Are magic mushrooms a religious sacrament? One San Francisco church says they are.

When some people say their trip was like a religious experience… they mean literally.

Meet the Church of Ambrosia, a religious group that promotes the use of magic mushrooms for spiritual purposes. 

Describing itself as “a nondenominational, interfaith religious organization that supports the use and safe access of all Entheogenic Plants,” the San Francisco church sells its sacrament to worshipers for as low as $8 per gram.

The church’s leader, Dave Hodges, insists that this isn’t just an excuse to get high.

He says his church is practicing the world’s oldest expression of faith, and that a good trip can bring you face to face with God.

Hodges recently went on Fox News to explain his position:

Finding God in the Spores

Hodges says that his church is not only sincerely religious, it’s based on the first religion.

“Magic Mushrooms catalyzed both the evolution of human communication and the emergence of religion itself,” their website explains. “Our ancestral apes, having experienced these otherworldly entities, endeavored to convey their experiences, trying to explain concepts as profound as spirits and God to each other.”

He described his own spiritual experiences as nothing less than an incredibly spiritual experience where one can see the face of God, including a specific trip where he was “ripped out of his body” and saw “heaven, hell, and everything in between,” where he ended up in “a space of pure light”.

Communion or Crime?

Unfortunately for Hodges and the Church of Ambrosia, the city of San Francisco doesn't see it that way.

In 2020, police raided his Oakland location for allegedly illegally selling cannabis, confiscating some $200,000 worth of cannabis and hallucinogenic mushrooms. The church is currently suing the city of Oakland for that raid, arguing that it constituted a seizure of its sacrament. 

So the question becomes: can the government dictate what substances are used to practice one's faith?

Hodges would argue that raids and other forms of police harassment are a direct violation of his religious freedom – and the religious freedom of his tens of thousands of converts.

“We operate under a federal law, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. That’s what allows ayahuasca and peyote churches that provide plants as part of their religion,” he explains. “We’re not different from that, that’s what we do.”

To him, it’s the exact same thing as a priest giving communion.

The authorities, on the other hand, see an unlicensed dispensary selling tax-free cannabis and psychedelic mushrooms.

A Far Out History

While a shroom church might sound like a thinly-veiled loophole to legally use drugs (lawyers hate this one simple trick!), the use of psychedelics actually has a rich spiritual history all its own.

Indigenous communities in North and South America have used psychedelics in spiritual practices for millennia, including psilocybin mushrooms and ayahuasca in shamanistic traditions.

Western scholars are now looking at how some indigenous tribes used psychedelics in order to use them medicinally to treat a number of mental health problems, from depression to anxiety to obsessive-compulsive disorder.

Apocalyptic painting by Jean-Pierre Dalbera
Now these are the ideas of a very sober man!  By Jean-Pierre Dalbéra from Paris, France La tenture de l'Apocalypse

It’s even been suggested that John, the writer of the Book of Revelation in the Bible, was himself high on magic mushrooms when he wrote that biblical text.

Anyone who’s read that text can tell you it’s full of bizarre apocalyptic visions. Seven-headed dragons, the Whore of Babylon, swords coming out of mouths.

Many have speculated that John of Patmos was in fact high as a kite when authoring that book; Hallucinogenic Morning Glory can be found on Patmos, and the nearby island of Kos has a number of species of psychedelic mushrooms. 

But that's just one of many theories that have been put forward about the connection between Christianity and psychedelics:

While some scholars dispute these links, the Church of Ambrosia does appear to sincerely believe hallucinogens are a religious sacrament.

What do you think? Should the government respect that belief, or should the church face consequences? 


  1. Russel A. Kester's Avatar Russel A. Kester

    Leave them be. There is a history to such use and the government should not interfere.

    1. John Robert Milner's Avatar John Robert Milner

      What’s the history?

      1. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

        They're found in cave paintings. That puts the history from 2023 to uh, well....cave paintings.....

        1. John Robert Milner's Avatar John Robert Milner

          They have no history to any American culture (such as the Navajo’s) and are doing “drugs” simply to get high and are using the “church” bandanna to skirt legal restrictions! There no religious connection here!

          1. John Michael Walters's Avatar John Michael Walters

            There was no American history for internet churches until someone made one, and yet, here we are. Who are you to decide for someone else what is or is not a religious experience?

      2. Russel A. Kester's Avatar Russel A. Kester

        Check Wikipedia, here's a quick section copied just by googling it: "The hallucinogenic species of the Psilocybe genus have a history of use among the native peoples of Mesoamerica for religious communion, divination, and healing, from pre-Columbian times to the present day. Mushroom stones and motifs have been found in Guatemala. A statuette dating from ca. 200." There are most likely many books you can also find to do more research. I'm surprised you didn't just do a little research before asking the question.

        1. Martin L Stigleman's Avatar Martin L Stigleman

          My issue is that, he claims it is a "sacrament" for his church...however, he SELLS IT, making his "religion" less of a church and more of a drug dealer. I also have a concern about his distribution of the mushrooms. The strength of the hallucinogenic varies and the effect changes according to the person using. Repeated use can build up a tolerance, meaning the user needs more in order to get the same effect. What is his qualification to SAFELY distribute to his customers? How is he regulating their usage? WHO is he allowing to use? I've known a lit of shroomies in my time, and by and large, they aren't exactly responsible with the storage of their baggies...especially when they are tripping. Have you ever seen someone overdo it on shrooms?...have you ever seen a CHILD overdo it?! No...If he is claiming this is a "CHURCH SACREMENT", then it needs to be supplied to his "parishioners" at no charge (he can ask for donations to his church, just like the rest of them do...or require a tithe, like the real criminal ones do). It also needs to be used ON SITE, and his services should encompass the period it takes for his users to "come down" so they can safely leave the church and legally travel in public. The amount offered should also be severely restricted, due to the effects it could have those with a lower metabolism and lesser resistance to the drug. I have NO PROBLEM with it's usage...just the excuses this drug dealer is using to try and skirt the law..

          1. Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson's Avatar Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson

            We get it Martin. You want it for free.

            Can't say I blame you! ;)

          2. Shango MasterExorcist, D.D.'s Avatar Shango MasterExorcist, D.D.

            Repeated use does not create any tolerance whatsoever. But this sacrament cannot be used twice in the same week, as it takes five days for your body to replace serotonin.

  1. Herbert Moore's Avatar Herbert Moore

    As the late Bob Sagarini said, "I'd take s five horse capsule of pure mescaline, put it in a glass of root beer, drink it and spend the next nine hours looking for God in a three way G.E. light bulb."

    1. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

      If that's a true quote from Bob Sagarini then Bob Sagarini never ate a lick of mescaline.

  1. Echo's Avatar Echo

    I may not agree with it. But at least if it's going to be used for religious use, it should be a legal substance. That's my two cents.

    1. John Robert Milner's Avatar John Robert Milner

      It’s to use drugs, period!

  1. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

    No people, organization, religion, corporation or government has exclusive rights to any natural plant. Any law that says otherwise is wrong. Anyone who enforces such a law is wrong. Anyone who agrees with such a law is wrong. If we want to talk about refining natural molecules into more potent compounds, I'm willing to flex but not with natural plants. Consider the atheist. Why must he violate his beliefs and claim membership to a religion to explore the mystery of enthogenic plants? Why does a native American have a right to eat a plant that the atheist in the same country will be imprisoned for? Are we equal or are we not? Why can a corporation grow a mushroom while the humans that work there and grow the mushrooms cannot grow them at home? Who is superior, the human, the corporation or the government? Which can survive without the others and which was here first? This is Man's right and in no way should it ever be hindered, especially by a non living entity.

    Can these things help someone find God? Maybe, maybe not. Could draw one closer or run one off. They can not produce a real God, that's for sure. They can let us imagine a god or feel like we're one or let us think we know there's one. If there is a God, he can't be summoned and ordered to demonstrate his power or realness. If there a God, we are beholden to him, not him to us and there's nothing anybody can do about it. These enthogenic plants can expand what we see as reality, let us appreciate the complexity of nature and the cosmos, let us examine ourselves against our own measuring stick and to literally destroy our own psyche even if only momentary. They can terrify, intellectually mutilate, self obliterate and momentarily decimate one's selfness. Many thousands of neural connections are made after ingesting certain enthogenic plants, connections that would not normally be made. Many of these neural links remain connected even after all other effects have dissipated. Small doses improve sight, reflex and cognitive function. Large doses ease anxiety of terminally ill people, help defeat alcoholism and expose the arrogant to humility. There is only one instrument that can explore and study the mysterious nature of enthogenic plants, that is the human mind. Science can not pass through the veil that the human mind can, nor will it ever.

    For the Christian or any other 'my body is my temple' type philosophy, be mindful about these things and stay on guard. Be aware of the power, benefits, risks and dangers. Research until you can stomach research no more. Know what it is that you're putting into your body or don't do it at all. Large doses will bring drunkenness though unlike the deadly and destructive drunkenness that comes with alcohol. Quite often users of enthogenic plants will one day "get the message" and hang up the phone. In this way they are self limiting.

    1. Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson's Avatar Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson

      Thank you for a great post SOJ. I love it! We need more discussion about the meat of social growth and conflict.

      First paragraph - I largely agree, but honestly I am allergic to absolutes. The hard truth is that generalities and absolutist thinking guarantees an exception, by it's very nature. Should anybody have absolute access to any natural plant? Probably. I can't think of any exceptions right off. I am against book bannings too, but you have to ask yourself if the Anarchists Cookbook (Google it) should be on every high school book shelf. I am for free speech, but one has to debate fiercely the 'value' of Nazi hate speech.

      Second paragraph - This is the meat of the subject. What exactly is the benefit of entheogenic substances?

      As I mentioned in my comment, hallucinogenic substances are currently being studied for possible therapeutic value against PTSD and schizophrenia. In these conditions the victim can experience terrifying hallucinogenic episodes of past memories and traumas that overwhelm consciousness and become disabling. This can be characterized, IMO, as 'disabling certainties'. The therapeutic value of entheogens comes in their ability to establish an "alternate consciousness" that lets a person see beyond their normal consciousness, giving a respitory perspective with which to perceive and process the 'disabling certainties'.

      An 'altered consciousness' of course is any consciousness outside of ordinary waking consciousness. Consciousness, of course, is awareness of internal or external existence. This may seem pedantic, but definitions become of EXTREME importance when trying to nail down the nature of reality through our only means of apprehending reality, rendering any innate bias, distortion, prejudice, predisposition, or other errant influence invisible.

      In short, most people suffer from an inherent mental bias and rigidity, but are completely unaware of it because there are no glaring discontinuities with reality - in fact, their biases and prejudices may actually be reinforced by common stimuli, giving the impression that reality and consciousness are 100% congruent.

      Have you ever felt the tension between the limits of your consciousness and the openness of existence? The feeling that all seems well, but somehow, you are missing something? Never? Well - there you go.

      Entheogens - and there are other methods as well - force an opening to an alternate consciousness. Then you are forced to consider that perhaps the way you always looked at things and thought about things, isn't the only way, at the very least. That is extremely frightening to some people - and an opportunity to others. This largely depends on an individual's mental flexibility.

      As to the actual experience itself - that's another post. This has already gone on too long.

  1. Tamara's Avatar Tamara

    Mushrooms have helped me cleanse pain and negative thoughts. Microdosing has helped me see clearly that I am my own higher power. I am grateful for mushrooms and the church dispensary in Oakland who provides such a miracle medicine. They have ice cream, cookies, candies, chocolates, etc. made with mushrooms. The people there are very kind and non-judgmental. Try and find non-judgmental people at any other church or religion. Impossible.

    1. Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson's Avatar Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson

      Sorry Tamara, but despite all rationality you are going to find a LOT of hard-core conservative religious nut-jobs here. Literally the only reason they can even be here is because of the radically inclusive values of the ULC - values which they innately and openly loathe, but without a moment's reflection they step right in, full of their usual pontification, judgement, arrogance, and condescension.

      It's obvious how deeply they fear the ULC. There is literally no other reason for them to be here when they already have religions and clergy of their own.

      1. Dr. Jerry Moyes's Avatar Dr. Jerry Moyes

        I agree 100%.

    2. Keith Allen Steele Eash's Avatar Keith Allen Steele Eash

      When you're doped you're not seeing clearly. Don't fool yourself falling to temptation. Fasting is the only clear way to God.

      1. John Michael Walters's Avatar John Michael Walters

        Fasting is just a different way of altering your brain chemistry. If fasting is acceptable, then why not other ways?

        1. Keith Allen Steele Eash's Avatar Keith Allen Steele Eash

          Fasting is natural and not doing or using anything that alters the mind like alcohol and drugs. Controlled substances do not allow someone to think clearly. Fasting exists in all religions and is proven to work. It is not altering the mind as you think it is. Better do some research.

          1. Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson's Avatar Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson

            Have you ever fasted and induced a religious experience KASE?

          2. Alejandro Medina de Wit's Avatar Alejandro Medina de Wit

            Mushrooms are natural and created by "God", am I right?

      2. Dr. Jerry Moyes's Avatar Dr. Jerry Moyes

        Keith, you're stating what you believe, and I support that. However, not everyone believes the same thing, and I support everyone right to believe and worship as they choose. Altered states, achieved in a multitude of ways, including fasting and taking mushrooms have been a part of religious practices from prehistory. If we expect freedom to practice our religion as we choose, we must stad up for others who choose to practice their religion in different ways.

  1. Mark R McAdams's Avatar Mark R McAdams

    California is actually considering a bill that would make this legal. I hope it moves forward and is passed. That’ll take all of the religious judgement out of the picture. As I understand it peyote was at one point also included but indigenous tribes protested. Asking that their cultural spirituality be left out of it. I shake my head at both sides of the dissenters. The religious faction for telling others how to practice their spirituality and the indigenous for closing off their version of spirituality to others. That’s like a Coptic Christian from Egypt telling one from the US,” you can’t practice my religion because we did it first.” 😳🙄

    1. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

      The bill of rights in the Ohio constitution makes this statement:

      "All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own conscience."

      1. Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson's Avatar Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson

        It's unfortunate how so many religious adherents interpret that to mean forcing others to also adhere to their religion.

        1. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement


          This is a human condition you speak of, not a religious condition. All peoples want all other peoples to believe as they do. Examine this site and the general nature atheists have towards anyone who doesn't believe as they do. One might think they're all the same person with different user names. This can be found anywhere you'll find a human and would persist as is even if all religions were eradicated.

          1. Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson's Avatar Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson

            "All peoples want all other peoples to believe as they do."

            I keep going on about this, but people keep ignoring it. So, let's go over it again.

            Definition of a conservative:

            [kənˈsərvədiv] ADJECTIVE 1. averse to change or innovation and holding traditional values

            Notice they don't say what those values are, only that they are held because of 'tradition'. And how do you think being 'averse to change' manifests? Might it be by working to unify beliefs?

            Definition of a liberal:

            [ˈlib(ə)rəl] ADJECTIVE 1. willing to respect or accept behavior or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas

            Here's my take SOJ - the universe is bigger than me. It's bigger than you too.

            You're right, this is bigger than religious extremists, or secular extremists, or any specific ideology. THIS IS THE CONSERVATIVE MENTALITY. Next you are going to say, "But you are demanding the same thing!" Nope. I am saying STOP TELLING PEOPLE WHAT TO THINK. Let them be! Let them be themselves! Instead of FORCING women to carry every pregnancy to term, let them have abortions if they want - STOP forcing your beliefs on women! If you want a religious school - fine! But DO NOT make taxpayers pay for the indoctrination of your children! If you think the LGBTQ+ have cooties, fine - but STOP forcing your beliefs on society by excluding them from society!

            It's the busybody Gestapo that wants to run society, and they need to stop. They need to let people be people. THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE.

  1. Minister James R. Henry's Avatar Minister James R. Henry

    I do not agree that a true Church would allow substances to be used in order to "connect with God." Those who connected with God, and were shown God's true glory were NOT on psychedelic drugs, they were using the true power of God to see what God wanted them to see. I do believe that certain groups have used these types of drugs because they didn't have God, or personally know Jesus Christ, but they have actually denied true faith in God, and using drugs denies true faith in God's power. Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, and to put drugs, such as these in them, defiles that temple!

    1. Cyril R. VanKeirsbelk's Avatar Cyril R. VanKeirsbelk

      Throughout history people used all kinds of drugs. To think that Christians did not is ridiculous.

    2. Dr. Jerry Moyes's Avatar Dr. Jerry Moyes

      James this isn't about what you believe, but rather the rights of others to believe and worship as they choose.

  1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

    God is perfect and provided them for us to use. Catholics drink wine what’s wrong with magic mushroom?

    1. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

      Right. Alcohol is the most destructive drug mankind has ever known. It easily beats all other drugs because of its addictive nature, it's accessibility and destructive results. It can be made from anything that contains sugar, trust me on that, I've made carrot wine once when I was in a pinch. If a serious comparison is made with alcohol against psilocybin mushrooms, we should be able to compare a rabid Irish wolfhound to a 3 month old kitten and just about get the same results.

  1. Nicholas J Page's Avatar Nicholas J Page

    Any halucenetic drug can make you believe this and that.What about people who are under the influence of narcotics believe they can fly etc.No drug will make you closer to God only belief and prayers.

  1. Colleen McAllister's Avatar Colleen McAllister

    I do not believe in a God whom You need to be on drugs to see. I can speak to and Worship my God without any outside means. He created the Universe. He can certainly reach my inward spiritual parts without artificial additives.

    1. Susan Elizabeth Jackson's Avatar Susan Elizabeth Jackson

      But that's just it "you believe" - & that's beautiful btw ❤️. I don't think any 2 of us on earth believe in exactly the same things.

      Mushrooms are not artificial, they are natural & can be safely eaten. God made them for a reason. Every plant on earth is here for a reason.

      Some people are poor of spirit, or so rooted in the physical realm (or etc) that they really can't connect with something that's intangible. Perhaps this 1 thing helps them to expand their minds to the possibilities of spirit, God, heaven, the unseen world (which is 95-99% of the universe). Whether they do it once or 13x, if it connects them, or just brings them closer to connecting to God/Love - brings the idea of spirit, a spiritual realm, heaven, love &/or light into the forefront of their minds where they are truly changed for the better, can we really say that this is a bad thing?

      I believe that there are many paths to God/consciousness/spirit. But I would never force anyone else to see things my way. I just think that people should be free to connect with God however, wherever & whenever they choose. [It's what this world reallllly needs.]

      Love & peace be with you & all of the lovely souls here 🙏💖

  1. Colleen McAllister's Avatar Colleen McAllister

    I do not believe in a God whom You need to be on drugs to see. I can speak to and Worship my God without any outside means. He created the Universe. He can certainly reach my inward spiritual parts without artificial additives.

    1. Dr. Jerry Moyes's Avatar Dr. Jerry Moyes

      Colleen this isn't about what you believe, it's about what others believe.

      1. Colleen McAllister's Avatar Colleen McAllister

        In this case my belief does matter as we are talking about the laws of our country. Insert any other drug in place of mushrooms and its the same thing. What if a church chose Heroin or Opium as their sacrament? The line needs to be drawn somewhere and my beliefs color where I see a need to draw it.

        1. Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson's Avatar Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson

          So all drugs are the same? So we need to outlaw aspirin? Alcohol is a drug too - so much for the sacramental wine - Colleen says so!

          OR - perhaps we should put a little more thought and intelligence into this?

    2. Alejandro Medina de Wit's Avatar Alejandro Medina de Wit

      Good for you!

  1. Thor Pedersen's Avatar Thor Pedersen

    Nothing questionable about it. Their religion predates Christianity, was used around the world, and never murdered millions if innocent people. For worshipping the wrong God, or wrong way.

  1. Susan Elizabeth Jackson's Avatar Susan Elizabeth Jackson

    Excuse my "&" vs "and" - it seems this thread does not like that sign 😬😉❤️

    1. Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson's Avatar Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson

      I wish there was a posting guide somewhere. I found by dumb luck that enclosing in asterisks gives italics, but I never would have guessed.

      Also, recently the blog was changed so that a comment is visible before it is approved. Is there any possible way we might be given a small window to edit our comments?? Even just 15 minutes after pressing Post Comment would be a real blessing.

  1. Dr. Zerpersande, NSC's Avatar Dr. Zerpersande, NSC

    The use of hallucinogenic compounds would explain portions of the bible. As Peter Gabriel wrote:

    ‘Sure hope Moses knows his roses.’

  1. Billy Heckstall's Avatar Billy Heckstall

    Any God that requires one to endanger your mental health as well as others. Doesn’t quite sound like the message the Hebrews were attempting to deliver nor practicing. Man’s history is filled with selfish pursuit to see God, find God or be God. No where does the journey ever ends up with a mission of bringing anything other than bragging rights back to the human race or God’s children. Amazing isn’t it! Such a fantastic journey and all I have to offer you is not a transition of my spirit and soul, but I saw the light? Really? No leadership powers from the sci-fi journey, no peace to pass down? Just a Court day… wow! Thanks! But no thanks, My God doesn’t real require me to do time. Sorry, no mushrooms, no court date and definitely no fine! O’yeah by the way, I’ve always been taught that everything we see is God making his presence visible; it’s even how we truly express love for one another. If you truly believe we are all a part of God! Then do your part, and act like it! What a God you have, he created life so he might go in search of himself ( sounds like the sixties and seventies to me). What a vein God, imagine all eternity looking at self through the confused eyes and mind of man. Got it! Look! Call it what it is and add some wine, smoke, cut up the music and call the chick in San Francisco to bring her sex in congregation over and have a real nineteen sixties Wood stock Jam! At least in the name of God, that would be more honest… Ciao!

  1. Florencio Guevara's Avatar Florencio Guevara

    There needs to be EXACT legal definitions and limits to this. It really is long tradition, yet, this very tradition has to be protected from our modern drug cartels, to prevent this being taken over by outsiders forcefully.

  1. Daniel Ginther's Avatar Daniel Ginther

    This is not a Christian practice or belief. this is just another false religion that leads people away from getting born again. Satan has many devices.

  1. Daniel Todd Kamm's Avatar Daniel Todd Kamm

    Liked the play on words, "morels" versus "morals" and hoping I was not the only one who caught that, because the commentary would indicate otherwise.

    Thankfully, mushrooms have no opinions ... as far as I know... and I hope they forgive me when I chop certain ones over a pizza or toss others in a broth or stock.

  1. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement


    You said- "Have you ever felt the tension between the limits of your consciousness and the openness of existence? The feeling that all seems well, but somehow, you are missing something?"

    This feeling of 'forgetting something' or 'missing something' in the tangible world like thinking you left the stove on when you know you didn't may plug into the spiritual world in the same way as you've suggested. Not everyone feels that way and not everyone has a desire to explore entheogens. To some it's pure terror to experience it and some are terrified to even entertain the thought. The trouble with the effects of enthogenic plants is words don't exist to accurately convey what the user will experience. You could write a poem or a song but still, the words used would be inadequate surrogates. If a pioneering soul finally does make that life changing step, they always say something like: "I never dreamed it would be that way".

    I wonder sometimes if there are 'watchmen' among us that have a propensity to be more observant of their surroundings than the next guy. We all have special talents and gifts, being more aware could be such a gift or talent for some. It seems natural that watchmen would use any tool available to improve his sight or understand the lay of the land.

    1. Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson's Avatar Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson

      "This feeling of 'forgetting something' or 'missing something' in the tangible world like thinking you left the stove on when you know you didn't may plug into the spiritual world in the same way as you've suggested."

      My comment concerned more the nature of the universe. For example a caveman looking up at the stars and having the feeling there is something more to what he is seeing, but being quite unprepared on numerous fronts to even consider Einstein's theory of relativity or even Newton's law of gravity. He knows something of such far reaching understanding must be there, but he also knows it is far outside his "consciousness". He 'feels' the 'tension' between the LIMITS of his consciousness and the 'openness of existence'. He understands that his understanding is limited - not the universe.

      How do we know there aren't understandings as far above us as relativity is above the caveman? There is ample opportunity for just such discoveries, I would think you would agree. I've said it elsewhere - the enemy is certainty. What if the caveman decided there was nothing more to what he saw than what he saw - and many certainly did. What if science suddenly decided it was "certain" of all of its finds so far, so that no further findings were necessary? "This is it - there's no more to find, we hereby declare!" Some might argue that it's ridiculous to live without counting on some certainties. I think science proves we can proceed confidently without certainty.

      As to plugging into the spiritual world - metaphysics adds a whole new dimension, for sure.

      "Not everyone feels that way and not everyone has a desire to explore entheogens."

      This is true.

      "To some it's pure terror to experience it and some are terrified to even entertain the thought."

      'Bad trips' certainly do exist. Frightening metaphysical experience certainly does exist. All manner of metaphysical experience has been written about extensively. It seems to me very much like any other human endeavor. Millions of people drive safely every day. Some do not. Millions of people fly safely every day. Some do not. Everything carries a risk - everything worthwhile, that is.

      "The trouble with the effects of enthogenic plants is words don't exist to accurately convey what the user will experience. You could write a poem or a song but still, the words used would be inadequate surrogates. If a pioneering soul finally does make that life changing step, they always say something like: "I never dreamed it would be that way"."

      How much is any description like the experience of 'being there' anyway? I think counting on words misses the point. Nobody reads about the Grand Canyon and then thinks, "Now I don't have to go."

      And as I said, there are numerous ways of inducing metaphysical experience. Drugs. Fasting. Meditation. Sweat lodge. Near death experience. And others. Some are safer than others, obviously. This is where it becomes advantageous to study other religions. Many have explored these questions long ago. Certain sects of Buddhism and Hinduism come easily to mind.

  1. Timothy C Stone's Avatar Timothy C Stone

    In his book, The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yqaui Way of life Carlos was taught the 'Little Smoke' (shrooms) was a vehicle to a Spiritual level. Once that level was achieved you no longer needed the vehicle. You could go there in ritula meditation, prayer if you will.

  1. Dr. Jerry Moyes's Avatar Dr. Jerry Moyes

    There are two key points here as I see it. 1. It's beyond question that altered states of consciousness have been used as a part of religion and spiritualism as far back as historical records exist, and that certain mushrooms can produce altered states of consciousness. there's a solid basis to claim the use of these mushrooms as a religious and/or worship practice. 2. This organization has been recognized as a legitimate church or religion, which grants Constitution protection under freedom of religion. Sure, this may be a group of people who just like doing mushrooms, but it also may not be, neither we nor law enforcement are permitted to make that determination. Freedom of religion is intended to protect the practitioners of all religions equally, and we must make sure it does or our freedom to practice our religions and worship in our own way is loses its protection. Jefferson's "High Wall" should have been adopted, if it had we would all be better off, as government has no place in religion.

  1. Bishop William Dusenberry, DD's Avatar Bishop William Dusenberry, DD

    As a Secular Humanist Pantheist (SHP’er) who knows (not merely believes) that God and nature, are one and the same thing, mushrooms are to be used, recreationally, medically, conditionally (as long as they kill you) as the need be.

    I can recommend the ones that make most of what you experience, funny, as the British kids do, every spring, after collecting, then eating — mushrooms grown in sheep popo.

    ULC Bishop Bill, from Broken Arrow, Oklahoma.

  1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

    As I’ve mentioned in other posts here, the Book of Revelation was written on the Isle of Patmos, which has always been known for its shrooms production, and still is today. Trying to understand the Book of Revelation could be one of the results of the author being under the influence of his shrooms. He possibly was in touch with more than one God 🤭


    1. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

      My first thought when I read that John ate the little book and it was honey in the mouth and bitter in the belly then began reciting weird and wild visions was that the little book was a psychedelic of some sort. There are also weird and wild reports from prophets describing God's visible glory. If you read them and play the vision out in your mind, it is indeed spectacular beyond Hollywoods imagination.
      As I'm gathering, the book of revelation's understanding is dependent on the study and understanding of both old and new testaments. Sort of like arithmetic first, then algebra, then trigonometry, Revelation being trigonometry. That may be true, once I understood(ish) the old testament, the new testament became very clear and in agreement with the old testament. I will put it all to the test once I get to revelation through the proper method.

      Anyway, you could be right, John may have gone to deep blue space on that island. If we get to the point that we can't buy or sell anything without a number in our hand or forehead, we'll know to read the document from a perspective different that the one we're using now. In that case, I doubt psychedelics were involved with the writing of the document.

      We shall see.....maybe

      1. Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson's Avatar Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson

        The language of spirit is the same language as the language of the subconscious, which is the same language as that of visions and dreams - and that is metaphor.

        1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

          Mormons, JW's, Islamists, etc., all say the same thing. All of them are going by the spirit 🤭


          1. Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson's Avatar Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson

            That's not true LH.

            All the Abrahamic religions go by revelation. This may be going by the 'spirit' but it is only as reportedly revealed to the Saints, the Prophets, the Savior, etc. Ordinary people are heavily discouraged from entertaining direct interactions. Any such reported interaction is closely scrutinized to ensure it isn't "Satanic".

            In the east there are those theologies that tell one to "Look within", but traditionally in the west we are told that we are "sinners" (translation, "idiots"), and our only path to 'salvation' is to go to church and to love God. In other words, "Look without".

            1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

              Yes, that’s why I added the “etc” indicating all other religions.

              As for scrutinizing to make sure it isn’t “satanic”, this is of course fallacious, because Satan, the Devil, and all other mythological entities are, of course, all constructs of men, with no basis for any demonstrable evidence to support the construct.


              1. Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson's Avatar Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson

                By saying "closely scrutinized to ensure it isn't Satanic", I meant that as a code word to ensure nothing occurred that disagreed with religious dogma.

                That's what it really means - and make no mistake, their mythological entities are VERY real to them.

  1. Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson's Avatar Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson

    The real drug in this story, the real addiction, the real devastation, the real self-medication, is Certainty.

    Certainty is a mental position of supreme confidence in one's own opinions and outlook. It is the core of the conservative mentality that works zealously to control others and remake the world in its own prejudiced perception.

    The conservative mentality will sacrifice anyone and anything to sustain its certainty, just like a drug addict for his drug. He believes it gives him power and control, just as a drug addict sees his drug, but it works by actually shrinking and limiting an addicts world as he continually rejects and eliminates anything that threatens his certainty - just like a drug to a drug addict - but the truth is no matter how hard he tries, he can never shoehorn the entire universe into the little box of his certainty, no matter how hard he tries. The conservative mentality, however, believes it can - and that is the source of the conservative element of society so strongly rejecting hallucinogenic substances such as these - because they are VERY comfortable with their Certainties, and they believe everybody else should be too - and that's the conservative movement in a nutshell, manifested in this issue, this conflict in society.

    As the article says, altered states of consciousness are currently being researched for possible benefit against such conditions as PTSD and schizophrenia, for example. The current research is gaining favor and showing much promise.

    I've never done much drugs in my life, and I've never had a religious or spiritual experience from any kind of intoxicant, but I can just imagine how truly freeing, truly enlightening, truly transcending seeing the light of God shining all of existence, invisibly animating every atom, every cell, every quantum fluctuation of a vacuum, the vastness of the unknown totality, to see through one's own ego for what it really is, for what we all are, would be - and isn't that what religion is supposed to be all about?

    But it appears that is exactly what certain irrational authorities are terrified of.

  1. Keith Allen Steele Eash's Avatar Keith Allen Steele Eash

    They are not a religion.

    1. Timothy C Stone's Avatar Timothy C Stone

      Why not? Those people are seeking Spiritual Enlightenment, (GOD).

  1. Father Frederick's Avatar Father Frederick

    The question does not command an answer which is easy, especially when humans respond with preference vs citation of scripture. Think of various "sins" and how they could be justified as church practice.

    The subject of separation of the State from religious convictions, values, and rituals has always been a sticky situation. It reminds me of an old priest friend, who was afflicted with painful arthritis. His solution, (since the State he lives in bans opioids and punishes users by draconian methods), was to keep quiet and not say anything to anyone.

    This religious group probably would not be in the trouble they are now, had they not been so vocal about their rituals. Sometimes silence is golden, and you should go for the gold.

  1. Rolando Couce's Avatar Rolando Couce

    The mushrooms will bring you closer to God cause it will kill you or addict you

    1. Timothy C Stone's Avatar Timothy C Stone

      Not true at all. UYou are misinformed.

  1. Joseph Brian Kozic's Avatar Joseph Brian Kozic

    Church is where you go to talk about god. Mushroom sacrament is what you take to talk with god.

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