tense political landscape has changed Christianity.
ANSWER: The tense polititical landscape is the anti-Christ. So it is a simple choice, but the natural stage of development of every soul will dictate what they will choose.
YOU SAY that Moore says he finds that many Christians now view values like mercy, love, and forgiveness as "weak" and that many Christians seem to be in search of a more hard line version of their faith.
"Multiple pastors tell me, essentially, the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount, parenthetically, in their preaching—'turn the other cheek'—[and] to have someone come up after to say, 'Where did you get those liberal talking points?'" he explains. .
ANSWER: "The liberal soul shall be made fat" (or rich): Prov. 11:25. Mercy, love, and forgiveness are only part of the Gospel of Christ, Jachin of the Tree of Life. Judgment, justice, and the clarity and strictness of God's law is the other part, or the complimentary polarity of love, Boaz of the Tree of Life.
YOU SAY: "When the pastor would say, 'I'm literally quoting Jesus Christ' ... The response would be, 'Yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak," he continued. "When we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we're in a crisis."
ANSWER: Again, Jesus Christ can be quoted on both sides of the Gospel and Tree of Life, on both mercy and on judgment. It is a complete system or road map to Heaven, 10 steps of Jacob's ladder (Gen. 28:12).
YOU SAY: Moore appears to be referring to a new crop of evangelical leaders who take the fight directly to their perceived enemies over culture war issues. For example, fire-and-brimstone style pastors who burn books they don’t like have gained larger followings in recent years.
ANSWER: God is in it all, both sides (Is. 45:7), to give His mortal children experiences on both sides of the Tree of Life (Gen. 2:9). Those evangelicals are working the left side of the Tree and the brain and the cosmos, for the Lord, for "God is the doer of all things (Is. 45:7).
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Alun Lloyd Palmer
I am an atheist and a ULC minister. I believe that Jesus was a mortal man who taught people to love oneanother. Even, or perhaps especially, from my perspective, I find the idea of anti-Jesus Christians to be laughable. Or perhaps I should say it would be funny if the consequences weren't so dire.
A Christian man that I know online often talks about people who he calls 'Paulians', who follow the teachings of Paul and not those of Jesus.They don't seem too dissimilar from the evangelicals described here.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Yes they are too weak which is why no one follows them or care about them anymore.
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Tareq Asfour
The problem is American Christianity is different than Middle Eastern Christianity back home. We do not have all the extra changes America has. There is a lot of God’s law has been removed in America and this is why you see a lot of problems happening.
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Catherine
Do you think that began with Henry VIII (usurper of God) and King James I (KJV bible), considering how what they did was carried to North America?
Many decades ago, I was taught Pilgrims and other people came to America seeking relief from tyranical religious leaders. However, after delving into genealogy and discovering a long trail of tyranical religious leaders in the family tree on maternal and paternal sides, tyranical leadership seemed only to have changed names and faces - not countries.
Perhaps the world is becoming too small a place for so many tyrants?
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ServantOfJudgement
Tareq,
Do you mean Christian Churches have removed God's law from their teaching or do you mean the USA as a country has removed God's law from our culture?
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Tareq Asfour
Both of them, American Christians churches have removed Gods Law which are the commandments and Yes USA as a country has removed God’s laws entirely from our culture, which is the balance between good deeds and evil deeds to live by. As an example, Its our responsibility jobs to protect the poorest, the homeless, the orphans, the elderly, the disabled, the widows not the government. Look at how many so-called businesses churches making money off the church(the people) selling religion ripping them off by weekly tithing abuses to them this really blasphemous. The real tithing is annual accumulation of one’s wealth to pay 1/tenth to charity not pastors to get paid as like a job making millions like those in 700 club, J Olsteen , catholic etc… Where is the commandments of punishment of those clergy who violated the innocents ? Just a slap on the wrist ? No there is so many things we need to talk about together hopefully we can make zoom meeting and talk about this much more
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Rev Mark D
Tareq, a man who makes sense...Osteen is the most obscene of the billionaire pastors, taking money that's already been taxed and paying no taxes on it because the government that has made his business tax free has been itself bought by those very churches...way past that character who was on Miami Vice. We can read about all those in government and Osteen et.al in the Marques de Sade's little book.
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Robert Edward Szekely
The hypocrites reveal their true colors once again!
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
1) a xtian is someone who follows the teaching of jesús
2) not following the teachings of jesús...not a xtian
3) xtianity too soft and liberal, need more angry, more violent...join new religion, REPUBLICANISM. all the anger of xtian god but with 2/3s less compassion. REPUBLICANISM...kill more, love less, god is death
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ServantOfJudgement
Jj 1 is correct. 2 is incorrect. 3 is incorrect.
It is impossible for a flawed creature to be flawless.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Tell that to everybody you said is going to hell.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
so you agree that 1) someone that follows the teaching of jesús is a x tian but you disagree that 2) someone that doesn't follow the teachings of jesús is not a x tian? cognitive dissonance much?
jesús = xrist = xtianity = xrist = jesús
I don't follow jesús = xrist =xtianity but I'm a xtian makes as much sense as saying I don't eat meat but I'm not a vegan...WTF are you then"
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ServantOfJudgement
JJ
Let's use your own personal standard that you measure yourself against. Why do you violate your own principles from time to time? Surely you're not suggesting you aren't you are you?
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
I don't follow jebus and I'm not a xtian but my argument stands, don't follow jebus then not a xtian. Not sure what your nonsense of flawless has to do with anything. Clearly one can be a xtian and be flawed, dear Dog that's true of every xtian. But being a xtian and NOT following jebus...dude your logic is a flawed as your religion
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Rev Mark D
JJ, what is "jebus"?
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
The retarded brother of Jesus? Or maybe JJ has a keyboard lisp you shouldn’t tease about? OR maybe it is like using ‘xtian’, just a reminder to all reading that the author has some degree of disdain for individuals that believe in Bronze Age superstitions,
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He Who Breathes
Hah! - Jesus's teachings were bastardised almost right from the start by Paul (who was a Roman plant).
The religion that Christians are following now bears minimal resemblance to the way Jesus lived, what he did, and what he taught.
Sad, because it would have been really good - But, it didn't turn out that way.
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Sherrell K Zitting
The Bible is true in its current form.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
The bible is a result of Bronze Age nomadic desert goat herders thinking that they could explain the origin of the universe AND biogenesis while not even being able to explain where the sun went at night. Their god is no more real than Zeus for the Greeks, Shiva for the Indians or Nana Buluku of some African tribe.
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ServantOfJudgement
Z
Just to keep the record square, Moses was one of the most educated humans to exist at the time. Indeed, he was trained to lead a nation in all ways, economically, socially, militarily and spiritually. The Egyptian possessed advanced mathematics which found its way into the bible. I read somewhere they knew the distance for earth to the sun along with the other planets. Again, this advanced knowledge was incorporated into the bible.
Moses knew 4000 years ago what science knows today and our graduates from college do not know. An ancient goat herder that knew more than our average graduate today should alarm any thinking person.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
First, Moses being ‘ was one of the most educated humans to exist at the time’ makes me laugh. Similar to ‘the most sane individual in a hospital for the criminally insane’. It just ain’t no badge of honor to be the smartest goat herder wandering in the desert.
Math ‘found it’s way into the bible’? Show me, bud. Where can I find that. Sure, they could count goats.
The first decent estimates of the distance to the sun were made in the 17th century, thousands of years after Moses. If he got any info from the Egyptians, and he was as smart as you say, he would have taken their advice with a grain of salt. They thought Venus was two different objects. The Greeks, almost 2000 years after Moses, called the planets ‘wandering stars’ so even then people were pretty much clueless. As even SOME PEOPLE can be shown to be still.
Moses didn’t know squat all of what science knows today. That’s one of the most ridiculous statements I have heard spill out of the mouth of a religiously delusional individual to date.
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ServantOfJudgement
Z
I appreciate you not immediately denying Moses even existed. An oversight I'm sure but I'll take it.
Did you just say the civilization that perfectly built the largest and longest standing structures known to man that we can't reproduce today was filled with primitive idiots? That's weird.
All of our science today is stacked upon yesterdays discovery. That includes the primitive pyramid builders that somehow outsmarted today's ego kings and eggheads. Don't pat yourself too hard, you're riding on yester-year's coat tail. It's not your prize to claim and not your credit to take. Not mine either for if it all goes away today, we could not build it tomorrow.
The cleanliness found in a doctor's office today could be found in the average Israelites home 3000 years ago. Why did they stay so clean? Why did they not eat foods that contain heavy metals? The FDA just figured that out last century. Why did they not eat foods that contain pathogens (very tiny things that make you sick)? Why? Why did a primitive people already commit to behavior modern medical science demands of us today? Why? Were they so dumb that they were smart?
I must confess, I count myself lucky to be included in the class goat herders, even if egghead's with thick black framed glasses can't comprehend us. Did you know I learn more about people by watching goats than any other way? Jesus was right about us humans. Some are like goats, some are like sheep while others are like wolves. You Dr Z would be considered a goat. You're very, um, itchy. Clever and itchy. That's a goat.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
In inquired as to specifics regarding how ‘math found its way into the bible’. Rather than back up such a claim, you counter by saying houses 3000 years ago were as clean as a modern doctors office. Now you two outrageous claims to back up.Go ahead and add ‘not eating foods with heavy metals’ and specify said foods and why you think those foods weren’t eaten due to heavy metals.
Your comments are just nonsense, half-baked ideas that you toss out hoping to shore up your over-inflated opinion of the ignorant, desert-dwelling morons that made up your god. You try to paint Moses as an intelligent man because he and his fellow dolts were enslaved by a superior culture. Make stuff up, toss it out as fact, get called on the idiocy of your statements, drop the subject and move on to more outrageous claims.
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ServantOfJudgement
Oh no Z. I'm no bible passage quoter, you've got the wrong guy. I will not quote Bible verses to those who really don't want to know it. I'm not pushy or preachy. I talk Jesus here because people talk Jesus here. You talk Jesus here, prolly more than me. That's a sign of pure hate and loathing or love. After all, is that not every atheists wish? A Christian that doesn't school them in the bible junk all day long? If you want to see the ground breaking(at the time though I believe it came from Egypt via Moses) math theory in the Bible, study it yourself. Or call me a blind fanatic, don't care.
There are tons of do's and don'ts in the bible that humans could never have known the 'why' untill science was able to find why thousands of years later then recommend the same, lol.
Either accept what I say about it, study with belief yourself or completely disregard the document. If you just read it to read it, it won't take, sorry. Any way you slice it, I don't care.
PS... Stay away from catfish, so says God and the egghead with a pocket protector.
Double Down PS... I may have overstepped on my claim Israelites homes were as clean as a doctors office. They were probably cleaner than the doctors office. A fella can get mighty sick with several ailments just from going to the hospital once. Good catch.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
What is your justification for ‘doubling down’ on your opinion that homes were cleaner than a modern doctor office? Going to see a doctor exposes you to sick patients and has nothing to do with the cleanliness of the office.
Homes about 5000 years ago were cleaner than a modern doctor’s office? I think you are trying to do what you claim god wants people to do…. ’have the nativity of a child’.
You’re a hoot.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
I inquired as to specifics regarding how ‘math found its way into the bible’. Rather than back up such a claim, you counter by saying houses 3000 years ago were as clean as a modern doctors office. ???? Now you two outrageous claims to back up.Go ahead and add ‘not eating foods with heavy metals’ and specify said foods and why you think those foods weren’t eaten due to heavy metals.
Your comments are just nonsense, half-baked ideas that you toss out hoping to shore up your over-inflated opinion of the ignorant, desert-dwelling morons that made up your god. You try to paint Moses as an intelligent man because he and his fellow dolts were enslaved by a superior culture. Make stuff up, toss it out as fact, get called on the idiocy of your statements, drop the subject and move on to more outrageous claims.
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ServantOfJudgement
Dr Z
I have to be careful with you because you're powerful vicious against me in all ways. Im not trying to frustrate you.
The bible does not give a reason why to not eat certain fish or foods we now know contain heavy metals or other nasties. That is my point. Nobody knew why, they could not know why. They didn't have the instrumentation or the even the thought that metals could dissolve and cause serious health issues. Can you see that the document was written from a perspective that knew what it's authors did not nor could ever have known? You've got to see that and it's not unique to their dietary laws. Doesn't that peak your curiosity at all? If it's all fake(which it could be) it's the best mutha trucking fake I've ever seen because it comes with facts the authors could never have known.
The ancient Israelites used and documented the use of Pi. It was documented in the most bizarrely coincidental way as well. Kings 7/23 is where it's documented. I'm sure it's a coincidence that 23/7 works for pi at a basic level so I don't get too excited about where it's at, just an odd note worthy coincidence that pi is documented in a chapter and verse that produces pi when divided.
The Egyptians and Babylonians used Pi for thousands of years before the West picked it up. The Israelites probably picked it up from Egypt where they used it as slaves or Moses brought it with him. While that's not miraculous by any stretch it merely demonstrates to the unbiased observer that the Israelites we're using mathematics which were cutting edge at the time even if it's easy as Pi for us these days.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Sorry, but I have given up responding to posts that narrow down like this.
If you care to copy/paste your(once again) warped versions of reality into a new comment, comment here to inform me that you have done so, I will scroll through the posts and leave some concrete FACTS about your nonsense.
Now, excuse me while I change the lure on my rod.
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Donald Richard Starns
Prove that “Moses” was a real person. You can’t.
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ServantOfJudgement
Donald,
Would it matter if I did? No it wouldn't. You'd lay down that sword only to pick up another without Moses' name tag on it. This is the good part, you'll love it. I know it wouldn't matter because Jesus said it wouldn't matter to you and you know I'm right.
How cool is that!!?
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
But you didn’t prove it, did you? And you can’t because there is no historical evidence for the existence of Moses. No old man carry heavy stone tablets down a mountain, no historical evidence for parting of the Red Sea (though strong winds do apparently drastically affect the water level of the Reed Sea, no wandering in the desert.
Your whine about the ‘Why would it matter if I did?’ seems akin to the sour grapes fable. Do you also believe that a fox and reason and talk?
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Joy
The Bible was stripped and converted in the 4th century to better control the followers. The Bible in its current form has also been rewritten by MEN leading the church that became the Catholic one, and which controlled everything, including Kings of the time. It is no where close to what it was originally, with entire sections burned and destroyed on purpose. Thankfully we have some of them recovered from the finds at Nag Hammadi. And before that the Gospel of Mary Magdelene, which has noticeable pages missing and was buried almost 1500 years ago or so because it threatened the very control MEN were looking for. Nothing in the present day Christian church is what it was. It is all about control and money.
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Amber Fry
Oh it was done again somewhere in the tenth century as well. Lets not forget King James also had a hand at it in the 1500s.Most bibles the US use are derived from those changes and really do not resemble what was original.
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Joy
Oh so true! When you link it all together, it is nothing of what it once was.
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Fr. Matthew Arælius
Joy, you're absolutely correct. The bible (from the Greek 'biblios', meaning 'book', or storybook. Alternatively, ta biblia, meaning the books) has been rewritten and re-edited over a hundred times. No one, etymologically, can accurately trace the true words introduced into the first bible. It's not possible.
Spirituality is introspective. It deals with one's personal journey through this life and the universe as a whole. Religion is supposed to be a parametrical system by which we can practice the exploration of our spirituality, effectively redrawing religion itself as introspective. It has no room for opinion, only personal observation and revelation.
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Rev Mark D
Well Joy, considering all the oxybenzones in our system, we won't be troubled with having MEN much longer.
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Susan Colmenares
No it is not! It has been translated and retranslated so many times. The one thing we can all be sure of is that Jesus, and Buddha, and Mohammed, and Bahaula all taught the Golden Rule. Maybe we should limit our teaching to that.
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Douglas Stephen Saldivar
Yes, Susan, you are a wise woman. It is indeed as simple as "the golden rule". But we silly apes want to make everything as complicated as we can. Religion, priests, hierarchies, dogma, heretics, sects, we don't need all that, all we need is a simple rule. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." So simple......
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Rev Mark D
"Jesus?" Susan, who was that? I think as a whole we'd have to say "we never knew him."
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Susan Colmenares
True!
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Minister Butterworth
Sherrell k. Z. You are absolutely right. The Bible is correct. This is the book written to show US ALL the path to salvation. Those who took part in the writing of the Bible were inspired by God to do so. God had a message to deliver and he put it on the hearts and minds of those chosen to write the books of the Bible. God is omnipotent. Does anyone really believe that anyone could sabotage Gods plan? Put spys and Sabatours in his ranks without him knowing? Ain't happening. He wants us to love him and choose him above all others and would not allow our instructions to be corrupted. The Bible is not the issue anyway. The problems everyone keeps heaping on Christians and Christianity are brought on by a MAJOR lack of faith. We must keep our faith strong. Love, forgiveness, mercy, and kindness are NOT the problem. How can anyone really believe that. To love thy neighbor isn't soft. Its not. Being kind and showing mercy shows great strength. Instead of Complaining about everything and looking for issues to get mixed up in or create, some people should try to be a kind, caring person, even for one hr a day. Oh...what a world we could be a part of. matt 7:13-14. Many many persons are happily heading to Perdition laughing all the way...clueless...sad. To all who embrace Jesus Christ and his word, hold fast your faith and trust in the Lord. Stay on the path of righteousness and spread the word to all your able to reach. God bless you all.
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Rev Mark D
Sorry, Mr. Butterworth, God is not omnipotent. God can't make US do anything.
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Minister Butterworth
Mark d. My response is at the bottom of these posts. Sry for any inconvenience.
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Rev Mark D
Thank you.
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ServantOfJudgement
What?
I'm reading and studying the new testament for my first time. So far all of Paul's statements are perfectly aligned with the old testament. I have found zero deviation. My advice is to start back in Genesis and don't skim.-
Joy
Because it was rewritten to fit their narrative. Look up Nag Hammadi and the Gnostic Gospels. Why do you think the collective masses have been told they are not the real "Bible"?
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Larry Mager
Jesus not only taught to turn the other cheek but lived and died by it. These so-called "Evangelicals" have forgotten that. Jesus said "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do!". In my opinion ( not that it matters) these are NOT Christians!
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
I’m personally atheist but was raised Presbyterian. The evangelicals might best be called christian nationalists. Sadly, they give the real, genuine, true, loving, compassionate Christians a bad name.
It’s disgusting what they are attempting to do to our public schools, our school boards, our libraries, and to our LGBTQIA2S+ Community.
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Sherrell K Zitting
Elizabeth
Who are the LGBTQIA2SCZPDMYF+
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
L lesbian G gay B bisexual T transgender Q queer or questioning I intersex A asexual 2S two spirit + plus any others not yet included in the LGBTQIA2S+ above.
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ServantOfJudgement
I've got 68 genders to brush up on for work. I wonder why they didn't make 69 genders, they were so close!
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Lionheart
How do you know that’s what he actually said, if taught…….that is, if he really existed.
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Sherrell K Zitting
Leonheart,
He has witnesses, then and now, and testimonies, and lionhearts, and daily events that He manifests to the understanding of the faith, they who are His to save.
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Lionheart
Who were those witnesses, Sherrell? All we have are writing of historians, who never met him, years after the death of Jesus.
Historians that did possibly meet him, or who were alive during his timeline, never wrote about him and his supposed miracles. Wouldn’t you have thought that if the stories really were true, historians of the day would have been glorifying them all.
What daily events are you assigning to him of “manifestations”? I hope you’re not going to say the fallacy of “near death experiences (NDE)”, which are the same experiences others say they have had of seeing Allah, Mohammed, and I’ve even heard of Mormons saying they saw Joseph Smith during their NDE. It’s amazing what the brain can do when it’s slowly being starved of oxygen as it nearly dies.
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Nicholas J Page
Lionheart.I attended a church group here in England and there is proof Jesus existed when the science team went to the cave and unsealed the rock placed in front.Jesus had gone But left his robes behind how do you explain that
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
One, this is garbage. Two, Jesus walked around in the buff?
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Lionheart
Are you asking me how do I explain how stories get created by historians who never meet, or met, the person, or people, they wrote about?
I’m sure misinformation was as rife back then as it is today. Possibly even more so, being as they totally had to rely on word of mouth and not newsprint, or TV.
I’ve heard Elvis never really died. Does that mean he’s still alive? Are the Hunter Biden laptop stories real? Did Epstein really commit suicide? Was Jesus stripped of his robe by the Romans, as written about in the Bible, only to somehow miraculously leave one behind in an empty tomb? Did the Romans fear Christians might desecrate the tomb after the crucifixion, so did they remove the body?
I know which stories and tales I would like to “believe” if I was a Christian, and they would be the ones that I would propagate, and pass on, to my progenitors, because I would want them to believe them as well, with the intent of trying to convince them they were true.
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Daniel Todd Kamm
Not that we don't have our own wacko's... there are plenty! Peace Out tk
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Daniel Todd Kamm
Glad I'm Jewish!
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Colleen McAllister
It is a sad commentary on our society when we turn on our own gods. To reject the teachings of Jesus is to reject God himself. No real Christian would do that.
What is next? Will Muslims say that Allah is wrong and that Mohammed should be ignored? Jews should not follow the Law because it is too hard? That the 10 Commanments are multiple choice?
Sorry. If you accept and follow a god then you follow the teachings right or wrong. We can't pick and choose.
Many religions are based on peace. Christianity in its pure form is one of those. I am an Evangelical Christian myself I am sickened by what I hear coming out of self-called Christians mouths.
Jesus is not weak in his standards but strong enough to have actually lived by them. All Christians would be wise to do so.
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Tareq Asfour
actually, there is no separate 3 different religions its all one Muslims follow the old Jewish law as its been taught with different religious schools but, no changes, Im heart broken many can’t see it thinking there is 3 different religions. which there isn’t as for christianity being adopted by Emperor Constantine Of Rome converting himself into 1st Pope using Saul Of Tarsus/St Pauls Pharisees writings, then later historians changed it into Peter being but we all know. Im actually a minister known in Middle East too
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Finally someone says the quiet part out loud. The religious have always had their radical element that used religion as a thinly veiled excuse to control other people, but before they had to 'interpret' what the bible 'really says'. Finally someone has the guts to look Jesus in the eye and say, "You aren't supporting my fascist agenda."
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Rev Mark D
Not just the Bible... The entire book of Mormon is totally made up out of periodically convenient "revelations" and "dreams" and even pieces of paper that somehow nobody could ever possibly view or witness or examine but the "prophet" (or was that profit)... Or a special language that only the profit could see or hear or interpret...South Park pretty much nailed it (they also nailed the Catholic church and the Scientologists in other episodes).
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ServantOfJudgement
D
Yep, the Mormon has found a way to squeeze a man between God and the individual. You said it. Before the book of Mormon was written, the Holy Bible warned Joseph Smith not to do what he did. That's on him along with the millions of souls he mislead. Catholics have the same problem, there's a man between the individual and God. That's a sore day for the pope when he gets covered with dirt.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
So tell us all SOJ - where do you fit in?
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Rev Mark D
"Stand aside jesus, this job takes a real man to handle."
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Catherine
In deed! Hasn't that been the attitude of religious leadership all along? Religious leaders drop Jesus' name - or that of a similar figure - then twist and bend him like a Gumby doll. Since Henry VIII raised the bar, we've seen about everything between.
I think Jesus' teachings don't suit the people saying his teachings are weak. Forget the 10 commandments, and all the wisdoms that can be used as a guide to live a peaceful life.
There are 8+ billion people in the world now. How do we break them up into smaller, more manageable groups?
We need violence and chaos and division!
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Fear not - Fox News is working tirelessly to do their part!
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ServantOfJudgement
You know a news organization is corrupted, bought and paid for when they report a city on fire as a peaceful protest. I think that was the other FOX network though. Can you blame them? Really? It's a scientific fact that campfires bring calm and peace. I'd think the peaceful protesters would be happy with one hardware store and two or three gas stations burning to the ground but I guess they're more peaceful than I thought they were. Those guys are FOX news fans huh? Yikes, stay away from FOX news guys!
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James Riggle-Johnson
Those things (which were wrong) happened when the peaceful protests, Kaepernick taking a knee, were met with vile, disgusting rhetoric from the president. That is why people think Jesus is too week, woke, liberal for the masses. Also, J6 was not a protest. It was an attempted coup on the rightful government because the majority rejected a madman. Sorry, Servant but righteous indignation is not the way.
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Rev Mark D
It's a coup attempt that is not over either.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Funny that incident sticks in your mind.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/fox-news-alters-protest-images-video-again-1014675/
https://www.npr.org/2021/11/21/1052837157/fox-resignations-tucker-carlson-patriot-purge-documentary
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ServantOfJudgement
Thanks for the links Kenneth. I never go to fox website so I wouldn't know about altered images. I was watching CNN in a hotel when I saw the guy say the protests are fiery but peaceful. My thoughts went to a campfire. There was no campfire in the backdrop of the reporter, just burning stuff, don't remember what anymore. The absurdity was rich and the blind protection of violence was disgusting.
The socalled autonomous zone stands to be the most successful insurrection in USA history. They did it right when they seized government buildings and terrorized their new citizens.
I listen to NPR most days for a few mins on my way to work. It's a breathtakingly effective government mouthpiece. I didn't check that link, sorry, I already know it's flavor.
If fox altered images(which I don't doubt) I'm glad they were caught. Its unfortunate that every single main stream media outlet does the same thing. They all earn a living by deceiving their viewers. It's easy to see the feverish loyalty to this political party or that of these Media outlets. Pick a side, it doesn't matter. If a news organization protects a political party or politician, it's not trustworthy for unbiased news we citizens deserve and expect.
Shame on them all.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
My goodness SOJ - look at you! Ignoring the like-minded. Listening to the enemy. Criticizing the "Main stream". So presciently aware of everybody's postion. Is there a 'Woke conservative'? You may well be a trailblazer.
Tell me though - just curious - do you know what they were protesting in Portland? Extra points if you do! Also, extra points if you can show their 'insurrection' changed anything.
Shame on you if you don't - and shame on us all if you can't.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Comment removed by user.
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Rev Mark D
He did make a lot of mistakes didn't he. But nobody's perfect. I'm sure evangelicals are better at going about "his father's business."
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Rev Mark D
Too weak? Well, it's not like he was God or anything.
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Lionheart
Was Jesus real then?
How do we know for sure?
If he was real, who knows what he ever really taught? Those who wrote about what he was supposed to have said, never met him. 🤔
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Sherrell K Zitting
The writers of the New Testament knew Jesus.
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Susan Colmenares
No, they didn’t. The New Testament was written years after Jesus died.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Not only that but the stories were passed along orally during a time when adherents were being actively persecuted. Stress leads to errors, perhaps to embellishment.
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Lionheart
Who do you think those writers of the NT were that new Jesus?
As far as I’m aware, all the historians that wrote about Jesus were not contemporary to the time Jesus was supposed to have lived. None of the contemporary historians at the time of Jesus ever wrote about him. Don’t you find that odd?
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Amber Fry
Actually the first few books, possibly. After that its been debated as many of the later books were written as many as a few hundred years or more later.
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Lionheart
No, we actually don’t know who wrote the books that say “According to Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John”.
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Susan Colmenares
Absolutely true!
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Rev Mark D
Lionheart, it doesn't matter if Jesus was real or not. His message is what matters.
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Lionheart
I actually love many of the messages from Dumbledore in other works of fiction.
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Rev Mark D
Ok, that too. A good message is where you find it.
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ServantOfJudgement
That question is irrelevant for this topic as you know. The only thing that's relevant is this: Is the document being repeated accurately? Consider: Serious Black is a woman that fathered Harry potter while he was headmaster of Hogwarts. If you disagree with me, you're a great big hater and double down meanie.
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Minister Butterworth
The lil details are not important. FAITH. So it was wrote a few hundred years later. It was still written. FAITH IN GOD. God had something to say and he put that message on the hearts of the persons to put into writing. What's really important is that we have that word now. Now we need to have the faith to live that word.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Yes - is the document being repeated accurately? That is the question. All one has to do is accept that the document is accurately repeated, and the rest follows.
The document is looked to for all things. How to be a good person. How to get into heaven. How to live justly. What is authority. What is God. How to please God.
Everything you know about yourself, about people, about God, is taken from the document. It says right in the document that God created the universe, and the universe is right in front of you, right in your face - but you reject the universe, instead deferring to the document, because the document says it is divine, and if that's 'repeated accurately' then you must reject what is right in your face and defer to the document like it tells you, so you do.
Sorry gays. Sorry trans. Sorry women's rights. Sorry science. Sorry logic and reason. The document says you worship God, but actually you worship the document, to which you defer in all things. And that's the rub - when you take your 'accurately repeated' document and decide everybody else needs to live by it too. You know the question, but you sure don't see the problem, and that's the issue.
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Joy
Is it any wonder Jesus said that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a “rich” man to go to heaven? This is why I left the crazy church. They have no clue anymore. And did they really ever have a clue after changing everything in First Council of Nicaea? They have been burning books since Jesus’ time. At least we have some recovered from Nag Hammadi.
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Amber Fry
The Eye Of The Needle was a narrow passageway into Jerusalem that merchants with fully packed camels or pulling larger carts couldn't get through. This was more about comparing big headed people to the packed camels and carts getting through to something real.
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Joy
Oh it for sure was. Jesus spoke in parables for a reason. Most had big heads and couldn't understand.
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Rev. MichaelRS
Liberals cherry pick and betafy some of the teachings of Christ as a shield to now cover and excuse what for hundreds or thousands of years was commonly understood to be aberrant or sinful behavior.
However Jesus was not the weak person that his matter of fact teaching style (based on the plane reading of the scriptures as any YouTube videos of him actually delivering a sermon or lesson seem to have been deleted) might lead one to believe.
And speaking of "believe", that was the core of his message; Believe and as you believe repent and turn away from sin. And what was sin, according to the scriptures, did not change or go away with the coming of Jesus or his sacrifice.
Lastly I would point out although his primary weapon was words, which he used to cut people down to size, he could be a physical badass if if he needed to be.
One can debate the amount of force Jesus used to expel the merchants and money changers from the temple, particularly since only John mentioned that he used a improvised whip to do so, but the details are not important.
The bottom line is there were many more of them than there were of him and they did not go willingly or quietly.
So while the carrot was Jesus' preferred method, he obviously had no problem with the stick if it came to it
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
"Knock knock."
"Who's there?"
"It's Jesus. Let me in."
"Why?"
"So I can save you."
"From what?"
"From what I'm going to do to you if you don't let me in."
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ServantOfJudgement
That's an oldie but goodie Kenneth. I do chuckle when I read it even now. It's funny! Truly.
When a child is born in prison, it did nothing to arrive there, nothing to be locked up and it can do nothing to get out. Only by accepting the offer from the guy that's got the key to the door can that child be free. If the child refuses the offer, it has decided to accept the circumstances it's in and accept it's fate as-is.
Who are our parents? Adam and Eve of course.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
And what does the guy with the key demand in return? Thanks? Admiration? Fealty? Adulation? Devotion? Worship?
Remember - he's the guy with the key. That amounts to coercion. Compulsion. Intimidation. Enforcement. Duress.
Hell of a way to run a universe - which explains Adam and Eve's navels.
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Sherrell K Zitting
😂 Haha
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Alun Lloyd Palmer
As a liberal (and an atheist) I think there are different understandings as to whether or not Jesus was superceding the old convenant with a new covenant. I am not an expert theologist, but I have seen both PoVs put forward using different quotes from different gospels. I am fairly sure there are separate actual churches that take one view or the other.
Even when you leave that question aside, there is ample support to show that Jesus supported forgiving of sins and sinners. Equally, there is plenty to support the interpretation that Jesus was a liberal. That's what really upsets the 'Christian nationalists', who are no more Christian than I am. I support his views more than they do, but he is supposed to be their god? Mind you, when Pilate asked if he was even the son of God, he is said to have replied "You say that I am".
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ServantOfJudgement
It's interesting how liberals and conservatives make Jesus into their own image.
God has no political affiliation.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
The church is it's own political affiliation.
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Lionheart
Which god are you referring to, mankind has created so many?
If there really was one, how would you know what its political affiliation was?
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Rev. MichaelRS
Of course Jesus supports forgiveness of sin and sinners, but you left out one very important element that that support is contingent on; REPENTANCE.
And then not purposefully continuing on with the same immoral/sinful actitivty.
Now of course only God/Jesus can see into men's hearts and minds to determine how sincere they really are, but since we have God given intelligence we can determine from certain outward signs the likelihood of their sincerity.
For example imagine a group of Christians who say they love and follow God and Jesus who are carthy's and continue to engage in that thieving activity even after they profess Jesus as their savior.
Not only do they continue to engage in that type of activity but they then form a church where the pastor and most of the congregation are admitted, practicing car thieves. But they say, "This is how God made us. we just like to steal cars and we love Jesus both. However, because of the latter, we're good to go."
Is there any wonder that other Christians groups might look in on that and say, "No, I think you are a little bit off on how you're interpreting the scriptures and the extent of the love and forgiveness through Jesus that God will have. You need to fully repent before before God's forgiveness takes hold."
Because another thing that's clear through both the New and the Old Testament is while that God is a kind and loving God he's also very just and he does expect certain things, certain types of behavior, from those that say they believe in him and accept Jesus as their savior.
Absent those things, through your god-given intelligence, you can pretty much assume that the Holy Spirit is not with that person or that group of people. There may be another type of Spirit that is with them, but certainly not the Holy Spirit.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
So you have a single example of Jesus ‘getting physical’, which you say is mentioned in only one book of the bible, and that means Jesus was a physical badass? That ‘he had no problem with the stick if it came to it’? Do you fantasize about this when ‘praying’?
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Rev. MichaelRS
Well obviously you're understanding of judeo-christian scriptures is about as good as your understanding .of what I wrote.
The story of Jesus driving the merchants and such from the temple is in all four books of the synoptic Gospels. But it is only in John where the improvised whip is mentioned.
What I fantasize about when I pray is people repenting of their sinful ways.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
It’s not about fantasizing about SOMETHING when you pray. The act is an example of fantasizing itself.
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ServantOfJudgement
Z
Jesus=God who decimated Egypt, obliterated Babylon & scraped Tyre into the sea= badass You don't have to believe it or like it but yea, he is.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
The god of the old testament wasn’t ‘badass’, but acted more like psychotic girlfriend. When your white trash girkfriend threw your clothes out the window, set them on fire and then keyed your car and broke its windows was that badass? Nope, just crazy as an outhouse rat.
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ServantOfJudgement
Rev Michael,
I admire your perseverance, it inspires me.
Thank you.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
I chuckle at your naivety, it amuses me.
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ServantOfJudgement
Dr Z
I've read that Jesus wants us to have the nativity of a child. I'll take a compliment every chance I get, they're scarce these days, thanks.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Don’t know ‘what you’ve read’ about what Jesus wants ‘us’ to do, but I can tell you for certain that Jesus never said that. I can also tell you for certain that you should avoid using words you lack the ability to spell. I’m betting that you can’t even pronounce the intended word ‘naivete’. Do you have your own ‘church’ where you can show off your plastic badge of ordination or do you just dance in the spirit and speak in tongues while the actual pastor commands the demons to ‘Come OUT!!’ ?
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ServantOfJudgement
Dr Z
When you typo it's ok and justified. Remember when I jokingly called you out on it? When others typo you rail them. My Lord told me you would judge me in hypocrisy, which you have done and will continue to to. It's nice knowing what you'll to me do before you do it. You strengthen my faith this way, thank you.
I'd considered leaving my profession to be a preacher but I'm not very preachy so I don't think it'd pan out much. Jeazousa haza otha palanza foa me-ha.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
There’s a non trivial-difference between a typo and a misspelled word.
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ServantOfJudgement
I'll bet my dad could beat your dad in arm wrestling
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
That’s not funny. My dad doesn’t have any arms or legs. He fell in a pool when he was young and got the nickname ‘Bob’.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Because, there is no reliable, first person, primary evidence (of the type necessary, to be acceptable as evidence during a court trial) what, or what not, a mythological Jesus said, or didn’t say, is immaterial.
The supposed sayings, of Jesus, are akin to the sayings of Homer, the Buddha, and Grimm, suggestions passed down through the ages, without knowing precisely where they came from.
Memes — are the category where they belong.
God is love — is nothing more than meaningless dribble.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
"Nice soul you got there. It'd be a shame if anything were to 'happen to it'." ~Book of Capone, 3-12,13
There seems to be two warring factions in the world today - those who feel people should be able to make decisions for themselves, and those who feel they should make decisions for everybody else.
2000 years ago, somebody said "God is love", and the second faction has taken it and ran with it, but every time they say it its crystal clear that what they mean is "God is the boss, so you better suck up to him - and I represent him."
To Evangelical Christians 'Love' is a vain, abusive, authoritarian Daddy figure. They have NO IDEA what love is.
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Tecla Caryl Loup
Amen.
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Sherrell K Zitting
Oh, but God IS love. He so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, which is rife with meaning: YHVH, or Jehovah Christ, the same God speaking to Adam in the Garden of Eden. His very name and essence are so full of... meaning, that they encompass all of Creation. He is, after all, "The Creator, to wit:
Y: Spirit element, the initiation of creation, Azilut.
H. Primordial elements gathered from the flow of spirit element, to begin the coagulant astral formation of matter, Beriah.
V. Etherical elements to begin the manifestation of physical elements, Yetzirah.
H. The chemical elements, a full manifestation of physical matter, formed into their numerous forms of nature and their tissues and organs and systems, Assiyah.
IE, YHVH (Jehovah, Christ), being the Creator, His very name are the elements that flow down to encompass all of creation, which God (His Father) gave to mankind (His polygamist children) in the fulness of His love, that we and all of creation might exist in this mortal state, and then be redeemed by the sacrifice of His Son, again the sacrifice of the very elements that His name represents (YHVH), to make possible an eternal state.
Thus on the Cross, the sacrifice: "I commend my Spirit unto Thee", having first commended His body (H), His emotions (V), and His breath of life (H), and then His very Spirit (Y). There it is, YHVH (Jehovah) creation in reverse.
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Rev Mark D
Evangelicals have learned nothing since the day of the Tower of Babel, they're the same people who raised it, and for the same reason.
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John Komorowski
Comment removed by user.
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ServantOfJudgement
Jesus claims to be the maker of Homer, Buddha and Grimm along with the clothes they wore and the dirt they were covered up with. Jesus said words no living creature had ever heard and are so profound that even today in our "enlightened" state leaves most of us scratching our heads in disbelief.
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Sherrell K Zitting
Well put.
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Rev Mark D
Those words were so profound, yet so easy to understand. Of course man would not be interested.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
The fact that you believe in such a nonsensical belief system leaves me scratching my head. Thomas Jefferson felt much as I do.
“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. ... But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding.”
Jesus equal to Minerva. Yep, agree fully.
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Merlin
Dogma is about control. Many religions want to be the "Shepard of the sheep". Very similar to fascism. The generation of FEAR causes people to give up their money and freedom to groups who have the ability to convince those people that they are the answer. Never forget the Inquisition and the German Christian Church. Millions died for their beliefs.
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Brien
Ahhhh, evangelicals, the cornerstone of the zealot community. If I were a believer, these folks would be an embarrassment to my beliefs. But since I am not, my question to "christians" is simply why do you let these people speak for you? Are you truly that nuts??
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Rev Mark D
Brien I think one can be embarrassed for them even if one is not a believer.
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Amber Fry
Fact. I think even those outside the faith can reason they are not acting within the ideals of that chosen faith... and that is terribly embarrassing as a human being in general.
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Rev Mark D
Fact: I think they will get over your embarrassment. They might even have already done so.
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ServantOfJudgement
Brein,
How exactly would one prevent another from speaking in a country that guarantees one can speak as he pleases? After all, they're the ones with the microphone. If I tried to prevent it there's a fairly good chance I'd be standing in front of a judge before too long. On top of that, we're here in a backwater blog thas very little influence to the outside world. Wheels roll, stones grind and the sun trucks on. That's all.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Evangelicals obviously are only interested in sadism. This is the icing on the cake. It's time to ban this hate group.
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Rev Mark D
"Eyes Wide Shut," as it were.
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ServantOfJudgement
Good luck with that Matthew, they can't be banned or destroyed. God always keeps a remnant, always. He does this to weather the storm that psychopathic atheistic leaders often put believers through. (Like the one that's on the horizon) Once the lunatics are put down, a clear plowed fertile field is left for his own to flourish. As always, evil creeps in to steal the fruit of the faithful and the cycle repeats.
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Pink Clover
I don't usually say things like this, but your post is absolutely gross. Your religion is not more important than anyone else's religion ... or lack thereof. If you like your god, great! Just keep it to yourself and I will do the same.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
The guy is hardcore for Jesus. I picture a rundown shack near a creek and a white church down in the holler every time I read his posts. He’s out there.
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Rev Mark D
You know if you actually read jesus, the red parts in the Bible, at least what is supposed to have said, he's not bad at all, in fact he's pretty damn good. So everything else that's in there and whatever you want else does about it that's the big fubar snafu.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Agree, much of what he says regarding how to live a ‘good life’ is valid. Thing is that these instructions are not unique to the xtian beliefs. About 5% of Japanese are xtian. And yet the same values are instilled by all families. To me the Japanese live the tenets of Jesus more than American xtians.
The remarkable thing about the xtian religion is that people believe in all the hokum holding up the religion.
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ServantOfJudgement
What's gross Pink? The atheist warlord killing 20 million people and God putting said warlord and his forces down or UCL member Matthew Mastrogiovanni saying you should make Christianity illegal? It's hard to tell when you're talking to one that's had his moral compass turned upside down like Jesus said would happen. The good news is some of us still have our heads on straight. Once y'all ding us to the stone age, we clear thinking folks will show the humbled psychopath how to make pants again. With caution though, always with caution. Once you've got your pants back on you'll be back to warlording in no time..... always back to warlording.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
"...always back to warlording."
Yep.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_violence
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Robert Rohr
Got that right!
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Brother Sen
The last time the teachings of Christ were seen as "too weak" the Spanish were having their delightful Inquisition.
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Rev Mark D
I'm sure Jesus meant well, but he wasn't very important, obviously Christians knew better and could see how his imperfections needed to be fixed, so they went ahead and did so.
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Robert Gagnon
Buddhists, Muslims, and everybody else in a recognized religion treat every printed word of their founders as precious. Guess these guys are not true believers if they don't trust what the good book says. Yet somehow the folks we're discussing follow every word the great pumpkin said like it's their new Gospel.
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Rev Mark D
Great Pumpkin ..good one!
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I, myself, follow a Pagan Way of belief/worship/understanding Spirit in and through All creation and beyond; yet grew up in family of church goers. (I'm only Pagan/Witch in family, since childhood). Growing up with bible stories, church 2-3 times a week. I believe I remember Christ mentioning in the last days, there would be some falling away from the teachings, and following after their own heart/teachings. This sounds like what is happening in our Day.