The following sermon was submitted by ULC minister Genevieve Reed. All ULC Ministers are invited to contribute their own sermons for consideration/publication. To submit a sermon, please email it to sermons@ulc.org.
For thousands of years, Christians have talked about God almost exclusively in a masculine sense. ‘Holy Father’, ‘King of Kings’, ‘He is Risen’, and so on. From Michelangelo’s The Creation of Adam to Morgan Freeman in Bruce Almighty, nearly every single depiction of God in popular media of the last two thousand years has unequivocally interpreted God as a man.
In many ways, that makes sense. The world of the past was very patriarchal, after all. And up until a few hundred years ago, depicting God as anything but a bearded, masculine man might’ve gotten you burned at the stake.
But the world of 2021 is much different than the world of 1621. I propose that now is the time to change God’s pronouns to the gender-neutral They/Them – and here’s why.
They Are Risen
For one, it’s just good theology. It’s clear that we’ve been misgendering God from the very beginning. Indeed, most Christians understand God to be a spirit, an entity, and not an actual person. When we say ‘He’, we know that God’s not literally a biological male, "they" are a divine being whose mysterious machinations are beyond our earthly understanding. We just say ‘He’ simply because we always have, not because there’s any theological basis for God to be a man.
The fact of the matter is, God exists beyond gender and language. There is simply no way to properly categorize Them in mere words.
Even global church leaders agree that God is nonbinary. The Catholic Church’s 1992 Catechism states that God “is neither man nor woman: he is God,” and the Church of England stated in 1562 that God is “without body, parts, or passions.”
“'All human language about God is inadequate and to some degree metaphorical,” said Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury. “God is not a father in exactly the same way as a human being is a father. God is not male or female. God is not definable.”
The Proof is in the Patriarchy
It’s all rooted in outdated gendered language. Let’s be honest, language shapes the way we think and view the world. And obviously, the world of the past was hugely patriarchal, so our language naturally reflected that reality.
In the last 50 or so years, we have made significant steps towards gender equality. But much of that gendered language still permeates our daily lexicon, serving to enforce the patriarchy: ‘Mankind,’ ‘you guys,’ ‘man-made,’ the list goes on.
If we continue to view God as a man, then men are the ones made in His image. Women, it is implied, are different and perhaps inferior. As Mary Daly said, “if God is male, then the male is God.”
In a world where ‘he’ is the default pronoun, women will always be marginalized. We have the power to change that.
And what better place to start than with the holy They above?
127 comments
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Dave J
But if we change god to non-gendered, how will the religious continue to subjugate women?
That's the whole reason for the designation of god as a male. Men wrote the bible so they could keep those women in line.
The bible that tells you one thing, and one thing only was written by fallible men.
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Daniel Gray
And you are delusional if you think that as different parts of Christianity have women priests and Bishops, meaning they are leaders in that church. Nice try at a complete myth
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Rev. Dr. G. Waldron
Genevieve Reed’s sermon is really good and well argued. I agree with much of it, but do we really need to refer to God as they? Certainly the Godhead/ Trinity can be referred as they, but each has a persona that id distinct. Christ took on a human image of a man while on earth. The Spirit has no human designation and is called a spirit or ghost (KJV).
God is referred to many times as a father who has the role of caring and protecting his family. For me I am comfortable with the millennial terms of the Godhead.Perhaps the early Catholic Church venerated Jesus’ mother Mary to fulfill a need of having a woman close to the Godhead.
I, however, do not think their is any wrong if someone wants to use they/them. After all:
Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness….
27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
[I am glad so far the comments on this subject have been cordial and thoughtful, rather than the typical attacks and rudeness.]
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Rev Mark D
How about "It?"
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Rev. Dr. G. Waldron
Doesn't seem appropriate in English, but might work in Russian.
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Rev Mark D
Russians already have a god, and it's clearly a him.
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David Paul Weigel
I was going to quote genesis. Thank you for bringing that up.
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Stacey Owens
God is a spirit, not a gender. Man in the flesh is not in the image of God, but created man after His image and after His likeness first on the sixth day after the spirit. The form of man was created from the dust of the ground after the day of rest on the earth on the sabbath day (seventh day).
God is a spirit only. His ways are not our ways nor are His thoughts our thoughts. We need to stop bringing God to the level of man.
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Lionheart
So, in your mind Stacey, if “God is a spirit” and has “no gender”, why do you refer to “His” image 4 times? Why have you genderised God, saying it doesn’t have gender then keep referring to it as male? Can you see how indoctrinated you have become?
Secondly, for your argument to have any credibility, which now has gone from your first paragraph anyway, you have to demonstrably prove any god, even yours, is real. Reading a story from a book is not evidence. We can all read books, penned by mankind, but do the words they contain make them to be truth? I’m sure you mean well, and thank you for your thoughts.
Yours truly Lionheart, a real Him/His 🤗
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Tammy Sue Peck
God the Father, is how Jesus Christ speaks. If it was to be they/them. Jesus Christ would have said it so.
Father is a male…no exception to this fact.
Science provides proof that only males can be fathers, just as females can not supply their own sperm to fertilize their eggs.
The church that is willing to compromise logic, needs to be abandoned.
It’s sad that these churches are willing to do the work of satanic beings to lead people down the wrong path.
The Bible has many prophetic words concerning the church and deception in the last days, and these are the last days without a doubt.
I am praying that the ones being deceived are put under GODS conviction and understand that they need to turn to Jesus Christ and repent.
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Lionheart
Thank you for mentioning the word “logic”. Perhaps by using logic, reason, and critical thought, you can demonstrably prove your deity, or any deity, exists? If you can, you’ll be the first person on earth to do so, and can claim the Nobel prize that’s waiting for the first person to prove it.
As for words from someone you refer to as Jesus, written decades later by people who never met him, is of course pure conjecture. We have no idea what he really said, and there’s actually very little evidence he was a real person. It’s an interesting story, very dramatic though, but I prefer Harry Potter any time, especially as it’s much better for children, and nowhere near as gory, and has far better morals than the mythical god character that’s in the Bible story.
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John D. Partin
CHL, I'm not interested in or expecting any reply from you, since you have said that you are through conversing with me and I also have no more desire to talk with you and read any more of your illogic, but am only speaking to other people here, who are still open to receiving and accepting the truth. Evidence of God's existence and evidence that you would accept as evidence of God's existence are two entirely different and polar opposite things because you have closed your mind and heart tightly against any evidence for God's existence, since His existence would impose on your freedom to think and do whatever you please and make moral demands on you and mean that your will isn't all that matters anymore. That is the real reason why people have always denied God's existence, and then just covered that real reason over with pseudo-scientific pretensions, as you do, to make it look "more reasonable and respectable". You would have to open your heart and mind to the truth to ever be able to see and accept it, which you are far too hard-hearted and hard-headed to ever do, and so just go on in your blindness and reap what you have down from that!! The evidence of God's existence, for those who can see and admit the truth, is the complexity and design in the universe, which unthinking nature is incapable of doing for itself. A word to the wise is sufficient and so this is all the proof that the open-minded need for God's existence, but no amount of words will ever be enough to prove God to you and others who have no eyes to see, ears to hear, and minds to think.
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Frederick John Chiarello
The gospel were written by Matthew,Mark, Luke and John. All in some form had seen or followed Jesus. Matthew was Levi who Jesus told to follow him. Mark followed Peter and also met Jesus. Luke was a researcher who followed paul on his missionary journey. Paul was called by Jesus, when Jesus appeared to him on the road to Damascus. He He made him the Apostle to the Gentiles. So all these writers were accurate in their recording of events. And yes they are historically accurate as well.
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Lionheart
Frederick, you are mistaken, there is no evidence who wrote the books you are referring to as gospels.
https://zondervanacademic.com/blog/who-wrote-gospels
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Doctor Loyal
If you wish to just be argumentative, that does not reflect any respect to those who you address.
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Lionheart
I merely point out facts that should at least be considered before making statements that bears no evidence. I’m sorry you see logic, and reason, as argumentative and disrespectful.
Educating people to bring them out of their religious indoctrination can be very upsetting can’t it?
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Rev Mark D
Why not "It?"
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JaZe
IT has been used, I dont know of any language other than english that uses a neutral so how to solve the problem? He/She/It and Father/Mother God are also being used. The Creator, the Divine Being, the Supreme Architect, etc are also used, but none is satisfactory.
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Antonino Puglia
Seriously, please, be who you are but enough, HE or Him let our GOD be in our Hearts,pray to God and for YOU IT WILL BE YOUR GOD ,Stop 🙏
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Ty Ford
"Their" is plural. To use it for an individual is grossly incorrect. If you want a new word, make one up. If you ever refer to me as "their", you won't like the results.
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Lady Celynia
This. I agree it is time to come up with a proper gender-neutral singular pronoun.
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Brian Edelmann
I've always preferred "Infinite Intelligence"
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Kathryn Darcy Smith
The energy and infinite source from which we come and of which we are connected, is a non-ego non-organic non-genderable or quantifiable energy. The gender issues involved are 10000000% IRRELEVANT. The writings of such a "god-source" that are gendered are written by humans who in language and art tend to favor gender due to the HUMAN experience to which they are currently a part of. This whole topic is laughable!
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Elizabeth Crouthamel
It is Definitely Time to "allow" the Divine to represent All Life. They/ Them suits me just fine. Thank you for posting.
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Michael G Woram
Christians believe there is one God so there is no need for a collective pronoun. Using plural pronouns invites a polytheistic implication that will probable create more trouble than it solves. Why not just refer to God as God. Alternatively, we already have an gender neutral pronoun: it/its. Right now it implies an object rather than life forms human and above but that could be overcome. Or we can always come up with new words that imply humanity or divinity but do not imply gender. Why not some variation of Thy/Thou? At least they are familiar. If we are going to change the language we should move in the direction of precision. Using They/Them implies the plural which is moving in the wrong direction.
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Duane Joseph Smith
As a Polytheist I view them as the Divine Couple, both a God and Goddess was in the beginning of creation. As my views come from the pre-Christian era, we should remember that in the eyes of the Divine man and woman was created equal. Actually many European creation stories state man and woman was created together, not separate from each other. As it takes Male and Female to create life, why would we not accept a Divine Couple at work?
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Rev. Jim Sutton
Rather than debate gender, look at how many blessings end with "In the name of the Father, the Son, and Holy Ghost." It's a trinity; the Holy Trinity. Based on that, then the whole "They/Them" pronoun use is logical.
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Ryan R. Shaw
Even as a gay man, nonbinary plural pronouns are difficult to me. Is it not possible to eliminate pronouns altogether?
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Thom
Who says the three are real? There is only a book to tell us what happened and it has been edited too many times for me to believe all which is said in it. But, I would like for you to prove to me how a man can be a woman and a woman can be a man. I mean, just because they believe it or just because they say it does not make it true. The facts are the facts.
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Gary James Thomas Garrett
If God becomes neutral then all the misogyny wont make any sense.
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A Michael Piper
The Creator - Do you need a pronoun? I avoid the God word in that it has been corrupted to some sort of pre-defined reality, subjective and relative. The question is fundamental physics - Did mind come from matter - matter come from "Mind". <--The Creator Defining what The Creator is, is irrelevant to our reality, it seems to me. It is most likely an understanding currently beyond our comprehension. No one of US can comprehend all of Creation (the Universe of Universes). To even imagine we can comprehend or define that requires a level of hubris that has been our species ball and chain.
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Jessica North-O'Connell
I am so happy that my sense and understanding of the Divine is not tied to "... I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me," a vicious god who condones war, violence and abuse among humans. I left the Church at the age of seven because I could not abide this concept of Divinity, presented to me in Bible studies and Bible class; I then became a Seeker and subsequently found the Divine through personal numinous experience. When a seven-year old knows these behaviors are wrong, how is it that "god" does not?
Yes, we are definitely overdue for a re-visioning, not just a re-wording. A concept of the Divine which holds no place for any of humanity's genders except one ("male") has no true place at this point in humanity's evolution; and, regarding gender/plural-referencing, it's probably a good time for us to revert to the translation of god "creating [hu]mans in OUR likeness."
King James Bible "And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." - Genesis 1:6 (I seriously doubt that refers to the human-made "royal we.")
(And what kind of a fantasy-driven mind could ever believe that Woman was born of Man? And if so, why aren't men birthing all our offspring?)
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Doctor Loyal
If your personal belief is to rub bacon fat in your navel while chanting the alphabet backwards, and referring to Them/They, I hope it makes you feel fulfilled. Please respect all beliefs and refrain from indicating that you, yourself, has the only direct line to the :Holy of Holies.
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Jessica North-O'Connell
Correction: Genesis 1:26, King James version
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Reverend Gary
Really? ! ? ! ?
And I thought splitting the atom was a monumental task, which took 5 years 11 months 14 days. That is based on the date Albert Einstein wrote the letter to President Franklin warning him of the Nazis nuclear program, that the US should start our own, and the date proving the atom was split-able and did not actually cause the entire universe to collapse into the created black hole.
How long will it take for ya'll to split this hair? The truth is none of you know at all. You are all taking a Wild Ass Guess, WAG. I would like a show of hands please for those of you who were present a the alleged moment of "creation" and the documentation to prove that. I would also like a show of hands for those of you who have proof positive of the "gender" of the creator. Oh, and by the way, any bibliotech does not count as any proof of anything, except how many people have changed the written content of said bibliotech information.
Now, a show of hands please? . . . .
As I knew, none of you were there and none of you have any real proof. You have not yet remembered who you really are. Until you do, this discussion is totally meaningless which actually means that it means nothing, rather than just less.
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Wendy T Christy
I have been saying that God is the life energy of our universe for years. Of course I have received numerous crazy looks but it always has been that feeling when I see the beauty of our planet and stars that makes God so much more than people realize. Infinite!
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CB Cuff
'It' seems most appropriate to me, we're not referring to a human being as it is. A god is a symbol - a metaphor
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Kenneth Kevin Johnston
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Robert Edward Szekely
For those who accept the concept of God in their faith, they must recognize that God transcends gender, because God created the categories of Man and Woman. There are sections of the Bible where God already speaks of themself (autocorrect suggests "themselves" here, but in this context, I would argue that "themself" is a more accurate construct) in the third-person plural "We" (this happens even more frequently in the Q'uran).
"They" is an accepted convention in written rhetoric, instead of having to choose "he" or "she", alternating between the two, or using the awkward inclusive bi-gender construct "s/he".
In Hebrew, God is sometimes addressed as "Elohim", which is a plural form ("Gods") - like the different Angel designations of Cherubim ("Cherubs") or Seraphim ("Seraphs").
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Kenneth Kevin Johnston How do you determine is someone is make of female?
You should get your head out of your Bible and learn about the world you live in. We, including you start life as female. If the testosterone levels are high enough in womb a penis begins to develop. But God makes mistakes. 1 out of every 200 births result in some sort of sex abnormality. Some people are born with a penis, breasts and a vagina. Some men have breasts which can express milk.Your bible may never change your mind, but the world you live in will.
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Daniel Gray
um sorry but no. thats not how biology works and if you tried that line on a medical doctor they would not only laugh you out of their office but they would also suggest very strongly that you either take biology courses or seek mental help or both
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray Dude Please provide some credible evidence to support your claim. If you ask any doctor who specializes in genetics, sex-endocrinology, or human development or human sexuality you will find you are wrong.
Here's a talk given by a person who considers herself a women, has ovaries and balls. She is just one of many people God screwed-up during development. So if a person has balls, breasts and ovaries is that male or female? J
https://www.ted.com/talks/emily_quinn_the_way_we_think_about_biological_sex_is_wrong?language=en
Take a look at Jamie Lee Curtis she is what you would call a man, she is a hermaphrodite.
Jamie Lee Curtis has an X chromosome and a Y chromosome, and if you don't know your genetics XY is male. Jamie Lee is a was born s man but has a female appearance due to a genetic defect in her X chromosome. She is just one of thousands were God screwed up.-
Daniel Gray
Dude, we are NOT talking of a woman who wants to be a man as that is the ONLY way what you claim can happen Do try again
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Daniel Gray
Oh and one more thing there guy, I dont know who told you that Jamie Lee Curtis was born with both male and female sexual organs but whoever did is a darned liar. Ms. Curtis never made such a revelation during an interview or public appearance and her parents never made any such claim, and I know for a fact her Doctor NEVER made any such claim as it would have violated the HIPAA laws and put his rear into a federal prison for 20+ years and he would have lost his medical license. And jamie's one child was born the natural way and her other child was adopted.
Try your myth someplace else.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Dude how can you be so certain she's not intersexed? As you said that would be a violation of HIPPA laws. If you know for certain and have proof you are violating HIPPA laws.
Intersexuality is a reality; some children are ambiguously sexed at birth, With intersexuality occurring in 1.5-2% of all live births there's a 2% chance you are intersexed.
I will ask again, what's your of God's definition of when a person is male, female? Do you still believe God doesn't make intersexed individuals?
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Daniel Gray
And exactly HOW can you claim she is when neither she nor her parents have said any such thing?
Do try and keep up?
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Daniel Gray
ABSOLUTELY NOT! I am NOT going to change anything. I am getting pretty sick and tired of cancel culture idiots trying to change things they dont like. Get OVER IT. You are going to be offended in life and then you die, its just that simple. And others rights do not end because of your feelings. You want to do this then fine you do it. But DO NOT come here and try and ask/demand/require/or imply that the rest of us has to follow your stupidity just because you feel something should be changed.
Give me a few pages of space and I will tell you how I REALLY feel about this absurd post and idea.
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White Owl
Amen.
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Zaklina Blazevski
Bravo. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Perfectly said!!! 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
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Lionheart
Characters in a book!
Who know if the many authors intended them all to be male or female? Personally, I would have preferred the deist character to have been a Goddess, but that’s just because if my heterosexual traits. I didn’t like the story, it jumped about too much for me, and it became very disjointed at times. It was also much too bloodthirsty, and definitely not a book for children, especially as the deity had a tendency to kill children, and wanted to have foreskins removed of male genitalia. I mean….how does one sensibly explain that to a child? As for the semen emission of donkeys, why on earth would anyone weave that into a child’s book, or any book for that matter? 🤷🏼
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Dr. Darryl G Dykes
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John P Maher
YEAH and ITs ALL B S !
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
I don’t want to give the appearance of “being arrogant” but when one knows, as I do, that my “Secular Humanist Pantheist”;(SHP) Religion is the best possible religion — because SHP’ism e a les me to know, tat everting I like (or, might) do is good; and vice versa, anything I don’t like to do is wrong.
And SHP’ism enables those who’d like to have a provable God (which SHP does) to have one — which in terms of the proper pronouns, makes SHP'ism Ideal.
Because the SHP God, is the same as nature, and nature doesn’t have a gender, the SHP God, can either be called God, and/or Nature.
Thomas Jefferson even mentioned the SHP God, in his “Declaration of Independence” as Einstein did, when he was asked if he believed in God, to which he answered “my God is the God of Spinoza.”
And Spinoza is credited with being the Renaissance’s first Pantheist (though the Greeks, at the time of Socrates, had also concluded that Pantheism best describes reality)
Some say “Mother Nature” In much the same way Thomas Jefferson did in the Declaration of Independence, when he referred to “Nature’s God.”
However this might become an issue of contention after everyone who wants a provable God, instead of all the current ineffable Gods), decides to discuss it.
Most people prefer a provable God (as SHP has) and those have ineffable Gods, will inevitably loose such ineffable Gods to science — so it’s just a matter of time, before anyone who’s not a SHP’er, will be called an atheist (as Romans called Christians who didn’t believe in the Roman Gods).
So, if you don’t know what ineffable means, look it up — before you tell me that your ineffable God, make more sense than the SHP God.
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Robert Edward Szekely
"Ineffable" refers to those things which cannot be described in words, but which must be experienced to be known and understood.
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Lionheart
Your first 10 words William says it all, but unfortunately you do.
Thank you for your comment though.
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Chaplain Shawn
Does Dr. Dunceberry has a problem with grammar? I think he does, or should I say they/them does?
Last sentence is grammatically incorrect, and I think a one time doctoral candidate would have mastered subject
verb agreement, yes or no? Please, Dr. Dunceberry refrain from your self-defeating view. Secular Humanism
holds there is no God. The late Dr. Kurtz stated that God is "unintelligible and incomprehensible."
Pantheism holds the belief in more than one god, and is polytheistic. It is for this reason that the Judeo-
Christian God remains masculine. Jesus addressed God as his heavenly Father, and taught his disciples to
pray to Our Father. Whether the article is an attack on Christianity or not, leave what you chose not to believe
alone. Freedom, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is reserved for all Americans. There will be
something we do not like. If you are tolerant, embrace diversity, and want open borders; then get used to
putting up with bits of culture and theology you do not like. The powers that be who put these offensive posts
tell Saudi Arabia your blasphemous rhetoric or any other Islamic country.
Peace be with you,
Minister Sean
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Thom
How many woke pansies are on this site? If someone is a male they are a male, if they are female they are a female. An image of Jesus and God have come down through history and now people want to make changes to it? I mean, have enough edit not been made to the Bible already?
There is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This has been said and written for centuries so why is anyone having to change it. Oh, that is right, cancel culture comes into play. Come on man! they don't even go to any church any way so why listen to them?
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White Owl
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White Owl
It is amazing how many people constantly attack Christianity out here for it's lack of tolerance & exclusiveness. They say that Christians need to learn how to tolerate others and let them be in their beliefs and let each to their own. Yet they come to this post and try to ramrod their pronoun beliefs down everyone else's religion saying they have to comply with their beliefs.
God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit bless you Thom and keep loving and serving the Lord.
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Daniel Gray
No they come here and then try and demand that we accept their beliefs after telling us that we should not force our beliefs on anyone. The word you are looking for is HYPOCRITES
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Lionheart
I look forward to your demonstrable evidence Thom proving the Father, son, and Holy Spirit, are real. Are you aware that no one has ever proved any god, even yours, exists. No amount of belief makes something a fact. All faiths of all religions on the face of the earth only have a faith to rely on for the obvious reason, there is no evidence.
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Rev Mark D
"Me be the They, the Them, and the Holy It."
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Jessika Mullins
God/dess exists far beyond the scope of our finite human minds. We can not understand something so infinite so we natur
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Lionheart
How do you know "God/dess" exists Jessica? Presumably you must have some evidence for you to state that it "exists far beyond the scope of finite human minds". Are you saying that as a presumption Jessica, or do you know something no-one else does? Please enlighten those of us still waiting for god....... any god, to show up to prove it is real. As an omnipotent "thing", one would assume it is capable of letting us know it is real without having to have others say it is. As a heads up, I won't accept images of faces on toast as evidence. It has to be able to do much better than that.
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Stephen Thickett
I will and we all should refer to the Holy Father in the masculine, that is how it is written in The Holy Bible. Did not God appear to man in his human form has Jesus (a man) and not in female form? This destruction of all logical thought is pathetic and we must resist change just to appear politically correct. We cannot keep on doing this and undermining the Christian Religion.
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Ronaldo
From this article; ' As Mary Daly said, 'if God is male, then the male is God.' All this shows is her ignorance of the English language. If she said 'a male is a god', that would have been grammatically accurate, as it would mean she is focusing on one male, that happened to be a god. 'Mankind', 'manmade', 'he', when referring to an unknown person of unknown gender, have been assumed to include men and women in the general description for many generations, until these last two. Now, suddenly, people make the assumption that all these words have only meant one gender throughout history, and no other. Any decent study of the English language reveals the error in that assumption, but too few people seem to care any longer about the flexibility of the language. I was born male, but I self-identify as a local god, and my preferred gender terms are 'lord' and 'highness'. Many people that have required my technical skills over the decades have often considered me a god, so I went with it.
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Pastor Schelp
OK...There are men and women for a specific reason. Some may be wired a little different (Maybe it's climate change) and that is fine. I believe there is a distinct difference between male and female. Males have different muscular abilities along with that grand ole hormone called Testosterone, which gives them the ability to handle the fight or flight fear much better than women. Women have the ability to organize, plan and manage the day to day activities with a deeper sense of "home body" then man and then there is that grand old hormone called estrogen. Together they may or may not pro-create the world. Men are fathers, women are mothers -- children need both. Why would anyone seek to "de-humanize" our individual and wonderful gifts. Come on, folks...where will this all end?
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Dr. Jerry Moyes
The divine is perceived by each of us in slightly different, and sometimes vastly different, ways, none of which are incorrect. The divine is beyond the comprehension of us simple mortals. For any person, group, congregation, church, religion, or belief system to set the shape, form, and gender of God goes well beyond presumptuous, into blasphemy. God, Goddess, or God's, whatever you prefer, may manefest in whatever way they choose.
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Cheryl Eilene Fluet
I want to know whatever happened to the separation of Church and state. It seems obvious to me that these people who so vigilantly want to change these "pronouns" are not Christian, or if they are maybe they are like Nancy Pelosi and Joseph Biden. They have gone over to the secular side. They should be anti abortion, yet they are not. We need to stand strong with our Lord and to keep His words. Do not let anyone push their agenda into our Church.
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Violina Petrova Tzvetkova
I think the pronoun about God should be It. We do not know very much about God, so that pronoun describes it well.
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Michael Barton
There are 2 1/2 genders. God probably doesn't care one way or the other how we use our words. But changing words to seem nicer to mentally ill folks isn't the solution. Eventually, the mentally ill will turn on the word They, and we'll have to go on and use another word.
The solution, and the only sane solution, is to ignore the crazies. Ask them to seek help, whether through God or a Doctor; they need help.
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Donald Michael Woodward
The more we learn about our past, the easier it is to see we know very little and must rely on theories, beliefs, and faith. My God is impossible to put in any words that could correctly describe HIM. So whatever gender I select would be incorrect. Religion may need a reason to assign gender but I do not. Every individual must learn to know their god. When that is done, there is no need for faith and belief.
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Nykadra Jones
We are all created in God's Image! So how do we know what he is? He could be a Lion for all we know. Let people choose how they refer to him/her. To me God is God! And as long as my family and I are being watched over by God and his angles I'm blessed and satisfied! Amen
Minister N. Jones
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Douglas R. Reynolds
God is the father! The gospels are divinely inspired and Christ calls God FATHER.
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Lionheart
Do you have any evidence to support your statement Douglas? Books are indeed written with inspiration, J.K. Rowling is testimony to that, but how does one determine what is “divinely” inspired, and what does that really mean?
People of other faiths also have books that they too believe were “divinely” inspired. How did you determine yours was more inspired than anyone else’s, especially as yours contains some very horrific, infanticidal, murderous, immoral stories by a mythical character?
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Allen Haas
I believe in the Triune God. It follows to me that since I accept that, the mystery of the Trinity cannot be expressed in human words. Nor can the mystery be confined to our observed genders. That being said the use of words which limit God to gender is misleading. Paul told us there will be neither male nor female in the Resurrection. It's a difficult if not impossible concept for us to grasp as we learn by our experienced physical lives. All will be revealed and I suspect we will laugh at our ignorance.
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Geoffrey C. Olive
If it is necessary to assign a pronoun for a supernatural being that may or may not exist, then IT is the only rational option!
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Geoffrey C. Olive
An abbreviated option covering all possibilities S/H/IT may be the best alternative!🤪
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Billy Lynn Hardin
Personally I believe this person should be Excommunicated and lose his Ministerial Certification. God,our father, and his word is inerrant period! God is Male period. God teaches us to be tolerant of others,to hate sin and to love the sinners. We are to pray for them and try to lead them to the alter of grace and accept his son Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. There is no place in the Bible that tell's us to promote this pro noun nonsense that the LGBTQ community does, as I see it, it is part of the homosexual agenda which targets the youth if today! It is Queer thought put into the words of the human man that is certainly corrupting the youth of today. Read Leviticus Chapter 18 and 19 and it tells us how Men and Women are to live. I never thought there would ever be a day when people care more about Homosexuality,glorify it, let alone promote it openly! This is just another form of molestation,a covert form that poisons the minds of children so by the time they reach the age of atonement they're truly lost deep into sin which makes Satan rejoice. We must stop this bastardization of the English language and any other languages where this poison has spread to. Gay has never ever meant Homosexual or Lesbian! AND GOD IS THE FATHER AND THE MAN OF ALL MEN!
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Geoffrey C. Olive
It’s no wonder christianity feels threatened when this bigoted point of view wants the world to remain in the 7th century.
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Billy Lynn Hardin
This is not bigoted in anyway. God is Male! The LGBT & Queer agenda is behind this and I will stand nose to nose against all blasphemous people and defend God the father. You cry baby supporter's are the bigots trying to change God to suit your agenda instead of following the agenda of GOD OUR FATHER!!!!!
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Daniel Lee Hamilton
I disagree, with all this woke democratic stuff , leave it how it is , religion isn't meant to be resigned to fit agendas or not offend someone. Weak people ......
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Eileen M. Wright
How about god, Elohim,lord gender was applied when god was transferred into English from Hebrew anyway
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John T. Watson
The Word says God made MAN is HIS image. The Word does not say THEY or THEM. These left wing individuals that want to re-write the Word are so far away from the truth of God and His Word that they are in danger of being tossed into the Lake of Fire at the day of judgement when God will say to them, Depart from me, I never knew you.
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Lionheart
Did you get that storyline of fire and judgement from your book John? Have you read any other books that you also believe is truth, even though there is no demonstrable evidence?
As a spoiler alert, if you happen to read the Harry Potter series of books, the story is fictional, even though it contains much better morals than the book you’ve been reading.
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John T. Watson
Harry Potter? Are you serious? You need to open your Bible and begin reading from verse one and continue through the rest of the creation story. God said let us make man in our image. He did not say let us make they or them in our image. Also Adam was the first man made. God later made woman (Eve) from Adams rib. If you do not believe that part of the Bible then you are trying to change or cancel the entire Word of God. That is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost ( the one unforgivable sin). Be very careful my friend on what you say and write. We will all one day give an account of our remarks and writings at the Great Throne Judgement. Repent and ask Jesus into your heart and then you will be saved.
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Lionheart
John, religious threats, all taken from a book of dubious authenticity, mean absolutely nothing. The god you seem to revere, of which there is no evidence of its reality, is a brutal, misogynistic, infanticidal, genocidal bully. Fortunately, there is no evidence it’s real, and only languishes in tales and folklore written millennia ago by many people who didn’t even know where the Sun went at night, let alone try and make up stories of where human beings came from.
Harry Potter, though just as equally fictional as your god character, did have far better morals than the god guy that you seem to worship as being real.
Please be careful of what you read in books that have no provenance of the reality of the stories they contain, because if you’re not careful you might end up believing in Unicorns, and snakes and other animals that speak, and even virgin births. I know these sound extremely far-fetched, but there are some people that do believe that.
As an ex-minister that preached from the pulpit, I have read the Bible using logic, reason, and critical thought and that’s precisely why I no longer believe in its contents. Thank you for your concern. 🤗
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John T. Watson
I will pray that God shows you what He showed me as I sat in a hospital feeling I was near death. Someday I may tell you about my recovery that occured because of people that believe in God praying for my recovery and the vision God showed me.
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Lionheart
I’m glad you got some comfort in your recovery John. Many will have been in a similar situation to yourself, especially children, and not recover at all. If it gives you comfort to believe a God cured you and not others in even worse situations I’m really pleased for you.
Please don’t pray for me, if you really think that works, try getting your god to cure children horrifically in pain dying of cancer. They aren’t “feeling near death” as you stated you were, they are actually in the state of death. They need divine help far more than I do, whatever “divine help” really means. 🤷🏼
If you do pray to your God for it to show me anything, I will let you know if it shows up. Just in case you are wondering, it’s a no-show so far, which to me is hardly surprising, but thank you for your concern. It’s possibly helping someone score a goal, hit a home run, pass a driving test, or something else far more important. 🤗
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Reverend Gary
Monsieur Lionheart of the round table! Oh noblest of the hearts of lions. You are indeed well educated and able to present a most compelling concept. Is this not the most fun?
We are all Gods of the same Universe . . . .
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Lionheart
Le très révérend Gary. Thank you for your very kind comments. I do the best I can to help educate. I am merely a servant of freedom of thought, mixed with logic, and reason.
Merci pour vos très gentils commentaires. Je fais de mon mieux pour aider à éduquer. Je ne suis qu'un serviteur de la liberté de pensée, mêlée de logique et de raison.
Cœur de Lion 🦁♥️
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Cheryl Eilene Fluet
When Jesus came to earth to save us from sin, He entered the world as a Baby Boy. He did not come to earth as a they. I am appalled that these people would try to enter into our religion and try to change it. Church and state has always been separate. It is time for us to keep our religion, and our Bible and traditions safe.
These people should not have the right to try and enter our Church and want to change pronouns. If that is there problem then they should not be teaching our faith to our children. Those people need to read the Bible. God is the Father, He, Jesus is the Son of God,He, the Holy Spirit , He.
I cannot understand why these people would try and change 2000 years of our religion or our heritage. As far as I am concerned, God and Jesus will ALWAYS be referred to as He.-
Kathryn Darcy Smith
Not all of us ULC ministers are Christians. ULC is ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT to those of us Spiritual leaders who don't fit into your man-made "boxes".
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Roger Scott Gilbert
The savior son, redeemer, victim perpetrator, you must suffer, patriarchal, off world god, Phys-op that has permeated the consciousness of the world and brought it to ruin. Instituted through a radical Jewish splinter group and born of Abrahamic religion. The perfect plan for world domination, fear and control. The monstrous, bloodthirsty, vengeful, and jealous god who is none other then the Demiurge and false from the beginning. Religion is a hoax and the most destructive meme on the planet. The fact that you use the term God at all, shows how deep the brainwashing runs.God itself denotes a male. I suggest you begin de-programming by reading "not in His Image" by John Lamb Lash!
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Daniel Lee Hamilton
We should keep it how it is , religion isn't ment to be resigned to fit agendas and or feelings, people need to accept what is and what has been in some situations harsh truth or fact,. We cannot keep changing everything to fit a agenda, or protect feelings, and we cannot rewrite history . People need to stop the whole woke pronouns stuff , so weak minded.
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Frederick John Chiarello
Your message is given under the assumtion that our religion or our faith goes through an evolution, and that we must change with the times. I will disagree to this notion because, although we go through cultural and social changes, God does not. If we are to believe that All scripture is God breathed, then we must except it's writings and it's teaching. If God detailed to direct Moses to write Genesis and the Creation of Man( which is referring to Mankind), then I believe that is the structure God intended. We have a tendancy to try to change God and His Word to fit our needs, desires and wants. Mostly to acomodate our choice of lifestyle. Scripture is what it is, GOD'S HOLY WORD AND LAW. The sooner we accept that truth and start living by it, and be obedient to His will, the better off we will be. He is sovereign, we are not. Amen.
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Richard William Mc Peake
It is simply more nonsense - people should get over their insecurities. Previous posts are correct Gods image of humanity was FIRST a man. Also, if you believe Jesus Christ was God, He too was male. Silly wokes need to go to Common Sense Education Classes. Common sense allows you to understand the male pronounce reference is more simply applied and the Belief that Christ was God hence a male pronoun. People show place thoughts and prayers where needed.
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Anthony Jason Roberts
Very well said!!!
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Zaklina Blazevski
Bravo 👏🏻 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Perfectly said!!!!
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Lisa A Gilmore
There is only 1 God! Hear o isreal, thr Lord our God is one and he changes not!
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Lionheart
I’m curious as to which mythical God you are referring to? Mankind seems to have created so many, all professing that their belief is the true one. No amount of belief makes anything fact, but I’m sure you know this….right?
I’m a big believer that man created god in his image: intolerant, jealous, sexist, homophobic, and violent.
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Doctor Loyal
If your personal belief is to rub bacon fat in your navel while chanting the alphabet backwards, and referring to Them/They, I hope it makes you feel fulfilled. Please respect all beliefs and refrain from indicating that you, yourself, has the only direct line to the :Holy of Holies.
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Lionheart
I do not respect anyones beliefs if it includes worshipping a belief of a deity that is nothing but an infanticidal, genocidal bully. I do not profess to have a direct line to anything called Holy of Holies. In fact I don’t even have a concept of what that is. You might in fact be confusing your right, or other peoples rights, to believe in stupid s*** with me not having the right to make fun of it.
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Anthony Jason Roberts
Really? The Bible is already written. We cannot change God’s word. I’m all about equal rights but not changing His word!!!
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Karen M Butler
The Word was changed many times over by the church. The original creation story comes from Sumerian texts. Everyone needs to do their homework instead of spouting off what they've been conditioned to believe from pastors who imposed their own opinions into the teachings for profit and greed. When the Return happens, I do believe the Creator is going to be rather angry with what people have done with The Word...The original Word.
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Doctor Loyal
He/Him vs They/Them is pretty invalid. They/Them implies a pantheon or host of Gods rather than the historic "Male Father Figure" that has always been associated with the concept of an Historical God, both in the Bible, The Torah, and the Quran. There are other beliefs that indicate a "Female/Mother Figure" as the supreme being, but here again it is a singular being that is being addressed, not a mob, group, or host.
Anyone being of a mind to address a Holy Supreme Being as They/Them is being obstinate, woke, and Counter-Culture, and I would suggest that person should refrain trying to change everyone else to meet that person's selfish standards. Live and Let Live !! If your personal belief is to rub bacon fat in your navel while chanting the alphabet backwards, and referring to Them/They, I hope it makes you feel fulfilled. Please respect all beliefs and refrain from indicating that you, yourself, has the only direct line to the :Holy of Holies.
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A Michael Piper
The Creator - Do you need a pronoun? I avoid the God word in that it has been corrupted to some sort of pre-defined reality, subjective and relative. The question is fundamental physics - Did mind come from matter - matter come from "Mind". <--The Creator Defining what The Creator is, is irrelevant to our reality, it seems to me. It is most likely an understanding currently beyond our comprehension. No one of US can comprehend all of Creation (the Universe of Universes). To even imagine we can comprehend or define that requires a level of hubris that has been our species ball and chain.
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Jackie D. Reeder
Eloheem is a plural noun but all three are masculine, God the Father, Jesus the son, and the Holy Spirit. Mary could not have conceived with a female. This subject is ridiculous. God is the same yesterday, today and forever. The question is, why would women be offended by using the proper titles of God?
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Floyd Eugene Nicks
This is not a good thing for any religion or clergy to be pushing, it is strongly entering the pollitical ring in a very wrong way. I use the KJV exclusively, and have read several other bibles, even from many other religions and have yet to read one thaat refers to him as anything other than a male, we may change him aand his laws here on earth but we will definitely answer for it on judgement day, if you believe in that. I think that is one of the biggest problems we have today in our xhurches and religions, we have gotten away from preaching from God's word, the Bible, because we may offend some one. How sad is that! Wake up clergy, do what God tells you to do, not what politicians tell you to do, it is your eternity you are jeoperdizing here! Just my personal thhoughts.
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John T. Watson
You either have faith in God or you do not. Jesus said " He who is not for me is against me". Many people on here question the authenticity of God's word, the old and new testaments. I challenge you to disprove their authenticity. Show me the evidence that proves the Bible wrong. I hope and pray that all who do not believe in the one true God that consists of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost will have their eyes and hearts open to the truth. To those that were preaching the word and for whatever reason turned away from God and his word I pray that God will forgive you and help you with whatever problems you have in your life.
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Lionheart
I can no more disprove whatever is being postulated in the writing of a book you revere, as you can disprove what is written the the Quran, or Bhagavad Gita, or the Veda’s, or any other books people on the earth revere. No amount of belief makes anything a fact John. Don’t forget that many of those involved in writing those chapters and books didn’t know where the sun went at night, but they relied, and had faith, on it showing up the next day. It’s hardly surprising that the first God was seen as being the Sun. More Gods continued to be created by mankind as more and more mysteries became unanswered. They are commonly called “The gods of the gaps”, because saying a God was involved in things mankind didn’t understand seemed to fulfill man’s lack of understanding, until we gained more knowledge, hence the Sun God didn’t last long, only to be replaced with another God.
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Karen M Butler
We made man in "our" image...the original Sumerian texts have many gods not just one. There never was "one". Calling "God" they/them would be the right thing to do but do it for the right reason. It would have nothing to do with being gay, lesbian, trans or anything other than the fact that it should've been 'they/them' all along.
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Brian Konrad Elliott Balke
The Divine has both masculine and feminine presentations. The God of Abraham is masculine. The Goddess of Shamballa Buddhism is feminine. Both traditions recognize the necessity of partnership between the presentations. Read Rev 5 (the 24 Elders are masculine and feminine sets of 12; the "144,000" are their combinations), Rev12 and Rev 22; or Marion Zimmer-Brown's great "Dakini's Warm Breath."
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Robert Duff
God should be called He/Him only by Unitarians andUnitarian Universalists. The Trinitarians should use They/Them.
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Reverend Gary
Oh, for criminy sake! I declare as the self appointed Supreme Oberführer Deity Leader of All Eternity:
You are ALL WRONG!!
The proper pronoun is "I"
There, that settles it. Next . . . .
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
This is totally blasphemous. To refer to anyone of the Trinity as they or them you would be recognizing more then one god. They/ them is plural, not singular. Jews and Christians believe in one God. As Christians we know the Holy Spirit is and can be feminine and masculine. To refer to either person you are specifically referring to one person. To refer to more then one you clarify to whom you're referring to. All three you say Trinity. One never acts without f other two. But to say they or them is not good theology, or good semantics. We become believers in three gods instead of one in three persons. What sloppy theology. Drop the gender crap. It has no place in Christian theology.
The world may change with time. Our Holy Father never does not. We read in the scriptures that God made man in his own image then seeing man needed a mate God created woman from man for man. It is clearly written that God our Holy Father is male.
This all inclusive culture is destroying the world. When are people going to learn that not everything has to be fitted for thier wants. Men are Men we can not be Women i myself would never want to give live birth it is not how men are made. Women are made to be Woman. Before a storm of arguments opens up yes some men may not be "Manly" as strength in body they may not have been blessed with children. They are still men. Same as for women one might not look like a fairy tell princes but she has the feminine aspects.
I would hope that when you're using that term that people are "made" that it's a metaphor. If not, that's Bronze Age (pre-scientific) thinking. You are free to retain and practice your faith according to the dictates of your conscience, but to argue as fact that which is not objectively provable is surrendering to mindless dogma.
This "all-inclusive culture" you refer to reflects a spurt of humanity's moral growth - a step in cultural maturation. It is inevitable that we progress. We must grow into better human beings in order to survive. That means we must abandon ideas tied to mores founded on past ignorance.
We cannot progress facing backwards, looking into the past for succor.
Choosing to now openly accept those who have for millennia past lived hidden in shadows will not destroy the world. These people are fellow human beings who have always existed right beside us, but who felt compelled to hide who they truly were, under very real fears of persecution and death.
Let us cease being ignorant. Let us stop being selfish children, stomping our feet at having to leave our comfort zone, and embrace this change: as we have previously in the emancipation and liberation of black slaves and equality for women. Both of those were once considered unthinkable and believed that if permitted, would destroy the economic foundation and moral fabric of society.
Yet they did not.
Oh so much. First IF there were such a thing as a God why would it be a gender. There is only one, right. It may be a god. If you must assign a gender then it infers that you believe in religion and some version of the bible. If so then men were created in Gods image. So the gender would be male. Women were added on. So no gender, not a he, she, they, them or any new made up stuff. There are male and females but I don’t believe it says anywhere that women were created in Gods image. Neither does it say they or them. If you want to or believe that woman or pro nouns should be applied then you clearly state you don’t believe in the Bible. There is enough to be critical of in the Bible to not believe. Magical thinking, Joseph ( middle aged) takes off with a young teen girl and she comes back pregnant. Miracle, Magic or pedaphilia. Well Joe was a dog. Immaculate conception? Stop. Get real. Hey Superman is now a bisexual!
If that comic book about a mythical creature can change so to can the Bible.
If they have "hidden in the shadows" as you claim, then there must be a reason that they didnt come foreword. I love how you try and justify how to ignore a religions teachings. And I also completely enjoy how desperate you are as some of the people who think like you have accused famous people in history of being something they clearly are not. And yet that does not seem to bother you in the slightest.
Sorry but your attempt to drive a wedge is not going to work and its plain that you are being laughed at instead of agreed with
Lol idiot, every religion ignores every other religion's teachings. What the hell are you even talking about half the time? Do you know what you're talking about old man?
In Roman times the prayer would include: By which ever name you wish to be addressed". Let the Deity , from whichever religion you are, sort it out!
I have many friends and acquaintances who are practitioners of a revived Religio Romana. Some of the say that a Belief in Dies Immortales is not necessary, but that orthopraxy is more important than orthodoxy.
God transcends gender, as God is the creator of Gender.
Your evidence that a deity exists, and was involved in creation, and gender, is where?
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Lest us not forget the Trinity as well. If Jesus is God then surely God is a male. I sure wish the 99% (we) would all stop bowing to the less than 1% of the population who is trying to force the rest of us to their thinking/ways. Since when did the majority stop ruling/winning? I hold no ill will toward anyone but I do not want to be forced to "accept" the thinking and/or teachings of those whom make up less than 1% of our population here in the U.S. nor that of someone who is intentionally misquoting the Bible. They also need to stop forcing our children and young adults to listen to and accept their "teachings" (I use that word lightly). If this person above truly read and understood the Bible as it was written I don't think she would have written what she wrote. JS