Christmas is coming decoration

Christmas season is here, and with it another slate of holiday controversies. Should Jesus be allowed in school concerts?


“You can’t take Christ out of Christmas,” as the saying goes.

Well, apparently, you can. And one Virginia school plans to do just that. Officials at Robious Middle School have banned all songs containing mentions of Jesus from the annual Christmas concert.

According to the school’s choir director, the move was made in the spirit of sensitivity toward a more diverse student body. “We had a few students who weren’t comfortable singing a piece I have done many times in the past, but it is of a sacred nature and does mention Jesus,” the choir director wrote in an email exchange with concerned parent David Allen.

Allen countered that the changes to the winter concert program – while perhaps pro-diversity on their face – seemed to be more aimed at knocking Christianity than anything else.

“It just seems like … everywhere you look everyone’s afraid of stepping on someone’s toes or everything is being so sensitive,” Allen later told reporters. “They were unable to [sing this song] because the word Jesus was in there and apparently someone assumed it was of a sacred nature. I’m trying to rationalize how you can encourage diversity and yet be exclusionary in one specific area,” he remarked.

War on Christmas“War on Christmas” Continues

Unsurprisingly, the incident has provoked outrage in conservative religious circles, which are quick to respond to incidents involving anti-Christmas sentiment (whether perceived or real).

First Liberty Institute, an organization that focuses on issues of religious freedom, released a statement challenging the validity of the school’s decision.

“Federal courts have upheld the constitutionality of public school holiday programs that include the use of religious music, art, or drama,” a representative for the group wrote, “so long as the material is presented in an objective manner ‘as a traditional part of the cultural and religious heritage of the particular holiday.’”

It’s not the first time the so-called War on Christmas has made public schools its battleground. In December 2016, a Texas judge ordered a school to restore a “Charlie Brown Christmas” display after administrators had taken it down because it featured a Bible verse. Many complained about the decision, but the school ultimately relented and put the display back up.

Peace Treaty in Sight?

Whether there really is a concerted effort to put a damper on Christmas is up for debate. Does demanding that government-operated entities – like public schools – refrain from promoting one religion over others really constitute a “war” on our nation’s most popular winter holiday? That interpretation seems a bit sensationalistic.

However, it seems clear now that each new story about Christian symbols or references being banned from the public square will only serve to reinforce the belief held by conservative religious groups that their faith is under attack. After all, wars can’t be fought without ammunition.

With that in mind, some people argue that the best strategy for putting this debate to rest might be simply to let Christians celebrate Jesus in the public domain (within reason, of course). After all, he is a historical figure whose birth is marked by a major holiday on our calendar. Similar to the pledge of allegiance, if students are uncomfortable taking part, give them an option to sit out or participate in an alternative activity.

But others are enraged by this idea, viewing it as a massive concession to faith groups intent on spreading their religious messages within society – especially to young people. The United States is not a Christian country, critics insist, and as a matter of principle Jesus should be kept out of the classroom.

Where do you stand?

 

103 comments

  1. Lionheart says:

    If you don’t mind schools putting on concerts to honor other religious festivals (Islam, Judaism, Krishna, Hindu) why not? However, if the schools are state run, religious festivals might not comply with the separation of church and state.

      1. Lynn Gideon says:

        Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter about church and state. It is not in the Constitution or Bill of Rights.

        The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prevents the government from making laws which respect an establishment of religion, prohibit the free exercise of religion, or abridge the freedom of speech, the freedom of the press, the right to peaceably assemble, or the right to petition the government for redress of grievances. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, as one of the ten amendments that constitute the Bill of Rights.

        1. The Rev. Robert Barker says:

          Lynn Gideon: Supreme Court of the United States rulings on the Separation of Church and State.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States#The_%22Separation%22_principle_and_the_Supreme_Court

          “Separation of church and state” is paraphrased from Thomas Jefferson and used by others in expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution which reads: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”

          The phrase “separation between church & state” is generally traced to a January 1, 1802, letter by Thomas Jefferson, addressed to the Danbury Baptist Association in Connecticut, and published in a Massachusetts newspaper. Jefferson wrote,

          Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.”[1]
          ….
          Article Six of the United States Constitution also specifies that “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”

          Jefferson’s metaphor of a wall of separation has been cited repeatedly by the U.S. Supreme Court. In Reynolds v. United States (1879) the Court wrote that Jefferson’s comments “may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the [First] Amendment.” In Everson v. Board of Education (1947), Justice Hugo Black wrote: “In the words of Thomas Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect a wall of separation between church and state.”[3]

          In contrast to separationism, the Supreme Court in Zorach v. Clauson upheld accommodationism, holding that the nation’s “institutions presuppose a Supreme Being” and that government recognition of God does not constitute the establishment of a state church as the Constitution’s authors intended to prohibit.[4][5] As such, the Court has not always interpreted the constitutional principle as absolute, and the proper extent of separation between government and religion in the U.S. remains an ongoing subject of impassioned debate.[6][7][8][9]

          The “Separation” principle and the Supreme Court
          Jefferson’s concept of “separation of church and state” first became a part of Establishment Clause jurisprudence in Reynolds v. U.S., 98 U.S. 145 (1878).[47] In that case, the court examined the history of religious liberty in the US, determining that while the constitution guarantees religious freedom, “The word ‘religion’ is not defined in the Constitution. We must go elsewhere, therefore, to ascertain its meaning, and nowhere more appropriately, we think, than to the history of the times in the midst of which the provision was adopted.” The court found that the leaders in advocating and formulating the constitutional guarantee of religious liberty were James Madison and Thomas Jefferson. Quoting the “separation” paragraph from Jefferson’s letter to the Danbury Baptists, the court concluded that, “coming as this does from an acknowledged leader of the advocates of the measure, it may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the amendment thus secured.”

          The centrality of the “separation” concept to the Religion Clauses of the Constitution was made explicit in Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947), a case dealing with a New Jersey law that allowed government funds to pay for transportation of students to both public and Catholic schools. This was the first case in which the court applied the Establishment Clause to the laws of a state, having interpreted the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment as applying the Bill of Rights to the states as well as the federal legislature. Citing Jefferson, the court concluded that “The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach.”

          While the decision (with four dissents) ultimately upheld the state law allowing the funding of transportation of students to religious schools, the majority opinion (by Justice Hugo Black) and the dissenting opinions (by Justice Wiley Blount Rutledge and Justice Robert H. Jackson) each explicitly stated that the Constitution has erected a “wall between church and state” or a “separation of Church from State”: their disagreement was limited to whether this case of state funding of transportation to religious schools breached that wall. Rutledge, on behalf of the four dissenting justices, took the position that the majority had indeed permitted a violation of the wall of separation in this case: “Neither so high nor so impregnable today as yesterday is the wall raised between church and state by Virginia’s great statute of religious freedom and the First Amendment, now made applicable to all the states by the Fourteenth.” Writing separately, Justice Jackson argued that “[T]here are no good grounds upon which to support the present legislation. In fact, the undertones of the opinion, advocating complete and uncompromising separation of Church from State, seem utterly discordant with its conclusion yielding support to their commingling in educational matters.”

          In 1962, the Supreme Court addressed the issue of officially sponsored prayer or religious recitations in public schools. In Engel v. Vitale, 370 U.S. 421 (1962), the Court, by a vote of 6-1, determined it unconstitutional for state officials to compose an official school prayer and require its recitation in public schools, even when the prayer is non-denominational and students may excuse themselves from participation. (The prayer required by the New York State Board of Regents prior to the Court’s decision consisted of: “Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence upon Thee, and we beg Thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers, and our country. Amen.”) As the Court stated:

          The petitioners contend, among other things, that the state laws requiring or permitting use of the Regents’ prayer must be struck down as a violation of the Establishment Clause because that prayer was composed by governmental officials as a part of a governmental program to further religious beliefs. For this reason, petitioners argue, the State’s use of the Regents’ prayer in its public school system breaches the constitutional wall of separation between Church and State. We agree with that contention, since we think that the constitutional prohibition against laws respecting an establishment of religion must at least mean that, in this country, it is no part of the business of government to compose official prayers for any group of the American people to recite as a part of a religious program carried on by government.

          The court noted that it “is a matter of history that this very practice of establishing governmentally composed prayers for religious services was one of the reasons which caused many of our early colonists to leave England and seek religious freedom in America.”[48] The lone dissenter, Justice Potter Stewart, objected to the court’s embrace of the “wall of separation” metaphor: “I think that the Court’s task, in this as in all areas of constitutional adjudication, is not responsibly aided by the uncritical invocation of metaphors like the “wall of separation,” a phrase nowhere to be found in the Constitution.”

          In Epperson v. Arkansas, 393 U.S. 97 (1968), the Supreme Court considered an Arkansas law that made it a crime “to teach the theory or doctrine that mankind ascended or descended from a lower order of animals,” or “to adopt or use in any such institution a textbook that teaches” this theory in any school or university that received public funds. The court’s opinion, written by Justice Abe Fortas, ruled that the Arkansas law violated “the constitutional prohibition of state laws respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. The overriding fact is that Arkansas’ law selects from the body of knowledge a particular segment which it proscribes for the sole reason that it is deemed to conflict with a particular religious doctrine; that is, with a particular interpretation of the Book of Genesis by a particular religious group.” The court held that the Establishment Clause prohibits the state from advancing any religion, and that “[T]he state has no legitimate interest in protecting any or all religions from views distasteful to them.” [49]

          In Lemon v. Kurtzman, 403 U.S. 602 (1971), the court determined that a Pennsylvania state policy of reimbursing the salaries and related costs of teachers of secular subjects in private religious schools violated the Establishment Clause. The court’s decision argued that the separation of church and state could never be absolute: “Our prior holdings do not call for total separation between church and state; total separation is not possible in an absolute sense. Some relationship between government and religious organizations is inevitable,” the court wrote. “Judicial caveats against entanglement must recognize that the line of separation, far from being a ‘wall’, is a blurred, indistinct, and variable barrier depending on all the circumstances of a particular relationship.”

          Subsequent to this decision, the Supreme Court has applied a three-pronged test to determine whether government action comports with the Establishment Clause, known as the “Lemon Test”. First, the law or policy must have been adopted with a neutral or non-religious purpose. Second, the principle or primary effect must be one that neither advances nor inhibits religion. Third, the statute or policy must not result in an “excessive entanglement” of government with religion.[51] (The decision in Lemon v. Kurtzman hinged upon the conclusion that the government benefits were flowing disproportionately to Catholic schools, and that Catholic schools were an integral component of the Catholic Church’s religious mission, thus the policy involved the state in an “excessive entanglement” with religion.) Failure to meet any of these criteria is a proof that the statute or policy in question violates the Establishment Clause.

          In 2002, a three judge panel on the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals held that classroom recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in a California public school was unconstitutional, even when students were not compelled to recite it, due to the inclusion of the phrase “under God.” In reaction to the case, Elk Grove Unified School District v. Newdow, both houses of Congress passed measures reaffirming their support for the pledge, and condemning the panel’s ruling.[52] The case was appealed to the Supreme Court, where the case was ultimately overturned in June 2004, solely on procedural grounds not related to the substantive constitutional issue. Rather, a five-justice majority held that Newdow, a non-custodial parent suing on behalf of his daughter, lacked standing to sue.

          When the Louisiana state legislature passed a law requiring public school biology teachers to give Creationism and Evolution equal time in the classroom, the Supreme Court ruled that the law was unconstitutional because it was intended to advance a particular religion, and did not serve the secular purpose of improved scientific education.[53] (See also: Creation and evolution in public education)

          The display of the Ten Commandments as part of courthouse displays was considered in a group of cases decided in summer of 2005, including McCreary County v. ACLU of Kentucky and Van Orden v. Perry. While parties on both sides hoped for a reformulation or clarification of the Lemon test, the two rulings ended with narrow 5–4 and opposing decisions,[vague] with Justice Stephen Breyer the swing vote.

          On December 20, 2005, the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit ruled in the case of ACLU v. Mercer County that the continued display of the Ten Commandments as part of a larger display on American legal traditions in a Kentucky courthouse was allowed, because the purpose of the display (educating the public on American legal traditions) was secular in nature.[54] In ruling on the Mount Soledad cross controversy on May 3, 2006, however, a federal judge ruled that the cross on public property on Mount Soledad must be removed.[55]

          In what will be the case is Town of Greece v. Galloway, 12-696, the Supreme Court agreed to hear a case regarding whether prayers at town meetings, which are allowed, must allow various faiths to lead prayer, or whether the prayers can be predominately Christian.[56] On May 5, 2014, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled 5-4 in favor of the Town of Greece by holding that the U.S. Constitution not only allows for prayer at government meetings, but also for sectarian prayers like predominately Christian prayers.[57]

          1. Chad says:

            Wow, Barker. TL/DR

          2. R. Clarkson says:

            I agree completely, however as a teacher I saw almost all faiths and cultures being taught in grades 6-12 sociology and geography classes, except for Christian Faith and Judahism which were actively suppressed in classroom discussions. Yet reading archeological treateses and historical research treatises I have also found a great deal of evidence in ancient supporting documents for those faiths. Is it right to expose our nation’s youth in such a polarized bigotes manner?
            According to this as extracted from the constitution and subsequent court proceedings, teaching those other religions and religious precepts in public schools is just as wrong as suppressing Christian and Judiaec speech and banning symbols.
            So the issue is not as cut and dry as one would think. Especially if public education is now supporting a forum for diversity, which it clearly does not.

        2. Minister Post says:

          Finally someone is smart enough to show what are founding fathers already knew was going to happen. Amen!

          1. Minister Post says:

            What really scares me is a famous scientist named, “Gregg Braden “, has found a message in our DNA that God left for us to find when we finally had the technology to decode it using the Arimic language that Jesus spoke. It’s EXTRODENARY That the media only put this information in a nature magazine. This info should have been on the cover of Time magazine, but instead the media hid this info from the masses Mr. Braden wrote a book called the God code..if you don’t believe God exists, read the truth for yourself you athiest pompous ass!!! Your creator left us a message incoded in our DNA. That’s EXTRODENARY to say the least.

    1. Mark Pelcarsky says:

      The idea of a separation of church and state is stupid. If so why does the president place his hand on a Bible when sworn in? And why does it say ” In God We Trust” on our money? Also why isn’t any body pissed off at the fact that Neil Diamond and Streisand making money off of Christmas albums when they are both Jews?

      1. Lionheart says:

        The President placed his hand on the Bible like many do that profess to be Christian. This is their right, but not a requirement. An atheist can place his hand on a copy of the Constitution if he so wishes. He would not use the words “So help me God”. He can use the words “I do so affirm” A Muslim can use the Quran.

        As for people making money out of Christmas that support other religions, why not? Every gift you buy for Christmas Mr Pelcarsky, the manufacturer, or retailer, will make a profit from your purchase. You’re delusional if you think that doesn’t happen.

      2. Charles says:

        It says ‘In God we Trust’ on our money because that was added in the 1950’s as a reaction to communism.
        From Wikipedia: “In God We Trust” is the official motto of the United States of America, Nicaragua, and of the U.S. state of Florida. It was adopted as the nation’s motto in 1956 as a replacement or alternative to the unofficial motto of E pluribus unum, which was adopted when the Great Seal of the United States was created and adopted in 1782.[1][2]

    2. Larry says:

      Don’t forget about satanism! If you’re going to put Christ and Christmas, you should put Satan in as wel

      1. esmeralda constancio says:

        Especially because christ was not born in december but during rashana the festival of tents. ….thats between september and october …..christmas came from the celebration of winter solstice in an attempt to sway pagans into christianity but has now roared its ugly head and seperation of church and state was meant to keep any govt from taking our right to worship Yahweh the one true God.

        1. Minister Post says:

          Amen!!

    3. renie says:

      this is not a matter of schools putting on ever thing in the wide world , it is about Christian birth of Christ not beliefs of worship of bugs or some pedophile leader. Just as people said back I the day give the freaks a inch and they take a mile. and that is exactly what has happened.

    4. renie says:

      https://americasfoundingfathers.wordpress.com/2010/11/29/a-christian-nation/
      Quotes From Our Founders
      George Washington – first President of the United States of America
      “What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.”
      – George Washington
      “It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.”
      – George Washington
      “It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor.”
      – George Washington
      “Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable.”
      – George Washington We beseech [God] to pardon our national and other transgressions…
      – George Washington, Thanksgiving Proclamation 1789
      “Oh, eternal and everlasting God, direct my thoughts, words and work. Wash away my sins in the immaculate blood of the Lamb and purge my heart by Thy Holy Spirit. Daily, frame me more and more in the likeness of Thy son, Jesus Christ, that living in Thy fear, and dying in Thy favor, I may in thy appointed time obtain the resurrection of the justified unto eternal life. Bless, O Lord, the whole race of mankind and let the world be filled with the knowledge of Thee and Thy son, Jesus Christ.”
      – George Washington, Prayer
      “True religion affords to government its surest support.”
      – George Washington
      Samuel Adams, Signer of the Declaration of Independence

      “I … [rely] upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins.” – Samuel Adams
      “We have this day [Fourth of July] restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in Heaven, and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His Kingdom come.”
      – Samuel Adams
      “The name of the Lord (says the Scripture) is a strong tower; thither the righteous flee and are safe (Proverbs 18:10). Let us secure His favor and He will lead us through the journey of this life and at length receive us to a better.”
      – Samuel Adams
      United States Congressional Endorsement of the Bible and God

      Congress printed a Bible for America and said:
      “The United States in Congress assembled … recommend this edition of the Bible to the inhabitants of the United States … a neat edition of the Holy Scriptures for the use of schools.”
      – United States Congress 1782
      “Congress passed this resolution: “The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.”
      – United States Congress 1782
      “By Law the United States Congress adds to US coinage:”
      “In God We Trust”– United States Congress 1864
      John Adams, President of the United States of America, First Vice President, Signer of the Declaration of Independence, Signer of the Bill of Rights, and Signer of First Amendment

      “We recognize no sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus.”
      – John Adams and John Hancock
      “The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity.” – John Adams

      “The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
      – John Adams

      “The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.”
      – John Adams
      “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
      – John Adams
      “I have examined all religions, and the result is that the Bible is the best book in the world.” – John Adams

      “The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity.”
      – John Adams

      “[The Fourth of July] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.” – John Adams
      “As the safety and prosperity of nations ultimately and essentially depend on the protection and the blessing of Almighty God, and the national acknowledgment of this truth is not only an indispensable duty which the people owe to Him.” – John Adams
      Abigail Adams, Wife of John Adams

      “The Scriptures tell us righteousness exalteth a Nation.”
      – Abigail Adams
      Patrick Henry, Early America Leader
      There is a book [the Bible] worth all the other books ever printed.– Patrick Henry
      It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great Nation was founded not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.– Patrick Henry
      John Jay, First Chief-Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court
      Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is their duty – as well as privilege and interest – of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.
      – John Jay

      The Bible is the best of all books, for it is the word of God and teaches us the way to be happy in this world and in the next. Continue therefore to read it and to regulate your life by its precepts.
      – John Jay
      John Hancock, Signer of the Declaration of Independence

      We recognize no sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus.
      – John Adams and John Hancock

      Benjamin Rush, Signer of the Declaration of Independence

      “The only foundation for . . . a republic is to be laid in Religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments.”
      – Benjamin Rush
      John Witherspoon, Continental Congress

      “He is the best friend to American liberty, who is most sincere and active in promoting true and undefiled religion, and who sets himself with the greatest firmness to bear down on profanity and immorality of every kind. Whoever is an avowed enemy of God, I scruple not to call him an enemy to his country.”
      – John Witherspoon
      John Dickinson, Signer Constitution of the USA, Continental Congress

      “The rights essential to happiness. . . . We claim them from a higher source — from the King of kings and Lord of all the earth.”
      – John Dickinson
      Benjamin Franklin
      “Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.”
      – Benjamin Franklin
      Thomas Jefferson, President
      God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever.
      – Thomas Jefferson, Jefferson Memorial
      The Christian religion is the best religion that has ever been given to man
      – Thomas Jefferson, Jefferson Memorial
      Daniel Webster, Early American Politician
      Education is useless without the Bible.
      – Daniel Webster
      Noah Webster, American Schoolmaster
      Education is useless without the Bible. The Bible was America’s basic text book in all fields. God’s Word, contained in the Bible, has furnished all necessary rules to direct our conduct.
      – Noah Webster
      In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed … No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people.
      – Noah Webster, Preface Noah Webster Dictionary, 1828
      Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story

      “I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law … There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations.”
      – Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story, Harvard Speech, 1829
      National Anthem of the United States of America, Francis Scott Key
      “And this be our motto, ‘In God is our trust’” – USA National Anthem, Third Verse
      Andrew Jackson, President of the United States of America

      “[The Bible] is the rock on which our Republic rests.”
      – Andrew Jackson
      Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States of America

      “In regards to this great Book [the Bible], I have but to say it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Savior gave to the world was communicated through this Book. But for it we could not know right from wrong. All things most desirable for man’s welfare, here and hereafter, are found portrayed in it.”
      – Abraham Lincoln

      “I am busily engaged in study of the Bible.” – Abraham Lincoln
      “I have been driven many times to my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had absolutely no other place to go.” – Abraham Lincoln
      “This nation under God”
      – Abraham Lincoln, Gettysberg Address and inscribed on Lincoln Memorial
      “And whereas it is the duty of nations as well as of men, to own their dependence upon the overruling power of God … and to recognize the sublime truth, announced in the Holy Scriptures and proven by all history, that those nations only are blessed whose God is the Lord.”
      – Abraham Lincoln
      “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”
      – Abraham Lincoln, Lincoln Memorial

      “Whereas, the Senate of the United States, devoutly recognizing the Supreme Authority and just Government of Almighty God, in all the affairs of men and of nations, has, by a resolution, requested the President to designate and set apart a day for National prayer and humiliation…”
      – Abraham Lincoln
      United States Supreme Court

      “This is a Christian nation”
      – United States Supreme Court Decision in Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States, 1892
      “Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of The Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise; and in this sense and to this extent our civilization and our institutions are emphatically Christian…This is a Christian nation”
      – United States Supreme Court Decision in Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States, 1892
      Washington Monument

      “Holiness to the Lord” (Exodus 28:26, 30:30, Isaiah 23:18, Zechariah 14:20)
      – Washington Monument

      “Search the Scriptures” (John 5:39)
      – Washington Monument
      “The memory of the just is blessed” (Proverbs 10:7)
      – Washington Monument
      “May Heaven to this Union continue its beneficence”
      – Washington Monument
      “In God We Trust”
      – Washington Monument
      “Praise be to God” (engraved on the monument’s capstone in Latin as “Laus Deo”)
      – Washington Monument
      James Madison, A Primary Author of the Constitution of the United States of America

      “We have staked the whole future of our new nation, not upon the power of government; far from it. We have staked the future of all our political constitutions upon the capacity of each of ourselves to govern ourselves according to the moral principles of the Ten Commandments.”
      – James Madison
      “Religion [is] the basis and foundation of Government”
      – James Madison
      “Cursed be all that learning that is contrary to the cross of Christ.”
      – James Madison
      Calvin Coolidge, President of the United States of America
      “The foundations of our society and our government rest so much on the teachings of the Bible that it would be difficult to support them if faith in these teachings would cease to be practically universal in our country.”
      – Calvin Coolidge

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    5. Rev James Gibb says:

      America is a predominantly Christian country, if you live in America and you are not Christian then you need to come to accept that Americans will celebrate Christmas their way, if you do it differently then you should be allowed to do so but there should be no requirement for Americans to change to suit others.

      1. Tabz Jones says:

        So, to your way of thinking anyone who is not Christian is not American? I was born here, and raised Christian though I am not Christian now, making me just as much and American as you, with all of the same rights under the law. If I must hide my religious beliefs, at home or my place of worship, then sir, so must you.
        It isn’t a matter of wanting Christians to change their beliefs, it’s more that those who aren’t Christian are asking for it not to be forced on us.

        Would you want your children to sing Jewish songs in your school’s “Christmas” play? (As I was asked to do in 4th grade). Or would you feel that it was against your faith for your children to be forced to do so?

        “What is good for the goose is good for the gander”, reverend.

        1. The Rev. Robert Barker says:

          vTabz Jones: Well said! I agree totally!

        2. The Rev. Robert Barker says:

          Tabz Jones: Well said. I agree totally.

  2. Lea says:

    Its Happy Holiday for me because this holiday belongs to ALL not just Christians. Being a survivor from Christianity I’m just tired of their whinning. Its not their holiday..They took it. Its dose not belong just to them.

    If Christian’s want their music then they sould welcome others and their holiday celebration. Just maybe they will learn something….But I really doubt it..You know we are just ungodly.

    1. Pasror Dave says:

      I agree. I said before I would like to see a UNIVERSAL holiday were everyone no matter what your faith can enjoy TOGETHER. And even if you don’t follow any faith st all. A day for the world to come together as one. There is just too much HATE in the world. It’s time we try peace and love for one an other
      PASTOR DAVE
      PRISON MINISTRY SERVICES
      BRIDGEPORT, CONNECTICUT
      THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
      prisonministry.net/btipms

      1. esmeralda constancio says:

        Amen

      2. The Rev. Robert Barker says:

        Lea and Pastor Dave: Well said. I agree totally.

    2. Rev. Andwyn says:

      It is not their holiday I agree, most of their “Christmas” traditions come from Pagan roots. Being a Pagan priest myself, and an egalitarian, I also believe that all should honour the divine in however they see fit (so long it harm none), and welcome others to practice the holiday in whatever means make them feel closer to their Gos(s).

      PAX

  3. Rev. Rene says:

    Is not the tenet of Christianity to embrace ALL peoples, regardless of creed, color, nationality, ethnicity, etc., etc.? Then how can others, not Christian, then refuse to reciprocate? In a civil society, even when there is only a perceived separation of church and state rather than an actual separation there must be respect for people’s beliefs, whether you are in that group or not. I think schools would be far better of, and so would the rest of us in time, if there is some sort of classes in knowledge of other religions and cultures, rather than suppression of one religion only!

  4. Cindy Murten says:

    Christmas as always been and always will be about the birth of Jesus the savior of the world. People are taking the holiday and making it a political battle ground. Instead of what it is a celebration of great importance.
    I know a lot of people of different beliefs who look forward to the holiday season to be able to spend time with family and friends. Enjoying the peace and comfort of the season.
    Quit trying to shove beliefs down other people throats because you think yours is right and the rest of the world ideas are wrong and that is all this is.

    1. Jerry Jacobi says:

      Y’all better tell her Christmas is a pagan holiday based on pagan myths, cuz I’ll hurt her feelings.

      1. Lori says:

        Yup. It’s a pagan holiday. It was and is celebrated as Yule/the Winter Solstice. In ancient days it was a celebration of new light coming to the world and was adopted by the Christians to appease the pagan population. I thought this was common knowledge. Anyway, if the school is calling it a Christmas Concert then it should have Christian stuff in it, including Jesus. If it is called a Holiday Concert the they can mix it up with various other holidays that fall around the same time.

      2. Lea says:

        Cindy…Your additude is the problem and people like you. You need to educate yourself and stop being so selfish.

      3. Lionheart says:

        Actually, Christmas is a Christian celebration. Yule is a Pagan celebration, Hanukkah is a Jewish festival, etc,.

        1. Jennifer Kemper says:

          My family celebrates Yule, the winter solstice on which we exchange gifts and eat a festive meal together. It’s a Pagan tradition that the Christians co-opted.

      4. guidvce4 says:

        Easy, Jerry, relax. No need to be hurtful just cuz they don’t understand the origin of the season. Some folks would like to just keep it simple and believe what they believe. As long as they don’t try to force their beliefs on me or anyone else(like the followers of Islam do) its all good.
        I’ve always thought that the reason there are so many religions is cuz there are so many different points of view and paths to follow. If one chooses to do so.

    2. BethKCZ says:

      Those who wrote the Gospels as well as the early Church didn’t think it was important enough to record Jesus’ date of birth. The closest we have is in Luke “When Shepherds watched their flocks by night…” (paraphrased), which they do during lambing season – March-April in Palestine.

    3. Rev. Andwyn says:

      Cindy, nobody is trying. To shove their beliefs down your throat, I’m so sorry you are so burdened with such ignorant animosity, and hope you learn to see all faiths as expressions of divine worship. PAX

  5. Linda says:

    In education there is supposed to be no preferring of one religion over another, and it seems that a primarily xian centered songfest would seem to promote Christianity. Secular music would be preferential.
    The Xmas season was pagan in origin, it was called Yule in Europe, let’s not forget that.. Xian’s absorbed the winter feast date and used it to celebrate Jesus birth, to further include pagans in their religion.
    If u sing “ deck the halls!”, you are singing a pagan song, Yule log and all! Let’s just all have fun and appreciate each other!

  6. Charles 'rents says:

    If you don’t think Jesus should be included in Christmas, then go to work like a normal day.
    Americans are such yankers

    1. Lea says:

      If your not Christian its still your holiday..And you get the day off also.

    2. Rev. Andwyn says:

      American’s are such “yankers”?? wow, how Christ-like. so little judgement and hate! I happen to be British Charles, and I am not impressed with how you represent us. what’s that saying? its one of my favourites actually, Do unto others? or even a better one- Judge not lest ye be judged? Spot on mate, Cheers!

    3. Dr. Darryl says:

      Charles I am retired from a company that operates 24/7/365 on Christmas day,those who work do so by volunteering and seniority. Some are church going Christian that work on Christmas for the money. As a Union work placed contract reads the pay for holidays and overtime.

      1. Minister Post says:

        Been there done that.

  7. Alan Meunier says:

    Bill Oreilly from Fox “news” invented the “war on Christmas” to rouse his conservative base. Just a little background is all-telling.

  8. Clyde Hodge says:

    simpleminded idjits

    We must not deny, but rather include ALL religions who subscribe to the Northern Hemisphere winter celebrations, and hope that the cultures who have different seasonal and hemispheric celebrations enjoy equal share in the pointing out the Glory of the Creation/Creator.
    The First Amendment denies (as all true American matriots and patriots must deeply appreciate) the establishment of official religions in regards to the state, but it never allowed the elimination of any of the religions within the boundaries of the state, either.
    Be inclusive, ya boneheads; it’s much more pleasant, kind and nice.You know; Like Santa Claus wants you to be.

    1. Clyde Hodge says:

      Oh, I forgot: The Athiests can enjoy the rest of the days, okay?

  9. angel722angel says:

    If you want to get technical, the pagans had it first. With that said, MANY religions AND Beliefs celebrate this holiday season according to their own beliefs! So let people celebrate for God’s sake! The main reason people are against Christians is because they are trying to dominate the entire holiday and make it SOLELY about THEIR RELIGION and people are fed up with it! These other religions have been around AND celebrating this holiday longer then Christianity has been around! For Christian’s it about Christ, For Jews, it’s about an oil lamp (I believe) for Pagan’s, it’s about the returning of the sun….For MANY, it’s mostly about santa clause and presents! As the rommie said in Buffy The Vampire Slayer “It’s share time Buffy!!”

  10. The Rev. Robert Barker says:

    Those Christians who want to sing and/or hear sacred Christmas music can do so in their churches or their own homes. Public schools, who serve all people of every religion, or none (as more and more people describe themselves) is not the place for Christian celebrations. Put your nativity scenes on your church owned land or private property as well. Nobody is stopping you and I’ll defend your right to do so, even though I don’t share your faith. And if Christians want to keep Christ in their Christmas then let them feed the hungry, visit the sick or imprisoned, help the widow and orphan in their need, etc.

  11. The Rev. Robert Barker says:

    WE have the 1st amendment that says “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..” The U.S. Supreme Court has said that this means the there is a wall of separation between the church (religion) and the state and that it applies to the states as well. No government, federal, state, county, township or any public government, including tax funded public schools shall use pubic taxes to promote any religion. That is the principle that keeps us all safe from having any religion use the government to promote their particular brand of dogma upon the public.

    1. Lea says:

      Rev. Robert Baker…Yes..its the law but its not working. The Christian religion is just being bullys again and whinning ” there’s a war on Christmas”.
      I don’t like getting into politics but..I’m not happy with both sides ..the Dems and Republican..Their both extreme.

      1. The Rev. Robert Barker says:

        Lea: Extreme conservative Republicans want to do away with the 1st amendment that states: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..” and make their brand of fundi-evangelical Christianity the official religion of the nation. Democrats, who are not extremists as you allege but offer no proof, are fighting to protect and make work this amendment which protects both religion and those who want no religion in their lives – the freedom to believe or to not believe.

  12. Robin White says:

    The problem is non-Christians celebrating Christmas!! It is a Holy Day for the masses who are celebrating the birth of Christ – hence “Christ”+”mass.”

    If you’re not a Christian – stay out of the Holy Day.

    They may choose to popularize, take our money, over-commercialize, big-business silliness to spoil children using Santa and his little elves using some other name.

    Shouldn’t even be allowed to have Santa, as he is St Nicholas, a giving Christian remembered for his kindness to poor children.

    Yes, the secular may have as many fun sprinkled “Happy family:friends days as they wish – but let us never confuse the two.

    The school taking Jesus out of Christmas is sort of like taking the ice cream out of an ice cream sundae… it cannot be done.

    They should call their pageant Winter Solctice Day, or some such thing…

    Have fun, buy your gifts, enjoy family and friends – it’s fabulous, but it is NOT Christmas!

    1. Minister Yaz says:

      Oh no no no, I don’t even know where to start.
      Ok Christmas is not your saviors birthday, all the historical evidence we can cobble together says early spring not midwinter, the early Christian church played dirty when it came to “spreading the word of god” it offered kings and lords power if they converted and a loss of allies and war if they did not, then it went out to the people and said “hey we are not the bad guys, you can keep your feast days, you just have to stop calling them after your gods and start calling them after ours and if you do we will make your lords give you the whole day off now too.

      Next Santa, sorry but he’s not yours either. Santa in one of his earliest myths is actually Odin who left treats and gits for children who put out food and water for him and his 8 legged horse.

      Taking Jesus out of Christmas is not taking the ice cream out of a Sunday its more like taking the nuts off the top if you cant eat nuts.

      And by the way no one is telling you that you can’t live and believe the way you want to go to your holiday mass, do your good works, honor you god however you choose. I will fight tooth and nail to defend your right to worship your God however you want in your home and your church. But by that same point I will not let you force my children to worship your gods in schools.

      No child should be foced to look at religions at school spiritual belief is a deeply personal and should only be taught at home.

  13. carrie says:

    Christmas was illegal in this country until 1836 as it was considered a Pagan holiday. As was mentioned above, if you want a more accurate date to celebrate the birth of Jesus, it would be in the mid-spring, not in the beginning of winter. There are so many faiths that have celebrations in December that it was easy to hide another. The early followers did that to avoid persecution.
    There is indeed a separation of church and faith, and thus it should remain for us all. I am not a Christian but, the rest of my family is and I enjoy watching the children open gifts, as well as family time and great food.
    If the day is sacred to you, keep it that way deep in your heart and spirit. If you are strong enough, you don’t need to attack others who don’t feel as you do. My faith is my own. If you are so insecure that you feel your holiday is being attacked, perhaps it is time to re-examine your own faith. My mother was the most Christian person I ever knew…she was open and embracing of all, and never complained that her faith was undermined by others. That’s because it couldn’t be undermined. Be like her. Keep your faith in your spirit and feel secure. Bright Blessings in this season of Joy, and may Peace be found in your heart.

  14. Gail D says:

    Birthdays generally weren’t even celebrated in breakaway branch of Judaism that became Christianity. When they did celebrate Christ’s birth, they generally did so in April and May (the lambing season). Pope Julius I, in the fourth century commanded a committee of bishops to establish the date of the nativity of Jesus. December 25 (the day of Sol Invictus, the invincible sun) was decided upon. Not coincidentally, that is the day when the pagan world celebrated the birth of their Sun Gods — Egyptian Osiris, Greek Apollo and Bacchus, Chaldean Adonis, Persian Mithra — when the Zodiacal sign of Virgo (the sun is born of a virgin) rose on the horizon. Thus the ancient festival of the Winter Solstice, the pagan festival of the birth of the Sun, came to be adopted by the Christian Church as the nativity of Jesus, and was called Christmas. Dec 25 is the first day after the solstice you can actually notice the sun begin rising a bit “closer”, and probably the origin of all the ‘god birthdays’.

    1. I says:

      I like your comment! I believe that those before us used the sky to tell the stories that we now know as Mary and Joseph and Jesus. I have trouble believing that all these things happened. living ln Whales and turing water into wine and lots of other things. They are from the IMAGINATION of those who read the clouds and stars and other heavenly bodies. Just saying..

  15. Jessica Martini says:

    I am a pretty easy going person, live and let live, but I’ll be perfectly honest, I don’t want to hear songs about Mohammad and Alah. At a public school concert everyone, parents, teachers and kids, are a captive audience. Don’t take advantage of the situation to push your religious crusade.

    1. I says:

      Exactly. I don’t want to hear songs about Mohammad or Allah or Jesus!

  16. Lionheart says:

    <<>>

    I didn’t know there was a tax on anything pubic! I’m not sure how this relates, but it’s very interesting!

    1. Lionheart says:

      My comment is related to Rev Barker stating “…shall us pubic taxes…”

    2. The Rev. Robert Barker says:

      Lionheart: Tax money, collected from the public (you, me, everyone else) are not to be used to promote or fund any particular religion, Christian or otherwise. To do so is to violate the 1st Amendment that clearly states: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..” A public school uses tax money to pay staff, pay overhead, etc and if it is promoting a Christmas pageant and/or choir concert with Christian sacred music it is using its public funds to do so and therefore violating the separation of church and state.

      1. Lionheart says:

        Yes, thank you. I was making a light hearted comment on his erroneous word reference of “pubic” taxes.

  17. Katie Kelley says:

    Fanatic atheistic LUNACY. I do NOT tell atheistics how or what to believe and they have no right to do so to me. HOW STUPID IS IT TO TRY TO TAKE JESUS CHRIST NAME OUT OF CHRISTMAS??????? No one’s attempting to force you to believe or to observe holidays you find offensive. YOU on the other hand have NO right to try to “steal” Christmas and take Jesus CHRIST name out of it. That’s insanity of a Trumpfian magnitude.

    1. The Rev. Robert Barker says:

      Katie Kelley: I am not an atheist, although I have problem with those people who are for they have freedom to not believe, but I am not a Christian in the vein of fundi-conservative so-called orthodox either. No one is taking Christ out of Christmas. You are free to say “Merry Christmas” send greeting cards that say “Merry Christmas”, put up a nativity on your own property, sing Christmas carols if you wish, listen to Christmas hymns and carols, have a Christmas party, etc. However, you have no right to expect the state or any arm of the state, such as a public school to promote your beliefs about the Jesus and or celebrate his birth. The state and public schools are supported by the taxes of all people and shall not be used to promote your your peculiar beliefs or anyone else’s peculiar religious beliefs, not even mine. Rather than trying to claim that there is a war on Christmas, which there is not for that is a fake story if I ever heard one, try living living up to Jesus’s teachings to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit those in prison, give care to the sick, help the orphan and widow in their need. That is to keep Christ in your Christmas, rather than trying to force others to believe as you do by using the power of the state. Happy Holidays, however you may celebrate them. Try love rather than hate for those different than you.

      1. The Rev. Robert Barker says:

        Correction to my post above: “…I have NO problem with those people who are for they have freedom to not believe…”

      2. The Rev. Robert Barker says:

        Correction to my post above: …I have NO problem with those people who are for they have freedom to not believe…

  18. Lynn Gideon says:

    Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter about church and state. It is not in the Constitution or Bill of Rights.

    The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prevents the government from making laws which respect an establishment of religion, prohibit the free exercise of religion, or abridge the freedom of speech, the freedom of the press, the right to peaceably assemble, or the right to petition the government for redress of grievances. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, as one of the ten amendments that constitute the Bill of Rights.

    Read more at https://www.themonastery.org/blog/2018/12/virginia-school-bans-jesus-from-christmas-concert/#d98lMR0zvcIjoIqz.99

    1. Harry says:

      The USA has always been known as a Christian nation. This is the way we have been since before the Constitution was written and we are still that Christian Nation.
      Except for the statement that Barrack Obama proclaimed when he was president and said “we are no longer a Christian nation” he was wrong then as well as his statement was wrong until we are no longer a nation.
      Yes our country has numerous other religions that have settled here under the guise of joining our country; they came to the USA to find a better world to live in. Christianity has left its imprint on the way we have always been the nation of hope, security, prosperity and love that is missing in non-Christian nations.
      Why are people trying to change our country’s success?

      1. Carrie says:

        We are not, and never will be a “Christian Nation”. The founding fathers never wanted us to be. Get your head out of your butt and study. Christmas was outlawed until 1836. It isn’t a Christian Holiday. If Jesus had been born on December 25, he would have been buried with every other celebration. If he was born at all, it was in April or May. What a douch.

        1. Minister Post says:

          Doesn’t any of you remember the pledge aligence in school.. It says, One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all . God is mention to us school back then. But all you politically correct idiots were so hurt by that they had to change it to appease the masses.. This is what weakened the United States…it doesn’t matter if you believe in God or not,, he believes in you and Jesus Christ is the only way to the father.

  19. cath O Lic CHRISTian says:

    You cannot HAVE Christ-mass without Jesus. Damn those fools to hell with Satan and his evil demonic horrors. Preventing people from singing joyful songs is in and of itself utterly evil…unless the “songs” are porno or hate inspired.

    1. Lionheart says:

      “Damn those fools to hell…..”

      That sounds like a very naughty thing to say coming from a Christian. It sounds like a few “Hail Mary’s” are going to be coming up in that confession box thing, and then straight out if the church into the pub.

      Tell me, do you go to the pub first, then the church, and then back to the pub? I’ve often wondered how that works for you god fearing catholic’s. Just asking!

    2. Tabz Jones says:

      cath O Lic CHRISTian, What a decidedly UN-Christian thing to say! I will never understand how a religion that claims to revere a man who spoke of universal love and acceptance has become so vehemently hateful. So many different (and much older) religions have celebrated the Winter Solstice for thousands of years. Long before Christianity, and the other Abrahamic traditions, were even born.

      You’d do better to actually follow the teachings of your Christ, and develop a better sense of tolerance and charity, than to spew so much venom into the world.

  20. Ralph J Miller says:

    Show me in the bible.where it says Dec 25 was the birth of Jesus….I’ll WAIT

    1. Annaliese Sora says:

      You will be waiting for a LOOOOOONG time 🙂

  21. Zerq says:

    christmas is a messed up amalgam of paganism and capitalist driven marketing with a tiny bit of christian stuff mixed in…
    decorating trees was once seen as so sinful as to be an instant ticket to hell because it was a pagan tradition…

    the santa clause figure is moslty coka colas invention borrowing form finish art of folklore figures (basically brownies)

    the red clothing may have originated with redcaps (seen in the overlord anime… basically they have to drench their hats in blood on a regular basis to keep alive so they are deadly killers… Satan Claws anyone lol)

    christians have provided some of the music… most of the rest they basically stole or borrowed whole sale…

    Christianity is basically all about cultural misappropriation until all other cultures die away to history.

    a bunch of bloody cultural vandals if you ask me!

  22. Duckin Acup says:

    Christmas, December 25, is not Jesus’ birthday. Although it cannot be pinpointed, most scholars think it was in March or April (using the modern Gregorian calendar. No known calendar puts his BD on an equivalent of December 25 or even in the December equivalent. There are christian “scholars” who claim he was conceived in April so had to be born 9 months later, but that theory is debunked by their own bible in all 4 gospels.

    As a federal holiday in the US, it is unconstitutional and should be replaced with something/some one important to the governance of the nation. Or simply removed from the calendar as an official holiday. That would not mean celebrations can’t be held – only that the government would no longer try to force Americans to be christians.

    And all the christians claiming Christmas is part of their worship – one of ya’ll show me in your bible where it says you have to observe or even acknowledge it. Or just show me the term “christmas” in your bible.

  23. Barry says:

    It’s a Pagen Holiday.Christians try to make it theirs.
    Let it Be…

  24. Saul Bettercall says:

    If you mention one religion, you must allow mention of ALL religions (including Satanism, dear friends).

    Why not keep religion for the churches, and learning for the schools?

  25. Merry Christmas to All!!! says:

    Hello Fellow Brothers & Sisters

    Christmas will always be Christmas – a celebration of Jesus Christ’s birth – how people celebrate it is on them.. most will celebrate with Christ and others without. If you are going to exclude mention of one religion – then remove mention of ALL religion… in celebration / in teachings / in acknowledgements & in this hyper sensitive crazy world we live in…

    Either include All – or exclude All…

    BUT — i you are going to teach about the religions of the world, then teach or share all religions – all the great things about each and every one…

    However you celelbrate – may it be full of love life and laughter – from our home to yours – may you have a very Merry Christmas & have a Glorious New Year!!!

  26. Ceri Ridenour says:

    Let’s get real people! It is not a matter of whether is is a church and state issue, the issue is that Christmas was illegal until 1867 because it was thought to be a pagan holiday. Which the truth is the traditions celebrated today as the Christian Christmas were fashioned from Pagan traditions to help convert the Pagans to Christianity because they refused to leave their old traditions behind upon joining the Christian Faith. This is a time when Christians choose to celebrate the birth of Jesus, however historic Jewish records show he was actually born in April. So everyone getting all bent out of shape about the downfall of Christmas as the Christian community knows it is foolish. Maybe you should be thinking with the mind of Christ instead of the the mind of Man. Honor him in your own ways and traditions. Jesus communed with the sinners, not judge them.

  27. Rev. Dr. Jayson Levine says:

    Can’t we all just finally admit or realize that Christmas is a plagiarized holiday, and enjoy our milk and cookies?

    1. Annaliese Sora says:

      That makes entirely too much sense. 🙂

    2. Tabz Jones says:

      *Gasp! How dare you bring logic into a religious conversation! LOL

      PS. I like Snickerdoodles 0.o

      1. Minister Post says:

        I love dark chocolate peanut butter chip cookies

  28. Annaliese Sora says:

    The “War on Christmas” simply does not exist. It is a phrase propagated by Bill O’Reilly to stir up Christian Fundamentalists. I grew up around this kind of propaganda and it is nothing but POISON that serves to divide people and cause hate and contention. Those who are screaming about “keeping Christ in Christmas” would do well to remember what James said true religion was…looking after the widow and the orphan, etc.. Perhaps they should also consider what Jesus said was most important (loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself). I do not begrudge anyone their religion, as mine is deeply important to me. However, I do not expect the public schools to instruct my children about Yule, Ostara, Beltane, Samhain, etc. Religious instruction ought to take place in homes and centers on worship. The public schools are not the place for that. If you want your child to sing Christian religious songs at school, perhaps send them to a Christian school.

    1. Zerq says:

      members of the early christian church would disagree… mainly in that they where the one fighting against it…
      daring to decorate a tree once was considered a one way ticket to hell by the early christian church X3

      wonder what Bill O’Reily would say about that lol.

  29. James C Riggle says:

    I’m sorry… this is getting ridiculous. It’s music, it’s a music choir, it’s Christmas (which begins with Christ). Students are too sensitive. Instead of talking about uncomfortable things… they just dismiss them. What are we raising our children to think? That you just have to silence every other opinion or different view. How will they be able to live in a world of diversity?

  30. Kathleen Barrett says:

    Why doesn’t everyone just shut up? Live and let live. Everyone should do what they want and believe what they want and the others, whether they agree or not, should just shut the hell up and mind their own business.

    1. Tabz Jones says:

      No one is saying that people can’t believe what they want, what they are saying is that it does not belong in state/federal funded school. There are plenty of non-denominational carols that can be sung and other holiday traditions that are indeed more secular and more populous friendly.

      If you want to celebrate as your religion dictates, then do so as you would wish others to do, in your own home and places of worship. Schools and public events should include everyone, that is what they are for. Not to praise one religion over another.

      @}~ Peace

  31. oldaabill says:

    It’s not a war on Christmas. It’s the war against Christ.

    1. Lionheart says:

      I’m not seeing how you can have a war against something that possibly never existed.

  32. Pastor John says:

    CHRIST MASS, end of story

    1. Rev. Andwyn says:

      “Christ Mass” as you put it was created in the year 336AD by the first Christian Roman emperor Constantine; before that, it was, and almost all its traditions belonged to paganism. Educate yourself reverend. PAX

  33. gdubjag says:

    So, we can have Christmas without Christ? So then get together and make a new reason to celebrate MAS as this would not include Christ. The other members should be the same idiots that voted to allow girls into the BOY Scouts which still makes no sense, but that is neither here nor there. Hey adults…..ask the kids if they want to stop celebrating Christmas for whatever BS reasoning you want to give them, but make sure you let them know that they won’t be getting presents either and school will not have a Christmas break….BOOHOO!!!! When exactly did this world as a whole become such a bunch of criers?? (Answer not required but feel free to chime in with some other type of BS. Before you do, remember this, I truly don’t care what you think or feel and I look forward to each day that my words offend some self-righteous idiot.)

  34. Minister Post says:

    Thank you Sir for telling like it is. Have you noticed the attack on Christianity. As a whole..Bible scripture says that the hearts of many will grow cold. Jesus said, and you will be persacuted in my namesake. Many will go on deceiving and being deceived.. God bless you Sir and your family this Christ – Mas.

  35. Pastor Dave says:

    Sadly Santa has taken over the December holidays. The Hallmark cards in the local Walmart racks does not display even one nativity scene/related card. How many kids younger than 12 can recite the Lords prayer from memory? How many like me see parents avoiding the baptizing of their newborn.
    We hear reports from Pakistan that Christians are being killed for their belief. Yet we are compelled to live in an “inclusive” society.
    It seems that day by day more and more Christianity is being destroyed. How soon before we take a stand, draw a line in the sand and say “No more”!

  36. Allen says:

    Shalom, it is interesting that many of the pagans in here got it right, and the Church Christian’s are clueless.
    Saturnalia a pagan practice where men died on December 25th, was renamed by Constantine’s group to Christmas meaning, anointed – departure. Look it up in history books under Constantine / Christmas. The Catholic Church continue the practice of killing the anointed person, the Christ until the year 400 AD.
    It has not always been the birthday of HeZeus/Jesus, and Jesus is not the savior of the world, Yahweh is. Isaiah 49 last verse, to those that believe in the Bible.
    December 25 has always been the birthday of the Sun (following a couple days after the solstice.)
    I saw on Facebook, one school made all the young kids pray to God/Allah, that should not permitted, or the Pagan practice of Saturnalia/Christmas, or any other religion.
    Shalom, Allen

    1. Minister Post says:

      But Yahweh loosely translated means Jesus..

      1. Dr. Darryl says:

        Yahweh is God’s own name

        1. Lionheart says:

          So is Yahweh his Christian name 🙂

          Does he have a surname 🙂

          1. Minister Post says:

            God has had many names through the different religions.

  37. fred klink says:

    ok, think on this kings queens made folks pay a tax to support the own the people had little choice right. from one is many look at how people died for letting it be known they have different ideas yet paid for their oppression by religious taxes from whom ever was leader that’s what old dead dude did not like paying to have a theocracy that’s Rome not a place of free men all the religious arguments are between each religion that wants to rule the world. everyone who said have a everybody time one thing that unites is capitalism make them green backs the ones in control are the ones placed in your imagination by the ad shrinks. who cares who stole old myths and claimed them as theirs they made it up. hobbits are cool. one man creates a tale and people sell their ideas of his made up world. yule xmas that’s chritmas no crist greek onited one it’s all words dog backwards is god lived is devil evil is live. history is never written by the losers right!

  38. Vee says:

    Have two celebrations on the same day: Christmas for the religious, “Santa Day” or whatever for those that just want a commercial holiday. If someone sponsors a Christmas pageant or some such, Christ will be in attendance. If it’s a Santa Festival, Christ will not be invited to attend. Something for everyone.

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