Prayers to Jesus at the 50-yard line, Christian invocations in front of school board and town hall meetings, banning LGBTQ books from public libraries… to advocates of secular government, it seems like the separation of church and state is thinner than ever before.
A slew of legal wins by Christian activists is bringing faith back into public life in a big way – a movement that has also spilled over into government. Now, some atheist and satanist activists are taking advantage of these recent rulings as well, hoping to inject their own faith – or lack thereof – into public life.
By Any Other Name...
Last month, the Supreme Court ruled that a public high school football coach in Washington state could pray to Jesus on the 50-yard line after games. He’d originally been told by school district officials that his post-game prayers – which his players often joined in on – could be seen as the school endorsing one faith over another. When he refused to stop, the school axed his job.
The Supreme Court ruled that this amounted to religious discrimination. When the legal decision was announced, many on social media speculated that the ruling might’ve been different if he were practicing any other faith than Christianity.
Well, we may soon find out.
Satanists Fight Back
Citing the recent Supreme Court ruling, an activist in Florida reached out to his alma-mater in Broward, as well as the school in Washington, about praying on the 50-yard line at local high school football games.
The only difference? He wants to pray to Satan, not Jesus.
Activist Chaz Stevens says it's only fair that if you can pray to one religious figure, you should be able to pray to any of them.
"This all started when the U.S. Supreme Court, aka the 'American Taliban,' sided in favor of a high school coach in Bremerton, Washington, and now he is allowed to give his prayer after the game,” explains Stevens. Still, he knows this is a longshot. “I assume they’re going to tell me to kiss off,” Stevens said.
If the name sounds familiar, it’s because Stevens has been in the headlines before. Earlier this year, he tried to get the Bible banned from public school libraries in Florida.
Following a wave of bans (and burnings!) of books with LGBTQ content in public school libraries all over the country, Florida passed a law banning any books with “pornographic” content from public schools. Stevens later used that new law to push for banning the Holy Bible from public school libraries as well.
His argument: there’s nothing more “pornographic” than rape, bestiality, and incest – all of which can be found in droves in the Old Testament.
Stevens has yet to hear back.
To Pray or Not to Pray
It's not just Stevens; other activists seem to be taking up the fight. From hearings at public schools to government meetings, atheists and Satanists are making their faith heard.
In 2019, for example, a woman in Alaska petitioned the Kenai Peninsula Borough for her right to open a government meeting with a prayer hailing Satan. The borough, which had previously denied Jews, atheists, and Satanists their right to pray ahead of government meetings, was forced to let anyone offer invocations regardless of faith, per the Alaska Supreme Court.
So, a Satanist did. The calls to hail Satan prompted walkouts from a dozen government employees, and drew about 40 protesters.
Satan or Silence
It’s all part of what some activists call the "Satan or Silence" approach.
The idea is to force public officials to choose between listening to "hail Satan" at council meetings, and dropping public prayer at the meetings altogether.
Often, the easiest option – and the one that avoids potential lawsuits – is to simply omit all prayers from the proceedings.
What is your reaction?
131 comments
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Dave J
Why yes, Kelly. There were thousands upon thousands of gods, many of which were invented prior to yours, but of course, they are all silly fabrications. Yours is the one true god. And everyone whould worship your god.
Yeah, that doesn't seem right.
And you have evidence of the correctness of your stance? No, you can't use the bible, that's circular reasoning. No, you can't use personal feelings that god is with you, that's not verifiable evidence.
So we are still waiting for proof of your correctness. And waiting. And waiting...
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Kelly Manning
I don't care what you believe. I will ALWAYS stand up for Jesus. I stand by what I said regardless of who comes against it. You can't consider yourself religious if you don't believe in Jesus. No Grey area here. You can condemn it or try to mold it to whatever you choose but the Bible's words stand on their own. Nothing anyone says can change that. You can accept and try to normalize homosexuality, abortion, or any other sin but it won't change what the Bible tells us. That's how it is. If you don't walk in the light, you walk in the darkness. You can try to change it with "wokeness" but God's word isn't going to change. It is what it is and true believers know the truth so make up whatever suits you. Everyone will bow and profess Jesus as God. EVERYONE. Regardless how you spin the narrative God wins.
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Donald J Rothschild Jr
Kelly why are you here? The ULC respects ALL faiths and/or belief systems (or lack thereof). Your comments are totally the opposite of what the ULC stands for. You are a disgusting, self centered, egotistical fraud. If you truly believe in Jesus and all he supposedly taught and stood for then you have spat in his face with your comments. They are the direct opposite of his teachings.
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David Cox
Everyone will come before God in Judgement. You will see then what the truth is. But all that Jesus did for you you spit in his face....he loved you enough to die for your sins...but you throw it away and there is consequences for every decision you make. Choose wisely before it is to late
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Rev. B
Yeah, yeah, we all heard the story. I read Lord of the Rings, too. It was better. There was a lot less denouncement for having a different imaginary friend than you.
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Paul Edward Nunis
The way you are spitting on Jesus' crystal clear words from Matthew, right now?
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Pastor George Day
@Donald J Rothschild Jr, Kelly made I-statements. On the other hand, you are name calling her. ULC stands for all faiths, yet within the context of Christianity. This is a universalist church, and if you are not informed on what that means, universalism is a trend within Christianity, begun with Quakerism, that believes all faiths lead to God if they are sincere. So, if you claim the right to respect your free speech (which should not include name calling), learn to respect Christianity and Kelly's right to express her beliefs.
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Lionheart
Your god had no problems killing children, due to his anger management issue with Pharaoh. Thank goodness there is no demonstrable evidence your genocidal, and infanticidal, god is real.
I wonder if the Jesus person you refer to was ever real? Why would anyone want to bow down to someone mentioned in a story book, some stories of which, were written by some people who didn’t know where the Sun went to at night? 🤷🏼
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John D. Partin
You don't accept any evidence at all that God even exists, but you accept just the word of Bible writers alone without any evidence that you would accept for that, either, that this God "who doesn't exist", according to you, carried out the genocide of children, due to "his anger against Pharaoh" and drowned people during the flood, and committed other crimes because it suits your purposes and prejudice against God and you don't need any evidence for what you just want to believe, anyway. How can a God who you say "doesn't even exist" do anything against anyone, except as Bible writers write him that way, which could be done to human beings, too, as the tabloids prove?!! That is the illogic and inconsistency of your "thinking"!! The universe is the evidence of God's existence, since even a car can't be made to drive itself by itself without being remote controlled or computer programmed, and the universe is infinitely bigger, but no smarter, than a car. What you can't get even a car to do here on Earth, you can forget all about the whole rest of the universe doing. So, there must be a Mind behind the universe making it run and function. That is just logic!
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John D. Partin
The disciples' being willing to die and being martyred for refusing to deny Christ also prove that he existed and resurrected from the dead after being crucified, since nobody would be willing to die or would be martyred for something that they knew to be a lie.
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Asa William Sprague, II
I'm just wondering, what scripture in the Bible states that abortion is a sin?
I'm not trying to start a fight, I am just genuinely curious.
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Kelly Manning
THOU SHALT NOT MURDER.
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Robert Edward Szekely
One must be a living person for it to be murder. You cannot murder the unborn.
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John Daly
That fake rule doesnt seem to bother democrats who support post birth abortion or abortion in the 9th month. All liars
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Rev. B
It's not a fake rule, it is a literal definition. If you're going to use the word "murder" you should know what it means.
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Lady Mutt Cat
Or war. War kills living beings.
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John D. Partin
A living person in the womb is still a living person and all of those who say that children in the womb "aren't living persons" were, at one time, living people in the womb, which, if their parents had had the same belief that they weren't living persons and so could be disposed of, wouldn't be here today! But they don't mind advocating and doing unto unborn children now what they wouldn't have wanted done to them when they were in the womb. That is a double standard. Everyone who isn't insane believes in the Golden Rule of doing unto others as you would have others do unto you because they don't want rapists, muggers, thieves, murderers or others or even vandals doing unto them what they wouldn't want done to them, which is believing in the Golden Rule, and so, following suit, shouldn't want abortion to be done to unborn children, which they wouldn't have wanted to be done to them.
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Rev. Kev
Well. Abortion isn't murder so I guess that leaves that reason out. Murder is a legal term for unlawful killing. And abortion is still legal in the U.S. and other nations. Even after Roe was overturned, it's still legal in the states that allow it. Even then, it's legal under federal law in those states for specific emergency needs.
People who attempt to use the Bible to ban abortion have no leg to stand on. The Bible has stories of God ordering the genocide of entire populations. Plus His own mass-smitings. That means putting pregnant women to the sword (or flood, or fire). No "unborn life is precious" to be had there. Then the book of Numbers details the test of bitter water, in which a priest can induce a miscarriage if the spouse suspects she cheated. Clearly, God has no issues with abortion or killing the unborn.
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John D. Partin
And murdering Jews and other people considered "not human beings" and "inferior vermin" by the Nazis was legal under their regime and murdering Christians and "enemies of the State" was legal under Stalin's purges and at other times in the former Soviet Union. Legal wasn't and isn't synonymous with moral or right, for them or us. Secondly, only people who have never been accused of doing or saying or thinking things that they didn't do or never had words put into their mouths (that is, nobody!) should believe everything that is attributed to God or put into God's mouth, following the Golden Rule of doing unto others only what they would want others to do unto them. When people can be lied about and those lies be believed by many people, even though those lies are contradicted by the accused, how much easier is it to lie about God, Who isn't going to go around to everyone correcting all the lies that are told about Him, since He is what He is and isn't made otherwise by those lies? Some Bible writers put their own words into God's mouth and ascribed their own feelings and desires to God, in order to "justify" and "sanctify" themselves, since God couldn't be saying "love your neighbor as yourself" and "do unto others as you would have others do unto you" and also saying "kill your neighbor and these other people and do unto them as you wouldn't want to have done to yourself", which is a contradiction. So, God didn't kill babies or drown people in floods or put people to the sword or burn them or order their tortures or deaths, but merely had those things attributed to Him and words put into His mouth.
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Pastor George Day
All scholars would agree that the Old Testament God instructs wars necessary to decrease violence. The whole process of the Old Testament towards the advent of Jesus is a de-escalation of violence, already present as a consequence of original sin, until the cross on Calvary. Jesus, who made himself the target of our violence, tells us to show the other cheek and forgive. It's an escalation into perfection.
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Amber Fry
Up until the last roughly 100 or so years... not decades or centuries but years, a person wasn't a person until it took it's first breath. When the bible was written and pieced together, a woman could abort without anyone giving it a second thought, not even the religious people of the time, for that very reason.
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John D. Partin
Anyone's being a person isn't decided by popular opinion, even the opinions of religious people or Bible writers, who have been known to put their own views above God's views and their words into His mouth, but by God's saying that they and all people are human beings and that "even if your mother should forget about you in the womb and not care about you, I will not forget about you". Right and wrong, truth and lies, can't be decided by popularity polls and human opinions because then everything that any people want to say is "right and true" gets accepted as "right and true" by them and everything that they want to say is "wrong and lies" is considered "wrong and lies" by them, which is confusion and madness and the Tower of Babel, instead of some higher basis and voice than just human beings deciding these matters. The Nazis and Communists are just two examples of people who have defined "right and wrong" and "truth and lies" to suit themselves, and we have seen what that has produced!!, and there are many more examples. What doesn't work for Nazis and Communists doesn't work for anybody else, either.
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John D. Partin
Can a woman forget her suckling child, that she should have no compassion on the son of her womb? Even these may forget, yet I will not forget you. Behold, I have graven you in the palms of my hands; your walls are continually before me. ---Isaiah 49:15-16. There is God's saying that He is against abortion and for the life of the unborn, for those here who asked where does the Bible speak against abortion. But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of stress. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, fierce, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding the form of religion but denying the power of it. Avoid such people. For among them are those who make their way into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and swayed by various impulses, who will listen to anybody and can never arrive at a knowledge of the truth. As Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of corrupt mind and counterfeit faith; but they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men. ---2 Timothy 3:1-9. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths. As for you, always be steady, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. ---2 Timothy 4:3-5. Women who listen to pro-choice people and end the lives of their own children are certainly examples of weak women, burdened with sins and swayed by various impulses and of people who are fierce, inhuman, haters of good, and unholy. Why should the unborn be killed just because they are inconveniences to some women and in women who don't care about them, instead of being given to other women who will care about them and being allowed to live? And if there aren't enough parents in adoption agencies to adopt them, go to loving childless parents outside of the agencies, since there are many couples who want children and will love them, but can't have them.
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Lionheart
Yes, thou shalt not murder…….unless you are a god. If you are a god you can drown people (men, women, and children), kill the first born, turn people to salt, direct people to kill others, mostly by stoning them to death, etc.
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Susan Colmenares
Then war and capital punishment are terrible sins
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Jean
You are certainly entitled to hold that opinion. I am not impressed by your fervor or your arrogant self-soothing. You still can't tell me what to do, think, say, believe or wear. You are not the boss of me. And you detract mightily from the message of "love thy neighbor" attributed to your sandal-wearing, Jewish brown man. Pray for yourself; my soul & faith is none of your officious business. Oh, that's right, you never offered to pray for me... wonder why???
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Kelly Manning
You sound like a spoiled child. Call it what you will but you can't change God's word. It stands on its own and regardless how people want to try to make it fit their narrative, it doesn't change. You can't call yourself religious if you don't abide by God's word. It is what it is. God tells me to get away from the scoffers and the ones that don't dwell in Him. You can love people and hate the sin. If you knew God's words, you'd know this. I detract? Nice of you to try the leftist agenda on flipping the narrative but I know exactly what my intentions are as does God. Your opinion doesn't matter. I don't offer to pray for people who don't hold God's words in high esteem. I will pray for you though as you've asked for prayers. I pray everyday that I'm found worthy of God Almighty. His opinion is the only opinion that matters. Racist that you refer to Jewish people as you do and then have the nerve to bring up, "Love thy neighbor ", so I definitely will pray for you that the blinders might be removed from your eyes. You can't pick and choose which parts of His word you choose to follow. His words are His words and No man will ever change that. Have a blessed day.
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Lionheart
So, your demonstrable evidence that your God is real is where? Correct me if I’m wrong (by giving demonstrable evidence) but is your belief structure purely based on words written in a book, much like those who believe the words written in The Book of Mormon. or the Quran, are also divinely written?
Just asking for a Mormon, and a Moslem friend of mine, who are equally devout, and indoctrinated as yourself, both believing their god is real, and yours isn’t. 🤷🏼
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Pastor George Day
@Lionheart, actually, it's the same God. Mormons call him Elohim, Muslims call him Allah, we call him Yahweh :-)
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Lionheart
Yes, thank you, George, they do call that deity by those names, but they each believe their version of it is the right one, giving them what they believe is the correct doctrine.
Thanks for your reply.🤗
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Jean
Blessed be, fellow human. We are not making progress toward anything like detente, so I wish you well, and may your god go with you. Save the prayers - I'm okay. And Jesus was both Jewish and brown-skinned - not racism, simple logic... don't know why that was offensive... oh well. Again, blessed be.
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Joseph E. Lane
So, Kelly, how does your opinion view the free will covenant? And the fact that God says it is only for him to judge? God has said "this is what I want you to do, this is what will happen if you don't, but you have free will to choose to do it or not". Obviously not a direct quote. The point is, God wants people to CHOOSE to love him and follow him. If someone is FORCED to follow him, they will be Christian in name only and not in heart. They will learn to hate God and resent his teachings because they could not choose. Hell would still be their fate. And people like you, far from saving souls, would have instead condemned them. How would God then judge you?
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Pastor George Day
@Joseph E. Lane, the irony is your lack of understanding of the biblical message. Gal 5:1 encourages us to remain free after having been delivered of sin. Sin has an addictive aspect that makes us slaves. We only find freedom in God, the only one who is able to fill that inner longing other things cannot fill.
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Asa William Sprague, II
Pastor George Day - Please explain how Gal 5:1 indicates Joseph E. Lane has a lack of understanding of the biblical message?
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Jean
Blessed be, fellow human. We are not making progress toward anything like detente, so I wish you well, and may your god go with you. Save the prayers - I'm okay. And Jesus was both Jewish and brown-skinned - not racism, simple logic... don't know why that was offensive... oh well. Again, blessed be.
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Michael Chandler
I think some people need to take a good long look in the mirror. While it is claimed some are changing the narrative to fit, it appears that religion is ONLY available to those who believe in YOUR God and accept YOUR view point. The disrespect here is unbelievable in its depth and yet you call yourself a Christian. Ah well…. May YOUR God go with you and I’ll keep a kind thought for you In my heart.
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Robert Edward Szekely
So Kelly Manning, have you read the Old Testament in Ancient Hebrew and the New Testament in Koine Greek? If not, then you cannot even claim to know what you claim to be "God's word". Meanings are routinely lost in translation.
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Douglas W Challenger
Kelly, you seem to put a lot of importance on being "religious". Religion is a creation of man in an attempt to please and/or appease his chosen God. True spirituality is so much more and is at the heart of Christ's teaching.
From what I've read in the Bible, being religious was something Jesus preached and fought against. It wasn't something to aspire to, but something to be avoided. He was also open hearted to all who were sincere of heart in seeking him out.
While I acknowledge your right to your beliefs and opinions, your perspective is at odds with your espoused beliefs. You bring shame on your confessed faith. Because of that, you lack credibility.
Timing and delivery are amazing tools, you would do well to learn that. You catch more bees with honey. You're attracting flies. They're attracted to shit and death.
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Gary James Thomas Garrett
And I don't care what you believe.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Religion is like your privates, you can be proud of it, but keep it in your pants. Nobody wants you waiving either in their face.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
I think you mean religion is like a penis. Just because you have one, doesn't mean you need to be showing it to everyone and telling them to take a look at it.
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JaZe
ahem, have you watched the latest Thor movie?
his modesty attire was removed by Zeus and quite a few ladies fainted 😄
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Douglas Robert Spindler
I hope you know that movie has many references which poke and make fun at the Christian religion. Just one reason young people like it.
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Pastor George Day
@Douglas Robert Spindler, how hilarious! The overall message of the Bible is that God wants to marry humanity. Read Eph 5, or even better the Song of Songs! Not quite encouraging to 'keep it in the paints' LOL !
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Pastor George Day As per your request I read, Eph 5 and looked at the Song of Songs. Funny thing is with the Song of Songs I have found many interpretations of the meaning and they are all completely different.
After reading Eph 5 I have to ask why is it so many pastors, priests, bishops and ministers can't do what God say.
I invite you to read Ezekiel 23:20 and contrast that with Eph 5. Don't you think this is a God who is indecisive? As a Christian do you follow Ezekiel 23:20 or Eph 5? Care to explain to me what God is saying in Ezekiel 23:20?-
Pastor George Day
Douglas Robert Spindler, the answer you look for is in the book of Hosea :-)
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Krystina S.
"We are all children of the same universe." This is the motto of the organization to which you belong, from which you presumably received your bona fides as a minister. Soooo. How hypocritical that some of an Evangelical sect of one religion (Christianity) force their beliefs on others HERE. Demand that all others bow to their version of their religion HERE. Support their idea of a religious state HERE while condemning all other religious states. SMDH. The United States of America is NOT a religious state. We are NOT a Taliban. Separation of Church and State is written into our foundational documents, written by people of different sects and even beliefs- and NO belief. Prayer Warrior""-- yes I get that you weaponize Prayer to intimidate and bring people into line. SHAME ON YOU.
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Anisahoni
The right to be a believer or non believer in Christo Fascism, or any other religious tradition is a human right. We are once again experiencing those who wish to force their beliefs on the rest of us which is damaging. When these folks talk about prayers to be included in schools, I always ask, Whose prayers? Can my child burn our sacred sage and sweet grass in school while in prayer? Can she bring her drum and rattles in prayer? Nope. I am glad that Satanists have brought forward their views in the face of other's hypocrisy. Prayer is private. It's best to keep one's religious/spiritual practice to oneself or in a sacred space.
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Pastor George Day
@Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, how about the Great Commission?
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Patrick Alois deHertogh
My view religion is just like masterbation. Keep at between you and yourself. Kneeling on the 50 yard line is kinda showy. You can kneel where you sit. Amen.
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J. Anderson
history is rife with examples of 'true believers' burning those who they've decided are not at the stake FOR THEIR OWN GOOD. Believe what you want, but don't confuse the presence of a Supreme Being in your life with assuming that mantle for yourself...
may we all find a better day.
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Thomas R King
Sadly, I'm sort of expecting a live fire shoot-out at the 50 yard line between different Christian cults, each trying to impress their imaginary sky-god with how faithful they are. Think it won't happen? You have a better view of humanity than I do.
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Rev Ned
I feel sorry for the families who feel that their children are so weak minded that they will become gay by reading one or two books with LGBTQ characters. LGBTQ kids must be a lot stronger mentally because, despite being bombarded with straight characters in literature, they remain gay. Could it be that Christianity weakens ones mental ability? Just asking.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
"Could it be that Christianity weakens ones mental ability? Just asking." It most certainly does. Christians believe someone else, God is in control of their life and destiny. God, not they, are making decisions which affect their lives. Hence the phrase, "Thank God". If you are without God, they you and only you are in control of YOUR life. (Unless you are under the influence of drugs.)
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Pastor George Day
@Douglas Robert Spindler, Christianity promotes free will. Again: WRONG! Beeep!
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Pastor George Day George how does Christianity "promote" or not "promote" free will?
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Pastor George Day
Douglas Robert Spindler, Adam and Eve had free will. The thief on the cross who converted at the last minute had free will. The whole Scripture shows man has free will.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Pastor George Day The only reason Adam and Eve had freewill because WE say they did. If one is on the cross, don't you think they were not making a free choice and were heavily influenced? Do you think the people Torquemada was torturing during the Spanish Inquisition had freewill or did Torquemada's torture techniques overcome their freewill?
There are many plants and drugs the God has given to us which will overcome any freewill you think you have. So do many diseases.
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Chris
The bible such people claim to follow actually says Jesus condemned public prayer. He said to pray in private, not out in the streets like hypocrites. Just shows how little they care what their book really says, so long as they get to violate my rights to Freedom of Religion. Since I have my own sincerely held religious beliefs that don't include listening to some git spouting off in the middle of the field, that's a violation of my rights.
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John D. Partin
Jesus told people not to be pray in public, if the purpose of their praying was just to be seen by men and put on a show of being "righteous" and "holy", like the hypocrites and Pharisees, but there is also praying in public which is done just because people feel like praying and don't want to wait until they get back home, and not to be seen by men and doesn't care about anyone's seeing them pray, and the two types of public praying shouldn't be indiscriminately lumped together. Jesus Himself prayed the Lord's Prayer and other prayers in public and so wasn't against all public praying, anymore than He was against all repetition in prayer, such as in the Rosary, though he condemned it for those who thought that they would be heard for their much speaking. Distinctions here have to be made. Those who want to kneel on a football field or anywhere else and pray shouldn't have to refrain from doing so just because it offends you because, then, you are interfering with their religious freedom and imposing on them. Besides, you do many things that offend them and impose on them, too.
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Asa William Sprague, II
I have just two questions:
1) Are you willing to share the religous freedom to pray wherever and whenever one feels a spiritual desire to do so with other religions?
2) Are you saying that a person who suddenly receives a heartfelt desire to pray for something should stop in the middle of a busy freeway so they can pray?
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Wilberta M. Berry
When the Disciples asked Jesus what was the best way to pray. Jesus told them in a quite place ALONE. Jesus frowned on public displays of worship. It seems people profess to be Christians but no one reads the Book🤔
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Paul Edward Nunis
On the title question, that 'push back' is futile... the Supreme Court just made it explicity clear that only the traditional majority moral/religious dogma of the 1600/1700s endows equal rights.
Additionally, Thomas called for reversing milestone civil rights rulings that were based on substantive due process. And note that things infamous decisions like Dred Scott, Plessey, and Korematsu... were never actually officially struck down by the Court, they were only assumed to be obsolete. Now the verbage is in place to bring them screaming back like zombies wreaking havoc on freedom. The only check/balance left is nebulous wording about 'good behavior', and a Congress already poised to vote down protecting inter-racial and other minority marriages. Reality checks are often unwelcome, but it's that time. Good intentions, wishful thinking, and head in the sand prayers just might not be enough.
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Magistar Mormaer MacLean
The right to religious belief is a fundamental tenet of Human Rights.
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Herbert Moore
Perhaps, but inflicting that belief on others isn't.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Depends who and where you are. Religion is forced on children and is can be forced upon you. Just look at what Catholics and Mormons do to non-believers.
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Susan Colmenares
What do they do? I’m not aware of their doing anything to non-believers. However, Catholics impose craziness about birth control and abortion on their adherents while the Mormons make them wear ugly underwear.
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Rev. MichaelRS
First off let me say that I agree thatcreligious observance, such as prayer, should not be part of a government function.
But also let's not be silly and pretend that there's no difference in the basic principals or philosophy in praying to God/Jesus/Allah or the like versus praying to Satan.
Nor is the Bible equivalent to secular books actively supporting or promoting a given agenda with a covert or overt sexual theme.
I have a feeling that this activism will backfire. Not only will it stiffen the resolve of people of faith, not simply limited to Christians, I also believe it will awaken a dormant spirituality in a number of others who's faith, until now, has been tepid.
Even if those individuals do not become raging Evangelical Christians, even if they don't start living a more "pious" life and attending church or mosque or synagogue more regularly, even if prayers to Jesus or God or Allah does not become a regular part of their routine, they're not going to be happy with this and it will probably push them to more conservative attitudes (even more than they previously had) on the subject...and they will vote accordingly.
The other thing it's going to do is prove the point of those that say that evil is in the world (orchestrated and controlled by whatever one would like to call those evil or dark forces) actively working against the good and people of faith and they will just be reinvigorated to fight all that much harder against it.
But you know what I wonder? I wonder why these activists do not go other communities of faith and try this? Because you know there are various smaller local government entities that have a slightly different tinge to them than Christianity.
Is it because they know if they do it with Christians the Christians will merely SAY that the activist are going to hell. But if they tried it in certain other communities of faith some members of those communities might actually try to personally send them to hell?
I don't know the answer to that. I'm just a guy asking questions.
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Omar Traquilino Fernandez
Every one is responsable for what they choose to do with their believes. At the end we all will have the spirit to part our physical body and then each of us will find out what is the truth about etefnity. I chose to do good be integral and ask the creator if there is one to guide me n give me the capcity to be humble and wisdom. I love every one ,but will not let any one to bully any one. Live ad if you knew the truth.
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William Lee Hornstein
Author Douglas Murray (gay atheist) in "The Strange Death of Europe" said that The Christian church was like a glue holding Western Civilization together. Well, as belief and church attendance waned, families died off except Muslim families, and things are a mess. I hear that the Orthodox church in Russia is gaining.
I am in support of Christian Conservatives. They run things much better. Can't have a Starbucks in a Blue city anymore as 16 are closing for safety concerns.
Well--that's my comment. Best wishes to all!
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Nicholas J Page
Is there any proof that Satan exists Jesus was resurrected and there has been proof.Another thing Jesus wrote the Bible What does Satan has to prove himself. No miracles and no Disciples.
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Asa William Sprague, II
The Bible says Satan exists.
And since you believe that Jesus wrote the Bible, you are basically calling Jesus a liar.
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Robert Edward Szekely
In the original Hebrew, "satan" is not a proper noun, but a description - it means "adversary". God created his own contrarian among all the angels--a freethinker who would not be afraid to contradict his Creator if he disagreed with Him. The other angels could only praise God. Satan does not only refer to God's contrarian, there are other "satans" (adversaries) in the Bible. To blame "The Satan" as the source of all evil in the world is a theistic dualism that was believed to have originated with Persian Zoroastrianism with Ahura Mazda (God) and Angra Mainyu (Devil), prior to the Abrahamic monotheisms.
So if God created his opposer, His contrarian to give him a point of view unlike His own, consisting of the very antithesis to His Divine thesis, then God is essentially responsible for what His opposer does, having knowingly created "The Satan" with such a nature. This makes God equally responsible for the existence of good and evil in equal measure, as ultimately, He brought "evil" (if we equate the concept as being synonymous with "The Satan" or "The Devil") into the universe, just as He brought good into the universe.
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Paul Edward Nunis
Puny god that can't control its own minion.
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Pastor George Day
@Robert Edward Szekely, what you describe is Albigensianism, aka Catharism. The very concept of evil as an entity is wrong. God is eternal good. Evil is the choice contrary to pursuing God. Evil is, in other words, unfulfilled or disordered good. As for Santan, the actual meaning is 'accuser.' His original name was Lucifer, as stated in Ezekiel. He and other angels were given free will, just like humans. They chose to rebel against God. We read this in Revelation. Because of the nature of their being part of eternity (outside time), their decision is irrevocable. We humans have the opportunity to repent.
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Lionheart
So…Jesus was real then? Got any demonstrable evidence of that?
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Pastor George Day
I wonder what our discussions would be like if, instead of name calling each other, we tried to learn something from those who think differently. It's called listen and share your views respectfully. Does anyone here mediate with Desiderata, the link at the end of each thread, or read the guidelines for discussion, also at the end of the thread?
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Jean
Excellent suggestion, Pastor Day. It is too easy to get distracted by ongoing snipe-fests like this. We are, after all, in this together; forgive my short temper & unloving responses in this conversation. I truly am trying to do better - I've proven I can argue, now I need to prove I can give a soft answer... thanks for the reminder!
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Pastor George Day
Jean, we are all fighting our big ego. Thank you for your kind response :-)
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Kelly Manning
This is the problem with this world today. They removed God from everywhere. You can't consider yourself religious and sit idly by and conform to every religion, homosexuality, abortion, etc. As for me, I'll keep speaking up for the one and only true God, Jesus Christ. I know God's word and I will abide by it and keep it Holy. Regardless of how many come against what I say, I'll stand firm in His word. He says No other God's before Him. I don't see any other God except Jesus Christ. He is the only way. God doesn't give His people fear. He gives them righteousness and strength. If you're scared to speak up, He's obviously not dwelling in you and you should do some soul searching. People think that there's so many Christians but how many speak up for God? Lukewarm Christians. How do you expect God to save you when you do nothing? Including reading His word? If you read His word, you know the answer. It's a good thing that God is gracious because if it was me, I'd give these people exactly what they give the Lord Almighty. Nothing. Better check your ethics. Time is short. Jesus is returning soon. Get it together.
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taycomama
I'm a Jew. Jesus is NOT my God. He is what God meant when he said "Thou shalt have no other gods" 1,200 years before Jesus was born. Every time I'm forced to join in Christian prayers, I'm being forced to violate this commandment. Just sitting in the audience, I'm really not participating, but the same can't be said for those players who feel pressure to join in and please their coach.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
And the same goes for agnostics. And atheists. The openly delusional praying to a Bronze Age deity and my being expected to take such nonsense seriously is an affront to the human intellect.
Have your beliefs. Keep your beliefs….to yourself. They’re akin to a sexual fetish involving horse feces, baby urine, sand from a playground frequented by feral cats, an adult diaper, a roll of duct tape and a wooden spoon. Knock yourself out. Just shower, brush your teeth and don’t even consider discussing it with others, much less start an enrollment effort..
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Pastor George Day
@taycomama, have come across Messianic Jews?
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James Riggle-Johnson
Please show me one word God wrote in the bible, just one. In theory he wrote the 10 comandments but even that is suspect, but let us say he did. What other word did God write? Not one… it was written by man, and man alone. It was written in an effort to control the populace. To ensure the masses obeyed the law and to scare them if they didn’t. You have no proof… just faith. I am glad you have that faith but don’t force it on others.
Our laws are changing and leading us a dangerous path. One where if you disagree with someone, or don’t live as they want you to live, then you are damned. It’s what they intend to do with those that they feel are damned that I worry about. BTW, I do believe in God but I don’t think everyone who does not share my beliefs are going to hell. I think if you are good, live a good life, try to help those who need it that you will be saved in the end. All of these people who presume to condemn the rest of us will be the ones who are ultimately punished. Amen, sister.
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Pastor George Day
@James C Riggle, the Ten Commandments were written directly with God's finger. The rest of the Bible was inspired - a bit like an employer dictating a letter to an employee.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Jesus is returning soon? That’s been the chant for over 2000 years. Clue in.
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Pastor George Day
@Dr. Zerpersande, our perception of time is limited to our experience. Soon can mean 2000 years, because for God one day is like 1000 years. We are talking about eternity, beyond our concept of time.
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Robert Edward Szekely
Kelly Manning, that sounds like a pretty self-righteous and arrogant stance....just like one of the Biblical hypocrites Jesus spoke of...so instead of talking about Jesus, why don't you try acting like Jesus, instead? I get the impression you may be one of those he spoke of when he said 'although you may call my name, I will say I never knew thee...'
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Kelly Manning
You can think what you'd like. I'm not Jesus and I won't bend to the leftist agenda of trying to change God's word. It won't ever change. Arrogant? No. Godly? Yes. You can try to sway the narrative but you won't sway God's people.
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Robert Edward Szekely
Kelly Manning, Oh, by "leftist agenda" you mean the liberal agenda which eliminated slavery and gave women the vote? Actions in accordance with the very spirit Jesus would Himself have acted in if He were manifest on Earth today. I don't think that "God´s Word" even means what you think it means. And if I understand what you're telling me, that you're "Godly" but unwilling to emulate the example set by His Son? I see the two as inextricable for those who claim themselves to be Christians. The Bible--both OT and NT--had many authors, and not those commonly attributed, i.e., Luke, Paul, Mark, Moses: but rather comprised of many manuscripts copied by hand from Masoretic Texts, "Q", etc. The best known version (KJV) was translated from Latin Vulgate and Koine Greek, which means the KJV OT was a translation of a translation, having been written in Ancient Hebrew, i.e., Aramaic. The oft-cited opening of Genesis: "Let there be light" is an incorrect translation. In the original Hebrew it is a single word: "Bereshit" (Be). Let us also not forget that what was passed down through the generations was laboriously hand-copied by monastic scribes. You may think you know what constitutes "God's Word", but I seriously doubt that you actually do, when ready from translations of translation, and particularly if you're reading it literally. Also, "God's People" were the Israelite, not the Apostles of Jesus. But how the religion of Jesus (Judaism) became the religion about Jesus (Christianity) is the topic of many, many books. From your words I cannot see how you could possibly have bound yourself to either the Judaic/Mosaic covenant or the Christian covenant of Jesus. You are quick to judge others, but have you no mirror by which to view yourself? It seems you need to read your Bible again, as you are so concerned with the mote in your neighbor's eye, that you fail to notice the beam in your own.
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Pastor George Day
@Robert Edward Szekely, your comment is misleading. To begin with, the KJV is the most reliable translation because it does take from the original language - that is why it is hard to understand, as it is a word-by-word translation, and some additional words to facilitate understanding are written in italic. As for the original texts, no one has them anymore. We only rely, as you say, on ancient manuscripts. It is incredibly astounding that the differences in copying are minor and do not affect the substantial meaning - you don't see this with the Quran, for instance, which is a well-known fact (there are several translations, where each translation changes the wording substantially, to the point that in some you find a praise to Satan but that is for another time). A good translation that deals with this is the New Living Translation. Christianity is not a religion, although it is listed or understood as such in common parlance. It is a kerygma, which in Greek means Good News (literally announcement of -). Judaism is a religion; The difference is in the context they were born. Paul extended the kerygma to the Gentiles, and the Council of Jerusalem held by the early apostles decided they were not required to join Judaism. This is in Acts 15. This means that the prophecies of the Old Testament were fulfilled where it says that the God of Israel would be worshipped by the Gentiles - this is fulfilled in Christianity. But the Bible also prophesizes the conversion of the Jews to the Messiah and the return of Israel to their appointed land, and today we see many Messianic Jews and the restoration of the Jewish nation. More to be shared, but time is limited.
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Lionheart
Oh…so does your god exist then? Which god is it? Would I be correct in saying it’s one of those gods that everyone says is the only real god, even though theirs might be different from yours?
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Jean
So again your statements beg the question: why are you here?? Wouldn't Bob Jones or Oral Roberts let you in?? You decry the very inclusivity that allowed you into this organization. We didn't come here to be evangelized. I've been to christian churches. That's why I'm here - you may believe whatever you choose, but you cannot shove it down my throat. I won't tell you your beliefs are wrong, but likewise you can't tell me mine are wrong. I don't care what your book says. Or rather, I don't care how you choose to interpret your book - the parts you choose to pay attention to... My deity is bigger than that. And they don't require your assistance. Do you see what your attitude of arrogant judgment and condemnation has wrought? I don't want to sit next to you on a subway, much less in your church! There's a big difference between exhortation and what you are engaging in. You are not exercising a gift of the holy spirit. One wonders if your husband, deacon, or pastor is aware of your activity here. (Because as a devout christian, you must needs be under the authority of a man - father, husband, deacon, brother, pastor...) Again I say, your fervor is moot, ineffective in bolstering your position.
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Pastor George Day
@Jean, I completely understand and affirm your sentiment. I have also been a victim of such Christian abuse. Were it not for this church, I wouldn't have received ordination. But I want you to know not all Christians are like that, and Jesus is over stands all! Don't let a bad attitude from us spoil your relationship with him. And I'm sorry we have hurt you in the past.
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Robert Gagnon
Jesus himself said he was not the only son of God. That everyone with faith the size of a mustard seed could move a mountain. Jesus studied the kabbalah. Do you know what that is, or it's origins? I suppose that gibberish some emit is actually speaking in tongues. Bible describes tongues as one speaker understood by every language. I enjoy the extreme example of the child's game of telephone. Just how second and third hand misinterpretations can be so distorted and then publicly pressed as if factual. If you are gonna post, please keep to the script.
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Pastor George Day
@Robert Gagnon, first of all, the Bible says Jesus was the one and only Son of God. This English phrase translates 'son in a unique way' (for lack of a better phrase). The same was said of Isaac in relation to Abraham, though he had another son: Ishmael. The kabbalah is repetitive prayer in terms of contemplative meditation on God's Word - a bit like the lectio divina or the rosary for Catholics. We evangelicals practice meditation through bible study, but I think we miss the very concept of the practice of the kabbalah (something that needs fixing, in my view). As for practicing faith the size of a mustard seed to move mountains, that refers to the simplicity of our trust in Jesus (trust = faith) just because Christianity isn't a religion but a relationship. The whole Bible says that God wants to marry humanity. Check it out!
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Rev. Kev
Kelly, I see a teeny, tiny issue with your OP. Anyone who lives in a multicultural society has to accept that other people have their own backgrounds and faith. Telling them they are wrong will get the same reaction from them as someone telling you that you are wrong. Put yourself in their shoes for a minute or two.
Also, you have a set of beliefs about God, Jesus, and the Bible. OK. So do a lot of other people. And they may not necessarily agree with all your views. That's why Christianity is divided into so many churches and denominations. There is no such thing as one, undivided faith. And it's quite apparent no one has managed to prove to everyone else that their version is the really really really right one.
You appear to have issues with things like homosexuality and abortion. OK. That's your right. But other Christians have no such issues. You can call them "lukewarm" as a way to demean or diminish them, but that doesn't necessarily make you right or them wrong.
As for speaking up, I tend to defer to the wisdom of St. Francis when he said to preach often, and use words only when necessary. Actions speak way louder than words. My personal position is that believers should act like they believe on a daily basis. Only God can judge the individual. Leave God on the judgement seat and just be kind and loving to others. Treat others as you wish to be treated. Love even your perceived enemy. You know. Just like Jesus taught. Let God sort out all the details.
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Daniel Gray
let him go ahead and do it, but he CANNOT encourage nor require anyone else to join him. NOR is he allowed a microphone.
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Daniel Ginther
You can pray to satan all you want, but I would not want to be around that or anyone who does that so do whatever you want if it makes you feel good but be careful what you wish for.
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John Daly
From what I have seen here, the vast majority of UL "ministers" in these forums are satanists. U work for the other side. U come on here and champion grooming of children (drag queen's having access to children). There is nothing more evil than that.
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Sarah Covert
Um, let's be honest here. There are hundreds of documented cases of Christian leaders abusing children- Catholic priests, those Hillsong degenerates, Mormons, I could go on and on. There are ZERO documented prosecutions of drag queens abusing kids. So you can stick the facts up your jumper you homophobe!
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Jean
How dare you judge me? You are ignorant about the matters of which you speak with such apparent authority. Drag queens grooming children??? I have encountered a number of sexual predators over the course of my life: NONE of them were drag queens, nor were they gay. They were white, heterosexual males. They were therapists, pastors, fathers... don't talk about things you don't know anything about. You do no one any favors, not the sexual predators, not the children; you only obscure reality & prevent people from being able to intervene on behalf of the targets of predation.
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Sharon Jeanne McHenry
anything is better than letting someone hail the enemy out loud. just stop everything. or give them 2 min of silance so they can quietly pray to whomever they want
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Susan Tracy
Satanists are behind planned parenthood, a for-profit murderous death cult. The blood from babies is being used so horribly vain people can inject themselves with it to remain youthful. This is no different than the Canaanites sacrificing children to Moloch and their women smearing themselves with the remains.
These eugenicists are a portal to demonic possession.
King Solomon summoned demons to help build the temple, yet people wonder why the temple was destroyed twice, as it will be destroyed again.
Christ incarnated and the 10 Commandments were given, simple enough for anyone to understand. Yet, the spells, curses, rituals, incantations, idol worship, black magic, deceit, murder, subversion and perversion continue. Leave these adults to their own fates.
The only issue are children. Anyone who spends considerable amounts of time trying to sever the connection between children and adults to their Creator does not mean well. The Bible is a good grounding in stability for children independent of any church, corporation, institution, entertainer, media or sports personality.
Focus on children as the mass-media groomers are doing. They are what count. The remnant will be small. Be blessed.
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Robert Edward Szekely
Susan Tracy, when you stated, "Satanists are behind planned parenthood, a for-profit murderous death cult. The blood from babies is being used so horribly vain people can inject themselves with it to remain youthful" from where exactly did you get this information, or did it just spring fully developed from your feverish imagination?
Maybe you should actually do some research before your start randomly libeling a traditionally unpopular group:
Here is the LaVeyan Church of Satan website URL: https://www.churchofsatan.com/.
Here's what they say: "Man—using his brain—invented all the Gods, doing so because many of our species cannot accept or control their personal egos, feeling compelled to conjure up one or a multiplicity of characters who can act without hindrance or guilt upon whims and desires. All Gods are thus externalized forms, magnified projections of the true nature of their creators, personifying aspects of the universe or personal temperaments which many of their followers find to be troubling. Worshipping any God is thus worshipping by proxy those who invented that God. Since the Satanist understands that all Gods are fiction, instead of bending a knee in worship to—or seeking friendship or unity with—such mythical entities, he places himself at the center of his own subjective universe as his own highest value. We Satanists are thus our own “Gods,” and as beneficent “deities” we can offer love to those who deserve it and deliver our wrath (within reasonable limits) upon those who seek to cause us—or that which we cherish—harm."
Here is The Satanic Temple website URL: https://thesatanictemple.com/. Here's what their website says:
"The Mission Of The Satanic Temple Is To Encourage Benevolence And Empathy, Reject Tyrannical Authority, Advocate Practical Common Sense, Oppose Injustice, And Undertake Noble Pursuits. We have publicly confronted hate groups, fought for the abolition of corporal punishment in public schools, applied for equal representation when religious installations are placed on public property, provided religious exemption and legal protection against laws that unscientifically restrict people's reproductive autonomy, exposed harmful pseudo-scientific practitioners in mental health care, organized clubs alongside other religious after-school clubs in schools besieged by proselytizing organizations, and engaged in other advocacy in accordance with our tenets."
Similar blood libels as you have levied against Satanists have also been historically hurled against both Jews and Catholics in the past.
Sadly, you are not even original.
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Paul Edward Nunis
But it's great fuel for the Irony Meter... since there actually is a so-called 'longevity serum' made from foetal tissue being sold to the gullible and wealthy - by former Cabinet Secretary and QAnon favorite Ben Carson.
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Pastor George Day
@Robert Edward Szekely, I would be weary of good wording. Anyone can present themselves as an angel of light.
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Pastor George Day
@Susan Tracy, you are right. Gehenna was where they worshipped and sacrificed children to Moloch, same as our abortion clinics. Exorcism is what is needed!
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Asa William Sprague, II
I would like to see what evidence supports your claim that doctors and nurses in abortion clinics are sacrificing children to Moloch.
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Pastor George Day
Asa William Sprague, II, Moloch was the God of the Canaanites to whom children were sacrificed in the Valley of Megiddo (aka known as Gehenna). Science proves the fetus is alive, we just need to prove when life begins. I embrace the idea that it begins at conception. That is all I have to say in response to your comment. God bless you :-)
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Kelly Manning
The Bible says that John leaped for joy in the womb. God gave you that child. You don't want it? Don't have sex unless you're married. That would be too much like right though....imagine that? You've been so indoctrinated that you can't see just like the Apostle Paul. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what is written. Man is digressing in intelligence. Must be that CCR. You don't follow God's Law, don't consider yourself religious or spiritual. Blind.
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Asa William Sprague, II
"Must be that CCR."
It's not clear which definition of CCR you are referring to. Do you mean:
Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions Center for Cancer Research California Code of Regulations Consumer Confidence Report Credence Clearwater Revival?
Seriously, there are over 100 different definitions for the abbbreviation CCR. So which CCR do you claim as resulting in a digressing intelligence in Man?
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Jean
Anyone ever find out what was meant by "CCR"? I might understand the comment better if I knew...
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Kelly Manning
You don't want to listen to God? Wait until the elitist are calling the shots...see if that suits you. As for me, I'll be with Jesus. Praise God.
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Jean
If you are so ready to be rid of us sinners, by all means, there's the door. You aren't winning any converts, convincing anyone with your brilliant arguments, or setting any example that any adult would want to follow. You said I sound like a spoiled child? I don't understand why anyone who despises us so much would want to spend so much time railing at us. There are so many holes in your reasoning, it looks like a sieve. Don't you have better things to do?? I am reminded of the little girl who keeps following the neighborhood kids around criticizing everything they do in spite of the fact that they completely ignore her... oh, wait, you're going to "testify" about this in your religious organization, aren't you?! Or does your cult call it "witnessing"? ...go be with Jesus, Kelly; surely if you repent, he'll forgive your fractious nature and judgmental rhetoric... Now I said I wasn't going to engage with you anymore, and here I am, doing it again. I fell for it again; forgive me, everyone, I'm trying to do better.
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Darian N Wilson
It's so sad to me that an organization that is meant to be nonsecular and open to everyone is still not a safe space.
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Asa William Sprague, II
I sure wish you had elaborated on that topic. I'd like to hear why you feel that way.
Regardless, here's a couple of things to consider:
1) atheists are also welcomed by this organization, so, technically, it's not a "nonsecular" organization;
2) if they kick out the people who make others feel like their beliefs are not safe to discuss, then those people would feel like it's not a safe space, and it could not be considred open to everyone.
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Pastor George Day
@Asa William Sprague, II, yes, but it can still be more respectful.
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Asa William Sprague, II
Yes, they could, but ULC does not and will not force them to.
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Richard Lee Cornell
That is where my religion likes to have fun and in the falls with Ween next month that fun can go to extremes. Like flying witches, foggy grounds and dark figures reaching from the earth. Bring the After Life to life is as fun as it gets. Oh! Mummy where is you? 2@.org.
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Johnnie Roberte Lambert
Thank you. Very well said. I am very tired of people trying to push their version of "Religion" on our government, our schools, our homes and anyone who doesn't believe the way they do. What happened to "Freedom of Religion" in this country? I agreee with the designation "American Taliban" for the Supreme Court.
Yes, we all have the right to believe what we believe. The problems arise when we start trying to dictate to others what they may or may not believe. A number of christian denominations and other religions want to tell everyone whose god is the "right" one. Predictions of an eternity in hell or some facsimile thereof are promised to those who persist in their "wrong" beliefs. Frankly, it's none of your business what I believe or don't believe, and vice versa. You are welcome to your beliefs, but not welcome to try to shove them down my throat. If you ask about my beliefs, I will be happy to share them with you, but I place no expectation of agreement on you. Likewise, I enjoy learning about others beliefs, but don't expect me to throw myself on your altars. Freedom. It is as fundamental a human right as breathing. I may not agree with your opinion or faith or unfaith, but I will fight to the death for your right to hold to it. I want you to respect me in the same way. I don't expect it, but I do want it. As always, imho.
Thank you on behalf of many !!!!
I second that
I second that
Well said.
Thank you, Jean.🤗. Very well said %💯
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Thats such crap. No one tries to tell u wat to believe. Wat brainwashed world do u live in. Evil people are trying to groom and steal your children. They dont care about wat church u go to. They just want to spread evil and degeneracy. That is wat u should be worrying about.
What on earth are you babbling about?
"No one tries to tell you what to believe"?! Izint that what you're doing?
I get the jist of what you are trying to say, but
1 poorly said
2 you are completely wrong
3 it sounds as though YOU already HAVE been brainwashed.