In a stark reversal of previous policy, the Trump administration announced yesterday that it will offer protection to doctors, nurses, and other healthcare workers who refuse to participate in certain procedures due to their religious beliefs. Drawing upon principles of religious freedom, healthcare workers are now free to say "no" if asked to perform a procedure they deem immoral such as an abortion.
Signaling their commitment to this ideal, the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) is even creating an entire new division to handle such cases. The Division of Conscience and Religious Freedom will protect the rights of doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers to decline to offer treatment if it violates their moral or faith principles.
"For too long too many of these healthcare practitioners have been bullied and discriminated against because of their religious beliefs and moral conviction," said HHS Secretary Eric Hargan. "President Trump promised the American people that his administration would vigorously uphold the rights of conscience and religious freedom. That promise is being kept today."
Swift Criticism
The decision drew immediate backlash from many pro-choice advocates. They're concerned that women's access to abortion services already limited in many areas will become even more scarce as a result of this new policy.
But critics also warn that the guidance could apply to other procedures in addition to abortion, such as sex-change operations or other medical services that run contrary to certain religious beliefs. They argue it will essentially give healthcare providers a license to discriminate against anyone whose lifestyle doesn't align with their moral convictions.
"Donald Trump's administration is handing out permission slips for hospitals and providers to deny individuals, including women and LGBT patients, access to a full range of health services including lifesaving emergency care," said Dawn Huckelbridge, director of a prominent women's rights group.
Harper Jean Tobin, of the National Center for Transgender Equality, went even further: "This is the use of religion to hurt people because you disapprove of who they are."
Religious Freedom Advocates Cheer
On the other end of the spectrum, many faith groups and conservative Christians applauded the move, saying healthcare workers can now act according to their consciences without fear of being fired.
"No nurse or doctor should lose her job, her livelihood or her profession because of her faith," said Missouri Congresswoman Vicky Hartzler.
Echoing this sentiment, Trump administration official Roger Severino defended the move, saying: "No one should be forced to choose between helping sick people and living by one's deepest moral or religious convictions, and the new division will help guarantee that victims of unlawful discrimination find justice."
What Would Jesus Do?
While many Christians were supportive of the new policy, some argued that it runs contrary to the Biblical principle of offering love and assistance to all. "When I look at how Jesus responded to the people who came to him to be healed, I can find no example of him turning anyone away. This is the example we should emulate in America," says UCC Reverend Mike Scheunemeyer.
Where do you stand?
Does this policy constitute a legitimate expansion of religious freedom, or does it simply encourage discrimination?
106 comments
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Val Jester
21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a [d]propitiation [e]in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised kby faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one. 31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.
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The Doctor
I hope you grasp bibilical babble from archaic text are meaningless dribble to people of other faiths. What you believe is your business in your home and head. Outside of those places you should understand they are nothing to be concerned with. The moment you try to use your faith babble you have lost any and every argument. Especially when I can promise you that your version is not the actual version that anyone who was an actual follower of Jesus wrote.
Every english translation is so corrupted by intentional alterations by various kings dictates over the last 2000 years you can bet safely you fail to live by a code Jesus would approve of.
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James
Freedom of religion, not from religion. If your faith causes you to not take part in a thing ;then why be forced to do it. To me, it has nothing to do with abortion, medical, profession, etc. It has to do with being free. You aren't going to tell me that I can't live in peace. Regardless of your emotions.
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John Maher
NOT EVEN G O D tells ONE WHAT, WHO, WHERE or WHEN to WORSHIP ONLY DOTAR ORANGUtRUMP so if HE DOTAR ORANGUtRUMP is YOUR G O D well then VOTE for the TRAITOR AGAIN in 2020 !!! VILLAGE IDIOTS !!!
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Tom B
John...i agree that God does not order anyone to do anything...only the man-made religions do that...Tom
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Val jester
John Maher, do you need to get back on your meds? I think it will help with a number of things. Cognition, writing, emotions, etc.
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William Waugh
John tends to be just a little one dimensional but he's right on target.
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Walter Matulis
Is this love?
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Tom B
Walter...what John Maher states about God is true...God does not tell anyone to do anything, except to love...Tom
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Minister V
But I have no freedom for me to practice my religion if yours is forced upon me. Thus Freedom of Religion also necessitates Freedom FROM Religion.
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Janice A Ellery
Jesus did heal prostitutes and sinners.There is a difference here between rejecting a person because of their lifestyle and participating in an act someone considers amoral. Would Jesus have terminated a pregnancy if a woman asked him to?
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Carrie
It seems to me that this "pro life" bull is just another way of raping the public. Honestly, how can you be pro life yet for the death penalty? How can you be anti abortion and yet wash your hands over the raising of the child, the health care, the education, the nutrition, the love and the support? Outside of the place of worship, these outmoded thoughts belong in the waste bin. A Dr. is a servant to the sick. The job is to cure, not to judge. Politics has NO business mixing in with how a person lives their life, as long as it is within the law. Trump is a sick man who panders to sick minds. He is a failure in every aspect of life and will face his own karma when his time comes. As for the "moralists" who are more truly immoral, they shall face the same.
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Tom B
Carrie...well said...i agree...Tom
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Val jester
Carrie don’t let your own logic trap you. How can you be pro abortion and against the death penalty.
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Tom B
Val...logic is an intellectual exercise...there is a difference between blocking someone from coming into the world, and taking someone out of it...but in the end, it is a karmic issue, and not one for which we should follow the dictates of any religion...peace...Tom
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William Waugh
And yet this sick mind amassed billions before getting elected. Proves two things. One, the 1% are truly corrupt. Two, people, like some birds, like shiny things.
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Writehanded
Our government, acting on the behalf of “We the People” is now into the 18th year of “robo-killing” wars, targeting those who would do us harm along with “colateral damage”, meaning ordinary humans that want nothing more than to live their lives in a context most meaningful to themselves. Murder is calls itself by many names. Pick and choose...As they say,” The devil is in the details “.
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Tom B
William..i agree...and your comparison is accurately poetic...Tom
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Steve
here is my 2 cents worth on this one. First off i am pro choice i feel a person should have the choice have they're baby or not I also feel (Pro Choice if you will) any person should have the CHOICE and not be forced to do a job they feel morally wrong about. If your boss gives you a job you don't agree with and tels tou to do it or be fired do you still do it or do you think you should have the opportunity to refuse with out the threat of being fired. (on a side note i am NOT a supporter of Trump(I feel he will destroy our country and freedoms as we know it) but thats a different discussion) that's just my opinion i could be wrong
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Jim
I will throw in a few cents I guess. The choice was made when you decide to have sex! We all know how babies are made. If there is a choice on this issue why are the males that are responsible on the other end held for child support if she decides to keep the baby. They did not have a choice did they? On the Trump note. He can say some really dumb things but I think he is getting back to the founding fathers ideas.
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Karl Bergman
Here are a few more cents. Out county's health care was 90% taken over by Catholic Health Initiatives (CHI). CHI will not allow abortions to be performed at any of their facilities, nor by any of their providers, regardless of their providers beliefs. In fact they even attempt to stop the provision of birth control. So who has the choice here? We are all being discriminated against due to our differences of religious opinion. And as the original story pointed out the Trump administration is trying to give your religious opinion legal status against mine. That violates the Constitution and is illegal. That is not a choice, that is a violation of the law.
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Chuck
Heres my 2 cents........
First off, abortion is infanticide (murder). Plain and simple. It is protected by the powers that be because it is a form of population control, and specifically geared toward minorities. That's why you find Planned Parenthood in poorer/minority areas. Not a surprise since the organization was founded by a racist and eugenicist (Margaret Sanger).
Conversely, killing a pregnant woman will get you charged with double homicide...... proof abortion is in fact murder, but protected from up on high by very evil people. Incidentally, the ultimate in satanic human sacrifice is using the womb as the alter.
People most CERTAINLY have the right to refuse being involved in murder. Trump is absolutely correct in this. It does not limit anything.....youll always find someone else with no moral compass willing to commit murder for you.
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Steve
Aren't you glad we live in a country where we both can have our opinions and choices and neither of us be punished for it
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Professor
Actually, we do get punished for it. This is why we fight back.
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Karl Bergman
It is your religious belief that abortion is murder based I expect because you believe that life starts at conception. I believe that life starts when the first breath is drawn, so abortion is not murder, but a medical procedure. I could say that I also believe that life is sacred so believe that everyone should be entitled to adequate health care for free in order to preserve it. So why is it that it is OK for the government to force your belief about abortion on everyone but it is not OK for the government to force my belief on healthcare on everyone. Why should your religious belief be enshrined in law and mine not? That is why the Constitution prohibits the government from enacting laws that place one religious belief over others.
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The Doctor
hey look chucky the fact you need to insult and attack others by declaring your view the moral one shows just how much you fail to live by the message of the christian messiah. Judge not lest ye be judged. Well since your judging I may now judge you and I find you guilty of a lack of compassion or any semblance of mortality. You are clearly an arrogant woman hating and likely abusing psychopath who belongs locked away from women
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Amber
If a doctor is going to let religion get in the way of his medical vows then he needs to resign. It's just that simple. Politics, education, medicine and religion should never mix. If a person cannot keep them separate they have no business in the medical, educational, or political fields.
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Steve
I agree Politics, education, medicine and religion should never mix but is it necessarily religion or more of a moral dilemma I guess i think he should have a choice is all I wouldn't want him operating on me anyway if he didn't want to LOL
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Tom B
Amber...i agree...peace...Tom
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Chuck
Actually, Doctors take a vow to protect life at all costs. Technically by hypocratic oath, "abortion doctors" shouldn't even be allowed to practice medicine.
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Ed
It seems pretty simple to me. Yes, a doctor DOES have the right to refuse to perform an abortion. I have no problem with that. But he/she needs to work in a job that will not ever require that to happen.
That is where the choice lies. The choice is not in deciding that you won't do it while still demanding to have the job that may require it. The choice is in choosing a job that does NOT require it.
You don't want to dispense medicines that MAY be used to induce an abortion but also have other applications? Don't work in a pharmacy. Find something else to do.
You don't want to treat someone with HIV? You have no business being a doctor at all, honestly.
Everyone has freedom of religion. Many people seem to want to apply it in the wrong way.
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Shanna
Exactly.
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Chuck
Problem here is that medical people who started out in one role, are being told to assist in other roles due to downsizing staff. So, YES they have the right to refuse involvement in baby murder, because its not the career they chose.
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Dennis E. Loucks
Well said.
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Chaplain Russ
If I was a doctor and asked to perform an abortion, I would have to decline. However I could direct them to specialist that is trained in that area of health care.
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Chris
If your professed religious beliefs interfere with you doing your sworn duty then it's time to find another job. Being a health care provider requires you to help those in need. Refusing to help someone because you don't like they way they live their life makes you hypocritical. It's also not Christian, but then neither are many who claim to be.
Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath to help. By injecting their "sincerely held religious beliefs" into the decision of whether or not to help someone, they're following a Hypocrite Oath. Sure, they're entitled to believe whatever they want. Refusing to help someone in need based on that...well, I know Jesus had something to say about that. Perhaps it's time they refresh themselves with the book they love to thump and wave around.
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Chuck
Actually, Doctors take a vow to protect life at all costs. Technically by hypocratic oath, “abortion doctors” shouldn’t even be allowed to practice medicine.
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Charles David Whitfield
@ Chuck, Doctors and Caregivers don't have to work in abortion clinic. If your faith goes against abortion don't work in abortion clinic, problem solved. If your faith goes against serving the LGBT community fine a new career that do not interfere with your faith, problem solved. The Free of Religion is nothing but a cover for bigots and racist to discriminate against others.
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Jim
Good point Chuck
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Karl Bergman
Your argument requires that everyone subscribe to your religious belief that life begins at conception. That is not a universal belief, and is not one that I hold. I believe that life begins at the first breath, therefore I do not see an issue with a health care provider performing an abortion.
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William Waugh
Clearly the first breath thing is outdated. Likely still clung to by folks that had trouble with science and math. Starting in the 4th grade. But alas, we still have to let these people vote.
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Karl Bergman
You must be a conservative christian, your arrogance shows very brightly. But thank you for making my point. You have a very narrow view point that you cling to as your religious belief. I have my belief also. You have the right to believe what you want as I do. The Constitution says that the government cannot establish one set of beliefs over another. Trump has done so, hence he has broken the oath he swore when he assumed the office of president.
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tom
There are plenty of doctors and nurses who will happily abort babies and engage in the other procedures noted in this article. Hence, care is not being denied. Besides, it is unethical for a doctor, nurse, counselor, therapist, etc to provide a service, serve a population, do a procedure they have not been trained for. What does you prefer? Have an abortion done by a doctor who believe it is morally wrong and has no training or experience in providing this service. Or have your abortion done by a doctor who enthusiastically will abort anything at any time and has considerable experience doing so.
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Bill Fox
Yes. A doctor can refuse service if he lacks the training and/or equipment for a specialty procedure. He can refuse service, if in his opinion, his efforts would complicate an emergency.
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Jim D.
Forget the pro-life - pro-choice argument. I look at it this way: If I'm having a medical procedure done, do I really want it performed by a doctor or nurse that forced to do it against their will, regardless of the reason? Oh, hell no! There are plenty of doctors and nurses that will do exactly what you want gladly. Go to one of them. No one likes to be forced to do something they don't want to do. And I don't believe it's that difficult to find a doctor that will perform these procedures. There have to be more doctors that will than there are those that won't.
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Father Fred
Medical personnel, or any person in business, should not be forced to provide goods or services which cross their beliefs. HOWEVER, when it comes to life and death, I think any reasonable medical person would perform the service and make piece with God later.
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Dennis E. Loucks
The Hippocratic oath may leave some room for interpretation. However, it should not include religious belief. Imposing our faith on others is the greater sin.
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Charles David Whitfield
The Trump Administration is filled with White Supremacy supporters. The Free of Religion is nothing but a cover for bigots and racist to discriminate against others. We the People should not fall prey to this CON. Our Heavenly Father is about loving the sinner and command us to love other as we would love ourselves. Our duty is not to judge no one but to give love to everyone. It's only Our Heavenly Father duty to judge and separate the Just from the Unjust.
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Professor
Reverend Mike Scheunemeyer's statement at the end of this article is misleading. He said Jesus healed. So pregnancy is something that needs to be healed? You would actually believe that Jesus would support abortion? Wow, the world is crazy.
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Richard Cornell
If your daughter gets rape and the rapist has a mind of an dim wit, a good Christian should feel sorry for the rapist and be over joy that their daughter will give birth to a child of God. You get to add another to your flock. Which side do you take?
I knew a Catholic girl that from the age of 12 she had sex to just to bear children for the Church. In her mid 30's some doctor neuter her. She sue him and in court the judge praise the doctor and curse the girl (woman) for what she did to society. Which side would you take?
Every rapist out there stands with those who are against a female choice to control her body. Some of you folks have to pick sides do you with those who denied women rights, like the rapist or do you stand your ground against those who seek to put women in their place. Which side do you take?
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Jim
I choose the side of personal responsibility. If a woman is raped then it is a different story. If she decides to have sex then in this day and age I think pretty much everyone knows how babies are made. At this point you have made a choice to have sex. If you don't used preventive measures there is a good chance of getting pregnant. In that case reap what you sew. Here's a question. If a woman has the freedom of choice to have or not have the baby why are the males held accountable for child support when they did not have a CHOICE?
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Christian
So, can a Doctor refuse to bake a gay wedding cake ?
Why do the working class get punished, while the privileged class get a free pass ?
Silly question, I know: But does President Trump mean a nurse can refuse caring for HIV patients because she views AIDS as 'God's Punishment' towards homosexuals?
We certainly hope this is Not the case!!!
If this is how President Trump truly feels, there exists a Christian Bakery in need of his Official Presidential Pardon, and he needs to clarify where people's civil rights end & personal rights begin.
EQUALITY UNDER THE LAW.
High School educated Bakers must be provided the same protections as University graduates.
Easy as Cake.
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Christian
So can a Doctor refuse to bake a gay wedding cake ? or a nurse refuse to help an HIV patient just because she thinks AIDS is "God's Wrath?"
Could the POTUS please publish his clear and detailed policy ?
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Chuck
Heres a story about abortion that happened early in my life, that really left an impression on me, so I thought I'd share it.
My grandmother worked for the Arch Diocese of New York when I was a kid. Her job was to find girls that were contemplating abortion, and show them another option. The option was to stay in a residence that was as nice as a hotel, be taken care of all through pregnancy, connect with foster parents and be given a sizable amount of money at the end.
Well..... the Liberals used to attack my grandmother viciously! Even knowing that the girls problem would be resolved, and the child would have a good home, they didn't care..... they WANTED the girl to have an abortion. They were even more angry that the unborn child would go to a Christian family.
And THAT is when I realized what the real end game here is. The Pro-Choice movement has not a God Damn thing to do with rights or women's health. It is a stone cold operation to get rid of first minorities (75 million black babies aborted and counting), and to get rid of people they saw as opposed to their batshit crazy evil nonsense...like Christians, family oriented people etc.
And as I got older, I did more research only to find that was the truth. You need only look at the founder of Planned Parenthood and those she associated with, to know that.
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The Doctor
Actually its been shown that the act of giving a child up for adoption rather then having an abortion often leads to life long depression. Ending the pregnancy is much better for the woman's long term mental health.
I have my own personal connection my aunt was forced to have birth and give it up for adoption through such a system as you describe. She ended up self destructing on drugs and alcohol and often voiced regret about both having the baby and having to give it up.
So please get over your insane idea that there is some conspiracy afoot. Though I am sure you local store loves how much tin foil you must go through.
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Toniwenz
If ejaculation was limited to only procreation, there wouldn't be an issue. I like how everyone is so free to jump on the woman when she makes eggs every day which are potential lives too but they don't matter. It's only when he comes along to spill his seeds, thus men's seeds are precious why do they get to spill them where ever they like? If you are anti-choice, shouldn't the man be the one regulated?
Joseph...the Trump position is anti-American...religions should have absolutely nothing to do with health care...if a medical care-giver tries to decide who to treat, the care-giver should be fired...Tom
Don’t misconstrue “women’s health care” with killing unborn children.
I suppose you can justify that thought by a bible passage? The bible not only condones abortion but gives clear instructions as to how and why.
Please direct me to that passage. Thank You
For those who never actually studied the bible: Numbers (5:11-31) (and MANY more)
That was only in very particular circumstances
Actually no it doesn’t ! The fact is Jesus said plainly what you do unto the littlest of these you do unto me . He was saying when you show compassion and take care of a child you are honoring him ,but that to abuse a child is the same as to abuse him ! Aborting a child puts you the same as saying you aborted Jesus ! Anyone who can condone murdering a child (should be hung in the City square )and yes a fetus is a child a living human being who also deserves life and should be protected by our constitution and who has the right to life . All you losers want to say it’s not a living human being so you can sleep better at night but if that’s the case why do doctors tell mothers to read and sing to the baby in the womb that it can hear and understand them .
Children breathe as when God breathed into Adam. The bible does reference cutting the babies out of pregnant women or did you forget that?
God works in mysterious ways. You don't know how many women have confressed with their mouths regret and have come to Jesus. With this talk we push women further out of God's reach. We are to lead them to God depite their sin. They deserve grace. If you want to know more google the Rachel project.
Randy your insulting behavior gives proof that your unworthy of being a minister as a minister should put themselves above judging others. Your desire to do violence unto others proves you to be no christian in any sense of the word because real christians are 100% anti violence to any and all others no matter that others faith or race.
Do not dare to speak as if you understand the words of a man as peaceful as Jesus. Nor dare to speak of what doctors instruct while ignoring that any real doctor puts their understanding of science before archaic scripture.
At least 67% of humans do not follow the Christian mythology. You will not change that.
We don’t care the fact is our right is protected by the constitution and you have no right to demand we submit . You are free to see another professional for a service that isn’t medically required
The Constitution requires that the government not place one religion above others. By this act the government has violated the Constitution. Regardless of you opinion on abortion, birth control or other health care procedures, this is a strict violation of the Constitution, and those that made it and supported it should be removed from their positions in the government.
actually randy that right which protects freedom of religion is not nor was ever intended to allow anyone to ignore the common laws all are meant to adhere to. Nor to treat one religion as right over others. So yes you are expected to submit to the laws that are meant to maintain order among us all. Of course its pretty obvious from your various posts here your a mentally ill and potentially violent individual that thinks being a radical christian extremists isnt just as bad as a radical islamic jihadist. I hope the feds are keeping a close eye on your posting history.
That was only in very particular circumstances.
Val...respectfully, i am not misconstruing anything...abortion is simply a decision...if it is to have a negative impact, it will be reflected in the karma for the pregnant woman; it has nothing to do with man-made "religions", which fall short of enlightenment...and, as i have asked before, where are all the hypocrites who condemn abortion, but do not actively seek to adopt?...where?...peace...Tom
It is killing babies. Don't complicate it.
A clump of cells isn't "babies", even YOUR bible states that. (Life begins with the first breath).
Walter...respectfully, you are "complicating" it by sensationalizing it for effect..it is as I previously said...peace...Tom
walter do you not understand that many communities including christian ones practiced actual baby killing in the form of leaving babies to die due to exposure? Are you unaware a convent where nuns where raped by both germans and later russians during WWII in poland then left the babies born from the rapes to die to exposure and this drove many of those nuns to kill themselves from depression?
That is actual baby killing, practiced in the last century by christians. Medical procedures to end an undeveloped maybe baby is not even close to the same thing as you can not know the future and can not say with 100% certainty any woman will successfully carry a fetus to birth nor survive it.
A fetus is notan unborn child. If that was the case you would be able to get benefits for them and we can't. Because have your religious belief does not mean you are right???
Hey dumbass a fetus is an unborn child even if the government hasn’t figured it out want proof . It’s alive based on all science . It has human dna and hasn’t left it’s mothers womb .
If a fetus could live and breathe, it would not be in a womb.
A potential child is not the same as a successful birth. You can not know for certain that a woman will successfully carry a fetus to term. Until it is born its only a possibility and one that only the woman carrying it has a right to decide if that possible child is something she is ready to have.
The unborn depends upon its mother the same as a fireman or a diver might depend on a breathing apparatus. A patient might depend on intravenous feeding or heart massage for a time. That does not make them less alive. Jesus and John the Baptist squirmed in their mothers' wombs when Elizabeth and Mary met while pregnant. Regardless, at some point, we know they are alive in the womb. They have hearts which beat. They have brains. An amoeba is alive. So is a flea. If a spaceship brought back a salamander from another planet the scientific community would shit their collective pants with joy and call it life, but you insist those babies are not. Amazing what "facts" we choose to believe and which we choose to ignore.
Unborn children are only children/babies when they are viable outside of the womb. The Bible has nothing to do with it, nor is it the final word for many of us who are not Christians. The final word should be from the woman who is pregnant. Women are perfectly capable of judging whether an abortion is the right or wrong answer for themselves.
Jester dont put killing in the same league as a medical procedure. stick to being a source of comedy for your betters.
Saudi Arabia (a theocracy) has a similar department, the department of morals and decency. See a pattern yet? And we were worried about the Taliban?
Alan please tell me you are not the myopic. One exists to enforce sharia law. The other to protect people from government overreach. Good grief man!
How is creating a brand new government department (on the taxpayers dime) NOT "government overreach"?
So creating any “brand new government department on the tax payers dime” is government overreach ?
Alan, don't listen to thier bs. This makes D.C. that much closer to being a sistercity to the Vatican. So much for separation of church and state!
Separation between Church and State is a part of the Federalist papers not the constitution. If was referenced by Jefferson who was not a Christian...I do think he was a Deist though.
I do believe we should separate church and state matters.
Abortion, if it is voluntary, a doctor, aka another being being, should NOT have to be forced to stick a knife inside of a woman and cut up pieces of another living person, having to listen to it scream as your slaughtering it, and then having to look at the pieces of flesh you just tore to pieces just because she dousn't want to get on the pill! If it's an emergency D@C, yes, but if not, it's a choice, not a medical necessity, like cosmetic surgery, and it is UnAmerican to force another human being to do this procedure!
You are an idiot Trumps position is American . It’s called the first amendment. You have a right to practice your faith and to not be forced to do things that violate it .a medical professional has a right to refuse service if the request violates their faith and is not one that’s life threatening . Elective surgery isn’t a required medical procedure it’s something a patient just wants done and as such their wants don’t give them the right to demand others perform a surgery . Now if the operation is a critical care need ie is needed for medical ie life threatening reasons then no a doctor can’t refuse
Randy...i am sorry you must use expletives when you are frustrated and do not understand...our relationship with God is direct; it is not through any religion or person...try to meditate...peace...Tom
A doctor in America is only allowed to practice if licensed by the government. The government law says abortion is legal. The doctor's oath commits her/him/other to do no harm. Hypothetically, if a abortion is necessary to save a woman's life and a doctor is the only person available to save her life would the doctor refuse to perform the procedure or not? If the doctor would choose to perform it, then the doctor's no abortion stance is not defensible. If the doctor doesn't perform it, how can he justify letting the woman die? Would he risk losing his license and his livelihood? What do you think?
BTW antiabortion & the right to life is really only The Right To Birth' and after the birth the majority of activists don't have any interaction with the newborn. They don't care about food, shelter, education, or healthcare. In many cases The Right To Lifers don't mean a humane or productive life.
Youll never meet a religious doctor who would refuse to perform abortion to save the mother.
We are talking about forcing medical staff to perform drive-thru convenience murder abortion, that is the issue.
And forget the state........ Hypocratic Oath defines an oath to preserve life at all costs. Abortion doesn't even qualify under the oath as "medicine".
The law is not just about abortion. It covers all religious beliefs. For instance, some religions do not believe in receiving blood transfusions. If a person of that religion does not want to participate in giving a blood transfusion to a patient, they could refuse. For patients in small towns or rural locations going to another facility is not an option. Many people writing on this web are Christians, but there are other religions with other views. Think hard before we pass laws without thinking of the unintended consequences.
I agree. I was pregnant many years ago. I didn't realize I was pregnant until I was 3 months. 2 weeks later, I started bleeding. I went to the doctor and they said that I was miscarrying. There was literally everything BUT the baby. The fetus didn;t make it past 6 weeks. A week later, I started hemorrhaging. I went to the ER and they did an emergency D@C, but the doctor put it down as an abortion, so the insurance refused to pay for it. If the doctor refused to perform it, I would be dead...for nothing, since the baby wasn't there to begin with. As I wrote above, if it is an emergency and lives are at risk if you don't do it, as a medical professional, you should be required to do it. But if it is elective, and she simply doesn't want to have the baby, then leave the procedure up to a doctor who actually wants to do it. They would be more qualified anyways. You don't go to a gynocologist to get a nose job done, do you? Same with abortions.
When Obama Care reformed healthcare it was the beginning of government interferance
A Nurse also has freedom of religion and can opt out of the extracting of a fetus and find a job that meets her belief sysyem
Not if the government is involved.
As a nurse I thought you would like to know that we have always been able to not participate in a procedure like abortion. Most abortions are done outpt.
Refusing to treat a patient due to discrimination (ex HIV pt's or gay pts) is usually against the state practice act. There is that assumption that HIV=gay and nothing is so far from the truth.
I think our stance should be biblically based on what Jesus would have done. What would Jesus do in the case of the HIV pt?
You do you, since most of you aren't healthcare workers and we will do us. Caring for the sick, the disenfanchised, and the poor. We will treat the mentally ill and do what we can to make then whole despite our beliefs. We will follow science based evidence.
I Totally Agree! ! ! ! The Trump Administration is filled with White Supremacy supporters. The Free of Religion is nothing but a cover for bigots and racist to discriminate against others. We the People should not fall prey to this CON. Our Heavenly Father is about loving the sinner and command us to love other as we would love ourselves. Our duty is not to judge no one but to give love to everyone. It’s only Our Heavenly Father duty to judge and separate the Just from the Unjust.
In my experience, it is always the racists who accuses others of racism and you should know who the accuser really is.
I find it funny that you talk about not judging yet you call people in the trump administration white supremacy supporters and the freedom of religion nothing but a cover for bigots and racists to discriminate against others. Who's judging who
I would disagree with the anti American comment. Freedom of choice, if a woman decides to abort a healthy fetus simply because she does not want the baby then the doctor should have the freedom of choice not to perform the surgery. Simple. We have a tendency in this country to complicate things that are truly simple. Freedom of choice is totally American
All of these comments are a perfect example of why religion does not belong anywhere near politics and government policies. Just like the rest of society, we here, are just circling around our own smallness of spirit. You all argue like you're on Craigslist's Rants and Raves for crying out loud. You seem to argue in the name of other religions. The Bible, Koran, etc..... are flawed books of information designed to control the thoughts and actions of it's believers. We should not look to the same words and arguments in these books and then attempt a new interpretation. There won't be any. How could there be? Tom is a wise man. Now that Trump has opened the door, societal fragmentation is this area is inevitable. Whether Jew, Christian, Muslim, etc... each will continue to believe that their God's rules trump, (Pardon the pun), The laws of man. Extreme believers of all faiths seem to agree on that one point, which means they will continue to pull the center of society apart. Stop helping them! We're supposed to heal, and fill the emptiness of spirit that is destroying peace, everywhere and anywhere it may be. We should be brokers of peace, instead we show the same weakness' and are accomplishing nothing but the destruction of our own children's futures.
Daniel...thank you for your kind words...if everyone would treat everyone else from the direction of love and compassion, and not the divisive approaches of the "holier than thou" religions, we would have a better world...peace...Tom
But when you play both sides of the field, there is no peace. If the doctor doesn't believe in abortion and is forced to do it just because the woman doesn't want to keep a pregnancy, then being forced to take another human life would only cause distress for the doctor. If the doctor refuses, then the patient as no peace. There is also no peace for those who are against it, and no peace for those for it. Hense, the fight. This is a no-win situation. The best that can be achieved is a compromise in which abortion, unless emergency, is looked at it the same as elective surgery and they go to specific doctors to do the proceedure. But this would also require pro-lifer's to not interfere. Since we are an eccletic society that isn't governed by a particular belief system, then we must be somewhat flexible in order to obtain some measure of peace with one another, but full peace will never happen.
Daniel...thank you for your kind words, as well as your overview of the destruction wrought by religions...if everyone would deal with everyone else with love and kindness, people would not feel the need to abdicate their abilities to be compassionate, by having life filtered to them by religions to hide behind...religions create mob mentality, so people can avoid thinking and acting for themselves...to me, religions are akin to the alienation created by the Tower of Babel...peace...Tom