A billboard advertising for conversion therapy

LGBT youth are particularly vulnerable to the harmful effects of conversion therapy, which seeks to “cure” gay and transgender people.

In a major victory for the LGBT community, conversion therapy for minors is now outlawed in Washington State.

The bill, signed into law by Governor Jay Inslee, stipulates that any licensed healthcare practitioner who engages in conversion therapy with an individual under the age of 18 will be subject to criminal charges.

Washington becomes the 10th state to ban the practice of using physical or psychological intervention to change someone’s gender identity or sexual orientation. This latest development signals a continued evolution in public consciousness regarding LGBT rights.

What is Conversion Therapy, Exactly?

Originally achieving mainstream medical approval during the early 1900s, conversion therapy was for decades viewed as a legitimate strategy for “curing” gay people.

Early methods of conversion therapy were downright horrifying – involving such nightmarish practices as icepick lobotomies, chemical castration with hormonal treatment, electro-shock therapy to the hands and genitals, nausea-inducing drugs, and masturbatory reconditioning.

Modern conversion therapy (thankfully) looks much different, but that doesn’t stop it from being harmful. Newer methods revolve around associating shame and/or pain with same-sex attraction in order to dissuade individuals from acting on their feelings. Despite the lack of physical torture, such experiences can still cause deep trauma for those forced to undergo them.

However, public opinion has shifted significantly in recent years thanks to mounting evidence that conversion therapy not only doesn’t work, but can actually cause severe and long-lasting psychological harm.

That being said – even 60 years after medical professionals first began questioning its efficacy – it’s not difficult to find places where conversion therapy is still in use today.

Ties to Religion

The practice has long been endorsed by religious groups as a viable strategy for “curing” homosexuality and other “sinful conditions.” When approached by someone questioning their sexuality or gender identity, church leaders encourage them to attend therapy sessions to rid the mind of such thoughts and “get right with God.”

Faith groups like Focus on the Family have long advocated for the benefits of conversion therapy. Publications on their website include an entire series dedicated to ending same-sex attraction titled “Leaving Homosexuality.”

Protest against conversion therapyConsequences of Sexual Shaming

Now, those in favor of keeping conversion therapy legal argue that individuals should have the right to pursue any kind of therapy they want. And perhaps they’re right – as long as we’re talking about adults acting upon their own free will.  

However, LGBT youth are particularly vulnerable to the harmful effects of conversion therapy.  Religious parents who discover their child is gay will sometimes panic and seek out a church leader for advice. All too often, the parents are counseled that this “unfortunate condition” is potentially reversible through therapy, and off the child goes to be “cured.”

However, as numerous studies have shown, youth who are forced into conversion therapy invariably come out worse off. After being repeatedly told their feelings are “unnatural,” they may begin to question their own identities, become depressed, and, in extreme cases, suicidal.

Change on the Horizon

The tide appears to be turning – slowly. Washington State isn’t the only place cracking down on conversion therapy in 2018. Similar initiatives are moving forward in states like Maine and Wisconsin. Even individual cities are taking a stand – last week, Gainesville, FL officially outlawed the practice.

Although things seem to be moving in the right direction, LGBT rights groups don’t expect the fight to be over anytime soon.   



  1. Carl Elfstrom says:

    Now its time for the converters to make karmic restitution by being converted into homosexuals. They deserve a dose of their own medicine.

    1. Anita Rogers says:

      Lol that is an interesting proposition.

    2. pablo Fumero says:

      Stupid and ignorant. GOD DOES NOT CONDEM ANY FOR BEING GAY!

      1. Pastor Richard H. says:

        GOD Punishes SIN that punishment is Death.Death being forever out of GODS Grace On;ly JESUS can bring us to the Father. an GODS WORD SAYS homosexuality is a sin. Leviticus 18:22 reads, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”. This is clear to me.

        1. Russ says:

          Doesn’t Leviticus also say something about not eating shell fish and not working on Sundays? And isn’t there just as much emphasis on these two sins being no no’s as there is regarding to laying down with some of the same sex? Buffet style Christianity. Pick what fits your agenda and leave the rest.

          1. Christian says:

            it is probably just an evolution switch…
            billions of humans, you can lose a few millions to homosexuality, no shortage of babies being born…

            Bees are mostly sterile females… Perhaps homosexuality is just humans reverting to a more insect, hive mind. Not everyone is a Queen bee – gay worker drones give their lif for the Hive, accepting death of their own genes for the good of the Hive.

            Very nobel when you see homosexuality as a service, a sacrifice. As long as they are god people and do no crimes, jist as we would expect from breeders.

            DEFEND THE HIVE !

        2. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp says:

          Pastor Richard, I truly hope that you will seek out psychotherapy services, so that you may get right with the Lord, gain clarity over your spiritual blindness and fears.

          1. Pastor Richard H. says:

            What fears are u bestowing on me? I speak only a 3 letter word an it riles ALL these inner feeling’s of guilt on people Labeling me a blind bigot or discriminating against my neighbors when all I do is follow Jesus an his word. I would say to you Pray for the HOLY SPIRIT to help you see GODS word an for guidance about Sin.. For I don’t condemn only try to teach n guide . only GOD knows the hour of judgment not even the SON.

        3. Billy says:

          God is ashamed of you Richard H. Leviticus’ reference is disputed by scholars who know its real meaning. If you want to go back to old test, you need to burn your house down if their is mold in it, and if you have a fat ass your going straight to hell for that alone. You dont share love but hate. Its disgusting.

          1. pastor Richard H. says:

            First of all, that’s what’s known as an “argument from silence;” By this rule Jesus would be made to endorse rape, cannibalism and lots of other nasty stuff. What’s Really a Sickness is people Twisting Christ into someone who would Condone SIN Jesus could Not do that an Gods words are plain enough. All this writing your Own reality an expecting others to say Oh that’s just great. only gets you further from GODS Grace into the shadows. An those are loving words. even if you cant perceive that.

        4. Mike Tulley says:

          I can see my friends who are athiest’s have a valid point when it comes to one sided blind people like this person above, bigots beget bigots, haters beget haters ( so indeed this guy has a lot of hatred and bigotry that has been cooking in the pot for hundreds of years!) and they seem to think that their GOD is dead so they need to pass judgment on us. Their real god orderd that they judge not lest they themselves be judged by him/her. I have my own religion and follow no specific diety i simply call my higher power. I am an openly gay and married minister to my husband, I have read their bible from cover to cover several time (I use the red letter king james version myself) I know for a fact that we do not live in the old testament times, but somewhat in new testament testament times where their jesus ORDERED them to love their neighbors as he has loved them. Are they doing that? NOPE not at all! I have performed ceremonys all the time for gays, lesbians, Vampires, Warewolves, Dragons, and even straight people. I do not judge and only say what i see! I make it no secret that i am a Vanguard, my soul is very old being reborn into a different body each time my earthly body dies and i have always been born into a gay mans body every time. I was and always have been born this way and no one can tell me it was a choice, the only choice people make is to be bigots and haters and that is a choice! they pick and choose from their bibles to only say what they themselves choose to feel and i feel pity for them!

          1. Christian says:

            nothing to do with hate.

            Thee olde hebrew deity is a fertility god with a focus on farmong crops and babies.

            Typical early civilization mythology.

            Obviously if you want a larger herd of sheep or you want a large brood of human children, you gotta do sex correctly.

            Homosexuality is genetic suicide – every gay person commits genocide against their own grandparents.

            Oh well, lots of humans, you could lose 4 billion and still have plenty of humans left over.

            So no worry !
            Mother nature doesn’t worry,
            if extinction is your choice,
            well thanks for playing the game of life.

            I do hope you enjoyed your visit here on planet Earth.

            And we all do apologize for any discomfort you experienced while alive.

            Cheers ! & safe travels friend !

      2. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp says:

        Right on Pablo, God loves us all. we are a part of God and God dwells within all living things.

        1. Pastor Richard H. says:

          Oh I agree GOD LOVES ALL his creatures an wants us to spend eternity with him. He sent his only begotten son to give us a way to do it That’s how much he loves us all. Know one gets to the Father accept through the Son. Amen to that.

      3. Pastor Richard H. says:

        I just know what the Bible says an GOD Calls it an Abomination To me that’s a Strong condemning word. The reason for it is GOD said to go forth an multiply upon the earth. And That is not happening the gay way. My conclusion is GOD Doesn’t like it., but we have free will to do as we wish. Took me years to come to this conclusion.

        1. Billy says:

          YOUR god may say this, My god does not! Your religion is not the only one, and I know plenty of gods who are fine with being gay!! You should be more specific that this comes from your particular god, his rules are limited to your religious followers ONLY

          1. Pastor Richar H. says:

            You KNOW what GOD I speak of, He allowed his son to be Crucified on a giant wooden cross Not a wooden pole, For ALL mans sins even the sins of the gods you speak of. For he is Goodness an Love, He also forbids sin an Punishes it. He IS the Alpha an Omega The GOD of GODS Praise the LORD JESUS CHRIST AMEN.

          2. Christian says:

            Hebrew / Christianity
            is a fertility mythology.

            Farming, sheep, crops, children…

            It has a farmers bias throughout.

            No shame in dying childless and alone.

            Jesus loves the Alone and abandoned even more…

            The forsaken need Love the most.

    3. Pastor Richard H. says:

      Thoughts of lying with ones own Gender would appear to me as a Test from GOD Because He gave us Free will and Choosing to do this is a Sin. not only a sin but an Abomination Yes, homosexuality is a sin. Leviticus 18:22 reads, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”. GODS WORD cant be MORE CLEAR.

      1. David A Griffith says:

        Seriously? You are a Christian, but have to use the Old Testament to justify your bigotry? What did Christ say about others different than you?

        1. Pastor Richard H. says:

          Jesus said he didn’t come to change the law but to fulfill it, and he said Many things as to how we treat others the same an those who are different What are you referring to exactly? I Do know this though Jesus did Not Come to Justify sin or to Change GODS word But to Pay GODS Punishment for mans Sin an he Did on the Cross. If you aren’t a Christian you may call it bigotry but if you are devout I see it as preaching GODS word.

          1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, LCSW says:

            How do you preach, “Love thy neighbor as thyself”? How do you justify discrimination against others if you are a Christian”

          2. Pastor Richard H. says:

            How is preaching the word an talking about Sin discriminating? Love thy neighbor doesn’t mean not to point out Sin as written about. Jesus says we need to speak frankly to our neighbor He didn’t say speak to your neighbor but be careful they don’t get offended. I believe the Holy spirit is being Unrecognized an Confused with all these feelings of Offence an labeled as Discriminating. GOD said to go forth an Populate the earth How do we do that, unless it is a man an women.? People are Free to do as they please It is a Christians Mission to save souls an bring them to GOD through Jesus. I KNOW we make choices to be what we are . Thinking an acting are separate things. I leave you in peace.

        2. Christian says:

          it is not bigotry to quote a book.

          Like the Pope said,
          “Hey – I didn’t write this.”

          Communist Cultural Revolution loves to destroy what was.. but
          it is better to read and discuss it, not fall back on censorship.

          God is Love,
          so no need to hate, ever.

          What is, is – no need to worry.

      2. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp says:

        Did it ever occur to you that perhaps God is bisexual? If we are made in the likeness and image of God, then gender is all inclusive. Unfortunately, many fear-based Christians, have forgotten the words of their savior, “Love thy neighbor as thyself.” Additionally, being LGBTQ is aboiut LOVE, not sex, so why do you focus only on sexuality not being an expression of LOVE? Since Leviticus is your frame of reference how do you prepare your sacrifice for slaughter as outlined in Leviticus? Or do you pick and chose what you believe and lecture to others about “sin”?

        1. Pastor Richard H. says:

          Seriously? GOD S word For Bisexuality is Abomination, remembering this GOD is Divine an without Sin. so He cant be Bisexual you mention the 2nd great commandment but not the 1st You cant do the 2nd without the 1st. witch is to “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul an mind. The 2nd means as Jesus said can be found in Leviticus 19:9–18: I means Be giving in charity an Kindness It Doesn’t mean Sleep with or FALL IN LOVE WITH or Lust over, He also speaks of Reasoning FRANKLY with your neighbor .No I don’t pick n chose Jesus references Leviticus in answer to your question. So 2000 years later are we not suppose to point out Sin or Salvation ? GODS Word hasn’t changed just peoples avoidance of the words. if people are offended by those words It could be a sign things r happening to a persons spirit. I do KNOW We have choices .n love thy neighbor as thyself isn’t an invitation or a defense for our choices in this life.. Another thing is Jesus said to speak frankly with your neighbor not to deceive but be honest an IF one Doesn’t do that then it wouldn’t be honest. LONG Way round the barn is You can be frank n give an honest opinion an still love thy neighbor as thyself.

          1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp says:

            Where does Jesus address homosexuality??? What are his teachings about this or are you referring to the Jewish Bible, the Old Testament. Where is the word bisexuality even mentioned??? Sin is when people use religion to discriminate against others, judge them as “sinners”, plain and simple. How pathetic are those people who run around claiming to be holier than thou and yet forget we are all made in the image and keness of God. Bigotry is not acceptable to the Lord- now that is SIN. God love us ALL! S/he is the master of Creation.

          2. Pastor Richard H. says:

            Homosexuality in the New Testament Since you asked there are at least three passages that refer to homosexual activity: Romans 1:26–27, 1 Corinthians 6:9–10, and 1 Timothy 1:9–10. A fourth passage, Jude 1:7, is often interpreted as referring to homosexuality. If you are really asking to find out or just being difficult only you know. But read these an say it isn’t so.

          3. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW. LCSW says:

            The passages of the New Testament which you have graciously provided, are NOT Jesus talking-not in Romans);same for Corinthians and Timothy- was about Paul’s quotes, no words of Jesus regarding your claims. Stop with the false “references” in order to undermine Jesus Christ to further the agenda of homophobes. Jesus said absolutely nothing about this. Oh yes, and Paul writes about the women as “whores” – a true misogynist.

          4. Pastor Richard H. says:

            First of all, that’s what’s known as an “argument from silence;” a logical fallacy. By this rule Jesus would be made to endorse rape, cannibalism and lots of other nasty un-natural stuff. This is what people do when they have no one to answer to, they Pervert a Divine Being ,who by HIS Nature could NEVER Condone SIN as GOD the FATHER Stated it is an Abomination to lie with a man as if he is a women, But to see you an others paint Jesus as some hippie having orgies all over the promised land, You would have people believe The Son of GOD would be okay with SIN is perverse in itself. an any sober Honest person would see that. May he have Mercy on your souls Amen

          5. John D. Partin says:

            Pastor Richard H, how do you know that the Bible writers who wrote verses against homosexuality didn’t just put their own bigotry and prejudice into God’s mouth, in order to “sanctify” and “justify” that bigotry and impose their views on other people? Where is your proof that it didn’t happen that way? If Paul put his own agreement with bigotry against Cretans into the Bible, claiming it as “God’s words” (Titus 1:12), then we know that it happens in the Bible and so other quite obvious bigotry against homosexuals and others must also be from men and not from God. God isn’t a bigot and so if He ever says anything clearly bigoted, He didn’t put that into his own mouth, but it was put into “His mouth” by people, making Him say whatever they want Him to say, like a big ventriloquist’s dummy sitting on their laps!! So, prove that that didn’t happen!!

          6. pasto richard h. says:

            JOHN t PARTIN
            You really tried but I see behind the vail

            You Wrote
            God isn’t a bigot and so if He ever says anything clearly bigoted, He didn’t put that into his own mouth, but it was put into “His mouth” by people, making Him say whatever they want Him to say, like a big ventriloquist’s dummy sitting on their laps!! So, prove that that didn’t happen!!

            I will say GOD is ALL powerful in his Plan an his order.

            GOD Created MAN in his image an Women for Man because he Shouldn’t be Alone. He told them to multiply across the earth An you cant do that with the same tool belts.
            In GODS PEFECT ORDER He wouldn’t Allow a Saint or chosen one to lie

            Also its written about in the New Test. many times. I have Faith that as JESUS walked the earth Teaching an Performing Miracles I have FAITH that those who walked with him an were part of it would Do the right thing,
            you say Prove it I wont be tempted to prove it but I’ll give you my teachings

            Epistle to the Romans 1:26–27 (English Majority Text Version, EMTV):

            For this reason [viz. idolatry], God gave them up to passions of dishonor; for even their females exchanged the natural use for that which is contrary to nature, and likewise also the males, having left the natural use of the female, were inflamed by their lust for one another, males with males, committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error.

            6. Matthew 19:4-6 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh‘? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
            I think your question is more about You an your soul

          7. John Owens says:

            These are good and meaningful comments, Pastor Richard.

    4. John Owens says:

      But Carl, according to the morons, we are born either gay or straight, and nothing we can do or experience can change that. It is like predestination.

  2. Robert Driscoll says:

    Look, isn’t it at least possible that this conversion therapy stuff works? Maybe not all of the time, but some of the time.

    How else do you explain stories like this? https://www.themonastery.org/blog/2018/01/in-viral-video-ex-lesbian-claims-the-bible-turned-her-straight/

    1. Mike says:

      Just like any other form of brain washing, conversion therapy works sometimes. And, like other forms of brain washing, it is not a permanent “fix”, just another form of fear mongering.

    2. Anita Rogers says:

      No. Did you choose to be straight??

      I suspect that sooner if these conversations are really bi-sexual folks or individuals denying they’re truth for a social norm.

      Can you will yourself anything except who you are?

      Let’s take something simple. Lust. Can you will yourself to never at any moment have your brain float across that? I very you can’t. All you can do is correct it when it happens. That isn’t the same as changing who you are. You might change how you respond to it, that’s a whole nother ball game

      1. Pastor Richard H. says:

        All Mankind have sinful thoughts , Its in our nature GOD knows this It is what we do with these thoughts do we act on these thoughts or do they draw us Closer to GOD threw prayer. We can CHOOSE to Act in a Sinful way or NOT.

        1. John D. Partin says:

          Pastor Richard H, I’ll try again, since my first reply to you wasn’t put in here. Just tossing more Scriptures at me, when it is Scripture that is being questioned: about whether it always comes from God or many times comes from men who put their words into God’s mouth, doesn’t answer my question or prove that they didn’t do so and is circular “reasoning”. I see behind your veil (not vail), too: of hiding behind religious rhetoric and Scripture verses in order to avoid giving me a straight answer to my question. So, if you can contradict my proof that they put their words into God’s mouth to make Him “agree” with them and “sanctify” and “justify” their bigotry against homosexuals, and control people and impose their will on them with actual proof of your own that they didn’t do so, let’s see you do it. I would love to see that and will be waiting to read it.

    3. Profet says:

      Yeah and Clockwork Orange cured his violent tendencies. At what cost. What if we come to acknowledge that religion is a human invention, gods’ existence is unknown; would religious accept conversion therapy to rid themselves of their beliefs?

    4. Rev. Rene L. says:

      In the age of the crusades it was: Dieu le Veu!!! (God wills it!) In this age it is: AllahuAkbar! (God wills it!) When in Gods name will we stop??? God gave us free will, surely in the expectation we use it with a modicum of common sense.

    5. SeekerOfTruth says:

      > “How else do you explain stories like this?”

      People lie. A lot. Especially in Christianity people tell fantastic stories; about being devil worshipers or praising Satan or playing Dungeons and Dragons and being dragged to hell.

      Or ‘dying’ and going to heaven.

      Don’t believe everything you hear.

    6. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, LCSW says:

      There is no such thing as “conversion therapy” it is completely made up by bigots. Homosexuality is not a mental disorder, thus no “treatment” exists.. What is beneficial is helping members of the LGBTQ community to cope with the trauma of discrimination by those who use the Bible to discriminate.

    7. John D. Partin says:

      Pastor Richard H. you still didn’t answer my question of how do you know and how can you prove that Bible writers didn’t put their own bigotry into God’s mouth, in order to “sanctify” and “justify” it and control people easier with it and impose it on them? Just tossing more Scriptures at me, when Scripture is what is being questioned here by me, doesn’t answer the question and is circular “reasoning”. Also, you said that “In GOD’S PERFECT ORDER He wouldn’t Allow a Saint or chosen one to lie”, but He most certainly did allow a Saint to lie when He let Paul lie about the Cretans (Titus 1:12) and agree with the bigotry about them! If it can happen that time—and it DID, then it could happen again, and now prove to me that it didn’t happen again with verses against homosexuality. Come out of your religious indoctrination and mindset long enough to actually answer my question, and then you can slip right back into it and your comfort zone! If I see a murdered person’s body in a room, I can know for a certainty that a murderer put it there. Likewise, if I see bigotry in the Bible (and there is plenty of it!), I can know for a certainty that bigots put it there—-and since God isn’t a bigot, that only leaves you and your ilk from thousands of years ago and today who could have put it there. So, where is your actual proof (not just more tossing out of Scriptures, to obscure the issue and avoid answering the question) that these Bible writers didn’t put their words into God’s mouth, to contradict and counteract my proof that they did? I would love to read that and I’ll be waiting to see it, if you can actually give me a straight answer to my question and are sure enough and strong enough about your position to do so! Leave the Sunday school lesson at home or church this time and give me a sensible answer!

  3. T'Keren Valmaz says:

    Conversion therapy has another name, Its called brain washing. And the young are especially vulnerable to it. There is no need to and is very wrong to use mental manipulation to change a child in such a way.

    The same techniques used in conversion therapy can be just as easily used to turn a child into a killing tool for their masters.Which we see hints of frequently in the violence religious extremists use child soldiers to bring about.

    1. Stephen Waters says:

      With this argument you can say that education is the same. Brain washing.. I think that teaching a child that they are male or female and that we mate with the opposite sex only. Do we not “Brain Wash” children and adults that you do not have sex with animals? Why is that? I think parents should be more like parents instead of their friends and teach these kids that following Gods words is the best course for life.

      1. John Komorowski says:

        You ignorance is showing. You are what you are, gay, straight, or bi-sexual. The truth is “God” made them like this. Think: maybe he wanted us to learn to “love one another” as we are; to accept each other as human beings instead of so called freaks? As for beatiality, that is just weird, but I know of no gay folks who engage in such, but have heard od some straights that do. Why is that, hmmm?

        1. Lolo says:

          Very interesting and possible theory.

        2. Verl says:

          John “loving each other” has nothing to do with “Sex”. You can love your Sister or Brother with out ever having “Sex” with them. You can accept another with out ever having “Sex”. Anything other than Man/Woman “Sex” is a sin (A crime, if you will).

          1. John Komorowski says:

            I did not mention sex, did I. You love a person for WHO THEY ARE, get it?

          2. Verl says:

            Yes John I did not say you said the word “Sex”. But sir what is homosexual (Gay) without the Sex it is just Love. With out the sexual part it is nothing but friendship. That is not a sin, it only becomes sin with the “Sex”. God made us all, to love each other that is true and perfect. God does not make mistakes ever. When “Man” has “Sex with the same sex, that is the Sin.

          3. T'Keren Valmaz says:

            Sorry Verl but no book of mythology nor mere mortal human has any right to condemn nor revile others based on their consenting sexual interactions.

            The only sinners I see here are those using archaic outdated ideas to attack innocent people living life how they see fit when it hurts no one.

            May the void consume your soul and keep it forever in darkness where it belongs.

        3. Pastor Richard H. says:

          You r Male or female Having thoughts or being Sexually attracted to the same sex I s a Test of Faith, GOD has a way of getting our attention so do the demons, GODS Word tells us what decision to make, an the right path is mostly the hardest The easy way would be to lay with the same sex an listen to false truths such as I was born like this, Instead of seeking guidance through prayer an fasting if need be to get Closer to Jesus an have these thoughts washed away. We ALL have Free Will an with that Choice , Chose GOD or Not.

      2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom says:

        Why would anyone want to have sex with animals?

    2. Pastor Richard H. says:

      To me the only Conversion therapy a person needs is to be led closer to GODS word through Prayer an Fellowship. The answers to these questions Are all in GODS WORD. Free will scales our eyes to the truths most of the time an the easy path is just natural for mankind.

    3. John Owens says:

      Couldn’t it be brainwashing that makes people gay in the first place? Not necessarily intentional brainwashing, but some kind of indoctrination through methods of validation?

    4. John Owens says:

      Brain washing works, apparently.

  4. Rev. Ned says:

    Conversion therapy is BS. It should be outlawed.

  5. Tom says:

    Nobody is born religious either,it is forced or programed in

    1. Landonisms® (@nagast_amazin) says:


    2. John Komorowski says:


    3. SeekerOfTruth says:

      “We all know that any emotional bias — irrespective of truth or falsity — can be implanted by suggestion in the emotions of the young, hence the inherited traditions of an orthodox community are absolutely without evidential value…. If religion were true, its followers would not try to bludgeon their young into an artificial conformity; but would merely insist on their unbending quest for truth, irrespective of artificial backgrounds or practical consequences. With such an honest and inflexible openness to evidence, they could not fail to receive any real truth which might be manifesting itself around them. The fact that religionists do not follow this honourable course, but cheat at their game by invoking juvenile quasi-hypnosis, is enough to destroy their pretensions in my eyes even if their absurdity were not manifest in every other direction.”

      ― H.P. Lovecraft

      1. T'Keren Valmaz says:

        Nice to see someone reference HPL. Such a truly accurate statement of fact about the flawed basis for religion. It can not accurately be called faith nor honest belief when a child is indoctrinated to think that way and resist all other views.

    4. Pastor Richard H. says:

      One doesn’t need to be programmed to seek the truth or to have the HOLY SPIRIT Tugging on our thoughts an pointing out Good n Evil paths. We choose GOD or we Don’t. SIN or Don’t. GOD Gave us free will so we would CHOOSE to worship Him or Not Strive to be Righteous n Good or Full of Sin n Darkness. spirituality cant be forced it is a personal journey of ones Soul to for fill GODS plan for us to be Christ like .

      1. T'Keren Valmaz says:

        Pastor Richard you do grasp this isnt an exclusively christian centric ministry right? You are free to say you choose god but your statement clearly implies a view that those who do not choose as you are sinners.

        Thus you are guilty of the greatest evil of mankind, egocentric views.

        1. Pastor Richard H. says:

          That’s good of you to point out. I was reading through a lot of statements an was compelled to share my faiths word.an I stand by those statements My ministry Has the 3 Entities as its core an The HOLY BIBLE is GODS word. an GOD gave us all Free Will. an now you have used yours .

          1. T'Keren Valmaz says:

            The bible is not gods word, In fact it wasnt until the middle ages that saying that became a common church tenant .

            And which version of the bible do you use as its been edited frequently by men for a very long time

          2. Pastor Richard H. says:

            Well lets see it was written over a 1600 year span by 40 different authors from all walks of life from a pheasants to King, and yet it is all one book. Jesus who is considered GOD in the flesh came here without sin a divine being Well you know the rest You have to agree it is a Book Inspired by GOD. And as far as conversion therapy one has to have faith in something in order for it to work or produce the desired effect This I Know.

  6. Michael Spinelli says:

    No he cannot. Its a shame but society did this. No child can know if they should of been the opposite sex. Only God makes males and females. Not money hungry doctors.

    1. AKConiferious says:

      does “God” then get credit for money hungry church leaders and pedopriests?

      1. michael says:

        Nope, that’s called greed and it is linked to SIN For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of GOD.

        1. T'Keren Valmaz says:

          Mikey you have no right to say such things. If you wish to say you fall short that is your business. I however stand on my own second to no other being. My faith is in the energy that composes the very fabric of existence and as such your god is no greater then I or any other thing in existence.

          What you would call sin in me I call divine and you are not fit to say otherwise for you have already placed yourself as inferior to that which is divine.

          1. Pastor Richard H. says:

            GOD Created two Divine beings. Divine means without SIN The First was Adam. Adam Broke GODS Law by eating from the tree of knowledge of Good n Evil. Gods punishment for SIN is DEATH. GOD banished them from the Garden This meant Being Forever removed from GODS Presence this was Death. From then on man was Born with a Sinful Nature God sent his Divine son Jesus To accept the SINS of man an pay the penalty for man An the penalty for sin is death. ONLY a DIVINE Being/One without SIN could Do this Jesus paid for Adam an all mankind’s sinful ways So we could once again be brought back to the presence of GOD through OUR FAITH in Jesus Christ. SO I say to You placing ones self equal To GODS Righteous Goodness Is a Demon or the Devil at work for he made the Same mistake amen Free will scales the eyes so we Don’t see the hard truth. Truth being when GOD Wants your Attention he WILL Get it.

          2. T'Keren Valmaz says:

            Dickie H. I say unto you that you know not of which you speak as you have been blinded by the false words of men consumed by corruption and spout lies that they claim as truths.

            Jesus would look upon you and shake his head in shame to know that you have joined the ranks of such liars.

            You also seem very confused about what the ULC stands for which is an acceptance of all varied view points of faith and when you start speaking of yours as the absolute truth you lose the right to be treated with respect and make all you say invalid.

            The fact you seem to actually believe bibilical myths as fact such as the story of adam and eve suggests to me you are an ignorant creationist that belongs locked up in an asylum not acting as a guide to others as a spiritual counselor.

            So do consider just choking on an apple and doing the rest of humanity a great favor.

  7. jbschirtzinger says:

    Most spiritual traditions suggest sex is a distraction at best and harmful at worst. The only time that is not so is when sexual relationships are being utilized as vehicles to understand God better. Most gay relationships I have seen are not endeavoring to understand God better. If anything, these relationships seem to be formed as a consequence of rebellion to God or because of deep heartbreak. Each of those reasons has its own karmic trajectory for healing and experience.

    1. John Komorowski says:

      Your ignorance is showing, along with your slavery to whichever “god” you are worshipping. Bet your “god” whispers in your ear too.

      1. Joe Bill Schirtzinger says:

        I am sure God is not on a speaking basis with you. Neither shall I be.

    2. T'Keren Valmaz says:

      How very blatantly bigoted of you JB. I frankly doubt you know any gay people well enough to make an objective analysis and those you have witnessed are likely in communities that oppress and harass them.

      Id suggest you however abstain from all sex and procreating as you clearly are unfit to raise children.

      1. Joe Bill Schirtzinger says:

        Your personal impression and doubts about my life from across the internet don’t amount to much. Neither do your observations.

        1. T'Keren Valmaz says:

          Joe BS the same can def be said about the shiite you are writing here. Radical false christian tripe like yours has no place on the ULC forums, a place for all types of people and forms of spirituality.

          Your rhetoric of absolutism has no home here. So crawl back to the cesspool that spawned you and leave we that seek enlightenment in peace.

          1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp says:

            You are amazingly articulate about this and I truly appreciate your strength and bravery to attempt to enlighten bigots. When will these poor spiritually bankrupt men shake off their fears and accept there is no such thing as conversion therapy” ..does not exist as being LGBTQ is not a mental disorder, therefore no treatment.

  8. Rhonda R Lewis says:

    I don’t judge anyone! But I will say when this problem arises its my job as a loving person and a disciple of God to show the person Gods word. God hears prayers. Therapy is talking about it. God is a miracle maker and answers prayers. But if we accept this and know truth then we have sin.

    1. John Komorowski says:

      Oh, you want mayo or mustard with the bologna you are dishing?

      1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp says:


    2. T'Keren Valmaz says:

      You are not a disciple, No one alive today is, And it is questionable if even Jesus was. You are but a mere mortal and have no place trying to guide anothers path. You can but walk your own and strive to do so, so well that it inspires others to follow a similar path.

      Your idea of god is just one based on the rhetoric of other mere mortals using the idea to manipulate and dominate.

      To worship a god is to feed them your soul and lose any hope of living enough lifetimes to gain enlightenment.

      1. Pastor Richard H. says:

        Well its clear you may have been a plant or a butterfly or a man servant in your “former” lives( Sounds like Buddhism) but Jesus wasn’t a Disciple Jesus is the Lord an MASTER Disciples followed this Divine being’s teachings an Acts so they would become Like him. For filling GODS Plan for Believers to become more CHRIST LIKE in Spirit an SOUL. an to Fellowship with other Christians an to Receive The HOLY SPIRIT.an Eternal Life through FAITH in Jesus Christ Our LORD n MASTER Amen to THAT.

        1. T'Keren Valmaz says:

          Dickie Halfwit you do grasp that based on the ancient hebrew prophecy of the messiah Jesus would of had to bring world peace and unite humanity in his lifetime which he clearly did not.

          Thus why Rabbinical scholars then and now view christians as willfully ignorant by ignoring that simple fact.

  9. Craig says:

    It’s about time that movement disappeared. It’s the same principle as trying to make left handed people right handed…it doesn’t work and it causes more problems than it solves.

    Just let people be who they are and quit worrying about it.

    1. Anna says:

      Love everybody, and just trust God to sort us all out at the end. …otherwise, you’re playing God. God doesn’t need our ignorant creature suggestions! We don’t see the entire picture, so put down your stones!

  10. Patrick Bryan says:

    I was brought up by my parents and church not to judge people lest ye be judged. Judgement is left to only one person. God himself. I’m a very thankful person that I was raised to respect all kinds of people. I don’t know if people are born gay, but what I do know is God created them and however they are is how he meant it to be. Why is it people are trying to change other people just because they are different. Life for the current and future generations is tough enough already. Why for the love of God would anyone want to make it more difficult. White, black asian, latin, gay, lbgt, we are all created from God and as for as I know it’s for a good reason.

  11. Geneva says:

    For the word of God says we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness in high places if you looked at the days of Sodom and Gomorrah you will see that history is repeating itself because of disobedience this is a spiritual battle it’s in the mind they been deceived the the spirit of deception has overtaken them and because of their disobedience they have been drawn into confusion we must continue to pray and believe that salvation comes to their house Jesus loves them but he hates the sin and we know who is in control of sin the devil the Antichrist but I do believe with all my heart they will be saved and and restored back to their Heavenly Father if they do not Harden your heart I love all Humanity cuz Jesus loves all.

    1. SeekerOfTruth says:

      > If you looked at the days of Sodom and Gomorrah

      Ezekiel 16:49 — “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.”

      Sounds like right wing politicians to me.

  12. Bob Anderson says:

    What a relatively calm discussion group, especially given the topic. Maybe there’s hope for civil discourse after all.

  13. bob says:

    Since homosexuality is sin according to God’s Word, and God forgives confessed sin, then He, alone, can ‘cure’ homosexuality!

    1. John Komorowski says:

      Um, has he/she done so yet? I’ve been looking for him/her to solve the world’s diseases that plague humankind. But wait, didn’t god cause/invent cancer as well? Hmmm.

    2. Rev. Ned says:

      It is also a sin to get a tattoo, wear clothing made of different fabrics or eat pork or shrimp. Read ALL of Leviticus.

    3. SeekerOfTruth says:

      > “Since homosexuality is sin according to God’s Word”

      Google “lyings of a woman”

      It is actually toeveh, an unclean act. Another unclean act. is to sit on a chair previously used by a menstruating woman.

      The ‘cure’ for both is the same: a ritual bath (mikveh). That’s all it takes. No problem.

      There are many similar ‘sins’ in Leviticus and other books: shaving your beard, cutting your hair, not eating kosher, wearing mixed fabrics, eating fish without scales, eating pork and on and on.

      Almost everyone these days commits such ‘sins’ daily. “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”

      1. Pastor Richard H. says:

        Well its an Abomination was the Word so pretty Strong Sin but Sin is SIN an the punishment is the same .Jesus said these Words An he Did Not cast the First Stone BUT HE told her she was forgiven now go AND SIN “NO MORE”. You see we cant just keep asking forgiveness an tomorrow go out an Keep doing the same SINS.an not to expect consequences .Leviticus was GODS Words to mosses to tell the people how to act an give offerings .going deep into it now word not help you see the truth

  14. Christian says:

    It is a harsh word, but in its simplest form, it just means extinction.

    If you believe in Life as a Gift,
    it is just on loan to you.

    We are all each a single leaf on the Tree of Life.

    Thouands of generations suffered famine, plague, wars, storms, etc.
    to survive & pass the precious gift of Life to you.

    NOW is your turn. Live in the NOW.

    Abraham. Father of Many.
    If you follow Hebrew / Christian mythology, you are saying you follow a fertility god. This deity seems to hold a strong focus on raising up a specific branch of the species, “His Children”.
    “The Faithful”, “G-d’s Chosen People”.

    So, anything that murders His Children is thus classified as wrongful… as is any action at all that breaks the chain of life from one generation to another.

    If you are homosexual and enjoy that, by all means – Live happy & go in Peace.
    You are not required to be one of ‘His Children’, or make children. The Creator gave you free will.
    Your choice is yours.

    ‘Go forth, be fruitful, and multiply.’ is a personal decision. If you want your grand children to have many happy healthy children, well – you have to have children first.

    Homosexuality will not help you fulfill the biological goals of a middle east fertility deity worshiped by so many people today.

    However, you can worship the Creator in Art & Song, Poetry, and Dance. Humans express Creativity with their hands and their hearts.

    You can adopt, if you are selfless about creating life without your own genetic chain… Human DNA is all very similar.
    Adopting children is wonderful !

    Many children have no parents, and no home. Many women breed with careless men. These little souls are abandoned, or killed.

    Will you adopt children & give them the living proof of prayers answered ?
    YOU can be an answered prayer.

    Somewhere right now, children go hungry, have no bed, no room or home or family to call their own.

    ADOPT & give a child’s life a fighting chance… Defend the life of the fatherless, care for the widow and orphan. This is great kindness. ADOPT.

    If you have tried to overcome homosexual feelings – but can’t – remember that is why it’s called ‘temptation’ ! Just give it back to the Creator. Offer up ALL your feelings to God.

    Say Pray, ” I give these feelings to you my Lord, all my sadness, all my joy, all my hate, all my happiness, all my anger, all my silliness, all my lusts, and all my fears – I give these all back to you my God ! For you are my Creator, and have made me so. I give you my mind and all the thoughts in it. I give you my heart and all my feelings in it. I give you my life and my soul, do as you will with it.”

    Lust is still Lust in all its forms, and is just an expression of the natural drive for DNA to replicate itself…hunger & thirst. Controlled, all are healthy. Uncontrolled, all can be harmful.

    Give God your true feelings & God will give you Real Truth in return.

    If you want to be ‘Christian’ and follow Jesus – consider how Jesus lived and worked with others : building, feeding, healing, teaching, preaching, traveling the world. Helping others.

    As far as is known, he lived with 12 men and never took a wife. Very unusual for his time for a man to stay single.

    Why do you think he never married ?

    Reproduction can be done with biology or through society, with teaching… reproducing language and culture, values and beliefs.

    Be helpful to all and harmful to none.

    Teach Loving Kindness and helpful caring for this precious gift of LIFE.
    All of Nature, all plants and animals.
    All Life is such a precious gift.
    Enjoy the Bliss of Living !

    We hold it only for a moment…
    So create compassion and grace for all beings, always.

  15. John Fiedler says:

    I wonder on the billboard of the twins, which one is supposed to be the gay one?

    1. SeekerOfTruth says:

      Actually. this billboard is well known.

      They only used one model to be both ‘twins’.

      And he is gay. Seriously. Not a joke.

      You can laugh now!!!


  16. Leslie Gray says:

    When one has a question that pertains to an attribute of a particular group of people, the best course of action is to talk to said group and not go running off looking for answers from someone outside that group. I was raised by a fundamentalist Southern Baptist preacher father. At a rather young age, I made an attempt to inform him that I both liked boys and that I was not the male child he thought I was. As a result, he put me through horrendous reparative therapy “treatment” to save my soul from the devil, among other forms of what he called “my penance”. A few years before that, he taped my left hand into a sock until I began using my right hand, which resulted in a life long battle with eye and hand coordination problems that have disrupted my life to this day.

    Now, here I am, 63 years of age. Still very much transgender. Still attracted to men. And, not the least interested in practicing the Christian faith. Other people can believe what they wish. Their beliefs are not my business. So long as those beliefs do not impact me or the lives of those like me, I have little to say about what Christians do or do not believe. I found my “path”, quite literally in a forest. I am Wiccan.

    Religion can be a great healer for those that are allowed to follow a given path of their own choosing and at their own pace. Religion is not mental health science, or is it medical science. Religious beliefs are not a substitute for proper care of mental health issues on their own. Nor is religion a fit replacement for the rigors of modern medical research into the intricacies of human biology.

    There is a great deal of noise coming from certain churches and their associated organizations that they fear that their faith is under attack by new and “foreign ideology” meant to undermine the foundations of Christianity. That is an outright lie.

    Modern medical research is currently finding evidence that transgender people are born as they claim, very much like the way gay birth has already been found to be biological. But, acceptance of modern medical science threatens the patriarchy which many see as the foundation of contemporary Christianity. And, as a result they are afraid. There have been numerous examples of medical evidence in support of what I am saying about trans health in the news for many days now. Don’t take my word for it, look it up.

    I can honestly say from direct experience that reparative therapy did me no good at all.

    1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, LCSW says:

      I do want to say to you that I am sorry that you were exposed to a fake “treatment” made up by bigots. There is no such legitimate treatment approach as there is no mental illness associated with being LGBTQ. Those who have made a living off of such a fake approach should be sanctioned by their respective state licensing boards and not be allowed to practice. As far as some church/organizations being afraid of anyone undermining the foundations of Christianity, I would say, they are doing a good job doing it to themselves. How many times have we seen religious right leaders spouting anti-gay rhetoric and later we find out they are gay themselves. Or the worst ones who are religious leaders who sexually abuse children? These are a few examples of how these pretend Christians are destroying their organizations. Who would want to be associated with these zealot freaks?

  17. Ramos Cruz says:

    Conversion therapy doesn’t work with violent criminals either. They repeat their crimes until they die.

  18. Father Fred says:

    I think it’s absurd to think you can pray, medicate, or indoctrinate the gay out of a person. If God didn’t want the person to be gay, then he would deal with it without or prayers and desires.

    1. Pastor Richard H. says:

      Yes, homosexuality is a sin. Leviticus 18:22 reads, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”. GODS WORD Being said I believe that Thoughts an attraction to the same sex Is a Test of faith from GOD, To see how your Free will leads you EVERY person has Sinful thoughts or Images compulsions, Not all choose to Act on thoughts or urges I believe through personal prayer an faith in Jesus’s promises all burdens can be washed away. an we can decide to move in a more righteous way with the Holy spirit with us. Everyday an Alcoholic who is stricken with this disease Has to Decide with the help of fellowship an “BELIEF” in his HIGHER POWER Will he take a drink or Not . BELIEF -in their HIGHER POWER something or someone GREATER than themselves Its the same in Homosexuals Will You SIN or NOT? GOD’S Word is clear.amen

      1. T'Keren Valmaz says:

        Yeah Dickie Hitler you seem very certain that you know what the word of the Divine is when that book you take so seriously has been rewritten and edited so many times through the centuries it doesnt even resemble the fragments of the oldest known versions found,

        I am no christian, I have no sin that is your belief and if you try to put your belief upon me you violate my right to believe as I wish and betray the foundation of religious freedom that protects yours.

        Make war on others and see what happens to you little Dickie.

        1. Pastor Richard H. says:

          you are welcome to believe what ever you like to believe, No person is forcing you to become a Christian or any other religion. If you Feel that my words are condemning or singling you out Maybe its other forces inside that could be the Holy spirit at work I’m not sure ,Only you will be able to figure that out. good luck

          1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, LCSW says:

            Rev Richard H, please seek professional help. Why bring up the holy spirit after Rev T’Keren just told you that christianity of not his/her religion? .

          2. Pastor Richard H. says:

            Are you Attacking me or Christians in general when you say I should get Professional help? They said a few things when he interloped on a reply to father Fred. I sensed a lot of inner anger an hostility coming from him, he said he’s not a Christian an that’s fine for him ,but he never said what he believes in either. just that he is a divine being if he was created without Sin. To answer your question WHY I Bring up the HOLY SPIRIT. Its because I Am a Christian an in all things It is my duty to preach to non believers an try to Bring them to Jesus if I can . If I don’t make an attempt I have failed in Christ’s Mission. That is WHY. and If a person rejects JESUS after learning of him , It wont be my fault that they go to HELL. .The price of Free Will. Amen Oh an you’ll be informed that I have sought professional help years back for guidance in troubled times. one might call it conversion therapy So I know all about choices an free will.. The Trinity cleansed me of my urges through Prayer Now I don’t have to act on my Impulses an have lived a very happy life. I say Praise JESUS an AMEN.

  19. secretary3rdsecretary3rd says:

    Gay people do not produce children. No children and the church dies.
    Go back 2000 year’s ago and if you were a female, the day that your period stated you were married.
    In the Jewish faith you could be stone to death if you were marry and not with child. Any female who had a husband that could not be a man would seek one that could. It is not just one child she needed but each year she needed to be with child.
    Be a real big stud must have been very rewarding
    The Greeks and Romans said that any God who had a child with a human would be consider a half blood and only power of that God. So with Roman God shack up with the mother of Jesus?
    It is your religion!

  20. Randall Rodgers says:

    ^ um what an idiot. God did not mess up. Gay are gay. Gay are produced by “straight “ people. Geez get out of the Hebrew Tora and do what you were instructed to do by an intelligent person 2000 years ago.

  21. Gwendolyn Lord says:

    Oh how I love everyone quoting the Bible, and being so sure of what Infinite Spirit (God, Jesus) wants or condemns. Lets start with the Bible…..If you truly believe every single word is from God/Deity, then do you follow the book to the letter? You would then have forsaken pork and shellfish, your women would be in menstrual huts, and you would have multiple wives and concubines. (Old Testament).
    Didja all miss Jesus saying: “I come to bring you the new commandment of Divine Love”?
    He did not say judge others did He? Wasn’t there something said about glass houses/

    Also~~~Words written down by men, and a lot of oral traditions, transcribed into three or more ancient languages…Accuracy in the translations? Written by men with political, social and religious agendas? Accuracy?

    Now from a somewhat Darwinian perspective~~~Homosexuality is a naturally occurring phenomena in the animal world.
    A certain percentage of animals display this either as a dominance issue, or inherent behavior.
    Could it possible be Mother Nature’s mild attempt at population control? Across multiple species…..

    The early Jews had an imperative to survive….”Be fruitful and multiply”. Homosexuality would not produce heirs or
    offspring, and The Tribe would not increase. Therefore the prohibition against this and masturbation (by men).
    Multiple females breeding via one man was the norm back then. Should we reinstate this? Is this the sum and total of a woman’s worth?

    LOVING ONE ANOTHER is not a gender based or gender specific issue, not should it be.
    What is “Sacred Love”? Is it exclusively heterosexual, within marriage only? History would seem to indicate the answer to that is “NO”!
    Love is Eternal, and is not bound by gender conformity or cultural demands. We are who we are, and sexuality ad gender is a SPECTRUM, not just a male/female dynamic.
    Those of you who do not understand the points I have made here need to READ more, science, genetics, gender spectrum and sexuality diversity education, AND really get Jesus’s message of inclusiveness and acceptance of ALL except blasphemers in the Temple.
    News flash….It is a fairly good guess that Jesus as a rabbi and a man of His time was married and had children. Sex, long held to be dirty and for procreation only, was not held in that light until organized religions got nervous about inheritance issues within
    the clergy and organized religions. Judaism was not anti-sex. There was a whole lot of it in the Old Testament. The Early Christian Church wanted the focus on conversion and control, and the idea of forsaking the world and its’ pleasures guaranteed that priority would be given to supporting the church and its’ agenda of gathering wealth and solidifying power.

    All this meddling in other people’s bedrooms is archaic.
    No one can “make you gay” or “make you straight”. We are born as we are. As Deity or Nature, whichever made us.


    1. T'Keren Valmaz says:

      Right on sister Gwen. Speak it loud and clear and maybe one day these fools that buy into an archaic book written by manipulative men will get a clue.

    2. Rev Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW says:

      How true, you have cut through all of the bs hate filled bigotry.

  22. Rev.Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW says:

    There is no such thing as “Conversion Therapy.” It is completely made up by bigots. I am a licensed therapist and one can be sued for such a fabricated “therapy.” It is just an excuse for hate, plain and simple.

    1. Pastor Richard H. says:

      Okay tell me this what of those who want to change an not be the way they are , or think the way they do ? Like be attracted to the same sex or have relations like that what course of action should they take in a therapeutic sense?

      1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp says:

        Being homosexual is not a mental disorder, period and not even a choice. Counseling can focus on helping them to accept who they are, how they were born, including dealing with bigots who use the Bible as a justification to discriminate against them.

  23. Christian says:

    Happy people make happy children.

    It has worked well so far, so no reason to change that. Really simple really.

    If you decide not to have children you bring genocide to your branch of the gene tree of life. Good bye, you !

    So, oh well, sorry to watch you die childless… it really is sad to see any branch of Life snuffed out.

    Good wishes and have a nice afterlife !

    Such is life
    in the higher primates
    free will world.

  24. John Owens says:

    People are not born with a desire for sex, period. They want a teat to suckle, and to be caressed and made comfortable. That’s all they want at birth. They are not born thieves, murderers, artists, craftspersons, warriors, nurses, homosexual, heterosexual, nothing. They are babies, mostly equal to one another at birth, but born into different circumstances. Our sexual desire and orientations do not manifest for some years afterward, sooner if we are exposed or abused, later if not. People are just born. What they will become is imprinted on them by life, and by their own reactions and adjustments to it.

  25. Pastor Patrick B. says:

    The Bible also says that we are not here to judge, that is God’s job after we pass. He and only he has the right to judge not us mortals on earth. But as usual there are those who rather first condemn and worry about the rest later.

  26. Secretary3rd says:

    Gays do not bred. Without children in any church its membership drops and soon even God can not convince people that this church needs to survive Any empire needs to have a large population one is for an army, then to raise crops, then to have civic projects, but if everyone is gay and no one is born that empire dies.
    Many gays are developed over years, to have sex with one of similar sex is a lot easier then with the other sex. Gays know what will happen after dinner. Straights it is flip of a coin..

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