In an 8-1 decision, Texas’ highest court has ruled in favor of an official who was in front of the court defending her steadfast refusal to perform same-sex marriages.
Though officiating marriages is part of her official duties as Justice of the Peace, Dianne Hensley argued that performing such ceremonies violated her Christian belief that marriage is only between man and woman.
When the State Commission on Judicial Conduct warned her against taking this position, Hensley decided to take them to court.
The case joins a growing number of recent rulings that have favored religious freedom over the rights of the LGBTQ+ community – leaving many civil rights advocates feeling apprehensive about the future.
Justice or Not?
The Texas Supreme Court ruled that Hensley, representing the Waco area in McLennan County, can move ahead with the lawsuit after the state office warned that she could face consequences for discriminating against same-sex couples.
Originally elected in 2014, Hensley stopped performing weddings altogether in 2015 after the landmark Supreme Court decision Obergefell v. Hodges legalized gay marriage across the country.
She eventually started performing weddings again, but only for heterosexual couples. That decision prompted remarks from the State Commission on Judicial Conduct, who warned her that her refusal to perform same-sex marriages – especially while still performing straight marriages – “[cast] doubt on her capacity to act impartially to persons appearing before her as a judge due to the person’s sexual orientation.”
Hensley sued, arguing the warning violated her First Amendment right to freedom of religion. Though lower courts agreed with the initial ruling, arguing that whether she likes it or not, performing same-sex marriages is part of her job duties, the Texas Supreme Court ultimately sided with Hensley.
Their reasoning? Couples could always just go to another justice of the peace.
"Imagine a couple in that situation trying to coerce the courteous and helpful Christian judge to violate her convictions for their convenience, when other local officiants are happy to accommodate," wrote Justice Jimmy Blacklock. "What purpose could that possibly serve—other than to prove that adherents to the old orthodoxy will be made to bend the knee to the new one?"
Advocates of same-sex marriage, however, argued that especially in small, rural communities – where clergy often refuse to solemnize same-sex marriages – getting a judge or justice of the peace to perform a wedding is sometimes the only legal option for LGBTQ+ couples to tie the knot.
And what if every public official they talk to is of a similar mind to Dianne Hensley?
The Return of Kim Davis
The ruling has set off alarm bells for LGBTQ+ rights advocates. In their minds, it marks yet another sign that same-sex marriage protections are under threat. Could they be right?
Attorneys for embattled former Rowan County, Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis announced that they plan to appeal to the Supreme Court after a judge ruled in January that Davis has to pay some $260,000 in attorney fees to the original couple whose marriage license she denied.
Davis famously refused to issue marriage licenses to gay couples after the legalization of same-sex marriage – a decision that led to her arrest, ouster from public office, and national notoriety.
Now, Davis’ lawyers hope this version of the Supreme Court – which has shown more sympathy for conservative religious beliefs than past ones – may rule in her favor.
Will Same-Sex Marriage Be Overturned?
There’s growing anxiety amongst the LGBTQ+ community that, in the wake of Roe v. Wade’s reversal, same-sex marriage itself could be next on the chopping block.
Adding to those concerns are comments made by the Justices themselves.
In the ruling to overturn Roe, Justice Clarence Thomas penned a concurring opinion that appeared to challenge the constitutionality of the Obergefell ruling. “In future cases, we should reconsider all of this Court’s substantive due process precedents, including Griswold, Lawrence, and Obergefell,” Thomas wrote.
Then, in recent leaked audio, Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito can be heard agreeing that the United States should return to “a place of godliness."
Taken all together, these developments pose some pressing questions:
Could marriage equality face a real legal challenge in the coming years, or are those fears overblown?
When it comes to LGBTQ+ rights, particularly at the altar, are we moving backwards?
157 comments
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Minister for the Kingdom
Minister Ralph Krebbs, Marriage: There is always a point to Christ's teaching. Always. To be clear we read Ephesians 5:22. And find that wives are instructed to submit to their own husbands, like unto the Lord. It is very clear that wives have been Commanded. To not only submit to their husbands but, to do so as Jesus has instructed. In doing so, they follow Jesus, the [church]. like wise the husband is to love his wife only, as( between a man and a wife ) as this is right. But read what Jesus has instructed. For her, the wife then the husband. Lets look to the order of things that the Lord has laid out. Jesus has not said for us who are married to walk to our own! Only to what Christ has spoken and commanded. As both who are married, walk in Jesus. This fulfills the example of the church. It is what our marriage represents. To walk as God's law is, "to be one flesh. More to come. I love you all!
Minister for the Kingdom
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Being Gay is GENETIC, not "A choice."
The diversity of Gene expression including sexual orientation.
https://www.diversityresources.com/exploring-the-connection-between-genetics-and-sexual-orientation/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR3sGFGHGo-L0O3zs-STJStzBOpx3YZWSd5KYhFsYjIa9WvAcrwQjkaPVWI_aem_AQjUwBCy3g-aYQHGoQnNjUyfI4eIFD9HOmGR4wkl9-fd7ZhkBCcDWIVit38mHv7QYxd9YbvU8PAZ2C3gK7lFExcB
Gender variants are extremely common and seen most often in individuals who are bisexual or intersex aka Trans.
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adj6958
There are multiple human genders beyond just born male or born female, but in fact genetics proves that gender dimorphism is more common than people may think. Though it is not always fully expressed, that is to say, the indivudals hormonal reactions via same sex or opposite sex attractions.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10483070/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1Qk_0R2WNqc90IpZwk74Z5_S0C3Ac9EoQBBgBdaugpabpsF62BdprZYYQ_aem_AQh-RkFUFBlspSHCDLYSVLpaFVmAzxcOKGcrf5IqT2IAJfNmqrCANq1vnNMGlRrpNzSsqIsMeT0x-V-DuvE1Taic
How genetics plays a vital role in gender dimorphism in the human, that is to say, for an individual to be Intersex or, in layman's terms, "Trans".
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s13293-023-00515-w
Young teens who are LGBTQ+, and kids who are suspected of being LGBTQ+, are more apt to be targeted for physical violence and sexual abuse by their own families. Especially families who live within, or involved in, religious communities.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2950193824000019
https://youthlaw.org/sites/default/files/attachments/2023-06/NCYL_Issue%20Briefs_LGBTQIA2S%2B%20Youth%20CSE_v6_0.pdf
This is the reason that the LGBTQ + Community tends to have a higher rate of suicide. Not because of their orientation, but because of the cruelty and abuse they suffer from others, including their own families.
https://www.newportacademy.com/resources/mental-health/lgbt-suicide-rates/
It's not just the youth who are LGBTQ+ who are suffering. Elderly individuals who are LGBTQ+ are more apt to suffer severe abuse at the hands of their families, and discrimination and abuse in many care facilities.
https://www.nursinghomeabusecenter.com/resources/lgbt/
For those claiming there are only TWO genders and that being LGBTQIA+ is "unnatural", "evil", that kids are being "forced to be it", etc. You are wrong.
Genetically speaking, there are over 50 human gender variants, though outwardly, a person's gender can be born to show one of four physical appearances.
1) Born appearing to be male.
2) Born appearing to be female.
3) Born Intersex, i.e. showing both gender traits.
4) Born Intersex, showing no gender traits.
Now, that being said, it's not unusual for the PARENTS to choose their what gender their child APPEARS to be if they are born Intersex. However, what the parents choose may NOT be what the genetic gender of the child actually is. Nor does their outward appearance always show their true gender as well.
Allow me to explain.
You see, genetically speaking, as I stated earlier, there are multiple human genders, and there are many, many MORE gender variants. You can appear to be female by birth, and yet, genetically, be male. Internally, at the genetic level, your DNA shows that you are actually "wired" to be male, as it were.
You can appear to be male, by birth, and yet, genetically, be female. Internally, at the genetic level, your DNA shows you are actually "wired" to be female.
So, despite what some individuals may espouse and claim, there are FAR more than two human genders. Hell, even by birth, you can physically be one of four outward appearances. And it is, I assure you, all completely natural. There is no "god" factor with this, or a "devil" factor, or anything supernatural involved. For those who believe in such a thing.
It all comes down to how your DNA came together before you were ever born. So for those saying individuals who are LGBTQ+ are "unnatural", and those disparaging Trans individuals as "refusing their birth-right", you're wrong. It's completely natural. And, in fact, an individual transitioning to the other gender may, in fact, be simply gaining the physical appearance they were meant to have all along.
https://genetic.org/variations/
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Daniel Gray
and not ONE of these claimed sources are or have been peer reviewed, meaning that not ONE of them can be claimed to be factual unless they have been proved by an independent source. Nice try but major fail
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Ari Joseph Bertine
Peer reviewed:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6677266/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8558329/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8955456/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3786754/
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Mrknowitall
That is completely irrational...There is no ' Homosexual ' gene. Quit trying to blame God for same sex attraction. Becoming Homosexual happens during your adolescence years. So why is the Homosexuals crowd larger than ever ? Because of false demonic information pushed by the deviant Homosexual crowd that somehow it's normal and should be celebrated. On the contrary, it's irrational and abnormal behavior and should be treated as such...The best known cure is Christian counseling as early as possible.
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Michael Hunt
Maybe check out Ari's post right above yours. It's got peer reviewed scientific studies that show that homosexuality is biologically programed at birth. The reason the homosexual crowd is "larger than ever" is because they don't have to hide their sexuality for fear of being ostracized by society or physically attacked for it.
"Christian counseling" won't change anyone's sexuality. It will only teach homosexuals to hate themselves. Conversion "therapy" has been thoroughly debunked and is directly linked to higher rates of suicide. Classic Christian "love".
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Mrknowitall
Genetically speaking, there are over 50 human gender variants ?
Holy Christmas there are only 2, Male & Female, to believe anything else is scientifically absurd.
The Homosexual community has poisoned so many minds it's absolutely shameful !
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Hate to tell ya this, but it's not "poisoning any minds". That would be the bigots in multiple churches that are poisoning minds, by deliberately trying to teach people to HATE instead of being respectful and accepting of others.
And yes, genetically speaking there are over 50 variants. You say "there is only male and female", but the fact is, both genetically and via neurological "wiring", that is to say the way the synapses form within the brain, there are multiple.
Now, outwardly, you can LOOK to be one one of four genetic appearances. As I earlier stated. You can be born APPEARING to be female, but internally have male traits, in fact this is not uncommon in female athletes.
You can be born APPEARING to be male, but internally have female traits.
You can be born having the appearance of BOTH gender traits showing outwardly, though this is extremely rare.
And you can be born with no outward gender traits showing, this is even MORE rare.
As a zygote, ALL fetuses start out female. If there is enough influence in the y-shaped chromosome, then the zygote will start to develop into a male appearing fetus. Now, that being stated, especially ones with XxY, or XyX chromosomes, for example, the influence of the y chromosome may be muted. Which means the resultant fetus will develop and, when born, will be outwardly female in appearance, but have male gender traits. Some of these may be internal testes, for example. Again, female athletes have been sometimes found to have this.
The condition, PCOS, is commonly caused by the female body having far too much testosterone production. This is a trait that normally would be thought to be a male trait, but is found in women.
Now, in the result of XxY, it's likely the Y is just strong enough to allow the fetus to develop into an individual that appears to be male. However, they may have internal female traits such as an underdeveloped uterus, or even proto-ovaries. Meaning the male has female traits even if, outwardly, you cannot see them. The individual in question may never identify as female, and may never even know they have these traits. Or, subsequently, they may transition.
Same with the female with the male traits. The individual may never realize they have these traits, since again they cannot outwardly be seen, or they may end up transitioning.
It is 100% scientific, 100% proven, and 100% medical fact.
But that is also 100% between the individual and their doctor, no one else.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
I'd need to know more about the situation to know whether it's alarming or not.
This is a case of an employer deciding to allow their employee to skip out on job duties that they don't like. If this employer can tolerate that behavior, it's their prerogative to allow it. However, as part of the government, it is also this employer's responsibility to make sure that there is an employee available to perform the job duties that the other is skipping out on. So if there is, in fact, another Justice available at that same location to perform marriages for everyone, it's not alarming. If there isn't, then someone needs to legally prompt the state to make sure to provide one at a convenient (not costing more to travel to) location. If they don't, then they should be legally corrected so that they cover this issue. If they want to cover the cost of having more than one Justice in place because one of them has religious proscriptions, again, that's their prerogative, but they must provide the service with reasonable accommodation.
I work at a deli counter where I handle various meat and cheese products. If I belonged to religion where I was forbidden to touch a particular meat, it would be up to my employer to decide whether to tolerate my refusal to touch that meat. Now, laws against religious discrimination would probably protect me from being fired for refusing to do approximately a fifth of my meat-cutting duties, but it would be inconvenient for my employer and for other employees working for me, who would have to stop whatever they were doing and rush to the counter to cover for me whenever there was a customer wanting X meat. They would have to, though, because someone has to serve the clientele. This is not a case where some customers simply wouldn't get served just because I had an issue that required others to do my job for me. It would require arrangement on the part of my employer to work around it.
We will see if this is an alarming situation when we see how Texas responds to making sure that there are sufficient Justices available to perform marriages as needed, without costing tax-payers extra money in travel fees to get to them. If they dig in their heels, we'll know it's discrimination. If they suck it up and install more Justices we'll know they are attempting to adhere to accommodating religious freedom.
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Joe R Day
Yes, the right to marry a human of the same sex is now in question... Sad but true.
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Rev. Mojo
Yes, it IS a problem, I believe in traditional marriage. However, if 2 people want to marry, they should be allowed to. I welcome any and all faiths and types of marriage. Rev. Leilani Abbey Mojarro
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Minister of Bacon
If they know that there marriage violated the Christian rights. Why are they complaining about Christians churches,there are other churches and religions they can get married under, why does it have to be christian.
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Stephen B. Knutti
No one has the right to require someone else to violate their religious beliefs just to push your agenda forward. If you don't agree with what another believes, then GO ELSEWHERE to get married. There are a miriad of folks who WILL perform your ceremony and it won't be an issue. Nobody cares if you are offended. Nothing happens. You feeling offended is YOUR problem, not any one else's. Why do we not hear about a straight couple sueing an LGBTQ+ minister if they refuse to perform their ceremony? They just go elsewhere and don't raise a stink. Maybe that is what everyone should do?? Take you and your offended self down the street.
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Warren Calvin Wall
It's NOT a difficult decision. Her actions are a direct violation of the 1st Amendment. She cannot enforce her religious beliefs when performing her duties as a government official. Period. She is de facto creating a government mandated religion by enforcing her religious beliefs upon the public. Enforce the Constitution and there is no problem. When operating under the direct authority of the Constitution, your personal beliefs becomes irrelevant.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
A civil union, as provided by the state, should be available for any two consenting adults.
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Donna K Fransen
I would like to see what the rules are for being a justice of the peace in Texas before I decide. I will say, in my personal opinion, if this person cannot fulfill her/his duties as a justice because they want to discriminate due to religion, then said person needs to step aside and let someone else do the job. Next thing you know, the justice will say I don't want to marry a black to a white, or some other such nonsense. Companies are starting to have second thoughts about locating in Texas due to their recent laws against both women and the LGBQT community. Send this couple to New Orleans, I'll be more than happy to do their marriage ceremony.
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Farajallah Michael Yazbek
Before you go off on my beliefs, know that there are certain responsibilities in performing wedding rites. I believe that the two women in this article are protected in their beliefs and will win. Why? Well, it seems that there is this pesky little document, known as the Constitution Of The United States, which has 27 added Amendments, that rules this case in favor of the Justice Of The Peace that refuses to act against her Christian faith. It's the First Amendment. It states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the FREE exercise thereof;..." The key words in this all-important document is the word FREE EXERCISE THEREOF. In exercising her Christian beliefs in the way she knows, in public, she is protecting the very document that grants the authority of the US Courts systems as we know them today. Both JP Hensley and Kim Davis are doing is the very freedom granted in the First Amendment, and anyone that doesn't like it can go and pound sand. The one thing the US Constitution doesn't allow is for ANY PERSON, GOVERNMENT OR AGENCY THEREOF, to stop her from her religious practices, but much the opposite. In true Christianity we are taught to love each other, but to follow the Gospels and teachings of Jesus. The same is true for Islam, Hinduism, Buddism, Judaism and even wiccan and pagan rituals and rites. As a true and faithful Christian I will not perform same-sex marriages, either, because they violate the very tenets taught in the Acts of the Apostles, as well as the laws set forth in the Torah and Pentateuchan books of the Old Testament. There are plenty of others who WILL perform these weddings, but I'm not one of them. To do so would be a violation of my Chrismation into Orthodox Christianity, as I had to rebuke Satan and literally spit on him as a part of the tonsure into the Orthodox Church. I do not use my ordinance in the Universal Life Church as part of the Orthodox celebrations of the Liturgies that I attend. I use it in my outside evangelical practices, and yes, the Metropolitan (Bishop to non-Orthodox) is aware of this. I actually asked for, and received permission to accept this ministry before applying to be ordained. There is no validity if there is no truth and openness about what we're doing. They accept me as a lay-member of the parish, and I use my status as a member of the clergy to do what I do outside of the church with the blessings of the higher authorities of the church, since we're all on the same team as ministers of the truth.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
The problem with viewing the First Amendment as carte blanche to take one's religious practices into any situation regardless of its requirements is that there are legal obligations that do, at times, clash with said religious freedoms. If I were a practitioner of a religion that required animal sacrifice, I could not just go into a public park and slaughter my goat there in an area not zoned for animal processing. There are laws against that because it could affect other people's health, safety, and sensibilities. I would be free to practice my animal sacrifice at a licensed processing plant or on my own property after taking the proper legal steps to make it an appropriate place to do so.
If religious obligations render someone unsuitable for a job because they are unable to perform their duties, they are not the right person for that job, and it's not discriminatory to note that. A blood donation center is not the proper place for a Jehovah's Witness to work, for instance. A pulled-pork restaurant is not a great place for a Muslim to work. These things just make it hard for the employee to work, and it makes it hard for the employer having an employee that can't perform their job duties. It's not religious discrimination to discuss this with a prospective employee and talk about the job just not being a good fit. And if someone converts to a religion that adds religions prohibitions against some of their job duties, it's time to revisit the issue with the employer because the job is no longer a good fit. If the employer is willing to make accommodations to make sure the job still gets done and keep that employee then that's all well and good, but there is some moral obligation on the employee to decide whether they are still a good fit for a job where they can't perform some of their duties.
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Daniel Gray
Oh really and WHO are you to judge what is right or wrong? The law and the Constitution and a plethora of SCOTUS decisions all say they are protected and there isnt anything you can do but call names and complain
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Lorie E DeFiores
I'm sorry that I looked at the comments.....
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Rev. Deborah L. Halstead
I'm sorry, I disagree with the ruling. As an elected official Ms. Hensley needs to set aside her personal beliefs due to separation of church and state and simply abide by the law. I applaud Kentucky's decision regarding Ms. Davis, including her removal from office. Their personal feelings have no place in the execution of their duties!
On the flip side, were they not government officials I would support their right to choose their clientele according to their beliefs.
From the couple's perspective; unless they were deliberately provoking a judicial review (and I hope they take it further if that was the case and have the ruling overturned) I would choose someone for a joyous, rather than contentious, ceremony.
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Farajallah Michael Yazbek
No, she needs to practice her Christianity in full. No religious leader, or government official has the right to reject the beliefs and practices of any member of the church, regardless of what the government officials say. There's this little document that has proven itself to be a thorn in the side of many a government official that seems to not understand its purpose, which is to be the governing document in this case, as well as all others. It's the very document that authorizes their existence in the first place, known as the Constitution of the United States of America. The pesky portion of this document is the First Amendment, which states that Congress (meaning any portion of the government authorized and controlled by the legislature) shall make no law establishing religion, or PROHIBITIING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF; With this prohibition in place, both Hensley and Davis are protected in their personal freedom, which men and women have died for 250 years to protect and uphold, to exercise Christianity in its fullest, which means not selectively abandoning our religious beliefs in order to keep the government and other non-believers happy. So please study more before you spew such nonsense from emotions. You should open no only the current modern translations of the Bible, but get an Orthodox Study Bible, which predates the Roman Catholic and Septaugent (King James and later) abridged Bibles, and find ALL the ancient texts that govern the very church we are members of. I'm not being harsh on you at all. I'm simply saying you need more study and prayer for enlightenment. By only practicing selective parts of Jesus' teachings and God's commandments we're not totally clean in our baptisms because we're enabling sin both by our own selves and others. Jesus said in Matthew, "Whose sins you forgive, so you are forgiven. Whose sins you retain (condone), so are your sins retained (unforgiven)." By enabling, or abetting others to sin, we're just as guilty and forfeit our own right to forgiveness and cleansing of our souls, making us unworthy of Communion in Christ and ineligible to participate in the Holy Eucharist...
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Michael Hunt
How does issuing a marriage license prohibit her from exercising her religion? Oh that's right, it doesn't. You just want to impose your insane beliefs upon others.
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Stephanie Peckham
I try to preach using the entire bible, which includes the forgidden / forgotten books. I have found a much clearer understanding of the Bible having ALL the information. The church in the middleage was losing control as more and more people became EDUCATED and could see the differences in what was being preached in the church and what was written in the books.
You see many references for example the Books of Kings and The Cave of Treasures. When I read the books of Adam and Eve, the light went on for me. Some mystical vauge references were explained. The Gospel of Mary, provided insight to the missing years of Jesus, his growing up HUMAN and the things he did in order to understanding his gifts.
If you are supporting the true faith, it is all about forgiveness and leading people to the truth. Judgement is for God, not us. Love thy Neighbor regardless. God is a PERFECT God, that is why we can NEVER mets his expectations without a pure and complete source of forgiveness. If you recall, no one with a blemish could approach the alter of God. This included men who were injuried on the battlefield in defensive or offensive matters of God. They were no longer the PERFECT image of himself, they were blemished.
It is easy to throw around scriptures, toot your own horn in the "Holyer than Thou" race. It clearly states in the Bible, you can take slaves from other tribes, just not your own. So why dont these people challenge the courts on Slavery? Or an Eye for a Eye? If you are going to claim religious exemption, why not all the legal restrictions placed on your faith.
Seems to me people have clearly confused their personal beliefs and bigotries with the Teachings of the Gospels.
Glory to God, Teachings through the Son Jesus, Understanding through the Holy Spirit.
Stephanie, Sinner waiting for judgement.
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Mrknowitall
God sanctifies marriage between a man and woman only…homosexuality is from satan, good riddance
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Please show me the chapter and verse in the bible that says this.
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Andrew E Allord
I agree by position and responsibility she would be required as the function of her job to issue a marriage license. The issue before the court was does she have to perform the ceremony and the court said they cannot make her perform the marriage ceremony.
How is refusal to marry someone infringing on their rights? Nothing said they cannot be married, this person said they will not marry them. How is this different than other religions forcing conversion before performing marriage ceremonies, or in cases the clergy decides the couple are not a good fit and should not be married?
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Michael Hunt
What if everyone in your community refuses to perform your marriage? What if you have to travel 100s of miles and/or pay some one $1000s to officiate your wedding because of the distance? If a representative of the government refuses to marry you because of their religious belief, then they are using the government to impose their religion upon their constituents.
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Reginald Jackson
God arbors the gay community. Same sex marriage should be banned in all US states as per Gods word.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
In your church. That doesn't include the secular government or other religions that don't hate other people.
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Russel A. Kester
Reginald, an understanding of holy Scripture as reflected in you comments is shallow and ignorant. God loves everyone. How could anyone forget that? However, anyone who speaks as you did is guilty of hatred. And that is a sin.
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Michael Hunt
God grows trees for the Gays? Sounds like he loves the Gays after all!
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Rev Ned
As Rooster Cogburn said, “Texicans!@*#!!!”
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
The United States is a SECULAR nation,not a Christian Nation, not a Catholic Nation, not a religious nation of any kind. It's a SECULAR nation.
Unfortunately, the religious zealots are absolutely determined to turn the united states into a strict theocratic dictatorship like what exists in Afghanistan. And they want it to be just as cruel and brutal as well.
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Russel A. Kester
The United States should be a culturally Christian nation in order to preserve our culture and nation. Your concerns, Bridget, are out of proportion and are not reality. You might be concerned as Islam grows in America, witness the changes taking place in Hamtramck, but not Christianity.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
ROFL No, Russel, our nation should never be, and will never be, "Christian". Not culturally, or literally. My concerns are most certainly based in reality and are not "Blown out of proportion." And yeah, I'm talking about Christianity here. As the old phrase "There's no "love" like Christian "hate". It simply means that they claim that their religion "loves everyone", but at the same time, actively, violently, try to force everyone to conform to their religion.
You can scream about Islam all you want and how the USA is not like the Middle East, and no my concern is NOT about "Islam gaining a foothold in the USA". My concern is die-hard Christians and Catholics trying to turn a nation where people are supposed to be allowed to worship freely, into a strict religious theocracy.
They scream "No Sharia Law!" while, at the same time, trying to enforce a brutal Christian version of that exact same doctrine upon the USA.
Consider the following:
Book Bans - where ALL books that feature ANYTHING that the Christians dislike are immediately called "pornographic", "satanic", "indoctrinating", and "inappropriate". Even something as harmless as a kid's book about a little boy who likes to wear an orange dress and play pretend, or another book of a little boy who wants to dance in the ballet. Neither of those are "porn" and yet they are wildly decried and burned.
Books about someone who's gender fluid, or who's protagonist is LGBTQ+ is, somehow, "evil" simply for existing.
Books like the Harry Potter series burned and banned for being "Satanic".
Then there's the wildly violent attacks on LGBTQ+ people. MOST individuals who've been advocating for violence against them, and against people who support them, use "god" as their reasoning and claim that they are "good christians".
Then there's the laws deliberately ripping bodily autonomy away from women. There is NO medical, or scientific, reason for these laws. Only the fact of using "Christianity" and the "Christian bible" for their excuse. Laws that even make it illegal for doctors to treat women that are severely hemorrhaging after a miscarriage. The whole "No Exceptions" thing.
Now there is a major push to restrict women's rights further, for the "name of God" and trying to do things like making it illegal for women to divorce their husbands without husband permission. All because it's "in the bible."
Yeah, My concerns are 100% founded in reality. Everything I've stated is fact. The christian zealots are absolutely determined to turn the USA into a Theocracy every bit as brutal, and as blood-thirsty, as the terrorist religious groups in the middle east.
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Mrknowitall
It's a fact in your mind only
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Actually, it's a proven fact, not just 'in my mind", but something anyone with google and 10 seconds of time can look up. Not my problem if people have too much of an ego, or are too brainwashed, to want to do so.
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Mrknowitall
Anyone who uses Google as their ' Fact ' check has only an opinion. In case your not American, we are a Christian nation furthermore we are a Theocracy and that's what we want. And now we have the greatest president in the history of America back in office. Now I don't know if your gay but being gay is a mental disorder which pretty much describes your thoughts.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Anyone, such as yourself, that cannot realize that google is a SEARCH ENGINE in order to find the facts most certainly has only the barest grasp on technology and no grasp on "facts" at all.
First off, the United States is not a Theocracy. It is a Democratically run Republic that is a secular nation. Hence why the 1st amendment, put in by the Founding Fathers specifically states that no laws shall be placed to recognize any official religions, nor shall any religion be banned from being practiced in our nation.
You want to live in a Theocracy, go to Afghanistan.
Second, being gay is not a choice. It is genetics, literally, in a person's DNA. As earlier stated, and it is a proven AS fact multiple times over, a person is born gay. It's in how your DNA operates.
For example, there is not just "XX and XY." There is also XyX, Xy, xY, and XyY. There are four ways in which a person can be born outwardly appearing.
1) Born appearing female. 2) Born appearing male. 3) Born appearing to have both gender traits. 4) Born with no gender traits showing - the rarest of them all.
Now, you may not know this, but it's actually more common than you think for someone to be born with both gender traits. Let's take women with PCOS. PCOS's most common trait is that the woman's body produces far too much testosterone. You are likely well aware that is a mostly male hormone, though ALL women do make it in small proportions, the estrogen in their blood usually blots it out for the most part.
Women with that condition often have other, internal, male genetic markers. Yet, they were all born looking female. It's also why women with the condition often have trouble conceiving and trouble with keeping the pregnancies, due to the high testosterone levels.
It's also not unusual for women with the condition to also be trans, or lesbian. Due to the fact they are, at the genetic level, "wired" that way. It's not a mental illness, it's simply due to their DNA.
Now let's look at gay men. Like women making SOME testosterone, though again it's usually mostly blotted out by the estrogen in their blood, men do make SOME estrogen, though it's usually mostly subsumed by the testosterone in their blood. However, there are men who make far more estrogen than what a male body would normally make. This, of course, does lead to health issues just like PCOS in women, however, due to this, female genetic markers are more prevalent in them. They are born appearing to be male, but, internally, at the genetic level, they have female markers.
And then there are those who outwardly look female, but have actual male organs internally. That is to say testes. while it is rare, it's not unknown for a woman to be born with internal testes. Externally, they look like any other woman. Internally, however, their internal structure is male.
Then there are those who outwardly look male, but they have actual internal female organs. An underdeveloped uterus, for example, or ovaries, or both. While outwardly they were born appearing to be male, internally, their structure is female.
The case for this was actually brought to spotlight in the case of the female Olympic runner. She was born a woman, her birth cert says woman, and she identifies as a woman. However, internally, she has male structural organs. Underdeveloped, true, but they are producing enough testosterone to give her more strength than most other female athletes. Same with the female boxer. While she, too, was born a woman, it says such on her cert, and she identifies as such, she has male internal organs.
Now, some that have such end up transitioning, that is to say, having their outward appearance and lifestyle match their genetic makeup and internal markers, and some do not. And, of course, there are those who accept themselves as they are, and become gay / lesbian. Again, it's their DNA, nor a mental health issue.
There are even those known as "A-Sexual". Simply put, they have no attraction to any other person, at all. Sometimes it's later in life, sometimes they realize this of themselves at a younger age and refuse all such relations. Again it's not an aberration, it's merely the DNA.
And for your last statement. I'm sure you'll be QUITE happy living in a brutal dictatorship where gas will be $10 a gallon, a cart of groceries will cost $600 and anyone trying to buy even a used car will have to shell out $80,000, and new vehicles being $100,000 to $200,000 at the cheap end.
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Jannetje Eleanore Van Went
This always boggles my mind, the reason Nunes in Christen and Catholic faith take an oath of celibacy is to be married to their god right...then the celibacy of an advisor of this faith is being married to an order or a god...this species has claimed man as a god through men's design...then the Christian and Catholic faith is a same sex marriage of the entire serving position of the faith.
I never understood why they say they don't accept LGBTQ2 but yet they are same sex married to a male god, live only with men and consider themselves content in the love of a faith they share intimately with a commune of only men...
Please someone explain.
Is it to use people for conflict and wars?! Because that is what is happening here.
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Bond Wright
Brigit: Right on!
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David William Stewart
Abomination: Is something that causes hate or disgust. In biblical usage is something go loathes or hates because it is offensive to him and his Character.
Example of the Old Testament: Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman, it is abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death, their blood is on them.
Example of the New Testament: Romans 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged unnatural relations for those contrary to nature.
More Examples: Mark 10:6-9, Romans 1:27, Timothy 1:10, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Jude 1:7.
Not one place in the Holy Bible is there a Chapter or verse to support Homosexual relations or marriage. In the Middle East you would be put to death. I have seen Beheadings in Saudi Arabia while serving in the US Navy.
Good News: Chronicles 7:14 If my people who are called by my name and humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways. Then I will hear from the Heavens and will forgive their sin and heal their land.
Corinthians 7:2 But because of temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own Husband.
Homosexuality: Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the spirit of God.
Best news is if you repent of your wicked ways the Lord will wash away your sins. Our Lord Jesus Christ did not come to destroy us. He came and died for our sins to be forgiven. The only thing is to go to the Lord and repent and do not repeat your sin. Praise be to you Lord Jesus Christ for our salvation.
Peace and Love to you my brothers and sisters, Pastor David Stewart
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Thomas Hutchins
What about David and Jonathan? Love greater than a brother.. Esther and Ruth? Where you goest i will go… Just sayin..
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David William Stewart
How about them? What are you getting to here? That Homosexuality was, okay? It is spelled out for you above. Our God is a loving god. Repent and he will forgive you. Live in sin and wicked ways and we suffer. Lord Jesus did not come to earth to destroy man, nor women he came to save us of our sins. It is easy to repent and to stop the same sin. For as we are born into sin we must try to be baptized and repent as many times as needed. Being that said be serious when you repent for most of us know right from wrong. Amen
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Daniel Gray
David was not gay no matter how you try and claim it was otherwise. And you have a disgusting mind if you are trying to say that Ester and Ruth were or try and imply such. One was a mother in law and one was a daughter in law. Ho9w pathetic your post is.
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Chris
The problem is not everyone follows your religion, and thus shouldn't be required to follow it just because you like it. Yes, everyone should love one another and live and let live and quit judging each other. Not gonna happen though. Not while we have an entire political party trying to push their abomination of religion into law. Not while we have people using their religion to discriminate. Not while we have so many people trying to eliminate the very existence of a large group of their fellow citizens for no valid reason.
Much as I'd love to have everyone just get along, I don't see it happening.
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David William Stewart
Blessed are the peacemaker for they shall be called the Children of God.
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Russel A. Kester
And the fallout from trans and queer activists continues. This isn't really a decision on gay marriage, it's a decision to pull the wind from the progressive sails that threaten our country. How far will it go? Considering how odious the activities of the trans and queer communities are, perhaps very far indeed.
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James Riggle-Johnson
We’ve been fighting this for hundreds of years and we will fight it again. They can try to make LGB and yes, TQ people disappear but it is never going to work. We are human beings. When they take away the freedoms from one group of people, they won’t stop there. Soon they’ll be coming for another group of people they don’t like.
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David William Stewart
They are just look at the Catholic Church. All conservatives are under attack by the Pope and the FBI. Look at the Fall of the Church of England. These Churches have lost their way due to man's Doctrines. The Pope thinks he is God on earth. Before long the entire Bible will be under attack, and it is. Many WOKE Clergy want to rewrite a new Bible and they have started it.
Love in Jesus Crist to all of you. Pastor David Stewart
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James Riggle-Johnson
First, the Catholic Church believe the Pope speaks for God, and that he is the Vicar of Jesus Christ. They believe the Pope has taken up the mantle of the Apostle Peter. Second, Christians and conservatives are not under attack. They are in fact the ones attacking people they don’t believe are worthy. They are the ones who keep bring up how bad LGBTQ people are, and that we are after children. It’s the same thing they’ve been doing since I can remember. It wasn’t true then and it is not true now.
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David William Stewart
And your point is that Conserves are attacking LGBTQ? ROFLMAO Get real WOKNESS! God loves all people. He did not send his son to die on a cross to destroy anyone. Jesus died for the forgiveness of sin. Unnatural sexual desires and acts disgust God. Refer me to one verse in the Bible or any other Holy book that says this is right. May Jesus Bless you.
Love you through Jesus Christ. Pastor David Stewart
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James Riggle-Johnson
The book you speak of was not written by God, but men. Regular old men that when the despised someone or something, they simply proclaimed GOD SAYS THAT IS ABOMINATION! If we are created by God and God does not make mistakes, then I’m exactly what I was meant to be. I don’t care what a group of sexually repressed old men wrote about it.
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Daniel Gray
prove it. And since you cant prove that they are not repeating the word of God, this all this is is your OPINION nothing more
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David William Stewart
Blessings to all of you through the Lord Jesus Christ. Why argue so much and put others down for their faith. Our Fathers greatest commandment was to "Love your god with all your heart." The second was to "Love one another as you love yourself." I recommend everyone take the time to read the New Testament of the Holy Bible. The book of Acts as a starter. Also read the Book of John and Matthew. When people act as individuals and put their ideas out it is like the Catholic Church who is in great torment throughout the world right now under this very liberal Pope. Man's Doctrines keep changing until the entire Holy Bible is not being used to live our life by. Be kind to each other. Love your brothers and sisters. Do not judge a person's beliefs in the Holy Bible. If we can love each other as we love ourselves, just walk away from those who don't agree with you. Judgement day is the Lord's. Not ours as people.
I love all of you through Jesus Christ, Pastor David William Stewart
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
so your recommendation to jews, hindus, muslims, jains, pagans, seikhs, buddhists , shintoists, rastafarians and many others for them to read your bible?
why not the other way around; maybe you should read one of their bibles and live by their accords instead just automatically assuming that yours are the right and necessary ones.
ULC is NOT just for kkkris chins despite what you may often read here. it's supposed to be for all people of all - or no - religion. ...all children of the universe...amirite
that people come here under the assumption that they and their beliefs are the only (true) ones is just a disservice to everyone else who believes differently.
therein lies the problem: too many religions claim superiority over all overs that those followers not only assume theirs is the only true one but in doing so, overtly or covertly insult all others with their egotism and certitude
as the GREAT FLYING SPAGHETTI is wont to say; Just Chill, Dude and have a Beer May he bless you with his noodley appendages Ramen
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David William Stewart
Brother why do you criticize everyone. Go and do good not hate. We must be tolerant of each other. I serve one God. This Church allows us that. Be of good cheer and specify what your religious beliefs are. I would not attack you for them. I Love you through my Lord Jesus Christ.
Pastor Dave
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James Riggle-Johnson
I guess this makes things a little easier to discriminate against anyone you wish. All you need to do is say helping this person is against my religion. What’s next… an emergency room doctor says this person has AIDS so, their lifestyle is against my faith, and I don’t have to treat them. This couple is gay, so I don’t have to serve them in my restaurant. That person is gay, so I refuse to employee them.
This cannot continue. Next we will have whites only water fountains and lunch counters. These are human beings.
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Gary Leu
Ethical and professional conduct requires that people perform their jobs for the benefit of the people they serve. One’s personal opinions do not take priority over their professional duties and conduct. If you work for the government you are a public servant. To put your personal opinions and beliefs above your professional conduct is ethically wrong and is the height of egocentrism. They are their to represent their profession not to impose their religious choices onto others.
Let’s say a person is hired as a DJ for parties but has religious objections to dancing. So, the DJ demands that nobody dance when they are performing.
Consider a police officer who refuses to arrest a husband for brutally beating his wife because his religion believes that women should be subject to their husbands. A wife is a husband’s property and he may do whatever he wants to her.
To support their religious beliefs, the DJ and the police officer should be fired so that may be free to find jobs that conform to their beliefs.
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Scott MacArthur
Finally, a rebuttal I can agree with. Attempting to use the constitution and the SCOTUS to enforce your own beliefs. When, in such a position as to be able to make decisions over someone’s life values, over the oath of office which is required of such a position, which is to serve everyone equally, just stinks of trying to push your own agenda.
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Reverend Andrew
So let me ask this ! Can a Dr. now refuse to care for a LGBTQ+ Person because their faith says they can't
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Tecla Caryl Loup
Sure, you can. But how does this affect your tax status? And your following the precepts of your Holy Person? I am not necessarily a follower of Jesus, but according to the texts that we have regarding his teachings, he had some pretty good ideas, like loving and doing for others.
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Daniel Gray
yes they can the only exception to this rule is if they are an emergency room doctor and they are the only ones on duty at the time.
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Michael Hunt
So much for the Hippocratic Oath then... "I shall do by my patients as I would be done by; shall obtain consultation whenever I or they desire; shall include them to the extent they wish in all important decisions; and shall minimize suffering whenever a cure cannot be obtained, understanding that a dignified death is an important goal in everyone's life."
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Ari Joseph Bertine
I can see them arguing that their obligation to their god overrules any oaths they take to anyone or anything else, but then that leaves out the issue of why they bothered to take a false oath to begin with. Nevermind the fact that allowing someone to suffer because your religious rules forbid them to do something is pretty evil and absolutely the opposite of loving your neighbor or reaching out to show the kindness of your faith. It's pretty clear that if someone does take that exception, they are only a doctor for the money and they are only a Christian for the image.
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Daniel Gray
and what you seem to ignore Hunt, is these are NOT their patients....they just came to the emergency room nothing more.
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Michael Hunt
If you work in the ER, your patients are the ones who come into the ER.
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Danny D. Maynard
One's reputation is one the line. Yelp! is a good incentiviser!
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Douglas Robert Spindler
This is all part of Project 2025 and the Wedge Strategy from the Design Institute.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Haters hiding behind a collar. It's time for Christians to be declared a hate group and pull them out of legal proceedings.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
Not all Christians are like that. There are plenty of Christian Justices of the Peace who perform same-sex marriages because they are following the teachings of Jesus rather than cherry-picking ancient Judaic laws. There are lots of Christians who actually do practice kindness and love for their neighbor, for strangers, and for everyone. They just don't make the news because they're not hurting anyone, like these belligerent ones are.
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Chris
Indeed. My wife is a Methodist pastor and has no problem performing same-sex weddings. But then we live in Trumplandia so it doesn't come up all that often.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Public officials, unable to fulfill their obligations to anyone qualified to receive the necessary service, that such public official is obligated to give, should be fired, after she was duly convicted of refusing to do what she was required to do, in the performance of her duties.
As a ULC minister, and now recently a recipient of both chaplaincy and missionary recognition, I’ve come out of retirement and am now planning to apply to be an advisor with the Tulsa County Oklahoma public schools, if and when Oklahoma begins hiring chaplains (for which, thanks to the ULC ministries) and am well prepared to council anyone, about anything— thanks be to nature and science. Starting salary, $50,000 range, and up.
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Daniel Gray
And they cant. You are way too delusional claiming something you are not and seemingly ignoring that according to the McGirt decision by the Supremes over half of Oklahoma belongs to the Five Civilized Nations (Native Americans) and since they are their own Governments, they dont have to listen to you or to the Oklahoma State School Superintendent. meaning you wont get hired.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Public officials, unable to fulfill their obligations to anyone qualified to receive the necessary service, that such public official is obligated to give, should be fired, after she was duly convicted of refusing to do what she was required to do, in the performance of her duties.
As a ULC minister, and now recently a recipient of both chaplaincy and missionary recognition, I’ve come out of retirement and am now planning to apply to be an advisor with the Tulsa County Oklahoma public schools, if and when Oklahoma begins hiring chaplains (for which, thanks to the ULC ministries) and am well prepared to council anyone, about anything— thanks be to nature and science. Starting salary, $50,000 range, and up.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
Excellent, your Excellency. I have all the confidence in the world that you will be an amaze-balls chaplain and teach/guide/minister/administer to them thar younguns down oklahoma way. Dog knows their edjewkashun sistim kant b eny mor worser then it alreddy iz and you wood b a breth o fresh air. teech em up a bunch o siance wille you thar peas b witchu
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Daniel Gray
Yet again you make a claim to a title you do not have. And in the McGirt decision by the SCOTUS, the five civilized nations (all native american nations) are their own separate laws unto themselves. and they own over 50% of Oklahoma so they dont have to listen to any state official who thinks they are they state superintendent. And as a member of the Cherokee nation, I can safely assure you that they will have nothing to do with you or your "progressive" beliefs so you dont even need to try and apply. And considering Tulsa and Broken Arrow are now listed as being on the Cherokee owned land in Oklahoma, your chances of getting hired are 0%
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Nicholas J Page
We are all equal in God's eye's Another case of discrimination As per usual.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
a persons religion should not be used to discriminate. Your religion is a choice. Being a member of the LGBTQIA2S+ community is not.
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Merlin
How does the minority control the majority? Fear and chaos. It’s a proven tactic until it don’t. All revolutions were initiated by fear. Remember, evil loves fear and chaos.
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Rev. Carol M Anaski-Figurski
My opinion too on Kim Davis. She should have got her supervisor to issue the marriage license to that couple.
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Reverend Andrew
She was the supervisor . She would not even let her staff issue the marriage license .
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Clay Serenbetz
The Kim Davis case established a precedent for the USA. The Texas Court is trying to get the new Conservative Court to overturn its decision after only 9 years. Sadly, the Texas Court may succeed given the new right-wing majority. To reiterate the ACLU's position: "When you do a job on behalf of the government — as an employee or a contractor — there is no license to discriminate or turn people away because they do not meet religious criteria. Our government could not function if everyone doing the government's business got to pick their own rules.”
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James Riggle-Johnson
Well said.
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
If she's not willing to do the job she's paid for, she should resign and make way for someone who is.
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Danny D. Maynard
That is the crux of the entire problem. As the elected County Clerk Recorder, there was no one higher up in the county that could issues a marriage license, and she denied having a facsimile of her signature applied to those marriage licenses. When pressed, she stop issuing any marriage licenses whatsoever in Rowan County, Kentucky. Then the hetero couples were up in arms too! At that point, she violated her oath of office and the civil rights of all persons who came to that office for service. She was warned by the President, the Vice President, the Governor of Kentucky, the Attorney General of Kentucky, the Attorney General of Rowan County and others, that she was violating her oath of office, the law and an order by the Federal District Judge. She spent an appropriate week in jail, and then changed her mind willingly.
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Rev. Carol M Anaski-Figurski
It's okay I agree, that couple could go to another wedding officiant. I can perform same sex marriages for LGBT. It's better for LGBT to get married to their partner, in the eyes of God then live in sin without marriage.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Christ died for your sins. There is no more sin, or he was brutally executed for no reason.
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Lionheart
That of course is a man made fallacy, but thank you for your comment.
🦁❤️
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Are you saying Christ didn't die for your sins?
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Michael Hunt
What evidence is there that Christ even existed? Let alone evidence that he died for our sins as the son of God.
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Daniel Gray
And where is your proof that he wasnt?
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Michael Hunt
In the same place as the proof that unicorns and fairies do not exist.
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Tecla Caryl Loup
Marriage is a legal contract regarding ownership and has nothing to do with affection, et al. Of course it is a great idea when one is in love. But the legal aspects are supremely important. So one should not enter into such a relationship unless one is clear about what's whose. You can proclaim your love for someone until the cows come home, but if lit ends, it's about the division of wealth.
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Danny D. Maynard
Marriage is the act of changing one's inheritance rights from one's family to the other partner in the marriage. It has absolutely nothing to do with religion! How do I know that is true? Atheists get married all the time.
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Larry Mager
Our country was never a Godly country, no matter what anyone believes. While I think the Supreme Court of the Land should stay out of our business, I DO think that going somewhere else to tie the knot might be a good idea, THEN sue the State "supreme" court. For a party who believes in states' rights, they sure are sticking their noses where they don't belong. I'd be just as happy if the Federal govt. pulled all of their offices like NASA, OUT of Texas and boot them out of the union. Let them be their OWN country again. That is just my own opinion, however.
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James Mounts
**Larry Mager. After reading that you know the truth about all the "fake" Christians in U.S. history, why was I not surprised that your grasp of law was equally as poor. To believe all those "fake Christians" on the Texas Supreme Court would grant you standing to sue it you are in Cloud Coocoo Land.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
There's no hate like Christian / Catholic "love". This is a SECULAR nation. And the LGBTQI+ individuals are NOT asking for "special treatment" unlike what the hate-filled bigots keep trying to claim. All they're asking for is the SAME rights that everyone else get.
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Reverend Andrew
as TX2 Says there is no Love like christian Hate.
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Rev. MichaelRS
This is the concern that was raised by a number of faith leaders during the first part of the century when it looked like same-sex marriage was headed to being codified state by state and then nationally.
That concern being that they would be forced to participate in them against the tenants of their faith or face civil prosecution.
At that time assurances were given from the alphabet activist and various politicians that that would not be the case. But once the genie was out of the bottle... .
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Danny D. Maynard
Secular laws prevail; not religious laws!
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Daniel Gray
and the 1st Amendment clearly says Secular laws CANNOT force a violation of religion.
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Patricia Ann Gross
Sorry, but the 1st Amendment says that you cannot pass a law "respecting the establishment of a religion or prohibiting the free exercise therof." It seems to me like the JP is trying to establish/force her religion more than her job was violating the free exercise of her religion. The courthouse is not a church. If that is her stance, she is free to see if her church would hire her. Would she marry a Catholic to a protestant? What about a Jewish person to an athiest? These are other areas where the "church" may not be welcoming to a wedding of this type, but the courthouse should be. I agree, she could have handled this better and asked someone else if they would perform the wedding, but then she wouldn't be famous and have her name associated with a judicial ruling that limits everyone in choosing to marry who they love. That is more of what this is about than her "religious rights."
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Daniel Gray you keep getting it wrong. Try reading the 1st Amendment in it's entirety. Like many Christians who read the Bible they only pay attention to the parts they want to be true and ignore the rest.
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Daniel Gray
No I keep getting it correct and thats what makes you upset as all you can do is claim I got it wrong and yet show no proof that I did.
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Rev Deborah Dunkle (Raven Wolf Song)
Sounds like a bigot hiding behind a smoke screen of Christian belief dispite the Messiah teaching tolerance and love. Her misguided belief hangs upon Leviticus. What people ignore is Leviticus is about Judaic law and what was acceptable in Bronze Age Israel.
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Rev. MichaelRS
So what God has declared to be sin, as outlined in the judeo-christian scriptures, is subject to the cultural foibles and predilections of man from century to century?
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Danny D. Maynard
So far, there is no evidence that God declared anything. All those declarations were made by human beings. You make similar declarations all the time. But it is not God; it is you who make those declarations!
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Joe R Day
"So, what God has declared to be sin." I am unaware that God The Almighty has ever said anything. The last 'reported' instance was Moses on Mt Sinai when the 10 commandments were given to humans. There was no one else with Moses when this happened and to say "God has declared" anything is a giant leap of faith. To assume there is an Omnipotent, Omniscient entity that watches over his 'flock' is a Leap of Faith that many do not share. To blatantly state that 'God' has declared anything is incorrect and unprovable.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
It certainly seems to be. When was the last time we saw a news article about someone in a fish market refusing to sell shellfish, or someone working in a BBQ restaurant refusing to serve pork, or someone working in a department store refusing to sell mixed-fiber fabrics? Does anyone ever do those things? Do we hear anyone condemning people for doing those things? In fact, why do Christians eat pork at all? Why have Christians decided that it's okay to work on the Sabbath and completely ignore it, having declared Sunday their holy day instead of the one originally declared by scripture? ALL of those things are declared as sinful, as outlined in the Judeo-Christian scriptures. All of them. But clearly something has changed due to the cultural predilections of man from century to century. Cherry-picking is something that humans do for their own satisfaction and it is very telling of someone's nature when they only sins they condemn are those they themselves are uninterested in committing.
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Daniel Gray
And you sound like a moron who does not seem to understand the US Constitution actually protects her right to do this no matter if you like it or not. Would be the same thing if they forced you to accept and comply with another religion or no religion.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray you have a complete lack of understanding of Constitution of the United States. You like so many Christians THINK they understand but in reality just take bits and pieces out of context to think you have proven your point. Much like with Christians do when the read the Bible.
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Daniel Gray
My understanding of the Constitution is based on what it actually says, not what you wish it said. If you think she cant do this then please show where in the Constitution it says she must do this. I wont hold my breath waiting
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Daniel Gray - Your understanding of the constitution like the Bible is incorrect.
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Daniel Gray
Prove me wrong then. I bet you cant as all you have is your opinion, nothing more. While I have numerous SCOTUS decisions and the 1st Amendment backing me up.
The balls in your court. Prove me wrong.
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Chris
She is in a secular position. Religion has nothing to do with it. If her religion is so important she needs to get a job where she can follow her beliefs. Until then, she's nothing but a bigot using religion to discriminate. I'd hazard a guess she doesn't follow most of the actual tenets of her "beliefs" in the first place.
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Rev Deborah Dunkle (Raven Wolf Song)
They can contact me I’d be glad to perform same sex marriages.
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Daniel Gray
WRONG! The 1st Amendment clearly states that you CANNOT make a law that requires a person to violate their religious beliefs. Now if the SSC wants to get a marriage license they absolutely can, they just cannot force her to issue it. No matter what anyone says or claims the law is clear. As such the judge cannot fine her nor force her to comply if it violates her 1st Amendment rights and if this makes some people upset...tough too bad.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
what about if her religion says miscegenation is wrong and so she refuses to issue a license to a mixed race couple?
how about if she refuses to issue a license to a elderly couple who want to get married but clearly are too old to have children. she could refuse to issue the license since marriage is specifically to procreate according to here strongly held religious beliefs
for the love of DOG all she is being asked to do is officiate a wedding according to state law/statutes. what will happen if government functionaries everywhere decide they will not perform their duties because it "violates" their religious beliefs?
all I can say is, the worm turns and don't come back crying and whining when this whole kkkris chin nationalist, dominionist, kkkristofascist backfires, and it will, and the rule of law finally puts you all back in your caves where you belong.
the revolution is coming, it won't be broadcast on tv, but it is indeed coming
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Daniel Gray
Are you really that ignorant Father JJ? The law says religion and NO recognized religion says you cannot marry a person from another race. Quite a few religions say no same sex marriages. MAJOR difference. And the ONLY way to "turn the worm" as you claim is with a constitutional amendment either modifying the 1st Amendment or removing it all together. And that is never going to happen so your fantasy isnt going to happen either so your "revolution" is never going to happen in your lifetime nor your great grand childrens lifetime so why worry about it.
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Michael Hunt
Daniel, I've had people tell me the Bible outlaws mixing races. If you don't think racists have used the Bible to justify their actions, you're the ignorant one.
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Daniel Gray
No YOU are the ignorant one, show me where in the bible it says that. I wont hold my breath waiting
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Ari Joseph Bertine
Look up Pastor Donny Reagan of the Happy Valley Church of Jesus Christ in TN. That was just ten years ago. The KKK is all Christians. Most white supremacists are Christian. That means that somewhere out there are legally established Christian denominations that say you can't marry a person from another race, and they justify it by their own interpretation of the Bible (look up the Curse of Ham). People can rationalize ANYTHING they want into their religion, and they do that often.
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Daniel Gray
And The Black Panther movement as well as the spanish movement (Azteca) are the exact same thing. Azteca wants to take all of the southwestern states for their so called homeland and the Black Panthers use any force they can to try and get their way. So it would seem that each group has their own version of idiots. And you do know that the KKK was started by and was and is mostly Democrat run, right?
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Rev “D”
Not discussing a black panther member being a public employee refusing a public service to members of the public because of the black panther’s beliefs are we? Stay focused. If any public employee’s private beliefs interfere with the agreement to serve the public lawfully, they should not be in a governmental administrative role. She should go become a minister in her church so she can uphold her church’s,, ohh my bad, she can’t because christian sects do not allow female ministers. Hmm wheres her rights at church?
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Daniel Gray
yea right. Azteca is claiming that is their religious homeland, and then BPM is claiming this is how they celebrate their religion against oppression. You really dont look things up before you reply do you D?
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Robert James Ruhnke
Then she needs to find someone who can, OR, find another job. Stop pushing your incomplete understanding of the constitution, Gray. She has no right to push her religion onto anyone.
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Daniel Gray
My understanding of the Constitution is far better then yours Ruhnke always I base it on ESTABLISHED Supreme Court rulings and what it says. Or are you now going to tell me and everyone else that the Little Sisters of the Poor, the Flower arranger, the Cake maker, the Michigan farmers market and the maine school decisions are all wrong because YOU say they are and it goes against what you believe?
Hows about you actually do something that is completely foreign to you. Hows about you read what the SCOTUS and the Constitution say about this and then come back and apologize to everyone for your lack of understanding of what the Constitution and the highest court in the land actually says and not what you want them to say
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Rev Big Al
I agree with Daniel. Just find some one else to marry you what is the big deal.
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Michael Hunt
The big deal is that you might not be able to find someone else. The government is supposed to be there to serve all of it's people, not just the ones who practice their same religion.
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Daniel Gray
So any judge can do it, so whats your point, if you have one.
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Tom
And what if every judge in your area refuses to do it because of a religious belief? That's basically what has happened in this article!
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Daniel Gray
then you just go to another judge. The law is not there for your implied convenience.
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Nathaniel Robert Hunt
I will preform gay weddings since my religion has no issues with it, and it's my protected religious right as clergy in my faith to do it
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Daniel Gray
and nobody is denying that, its also a violation of the 1st amendment for you to try and force someone to violate their religious beliefs. You cant complain about one and then demand you comply with theirs.
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Rev “D”
Seems that once again, a christian wants to inflict their beliefs into governmental administration. You are aware these two separate entities? And if you can’t do the job requirements cause it allegedly conflicts with your self accepted bigoted beliefs, you should not be there at all. By the way, since bible has conditions regarding her husband’s approval, how we know its not his beliefs she is forced to accept?
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Daniel Gray
Seems once again D is upset because the facts do not fit into his opinion and in fact destroy it.
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Chris
Daniel, your knowledge of the Constitution is incomplete. It clearly states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof....' Congress is not involved in this case. It's purely a state case.
And again, since this is a secular job, if she can't do it because of her religious beliefs she should find another job. How would she feel if she went into a sandwich shop and the person refused to make a ham sandwich because they're Jewish or Muslim? Or a Muslim refused to give her a driver's license because he doesn't believe women should drive?
And how do we know where this judge will stop with the discrimination. If a pagan showed up in court would the judge automatically rule against them because of religion? Or refuse to hear the case because the prosecution is pagan or atheist?
Sure, she could go somewhere else. I would, and I would make sure to let everyone know exactly what happened. The point remains that as a secular position religion shouldn't have anything to do with it.
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Daniel Gray
And once again it also says NO government can make a law that would force her to violate her religious beliefs. this is a government job and is bound by the 1st Amendment. So please show where I am wrong or where you think I am wrong since the Constitution is the SUPREME law of the land that everyone has to follow
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Chris
No, Daniel, you are wrong. I refer you to the official website of the Constitution: https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-1/
It only states that Congress shall not. Nowhere does it state that no government can do it. Please, educate yourself.
Since I have proven you wrong, I will not waste any more of my time replying to you on this topic.
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Daniel Gray
And I refer you to Article 1 Section1 of the US Constitution which trumps your source each and every time.
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Carl Henry Hauschulz
So your lgbtq beliefs are ok to push aside her beliefs? Quakers served in the armed forces, but not to fight. Clerical, administrative and medical services by them were ok though...
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Michael Hunt
No one chooses to be LGBTQ, they are born that way. We have decades of data to prove that it's a biological imperative and not a social choice. No one is born Christian or Muslim or any religion; that is something taught to them.
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Daniel Gray
And wrong yet again. I can name you hundreds of people who chose to be lbgtq. And the ones I tell you the names of would most likely shock you. Take for instance Elton John, for the majority of his life he had relationships with women, it was only recently he switched teams
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Tawnya Jean Luke
No sir, it was not recently. Elton married because he tried to push aside his own desires. Natural desires he was born with. It did not work. He was born attracted to men. Nearly every species have same sex relationships. Nearly all species have members who are attracted to both sexes. Science doesn't care about bigotry or belief. The natural world couldn't care less how I feel or you feel. You have a protected right to worship freely, but you are not free to use your religious belief to control others. Impartiality is a must in any position of power. Justice is blind. Justice doesn't have a religion. Marriage is secular. Keep religion out of my peanut butter and I'll keep my peanut butter off your religion.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry wrong again Elton John/Berry manilow/Wayne Brady/Cynthia Nixon/Niecy Nash/Victor Garber/ Queen Latifah/Joel Grey/Wanda Sykes/Alison Brie/ Kevin Spacey/Jodie Foster/Chrishell Stause/Ian McKellen/Elvira(Cassandra Peterson)/Ricky Martin/Caitlyn(Bruce)Jenner and a host of others. And then you have people who suddenly decided they were gay https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/06/opinions/melisa-raney-coming-out-later-in-life-as-gay-lesbian/index.html
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/14/people-who-come-out-in-later-life-lgbtq
So I guess you are not as intelligent as you think you are.Nor are you as based on facts either.
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Rev “D”
Mr. Gray, please stop. The displayed bs and ignorance is getting a bit much. Elton John has been himself his whole life, with whomever he wanted to be with. As should anyone else on planet Earth be allowed. Or is your creator so threatened by his creations actions which your creator allows.
All of us are who we are, and with time learn to choose accordingly.
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Daniel Gray
Whats wrong D? Mad because I destroyed that old fake argument in less time then it took you to complain? Facts are facts and they do not fit your opinion or agenda no matter how you wish it was otherwise
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Michael Hunt
That's patently false, Gray. Read Elton's biography and you'll see that you're straight up wrong.
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Daniel Gray
I did and he said the same thing.
Wife: Reane Blauel (m.1984, div.1988)
Circa 1968 to 1970 John was in a relationship with Linda Woodrow and they were engaged to be married.
And Elton didnt come out as gay until the Elton John: Uncensored -- BBC Special.
Heck you probably still believe that John Lennon was straight...he wasnt. According to Yoko Ono he was a switch hitter. And she should know.
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Tecla Caryl Loup
So she shouldn't be able to proclaim tax exempt status on the fee(s) she might claim.
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Michael Hunt
The First Amendment says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..."
How does issuing a same-sex couple a marriage license violate her religions beliefs, first of all. Where in the Bible does it say that issuing a marriage license to a same-sex couple is a sin? How does having to issue a license prevent her from freely exercising her religion?
Secondly, if a public official is using their religion to deny a right to another citizen, they are using their state given power to impose their own religious beliefs upon someone else.
This is by no means a surprising decision by a very conservative and Christian friendly supreme court in Texas but boy is it disheartening to see that our government is giving more and more rights and powers to religious zealots while stripping the rights of those who share different beliefs.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
She is including in her religious beliefs the belief that it is her duty to force other people to follow her religious beliefs. And she is cherry-picking implications--she is seeing her issuing marriage licenses to same sex couples as aiding/abetting what she considers sinful, but she is not seeing collecting a paycheck from an institution that issues marriage licenses to same sex couples as sinful, because that would interfere with her getting money. It's all about how to put a spin on things for her own convenience and her own spiteful satisfaction in throwing her religious weight around.
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Daniel Gray
Nope sorry she is doing exactly what the law says she CAN do. You dont like it then get the 1st Amendment changed.
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Alisha Michelle Edwards
I agree 100% Most people have never even read the entire Constitution! I am quite sure there are others in that building whom could have issued the license.
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I'm a gay man and I didn't choose to be gay. I have been gay all my life. I discovered I was gay when I was 11 years old. The constitution does protect Religious Freedom, In fact the founding of the United States is based on Religious Freedom, When colonists came to America around 300 so years ago came came for Religious Freedom, to escape Religious persecution like my 9th Great Grand Father did back in 1683 when he converted to Quakerism.