Sodom and Gomorrah by John Morris
Modern Christians often interpret the sin of Sodom as homosexuality, but many say that is inaccurate.

The following guest sermon was submitted by ULC minister Corey Collins. All ULC Ministers are invited to contribute their own sermons for consideration/publication. To submit a sermon, please email it to sermons@ulc.org.


"It's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" goes an old homophobic schoolyard saying. The Bible has long been used as a cudgel against the LGBTQ community, used to paint their "lifestyle" as immoral and unholy.

"But the Bible says homosexuality is bad" is at the root of nearly every anti-gay law in this country, from the legal fight against marriage equality to preventing gay couples from adopting children to keeping trans people out of the correct bathroom.

And one Bible story is at the center of much of the anti-gay fervor in Christian communities: the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, two ancient cities that God destroyed for their wickedness.

The sin of Sodom has long been interpreted as homosexuality. The English-speaking world sure took that definition and ran with it, as "sodomite" became a pejorative term for gay men, and "sodomy" a synonym for gay sex.

But biblical scholars aren’t so sure. In fact, many now say that the sin of Sodom wasn’t homosexuality at all, but inhospitality.

God Hates... Inhospitality?

First, a CliffsNotes version of Sodom and Gomorrah:

God tells Abraham that He’s going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah for their sins. Abraham begs God to spare his nephew Lot and other righteous people in the cities, and God agrees to spare them if ten righteous men can be found.

Two angels (disguised as men) meet Lot in Sodom, and Lot graciously lets them into his home, but the men of Sodom surround his house and demand to "know" the angels – in the biblical sense. Lot offers his virgin daughters instead, but this angers the mob. The angels strike the mob blind, Lot and his family are evacuated, and God rains sulfur down on Sodom and Gomorrah as punishment for their sins.

For centuries, Christians have narrowly interpreted the story to mean that God destroying Sodom because of the Sodomites’ desire to rape the angels is an anti-gay message, rather than an anti-violence, anti-rape, anti-hatred one.

There is further biblical evidence to back this claim up; Ezekiel 16:49 reads:

“Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.”

This evidence suggests that the primary sin of Sodom was inhospitality. Sodomites were a proud people, who refused to help weary travelers in need. Rather than welcome strangers into their town, they immediately try to rape them. 

Hebrews 13:2 puts a point on it:

"Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by doing that some have entertained angels without knowing it.”

The Real Sodomites

One must put this all in historical and cultural context for the explanation of inhospitality beyond the Sodomites’ destruction to truly make sense. At this time, in this part of the world, showing hospitality to strangers was a moral obligation. Travel was tough, and travelers were not only subjected to blistering heat during the day and freezing temperatures at night, but also at risk of hunger, thirst, robbery, and violence on the road.

The Sodomites showing such radical inhospitality to the angels was the grave sin that provoked their punishment – an interpretation that many modern biblical scholars now side with.

And yet because of this fundamental misreading, modern Christianity remains violently inhospitable to the LGBTQ community.

We hear phrases like “hate the sin, love the sinner”... but the nasty rhetoric against gay people continues. And in some cases, it's even getting worse

Christian lawmakers in certain places have prevented loving gay parents from adopting. Now, there are some concerns that the Supreme Court could potentially overturn gay marriage.

What’s more inhospitable than that?

Here's the uncomfortable truth: those who would use the Bible to beat down the LGBTQ community are – ironically – the real Sodomites.

113 comments

  1. Parson Golden's Avatar Parson Golden

    “ those who would use the Bible to beat down the LGBTQ community are – ironically – the real Sodomites.”

    Actually, those who would use the Bible to beat down anyone, or pick and choose which lines from the Bible they want to control others are the real Sodomites.

    1. James S. Mills's Avatar James S. Mills

      God said homosexuality is A Abomination, Not Bad!!!

      1. Keith Allen Steele Eash's Avatar Keith Allen Steele Eash

        I don't know what dictionary you're using but you're mocking God. It is a detestable act . It is bad. One that will.cost you eternal life because it mocks God. And even atheism would recognize is as an act against natural law just believing in biological science if you leave a divine being out of the equation. St. Pail said lying with another of the same sex is eternal death. Not a sin to be a homosexual but acting on it is or flaunting it in front of others.

        1. Sean Thomas's Avatar Sean Thomas

          I don't care what St Pail says. I refuse not to flaunt and hide in the closet.

          1. Rex Alan Ebnit's Avatar Rex Alan Ebnit

            Q: Was St. Paul saying that "lying with another of the same sex" would mean your blood line would end? That would explain why he didn't say it was a sin. At the time of Paul the world population was much smaller than now...which is approaching 6+ billion.

    2. flugo's Avatar flugo

      'parson': What an embarrassment you are to the title 'parson'! Obviously you ignorantly corrupted the term 'sodomite' to suit your biased diatribe. .

      Strong's Bible Commentary describes a sodomite as person, usually a devotee, to idolatrous prostitution; a licentious, unclean devotion.

      Your assertion that homophobes are sodomites is blatantly false, emotive in result, and and deserving of disdain.

      It's obvious you and 'crass' are of the same ilk who use generalizations to purport your blather.

      1. David Arthur Lewis's Avatar David Arthur Lewis

        Haters gonna hate.

        1. Joseph SCott Queen's Avatar Joseph SCott Queen

          Folk that don't know and understand God like to sound intelligent and important. It doesn't mater what they think or call us for it is ignorance They will be condescending and hateful in their words. God says homosexuilty is a sin. It is a perversion of His design. And YES, God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of same sex sex.

          1. Ronald George Horner's Avatar Ronald George Horner

            Anyone who purports to genuinely understand God is indulging in self-deception. This is not intended to be a condescending statement. Rather, it is a simple fact. Any of us can assign any meaning we choose to whatever we choose. Is what we assign - or the manner in which we interpret - truly God's will, or merely what we wish that will to be? I cannot make such a decision. Realistically, none of us can. We can only do our individual and collective best, and hope that our actions and decisions will be pleasing to our Creator. Perhaps we should all search for the meaning of God's Word and spend less time spinning that Word to serve our own purposes.

            1. Patrick Alois deHertogh's Avatar Patrick Alois deHertogh

              Well said. I've found reading about many religious beliefs very interesting. An feel I gravitate towards the " there is something because there is some things. Try to be as agreeable as possible. For any human too claim they know what is really going on is very arrogant. And to scold another. All we can state with certainty is the obvious. ??

    3. James E Blaine's Avatar James E Blaine

      No one is using the Bible to "beat down" anyone.

      The Bible is, for the most part, an historical document of many little books detailing the lives of not only the Jews but many, many, other historical, important people and ancient cities.

      It also reveal God the Creator's interaction with mankind and certain individuals beginning with Adam and concluding with his Prophets. After that, in the New Testament, or second half of the Bible, the birth of Christianity is depicted.

      God did lay down hard rules to live by and obey. In the Old testament he often did not withhold the ultimate punishment for those who mocked him or his rules and tempted his reaction....keep that in mind.

      And - if you have never studied the Old Testament in detail, taking your time and praying for guidance and understanding before each time you go to open the Bible, then don't try to quote it or misinterpret it. The Old Testament was VERY CLEAR in regards to God's rules and Commandments. There was NO ROOM for interpretation, so no attempt to interpret them should be made.

      Amen.

  1. Chris's Avatar Chris

    I've made this same argument many times and each time it's met with derision by people who love to pick and choose what to believe, typically the opposite of what Jesus actually taught.

    1. Joseph SCott Queen's Avatar Joseph SCott Queen

      If you're saying pick and choose to believe God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of homosexuilty is wrong? Then you are picking and choosing what you want to believe. And a shame to God. Repent and see that God is good and not like us sinners.

      1. Chris's Avatar Chris

        What proof do you have of your god's reason for destroying two cities? I've read the story and I've read several suppositions but nowhere have I seen any clear proof. Closest I've seen is god saying he destroyed them for being vain and not treating visitors well. Kinda like the good ol' US of A is doing right now. But nothing indicates homosexuality had anything to do with it. And frankly, any god that pitches a hissyfit and kills people because they don't bow down to him isn't a god I feel I need to honor.

  1. Dan Anderson's Avatar Dan Anderson

    There are so many passages misinterpreted as to being about homosexuality when historically and culturally had nothing to do with it.

    Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13 - About the condemnation of Canaanite religious practices using male temple prostitutes in their ceremonies.

    Romans 1:26-30 - The belief is that Saul/Paul was writing about an ancient fertility ritual to the goddess Diana, meant for improved crops and increased calvings and lambings. These ceremonies built up the participants where it would end in orgies.

    1Cor 6:9-10 - If people would actually look at KJV1611, there is NO MENTION of all of those not entering the kingdom of heaven being the 'homosexual.' That is a far more recent addition to newer bibles. So much for not adding to nor taking away from the Word of God.

    A little bit of knowledge can make far more sense when using historicity and cultural perspectives than modern terminology from ancient writings.

    If one is going to mow the grass, are they harvesting marijuana? Definitions change.

    1. Richard Darwin Richards's Avatar Richard Darwin Richards

      Freemasons had a lot to do with the King James version of the Bible.

      1. Crystal Burgos-Johnson's Avatar Crystal Burgos-Johnson

        Really? I wasn’t aware that the bi-sexual King James, whose patronage was responsible for this translation, was a Freemason. I always found his project ironic considering his persecution of “witches”. He devised some truly horrific tortures for men and women who did not agree with his governance, practiced holistic healing, held a degree of power in their community or who were simply different from those around them, e.g. eyes holding two different colors. Although King James could perform sexually with women his preference, like his late father’s, was for men. He elevated George Villiers from the second son of a sheep farmer to the first Duke of Buckingham.

        Robert Carr, formerly Kerr, was the 4th child of the 2nd wife of a Scottish landowner. However, he was a page for another Scotsmen who became a member of King James I court. He caught the king’s eye when he broke his leg in a tournament. It didn’t hurt that he was 19 and although he was not very intelligent, he was very handsome. He was wily enough to use his position as one of King James special friends to become the first Earl of Somerset.

        I think it more likely that King James I funding of the “ King James Bible” was a way to publicly display his piety, minimize the of his behavior, funding and rapid advancement of his favorites, provide a rationale for his never ending witch hunts “though shall not suffer a witch to live” and make his mark on the Anglican Church of England formed by Cardinal Wolsey at the behest of King Henry the VIII to acquire his divorce from Catherine of Aragon. Although his son with Ann Boleyn was stillborn, their marriage produced the Elizabethan age and one of the most brilliant and canny rulers in English history, Queen Elizabeth I. Two of her quotes stand out to me “ Though much accused of me, nothing proved can be.’ and “If I had but been born crested, not cloven, my Lords you would not do me thus” which succinctly sums up the treatment of women both then and now!

        The only other ruler who similarly shaped the British Empire with the aid of her consort Prince Albert was Queen Victoria. They are the only two English rulers who had periods in English history named after them.

        1. Connie J. Spicer's Avatar Connie J. Spicer

          What specific passage "from God" specifically states that homosexuality is evil or wrong? Look past the writer. Understand that there may be divine words, but the entire Bible is divined by men, harvested by MEN, interpreted BY MEN - not by God.

          Instead, if you call yourself Christian, re-read the words of Christ Jesus himself, who - when asked about the ten commandments offered that what we need to do is to love others as we love ourselves. Love OTHERS as we love ourselves.

          How much more simple can it be? If you can't abide homosexuality, then stop hanging around gay people. Leave them alone. Shut your trap and walk away. You break more commandments by attacking others verbally and physically, and guess what? God ain't gonna like that, is He?

          Best advice I can give is this - mind your own business if you don't plan to be kind or to love someone else despite what you may view as flaws.

      2. Joseph SCott Queen's Avatar Joseph SCott Queen

        Ah, no, Freemason's didn't write scripture nor promote a version of it. The KJV was good for it's time but out of date for today. Homosexuilty is a sin, it is not acceptable to God. That is why Homosexuals at large don't believe there is a God. We should learn to control our body.

      3. Keith Allen Steele Eash's Avatar Keith Allen Steele Eash

        Omg they did not.

      4. Patrick Alois deHertogh's Avatar Patrick Alois deHertogh

        Jehovah's witness. Forgot his name. Was up in the mason ranks as well as Mr Smith of the Mormons. I might have that screwed up maybe 7th day people. There was a interesting article in national geographic about 10 years ago. On how the king James bible came to be and its influence of scripture interpretation. Which more than likely. Is an interpretation of interpretation.

  1. William Dusenberry's Avatar William Dusenberry

    As the religion concocted by the Greeks, at the time of Socrates, are now known as “The Greek myths” so should the Judeo-Christian myths, which was written by British King James — be known as Judeo-Christian mythology.

    Besides King James — no one else is known to have recorded the Bible myths, and the same sort of GOP’ers who believe everything in the Bible are the same sort of voters who still support the fascist Trump.

    1. Richard Darwin Richards's Avatar Richard Darwin Richards

      so said Hitler...

      1. Nathaniel Robert Hunt's Avatar Nathaniel Robert Hunt

        Richard Darwin Richards Adolf Hitler said: "We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity. Our movement is Christian." The death camps had "Christian" chaplains for the guards and those killing the Jews

    2. Joseph SCott Queen's Avatar Joseph SCott Queen

      YESHUA was not a part of the Greek culture. Yeshua (Jesus) is real, and His words were written in Greek because they, the Greeks (gentiles) received Him as the only begotten son of God, the savior of the world. The Jewish people put Him to death.

      1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp's Avatar Catherine Ohrin-Greipp

        OMG, Jesus was an Essene Jew. Jesus was an anarchist, a seditionist and rabbi who tried to gin up the Hebrews to overthrow the Roman government. He was murdered by the Romans. That old story about Jews killing Jesus was an anti Semitic Christian lie to deny Jesus' real heritage. Jesus refused to teach non Jews/Hebrews. He wasn't Christian. Jesus' parents were both Jews as were his grandparents and so on. Yes, God is a Jew, not a Christian whose only son was Jesus. Let that sink in.

        1. Keith Allen Steele Eash's Avatar Keith Allen Steele Eash

          Omg If you are going to make statements make sure they're factual. Almost everything you said about Jesus makes you out to be an uneducated fool. Jesus was none of those things. First of all, God is not a Jew. He is God. Only his human nature is Hebrew. His Divine Nature is nothing. No culture. No ethnic identity. Etc.Of the above things you stated some were accurate. Yes Jesus was a Rabbi, He was a Hebrew, but only His human nature.

          1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp's Avatar Catherine Ohrin-Greipp

            You are a typical misogynist who resorts to name calling when you have nothing of substance to add. Get triggered much? God was a Jew and you obviously can't handle that. His son was born with XY chromosome which means Jesus received 50% of HIS DNA from each parent. But science and biology escapes your knowledge base. For Jesus to inherit XY chromosome, his father and mother shared their DNA. You need to start reading history of the Roman empire during the time of Jesus and what happened to him, He was a socialist and a trouble maker to the Romans. Get over yourself believing you know more than I do. What a sad man you are. Start praying to your Jewish God. Maybe God will open your eyes and make you treat women with respect.

      2. P. Keith Benefiel's Avatar P. Keith Benefiel

        According to all my translations, Jesus was arrested, tried, convicted, tortured and crucified by the Italian occupiers. They and their rich collaborators let Jesus get by with his seditious preaching, but when he messed with their bottom line by trashing their "pay to pray" operation, that was too much. The Jewish people had just welcomed Him into town big time, palm leaves and the works. Don't blame the people of Judea! It was the invaders that tried to "legally" assassinate Joshua.

      3. Keith Allen Steele Eash's Avatar Keith Allen Steele Eash

        Absolutely not. The Romans put Jesus to death. The Jews just wanted him dead.

  1. Alexander Arends's Avatar Alexander Arends

    I guess you can water down any sin you want. To suggest that the real sin of the sodomites was inhospitality is carrying it a little too far. The real sin was living with no moral compass in a world in which anything goes. I think it was the behavior of everybody in that entire community that was offensive to God.

    1. JaZe's Avatar JaZe

      The Being we call God is of such magnitude IT cannot be touched or offended by little human beings.

  1. Randy C Hamilton's Avatar Randy C Hamilton

    It probably was a meteor IF it happened. Just another baloney fictional story to try and control people. Most of the cool stories in that book were stolen from Greek myths: Zeus' flood, Poseidon's kids could walk on water, Romulus and Remus in a basket floating down the river and saved, etc. As Leonard's mom said to Sheldon's mom, "Read another book!"

  1. David Ciambrone's Avatar David Ciambrone

    Lot offers his virgin daughters instead. Did anyone notice LOT offered to make prstitutes of his daughters? God still liked him and god committed mass murder yet again. That doesn't say much for god.

    1. Sarah Covert's Avatar Sarah Covert

      No, he didn't offer to make prostitutes of them. HE couldn't make prostitutes of them- all he could do was turn them into rape victims. I'm 1000% sure the daughters wouldn't have said yes to servicing a bunch of wanna-be rapists. This fact right here is the reason Sodom should have burned. Or possibly God could have just struck down Daddy Dearest, who deserved to die for offering up his own daughters!

  1. Rev Ned's Avatar Rev Ned

    Ezekiel 16:49 doesn't say anything about "travelers". It specifically says they had plenty and did not help the "poor and needy". Kinda like American Republicans.

  1. Stacey Owens's Avatar Stacey Owens

    America are the same kind of people.

    1. Richard Darwin Richards's Avatar Richard Darwin Richards

      America is way worse than Sodom and Gomorrah!

  1. Nicholas J Page's Avatar Nicholas J Page

    Is there any scientific proof that gays were around in biblical times or that Sodom and Gomorrah were or not homosexually active.Why are we continually trying to alter the past and make people look bad.The past is in the past not the present or the future.None of it makes sense to me.

  1. Stephen Hoog's Avatar Stephen Hoog

    Actually the article overlooks another major sin in the myth of Sodom, though it's mentioned.

    Rape.

    Yes, inhospitality to the travelers is significant. But rape is the biggie. And this is nothing new. A UCC minister friend has argued these points for at least 15 years.

    1. Chris's Avatar Chris

      And considering Lot offered his two daughters to the crowd, if the intent of the crowd was to rape the visitors then Lot -fine upstanding man of god- threw his two daughters to be raped. How very noble of him.

      1. JaZe's Avatar JaZe

        Does one really believe everything in the Bible? That book borrowed plenty from older civilizations and myths and adapted them to more easily convert people from other religions. It is also full of wishful thinking. Some monks were for centuries the only people who could read and write and their translations from other languages were defficient.

        1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp's Avatar Catherine Ohrin-Greipp

          Agree JaZe 100%. The historical bible is a collection of tales written by scribes hired by Constantine who were aware of the ancient Sumerian clay tablets in Mesopotamia. They changed names of people and events. The historical bible is a somewhat plagiarized version of the Sumerian tablets. The "Holy Bible" and all it versions, should be viewed as a historical book, not as something to "believe in" because that is exactly what it is. Zechariah Sitchen, William Bramley among others, are scholars who have researched the Sumerian tablets and historical bible versions. The Sumerians wrote the original story of human creation and S & G and what it was about. People would be wise to study research about the Anunnaki. Staying stuck in a fairy tale mentality demonstrates lack of awareness of history and pits one against the other.

  1. Peter Bradshaw's Avatar Peter Bradshaw

    The men of Sodom’s interest in men is incidental: if they were raging homosexuals, Lot would not offer his daughters in return. Homosexual rape is the way in which they violate hospitality not the essence of their transgression. Reading the story Sodom as being about homosexuality is like reading the story of an axe-murderer and saying it’s about an axe.

  1. Richard Lee Cornell's Avatar Richard Lee Cornell

    Those two towns were built over Potassium Nitrate salt mines. When those mines peter out, they fill in the mines with trash from their households. When it caught fire, the explosions ripple across the mines blowing up the towns. Simpler to coal mines in the US that were dug under the towns above. If they catch fire the towns would be in trouble.

  1. Tammy Sue Peck's Avatar Tammy Sue Peck

    Seems to me that this person is wanting to tickle the ears.

    1. David A Foreman's Avatar David A Foreman

      No. That would be your average right-wing fundamentalist evangelical. Most of whom worship "Republican Jesus" and wouldn't know the real Jesus if he bit them on the ass.

      1. Joseph SCott Queen's Avatar Joseph SCott Queen

        David tell me who this Yeshua is. I would like to know if Yeshua is a sinner or a savior. Yeshua is the true Hebrew name of Jesus.

  1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

    Sorry but thats not what the Bible says and this clearly shows that the author of the article does not have any knowledge of which they speak.

    1. Russell Barron's Avatar Russell Barron

      Please share with me what the Bible says. Also, please share where the term homosexuality is mentioned in the Bible. Please enlighten me.

      1. Keith Allen Steele Eash's Avatar Keith Allen Steele Eash

        Why don't you get your butt of the seat and do the research yourself.

        1. John Condron's Avatar John Condron

          The point, of course, is that the word "homosexuality" does not appear in the bible, Keith. Russell is not asking Daniel to do research. He is making a point, which you appear to have missed.

  1. David A Foreman's Avatar David A Foreman

    This is not some new Revelation (pun intended). This has been pointed out for many decades, if not longer. The fundies have never cared. They never will.

  1. Rev Dean Stoner's Avatar Rev Dean Stoner

    I can say this, hell is hot. If you don’t believe that homosexuality is wrong according to God’s word then you will find out when you are slam dunked straight into hell. So many today want to change God’s word to fit their lifestyle when God’s word has never changed. You have to believe the entire Bible and not pick and choose as I’ve seen some comments here say. We are all sinners and we will all be judged by God Almighty, whoever Gods word gives us guidelines and guidance to live by. Why is it no one challenges the sin of murder, adulterous ways, drunkenness, or any other sins. But homosexuality is always challenged. I guess you have to ask yourself if your soul is worth saving and is it a chance you really want to take. Heaven or Hell, there is no in between and God doesn’t issue fire insurance. Take Gods word as it is and live each day more Christ like. Love God, love your neighbor and seek Jesus Christ, then you will find the truth in God’s word.

    1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp's Avatar Catherine Ohrin-Greipp

      Oh this is so sad. Hell as a symbol of forever pain and suffereing has been used to control people through fear. Fire is sacred, an entity to be resepcted. It proivides light, warmth and ways to cook food.Too bad Christians use it in a negatvie way. Hell is here on earth, not some place in the sky. Sin? What's sin? All these religous isms are to control people yet we see so much hypocricacy by those who claim to be religious. Organized religion destroy, is divisive and silly.

      1. Patrick Alois deHertogh's Avatar Patrick Alois deHertogh

        I wonder what people thoughts are about the coming of age Aquarius. 2140 or somewhere close. It seems the bible started with moses being bent out of shape regarding the worship of Taurus. Not sure the significance of the using rams horn makes it the official sign of age of ram Aries. But then Jesus came about when we entered Pisces. 130 years from now. As with every generation we predicted doom. And the craziness of the world today. Is it then beginning of set up for the new change. Seems I never hear anything regarding this. When I mention it to my associations never get a response.

    2. John Condron's Avatar John Condron

      Actually, Dean, the words of the bible have changed many times over the centuries. They started out as oral tradition, and many of the stories weren't written down for centuries. Anyone who has ever played "telegraph" knows that those stories changed many, many times. The stories of the "new testament" weren't written until decades after the putative death of Jesus. The early church wrote out entire sections of the bible as "noncanonical." The KJV of the bible was a very deliberate re-write, for political purposes.

      It is ridiculous to say that the bible represents the "word of god," and even more so to suggest those words have never changed.

  1. Richard James Polito's Avatar Richard James Polito

    The point is missed... Sodom was destroyed because no righteousness could be found there. Where there is no righteousness, there is only sin. In the N.T. Jude 1:7 a specific sin is mentioned... Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. In our time, the return of the Lord is likened to, as in the days of Lot and as in the days of Noah. In Noah's day there were scoffers and in Lot's day sexual sin was rampant, homosexual sin was specifically mentioned. The times we live in are heavy with scoffers and those who would pervert themselves and the innocent with sexual sin. I do not see where hospitality was abused here, the strangers were offered safety and protection, even at the expense of Lot's daughters.

    1. JaZe's Avatar JaZe

      Actually, as geology and archeology have found out those 2 cities were destroyed by nature not God. Why this obsession with seeing God in the human image? A Being that creates not just one but many universes is well above human pecadilos and shortcomings.

  1. Celene Breianne Cagle's Avatar Celene Breianne Cagle

    It saddens me to read these comments. So much negativity being hatefully thrown like daggers from everybody's fingertips. Are we not supposed be kind to our fellow man love thy brother etc....? Why do you all (well most of you) have to use insults and ignorance to attack the author. If you have an opposing belief system wouldn't it be better represented and delivered by educated and proper recognition of your beliefs? It's so petty when there are so many more important duties we as minister's own in our mission to inspire and spread the good word...

  1. David Weller's Avatar David Weller

    Good to know someone can read god's thoughts and intentions so easily. "I think...."

  1. Dr. Zerpersande's Avatar Dr. Zerpersande

    Yep, inhospitality clicks. It doesn’t rank up there with eating an apple.And certainly not the general bad attitudes that caused the flood. But inhospitality IS more than enough reason to wipe out two cities.

  1. Kenneth Wayne Lunsford's Avatar Kenneth Wayne Lunsford

    Are "we" trying to make ourselves to be Bouncers for God? Or are we being Ambassadors to invite others to come to Christ!

  1. Kelly Ann Saucedo's Avatar Kelly Ann Saucedo

    "Judge not, lest ye be judged..."

  1. Patrick Alois deHertogh's Avatar Patrick Alois deHertogh

    Since its extremely difficult to find out what was really written in this bible and the context of the meaning at the time. And words and sayings that have meant different things at different times. The translation from at least 4 totally different languages. And the changes that has been made to it because of kings or the religions that choose to interpret it to fit there story. My own life I've been affiliated with 3 very different christian secs.One thing I seem to remember is this god is the only one to judge. So we got any easy way out of this very complex old old problem. What I discovered after being very violent towards the community Because of something that happened to me as a child. After a few decades I came to the conclusion that being interested in another persons sexuality. Unless its one of wanting to be involved in it. Other than that its perverted to be concerned on what another does for sexual matters your going to deep. That's a little odd in my book. We can't seem to get over this. Very bizarre. There's some really devastating stuff going on in this world. And your freaking out about this??

  1. Cindy L Edgar's Avatar Cindy L Edgar

    When everybody figures out the Bible was man-made then everybody will figure out that it's fake the book was made by Julius Caesar or his people Julius Caesar is the one that wanted to be God and the only God there's many gods and goddesses I don't the one God thing I believe in all goddesses and gods I believe in what I see not what's in a book so stop choosing for everybody what they want to believe in or what path they want to take

    1. Ellen Adams's Avatar Ellen Adams

      Except for the Torah, the original 5 Books of Moses, in Hebrew. Supposedly written by God through Moses.

  1. Richard Darwin Richards's Avatar Richard Darwin Richards

    Somehow the atheists will find a way to blame Jesus for Sodom and Gomorrah.

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      Nope, because there is very little evidence that Jesus really existed, even though it's possible he did.

      As for S&G, they can find dinosaur bones from 200 million years ago, but they can't find the remains of any biblical characters from up to 4000 years ago, let alone any of the places mentioned in the Bible. 🤷🏼

      🦁♥️

      1. Richard Darwin Richards's Avatar Richard Darwin Richards

        There is also evidence of harsher global warming 200 million years ago yet "scientists" say now is the first time earth has warmed. Scientists are very fickle.

        1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

          The wonderful thing about science, using logic and reason, and testable data, is that it is always searching for more data and is constantly questioning itself to get answers to establish truth.

          It’s a pity all religions don’t do that isn’t it? They won’t, because they don’t want to rock the boat and find themselves to be in error, so ALL religions on the face of the earth, including yours, stick their pious heads in the sand, all of them claiming they have the truth, with no demonstrable evidence. Weird, right?

          🦁❤️

          1. Richard Darwin Richards's Avatar Richard Darwin Richards

            my religion is that people are evil and need healing. Evidence is shown all day every day that this is truth!

            1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

              It doesn’t matter Richard, what your religion says. Does it matter what Islam religion says, or Mormon religion says, or the Hindu relish says? All will say that they have evidence to show that human beings are evil. All everyone has is that man’s inhumanity to man has existed for hundreds of thousands of years. Possibly since the Stone Age. There are good people, and bad people. There are some good mythical deities, unlike yours, and there are some bad ones like the Old Testament god that was a genocidal, and infanticidal maniac. I’m sorry you can’t see that. If anything wants healing it’s your God.

              🦁❤️

              1. Richard Darwin Richards's Avatar Richard Darwin Richards

                Please give evidence of your "good" mythical deities.

              2. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

                HaHa...nice one Richard. I see what you did there! 🤭

                You're right, I have no evidence of any mythical deities, hence the preface of "mythical". All these darned deities flying around that people believe in with no evidence. It's hard to keep track of them all. 🤗

                🦁♥️

              3. Crystal Burgos-Johnson's Avatar Crystal Burgos-Johnson

                “Genocidal”? You seriously need to expand your research! I suggest that you look at the practices of the “god” Baal whose favorite sacrifice was young children burned alive inside a metal bill. He was worshiped by the Canaanites and the Jordanians. Neither Adonai or Jesus practiced child sacrifice. In the Bible God asks Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac in the place of a lame to show his obedience to the will of God. When heartbroken Abraham was willing to make the sacrifice God changed it into the covenant or bris known as circumcision. Ironically, both Jews and Muslims practice this ritual circumcision for their males as a symbol of their obedience to God‘s will. Not only did Abraham circumcise his Jewish son Isaac, he also circumcised his son with the Canaanite woman Hagar named Ishmael!This ritual continues to be practiced in both religions. However, Jews have been practicing it longer since the prophet Muhammad was not born until 550 AD. He incorporated this ritual circumcision into the writings of his Quran. Now if you are speaking of the 10 plagues of Egypt, pharaoh was offered a chance before every plague to release the Jewish slaves. It was not until the angel of death passed over the marked lintels of the Jewish people and brought about the death of the firstborn sons of the Egyptian’s. Only then did the Egyptian pharaoh release the people he had brutally enslaved for thousands of years. He’s still reneged on his agreement and chased the Jews all the way to the Red Sea which Moses parted in a miracle to allow the Jews to flee. When they had successfully crossed and the Egyptian chariots were on the seafloor Moses struck his staff and closed the red sea over the following Egyptian soldiers! The difference between our God and the God of other religions is choice or Freedom of will. The god of the Abrahamic religions offer that freedom of will and choice to all their adherents.

              4. Gary Stephen Lowden's Avatar Gary Stephen Lowden

                You need to continue reading Judges and Kings and Chronicles. Plenty of God sanctioned killing in those books.

              5. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

                Yep, genocidal. If you don’t think flooding the earth and killing everyone that existed, men, women, children, pregnant women etc is genocidal, I don’t know what is. Fortunately he let a drunkard and his family live. Go figure.

                As for the figures you mentioned that are only mentioned in your book, there is no demonstrable evidence Abraham, Moses, God et al, ever existed, or even real.

                All they are, are anecdotal information written about in a book. No one knows it those stories/tales were ever really true.

                Do you have any demonstrable evidence?

                🦁❤️

          2. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

            Such is the inconsistency and illogic of so-called "scientific and reasonable thinking" that people who can figure out that houses need to be built by people and even toothpicks don't happen until someone makes them happen aren't able to follow suit in their thinking to the obvious conclusion that the universe, which is trillions of times more complex than any house or toothpick or other human construction, needs a mind behind it trillions of times more than these human creations do!! Such is their mind-bogglingly lopsided "thinking" about this!! They have no problem with admitting that a house or a toothpick or other human creation needs someone to make it because that admission doesn't impose on their sovereignty or rule over their lives or make any moral demands on them or they wouldn't admit that any more than they admit that the universe was obviously designed and is maintained by a higher Mind and not just blind unthinking nature. This is their dishonesty and game playing. It is useless trying to talk actual reason and common sense to these people because their self-justification and self-centeredness keep any of that from ever getting through to them and it is just more pearls cast in front of pigs and water poured over rocks, which never sinks into them. Jesus talked to other self-justifying and self-centered people, such as these people, too, called the Pharisees, and never got through to them, either, except for Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea, who opened their hearts and minds to receiving and admitting the truth, common sense, and reason. These modern Pharisees could receive and admit the truth and common sense and reason the same way, but they never will, as long as they are stuck in their self-justification and self-centeredness. Sad, but true!!

            1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

              And the reality of what Jesus ever said is where? Assuming that is, the Jesus guy was real. 🤷🏼

              🦁❤️

      2. Keith Allen Steele Eash's Avatar Keith Allen Steele Eash

        There is plenty of evidence that Jesus existed if you'd do the damn research. Historians spoke of Him. If he didn't exist thevreligion wouldn't have gotten off the ground. Even Krishna existed in Hinduism. Buddha existed. Muhammed existed. Come on dude. Pull your head out. Jesus existed and is God. And the only person that said salvation was through him. Theology only exists within the realm of belief and faith. You don't have an understanding of either one in your heart.

        1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

          Thank you for your lack of understanding Keith as to what evidence is. I have done the research Keith, the question is, have you? Perhaps you could provide factual evidence who you “think” the historians were that you are speaking of, and while your at it, please make sure the historians you would like to list in your reply were contemporary to the time Jesus was supposed to be alive. You will find that there are no contemporary historians, who were alive at the time of the said Jesus, ever wrote about him.

          While you’re also researching Keith, please be aware that there is a Nobel prize waiting for the first person on earth to demonstrably prove any God is real…..even yours. Is your name going to be on the next Nobel prize Keith? If not, you might actually find that the person who needs to pull his head out might in fact just be you my friend. Thank you for your comment though, and I look forward to your educated reply.

          🦁❤️

          1. Keith Allen Steele Eash's Avatar Keith Allen Steele Eash

            I'm not in to giving evidence . I expect people to do the research. Why should I provide the answer. And God does exist. If you're to stupid to see the truth. I would never accept a Nobel Price.

            1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

              The reason you are not into giving evidence Keith, is the same reason why all religions on the face of the earth can’t give any demonstrable evidence to prove their God, and that is…..there isn’t any.

              It’s because there is no evidence Keith, is why every church is based on “faith”, that’s all they have. They would love more than faith Keith, but they don’t have anything.

              When you make a statement like “God does exist” you have to be able to provide absolute factual evidence to back up your claim. If you can’t do that, your claim has no substance to truth, which then makes you to be the stupid one for making a claim that you cannot back up with evidence. Again, you’d be the first person on earth to do so if you could.

              🦁❤️

              1. Patrick Alois deHertogh's Avatar Patrick Alois deHertogh

                Might have my numbers screwed up but i think it 4 people who at the time of Jesus confirmed his being. Sorry no names. But 3 were found being forgery. And the last was in how the statement written. Being something to effect that the word was misused. So there really is not proof of Jesus. I say maybe only because of Muslims have reference to him. But not of a god.

  1. Earl Leiby's Avatar Earl Leiby

    Reading your words lionheart is a complete waste of time. You miss the message of Jesus completely and your ego needs to be right. Not a good combination in my opinion.

  1. William J Comeau's Avatar William J Comeau

    It is funny (not in the humorous sense) that you pick and choose Bible passages to fit your narratives instead of preaching the chapter and/or verses as God intended. For instance, you chose Ezekiel 16:49 reads: “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.” And all you had to do was go to the very next verse which says: 50 "And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good." What do you suppose the "abomination" was? Either you missed, entirely, the story of Sodom or you are purposely bending the Bible to "YOUR" will and not God's. And if you had mentioned the previous verse you would have noted in your "sermon" (if you want to call it that) that: 48 As I live, saith the Lord God, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters." Clearly stating worse actions then Sodom. If you are going to preach the Word of God you must preach ALL of the Word and not pick and choose what you fancy to create a narrative to make yourself or others look more favorable. You should be ashamed. I will pray for you and for your congregation.

    1. Stephen Hoog's Avatar Stephen Hoog

      The abomination was rape and inhospitality. Simple. And obvious. And you made the case against your own argument. How kind of you!

  1. Crystal Burgos-Johnson's Avatar Crystal Burgos-Johnson

    In the Bible Sodom and Gomorrah is vilified as a place of evil behavior and excess. It is true that the angels of God were sent to judge the people of Sodom and Gomorrah. However it was not in hospitality that incited gods rage. If you read your Bible not only did they not offer hospitality, they threatened to rape and harm the angels of the Lord. Lot offered his daughters for the rape of these oversexed citizens, however they only wanted the angels. Lot welcomed the angels into his home and shielded them from the depravity of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah! It is for these actions that Lot and his family were allowed to flee the city before God rained down destruction. The angels directed them to flee the city making sure that they did not look back at God’s justice. However lots wife did look back and was transformed into a pillar of salt. If you read further in the story you will see that Lot’s daughters got him drunk and had sex with him so that they could have children. However, this was an act of desperation and the Bible in no way encourages incest!

  1. Richard Franklin Bryant's Avatar Richard Franklin Bryant

    Well you know if things keep going the way they are we are gonna find out, they were destroyed for being a lot of things among and on top wanting to have sex with the angels ie homosexuality. If you try and change the Bible to what you want it to say, I say good luck you will have to face Jesus in the end.

  1. Thomas P. Davis's Avatar Thomas P. Davis

    I would understand this verse Eze 16:49  Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. this way, Growing up I was always taught that idle hands were a devil's workshop. You thus have a formula to sin. Ecc 9:10  Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; since they were like most are today, you will end up serving the wrong master.

  1. David Wayne Yager's Avatar David Wayne Yager

    One does not read God's thoughts but instead conveys the messages that God lays on their hearts

  1. Rev. MichaelRS's Avatar Rev. MichaelRS

    The following is not to be taken as any indication of my personal belief or tolerance or lack of tolerance or position on the subject one way or the other. But the fact remains...

    On the issue of homosexuality, whenever it is mentioned in the bible or the New Testament (or if you're a Christian the whole thing is the Bible) it is never mentioned in any way that could be considered, or misconstrued to be, positive or affirming. Pretty much the exact opposite of that in each and every case.

    As various reasons are given in various books of the Bible for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah the only conclusion that we can reach is that it was for overlapping sins. Not just the sin of this or that.

    And what is sin? Well, that's a whole other missive. Here I will just say that in various parts of the Bible we are told what sin is.

    From here, if you are any part of a judeo-christian faith, my simple suggestion would be that you pray and ask God for clarity on the issue. And once you have that, once you think you are right with God on the whole thing then I would say go forth, be happy with your life on Earth and do what is right.

    Because we won't if the answer we got when we praief on the subject was right, either from God or the devil (take that literally or metaphorically as your faith will allow) until after we pass from this life to the next and we meet Him.

  1. Timothy Albaugh's Avatar Timothy Albaugh

    It is apparent that many are not reading or teaching from the KJV bible. Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth BIBLE.

    Turn to the Book of Leviticus and read it through 5 or 6 times. You might then understand the vial nature of LGBTQ. The LORD did destroy Sodom and Gomorrah for the perversion of man (Homosexuality) The In-hospitality that is spoken of here could be forgiven but as in Leviticus it is an ABOMINATION with man -man or man-animal woman-woman woman-animal. not a mystery, it is an abomination. It is sad to know that apparently is not being preached anymore. I pray that the LORD enlighten every soul that we could all be saved. There is only his truth.

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      It’s only a book though…right, Timothy? Who know what is true in that book….if anything.

      It’s like all the religions books, they are just full of stories/tales with very little credibility. Unless that is, you want to believe other religions books like The Book of Mormon, Quran, Torah, the Bhagavad Gita etc.

      🦁❤️

  1. Guy Sutherland McLaren's Avatar Guy Sutherland McLaren

    First you had to read the Bible with Holy spirit goggles to ubnderstand it, Now we need to read it draped in the progress flag. As I read it, Lot's bunch were not at all inhospitable, they offered wenches for sex, rather than the boys thatr were visiting. If refusing to have gay sex is inhospitable, consider me inhospitable,

    By the way, I am so inhospitable that I would not have offered my wife, daugfhter or anyone elses for that matter.

  1. Marathuzula's Avatar Marathuzula

    Good Xenia has always been important, of course they would steal such an important part of previous culture for this religion.

  1. James Lynn Jones's Avatar James Lynn Jones

    NEXT UP: An eye for an eye didn't mean justice. It meant give a blind person YOUR eye.

  1. James Lynn Jones's Avatar James Lynn Jones

    NEXT UP: An eye for an eye didn't mean justice. It meant give a blind person YOUR eye.

  1. Dianne McGuire's Avatar Dianne McGuire

    Please read Jude. It is the book before Revelation. Jude is the half brother of Jesus. It is one chapter and he (Jude) warns of "the danger of false teachers". He is explicit in refuting the idea that inhospitality was the sin God was angry about. Read the whole chapter but verse 7 specifically names Sodom and Gomorrah and the sins resulted in the weather of God. The book is short but addresses a lot of misconceptions. Thank you.

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      Diane, you are only getting your stories/claims from a book, which is not evidence of truth. We have no surety that Jesus was real, let alone Jude. As for any reality that the God you believe in is/was real there is still no demonstrable evidence to support the claim. Even your omnipotent God doesn’t seem to be able to physically show up in times of need, especially at children’s hospitals where many are dying of cancer. Human beings make a better attempt of taking care of them than your invisible God does.

      🦁❤️

      1. Keith Allen Steele Eash's Avatar Keith Allen Steele Eash

        Omg. You are the most illogical nutsacks that make the most outlandish statements based on no facts. There are plenty of facts to vack up that Jesus existed. One is called faith. Do your research.

        1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

          Try applying logic and reason Keith to your statements. No facts every come into play using “faith” as your criteria for belief. Have you ever tried crossing the road using faith alone? I can guarantee you always look for evidence that it’s safe to cross the road…..right? Bottom line Keith…no amount of faith makes anything fact. Perhaps you could try again and show us real facts to back up your claim.

          🦁❤️

          1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

            "No amount of faith makes anything fact"? Then why do you insist that your faith that the universe exists and is maintained without any mind behind it at all, when other mere unthinking things trillions of times less complex than it need a mind behind them and the evidence refutes your belief, makes your faith a "fact"? No actual facts have been recognized by you, either, using your faith as a criterion for belief. You don't make sure that it's safe to cross the road by looking both ways when you are coming up with illogical, unreasonable, and unrealistic "ideas" such as yours, but then chickens are known for crossing the road without looking to see if it's safe to cross, just to get to the other side. I was just trying not to point out and belabor the obvious about you! Try applying a little or really a whole lot of logic and reason to your own statements before telling anyone else to do so and you will start looking both ways before you cross the road and stop coming up with such insane "ideas" as you come up with now, and people will also stop mistaking you for a chicken!

            1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

              Heyyy, welcome back John. Where have you been?

              I don’t have faith the Universe exists John, I rely on our scientific evidence that it does. We can also actually see it, which is more than we can say for your God. That’s what logic and reason is John, it doesn’t rely on faith. Did you miss that class at High School, John? In fact, did you take any classes in science, chemistry, or geology?

              Keep reading your book of myth John.

              I see your God hasn’t turned up yet in any children's cancer hospitals to heal them all, to prove it’s real. It was just a simple suggestion previously mentioned by me. I thought he’d be up to the task. Obviously not 🤷🏼 When he does, I’ll start start replying back to you.

              🦁❤️

              1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                You do have faith that the universe is just here for no reason and without anything more thoughtful than unthinking nature responsible for it and maintaining it, which no other unthinking objects or forces are doing for themselves, and doing it a trillion times or more intricately and complicatedly than these other unthinking objects and forces are doing. Your not calling your faith a faith that the universe doesn't have a mind behind it, when the evidence says that it does and you can't prove that it doesn't, especially by said evidence, doesn't actually make your faith not a faith, but just makes you the same as the people whom you criticize who are believing things without evidence that you would accept as evidence, either. The laws of chemistry, geology, and science that you cite as "evidence against God" didn't come up with themselves, either, anymore than other unthinking forces did or can, but were thought up by some Mind much smarter than any human mind, since you or no other human being could figure all of that out or be able to interweave them together just right for our universe to exist, and so, obviously, aren't evidence against God, but verification of God. You deny that for the same reason that all other atheists deny that, not because they don't prove God's existence, which they do, but because God gets in the way of what you want to do and how you want to think, which are more important to you than the truth. Man's disobedience to God brings the evils down on the world and his own head, like termites chewing away at the house that they live in, until it crashes down and kills them. God can't get rid of all the consequences of our sinning, no matter how much you and others "think" that we should live in a consequence free world, such as cancer in children, terrorism, and other evils, as long as people want to go on sinning and ignoring God. Then they can have it their way and a world with all of these evils, but they can't have it both ways: sinning and no consequences from sinning. God has reasons that human beings can't understand for not healing all children in hospitals and solving all other problems, such as not freeing people from the consequences of their actions and that even evil can be used for the promotion of good, as with the Holocaust leading to the State of Israel and other examples. A world without any evils or problems at all would be a world with nothing to rise above and no mountains to climb or obstacles to overcome, such as slavery and racial discrimination were and are being overcome, and bring out the best in us, when we let it. We are the hands of God in this world and so if you want God to do more, do more for love and goodness and truth yourself, as Gandhi did, and let's make this the better world that you want to blame God for not making it and get involved in the world's salvation and redemption, instead of just complaining against God while doing nothing to make this world actually better! Stop being part of the problem and become part of the solution!!

              2. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

                As usual, you are still misguided, John, and that is your problem. I do not have faith that the universe is here for no reason, so stop being presumptuous and trying to put words into my mouth. I have no idea at all why the universe is here. And just like you, I also have no idea why life exists, all I know is that it appears that it does, from what we can "visually observe", which is more than we can say for your invisible god that you believe in.

                I'm tired of talking to you, John, because you don't seem able to show any physical demonstrable evidence at all that your god is real. Even the god you believe in doesn't seem able to physically show up. Until he does, John, there's point in talking to you. You are so deeply indoctrinated that you are delusory, and it appears that nothing can shake you from it.

                As Helen Mirren once said: "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective. Because if not, there is absolutely no point in further dialog"

                Enjoy your world of delusion, John. Please get well!

                🦁♥️

              3. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                You really are too easy to refute and don't even know what you are saying or thinking when you can't figure out that your saying that "there is no evidence of God" is saying that there is no reason for the universe, since there is, according to you, no Reasoner behind the universe for there to be a reason for the universe, which an unthinking universe is incapable of coming up with for itself. That isn't putting words into your mouth, but merely recognizing what your words are actually saying, which you are incapable of seeing and admitting or stubbornly refusing to do with the evidence staring you right in your face!! Your refusal to see or being incapable of seeing that a mindless universe isn't able to come up with a reason for itself, but needs a Reasoner behind it for it to have a reason for existence and for life's existence, makes you the delusional one here, along with all others who "think" the same as you, which you displace on to me and others who don't go along with your blindness and self-deceit to take the responsibility, guilt, blame, and focus off yourself. The physical evidence of God's existence is all around you in this world and universe, which didn't come up with itself or give itself a reason to exist and doesn't maintain itself all by itself. It isn't the universe's or God's fault that you close your eyes and mind and heart to the truth and logic and dismiss as "delusional" the only logical answer to the existence of the universe. God shows Himself every moment to people in love and truth and goodness in the world, when they open their eyes and hearts and minds to see Him, and don't ask Him to jump through their hoops before they will believe in Him. As for dismissing my message to you and refusing to talk with me anymore (oh, please, say it isn't so!!) because you say that I'm "delusional" (your displacement onto me and others to take the focus off yourself), that is just classic ad hominem argument: don't answer any of a person's points or questions, but just dismiss them as "delusional", etc., in order to avoid having to do so as an evasive tactic. You might as well start your posts here by admitting "I'm not going to deal with any of your points or questions here, but am going to be as evasive as possible and displace on to you what is actually going on with myself and being done by myself" and wear a sign around your neck everywhere saying the same thing! Your quoting Helen Mirren's sentiment is just one ad hominemist quoting another and since it's not convincing from you, it doesn't become more convincing by quoting another person to "reinforce" your view or piling them up like walls around yourself and is just the blind leading the blind! I'm very tired of talking to you, too, but do so for the sake of other people here and not for a blind self-justifying, self-centered, and self-righteous Pharisee, such as yourself, since you are a hopeless case! Try to give me more of a challenge next time.You won't succeed, of course, but it might make you feel better about yourself. Enjoy your world of delusion. Get much better yourself before telling anyone else to do so.

          2. Keith Allen Steele Eash's Avatar Keith Allen Steele Eash

            If you knew what faith was you could be intelligent. Faith and reason is the process one finds truth. Everything I do I do on.faith. It takes faith to get up in the morning to deal with idiots like you. I cross the road. Of course, I look both ways for idiots like you driving. If I didn't have faith I'd cower in the corner every day in fear. I have faith I'll make it through the day a d say thank you to God at the end of the day. Next time you cross the road I'll be ♥ waiting. You better have faith I don't run over you. 😆 🤣 😂 😹 😆 🤣 😂 😹 😆 🤣 😂 😹 😆 🤣 😂 😹 😆 🤣

            1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

              Actually Keith you are almost right. It’s logic and reason that is the pathway to truth, not faith and reason.

              If you went to school and took Science, you will know that science doesn’t rely on faith at all, and neither do the courts of law. All rely on demonstrable evidence to provide truth.

              Please never serve on a jury Keith, if you are going to introduce faith into your equation to find someone guilty, or not guilty.

              I am pleased to know that you apply logic and reason by looking both ways when crossing the road to ensure you arrive on the other side safely. You have given me some hope for your longevity by saying that. 🤗

              🦁❤️

  1. Keith Allen Steele Eash's Avatar Keith Allen Steele Eash

    To tell you the truth close to 6 times I've been called up for jury duty. Every time I've requested release from that obligation because I am a Catholic hermitbin a secular religious society. I cannot pass judgment on someone else because of a criminal act. Only God can do that. And I seriously don't want to be responsible for sending someone to death in a murder case in case they really were innocent because of only circumstantial evidence and no DNA. Atjo, I sadly admit passing judgement on stupidity with some of these comments. They lack logic, philosophy, and theological discourse. And sometimes historical reasoning. Even if I was an atheist I would adhere to natural law as the order of things. Therefore there would still be a moral integrity I stand on. Mother Nature did not create the right to take life in or outside the womb. We need to take responsibility for our actions even in the bedroom and on the battlefield We have reached that age that we need to take responsibility beyond our inelienable rights, because it goes to a higher source whether the Cosmic Force or God. There is a higher Source we answer to for our lack of action and childish lack of taking responsibility for our actions and decisions. God have mercy on our souls. Many are going to need it .

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      Again, Keith, where is your demonstrable evidence to back up your claim that any God is real, even yours? It seems that even the supposed omnipotent Christian God seems to be incapable of showing itself. If I was him, a nice start would be to show up at children's cancer hospitals and start curing them just to show to the world that a god is real. I think we both know why that is never going to happen don’t we. It doesn’t exist!

      🦁❤️

  1. Keith Allen Steele Eash's Avatar Keith Allen Steele Eash

    I don't have to show proof of anything because I don't argue with atheists. You can burn in hell for all I care. You just keep arguing the same point. Argue with God. I need to show no.proof. An Intellegent Being created all this . That's a misnomer. So if you can't logically do your own research through Philosophy and Theology then you're a lost soul. COMPRENDE. YOU'RE WASTING MY PRECIOUS TIME.

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