America's recurring nightmare has sadly become a predictable affair.
A crazed gunman decides to go on a rampage. The media milks the shooting story for all it's worth. Arguments about gun control dominate the headlines. We say "this cannot happen again," but nothing changes. Rinse and repeat.
It seems we have all become conditioned to this cycle. We look big picture, because big picture is important. But in doing so, we sometimes fail to appreciate the human elements of these stories. Too often, we overlook the heroic actions of brave people who help prevent such senseless tragedies from being even worse than they already are.
So, in the wake of yet another mass shooting we've decided to focus on the individuals who confronted the nightmare before them in the most selfless way possible, putting themselves between the shooter and his intended victims, and paying the ultimate price for it.
Scott Beigel
Scott Beigel taught World Geography at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. It was his first year teaching there. Friends and former students described him as quick-witted with a warm sense of humor, a 'guiding light' with a huge heart. He was killed as he desperately tried to lock the door to his classroom, having shepherded terrified students in from the hallways and encouraged them to hide behind his desk. Scott Beigel was 35.
"When he opened the door, he had to relock it so that we could stay safe but he didn't get the chance," explained distraught student Kelsey Friend. She then looked straight into the news cameras to address Beigel's own grieving family: "I am alive today because of him. Thank you for bringing and having this amazing person in life and giving him the power to be stronger than I could have ever been."
Aaron Feis
37-year-old football coach Aaron Feis was also the acting security guard at the school. A former Stoneham student himself, he had been working there for eight years, and was well known by everyone in the community. When the shooter opened fire, Feis threw himself in front of terrified students, turning his body into human shield. "He died the same way he lived - he put himself second," said school spokesman Denise Lehtio. "He was a very kind soul, a very nice man. He died a hero."
Chris Hixon
Chris Hixon was the school's athletic director, wrestling coach, and a former military man. Always the first on the scene of school fights to break things up, Hixon was widely respected by students and teachers alike.
"Chris is probably the nicest guy I have ever met," explained Dan Jacob, a fellow teacher. "He would give you the shirt off his back. He does so much. It is so senseless."
Police say Hixon died protecting several students from gunfire. He was 49.
Answering the Call
But these three individuals aren't the only heroes in this tragedy. 15-year-old freshman Peter Wang also gave his life to help others. Wang was reportedly gunned down while holding a door open for his fellow students to escape.
And there were countless others who made a difference. Teachers who quickly jumped into lockdown protocol and likely saved lives, administrators and janitors who put themselves in harm's way to urge students to stay calm, show them where to hide, or tell them where to run.
**A Light in the Darkness
**
What leads normal human beings to lay down their lives for others? If a deranged individual opening fire on innocent people represents evil in its purest form, surely such acts of selflessness represent the exact opposite: the intrinsic goodness of humanity.
For every shooter who decides to commit a heinous act of violence, there exist countless brave people who are willing to give their lives to protect others.
Under the circumstances, it might seem antithetical to talk about intrinsic goodness. But we think it's important to highlight, now more than ever. Though we must cope with a disturbing example of evil, we recognize that such evil does not define us.
This latest mass shooting is a reminder that even amid seemingly endless darkness, there is always light to be found.
187 comments
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James
The cat has been out of the bag for 250 years. Guns aren't the issue. Mentally ill peopeo are the issue. People that can't cope with their anger, those who can't tolertol others that disagreed with them, those who can't tolerate ideas that contradict their ideas. No sane /good person would never kill innocent children. It's not a party, an idea, a religion..... It's the evil that has infected the minds of some people. That is where we must aim our efforts. Not a group thought of a unicorn dream fix. Then, this is the United States of America. We are nothing like the British, Irish, Russians, Africans or any one else. We don't need to do what others are doing, or have tried. We are more powerful, larger, and yes better all around. That's why people want to come here. But we must preserve what made us what we are. God bless America! God help those who lost their family members
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katy wall
"The cat has been out of the bag for 250 years. Guns aren’t the issue."
I must have missed the part of history class when the Founding Fathers use of AR 15s was mentioned.
If you believe mentally ill people are the issue then you must completely disagree with the actions of Trump and the GOP to make it easier for the mentally ill get a gun. Not to mention their efforts to cut medicaid which provides mental health services to countless. Put your money where your mouth is.
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James
The founding fathers used the best of their time to fight for our freedoms. If AR 15s were invent at that time, you bet your undies they'd use them. However, violence is violence. If not gun it would be some other weapon. That is mankind for ya. That is reality.
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Jim D.
william, how did Trump and the GOP make it easier for mentally ill people to get a gun?
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Jeanie
trump signed into law that it’s ok for mentally ill people have the right to buy guns like anyone else. Basically because Obama had a law that took it away, trump made sure to undo that law. And to undo our protection.
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Jim D.
Sorry, Jeanie, that's not exactly correct. Trump restored the rights of Social Security recipients that use a designated payee. All it means is that they have someone else manage their money. It does not mean they have been adjudicated as being mentally ill, which would cause you to fail the background check.
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Christian
Nothing in your post was correct, nor cited.
USA stays free because invading USA would cost too much to any enemy army.
Everyone who can legally own AR-15s should buy two and a gun safe, then go to all the gun safety & training courses offered by their local police department.
The Citizen-Soldier is as old as 1776, when every citizen knew he would volunteer to defend our Nation.
Today in 2018, young patriots should join the National Guard or go full time in the service of our country.
Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, Border Patrol, Coast Guard, Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines all need more volunteers.
So do your local Ambulance, fire departments, and police.
Earn Your Flag, not burn a flag...
The Red & White symbolizes the blood and the bandages of our Veterans of All wars.
The Stripes stand for the original colonies, and the 50 Stars represent one for each of the States today.
God Blesses America when America Blesses God.
What to stop the killing ? BAN ABORTION.
Every American Baby has a God Given Right to LIFE LIBERTY and the PERSUIT OF HAPPINESS.
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Helen Sabin
Jeanie - you have made TWO stupid statements in this post. Go get educated please.
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Helen Sabin
You obviously know NOTHING about AR's. The rifles the colonists used were deadly. Have you ever seen a musket ball that was used at the time? You would be severely wounded if not dead if one hit you. The founding fathers knew that ARMS were needed to stop the government which as you can see under Obama went crazy with corruption and evil intent, and ARMS were needed to protect our Constitutional rights. Plus arms are needed for personal defense. GO learn something about guns before you opine as you sound ignorant and uneducated about them.
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Ron
Yes you did miss the part when the founding fathers mentioned AT 15s. It was when they mentioned the right to bear arms. AR15s are arms.
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Sedici
The oppressing British forces didn't have AR's back then either...
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Helen Sabin
If you ever have a chance to see or attend an Appleseed event where they teach rifle shooting improvement and American History go! One skill the colonists had or learned was to shoot with eyes on the target. The British would aim, then turn their heads so the powder and smoke would not blow into their faces. They were notoriously poor shots. Plus colonists would not march in straight lines asking to be target practice.
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Beth K
Not to mention that few of the mentally ill attack anyone. They are much more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators. Setting up lists of such people puts up another readily-available unarmed people for the shooters to gun down in cold blood.
How are we not like British, Irish, Russians, Germans, Africans, Australians, and other people? We're all human beings. They don't have nearly the gun violence the US has. In fact, the only places it's comparable are countries where there are civil wars.
People don't want to come here, except to escape those civil wars. The US is now being warned against by the governments of most industrialized, wealthy nations because of the amount of violence that their citizens encounter while being tourists. They're spending their money in other countries.
I've been shooting for many years, and am a responsible gun owner. The gun culture that exists in some areas of the US and some subcultures is starting to look like a religion - and a religion that requires child sacrifice - about every other day for the past several years.
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James
I do not know where you are from but nothing like that evee happens around my neck of the woods. I've never even heard anyona talk like that in person. Mostly just keyboard tough guys. It might be a city thing. Idk
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Beth K
I'm out here on the high plains, in a rural farming community. NOBODY needs a magazine of 30 rounds to kill game! If you take more than 2 shots, you've missed and the other wildlife in the area are gone. Not to kill varmints or predators - they're gone too after 2 shots. You're right. It must be a city thing among people who were never taught to shoot - but keep the gun around to protect them kind of like a totem. The people around here mostly own several guns - for several types of shooting. You don't kill an elk with the same gun you kill waterfowl with. You don't kill either with an AR-15, since the weapon was designed for the bullet to tumble. Great for killing a lot of people or destroying a lot of property. Awful if you want to eat it or have it stuffed when you're done.
But, the gun culture that does a mass shooting every 40 hours now, and a school shooting every 60 hours doesn't think that way. Their guns are kind of... a religion. And, I guess it's too bad for them (or it's a feature) to kill dozens of children per week. There has been more than one person who's said on social media "Your dead kids don't trump my 2nd amendment rights". The people in my local area feel the same way.
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Chester
Not even close to true. The 5.56mm or .223 Remington was just a faster .222. Known for years as a great varmint round. The .223 is most often used as a varmint and small predator round. From groundhogs to coyote. In some states it's legal to hunt deer with and with proper load selection and placement works well.
Besides the fact that the entire reason for the 2nd had little to do with hunting. Remember, the British were coming to seize private owned canon. Most definitely a weapon of war.
The founding fatherfathets had examples of firearms that would fire multiple shots before reloading. However there were zero examples of electronic media, social media, tv, radio, high speed presses etc. So that silly argument would give government the ability to stop all anti government speech that wasn't printed by hand or on a hand press.
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Helen Sabin
Bethz... you know nothing about guns if you say bullets tumble. They do not!!! DUH, You are a misinformed bloviator who is trying to opine from ignorance. Go get educated on what bullets do when fired. Sigh!
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Helen Sabin
People don't want to come here? ARE YOU NUTS? You are either clearly unaware of the backlog of people wanting to get in or are a leftist propagandist.The State Department keeps track of those numbers and publishes them annually, and we’re quickly approaching 5 million immigrants waiting abroad, which is an astounding number on its own. This does NOT account for those already here which are in the millions. Now go wash your mouth out with soap and hit yourself upside your head as you are just plain stupid!
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Helen Sabin
Bethkz....Australia took away guns in a ban years ago. They left their people vulnerable with no means of self defense. Aussies learned their lesson. Today more guns are owned by Aussies than in the last 20 years. And thousands of tourists visit the US....go google your statements and you will find out you are listening to leftist talking points. Sorry....The gun culture hasn’t changed. No NRA member or responsible gun owner has ever shot up a school. Just mentally ill registered Democrats of male gender have been the bad actors. And given your words, do like leftists are doing ....turn in YOUR gun. Destroy it. Then come back and show us.
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Richard
I’m a psychotherapist. Mental health intervention will help address this problem, but is not sufficient alone. Mentally ill people access military grade weapons and slaughter more people than if they were forced to use a less lethal weapon. Banning assault rifles, (mass shooters’ weapon of choice), is part of the solution as are strengthening school security measures, training teachers and students to identify alienated youth, and other components. We are like other people and nations to various degrees and should learn from practices in other countries that have helped address gun violence. I’m not talking about taking away guns from law abiding citizens, just addressing the reality that the US is one of the most violent and dangerous nations on earth with respect to gun violence. You seem in denial about the issue preferring instead to obsess about our superiority over every body else on the planet. We would be an even greater country if people like you were willing to realistically accept our flaws as well as our strengths.
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Jim D.
Richard, just a few comments...
The AR-15 is not a "military grade" weapon. There is not a single member or our military that was ever issued an AR-15. That rifle is a semi-automatic firearm. It's not a machine gun.
An AR-15 did not kill those 17 people last week. It did not jump off the rack, load itself, and run around a high school shooting people. Those 17 innocent victims were killed by a man with serious emotional problems. He was able to pull of this calamity because educators, mental health professionals, and law enforcement dropped the ball... BIG TIME! There were more red flags on this kid than Heinz has pickles. The same thing happened with the shooting at the church in Texas. The Air Force failed to notify the proper authorities that the shooter was dishonorably discharged from the service and had multiple instances of domestic violence.
Gun control is not the answer. It only makes it harder for law-abiding citizens to acquire firearms. There is already a law in place that could have helped prevent this crime. Unfortunately, law enforcement failed.
If the problem is insufficient funds and manpower, then law enforcement needs an upgrade.
We need better security at our schools. There is tons of security at banks, stadiums and courthouses. Does that mean money, athletes and judges are more precious to us than our children?
Finally, and maybe most importantly, we need to improve the mental healthcare system. I don't know how... I'm not an expert in that area. But there has to be something we can do to address the mental health crisis. It's not fair to blame the millions of law-abiding gun owners in our country for the failures of law enforcement, educators and mental health professionals.
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Jeanie
Lol! Funny. Mental illness is not the issue. Perhaps the nut who legally sold him an AR-15, which is not necessary for anyone to own. He shouldn’t have been allowed to buy it and certainly nobody else should. I’m more worried about the person having a bad day going off than if someone who’s bipolar or schizophrenic. Blaming anything on mental illness is ridiculous. Gun control is what should be done period. Nobody needs semi automatic or automatic weapons. Time to care about others and stop obsessing about guns. That to me is sick.
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Jim D.
The person who sold the gun is not a nut. He/she is a licensed firearms dealer, and that's their business. Lots of people have bad days. I know I've had my share. Mentally ill people are the ones that act out inappropriately.
As for who needs a semi-automatic weapon, it's not a question of need. Nothing in this country has ever been a question of need. No one needs a 50" TV, no one needs 20 pairs of shoes, and no one needs an AR-15. But they are all things people want, and want is what drives our society.
So if you want to live in a 400 square foot shed with one pair of Birkenstock sandals to your name because you only want what you need, go right ahead. No one will stop you. But don't think for a second anyone is going to let you or anyone else tell them what can have based on what YOU think is needed. That's just an immature and ignorant point of view.
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Chester
Then we'll be like China and have one person stab 21 students at a school, or four people kill 136 people with knives. It's more common there to have mass stabbings than the false number of shootings that are reported in the us.
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Alex A
The four people you speak of killed 29 (still a lot I know). The balance of the 136 were injured rather than killed. If the 4 killers had access to firearms rather than machetes this would have been much worse.
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Helen Sabin
Richard - the average citizen cannot access MILITARY GRADE WEAPONS! PERIOD! They can get a license costing thousands of dollars for a full auto weapon that costs thousands of dollars but those are few and far between. The average full auto weapon costs around 15K. Then the appplication fee, background check and cost to obtain that fee is expensive. Go get some education and shut up until you know of what you speak! Since May 1986 all Machine guns manufactured are no longer available for civilian purchase. Military and law enforcement only!! A gun that costs $1000 the military or police will cost a civilian $16,000 today.
There are a limited number of full autos that civilians can buy and each time they sell and change hands... the price will go up.
Here is a link to show you the average prices over the year. http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/html/subguns.html
There are some sights on the internet where you can buy an full autos that are brand new. Some other sites you may not know what your going to get.
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Helen Sabin
Most people cannot access military grade weapons. They are restricted for military use only. You obviously do not shoot as you don’t know the difference between a military grade weapons and an AR 15. Please call learn the difference
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Gary
If you take Guns out of the equation it doesnt matter If your mentally ill or not, No Guns = No Shooting = No Death! Its not rocket science! "America is better all round"? Wow, Your riding waves your ego can't catch, Blind patriotism solves nothing!
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Jim D.
If they do not have access to guns, they will find another way. The attacker in New York killed eight and injured eleven with a truck. The attacker in Nice, France killed 86 people. It's not difficult to get your hands on a truck, and no one is proposing we get rid of motor vehicles because they can be used as weapons
Remember September 11? Over 3,000 people killed with airplanes. Did we get rid of airplanes? No. But we sure did beef up security.
The correct answer is to improve security at our schools and address the very serious mental health crisis. Leave law-abiding gun owners alone.
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Terri Davis
That 19 year old by gun owner standards was a law abiding gun owner when he killed people.
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Jim D.
Terri, if law enforcement and the mental health industry had done their respective jobs, he would not have been able to purchase the gun legally.
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Alex A
Jim I'm not sure how useful it can be to group together terrorist attacks based on ideology with school shootings based on revenge motives or mental illness.
Sure, if people want to hurt others they will find a way, but ready availability of classes of weapons that, as someone else here said, can be used to quickly and effectively despatch a whole herd of errant piglets surely can't help, can it?
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Jim D.
Alex, the motivation on the part of the mentally ill criminal is irrelevant. If you have a desire to hurt a lot of people, and a gun is not your thing, a truck will do just fine. Just look at the incidents in New York and Nice, France. 97 people dead between the two of them, and not a shot was fired.
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Helen Sabin
Gary - your logic is lacking. Gnns deaths are very low compared to that of heart disease=600K knives, cars, ladders etc. My GOD - what a stupid statement to make above.
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Christian
No Guns = Death Camps = Ask a Jew.
A disarmed population are no longer citizens, they are a nation held hostage.
World War 2 taught this to all of us, Christian & Jew, Muslim & Athiests, Everyone: STAY ARMED.
NEVER AGAIN
From Pol Pot, to Stalin, to Hitler, etc etc etc...every revolution.
History tells us what happens to those rendered defenseless:
They are rounded up, enslaved, and then slaughtered. EVERY TIME.
Don't think it can happen in USA ? Better check your own history on how 'The West Was Won'.
NEVER AGAIN
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Terri Davis
Angry people without guns can be overtaken and subdued, guns are the issue.
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Jeanie
Mental illness is not to blame. Mental illness is not evil, it’s illness. You sound angry actually and that’s not helpful to anyone.
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Christian
No. You are incorrect. It is not 'mental illness' it is demonic possession. EVIL.
People who are unChurched, who do not follow the God of Love, these unequipped souls easily fall victim to Demonic forces.
That is a more spiritually accurate description than 'mental illness'. Saving money, buying weapons, planning terrorist attacks, and carrying out acts of terrorism requires planning...Planning to willfully, deliberately, commit horrific acts of EVIL.
The Devil's greatest success is to Erase his own existence.
People think EVIL does not exist...
GOOD is the healing light of Love that gives life to all of us.
EVIL is the absence of that good... a vaccuum of darkness... truly demonic. Very sad.Children are no longer taught the Bible, or any faith, or patriotism.
Don't you think we have a duty to teach all our children right from wrong?
DO WHAT IS RIGHT:
LOVE OF GOD LOVE OF FAMILY LOVE OF COUNTRY
Billy Graham spelled it out:
https://youtu.be/U89zkUZPd5w
Jesus message is easy : GOD IS LOVE LOVE IS GOD LOVE LOVE LOVE EVERYONE LOVE YOURSELF.
The whole idea of being a Christian: LIVE AS CHRIST.
What Would Jesus Do?
What DID Jesus Do:
Teach Love, and Heal the World.
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Lauren Sherwood
Thank you!! I completely agree! We need to know all the stories and not just the horrifically tragic! The real story is that our country is sick and is in desperate need of Healing and that Healing comes from the love inside us all! These people wore theirs on their sleeve! Where others, sadly, have gone so far astray and their hearts are buried and/or often twisted! So disconnected from themselves and others! So very Sad!!
While on the subject, all I can think of, over and over again as a Mother, never having been a proponent of violent Video Games, (or any video games for that matter), is why no one is recognizing how it has numbed our youth?? In the video games, and other violent trendy Netflix series, etc, killing is a common occurrence, it seems to me? There are so many factors not being looked at here! Of course it is about the guns, and the mental illness, or call it what you will! To me, it is about a very sick and wounded society that needs to come together and HEAL!! And, sadly, everyone is a victim! :(
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katy wall
Violence in media is just as accessible and even more so in other countries, yet not one has an issue with gun violence like we do.
Words are not going to fix this problem. Action by lawmakers to prevent these killing machines getting in the hands of mentally ill and confused individuals is the only way.
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James
Not law makers. Parents and fathers. Look at the most common issue with these shooters! Bad family life, and no dad to mention. It is all out of order and this is what happens. Sad
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Beth K
There are lots of people who've lost their fathers from accident, disease, and warfare. People have lost their mothers from accident and disease, although not so many in warfare. LOTS of other people have bad family lives for various reasons. Most of those people do not go off and commit mass murder!
Especially with the Gold Star families - children who have lost their fathers in warfare - you are not claiming that all - or even a significant number of them - have gone on to do anything antisocial or criminal.
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Terri Davis
My father died when I was 10. I had people in my life that loved and cared for me. So many children do not have adults that truly care for them this is true. So lets spend tax dollars on programs to help children that suffer the kind of depression that begins in adolescence and use gun control measures to prevent death. How about we embody the nature of Christ by promoting peace through justice?
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Jeanie
HIs Dad was dead. Check the story out so you can contribute.
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Jeanie
I know lots of people from unfortunate backgrounds who never shoot up schools or hurt anyone. Stop making excuses and not addressing the fact that the guns gotta go.
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Helen Sabin
Why do guns gotta go Jeanie? If someone with a gun invades your home what are you going to do? IF someone stops you on the street and holds a knife to your body, what will you do? Hmmmm? If the government says you are a slave to us and we are taking over as in Germany or China or Vietnam etc what will YOU do about it? Please share your thinking.
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James
I'm back bs on your stats. Total bs. Every 40 hours ar 15 shooting? Every 60 hours a mass shooting No way chick. You need to check your source. Try a scientific test How many people do you know k have committed or been involved in a shooting? Because by your state facts everyone would know roughly
5 people a year. Most shootings are handguns,. Not many are ar15 . And it does not Stand for assault rifle. Just about any gun with a clip can hold more that 30 round. With modimodification. Ever went hog hunting. Yeah 30 rounds is common when killing off a herd.-
Beth K
There are roughly 320,000,000 people in the US. Even as many mass shootings as there are, it's less than 1 in a million of a given person to be involved in one in a year. Do you know a million people? Even in 100 years at the present rate, assuming the population does not change, it's 1:10,000 for someone to be involved.
Check your math. I think you slipped a couple of decimal places.
Yes, I knew a teacher who taught at Columbine.
An AR15 is a civilian version of an M-16. Both are semi-automatics. They both send bullets tumbling, for maximum damage when they hit.
The wild hogs which have become a pest were imported from Europe. They're eaten as food in Europe. They have been, and were protected by kings and noblrs in the middle ages, they hired their hunters to bring them back to the castle for feasts, and they dealt harshly with poachers - people killing their wildlife - including wild hogs - without permission. Get out your copy of Grimm's Fairy Tales for details on those hunters.
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Jim D.
bethkz, just to corrections, but worth mentioning.
AR15 are semi-automatic only. M16 is select fire, meaning the shooter can choose semi-auto mode (one pull on the trigger, one bullet leaves the barrel) or 3-round burst mode (one trigger pull, 3 bullets out the barrel). M16s used to have a full auto mode, but it was determined to be inefficient and damaging to the barrel.
Bullets do not tumble. That idea was based on the observations of inexperienced doctors that had no knowledge of ballistics. If the bullet tumbled, it would be wildly inaccurate. What actually happens is called cavitation. When the bullet (which is spinning, not timbling) hits a body, it rapidly loses it's energy. That energy is transferred to the surrounding tissue causing damage. It may look as if the bullet hit all that tissue because of tumbling, but it was the dissipation of the energy that caused the damage.
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Helen Sabin
Thank you for explaining to people who are uneducated about guns and cavitation! You might use the football analogy on how a bullet flies!
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flugo
2Chronicles 7:14 of the Bible gives the answer to our sick and wounded nation. 'If my people will HUMBLE themselves, PRAY. SEEK my face, FORSAKE their wickedness, I will HEAR, FORGIVE sins, HEAL their land.'
God wants to heal our 'land', and has promised to do so. But we Christians (God's people) are NOT keeping our side of the the arrangement.
The laws of God written on the hearts of people, NOT gun laws is a better approach to these weapons' rampages.
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Beth K
These are children who are dying, as well as teachers who tried to protect them as well as teach them.
Does God really want, permit, and even cause these shooters, who, in your terms, do not have God's laws written on their hearts, to murder these innocent people in cold blood, about every other day?
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flugo
Permit, yes.
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Beth K
If I knew that someone was going to a school, and was going to kill a number of children as well as their teachers, I would most certainly do everything in my power to stop it. That might include stealing the would-be shooter's gun(s), notifying the police, notifying the school of what I knew. Depending on how far in advance I knew it, I might take some physical action - including directly attacking the person - to stop the murderer. If I knew and did NOTHING to prevent it, but instead just permitted it to happen, you would call me a monster. How can we hold God to a lesser standard? Instead, God allows this to happen, may take children under the age of reason to heaven. If some of those children had not accepted God, or had a sin for which they had not yet repented, they would go to Hell. The murderer may stand trial, with a good lawyer may be acquitted or will if convicted spends some time in prison. If he then accepts Jesus, he goes to Heaven. Meanwhile, the parents, the other children, their friends, neighbors, and relatives feel the loss for life.
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Jeri
If it was merely a mental health problem then the UK, Canada, and Australia must have almost zero mental health problems. Hmmm...they don't have guns like we do. I'll bet those smart folks sleep a better than we do knowing their country won't go through the grieving and the hypocrisy we do on a regular basis. Let that sink in...on a regular basis. That is disgusting.
No one is saying we are taking away your precious, coveted guns but why can't we talk about what kind of guns should be accessible to the public. Do we really need access to AR15s and the like? The answer is no we don't .
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James
Yes we do. And there are bacb checks on every gun purchase. We can't tell the future. But we can limit our victimization. If every teacher carried and children were respectful and the the world was perfect...... Yeah, can you limit how a person or how many people will attack me and mine. Oh and throw in the time as well. Nope! Just put out the mutual return of the threat is usually enough to hold off any invader. But we can't even keep out illegals with the law enforcement that we have at the moment. So the govt is not the answer. We are. Sweet talk ain't gonna fix it.
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Beth K
Yeah, that's why background checks have had its funding cut under the current budget.
Arming teachers would just mean that the attackers would take out the teachers FIRST. Teachers aren't usually taught shooting or gun safety, unless they were first in the military or were a trained police officer. Heck, there were two armed police officers in that school, and that didn't stop or deter the mass murder. It would make it easier for a shooter: They wouldn't even have to bring their own gun! It certainly would not be difficult to overpower a teacher, untrained in how to handle a gun or store it safely, Plus, the would-be shooter has the element of surprise.
They've also cut funding for school safety. They've also cut the funding for mental health.
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James
Vets as teachers. Every teat each trained to defede. As it should be. Defense is a God givengright.
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Jim D.
"They’ve also cut funding for school safety. They’ve also cut the funding for mental health."
Who are "they?"
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Jeanie
Lies and hate. That’s what you’re spewing. In Florida you can buy any gun anywhere with no registration or background checks. That’s the first thing. Referencing immigrants in any way shape or form in your argument is just hateful and ignorant. You make no reasonable points. You are devisive.
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Jim D.
Jeanie, I don't know where you get your information from, but a background check is absolutely required. To my knowledge, there is no firearm registration in Florida.
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John A Anderson, CD, CIF Mons ON
Where I live in Northern Ontario, Canada, about one house per city block has a rifle in it. Hunting is a way of life, and there is nowhere near the number of shooting deaths. There are some, yes, but the numbers speak for themselves. On average, this ONE incident is a YEAR'S worth of murders here in town (from all sources: beatings, stabbings, guns, etc.) The problem is partially the access to automatics. As a veteran, the only thing an automatic weapon is good for is killing a large number of people in a hurry. They are not stable enough to be useful against anything else, even when mounted. My assigned weapon was the C9 machine gun under most conditions, because I couldn't hit the target with a single shot, and it was the spray and pray weapon, mounted on a support, hopping around with each shot, even though it was firing the same round as an AR15. The other part of the problem is the idea that owning a gun is allowable for everybody. If you want a gun, you can get one, if not in your own state, in the next one. One law across the nation is needed, and some sort of course must be taken before getting one. Mental health problems cannot be blamed for this sort of attitude, as the number of people with problems averages about the same in every population.
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James
Canada? Advice should always come from superiors. That's part of the problem here in America. Everyone from anywhere is an expert. Ha I say. Never saw a gun kill anything, It's only those people that aren't right in the head that do things like that. It's called a reprobate mind. It's just widely spread and not many people can see that fact. Excuses, only excuses. Why not set examples that deter that behavior. Like instant death publicly. Not years waiting if you're convected.
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Jeanie
You’re frightening.
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Jim D.
Oh, John. Where do I start?
You have shooting deaths in northern Ontario? Why? There are only 780,000 people in northern Ontario, an are that is greater than 311,000 square miles. That's like 2.5 people per square mile. The US has approximately 87 people per square mile, and you have to take into account all the "fly-over" area in the middle and Alaska. Northern Ontario doesn't have enough "mass" to have a "mass" shooting.
Civilians and law enforcement in the US do not have automatic weapons. They are only used by the military. The AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle (one trigger pull, one bullet). The military version is the M-16. In it's current configuration, it is a select fire rifle, meaning you can choose between semi-auto (like the AR-15) or 3-round bursts (one trigger pull, 3 bullets). The C9 you referred to is fully automatic only. So it sounds like the only ones doing the "spray and pray" are the Canadian military forces.
Purchasing long arms (rifles and shotguns) out-of-state is possible, but first, you have to pass the background check, and second, the long arm you are purchasing has to be allowed in your state, or the dealer won't sell it to you. Handgun purchases are not allowed out of state. However, a handgun can be shipped from a dealer in one state to a dealer in your home state, and then you do the background check with your local dealer.
A note to everyone on this site: It would be nice if you all could check your "facts" before spouting off on the subject. It would go a long way to tone down the rhetoric and get to the heart of the matter. Thank you.
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flugo
Let's cut the crap about gun control. FIVE times more people were killed in 2016 in the US with KNIVES than with long guns. 'KNIFE CONTROL'? ELEVEN times more people were killed in 2016 in the US with automobiles than with long guns. 'CAR CONTROL'?
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Steve W.
I publicly shared this facebook post today; i await the death threats.
"Let's take a moment to honor the sacrifice of our brave school children who, daily, lay down their lives to protect our right to bear arms."
Thanks for your service, kids (screaming in anguish).
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flugo
Steve, what empty-headed hogwash you vomit! ". . . . sacrifice of our brave school children who, daily, lay down their lives to protect our right to bear arms." What a bunch of crap! 'daily lay down their lives' . . . , 'sacrifice of our brave school children . . . , 'protect our right to bear arms'. Steve: name and address of a single school kid who daily, sacrificially lays down his life to protect our right to bear arms. Pull your head out!
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Steve W.
Did you read the whole post Bob? I apologize -- I thought everyone here would recognize sarcastic irony.
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Linda Happenny
This was premeditated homicide! This kid bought a gun just before the shooting. Most mental health people do not plan anything because their brains are scramble to where they can't think clearly. If you had listened to the surviving. kids, they will tell you that he was planning the shooting and knew him. And yes he was a little off. I know because I live in Broward County in Florida and live about 20 mi. away. from the school. This was to close to home.
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James
Planning to do that is the definition of mentally illness. Just saying.
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Jim D.
No, planning to do that is premeditation.
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Christian
Full scale military attacks are not mental illness, it is terrorism.
Mental illness can block the ability to plan ahead. Saving up funds, buying equipment, guns, & ammo, planning a terrorist attack, then carrying out said attack. that is a lot of pre-planning put into action.
Mental illness often leads to homelessness, poverty, & unemployment - exactly because those individuals with damaged brains can not plan and manage day to day life the same way a full minded person can.
Call EVIL what it is, EVIL. Call SIN what it is, SIN.
WHAT IS EVIL ? That which causes harm or even fails to do good.
WHAT IS GOOD? Everything that is healing, helpful, kind, and growing.
What is SIN ? Anything that is not good and helpful, but causes harm & suffering.
When an individual makes the informed mental choice to create harmful suffering, that is a choice to SERVE EVIL.
These 'old ideas' of GOOD vs. EVIL are still true today as the first day people created the words.
Is deciding to create evil mental illness ?
Maybe, but it is a FREE WILL Choice, just the Wrong choice. A mental error, at best.You may make the choice to help animals at the shelter or make the choice to rob a gas station.
At some point people must accept personal responsibility for their actions.
People with brain damage or mental illness generally lack the ability to plan acts of terrorism.
Sometimes they lack the ability to dress themselves properly or use a bus pass to ride public transportation.
For all the REAL patients who suffer mental damage, they should not be disrespected and lumped together with EVIL people who have full intention to create harm and suffering.
Grouping victims of brain damage along with EVIL people is harmful to those patients.
Please do not harm people already suffering so much loss in their loves.
Face the Truth: Some people serve Evil, and do not wish to do Good.
Make the Smart Choice: Do Good, avoid Evil.
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Linda Happenny
Let me be clear this was not a mental illness homicide. It was planned with malice. He was back for revenge. He was kicked out of the school for violent behavior.
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James
Let's be clear. Mental illness doesn't mean insanity plead. It mean that this person was evil, did evil acts, and thought they were the right thing. Exterminate him for sure, yes it was out of malice, and yes to think a to act as he did is insane. We shouldn't split hairs and give exexcus. We should act and I mean hours. A fair trial if necessary but he confessed. Instant public execution. Live on every channel. Read the charges, confirm the confession, and drop the blade.
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Jim D.
Yes, James, let's be clear. His actions are not a diagnosis for mental illness, so stop saying it. I'm not saying he's not mentally ill. I'm just saying his actions are not proof of mental illness. They are proof of premeditated murder. That's it. Don't go any further. You're not a psychiatrist, and neither am I. I know you're not because if you were, you would not have proposed your "diagnosis" based on events of a crime.
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Linda Happenny
They are talking about a plea deal which the death penalty will not enter the courts. They are prob. seeking the insanity plea. He'll go to the state hospital prison. Evil...hmm...Yeah that's true. BTW I was not giving excuses for his actions..
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rabbi jim
I've stated this many times, ' give someone a gun, and they will use it, eventually ' How many more deaths from gun slayings have to happen before our government will wake up? rabbi jim
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Christian
Incorrect.
TENS OF THOUSANDS of soldiers of many countries have been deployed through Iraq & Afghanistan, and the great majority of them never fired a single shot.
Rules of Engagement.
And they all had M-4s, M-16s, or larger weapons and full weapon systems.
Never used.
So your statement is untrue.
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Ron
There have already been over 4000 deaths this year caused by drunk drivers. Maybe we could stop drunk driving deaths by taking cars away from responsible and safe drivers. After all, you anti gun people think you can stop murders by taking guns away from responsible and safe gun owners.
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Steve W.
Checkov's gun. Well said Rabbi.
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Jim D.
Steve, I think you are taking the principle of Chekhov's gun too literally.
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Steve W.
It would actually be the inverse corollary: Chekhov didn't want a gun in the scent if it wasn't going to be used. The corollary is if there is a gun in the scene, it will be used.
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Jim D.
Chekhov didn't want a gun in a scene if it wasn't going to be used, but he did not restrict the definition of it's use. In terms of one if his plays, the use of the gun could simply be as a reference to a time prior to the timeline in the play. For example, the dialogue may include two characters in the play that refer to a gun on a wall and say, "Hey, Jethro, remember when Pa shot that big ole' bear with that rifle." And Jethro says, "yeah, too bad Ma was standing right behind the bear when he shot it."
Was the rifle used in the play? Yes, as a mechanism to move the story along.
Now, as for a citizen legally owning an AR-15, if a homeowner encounters a criminal breaking into his house, and the criminal sees the homeowner with his AR-15 pointed right at him, and the criminal runs away, was the AR-15 used? Yes, it was. It deterred a crime by it's very presence in the hands of it's legal owner, and it protected the homeowner from physical harm. Was it fired? No, because it wasn't necessary. It did the job without firing a shot. Do you have a problem with that?
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James
I disagree completely. By the same token you could give someone a book and they'd read it. You know that don't happen either.
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Terri Davis
Actually it does happen, every book I've given has been read. Even books people struggled with, they still read them. Everyone has an interest. It is the reason I've never bought a gun. Each time I think I might want to purchase one, I go through sencarios in my head and can't come up with a reason to use it, so at 59 I still don't own one.
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Jim D.
Terri, is protecting your life and the life of a loved one a good enough reason? If not, you must not think much of yourself or your family. Or perhaps you are rich and famous and have armed security at your beck and call. That works too.
Carrying a gun is like keeping a spare tire in the trunk of your car. You always have it with you in case you need it, but you hope you can get through life without having to use it.
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Frank White
8And Cain said to Abel his brother, "Let us go out to the field," and when they were in the field Cain rose against Abel his brother and killed him. 9And the Lord said to Cain, "Where is Abel your brother? And he said, "I do not know: am I my brother's keeper?" 10And He said, "What have you done? Listen! your brother's blood cries out to me from the soil. 11And so, cursed shall you be by the soil that gaped with its mouth to take your brother's blood from your hand. 12If you till the soil, it will no longer give you strength. A restless wanderer shall you be on the earth."
This is the first murderer, and later on his descendant Lamech killed a man with the first usage of weapons. It started here and simply evolved. We can argue which weapon we have to ban, another will rise to take it's place. Sure we need to strengthen our current regulations to keep firearms out of the hands of the antisocial and criminally motivated but the true issue is with the heart of man! All else is simply an extension of this source issue.
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James
Agreed
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Alex A
It is ALL about the choice of weapons which is available so it follows if you remove the availability of longer range weapons which can kill large numbers with no personal contact this kind of thing can't happen.
Here in the UK we do have issues with weapons in schools occassionally. The worse scenarios are with knives and that tends to be between two people, because you have to be up close and personal.
If weapons that can kill large numbers of people are available in your society, then sooner or later the wrong people will get access and use them to kill innnocents.
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Herb
Florida school shooting was a staged False flag in an attempt to steal our gun rights. It was as fake as Vegas. Stand your ground and be ready to fight to the death against tyrants to protect your rights.
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Steve W.
And your proof of that is where?
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Steve W.
And the Tampa Bay Times article about the conspiracy theory you mention and the aide who was fired for spreading it is here: http://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2018/02/20/parkland-students-come-under-attack-for-their-outspokenness/?wpmm=1&wpisrc=nl_daily202
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Jeanie
I don’t think he or it should be engaged with. You obviously know that he’s lying and/or possibly mentally ill.
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Jeanie
You’re a fake troll. Or mentally disturbed. Either way, get help.
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Kerrie Walker
One of the things we need to remember is that change does not occur overnight. Meaningful change comes in increments. At one time, we didn't have to wear seat belts nor did children need to be in car seats, but now they do. It isn't perfect, but we are getting better every day. One very simple solution would be that every gun owner must be licensed and insured. Similar to what we have to to to drive our cars. We pass a test to show we can responsibly operate the vehicle and renew as required. Why wouldn't a gun owner need to prove they could responsibly handle a weapon? We have to have insurance for our cars in case we hurt another or damage property while driving. Why not insure gun owners in this way as well? It would solve every issue, but we must DO something!
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Christian
Love One Another.
Listen.
Care.
Heal.
Laws can't save us.
Only Love can save us.
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Kerrie Walker
*would not solve every issue, sorry!
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James
Best place to live in the world! We are spoiled. Hundreds of children are killed everyday in other places, starve to death, gutted, diseases, worked to death. So tell again how bad we have it.... Less thant 0.001% a year might not be acceptable to people directly involved, yet better than 100s everyday. Just like safety regulations. Reality has to be part of the equation. How good is good enough if it's your chilc or family, it is never good enough. That's why we vote to make laws and amendments. Emotions are dangerous and cause bad decisions to be made. With 300million guns in America and 340 million people, how many go crazy and shoot people? Not many if you look at the whole picture Don't get lost in the details and the propaganda. Try to live peacefully but prepare to defend what is yours.
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flugo
Bravo!
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Jim D.
James, you are spot on. Thank you for putting it so succinctly. And the best way we can make our nation better is to get involved so that we can preserve our way of life, not change it at the sacrifice of our rights. If everyone just took a moment to step up and get involved when we see someone like this kid going off the rails, a lot of these tragedies could be avoided. I realize the FBI was called with information on this kid, and they dropped the ball. But honestly, everyone dropped the ball. Why didn't more people reach out to this kid, to help set him on the right path, or at least get him some help? Law enforcement didn't do it, but that doesn't mean we all just stop trying. Get him in front of a doctor, a preacher, anyone who will listen. We all need to try harder.
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Steve W.
Today's edition of "Is it still too early to talk about solving the gun problem?"
The attached was my tally through the Benton KY shooting. Now we can add another noteworthy shooting in Parkland FL, where 17 are dead and 15 wounded. I say noteworthy, because there have been 30 shootings where 4 or more people were killed or wounded in 2018 so far -- that's how the Gun Violence Archive defines mass shootings. But we know that a mere 4 killed would only be local news; we have become so desensitized. But it's a total of 58 dead, 124 wounded in mass shooting events so far this year. #NotTooEarly
On 14 December, 2012, Adam Lanza shot 20 children aged 6 and 7, and 6 adults, at the Sandy Hook Elementary School. At the time, many of our legislators (national and state) pushed back against the anguished cries to solve this problem by saying it was "too early for that conversation" and that we should grieve and honor the dead and their survivors.
WE HAVE BEEN GRIEVING THOSE DEAD CHILDREN FOR 1,888 DAYS NOW!! It is all I can do to resist the urge to break out in some extremely foul language and hurl vicious insults at the people we have elected to represent our interests. THANK GOODNESS THEY ARE KEEPING THE NRA SAFE!! #NotTooEarly
To the members of the House of REPRESENTATIVES and the Senate, I have one request -- or maybe it's a demand: GET OFF YOUR LAZY, BOUGHT AND PAID FOR, ASSES AND DO SOMETHING!! It really isn't rocket science, folks. I'm not advocating collecting everyone's guns, just some common sense control over this public health threat. How about we start the conversation with these pillars:
- Universal background checks with meaningful enforcement of national guidance/standards for gun ownership (like with cars).
- Mandatory supervised firearm training with a requirement for periodic retraining (like a driver's license).
- Removal of restrictions on gun violence record keeping (like with cars).
- Registration of all weapons (like cars).
- Mandatory liability insurance for every weapon (like cars).
Personally I would add that we should classify all weapons as hunting, self defense, weapons of war, and weapons of mass destruction. Eventually I would establish a buyback program for the latter two, perhaps 5 years, after which possession of a felony. But that will surely be a stretch goal, not something that could be done until gun owners and Second Amendment advocates are confident that we aren't coming after their right to own a gun. #NotTooEarly
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Jim D.
Oh, here we go again. I'm sure I've already said this in previous posts, but I'll do it again until it sinks in.
The problem is not guns. The problem is a mental health crisis. There are millions of law-abiding gun owners in this country that should not have to pay the price for every criminal's activity and every failure by law enforcement and mental health industry.
As for your "pillars"... 1. Universal background checks are fine as long as they don't include a registry. (More on that later.) 2. Mandatory training is fine as long as the cost is free, or at least extremely low. If you attach too high a price to firearm ownership, an entire class of people, namely low-income, will be denied their rights. 3. I am not familiar with any restrictions on keeping records of criminal acts committed with firearms. Perhaps you can clarify. 4. Registration of all weapons is out of the question. I'll explain why in a minute. 5. For the same reason as in the second pillar, if it costs money and prevents someone from owning a firearm, that is a violation of rights.
I need to point out a gigantic contradiction in your post. You said, "I’m not advocating collecting everyone’s guns..." and then toward the end you said, "Eventually I would establish a buyback program for the latter two [weapons of war and weapons of mass destruction], perhaps 5 years, after which possession of a felony." Either you don't want to confiscate our legally owned guns, or you don't. Make up your mind, please. And who decides what the definition is of a weapon of war or mass destruction? Weapons of mass destruction are bombs and missiles. Last time I checked, civilians aren't allowed to own those. Weapons of war? I'm sure you're thinking AR-15, aren't you? Well, you're wrong. The AR-15 is a civilian rifle. They are not issued to any military personnel. The military gets M-16s, which civilians cannot own.
And finally, we get to the issue of a gun registry. Do you know how every other nation that accomplished the confiscation of everyone's weapons? They started with a gun registry. Hitler did it. Pol Pot did it. Canada and Australia both did it (although Canada's was a complete failure). Once you register your guns, you can count on the government knocking on your door one day demanding you hand them over. Not gonna happen.
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Steve W.
Jim, it looks like we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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Jim D.
That's fine, Steve. At least we can agree on something. Thanks for your comments.
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Christian
The problem is Evil, the evil of men and the demonic possession of the unChurched.
JESUS SAVES.
Generally speaking, if you Love LOVE with all your heart, all your mind, all your strength & soul, love yourself, and love all others - you will spread happiness and joy.
So REJECT EVIL STOP SINNING and Love Love Love.
The Answer is :
LOVE ONE ANOTHER
Now, what is the question?
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Jeff Coxen
A very sad tragedy no matter how you look at it. As a father, grandfather, and gun owner, I was wondering how this article would be written. Media has a way of not being the way it should be. I absolutely Love how you focused on the positive and innocent PEOPLE involved. My heart and prayers go out to so many. Well written, Thank you!
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Jim D.
Well said, Jeff. Thank you.
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Rev Troy McLean
The solution to the problem is simple. We must restore God back into the schools, reestablish discipline to the parents and teachers. Until this is reestablish, schools hire military veterans as armed services to protect our children and educators. Then also restore what is supposed to be taught to them to ensure that they are ready for adulthood.
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Jim D.
Um, no, Rev. That's not the answer. Two church shootings (S. Carolina and Texas), and God didn't do diddly squat.
Fix mental health crisis and support law enforcement. That's the ticket.
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Gene
I'm guessing you're a cop jim or maybe not. Don't know, don't care. What's your solution to these mass shootings? Should we have armed veterans? They could have PTSD. Should we arm teachers & maybe even students? With this last shooting THE COPS DROPPED THE BALL. Because of cops with this last shooting 17 people died. When cops don't listen, this is what happens. This shooter may or may not have been mentally ill. Some of these past shooters weren't mentally ill. Some were extremists, all of these mass shooters had two things in common. They all had violent tendencies &/or a history of violence. The other, they all had access to guns. Do you think they all should've had that kind of access? It sounds like you do. Running people down with a vehicle with an intent on killing others isn't as common as you may or may not say it is. I've seen your comments & you contradict yourself every time. You sound confused & you have no. real. solutions. Another thing, ALL children should be protected no matter the circumstances. Not just conservative "jurisdictions". You whole heartedly agreed with that comment. If you're OK with ANY child not being protected because the parents may be in a "liberal jurisdiction", there is something extremely wrong with you and bill. Not protecting children because you disagree with differing politics sounds almost like a threat. If you are a cop & you think that way, you're in the wrong business. You & bill don't get to decide what kid lives & what kid doesn't. ALL children are Gods children no matter how you think. You & bill would let kids die because they're parents don't politically agree with us & I'm the ass?? I'm a conservative, but I don't feel people deserve to die because they don't agree, or look like, or pray like me.
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Jim D.
Gene, I am not in law enforcement and never have been. I'm not sure what I said that led you to think that, but that's not important. I will attempt to address your rambling as succinctly as I can.
We agree that law enforcement (local police and FBI) dropped the ball on this one... BIG TIME. I would also submit that school district staff and mental health professionals also share some of the responsibility.
Within four months of each other there were two attacks by truck; one in Nice, France, and one in New York. 97 people were killed. That's almost six times the devastation of this school shooting, and you want to argue the efficacy of using motor vehicles as weapons?
I never once suggested using veterans or people suffering with PTSD as security. Thos were your words, not mine. I am in favor of armed security at schools. If they happen to include veterans and teachers, that's fine. Obviously anyone with a mental or emotional disorder would not be eligible. And since you have to be 21 years old to own and carry a handgun, that leaves students out.
You say I contradict myself all the time, yet you give no examples. Lame!
Neither Bill nor I advocated for not having security in schools in liberal jurisdictions. If you read his post correctly, he commented that we have security in places like government buildings (except schools) and at athletic events, but we DO NOT... read carefully... DO NOT protect public schools in liberal jurisdictions. DO NOT, Gene. As in, NOT CURRENTLY. He did not say we SHOULD NOT, as in a choice we make in the future. Bill phrased it that way because public schools in jurisdictions with a more reasonable attitude towards firearms do have armed security. In fact, there are schools where teachers are allowed to carry if they want to and are trained.
You, Gene, and you alone advocated for not providing protection for schools in liberal jurisdictions because you said, and I quote, "Nobody cares about those hippy kids anyway."
And no, Gene. You are not an ass. You have graduated to DUMB ASS!
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Jim D.
Gene, I am not in law enforcement and never have been. I’m not sure what I said that led you to think that, but that’s not important. I will attempt to address your rambling as succinctly as I can.
We agree that law enforcement (local police and FBI) dropped the ball on this one… BIG TIME. I would also submit that school district staff and mental health professionals also share some of the responsibility.
Within four months of each other there were two attacks by truck; one in Nice, France, and one in New York. 97 people were killed. That’s almost six times the devastation of this school shooting, and you want to argue the efficacy of using motor vehicles as weapons?
I never once suggested using veterans or people suffering with PTSD as security. Thos were your words, not mine. I am in favor of armed security at schools. If they happen to include veterans and teachers, that’s fine. Obviously anyone with a mental or emotional disorder would not be eligible. And since you have to be 21 years old to own and carry a handgun, that leaves students out.
You say I contradict myself all the time, yet you give no examples. Lame!
Neither Bill nor I advocated for not having security in schools in liberal jurisdictions. If you read his post correctly, he commented that we have security in places like government buildings (except schools) and at athletic events, but we DO NOT… read carefully… DO NOT protect public schools in liberal jurisdictions. DO NOT, Gene. As in, NOT CURRENTLY. He did not say we SHOULD NOT, as in a choice we make in the future. Bill phrased it that way because public schools in jurisdictions with a more reasonable attitude towards firearms do have armed security. In fact, there are schools where teachers are allowed to carry if they want to and are trained.
You, Gene, and you alone advocated for not providing protection for schools in liberal jurisdictions because you said, and I quote, “Nobody cares about those hippy kids anyway.” That's not a very Christian attitude, is it?
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Jim D.
Gene, I reread my post, and I want to apologize for calling you names. It's stupid and childish, and it does not serve to support my point of view. I guess I was just cranky when I wrote that, which is not an excuse, just my own self reflection. I still don't agree with most of what you wrote, and I stand by the rest of what I posted. But you don't deserve to be disrespected, and for that, I apologize.
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Gene
What if the veterans have PTSD Rev? Should we pray the PTSD away & leave it in Gods hands? I think that would be best. Teachers & parents should be able to beat he evil out of unruly kids. Arming children with a bible, the love of our Lord savior & a loaded hand gun too would be nice.
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Terri Davis
Rev McLean, God goes with us everywhere we go, God is not absent from schools. The goal of discipline is to teach, instruct and lead so children can grow within society's boundaries, the goal is not to use violence to control behavior.
Counselors are in schools to help teachers, but schools often use them for silly things, like lunch room babysitting instead of allowing them to be accessible to students. That does need to change. We don't need armies protecting our schools, we need society to build an acceptable moral environment for people to function. Which means access to emotional and physical healthcare for everyone, supporting extra-curricular activities for children to have good role models and an outlet to enrich creativity.-
Rev Troy McLean
It is true that God goes with us, but when it is illegal to express it in fear of offendding others, does keep him hidden from the ones that need him the most. As for discipline, you do not coddle them. The true love comes from correction. Children need to be taught that actions have rewards and consequence. They are not born with knowledge of good or evil but will if unchecked gravitate towards evil. Why is it always fine to give praise to our vets as long as they do it offshore. These people have more understanding of the evil and love for America's children.
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Christian
It is the Bible that was BANNED from USA Schools, and these shootings are what we git in return.
BAN THE BIBLE BAN !
DEFIANTLY BRING BIBLES TO SCHOOL.
IN Honor of the Florida Fallen:
BAN THE BIBLE BAN !
I Say to You:
EVERY STUDENT BRING THEIR BIBLE TO SCHOOL EVERY DAY IN MARCH.
Faith, Hope, & Love.
JESUS SAVES.
Turn Study Hall into PRAYER HALL.
I dare any teacher or principle to give detention or suspension to students for Prayer.
DEFIANCE : if your government BANS your religion, replace your government officials and keep your prayer in school.
Do not follow the ways of the Atheists : these shootings are the evil caused by lack of love and lack of Jesus.
Annoy Satan : Play Christian Music, and GIVE THANKS TO GOD
Give Thanks for Love ! Give Thanks for Creation ! Give Thanks for Family ! Give Thanks for School ! Give Thanks for America ! Give Thanks for Gratitude ! Give Thanks for Kindness ! Give Thanks for Suffering ! Give Thanks for Healing ! Give Thanks for Jesus !
https://youtu.be/huFra1mnIVE
LOVE GOD AND BAN THE BIBLE BAN !
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Bill Fox
Bag inspection, magnetic frisking, locked steel doors with no windows at ground level, armed administrators teachers or resource officers would have prevented every school shooting, including Columbine. We protect government buildings other than schools, athletic events, and depositories of high value property. But we don't protect public schools in liberal jurisdictions.
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Gene
Agreed bill! Nobody cares about those hippy kids anyway. Conservative children come from better stock & they should be protected at all costs.
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Jim D.
Gene, Bill made a good point. Don't be an ass.
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Gene
Jim I was agreeing with bill. Did you not see my comment? Did you not comprehend? You also agreed with his comment. "But we don't protect public schools in liberal jurisdictions." I was just emphasizing on what he actually meant. What did you think he meant jim? I thought you'd be one of the first people to agree with me. By the last reply sent me, I'm guessing you don't like my ideas jim.
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Jim D.
C'mon, Gene. "Nobody cares about those hippy kids anyway"? "Conservative children come from better stock"? That's just a s#!t thing to say, and you know it. If you really feel that way, you don't really belong on this forum, and you don't appreciate what it stands for. Bill didn't say anything about what kind of kids or families deserve protection. They all do. Your comments are ignorant and insensitive.
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Gene
I think it's time to start arming children too. Starting the age of five. I'm scared these liberal kids will start protesting against our gun rights & we need to be armed & ready for our enemies.
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Jim D.
Too late.
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Gene
I think all schools should be military/ Christian schools with a mandatory three hours of bible studies & weapons training everyday. Arm all the children with hand guns when they turn five, then when they turn 10 teach them how to use an assault rifle. With God in their hearts & guns in their hands nothing like this will ever happen again. Guns aren't dangerous, not even in childrens hands. They're even safe enough to sleep with too. Violence, in this instance, is always the answer.
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Jim D.
And it's not getting any better.
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Christian
EVERY Airport in USA has security guards, metal detectors, and Controlled Points of Entry.
Banks have armed security guards too, to protect Slips of Paper...
So why can anyone off the street walk right into a school, no security, no metal detectors, no guards, no protection ?!?
Rule #1 on security: There is No security without Physical Security.
Locked Doors, controlled & monitored entry points, video recording, & panic buttons.
Soft Targets invite attack because of the perceived weakness...
The ongoing terrorist attacks gets to the very core of the teachings of Jesus:
God is Love. Love Everyone. Love Yourself. Faith in Loving Kindness heals divisions, cures the sick, feeds the hungry, protects all families.
Peace is found in our hearts, and for protecting our children, they deserve the same protection as banks and airports.
It's time to defend our schools just the same as we defend our planes.
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Christian
Bibles are banned in schools and it is illegal to pray - Time to reconsider raising children with no knowledge of the gods, loving kindness, inner peace, and to value life & compassion.
All religions should be revuewed in schools. Every prophet & Holy Book has it's message.
The Gospel of Jesus is real simple, three words : GOD IS LOVE. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U89zkUZPd5w
Can you imagine a world where all people could love one another, as one big family ? Jesus did. And we are all human, relatives of each other just a few generations apart... so it is sound science... brothers & sisters everyone. Earth is a small planet, and we are a young species.
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Rev Troy McLean
Jim, for one thing God did do something. In SC, he drew all of the churches in Charleston closer together. And in Texas, a private citizen took up his arms, with nothing else but his blue jeans and stopped the attack. He could have done like you would and await for the police to show up and stop it. Say instead of a gun in either church, he attacked with a bomb, knife, or axe would that have made it less evil. No, I think not. It is not always mental illness, sometimes they just don't give a damn about others.
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Gene
More guns is the answer. Everyone should own a gun, especially children. You never know when the devil will show up & kill us all. Assault rifles are a must in schools, churches, etc. We need to be armed & ready for Gods enemies.
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Rev Troy McLean
Gene, in response to your ludicrous statement of PTSD. Do you realize that there are plenty of vets that do not have it, more than enough to handle the job. PTSD(Post Traumatic stress disorder), only make up a very small percentage of them. Most of those that have it have it well maintained, thur medication and counseling. I know because I am one.
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Jim D.
Said no one... ever.
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Jim D.
Rev., if that's what God did, then he was a day late and about a ba-zillion dollars short. God didn't bring them together in South Carolina. They got together on their own in the wake of a tragedy. Too bad God didn't do something BEFORE the guy shot those people in the church.
As far as I would have done, you have no idea. You don't know me, and your comment is completely and utterly asinine.
Gun, bomb, knife, axe,... whatever! It doesn't matter what tool is used. Anyone with a desire to kill innocent people and the willingness to carry out such an act is mentally and/or emotionally disturbed. Can you name someone that wants to kill and is willing to do it that ISN"T mentally or emotionally disturbed?
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Rev Troy McLean
Jim, I live in South Carolina. Was born in Charleston. I know the people here a bit better then you probably do. God is in everything, and how we respond to the evil actions in our world shows how much you believe he is present. I never said anything contradictory to the fact that someone that carries out these kind of acts is not mentally ill and need help. But when the people responsible to alert the authorities, and they purposely neglect their duties this is what the rest of us have to deal with. You have a right to your opinion, it doesn't mean anyone has to agree with you, no matter how rude you get. Have a blessed evening.
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Jim D.
Rev. Troy, I don't doubt you are more familiar with Charleston and its people. I have been to Charleston many times and know several people there. Beautiful place. Nice people. But having said all that does not have anything to do with the topic at hand. You can believe what you want about God's role in all our lives. I have my own way of looking at it that is quite different from yours.
You said, "I never said anything contradictory to the fact that someone that carries out these kind of acts is not mentally ill..." But in a previous post you said, "It is not always mental illness, sometimes they just don’t give a damn about others." So which is it, Rev.?
And if I come off as rude, I apologize. I'm not going for rude, but I am blunt and rely on the facts. It's just that it is so incredibly frustrating to read all the posts and wonder how some people reach their conclusions. So many people blame guns but not the person that pulls the trigger. They want to compromise our rights and change this country from the one in which I grew up into something that resembles some socialist nation full of dependent weenies. We live in the greatest nation on the planet, bar none. Do we need help? Absolutely. There is a mental health crisis, a drug crisis, a poverty crisis, and probably a few other crises. Banning guns is not the answer. Praying is not the answer (although if it makes you feel better, be my guest).
People getting involved is the only answer that has the potential to do any good. And for the record, getting involved does not mean protesting. That's just an annoying waste of time. Getting involved means getting out there and actually helping people. Wouldn't it have been so much better if someone got out there and helped this 19-year-old kid so he didn't feel like shooting up a school was his only choice?
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Ron
Say what you want about seperation of church and state as well as prayer in schools, but I dont recall hearing of mass school shooting prior to 1962.
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Phil
No one needs a gun. I am 64 and have never needed a gun for self protection . The NRA tells lies on how everyone should own gun for self protection because it is so dangerous in the US But you are more likely to die in a car crash than get shot by a gun. As a Minister I follow Jesus' example. He never owned a weapon and turned his cheek when confronted Bottom line as Ministers we should follow Jesus and love your fellow man and woman God Bless each and everyone of you.
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Christian
In Honor of the Florida Fallen,
BAN THE BIBLE BAN.
Certain members of our government stripped our children naked of the Armor of God, Censored the Loving Words of Jesus, left them defenseless, when every child should be armed with the Sword of Truth.
Annoy Evil, play Christian Music :
https://youtu.be/huFra1mnIVE
LOVE HEALS JESUS SAVES Faith, Hope, and Love.
And the greatest power on Earth is Love
So, join the Movement, tell all school children to TAKE BACK OUR SCHOOLS
Bring your Bible to School EVERY DAY IN MARCH.
GOD HIMSELF WILL TAKE BACK OUR SCHOOLS !
BAN THE BIBLE BAN
Turn Study Hall into Prayer Hall
Pray and Give Thanks for Love Give Thanks for Family Give Thanks for Friends Give Thanks for Schools Give Thanks for Homework Give Thanks for Gratitude Give Thanks for Suffering Give Thanks for Healing Give Thanks for Kindness Give Thanks for Jesus
BAN THE BIBLE BAN
Take back Our Schools.
The Silent Christian Majority will SHOUT !
JESUS SAVES
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Ian Shaw
I am an Australian. In World War One and Two. Our men were the best shots in the world. They were born and bred in country Before going to war, they survived and ate by shooting. None of them had more than single shot rifles, possibly with a magazine. I previously owned a semi automatic rifle. Our laws changed and semi automatic weapons were banned except for in some circumstances where professional shooters were killing introduced pest animals.
Anyone needing a semi automatic weapon should fit these circumstances.
No one in a city, without these conditions, needs a gun that fires round after round.
Our Government offered a scheme to buy all our semi automatic guns from out of the community and the price paid per gun was fair.
Anyone who handed in a gun received enough to buy a new rifle.
I have been a shooter/hunter since 1968 and held a license since 1972.
Anyone who can't kill their prey with one shot, sometimes two doesn't deserve to have a gun. They are amateurs with no idea except feeling "I'm big look at me".
I completely understand USA laws of Self Protection and ownership of weapons but my message doesn't change. FEW need the weapons you allow to be bought.
God Bless All of You AND Billy Graham
Reverend Ian
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Jim D.
Rev. Ian, I appreciate your comments regarding firearms in Australia as compared to the US. There are a few more comparisons that I think should also be made.
Australia and the Continental United States are almost the same size. However the population of the US is over thirteen times that of Australia. The more people you have in a given space, the more problems you have, and the greater the drain you have on your resources.
Australia is an island nation, and as such, all borders are on the ocean. To my knowledge, Australia does not have a problem with illegal immigration.
Australia may have a ban on firearms, but it also uses a merit based immigration system. The US does not ban firearms and has a lottery based immigration system. So where Australia keeps it's citizens (or subjects) disarmed, it only allows people that meet a list of criteria to enter the country. That criteria includes the following:
- you must be under 45 years old
- you must speak, read and write English
- you must nominate a skilled occupation that fits your skills and qualification
- you must submit to a skills assessment to the Australian assessing authority
- you must submit to a medical exam to determine you are in reasonably good health
- you must submit to a character assessment to determine if you are of good character
Admittedly, I am unfamiliar with drug problems in Australia. Perhaps you can enlighten us all on that. In the US, we have been fighting the drug war for decades, unsuccessfully, I might add, and this war has fueled gangs and drug cartels to the point that I don't know if law enforcement is up to the task. Armed gangs have become more pervasive in our cities than ever before, and they are branching out into smaller cities and even suburbs. All the gun laws in the world will not change that. Their guns are acquired illegally. The only people affected by gun laws are law-abiding citizens. We have states in our nation where citizens, who wouldn't think of breaking the law, cannot acquire a firearm to protect themselves from violence. It's not fair, and it's not right.
Now, if we had a stronger southern border, one that could stop the flow of drugs from entering our country, that would help. (We don't seem to have the same problem with our northern border.) It could also stem the tide of illegal immigration. I know, there are many illegal immigrants that are not involved in criminal activity. They just want a chance to come to a better country. I feel for them, I really do. And I wouldn't have a problem with them coming here if they could measure up to the same criteria that Australia has established for entrance into its borders. I would even be in favor of helping nations like Mexico to improve their situation in an effort to get Mexicans to want to stay in Mexico. (Doesn't the president of Mexico wonder why so many of his people want to leave? I would find that disturbing.)
You mention hunting. The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with hunting.
Ian, I hear your message, and I can appreciate the idea of love and kindness and turning the other cheek. But when it comes to the criminal element, turning the other cheek results in two black eyes. The love and kindness you speak of must take the form of actively removing people that have been identified as being potentially dangerous, like the young man in Florida that just killed 17 people, and get him the help he needs, whether he wants it or not.
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Ian Shaw
God bless Jim.
Australia is far from from drug free. We accept immigrants of any age and health under our laws. Our Government is ruthless on people attempting to seek asylum coming by boat and detains them offshore in detention centers.
I understand your weapons problem and the enormity of removing semi automatic weapons. It will take years and years.
Since the toughening our firearms laws there are many illegal weapons still about. I am only pointing out that you have to start somewhere.
We haven't had a mass shooting since the laws were changed in 1996.
Reverend Ian
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Ian Shaw
By the way Jim. You don't have to speak read, write English. You don't need a skill or skill assessment. There is nothing wrong with reasonable health as our health system is free. Good character assessment is provided you have not been incarcerated for bad crimes such as murder, rape etc. or a period of more than two years. I don't hear much about Americans lining up on the border a using the semi automatic weapons to shoot Mexicans and immigrants.
God bless
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Jim D.
Rev., I stand corrected. The information I found is from the Australian visa bureau. The criteria I cited is to get a visa. To become a citizen in Australia, you have to meet all these requirements to get a resident visa and maintain it for at least four years. The criteria to become a citizen includes a 20-question test that is only given in English, so if you don't know English, you're not getting in. You must pass with a score of at least 75% (which I think is quite generous). Look here: http://www.visabureau.com/australia/australian-citizenship.aspx
The reason for the reasonable health requirement is that sick people are a huge drain on resources. So if you are sick, you are not welcome in Australia. That's okay. Come to America. We don't deny anybody. Just win the immigration lottery.
If all you got out of what I said is "Americans lining up on the border a using the semi automatic weapons to shoot Mexicans and immigrants," you really didn't get it, and you're just being ridiculous. The responsibility of border security is that of the government. It would not only be inappropriate for citizens to line up on the borders to shoot people, it is illegal.
The right to defend oneself allows a citizen to use a firearm to protect him/herself, family and home from an attacker(s).
Look, Ian, you don't like semi-autos and don't think you need them, fine. Then don't get one and don't fight to change your draconian gun control laws. That's your choice, and it's not for me or anyone else to tell you different. But by the same token, don't tell us Americans how we should get rid of our guns and follow your example. In my opinion you're example sucks, but I'm glad it works for you.
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Ian Shaw
Wow, you well armed people. I have since learnt this school had an armed security guard who didn't enter the building where you're children were being killed.
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Jim D.
Yes, I heard that on the news last night. Again, another failure of law enforcement to take the appropriate action. The responsibility of this tragedy falls on many shoulders.
And just to respond to what you said about starting somewhere with gun control, it is our right to protect ourselves. That's not just the right of Americans, it is the right of people all over the world. When you accept gun control, you renounce the right of self protection. You accept whatever level of protection the government will give you, and that includes no protection at all. In the worst of cases it means you also accept whatever atrocities your government wants to perpetrate on you. It's happened many times before. Just ask Germany (Hitler), Italy (Mussolini), Russia (Stalin), China, (Mao Zedong), Cambodia (Pol Pot), Uganda (Amin), and at least a dozen others. And we're not talking about ancient times here. We're talking less than 120 years ago. Some of those nations are still totally screwed up today because of those leaders.
Everyone thinks it can't happen to their country. "Oh, our leaders would never do that to us." Yeah, that's what they all say as they happily throw their firearms into a grinder with smiles on their faces. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, or next year, or the next decade. But eventually, when a nation faces a crisis, a dynamic crackpot of a leader rises up with promises of reform and prosperity, and turns a once peaceful nation into a police state with troops in the streets, soup kitchen lines a mile long, banks with their doors locked, and chaos everywhere. Sounds like some futuristic apocalyptic fiction movie? Sounds like world history to me.
You see, America had the benefit (if you can call it that) of starting out under a tyrannical government. It didn't take long for the colonists to figure out that is not the kind of nation we want to be. So when the founding father drafted our Constitution and the Bill of Rights, they did so with the provision for citizens to keep government in check; to make sure our leaders understood that THEY WORK FOR US, THE PEOPLE, and not the other way around.
Thomas Jefferson said it best, "When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
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Ron
Exactly why people should be able to protect themselves. You can't count on the cops to do anything but stand around scratching there butts in the aftermath.
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Ian Shaw
Poor Jim, I am sorry and unreservedly apologise if you have been offended by my simple writing stating what happened in Australia after a massacre in which 35 innocent people were murdered.
I usually will post a small chat only of things I have experienced or know. Scrolling down through this page, it becomes apparent you are a very active participant.
I'd like to make it clear I mean no offence to you or beliefs. Now that I understand your ability to comprehend and have a clear understanding of your intelligence. I'll write very slowly to allow you time to understand.
At one of my properties I have four neighbours nearby. None of them speak English. Three of which have firearms licenses and I have given them permission to hunt on my property as their holdings are much smaller. With nothing but smiles and gestures we all understand each other and I spend many hours in their homes experiencing wonderful hospitality.
Next time you are researching Australian Immigration make sure you find our family reunification programs too.
And please Jim. Swallow your own advice and don't tell other Countries what to do.
I'm sure of your sanctioning teachers to be armed at school. Didn't a teacher, only this week, have an armed stand off with Police?
Yes Jim Police aren't going to be there when you want every time. I experienced an event in 2010 when my home was hit so rapidly around the walls and with windows smashed I believed it must be gun fire. My home is more than 70 yards of the road and I have eight working dogs who didn't make a sound. All are gun shy. It was 12.45am. I telephoned the Police at 12.50am they arrived at 4.50am.
While Australia has had the usual drug influx of cannabis, heroin and speed. Our problem spiralling and dangerous is ICE.
I hope next time we chat you will bring some manners and lose the derogatory domination suitable more for King Kong than democratic consenting adults convening with dialogue.
God bless you,
Reverend Ian
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Ian Shaw
Dear Jimmy,
I feel sorry for your ranting. You poor man, God Bless You.
In 1776 your country didn't have an army, didn't have a police service, didn't have an FBI and didn't have CIA.
In 1776, what you had a It was a coddled together militia.
Isn't that around the time of the second amendment?
No army, no police and in a time of crisis and revolution.
I reckon that's a good reason for self protection.
At the time of Jefferson, you had muskets and pistols. How long Jimmy do you think it took to reload? I've loaded one.
Your wild west was piffle compared to Australia's gold rush days. Your great lawmen and killers walked about with one maybe two six guns on their belt.
In Bathurst, Sofala, Hill End, NSW and Ballarat and Bendigo, Victoria our civilians wore six 6 guns in their belts.
I am pointing out that your laws and the right to bare arms aren't new. The laws written into your constitution were written at a different time. Fully and semi automatic weapons were not envisaged in 1776.
Protect yourself, your family and home by all means but, Really? Do you need to with weapons that mow down half the neighbours in your street?
I have American cousins, one married to a now retired Police officer of thirty years. I also know Americans who have shot and killed burglars in their homes.
How many have you shot Jimmy?
Reverend Ian
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Minister Dakota Griffin
We shouldn't be fearful but we need to help them by pleading with them tor repent of there sins and should recognize that homosexuality is a sin they should repent of
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Jim D.
Dude! Are you on the right forum? Did you read the article at the top of the page? Homosexuality has absolutely nothing to do with this issue. Are you that desperate to get attention?
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Minister Dakota Griffin
We need to pray for them and spread the Gospel to everyone including those in jail. By the way please visit www.endabortionnow.com to help end abortion in your state by clicking on legislation and sending an automatic email to your representatives
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crazy greanya
you know we can what-if---back ande forth-the bottom line is--guns-the NRA are NOT the problem--we need to secure a school-doors should have been locked--the cop that was their should have engaged the shooter--their was so much that went bad--we need a plan that works---we need to put god back in our schools and our lives--parents must start to be parents---you do not have to give your child every thing they want---no is a good wordwe have raised a bunch of snow-flakes----we ALL NEED TO PUT ON OUR BIG BOY PANTS get our heads out of our ass pray to god and stari thinking I am doen could talk forever---
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flugo
Some nuggets of truth here, Greanya
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Rody Rosaly
A gun doesn't save or end lives. A gun is just simply a tool. No different then a hammer for a carpenter. People save and end life and that can be done with anything, any tool. People just need to be held accountable for their actions. Gun control is not necessarily the answer. Maybe everyone who wants to buy a gun should first have to go through a criminal background check and a psychological exam to see if they can handle the responsibility in gun ownership.
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lilyj1
people offered skilled jobs in the country could apply for Tier 2 General Visa UK. People from outside Switzerland and European Economic Area (EEA) can also apply for the same. Some licensed sponsor has to employ you so that you can apply for residence in UK. The sponsor checks your qualification for the particular job. https://www.visasimple.com/tier2-general-work-visa-uk.html
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Lucas Goodwin
I have been filing taxes for over 60 years, nothing has changed. This department is treated like a little island all by its self. Just try to explain to anyone there what your problem is and they will create a new one. you can contect with him any criminal lawyer Brampton https://www.gurbirsinghlaw.ca
Very sad situation, we have our problems in the United Kingdom, but guns are very strictly controlled and police constables are not regularly armed except specially trained squads. The situation in the USA is ongoing carnage with gun laws, and more needs to be done to address this issue in the USA.
Consider that if one of those killed had a gun they could have fought back rather than run. Guns save lives.
Not true, there are instances where people are armed, but it is chaos and the risk of shooting an innocent person running into your sight at the last second is very real. Obviously in this school case there was not an armed person, but in other public events where a shooting has occured someone was armed. It happens to fast and you have to be an ace shot to pull it off.
And the school is huge. Why didn't someone notify the armed guard? And how did CRUZ get into the school? There was poor security there for sure. Questions still need to be answered as to why the guard didn't encounter Cruz. DO YOU KNOW? I don't think so.
At 19 years of age he just looked like another student.
You do NOT need to be an ACE to pull off shooting someone. That is utter nonsense! You do NEED to have a clear field of fire and that can be achieved if you are ready to shoot. You do NEED to be able to hit a moving target and that can be achieved if you practice the art of mooving a shooting target. What is needed is training.
In Illinois you have to complete a gun safetycourse to get a conceal and carry permit. You have to have at least an 80% capability of hitting your target. But the chances of a person ever getting csught in a shooting situation are very very statistically small.
Consider that yourself. Do you realize that what you said is absurd. There was armed security at the school. They couldn’t do anything. It was too much too fast. To suggest something like that, armed students and teachers is the most idiotic thing anyone can suggest. Please re-think your position.
Interesting how in OHIO teachers are receiving full weapons training, for free.
I do not think teachers should hold that burden alone, they need real security guards.
It would be good for Schools to contract security consultants that build banks.
Secure entry checkpoints. Bullet Proof Glass. Keycard doors.
Man Trap double doors, lock down an intruder and they can fuss, but can not get out.
All the technology exists now today... just buy it and install it.
Maybe stop banning Bibles from schools and make it legal for children to pray again ?
Bring back patriotism, the USA Flag, respect for others and the Pledge ?
Any school lacking these basic security measures should be boycotted until correct equipment is installed.
No protection? no children.
Teach LOVE & FAITH. and kids will grow in it.
AMEN - more than armed guards are necessary. I read one report that fire doors were left open and that's how cruz got in. I don't know if true or not. You need a secure building, armed teachers, kid taught how to react and armed guards. we have them for congress and state legislatures - why ot schools?
You said it Christopher. Those are the solutions. They can disregard our Second Amendment and take all guns away but it won't stop. Idiots will resort to some other means. It is domestic terrorism. You confront aggressive terrorism with aggressive defense and defensive security. People will still try to committ it. Look Israel. She has taken security and defensive measures and political terrorism occurs less. The theory of deterrence does work.
ONe guard at a HUGE school is not enough. Plus you need locked doors, cameras and phones. Apparently Cruz set off an alarm that made kids run into the halls. How did He get in? that is the question you should be asking! You should also ask why the police didn't take him into custody after many calls to his house! Why didn't the FBI pay attention after tips were given to them> Why didn't they go investigate? There are many questions left unanswered. You just gave justification for MORE armed guards! thanks for doing so. NOw you realize why we need MORE guards in each school including the teachers being armed.
I am a teacher, I am armed, I have a small business teaching other teachers/students/policemen's wives/former military/ ministers/ etc to shoot. I have taught over two thousand students to shoot correctly and carefully. I know of what I speak - you do not! You are relying on emotion and stupidity or lack of knowledge Jeanie. It takes a cop about ten minutes to get to a home in my neighborhood after a call comes in for help according to the police chief. DO you realize what could happen to YOU in 10 minutes? think about it and rethink YOUR position. I ahe also taught in huge high schools that take tem minutes to walk from one side to the other if you walk fast. If an armed guard is at one end and the shooter at the other, look at how many would die in the time it takes the guard to get there. IF a teacher were armed, he or she could return fire if near the shooter. Now YOUR brain must be fried if you cannot comprehend that!
So this is just you drummin up business.
No Bob,I don’t need the business. Americans using their 2AConstitutional rights keep me plenty busy. You need to use yours too.
You are so correct. But anti-gun people will never see our point.
Anti gunners is what keeps me busy at times in my teaching of firearm safety. They experience the helplessness of robbery and or home invasion etc and suddenly wake up to the fact that guns are great for self protection. They “see the light.”
I have no problem with someone owning a rifle, but it is insane to let civilians buy AR-15s, because you do not need semi-automatic weapons to shoot a deer or protect a family. If we had gun control in the first place, the man would not have come into the school and hurt someone in the first place. Police officers, military, and special ops are the only people who should be allowed guns.
Your handle says it all.
You probably should learn more about riot situations, and how Korean families had to defend their shops and children.
Other minorities also must be prepared to defend their homes.
May you always live in peace and safety.
May you be surrounded by love and happiness.
And may you never be called to stand between an evil mob and the lives of your family, unarmed, and helpless.
KOREANS in the Los Angeles riots back in the 90's stood on their roof tops and were prepared to shoot any who tried to burn their stores. Some in Feguson last year stood in front of their stores with guns in hand. Guess what happened - their stores were not looted, or burned.
You know NOTHING aobut guns as shown by your statement. HUNTING RIFLES are far more powerful than AR's...go get some education then stop saying stupid things like you just did! Most AR's have .22 barrels in them and if configured to normal round size are not as powerful as a deer hunting rifle!
Now to answer your second stupid statement - it takes a police officer 8-20 minutes to get to a place where help is needed. How many are killed in that time? Would YOU want to wait for ten minutes for the police to arrive if you were in danger? NO I DIDN"T THINK SO. So SHUT Up until you have more education on the matter.
Just like in Hitlers Germany. Thats your solution?
Do you know what semi automatic means. The key word being semi.
Your post made me laugh. ARs are not used for hunting deer. They can be used for family protection but a good shotgun usually works better.
Hi, Peace Queen. Cute handle, by the way.
I don't understand why everyone seems to conflate hunting, AR-15 and the 2nd Amendment. One has nothing to do with the other.
"Need" has nothing to do with any of this. This is not a nation built on need. As I said in another part of this thread, no one need a 50" TV, no one needs 20 pairs of shoes, and no one needs an AR-15. However, we may want all those things, and that is what our society is based on: Want with the ability to purchase. However, in the case of a home invasion by multiple assailants, you will surely want an AR-15.
I don't see how gun control would stop someone from wanting to hurt people. If he could not buy a firearm legally, he surely would have acquired one illegally. Or with a little research and a few dollars worth of ingredients, he could have built a bomb. Or he could use a vehicle and just run people over. Stop blaming the tool and focus on the person and why that person wants to hurt people. The only reason to ban the tool is because you've given up on helping the mentally and/or emotionally disturbed person.
Oh, and if only the police and military have guns, then we live in a police state or under marshal law. We cease to be free citizens. We instead become subjects.
No, you just have knifings, bombs, and acid attacks. You also have a justice system that when not concerned about offending someone could have stopped this and a couple other attacks. He was reported to our FBI, who then did nothing. It was never sent to the local field office to look into, nor was local law enforcement notified. He had sheriff's deputies called to his house over 30 times with not arrests or charges. A previous shooter had been reported but nothing was done.
There are already 20,000 rules on the books concerning guns. ENOUGH don't you think? What needs to be done is funding for mental health. IF you are a wacko, your family cannot get you incarcerated if you are over 21 - thus they are helpless. We need laws for MENTAL HEALTH! And look at London - that is a MUSLIM hangout. Look at the MUSLIM bombings there - I will take the US anyway over Britain whose leaders do NOT listen to the people. They voted for BREXIT - what have THEY done about it? NOTHING! BRITS ought to throw them out like we did Obama! Wke up Gerry!
"Gun Control" is important, for sure. But, the problem, particularly in the US, is that killing is glamorized and made to look "heroic" in movies, video games, toys, TV dramas and music. All our heroes have hand guns! At the end of the story, they shoot up the problem, get the beautiful girl and live happily ever after.
That image is drilled into kid's heads over and over, day after day. We need to bring more attention to the practice of equating heroism and so-called manliness with premeditated murder. We need to work to create a different attitude about firearms and the sad consequences of killing other human beings. We need to address the mindset that makes gun play glamorous!
As Investor’s Business Daily points out, “a study of global mass-shooting incidents from 2009 to 2015 by the Crime Prevention Research Center, headed by economist John Lott, shows the U.S. doesn't lead the world in mass shootings. In fact, it doesn't even make the top 10, when measured by death rate per million population from mass public shootings.”
Here’s the list of the 18 countries with the top death rate per million people from mass public shootings from 2009 through 2015:
Norway: 1.888 Serbia: 0.381 France: 0.347 Macedonia: 0.337 Albania: 0.206 Slovakia: 0.185 Switzerland: 0.142 Finland: 0.132 Belgium: 0.128 Czech Republic: 0.123 United States: 0.089 Austria: 0.068 The Netherlands: 0. 051 Canada: 0.032 England: 0.027 Germany: 0.023 Russia: 0.012 Italy: 0.009 Norway’s rate is undoubtedly highest because of the massacre in 2011 when a mass shooter killed 77 people.
The study adds that even if one puts it in terms of frequency the US ranks 12th compared to European countries. … There were 27% more casualties per capita from mass public shootings in EU than US from 2009-15.”
Further, "There were 16 cases where at least 15 people were killed. Out of those cases, four were in the United States, two in Germany, France, and the United Kingdom. But the U.S. has a population four times greater than Germany's and five times the U.K.'s, so on a per-capita basis the U.S. ranks low in comparison — actually, those two countries would have had a frequency of attacks 1.96 (Germany) and 2.46 (UK) times higher."
The murders from mass shootings in America are horrifying and brutal. But in the wake of another attack, it should be incumbent on all people on all sides not to demagogue the issue.